Planning Board - Regular Meeting

meeting to order. First on agenda is approve of minutes from last meeting. Second by Dave Motion. Second. Okay. Any discussion? All approved. Everybody else. Okay. Next is approve our leans voucher. Motion motion by Amy. Second. Second by Sandy. Any discussion? say hi.

First on our referral says Ron Wilson on 2095 baseline. Do we have someone here for him? Got a whole file. Okay. Okay.

All right. So, how about somebody maybe behind me here and give us a little idea what what we're doing. approximate footb our vans inside of there overnight. I've had ring cameras up since we hit the property. I've seen people walking through all hours of the day. So like to keep things secure and locked up and keep it looking nice and neat. So you're a landscape contractor? No, we do document destruction and shredding.

Oh, okay. Work for Ken Knight for many years. I learned a lot from him. Okay. Start my own thing and Okay. We don't tread anything on site. Everything's done in a warehouse in Buffalo. It's just this is our home base at the office here. My wife's the office manager. Yeah. The office. So, is this going to just be a storage build? What's on the property now?

It was the old Nothing. I think it was an old dentist office. It's an office building and then there's a it's a big parcel land behind it. We've got about parking sink. I know it's from the building, but there's two parking spaces in the 15t front courtyard setback. That's not a voting number seven

existing building got our space one to six with are in a 100 foot set. These are legal non-confscsing shown on your plans. It's in the backyard of the building and they land on the front of the building. I got bushes hang in the grass type of grass.

Those two spots in the front parking spots there. It's going to make it kind of tough for cars coming in. They got to weave their way around. He said he was going to get rid of them. Oh, those aren't necessary. is just yeah 1x engineer for a project that number we had for the building square footage was just the building but it's two floors so it was double that's why we had 14 spaces calculated for that so you're going to eliminate number seven and eight that are located in the front yard we have 14 without those right or is it

we have being a lot but where you can we can move them somewhere else. I still have according to building department you need seven and you've got seven.

Okay. Not needed. And so I'm assuming one to six were there. Yeah. They were there from that's why they're legal non-conforming. So they were already there. They were all in the back too. Yeah. Yeah.

Anybody else have any questions? I noticed that these drawings are not stamped by a professional engineer. Is there a reason why?

Yeah. They are. Okay. Thank you. What's the uh nextdoor apartment residences? What will they be looking at? I don't see an elevation of what the that side of the would look like. There's a daycare on the other side.

Yeah, maybe it's it's pretty [Music] Yeah.

Are there any elevations of the building side view? No. That's one of the things list people. Oh yeah, this is Yes. We don't have anything. [Music] Is there anything on the drawings there? No. How about polars or what's materials? Maybe steel match there. Well, you're you're going to match the existing. Keep it all uniform. Well, existing building.

Yes. You're not doing said match the existing. Let's say just color color, not not texture. And how tall is this building? It's 16 foot tall. So probably Oh, 22 feet. Would there be windows on there? Oh, there's the elevation. Oh, yeah. We don't have that. It was in the package. It's not in the air. I was going to say I didn't have a light over the door. That's it. Yeah, they had that on there, I think.

Yep. It shows a wall mounted light sconce on the overhead. Yeah. Not not the man door, which I think you'd want to have. I think that's code. Yeah, electrical. You're doing electrical on the builder? Yeah. So, that's code right at the mandor. You just note it on here. Wisconsin only about the one. If you have a door usually cold so you have also you don't want all the parking lot strike. It's not now

we been back then that parking lot was pretty tough. Yeah. I mean it was it was pretty much Yeah. cut everything back quite a bit. They didn't really use it. with building with building the building. Are you you know you're going to be obviously tearing up moving doing equip stuff like that. Are you looking at resealing resurfacing after the construction's done? Yes. That's that's I think that's what they're So then the opportunity would be either you know you're either topping sealing whatever and a chance to stripe it too. We're preparing spots really bad and they won't Dave you had a question. So, haven't we been looking at a a stone like brick-like knee wall on these kind of buildings and or at least a different color? Yeah. Uh something

to break it up. Yeah. Um we've been pretty consistent on doing that recently with warehousing and so on. And obviously from Yeah. Liftco, they just painted it. Yeah. From the the car shop did that, but he's on Grand Island Boulevard. Yeah. Yeah. or this is a case. You're saying they're coming in proposing that, but have we have we recommended it? Hasn't been already. Yeah. For the central, north, and south that's in the Right. Okay. Back to Bob's comment. We're central business district, so performance standards do apply.

Yes. Right. Right. So then we would be looking for some type of phony stone, you know, the stone band. You can buy the one that does it have on or the one that screws on. Just a couple. Can't they just use a different color? That's what we did with Lipco. They have a different color. The idea is not to have the same color block wall to have it dressed up a little bit. This one sounds kind of building the whole the the sides that will be seen. So that would be your two sides. from where performance standards state all four sites central business district you know like Walgreens it's all done all the same all the way around yeah I think

and the ones at the corner of long road and boulevard are all done yeah and I think I think Brad Lifco was existing building it wasn't a new building we didn't make them rip off siding to add the stone so you would be required to do something all the way around. You know, is same material good or do you want No, they usually like you to try to contrast materials. Um probably brick or brick or stone. Yeah, would you guys have seen this? I wouldn't pass an architect ARB would see this. So, it's still pending in front of them too. Sorry, just making sure that you

So, we generally ask you to try to match color to anything existing, right? And because you are a central business district, you fall under this design and performance standards. So, that's to try to have different materials on the building, not just different colors, to try to dress it up. So, so Dave Mazar's building on the right. Y has got it. The second the other one up by the plaza's got it. Yeah, I think he did brick on wall and something else. Well, it's just vinyl stuff. Yeah, you can. It's fake. It's not real stone. Do they have like sheds behind them? Many of these businesses

like as an accessory building because this isn't the main building of like the property is an accessory building. Yeah. So like to put stone on it, it's gonna increase the cost, but it did. Yeah. Building. Well, I'm I'm now I'm thinking did um as an accessory building, did we make him do that on Bedell Road, the old doctor's office right there with the contractor garage behind them? Yes. Yeah. The Yes, we did. We did. Okay. I think we let him off on the one wall because it was facing the woods or something, right? Wasn't that Jim? It wasn't the same situation. The back wall faced the woods.

That's what I understand. I think it was so the one wall that faced the woods. We were like, "Well, they're in the same situation though is what he's saying." So, I think three walls three walls will be sufficient. I don't even I have no objection to the different color, but but we should follow our design standards and be cons, right? But we should Yeah. And also are because you're adding something and this kicks in. Are you going to plant any extra trees out front or Yeah, there's no landscaping plan. Yeah, there's nothing here. There's no there's two pots. There's two big pots in front in front of the building. But as far as

it's all parking lot in front of it. There's no green space in front of it. There's lawn in the front. There's there's a retaining wall with plants in front of the building itself, right? The rest is called paved. The whole thing is paved. You know, generally in a central business district, they're asking for a tree staggered tree line across the front of the property. So now that you're doing something behind behind that kind of still kind of kicks in. Don't you have a band of grass right across there? Should be there. So there's the sidewalk that went through there. Is there going to be enough room? I It should be on your side of the property, not between the sidewalk and the road. No. Yeah, for sure.

