Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Sixteenth. Regular meeting of the San Ramon Planning Commission will call the order at 6PM. We do have a number of people in the audience who I think might be interested in speaking. And if you aren't aware, if you could grab a green card at the back, fill it out. There's two chances for public comment. There's the chance to speak on things not on the agenda. That's item four. And then item 11 dot one is the workshop on the project up next to club sports. So if I could ask you to grab the card, fill it out, drop it off at the city clerk when the time is when we get to that spot in the agenda, we'll work from that. So just give you a heads up.

That's the mechanics of the process. You know? If I could ask the recording secretary to conduct roll call, please.

Commissioner Kuznick? Here. Commissioner Kundula?

Here.

Commissioner Zane?

Here.

Vice chair Avila? Here. And chair Albert?

Here.

And tonight, we have a couple of scouts from troop nine zero five. If I could ask you to lead us in the pledge of allegiance tonight. Thank you.

To the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you. This is item four, public comment. At this time, members of the public may address the planning commission on any item that's not already on the agenda. If you would like to speak, fill out a speaker card, locate back the room, and submit it to the recording secretary. And as per policy, we will not be doing public comment via Zoom. So do we have any speaker cards for this item?

Not for this item.

Okay. Great. We're gonna go ahead and close public comment at this time. Okay. Item five, additions and revisions. We have none. Okay. Item six is the consent calendar. The consent calendar are things routine in nature, and we have item 6.1, the minutes of our mission meeting from August 19. Are there any questions or corrections? If not, if I could ask a motion to accept.

So I can propose a motion to accept the meeting minutes from from August 19.

Great. Thank you, Commissioner Candula. And I'll pop open the button if we have a second.

I can second that.

Mhmm. Yeah. Wait for the iPad to pop up. Tomorrow. There we go.

Great. Okay. Thank you all for voting on the motion. We need to accept the minutes. Okay.

Item seven is continued items after the close of the public hearing. There are none tonight. Item eight, continued items. There are none. Item nine, new items. There are none. Item 10, nonpublic hearing action items. There are none. And at this point, we're gonna have a short presentation on the Toll Brothers townhome project study session, 500 Bollinger Canyon Lane. And as a reminder to the commission as well as the members of the public, this is a study session for the applicant to share the project vision for us to provide initial feedback on this project to staff and the applicant.

The comments of the commission are not mind binding on the applicant, and the project may be and most likely will be modified as the result of comments received tonight or via email, and the project is still under review by the way of staff. We do have a presentation from Ryan Driscoll, and he's well, he made his way. Hi, Ryan.

Good evening, chair Alpert and planning commissioners. So as was mentioned, this is the item on the agenda for the Toll Brothers townhome project study session. I'm gonna give a brief introduction before the applicant gives a detailed overview of their project proposal. So the on 09/02/2025, the applicant submitted development applications for the proposed Toll Brothers townhome project. It's located on a 9.48 acre project site area that includes two parcels.

The project would demolish the existing tennis court facility and associated landscape at the club sport facility. It would construct 82 for sale single family sorry, multifamily townhome condominium units and also construct seven accessory dwelling units within the condominium units. There'll also be, parking and landscape provided on-site, and the project would subdivide the project site area with a vesting tent and a map for condominium purposes. So the study session, provides the applicant the opportunity to share their project vision with the planning commission and public early in the review process. It's also an opportunity for the, commission to solicit public comment and provide initial comments on the project prior to the applications being deemed complete.

So given that no formal actions will be taken by the planning commission at this meeting because, the project applications have not been deemed complete for formal processing, the project may still be amended to address technical application requirements and, review comments that would be received by staff during the application completeness review period, from internal city departments and outside agencies. So staff will continue to review the applications for completeness consistent with state law during the thirty day completeness review period. So I'll turn it over to the applicant, to give their presentation. We have, Rob Connolly from Toll Brothers. Yep.

Good evening, chair Albert, vice chair of Villa, and planning commissioners. My name, as Ryan said, is Rob Connolly with Toll Brothers. I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to present this evening. I'm here to provide information on Toll Brothers' recent application of 500 Bollinger Canyon Lane. As Ryan said, this project is in the early stages of the development application process.

Accordingly, our team is committed to working collaboratively with the city, neighboring HOA, and all interested parties throughout this planning effort. Our goal is to thoughtfully consider all feedback and work towards a project that reflects a balanced and responsible outcome for all stakeholders. For those of you unfamiliar with Toll Brothers, this slide offers a a few details about our company. Toll Brothers is an award winning Fortune 500 company and the nation's leading builder, of luxury homes. Founded in 1967, the company embraces an unwavering commitment to quality and customer service.

Toll Brothers has proudly been one of Fortune Magazine's world most admired companies for eleven years in a row. We've been named national builder of the year by Builder Magazine, and we are the first two time recipient of builder of the year from Professional Builder Magazine. Toll Brothers has a long standing history of working in San Ramon but also has a large presence throughout the Bay Area. This image shows some of Toll's footprint throughout the Bay, including a presence in towns and cities such as Milpitas, Pleasant Hill Pleasanton, San Ramon, Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, and Morgan Hill, just to name a few. Toll Brothers' most recent project here in San Ramon is called Twin Oaks.

It's a 162 unit community in the Faria Preserve master plan. This community consists of both single family detached units, as well as three story townhomes. The community opened in October 2021, and Toll is very excited to be nearing completion this fall, of October 2025. Now to the good stuff. The proposed project, 500 Bullardier Canyon Lane, is a 9.4 acre site on which Toll will offer 82 townhomes and seven ADUs.

The community will provide 207 on-site parking spaces, including a 164 garage spaces and 43 on-site surface parking spaces. The project proposes 15% below market rate units to provide 12 units in total, of which they will serve five very low income, one low income unit, and six moderate income household level households. The proposed architectural style is modern farmhouse, which blends the warmth and charm of traditional farmhouse design with clean lines and contemporary elements. Key features include gable roof lines, board and batten siding, a neutral color palette, along with thoughtful use of stucco, horizontal siding accents, and brick. The design team feels that this style offers a timeless, welcoming aesthetic that complements both rural and suburban settings while meeting modern expectations for design and functionality.

This is an example of the four elevations of a proposed building, designed in the modern farmhouse architectural style. Starting with the front elevation, you'll notice the signature gabled roof lines, large windows, and the use of board and batten siding that give the facade both vertical interest and a clean, timeless look. The front porch and modest overhangs added a welcoming character of the design. On the rear elevation, the design maintains consistency in material and form. We've incorporated windows where the where appropriate to enhance natural light and indoor outdoor connectivity, which are key aspects of the modern farmhouse aesthetic.

Moving to the status elevations, materials and detailing are carried throughout to ensure a cohesive, high quality appearance. Overall, the elevations reflect a balance of traditional farmhouse warmth with updated contemporary proportions and materials that fit well in a modern neighborhood context. There are four distinct floor plans, that will be be proposed, each thoughtfully designed to offer flexibility and meet a range of lifestyle needs. All floor all floor plans are three stories tall and feature a spacious side by side two car garage providing convenient parking and storage. Unit sizes vary from approximately 1,880 square feet to 2,200 square feet, offering options for different household sizes and preferences.

Each plan includes up to three or four bedrooms, accommodating families or individuals who may need extra space for an office or a guest room. Notably, Plan 4 stands out by offering a unique Ground floor accessory dwelling unit, also known as an ADU. This feature provides additional living space that can be used as a guest suite, rental unit, or multigenerational housing option, adding valuable flexibility for residents. Floor plans have been carefully arranged to maximize natural light, privacy, and functional flow, all while maintaining the cohesive modern farmhouse aesthetic reflected in the elevations. That concludes my presentation.

Thank you to the planning commissioner and all members of the community for your time and attention this evening. Our team truly appreciates the opportunity to present our vision and look forward to working together to create a thoughtful, well designed project that benefits all parties in the neighborhood and the community of San Ramon. Thank you.

Okay. So at this point, we will ask entertain questions from the commission to either staff or the applicant. And I think I'd like to start with just a couple of questions myself to staff. Ryan, you did mention that the application is not deemed complete, and you are also obtaining internal comments as well as external agency review. Could you explain a little bit what that means specifically? You know, what kinds of things do these folks look at, and where is it in the sort of the review process this early in the in the in the development phase?

Sure. When we receive project applications for proposed development such as this proposal, Our process is to, during during the initial thirty day review period completeness review period that the city has, we send out the project plans that are submitted, to other internal city departments and outside agencies, including, here in San Ramon, youth utility districts, such as East Bay MUD, Contra Costa Sanitary District, and San Ramon Valley Fire Protection District, school district. And we, request comments from the outside agencies in in internal departments. And so that process is still going on right now. We haven't received the comments yet.

But, during the thirty day review period, we'll we'll take those comments and, complete our review, for, technical requirements for application, submittal requirements. And then if we get any comments, specifically from those outside agencies, we'll also provide them to the applicant.

Great. Thank you. Thank you for that. And then tonight, you mentioned this is an early introduction of the project. Could you expand on what is it that you're hoping to hear from the public and from the staff as part of the public hearing?

Sure. Yeah. As I was mentioning earlier, it's an opportunity, the study session, to, get feedback from the planning commission and and public comment, early in the process before it's deemed complete, as I was just explaining. Once an application is deemed complete, then we would go through the formal public review process, which for a project such as this would typically include review with architecture review board at a public meeting, and then we'll come to the planning commission for your review.

