Zoning Board of Adjustment - Regular Meeting

Uh please take notice that the Milstone uh township zoning board of adjustment a reorganization and first regular meeting of 2026 has been scheduled for Wednesday, January 28, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. at the municipal meeting room 2:15 Milstone Road Milstone Touch, New Jersey. Formal action may be taken. Um so I'm going to call the meeting uh in order. Uh first thing we're going to do is we have a reading of the public notice. Uh, in accordance with chapter 231 PL1975, the open public meetings act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided as required, specifying the time and location which such notice is being sent to the Aspbury Park Press and the Times of Trenton, posted on the municipal public notice meeting bulletin board and filed with the township clerk.

Okay. Now we'll stand for a pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence for those who have fought for our country and has served and has served. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all you Danielle we have a roll call chairman excuse me Mr. M here Mr. Mr. Barmas here, Mr. Katigan here, Mr. Lamrose here, Mr. Singh here.

And for the record, Mr. Ara, Mr. Ferrara, and Mr. are absent today. We do have five members and do Okay. Um, first thing on our agenda is election of officers. Do we have any nominations for chairman for the 2026 year? I nominate Mr. Moss. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate that. Is there uh any other nominations? Is there a second on that nomination? I'll second it. We have a roll call. Mr. Baramus? Yes. Mr. Katigan? Yes. Mr. Lamros? Yes. Mr. Senhoff? Yes. And Mr. Ma, do you accept? Yes.

I I now hand over the meeting back to you, Mr. Chairman. I really wanted to say no, but And if I may, um, just to put on record, um, Mr. Lamrose was um sworn in for his oath of office for his next four-year term tonight. So he is eligible in his day. Thank you for another four years. Thank you very much. Great. Four more years. Thank you. Four more years. Good luck. Okay. All right. We are now going to elect our vice chair. I will take the initiative and elect Mr. Steve. Thank you. Turn the favor for you. I'll second. Thank you, Chairman Mustin.

Yes. Mr. Katigan. Yes. Mr. Lamrose. Yes. Mr. Shinha. Yes. And Mr. Bar. 22 years later. Sure. I'll do it again. Well, thank you for your service. Appreciate it. 22 22. We're old. All about the same except me. All right. Unfortunately, you have to bear with us for a few moments while we do our reorg. Uh, first up is for our board attorney for professional legal services. We had some We had one we only had one for for attorney, right? Thank you. Nobody wanted your job, Greg. I think I'm the only one that's applied for this job for the last 22 years.

So, with that, we are going to accept Mr. Vela as our zoning board attorney. The motion. And yeah, I'll make the motion to Anybody want to second? I'll make the second. Thank you. Chairman Mustin, yes. Vice Chairman Barthamus. Yes. Mr. Katigan. Yes. Mr. Lambro. Yes. Mr. Singh. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Appreciate it, Greg. Thank you. Love coming here. All right. Next up is our board engineer. We had a couple. We had Matt. We had your firm Hakian. We also had CME and I think it was French and Purllo was one of the others. Yeah. Yeah. They're all after budget.

That's right. But um Mr. Chairman, we did review the the bids that came in. Our office did review them. Um Matt, as always, has been favorable in in his RFQ that he submitted. Pricewise, he's for 22 years also. Oh, was the cheapest one. He was the cheapest one. So, okay. 22 years old. 22. 22 as well. I started when I was 18. So, all right. I will make a motion to approve if anybody wants to. Second. Thank you. Chairman Mson. Yes. Vice Chairman Barmas. Yes. Mr. Catigan. Yes. Mr. Lambro. Yes. Mr. Yes. Thank you very much.

Thank you again, Matt. Appreciate your years of service. Okay, next up we have our board planner. We also had a few submitts and we had selected MJ planning was our um Lois did for the proposal. Um we also had another one for CME and approval. Um, so we have the board there. Um, we did review everything. Everything's in place with discussions. Okay. I will make the motion to approve MJ planning.

MJ planning. Thank you. I'll second. Thank you, Steve. Chairman Mustin. Yes. Vice Chairman Barmus. Yes. Mr. Katigan. Yes. Mr. Lamrose. Yes. Mr. Sanhill. Yes. I must Thanks again. It's really good to be back. I can't even explain. So 22 years. 22 years. Yeah. I'm that I won't tell you where I was 22 years ago. It's good to have you back. All right. Now, our tree expert is on an as needed basis. Correct.

Yes. And we only have one um RFQ submitted um or response to RFQ submitted and it was from C Associates Shiro and she has worked with us in the past. Yep. Yeah. We only when there's issues that we need to refer to her uh does she build the escrow like in the present application. So right. Okay. I will make a motion to approve CME Associates for our tree expert. I'll second. Thank you. Mosman. Yes. Mr. Bart, excuse me. Vice Bartman. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Lamrose. Yes. Mr. Yes.

All right. Next up is the best person in the room for our board secretary. And we are going to reelect, Miss Danielle Sims. I'm already on the table. Yeah. So, I will make a motion to approve. Daniel, we appreciate all your hard work and service. I'll second it 100%. Thank you. I'll second it for you. Thank you, Mr. Welcome. And thank you for the confidence. Chairman, yes. Vice Chairman Baramus, yes. Mr. Catan, yes. Mr. Lamros, yes. Mr. Son, yes. Thank you all.

Okay. All right. Now, we have our 2026 meeting schedule. Do I have to read every date or could we just reference the dates that are posted? The dates that are posted in the resolution uh are are signific. So I will make a motion to approve the dates as listed. But they came second meeting. Thanks.

Before I do that, just to note, um the meetings are all scheduled for Wednesdays. Um the fourth Wednesday of the month at 7:30 p.m. with the exception of November and December due to the holiday season. We always end up on Thanksgiving eve and usually around the week of Christmas. So we do have those on the second Thursday of the month for November and December. And we always have problems there because usually all my meetings in December get put in the first two weeks. But we'll deal with that in 11 months. Then you get the next two weeks off. Exactly. Good. Chairman M. Yes. Chairman. Yes. Mr. Catigan. Yes. Mr. Lambos. Yes. Mr. Yes.

Okay. So before we move on to our approval of our minutes, is there any public comment for any matter that's not on the agenda for this evening? Seeing no one. Great. We will move on. Okay. We have approval of minutes from November 13th. Believe these all came out. Everybody had an opportunity to kind of review them. this one here. Any questions about that? Nope. Anybody have any questions, comments, concerns? Good to go. Approve. Transfer will be attached to I'll make a motion to approve them.

Thank you, Steve. I'll second. Thank you, Chairman. M. Yes. Mr. Katigan. Yes. Mr. Lamrose. Yes. Mr. Snob. Yes. Thank you, everyone. Okay, we have a resolution for JCPNL.

Before we vote on it, I just want to explain it to the board cuz I assume everyone's here for the JCPL application, correct? Okay. So, this resolution that we're adopting has nothing, it has something to do with the application, but nothing of merit and this this resolution does not approve the application. as part of any application um they we have a list of items that they have to provide before they get to this hearing um which will be tonight. uh a lot of them are sometimes appable, sometimes not applicable. And if things are not appable, they're allowed to ask for a waiver saying, "Hey, I don't need to submit. Let me not submit it. I want to proceed to the hearing." So, there was a bunch of items that they asked for us not to submit for this hearing that the board and their professional determined are not material for an informed decision on the application. That's what that is. Now, that resolution also has a condition that says if during the actual hearing, which you'll hear in a little bit, we say, "Hey, you know that thing we said you didn't have to present, we want it." Okay? So, that's what that resolution is. Don't think of it that we approve the application, prejudge the applications. Has nothing to do with the application other than it gets them before the board for a public hearing. Okay? So, that resolution came out. Uh there's a couple uh waiverss that were re included that I missed. Um if there's no other questions or comments, need a motion and second to moralize the waiver resolution.

Thank you for the explanation, Greg. Cuz I know everyone would say, "What do you mean you already approved it?" Yeah. Okay. So for the resolution for the waiverss, anybody want to make motion to approve? If there's no question, comments, we can move on to our hearing for tonight. I'll make a motion. Thank you. I'll second. Thank you. Chairman L. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Lampro. Yes. Mr. S. Yes. Thank you. And last on our list for resolutions is our bridge asset management.

That resolution also came out. That was the the denial of the appeal from the zoning officer uh for determination that a truck terminal was still permitted on the site. Uh that resolution came out. We need a motion to secoralize that affirmation of the zoning officer determination. I'll make it. I'll second it. Lost. Yes. Mr. Cigan. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Okay. Thank you everyone for your patience. Appreciate that. Okay. Now we can move to our first application and our only application for tonight for JCPNL.

All right. Uh for for the record,

I reviewed notice to join property owners an affidavit of publication which was very extensive. Uh they are in order the board has jurisdiction to hear this matter. As the board does in its normal course, we premark certain exhibits which I'll read into the record as follows. A1 jurisdictional notice package. A2 application checklist administrative forms. A3 outside agency approvals. A4 sample before and after renderings of view looking west northwest from Millstone Road uh to south of Perennial Road. One page. A5 threatened endangered species report dated July 2025 prepared by Dubis and Associates. A6 A6 environmental impact statement dated July 25 prepared by Dubo which I'm probably butchering it and associates. A7, Milstone Township of Easements for each of the affected properties. A8 overall aerial map uh dated 714 2025 prepared by Boswell Engineering. A9 tree survey summary and maps dated 1125204 prepared by Dubo and Associates. A10 soil erosion and sediment control plan consisting of 23 pages dated 421 2025 prepared by Langden Engineering. A1 preliminary and final major site plan and variance plan uh consisting of 43 sheets dated 728 2025 prepared by Boswell Engineering. A12 rideway survey consisting of 26 sheets dated 7-Eleven 2025 prepared by Langden Engineering. A13 sample 2 before and after renderings looking west northwest from Milstone Road uh to south of Perennial Road of one page. Board has also marked their own exhibits uh which will mark as ZB1 which is the completeness determination granted by the zoning board on November 13th 20125. ZB2 engineering and planning

review dated 1120 2025. ZB3 um LTE review dated 1126 and ZB4 environmental commission and shade tree joint report uh prepared dated 112025. course counselor, you can introduce any other evidence you deem necessary appropriate for your application. For members of the public, I just read a whole list of them. If uh all those documents I referenced are on our website. So if you want to go see him after, that's where they all are. So council, please enter your appearance and uh you may proceed. Thank you, Mr. Bella. Benjamin Nadell, the partner with the law firm Saul Ewing appearing on behalf of the applicant Jersey Central Power and Light Company. The application before you this evening is for preliminary and final major site plan approval along with devariance relief. It is in support of the New Jersey Clean Energy Corridor Project, also known as the NJCEC project. As you will hear from JCPNL's professionals in a few minutes, this project consists of critical utility infrastructure improvements and the overall project spans through several municipalities and four counties including Mammoth, Mercer, Ocean, and Middle Sex. The project has been very successful. JCPNL has secured approvals from several municipalities within the last year, including Freehold, Jackson, Howell, Lakewood, and East Windsor. With the millstone portion of the project, JCPNL is proposing to replace 37 steel lattice towers and six wooden structures with new steel structures on concrete foundations. Specifically, JCPNL seeks to install 41 new structures consisting of 48 steel poles on concrete foundations along an approximately 6 milei stretch of the existing corridor. The new structures are proposed to have heights ranging from 62 ft to approximately 197 ft. All of the

proposed work will occur within JCPNL's existing right of way. There is no condemnation proposed. There's no eminent domain required. The project will be utilizing the existing corridor. The properties subject to this application encompass JCPNL's existing rightway and are located within the township's RUP rural preservation zone, the R80 rural residential zone, the R130 residential zone, the R170 rural environmental zone, and the highway commercial zone. Public utilities are not expressly permitted within the HC zone and are conditionally permitted within the RUP zone, the R170 zone, the R80 zone, and the R130 zone. The proposed structures exceed the maximum height in each zone. Accordingly, JCPNL is seeking D1 use variance relief, D3 conditional use variance relief and D6 height variance relief from the board this evening for our witnesses. First, we will present the testimony of Larry Josempa, First Energy's general manager of planning to explain the NJCEC project scope and purpose. We'll then have Gregory Brown, an engineer with Burns and McDonald. Greg is the transmission line engineer. Greg's going to discuss the design and details of the new steel structures proposed by this application. We'll then have Jeffrey Morris, an engineer with Boswell Engineering. Mr. Morris is the project site plan engineer to explain the new improvements and to address the comments we received in the review letters. We'll then have Amy Jones, the project's environmental consultant. Amy's with Dubo and Associates. Amy will provide an overview of the environmental permitting for this project. And finally, our professional planner, Christine Kafone, will discuss the variance relief being sought this evening by the applicant. So with that,

unless there are any questions for me, we'll go ahead and call our first witness. Mr. Chair, I say go right ahead. Thank you. Get this started.

