Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Good evening.

Good evening to the finance committee meeting on Thursday, 04/30/2026. We are in a small conference room in the town hall. And this

pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, one god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

So this evening, we have our preterm town manager, mister Perkins. I'm making a weekly Thursday meeting with the finance. We we appreciate all the work he has been doing and we'll let you begin.

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan. The only update on the budget I have is

it

is still a work in progress. We have it's taken shape. I've had the opportunity to seek input from each member of the finance committee, and I want to thank every member for taking time to meet with me and go over any of the deficit issues or potential or contemplated cuts. I believe it would be ready to go for presentation on Monday night. We're still impact bargaining with the GMAG union.

We have come to a memorandum of understanding with the clerical union. We've gotten MOU with the police union. Just need to be signed. The selectmen have to actually sign the police union one because they're the appointing authority. The clerical one just came in late this afternoon. That will be signed by myself. Probably presented at the May 11 meeting. Again, they are contemplated cuts. I'll mention it Monday night. My perspective in looking at the budget is obviously $3,300,000 is a big number.

And I tried to look at those cuts with input from yourselves, select board. I think one of the number one reasons or one of the perspectives I think is probably most important. If we could make the cuts and make them from the perspective of a taxpayer, I would like that taxpayer to live in town, experience the town and not realize we just had a $3,300,000 cut. If we could make the cuts based from that perspective, I think that's a good approach to looking at how to address the deficit. And that's what I've done.

I know I've expressed that to most of you. So as far as the budget goes, it is the presentation is complete. I have discarded the previous budget book in the way it was done and created by a third party. The product that I'll present on Monday night is Town of Middleborough created. It is not a product by a third party vendor.

I think from the input that you've given me when you've seen it, I think it's a more clear and concise approach. Again, I'm going to present it in presentation format on Monday night to expedite going through a 100 something page document. I think people really just want to know what the cuts are and how we got to zero addressing the deficit. And then Tuesday, hopefully by Wednesday, I will add in the supporting documents that will be in the presentation, but I'm going to stick them at the end. I really just want to get through the cut.

So that's how I plan to give the presentation. You've all seen it. Presenting it without interruption is about thirty minutes. And then I imagine we'll have a question and answer period for the time after that. But that's the Select Board's domain.

I would ask I'm going to ask the Chair if she can allow just the presentation and then people can write down any questions they have and we can go back and look at anything that comes up. My hope and intention is that it's again, concise, all the numbers will be there. They're not just numbers on a page. They're the actual Munis computer documents that are taken directly from the computer system that the town of Middleborough uses. So there are numbers that people can look at and understand.

They're real time. There are some little caveats that I'm going need to discuss, little particulars and idiosyncrasies with looking at it. The document, the budget part of it, the actual budget pages are they were printed anywhere from last week until tomorrow. So they're real time. So they're actually the 26 expenditure line is real time.

So if you go and look at it a month from now, don't expect that number to be the same number. But I also believe it's more informative and people are going to actually see the numbers. And I think that's the best product to put forward, especially after having so many discrepancies in the previous budget book. So that's what I have for a report on the budget. One other thing I wanted to follow-up on, if I may, I know agenda item wise, it was budget.

But because of the tower truck being out of service, it came up last week. I've spoken with chief Fontaine. He is in the process of he has one quote quote from Bulldog Fire Apparatus. That's the high one. He's trying to beat it.

Fleet maintenance in Middleborough should have us a quote hopefully tomorrow. And then the third is Greenwood Fire apparatus. They came down today and they're going to give us a third quote because it's significant in an emergency repair, I thought it was best business practice to get three quotes and then present the low quote to you and get that hopefully. I know we're not meeting next Thursday. But I do think when I get those three quotes, time is of the essence.

It is an emergency piece of equipment. It is emergency repair and I'll be looking for you to authorize to tap into the Finance Committee Emergency Fund to be able to make that repair. I don't know when you're going to convene yet next to be able to talk about that. So that's just what I put back to

you. I

heard you say we're not meeting next Thursday.

Well, we had mentioned when we met today, you were thinking about maybe once the budget presented. Again, it's still a fluid budget. There are still other things I am looking at to save money to hopefully go back and restore some positions. I will continue to do that until January until June 1, town meeting, until the budget is actually set. So again, everything is being contemplated, but at least we have that baseline and we're at zero and anything extra coming in to add to our revenue and to restore any positions that will be, I think, something I can update you with.

I don't know what you're planning on to have a schedule for finance committee once the budget is presented prior to town meeting.