Great. Thank you so much. And I'll turn it to my fellow commissioners if you have any clarifying questions for either staff or Toll Brothers.

No? Yeah.

Do you wanna go first? Sure. We sure can.

Thank you, chair, Alban. So good evening. Thanks for coming here and presenting. I know before I as you are here, Ryan, I have the first question for you. Just trying to understand the process. Does the application period start from the day that has been mailed September 2, or will that be a separate thirty day clock for deeming it to be complete?

The thirty day review period starts September 2. That's when they submit the applications that you're seeing here. So we have thirty days from that date.

And the next question corresponding is what are the approximate timelines that they are looking at for this project?

That'd probably be best for the applicant to explain, maybe their potential timelines for their their project.

That would be helpful. Thank

you for the question.

What is the approximate timeline, like, first day in the like, start off the ground to the end of just like how you, projected for the earlier project Twin Oaks, you said 10/21/2021 to October 2025. So what are the timelines that you are looking at?

It's a bit difficult, to answer just given the nature of of how long the approval process might take. I mean, depending on when our approvals get in place, I would say, in general, about give or a rough two years from the time that our discretionary approvals are approved to break ground.

Thank you.

Other questions for the applicant or for k. Yep. Betty? Hi,

Rob. I have some questions for you. My first one is related to whether or not you've had conversations with the neighboring HOA and the community, and if not, when you would anticipate to have those take place.

Our company has reached out on several occasions throughout the better portion of several months to a year, I believe. We are open to continuing those conversations. They have not happened as much recently, but we are more than willing to meet with the HOA and and continue to make sure that everybody is heard.

Okay. And are they pretty aware of, you know, what's here before us before they went ahead and received the public notice on the study session?

My understanding is that they

were Okay. So they are familiar with the project and

I believe so.

What it entails. Okay. And have they had any, like, input

Next.

Input regarding the overall design and so forth?

We made initial outreach to meet with the HOA several times. We have not been having as much discourse recently, so we have been moving forward with the the design accordingly. But we are more, again, more than happy to meet with the HOA and and look at the project and with our design team and try and make sure that we hear their their concerns.

Okay. My other question to you was regarding access onto the site. There's only that one access off the private road. Have you talked to the fire department regarding the two that they typically require Yeah. From residential?

Yes. We've we've been in conversation. Again, this project is in an early stages of a design, so what you see is not what's gonna be finalized. We will continue to kind of work with them. We will study it with our engineering team and and the city, of course, and make sure that we are compliant with with the fire standards.

Okay. And then my other question was related to the development footprint that you guys are proposing. It's kinda hard for me to tell. It looks like it has slightly expanded, but I'm curious to what's their existing right now in terms of the tennis courts and whether or not what you're proposing would enlarge that. And if so, like, by how much?

I I don't know the exact square footage is. I can say that I believe a nine and a half acre site, we are developing just about half of it. There's nine tennis courts there currently in a 1,500 square foot, call it, like, a wreck building. I'd have to get back to you on the exact dimensions of the development, though.

Yeah. I I think that would be pretty good to have that overlay as you continue to move the project forward since I know that people have concern regarding the impacts that it would have. I'm just curious to what's there right now versus what would be proposed.

Absolutely. That's great feedback. Thank you.

I have another question regarding so it it looks like between some of the four plexus, five plexus, six plus six plexus, there seems to be, like, two max five feet retaining walls. If I'm not sure. I could show you in the side plan, but it's kinda hard to tell. But, anyway, I was curious

presenting anymore. Sorry. I I flipped it over.

I'm curious to whether those would be Paseos or not so you could tell Like, in the middle.

Haven't fully so we we've designed for pedestrian, you know, access to be walking through. We haven't fully gotten into those details with our landscape architect. I can't exactly answer that just at this moment. Okay.

Yeah. And then in terms of the community amenities, as you are aware, we have the objective design guidelines. And I think in the report that we received, we had a letter from, I think, what is your attorney that's representing Toll Brothers? And within that, they said that one community amenity would be provided, but not two. Curious what the one that would be provided would be.

It's gonna be an overlook.

Okay.

Just on the top. I'm a little disoriented on north, south, east, west, but the top corner, there'll be an overlook and and gathering area for the residents.

I think we received that in our packet. I think it was, like, on the Southwest. Okay. And then my other question was you are proposing to go ahead and move forward with the 15% affordable housing, and you did go ahead and indicate that there are four different plan types in this community. Mhmm. Would the affordable housing be distributed evenly throughout Yes. All four plan types?

It would be distributed evenly throughout the entire community. Yes. So Okay. Yeah.

And then I know commissioner Kambula sort of touched on it, but it sounds like in terms of the total build out time, I'm, like, you know, kind of interested in how long it would take. It and if there would be different land development phases or if you would just do it all in one land development phase.

The project would be completed in one land development phase. Okay. My colleagues can speak to the overall duration better than I could, but it would be in one in one phase.

Do you have, like, an estimate for how long it would take from

I should have brought that with me, but I did not. I'm sorry. It's okay.

I did have a couple questions, but I'm not sure if your civil engineer is here. Probably not.

I don't believe so. Okay.

Question was, I saw that there's various, like, bioretention areas that are proposed, and there's one larger one, the bio basin that's to the South East. Yes. That's abutting that fourplex to the South there. I know that's an underground. That's what it's labeled, and none of the other bioretention areas are labeled as underground. Is there are you looking to go ahead and do, like, some sort of dual use, or what would you place over that bio area?

Have to defer to our civil engineer for that. Okay. They they that's their design, and I don't I don't wanna speak to it.

Yeah. I'm just thinking about you know, I know that you're trying to not have one of those one out of the two community amenities. So I'm just thinking, like, in the space and what you are proposing, if there would be some sort of potential for having that area become some sort of community amenity.

Yeah. We can absolutely look at that. Yeah.

Okay. Especially since I looked to see what the closest park was to this, and it was about a mile away or so. So it's just I'll provide my feedback later, but that was one of the things that I noted.

Yeah. We can absolutely study that.

Okay. I think the other questions are a little bit more specific to civil. Okay.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Mister Zhang?

Okay. Great. This is one of the nice things about going last is that everyone else second second and last. Everyone else gets, answers ask the questions you wanna ask. I I just have one short question for the applicant. I just wanna put a finer point on this. I know you already addressed it. You said you reached out to the HOAs and the neighbors. That's great. Did you get a chance to look at the comments that we received for this meeting? And, you know, is that something that you're willing to do moving forward?

We have received a letter, I believe, from the HOA's attorney.

Okay.

We are reviewing it internally with our legal counsel.

Okay. Great. Yeah. I I it would just be I think it's great for everyone to know if if you are taking a look at those letters and so, you know, we know that you're paying attention, but that's all for me. Thank you.

Awesome. I'll stay up here instead of going back.

So this might be a doubleheader here. So can we get a clarification on the the prospect of deeming this complete before we get to the CEQA analysis?

Think it's premature for staff to say whether it'd be be deemed complete or or incomplete at this point, since we haven't received all the comments.

Okay.

But a CEQA recommendation would be provided to a planning commission after it's deemed complete Okay. Project. So we're not to that point yet either.

Okay. So we just have to kind of wait Yeah.

Wait and see on

that one. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. Questions. Are we giving comments or just asking questions? Okay. I'm done. Okay. Yeah. No.

I had a couple other questions. Could you I think it's this is one to this one's deep deep. Okay. Could you describe the access to the property? Today, to get to the tennis courts, there's either steps or there's a little road. Could you it was hard to tell from the drawings that we got in the packet. Are you gonna preserve the walking path up to the property, or will it only be the road?

It would again, we will be continuing to study this to make sure that it it's compliant with, you know, all applicable codes and laws, but it would be approximately where that that walking path is.

Okay. And that would be for walking or driving or both?

It would be for you would be driving up.

Okay. Okay. And I think I saw as part of your parking plan, there would be parking places down below as well that would be part of the your calculation for meeting the parking standard.

By below, do you mean on Bolinger Canyon?

Yeah. No.

No. All guest parking will be within the red boundary that you can see on the screen here.

Okay. Okay. In the attorney letter, it commented on the design standards within San Ramon that our objective design standards says must comply with two or three balcony, awning, canopy, or landscape trellis. And it said that you're unable to meet two of the three, but only one. Can you say which one you were going to comply with on that?

Yeah.

Can I get back to

you on that?

Course. Of course. Course.

Course. No. No. That's okay. That's okay. I get it. You know? And then as I looked at the plans, there are a couple places that have some retaining walls. And one of them, I think it might have said it could be up to 20 feet tall. Have you is it is it too soon to comment on what the what the wall might look like or, you know, just concrete or is it naked concrete or is it something there? And is it only on the outside of this picture? Because I thought I saw in the in the drawing that there was some retaining wall inside the property that would have been on the, I think, the Northwest sort of corner there, the upper left of that screen, you know.

At the moment, the that rendering is the best kind of graphic that we have. We haven't done renderings of the other portions. The the wall aesthetic is the same from what you saw on the rendering to the other locations as well, I believe.

So the wall that was on the first picture was the outside of the project, I believe.

The project entrance.

Yes. And then I think there's another wall that was kinda looped around the top left hand corner there of the drawing, at least on the the schematics that we saw. I thought I saw a second wall there that, you know, it didn't say the height, but, you know, at some point, we will probably ask for some more renderings of what the wall might look like from

Absolutely. We can we can totally make sure that those are included in our our submittal. That's it.

Well, Hopefully.