Mr. Lawrence of Zmpa and members of the public, uh, you've heard the outline prepared by council. So, the process, the way it works is, if you've never been to one of these meetings, the uh witnesses are going to come testify. There'll be times where the board will interrupt, ask questions, um or may not ask questions. Uh they'll present all those four witnesses or whatever five they indicated. The board, all the members of public, we don't open it up to questions every witness because sometimes your question is three witnesses away because that's your concern. So, we let the applicant produce all their witnesses so you could hear everything. Okay? And then once they're done with their case, you'll be given an opportunity to ask any of their professionals who testify any questions you want. Just ask not to be repetitive. If same person keeps on asking the same question, you will also have an opportunity at the same time to give a statement to the board. You could say, "Hey, like it, don't like it. I want this change. Keep whatever." They'll have that opportunity. So, at no point we're going to just cut you down and say, "We're done. We don't need to hear from you." You'll have ample opportunity to ask any questions, set forth your concerns regarding the application. But for a lot of people that have never been to a board, I want you to be aware of how the process is going to work. I don't know if the the application is going to be completed tonight, so it may get done and carried to another meeting as well, but we'll get to that in the next couple hours. Okay. Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm the following testimony about to give is the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

I do. Please state your name for the record spelling your last name, sir. My name is Lawrence Josempa. H O Z E M P A.

Mr. Joseeppa, I'd like to have you qualified. Can you please provide the board with a brief overview of your educational background and work history, please?

Yes, I can. Uh I graduated from the Pennsylvania State University with a with a bachelor of science and electrical engineering and began working with Westpen Power Company after my graduation. First 14 years of my career I spent in the distribution planning organization doing planning for the distribution systems across the West Penn service territory. I then moved into the transmission planning group 26 years ago and have been doing transmission planning since then. So I planned for the Alagany energy system and then with the merger of first energy I began doing transmission planning for the first energy transmission system as well. I moved from a planning engineer to a consulting engineer to a supervisor of planning and then to a manager of transmission planning and now in my current position as general manager. I took this role in 2018. So altogether about 39 years of experience in the utility business most of that in the transmission side. And your licenses in New Jersey are still active and in good standing.

Yes, that is correct. I'd like to up we will accept your credentials. Thank you. So, Mr. Joseeppao, can you please provide the board with a general overview of the New Jersey Clean Energy Corridor project? So, in other words, why are we here this evening?

Yes. former governor, Governor Murphy, by executive order in 2018 directed the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities, the BPU, to develop an energy clean I'm sorry, develop a statewide clean energy plan. In 2019, the original master plan was released that included the development of 7,500 megawatts of offshore wind generation. In 2021, the New Jersey BPU coordinated with PJM, who is the regional transmission organization, to solicit project proposals to build the necessary transmission infrastructure to meet New Jersey's goal. JCPNL was awarded several projects, including the projects before the board this evening. Through that solicitation, why are these improvements being made to the existing transmission corridor? What is the purpose or the reason for these new improvements? Primarily these improvements were developed to ensure the reliable delivery of offshore wind generation. Because of that certain transmission infrastructure needed to be upgraded to make sure that delivery took place efficiently and effectively. So one of the reasons that the JCPNL project were selected by the BPU and PJM was the use of our existing transmission line corridors. We're upgrading the transmission lines on existing corridors. New rightaway will not be required and the environmental impact is limited to where a transmission line already exists. In addition, the improvements to the transmission infrastructure will not only facilitate integration of offshore wind, but it will also provide increased capacity to the overall transmission network. In other words, the benefits of the upgraded transmission lines are not unidirectional, but power will flow along the transmission lines in either direction depending upon the system needs at the time. And what type of benefits will be provided after the improvements are installed? And specifically, what are

the local benefits to Milstone? Primarily, the benefits to the township of Milstone will be the rebuilt transmission lines that will indirectly serve the residents in Milstone. There's about 10,000 residents of Milstone, I believe, and by our con JCP now a little bit over 4,000 meters in Milstone Township. And do these improvements only serve Milstone Township residents or do these upgrades also provide service to residents and businesses outside of Milstone? The improvements will support the transmission system in the area. So it's not just Milstone Township that will benefit, but the improvements will benefit other residents and businesses beyond Milstone Township.

What I'd like to have you do now is highlight some of the additional and very important benefits that will be provided by the CEC project. So, first, what are the local benefits to Milstone Township?

Well, to to build that up, let me start at the top and work my way down. It might be easier that way. So, we have a transmission system that more or less acts like the highways of the power. So, that delivers the power across a region. And then from the transmission system, it is stepped down to a local lower voltage transmission system. The in this area, it's the 34.5 KV transmission system. And that is what serves the substations that then step down to distribution voltage. So the distribution circuits are kind of more like the residential streets. So that goes to everybody's home, the distribution circuits, but that that's fed off the more major roads, the 345 KV system. And again coming from the highways is the transmission system. So by reinforcing the transmission system, we'll also support the lower voltage systems including the distribution system as well provide more reliable power.

Thank you. I understand you mentioned earlier offshore wind was initially the primary driver for the overall improvements that we have discussed this evening. However, you mentioned there are other benefits provided by the replacement of these structures. In other words, there are ancillary benefits. How does the increased capacity to the overall transmission network in this area provide ancillary benefits to the public? Well, again, because the the transmission system is more like a highway, you know, it provides that support that's necessary to get the power where it's needed during adverse system conditions as well as whenever there's high loads on the system. So, it will benefit this area because it'll provide that additional transmission capacity to feed into the lower voyage systems and then also provide support to the transmission systems around the area. And the the lines we're talking about this evening are actually, you know, what we would consider kind of reaching the end of their useful life. They've been in the ground for over 60 years. The wire has been in the air for over 60 years. So, they're kind of reaching the end of their useful life, and we'd be looking at an opportunity to replace all those facilities in the very near future, and it seems like a very opportune time to take advantage of what's going on with the uh energy master plan in New Jersey to get get that addressed. You had mentioned earlier one of your roles at First Energy is to plan for the future. Uh that you and your team are responsible for researching and determining how First Energy will comply with federal standards to ensure that there is sufficient reliable transmission of electric energy to central New Jersey in the years to come. How does the increased capacity to the overall transmission network provide a future benefit to the residents and businesses in Milstone? Well, the transmission line corridor, we're going to rebuild it with a a 500 KV circuit in it and the existing 230 KV circuit will be in the corridor as well. So, that's preparing for the future and building for the future. The federal standards for transmission reliability continue to increase and become more rigorous. We

expect that to continue to, you know, raise that bar on transmission reliability. So, we need to be prepared for that change. In addition, end user expectations are changing. I think everybody's more reliable on their electric today and they want it to be on all the time and uh things that are happening on the system as well like the development of the uh electric vehicles that you more people are using electric vehicles and now also with the transition from fossil fuel heating to electric heating so that electrification of building infrastructure is changing that increases the demand on the system as well. So this is providing that additional you know reliability resiliency and capacity that we need on the system. Thank you. And one more question. You mentioned JCPNL's adding a 500 KV circuit. How does this fit into the existing transmission system in Millstone, which is also next to East Windsor and Freehold?

Yeah. Um and that that's a very good question. and explain why the 500 KB circuit is so important in this particular area because right now the the substation in Freehold, which is Smithburg substation, is one of the major um sources into the 230 KV transmission system. It's fed from a a radial 500 KV line that comes out of a public service station. It actually serves down to the Smithburg substation. It's just a single line radial into Smithburg. East Windsor has a line that actually passes through it, but it also provides 230 KV support from the 500 KV system. So, this 500 KV line actually closes that link and completes the loop between those substations to make that 500 KV system more reliable to continue to support the 230 KV system, which is the really the backbone of what the local area needs.

Thank you, Mr. Hosea. That will conclude our direct testimony for Mr. I have a few questions. You mentioned the uh this was started because of the wind generation out in the ocean. I thought that was cancelled. Uh it is not cancelled. It is not cancelled, but you know, it's being delayed. Yes. But it's still going to happen.

Well, I I certainly hope it does. Um I can't say for sure that it is going to happen or I can't say that it's not. It's still a possibility. But regardless of whether offshore wind happens or not, we still have, you know, the facilities we're we're talking about tonight are actually part of the existing transmission network. So we're upgrading the existing transmission network to provide additional capacity. So whether offshore wind happens or not is is not really going to matter to these projects because we'll building be building capacity into the system and that capacity we're seeing increased load on the system will be there. So it'll provide that additional reliability and resiliency that we're looking for.

And you said several times you're increasing capacity. So the capacity to because there's more homes, there's more need. Is that what you mean by capacity? Yeah, it's load growth on the system that we deal with every day. You know, we're seeing, you know, you there's kind of an ongoing battle with the load between what's growing more quickly. You know, we see businesses developing. We see electrical vehicles coming. And we know that in New Jersey there's a particular initiative to remove fossil fuel heating from buildings and go to electric heating. So that's going to drive up the demand as well. So we see all the things all these things happening simultaneously. And so again the capacity is needed. We know that the future is going to just continue to grow with uh the electric demand.

And can you tell us capacity from going from what now to sort of what is planned? Is there a number? Is it 200 to 500? Is that what you're talking about? Well, the the that's the difference in the voltage of the the the lines. One will still be 230 KV and the other one will be 500 KV. Um I do not know what the capacity of those lines are off the top of my head. Um I I couldn't really quote you number more be able to handle more more cables more what what makes it more able to you know yeah the 230 KV will be uh higher capacity conductor than is out there today and of course the 500 KV being at a higher voltage will be able to handle more capacity as well but using the voltage

yeah you just have more more availability but the cables themselves are relatively the same sizes you know the one the old to new they you said they're getting replaced Right. The cables themselves. Yes. Yeah. Everything in that they bigger or they just the same. Well, they will they'll be bigger. They'll have more capacity. Okay. And again, you know, the the structures that are there today, you know, they're over 60 years old. And so, we would have to be doing upgrades in this corridor in the very near future. And so, you know, this is just a project we would have on the table, you know, probably in the next several years even without the new New Jersey offshore wind initiative. But, you know, we developed this project as part of that, but it's something that we needed to do anyway.

How many how many lines do you have now? And how many lines are you proposing on the towers? The same amount more just quantity. Okay. Well, it it's not Yeah, it's just a quantity question. Well, the there there's two ways to answer that question because when you say a line, to me, that's a circuit. But to some people that's the individual conductors. So are you talking about the individual conductors, the wires themselves or the circuits? I'm talking about the wires that go from one tower to the next. Right.

