Business Improvement District Board #2 (historic Third Ward) - Regular Meeting

you Thank you.

And to order, Ms. Carmen, can you take the roll, please? Yes, okay.

Member Ann Piper? Here. Sally Pell, here. Nicholas Robinson?

Excused.

I'm not gonna make him excuse. Mark DeRose?

Matt Jarosz is here.

Robert Baumann, he also has to be excused.

He'll be excused.

Patricia Keaton. Here. And Jordan Morales.

Here. Okay, starting with item number one on the docket here, 260622, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for installation of a playground, various recreational facilities and alterations to the comfort station all along Meineke Avenue at 750 East North Avenue, Kilbourne Reservoir Park, an individually designated historic property for Milwaukee Water Works.

All right. So the main thing under our expertise, although we do have oversight on the entire park, is the alterations to the comfort station. So I'm going to start there. On the screen are the photos of its current state. It hasn't been used in quite some time. It is going to be renovated to become accessible bathrooms and a potential concession stand.

Nice.

Here are the current and proposed floor plans showing why it is just not viable to convert it to an accessible restroom with the current layout with the multiple tight turns and doorways. So they will be replacing two windows with doors. For architects... who care about the details, I've included this one, but we'll skip that for now. So, most of the facades are minimal changes other than reopening the windows. This is the south. And this is the primary change. Those two windows are going to be widened and lengthened to become these two doors. They have to be widened to be accessible doorways. It will add a water fountain and push buttons for accessible access. This is the main front. This is where the potential concession stand will go. They're going to operate that via Dutch door. So that door will be changed. And here is the building in its new context. The comfort station is not being moved. Picnic shelters will be added next to it at a one foot distance so there won't be splash back from the roof onto the half timbering of the original. And extensive playground equipment will go in. So on the guidelines for the comfort station, retain existing windows and doors. All but two are being left essentially intact and none of the doors are original to begin with. They are all steel slab doors. Respect the building stylistic period and if replacements are necessary, replacement should duplicate the appearance and design and material of the original window or sash or door. What we have proposed right now are slab doors. They are going to have to come up with a better plan than that, but given the location and use, steel or similarly sturdy doors are appropriate in this case. There's also no details on what is planned for the windows. Additions, technically it's not an addition. The sheds are just adjoining, although they will be very close. A lower roof pitch might be desirable to leave more of the half timbering visible from outside rather than under the picnic shelter, but that's really a judgment call of the commission. and then we will get into the playground. The playground itself is largely a final design, although citing the facilities, would be before us rather than the technical details of the play equipment. The guidelines for new construction are open-ended and the proposal takes up most of the present flat ground on the north side of the park and goes up the hillside to the top with sensory spaces and quiet zones. The hillside on the north will have some slight grading to accommodate a new switchback path up to the top with rest landings and the sensory zones mentioned. Otherwise, it's being left substantially intact. More of the details for the comfort station picnic stations. layout showing the distance. The picnic shelters are planned for a metal roof rather than an asphalt roof like the comfort station. It's reasonably compatible. If it's not bright shiny metal, I'd leave that to the commission. And here is the general full concept design of what we are having. Entrances are staying largely in the same places. Paths are almost all untouched except for this kind of the northwest corner between the purple play area and the enchanted forest where they're putting that round feature. Otherwise... The main change is the switchback trail up to the top. Personally, I think it is necessary for accessibility because the existing path up there is exceptionally steep. More of the details on the plan, enlargement of the basketball courts, Basketball is roughly in the same area but significantly expanded. It is currently a half court. It will be enlarged to one full court and two half courts. Going up the slope with the sensory areas and switchback trail. One of the reading nooks. Play areas. and the grading plan. If you can see the dotted line kind of along the path on the right edge, that is the extent of all modifications except for one flower bed on the hillside that appears to be integrated into the current slope. So staff is recommending full approval of the changes to the comfort station and this concept for the playground. That is it for us and I am sure you will have questions for the proponents. Okay, awesome, thank you.

Is anybody here representing the applicant? Yes, okay, feel free to come up and give us your details, your name and address, if you don't mind.

Thank you so much. We've got a big crew, hopefully able to answer any questions that we might have. My name is Joel Kultenberg. I'm the City of Milwaukee Parks Manager. Okay.

Go ahead.

Kayla Schultz, City of Milwaukee Parks Coordinator.

Matt Winder, associate designer with Kaler Slater Architects.

Peter Sommerfeld, project specialist with Kaler Slater Architects.

Okay.

And this is the park formerly known as Reservoir Park? Still known as. Still known as. Okay, it doesn't even say that in here, so I'm just curious. We have an address, but not a name.

Yep, it is Reservoir Park, Kilbourne Reservoir Park, and we'll retain that even with some branding for the playground being in honor of Stella.

Okay, thank you.

What's the significance of Stella in Stella's playground?

Actually, if we can, invite two more people up. I would love to do that, actually. We have Stella's parents who can tell us a little bit about

about her and yeah that's absolutely fine hi I'm Reesey Schneider I'm Stella's mom yeah I'm Bob Schneider Stella's dad So our daughter Stella was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor in July of 2023. And after her resection surgery, she was left unable to walk, talk, swallow, close her eyes fully. She had bilateral facial paralysis. She was left profoundly disabled. And she's actually at therapies right now. She's a PT and OT. which she has once a week. But it opened our eyes to the fact that in our neighborhood where we live in River West and in the city of Milwaukee, we don't have a place where kids of all abilities and disabilities feel like they belong. A year after she was diagnosed and after she had her surgery, a year later, she progressed to being able to be in a walker. She'd gone from wheelchair to walker. She used those sticks for a little bit, but she hit her brother with them, so we took them away. And now she's largely walking on her own, but it's pretty unsteady. But a year after her surgery, we took her up to Reservoir Park, to playground and park we used to go to all the time. I think it was the first time that she had been there since her surgery. And her brother and cousins who were visiting ran off to the playground that's there now. And I crouched down next to Stella and I said, Stella, I'll get you out of your walker and take you over to the playground. And she looked down at me and she said, playgrounds aren't for me. And so that's when I looked at her and I said, well, I'll build you a playground that is for you. I know that sounds like an insane thing to say, but after dealing with your kid who's diagnosed with cancer and has gone through all of the challenges, you know, as a parent, you'll do anything, anything for them. And so promising to build her a playground seemed like, well, yeah, of course. You know, if she needed my arm, I'd rip off my arm and give it to her. So whatever she needed. So that's what sort of inspired all of this. And we're really grateful to the city and for our partners, Kayla Slater and Ari Smith, in helping to make this dream come true and a place where hopefully everyone feels like they belong and that this place is for them. So thank you. That's sort of the origin story.

Thank you. Awesome story. Thank you.

How's Stella doing now? She's in fifth grade. Okay. And so she goes into her classes. She has some support there, but she's enjoying being a kid. Yeah, good.

Where does she go to school?

Maryland.

Maryland Avenue Montessori. Oh, nice. Great school.

And if you met her, you would know. I mean, part of the reason why this playground is a dragon is that she is fiercely independent and determined and kind of is like we say sometimes she has that spirit of the dragon. And the dragon has been something that she has loved since we can't even remember.

so she's a co-designer of this oh she is ask them yeah the fire slides here that was her idea right and she's already given joe feedback on the enchanted forest right i think it's important to note that there's many co-designers that we started reaching out really last summer and then we had a event at lakefront brewery in november and some additional outreach earlier this year with several different groups of kids with various abilities. And that really helped inform the design that you see there. I was happy to get additional feedback and continue conversations about that, but lots of people have weighed in.

Awesome. Got a question for the project architects. Who have you been consulting with to ensure that this is an accessible playground? It's just out of curiosity.

I'm happy to speak to that and then let the architect speak to the architect part of it. As far as engaging with disability resources, advocacy groups, support groups, and those with lived disability experience, we've met with over a dozen groups including the Audio Braille Literacy Enhancement, Centers for Independence, Islands of Brilliance, to name a few. We had a targeted feedback blitz in which we met with them for hours at a time in order to present at that time which was what was a conceptual design and here where they felt we were not hitting the mark or where other parks and play spaces had not hit the mark and took and developed a whole feedback form that coalesced all of their thoughts, all their feedback to make sure that those were integrated into the design and then work closely with the designers to make sure they were implemented. And we're now on our second set of round of feedback with the same groups to make sure again that we're hitting those marks. And they still are coming back with insight and have been really,

the the foundation for how we can say this is universally accessible and inclusive awesome awesome i would open it up to the oh sorry go ahead i'm just going to add to that too while we have yet like taylor slater here i can speak to any of the some of the specific site challenges and opportunities with there's also someone not here that is worth mentioning which is uh compan which is the world's largest playground manufacturer who is taking the lead on the design of the physical playground components. So there's like a piece here where it's a playground and then there's a site endeavor as well. And again, I'm happy to speak in detail to any of that, but that's the one kind of representative who's not at the table in front of you today. But yeah.