Commissioner Ross or sorry. Albert, can I ask one more question? Thank you. Of course. You know, as we look at these renderings and we're surrounded by the hills there, who owns the property that this is gonna I I understand, you know, there's the townhomes below, but the the grassy area, who who is that parcel owner?

Well, we probably need to just given the nature of the conversations between the HOA and and the applicant at the moment, we should have our legal counsel kind of respond to that. We are developing everything everything that we are developing on is the applicant's property.

Correct. Okay. So there's a point to the question, which is as I'm looking at those hills and I was up there today, and you can see in some of your photographs, there are what we call social trails. People get up there. They walk the hills. They walk the same spot. It creates trails. Mhmm. That looks like a wildfire waiting to happen. And so that was the question, and and that was the thought question about in reference to who who is the owner of that property, in which you would have to really reach out.

And I would suspect we want to work some collaborative preventative measures. I we just recently heard some from the fire department about the wildfire situation, and this looks very problematic. But so that was the question of who owns that property. And if it's multiple owners, that might be a a challenge for you.

I will we will make sure that we do our homework and I'm sure we have done our homework, but I will come back with a a more informed response for you.

And then the other question is and it was difficult to see in your very oh, so small pictures. What what kind of fencing keeps the children in and the coyotes out, so to speak?

I don't know that we've studied that just yet.

There you go.

Okay.

Over the deer.

Okay. Okay. Before we open public comment, do we have any other questions at this point for either staff or the applicant? Okay. One, two.

Have you looked into what SQL path that you plan on?

We're still in the process of reviewing that right now.

Okay.

Yeah. Can I ask? Sure.

I know you have mentioned that you'll be going through based on the DBL. You'll be going through various waivers. You guys thought about it, or this is just something that you have put forth saying that

They've they've been curated from our design team of, you know, what things we needed to do to make sure that our project fits the objective design standards as best as possible, but also is afforded under state law with s p three thirty.

Vavers that are provided to the builder.

So oh. Yes. Okay. Alright. Thank you. Okay. Sure. So at this point, we're gonna open public comment. Again, if you wish to speak under public comment, fill out a green card at the back and give it to our recording secretary. And as a quick comment, we've received probably 15 to 20 emails, and everything that gets sent to the city is passed over to the commission.

And we have read all of the emails, And we do appreciate the time that everybody takes to share comments. We do we do actually read them and think about what you said. We've also received a copy from the HOA's attorney, so we have received that as well. And the planning commission has all read that. So we'll go ahead and open public comment. And how many speaker cards do we have?

And so far

Okay. Okay. We'll go ahead and start 11. That's okay. We might have a few more as they come in. So

call their names.

Yes.

Gonna list the people who have submitted written public comment for this meeting. Perfect. We received written public comment from Ariel Strauss, Hassan Adeel, Mihaela Dimitrova, Terry Martinez, Josephine Tan, Eric Archuleta, Ramoswami Subramanian, Noah Hausman, Dan Riley, Mary Navica, Cynthia Steven, and Pavani Reddy prior to this meeting, and a copy of all their written public comment was given to the planning commission and will be part of the public record.

Great. Thank you. So when we open up public comment, the recording secretary will call your name, and maybe we'll call two names so you can kinda get your your name ready. And there's three minutes per per public comment, and we do have quite a few. It is okay to not use the full three minutes. It's also okay if somebody has largely shared your concerns. You can, say your comments have been shared already, or you can, come up and, you know, you do get three minutes as part of the public process. So, you know, just keep that in mind, and we'll go ahead and get started. You know?

Alright. I have Steve Merritt first and then Jessica Hansen next.

Hey, Steve. There is a there is a timer that shows up, but you can't see it if you're looking at us. So I'll kinda wave when I get kinda close to the three minutes.

So Alright. Anyway last five seconds.

Yeah. No. No. We're not gonna catch we're not gonna panel

light Alrighty. Great.

My name is Steve Merritt. I live behind the hill of the proposed project on Sweetgale Drive, and I'm also a member of Club Sport. And, San Ramon already has a shortage of pickleball courts. With all the high density housing that's going in, it is further overloading the courts. Now with this project, it'll reduce pickleball capacity further straining pickleball playability.

And, what is the city or Toll Brothers going to do to increase pickleball capacity? So they're removing this capacity. Is Toll Brothers gonna pick up the tab for a new pickleball courts, or is the city gonna pick up the tab for the new pickleball courts? I know that the city has recently increased the sales tax. You got some increased revenue coming in from all the high density housing that's going in.

And I guess the last question is when will the new pickleball courts be put into service? Next bullet point is I live on Sweetgale Drive, which is just behind the hill of the proposed project. Is this going to remove the natural landscaping of the area? The last thing that people in this area wanna be looking at is some, some building structures versus the natural beauty of the area. Last bullet point is how will the builder address the land movement of the property?

There is land movement of the property. The pickleball courts have been paved over, which covered up all the cracks and the increasing movement of the land. And I guess that's all I have to say. Thank you very much.

Thank you for coming out tonight. Okay.

Jessica Hansen. And after that, it's Marion Curto.

Okay. That was mine. Hi. Sorry. I'm nervous, and I'm gonna try not to get emotional as well. I've lived in Sienna Hills for about seventeen years. I'm one of the homeowners that actually live in the the court area on the very corner, So we will be affected tremendously by the homes right there. I enjoy the open space. I watch coyotes. I watch four or five sets of owls, babies being born, and I know this will affect our wildlife and everything else.

I'm also concerned about the fire danger as well and the people and the more people being there and the more people walking through the hills and the safety along with the traffic. Already with tennis, it's crowded, but I can accept that. Having double the amount of cars and peoples and families, will definitely affect coming out even when I take my son, my 13 year old son, to school, the traffic is already backed up. So I can imagine with having a whole another development and more people how it will be affected. My car also parks up against right where the retaining wall and everything will be.

So the the dust and the construction and the bulldozing, I can't imagine with all the equipment they're gonna be bringing in the traffic and how dirty and messy it will be. The other thing is parking. I know that there won't be a lot of parking up there. So when they have guests, they're gonna try to find a way into our parking because they can just walk right up the hill to use that neighborhood as our development along with probably the rest of Club Sport. I don't know if they've thought of that that those homes will be using that parking lot for guest parking probably a lot.

I'm strongly against it, as you can tell. I think it will affect our community a lot, and it will take away our view and our open space and crowded, and I'd appreciate it if we don't have it there. Thank you.

Thank you for coming out tonight. We appreciate that.

Marion Curto, then Charles Shannon.

Hi. Marion Querto, and I live down the block in, Canyon Lakes area, and I'm here to support my neighbors. Do a lot of walking up there, walk by the golf court I mean, tennis courts, etcetera. I just urge you to really please think carefully. Thank you for going up and actually walking around the area to see what it's like. It's hilly. It's the the earth does move. And, if you haven't walked up there, please walk up and take a look at what's being, planned. Thanks for your pictures of the houses and stuff, and I would expect you to have beautiful houses, but it's not about how pretty the house is. And it didn't seem like you have a whole lot of information that you came to this evening to help us out.

I do feel helpless about these situations. I mean, I think it's already a done deal that you guys have already made your decision, and I'm here just to say that I do feel like, yeah. I'll put my two bits in. I have the concerns for the cars, the traffic, the congestion. I leave for work at 05:30 in the morning, and it's already building up a little bit. I can't imagine once this whole system gets going. And people, if they actually work and not retire, they're gonna be pulling out onto what roads. I don't know. And then I worry about the trees on, Bolinger Canyon. Somebody's gonna decide, oh, well, we've overbuilt.

Now we gotta get rid of all those beautiful meat trees in the median, and there goes, Bolinger Canyon Road. So it's just one domino effect after the other, in my opinion. So I would really urge you to think carefully. Like I said, I feel like it's a done deal already, but thanks for listening.

Thank you for coming out tonight.

Charles Shannon then Eureko Dimitrov.

Good evening, distinguished members of the board. My name is Charles Shannon. I was originally a renter at Sienna Hills. I've been an educator in the Bay Area for thirty five years. I currently teach first grade. I'm a working class person who loves my community. We're all working class people who found Sienna Hills the only somewhat affordable place to pour all of our resources in. I work four jobs just to live at Sienna Hills. It's been my respite, my way to go home and relax, be amongst the wildlife. It's not noisy.

It's beautiful. That's why we moved to San Ramon. It's just an incredible place. We love our diverse community. I've been president of the HOA for about twenty years. We've worked very hard to maintain the look so it blends in. We're not a modern aesthetic as we heard earlier tonight from Toll Brothers. We're much different than that. We worry so much like I worry about my students' safety, about the safety. We have 82 units, but we've heard three to four bedrooms.

Plus, you could rent out the lower level, which people do to offset their mortgage and to pay their taxes. If you multiply the number of people that potentially could own cars, we know people oftentimes have more cars than the number of deeded spots, they get away with it. I also recall so many evenings when I was not able to get into Sienna Hills because of a major accident in that intersection with just the existing traffic that we currently have. We've had people killed. We've had people seriously injured because there's too much traffic for that intersection.

That's quite a complex intersection. And then when you have the strip mall right there, you have people jetting out, taking risks to cross. Imagine three to 400 more people living on that hill. And all of those vehicles we're talking about, we heard, like, a 140 something cars potentially or more coming in and out. And, you know, people go, gosh. I gotta race down to Marketplace to get something I forgot at the store. I gotta pick up my kids. You know, they're playing tennis, you know, because we no longer have tennis courts here. We have to go to, you know, neighboring tennis courts. So you've got so much vehicle movement, and I just worry about our children and the pedestrians.