My thoughts, the committee is going to hear what you say on Monday. We've already put out an agenda for Monday where we can come back in if all the questions are done with the select board meeting. I'm sure there'll be discussion. I'm sure I'm not sure. There could be discussion that occurs when we come back. And it and they also require that those questions may have to come up on the regular Thursday meeting, if that's something you could give.

I can absolutely attend, especially if we need to address this repair. Another question I have, I am going to provide the select board members the actual document of the presentation that will eventually be put online as the new budget book. That's getting put in their packet tomorrow. That night, Monday, would you like to have one hard it's like you said, I don't really want to waste all the paper. Do you want one hard copy? Or how would you like me to give it to you and the members of the Finance Committee?

Well, it's only one hard copy.

Well, I can send it to you e mail on Tuesday morning, if that's something. I mean, if you want to walk out of the selectman's meeting with the copy, I can give you the copy, you guys can work off that. I mean, it's going to be a lot of paper.

We're going to

come back in. Okay. I anticipate

unless they say no. Come back after your presentation, they have a high cough in front of us, I think, would be useful.

That's what was thinking. So

that would

be Okay.

And then

I will try to make six cough. It's like I said, it's going to be a couple of reams of paper. So Okay. All right. I'll try and

do both sides to save. So we could if we have a meeting scheduled for a week from

tonight, you'd be able to attend? I would.

And it would also may allow us to have the opportunity to have this tower truck.

Yes. So we should might

put that as a possible agenda item.

Yes. I would I would I would ask you respectfully to make that an agenda item and a possible vote to allocate money from the emergency fund that you oversee to repair of Tower 1. Matt?

Yeah. Thank you, mister chair. So when you say, like, you're go through reams of paper. So my understanding, like, the presentation is going to be like what we saw when we met with you. You're going to have

the Munis reporting documents along

with the

slides. Okay. Every department gets a slide. And the slide is cut, no cut, what the cuts are, what the request was in the old budget book. Right. This is another idiosyncrasy that people need to understand. In the Munis actual sheets, you're gonna see a 27 request. That's the new request with the cut based on the old budget books number that was not good. So you're going to see '26 actual, '26 projected number for current fiscal year and then the '27 recommended. So when you look at the cuts, the cuts will be, oh, it was a huge cut.

No, it was from a different number. It might not math from '26 to '27 because I didn't the munis system, which I think is very transparent, doesn't show the requested '27 from the old budget book. And that's what I was operating from. That's where the deficit emanated from. And I took those numbers and I applied them to the actuals that we have in the financial record keeping system that we have today. So you'll see a true number backed up by historical documents and expenditures for going back to 2025.

And if I may, just speaking of that. So as you are aware, we met yesterday, and I just wanna say thank you for putting it in you know, like, taking what was previously a work of fiction and creating work of nonfiction, if you will. It was very helpful having Munis right there so we could see in real time, like, hey. Wait. This is this is what it looks like.

This is these aren't fantasy numbers. They're real numbers and supported by the database, the municipality. So it was really helpful to have that as a backup as you were going through and presenting the budget. I think everybody else who sees it, I think, is going to feel that it's very helpful as well.

It is. I actually got the idea from when doing research for some of the numbers I was looking at. I was looking at different towns, especially when it was coming to fire department expenditures. I saw Mansfield, that's exactly how Mansfield does a budget book. It's all the same Mansfield that are in Mansfield are going be in the Middleborough one.

It's I think it's once you see it, it may take a second to, okay, follow along. But once you understand it, it's so much clearer than looking at a third party document that the town told this person in a time zone away to put this number on this piece of paper and there's no backup to it. And then sending it back and the back and forth, I honestly believe there are some there were actual numbers that were wrong. And look going through every number and realizing that's not the right number, not in a nefarious way, I just think it was lost in translation. And so being able to clean that up and make accurate or have accurate numbers that the residents can look at, make sure you put your glasses on because it's small, but it's there.

And again, if anyone wants a preview of what it will look like, town of Mansfield, go in, look at their budget book, that's what us will look like. We have the same system.

Thank you for that Joe. Like that thought of working from the Munis platform. Takes away some of that potential miscommunication between which I never realized that that's how all this was transferred.

It wasn't. This is how this particular the '27 budget book that we're getting rid of, it will remain on the website as a reference material. But that is never how we have done it before. It's always been town of Middleborough created. And it was done by the staff within the town manager's office. This third party vendor to be able to do this. I believe it's through the Hopper's payroll system. I don't I haven't really figured out why they chose this path. It's just easier. I think we have more control.

