Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

planning staff and that will be followed by uh a presentation from the applicant not to exceed 10 minutes. We will then open the floor to comment from the members of the public. Um anyone wishing to address the planning commission on any agenda item is permitted three minutes to speak at the podium. When addressing the planning commission, please start by providing your name, address, and the nature of your interest in the project and direct your comments to the planning commission and not to the applicants. The audience is instructed to refrain from applauding or jeering other commenters. Exhibits may be displayed by the applicants or by members of the public at the podium. Written correspondence received by uh the planning department as of noon yesterday has been forwarded to the commission and is part of the public record. Any additional written materials that anyone wishes to place into the record must be read during public comment during your threeinut limit. For all speakers, please pay attention to the uh traffic light timing device near the podium. That device will display a yellow warning light when you have 30 seconds left in your three minutes and then a red light when your time has expired. After the public comment period, the applicant or their representative is entitled to a two-minute response. After that, the applicant will take their seat back in the audience. At that point, the public portion for the agenda item is closed and the planning commission will proceed to discuss the item. We will receive no additional public or applicant comments during planning commission discussion unless requested by a planning commissioner. And finally, please note that the microphones in this room are very sensitive and that the meeting is being broadcast live. Please turn off or silence your cell phones uh and please refrain from speaking during any of the presentations because that

will uh be picked up by the the microphone. So, uh, we will begin with the general business section on our agenda. Um, and item one is introduction of staff reports and all other documents submitted to the planning commission at this meeting into the official record. Is there a motion? Accept. Motion by Kristen and second by Jen. Um, all in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay, that motion carries. Um, item two is approval of the June 5th, 2025 planning commission meeting minutes. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion. Motion by Mike, second by Kristen. All in favor? Any opposed? Okay, that carries. Um, and then item three is May court's review and public comment. Uh, Bruce, is there any no reports? Okay. Uh is any member of the public here to comment on May courts by any chance? Okay. Uh that brings us to the uh new business section of our agenda. Item one is 180 and 190 Pinerest Drive. And we will begin with the staff report. All right. Uh, good evening. Uh, as was

just mentioned, this is a reason request for 180 and 190 Pine Crest Drive. All right. Can you click it for me or not? Sir. Um, so this is a reszone from uh mixed density residential to a slightly higher density mixed density residential RM1 to RM2. Um, the straight rezone with a conceptual plan. This plan is not binding. Um, it it would still need to be further engineered, designed, and reviewed for um compliance. Uh, which is where it's stating at the front. But within this concept, what about me or you? Thank you, sir. Uh within this concept, um the applicant is proposing 21 beds. Um rear loaded parking underneath the footprint of the building. Um it it they will eventually combine the two parcels. Um and the concept includes 62% of that as green space. Um and there's going to be a new sidewalk on on the North View frontage. um which kind of wraps around the corner from Pine Crest. So, we'll get to that. Okay. Uh here's an aerial image um just kind of showing the J position of the property with uh UG's Foley Field, some town homes to the south. Sorry guys, poor remote. Um this is a look at the future land use map. Um worth calling out this is not a change to the future land use map. It was and is proposing to remain as a mixed density residential. Um this however obviously would be a change to the zoning map. So this is kind of what it would look like. Um

right now the property is RM1. It's surrounded by a variety of RM1 properties. Um it would bump up to RM2. Um it's kind of an incremental increase for for the density. Um and this is our GIS map. There there are a couple things I want to talk about here. Um first and foremost, you can see the environmental areas that that stream buffer on the north side of the property. Um we'll circle back to that, but I want you to be able to see that because this is just a really clear image. Um I also wanted to speak to kind of the variety of housing types that we already have in this area. Um it's it's a mix of duplexes, single family homes, got some apartments and town homes. Um it it truly is a mixed density residential area. Um which, you know, we have a lot of RM areas that kind of lean heavily in one direction or the other, but but this is a true mix. Um you know, looking back at the uh at the previous map, you can see to the south we've got some more um single family focused zoning. Um, so this is already in the denser area of this neighborhood. Uh, street view images of the two existing homes. We've got a couple photos, but this is just to kind of contextualize everything. Um, so that top photo is looking north on Pineest. You can see the existing houses on the left. You've got Folley Field on the right. Um, the below image is just an inverse of that. We're now looking south on Prime Crest. So you can see the houses on the right. You can see the existing town homes across. I believe that's South View. Um goodness. Um this would be South View. Uh that that top photo is standing kind of at that intersection taking a look

down the street. Um and then this this bottom photo is actually a side view of 190 Pinerest. Um, and I kind of wanted to call attention to the existing parking situation um, in this area. Uh, we recognize that there is a lot of street parking. Um, but a lot of these existing single family homes are um, legal non-conforming uses is is I suppose how I would phrase that. So, this is not a typical arrangement that we would see. There's some accessory structures in in the back. Um, you've got lots of people parking off of the driveway. um they're they're parking where they can. Um but it's worth calling that out as an existing condition. Um speaking of existing conditions, this is a sheet showing what's out there. Um again, on the top you can see the uh environmental areas and the 75 ft um buffer, environmental areas buffer. Um you know, we can see the existing paving, the existing structures, that driveway we just talked about. um on the south side. See, this is what we here to discuss the reason and this proposed concept. Um so this is this is what the projects could potentially transition to. Um they are proposing seven units um I believe three bedrooms each comes out to 21 beds. Um it's a 877 acre parcel. Um so it's it's right in line with RM2 density. Um you can see they've got a a pull in and that's uh the the rear loading um parking is is would be obviously on the back end that the inside of this this kind of network. Um it's worth mentioning that the um fire marshall's

office did have some critiques about the way this is shown. So again, if and when this were to ever to come through for plans review, that's the kind of thing that we would address at that time. Um but for conceptual purposes this was absolutely sufficient. Um and so staff recommends approval. Um it is compatible with the 2023 comprehensive plan. Um it is an infill redevelopment um of of existing property and and kind of utilizes what what's available um without getting into that stream buffer which which is that's a good thing. That's a plus. Um and and it leads into encouraging responsible and environmentally friendly development. Um you know, if if single family homes were to go back on this parcel, um by code, single family homes can have limited construction within the buffer. Um this sort of project, this type of project does not have that allowance. So, it really does force them to concentrate the the construction on the south side of Swift properties. um is compatible with the future land use map because that's not changing. Um the zoning map obviously gets an update because this is an incremental bump um for the area. Um and it it introduces it doesn't introduce but but but it provides a a further variety of housing types in this area. Um again spoke at the top about there being an existing mix right now. Um this kind of furthers that trend. Um, you know, the applicant has stated that it would add to the tax base while uh not pulling heavily on public infrastructure. Um, that there wouldn't be a whole lot of improvements needed to to get this up and running. Um, and and frankly, it's it's situated in a very nice place. I I think everybody

here uh has very high opinions of the neighborhood that this is in. Uh, and and for good reason. Um, and it it's a good reason to put people close to the putting people close to these things makes it easier for people to interact with with things like uh Barrow Elementary. Um, Five Points Proper with stores and restaurants. The UG Foley Field is right across the street. Um, staff views all of this as as a good thing and so we recommend approval. Thank you. All right. Next we will hear from the It was giving me trouble. Good luck. All right. May ask Mark to cycle through. We really only have a few. Uh good evening. My name is Ed Lane uh with SPG Planners and Engineers, 17 Electric Avenue. Um so ju just as presented we are requesting a straight reszone from RM1 to RM2 um for these two subject parcels and our approach here is we believe these two uh parcels are very well situated for this kind of small incremental infill uh housing redevelopment. And uh what I what I mean by well situated is a few things. Well one is proximity to Foleyfield. Foleyfield is a unique use and it's an intense use land use um and with the grand stand at Foley kind of being directly adjacent to that um and on the edge of kind of the this multifamily um mixeduse density block of the