I'll open up to the rest of the commissioners to ask any questions.

Preservation Commission designing a playground. so i guess i just want to kind of confine a little bit to an area that we might be thinking about so you have the existing building which is a interesting uh little building uh and i think the designers have the only concern i might have when i saw i think the plan is it looked like the roofs hit the existing but then when i saw the elevations you're away from it right okay we're maintaining at least the one foot minimum distance between structures yeah are you coming I guess you can get it, yeah, so you can do that. I might do just a little bit more, that would be my thought, if you can kind of.

And that one foot is, so the support structures itself are set within that, and then we kind of leave a little bit, so we do have some room to kind of separate a little bit.

To do that, that'd be the next question, you're not using the house to structure any of your beams or anything like that, so it can be independent. And if that's the case, I just hold it back a little bit more, and whether you want, coverage for raining or something, I guess you can decide on that. And the third ward, some of the canopies on Broadway, there actually is plexi between the end of the... and and the edisons you know so you get lights kind of down there so that's that's kind of nice but i think maybe from an architectural standpoint be you know hey you're making openings larger and so forth and i don't think there'll be any need for sometimes if you do things small you got to find brick and stuff to match but that's not the case here we're basically just making it larger and

cutting it out and then I think Tim you mentioned something about a good quality door right yeah right so needs to be something other than a slab design something we can try to find if there's original drawings but otherwise we can just go with like a five panel door or something like that something like that yeah

reclaim places you might find a historic door or something even and then maybe i guess the last thing i'll say too just architecturally maybe have one comment after that is that the slope of the new stuff as you said very clearly you wanted that to be a little bit more shallow so you could see some of the nice half timbering yeah and i thought yeah you know i mean keeping that same steep pitch it gives it that nice fantasy hundred year old kind of thing this the softer pitch doesn't but um the half timber is pretty nice seeing that so i think that that would be kind of a good way so i think that that makes sense as i looked at that well would there be any other way i think that's probably a good decision uh to go with that and then maybe the last thought or comment i have about this is there anything near And you didn't point out quite as much about how this was gonna be used. What a terrific story and so forth. Are there other parks in Milwaukee kind of like this that are really very, very much focused on accessibility?

I'll defer to Joe, actually.

Yeah, no, I'm happy to speak to that. So it's worth noting, so we're framing this as like the most, right? You know, all of our city parks, county parks, MPS parks meet a bare minimum accessibility standard, but we're trying to push the bar and really expand what that can be to what inclusion truly means in a public space like this. So yeah, a few comps not in Milwaukee directly, but in neighboring communities. So Moss Universal Park, which is being proposed, it's not yet built, but that's also one of the reasons Kayla Slater is brought on here because they're working with that design and that's a county park, but again, they're working with the Ability Center on that. So that's gonna be coming to Wauwatosa. fairly soon, we hope. And then, yeah, just kind of if you look at like Kayla's playground in Franklin, Possibility Playground up in Port Washington, there are areas where accessible playgrounds are built, but nothing in Milwaukee that really, again, pushes that envelope in our opinion.

Okay. Do any of those need like access for a van or, you know, if people are in wheelchairs? Okay, and then that's in here somehow a vehicle can get up closely.

Yeah, a long minor key I think is what's planned.

Yeah, absolutely. And there's some detail to be ironed out there, but our intent is not to create, I mean, we have no intention of of off-street parking. There isn't room. We don't want to take up park space, nor would we expect that you guys would be excited about that. But the intent is to create accessible on-street parking. And so what that looks like generally is just dedicated spots that will be where Frattany intersects with Meineke there. There are some curb bump outs, some extensions, and so on either side of that will be reserved accessible parking spaces. We haven't decided if it'll be all accessible parking or if there'll be a loading zone in addition to some parking, but there will be some combination of accessible parking on street in this case, so yeah.

I got one other thing came to mind here in the third ward where we're doing Catalana Square. Ari Smith is involved in that and what was important to us is kind of the lighting in the park and so forth. Has it gotten that far? Have you talked about path lighting or anything with it? Have you gotten to that point?

Yeah, we have consultant ring and do on board and we're going to be proposing to use some some of the lampposts on site currently will need to be relocated. So we plan on reusing existing light posts where we can and additional light posts will match the harp style fixtures to kind of fill out the rest of the areas and to add lighting where needed.

Yeah, well, that's good. I think with Kahler and Ari Smith and so forth, we'll have, you know, a thousand foot candles just to save some money on fixtures. Okay, great.

I have some questions.

Go ahead, please.

So it's a, you know, it's a fabulous idea. But a number of questions. First of all, what's the cost to, it sounds like this is the first park that is going to be equipped in this way in the city. Is that true?

To this extent, yes. So this is a large playground with a lot of space to explore, to kind of find your own adventure for your kids to choose their own path. So the scale of it is unique. It'll end up being about 25,000 square foot of playable surface.

So that's the next thing is, Of course, it would be wonderful if all parks were like this so that everybody couldn't use it. What's the cost to remake a park like this? You had to do some fundraising or you've donated your time and effort. Kaler Slater is very expensive. Can you tell me how that all works?

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll give a shout out to Reesey and Bobby who have done amazing work on the private fundraising side. You can probably say the exact, I don't know where we're at currently, where we raised a lot of money.

Yeah, we need to do another download, but I think we've raised now $1.5 million towards the project.

What is the projection of the actual cost of this park?

So it's a little bit of a moving target at the moment, but we started with a $2 million fundraising goal. We think that'll get us most of the way there. The playground, in all honesty, is expanded to something that is truly magical and awe-inspiring and is going to be expensive. uh we're waiting in the final numbers on that it may end up being uh yeah north of two million dollars um but one of the things that we also are really proud of is uh they've generated they've got amazing contacts um and there's so many people who are interested in contributing to this uh in kind so there's a lot of construction companies what i'm trying to understand is is that wouldn't we love all the parks to be like this and so it sounds like

90% of it is donated money through events and things that you have done as parents? Or has it coming from donated services? Or is it coming from the city or from Milwaukee Water Works?

There is a dedicated portfolio of mixed funding. So the city has contributed their initial funding of $200,000, which the city often contributes per park project, a number. And then whether it's grants that we've applied for, foundations that have given events, private donations, I think we're well over 50,000 in just single use donations from people who live in the neighborhood or who are very excited about the project. And in addition to that, the in-kind support that Joe mentioned where people, large organizations like Taylor Slater and R.A. Smith and Mortenson are coming to the table significantly cutting what would normally be the cost to put this in. So I think all of those facets together is where that portfolio sits.

And just for context too, I would say this is a five, six million dollar project that's gonna cost us a fraction of that in the grand scheme of things.

So that's what I'm trying to get at is I know in other cities that there are often many parks. Once they get it kind of figured out that, look, the ideal is that all parks should be able to have children with all kinds of needs to be able to use these parks and what we're seeing now is that we have one because of parents and Stella, you know that's making it happen and I'm advocating for Why can't we do this at more parks? And I know that that there's always a shortage of money in terms of county parks. Again, I've made a list here. I thought most of the parks were county. And then there must be a few that are city. More than a few. The county parks are always crying that there's no money to keep it all going. So I guess, how many city parks? Because that's the only thing that I really can advocate for here.

as a commissioner is city yeah how many city parks are there we have 52 city parks uh they occupy um this is a unique space because it's managed collaboratively with uh milwaukee waterworks because it was a functional reservoir obviously um we have a couple parks that are cadish park which is attached to this which has been leased to uh coa uh for for several decades um including those in our parks portfolio we have about 100 acres worth of of city parks um in in milwaukee across those 52 sites so i guess maybe what i and again i have a whole list of questions and i don't want to take up too much time jordan but i i i if you guys have now figured out a formula for the city

and it's a city's contribution is 200,000 and it's really a five million dollar project that with donated services are back to two and a half or whatever million dollars. Why can't we have more, number one? And two is, can you describe what, the swings, what is, What can deal with children that have a variety of different disabilities? What equipment?