So if you look on the top diagram, which is the existing corridor, there's two wires at the very top of those towers. Those are static wires. They're there to shield the the transmission line from lightning. So there's two wires there. And then there's three wires on either side of the tower underneath that. So for a total of six transmission wires that actually carry current. So there's eight wires there. Now if you look at the bottom structures, you'll have the static wires will still be up on top of the tower. So those two will still be the same. And on one side of the tower, you'll have a 230 KV circuit. And I don't actually remember what the construction type is if that's more than one wire per phase or not. But on the 500 KV side, you actually have three wires per phase. So on and you'll have nine wires on that one side of the tower. But again, you'll have three bundles. So one bundle will be three wires and on top of that will be three wires and on top of that will be three wires. It'll look like a single wire for the most part, but it actually is made up of three separate wires. And again, I don't remember what the actual design is of the 230 KB side, but Mr. Brown when he's up here, he'll be able to answer that question. What's the expected uh EMR increase with these this additional voltage going through?

I'm sorry, I don't know what EMR is. And electromagnetic radiation. Okay. Emitted from the wires. Yeah. And again, that depends on how much current is passing through the line. Um there's all the electric field is due to the voltage. So obviously with the the 230 and the 500, it'll be different than it is today with just the 230 KV circuit.

So that expected electric field will change. Yes, I don't know what that will be but it it will change. Now the the magnetic field is depends on how much current is passing through the line at any particular time. So on a very light loaded day when there's not a lot of usage on the system that magnetic field will be very low. But if there's a heavy load on the system or there's you know something out of service and more power is flowing down this quarter would be it'll be higher. Now what that is again I don't know. I'm not an expert in that field but I just know that's how it changes. Will you have a witness that can comment on that, Mr. Ma? Uh, yes. I have a couple of questions. Thank you.

So, I um I wanted to ask the um the existing uh towers that are there um how long could they last if nothing was done at all? They last another 5 years, 50 years, 500 years. nothing was done at all.

Yeah. And and that's a good question. And we we obviously maintain our facilities. We go out there and do periodic inspections, but we know that when they reach this this age out in the elements, you know, not only the towers themselves, but all the hardware on that tower, you know, the conductors, there's all that stuff that is now prone to failure. And so we start seeing in what we call an increased maintenance trend. We're out there fixing things on a more regular basis. And it ends up being a lot of repairs. Same thing happens to your car. you can keep it running if you keep sinking enough money into it. You know, rebuild the motor, you know, rebuild the, you know, redoing all the brake lines, all that stuff. You can continue to keep it running. So, we're kind of at that stage now where we're seeing that trend increase and know, you know, we can go out basically buy a new car at this point and and save ourselves a lot of maintenance money and time. So the monopoles that you're proposing to install in in place of the lattice structures, what new technology is going to be on those that is different than what's on the lattice structures? What new technology that's not going to need maintenance and and occasional repairs? Well, I I I don't think by putting the new steel poles in, we're not trying to indicate that we'll never have to go out there and do anything, but the steel poles tend to last longer than the lattice towers. So, there is still an age to them that eventually they will age out and something will need to be done as well. You know, they're on concrete foundations and you obviously know concrete doesn't last forever either. So, there's all I mean, all that stuff eventually ages. Even the conductor will age at some point. So, how long that lasts, I don't know. But it'll be longer than the the lattice towers and obviously these lattice towers are already reaching the end of their life. Right.

So, while we're talking about transmission, you know, I' I've lived here for 30 years and I some of those run in our area where I live, but I can't really see if if there's maintenance vehicles out there, but I do know that we lose power sign, you know, frequently in Milstone Township all over town. And usually it's not because of these transmission lines. It's usually because of the lower the lower hanging stuff that's alongside the roadways and trees gets in it. So how you know that seems to be the reliability problem in millstone not so much these these don't I don't I don't ever see these having a big problem or even learning about these having a big problem. So, um, but I also wanted to ask if the executive order was, um, signed in 2018. It's 8 years later now. Is there is there a reason why it's taken so long to hurry up? Well, again, the executive order was signed in 2018. The energy master plan was released in 2019. And then these awards for this project were given to JCP now in 2021. So you know that that was 5 years ago. Now of course the projects that we're working on they take time to develop as well. You know we've got to get a lot of things in motion and we got to again like tonight we're seeking approval to do these things and as Mr. Nadell stated earlier we've already received approval in in many of the municipalities to start moving forward with these projects. But acquisition of material, time to engineer the projects, do all the, as

you'll hear from um Mrs. Jones later, you know, about the the permitting and everything that we're doing to get these projects moving. It just takes time to get there. And and that's why we our planning process when we're looking at transmission planning, we're looking 5 years out and beyond because it takes so long to get the things you need. You know, if we needed something tomorrow, it's not going to happen. We needed something next year, it's not going to happen. We can't we can't get things done that quickly. It just takes so long to do these big projects. So that's why we plan for the future. Right. So why why what's the relation between this system and the offshore wind generation, you know, electric generation from the wind projects offshore?

Well, when we did our planning analysis, assuming that there was going to be offshore wind, that amount of energy being injected on the coast has to make it into the rest of the transmission system. So we look at how that power is going to flow based on where the generation is coming into the system and where it is serving load elsewhere on the system to make sure that we can meet all the the federal standards to ensure reliability for the transmission system. So we run our full battery of analyses on all the different things we have to study to ensure we meet the standard with that assumption that there's offshore wind and then it's delivering that energy to load. that determined where we needed to make the transmission upgrades on the existing transmission system. Now, if you take offshore wind out of the equation, even considering the age of these facilities, we know that load is going to continue to grow in New Jersey, you know, we see it happening. So, we have to address that as well. So, we can we know that if these facilities, which are part of the existing network today, you know, that power doesn't it doesn't just flow one direction. You know, that transmission line doesn't really care which direction the power is flowing. it just has the capacity to deliver that power wherever it is needed. So in this case without offshore wind if there's load on the shore and the generation's onshore that'll provide that capacity to get that load that to serve the energy from the sources to that load on the shore. So it'll it'll support the continued growth of the the load in this area. So with all of the with all of the new energy efficient equipment that people have in their homes and that that is that is the only thing available for us to purchase now and all the new um um lower or more efficient lighting systems in the world. This didn't reduce all the this did not reduce the capacity or or the load on the system. It

absolutely did. Okay. It absolutely did. And that's why over the past probably maybe 20 25 years or so, load growth has been relatively flat. So basically, we've squeezed all the water out of the sponge at this point. And so now we need to start, you know, looking at that load growth coming back, especially as people now, you know, we can continue to drive gasoline powered vehicles and then we don't have to worry about charging electric vehicles. We can continue to use oil or natural gas to heat our homes and we won't have to worry about being able to provide electric service to electric heated homes, but that's not the direction we're going. You know, we're getting more electric vehicles. That's driving demand. That's driving usage. Same thing with you start, you know, removing gas heat and oil heat from homes. That adds electric demand to the system. We have to meet that need. We're also seeing a lot of businesses start to grow here in New Jersey. Even data centers that, you know, that's that's a huge amount of load that comes on the system in these large blocks we have to be able to serve. So, I wanted I don't know if this is the rightness to ask about infrastructure and the design of the poles and and stuff like that. Is that something that you're going to have your engineer present?

Mr. Brown, our next witness, will talk about the design of the new structures. Okay. So, I don't know who we asked this question to, but we do have a lot of outages in Milstone Township, and I think that's what really needs to be addressed by G JCPNL. I mean, if you know, this is significant infrastructure going into our town and it would be nice if if there was a proposal to put all those troubled areas underground so they're not troubled anymore. Um, that could that could actually help the town, but there's no proposal for that here.

Uh, we're only talking about the transmission infrastructure this evening. Um I know you know JCPN now does have several initiatives underway to improve the distribution circuit reliability. I don't know if they have anything planned in this area or not but I mean my team works closely with the JCPNL distribution team. We have several projects underway to uh improve the reliability for residential customers in several areas. Again I don't know if Milstone's on that list right now or not but you we those are things we do look at. We do have concern about that. We work hand inand with them to make sure that we can obviously distribution is part of the solution but also transmission is part of that solution to make sure we can provide adequate supply to the distribution system.

Okay. So just just to follow up what Steve was saying. So aside from the improved infrastructure to increase the capacity there, you don't know or not aware of any provisions to do any additional vegetation management to clear the lines that actually serve the community that are always the trouble points in this town. Yeah. Um again, I'm on the transmission side of the business. I work me and my team work with the distribution side of the business, but I do not know what their specific plans are for, you know, improving reliability particularly in Milstone. Okay. And I guess the next witness will answer questions as far as the tower structures and foundations.

That's that's what we're going to get. As far as the wires, we're looking at your existing and proposed. Looks like we're going from approximately six wires or so, plus or minus to about 12. Is that accurate? Should we have Greg confirm? Next, we're going to have Greg, our next witness, confirm that. Fair enough. Uh, okay. Before we let him sit down, Mr. Nadal, just real quick, I know you indicated to me previously you flew in a couple witnesses. Is he one of them? Uh, he may have drove instead of flew, but he came he came from far away. How far did you come from, sir? Western Pennsylvania. That's not far. Oh, west. Pittsburgh.

How far west? Ju just I'm just east of Pittsburgh. Okay, that's far west. Okay. No, my my only point was I knew you had a couple of witnesses that have a long way to get here. So, and I see a ton of public here and maybe this doesn't finish tonight. So, you know, let's get to those witnesses and we may potentially go out of order and allow the public to ask questions of these witnesses that drove 10 hours to get here or flew in. So, maybe they don't have to come back, but at least give the public the opportunity to ask them questions at this time if we're not going to be finished tonight.

So, this might actually work out really well cuz Mr. Josempa and Mr. Brown who's up next are the two who came from far away and our other witnesses um they're more local. So if I I agree. Let's get there. Let's All right. Let's let's get your next witness then we'll question Sure. How many towers are in this line all together existing? Mr. Brown coming up next. We're not replacing all of them, right? With just some of them. All of them. Um I saw some plans some tower was still there plans I think the opening was there's 37 lattice six wood there's going to be new 41 48 steel poles so

I remember seeing the drawing show some of the towers I think okay we're going to get into that next so I do this was the one more question I don't know if it's for this witness. Sure. So the lines that are there now, do you know what the approximate diameter of that line is? Those lines I I do not know off the top of my head. Question for your next Mr. Brown may know that. Is that a question for Mr. Brown? I believe so. Then I'll wait for Mr. Right.

Would you be able to speak to project phasing in terms of construction and and if uh residents or the broader region can expect disruptions in in service during that time period? Mr. Morris will speak to that. Mr. Morris. Okay. Thank you. I I'm the need guy. Why do we need it? Mr. Josemp is here to tell the story, but it's part of the story. Anybody else got Okay, good. Thank you, Mr. Jose. We'll call our next witness, uh, Mr. Gregory Brown.

Sir, please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm the following testimony about gives the whole truth, nothing but truth? I do. See, please state your name for the record. Spell your last name, sir. Gregory Brown. B R O W N. Um, Mr. Brown, can you please provide the board uh with a brief overview of your credentials and your current employment?

Yes. Uh, went to Missouri State University. Uh, got my civil engineering degree. Um, from there got hired at Burns and McDonald. Have worked in transmission line uh engineering for over 12 years there. Um, have my professional engineering license in five states, one of them being New Jersey. It is current and active. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Appreciate it. We will accept your PE credentials.

Thank you. So, Mr. Brown, uh we have uh the exhibit in front of us, which for the record is A13. Um did you and your staff uh prepare this exhibit in preparation of tonight's hearing? Yes. Thank you. and referring to the exhibit, can you please provide the board with an overview of the transmission line corridor along with an overview of the existing infrastructure along the transmission line corridor?

Yes, certainly. Um, so starting uh with the top there, that is the existing infrastructure. Um, and as was noted earlier, there is 37 existing glass towers, six wood H frames, and those H frames are are two poles each, so a total of 12 wood poles. Those will all be removed. Um, the average height across those structures is 119 ft and they were installed 1959. Um, our proposed structures, uh, there are 41 structures, which consists of 48 poles because some of those are multi-pole structures. Um, our average height on the new poles is 174 ft and that will be uh all built within the existing 180T rideway. Um, we will center it in the rightway 90 ft from edge to edge. So, the photo simulation that's been created uh that kind of gives you a better picture of of what's out there versus what it will look like. Um so as as we kind of talked about earlier there is currently uh one circuit that is out there. Uh it is built in as a six wire configuration uh which simply means there's there's six wires instead of the normal three that would be on a on a double circuit line. However, that's just one circuit. So we're taking that circuit with the new infrastructure and moving that circuit to one side. So there's six wires, six conductors out there now. those will be moved over to one side. So there will still be six um six wires on that side as the 230 KV line. Uh and as Mr. Ozmpa stated, the new 500 KV line that will be installed will be three conductors per phase each. So there'll be a total of nine conductors on the other side.