neighborhood. It's kind of a good buffer between those those uh uh uses. Uh in addition, uh you know, Five Points has a fantastic street network that just allows you many ways to get from A to B, but Einrest Drive, uh intend to be a cutthrough or a little bit of a collector in the neighborhood, uh especially during events. Um and so kind of lining a little bit larger buildings there along that corridor and edge, uh is is an appropriate way to to redevelop. Um and so uh and and of course its proximity to Five Points and all that that affords all the amenities being able to walk to things we think makes it uh appealing for uh for sale homes. Um it's of course appealing to rental as well with campus there but we think with nice high quality u attached town homes it could be a good forale housing choice in this neighborhood. It is compatible with the future land use uh map as stated and the project scale and form and mask you know mirror other other uh projects in the neighborhood and so it it it would not stand out and especially Foley Commons directly to the south is very similar you know three-story uh attached town homes um that have that have been there I think since 2005 2006 um there are many sites constraints on these two lots, the buffers that we discussed, there's a sewer easement, and then there's power line uh setbacks. And what these serve to do is they do kind of push everything to the front corner of of North View and Pinerest, which is not a bad thing uh to to engage that corner, but that that heavily informs the concept plan that you saw there that I know is not binding, but any concept

plan is going to have to build in in that front corner. So, I want to spend a little bit of time about talking then why the RM2 because the the Foley Commons project directly to the south of of this is RM1. It was built accord to the RM code. Now, that was a long time ago. Construction costs were different, but nevertheless, it was built to to RM1 standards. the concept plan before you in terms of the number of units, its size, its layout could be built under the current zoning right now. Just buy right, go go go pull permits for that. Um the only difference would be it would have 13 beds instead of 21. And uh but that doesn't tell the whole story. We're not just asking we want more density because we want more density. Um, if you think about it, the the two existing lots have seven bedrooms currently. Um, and so it doesn't make a lot of sense, nor is it really feasible to demolish two completely fine homes and a garage to then redevelop this site and all the cost that comes with that just to get six extra extra bedrooms. And so what is much more likely to happen under the RM1 designation and in fact is happening on other parcels in this neighborhood is instead trying to to cram in some extra structures where where it can fit to get you know whatever density you can get if an additional six beds could could be achieved. Um but but that kind of pattern of development you it ends up very disjointed. The homes don't engage the street. They're not context sensitive at all. Um, and importantly, it would definitely be rental only. That kind of, you know, chaotic layout to maximize the density w is not conducive

to to ownership or condo ownership. And so getting the density bump really opens up the possibility to look at this more comprehensively and and able to redevelop it with intent and and coherence. Um, and so it engages the street. It it takes advantage of the fact that it is right next to Fully Field and let that be part of the identity of this uh project. You can hide the parking behind and under in the the basement garages. And it just allows more things. One thing to to to draw attention to is we really wanted some type of um uh for for the the homeowner association here, some type of gathering space and a shared amenity. It's a it's a tight site, but there's opportunities for amenities. So, one concept that we've explored is like a rooftop terrace that would be on the corner looking out at the Foley outfield. Um, the concept shown here is really more at street level at the corner there. both for visibility reasons um but also as kind of this communal front porch, if you will, kind of shared amenity space of a recessed patio that that is right there proud on the corner and would have access back into the structure with a with a shared kitchen or storage space, but would just allow uh the the homeowners here to gather and have have events. Um, and so, uh, a quick note about traffic, as I know there's always a lot of concern about that. The the the, uh, modeled increase in traffic count here would be a net of 22 extra trips per day and per peak hour, it would be two extra trips, you know, every 60 minutes. So, a very modest impact on traffic given the modest density of the project. Um, and of course, as we mentioned, you know, the five points, the fantastic street

network just allows dispersement of traffic and especially during peak hours, you can find a different way to get to to where you need to go. We we we're very much aware of some many in the neighborhood that are not in favor of this project, uh, are not happy about it and and view this almost as a larger sign of what is happening to the neighborhood. So, we want to be sensitive to that and if there's any else that we could do to to consider in the concept plan, we're eager to hear that. Um and our position is just that a as um as a way to how do we bring more housing uh avail diversity and housing types to Athens, this type of kind of smallcale incremental uh you know gentle density along the edges of neighborhoods and on corridors that are very contextsensitive to the particular parcels that also at least open up the possibility of fourell uh home ownership uh I think is a sensible strategy on how to do that. Um and in fact I think probably a necessary strategy on how to approach uh bringing more more housing um uh within within these existing neighborhoods. And so uh you know with that we respectfully ask for your approval in this resone. Uh there's a few others here to speak. Um and I'm available to answer any questions you may have, but I appreciate your time. Thank you, Mr. Lane. Uh next, we'll open it up to public comment. Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Hello. My name is Scott Weaver. I'm uh

currently at 2145 Rivercliff Drive in Roswell, Georgia. And I'm one of the owner developers. My business partner Kevin Bentley and I um are in this endeavor together. Um Kevin and I are both um UG graduates, 96. Um, pretty much everyone in my family, my wife's family, my brother, my sister, my wife's parents have been UG and Georgia, you know, fans our whole life. We've been in Athens hundreds and hundreds of times. Uh, this city uh means so much to us and this um, you know, being next to Foley Field. We go to a lot of baseball games. Kevin, uh, is an umpire. He he loves baseball. He and I have had this dream for a long time. Uh, and we through a through a series of relationships and a stroke of luck, we acquired these properties. Um, and we've always loved the diversity of the Five Points area where you can walk a block and be at, you know, restaurants and shops and whatnot. But something like this is somewhere I want to live. Um, we want to build this development not for short-term rentals, not for student housing. I want to live there when when we build these properties. And so does he. Um, so this is going to be a a long-term for sale uh development to create some long-term value when we really want to respect the the quality the character of the Five Points area. We're not just going to throw up some, you know, rickety many beds as we can get. This is going to be a quality uh construction. We were we were inspired by Foley Commons. Um, and we think this is a good extension of that. Um, so we just um really hope that this uh committee will will see that vision and allow us to push this through. Um, our dream. So, thanks for Thank you, Mr. Weaver. Is there any

other member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Hello, I'm Terry Oswbolt. Feel like a lifelong resident of Athens. I came here in 64, 1964 under the Vince Douly regime. So I I feel like that particular block or two right there is where I was born and bred. Spent my whole life there. Can you give your address, Mr. Rose? My address is 225 St. George Drive off Timothy Road. So, um I've made a commitment to purchase one of these fine condos and use it for myself, pass it down to my children and their children. And there's a reason for that. My son played baseball there four years and his wife played in the coliseum four years. She was a starter. So we that's our life there. So we can only see a great experience living there. Uh so and I do plan to pass that property down to my children and hopefully their children. It's quality quality project. I've owned seven properties within 500 yards of this grandstand project. So I I cherish this area. It's a special area. Can't find You really can't find another area like it that's got all five points and the athletic department have to offer.

Each of my properties were greatly improved and they're an asset to the Five Points area. As you know, some properties can get run down when neglected. Our my theory is improve what you got and help others enjoy it. I see this project as quite an asset to this area. It's very unique. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Osborne. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this application? Step right up. Line up at the podium. Person gets three minutes. Hi, my name is Bob White. I live at 195 O Farerrell Street, just around the corner from this proposed um grand stand at Foley. I um walk by this place at least twice a day with my dog. um you know when I saw the variance u request go up you know obviously I did some research on this and um you know my concern is that we're losing the neighborhoods within Athens Clark County um you know we've got lots of high density areas obviously in the immediate downtown area um I'm concerned when we continue to go down that road of pushing density um you know it's just Um I the renderings and all look great of this. Um but again we start to lose the the concept as far as the neighborhoods

are concerned. Five points is a special area and um I know that this is already RM1. It is um you know there is a mixed is as Zach mentioned there's a mixed group of of places around there but um you know I just am very concerned in terms of how as we continue to push the edge as far as density is concerned and you know sarcasm intended you mentioned that the tax base is increased. If that's the case are we going to start to see our taxes lower because of the increase when we're starting to do this over and over and over again with high density areas. you know, we consistently see our our property taxes continue to rise and yet we're pushing in more and more um within areas like this right here. So, obviously, I have a concern that we're going to lose the flavor of the neighborhood if we continue to do this. Um I respect the gentlemen and what they do and their ties and loyalty to the University of Georgia. I'm the same way. But again, I live here full-time and you know, I I want to see it remain a neighborhood. Um, so thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. White. Anyone else? Uh, my name is Marilyn Bickers and I reside at 197 Witherspoon Court. Um, I'm coming here tonight because I really just heard about this recently. I've been out of town, so I don't know all of the comments that have been written in. Uh, but I um I did um see your post on Friends of Five Points. Uh, and I was very impressed with that. So, in a way, so I'm in between um thinking this is a