There's just not adequate space to get traffic in and out, to get people safely to their homes. We want safety for all people here. So I come to you tonight to say I heard a lot of, we don't know the answer. We need to call talk to the civil engineer. We need to talk to our lawyers. This is in discussion. They said they've met with us. We had a few virtual meetings, and, again, they didn't have a lot of answers for us. We told them so many things we're concerned about. Is there a traffic study?

We haven't seen one. What about the fire? We had major floods, and it flooded our units. What's gonna happen now with that up there with flooding and fire potential and then our wildlife? They're gonna they're gonna escape with all the lighting, all the additional lighting up there. And my mind right now is swirling. I'm scared. I'm worried. My investment is not gonna be the same. Okay. And I've worked my whole life for it. Okay.

Thank you. And I'll share it.

With deep pockets is gonna come in and take that away from you.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Please consider all of us tonight with our concerns. Thank you.

Thank you for coming out tonight.

Yuri Kodimetrov and then Noah Hausman.

Good evening. Chair Alport, vice chair of commissioners. My name is Iriko Dimitrov. Been part of the community for about ten years now, and we moved, I think, around 2017, and we live right below where pretty much all the neighbors here talking about in that same area. In that time, I've seen our community grow and thrive. Grow is super important not just for me, but for the city, for everybody else, and for the future for all all of us. But I wanna begin saying that I respect Old Brothers a lot. I mean, they're very reputable company. And they since some of their projects, they're pretty good. But I was surprised to learn that honestly, pretty surprised to learn that their application has a lot of deficiencies and issues.

And, honestly, I was I came here to learn a little bit more about the project itself. I didn't hear much. Part of a few few slides and few words, not it's not clear what exactly they're gonna be doing and how they're gonna do it. They also from what I understand, there are just some only so only resolved access to the only role that can they can use to actually start development. And I think one of you asked the question if the second role will be built.

He didn't hear that as well. But, I mean, it sounds like the application is not complete, and I know they have time to resolve all these all these deficiencies. But isn't that, like, just wasting everyone's time and taxpayer's time as well and resources just to go through application that is not complete? And and a part of all this, I mean, we can't forget about the hill hillside itself. I mean, there is just a a lot of, wildlife out there.

I've personally seen it. I lived there. I've seen coyotes, deers, like, just the other day. We can show pictures and send them to you, by the way. There are many other animals, and a cokes, and I don't know if there are any protected animals in the area, but, certainly, couple of years of development will really disturb that area if it doesn't even just kind of, like, everything up there might be even lost. I was not sure, like, some of my neighbors have mentioned here if coming today actually makes sense because some of those deals are kind of I think the public thinks that it's they're done deals. But seeing so many of the neighbors here just proof that it matters just to share our opinions. I wanna stress again. I'm I support growth and for development. I want our city to grow.

But with all the current developments, around downtown the area, I don't know what's gonna happen where Chevron used to be. There are many other places that are being built. Our roads are already stretched. Our infrastructure is stretched. I'm not sure if the city has, you know, had the time to cope with all of these changes. And I think that somebody else mentioned the same thing as well. When I'm going in the morning downhill to work, I mean, there is just a lot of cars, especially in the morning hours when people are bringing their kids to school and things like that. I mean, that those three, four hundred cars will not help that. So I strongly hope that you consider not approving this application, which is not even complete. Thanks so much.

K. Thank you.

Noah Halsband and Ali Hashemian.

K. Well, no. Just I wanted to make one comment. The the question of why is there so little information, that's by design. It's really is by design that we ask the applicant to come early early in the process knowing full well that the answers are not all there, but it does give the commission as well as the public an early chance to see something and then have an opportunity to influence what happens.

So it's kind of a it's kind of a pro and con thing. If we waited till everything was done, the likelihood of anything changing is very small. Because as a builder or developer, the farther they get into the process, the more difficult it is to make changes. So we ask developers to come in very early on in the process so that we can actually provide that feedback and have the greatest chance to influence what the final product looks like. So while I appreciate the frustration, I think we also would like some more answers on things.

We also have come to learn it's better to have this early in the process rather than too late. So just keep that in mind, but we do appreciate your comments because every one of them, you can tell we're all taking notes as well as the applicant as well as staff. So thank you for that. And so we'll go ahead and continue with the public comment. Thank you.

Noah Hausman.

Good evening, council. My name is Noah Hausman. I've been living in this valley since I was about 12 years old, specifically San Ramon, probably the last twenty, twenty five years, give or take. I have not seen this valley grow quicker than anywhere else I've lived in my life. And I'm gonna tell you right now, I've raised my family here. You heard my wife speak. We're very concerned about this development because it's gonna change not only the aesthetics of where we live, but the quality of life is gonna completely change. K? My like I said, I I raised my young son here, and he still lives here. And all of these people came out.

We're all working class people like Charles mentioned. I mean, I work for a utility company. I know the infrastructure impact this is gonna cause. This guy is coming up here with nice screenshots of beautiful homes and aesthetics and brand new builds. Our our our our place was built in 8889. It's not brand new. It's not gonna fit in with that. It's gonna actually be the polar opposite of that. It it it's not gonna look uniform. It's not gonna look crystal and pretty like theirs does.

The impact to the traffic it's gonna cause. Everybody touched on that. I'm concerned about that too. We have like I said, we have children that play in the neighborhood. Where are they gonna go when they run out and get hit by a car because somebody's rushing to get somewhere, or they're pissed off because now there's even more traffic than there used to be? That road rage is real. Let's be honest. You've got fire damage, control going on. I mean, I know the fire marshal approves it, but I'm sure he rubber stamps all these projects. You guys probably have 50 or 60 of these in the city going on with applications, if not more.

We're not asking you to stop development. We're asking you to stop this project. We don't want you to look at all the studies and try to mitigate it. We're asking you to just stop it from happening. Anybody can mitigate a problem. That doesn't make the problem go away. That just makes it put a Band Aid on it. So after they get paid and leave town, we're stuck with the issues. No one here wants these issues. And trust me, there's twice as many people that didn't even make it tonight that are gonna come down here for the next meeting.

I appreciate all you guys trying to do your due diligence and research, and all a lot of us feel like this is a done deal. But I'm hopeful that it's not. I'm holding hope out because I think you guys all have homes and you live in a nice area and you have a home and you you go out your front door, you don't wanna look on the hill and see a big development being built in your your sites, right, where you guys pay hard earned money to live in and thrive. That's just like us. We don't want that. We we we we put all our sacrifice and money and work and time into buying something and enjoying it because it's serene. It is a beautiful place to live. The wildlife is exceptional. Bobcats. There's a mountain lion a couple years ago we got video of.

I mean, it's insane how much is out there. They're gonna decimate it. Please stop it. Please. I'm begging you. Please.

Ali Hashemian and then Ariel Strauss.

Good evening. Thank you so much for this opportunity, and I appreciate being able to speak

with

you.

Thank you. That way the the recording

Well, thank you again for the opportunity of speaking with you and having this hearing. I've lived here longer than most of you possibly, except maybe you if you've been here. I remember a time where pavement stopped at Club Sport. Do you remember those days? And it was a beautiful little country road, and every now and then, there would be little flooding so you couldn't get through this area from five eighty. And I think they did a great job of presentation, and it's great. To me, it reminds me of your dating profile, not mine, but you've seen that you put ideal picture. It's not real. It's not you. These are apartments.

Call them whatever you want. In a date and age that I do remember being a renter, townhomes were homes maybe next to each other with some land behind them that you could have your kids play and your dogs do their business. These are apartments. Definition of them is a long structure, shared roof. What is there?

Just let's call them what they are. And they are sitting 40 feet high on top of the tallest structure in this area, the hill. So imagine this is gonna be the tallest landmark in this area. I know that we have some hills on the what what side would be the west side. But in this area of the Bollinger Lane just comes up here is the height of the or the pinnacle, and then this is gonna be 40 feet tall.

And this is what people are going to see. And, obviously, one of the qualities of life about San Ramon has been valuing ourselves for the greens. Now we're going to take recreational facility that we are short of. And so many people suffering from mental health, and I know because I'm in that field, although, you know, I might be mentally ill myself. I know.

But having some difficulties and what they need really take their head out of that screen and get out there and enjoy the sun. Now we're gonna take the, tennis courts, one of the few in the area that people have access to. 1,500 people use that every year. The other issue that they have addressed and some of the folks have talked about is the parking. If you haven't been to Bollinger Canyon Lane, I invite you to come visit.

It is a nightmare as it is already. How are we going to get 300 cars more in that area, and what are we going to do about the sidewalk? And we all remember the tragedy of what happened on Bolinger Road, and that's one of the reason the traffic lanes are now smaller because we had to borrow land to build the sidewalk. How are people from our community as well as the new community are going to walk to the main street? Other part is the fire hazard.

I know we keep talking about fire hazard, but the studies have shown that the fire their wildfire risk increases by 37%. And I'd be happy to share those studies with you. And some studies show that taking the land that's already built on and converting it to, green space reduced the fires risk by 60%. And, of course, there's the flooding, and we have had flooding already as it is, from the community. So let's now look at the pretty pictures and remember that there's going to be a 20 foot wall built in front of our homes. I thank you for that. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments. If I could

just I have one. All the land around there, you you asked, they belong to our HOA, which has served. And absolutely based on my conversation, there is no agreement to share and give easement or nothing. So as of right now, this is where we are. So all that land that you mentioned is ours.

Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. Okay. If I could both. If I yeah. If I could just ask the audience to please not clap, and there's a reason for that. The reason is while it might feel good to the person speaking that the audience applauds, if there's somebody else in the audience that wants to say something else, it's very intimidating for those people. So if I could just ask you to refrain from applause, and that would make the hearing feel more comfortable and inclusive for everybody that's in attendance. So thank you.

Thank you. Good evening, chair, vice chair, commissioners. My name is Ariel Strauss. I'm attorney at Greenfire Law and counsel to Sienna HOA. Neighbors have raised many concerns, and we at HOA have only seen the specifics of the design when it was submitted to the city.

And I wanna focus specifically on title issues and elements that are missing from the September 2 application. First, sheet TM two shows that the current path of tennis courts is partly on Parcel L that will need to be further expanded to provide vehicle access to the 82 condos and seven ADUs. But Parcel L is owned by Sienna HOA, and the plan papers over this problem by simply saying to be quitclaimed. It even doesn't include a notation of the Parcel L APN. However, Toll Brothers has not requested Sienna quitclaim this land, nor does HOA have any intention to do so.

This is a fundamental problem. The second issue that I wanna point out about ownership concerns Bolinger Canyon Lane, which occupies part of Parcel A and is a private street owned by Sienna HOA. There's an easement over that lane, but it only grants access to a lot where the main club sports complex is located, but not to Parcel P where the condo project is supposed to be built. The plan proposes alterations to the lane, but has not obtained the owner's approval to do this. With my remaining time, we wanna identify some application deficiencies.

The application does not discuss compliance with the hillside and ridgeline standards in zoning ordinance chapter d five, which limits building height and sense sets density standards precisely on high visibility hills at this elevation, which is something people have touched on several times already. The application also lacks a geotechnical drainage stormwater and hydrology reports and title report that are required of a subdivision per section C5-forty three. The application also not including evidence of fire truck turnaround access or compliant with road compliance with road standards in section c five slash slash one sixty five and d three dash 37. As shown by the photos submitted by residents of the level of con current parking and traffic congestion, the city must require a traffic study under code section c four dash two. There has been some discussion of the deemed completeness issue, and I wanna call to your attention to the permit streamlining act, which is government code section six five nine four three a, that requires Citi, quote, shall provide the applicant with an exhaustive list of items that were not complete, end quote, within thirty days.

The thirty day deadline is September 2, which is two weeks from today. So this is likely to be your last and only opportunity to identify those issues that'll be included in that comprehensive list. Failure to include something in the list precludes a city from requesting that item in the future. And if you think something is objective standard that you wish to enforce but is not included already in the application, it is critical that you obtain staff's assurance that it will be included. But otherwise, what'll happen is they will simply run out the clock, and you'll be forced to prove more or less the application you see today.

Thank you. I, hope that you do demand the detailed, elements of a specific letter to make sure that all those issues are present to you in the future so you have the opportunity to do the job that you've been asked to do and that you're doing so carefully tonight. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Doctor. Laura Levine and then Chi and Eddie Lee.

Good evening. I am concerned. I'm against that project, and I'm concerned that it's going to, again, bring more traffic and be really in the face of all those. I live in Vista Pointe, which is across from Clubsport. And I'm wondering what is exactly it's it's not very clear in what you have shown.

Where is the where will be the entrance and where the that plot is gonna be exactly located. So I'm curious to know that. And and I'm also concerned, like everybody here, of the quality of life that we we enjoy in San Ramon and all this wildlife. Thank you.

Thank you.

Chiyun, Eddie Lu, and then Ardel Zunino.

If this is a done deal, it's a done deal. Release the tennis court. Release the pickleball court. You guys figure out how to do it. We did that.

K. Thank you.

Arnel Zunino and then Terence Yap. What was it?

Good evening. My name is Ardell Sanino, and I live on 209 Canyon Lakes Place. And I have been living there since I'm original owner, thirty six years. I've also have been a club member at Club Sport for just about that length of time when as soon as they opened a couple months later as a board member. I have a couple of questions, but I think what I wanted to also share is how much I respect this council because the role that you play representing the community, and we have the opportunity tonight to share our concerns.

And this is, I feel like, history repeating itself because I was here over three years ago sharing my concerns with the marketplace and the closure of Nob Hill, not because I thought it was a fantastic store and I loved but what was more concerning is that the council didn't really, I feel, hear the community sharing the concerns of what are you going to do to replace having a full service grocery store. As you know now, that is a situation that's still a work in progress. The project was is still, I'm understanding, work in progress. I have no idea what the entity is, but there still is no answer or response from the major concerns that we had this room packed full. In our community, we raised the level of concerns by sending flyers out.

And coming here again tonight, I feel like it's history repeating itself because I belong to an HOA, obviously. I did not hear anything. I'm ahead of our board. I attend the board meetings. This was a reactive.

And how I was reacting to it was from a business owner who actually teaches tennis lessons and understanding that that's going to go away. So again, the question is what are you going to do to replace tennis lessons? I go to ClubSport every night about five times a week in the evenings. I see all the parents picking up their children at ClubSport parking lot. What are we gonna do to replace the quality of life with that?

What are you gonna do to replace the quality of life of Clubsport going away? And then more importantly, I'm repeating myself, I know with some of the other concerns, and that is I live right against a hill. I don't have a neighbor. I have a hill, and I am constantly concerned with the fire dangers of my home. And I'm very concerned with the fire dangers in this this whole that whole surrounding area.

Needless to say, we don't need to talk about the traffic, but I was here when we it stopped at at Clubsport. And when I see now Bollinger Canyon, it takes me sometimes just to get to the freeway in the morning. If I I'm not out by a certain time, I'm in that gridlock with the parents dropping their kids off at school. So I guess my question to you is what does it take? What is the measurement for opposition of something to stop? How do you measure the concerns? We heard that, yes, you did reach out to the homeowners. I didn't voice my concern then. So what do you do as a council members to measure the amount of opposition that people are saying, stop this. We do not want it.

And we're sharing you all of our reasons. What will you do, to listen to us so we're not repeating history? So I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Thank you for coming out tonight.

Terrence. Yep.

Oh, got to make it slower. Good evening, board. I appreciate you listening to me today. I'm getting this Kevin Bacon footloose feeling, man. Nineteen eighty four. You know? We've been listening to everyone here tonight, and I I really am happy with the passionate answers I heard. Noah, Charles, these guys are people who live in my community. I am so proud to stand by their side and ask them to have this be befriended it. What makes San Ramon such a great town?

You know, I said city, but it is a town. It's is the same thing referenced in Footloose is because we are a community. If you keep putting and building more condos, where does that lead us to? You know? So, I mean, we we're one of the most sought towns in California. Are we not? So I I you know, today, I spent the whole morning passing out these flyers for this meeting tonight so that the community would be aware of this. I met our former neighbor. Mayor, sorry. And he was a really nice guy.

He really said, you know, Terrence, I really appreciate your concern. So I'm here for that. I'm here for my neighbors. I'm here for you know I really hope that you guys really decide and say, hey. Wait a minute. Maybe we should take a step back. The other thing I wanna bring up that one of my neighbors just brought to my attention is that I don't know if you guys are aware of, but there is an owl that might be endangered in our area. It's the western owl, and you might wanna take a look into that before we can start billing. That's all I've got.

Thank you for coming out tonight. I

have no other speaker cards.

We're gonna close public comment unless there's any last minute speakers. Okay. We'll go ahead and close the public comment. And at this point, the commission will provide feedback to the applicant and staff. And, again, as a reminder, this is the first time that we have seen this project. And as was mentioned earlier by staff, there's still work to be done to evaluate the project. We said there's a number of things that are in process, but the the goal of us tonight is to specifically provide feedback on what things we might like to see in the future, what things we might like to see different. You know? But no decision will be made tonight. There won't be a vote at all.

We're just gonna provide the feedback, and staff and the applicant will take that back and process it. We'll see when they come back at some point in the future if they choose to. Okay. With that, commissioners, somebody wish to share comments, suggestions, feedback to staff and the applicant at this point? Commissioner Kuznick.

I'm just gonna reiterate some of the the points that I personally wanted to to note in this project, and and it is redundant. So so we one of the things that really strikes me is that I I realized that there is great desire for density and getting every square inch of land put into housing. I think this plot of land, however, begs for a a different approach. Yes. You can squeeze that many houses in.

It is a housing opportunity site, but part of good architecture is making the buildings fit the land. The way this is the terrain is, I have concerns about, as mentioned, flooding, landslides, fires, safety. I look at those retaining walls and having raised two sons, Just can't wait to see the kids jumping off and seeing how far they can go. I I and if you've sat through some of these meetings, for me, safety is always of prime importance, and I think about the children and and what's gonna how they are just being normal, and they'll do stupid things like ride their bikes off the walls. So safety.

And, again, this is why for me, this project looks like it I feel like it's Cinderella's stepsisters trying to cram those those feet that don't fit the glass slipper. So this this is a lovely piece of land, but do we really have to have all of the 82 units? Could we look at this and provide a little more more breathing room for and again, we have not seen the the fire department's rendering on this for in and out, for walkways. Most of these projects that we see do not have sidewalks for residents to to walk in. You you're just you're on the the roads, the lanes if you're going to walk the the neighborhood, so to speak.