People get to confirm numbers. Like this is, I think, a it's not as pretty. It's not as pretty. I'll say there's no charts. There's no graphs. It's it's bare bones numbers. Just having

it tied to munis and being able to sounds like budget input into munis, which helps make it consistent with how we'll see it going forward on would be my

recommendation. And again, the ability to view Munis is you can have a read only view in finance committee. I said that a couple of weeks ago, have all departments have read only. You should have read only. I don't have a problem. Again, that's the next person that sits in this chair, that should be something that people in town should say, hey, finance committee, putting it out there, seeing what's actually being expended in real time, I think is important.

Mr. Chair, thank you for bringing this into the fold. That's the reconciliation I just want again, go on

the record. That's what I'd asked

the previous town manager for two years ago, and I was deflected and denied to have access. I think if we would have had access to Munis at the time that I requested it,

we could have potentially hit it off a lot of

the issues that we're facing today. So thank you for bringing that up and tying it together. Okay. To you

to to Yes. You may.

Well, I guess. Why do we need to why would the finance committee be need to wait until the new town manager be here to

get at? Well, I think for '27 oh, for in moving forward? Yeah. I I don't have a problem. I guess we can make it happen. I I don't have a a reason why you shouldn't have one. I can't give you a reason. I think you should have one. I said that two weeks ago.

So just

follow-up. So

who do I have to speak to? Sue. Sue? Yes. Simple as that. Yes. Mr. Che. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Age before beauty. Stop.

Started throwing down.

I got I

don't know. Like, security issues, I I obviously, the read only access is the is networked. Having outside network access, I my I'm very weak in IT security. I I defer to the people that know more than me. That was one mention, having a Internet access to that is possibly an IT issue. But to have a hard line access to it, I don't know where you would get it or to I don't know. I'm just saying you should have it. How we get there, you need to talk to Sue and then come up with a secure way for you to have read only access.

Yeah. Believe

And that may have been the original reason. I don't know. I've been busy, like, doing this. But you should have read only access, I guess.

So I've actually got two questions. One is a software question and another one is a Sue Nickerson question because you just mentioned her. So at our previous meeting, we had discussed potentially dissolving the liaison roles. And one of the recommendations and or suggestions rather was that we have quarterly reporting from department heads. And Nick Demers, he actually made a good point or brought up a good question rather about what would that look like because that would be quite a bit to have every department head come in on a quarterly basis to update us.

Now in my meeting with the town manager yesterday, he said that the finance director, Sue Nickerson, is supposed to be having quarterly updates with the department heads. So see as how we're just talking about, just throwing it out there. If that is in fact the case, perhaps we can have the finance director come here when she's concluded those quarterly reviews with department heads. She can then bring it to us and give us the rundown and say, like, hey, this department's tracking. This one, they're actually doing very well. They're under budget. This one, hey, we're to keep an eye on. They're currently running over budget, so on and

so forth.

So it was that. So the question I have regarding software is PatternStream. What is

I'm sorry. That might have may have been the vendor that created the budget book. Patents, Streamhoppers, somebody like that. There was I I don't remember. I was told I didn't retain that information. Okay. Just

That's not another software that's in use in conjunction with Munis because, like, back when Munis was presented to this this committee, I remember, like, one of the big selling points was it was a centralized database, one stop shopping for all matters financial. And then I hear, like, patterns streaming. I'm like, well, and it's a financial software. And I'm like, well, why the two? So

May I speak to that for a second? There was a small select board presentation by Jim and Teresa when they did not have a quorum about what Pattern Stream was. Okay. You might wanna find the video. I wanna say maybe right after you took over or right before. Yeah. Because there was no quorum, and Jim and Theresa talked about what it was because Jim presented a document. I think it may have something to do with the fact that it takes the data and puts it into, like, almost like Excel does a lot of bar graphs and graphics for you more easily, I think. But there is a very short select board meeting maybe two and a half months ago about that. And if I find it, I'll message it to you.

Alright. I appreciate

that. I just think it explains it a little better. Yeah.

Okay. I can't answer your question. I don't know.

Alright. Yeah. Because like like I said, I mean, if we have two different financial software systems, like, is there we get like, I hear two different financial software systems, and I think of like old school, two different sets of books gives me some pause. So I just I don't think that's the case. I just would like clarification.

I would say this. I've had experience with Munis in another community. I think it's great. To be able to look at your actuals, look at your percentages of each line item at different points throughout the fiscal year. As a department head, it's great. We did that by hand when I was a police chief. I wish we were able to do that real time, just turn on a computer and look at the screen. We literally did an Excel spreadsheet and updated monthly and had command staff meetings with how the budget was going. That's the quarterly budget review. That is the idea behind it to make sure that department heads in the town are talking back and forth, looking at the expenditures, where they are in their budget.