really good thing. But the the thing I haven't heard and that would cause me to oppose it is that um I've heard a lot about Foley Field and about the um the allegiance to the University of Georgia. I'm a double dog myself, so I have my credentials. Uh I raised my family in Athens. Uh what I have not heard is the encroachment on Barrow School. Um and whether uh any of the um housing might actually uh be available to people who uh would raise families and send their children to Barrow School. My children went to Barrow. Now my grandsons are going to Barrow. And um so we're very much a part of this community and we very much value um Barrow School and it was there before all that other stuff was. If you may remember it's 102 years old. Um so I just want to raise that concern that uh in if this goes through that there be um real sensitivity to the fact that it is so very close to an elementary school. Um a lot of kids walk to and from school. Uh the buses go off Rutherford uh road. that Pinerest is filled with cars in the afternoon uh to pick up kids from from Barrow. Uh I know because I've been in those lines occasionally myself. Um and I would just want it still to be a place that reflects the um Athens community uh every bit as much as it

reflects the University of Georgia community. Thank you. Is there anyone else? Hi, I'm Mary Moore. I live at 228 Parkway Drive and um I wasn't going to speak tonight, but um the renderings are beautiful. I have no issue with what he presented tonight on the way it looks, but I don't really think that's why we're here tonight. The issue is a reason. It's not to say that this is a beautiful development. Many years ago, a pocket development was done across the street to change from residential R1 to RM1. Um now that's being used to justify why you should do another pocket um reszone for this two house these two one one house slots. Um, so my my concern is where does it stop? I have I live not close to this, not too far away, but in a different part of Five Points, but say two houses come up for sale in my neighborhood. Are you going to be asked to reszone that to a higher density than what it is now? I just don't understand where it stops and I think it's very slippery slope. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Moore. Next. Yes, ma'am. I have a procedural question if I could ask first. I had Could you step up to the podium and identify yourself? Uh, I was wondering if I could ask before I start because it will affect how fast I talk. Two people gave me letters to distribute that had been said Lucy had said that we could they could do that. Um, one was 84 and wheelchair couldn't get here and the other the portal was down and she's out of town. I'm just wondering I can read them in but it's

going to mean my letter and two other long letters and I'll read I can talk really fast. Um well teacher yeah our our uh rules state that anyone wishing to add written material at this late stage you know if it was submitted yesterday it would be in what we've received in the official record already and and if any of these were okay then was they're already that's already in the record if that's true anything that you wish to read into the record today just must be done within three minutes I'll start and I'll read the second one which is shorter which was the wheelchair situation Okay. Um, good evening. My name is Hillilary Rustin and I live at 145 Millage Terrace. Um, and I am here to respectfully urge you to deny the request to reszone the two properties on Pinefest. I want to thank you for your service to the commission. I know it is a big sacrifice of time and it is very complex as I've tried to research the history of zoning in this area. Um, it's got lots of layers of complexity. Uh this section of Athens just adjacent to the university is unique and a well-loved area and as was say stated it's it is a real mix of homes and lots of cottages, wonderful little cottage communities and duplexes all with a relatively small scale. Um this existing scale has preserved greenery, walkability and a sense of safety that benefits the families, students and elderly neighbors alike. Um, back in 2000, these properties were zoned as RM1 along North View, East Rutherford, and this part of Pinerest to the best of what I understand. And, um, at that time, there were still single family homes, duplexes, and cottage courts. And there was a kind of a a good rhythm and a sense for the neighborhood. Uh, RM1 may not have been the right designation for each individual property. And it's still confusing to me whether RM1 is one, two stories or three

stories. I kind of wish it was a a twotory and then maybe RM2 would distinguish it because I do think that there aren't properties over two stories really in that area. Um, East Rutherford North view that area of Plankrest. Um, RM2 allows for a much greater height and density and lot coverage and I don't think it's compatible and I think that's why it wasn't zoned RM2 in the first place and we've seen what happens when compatibility is ignored. I think Foley Commons which was built in 2007 is out of character with the neighborhood and is a bit of a jarring um building to walk by. Um, and there seems to be some disagreement whether it fully conforms to RM standards. that is beyond my understanding. Um the difference between RM1 and RM2 has been explained to me a couple of times as relatively insignificant. I think it was kind of said that here, but I think it is very significant if you are living next door to it. Um and it almost doubles the number of people on the lot. It increases the height, reduces the green space, and really changes the feeling of the neighborhood. and a setback from the street um also decreases which I think is a is um important for safety and uh the feeling of the neighborhood the green nature the traffic is already an issue on Pinest. I walk by it every day and um it is tight corners people with dogs strollers and we are seeing that new construction on East Rutherford that is already kind of a worrying trend. So the main thing is the um to not have a precedent of reszoning. It's zoned RM1. It was purchased as RM1. It should stay with R as RM1. And um for all of us that have empty lots near us. I think we're all concerned and worried that spot zoning or you know persuasive development will influence your decisions. I hope that you stick to that

unless there's a really compelling reason for an area. I hope that that stays um your guiding um direction. The other one was an 84y old woman who grew up nearby. Her name is Linda Keith and she lives in the area and she's worried about Barrow School, mostly safety for Barrow School. Thank you, Miss Rustin. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak on this application? All right. Uh Mr. Lane, you're entitled to two minutes to speak. Um the I think the one thing that the the items brought up with Barrow. Um I I think the answer is with these are three bedrooms. These would be three-bedroom town homes that I think a family, you know, could definitely live here and and if had kids that age could could go to Barrow. um you know the we're calling it the grandstand at Foley just because of its proximity there but very much that would be a possibility you know it is in the five points neighborhood and these are probably going to be on the higher end but but that's a possibility um in terms of you know some of the walking this would not be specific to to our proposal but just any redevelopment of this site would add a sidewalk on North View which I think is good there's a lot parking on the side, but not a lot of sidewalk. So, people tend to walk in the street. This would would do a little bit better to to help bring more sidewalk there. But, um, but anyway, yeah, that's that's really all that's a response. Thank you, Mr. Lane. That concludes the public comment portion um of our presentation and so we will bring it back behind the rail. Um, and let me just preface um I I open it

up. I just want to take the chair's prerogative to address something that came up in some of the public comments uh which uh concerned the question of whether an approval of a reason like this establishes a precedent. Right? I understand that um sometimes neighbors are concerned about uh less about a particular project than about is this the uh first domino and and then the whole neighborhood becomes uh you know uh different than than the way that it was. And so I just want to say a few words about that. Um and and uh the the uh only issue that is before the planning commission in this application and that will be before the mayor and commission in this application concerns a reszone on this parcel. Uh reszones like this do not establish a precedent. There's an entirely different process um that happens every five years called the future land use uh mat process and that's actually underway now. Um and we'll be back before this body in uh in a week for one meeting and then in a month for another meeting. Uh and that addresses questions of bigger picture longer term, you know, looking at Athens projected population growth. Uh how many new houses are going to be needed to accommodate the number of new people that are expected to be here in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years? that process is underway and and uh and can establish precedents in the sense that you know uh the future land use uh map that comes out of that process which has been an extensive public process over the last year and is ongoing that map u can uh designate areas of you know low density for for slightly higher density or or considerably higher density that sort of

thing happens in that process but this is just a zone of a single parcel um and absolutely does not have the ability to set right. So our our body's consideration and our discussion tonight will not um address the sort of you know question of like should five points you know look more like this application that's not before us at all. This is simply on this piece of land in this particular location is the thing that is proposed uh the appropriate land use for Athens, clar county. So, I just wanted to say that both to uh assuage some of the concerns that I heard expressed on the subject of whether this sets a precedent because it does not, but also just to um explain why our discussion is going to be more focused on the particular application um in front of us. Uh just wanted to get that out there. And uh with that said, uh Kristen, I see your hand up. And I kind of jumped up only because what I wanted to say kind of piggybacks on that. I do want to recognize um the difference between RM1 and RM2 um and apprehensions about that. So I I want to acknowledge that. Um what I did want to say though is when I um I love visiting these projects because I've been to Polyfield so many times and actually had never been down Pinerest this far. So this was a new journey for me. Um and it's I guess what I should say is when when I see projects like this um I think about like what's around it. I immediately saw Foley Field and then I saw this property and my first thought was wow what a great buffer between the rest of the neighborhood and Foley field. And this is where kind of what Matt's talking about like these individual uses like if we saw this

