Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yeah, I watched the track around that intersection. Joe's trying to join. Okay. Are you there?

Oh, don't push it. I think's he may be halfway through the meeting order. Please rise allegiance. Algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the standice

here. public comment on the items only comments.

One comment in business commission item It's a read. It says building is machine shop local. I think it was

I don't want anybody think to accept by second.

Yes. Moving on to business commission 20269 just arriving. after.

Yes. Yeah. Every other motion afterward. country civil engineer. So we have the plans and the goal tonight is to accept them as being administrative and then answer any questions or com. We start discussion by Tom. Roll call, please. I'll come back to it.

Yes.

Have any questions or comments? I'm assuming you submitted this as a preliminary final plan. Correct. So, how we handle that? You would submit a waiver request for that. Generally, the planning commission today can say they're good with it and then we'll have to go to the board and have them entertain that and then the review will be for everything. Just so that you're aware of that process. We don't come out and let you go to final right away. Is there any concerns from the planning commission on doing that?

Yeah, I mean I don't think you did you submit waiver requests with your original application.

You may have but that was not included. That works. And then they can vote on it at the next meeting. There's any No, we did not.

So, if you receive some correspondence, if you can just print it off, you will get a fee from us until you go to the improvement stage. Otherwise, you're going to submit as the application and we only check that. So, we had another developer go in I think they got it off Facebook page and they came up with something. You will not get anything from us of that unless you have an escro replenishment and you would get a copy of the invoice from the engineering the attorney reviewing it with that always.

Yeah, we will notify the other applicants that are on this agenda. Yeah, we don't have any planning administr I have a couple questions. You guys were here. adding two existing

building you are not or you are home that I thought that's what I kind of remember you owning that property. Is it currently leased out or rented? Yeah. Okay. So, the the renter is well aware of what is going on in the property that surrounds them basically.

Yeah. What kind of impact We ran into a Pennsylvania agency that houses like privacybody. area. We discussed too about possibly discussions. I would think depending on the capability of the residual kind of potential safety purp. I think this drive, but that driver also res

That's the hairy Right from the beginning, we need to know like who is more responsible, who's less responsible, is it a 5050 way street there just with maintaining and upkeeping and everything in that nature. Now, we know that, you know, we're going to be making the road wider for accommodations for state road. So, spoke to overdose not even driveway. There is other access.

I think we're going to want to see some memorialization on an agreement and who's responsible for what. And we're not going to dictate that you're 100% responsible. That's up to you and property owner that needs the access. Um but typically we hire an attorney and communicate with them and come up with whoever you're going to be responsible for maintenance and need to be repaired or if they're going to go back to using another access point that's really up to you to decide on how you want to proceed. We wouldn't necessarily

Right. Right. I think our opinion is we don't like shared driveways because what happens and they don't see it but Angela and I and Jill see it people come in and as soon as you stop maintaining it or snow plowing or parking because you're having parties or your trucks are going too fast people come in and file complaints and then we have to figure out what to do with it. So, we just want to have an agreement that states out who's responsible for what, who owns what, and as long as we have that forally good. I don't think they have access to property.

So, I mean, our solicially, but I think if they're if they don't have access or frontage on the road and they're currently have access to your property. I don't know if you can necessarily say that. Yeah, Jill. Jill, they would have an ement by necessity. Brent's point, you know, whatever the

I guess for legal status too, like you know, something would happen right on that roadway if they would come out and slip on that road. Can they come after us? Where back to your point, you know, there should be some sort of written agreement where we're all understanding and covering ourselves. We're going to require you to do that as part of this. Yeah. So, I think we would generally have a whole harmless list and identification review for the township. So, they're not coming after us, but then you guys have to have one individually for each other. Um, if something was there, so I don't know if you have a solicitor or an attorney that does work for you. they can certainly answer that and go through. Um,

I mean, there's always the potential for liability and lawsuits. So, that's where these agreements, they're not foolproof, but it at least cleans up that issue. Um, and I think Joe, the solicitor will say, too, that if you want to, we prefer to have the draft agreement for review by the solicitor just to make sure it's correct. Yeah. Don't don't execute anything prior to us reviewing and consenting that it's okay.

Yeah, but not along airport.