And we also heard and I know commissioner Villa will probably speak to this about community amenities. I also noted that and, again, if I've if I've misread the the teeny tiny print here, I apologize, but the access the ADU accessible units are the ones that are located, at least as I read the plans, the farthest from where the mailboxes are. And so if you're thinking that you have a limited mobility residence, that they are now the farthest from their mailboxes, and so they would most likely then, you know, be in a position where they would have to drive to go pick up their mail rather than, you know, walk to a mailbox. So maybe we can look at that and and rethink that. I I'm not a fan of 20 foot retaining walls.

I realize that that is something that you've asked for as a waiver. And we this is where the, state legislature has tied our hands a bit and, you know, more to be discussed about that. I won't take up the time here tonight. But there's just just some things about this that that I find a little troubling, and I'm gonna go back to safety and and livability, and and I would encourage our developer to if if you look at the aerial view of where the tennis courts are and replace no. Granted, the buildings would be bigger than the tennis courts.

But look at that as there is walkability around the courts. It it looks like there's breathing space, and that that is a probably a more appealing look at how to how to get enough value out of this this piece of land. And I think every square inch does not have to be housing, in my opinion. So thank you.

Thank you, mister Kuznick. Anybody else have comments tonight? You wanna go? Certainly. Krishna Singh.

Yeah. Thank you, chair. Sorry. I there's there's a lot that I have to say because, well, a lot of people showed up. For a little bit of background, I'm the newest commissioner here. I've been I've lived in San Ramon since I was in first grade, but it was only in the beginning of this year that I started attending planning commission meetings, city council meetings. This is by far the most well attended planning commission meeting I've seen in 2025. Just from the perspective of someone who really believes in in democracy, especially local democracy, I wanna congratulate you all for for organizing like that. I think that's really important. I think that's how we get cities that work for people.

Now this is it was very clear from all the comments. I counted 12 public comments, 13, I think, actually written public comments, and another 10 oral public comments. That's quite a lot for a ceremony and commission meeting. And I don't really want to be the bearer of bad news. I know commissioner Kuznick alluded to state legislature, But I suppose I'll I'll take the hit. First, your guys' concerns are all extremely valid, and we are all here listening. Chair Alpert stated when he opened a public comment. We are all listening to you. We are reading every single public comment. We are taking in every concern.

You know, I even tell I went through the the effort, since I I I work with data in my day job, of tallying, you know, the concerns. I saw 10 things about traffic and congestion, the written comments, nine about the environmental impact and wildlife, six about loss of amenities and quality of life, three about noise, two about wildfire risk, three about shadows and sunlight. We hear these concerns. We we really do. But to get back to what I was saying earlier, to to be the bearer of bad news, from from my understanding, and I would appreciate correction from staff or the other commissioners if I'm getting this wrong, we don't have a magic wand as the planning commission, and in many ways, hands are tied.

Don't wanna get too deep into, like, a history lesson here, but, you know, California is suffering a severe housing affordability crisis. I actually work in housing affordability, so I I understand this stuff relatively intimately. And in response, the state has, whereas previously, cities had a lot more control, and I'm talking about even just five, ten years ago, they had a lot more control on what gets built and where and how quickly and so on and what it looks like. The state has really taken away our control because, to put it bluntly, I don't think the state trusts us to trust us as cities, individual cities, to take housing seriously. I might trust regional governments more, but but, essentially, since cities are creatures of the state, we we have to follow state law.

The California Housing and Community Development Department has made it very clear they are not fooling around these days. If we do not follow state law, we suffer things like we'll be sued and lose. Many cities have lost. They have tried and failed. We'll be fined, and they will let the projects get built anyway.

So, for example, if this project does go through, if staff deems that's complete and it comes to a vote, yes, technically, we as the planning commission could say no in response to the concerns that you all have brought up, but we would likely be sued, and we would definitely lose, and then they would build the project anyway, which I guess alludes to sort of the the comments I heard about this being a done deal. And I understand that frustration because, you know, before I got appointed to the planning commission, I was sitting on the other side of the dais. And I had I had my own perspectives about housing in San Ramon and what I want to see the city develop, and it feels like you don't really have control as a citizen. So I understand that. Now I this is a sorry.

This is a lot of comments. I apologize for sort of rambling. I I I just really wanna make it clear. We care. We are trying to do our best. We are listening to your concerns, but it is not just up to us. Increasingly, very little is left up to us. We are required, like I said, to follow state law. And so then the question, the natural question is, what can you do? We, as a planning commission, we're here to give feedback to the applicant, and I I have to give credit to to Toll Brothers. Thank you. Rob, is it? Right. Thank you for for, you know, coming out here, giving this presentation, giving us as much information as you could. More is better.

That's something that we've clearly heard. Make sure making sure everyone's on the same page and we all have the same expectation. That's really valuable. I also just wanna say, like, this is a housing project. We need housing. We have a legal mandate to build 5,111 units before 2031. I don't know how much progress we've made on that so far, but there are like like I said before, there are legal consequences if we don't meet meet those requirements. And I believe 61% of those units have to be affordable as well. I understand that affordability is a big concern, you know, to the folks here who who live in Sienna Hills. You know, I checked your homes on Zillow.

Those are very affordable, and it we're happy to have you guys here, and we're happy that places like San Ramon have units that are affordable to normal working class people. And these homes in in one shape or another do contribute to increasing the housing supply and and making homes more affordable overall, even though I know that's cold comfort if you are a neighbor to these projects. So to to get back to sorry. I really am rambling here. To get back to what I was saying, what can you guys as residents do knowing that we we as a planning commission have have limited avenues of recourse?

The developer and the builder have very, very strong legal protections granted by the state that we cannot avoid. What can you do? I would say you guys have demonstrated a remarkable amount of community organization. I don't have this in my neighborhood. I don't even really know my neighbors. I've been living in my house for the past seventeen years, so you guys all seem to know each other. That's amazing. And it's not just people living in Sienna Hills. It's not just people living on Canyon Lakes Drive. It's also some people from, what, Canyon View Circle or the area that sort of branches off Chanterella.

Right? It's it's great that you guys are all coming out here. I would say, in an ideal world, the best outcome we could see is if you guys continue to organize and meet with your neighbors, and that includes club sport. Right? Who is the landowner in this case, who is asking Toll or getting Toll Brothers and the other engineers to build this project.

If you guys could have more communication, self organize, and think from a bigger picture perspective, what do we wanna see with this neighborhood? Because that intersection of Canyon Lakes and Canyon View with Bollinger is a mess. I always get stopped there, right, when I'm driving down Bollinger. I live out in Windermere Ranch. When I'm getting to City Hall like, I got stopped there coming to City Hall today, and it needs a lot of work.

That whole area is very challenged from a traffic perspective. I know that's a huge concern, and that is a consequence of planning decisions that were ultimately made by, yeah, I don't know if all of you know, but that area was built by the county, what, in the late eighties or early nineties or so. I think maybe if the city had done it, we would have done things a little bit differently. I'm not too sure, but it's challenged by these these road connectivity issues and traffic issues. And it is only with a larger, more comprehensive plan with community buy in that we can expect those issues to be resolved.

I don't know what exactly that looks like. That might be a connection to Crow Canyon, for example, if you're going all the way up. I the the name is slipping by my if you're on Watson Canyon Court, right, maybe a connection to the the area up in adjacent that branches off of Crow Canyon. Maybe something that connects to, what, Woodland Drive, and then you get on to Alcosta. Maybe something that connects to Chanterella somehow.

I know someone's home is going to have to get demolished, guess. But point being that some of these issues that we are so concerned about, if you can get more neighborhood buy in, if you can get more people to be mobilized and organized and say, we have these issues. We are worried about traffic and wildlife. If you recognize that with more people organizing because you guys all own your homes. Right? The ownership structure is very fragmented. If you wanna get anything done, you all have to get together. Right? Only with that higher level of organization can we see a plan that will address all the concerns that everyone has today. And that we I think we, as the planning commission, we and and staff would be very happy to look through and approve.

That puts a lot of responsibility on you all. Sorry. I'm sort of passing the buck here. But in in my opinion, that that's what I think would need to happen. This doesn't have to be a done deal. And in the sense that, like, these projects will get built, this home will these homes will get built and all your concerns will be ignored. I don't think it has to be like that. I think we can build the project. I think we can address your concerns, and I think this can be a win win for everyone, but it requires a lot of work and a lot of organization. I hope you guys continue to show up because I really appreciate hearing all your concerns.

But this is if we these are big problems, and they require bigger solutions to address. So thank you all. I'll stop talking now.

Thank you, commissioner Xing. Here we go. Here we go. Please go.

Thank you to everyone who came to tonight's meeting. It's by far the most number of people that I've seen here. So we all really appreciate all the comments that you guys have come and shared. One of the things that I wanted to start off by saying was that the history of the parcel itself, the two parcels that are in question where this will be this development is proposed to take place was rezoned back in 2023. It used to be commercial rec, and then it changed over, to multifamily high density.

And as you are aware, it's one of the housing opportunity sites that the city has. And the project has come before us because it's it's zoned to allow for that use. And as commissioner Zhang went ahead and alluded to, our hands are really tied to what is now, you know, for many years that California has been in these, you know, this housing crisis where they've passed so much legislation year after year after year that it makes it, you know, a bit much to catch up on. I think we had heard from the city that there were maybe 56 bills that were passed, just in one year. Gotcha.

So there there is a lot there, and I understand that commissioner Kuznick also alluded to, you know, where the density, and it is high density. It's zoned for that. And the project that's come before us tonight is saying that it's 23 dwelling units per acre, which is on the lower end of that high density. So this is at a low end already. I mean, we could see something that would be proposed that would be a higher density density within that range, and I'm not sure.