The town doesn't want the responsibility of taking care of free and tree road. No, they're not going to love their stuff, right? Is there a certain species of tree you want? There is a there is a tree list somewhere because you don't want to put like something that's they have a tree list down here. Okay. Yeah. I mean, they're asking for like 2 and 12 caliber diameter trees that the tree line to max, you know, the growth height to be like 15 to 30 feet. They don't want some monster, right? 100 foot tree growing there. You know what I'm saying?

Trying to keep it down. Yeah. Trying to keep it down to make it a little more campus like setting what Councilman Larson likes to say. So, kind of what what do you got for frontage? 100 feet. Yes. Generally the trees are 25 foot apart. There's a very narrow but it's probably less. No, it's the length of the length of the front of the property. Same from the parking lot paving that's in front of

you. [Music] So you're built right up to the sidewalk almost. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Well, yeah. Well, these these were seven and eight that he's killing, right? So, why can't he Oh, this is all asphalt as well. Well, there there's a strip of grass right along the sidewalk. Yeah. He said it's like six feet. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got he's already got trees on the side. Yeah. His survey here. He's already got trees here. Well, is everybody good with what he's got? I don't think he's got to rip out pavement for the

No, I don't think with the trees. I think we do need to make sure that the um differentiation in the materials is picked up in our motion. Okay. Yeah, I'd like to Anyone else say that? Nor Well, I say we could table this and come back next month with a U site plan showing elevations, lighting plan. Yeah. Um, unless engineer's gonna have some stuff with you guys before you guys finish up. So, I've got a couple comments. Okay. You're making a motion table.

Table about lighting other than Well, you have to show it on the plant. Don't know the van door. Are you doing any new light? Are you doing is it over the van door? over the overhead door. It's got to be one over the man door by code, right? Which I know it's something small, but then you you should really show the correct elevation on your drawing. They have it right here. It was supposed to be in this plan when I handed them in. I mean, the checklist is there. There's the elevation with the stone on the bottom.

Change the elevation. Now, we're changing It's kind of hard for us to say, "Okay, you got to do this and then the following 10 things so you don't change the plans." The stone, it has to be the stone or it could be the vinyl. No, it doesn't have to be real stone. You could just use sighting. You can use anything that looks just a different color. Yeah, they have they have stone, they have brick, they have all different material in that. Okay. Material. Yes. We're going to be delayed another that when this would have been really nice to know. Okay, so

make money. Okay, so hang on guys. So Norm, you made a motion. Yeah. Does anyone want to second Norm's motion? Second by Dave. I was going to say, can we hang on? I've got things that they're both add to this motion. Well, they're going to need to update. Okay. Okay.

From the drawings they submitted. Um, you guys didn't do a top too. And I can tell you that the original site plan for the dentist office showed the drainage and it actually comes from baseline around the building north then goes north and goes back out to the road. The swale that was outside of the building. That's the original design plan that was there. You're just showing you're not giving me any elevations and you're showing sheep floor to the back with the water just disappearing. So with a toe, we need a topo. Got no elevation that the building to be set at. We've got no grading, no nothing on the plan set. So gonna going to need to have the topo done. You did furnish me with a survey. So thank you on that. I saw it was in the original submitt. Um you don't have any sideyard dimensions proposed where the structure is actually being located and on the property lines. It's just kind of you got to dump back. There's no sideyard noing of where this thing's sitting without pulling out a scale and measuring it. Um, not to be disrespectful when I put a scale for

I'm not paid to put a scale on your drawings. So, also the drawings. Okay. So, then the drainage which you go there and it's not what it says it was. So, like what we're doing is you can't just push it to the back and say it. So it drains. It does. And it drains back to the behind the But your your topo would tell us would show him that. Okay. But also the what's that? The gate here next to it has a ditch behind it. It goes into that property. So they would have to know

you got to show me what you're doing. And you got a pickup feature that you're serv you know that's a typical thing to pick up there. Like I said, the original the original design plan brought that forward. There's so much brush and vegetation and lack of care on the swailes. They're gone. So now Well, it it never it never went to the street ever. There's no way. Yeah. But yeah, everything drains to the east. Like it drains towards the original site plan literally had a cut off soil and going around in elevations. The plan, but it never happened that way. So yeah, but now that you're doing something, right, you got to conform. And that's that's why we drew it on there. Show show us where it's going.

You're going to need the information that engineering is going to require. And then this board is asking for more elevations, a little more lighting, a landscape plan. So landscape plan for the front of the building or for the for the whole the whole thing, whatever you're doing there. It's like once you add on something, all the other stuff comes into play. If you don't add on nothing, then you don't have to do nothing. But obviously you need to add on. You you need the to. So it just there's a snowball coming down the hill type of thing. So we had a motion. We had a second. I'm not. Oh. Oh, you're not. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were finished,

Dave. It is a simple one. You do have some standard details for sedimentation control, but you did create with the drainage plan. you're showing a new swale being cut in over to the side going north at that uh into it probably with your disturbance you should have something you know some form of uh you know like rock check dam something like that shown with the construction work limit your silts and that going off of it

compost filter so we'll call it to be I mean right now okay that's like I said I look I look quick I saw nothing shown be applied to that area so it's kind of why I'm flagging right up Um the other piece is is I do this is a this project does require referral to the county planning. I need a speaker form. None was submitted. I don't know. Did you turn one in? Yeah, it was in the package. Okay. Apologize if it's sitting. We'll get that. [Music] All right. So, we had a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor of the table.

Sorry guys, we'll need the drawings. I know it's discouraging, but yeah, it's disappointing. I understand, but understand everybody's got a we do this to everybody. So, it's not like singing out or anything. Okay. See you next month. For engineering, would it be worth a site visit to do that or is that out of the question? bring me in the information on what you're dealing with. I typically start with this boat. What's going on out there? What features? Show me where you're discharging to. So I guess to your answer your question when you get a little farther,

check back with engineering and make sure that all the keys are crossed and the eyes are dotted. Come back here. That's why it goes in what two and a half weeks and whoever who's throwing the I got we got an email. Who's doing the drawings? That's all. That's all. So, make sure you get this performance centers. Make sure that you're following what you're doing because you're Central Business District. Yeah. Okay. All right, guys. Thank you. See you next month. Okay. Thank you.

Number two. Before you go any further to the motion, do you want to add u engineering concerns also?

You could put that on there. Yeah. To satisfy engineering's concerns. I did send him a copy of my society [Music] shot 1966 white is someone here forget's here generally we table if the applicant isn't here to want to put it on hold and keep going in case they show up. Just sort of a point of

discussion, there seems to be two issues here. One is change of use and the second is site plan approval. Um it seems to me like this change of use is retroactive because obviously they've been using it for I don't know how many months. Um but it seems like we should think about two different decisions. the change of use first if it makes looking at the site plan sort of academic if we don't approve the change of use. Um we can table it until someone shows up to explain why they did it. Um but I see those two as two very separate issues. Okay. Yeah. I agree. Everybody good? Table. Well, another thing I think parking is gonna be a huge issue.