I'm happy to answer the first part, if Joe you'll take the second part. The first part of the question I think really comes to the fact that this is a pilot project for the city, right? We are learning a lot more. So Joe referenced Kayla's playground, which was built over 15 years ago at this point. And at that time was the height of accessibility. And what we have learned in 15 years plus this last year and a half of knowledge gathering is that that wasn't enough. And we're now setting a scale that is not replicable but a model that is, that helps us learn what playground equipment is more viable for accessibility and why, how you create accessibility in pathways, how you create inclusivity in side-by-side play. And so while that hasn't existed up to this point yet for city parks, this opportunity with the funders at the table and the resources at the table to be able to say, look what we've done here and how many youth, and it's not just youth, right? One of the things that we talked about with all of our partners is parents with disabilities, a blind parent taking their visually abled child to the park still needs those same services to be able to navigate the park. So making it accessible and inclusive for all, that model is replicable. And we definitely will have to scale it differently than Stella's playground, but we're building that out and we are very confident that this will be a national model to be able to continue to scale these to other parks. Funding is one of those strategies and I would say that those folks that are coming to the table and seeing what it brings and what it doesn't want to bring that to other spaces are going to be innumerable and wanting to come to the table to support this same type of park infrastructure throughout our city.

When will it be ready?

The playground? This time next year, you should be playing on it.

What other hurdles besides HPC do you guys have before you get the green light to begin construction?

That's a great question. Obviously, fundraising is ongoing. We have kind of a... you know, we have some flexibility with when, just in terms of how we're phasing the project, that we have some time still to close that gap, and we're confident that we will. But from a regulatory perspective, HPC is the last? yeah for the most part i mean there is some storm water review there's some city permit review that will happen um the common council has already expressed strong support for this project and so like i can't imagine there's you know shouldn't be any hang-ups there um so yeah i think this is um one of the the last remaining hurdles uh and that that we'll encounter in this process yeah okay so so jordan i just want to just emphasize is that does this go back to common council

It sounds like they also have to apply for permitting with the Common Council.

Do you have to go back? You don't have to?

Not currently, no. We have authority for the private fundraising side to close that gap through MKE Plays and MKE Parks. Again, the council has expressed broad support for it.

Do they have to vote or anything on it?

No.

All that I would ask is that you don't let this idea die. And I know how much you are working on this and what it takes and all of that. But really, both of you working for the city, that would be really remarkable if this could keep going.

Well, and to your point about the what is here, if I can speak just really quickly to that, I know there's a lot to discuss, but to, again, to Recy and Bobby's credit, when they came to the table with this, I pushed back strongly and was... A lot of these playgrounds are... they're full of adaptive equipment right so it's modified it's modified playground equipment to meet a special or unique need um and we wanted to go away from that and focus on the universal right like so more of a universal design approach to playgrounds And so what we're focusing on, you see it's a giant dragon, that creative thematic imaginative play is really an amazing like leveler of the play environment because it allows children to approach it in their own way. It's not prescribed. It's not just go up this, go down this. It's an environment that kids can create their own adventure and create their kind of an individualized play opportunity that meets their own needs. So that's been a strong push of ours since the beginning. And again, to their credit, they were, yes, let's do that. That makes sense. So all the equipment here, it's accessible and inclusive, but we really focus on the inclusive because it's not just modified unique equipment. It's stuff that will appeal to every ability level. in this same space.

Okay, does any of the commissioners have any more questions for this lot?

No, but I'll move to approve with the recommendations that Tim laid out in his report.

Got your motion, I'll see if anybody else is, is there anybody else to speak on this item? You guys are, okay. One last question for you guys before I let you go. Would it be fair to say that this would be, if approved as in your initial design, it'd be like the state of the art, the model accessible playground in the whole state? Would people flock to this playground from all around for kids with disabilities?

Or nationally.

This will be a destination we've already talked about. We would love to present this at National Recreation and Parks Association Conference. City Parks Alliance, Greater Greener, we do want to share this. The parks world is an amazing collaborative industry and we love sharing wins wherever we can and we're really proud of this work and we want people to know about it, so yeah.

I think the city's got the best restaurants, the best cultural attractions, and I think we should have the best park in the state. I'll add something to that if I could.

Bob knows this very well. Milwaukee is a shining star nationally for our park systems. We all kind of know that. We know about John Gerda and what he went through to tell us about what happened for the City Beautiful Movement in the 20s and the 30s. and even up to not too long ago i haven't checked on it recently but i do think we have more parks of square foot population than any city in the country we are the park city so we got to do this this is a great thing let's keep going well thank you guys we'll hear from uh you guys can can go we'll uh hear from anybody else who wants to uh give testimony on this item thank you guys thank you thank you

All right, yeah, anybody else who wants to come up and testify on this? Feel free to fill the seats here. And just say your name and address, if you don't mind. We can start with you, ma'am.

My name is Catherine Hannah, and I own 2334 and 2336 North Bremen. Okay. And I lived there until very recently. And I was even involved when we were first doing this in 1999. And there was a proposal for condominiums instead of a park. And I love how involved the city was with supporting us in preserving our green space. And I think it's safe to say that we can see a lot of people enjoy it. I think that all playgrounds should be accessible for all children and I give huge credit to, and I can't believe it took something like that. That should have happened a long time ago. However, We're pretty excited about this. I mean, gosh, that's a huge investment in our neighborhood, and boy, do we love that idea. We've sort of wanted that for a while. We're a little taken aback by the scale of the development, and we can see why it presents a lot of opportunities. It needs more room. But this is kind of a smaller park. And one of the things that is part of the architectural historically designated thing is the rolling hills and the hill. And it does appear that there's gonna be some changes to the elevation and that the hill might get carved out a little. So we're a little worried about that. On this drawing that we've seen today, there's a lot more trees than on the sketches that I'd seen previously and my husband and I worked with the city to get trees replanted after old growth trees had to be removed. They aged out and they were getting dangerous but we had to come back and request new planting so we are very protective of and it takes a while for them to get shady but kids love to play under shady trees. Our daughter liked this park, but she thought that the expansion was interesting. I was wondering, are there still gonna be any swing sets? Because that is very popular. Every time I'm there, somebody is on a swing set. And I know that that can be restrictive with some kids, so I'm assuming there's also gonna be some more handicapped swing sets. I didn't realize that the bathroom building, as neighbors have requested for years to have opened, was also gonna contain a concession stand. I don't know how viable that'll be, but we're excited about the bathrooms. And in fact, we were always told that there was not a budget to maintain that bathroom. How has that changed?

We heard that they're fundraising quite a bit privately, right?

I understand that the fundraising is for the installation and equipment purchase, but the maintenance is different.

Sure.

So we are definitely, I mean, we want this. Oh, you have no idea how much we want this. But we want those bathrooms open. But we wanna know that they're gonna have toilet paper and that they're not gonna turn into places where kids are.

Fair enough, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So those are entirely reasonable questions. A couple things just to address real quick. The concession is kind of proposed as like a possibility in the future. We honestly don't have a specific plan for what that's gonna look like yet. There's a space in the existing structure that could accommodate that and so we're just planning for that potential opportunity in the future.

You won't need that space to expand the bathroom accessibility?

No, not that space, no. And then so just generally speaking to your, so operations and maintenance-wise, this will be maintained and operated by the City of Milwaukee Parks. Again, this is a one-off, I will say that to you.

But they're gonna have budget for it. Correct. We're in somebody's budget and somebody is gonna show up.

Yeah, I would say we don't have it like a there's not a dedicated line item specifically for this yet. I will say that we do have capacity with an existing budget to manage this. And again, we're part of parks are part of DPW bridges and buildings infrastructure. so broadly speaking uh there's a substantially more capacity than just our parks entity um and so yeah that is our our intent and that will be ours we also because we've got great partners like we we do think that there will be some components uh that of addition like ongoing fundraising that was the idea behind the concessions maybe there's something that a revenue generating opportunity there uh that can help sustain this uh moving forward and again i Recy and Bobby are not going anywhere. They want to see this succeed, and all the people who have contributed want to see it succeed too.