Yeah, I think that's a I think that's a um street. I don't think that goes all the way through. What we were told by the previous owner, I guess that they used to utilize all the time was eliminated when they added on to the house. So, I don't know if it was the garage that they added on or what we weren't there prior to that, you know. So if they added on the garage and eliminated their access, that's you know main reason why they're coming on.

So as far as the two proposed buildings, do you want to just discuss what currently the use of the existing building and what's going to be the use of the two proposed buildings? detracting business. So there's two separate entities on the property and you're going to be leasing.

Yes. So I own a concrete masonry business. So everything under the realm of concrete masonry products and stuff is what I store at the property. There's going to be no fuel tanks. We agree on that. No fuel tanks. Kevin and I own the property. Our business will contractor much So far as to your question,

well, you said you No. So like the Portland lime I only keep like two three pallets at a time. That would be all like Yeah, papa or brick or cmus like that would be on a pallet stage outside the building or whatever.

I think we would be requiring you. Make sure there is twice. I did that first. I try to understand what the owners are trying to do. I don't know what else to call it.

No, that's all product that I actually grinding down at the West Mall. That's all that's going to be under that particular that you're talking about is going to be recycled for the driveway going specifically stockpile when we get to go ahead

are you going to have employees here like office or anything like that. So, I'm gonna have an office for myself, but my employees know and my employees most of the time take the vehicles home with them. So, right now I'm running and I'm wondering about fac things like that required.

Well, we do have testing done all day trips. Obviously people would say not just two lights that there honestly like from my standpoint right now there's when they would bring the vehicles back I mean maybe 3 in the morning at 4:35 My average pick up material material would be.

So did you say you were on doing improvements to the driveway at airport road and getting permit. Would there be any I know this is a gravel driveway. Would there be any benefit to have a portion of it just for road to keep the gravel off of airport?

I think I think

the entire I think the access drive and the parking must be paid but the storage are not required. I believe there's some flexibility like if they have a lay down the driveway and parking

they have to be ahead. That's a private road. It's not a couch, but it's also probably an existing condition that we're not reviewing in accordance with ordinances as we're doing.

Yeah. Most of the buildings in there were built prior to zoning itself. So, and it's private ownership. So, for that road, it's been there. But anybody came in off of that, wanted to develop, we would most likely require them. I know we did make some paving improvements on the one doing a small expansion, but it wasn't a new building. So, if somebody came in at that point, they would have to come in

backt up to your building. But for a commercial non to see if it would just have to be paid for the commercial business and once it for the res.

Yeah, they can always go for I think the building requirement not performant question. very corner. So, how we typically handle it is the same submission that you would make for us, you would make there that you may be able to ask for a request for a waiver of land development and they may grant it. Um, I can't how to proceed, but that you're either going to seek a waiver or you're going to make an application and then they would be on the plan. We would copy our refus to them, they would copy their to us. I know we years ago had that discussion on how to handle this as well as the house being built where they want to put the septic system down the home. We would just go and coordinate that I can't see what their board would want to review with this other driveway but they may require development that little section I would try reaching out to their manager officer and seeing what their thoughts are and how to proceed. Are you going to put any planning behind that one building right in front of the house?

They may be required to. So I think there's probably need to be some type of screening because of the fact that it's commercial. Right. Like I said, there's there's trees right now, but there's

we'll be doing the full review for discussion at the May Moving on to the next item on the agenda. Tim Anderson for Keystone Cement Street. We're here. Um the supervisors I understand have waved land development and so we're here for site plan approval. Um we're asking that the planning commission um approve or recommend approval site plan subject to the engineers comment on a little bit of clarification there. I think any questions you may have and by the way question.

No, I think one of your clarifications requested was about the lighting. Okay. So, your plan stated all additional lighting shall conform to the regulations and requirements of the construction code. So I think my comment is that if you're proposing new show all existing in that area and then you should be showing lighting and your layout eliminated.

Yeah.

Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Whatever you would be supplying for the building permit, just include with this. So that way you already have that work done. Um, but just the second page or third page of this will just have the locations or the photos of where you're lighting and how it's spec issue. Is the lighting actually shown on the um it's not shown.