Yeah. Okay. So, do we want to just set this aside in case they show up and we keep going? Let me just say or no. How does the town allow them to keep operating like this? Because it's certainly not fair to like Anderson's. They came in and did it right and this guy jumped the queue so to speak. Here's the situation and I'm sure Councilman Deati can chime in. They just can't work that fast. It takes time for them to send them a letter. Then they got so many days to respond and then by the time they get to the lawyer and the lawyer doesn't their thing, it just takes time. But has it even been started? I I have no idea.

I believe it is. That's why they did put a plan in front of you. Keep in mind they they give a notice and it's like 30 or 60 days. were halfway through the summer and done then by the time so it's that I think concurrently code enforcement may have an enforcement going on which drove them submitting the site plan for the changes they wanted to make in order to do this. So, we got a letter from Betty Harris because she owns the property next door and sent which was June 27th and yes, I think I echo what Bob's saying here that obviously building picked it up and then they submitted the site plan after the fact. So again, do we want a flat out table or

I don't think they knew they had to have a change of use because it was how would you how could you run a business if they don't know these rules? Well, a site to site plan is codifying change. So that's what would it would it help the town from a legal standpoint if we rejected changes? Well, I think we should hear before it isn't allowable use. Why would we reject that given their name? I I don't see as allowable. Why isn't it allowable? Because it doesn't fit on the plan. Doesn't fit on the site. Yeah. It's a house. It's a residence. Right. And then once you add

Well, it's not a residence. It's been a business. But yeah, he's sold t-shirts and stuff. Started as all e-commerce and that was an okay use. But now Okay, I'm going to go back to where I was at. Do we want to hold this for the tonight before or do we want to straight out table it now? We can hold it until the end. They show up everybody the agenda. That's fine. Okay. So, I'll make a motion to change number two to number five. Move three, four, and five. Okay. Everybody good? Secondbody approve. Yes. They're selling a lot of ice cream tonight. So that's probably the line is long.

Yeah. All right. Drive special use permit. Casey Davis 136 Home Occupation Bakery. Are you here, folks? Come on up here, please, if you would. So, you're going to become the House of Carbs. You kind of got a little nice thing about all your business, hours of operation, and you need a special use permit. Yes. You've done your New York State thing.

Yep. My ER business license. Okay. Does anyone have any questions? You're only going to have pickups on Saturday and Sunday. Yeah, I'm going to focus on farmers markets to start. Um, but yeah, that's the plan. I have a full-time job, so Okay. How much activity do you think you will see on a day, like a half a dozen cars or Yeah, probably. It's such a niche market. It's gluten-free and sourdough. So, I'm not expecting a huge rush of people to be buying from me, at least at this point. I did notice you have a relatively short driveway and there were two cars parked there. Yep.

It is. Can a car park in the garage or was your garage full or what? Um there's not really room in the garage for us to park, but we could either park on the street if that's okay or we have a really generous neighbor who lets us park in her driveway as well. Sure. And you feel like your neighbors are supporting what we're doing here? Yeah, they've asked about it. They're excited. Great. Nobody's here complaining. Now, the only question I had is you me mentioned in here that you're not going to have any delivery of materials. How are you going to get it? I get all my stuff from local stores. So, you pick you pick everything up. Yep. Okay. Okay. That was my only question. Anyone else have other questions? Motion. Go ahead.

Yeah. I'm just um Are you going to have a sign in front of your house or do a removable sign? So something that I can just put up on my open days. Okay. And I take it out. Oh, just so they know when they are when they're coming, right? Yep. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I see it here now. Make a motion to approve. I'll second. Second. Motion. Norm. Any further discussion? All in favor? I Thank you very much for coming up. Good luck. Good luck. Okay, next on the agenda is one.

Okay, the M1 law is back in front of us. This is the third rendition, the third letter from the county of disapproval. And before we start, I just want to bring up something. For a 350,000 square foot building, you're going to need an 8 8 acres of land to build that building. And then roughly another 8 acres for parking and whatnot. So that's like 16 acres. That's this law is going to pull in at 32 acres. So, anyone 32 acres or larger would be this law, which currently we have, if I'm correct, nine parcels over 30 acres. Eight of those parcels are already got stuff built on them. And I think the one car dealership is loaded with wetlands that's still available. So, that brings it down to one parse that's blank huntress. So, are we passing a law for one guy is my question. And then also, you're gonna stop anybody from growing. Like if Thermal Fisher wants to grow or somebody else wants to grow, once you're at a 350,000 square foot campus, you're closed. So, is is that what we want? And then distribution. Don't we have distribution now? Distribution centers.

We have one right on Grand Island Boulevard. He's distributing his product out of there. Absolutely. GP50 makes products and all over the world. That's a distribution center and a warehouse, a storage facility. It's just ridiculous the terminology and they've built. So, so we're talking about saying you can't have a distribution center, but maybe 12 days out of the year. Well, how are we going to enforce that? Was someone going to go sit there all year and watch which days they're distributing from their warehouse? And then what about isn't thermal fisher distribution? They make a product and they send it out, right?

Uh Starline hats and pens right now. He's making his product and he's sending it to Tanowanda to warehouse it because he doesn't have enough room on site and then it goes out from there. Lithco, is it Lithco hydraulics sending his stuff? Yeah. I mean, what if Guysy's Lumber wants to say, "I'm going to start selling hardware online and shipping it out of the hardware store on on his current location." He can't He can't do that. He can't log because he could. He could. Yeah. Did you read the distribute? what it defines distribution facility as well the county had a problem places like guys lumber where they do sell stuff in person

well the county has a problem with some of the the wording in their letter I I just still boils down to we're targeting one landowner and then limiting the other eight land owners that you can't once you're is I wonder how much thermal fisher I think they're 300 10 or 40 I Brad me no they're more than that thermal fish is more than that I don't think I think there

when I just went on that tax map and well because now it's been sold off because there used to be one complex when I went through that they were they were nearly a million square feet over there just when I learned on the tax map and we're adding up buildings. I don't know. So, do we want to sell tell our I mean, we can't just rely on residential taxes. We've got to have commercial or we're never going to be able to afford to live there. I mean, the town literally loses money on the residential side, makes money on the commercial side. So, yeah. I don't understand why we're discouraging that. I really don't.

I I don't either. We we worked bent over backwards to make sure they didn't build Amazon here and we get all the traffic, none of the revenue. We lost the 10 million bucks. We lost how much money. Did you any Not to beat a dead horse. You weren't here. Oh well. Not to beat Not No, we never did. I mean, pulled before we got a chance to pull it. Well, that's And I'm not blaming the town. I'm blaming the county and the state because the county Yeah. So, the same you're relying on. No. The letter saying we shouldn't do it is the one that chased that away to begin.