You guys might be able to do some fundraising with a concert or something in that other part of Kadish Park that could be donated to that. You know, we're excited about getting a world-class park installation in our little park, even though it's a little bigger than we were expecting. But we are interested in parking because already we have impacted parking on days when the concerts happen. We love those little concerts. They start early, they end early. It's very nice. It's very family friendly and we really like that about it.

Not this weekend. No, maybe not this weekend.

But generally they're very family friendly and we like that but it does create extra trash and the streets get parked up. A lot of A lot of the houses are in that area surrounding the park do not have off street parking. Our house does not have off street parking. You have what, one stop? So we are interested in like how many people will be visiting our neighborhood and need to be parking? Are we gonna be starting to experience impacted parking? And when you're talking about setting aside handicapped parking spots close to the park, how is that gonna impact everybody that's already parking in that area? And there is parking availability, but they've also changed some of the streets and it can be a little harder now.

yeah i would say generally we feel like there's there's ample street parking um for for what this will need and require moving forward there will be certain times when i'm sure uh you know like a beautiful saturday afternoon in july um i i would imagine there's going to be a lot of interest in this space and so it'll be busier i'm sure than than it is currently going to be parking restrictions are there going to be parking meters or We have not, no, that is not our intent. That has not been part of any conversation yet. I will also say, too, so Bobby is, we have his amazing expertise as a professional. He works in the transportation and kind of the multi-votal pedestrian friendly world and so like we are working to make sure that other modes of transportation can be accommodated bike racks there's a bubbler station uh we're near bus lines there's been conversation about potentially rerouting even uh or not rerouting but um bringing back historic uh bus routes that were a little bit closer to the space um but yeah that's the extent of our parking conversation right now

I'm Christine Prevetti. I have a home at 2358 North Booth. I've lived there since 1982. So I've seen many a thing and plan come and go from the tennis courts. If the wind was behind you, you had a great serve. Otherwise, chase it into Meineke. I remember there have been a lot of efforts to have... Kate said get those bathrooms open and we were always told because of rampant drug use, sexual activity, unhoused people, it was not feasible. The idea of a concession stand that was floated when the former Cream City brick building I think had been on top of the reservoir, it was put down, moved down into the park and that was put out for bid for coffee shops or whatever with no interest. So I'd be interested if that, would be a component if that would be a private contract like Musa's or whatever in the other parks. And the park now is very heavily used and so the idea of those picnic shelters I think would be good next to the revised rest stations. but if they weren't going to be reservable or monitored somehow, I think there'd be a lot of competition from big groups for those, and then who would monitor the reservations. Would grilling be allowed? Things like this. I'm raising more practical issues from what I see in my backyard, basically. Parking during the air show when people go to the top to look at the things, the fireworks, it's impassable. If the park... The play area would be open all the time. I think there would be a lot of pressure on it at night from older children. Social Security might be a bit of a concern there. I mean, I'm supportive of the park. I've donated to Stella's Playground, and I would hope that it would be able to come to fruition. But the idea of it being a county, city, or national attraction, makes me a little concerned. I don't know that huge numbers of people, especially abled children and teenagers and adults at a full court basketball court, would be compatible usage. I'm concerned about that. Marketing that so it is attracting the appropriate children to use it. There's still garbage sitting there from the weekend just from normal parties. So I think all that would have to be stepped up considerably if usage was increased.

Thank you.

So those are kind of my long range concerns. And then now seeing the amount of plastic or surfaces, I'm assuming that'll all be not microplastics or all these new controversial playground surfaces, all that will be in hand.

Yeah, I'm happy to speak to any of those concerns. They're all things that we've had extensive conversation on and love to chat more. If this is the appropriate setting, I'm happy to connect offline and provide any of those answers that you might have if that's more appropriate.

Yeah, I think that would be more, again, a little far field of historic preservation here, but we'll let everybody say their piece. Yeah, go ahead.

Hi, my name's Nicole Heinle. I live at 2312 and 2310 North Bremen. And I just want to say, I love the concept, and now I know where you live because of your house during the River West 24, which I biked past several times. And your purple t-shirts, and I know people that are on either your board or are like staples of donations. Cool. My main concern is the attraction and then right now there's no parking restriction on Bremen at all. And it's double-sided streets for parking. And kind of what they've already addressed is when you said this is gonna be like a national attraction just now, that is concerning for me for parking, for sure. That's my main concern. And then is there talk of dog park potential? Like maybe that's not your part of it, but like is there, cause there was maybe a sketch up of a dog park potential. And that's a concern for sure for me.

That's another meeting.

I have no idea if that's part of it, but it's not.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

So just kind of all of what they've talked about and then the parking, because right now it's nothing. And then is it going to go overnight to like, oh, all of a sudden there's meters. Oh, all of a sudden it's 15 minute parking.

Yeah, or if you are working a second shift or a night job or something and you're parked there all day during the day and now you're getting tickets because now it's restricted parking. That, like the east side? Yeah.

No, there's no intent for that now. Again, there are certain things that are gonna... Do you think there'll be a need for it though?

I mean, if you build it, they will come. Yeah.

Yeah, let's just, we'll reign it in on parking. Okay. Just because that's, yeah, really not our bag, but go ahead, sir.

I'm Charles Woodward, 2334-2336 North Bremen Street. Thank you for the beauty that you're bringing to the park. Yeah, my only concern is that, you know, if you do magical things, you gotta be really careful. I mean, what is the magic gonna do to the neighborhood? Okay, think about it. Okay. You're doing magic because this is beautiful. You gotta be careful. Can you explain that? Yeah. It's your actions cause, actions cause karma. Good things or bad things occur when we take actions. And if we make this a national attraction, then this part of River West is gonna change.

That's not what I have gotten out of this whatsoever. It's called the national model, not a national attraction. There are many, many cities that have done this and Miami Beach as an example has many, many, hold on. The concerns that you have about parking, I mean, it doesn't belong here at HPC, but they certainly are neighborhood concerns. It's a residential area and all of that, and I have hope that the city, your department with other departments, will get this all figured out so that people who have lived there forever are, and I take it you all live there, right? It's not about rental properties and that you are not there. No, I live there.

Both of you also live there?

Or you have rental? Rental now. I have rental. Okay. So in my head, this is a much bigger discussion about people who are actually living there versus people who have rental property there. But in the meantime, Jordan, I defer to...

other departments may to deal with um these um uh logical concerns we'll keep and i apologize for the comment um it's just what i felt and i do support the park okay wonderful okay i'm a support and do we know that the amount of hill

renovations or changes are going to be aligned with the historically designated need to preserve that because we lost some of the hill the first time around.

Yeah no that that I can speak to because that is in within the scope of this this review. So we've gone to great lengths to ensure that that the the topography is preserved. We actually love that from a play standpoint. A lot of this type of playground will come in, flatten everything, and then build crazy ramping systems. They're expensive. There's no play value associated with it, so we wanted to make sure that we retain that topography from a play perspective. So, again, it will look different because it is, you know, the surfacing is changing. We are adding a lot of trees. So it will be a very natural space still. But, yeah, the topography will be preserved. The existing pathways are still going to stay there. We're making some minor modifications to make sure that they're all compliant. They were designed to be ADA compliant. They were designed. They all will be, they're not perfect in use. But yeah, so we've gone to great lengths to ensure that that topography will be preserved.

Perfect. Let me just say one other thing is that if, and this is my last comment, is that If this really, monies are not set aside in terms of safety, drugs, other kinds of undesirable people that start hanging out because you have more benches and you have more shade. I mean I've seen this happen. I hope that you have monies to keep this going at a very high level.

Yeah, I mean our you know, we're not flush with cash like parks everywhere are Pinching pennies everywhere we can but we do have the capacity again. This is a one-off for us. It's this is not something that is We're replicating in mass across our park system As a park model not as a national not a Disney World

but as a model of how to do these types of parks, that if there isn't money put aside to make sure the bathrooms stay clean, there are a number of comments that are perfectly reasonable. So I'm just hoping that there is that contingency fund.

Yeah, absolutely. We've thought through all of these scenarios. We hope most of them don't materialize ever, but we'll be prepared to mobilize accordingly as City Parks and as DPW and as a broader partnership with neighborhood partners as well. There's too many people committed to the success of this project to let it fail. So yeah, we won't let that happen.