project say four blocks up I would have a completely different reaction to it. So it's very much like a case by case basis based on land use for me anyway right in that spot. Um I also want to acknowledge um Miss Vickers I think it was the comment about representing Athens and not just UG and I feel that really hard because I I really appreciate that comment. Um that said, um I also live in a dense in town neighborhood and I actually would kind of love to live live next to this development. I think it's really cool and um I would be very proud to live in a single family home next to this development. So I think in that sense while it's clearly reacting to fully field and so is my feelings about this property is um reacting to fully field. I do want to think about does it represent Athens? Um and so yeah, with with that in mind, I do I do like this project. Um, I think the stream and the buffer is also interesting because it does force not like a complete clearing of the lot, but actually retains some green space and and so you still have that added bonus of having the green space plus this denser use that acts as a transition between the rest of the neighborhood and a very intense use of fully field. Thanks. Uh Sarah, um I wanted to kind of point out something between RM1 and RM2 zoning as well. And uh it also relates to I have a question for the fire marshall. Um um so so the the difference um for the benefit of of everyone listening the difference in maximum building height between RM1 and RM2 is your maximum

building height in RM1 zoning is 30 feet and your maximum building height in RM2 is 35 feet. It's five foot difference, but um our fire marshall has um indicated and this is in the staff report um which I'm just going to point out real quickly for anyone who might not have seen it online um if you're ever worried like oh is this doesn't seem like it could possibly be safe with the fire marshall. This doesn't seem like it seems like it'll be a big traffic problem. This seems like you know the storm water will be out of control. Um all there's a staff report for every single application that comes through. Um the fire marshall weighs in, the arborist weighs in, transportation and public works weighs in about storm water grading, drainage and transportation, public transportation, traffic um as well as water availability. Um so uh in the in the staff report, our fire noted that um there's a problem with buildings exceeding 30 feet um in this area, right? if we go over 30 foot, we just have to have an aerial access, which would be a a larger road or even possibly a turnaround. And I think that was what the comment there was saying that we would have to try to provide a turnaround. However, we can, you know, it's right there at the right over 150 foot, maybe 170, 180. were right there at it to where one of the comments was was working with the developers if they were putting a sprinkler system or alarm system we might be able to allow that extra not to have that turnaround but we would have to have a way to get an aerial truck in that area. Okay. And going over to that 35T. Okay. And then my my question just to make sure I'm clear on on how this works as a straight reszone. If this reszone were approved, the the issue of like, okay, how do we get an aerial truck in there? They would have to figure that out with you before they could ever build anything, right? Work with the developers and everything to work Yeah. be able to to figure that

out. Yeah. But until until you had said like, "Okay, this is cool. There's nothing getting built basically, right?" Uh, yeah, we would have to work that out before we could approve the plan. Yeah. Cool. Okay. Thank you so much. I'm sorry. Just to clarify one thing. Yes. Did I understand you right to say that that what the triggering height is? Anything above 30 feet triggers uh what you just said about the aerial truck. That's correct. That's correct. Sarah, were you done or did you have more? Um I one other thing that I I thought of in in response to um comments that were made about Bar Elementary. Um that reminded me of something that is in the missing middle housing span that we got for the county a few years ago. Um big old report. It's online. It's worth reading. Um and part of that report was uh essentially giving us facts and data about like what are younger what I mean what what kind of housing are people looking for? And one of the findings in that report was if you look at millennials, people who are having young families right now, um that age group overwhelmingly has a a high demand for missing middle housing of this type. um something that's walkable um something that's fairly compact um in town close to amenities. Um and so I look at this and I see something that people with children would want to live in that and we have like market research that shows like people with children want are looking for places like this um and and having them seems seems like a good idea. I will also note that I thought that um uh the applicant um had a a pretty a pretty compelling explanation for like

why RM2 instead of RM1. Um especially when the development itself doesn't look much different than RM1. Um and seeing it on the map as well. Um how how it doesn't it doesn't look like something significantly different from the town houses that are already there. Um, but because but by by changing the zoning on this, it allows them to have the the setup that they have here and it's it's right right next to the university. Um, so we're looking at creating a net, you know, for homes um within walking distance of so many jobs. Um, and doing little things like this over and over and over again, this is how we start to fix our traffic problems or prevent traffic problems from being created in the future by making more places to live that are near where people need to go. So, I think it's I think given all that um the concerns um uh concerns were valid. Um the questions were good. Um, and I think that given all that, this is a reason that would make sense for this location. Thank you. I have a question for the applicant. Do you have a range of a price point that you need to hit for these be simple condos? because I'm hearing I mean three bedrooms does make it sound like it would elicit a family much more so than a two-bedroom, but I'm just wondering about how cost-effective this might be because it is a missing middle product and it seems like it would be great for this transition spot and so close to Bar. I used to live around Rutherford. This would be awesome, but I'm just concerned that this would probably be over a million dollars a condo which may

make it a little bit less feasible. So, do you have any broad pricing like ideas of what would make sense? I think in and some of y'all may know this. I would what how much however much the Foley common the units are selling for, I would say is probably a good comp, okay, for for that. You know, it may be a little more if it's newer and has some shared amenities, but I would say that's a a pretty good comp there. Okay. And I don't know what that number is, but we could we could look that up. Mike. Uh, yeah, generally I kind of think this is a pretty good idea. I, uh, you know, I'm in favor of infill development and kind of adding a little bit density here. It's right across the street from the university, so that seems like a good location. And, uh, from my always champion of the stream buffers, I really like that this kind of uh, cleans up the stream buffer a little bit, too. You know, it's going to get some of that encroachment out. I think it's a good a good plan from an environmental point of view and uh yeah any thoughts on it if anyone else has it. Yeah, I see I see Sarah and Kristen again. I just have a quick question for staff. There is this note at the very end about how we I guess we can't have flat roof town homes. I can I can address that. So again, they're not proposing something that is binding. Um, but there is a section of code where if it is subdivided, if these are going to be single family units, which town homes by definition are shared all single family, meaning the land has been split, um, there is a design standard that says no flat roofs for that type of single family construction. If these remain multif family and let's say they're condoed, so not splits on the ground, but ownership lines within the development, that that

prohibition on flat roofs does not apply. Wait, so the flat roofs, multif family, flat roof, okay. Subdivision and single family, flat roof, not okay by code. Do you know why? Um, it was when that section of code was born, there was a a large contingency of folks that were afraid of minimalist kind of architecture. Um, and wanted something they wanted something that was more in character with a neighborhood feel, which pitched roofs. I'm I'm not going to lie. The fact that this is zone multif family and you're telling me that there's a difference between single family and multif family with flat roofs. It's like it's not computing like why would this not be allowed? I understand. Okay. Somebody's aesthetic choice back in the code. So I guess I guess my question is is there a an opportunity for this to be built more or less? I know that I know what we're looking at is not binding. I get that. But I do like the flat look. Not that this is a a design review board by any means, but I I just I just hate that that there might be like some design options taken away because of somebody not liking minimalist design 20 years ago. Yeah. No, there there are there are some ways to work within that code section and have rooftop terraces. If you activate that, it's not a roof, it's a deck. Okay. So if you if you have some portion of that upper story that still has some sort of pitched roof to it, that satisfies the requirement. But as you do that, you're pushing the height further. So you reach a envelope max. But those are things we've had to work through on other projects. It's not impossible. You just have to deal with it. A little more creativity. That's right. Okay. Uh I see Alex. Yeah, I'm gonna

jump right into that. Uh when you have a flat roof, you have a flat wall at the wall at the um road. So it goes completely straight up and makes you do that. If you don't do a flat roof, you'll do like the neighbors did. And that technically might even be a half, like a two and a half uh story. So what it does is it backs it off of you. And design-wise and aesthetically, it's not as as overwhelming uh with a flat roof. Now, what you can't get is this building would not be able to go three stories and a nonflat roof. It's too tall. So, that is that takes it off the books. So, that's why they're doing the flat roof in my opinion. I could ask, but it doesn't matter. Um, so that that's just sort of if if you look at the one right up the road, it's not as overwhelming, but it's just about as tall. Um, minus 5T, I guess, because bar one. Um, another thing that I wanted to cover is, let me find the I don't mind a development like this there. Um, like I think town homes, I think condos like that are are appropriate in that neighborhood down there. Um, I just think it needs to stay R1. Uh, RM1. Um, build what you're what you're zoned for. If you can't make that work, get smarter, make it work. Different math. Do something. Make it better. go two bedrooms or go three bedrooms less units or taller uh ceilings make it better. Um I it's R1 or RM1 all over in that area and I suppose