I'd have to do that calculation to find out what that max density could be. And as you are aware, the applicant is using density bonus law. And with that density bonus law, they're not using, any sort of, like they're not asking for more density, but the state would allow it, based on how many so how a project qualifies for that is, in this case, they're providing 5% of the homes to be low, very low. And so then they're able to ask for unlimited waivers and potentially, I think, one concession. So the waivers are, in a sense, asking for okay.

There's these certain development standards that are allowed for high density residential, and we ask that you go ahead and lax these because of these reasons. So that is the letter that we received from Toll Brothers' attorney on this. So the other aspect is, you know, the SB three thirty part of the application as well, where there's a time frame where they have to go ahead and submit appropriate materials, and there's this completeness period and consistent seed determination and so forth. So there are a lot of things that, you know, kind of are, okay. This makes sense.

This is why the applicant is coming before us with this project. It's zoned to allow that. There's a lot of laws that would favor the developer as as commissioner commissioner Zhang referred to, earlier that the state has put it so that the city of San Ramon can't say no or any other city can't say no. We have a sit as a city, a certain number of housing that we have to provide every eight years, and that's through a housing element that we go ahead and and have those apportioned, like, very low, low, moderate, you know, above moderate units that we have to go ahead and hit. If not, then the city goes ahead and faces repercussions.

On that note, there are one of the things that I wanted to let you know, the applicant, Rob, who's here tonight, is that we've seen quite a bit of community members come up before us tonight at the meeting as well as given written comment as well. And there's a lot that didn't, you know, probably have that opportunity to do so. And I would really like the applicant to it sounds like the the HOA you know, the representatives that came up before us said, well, they're not really letting us know a lot of information. So it almost seems that there has to be better communication. I know that the HOA probably meets a certain number of times per month or per year.

I'm not sure at what rate they meet at, but if you could potentially, like, go ahead and, you know, have some sort of better communication and share with them, okay. Like, you know, from what I understand, this is the feedback. And here's what we can do better. And we're doing this, and I understand that traffic calming and, you know, all these other things are issues for you. And so how can we work on navigating this solution together?

The other thing is that, not just the HOA, but the other neighbors as well. I believe that the city noticed, within 300 feet or so, and it would be good to do the community outreach on Toll Brothers' behalf. I think it would largely benefit in the long run instead of having the project ultimately appealed when it is ready to go ahead and come before us for approval, if that would be the case. So that's that's a big concern that the project has. The other is there seems to be some sort of issue with who owns what and who has access in that easement and whether or not you would be able to take access through that easement.

It seems like there has to be some conversation between both of your the HOA's attorney and your attorney as well. And, you know, that I don't think should be up to the city to decide that's something that you have to go ahead and determine. It's a civil matter. The other thing is, as I mentioned before, it would be nice to have some sort of other community amenity. I know that the one would be that potential overlook that's on the southwest of the project, but potentially over that bio basin that would be an underground.

So Toll Brothers is a luxury builder, and I would hope that there can be some sort of pocket park or area since these are townhomes. They're not going to have access to private open space like you would a traditional single family home with a backyard or front yard. So I think that would be very beneficial to the residents to go ahead and provide something like that. The other thing is that there seems to be, like, a a a thing about okay. Like, would we be able to view the proposed project from Bollinger Canyon Lane and the Sienna homes that are down south?

If there could be some potential to show some renderings for what that would actually look like. Right? It's it's hard to tell. I can I can look at Google Earth? I can I can mess around?

It seems like the project in itself and looking at the topo is within a valley, so it's not at the highest peak. So I don't believe you would be able to view it as you continue going west of the site, but I think there has to be some sort of rendering that shows, hey. You know, in in this parking lot of Sienna Hills, like, the the closest residence, this is what it would look like from here. And this is what it would look like from Bollinger Canyon Lane. The other thing is that I would like to see continued connectivity for the sidewalk or pedestrian pedestrian path throughout the site.

It ends abruptly in some areas, and it would be really nice for the community if I I know that there's that sidewalk that would go up Drive Aisle a that would be the access to continue to have that be, like, some sort of continuous path. The other that I mentioned previously was an overlay of the existing development versus the proposed. It's when I was looking at them both, I could I could tell, yes, it's going to be a larger footprint. But seeing something like that would, I think, be beneficial. One of the other things that I wanted to note was just to go ahead and look at the code for the ADA path of travel because sometimes I know when the slope is greater than 5%, there's additional sort of codes that taking place with potential, like, for handrails and so forth.

So I just wanna make sure that it is actually an ADA accessible path. One of the things that really came up was the traffic, and I would like for you guys to think about traffic calming measures. I know that you're going to propose an entry gate. I'm not sure if it would work so close to Bollinger Canyon Lane, but we don't want people flying by. The other thing that seems to have been said is that there already seem to be traffic issues with what's currently existing and nothing to do with the proposed project.

I'm not sure what the trip rates would be, for the tennis courts currently, how much traffic it's getting right now. But there would be I'm not sure. I'm not I'm not saying, but there might be some traffic reduction for single family homes rather than what's there existing now. But I I'm not I'm I'm not a traffic engineer. The so I I know that the the city would also go ahead and have an LOS analysis for the project.

So that's something that the city will go ahead and look at. And what that does is, essentially, it it the traffic engineer goes ahead and says, okay. I want these intersections analyzed and so forth based on the proposed project and others that are existing now or proposed or in construction. And so then that analysis goes ahead and looks to see if there's any improvements that would be required, whether that would be widening the lanes or adding additional crosswalks or traffic signals and so forth so that will take place. Every project is required to do that, and there are certain standards that the city has for what they deem as an acceptable level of service for intersections and so forth.

The other thing that came up was the environmental impact that the project would have. We have CEQUA. The project will go through CEQUA. And the the thing that you have to also note is that it is allowed within our general plan. So the general plan did look at the build out for this site as being high density residential.

So that's just something to keep a note. And I think that the other thing was that, I know that, Ariel Strauss, who represents the Sierra the sorry. The Sienna Hills, HOA came before us and and talked about that letter. And I think that's something that should be handled between you and and and, I mean, your attorney and theirs, but I think some sort of response is warranted to that. So that's the other thing that I I just wanted to know.

That's pretty that's all that I have.

It's been wonderful seeing so many people and here in this meeting, and thanks for sharing your concerns. It is very much appreciated that you came out tonight and spoke about this. As you are aware, this is just an initial proposal, and really appreciate you guys knowing more about the information as well. And, I also wanna thank, other commissioners who have given a little bit of background on the state laws that have our our hands tied. I I I should say the way this has been put forward is if they meet the objective standards, if the builder meets certain standards, and if I am being the landowner wanting to build something, I I would want to build it there.

What the neighbors think, I I wouldn't care personally. But being building a new community also means also having that nice harmonic relationship with the neighbors. Once we have that, that really helps. And some of this some of the work that Toll Brothers I I live in a Toll Brothers community just before you guys think that Wyatt commissioner is doing one thing versus another. I live in the neighborhood.

I have I am in one of the Toll Brothers built community. I've seen the quality and what they do, and they are a luxury homebuilder. And it's surprising to see that they are building real homes and which is which is great. Probably, we'll have a good quality there as well. And I I want to ensure that we all of us, all the commissioners are volunteer members, and we want to ensure that this all the city gets a fair view, and they are following the laws.

The one of the best question that, many of the members ask is, what can you guys do? I don't want this project. Like, I'm just reiterating what they have said. But what we can do in this scenario is based on the conditions that are being laid on by the state laws, we can make this scenario a win win win situation. And there are many examples that we have helped do that with the city and with other other developments as well.

We would really like to see there is a good good faith help from the builder perspective that you guys are addressing the concerns of the neighbors. That that would be that would be the primary expectation that we have. And remember, this is not a one time project for you guys. And if you guys do one good job in one community, that will go on for n number of different cities that you guys build, and this this is not a one and done situation for you guys. So, hopefully, you guys take that into consideration and provide some, better understanding, some of the feedback from commissioner Kuznick looking at it, 82 homes.

Great. But do you really think of course, you guys think look at the profitability and ROI and etcetera. But what is best for the community? Also, there there is a good balance that we all can live with. And, of course, there will be inputs taking the inputs from the city staff once they go through all this stuff.

And many of the commissioners have brought up very good salient points. And I would say if you guys can work with the HOAs and neighboring communities and with the city staff, that could help you guys make this project a better for harmonic relationship with the neighbors, that would really help. I would point out one thing. Am very ardent supporter of trails, and commissioner Kozenich has gone to that location today and trying there is not necessarily a assigned trail there, but if there are any easements to the trail that you guys can look at, any pathways that would blend with the nature, that would really help. And I I know I'd it's been a dead it's been been multiple times on a dead horse that you guys need to talk about the easements with the neighboring parcels, and that's something that between you before you come back with the finalization and things like that that, of course, you guys will do that.

And the I I wanna talk about also, this is a very good education session for the neighbors. There are some great opportunities even within the city. Mister Lorne Bar, the zoning administrator, he runs a planning academy. So, I know you guys can take a look at that, which is basically free for the residents of the city, and that tells you what the planning commission could do and things like that. You're also, here good to see the attorney as well from the HOA.