Great. Okay. We have a motion. It's a little stale, but yeah. Second. All right. All in favor? Aye. All right. Very good. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much. Item number two, 251648 resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for mothball status at 2544 North Sherman Boulevard in the Sherman Boulevard Historic District for Jennifer Luckett. 10 seconds or less? Yes.

Okay. So Ms. Luckett is in Mothball for this chain link fence that was put up without approval. She is running into issues with her neighbor who is not allowing her to remove the trees that are on their shared property line but on his side of the fence, growing through the fence as you can see here. So she's just requesting a six month extension. to get more time to work with this neighbor to get these trees removed so she can put up a compliant fence. Though she indicated it likely when it comes back up in six months, you know, it'll be early spring. She's not sure she'll be able to get it up then. So we may be looking at having this resolved in about a year, but it will come up again six months from now for review. Yeah, it's bringing up again.

So I'll move for approval.

I'm sorry. I'm Jennifer. Hi. And so basically I already went over there and I, I asked him, was it okay if I, I told him I would personally pay to cut the trees down and I would do.

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, but we're about to approve what you're asking for. So I think we're going to, that's totally fine.

I guess my question is what do I do about the city? Cause I have to go visit them for the same thing. So do, Like I'm not sure if it would, it will happen like it should happen. So do I just pay their fines?

Are you saying that your neighbor won't cooperate? So you need somebody to, uh, give them a little pressure to cooperate or what are you saying?

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Cause he, I told him I would pay to cut the trees now and he, he just went, no.

So can we have DNS, uh, enforce our ruling that the fence has to be changed?

I mean, on the table right now is the mothball. There's not a change to the fence or anything like that. They're just asking for a mothball. Yeah, it's a mothball.

Which means she's not getting fined. She shouldn't be getting fined.

Are past assessed fines ameliorated or...

No, the city, I have to go to court for the city October 15th.

Okay, so it sounds like that aspect has to be dealt with in court, but before us is the mothball steps. Yeah, what are you getting fined for? It's a tree and it's a fence. Sarah, leave it there. So talk to the court about that, I think.

We're making it real difficult.

I don't even know if it will be done within a year.

Because like I told him. Who's fining you?

Our neighbors.

No, the neighborhood services is. I have to go to the municipal court. Yeah, and so he already said he's going to kill me if I step on his side of the fence.

Oh, that's nice.

So I'm trying to leave him alone as much as possible. You know, I'm trying not to step over there at all. So I don't know how else to complete this because I really do want the privacy fence up. Like, he's not just this issue. There are several issues, and I'm trying to just stay on my side of the fence. But I just need you guys to apply some pressure so he can take care of it so that I can... take care of what you need. I don't want to have to keep, I feel like I'm bothering you because I know it's something that needs to be done. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Like, I don't want to come back in a year and it's still not done because he doesn't do the things.

Jordan. Are any of the branches on her property? Because that is a way of dealing with it without getting... Yeah, I believe she's removed everything that's on her side.

But these trees are growing through the fence and on the neighbor's property.

I see.

Yeah. So it's not really the branches, it's the bark of the tree. And so I've already paid half down for stable fencing to put up the new fence. But like at this moment, I don't have any resolution. Like it just doesn't.

City attorney's got to do it. I mean, come on. It's not our job. This is crazy.

Yeah.

You need to call the city attorney. I need to do what? Call the city attorney's office and tell them what's going on.

Okay. Okay, thank you. Just give me somewhere else to go.

Yep, as far as the mothball that goes though, Matt has a motion, right? Do we have a second?

Second.

All right, all in favor? Aye. Okay, wonderful.

Good luck.

all right thank you you guys have a great day thank you youtube oh my gosh 260-559 resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for replacement of a damaged storefront at 1025 1027 west historic mitchell street in the mitchell historic street district for miss uh kanchan a patel revocable trust or for the miss concha okay patel revocable trust there you go

So this is the Google view of a couple years ago. I'm showing both buildings because they have the same ownership and there is an intent to align the bulkhead level so that they match, but it will be an alignment of measurements, not design. Car ran into this building a couple months ago. This is what they've done for the temporary boarding to help the businesses stay up and as best they can. And this is the new storefront design. Dark anodized bronze aluminum storefront, tile details, and a spandrel glass where prism glass would have originally been. They have about two square feet of prism glass left. and it's very hard to get and to cover this much storefront would be exorbitant. Plus the ceilings have dropped, so they're proposing a spandrel glass for that area. Let's get to that.

This is crazy.

So there we go, we have it on the screen. It gives the kind of general character of Prism while being a little more modern. The tile size works. I would say a different tile would be better. I don't think kind of the faux stone treatment is right, like a single color per tile. Could still be a random pattern, but one color per tile. Okay, yeah. With that being said, I'm recommending approval with two conditions, that the trim for the transom area be such that you only see full squares in the spandrel glass pattern and that they find a different tile that's more traditional single-tone rather than a faux stone.

Okay. Okay. Any questions from commissioners?

It was gray, right, that elevated the photograph?

What's it made out of now?

Right there, that's all painted gray up there. It says existing fascia to remain on the drawing on the top right.

I am not entirely sure. I think it's wood. yeah it's been there but it doesn't say repainting or anything like that right no it doesn't uh that upper section is completely unaffected there's no damage whatsoever they're just leaving it okay but they're uh it's coming up yeah the gray section up there they're not doing anything because it's unaffected there was no damage okay a little abrasive that they're gray color but They're leaving it alone. Before that, it was a very bright purple.

So this toned down a bit. Well, listen, the details look fine. And I think the decision about the prism and the spanner glass, we should make them do prism. I think that looks fine. So I'll move for approval.

Okay. Are there any seconds? Second. With conditions.

With the conditions, with the staff conditions.

Okay. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes. All right. Moving on now to resolution item 260608, resolution granting permanent historic designation to the English Evangelical Lutheran Church of the Incarnation at 3509 North 15th Street and excluding the parsonage at 1510 West Keefe Avenue in the 6th Aldermanic District.