it was that way for a reason. So I'd like to fall in line with that. build build this project just you just can't increase the number of bedrooms by 50%. I know those couple of numbers don't sound like a big deal but if you got a 50% pay raise that's a big difference that and a 5% pay 50% means a lot. Uh so that's the part of the R2 or I keep leaving out the M the RM2 that bothers me the most on it. the height. As long as fire department's cool with it and they don't go straight up three stories and they they back it off that that top uh with a non-flat roof, that's fine. Um let's see the covered most everything that I had there. Yeah, that's what I have to say. Thanks. Um All right. I I have a few comments. Um I um first of all I guess I I appreciate the staff report and I agree with uh just about everything in it. Um and I appreciate the the both the applicants presentation and and what I heard from the uh the neighbors. Um thank you all for for coming out and sharing your your views. What struck me about this is um kind of contrary to what Alice just said, this this feels like a very small change. Um I was looking over the code of ordinances about whether RM1 and RM2 have any other kinds of differences. You know, bigger or smaller front yard setbacks, bigger or smaller backyard setbacks. They don't. They're all exactly the same. Uh the difference is 30 to 35 feet in height as uh Sarah pointed out and uh and the density of bedrooms and that's it. Um and um given what's there now it I think that the um

what I was struck by and and specifically to to rebut the Alex's point just build this but less in under RM1 you know I understood the applicant to say that given the cash flowing student rentals that are in this block and on these on this particular parcel u that tearing that down to rebuild high quality quality owner occupied homes just doesn't work at RM1. And so what would happen instead? They bought it with a vision to do this kind of thing. They want to live in it. They want to sell it to Mr. Osborne. I hope I got your name right, sir. uh and uh you know sell it to three-bedroom units to people who may you know want to live in five points to be able to walk to all the retail that we all love to walk to there to be able to walk to Barrel Elementary or or UG for jobs or or what have you. Uh and that the tearing down uh existing rental properties to build just a few more bedrooms doesn't pencil out. Nobody's going to do that. So, they would be forced to just sell. It would then continue to be student rentals, but somebody could subdivide the lots. They're big lots. Uh, somebody could subdivide them and build two or three more homes there that would just be student rental homes under the existing zoning. And so, it's not a choice between this but a little smaller, this beautiful project, but slightly smaller. That's not the choice. Um the choice is a hodgepodge of cottages from what I heard the applicant say sitting on the lot and and incidentally um when you build a single family home you can build in a stream buffer right there's a there's a stream there's a a waterway behind the this these properties u we like to try to protect those sorts of buffers and if a future owner or this owner decided well if we got denied all we can do is just build three more little student rental houses

there, couple three bedrooms each, and then we're going to we're going to just cash flow this property. Um, that's not going to be that kind of high quality neighbors that I think that the folks that we heard from tonight and some of y'all's friends and neighbors, that's not that's probably not what y'all want to see. But I'm hearing that economically that's what you're likely to get if this were denied. And so I always think about these sorts of things from a perspective of what's the alternative. Um, and it sounds like it's what's there now plus a couple more cottages as opposed to this, um, more beautiful, you know, uh, neighborly, uh, kind of development. And so, um, the the, as I say, this feels like a fairly small change. It's it's going from my math, I heard Mr. Lane say 13 bedrooms. My math said 14 under RM1. and and uh I maybe uh maybe maybe one of us did it wrong. I thought this is 877 acres which would which would produce 14 bedrooms under so 14 to 21. Uh it's a it's a pretty small increase in density, but the as the applicant said uh you know it enables them to do high quality owner occupied construction as opposed to uh relatively lowquality uh more likely student oriented um rentals which we all know that's East Rutherford is entirely uh you know student rentals at this point. uh um there's nothing wrong with students, but but you know, I hear neighbors talking about their concerns about the neighborhood. And so, I just wanted to flag those those points um for everyone to to think about. Um obviously, a lot of people want to live in Five Points. Uh it's a great neighborhood. I used to live there. Uh it's a lovely neighborhood. Uh and u putting houses near jobs and near retail that's walkable u is very desirable for people

for a lot of reasons. And it helps all of us by reducing traffic because if you can walk to the restaurant or do your work, you don't have to drive there. And um so it makes Athens better to have a little more housing in our established neighborhoods um than to you know uh continue to sprawl outward which is the the other alternative that that Athens u faces. So, um I think I think it's a beautiful development from the renderings. Uh and I appreciate the the applicants presentation. I think uh walkable stuff like this is exactly what we need more of um in Athens. You know, uh so um I'm inclined to uh to support it. And um you know, if I were a neighbor of this property, I you know, sometimes people stand at the podium, they say, "How would you feel if this was going to go in next to you?" And you know, it's an understandable point of view. And I'll tell you the answer to that question is I'd be thrilled if if uh they wanted to build something like this next to me. It seems like a really nice contribution to the neighborhood. So, uh I saw Carrie's hand and then yeah, I think I'd have a lot more concern about this. We're talking about 48 or 50 beds or something like that. you know, we had a and a half twoacre parcel and you know, you're drastically changing the the uh the tone and the feel of the neighborhood. But yeah, I mean, I think this is seems like a pretty reasonable bed. I like the look of it. I like the style of it. I think I think the neighbor the neighborhood will retain its character development. you know, everyone said pretty much everything else I've thought. I just looks good. Um, reinforcing just what you what you had said about East Rutherford, which came up in in some comments tonight and some comments that we got by email um of people just not happy with the

development that's happening on East Rutherford Street, which is all happening by rate. So, we see what's happening under the existing zoning and people don't like it. It doesn't it it it's, you know, student rentals like you see in my neighborhood or any other neighborhood. Um, and my thought from that is why do we expect better things to happen if we don't allow changes? Um, and I had a question for staff and this may or may not be Germaine. Um so the the density the um so 16 beds or 24 beds per acre um versus an RM1 versus RM2 um is does it get counted the same way when when it is single family housing being built? So like if someone was building these cottages on the neighbor, it would still be single family by bedroom and not regardless of the type of structure, we're still counting bedrooms when you build in an RM zone property. Yeah. Yeah. That it's so it makes it so strange. And uh uh it's it's even stranger when we talk about going from a a single family zoning to an RM zoning because we're we're saying like okay there's five houses versus okay now there's 25 bedrooms. Um and it's a much larger number. Um because the assumption is like oh if there are 24 bedrooms then that's 24 people. Um or how many how many would this be too? This is 21. But yeah, 21 bedrooms. That's going to be 21 people. Um, and but like I live in a house um that has two bedrooms, I guess. I guess, you know, there are two people there, but we only live in one of them, me and my husband, and the other one's an office. Like, I think about all the other uses that people have for bedrooms, and 21

allowable beds per acre is not the same as 21 individual apartments. It's seven It's seven houses. It's it's it's seven homes. Um your your population may vary. Um but I think thinking of it as seven houses on on nearly an acre of land makes it just feel much more reasonable. And like I said, we see what is happening on under by right zoning. If someone wants to do something different, I think I I think that's a good thing because we don't like what's happening by right. Um and uh I was I was going to make a motion, but I just Taylor, I saw you just got in. I don't know if you wanted to ask any questions or say anything. Um, I would like a to make a motion to recommend approval. I'll second. Okay. Motion by Sarah and I heard Jen slightly before Kristen second that motion. Motion to approve. Um, and uh, Stephen, would you please call the role? Motion to approve. Mores, yes. Lee, yes. Yes. Um, yes. Pass. Yes. Sams, no. Yes. Motion passes. Six to one. Thank you to the applicant and uh to the members of the public who came out and uh we appreciate you all sharing your opinions. Um that brings us to item two