If you're at end of quarter three, you should be 75% if you budgeted correctly. If you're under, great. You save money somewhere. If you're over, what was the reason Why are you over? Those are the checks and balances that need to be made sure that or put in place to make sure that we don't run into an issue. And they are being conducted. I know they are because I call and ask her a question, she's in a meeting with a department head. So they're being conducted right now. It's the right time. It's the right thing to do.

But again, newness, you can go in and look at anyone's budget. If you're a department head, read only. You can read every budget and look at every it's again, hey. We go to a department head meeting and, you know, where department heads are looking at like, hey. Why what's up in your budget? You're blowing it up. Have those conversations. What's going on? Let people know ahead of time. And there's reasons and there's factors that you need to be considered when execute in a municipal budget.

So having those checks and balances is important. And I think there's nobody, no department head that I know of that doesn't want to do that. They want to do that. So it is taking place. I just think there's no reason why the finance committee can't be looped in on that. Right.

The

finance director, does the finance director report to? So that the request to her can go directly or does it have to go through?

So we actually just experienced this the other day. Mr. Barrella made a request to her. It was a rather detailed request. I forward it. He asked me to ask to get the information. I forward it to her. She is providing me with all the documentation to help me build this presentation and budget book. She's also conducting these department head reviews of the budgets. She asked, yes, this will take time.

I can give them the information. She asked me to prioritize what she wanted to work on. And then I had email chain between myself and Sue, and I told her focus on the budgets, the '26 and the '27. And I asked John over the email, can we get to this after May 4? And he agreed and he understood.

And I think that was a great way, but email me whatever the request is, I can forward it to her. So she knows that everybody's looped in. And I think once we get past next week, we'll have a little more time to look at a lot of other things that you are looking at as a committee. I don't have a problem with that. It's just I was really prioritizing her time and trying to get me literally every day. The impact bargaining was okay if we went with this route, moving people. What's the number? Plugging it in. Nope, we can't do that. This person is going to bump that person.

This was every day looking at different scenarios based on impact bargaining. Every day something else would come up. Okay, we

did this is where we

can save here. Let's do this. So literally as I was building this present, nope, I to change out treasurer's department. The numbers don't work. She would run off a number, the MUTA sheet, make the adjustments, send it to me. I'd prepare the slide, show the cut, work on the overall revenue side, making sure that we still stayed at zero. And that was literally a three week

process. I

wasn't suggesting that the finance committee would be seeking. Well, I didn't know or just said that I wasn't gonna be seeking in the time of where you are in your process of putting the budget together as we look forward to what our action plan will look like. As long as there's a clear path to get to that information and it follows what you're suggesting that the account manager would be to ponder it. So there isn't this factor of this other party I

agree with you, and I appreciate if it did go that way only because her diverted attention and not want to upset people. And if we can yes. I will get that for you. Give me and he's made other requests. You know, mister Phillips has made you guys have made requests. We'll get it to you. It's you understand what's going on. So having that relationship in place, you know, eases that, you know, burden or that stress of, hey, I asked for this, why don't you give it to me? We have an email chain that's established. This is the priority.

We'll get to it. It's on the list. But having that and almost having that good foundation of working together collaboratively, like I mentioned when I mentioned or when I spoke about the deficit originally, this is what I was talking about. This type of he sent me the email, I forwarded it to Sue, she said, you know, I'm doing all of this, which I knew. That was great. I thought it was a, you know, a great cooperative, you know, spirit trying to get the information that the committee needs. And that's how I wanna keep it going and keep moving forward in that direction.

It's my hope that as we review our processes, which put together an action plan, the information that comes to Sue through process of the funnel

that we just talked

about, will be such that we all know what's being asked.

Correct. So

it isn't something that individuals are asking for and we find out later that something's been asked for. Right. And it can all be funneled in it. These are these are from the finance committee, even though the idea of one will help. Agree with it. So someone like any finance director would probably appreciate to know that it's coming through that route as opposed to individuals coming to occur.

I agree. Him or what Right. I agree. For example, mister Barlow was asking about gas, looking at the gas line. We had made had a conversation early on in my tenure. We talked about gas. He'd been asking about it for a while. I just made one simple request, and we got it. We went through it, and then we realized, oh, it's good. And he said, okay, this is correct. Like problem solved, not problem solved, question answered. And that's all it was. But I think that letting those or allowing that collaborative effort together just puts everyone at ease. We're good. All the information is going back and forth.

We're all set. And you guys are checking the boxes that you need to check.

And we'll talk more as a committee on how we funnel those requests to the Finance Director, I'm sure, as we talk about our actions.