I'll open with addressing that. Both buildings are on the same tax parcel. Upon calling the applicant, they specifically requested that the parsonage be left out of the designation. I don't think so because they have a tenant in it. It's a nice building that's contemporary with the church design, but it needs a lot of work. So this is the location, 15th and Keefe. Today it's technically in Arlington Heights, but it's arguably the Borchert Field area too. A few blocks east of the north end of Union Cemetery and right by Keefe Avenue School. So designated it as a site with this boundary using primarily the underlying tax lots. The east 45 feet of these bottom two lots so that we have some site control so that the church will always be visible from Keefe while the house can still have a yard that is not under our authority. So this came in from the church council president and organist in time for this hearing as something that was a surprise to us, but is a great and amazing history here. Founded in 1917 as a literal tent mission right on this same corner, they have not moved since. It is significant that they were founded specifically as English Lutheran in 1917 because immigrant communities throughout the Midwest at that time were still doing ethnic parishes, worshiping in their own languages. This was specifically for the settled second and third generation who didn't have those ethnic ties anymore and wanted to be American but still wanted to keep their religion. They built a small wooden church two years later, and by 1923, six years after founding, they had this magnificent Lannan Stone Church. And part of their history is the evolution of the neighborhood. 1917, this neighborhood was 0% black. By 1960, it was over 50% black. So most of the particularly interesting history gets into the 60s to 80s and 90s. In 1961, they hired Charles Loon, who supported neighborhood integration and served on the organizing committee for Milwaukee, the music school first boycott day in 1964. He also participated in the human chains around the forced busing buses. He was the second pastor to try to integrate the parish. The first one left in less than two years. This gentleman fully pulled it off. Blanketed the neighborhood with proselytization. Opened the Sunday school to everyone. And you can see the 1966 summer Bible camp photo from all of five black families when he came to the church. This is a very clearly fully integrated Bible school just five years later. He also got the numbers of the congregation back up. As original families move away, they lost 45% of their congregation over the course of the 1950s. When Pastor Loon came in, he had the numbers back up 10% in just the first year alone through his integration efforts. Then, We'll get to 1981 in a moment, but there was also Reverend Dennis Jacobson from 1987 to 2013, a founding member of MICA, Milwaukee Intercity Churches Allied for Hope, which has had an amazing impact on this city in the late 20th century and to today. into today. He wrote two books on his experiences on religious community organizing based on his time at that church and with Micah. I have one of them here. They're both kind of hard to research. Everyone calls Pastor Loon very significant in the music school boycott, but it's literally that one sentence, he was very significant. Okay. But yes, I finally got to the journal saying he was on the organizing committee for the first boycott day. So I think that really settles it. Some of the North called him essentially a pivotal figure in that protest. He was in the protests, stopping the intact bussing buses from moving. And then 1981, Ernest Lacy. Ernest Lacey was arrested for sexual assault at 26th and Wisconsin in 1980. Subjected to prone restraint with the substantially the same techniques used exactly 40 years later on George Floyd to the same results techniques which still have not been banned by nearly any police force in this country. Incarnation hosted almost all of the community organizing around that, that got the officers charged and tried and found guilty at the Fire and Police Commission at least. Criminal charges were dropped, but one of them was at least, three of the five officers did get some penalties. This incident was referred to on CBS News Sunday morning in 1981 as police van sudden instant death syndrome. On the left, one of the marches down Wisconsin Avenue where the incident occurred. On the right, Ernest's mother addressing the crowd inside Incarnation at one of the rallies and organizing events. So they played a pivotal role there and that also resulted in advancing, which heavily involved Michael McGee Sr. who a few short years after this successfully ran his first Aldermanic campaign based on his experience with this community organizing. So somewhat like the last church reviewed, it is a Hugo Heuser again. Second German Methodist was an alteration project of his. This is an original of his. He is prominent, known for over 300 churches, almost all in the Midwest, 12 in the city, at least 30 statewide, almost always landing stone, always going for this crenellated details and subtle half timbering, which I do not have in this angle, but you will see in another church on the next slide. Tiled roofs. Tiled roofs, extensive stained glass. So he's a master of the Neo-Gothic. Most of his career was indeed churches, but in his time at Eschweiler, he created the Wadhams Pagoda Oil Station. Designed the stained glass, the furnishings, and the light fixtures for nearly all his church commissions himself. Here are two of the other prominent church. Our Savior's Lutheran on Wisconsin Avenue, his final project. and Christ UCC on Oklahoma. You can see the half-timbering cross gable, which is one of Heuser's key features in his neo-Gothic churches. Christ is one of his more neo of the neo-Gothic. Incarnation is more a literal interpretation of the time period, but still neo-Gothic. So I realize I somewhat rushed through that because we've had a long day, but staff is recommending approval based on four criteria. Cultural and social history, the English Lutheran origins, addressing Arlington Heights demographic transition, school integration in the city, and community organizing. Its association with Charles Loon, pivotal but forgotten figure in the music boycott, and Reverend Dennis Jacobson, co-founder of MICA, whose work contributed to Milwaukee's civic and social development. F6, association with an architect that changed the character of the state or the city, with with over a dozen churches known in the city and basically being the architect to go to for Lutherans. He has had a major impact on the city for the appearance of Lutheran worship. and F9 neighborhood landmark. It is the only building of any architectural heft on this stretch of Keefe. Keefe Avenue School is nice, but it's deeply set back behind a ton of trees and you can barely see it at this point. This is the landmark on Keefe.

Okay, any questions from commissioners? I believe we have to open this up to a public hearing. Is that correct? Yeah. So I'll hear a motion to open the public hearing. All right. Second. Awesome. All in favor. All right. The public hearing is now open. Do we have anybody here to testify on this matter?

Hi, my name is Gerald Resch, R-O-E-S-C-H. I'm at 6937 North 98th in Milwaukee. I was baptized at Incarnation in 1944 and instead am a member. I'm currently the vice president of the congregation and am proud for the fact that what we wanna do is make it a historical, because we can then make it easier for us to get an interior elevator on different projects. We came close because we were classified as a historical black congregation, being a congregation of mostly people of color since basically 1961. But there were a lot of other people, other congregations going for the same thing that already were historically black in their own communities. So we were kind of pushed to the back and we didn't make the cut. But we have no chance, no idea of ever moving. There was, as the neighborhood changed, there were talks about moving to the Lillywhite suburbs. We decided not to, and I am glad we didn't because we are serving the community and the 53206 area code or zip code is one that is definitely in need of all the help it can get, not because we don't have great people there, it's because we don't have great money there. But What our congregation wants to do is to make the people in that neighborhood realize important people that they actually are. So that's basically where I stand.

Awesome. Thank you. Anyone else on this? Do commissioners have any questions?

I'd like to know, you can give us the inside track on why you're not including the parsonage or the home in this historic designation.

There I don't know the details, but in some of the windows in that, I don't know if it shows on here, but some of the second floor windows have rounded tops which was definitely the style in the 1920s when artisans could do that without thinking twice. But it's the little things like that that we aren't exactly flush in money. and little things like that would cause us problems to keep that updated. All the details I really don't know myself. but that's the first thing that comes to mind for me.

So the idea is you could do renovations on the house without the historic guidelines.

Right, right.

But the house is going to stay in place also?

Oh yes, definitely. The main use of that house right now is for our food pantry. We've got, I don't know how many freezers in that house. our electric bill you wouldn't believe but it's there for the community as we are okay nice

Gotta be careful with that. Last year, somebody applied for designation of what that liquor store on, and we designated the two buildings next to it too, just for fun. No, but we'll leave this one alone. All right, anything else?

Yes, it's a nice house, right? Compared to the history of the church.

Was it built at a separate time?

It was built roughly the same time as the church, as the Parsonage.

So then why isn't it historically significant?

I reviewed the nomination as submitted.

But it was built as beautiful as, and with the same architect? At the same time?

It's right there.

Oh, I see that. But in there, it looks like it might have been built at a separate time. But you're saying it was built at the same time that the church was built?

It was approximately the same time. I couldn't guarantee.

I'm saying so that same architectural beauty should be in this house. It was created at the same time as the church. And besides the fact that it needs a ton of renovations, that's what I'm hearing. That it would be too costly.

It doesn't need a ton of renovations. It's just that because it's stucco versus landing stone, because around the windows is wood, those type of things, you're going to run into some changes. While with the church itself, we're looking at limestone for the entire building. and stone window sills. we wouldn't want to change them and really don't have to.

It seems sadly that the church and the house are very different. And this architect specialized in churches. That's very different than an architect who specializes in houses. But do you think it was the same architect?

No.

That I couldn't really say.

I wish I recalled. I'm not sure they actually named anything but a contractor on the permit.

They probably just bought that house from Sears or something, you know? It doesn't look like it. Yeah. Yeah. In any case, it's not nominated. Yeah. So... with there being nobody else to testify on this story. Yes, ma'am.

Let me just ask another question. With the church that you have voluntarily nominated, do you plan on doing work with the church in terms of repairs? Is that the motivation besides the fact that it's a piece of history?

Repairs that we have to do is like on the bell tower, the roof there, which wouldn't make any difference to any sight line unless you're in a plane going over it. And there are some water leaks that wouldn't, It's basically the way we would be sloping the lawns around it. Again, it wouldn't be anything to the building itself other than perhaps on the inside trying to stop those leaks.

So it's not about tax credit? I'm sorry. Tax credits.

It's the black church grants. That's what they're going after. That's what he said. So they needed to be historically designated. That's the motive. So I think it's a good idea. I think those grants are accessible. I think you should go for it. And I would move to approve this designation.

But, Patty, let me just ask you this. So with the grants from black churches, you are able then to do some of these repairs that you want?

Well, no, they're... Maybe I misspoke earlier. We were going for a grant with the national, I forget the exact name, but it was basically historically black national churches. And we didn't get that grant. One of the reasons was that the city at that time had not named that our building was a historical building.

Okay. So that makes now I understand. Okay.

Okay. I need a motion to close the public hearing. All right. Second. All right. All in favor. Aye. All right. And now do we have a motion on the, on the underlying matter?

Yes, so moved.

Okay, second? Second. All right. All in favor? Aye. Excellent. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Good luck.

All right.

Is this same architect the one who's designed the church in Bavia they want to tear down across from Humboldt Park?

No.

It looks similar.

It is somewhat similar, but yeah, that one... This one's, that one on Bayview, while very nice, I don't want to insult them, it's no Hoyser.

Very good. All right, item 260613, resolution relating to certificate of appropriateness for a new rear deck and new patio doors at 2328 East Back Bay Street in the North Point South Historic District for Brew City B&B's Company.