Yeah, if you can just show a general re-engineer it just provide something that overlay that shows that location of it and we're only looking at the new lighting not existing what's there today. We should show at least show what the existing lighting is so we can look at where the existing lighting is comparison to the I think you had maybe one or two being relocated. Yeah. I mean, I guess I meant the

whole area. relocation. if you want to just do a PDF and email the whole thing and then we'll just keep it but probably the actual specs of what

I don't know

a lot of documents like a large document Obviously not all that you're looking for Dropbox file with it unless there's something out of it so that we have it for sure anyway we have just so we have that I don't boxes of keystone cement in this building. It's turning into our foundation of this building.

Um, so when you do your electronic submission, if you do a CD or you just want to call the office There's no you're making a plan. part of this plan. Well, I think they they've broken it into two parts. It's gonna be two parts.

So, that part I think they said they were going to look at potentially doing land development for deciding if they wanted to ask again for site.

I was kind of wondering recommendation. I'll make a motion that we recommend to the board of supervisors officing officer requests on satisfaction of thems. March 27 lettering and that they show existing as well as

second.

Yes. Thank you very much.

Anyway, thank you everybody. All right, moving on to the next.

So, you do not have hard copies. If you want hard copies, we can print them off. I did upload them today. Um, they're not for you to entertain tonight, but you can take a look at them. They address all the comments that I think we were talking about with the duties, the agendas, um, going through the responsibilities. Basically, the framework is really going to be for a new member that they know what we're doing. So, we can review those and then the next steps after if you're good in May, we would recommend those go to the board just for comment and then you guys can vote on June. It is in diligent and I can email them out separate too. It's underneath the item. Okay.

All right. So this is what you guys do. Correct. Correct. As you guys end your terms and decide not to get reappointed or leave that you can go out and give a framework to those people that are joining.

All right. So there's two things. First is you have a draft of the data center ordinance. We're not going to discuss it tonight. We have 45 days. We'll discuss it at the next meeting. Um but today we'll start the 45day clock for the submission. Um and then the board will be able to have a hearing. It's I think 17 pages long. Um but what this does is takes the existing zoning ordinance and adds criteria for data centers within the township. It only allows them in the extractive industrial zoning district which is basically the area cement where heavy industrial is permitted only. Um and it puts standards such as noise or sound in this case um lighting just general pollution. It requires public water and sewer but does not allow for lot. We went through several different drafts of various data center ordinances. I think we used Paradise Township. We had one from Middle Smithfield Township. We had one from Palmer Township. One from South Walle Township. So, it's kind of a combination of it. I think it's probably more comprehensive than most, but um generally it requires a minimum of 10 acres, maximum building height 50, cannot be within 150 ft of a lot line for a structure or 200 ft of a dwelling and needs public water and sewer. Um and then there's a whole list of conditions that they would have to meet as part of a conditional use. So if you have any questions in the meantime, you can certainly reach out. Otherwise, we'll we'll do a little snippet of presentation for the next meeting. of LBPC drafted a model ordinance.

They have not. I think they've had sessions on dealing with various land uses and going out. Um there is a pen future model ordinance that's been out there, but it's not as comprehensive as the one that they did for logistics centers. Um so I think we took a lot of different things that aren't included in a lot like access management. We looked at um the burning requirements I think are more extensive than some of the others. Sound mitigation was probably the same as what you're seeing. Same with the nuisance, the environmental controls, but we also added fire protection um as requirements and aesthetics of the building which is pretty much in all of them as well as emergency management planning. So the emergency management fire design stuff is not in any of the other I'm aware of. So there's certain things they have to incorporate in the building to better prepare first responders that would respond to emergency there just because of how they're usually laid out in the size of them. You don't really see a lot of 10,000 foot data center.

Yeah. But we did not converting a warehouse to a data center.

I don't think so. So I think that I have not looked at the particulars of it, but I believe it was an unmarketable warehouse and they came in and said, "Hey, can you this and I think obviously they probably like most municipalities as of today not have regulations probably hey we want to work this out I don't know that for certain but I would think the exterior of the facility it should be substantially differentists obviously there's firefighting considerations. I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend anything exterior warehouse.

Well, we have looked at how loud are they? Well, They're generally louder than a warehouse because of the cooling systems and and the technology used in them unless you have cold storage or something of that nature. Yeah. Some of that stuff instead of specifying how they should mitigate the noise, just say this is the maximum noise you're allowed. figure out a way to do it instead of telling them what to do, especially if it doesn't work.