Well, that was Poland that was Poland cars wanting as 95% labor. That's what killed that deal. We all know that. And the article 78 challengers were suspended because of co really killed that deal. Not the people that put a sign in their yard, but but still if you not to beat a dead horse, if you go by the new Amazon Nagra County, I mean there's a brand new Dollar General. They're just broke ground for a brand new Tim Morts restaurant. Now they're talking about breaking ground for another Aldi's right outside the complex. Like are we chasing? Yes, we are.

Chasing the people away cuz we noticed we all said it. I mean Dave's mentioned it. I've mentioned it that ever since the moratorum come in this planning board seems like it went like this. Like what is that a coincidence that we put the sign up? Hey, we don't want these this commercial here on Grand Island. And then all of a sudden, we're getting how about I have some mini cows.

I think the wording between distribution center and warehouse is going to be very hard to police what the differences are coming out of businesses. If we see a business that in a couple years has some growth, does that mean they've moved into the next out of, you know, a warehouse versus a distribution center? Like I think that's a real problem that I have is deciding what these businesses are between and and what what is it that we don't want vehicles from the distribution center? Traffic is what is that's what my question would be is is the concern for traffic what's driving that's trying to make that distinction between distribution center and warehouse. Well the same amount of traffic is

it's just going to come off island like Amazon does. They're at my house every day. No, but I I Okay, like I said, I think you're splitting hairs here and you're going to have the same traffic either way,

right? That's what I'm getting at. So, if we don't if we limit, wouldn't we be better to say, "Hey, come and build your building, whatever it might be under the current code, and then we know a lot of the faults that supposedly came about from thermal fisher and say, hey, we want, you know, take care of the road, take care, fix, like Dave said, take care of the bridge, which which Amazon was going to do. They were going to put offramps, red lights. Lo's truck stop was going to build two extra off-ramp lanes. Pay for it. Put the red lights up, pay for them. Wouldn't we be better off to ask the developer more concessions or and and to help us out in more ways of what problems we've developed from a 40-year-old thermal fisher program? What

leverage, Dave, would you have to ask for those concessions without a change to the law? right here. So, just out of the goodness of their heart, they're going to pump down. When we've when I've met with uh Attorney Spitzer, he says the planning board, we can ask anything for anything we want and then it's up to you guys you guys to back it up. You can ask for it, but at the end of the day, if it's permitted use, we have limit options regard as far as well solutions mitigate any potential adverse environmental impact the monster of because the things that have been the concern traffic traffic. We're working through the solutions. There's there's off sites, there's, you know, different pieces with that. Um,

there's a lot still to be done. I mean, Seeker's still a lot. Hence the reason we're nowhere in anything because that then sits at a loggerhead because getting them to address the concerns. We're also limiting them to 50% usage of their property. There's no usage code in the M1 currently that you can only build on 50% of your land. So now you're telling this hunters fell they got 180 acres and you can only use half of it. Where did that figure come from? 50%. I mean, well, I know it is, but I mean, they I don't know whoever drafted the new law come up with this stuff.

I I would assume it's Kilmer because he's the one that's pushing this thing. I mean, last town hall meeting, he kind of chastised the binding board because we tabled our last meeting and didn't come and come and do this, but we didn't have the county letter. That's why I I guess I'll apologize. Maybe that's my fault. I should have said, Arlene, we're canceling the meeting because I'm waiting for this letter to come in and for to see what Don't we want all the information in front of us, the new law, what that law has to go to the county to hear what they have to say or are we just going to say, well, hell, we don't want to listen to them. We're part of the county. It's not like we're New Hampshire. I will on another level sitting on the zoning board and Dave sits with me. I mean this is something that we're really looking at. We're thinking of asking recommendations of combining the M1 and M2 because really the difference is more or less outdoor storage. We're also looking away about considering recommendations of taking the tier system down. So like in this law it says everything that's allowed in B1. Well, our goal is to our our goal and the zoning board is to better define each one of those zones. It's not a tier system. This is what you can do in this one. This is what you can do in that one.

But there's so much is crossing over, right? There's so much crossover, right? But that's what we're working on. We have charts beyond charts, right? But don't forget, but I mean the tier system works because if you're allowed to do it here, right? Right. Whether it's whether that's what it comes down to or not. I'm for me I'm just saying this is something at zoning that we've really been looking at with the planner and and we are cross referencing and stakeholders and everybody in here as to what's working and what's not working. So to me there's another level of this like I don't from that position where the town put a zoning board in to be able to do their due diligence if we if we go and switch this in

and the town's paying for the plan the zoning board to redo all the zones. So now that board is working with a paid planner that way and now we're going to go over in my opinion we're going to go stick a band-aid on the M1 law with this current thing and then when we get back to the zoning board it's going to come back to the zoning board and they might say we don't want this in in the code and now we're back. It just seems to be I'm not saying what the finished product will be, but it's all things that are being considered right now and laid out.

Now, it went in front of the comprehensive plan board and their recommendation was to let the zoning board do their thing and make their decisions and then that would become a potential law would come back to the planning board for us to look at all the whatever the zoning board comes up with. We've got to go through it all. Got to come to the planning board. It's a law change. It just seems like we're now I know people don't want a big warehouse. I I understand. And that's huge thing. It really is. But we've already got them. How big is the school? 368,000 square ft with a single campus.

So we've already got these buildings. It's not like And then he was approved at one point for close to a million square feet with I think between eight buildings. Well, obviously now he can't build eight buildings because it's too cost prohibitive. So, he's going to build one big building. So, what if we eliminated the 50% and just said meeting the setback and you know other uh requirements of the of the town. So you're going to keep the 350,000

350 but li but but allow them to fully develop his site per all the other requirement setbacks and so on that we have but it's still a campus at 350. Well so whether he uses the whole 100% of the site he can only build 350,000 square feet. Yes, but it would have to meet all the others each building would have to be part of the setbacks and so on that uh are established by the town. But that's doesn't seem like it accomplished anything. Well, if we take the 50% thing off, he still can only build 350,

right? But he but he doesn't have to have a 700,000 square foot piece of property. To your point, he doesn't have to have um you know 32 acres. 32 Yeah. 16 acres. He only needs eight acres. But he's got how many acres over there? 184. So 180 acres and he's only allowed to build Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Talking. That's all. Go ahead. I wanted to point out it's got 180 acres and we're still talking that he can only use the postage stamp size of it.