Okay, thank you. So we've got the Charles Sprague Forsyth House, 1896 Colonial Revival. The proposal is to enlarge and essentially put a brand new deck at the rear and remove a non-historic bay window so you can see the existing conditions on the left um went through the permits no indication of when the bay window was added or or when the non-code compliant rear steps were installed there's no railing and there's a drop off off the side of this to get into the if you fell off you'd end up in the the well for the basement door No railing at all. So the proposal is on the right. It would include removing that non-historic bay window and adding solid wood French doors along with this modification would include removing that non-historic vertical wood siding and continuing the clabbered down to the level of the deck. It would be cedar decking. The deck would be 36 inches tall, have cedar decking, four by four posts with top caps. The balusters would be turned wood balusters that match the design found on the front of the house. with molded two by four top and bottom rails. And the skirting in the description was described as vertical wood skirting painted white. They're showing a sort of lattice design here, so I'll just work with her on finalizing those. This is an AI rendering showing. what this would be but the overall deck size would be 19 feet wide by 20 feet out it would have stairs that would face east and this was just an example of of a solid wood door that she had provided so either doing a full light or a divided light i think would be adequate and and staff can work with her on finalizing those details. The preservation guidelines for the district recommend not making additional openings or changes on principle elevations. This would be in the rear, not visible from the right of way and staff feels it would be substantially an improvement over what's there now. So staff is recommending approval with our standard wood condition and the second condition just being that the applicant works with staff to finalize the door selection and the design for the balusters and the rails.

Okay.

For the decking, tongue and groove decking or? I think cedar tongue and groove decking would be appropriate here.

Okay. Yeah, much better concept than, this was a different house the last month, right, that we saw a different AI concept. This one's much better. All right, I'll open it up to commissioners to ask questions.

Is there somebody here representing the agenda?

The applicant's here. Feel free to come up. Feel free to come on up. Yeah. And just say your name and address, please.

Shalonda McQuarrie, 2108 North Dr. William Felason Street. Okay.

All right. Does anybody have any questions for the applicant? All right.

I have a question. Go ahead. In this rendering, it's showing, I believe, that all of the windows are changed. Is that correct?

That's just the AI. AI did that. It wasn't me.

Okay. So all of these, that's fine. So all of these windows are going to stay the way they are? Yes. And just these doors are going to change?

Correct.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay.

But again, we're looking at the one on Back Bay. Yes. Correct? Yeah. And you are living there? This is your home? No, I bought it. I don't live there. You bought it? Yes. But you don't live there? No.

Okay.

Okay. Anything else?

Looks good. I'll move for approval.

Okay.

Do I have a second? Second.

With the conditions, with the staff conditions. Okay. Second?

Second.

All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All right. Thank you. That was nice and easy. Let's go on to 260623, resolution relating to a certificate of appropriateness for a detached garage at 1060 East Juneau Avenue in the First Ward Triangle Historic District for WSP Lion House Great, thanks.

So this is the GP George P. Miller House, 1887, Grand Queen Anne. A few months back, in May, I believe, HPC looked at the demolition of this 1960s attached garage addition that's circled in red. and the approval was granted by HPC for removal with the understanding that they would likely come back for approval for a detached garage in the future. So that's what we are looking at today. This is an aerial showing the Miller House in context of the historic district. The approximate location of the garage is outlined with this orange rectangle. They are proposing some lot line adjustments, some certified survey maps to adjust the parcels how they are now. So just bring that up in context. With the lot line adjustment, the northern portion of both the Miller House property and 1648 East Juneau, which is now a parking lot, the north section of that would be chopped off and added to 1123 East Knapp, which is presently used just as a parking lot as well. but the portion that would be removed would include where this new garage would be located. So there would need to be an access easement between these parcels to allow access from the Juneau parcel to get to the garage, because the garage will be facing west. So it'll need to enter this the Juneau parcel drive to be able to park the vehicles on the parcel that would then be 1123 East Knapp. So a section of the Miller House is being subdivided off essentially. These are existing site plans showing the back of the Miller House. It is adjacent to the parking lot on Juneau, and then the parking lot that's accessible from Knapp. There's a grade change there, so there is an existing retaining wall which would remain and become essentially part of the new garage. a section of the new garage. But then the site plan, proposed site plan showing the new construction. The garage as proposed is essentially two sections, if you want to think of it that way. The main block, the overall garage is 30 feet, eight inches wide by 44 feet deep. The western section of the garage is the primary block, and that would be 28 feet 4 inches wide. So the secondary section in the rear is a one-story addition. The gabled section is the western section, which would be clad in cream brick. Side gabled, that section would be 19 feet tall, have wide overhanging eaves with cornice returns and a dental cornice. This is the primary facade facing west, would have two overhead carriage-style garage doors. Each opening would be topped with a brick soldier course header, and it would have a decorative rounded window in the gable, carriage lights on three of the four facades. This is the east facade. This has a brick water table and then a section that is clad with Portland stucco, which is infused with acrylic. It would have a flat roof, EPDM flat roof on that section, and then you can see the gabled portion behind it. This is the south facade, so this would be facing Juneau with one personnel door with a transom light and the dental cornice, and then the stuccoed section in the rear This is facing north, so this would face the parking lot that is accessible from Knapp Street. You can see the retaining wall, so there's a great difference. There would be a personnel door that would be lower, so the garage would be accessible from that Knapp Street parking lot. They would likely need to hatch off or lose a couple parking spaces from the existing lot to make this accessible and not have cars parked right up adjacent to that door. and it would have two, or excuse me, three solid wood one over one double hung sash windows on this facade. There are renderings of the front and back. A rendering of the south facade. Should note also that this garage will be minimally visible from the right of way. It'll be set back about six feet from the house, but these are very long lots, so it won't be very visible from any of the rights of way. This is the north facade. And then details of the openings. The four criteria for construction are siting. The garage will be sited behind the Miller House, six feet, four inches. It will be the only detached garage in the historic district, though historically there had been carriage houses and garages in the district. The scale, including the overall building height and bulk. The garage is larger than many residential garages, but it does fit the scale of the grand mansions in the first ward historic district. uh the form including the massing of the new construction being compatible with surrounding buildings the garage will have a rectangular form and gable roof on the primary block they're both gabled and flat roof flat roofs in the historic district, so it fits the form of the district. Finally, materials, the garage would be clad with clean brick matching many of the other structures in the historic district. The windows and doors would be solid wood and are designs that respect the period of the historic district. The fiber-infused hard coat Portland cement stucco isn't a material that I think that we've seen often, at least not with the acrylic. but it is a hardcore Portland cement system rather than an EFIS. And then it'll have an asphalt shingle roof and a rubber flat roof, both of which are found in the district. So staff is recommending approval with our standard wood condition. With the condition, I should have added that the design called out, fiber cement, trim and cornice and fascia, which isn't a material that HPC has approved. So staff's recommending that that be either natural wood or smooth finished fiber cement, fiber cement rather than engineered wood, I should have said. The third condition to work with staff to finalize the garage door, personnel door, windows and light, carriage lights, and that no termination bars on the flat roof will be visible from the ground. Okay, I assume you're the applicants?

Yeah, I'm Gina Mitnacht, 9825 North Valley Hill Drive, Mequon, and I'm president of the company that owns the properties.

Awesome, and you, sir?

Cory Didier, contractor.

Okay, do you guys have any issues with these conditions?

No.

No, okay. Any questions from commissioners? No, all right, do we have a motion?

Move to approve.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. All right. Thank you. There you go. All right. We'll take items seven through 22 as a unit. Do we have, these are staff approved COAs. Do we have a motion to approve?

So moved.

All right. Do we have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

All right. Review and approval of the minutes from the August 3rd meeting. These were distributed. All commissioners have had a chance to look at these. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes?

So moved.

Do I have a second? All right, all in favor. Aye. All right, moving on to item 24, resolution relating to the certified local government review of the National Register of Historic Places nomination for the Greyhound Terminal and Office Building, Clark Oil Building at 633 West Wisconsin Avenue in the 4th Aldermanic District.

All right.

Can I just... Why is this now after all of these, after the minutes, why is this?

I don't know. That's how it usually is, isn't it?

Huh?

That's how they usually are for new business.

Is that what this is?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Okay.

Yeah.

All right. So I will open by saying that this is not an architecture nomination.

No. Surely not, yeah.

It's not a terrible building, but it is not an architecture nomination. This is for mid-20th century transportation history in Milwaukee.

And who's submitting this? Heritage Consulting Group, who is that?