I think, like I said, getting past next week, Monday, I think it's I'm very optimistic and encouraged by the collaboration. I am.

You for your help.

Made us and May 4 be

with you.

May 4 needs to be with me on May 4. It's going to

be that. At least as we're live. I

said and May 4 be with you.

Thank you, Mr.

Phillips. Sorry to speak out

of turn. No, that was a good one. Anybody else? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Thanks Jessica.

Anything additionally you want to add to what we've heard from the no. Okay. Just to the point of the action I put on the review and discuss, this finance committee year long action plan, I see there's multiple facets to it. One of them is even minutes. How are they done and how they should be done?

And even the concept of us, the finance community going through executive session, I find it very difficult going through the 10 areas that you can go into executive session. I find it very difficult to try to find one that would fit what our charge is, but I'm sure there could be one. In light of that, I sent to the attorney general's office, and I have not heard a response yet. They do say two or three days. It might be two or three weeks.

I'm not sure. Dear office of the attorney general, I'm writing on capacity as chair of the Middleborough Finance Committee to request guidance on two matters related to the Massachusetts Open Meeting Law. One, meeting minutes, substantive summary standard. Our recording secretary is working diligently to prepare accurate meeting minutes, but is encountering difficulty distinguishing between an appropriate, quote, substitute summary of the discussion on each topic, unquote, in a verbatim or near verbatim transcript. We have have reviewed the open meeting log guide.

However, we would greatly appreciate more concrete examples illustrating one point. What level of detail satisfies the requirement for a substantive summary? How to appropriately summarize discussion without creating a transcript. Any examples of sample excerpts that demonstrate compliant minutes versus overly detailed minutes. On that point before I move on, if you go to their guide, they do give a couple of examples.

I'm hoping they give something a little more in-depth than what they have in the guide. And the second item was executive session purpose number three, applicability. Our town manager in consultation with town council has been engaged in collective bargaining discussions related to potential staff reductions due to budgetary constraints. A member of the finance committee has suggested that following the conclusion of negotiations, the committee should enter into executive session under purpose number three to discuss the resulting staffing reductions and provide input as to whether those reductions are in the best interest of the town. We see clarification on whether executive session purpose number three will permit the finance committee to meet privately under these circumstances, particularly where, point one, the committee is not a party to the negotiations.

And point two, the discussion will occur after the negotiations have concluded. Any guidance you can provide on these matters would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and assistance. Just to let you know that that has gone out from the finance committee. On both matters that came out of the last meeting. Would I receive a response? I'll give you a response. And I I really feel that when we start working on how we're gonna get this information, if we all can be party to what's being asked. And if we go through well, he may he may not he may be. He may not be the town manager at the time, but he even referenced that.

The town manager would be his his from another day, maybe you won't worry about it. Mr. P. Phillips?

So to expand on that. So I've always been a firm believer and said, we, first and foremost, are residents and taxpayers in Meadowborough. And secondly, we're finance committee members. And so I'm of the mindset that if Alan has a question that is of interest to just himself, that's that's sufficient enough to reach out. Now, however, if this is something that Alan is saying like, hey.

You know what? By my duties on the finance committee, I have this question. I think this would be a benefit to the other members of the finance committee. Then Alan just sending an e mail off to the town manager, maybe CC, the finance committee, and the chair groups, respectively, just to keep everybody in the loop. But, like, what I wouldn't wanna see is, like, having to receive authorization, if you will, or permission to ask a question because we've had issues with that in the past where questions were presented through an individual, and that individual didn't pass those questions on.

So I think if we keep that in mind where we say, hey. You know? I I mean, unless it's something that Alan's reaching out to the and I'm mute sorry, Alan. I'm using you as an example. I could I suppose I could've used myself. But, anyway, if he's reaching out to the clerk's office about dog licensing, like, hey. You know, I I I was late getting my dog license. When when do I have to do it before I incur a $50 penalty? Obviously, that's not of relevance to our purposes here in this committee. But if he was to reach out and say, hey, you know, like, when are we going to receive the quarterly update from the finance director?

Because I I wanna know what where are we in that in that schedule of having that update. Well, then that would be something that would be of interest to the other members of this committee. So I think, you know, in a situation like that, cc'ing the chair and cc'ing the finance committee mailbox group mailbox would be the way forward. Just my 2¢ on it.

Can I respond? Or Yeah. Go ahead. I suppose what will happen now is that we'll have to determine the slice of the pie we're looking at as these requests move forward. The hope is that we're able to define the difference between, jeez, how many dog licenses is free to somebody 70 as opposed to can you tell me how much the revenue is raised from the dog license and how much money we're losing because these people 70 are getting for now.