under new business on our agenda which is uh zero old Albertton Road and chapter of the room clear. Um Mr. Chair, while that's clearing, is there any way to cool it off in here? I'll I'll look at it. The government is not ready to go on vacation and let us here. Sorry, I always dress like here. Look at I guess that was very And I was like, I guess it cut it down to one because maybe 30 minute presentation. Maybe I can break. We got eight more to do. [Music] All right, back. Okay. Uh we'll begin with the staff report for item two under new business on our agenda. Yes. Good evening everyone. Uh we are looking at the future land use only here for zero Elbertton Road zoning 2025-05-1052. So the planning commission is rather familiar with this process. But just for the good of the uh public when something has a future land use request along with an additional request in this case a reszone we have it for two hearings. So we will be covering the future land use

aspect of this and if it proceeds it will come back for a full review um in two months time. So the future land use request on this parcel is from rural to employment center. The zoning um that they are requesting is to go from agricultural residential to employment industrial. And that concept plan has over two million square feet in four structures for industrial development. So you'll see here we are out Old Elbertton Road. You can see Coyle Middle School there a little south and west of the plan. Um we are out in what colloially we call the the green belt here. We are also on the edge of where the Athena Industrial Park um extends to. So, I'll show you that here in just a minute. But contextwise, we're just a little bit north of Winterville um just down below Coyle Middle School is the intersection of where Morris Grove turns into Spring Valley and Boils turns in or excuse me, Mors Grove turns into Voys and Old Elbertton turns into Spring Valley. So going out this direction is where Voys runs out to Highway 72 and um all the development that's going on around the Kroger development out there. So you'll see here in terms of future land use um you can see the green is the rural, the blue is the school and the government zoning and then the purple is the employment center. So across the street there is the northeastern tip of the Athena Industrial Park which extends all the way down to the uh the loop uh south of Athens Tech and in and around behind Athens Tech there. You'll see here there are some environmental areas on the site. This site is rather large over 200 acres. Um so but we do have a few uh bodies of water and then some streams. Um so there is some environmental areas to contend with here. Here is a shot of the site out here. Um rather agricultural in

nature as are most of the properties around it. The properties across the street that are in the um EI zoning currently and in the employment center future land use are all um vacant until you get down to the ones that do border boils road. So while there is some across the street, it is undeveloped at this time as well. So staff has noted a few things throughout the report about um the area of this portion of the town. The infrastructure uh we are limited in terms of services out here. So sewer does not extend to this sewer does extend to Coyle Middle School. Um however that is uphill from this site. So it would need to get pumped likely up into that to to get sewer. Um one of the reasons why it is rural and still zoned AR is because of that infrastructure. Um, and we've made some choices as a community as to where we will and we will not extend that. Um, this seems to be the end of the line for now, but um, uh, as folks are here for this request. Obviously, those things are subject to change going forward, but in a general sense, I wanted to give everyone a feel. The other thing about this site is is the road. So, this is the one road that goes in front. This is Old Elbertton. You can see here as you go further down to the east and heads out towards Hull. um this road gets even smaller smaller and a little more narrow with some some curves. Um probably not great for truck traffic. And then also adjacent to this is Pitter Road, which is um does have some of the employment center around it, but is residential in nature. Um also small and limited. I believe if if there was truck traffic out here, the best route to get to 72 would be on Boils or to get down into the Athena Industrial Park would be go further down into Spring Valley Road. Um otherwise, you're going into a really rural area or you're going into Winterville, which also does not have a whole lot of infrastructure

and road network to to sustain um truck traffic for a large industrial development. So, um, this site, as I mentioned, rural, adjacent to the middle school, quite low intensity out in this area. A lot of residential uses, a few, um, aging agricultural uses out there, mostly residential, not served by the sewer, just separated from Athena Industrial by the roadway. Um, but that is the the furthest extent of that industrial park. And then that street frontage being rural and two lanes. So, this is for comments only about the future land use. And with that I will conclude the staff report. Thank you Mark. Next we will hear from the applicants. should allow you to Okay, sure. Great. Thank you. Uh, good evening. My name is William Deal, law firm Thompson O'Brien Capital Vudi, Tucson Court Street Corners, Georgia. I'm here representing the uh, applicant FAA Clark who is the property owner and the applicant for this uh, particular project. So what we're looking at tonight is an industrial project uh that is along here old Elbertton Road. I want to kind of orient us. We're looking here at the site and as we draw back this this picture really kind of belies the the the scale of this particular development. This is 233 acres. So this is a very very large parcel uh along among many very large parcels in this

area. Um you'll see here just to kind of orient us to the north there's a large amount of a large wooded area. Um mention that now because we'll come back to that as we as we move through the presentation. Uh but you'll see there's clearcut field there. Uh that area is something like 160 170 acres uh that has already been clearcut. This is an agricultural zoned parcel and that has really kind of that area there has historically been where that agricultural activity has has taken place. Uh but my clients uh recently and and I say recently I mean over the last decade or so have come to realize the agricultural activity just isn't isn't feasible. Uh they had leased this previously to to people that were farming and had reached the point where they were barely covering uh the property tax on on the property. Um, this area here as as we see and as many of you know has grown, right? And and the uses that are surrounding it and the envisioned uh projects here, the public infrastructure and the investments that this county has made to this area has changed dramatically. What that means for my client is that they get the tax bill, right, and and the assessment that comes with that. Uh, but under its current zoning, it means that they aren't allowed to participate in all of that activity. Uh, and so this is the proposal that we have. This site may be familiar to some of you. Uh, this parcel is this parcel and an adjoining parcel. If I can get the pointer to work, mess with it because I'm sure I will. The green button on there. Green button. This parcel here. Oh jeez. Here was part of a uh assemblage that was proposed for uh kind of a a mixed housing project. I think the the number of units there, again, this is a huge scale project, was something around 700 units that was ultimately turned down. And so, as my clients approached me, we looked at something that was a bit more

consistent with the surrounding properties. Um, you're seeing here, this is the surrounding land uses in the air. This is the zoning map. Parcel is right here. And you'll see there's been an expansion of industrial. All of the purple is either uh the EI or the EO zoning districts. Uh so these are industrial areas. We mentioned the Athena industrial park. Uh there's been a lot of other uh similar industrial development that's taken place here. Um and this parcel is here adjoining that. This is the future land use map. Um and and I want to note you you see this this is you know a snapshot that exists today. But I think what's interesting and and I think what's compelling about the request that we're making today is that if we were to look at this over time we would see the expansion of this this industrial area as it crosses over the adjoining road. So uh as it crosses over Voys and then crosses over Pitterard we'd see that the purple of the map expanding and expanding into the proximity of our property coming there up to old Elbertton and in fact we can see here uh even crosses over this is actually Spring Valley but of course Spring Valley turns into Old Elbertton. It's crossing over in parcels. So to the extent that there has been historic zoning districts, historic lines that have been drawn, as the county has increased its infrastructure, as it's increased improvement or improved this area, sought out industrial developers, it has it has moved those lines and we think that our request is consistent with that uh with that with that uh trend toward uh more industrial development. mentioned uh the Athena um industrial work that is there that expands along uh really adjacent to this

parcel. Uh a lot of other really incredible assets to this county. Uh the Investa development, the RWDC development and the uh Nonshi manufacturing development. All of this is in this area. All of these are slated for development in the future. Um just adjacent to this particular parcel. Um, I wanted to show the site plan here. Um, because this is, of course, the conceptual site plan. We're just talking about the comprehensive plan here tonight, but I think it is useful to kind of look at this project. I want to start by by mentioning and my clients can cover their ears when I say this, but this is the project. This is if this happens in 10 years, it is happening at lightning speed. Uh, this is a commitment over decades of time. And so I I do want to stress that although we're showing here this ultimately ends up about two million square feet of industrial, we're talking about two million square feet, realistically two decades. If it happens again in a decade, people are moving lightning speed. Um but to kind of orient this along the uh aerial that we saw, this area right here is that wooded area. And so one of the things that we've been in partic about and intentional about making sure that we're still kind of paying some respect uh to the the existing tree cover and the tree canopy. Uh paying attention to the stream buffers which are along here. Uh and then also again the scale of this project really kind of hides what uh what the site plan is showing. But these buffers here 200 foot uh buffers from the property line. That's something like four times what we would be required by the zoning ordinance. So, you know, as as we put this together, we've really wanted to show that there is the space here for us to accommodate uh and to be um respectful for the the adjoining uses.