Councilman 184 acres is his commercial piece of property. If he builds this warehouse as he submitted it million2 I think it was right he is using about 38% of that under 50 if he was to use just that 184 acres and build what he want. So the 50% number wouldn't even like play on a big building. Right. So get my point. Yeah, that's what I was saying. The 50% seems to be a way. Well, actually, I don't want to know the 50% is really a bad thing, right? I don't know if it is, but in this case, that would not be

the 50% isn't a bad thing. The 350,000 cap is the thing that you've been choking on. Right. Right. Because who would he even consider a 350? Well, I don't know. I mean, my point being is he's got a campus. I've been to it in Rochester. It's huge. Maybe at 350,000 square feet, he can't make any money. That he wants the million square foot

and maybe his tenants want this big space. They need the space and that he can't generate the income at 350. So why would you build it? And then here's the flip side of the coin too. I'd like to mention when Amazon was approached by the town of Niagara and the city of Niagara Falls to go there when it got kicked here. Bobby Rristiano, mayor of city of Niagara Falls has a 60 acre parcel along the highway belongs to the city. He offered to Amazon for a buck. I talked to Bobby and they said 60 acres isn't big enough. We need 100. He goes, "Good. My next door neighbor's got 40. You didn't pay for the 60. Now you got a lot of money. Go pay for the 40. There's your 100 acres. And they said, "Okay, great. What kind of tax break you're going to give us?" Zero. Went to the town in Niagara. They lost the dump. They lost their whale. They needed another whale. That was Amazon. They gave them a discount on their taxes to go to go. That's why Amazon picked them over Niagara Falls. What happens if somebody like

and it was cleaner? What happens if he like what he's saying if they go build a million square foot building in Niagara Falls? We're going to get all the traffic again and get like Brad's saying and get nothing. No taxes, no jobs, no no growth, no nothing. I mean the biggest complaint when I was working with Amazon was traffic. That was the biggest complaint. Traffic, traffic, traffic. And that was an unknown.

How are we going to get over the bridge? How are we going? The bridge is going to be they're going to send all them semis at four between 4 and 5:00 and when I got to get home, I'm never getting home. That was the big complaint that I heard over and over sitting through Amazon. Now we got all the traffic when Amazon went to Nag because Amazon was only going to send 10% of their trucks over the north bridge. 90% south bridge, 10 north bridge. Now we're going to have 100% south bridge, 100% north bridge. And if you think that they're going to go from Walmart down Lockport to Walore Road and drive up Niagara Falls Boulevard to the 290, that's never going to happen. The amount of fuel that they would consume, the time they would consume, the wear and tear and the trucking that they would consume, they're going to blow over the highway right over Grand Island and go right there. And most of that traffic is coming in the middle of the night when I could shoot a cannon over that bridge and nobody would know.

Do you think a company logistics the arguments bridges are going to fall down? All the traffic arguments are just stupid because they make no sense whatsoever. They're never going to send trucks over to get hung up on the bridge when they got people waiting to empty them trucks and send that stuff out wherever it's going. They're never going to do it. So, if we're truly talking about one parcel and we need you, if you remove the 50% cap, does nothing, but you keep the 350,000 square foot. Does he come in and ask us to now subdivide that parcel so he can put multiple buildings on?

There there's still a a challenge on whether if you change this law now, it's going to affect him because he's already submitted. So you could just be affecting anything future, not him. We're going after one guy with after one parcel here. That's what we're doing parcel. But then we're capping the other eight people from ever expanding expanding. Yeah. You're handcuffing them, right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to do that? No. Like you said, you need I don't think I don't think we need to do

There are ways around it. you know, they could go get a use for an area variance from the zoning board of appeals. They'd come to the town and provide an incentive zoning application where if their project size would exceed that size limit, the town would have an opportunity to evaluate that particular project and whether its impacts at a size beyond 350,000 square feet would not be impactful enough where they make a difference or they would. Yeah, I'm sure you already hit that with your secret program. No, no, you seeker is mitigation, right?

This is a different I mean you're pretending like free fishing there's no way anybody could ever build anything. Getting an area variance is relatively simple. You wouldn't even need to prove the types of hardships you're talking about that you would need to get if you wanted a use variance which is also an option even if we adopted whatever law or whatever property. There are other angles that provide leverage to the town and give the town the ability to protect the interest of his residents, which is ultimately the goal here is the quality of life. The fact that we live on an island with four lanes on and four lanes off, that's not something that's covered by Seeker. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. Where is the quality of life standards?

There aren't any. That's where you rely on elected officials to preserve the quality of life of the residents. But what standards are what what do you use? Where are what is that standard? Do you have a list? Do you have a standard book or are you just making that up? Not to be rude, but you're saying the quality of I listen to the people who talk about the reasons that they choose to live here and pay taxes here and it's my job to try to protect those things for them. So that's when you have public comments and we've had a bazillion of them, right? this law, those projects, Amazon and everything in between. All that feedback people vouch for, our phones blow up all the time with people complaining.

Tom, I don't disagree with you, but we also have to protect the business owners that bought the properties. So, it's a we're working on a fine line here of going stepping beyond bounds on either end, whether it's your argument or, you know, the business's argument. The fact of the matter is is that we're not again we're not talking about all the M properties. We're talking about one property again. So we're either doing this for a reason or and to protect the quality of life of people on the island. We have to diversify our tax codes. I sit on the board of assessment review and we were hammered this year. Still are

hammered this year because the assessments come out and the tax rates come out and you're forcing people off of this asylum because the taxes are getting too high. People are forced to sell their houses that they've lived in for 50 years because they can't afford it anymore. And we're doing nothing to offset that for them. You really want to protect somebody's interest. Diversify your tax base. I would stop chasing it away. I would just like to know if this building, this 1.2 million building goes in. I live on East River over by the Holiday. How is that going to affect me my quality of life? It's not. It might actually improve it because maybe your taxes won't go up.

That's what I'm saying. Where's the quality of life standards? Okay, the people that call in. When we were on Amazon, we had people complaining that they can't build the Amazon building cuz that's the where the geese fly north and they would hit the flipping building. And I said, "Well, that's true because Mary West was sitting next to me. She was unw." And I said, "That's true, Mary. When geese take off, they close their eyes. So if the building's there, they're going to run into the building." I mean, that's how fascinating that that statement is. or the people like with with Franklin Banks property, there's a fox den back there. Where are the fox going to go?

I mean, I understand as a councilman, you have to weigh the stuff out, but what I'm getting at is I would like to see the quality of life booklet. Give me that booklet. Say, Dave, this is our quality of life. It's got to follow the following 10 rules, 20 rules. Otherwise, it's just up for interpretation. Now, Dave, I think a lot of that goes to the character of Grand Island. I mean, really, there's a long history of Grand Island of being a mostly rural island, quiet place to live. Okay. You know, with long established families. Um, how long how long have you lived here? Uh, 73 years.

Okay. So, I know that property was M1 for almost 40. Did it ever make you want to move? Would you ever say, "You know what? That's M1 over there that that that guy's going to build a big building. I'm getting the hell out of here." It It wouldn't affect us at all. Well, well, the other thing that killed me was the people that live right in that area. They were all against it. Yeah. They built their house across the street from a chemical plant. That was okay. The warehouse that holds sneakers and toasters bad. And good. And then when when they bought me when they bought those lots. Is that the truth? You're a real estate agent, Brad. When they bought those lots, they were 15K, right?