So, you know, I suppose each one would you'd have to look at it. But I think all of us are cognizant of the questions that we're asking that are necessary for us to do our job in a better way. So to to us for us to come up with a definitive line, I think as the line is being drawn, we'll learn from that.

Yeah. And and I think and to that point too is I think, you know, I mean, if it was, you know, a situation where somebody was just inundated, like, you know, machine gun fire email after email after email, like, then we, you know, would have to revisit that. But in my experience and the three plus years I've been on here, I haven't seen that being the case. So I don't think it will be an issue. But again, I mean, this is a fluid process.

You know, with every every iteration of the finance committee, some things, you know, invariably change. Processes change. I mean, chairs change. You know? So I think that would be a situation where it's we cross that bridge when we get to it, if we get to it. So

And one final thing, maybe, because of what Matt has to say. I'm hoping that the concept of having a yearly action plan becomes embedded in what the finance community does. So when the seven of us moves out over the next two years or twenty years, people would know that this is part of what we do. This is how we do it. It's gonna change over the years. Things are gonna change a little bit. But to get to the bottom line of what's the budget all about? How do we explain to people at town meeting? And can people listen to what we have to say and know that we've really done our due diligence and we know what we're talking about.

And I agree. I mean, like, from and this is me speaking from the way I felt that in the three plus years that I've been on this finance committee, it's appeared to me that we've been relegated to basically and also ran committee. And we were effectively a rubber stamp. Whatever was put before us, thumbs up, thumbs down, very little supporting information. We were getting like 35 in my opinion, we get like a 35,000 foot view. Looks good. Alright. Thumbs up. And that's not how we should be operating. We should be getting down into the details.

We should be seeing in munis, in real time, where we stand and to say, is this supported? Like, I mean, the big question, like the budget. Obviously, the prior town manager's budget didn't meet that standard. Hence, why we're here. So I think bringing us back into relevance, if you will, will go a long way to laying the groundwork moving forward and communicating to future members of not just this committee, but the select Board and the public of exactly what we do.

Because there's a lot of people, they don't know. Like, what do you do? They've asked me, like, what do you do? So to make it very clear, crystal clear, exactly what our charge is by way of the town charter and to be able to have tangible results of our work here, I think, going to be important moving forward.

Sorry for the delay.

It's okay. You I have a solution potentially that I'd like to throw out for the committee's consideration. For what? For helping to figure out if we're communicating as a finance community member or

a member of just the tech in public.

FinComp email addresses, similar to, like, select boards, similar to school committee. I think you could take one or two paths if you're then sending an email. If you're sending it from your own personal email account, that's you. And if you're sending it if you had a fincom@middleboroughma.gov, you could then cc the rest of the committee.

That would

be as a fincom number,

and you have full transparency. The other thing would be the check to that is the Fincom distribution list. I've been told, I don't know, is just entitled only. It doesn't disseminate to say Alan or myself or Matt or Nate or anybody else. You may want to check unless you've already done so that we actually have a distribution list so that when you hit reply all, it goes to

those email addresses that are tethered to it.

And my recommendation would be that we all get a Fincom email address and tether it to a distribution list.

So that way when you hit

the button, it goes to everybody.

Don't have my written

I didn't even notice that.

And my understanding is that there is a finance committee block, and that would make it go to all of all of us. There's a thin com chair piece that when he or she sends something out, goes with that block. Just getting to the block is I'm I'm I'm getting there, but I haven't got there. Yes. Thank you, Jessica.

Yeah. So because that it happens through the way it's being so there is that that. Now is there if you go to the select board, it seems like each one has their own separate one. I hope that sent to Charlie Smith, select board, it goes to Mary, John, and Luke, everybody else too because what that that goes back to that. If it goes to one, it goes to the board. I mean, it just speak into one member in in a document that our emails are public record. Mhmm. So I wouldn't wanna be stuck with just sending it to you, mister, Right. I want I want everybody to hear what my my comments are. You know?

So I will talk to her again.

Okay. And

I know there's something about licensing she talked about is gonna end. It's gonna stop at some point. They're not renewing it because I think they can find a more budgetary way of doing it. Okay. And I'm getting off tangent, but is the Dropbox concern? I mean, I know you don't like I should say that. I know there's reluctance to use the job.

I'm not on it. By some.

I'm not I'm not even

on it. Right. The the reluctance for some to so, you know, that has to be, you know, built into whatever we do because there may be others that aren't on it for whatever reason. So, yes, it's a matter of her to bring people back in to make sure that we that one is better understanding of how this work. And she's willing to come in. Yeah. You know, she said that she's she'll come in drop your ear off. How it works and what can be done. And maybe that'd be something we should do before, you know, as we set this action plan until we have a consistent way of communicating that we all know are getting what we need to know at the same time.