When you say the word conductors for the public and non-PEs, do you mean physical wires? Yes. Those are those are the wires that will transmit the electricity. Okay. There's also the static. I just want to make clear what you're talking about. Yep. Okay. So, you're going from six to 15. That's correct. And just to Mr. Joseamp's point previously, some of those wires are going to be bundled together. So, they'll be uh a thicker diameter than what we're seeing today, but all in one group.

So, they they will be bundled. Uh, so like I said, so since there's six out there now, they will be moved over. They'll be bundled two, two, two, and two. And then on the 500 KV side, they are bundled as a three group of three.

Yep. The the 230 KV wires are the same diameter. So there it's 1.5 in. Uh, it will those that diameter will remain the same. Um, and then the 500 KV uh diameter is actually 1.345 in. Um but there's three of them. So yeah, there's a a higher capacity there. Um so as I mentioned, uh the structures do have to get taller because of that 500 KV circuit that is being installed. Um because like the existing shows, it's they're stacked vertically on top of each other. And so in order for the 500 KV to uh remain safe, it must maintain 38 ft distance from each conductor uh vertically. So do a little pointer here. So we have here and here. Both of those areas must maintain 38 ft.

Can you explain what 38 ft to safety means? Yeah. So in for we don't want the wires to get too close to to each other to where they'll arc and flash. And so that 38 ft maintains that electrical clearance distance for a number of weather conditions. So you mean there's flap in the breeze, that kind of thing that they hit each other. That's what you're trying to avoid.

There's there's wind. There's also ice. Uh there's ice jumping. Uh so a lot of times a wire can have ice and then the one below it can have ice, but then that may fall off. And so there's there's differences um in the sag across the line. So we have spans that range that can be over 1,000 ft. And so the sag is up to 40 or 50 ft in those lines. And so if you have just any variation, you know, we're trying to we we want to make sure that there is safe electrical clearance there. And again for layman people is something like the three wires that come into your house is three different potentials. Each one is has a different potential. They all the same potential. I'm I'm trying to understand like if they touch what's going to happen will they is hot to ground kind of thing.

No, those all Yeah, all three conductor wires are are hot. So yeah, we they they will flash if they if they come in contact but they're both the same they're all the same potential. So what are they what's jumping if it's the same potential electrical potential? Uh that's not as I'm not electrical engineer so it's probably not my yeah my strong suit but there are different different phases. phases. All right. So that there is a difference between each bundle in phase. Okay. Thank you. So I assume the 38T separation requirement there's a factor of safety built into that.

There is there's yeah there's a factor of safety above uh for a lot of different reasons. One of them just unknowns of of weather and and construction and that sort of thing. And so also we'll continue just with um I mentioned the 38 ft conductor to conductor. There's also a PGM requirement for shielding. So that's that static wire that is on top of the structure. Uh so we have to have 26 ft from that static wire to the conductor below it. Um and that just protects it from any lightning strikes. Um and then as I mentioned we have could have up to 40 to 50 ft of sag because of how long these bands are. Um and with uh just a a heavy temp a high temperature or a heavy ice load uh we can have a a great amount of sag and then we have to maintain 36 ft of ground clearance at the lowest point of the conductor. And so adding all those things up as well as just uneven terrain in the area that's why these structures need to get um to that 174 average height.

I got another just quick general question for you with the separation. Is there any minimum separation distance required for let's say a billboard that may be existing in the rightway? Yes. Yeah. So, anything that's out there uh any any building, billboard, fence, we're checking clearances to all that. Um is there a fixed number for that? 10 ft, 20 ft, 50 ft. So, for the 500 KV for uh to a to a building or billboard, it's 20 ft of clearance. Um, and that's checked to a number of weather cases including high wind and ice as well.

Thank you. Appreciate the clarification. It was more for uh another application that came up. We also have couple of uh these towers that have uh AT&T or Verizon have their cables on that. I understand that's going to be gone. Yes, that is correct. Mr. Morris. We'll talk more about that. But we don't have those here anymore. This new poles cannot have cable. Yeah. For for this project, we're not planning to have those on there. So, we have to find some other places. When you say this project,

you know, we've for the 20 plus years that I've been doing this, we've always heard that you can't put cell towers on uh these these poles. And now if you drive down the turnpike, you see them on poles and there are on poles here. When you say not on this project, is are you saying that because of you're going to the higher voltage? And I'm being very generic with that, that that would interfere for whatever your reasons, whether it's safety, durability, um, operational, those cell towers would be affected by the new high voltage wire. Or, you know what, we just don't want them on our poles anymore.

So, M Mr. Morris, our site plan engineer, has the answer about cellular. I know I don't mean to keep saying our but um Mr. Brown is uh the engineer who designed the the new structures and um ready to testify about the structures. Okay. Well, put that with Yes. Mr. Mr. Morris will explain what's happening with the uh antennas. So, okay. I'm sorry. No, no. Seems like you had a question. No, I was going to tell him to continue, but if you have a question, please. Okay. I do. So

leave no that's what I thought. Okay. The transmission lines that exist now I wanted to ask earlier what is the diameter of the existing transmission lines that are in Milstone now the diameter of the conductor. Yeah. Approximate diameter of that conductor. 1.5 in. Okay. And what is the diameter of the proposed conductor? for that same circuit that 230 KV it is the same size so it's 1.5 in the proposed circuit whatever you're proposing now it's going to be the same size K the same size conductor of that 230 KV circuit correct yes

what about the 5 KV circuit that you've been talking that your team's been talking about yeah the 500 KV circuit uh it's actually 1.345 in uh but there's yeah there's three wires per phase okay per per bundle. Correct. Yeah. So, yeah. So, so we're looking at three times the size of the cabling that the naked eye can see through the air from a distance or from close up. Correct. Be 4 in in diameter almost. So, they're they're they're spaced u apart to to help m because they can't be right on top of each other as well. So,

36 ft, right? each each phase here. So, as you can kind of see, they have, you know, spacers between them. Um, so that's 18 in of of space between each of those wires. So, they're not So, so they're not really bundled as we use the term bundle, right? Cuz they're not touching it. They're not touching it. They're suspended. They're suspended with an 18 inch di roughly diameter, let's call it. Yeah. You you actually have a spanner in there that's keeping the three the three wires apart. Yes. For the entire run.

Y. So now that so that the visual experience that you see today is one and a half inches and the visual experience that being that's being proposed is three of those in held held held apart by let's say a spider that has arms on it that's holding them apart, right? Yes, that's correct. Okay. And how many of those runs will there be on each you know down the corridor? 15. So when you say runs there's three bundled units. There's three. Yep. Three. Correct. So on the

or there will be Yep. So each of the different the three levels of conductor. Yep. So will be three and then on the other side there will be the two wires and they have to be 38 ft apart.

Yep. On the 500 KV. Correct. Yep. To continue. You can continue Mr. Brown. So I do I do have a few more questions. So what what would happen if nothing is done to the current infrastructure in Milstone Township? What would what would happen if you know you weren't here tonight and it just existed the way it was is now from uh I guess from a civil engineering standpoint. I may not be the best person to answer this. Um, but as Mr. Ozmpa stated, um, probably the biggest thing, um, on my side is that that nearing the end of useful life. As I, as I mentioned, these structures were installed in 1959, so they've been out there for quite a long time. Um, so replacing them um, is is of, you know, a great interest because of of reliability. Um and so the added benefit is you know now add that 500 KV circuit uh to increase the capacity as well.

So somebody testified that these lines have been here since when 1959 1959 Yep. Where are the wooden structures that are holding these lines in Milstone? Uh they they're six wooden structures. They're probably poles, right? Yeah, correct. They're Yep. six wood wood poles. They are at the the east side of Milstone close to close to the Smithburg substation.

Okay. So based on the current storm we or the previous storm we just had with a lot of wind, rain, ice, uh if we get that half inch ice buildup, uh or larger than/ inch ice, the capacity of the towers potentially can't handle it. Yeah, I can't say what the existing towers are designed for. the the the new steel poles um are certainly designed to a stricter standard uh than they were and and yeah, that goes beyond that that 1/2 in ice as well as uh up to 100 mph wind is what we designed the new steel poles for.

So, I got a follow-up question about height. So, if your lowest conductors should be 36 feet off the ground or off the grade, right? Um, and you need 38 feet between each of the conductors to be safe. Correct. That adds up to a total of 150 ft, which is almost similar to what we have there now. What's in Milstone now? And I understand that the topography changes in Milstone, but when you when you put 150 foot pole at a lower level in Millstone and 150 ft pole in a higher level in Milstone, can't can't the lines just follow the poles and keep with those with those height standards that I did that I just called out. So the the last missing piece of that is that last 26 ft that I talked about that we need to maintain from that top conductor to the static wire. So that's this little bit up here at the top. Um that's to protect the lines from a lightning strike. So if you add that, that gets you up to that 174 ft that I talked about. So what what is protecting the lights from a lightning strike today?

There there is currently a static wire up there as well. Uh but it but as at a 230 KV voltage the shielding what we call the shielding angle which is how far horizontally it can be from you know a conductors here. How far can that static wire be horizontally away from that conductor? It doesn't have to be as strict on a 230 KV. Uh but on the 500 KV it needs to be over the top of it and and because of that needs to maintain a higher clearance as well because it's a higher voltage. So that gets you 26 ft as opposed to a 20 ft that the 230 KV has out there now. So the height is really about the 500 KV.

That's correct. Height changes. Yeah. Not the ex not 230 on the one side. Yeah. That's the main driver. the 500 KB for because we're kind of looking as a macro, right? Because you're just looking at Milstone, but obviously this line is goes, you know, multiple counties. Where is the 500 line starting at? And where is that?

Is that at a source of electricity? Where is it the new 500 start and where does it end? Is that an answer question? you can answer because that's where you're putting in a new one that's causing all this. What is like the beginning and end of it? Like, hey, we're putting it for from this to this because so we have the full story rather than just look at a a slice of the pizza, which doesn't give us the the full picture of what what's going on.

So, it's going from I'll give you just a small small slice of that pizza. I can't talk to the whole big picture, but East Windsor substation to Smithburg substation. And so, yeah, that's those are on the two, you know, adjacent townships to Milstone. No, no, no. Where is it? Like, yeah, that's for this project. Outside of that, I'm I'm not That's fair. What Greg is saying is that's a Mr. Josempa question that we can we can have Mr. Josempa answer. Well, maybe because I think that's important. Mr. Josempa, could you answer that question? Is this

He's here. He's there. Could you come up to Mike real quick? So, so that the board gets an idea we're it's very clear that a lot of this is driven by not only that the existing structures are 60 plus years old. Okay. Um but this new new 500 KB line, right? Since it's new, where is it beginning and where is it ending? Well, yeah. Is this my phone, by the way? Yeah. Okay. So you have to remember that you know that none of these lines operate. I apologize to maybe not it powers off by itself

but and if maybe I'm the question is wrong but maybe you could explain what what it's for.