They couldn't give them away because everybody knew what was behind them, right? And then when they did say, "Well, I'm going to go pay 15,000 for a lot because lots are 50 grand. I'll go buy that for 15 and build my brand new house." Well, you should have did your due diligence to find out what's behind you. And then we have and we have another distribution company right there on that same street that was against the Amazon project. What about GP50? Yeah, he was against it. Yeah. And he's distributing his product all over the world, even to Russia, right? And he has two locations in that distributing. So back to your point, Norm, is all these other distribution guys affecting your quality of life? Not not to be personal,

but on the other hand, it's a balancing act. I think people find the island attractive for its quality of life and that's what Tom was talking about. You got to weigh that. You know, you hear a lot of outcry about this project from the same 15 people. Well, no, a lot more than 15 in this case. This is what I've said all.

I've been the biggest proponent on the town board. This is only Tom speaking, not the town board. So, I just want to give you some insight as to where it's coming for me. The reason that I was a big proponent of leaving the distribution facility thing in there is because there is a big difference between what Amazon had proposed to put in that building and what Amazon built across the river on River Road. You come home from work at 4:00, 5:00 and see all the Amazon last mile delivery vehicles lined up to get off at River Road. That is a much different impact on the island than some semi trucks and a logistics company that would have been operating in their best interest would have been to keep those semis and their employees off the bridges during peak times.

But Amazon never said they were going to put their It was not last mile distribution.

Exactly. They weren't going to put a last mile distribution facility on the island. I don't necessarily have a problem with true warehouses. a last mile distribution facility and the volume of traffic and the intensity of that use is something that I think would have a negative impact on the island. It's not. That's what I'm saying. That's why me personally, I was a proponent of leaving the distribution facil taking distribution facilities out as a permissive use because that intense use is something I think would have a negative impact on the quality of life for people here. warehouses? Not necessarily. However, with something like this, if it's 350,000 square feet, maybe that's fine. If somebody wants to build a two million two million square foot warehouse and they're only going to truck things in three times a month, then who would have a problem with that? The point is adopting this law or a law like that would give the town an additional opportunity to evaluate particular projects on their merits and identify those that may be a good fit versus those that may not.

Okay. You just special use permit over but special use permits are permitted uses at the end of the day. Right. You just mentioned if you only come in three times a month or I mean that was a just a generality like I said the Amazon. How do we know that the 1.2 million square foot building isn't going to do that? That's the biggest problem is even if you pass this, if somebody say we say, you know what, Amazon comes in. Use them for the example because that's what we're we had, right? They come in, they say, look, it's Amazon. Here's our plan. We know when our employees are coming. We know what the shifts are. We know when the trucks are going to be going. That's great.

And in 20 years, if it's not Amazon, you've got a 1.2 square or 1.2 million square foot building sitting there. What happens next? How do you police what the next use in that build? And that's where whoever used the whatever they come in, they'd have to come back to the planning board to see what we're going to put in this building, I guess. Would they? So, it's going to be a permitted use, but police warehouse trucks coming and going more frequently. It's not I I just think we're talking about policing usages and everything else, but I I just got to tell you, I mean, we pass laws on this town every day telling people what they cannot do, and nobody pleases anything.

We pass a bed and breakfast law that we're we have they have to change linens. Did you ever go and see if they put clean washcloths in the bathroom? Why did we make a law for it? We tried. But why did we Is anybody going to go police it? I tried to fix that. It didn't I mean, it's just Come on. We we we told hey we have a law we have a law that if I have a vegetable stand in front of my house I can only grow tomatoes that I grew. Now did you go see if he has his neighbor's tomato my point is even stupid he continues it becomes enforcability issues no matter what down the road which is

I I I still fall back to I understand what you're saying. I still fall back that we're really passing a law for one parcel and one individual that's owned that land for 30 plus years and and and as Councilman Dugatti, can I ask you this question? If you pass the 350 and this law does go into effect, does Hunter have an opportunity to sue the town?

Everybody always has an opportunity to sue anybody for anybody they want, even file use variance. Okay. And to your point, I mean, and Jen pointed this out earlier, this 350, whatever the number is, the same with the uses, that should be across the board. I mean, in my opinion, if this is the purpose, the intensity of that use, that shouldn't be permitted in any. So, to me, this isn't about one project. It's those types of intense. Did you follow that? Yeah, I know what you're saying. So, you're saying that he's trying to he's expanding that we shouldn't be talking about. do this. It should be all uses and we really need to look all we need to look at all the parts all zoning.

Okay. So then maybe we should let the zoning board do their job first and get their job done first before we're saying, "Well, let's throw this band-aid on the law right now, but then it, as Tom said, this should be in all the zones, so that falls back into the zoning board and and they're what we're eight months into it so far. We're moving now." And we're moving now. But I mean it was a little slow going but it's moving now. Is there any determination of will this affect Hunter or not? Yes. I heard a no before. Well, I mean there's still that's still the legal question right there.

I think the councilman can answer this question. Isn't it true to my information and belief that you can change the law be until he has a building permit in hand? Is that what the Spitzer's office has been saying? Well, basically, generally speaking, the law throughout the state is that you do not have a vested right in the use until you pull a building permit.

So, all his seeker that he's doing and all the money he's spending that that's part of the application process to get to get to the building permit. You're saying that, well, you spent all that money and you're so because we're going to change the law and now you can't build what you want to build. His contention is it's happened to him twice before and the town wound up paying for his project and he was very happy about it. Ideally, when we look back, what happened at the rate we work as res because that really grew bigger than any of us had the intentions or thought out and went.

Lesson learned. There's problems over there. or my family who lives over there and whatnot, but it is what's happened. But we can't you we should we can't just use maybe that miss I mean there that whole thing that's going over there is adding a ton of tax dollars to the town of Grand Island. So many people that live on the island work there on top of that but they pay good wages. But look at that. If we are going to have one piece of property, large property that can be developed in some sort sort of way that way. I mean, this is really the only piece of property that this could happen be and you got the throughway right there. So, ideally, it's ideal place for it where it's at. If we're going to do this, that's the spot for it.

And and don't forget, he was approved at one point. He was literally approved and it onlyffect the street from a chemical plant. So, who else is it going to affect? Well, he's right back. Well, wait a minute. That chemical plant's affected my quality of life. With respect, they live next to the throwaway, right, Brad? I don't I mean,

I don't want to neighbors for having a voice in what they feel is around them. You know, I I we should all obviously listen to the residents and what that's there, but on the other level, we have to protect the property owner that's been there on a law that's been on the books, a zone that's been on the books for years. So, there's a way that we can go about being reasonable about this. But my feeling is that I think we're trying to I know the frustration on a town level, board level, everything else level of wanting to get this done, but it's just I to me I think letting the zoning board work it out, make the soup, and look at how it goes and switching something. I mean, I don't know to push this through just to get it done or to get off somebody's list of to-dos. I don't know if that's so smart or responsible when this is the whole reason or the catalyst of jo of starting a board that's working really hard and I'm not talking about I'm just saying

with a paid planner. So should we table this and refer it to the zoning board? It could be a motion and long range referred it to the zoning board because they felt that the comprehensive plan is more of a thousand foot look than 100 foot or look. So their feeling was it's not up to the long range to be looking at setbacks and height variances and all that. That's out of their preview perview. So that's why I'm sure the town board would like some decision because I mean last meeting Kilmer chastised I'll say me pretty good because I canceled it and didn't have us come in and do that.