So Okay. Yeah. Maybe we can. Yes. Thank you. No.

I know. It's just just one quick one. I think the the road map will help us sort through a lot of kind of this discussion that we're having this evening. Working on it together as we go forward, I think will be helpful in getting us here. Bob, you've put together a great starting point. For further discussion.

So let's see if I can get her to come in at one of these meetings. Matt.

Yeah. So I remember in a previous conversation with Tara inquiring about why we don't have, you know, Matt Phillips at, you know, the finance committee town email address. And I remember saying it was something because it was concerned about potential open meeting law violations, if you reply all. But realistically, like, that can still happen without personal emails. And the thing I I I don't like about using a personal email is that if there ever is, we have to furnish our emails.

Mean, yes. We do. Quite frankly, I have nothing to hide in my emails. But, you know, if it's like personal financial stuff, not too crazy about that. So I think from that aspect, you know, if there is an alleged open meeting law violation, the town e mail address, it also consolidates everything, one centralized location.

I have in my e mail, I have a specific folder that finance committee stuff I have to dump into every so often for organizational purposes so I can reference it in the future. So there's that. But then there's also too is the optics too. Just as I was saying, is there's in my opinion, we've been in also ran as a committee. I think that further reinforces that when we're, you know, having to email Bob's on Fincom or, you know, John's on Fincom or whatever, know, their personal it it it's I won't say it's tacky, but for lack of a better term, it is.

It's like it's not it's as professional as it is as if somebody is emailing someone. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I don't think I've had but maybe two people email me. And it's largely I don't know if it's because people don't know how to contact me via e mail for Finance Committee related things or if it's just a matter that nobody is going to e mail us on the Finance Committee. It's going to be department heads, it's going to tell manager, whomever. So I think it would be good.

And just from, like I said, an efficiency standpoint, an optics standpoint. And then the last thing is, like, we brought the Dropbox. We were presented with that, like, hey. We're moving to Dropbox. And I was like, well, I'm not. Like, I don't I know we didn't have a vote on it. And personally, I don't like having that as the primary source of document dissemination because things can be removed from there. Whereas when it's e mailed, you can't take that e mail back. When we hit send, I have it. And I like that.

So when we have issues where we say, hey, we never received this information. Oh, well, you know, I went on Dropbox. It's not there. Somebody may have inadvertently deleted it. It might have been removed for space saving, whatever the case may be. The email, I can always go back and reference it. Well, actually, it was sent on 11/12/2025 at 05:34PM. You know? So I like that. It's the primary source.

I don't have a problem with Dropbox being a supplemental form of communication or a backup. It's like, hey, the document is going to be located in there. If you can't find it on your e mail, there's also the back that will be the backup. But yes, I think that's another thing too that really needs to be looked at a little closer is the e mail communication. I'm a huge fan.

Like we should have a finance committee e mail that's issued by the town. And then the other thing, too, and kind of going on and on about this, surprisingly, and usually, a man, very few words. But John had brought up about the distro on the Fincom e mail. I don't know. I think there has been a couple of times where I'm like, hey, did you get that e mail?

And you were like, no, I didn't receive it. And it came by way of the Fincom e mail. So keeping that updated is another key component too. Because I know he was previously the Chair two years ago, so he had the e mail that you had. But then when Eric was the chair, I don't know and I don't know if you ever got on there. So because I know we've had a couple of times we'd have communications and be like, hey, did you receive that e mail? He's like, no. What do you know you're talking about? He has no idea. So there's that aspect of it, too, is keeping an updated record of the recipients. And also, it's making sure that people who shouldn't be getting the information are not because they're no longer serving on the finance committee.

I'll ask Tara to come in.

Okay. Perfect.

Can I say? Are you being given up? Thought, no. Maybe I was going to

just say, I think I remember from my time with Jared, I had to physically request who was in and who was out on that list. And if you don't do it, then it just stays static. Because like we saw on the top website, there were people that hadn't been on the committee in years that are still on there, but we finally got that fixed.

So I would send you

you the the email email system. System.

One

last and actually, one last thing, mister chair. You had said about the emails, like, if somebody emails, you would hope that it goes, like, right now, like, the select board or some e mails, a member of the Select Board, it would go out to all of them. I don't think that's necessarily the case because if you go on the Town website, on the Select Board page, they have hyperlinks for all the individual Selectmen, and then they have a group hyperlink for the entire select. So I don't think it works exactly like that. So just something to

keep track

of all those questions.