No, I I understand the question but you none of the lines that we're talking about tonight operate in isolation. Everything we're talking about is part of a transmission network and that's the key. I mean, if we if we build a highway between East Windsor and Smithburg, but don't connect it to anything, we're not going to have very many cars on the highway, right? So, what we're doing is we're adding another part of the highway to an existing highway system. So, the 500 KV system isworked already. This link we're building actually closes the network in the P in a place where that network is now open. But the 500 KB line that it's connecting to, the one coming up from South Jersey, runs all the way up from South Jersey all the way up to the northern state line and and that's where it ends. So I mean there's there's a lot of 500 KV and then there's multiple connections that that then like a spiderweb go off of that. Right now Smithberg has just a one line coming from that one substation. It's public service substation. It goes to Smithburg. We're actually closing the loops and now Smithburg will be part of the network itself rather than hanging off of a single 500 KV line. So it's all part of a network but there I mean the generation in South Jersey feeds into that 500 KV system, you know, and so that's where that energy is coming from. But then there's other generation connected in Pennsylvania, you know, other generation connected elsewhere. It all feeds into that 500 KB system. So, so this is not a new line. It's a new line, but you're really connecting it to another 500 line that's out over here, and there's another 500 line here, and you're closing the gap. Is that fair? Is that fair to say? Rather than

cuz it gets confusing when you start taking, hey, we got this wind turbine thing and we're doing this and we're getting this Father's line. You would think that it would go directly to the wind turbine entrance, right? That's what was a little confusing. I just want to clear it up because you say it was all because of wind turbine. So, you would easily believe that the 500 would go to the wind turbine substation and you're running a line out of it. But that's not what you're doing. You're just kind of closing a loop between existing 500, running it down this quarter. Is that fair to say?

That is correct. All the transmission infrastructure that was designed just for the offshore wind connections is all on hold. So the only things that we're continuing to pursue are things that are part of the regular transmission network that would provide benefit to the system overall with or without the offshore wind. This is one of those projects, right? But if the offshore wind is the is the prime driver, you're you're trying to make all these connections and and and investing in all this infrastructure. What happens if the wind doesn't happen? Then you have a big upgraded system that doesn't have wind, right? That doesn't have the wind feeding it.

That is correct. But again, these are part of the existing transmission network. And as we just discussed, this is actually closing a link of the 500 KV system that is now open. It'll provide a more resilient and reliable system across this area between the 500 KV and the 230 KV upgrades that we're making. That's part of the existing network. And again the power can flow any direction on these facilities. So wherever the the power is needed that's where it will flow. And so you know I mean you know system conditions as generation changes as load changes as transmission elements fail and go out of service or we're doing maintenance on something this will provide that additional pathway for power to flow where it's need. So basically create some redundancy in case you something fails over here you can redirect it to refeed the grid.

Correct. Okay question. So this could help Milstone on power outages if if a source of our power outage is something that happened in East Windsor or Freehold. This could help then you can change around where the power is coming into to Milstone. Is that correct? Yeah. And again it's we have layers of network. We have a 500 KB network, the 230 KB network and the 345 KB network. So all those network systems operate together. So yeah, we're enhancing that network's capability. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Brown, we've uh we've concluded Mr. Brown's direct testimony.

Oh, okay. Just I got a general question for you with regard to the towers that are going up. Are they doing like spread footings or are they going to be drilling quesons for each of the new towers? Yeah, they will be concrete drilled shafts. Drilled shafts. Okay. There's enough clearance in the rightway to get that down the center to get the get a drill rig in there. Yeah, horizontally. So, yeah, we we the easement that's currently ex that JCP.

Yeah, I know you have 180 foot easement kind of a rightway. Uh, but when you're going to put in that drill rig to start drilling your case on, is there enough clearance where that's going to drill your shaft to your wires because that's going to be elevated up? Oh, the to the existing Yes. to the to the existing circuit because I'm assuming these new poles are going to be replacing the the towers but kind of offset where their existing towers are.

Yeah, that's correct. For the most part, there are there are instances where we go back in a very similar location. Um so um they will have to maintain clearance if if there's any work done that's not when those lines are out of service. Um but yeah there they are generally can be taken out of service you know to do some of that work. Okay.

So we have multiple engineers so I don't know whom to ask certain questions but I'm going to ask them as we're going along but All right. So we have 180 foot wide uh right of way correct and the existing infrastructure stands where within that 180 foot wide right away not the center the existing infrastructure where does it stand in that 180 foot ride away? Yeah. So it it's currently um 75 ft from one edge and 105 ft from the other edge. Okay. Um, and so yeah, we're going to go back and center it within that right away. 90 ft.

You're gonna you're gonna Well, you're going to put up the new system. You're going to wire it all up and you're going to energize it before you and you're going to disconnect the old stuff or is the old stuff going to stay there? Yeah, the old stuff it will be removed. It's just outside. So, how long I mean, you're you're obviously going to have to clear cut path for the entire corridor, right?

And I don't know if you're the engineer that we we should ask this question, but how long will it take you to complete the project from the entire the entire project in Milstone? Mr. Mr. Morris, our site plan engineer, is going to talk about the uh construction timeline. Okay.

Well, yeah, Mr. Chairman, it's 10 to 9. Um, I think it probably best to allow, and I know this is going to be the same issue we have. Okay, we're going to open it to the public. if we open to the public, which I'm okay with, to ask questions of these two witnesses, but I have a feeling 90% of their questions, Mr. Nadell is going to say is the next witness. Um, but but but I I think it at least gives the public an opportunity to ask regarding the constructions of the polls, the planning purposes. Um, especially since Where'd you come from, sir?

Kansas City, Missouri. So he doesn't have to comes in nice weather from Kansas City for here. Um so that they don't at least have to fly back. Um and the other ones are all local that they they could do. Is that what you want to do? I think that's a good option. And then if we if we start getting a lot more questions for our next witness and maybe we could kind of table the public, bring your witness up and then bring the public back. Okay. All right. So, what we're going to do now, members, members of the public, we're going to open it for questions only of the two witnesses that testify.

We I understand and we understand that you're probably going to ask a question that neither of them are going to be able to answer. It's going to be somebody else since, as we all have done numerous times. If you try to get it to what they've testified to, and if you're not, Mr. Nadell should be very quick to respond. I've jotted it. you're gonna ask this person next time you give that opportunity. Okay? So we could at least try to get you guys out. You've been here for two and you know an hour and a half, two hours. Um an opportunity to ask some questions and as we proceed. Okay. So yeah, I think uh what time we got? It is 8:53. We'll open it up to the public for our first two witnesses. Anybody wants to come forward?

And Mr. Chairman, I if I may remind um the public that this is for questions only. If anybody has comments or things that they may want to add or bring forth, we will have that opportunity at a later time. This is just for questions of All right. So, so you're going to be the guinea pig. I'll explain to the board. So, when you when you about the question is questions I'm going to ask you. I'm not going to swear you in. This is just questions. So, just give us your name, your address. When you do give a statement, I'll then swear you in. about this. So, why don't you give your name and address and then you can ask your question.

Mark and Alway um I see the engineer has some plans in his hands with with the tires with the towers. Some of some of those plans. They should be hanging. Oh, and it's not our job. It's not our job. Right. All right. I need uh you say the existing towers are bigger now. The new towers are going to go in what relation to the existing towers? Like if you had a chalkboard. Oh, here's the tower. Where you going to drill the case on for the new tower?

Yes. So, it does vary by each location. Um, a good rule of thumb that we follow is about uh 20 ft offset um you know in line with the rideway and 15t horizontally. All right. So, all right. I'm going to show them a picture or a drawing. All right. Here's a tower. This is Halway. You got Hal away on your plan? I do not. So, they must have it. If you had It's a road. There's a tower by the road. It's 40 foot off the road. Is that a zoning issue?

Um, you know what I mean? Where would the queson be? I got to see it on airplane. All right, let's let's take a step back. I understand your question. The door are things work. That's not that's we think. Okay. Do you have do you have the plans to show where on your plans for that street poll? Do you have your plan showing where that pole is going to be proposed? So, Mr. Morris, our site plan engineer. We might just need a minute or two to find it on the site plans, but I'm sure if it's an existing structure to be removed, we can find it on the site plans. You got the north, south, east, west. Is it It's got to show. All right. Well, then I own

Hold on. I'm I'm going to help you out here. He designed it. This is goes to my question. You asked the wrong person. Okay. And that's not your fault at all. Okay. So he's So you're going to take that question, put it in your pocket, and then then after the when the site plan guy comes up and we open the crim, you could ask that question, and we'll make sure he pulls it up on the plan and shows it. Okay. I got another question. There's not going to be any like additional towers. You're only replacing what's existing, not adding. You know what I mean? Tower here, tower there. You won't put one in the middle.

Yeah. In general, that is that is correct. There's there's there's just let let them match. Yeah. So, in the areas over uh where that the wood pole currently exists, there are there six, you know, the six wood H frames. We are replacing some of those with uh steel poles. And those are going to be, you know, in a little bit different locations because those are going under 500 KV lines and so crossings. Will Mr. Morris be able to testify to where those are? Yeah, those Yeah, those all those are are on shown on the site.

Well, then let me hold on. So, we have 37 lattice, six wooden, and you're adding 41 new structures, but the testimony was 48 steel poles. Okay. So there was 36 lattice, six wood, that's 43 total existing, correct? There's uh so 12 wood poles because they're H frames. So that so I don't know why you said this.

Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. All right. So it's not six, there's 12 of them. It's Yeah. So the we use the term structure because it's an H frame and so it's all connected. So it's it's got two poles with the cross arm. That's I consider that one. Okay. So there's only six. Okay. So that's 43 total structures. Okay. And then you're proposing 48 new poles. Correct. 48 new poles. Uh but again, there's some that are going back with that same H frame configuration. Okay. So at the end of the day, there's 43 structures to help answer his question. You're going to propose 43 new structures. 48 48 4

43 43 coming a structures structure. He seen some structures have two poles. Some structures are two poles. I don't So you're going to have 43 new structures. So it it it depends like it they are shown in the exhibit on the the site plan. We can um I don't know if we can pull that up. Well, increasing by just know what you're saying. Is it not as straightforward as that?

It's not as straightforward because there are there are times that there are there is an H frame and then there's times that it go we go back with like a three pole and or or a two- pole that is not connected because that's the way that the structures are designed. So, you know, I'm trying to they all look a little different. Uh they are shown as as exhibits on the site plan. So, it's probably just not as straightforward. And you okay how tall are the existing wood age structures?

They range from 56 to 61 ft. 56 to 61 ft. Correct. Yeah. But it's not a new one. And you're you're proposing to It doesn't a new one? Hold on. We can't have two conversations going. You're proposing to replace them with 170 plus feet. The area where those are being replaced, those those structures are not as tall. Not they're they're below that average height because what is the height

those in that area range from uh 78 7 let's see 62 is the lowest um up to 132. How many 62 and how many 132? Uh one of each and then there's the whole bunch in between four between. Yep. Correct. So you're going to remove six and replace six. Right. And then that that's the area where it's be it's the confusion of you know there's there's multiple Yeah. There's multiple structures. So in that area we have we would say 10 poles. Um but

on how many structures? Well, we would call um five structures. Five structures. Okay. My question was I have two now towers. I don't want three. That's what Yeah. where the the last towers are being replaced. All right. We're going to ask you, sir, when the next witness comes, he's just heard the question, and the first thing he's going to say when he testifies is those two on whatever street that is is going to be two or three to get your answer right away. Okay. And where the queson is going.

And the queson is a footing for the tower, the drilled shaft. Yep. I want to know if it's on north side of the tower. You said it's in the the the next way. This is going to answer that question. Okay. I got a tower that's surrounded by mountain lure. How are we going to protect? You're from Pittsburgh. You desent that other guy. Tell other guy. You know what a mountain law is, right? The plant. I I do not. But but we do have a witness that will talk about vegetation.

I'd like to keep them because you can't replace them if you know what they are. You know what I mean? And I like your style too about the visual. The one tower that's close to Hal away, they have them where they look like a tree. You ever see them? They make the uh the towers that look like that's cell towers. I think you could do it for uh I don't think that's allowed. Hey sir, if if you don't don't know it, you may want to go online if you're concerned about those trees and stuff.