So you want us to vote on that law right now? Well, didn't we? No, we we could we saw this the first time we didn't approve it, right? I remember we did not approve. We did not approve. That was like months ago in the spring. Yeah. Yes. I I have that in front of me if you want the time frame. Yeah. Let us know that

February 24th. February 24th. Approving. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's over a year and a half ago that we turned it down. And now it's turned it down then as well. Yeah. And it hasn't changed. Well, no, it's gotten smaller. It went from 500 down to 350. It went up. It was 75K at 75 and 150 or something. And then

I'd like to make a motion to disapprove. Second. Anyone? I'll second you, Brett. Okay. Any further discussion? All in favor? I I I I all against No. Ch. I'm an I. You're not. So, it passed. Do we want to send something to the town board of our notes or something of what we all discussed so that they understand? We're going to get our money. Yeah. Get the minutes. Got two members here also that can delay the concerns. Board members are here.

Okay. We're moving on. Okay. The next is the agricultural law. Does anybody know? I can say. Good. So, go ahead. Yeah. I don't So, nothing. This came to us in October. We had tabled it because remember I said that the egg board would want to come in and talk about this and Sheila came in and talked to us

and we talked about it and it was about you know um the animals and how much of a pasture and having a 100 foot point yard it wouldn't and so anyways you guys approved it at that point. It is now gone to the town board. The town board had asked if we added in um the density chart on F on the very the very end there. They just wanted a little bit more those those sentences at the end that says the total livestock is not cumulative per acre but exclusive. Jen, can you explain why they have the total per acre on two to five? Why don't you just say

it's because that's the Cornell extension and it depend they they look at it so like a cow. We just reprove the one for the three miniature cows. They don't consider that a full-size cow. I'm not a farmer on a certain level. I don't get it. But no, but why do you need two dash? Why can't you just say five? Two to five. Why don't you just say five? Because that's the Cornell extension based on the size. So Sheila had explained to the town board that it's like for the animals it's largely it would be weight driven. Yes. So the two to five depending on the size the sheep or goats would get. But that's the thing like once you same thing with

she would think she's a sheep five little sheep and now you have five huge goats. Who's going to go out and measure them? Give Ron a scale. Well the other thing that go get him to stand on the scale. This end up here in part because of my comments. I think it did. Well it was the add-on. So we already approved this. So, what this board's looking at is the all right is those two sentences at the end is what's added since you've seen it at the bottom of the chart was just to define a little bit more as to how you can look at this and figure out

I think should be four votes instead of five. The only thing that came up during the during summer discussions was originally when it was before the town board the first time after I think it had been you guys. There was some discussion during our workshop about whether or not front yard setback should be included in the acreage that will be used to calculate the amount of animals you have.

And at first I kind of chuckled and said, "Well, sounds like that would make Ron's life pretty miserable." which is true. And then I read the definition of F and it says density table for large and I quote backyard and animals which seem perhaps led me to believe that perhaps the front yard setback ought not to be included in the acreage calculation. But so when I drive around and I see chickens on people's front yards, we just supposed to shoot them on site. This doesn't apply to chickens. Oh, okay. Every chicken law. Hi. I approve. Well, I'm still I'm still baffled by a cattle on a horse is one. Yeah, that's other pigs are two to four. I don't get it. Yeah.

Really don't. They went back and forth saying like to exactly what Tom is saying, weight and all that. So, we went to the Cornell and they're the gold standard for guidance on all of this and that is a chart that they had. So, we picked from the animals that we told me that you have a horse, you twice as large as another. I know. So I got I have my question is if this is for large animals, sheep and goats are in the same category as cattle and horses. Alpacas and lamas. Dave made a motion to approve. Second. Anyone

I Yeah, I don't want to put any any any further discussion. All in favor? I. Anyone opposed? Sorry. Second. I didn't hear. Okay. Thank you. Make sure I'm on the 10 point. Okay.

Voted seven times received and filed report on the comp plan. We talked about basically was all about the wolf things. We've done that. Unfinished business is the other law. Property maintenance law. Is that going any place? Oh, it's in front of us. I think it went to the town. Did it go to the county? Back home yet? I think so. It's at the 30 days. So I think you guys So do we want to table this until we hear back from the county? Sure.

Or do we what? Anyone got any want to talk about it? I'm only Larry to take it because we skipped it last month. So one of us might not I got I got chewed out for that one too. Motion to table. I could be next. Somebody else table it to those who weren't on the line. I watched the meeting on Zoom and was not happy that we didn't that we discontinued our meeting last month. I make a motion to table. It's timing. I know you don't want second. Is anybody going to second my motion? Is anyone seconding Brad's motion at table? I would just maybe amend Brad until we get comments back from the county.

Sure. We're Yeah, let's put it table until we get our comments back from the county. Second by Dave. Any further discussion? Okay. Do we want to talk about any of it? Just discussion or we're just tableing it and going away. I see enforcement as being just a huge issue here. I think it's worth talking about. I Well, I'll tell you the guy who drafted a large piece of it is one of the boots on the ground enforcement. Didn't have a lot of input into this. I have no idea. I I believe from department

I know one thing substantiaring right talk about that. Let me ask you do did do we already have a law in the books about the trees talk about we already have a law in the book about the people with property and their trees are falling and they're causing a hazard to somebody else that they have to be taken care of. Do we not have that? The problem is is what we have and the process of writing and doing and implementing literally gets you like three to six months down the road. Yeah.

Of being able to do anything. This is about being able to expediently address situations that come about rather than waiting for it for three months and then oh there's snow on the ground because they didn't cut the grass and we can't tell. And what what did we achieve? The sidewalk doesn't snow but it just melted and now and now it's gone. But I think code enforcement across the board is we don't have enough. I mean, we heard about the parking of the trucks down by Kelly's and we said no. They're back. They're back. They've never left. I was going to say, why did they leave? Yes. No. Uh we said the Andersons can't have the amount of tables they have in the front yard. They're there. Um that was Adrian's. You're right.

No, that was Anderson's. They came back to us with a new plan two months ago. We said we can only have eight. Only got a lot more than eight. I just drove by there. Um, so I mean code enforcement itself, I mean, you don't follow up. No, my two cents. I mean, look at look at the building that's being built that was completely different. Two of them and the same owner.

I mean, look at the snowfall. You have to get your snow removed within 24 hours after a snowstorm. What if we have a major storm and you hired Johnny's snowball service and he can't get there for three days? Well, now you violated the law because you're supposed to do it within 24 hours. So, so I don't know. Are we putting the town in the position of shovel and snow and cut? It's the same thing again. We It's not enforcable. It's like the clean washcloth at the bed and breakfast.