And we recognize this is on the periphery and and kind of uh uh on the boundary of where the county has expanded and gone forward uh with other industrial development. So, that's my presentation tonight. um happy to answer questions now or or as I come back um to to answer any concerns that might be from the public. But I thank you for your attention. Thank you, Mr. Deal. Uh is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Payne I live at 145 Walker Drive uh district 9 working out of the office of this Vita Thornton. I'm the engineering representative. Uh we are in support of this project but I would like to ask one question if there are sidewalks because we are in district 9 sidewalks are a scarcity and many projects are going in like the corner of V road across from Kohl's elementary school that project was done and sidewalks are not included and they may not have been required but if there are sidewalks to be placed on this project and not needed we might look at banking that cost and using it as an infield for some of the areas in district 9. Just a thought. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Payne. Bruce, do you um know sidewalks are triggered by proximity to residential um and so the distance um away from from the residential zoning because the AR would not be counted in that regard. It would be RS and RM. Um, it's probably far enough away that we couldn't require the sidewalks. Okay. Okay. Wasn't there a rule that we wasn't there update that that this body saw

like a year or two ago that took away the requirement for sidewalks on the EI? Yes, there there was a text amendment um requested to come through to to reduce um that sidewalk requirement in our industrial parks. Um but yeah, it is proximity to residential that that is the trigger. I think at this location, I could look, but I think at this location, it's it's too far away for us to require it. It wouldn't prohibit them from going in obviously, but I don't think we'd have the opportunity to require it. Okay. And typically industrial developments, uh, we don't see sidewalks installed unless they're required. Is that accurate? Correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition? Please step right up. Hi. Uh, my name is Filbert Wilkins. I live on 100 Lim Edward Road and I try not to bore y'all. Not very good speaker. A little history. an English man. He bought his daughter a farm and built her a new home and lived his moved his daughter Ann and husband and then for too long they broke up. Then the house and the 10 acres were sold leaving approximately probably 200 acres left over. And then they came up with the idea on how to uh to build lowincome homes and

it was stopped by the citizens around my town and they wanted to reszone it for now they want to resone it for any kind of business any kind. They wanted to unload the property for money. In the 70s, this property was set aside for green space. There's a lot of room across the road that is already zone for business. As y'all seen in that purple up there, there's a lot of new and used buildings available in Clark County. The traffic on Old Elton Road is bad enough and we don't need to bring more traffic into. And also, I'd like to ask y'all or tell y'all about the wildlife. They don't have a boat. Their home and their habitat is turned to asphalt and gone forever. This whole deal only goes to put money in the owners and team's pocket. They should could care less about the community and they don't live here. Please commissioners don't take our green pastures away. I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Wilkins. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this? My name is Mary Stone. I live at 125 Woodlick Drive. I did not know this was coming, but I want to say I'm here to say a question to you folks for the people who live on Pitter Road. I grew up at 315 L and I recall that there was

a big to-do not that long ago about a toxic industrial dump that was causing those folks to have cancer. So, I hope that when you're going to build another industrial park on this that that has been considered because it would be terrible have an industrial park, people drinking water or doing whatever in the dirt and then they get sick. That's all. Thanks. Thank you, Miss Stone. Yes, ma'am. Hi, my name's Angela Green and I live at 269 Taylor Lane in the Thomas Farm subdivision off of Spring Valley Road and I oppose both the reclassification of this in the future land um land map and possible reszoning of it um to industrial employment. Um, I also oppose reclassification or reszoning of all of the agricultural land in that is currently in this part of the county. Um, and I'm realistic that someday this land may be used for other purposes. But what I would like to see is a thoughtful process of what the county wants to do with the land in this part of the county. What the uses, the appropriate uses are. Should it be residential? Should it be commercial? Should it be green space? um should it be industrial? And I don't like taking 230 acres of of wild land, farmland, whatever you want to call it, and peace meal just deciding, oh, we're going to make this industrial. Somebody needs to decide where the industrial land ends. What is the border between industrial and residential in this part of the county? Now, I would suggest that the border should be Spring Valley Road. I would say that that on our side of it, the Winterville side, that it should not be industrial and essentially old Elton Road is Spring Valley Road just continued on. So I would say the Winterville side should not be industrial. The other side already is

industrial. That that ship has sailed a long time ago. Um and that said, people live in this area. We pretend like there's nobody there. People have industrial complexes literally in their backyards already. I don't think that's a good thing. I I think that there should be as little of that as possible. And if we develop this land as an industrial purpose, we're creating more of those conflicts between residential and industrial. And also, um, there was something in the report that bothered me. It made reference to Coyle Middle School being sort of like industrial. A school is not sort of like industrial. A school is there because people live in that community and they want a school for their children to attend that's in that community. So that's a sign that this is residential, not industrial in my opinion. And then one thing about Spring Valley Road, that is not a suitable road for commercial um traffic. It is more it would it is narrower. Check the statistics on this. I've done it. It's not the same as some of the other roads in that area. So, the idea of having suggesting that, oh, maybe the better way is to take those the trucking down Spring Valley is not a good idea. So, that's my opinion on this and thank you for the opportunity to speak. Thank you, Miss Green. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this? Hello. Uh, my name is Jose Pagan. I live on 225 Lim Edwards Road just close to this uh project. I want to express my opposition uh to this uh pro reszone uh echoing most of the uh comments that have been heard before by other opponents. Uh this reszone is in my opinion speculative in nature. There's many other tracks that are already been designated uh for

industrial and uh uh that sort of activities already. are vacant. They've been there like for a long time. Um it's not in harmony with all the existing styles or structures are in the area. Uh and uh most of the uh uh planning that has been done around there throughout the ages is for green space and agriculture. Right now they're con building uh infrastructure for the Firefly recreational area. I see around there bicycles running around everybody looking at the nature that the teams there the criterium race bicycle activities go by there all the time the UG bicycle team runs by there too uh as Mr. Earl says wildlife is is paramount in that area too. The scale of this proposal is out of this world compared to whatever is existing there. Uh traffic uh I was looking at report uh 2 million acres I mean 2 million square feet of uh office space usually roughly accounts for anywhere from 10 to thousand people and that sort of thing. I'm not sure you know it varies but I mean roughly want to maximize that I would think. uh all the problems associated to uh uh development that in that way runoff surface pollution light pollution uh practice uh uh that are not necessarily tied to linked to the watershed that it's uh uh expressed there that part of the county drains to the broad river watershed which is one of the most precious rivers that we have in the state right now and and we are a lot of people within that region are fighting to keep it as pristine as it is. Uh sewage infrastructure for example is not there. Bringing that there with open a can of worms you know because I mean we know everything has is tied to money. So if there's an investment of

extending those there for sure it's not going to just serve that it's probably going to open more possibilities for this sort of uh attack on conservation. uh agriculture is alive in that area. There's a lot of farms around there uh forestry tracks and uh the land the land use report that it's been considered right now accounts for that and and recognizes that. Uh so uh it's going to be a major uh cost to the community for that. You know, usually our man is much much less expensive to maintain or support. no services along those lines have to be paid uh like schools, fire trucks, all that's associated to something like this and probably would hit come back hit us as as citizens here. So probably this proposal would create an unfortunate present that meaning that it would uh be difficult to stop similar proposals within the area in the future future impacting the the imp the importance of the green belt. We don't need uh more asphalt. We need the way things are going in our world and in our part on I I see your time has Yeah, that was it. I was just might wrap it up. So, okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak on this application? Hello, I'm Adam Evans. I live at 1143 Charlie Bolton. Um, our property backs up to the south end of this tract. Um, I'll probably just echo what everyone else has said. Um, yeah, I'm against it and I'd like to keep it all green space. Um, you know, I'm worried about the uh ecology of the the area and the particularly the creeks there, springfed creeks. Uh, we're immediately

downstream. Um there are wetlands there, ducks, uh various birds, blue herns, green herand uh native red belly d uh use these creeks as spawning areas. So I'm worried about the storm water runoff and any pollutants that come from this. Um you know, I'm worried about the traffic. Uh the eastern end of this tract, there's a downhill blind curve. It's a narrow road. heavy truck traffic would be not only dangerous there but dangerous for all the kids leaving school and school buses and everything else on the other end of the property. Uh, you know, I'm also concerned about, you know, these giant structures, what kind of lights they have on them. Uh, I just, uh, don't care for any more light pollution. I like to see the stars. I enjoy living out there uh, and having green space. And my vision for for Winterville is one red light. uh organic farms, bicycle paths, green spaces uh with all the native wildlife and and not just some, you know, out of town developed cash grab um that frankly ruins the character of our town that we cherish. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Evans. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak on this? And um I have a petition here. Would y'all Everybody You can vote and see if they want to be accepted or not. Okay. Oh, sure. Yeah. Why don't you uh introduce yourself at the podium and and tell us a little bit about what you what you want to do? Uh, I'm Karen Britain. I am a developer,