I think through your engineers, right? Well, not the trees, but we're just stop by tomorrow time hall. We'll show you the plants, right? And there's al there's also on the website uh a tree survey summary tree survey summary they submitted which I think identifies like 2,000 different trees that may help you guys out there. They were checking for bats and everything. They were nice. The towers look nicer than the ones you have now. But the wires I'm concerned about. You said you're going to put some like in a piece of conduit or something together. No, they there's they're three just on the 500 spider

there are spacers but and they are spaced you know they're not all together so it's not does won't be it's not like 8 in uh with three wires going through it it's a it's like a insulated so so for yeah 500 KV it ends up being like a triangle all right thank you for your time stop by in town hall see we'll show you the plans Okay sir, please state name and give us your address, sir. Hi, Javier Rodriguez, 10 Nolan Drive. Question I have is in the beginning you said that a lot of stuff was submitted uh environmental uh studies, whatever.

Um was there any health studies? My biggest concern is if we're tripling the voltage capacity, you're also going to triple the electromagnetic field. So my question is by how much are we tripling the risk of that voltage by families that live in that area? So if that hasn't been submitted, will it be submitted? Will it be followed up on? Because that's my biggest concern. Uh we do have a witness that's going to discuss EMF. Uh Mr. Josempa, Mr. Brown, uh that's outside their wheelhouse. So we will we'll be prepared to discuss that when we can. What's the name of that witness? Say that again. What's his name? The witness. Yes. Pamela Dopart. Her name. I'm sorry.

That's okay. Okay, sir. So, again, put it in your pocket. That's who you're going to ask. Thank you.

Come on up, sir. just going to I guess add is I happen to be electrical engineer work for uh Fort Monmouth communication electronics command for 30 years and I I am worried about that 500 KV line that they're putting in there. Mr. Bell, I apologize to name and address. Yeah, I think he's Are you getting to the point that you're going to want to ask questions of the ex the expert regarding I don't know who's in charge of field the um the electromagnetic field. Is it people that Yeah. So what they what they've said there's going to be another witness. I told you this was going to happen. Okay. That's going to testify uh today. Today I don't know today. Maybe the next meeting about an environmental

also another witness that we didn't get to yet. Yes. So the answer is yes on both witnesses but they we're trying to get to them uh today but as of right there can I just make one comment on the environmental? Well, the only thing about the environmental you could have you can't make any comments. This is questions only, but let's wait to hear from their environmental witness and then you'll have an opportunity to ask that environmental any questions you want and then make a statement on it. Okay. Hopefully they do it today. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I knew this was going to happen. Yeah, it is what it is. It's all good. All right, sir. Please state your name for the records. That's uh Bill Frederick's and your address, sir? 52 stage coach.

Okay. All right. We got two towers sitting out there on our property. Um is it that you're it these new towers that are going to go in are going to be about 20 ft higher on the average. Um okay. I'm I'm looking at aesthetics. Okay. I'm here in Milstone for 70 years and I'd like to keep it. So, it's not We're still putting up lights all over the place. You know, I used to be able to see the stars. I can't see that stuff. And so, I'm really concerned about the environment. All right. Do you know, do you have a list of your towers that you're putting up and tell him that the towers we're placing on your property, how high they're going to be?

Yeah, we can certainly uh we certainly get that information. Okay. Second of all, you're talking about 36 feet clearance from the ground to the first 500K. Is that correct? Correct. What happens if I take a piece of machinery and I go through there excavator or something? That's going to cut my cut down to about maybe 10 ft or 12 ft clearance. What's What's going on with this? Yeah. So, that 36 I know they're not 36 right now. Yeah, correct. So that 36 ft does factor in, you know, like a vehicle going underneath the lines. A vehicle. Yeah. So construction equipment, stuff like that. Yeah. That would be, you know, um

I know we got to be careful around lines with equipment, but I'm still talking about an excavator. You're talking cut it down to about 12 ft or something. Well, doesn't these lines also cross roads? Yes. Correct. There so you a tractor trailer is going to have to drive underneath. 36 ft going over the road. So, right. So, 36 ft is is the distance we maintain because that distance doesn't need to be 36. The safe the safe, you know, distance is less than that 36. So, that factors in Yeah. like a tractor trailer. And uh one last thing, since we're making them uh higher, we're not put lights on here. Great question.

No. So we have uh run these structures through the FAA criterion tool and and yeah none of them have come back as needing any any lighting. Correct. Thank you. Good question. Greg, that's for the entire corridor, right? Yes, that's correct. James Waiter, 36 Hill Road. Um just to clarify, right now I the lines run over my house or my property. I drive in, I see six cables. How many cables am I going to see now? 15. 15. The bottom picture, sir. So, you will Yeah, you see six conductors and two static wire

and now there will be uh 15 conductors and two static wire proposed. But on on the one side, you'll see six lines. Six on one side. Nine on the other it'll be three, three, and three. Sir, sir, that picture's on our website if if you want. Okay.

And name and address, ma'am. Uh Amy Welner, 24.4 Milstone Road. Can you spell your last name, please? Wel T N R. Um I'm just wondering um if and when this is approved, when are we expecting construction to start? And how long like does one tower take to take down you know the whole process? Uh we're not there yet. Um well you you could you construction is slated for uh 2027. Correct. Yeah. There's there's a timeline there. But

that's so we have a tower on our property. How long is someone going to be on my property taking down and putting up? Yeah, it's probably a Jeff Morris question, but do we have like a general idea how long a tower takes in one area? Well, it's different phases because we got to take down the one tower. Then we got to put drill the case on board for it and then put the tower up. Well, there's not all every day for a couple months. Okay. Couple months back. Sir, address and name. Sir,

Dan Murphy, 38 Carriageway. This is not an all orno project. Meaning that if Milstone denies that you guys can't complete the project, you can still complete the project.

Well, I I I could tell you of the practical end of it that the way public utilities work, they going to have Well, I was going to tell you at the legal end, then they can answer it. But what generally happens is if in a big project like this that we if we deny them, they usually appeal that to the Board of Public Utilities uh cuz that's part of the project. But they can answer the question as to whether they could proceed or won't proceed of a project like this dealing with multiple counties and towns. But I'm just telling you what they're most likely going to happen. I prefer that. Okay.

Yeah. So, what we're trying to do, use the mic. So, what we're trying to do is connect two end points. The the substation is freehold and substation in East Windsor. So, we need to build a line between those two end points. So, if we leave part of that line out in the middle, it doesn't look good at all. So, it has to be the whole project from end to end. Are there any other towns that denied the project, right? Uh, yes. Middle middle town. Uh, no. That was that that is not true. Uh, this project has received approvals in every municipality that we've appeared in so far. By township by township approval or you went around to the public utilities? No, we went we're we're going town by town to to to 14 municipalities.

You explain this as a highway and you're putting in another road in. Is there another way around to complete the end point from end to end? Do you have to go through Muslims? That's a that's a Mr. Joseeppa question.

Well, again, we're trying to connect two end points, right? So, the the project that we were awarded was because we're using existing transmission line corridors. So, unless we go and build on a new transmission line corridor, we couldn't connect to end. So, this is the the straight line connection to on existing rightway that we already have. So that that's what we've been approved to do by PGM and the the BPU in our project award. And so now we're just trying to get permanently to complete the project that that they've already reviewed.

Okay. So there's no other avenues to get end to end except going through Milstone. Well, again, there there's always infinite possibilities to get from point A to point B, but again, we're trying to do that with what we've already discussed with PJM and the Board of Public Utilities when we talk about this project initially. So, again, we're using existing transmission, right? We're not buying new right away. We're using right away that we already have. So, it's no other existing rightway that you have that you can't go around Wilstone.

Correct. The original project was for the clean energy. We already know that that's on halt. If that never comes through and that is completely stopped, would there be a different infrastructure rehab, the the towers are old and you say you want to upgrade the towers, what would you do differently if this wasn't for the wind turbines? Could you just replace the tower and keep the six lines versus 15 lines?

Well, again, one the reason one of the reasons why we're putting the 500 KV line in this corridor is we're connecting the 500 KV at East Windsor to the 500 KV at Smithburg and completing a loop that doesn't exist today. We're closing a basically a link in the circuit to create a more reliable system. So if we, you know, outside of the offshore wind, if we had to rebuild this corridor, we would rebuild it as we have proposed here tonight. Okay. So So the 500 KV that you're putting in is a necessary upgrade for electrical service in this area to improve the reliability. Yes.

What does that mean to improve the reliability? Well, because of the way the system is configured today, you know, we have, like I explained earlier, Smithberg substation is radially served from on the 500 KV line right now. This would provide an additional 500 KV source in the Smithburg substation which supports the 230 KV network in this area. So, it's an extra line is what you're putting in. Redundancy and reliability. Yes. So, it's not it's not the main line that you're using. It's a secondary line in case something goes down. So, it's not mandatory. You have We have one line in now, correct? And you just want to put a second line in

for reliability? Yes. And if there was no turbines, would you need that redundancy so bad? Yes. Okay. on the footings. How deep are they going on a 170 foot tower as we have a lot of wells in here?

Yeah. So, the new concrete foundations, the average depth is 32 feet. Um there's a range there um from the the low 20s to make sure believe 47 ft is the deepest um that we have. And and was there a study on the effects of the well in the town, the water aquifer? Yeah, I think we need some. Yeah, that that witness has not testified yet. Okay. Uh noise.

Can you have a walk underneath these wires? You could hear the hum and you're going from six to now 15 wires. Uh our EMF witness uh who hasn't testified yet will also talk about noise. Okay. Increase in electric rates due to this project. Electric rates have gone through the roof. What is that going to be? Who's funding this? Is this a grant or is this going to increase our electric rates that are now out of control? I think that's a BPU question. Yeah. Was it BPU? I think that's you got to bring that question. Well, they they're here to ask for variance to put in all these towers. There has to be a cost component to it,

right? But I don't think the two witnesses that testified at anything regarding rates. I think if you could answer if if you know it, but I doubt it's above your I presume it's above your pay grade. Well, I I can talk in general about that. So you we're always making investments in our system and that is you know this project is being funded through the transmission budget of JCPNL. So you know we have a budget that we spend on transmission projects and this will be part of that that spend that we would do at JCPNL that all becomes part of our transmission rate recovery that's recovered through the PGM grade us. Yeah. So, this is going to be we're going to fund this project.

As with every project that takes place with a utility, you know, those dollars have to be recovered. So, yes, there's a there's a rate that goes into effect based on the money that we spend on projects as with public service and Atlantic City Electric and so on. Yes. And this project was originally created for the Clean Energy Act. that was done by an executive order, not by a vote of the actual residents of the state. So, this has never really been voted on a project for the wind turbines that is halted. Again, that was the primary reason we identified this project, but the project is still needed without the offshore wind.

But we can certainly do other upgrades to the towers at a less cost that will give us redundancy instead of doing this big massive project. There were other options to make sure that the towers don't degrade. You can replace the towers with similar size and right. Well, again, yeah, what we're doing is we're taking out the aged infrastructure that's in the order and replacing it with new, as Mr. Brown testified, more resilient infrastructure that can withstand, you know, more extreme weather conditions. So, and I already spoke to the need for the 500 KV line. So even without the offshore wind, we would do this project the same way.

You would do the Okay. The putting in now footings. What is there now besides concrete footings? There's uh the concrete footings and then there's grillage which is like steel steel underneath the ground.

Okay. And the maintenance to maintain these new footings. The concrete can chip and crack and degrade just as quick as anything. and the poles compared to what we have now which did come with a maintenance cost on these new poles and footings because you're maintaining them now right you said at the beginning that they were going out there and doing maintenance on these old towers is there a maintenance estimate on it now the new stuff you know that

well as with anything when something's new it doesn't need a lot of maintenance right so if we put these towers in are these pulls in, right? They're they're not going to need a lot of maintenance for a period of time. Eventually, like everything else, you know, they will require maintenance in the future. I think I addressed the questions for these others for the next You'll have full opportunity for the other ones. Thank you. Will somebody at some point also just to the gentleman's question when I think be able to address the lifespan of the proposed towers and equipment? You've talked about the ones that are there now. Are there 59 60 plus years? What would we expect moving forward with the new equipment? Longer I think you said, correct?