It sounds more like a city law. Like I'm from Niagara Falls. There is no space like this Niagara Falls. It's house after house and right sounds like a city law or is this I understand what the problem that they're having is enforcement. So if you don't shovel your snow, let's out use grass. You don't cut your grass. Joe Blow complains. They go out and inspect. They send you a letter. You have 30 days to cut your grass. You don't cut your grass. Then they have a certain time frame. You can correct me if I'm wrong, Tom. Please. You write it for court though.

Then you have to do the reports, give it to the lawyer, get it to go to court. By the time they're in court, it's there's snow on the ground. The grass is over with or it's already been cut. And then the court and then they're saying the court the court's given them three months to comply. Well, now it's back to snow season again. It's just taken too long. So maybe we need a more teeth of enforcement. Well, and that's this proposed law does a little bit of both. It it both gives the ability to issue more kind of instantaneous citations.

But then it goes that extra mile and gives the town the ability to go do it. I tell you that's what makes me kind of hesitant about adopting this law is you're in this snow. I'm living next to Pete and I don't like Pete. So every time this grass gets over eight inches, I'm going to call and complain about Pete. The town's going to go cut Pete's grass. Meanwhile, you know, quiet neighbor over here might have grass that's two feet long and nobody's bothering him. And it becomes that portion of it creates a real So here's puts the town in a bad spot. I call and complain about P2. The question is, I call the president. Isn't some more of the spirit of this law trying to be written up is to help with some of our zombie house problems and whatnot.

That's pretty much gone though. The zombie house problems, those banks are now maintaining all that property. For the most part, I haven't seen any. Brad, say a resident has a tree growing on through his pool and it's sitting there. How is this law going to help that? That's what I'm asking, Brad. So if that guy with a tree growing, say a resident has a tree growing through his pool, how is this law going to help enforce that getting cleaned up?

There's no Yeah, there's no rule about you. Like I what I'm what I'm think what I'm saying is is talking to one of the councilmen that that in the spirit of this law is just saying that you know his I think his goal is to help with those situations but I don't necessarily see how this is going to help with those kind of situations the zombie homes and situations. And isn't this law the grass cutting in the rightway? No, I think I think it's the whole Yeah. So, okay. So, Jen, are you on East River? Do you have still have a state stitch?

Yes. Okay. So, does Jen have to cut her state stitch with this law? Any of us? Well, does this law kick in and say, "Hey, no, you don't." Because they do it. They'll maintain it several times a year. Yeah. But I'm When I was a kid, I remember the big trucks coming down and cutting all that. Yeah. But I'm gonna go by Jen's house and say, "You know what? Jen hasn't cut that state stitch and it's now 3 feet tall and the county hasn't come around. So, I'm going to call the town and say she's not cutting her property,

but it's in the rightway. We both take care like you're on East River. You cut a big section of the rightway as your lawn like me. It's not ours, but we're cutting it, maintaining it. So why isn't her state stitch in the rightway? Well, but to that point, some of residential properties, the rightway is, you know, owned by the town, right? Like I'm on East River and they have 40 40 almost 50 feet of my front yard is in the right. Yeah. So is the town going to cut that property if I complain about your grits? Right. If I stop cutting it, yeah,

you're going to drive by and say, you know, I'm I'm tired of Bruno not cutting his lawn and you're going to call the building department. They're going to send come out if I don't cut it. They're going to come and cut it and then what do you do? You put the bill on the tax bill, put the bill on the tax bill and someone's got to do that paperwork. It just seems to be like realistically it works. It seems like they enforcing it more of an enforcement correction and not a grass snow removal. That's why like being able to issue citations if it's been 24 hours since the snow instead of waiting for the process to go being able to just walk up and issue citation. Like I know, okay,

it's not a city law, but it's still the purpose of having sidewalks is to keep people off the street. Got it. I mean, regardless of the reason, like I've always never wanted the sidewalks waved. the town board or the town needs to have the ability to try and get compliance and we don't really have it on that right. So those with respect to issuing citations personally and I he can give you his two cents. I'd be more inclined to adopt something that gives us more teeth respect to being able to issue citations for violations sooner rather than later. But as far as the town being in a position to take the stuff on, that just makes me even the snow plow. We had a guy in the plaza this year

and there was a period of time where he only plowed Yeah. like a couple of drive lanes like we can go plow the entire plaza now because this guy's not doing it like it well generally a box of worms be right now because we complain if you hire a snow plow service you generally don't plow your driveway unless you have more than two inches of snow three yours is three lot of them don't take care of the sidewalk anyways you're still the sidewalk yourself but but you and me and we're taking our families to Disney and we get bomb with a snowstorm here. We're on We're at Disney in the boardwalk having a good time and now our sidewalks haven't been shoveled. Citation.

So when we get home, we're going to get a nice hefty taxi. I mean, and I the person that lives directly across the street from hers, their sidewalk in the five years I've lived there has never once been touched. That's inappropriate. going on vacation at one time. Like that's where I think there's some merit to giving the town the ability to go and check. Okay, hey, we're gonna leave a warning this time and the next time you come by, you're gonna get a citation because maybe Dave wasn't on vac he was on vacation the first time and it doesn't happen again. But to go and have somebody go out and do that stuff gives me flashbacks from being on the HOA at Fairway Dream.

Well, I mean that that's actually a pretty good analogy with respect to what it comes down to, right? I'm going to get the shakes pretty soon. I was the vice president for two years. That was the longest 20 years of my life. Unbelievable. Okay, we're good. Everybody good? Does it make sense to separate the grass from the snow on the sidewalk because you have a safety issue versus be just an aesthetics complaint? Well, grass can be a safety, too. I mean, you can get rodents. Can you just have it as simple as maintain your property? That's Well, I mean, when I talked to the building department, they brought they said when you don't cut your grass, it's a habitat for Well, it's a wild animal.

Like, we're never going to get rid of them things. The geese in my backyard. Okay. Forward. Long road. You had a motion and a second table. Oh, that was Yeah, we had a motion and a second to table. Okay. Sorry. Thank you, Bob. All in favor? I think we end up discussion. All in favor of I. Anyone opposed? Uh, long road still in the works. I mean, Tom, any input from the town board of status? The town board rejected his last submitt. So, and it's been since,

right? Well, yeah, but it's the town board rejected his last submitt as still not answering the questions that they asked to have done. And so that's where we sit. Okay. It just remains on the table. Okay. And then check motion to table. Yeah. Motion to table. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? Did this basically say applicant not here? Reason. Okay. Well, I think we should let the kid know

the letter to actually this morning. He called me first talking. So,

okay. Who made the motion? I got motion to table. Yeah. On which one? Which one? No, I didn't make that motion. I made the motion. Second motion to table second.

Okay. Even with the checklist, these people don't don't get it. You know what to submit. Oh, we got to back up. Craig's not a voting member tonight. So, what's what's your second? Well, submit the second table. Oh, second. Sorry. Yeah. Second by motion by me, second by Dave. All in favor? I. Okay. Thanks. Motion to close. Just a comment. You know, even with the the detailed checklist, these people just go through and scratch