I believe Jeffers owns that company. I believe he also owns this building.

Ah, so he wants tax credits. Before we go through the history, you said it is not up for historic designation.

No, for architectural.

I see, but you are going to review this for?

Yes, it's submitted for historical significance, not architectural.

I see.

And who was the nominee? Josh Jeffers, I believe.

And he owns this building? Yes. Got it.

Okay. I'm using the applicant's PowerPoint and all of you know where this is. They're nominating the entire footprint of the property.

Okay.

Current photos of the building.

Mm-hmm.

General floor plans, some of the interior features. I recently spoke with the preparer and she has noted that the Greyhound section is in somewhat disrepair and full of junk lately, so they apologize for that. More of the Greyhound area. Floor plans, office tower. Rise of buses. Yeah. Okay. Rise of buses became popular in the 20s. By 1931, Greyhound was serving Milwaukee at roughly at a similar location at the North Shore Line Terminal. Our streetcar network started replacing some of the streetcars with buses in 1926. 1936 Greyhound announced an addition to their own original shelter. Eventually they moved into the public service building, which is the WeEnergies building. Bus services became the primary mode of public transportation with 146,000 annual passengers by 1940. And 1946, all of the inter-urban routes from Milwaukee Streetcar, Timor were sold to Greyhound. 1954, Milwaukee had three bus depots used by three different companies with major passenger and luggage mix-ups. Greyhound with the interurbans and the public service building, Peoria Rockford at the Union Bus Depot, and Badger Bus had its own depot, which they all still had until very recently. 1964 plan for what would become I-7, 94 and 94. Construction of these freeways began in 52. National Highway Act of 56 further enhanced intercity busing operations to compete with railroads. 1959 and 69, over 75% of the Wisconsin interstate system completed. Downtown parking became an issue as new traffic came in with the expressways and people were driving rather than taking public transportation to work. 1957, the mayor put out a directive to start building large consolidated parking pavilions, and this at the Greyhound Terminal was one of the first ones attached to a major office tower downtown, beating the M&I building and being barely after Marine Bank. So this is an excellent representation of post-war transportation efforts in downtown Milwaukee. Provided modern facilities for three private intercity bus companies and added much-needed off-street parking for Westtown. Attached office building became a recognizable landmark for passengers, lessening confusion. 1962, Greyhound worked with Bloomfield Building Industries of Memphis and hired Memphis firm Robert Lee Hall and Associates to design the building. Bus terminal portion of the building opened in February 1965, serving over 200 buses per day between Greyhound, Wisconsin Coach Lines and Peoria Rockford Bus Company. Featured many subsidiary offerings like a post house snack bar, Package Express, Greyhound Travel Bureau. This was full of services for all the passengers almost bordering on travel agent and travel planning services from Greyhound. Office tower opened the next year with 180,000 square feet of leaseable space. Building kept getting sold, eventually passing to Emery T. Clark, president of the Clark Oil Refining Corporation, our one major oil company here, and became generally known as the Clark Building, at least for the office tower portion. It was heralded as a catalyst for additional private downtown development, although not that much of that ever really happened in Westtown. The city was not directly involved in the building's construction, but it was part of a general plan for a consolidated a transportation hub based on Grebe's new Union Station, which is the site of the current intermobile station, along with the public service building, which was still serving buses and streetcars at that time. So Greyhound Terminal and Office Building became one of the critical reasons for the focus of this area as a transportation hub. Greyhound stayed in the building until 2017 and Clark owned it until 20, their portion until 2017. So staff is recommending we support this for its, support the nomination for its significance in the transportation history of the city.

All right, go ahead. Do we have a form?

Yes. We've got five. Oh, sorry. Any questions on this matter?

I have a question. Is it going to be repurposed? Is that what we're...

I believe so. They don't have to tell us and they rarely do.

Did you say that the bus terminal and the office tower were built at the same time by the same architect and it was all one development?

It was all one development. The office tower took a year longer, but it was all one architect, one plan.

Is it connected? Like on the second floor? Can you walk through?

That I don't know. I don't think that was actually addressed. I would assume so because it was intended as parking for this building in addition to being the bus depot. It would be odd if it didn't because it was intended as the parking structure for this building. Well Sally, let me look at the very last page and maybe I can answer your question. Thank you. Nope.

No, nothing's in there.

Nope.

All right. Any motions on this one?

Do you need a motion from us?

What do we need a motion from you for? Relating to the certified... Approve the nomination. Yeah, to support the nomination for certified local government...

right yeah yeah yeah you are required to vote on these or we lose our status as certified right so yeah no not under this chairmanship no more we're not going to lose our certification all right are you ready yeah so so move okay do we have a second

Second.

All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Can I borrow your pen? There we go. Thank you. All right. Moving on to item 25, resolution relating to the certified local government review of the National Register of Historic Places nomination for the Milwaukee County Department of Welfare at 1220 West of Leech Street in the 15th Aldermanic District. Before we get into the history of this, we just recently heard all the history on this building, didn't we?

We, yeah, locally designated it like a year ago. Okay. So I can... Thank you. Move it along a little bit.

Yes.

So this is built as a Schuster's in 1910, expanded in 1923. They are listing it under criteria A for its history and its association with being the Milwaukee County Department of Welfare. So its period of significance is when the Milwaukee County Department of Welfare moved in in 1963. and goes up to 1986, which is when they did the last renovation, major renovation, and that's the interior was renovated in that year, and most of those finishes are what remains on the inside now. So it's listed not for its architectural significance, but for its criterion A for social history and politics and government, for its association with the growth of important welfare programs in Milwaukee County. um this we know the location on bleach just on the west side of i-43 the site boundary the boundary of the nomination is the boundary of the parcel this is the exterior if you haven't driven by over here recently it is going undergoing a renovation that we we also reviewed a number of months back to be workforce housing and affordable housing. So it's all fenced off. Gorman and Company is doing the work over there presently. So these are older exterior photos. uh... the interior or many to me that it would be in the attempt at maccom uh... well it's yeah i mean it's coming in from uh... heritage who did those were consultants consultants uh... they prepared the nomination uh... to the interior finishes are largely from that nineteen eighties uh... renovation uh... really the only thing left from this period uh... association with schuster's is the uh... the escalators, and I think a few floors in the basement. We've been through the history of Schuster's, built by Brust and Phillip, and then they did the addition, which doubled the size in 1923. store closed in 1961 and the milwaukee department of welfare moved in in 1963 they were located in cramped offices in the county courthouse urban renewal and federal highway projects were taking place the building of the freeway adjacent to this site so this was a central location from which to offer public services and public housing projects displaced residents Nearby in Bronzeville, during the 60s and 70s, this was a site of protests and sit-ins in response to the lack of cash assistance and discriminatory eligibility requirements. There was a strained relationship between the county department and the citizens. There continued to be tensions between the citizens and the county with the services that were provided. Investigative journalists in the 1970s exposed the inner workings that showed there was mismanagement in legal practices conducted by the department. including scams, folks selling their food stamp benefits to buy bus tickets or drinking money, county staff that were taking extended trips during the workday, lost paperwork, and general ineptitudes. In response, there was calls for welfare reform. Starting in 1974, there was a five-person committee appointed to see if the state-controlled welfare system was viable. Eventually, bills were passed in the state that allowed the Legislative Audit Bureau to perform audits of county welfare departments with counties of populations over 100,000. every three years by the 1980s there was vast welfare reform the period of welfare entrenchment and regressive policies due to the growing resentment towards welfare programs which resulted in federal and state level shifts in economic policy initiatives and federal funding was cut by 9.3 million dollars in 1983 leaving the states to make up the the difference so the It was sort of the rise of the welfare state, starting with Lyndon Johnson's war on poverty. And then by the time the Reagan administration was in power in the 1980s, the welfare state was vastly curtailed, cut. which coincided right around the time that this building was renovated and the end of its period of significance. So staff's recommendation is to support the National Register nomination under Criterion A for its role in politics and government.

Okay. All right. Any questions? Do we have a motion?

I move to support the National Register nomination of the Milwaukee County Department of Water at 1220 West Blair.

Excellent.

Second.

All right, all in favor? Aye. Excellent. All right, any updates and announcements? Same one.

You should be hired to be part of their market. Yeah.

All righty. Anything else from the commissioners? All right. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Do we have a second? Second. All right. All in favor? Aye. All right. That's it.