Yeah, we we generally design these to be about 70 75 years lifespan. And that's the poles or just the poles or the poles and the wires maybe? Yeah, the the whole system. Okay. And obviously there is maintenance cycles. Ma'am, we're not assuming that no maintenance will happen over 70 years, but yeah. Just your name and your address, ma'am. Spell your last name. Nicole Newman, uh, Six Hulk Drive. Um, I had the same question as somebody before about like the specific towers that are behind my house. That is that in part of the site that's going to be the next guy. Is it available on the website as well?

The all the plans are on the website. If you go trying to find it, I I would go to A1. It's the preliminary and final major site plan of various consisting of 43 sheets. So, it's gonna be in there. And how do you get I was trying to navigate the website. I got you. Okay. So, if you go to boards, committees, and commissions, click on zoning board of adjustment. Then on the side there's a section that says agendas, minutes, exhibits.

Click on that. And then under the meeting it says documents. You're going to click the documents and it has everything in there. Everything that we have is Thank you. Thank you. Sorry, one last quick one. So, you said right now from the lightning thing at the top to where the first layer of wires is is about 20 26 ft on the Is that the same as the current? Current is 20 ft. Okay. So, it's just a bit. Okay, that's all. Thank you. Thank you. I just I have one question. That set up you have come to the mic. Come to the mic, please. It's for the recording.

That setup is that anywhere in New Jersey like that those 15 wires that that like say hey we go look at it or say and see how it ugly it's going to look. Sir, could you repeat your name first? James Waiter.

Okay. Is there any and I think it's a great question in the sense of if members of the public or the board want to go see existing towers like that you're proposing here with the same or similar number of wires, where would we drive to? Yeah, that's not a question that I can answer right off the top of my head. That's a different quarter.

There's the like the Yeah, there's a 500 down on like six on

your area.

Well, there's not a exact replica in the area or in New Jersey that we could show. One more question. Areas that you put this in, has the property value decreased? for people that to live underneath that house. Probably another witness. These two above their pay grade. Okay, hold on. This this lady's been You can come up your name and your address. Ma'am,

Shannon Muso 5 Mount Drive. I am a brand new resident to this town. I moved to this town because I heard it was beautiful. I heard the school system was amazing. I am horrified at what you are doing that my 9-year-old child overheard me talking and said, "Mommy, I don't want to get cancer cuz they're putting big towers by my house. I don't know how you lay your head on the pillow at night and go to sleep." Okay, Matt.

I really don't. So, I want to know where out to Mammoth County do you plan on doing this? Do you plan on destroying all of Mammoth County or are we the guinea pigs? Where else is this in New Jersey that we can see? I am horrified. Where else is this? Or are we guinea pigs? So, I'll answer that. We You're not guinea pigs. Uh the project goes through 14 municipalities and four counties in New Jersey. What towns? What townships, please? in Mammoth County. Uh, Colt's Neck, Wall, Freehold, um,

Howell, um, Roosevelt, East Windsor's Mercer County. So, Upper Freehold, just Freehold Township. Yeah, but not on a build yet. So, have they been approved? Were they approved? Exactly. Yes. If in my introduction I explained that the project has been approved in Freehold, Jackson, Howell, Lakewood, and East Windsor. We're we're making our way through the corridor. The Middletown supposedly rejected this.

No. So that is that is not true. That is a completely different project called the Central New Jersey Reliability Project. This is the New Jersey Clean Energy Corridor Project. So, Middletown is not a municipality. That is part of the CEC project that we're discussing this evening. What is the similarity between Middletown and the Milstone project? The sim is there a similarity? I wouldn't be able to answer that question. I know they have two different names, right? But might be Did any of the two witness testify deal with the Middletown site? Mr. Josempa may have been involved in that project.

Were you involved? It's a rage 2016.

Would you mind just clarifying that Mr. Hzamp if you're familiar with it? We just want to know generally size of the size of the towers in Middletown that were proposed regarding the other project and amount of wires. Is it a 500? Is it less if you know? Well, that that project was actually called the Mammoth County Reliability Project, the MCRP. And I'm sorry, I had the name wrong. I apologize. Okay. That was that was to build a 230 KB line from FreeU down to Redbank along the New Jersey Transit Railroad Corridor and that was denied by the BPU. Okay.

But it was a 230 KV single circuit line. And I believe that project also was going through Hasllett and the like. And if I if I'm correct, ma'am, I believe that that project, and this is from my memory of being the attorney in Hllet and Middletown as well, is that they were all new poles dur down that those corridors. Correct. So that that's a even though these are new poles, these were railroads that they were putting brand there were no blinds there

and they were putting pole they were putting poles up. So I think that's kind of and obviously the mount's different but that's what was going on middle through Middletown Hasllett Keith that area was all new poles now my memory is kind of kicking in seeing the signs that's what that project was correct. So did that application get presented at Middletown? No, no, that that whole project was just taken to the BPU initially and so they, you know, we had local meetings with the local municipalities to talk about the project, but we didn't go through a zoning hearing at each of the municipalities. We went to the board of public utilities initially,

right? So, so your your discussions with the municipalities, was it at a uh was it at a planning level? you know, maybe uh no, it was more like an open house type of form where we just talked about the project and brought the call up and publicly, right? And there was a lot of discussion of has nothing to do with this application. Let's be realistic. There was a lot of conversation why is you putting it on the ground. That was kind of the movement from the municipalities but has nothing for the record clearly has nothing to do with it. It was just for clarification that's what that project was. Um just two more questions. Was Colts Neck approved Township?

I believe we met with Colts Neck and it we're still going with Colt. Yeah, that still on our list. But aren't all the corridors connecting like you're saying? Oh, if you're going to ask a question, you have to come up. You were saying they have to connect like a puzzle piece. So, aren't they all connecting to each other as you're explaining? When you say connecting, what are you referring to? I think Mr. Zeppi knows what he's talking the answer.

So, so what we're doing is building a transmission line between two substations. This substation, it's in freehold Smithburg substations, the East Windsor substation, East Windsor. So, we're connecting those two substations. Right now, there's a line that does that. We're adding to that. So, but is the line that you're doing go through Cold Stack? No, no, it doesn't. Okay. No, I'm a former resident there, so that's why

you're saying this basically will be approved. No one said that. Board on it. We haven't voted on it. No one said that at all. That's why there's a public hearing. They proceed all their evidence. The public has opportunity to question, present any statements or evidence. The board ask questions. We have our own professionals, our engineer and planner discuss the legal ramifications and then the board votes. That's the whole purpose of these hearings. And as far as the turbines in LBI, you got a lot of push back. I have family members who are residents in LBI. A lot of push back there what you're trying to do to Long Beach Island. We we're trying to just leave it to the questions.

Okay. You can make that statement at the end. We'll give you plenty of opportunity. Ma'am, can I get a follow to what I heard? If it's another question or a comment question. The question. Sure. Come on up. This project is unique to New Jersey. This is not being done any other state.

What's unique about this is the tower design is different. So this tower design does not appear to my knowledge anywhere else in New Jersey. Now I did not do an exhaustive search to so this a brand new design. So the design the design is different different than what we've used elsewhere. So the design

but the the project itself is not we have other 500 KV lines with other transmission lines on them. A difficult design. It takes up um for example in Virginia we have 500 KV built over 138 KV that's on this huge H frame structure. So that's you have two poles in the ground with a a bar across them. So other structures like this type of construction exists just not this particular design. What is unique about this design? Is it the poles? Is it the 15 wires? Is it the spider around the three wires? What is unique about this? I think he can answer that one. You decide. What?

Go ahead. I can anything he doesn't say. I can tell. The difference between this design and what we've done previously is these are all on single poles and built vertical rather than horizontal. That's the difference.

On the horizontal, you're talking more poles, right? What about the height? Is the height still the same or is it because you're doing monopoles you need more height but if you did H theoretically you wouldn't need the height or you would need more width like that's the I guess you're going to this what's the benefits of this compared to your standard H okay regarding the big issues height okay uh number of poles pools. I I guess what's the benefit of the new design for those issues regarding height and number of pulse?

Yeah. So, because we are utilizing our existing rideway of 180 ft, we can do this the at the two circuits vertically and it and it is like fits with the within with clearance safety clearances. If we went to eight frames that everything would have to be bumped out horizontally and a much wider rideway would be needed. a significantly wider wideway. And how high would those B? So you need larger 180 uh width. Correct. Correct.

And heightwise heightwise with the H frames, those those can be can be dropped down to to be, you know, you still maintain that 36 ft. Um they would they would probably be about the same, maybe a little shorter than existing poles just because everything's on the same level. But however that yeah that rideway width would have to would have to increase significantly. That would also increase the number quantity of poles along the line as well.

That that depends on how high they are. So again yeah we could bump the height up keep the quantity the same or you know put more in. And what if what if the pole design was shaped like a T instead of a monopole and you and you were able to spread your transmission lines across a horizontal width. You know, similar to what you're doing with an H an H structure, except instead of a just a single model, it becomes a pole where it is a pole that is shaped like a T. It kind of is. They are shaped like a T. Kind of have like an elevator on the right and left. You're good.

But you're doing a six 50% increase in height. And now 119 you're going 178. 174 average. So it's almost a 50% increase. Where in the state or in your system do you have poles that high? Is this the first time you're going that height? I can't. Okay.

No, definitely not. We we have poles that are very high similar heights in elsewhere in our footprint as well. It depends on on where we're constructing the voltage we're constructing at and the terrain. So you know depending on span length and all these other things as Mr. Brown talked about and that changes how we do certain designs. So this is not uncom we have towers that are tall enough that we actually require FAA lighting. So this is this is not unusual. This is the clean energy pack. We we call our project the clean energy corridor, but that's just a brand name that we selected. What's clean about this project? Yeah.

What's clean about this project is the initial driver for the project was the offshore wind. So that's where we actually got the name from, which isn't which isn't being done now. It's delayed. It's delayed and it's really not that clean. But what's clean about more wires, more radiation, more noise? Thank you. What's clean about? Well, we know that the electricity demand is increasing because they're trying to get rid of fossil fuels. So by getting rid of fossil fuels that will possible because we're getting rid of gas vehicles, we're getting rid of gas heating and buildings and oil heating and buildings and replacing with the wiper coming.

There's really nothing clean about this project because the wires are generating more radiation, more noise, more environmental impact than what's there. So, as far as that's concerned, there's nothing clean about that. The actual infrastructure. No, that's more of a we could get to that. Thank you. No answer. He has no answer. Hi, my name is Bruce Wolf, 40-year uh resident in Milstone Township. Bruce, can you spell your last name? Wolf WF your dresser?

125 Backbone Hill Road. And um I've seen these these lines uh appear maybe around turnpikes, parkways. Why in the world would you want to put this? I understand it's probably cheaper for you to cut right through an existing right away, but if you happen to be the lucky person that lives behind or uh below these these wires with the high power and high voltage going through, I I I would like to ask a question. Did you do your homework and go through other avenues? Did you go through the turnpike? That's where you would see these transmission lines or the parkway. You don't put this in somebody's backyard. That's a cheap way out in my opinion. So, did you exhaust every avenue or you just look at it as the cheaper way for you guys to run your lines? You know, that's my question just to start. Well, it it was my team that actually came up with the plan of how to build the infrastructure necessary to import offshore land and maintain the reliability that required to maintain. One of the things we tried to exercise when we're looking at projects is to utilize existing rightway to its maximum capability because it's so difficult to get new right away. As we talked about earlier with the MCP project, people don't like green field projects. So where we have existing transmission corridors, we try to leverage them because most people tell us, "Why don't you put it where you already have a transmission line?" So that's what we're doing.