He is well aware of the state laws, and he has brought up some good points that we can look at. And we will surely look at each and every point and show that that is met to the satisfaction of the law and is everything is being followed by the law and by the book. So one additional thing that I'll mention is there are tons of new laws and that have been imposed, and, there are very few waivers and stuff that probably you guys might have noticed that commissioners have asked some questions at the early part of this meeting. What are the waivers? What is the DBL exemptions that you guys are asking?

So once the landowner has decided he wants to build it and one converted this in 2023, that's when they have decided to be a high density location where they could build projects. So it's dependent on the owner of the parcel as well. There there are some right that goes with it, and the state laws that give additional support recently with all the new laws that the builders can have with even with the narrow space, they can build multiple high density homes. So that being said, they are also providing some affordable homes even for a low income. So we have to look at both existing and new.

Think about your new neighbors who will be there and have that balance. I I as I mentioned, I I wanna talk about the if there is any street continuity. I I know this is kind of a loop and a circle that comes back. And with that gate at the beginning, if I'm not wrong, probably city staff can correct me, it needs at least 25 feet offset from the lane itself. So could you kindly take a look at that, how far it is in the rendering?

It's not clearly mentioned, but hopefully, you will you guys will look into that and provide some more clarity on that. So finally, I believe in having good trail accessibility, park accessibilities, and having good trees and landscaping. I know there are some landscaping oriented designs that you have brought up. But, hopefully, you can when this comes up next time, you guys can bring in more landscaping detail stuff. That would really help.

And if there are any existing trees that needs to be saved, and and and probably that could be some things that we can take a look at. So with that, I'll say, I I want to address the important question that everybody has come here. What can you guys do? I would say, as commissioners, we will enforce as much as possible from a perspective of law, but we will also make sure as a community members, even tool acts as a good faith member of the community because they they are here to stay, and they want more projects looking at that. So they would surely come to the city and have more.

So they will also work in good faith to provide a better estimate and better provisions to the community that will help everybody and the neighbors as well. With that, I turn it back to you, chair. Thank you. Thanks for the time.

Of course. Well, the benefit of going last is truly almost everything has been said. So thank you, fellow commissioners. Just to echo, we have had public hearings with as big a room as this without more. And, sadly, it's almost always when something's before the city that is somewhat controversial.

So but we also very much appreciate your comments. The question was asked, and I explained it once already, why are we doing this hearing and why now? And and I explained it once, and I think it's worth mentioning again. The law is pretty strict on timelines and documentation that needs to be provided and when, and then failure to provide it is the same as accepting. And what we're attempting to do is we're attempting to ensure that we preserve the maximum flexibility and ability to change a project as early in the process.

Inaction or lack of comments could lead to, by default, you know, not having an ability to influence. I'd like to also thank, you know, Greenfire Law and their memo. They outlined I think I counted 14 bullet points in there of specifics that need to be addressed in the comment. Some of those might be civil, but where civil between the two parties intersects with the city is, as I mentioned, the city has an obligation to identify as part of its completeness review and its consistency review that these have been been evaluated. And if there are issues that are legitimate as, worked through between city staff that they're raised now because if you don't raise them now, as mister Strauss said, it's too late.

So one comment I'd like to just, you know, get on the record is to look at the the the attorney's letter with all the items that were highlighted and ensure that it's positively looked at thoroughly. One of the comments that we heard is it is a done deal, and, you know, we're not here to say it's a done deal or it's not a done deal. Sometimes it does feel like things are a fade to complete, but what is not a done deal is what the final product looks like. You know? The opportunity to provide feedback ourselves tonight as long as along with the commission and the public has a chance to influence and change what gets built.

It also raises issues for the developer to think about as they're moving forward as well. What also has a chance to influence and make changes to projects like this is the is the really thorough, thorough review that the city leads between all of the city departments as well as the public agencies. And just to reiterate, fire looks at these things. Our San Ramon Valley Fire Protection District, they are extremely careful to look at this. The trash company looks at it.

They think about things like, can they get their trash cans in and out and their trucks in and out? The open space is looked at carefully. Traffic is looked at both by the applicant as well as the city. You know, our public works department looks at things like streets and roads and everything there. So just wanna make sure that you all appreciate that, you know, it's not just a done deal, you know, you know, and we do take that serious.

Most of the comments have been specified, but I do want to, make sure that the waivers and concessions that were requested by the applicant, of which there are six, that those are reviewed by city staff are these waivable or concessionable specifics. You know? They can be asked for, but the city does have an obligation to ensure that they are consistent with state law, and they are allowed and legitimate to be requested and and, more importantly, granted or not granted. I'd like to highlight the amenities. You know, the amenities, I think, at this point, you know, I do feel like Toll Brothers can do better.

I think the the amenities that was provided, the overlook bench, I just don't see that that really is an amenity for a high density residential project where, you know, typically, what we would expect to see in projects are things such as gathering places. We expect to see, you know, know, barbecues or benches or tot lots or dog parks or any of a number of things, and they're all specified in our objective design standards. A bench with a sign or an overlook, I don't consider that to really be a public community, and it's only one. So I would like the applicant to, like, think very hard about that. The wall, I think the wall deserves some more attention, especially the 20 foot wall that has no architectural element to it that we can tell.

If when it comes back, you know, that it's looked at very carefully and evaluated. As commissioner Villa said, you know, architecture architecture is often in the eyes of the holder, but we did hear a lot of comments about the architecture and how it does or does not fit in with the neighborhood. Part of our process on projects like this is the city actually has an architecture review board made up of professional trained architects. Projects such as this will go through the architecture review board, and none of us are architects up here. But we do trust that the feedback that they provide is generally well received by the developers.

You know, we've had very good luck luck with that. So, you know, I'm gonna assume that the ARB will be one of the steps in the process. It is worth it to us to consume one of our five public hearings to have the architects look at this. And just since we're doing education, we're only allowed five public hearings to get through these things. You know?

And one of them is left for the city council, and so that leaves it four at the planning commission. And the planning commission has actually delegated one of our four public hearings to the ARB. So I'm pretty sure you're all keyed into this this project, and you'll hear and get to see public notices when we have meetings. So do continue to show up and attend. We obviously heard about access, and I'm sure that's you know, everybody it has that up here on our mind.

Everybody is thinking about fire and fire trucks and public right away and walking and all those things. I have no doubt that those will be, you know, looked at. The the project is difficult. I actually walked up there. You know, I've been in the I've been here in San Ramon since when Bollinger stopped at Clubsport as well, you know, and I'm on the West Side. I've been to ClubSport. I've never been to the tennis courts. So I did go to the tennis courts, and it's it's a tough project. It's a tough property. You know?

And I think we need to, you know, really you know? And I think the good side of this is is Toll Brothers does have a good reputation in the city of San Ramon. They are a good builder. They are a good developer, and I I do trust that they're gonna work with the neighbors, work with the city, work with all the agencies to put together a good project. So there's quite a bit of work to do, you know, between now and then.

And should you decide to move forward, we expect to see, you know, a lot more of the details. And, again, I wanna reiterate, we do appreciate coming early. It's not always easy to come here when you have to say, I don't know. You know, it's not to be developed yet, but that's by design. We do want you to come early because we've had we've had projects that have come before us about this kind of place in the timeline, and the applicant has spent significant time, money, and energy to build a project that there is no possibility to change. So, you know, while it feels like, you know, we're sort of being kind of negative on this, I think you expect it. So thank you for coming out. We do appreciate that. And I'll just close with, again, my appreciation for everybody coming here tonight, giving us your feedback. It does help.

It really does. You know? And I think staff and the applicant have a significant amount of work. We probably won't see this for some amount of time. Just so you know, there's not gonna be another meeting in two weeks. I can guarantee that much. So I'll stop right there and turn to staff and see if you have any clarifying questions for what you heard tonight, or do you have enough to move forward? Okay. You're good? Okay. Thank you. I know you've been I know both of you have been sitting there taking notes pretty diligently, and we're all on we're all on all being recorded. So trust me, the staff does go back and rewatch these things. So with that, I think we can close this public workshop at this phase. Thank you again for coming.

We have a little bit more business. We can take you're welcome to stay, or sometimes people just leave at this point. You know? But we'll we'll take we'll give it as people start getting up, we'll give a minute before we get the next update from staff.

Have a couple

more things. We'll yeah. Yeah. K. Okay.

The picture of the building. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. We appreciate it.

Thank thank you all for coming out tonight. Okay. Okay. At this point, it's it's the second part of commission liaison, committee meetings, and staff reports. Has anybody had a committee liaison to share any details?

I'm looking forward for the transportation committee meeting.

Thursday. That's first. So Okay. And

I I was out of town during the parks meeting, so I'll catch up on the next one.

Okay. Okay. And the architecture review board meeting, did their last meeting, I think they were actually, I forget what we talked about the last meeting. I think it must have been before, but I apologize for that. You know? I'll turn to staff with updates on future meetings. Yeah. This

point in time, it looks like October 7 will likely be canceled. We have several projects that are pending, landing on a specific calendar date. And so, as things shift around a little bit, we'll try and finalize that. But, at this moment in time, it looks like the items we had for the seventh have kicked out to a later meeting.

Great. Thank you for that. Okay. If we have no other comments or questions for staff or anything to share, I think

Just one thing, though. So many of them I I know this is gonna be part of public record. So I know many neighboring HOA members, they came out for the meeting. And it was a good education that all of the commissioners have provided to the audience as well. So I feel that it was a good meeting where we could say what is the limitation of the planning commission and the city staff itself. So that I felt is pretty good.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Any other okay. Why don't we go ahead and adjourn the meeting for tonight? Thank you all, and we'll adjourn