Yeah. It's. You're definitely bringing her in now.

Yeah. Can you keep up with all the questions you

gave us? I may I speak for a second? I think a big part of this after doing a lot of research and taking the open meeting training recently, like in the last year, actually, finished it in February. So is the open meeting law violation. If you if I send an email to all of you and then any one of you replies back to me about something that happened in the meeting, it becomes an open meeting law violation because it's discussion.

So if we're gonna use email, the blind cc is always the method, not the cc, because you have no idea who I sent it to and I have no idea. Right? So but that's also, I believe, the same way that it's the same structure for the select board. Because if you send it to all of them and then they discuss it, open meeting law then kicks in. And I think that that's the measure.

I suspect that's what you'll hear Tara say or to some parts of this question, not all of them. So I would just say, at the very least, make sure you're protecting yourself with a blind cc. Because when I send you guys documentation and stuff, I you guys are all blind cc'd. And I do I don't know if you noticed. Was trying to put at the bottom of the email. You all have been blind cc'd on this. Please be careful of how you respond. Like because it's like, I just wanna make sure that you all know, yeah, you're all on it, but you can't see who I sent it to because it's like so I think that that's some function of it, and I think they can answer for sure. But I'm pretty sure that might be some of the logic you get back in the rationale.

I guess I'm not done yet. No

one asked you to be done.

Right. So So we had received, as members of this committee, we received an e mail from Joe, town manager, Joseph Perkins. And right at the top of it, he had put asterisk and capitals, do not reply all. You have that. But then if you go down further, it will there is a disclaimer.

When responding, please be aware that the Massachusetts Secretary of State has determined that most e mail is public record and therefore cannot be kept confidential. So there's that disclaimer. And the big thing is too is we all have to take annual training for through the Secretary of State's office for open meeting law and all that stuff. So one of the things that they say is, like, you can't like, we can reply all. Like, if you send out, like, hey, attached for the minutes, and I hit reply all received, that's on open meeting law Right. Violation. If we start deliberating over it, why did you include x, y, and z

Yeah.

In this? We didn't discuss that. And then Alan chimes in. I'm using you again, Alan. Alan chimes in and says, no. No. No. We discussed that and, you know, Jessica was right to include that. In fact, she should add this. Now we're we're we're waiting into the deliberation outside of a public meeting. That's where you it starts

getting Right. Thank yous and receipts acknowledgments are different, of course, for sure. Yeah. Like

Dissemination of meeting minutes, scheduling, hey, Bob sends one out. Hey, I'm thinking of having or we need to schedule a finance committee meeting. What works for you guys? And I chime in. I reply all. I say, hey, Monday at seven works for me. John says, well, that doesn't work. I'm using John now. John says Monday doesn't work, but Tuesday does. That's not a meeting law violation. That's purely scheduling. There's nothing of real interest to the town. I'm not discuss discussing public matters while there's a scheduling. So

here's that. Very briefly, on that note, I think that's another reason I just love it. You can put a you can put a disclaimer on any private email or any email you want. But if we had Fincom at Middleborough emails, it could already just you could all have the same disclaimer baked into the bottom of it. That way people would automatically be on notice. Mhmm. This is not a private document.

Yeah. And in fact, I guess I'm not done with mister chair.

I should

I should. It's not today.

Well, no. Well, no. It's like, actually, I think it would it would actually make it more difficult to have an open meeting law violation by having that. It's because, like, here I am on my personal email account, and I and I reply all, not like, absentmindedly doing it. You know, it was by accident, like, oh, jeez. Now now I've committed an open meeting law violation.

Yeah. Just keep them separate.

Right. Have

separate emails.

Have compartmentalization. This is finance stuff. This is personal stuff. Not to overlap. So now I'm done.

I

meant on this topic. I beat this topic to death.

I can go ahead and tell you before that. All right. So I will reach out to get an IT person in here to address this, schedule that for about an hour and then do the rest of our meeting. Alright. So we have a meeting on Monday, recess, come back in. Appears the town manager would appreciate that we have a Thursday meeting. I'm sure there'll be more questions about that presentation on Monday that we carry over to Thursday. And we'll have on the the agenda the tower truck fire item so that we can we can address that department. And is there anything else? Public comment.

So just very quickly. So is that gonna be the Thursday meeting is gonna be where we discuss, you know, maybe appropriate the money for the towered truck?

Well, he he yes. Alright.

Because I I was unclear. I didn't know if it was gonna be Monday that Monday's meeting, but I'm like, I don't see how it's gonna be able to do that on Monday. So okay.

It's pretty clear that he he would appreciate us

to have

that on his agenda