Well, I I I just find it hard to believe that you're going to make this gigantic way above our tree lines. Everybody's going to look at it and then you'll do what I see already where you're putting microwaves on top of some of your power lines. Is this another way of of profits being uh All right, that's we have to have a question. I mean, Yeah, you asked you asked a question about are you able to put microwaves on there or other you know structures on top since you have the height because it's always a problem and I see it being done on some of your transmission lines. Is that the next thing we could expect? And that question was asked and answered earlier and I believe the answer was we're not putting any cell phone equipment on these towers. Actually the answer was another witness was going to answer that question.

Okay,

that's a preview of what's to come. So I I guess there's no there's no way that you could look to minimize the height of these trees because again everywhere you look this is not a turnpike where you have major transmission. This is a residential area and I understand you have it right away but you really need to do it right. You need to do the right thing. You talked about power electricity going through the roof. I don't know. You talk about a 20% increase we had and then you say that we need to put more power. Who's going to generate who's going to put electric power in their house really? You're going to get rid of fossilized fuel. So I think you guys need to really look to try to satisfy some of the people here in this town and minimize the heights. I understand you might have to go wider on it on your ements, but you need to bring if if that's the uh only way of doing it, but you need to bring the heights down. And you have definitely a factor with this uh you know 500 ft interest.

A follow up on that. Thank you sir. Is that the height is driven by the three lines and the anti- lightning line. Right. Could you just explain why the proposal is for three 500 lines rather than 200 lines or 100 lines? What's the purpose of three as compared to two as compared to one? Because that drives the height. Yeah. So it's one 500 KV circuit and each circuit consists of three phases. So when we say you know there's there's three wires, three wires, three wires. That's three different phases and that has to exist for that circuit to be.

So it's not three lines, it's one unit that's consisting of nine lines. Correct. Nine wires. Correct. So one 500 KV line consists of the three phases which is nine wires. Correct. How come 15 wires? How come 15 conductors is the

six thing? And and my last question would be for us to be used and and raise the these transmission lines to that height and deal with all the the uh to our detriment in my opinion. And there's no nothing that comes back to our township. When's the last time the power lines came down? I I'm almost 70 years old. I can't remember the last time I saw a structure come down. I can't remember hearing about it from winds at all. Um, so you talk about it's at the end of their life. You know, when's the last time anybody remembers a line being broken and separated and coming down? I don't remember that. So maybe you could answer that question. I don't know the history of the outages on that particular section. I mean, I certainly could find that, but I do not have that information tonight. But again, we have to meet federal standards. Federal standards require us to design the system such that the loss of any single transmission element is transparent to the system. So in other words, if a line does come down, nobody is supposed to know about that. It should not have any impact on the way the system operates. That's the standard we have to maintain on the transmission system. It's becoming even more stringent. So you know imagine driving your car down the highway and you lose a wheel and you could still keep driving. That's how we have to design a transmission system. So you wouldn't know if a line came down. We would because we'd get alarms about it, but we have to design the system. So if the line does come down, nobody knows about it. The system does not change. So that's why you wouldn't know because nobody's supposed to know.

Well, I would hope and the biggest loss of power we have is like one of these gentlemen here on the committee talked about is the telephone polls. That's something that I would hope as a JCPNL uh customer for many years, you guys really look into doing that. You talk about transmission lines. I have never had a problem with the transmission line and I'm here 43 years. So, there's nothing else you guys can do to help improve. You want to say you want to help our our community, but you do nothing about it. You seem like it's it's more for this offshore power and not for the locals here. We're going to have to our detriment to have these poles put up and there's no side benefit. There's nothing fixing the wires, fixing the poles or doing whatever you need to do to give us better service. Most people here service on these poles and these wires that are Jersey Central Power, most of us have to go out and get generators because it's unreliable, especially here at the end of a run. So, you really if you know you want us to say and welcome this, you need to help us out in other ways as well. So, I would hope that you guys could really look at doing something different than having a 175 or 192 ft dinosaur on people's backyards. I find it to be other ways and other ways of doing it a lot better than creating eyes and property values going down as a result of it.

Thank multiple questions. Sorry, that's okay. David Chris Welner, 244 Milstone Road. Uh, you briefly touched on the rightway. Is that going to expand or shift? Because now you have a tire tower located here and if you put it on either side of that, the rightway is going to have to shift on the side of that tower, I would imagine. Is that correct? the the existing easement that JCPNL has is 180 ft and that will remain 180 ft

even if the tower is offset because I know when they come every 5 years usually they come through and do a cut and when they did all the surveying for all this I met with the texts and everything because my house is right directly adjacent to one of the towers. So after they were gone, another crew must have come through. And I seen to the south side of the line there was all new trees had all ribbons, which to me indicates that's all going to get clear cut down now as well, which would be outside of the existing rightway. So, I just I'd like to have some type of confirmation of how that line is how that rideway is going to remain or are they actually going to shift because now especially you're going up higher. Are you going to have to take more trees out that might impact that because it's higher the towers?

Sir, it's the ladder. What they're proposing is they have an existing 180 ft. Right.

Okay. When you if you look through the plans, strongly suggest that anyone that lives near there go on the website, look at the plans, find your house, okay? They have 180T right now, but for argument sake, they have 80 ft of clear space. Still means they have 100 ft outside, whether it's 60, 40, 50, 50, 70, 30. All right? What they're simply going to do is they are going to clear cut and make the opening wider. They won't they're not extending the read me even still here. They're going to remove the trees to make the opening wider. It's very simplistic answer what they're what they're doing. And that's why you got to look at the plans to see how far they're going to be clearcut or proposed to be clearcut near your house which are on the plans.

Yeah. Because like I said, they these existing trees have now had markers on them. You're right. That's why you should really look at those plants. But that's outside the existing easement. Nope. The easement's still there. The trees are in the easement. The trees grow within the easement. They have the right to clear that right. They did show some trees outside the easement, but they're not taking those down, right? They're taking they're not they're not allowed everything in their own ement. They're not which is taken down now. They did that years ago. They've done some but they're doing more now. They're proposing more. Thank you.

Any other questions at the moment? Thank you. I make uh William Thomas 9 Nolan Drive. Uh has there been any consideration given to going underground? Was that a possibility with this type of transmission or is there too much power? I mean to echo what the young lady said here, I moved to Millstone 15 years ago to get away from Edison, New Jersey. It is towers, congestion, building, etc. So I moved down here and now I see we're getting power towers in our backyard. Um You know again was there any consideration given to going underground for the aesthetics for reliability?

Um the other way going underground was was not part of our consideration for a number of reasons. Um not that engineering wise we could not do that but it's very expensive to do that. We do have an existing right ofway with headlines in it already. So we just utilize the existing transmission corridor for this project with overhead question

and and you don't have to give a specific answer. Okay. If you are keep let's ass for a practical let's say you don't have to replace the 60year-old structures. Let's just assume that's the case. And you would you would keep all the existing structures and not have to do any of those improvements. never have to drill another pole and you would only have to go underground for the 500 is that was not considered cuz keeping existing and then if you're really just adding the 15 lines, what about going underground for the those lines and keeping the disconstruction which will save you on all the construction, all the removal of trees, etc., etc., etc. Was that even considered? It wasn't considered. That's okay. I'm just bringing that as

well and maybe you can't put five I when I undo a light bulb I get electric shock so I'm not electrical engineer so I just Is is that un is that not practical or is it practical?

Well inherently there's issues the higher voltage you go to put those lines underground. So the higher the voltage the the more problems you have with undergrounding that particular voltage. And also people think of underground when it's all said and done and they don't see what actually happens before that. And so the the the amount of excavation and upgra um the rightway we'd have to clear to put a 500 KV line underground. All the equipment we'd have to have there. We'd have to like a 20 foot wide trench from East Windsor to Smithburg that's like 30 ft deep or something. It's a huge undertaking to put those lines underground. And so it from an environmental perspective, it's very devastating to put a line underground like that. And so, but then you think about it when it's all said and done. Yeah, now everything's good. But then now something happens to that line and you have to go in there and dig all that back up and make repairs on that and everything. So it's not easy to maintain in the future. It's very challenging to put in initially and then there's inherent, you know, technical challenges with underground high voltage lines.

Thank you. Yeah. Um, it's not really a question. So, um, also there's a lot of wind down here. Everybody lives in uh, this county, this township. Um, are these lines more susceptible to whistling from the wind? I mean, that sounds like a crazy thing, but if you're living next to them, you know, you're not talking about humming, but wind noise. Are they going to be Are they designed so they don't make noise? Is that your leaking? What is that? Not really something to consider.

No, not not Yeah, not something we really consider. New Jersey does have a noise limit that the we must maintain. Um, and so we've done noise studies on the line. Uh, that's 50 dB. And so, yeah, we are meeting those standards for this. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a witness going to talk about the noise too as well.

Okay, last uh last question. Animal friendly. You we have a lot of birds, migratory birds. They land on zapp. they have I mean right now they don't seem to have any problems on the current towers but um you know is there enough insulation or something

typically the birds won't land on these lines because the gradient I mean birds can land on just about any electric line because they're they don't have two points of potential right so it's but they have to overcome the voltage that they're at while they're flying in the air when they land on the particular transmission line or subtransmission line or whatever. They won't land on these lines because the bulge gradient is too strong around these lines, but they will land on the static wires. So, that won't change. They don't land on the 230 KB lines that are there today. They'll they'll land on the static wires, but they won't land on the actual transmission. They do land on the towers. And I've seen top we got large vultures and things of that nature flying around. So,

yes, they'll still land on the towers or actually the arms. They'll land on the arms. They'll land on the static wire, but they won't land on the actual conductors. Too much. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. Anyone else from the public want to come forward at the moment?

Okay. Mr. Nadell, before we figure out where we're going next, do you have any question and before we let your two witnesses go back to Kansas City and Pittsburgh? Okay. Do you have any other questions for them for the record before we talk about the next hearing date or you'll have to fly them in or drive them in back? Not at this time. Okay.

All right. So, it's it's 10:00 at night. I don't think we want to start another witness. No, I think we'll table that to the next time. All right. So Danielle, my opinion, uh, I believe from seeing emails from you, our February 25th meeting is kind of packed with existing applications. We have two continued. So what do we have in March? Sounds like JCPL. Okay, that'll be March 25th, correct? Correct.

Okay. Um, before I do my typical language, is the board uh have any further questions of these two witnesses that we're going to allow them not to come back in March? Okay. I don't, but I have a question for you. What about board members that are not here and they are going to review the video to What we're going to do is we'll get the ones review. If they have to, we'll figure it out. Okay. Okay. Hopefully all the questions for the board and all the questions from the public answer those questions. If not, we'll deal with it. Okay. Okay. Professionals just for these two assist.

No questions. But I'll note that Mr. Ozmpa has answered like 90% of the public's questions. You may want to consider bringing him back just in case there's additional questions. I have a feeling there will be that he will probably be the only one who could answer um your call, but that's just reading the room. You might you might need him. Uh, we we appreciate that and I think when we digest after this evening, we'll we'll likely be bringing Mr. Rosen back. At least the weather will be nicer. Hope so. Maybe.

Okay. All right. For members of the public, this application is going to be carried to March 25th, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. in these chambers. Uh, I presume either you guys are own properties, but you all receive probably certified mail for this application. you will not receive it again. This is your notice that the application is going to be discussed next at the March 25th 5th meeting. It will not be discussed at the February meeting. So, you're not going to miss out. Okay? So, this is your notice uh that'll be carried to March 25th, 2026 at 7:30 p.m. these chambers. We are going to proceed with continued witnesses. Most likely, we'll let them finish their application and then open it to the public for questions and comments at that time. It's sometimes easier to just have when you come up ask your questions and give your statement so you get it all out. Okay. Um, other than that, chairman,

I think we're good for tonight. It's almost 10:00. I think we're good for this evening.

Motion to make a I'll make that motion. Second. Thank you. All in favor I very sorry I feel