Yeah. So that what they have, we do have that a lot of this is actually going to play into the second part of the discussion, but the the draft is basically geared towards our new zoning ordinance where a lot of these things are already considered for other land uses now. So it's not it seems like it's a lot for this one use, but when you look at that new ordinance that's being proposed and being finalized, it It's going to blend in with all the heavier industrial or light industrial buildings that could have this. And some of this stuff came out of Bright Farm when we talked about the exhaust fans green houses. So they just we have a burden on them to meet in a conditional use or special exception that they have to meet these minimum standards. they have to present it on how they're going to meet it or if it's not applicable then the board can decide whichever board it is. If this is actually true that this is not an issue or if it is an issue they've met it or they need to to do more or impose additional conditions to correct it. So it's similar to what you're saying now. It's not saying that they have to do noise reduction systems on each exhaust vent and have a specific basic say shouldn't hear from the property line. You know what? We don't want to hear you. We don't want to know you're there. If you can deal with that, so we don't know you're there. I guarantee you that's not what they want to do. They don't want to do that. They want to spend as little money as possible to get what they want to Unless you put those

kind of

and then the only other part is you should have received a draft of the zoning not the final final graph. You're going to notice some section numbers if you want to take a look at it. The specific criteria is pretty much generally complete as well as some of the sections. I didn't go in and do the finetuning on the numbers just because at this point if we're changing it, I'm not going to keep changing numbers back and forth. Um, and it is a new format. I did receive comments from Art and Bob and uh Steve Deler, so I'm incorporating those on. I will be sending out a draft probably early next week to everybody and then usually we'll have a complete ordinance probably by the May meeting. Uh it'll just be a separate email. If you want hard copies of it, we can do hard copies for those that are interested if there sections. Um, I do have some comments that we'll have to go through and there's going to be some discussion we'll have to have with the planning commission and the board of supervisors as we move forward with it referring to lot sizes, lot minimums, um, how we want to really deal with it and then are we being too aggressive on some of it or are we being not enough? But, uh, I think we had a lot of good comments from everybody so far. So, it's just a matter now of making one document that everybody can look at. The point is everybody has a copy of it now. You're saying they're going to get a new copy.

You will get a new copy with those comments. So if you have anything that you looked at, certainly let me know. Otherwise, you'll be getting a copy.

Yeah. Well, there's going to be two of them. There's going to be clean one and then there's going to be the one with the markup address with the train. you should just be able to go through the market and say, "Oh, yeah, he added what he told me or what I added here." So, don't don't spend too much time going through it that. But, no, it's really procedural wise. I think the first couple articles we've already done as a group and we're good. It's now just specific, accessory uses, and how we're handling the u

the green The tracking will be the new one will have everything deleted. So you're going to see the final there should there's going to be two versions. One will have tracking with color coding. One is just going to be a black document and final format. So on the one that's correct

we've already reviewed it all. Correct. review has been added or changed and depending on how the editing went from the people involved showing the strike or an actual strike out.

I can actually probably put it in an AI thing today and give you a summary of what it does. I'm having trouble sleeping. So, I did that with the aggretainment and agra tourism amendment that we did and it came out like a podcast and there was only one part of the whole like 15inute podcast that was not accurate but the rest of it was like spot on why we were doing it, what it was doing. Yes. That was like mindblowing how creepy it still. I did check it though and that's why I said there was only one section that was not correct.

Yeah. Not pulling out of other sources.

Correct. And it always as my mom called it is taking over. All right. Anything else? Moving on to the next item being action require. June 306. plan 301 August commission. uh road.

There's no expiration.

No, that's removed. Same with the capital. Correct. Yeah, they have they've responded preliminarily to the comments. I have a required meeting on this. I thought questions. The only thing I just want to know, I believe the gentleman in the audience is here because there was a project for zoning amendment request as well as a sketch submitted the applicant request to be tabled and it will be on the agenda for the next month. So it was removed off the table but just wondering why it wasn't there. So next This is the place if you want to know what's going on.

What's that? If you go to the supervisor, you make a motion to adjourn. One thing probably doesn't mean anything, but I will not attend the June meeting. Okay. passage. Oh, okay.

I hope so. Moving out of Seattle, New York, Seattle. Oh, you're actually Anyway, with that I move to Second by all in favor say

I get to start my class on Tuesday starts again the one that I miss