builder, and owner of 290 Old Elbertton Road. The far left white line that goes all the way down, that's my driveway. Uh, you saw um we have a spot in there that in 2003, we bought 50 acres. It was landlocked behind this 230 acres. Uh it has five homes in there with the sixth one being a bid. Now uh they range anywhere from 750,000 to 2.5 million in in value each. Um so um in my opinion the EI is extremely vague for for it what what it's saying that can be that can be put on this property. It doesn't specify anything. It just gives you a broad range. And the the plan they are showing here is really not a plan that they have decided to build. It's just a concept that they're trying to see if they can get it passed. Uh I know that you said it was like a 10 20 year projection. In the papers, it says a three-year projection. So, it's not out there in the future. Um, but that's what that's what's in your in your uh papers that he gave to you. Uh, as a builder of 44 years in the Athens area, I have built all over creation. Um, and we go up to Lake Burton down to uh, Lake County. But um the when he first had the 2021 resoning and it had 800 plus homes on it um he he said he wanted to have the h the property for sale for $12 million. Well at that point four years ago 50,000 an acre was a pretty big price point. But in four years my thinking on that

has changed. As a builder now, we pay somewhere between 30 to 50,000 acre per property to build on. Um, I do high-end custom homes. One thing that this property could do that nobody says, but it could do several several 10 acre 10 to 12 acre tracks. The tra the 12 acre track or or larger. I'm just saying a 12 acre track, you could build a personal home and then you could uh take one acre off at any point. You could take one acre off and put a sub subhouse for a aging parent or a child that wants to move back home or something like that. So, uh you can do that twice to a 12 acre track. The traffic study that they've said uh gives us 2,000 more cars per day. Right now, the whole intersection, the whole area over there carries about 3,500 cars per day. So, you're almost doubling that car study per day per on a daily basis. And if you got the school letting out and the uh factory changing over, they're calling the factory schedules and everything. If the factory is sking over at the same time, I really don't know how we'll get out of our driveway with the five houses that are down here. Vance is out there. Yeah, I don't think we'll get out of there. But anyway, um now not all EI is bad. Georgia Power did an amazing job with the portion on the site. Your time has expired. Okay. Oh, sure. Because they're not going to vote tonight. Well, I did want to say one thing about the taxes. They said he was time's expired. Okay. Can I run that off? Sure. I will note procedurally for anyone else here that wanted to speak that um today the procedure for the planning

commission when we hear things that involve a future land use change is first we hear it for comments only and that's where we are tonight. We will not be voting on this item tonight. it will be back before us in two months time for us to consider both the proposed future land use change and the proposed zoning change to EI and at that point we will be voting uh but we're not voting tonight and so I would suggest I'm sure that uh Miss Griffin you have more you'd like to say and perhaps you can come back in two in two months. was just told that if I was representing more than one person that I could speak to 10 minutes. So I was I was actually speeding my three minutes up. But um that that was what I was told today. So I I've got 120. It's a process to eye for that sort of recognition that we uh I believe would know by now if that had been done. Right. And that could be an opportunity in two months. Sis sounds. Yeah. And certainly in in two months we're if you talk to planning staff and if you represent a HOA or some other group of people and and want to apply for the additional time that's afforded to a group representative uh then planning staff can certainly work with you to um that happen at the appropriate time. Okay. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak on this application? All right. Seeing none, we will take it back behind the rail. And I will just um reiterate that this item is here before us today uh for comments only on the uh the uh future land use proposed change. Um we're not here to vote and we're not here to discuss the zoning change either. Uh because as commissioners know but the public may not. Um when a project comes before us that requires not only a reszone but the bigger decision of a change to the future land

use map designation for a parcel um we deal with it more slowly uh in multiple meetings and so the process allows us only to address uh to comment tonight on the proposed future land use which is from rural to employment center. So, uh, public comment having finished, we'll now take it behind the rail for anyone who would like to offer comments on the proposed change of the future land use designation for this parcel. Does the applicant still get a rebuttal on on votes like this or Oh, thank you for bringing uh that back to my attention. Yes, the applicant is entitled. Mr. Deal, uh, if you have anything you'd like to say in response to what you've heard from the public comment. I I do, and I I'll be I'll be very brief. I think there was a lot of discussion about uh what the county's plan is uh and that that this is speculative and I think that we see the county's plan and we can see it through really the time lapse that's associated with expansion of the employment uh future land use area. We have crossed the county has crossed other roads uh has expanded this area has made very intentional investments in its infrastructure in this area to allow for this particular type of development. And what's important is the impact that this ends up happening on in particular and and probably uh uh acutely my client's property. So, we have a very large parcel that has a large frontage on a road that is com that is adjacent to an employment center district, which means that my client's property is uh zoned and and put in a future land use category that is the least intensive and yet is up against a fan future land use category that is the most intensive. And so, my client's property is feeling the rub there the most and they're feeling that in the terms of the available uses. uh the available people that they can

market this as property to the property taxes that are assessed. There was some discussion about the expansion of residential. Frankly, we we tried residential uh and that was denied. I know that there was a discussion about having 10acre tracks. That presents a lot of of very precise problems uh and problems that preclude that development. One is I have to we now have to build a road across 233 acres. That's $3 million of infrastructure investment just to get a road there. We also have an issue uh with the fact that you've got now very large parcels directly adjacent to industrial development and it just limits the um the market that you have for that particular type of development. So, so we're here asking for what our neighbors received. Um and so those are all the questions or all the everything that I have. I'm happy to answer questions. Thank you. Thanks. All right. We will bring the discussion back behind the rail for comment only, not a vote on the future land use only and not zoning. Uh Sarah, um first I have a question for staff. Um do you know when the uh property across the street was became employment? Like how long ago did that happen? Uh this was all discussed as part of the adoption of the 2000 land use map. Okay. Um, so that wasn't like the result of like reszone after reszone after reszone. That was like f big future land use overhaul. We are deciding to expand our our green belt into this this area. And and I will tell you if there were a couple of these pieces the pieces directly across the road toggled back and forth between rural and employment once. And there was a piece further down Spring Valley that toggled back and forth between rural and employment twice. So, um, we've seen

movement on these future land use categories out of employment to rural um over the 25 years since that adoption. Okay. Um, so my my initial thoughts on this, um, uh, I I I don't find I I don't find it necessarily a compelling argument that this should be employment because the property across the street is employ an employment, future land use because like that's what that's what the green belt is like. It is a it is a it is a line. It can change but it's a line around which we said okay outside of this line we are keeping we're keeping uh we're conserving as much as we can um environmentally um that land is what keeps our county at like 60% canopy tree canopy coverage or somethings um is being a very tree friendly city which is of course very important to the environment um any I mean anytime we're talking about doing any infill development and people are like what about the tree on this land they're like well we don't want to sprawl out and the the idea that like well the part the parcel over got this intensive land use so this parcel should be able to get it that's just that's just the definition of sprawl like well the next one but then someone else you know one row up says well the parcel next to us is employment like this the the the green belt is a is a line and just because that line is there is not a reason to that it it it isn't important. That being said, I'm not I'm not saying that, you know, I'm hardline. There's no reason to ever encroach on the green belt. We are doing our big future land

use update. um which would seem to me to be the most appropriate time to decide as a community what is happening with our green belt. Are are we keeping the boundaries or are we expanding them? Um and like from a from a community planning standpoint um I would so we we hear from the economic development department from the county. Um we we usually hear from them whenever we're talking about taking something we're taking away employment land. Um I would be very interested to hear from them at the idea of adding more industrial land. Like what what what is our balance of us is like as far as um as far as these industrial uh employment industrial uh parcels go. Um, that's that's I I think that I would I would want to hear from from them. I would want to hear from the county's uh uh economic development department to know sort of like how does this impact all of our all of our employment um in Athens. Um, I know that again I know that this is um, you know, our first our first run, so we're not hearing from uh, transportation public works. Um, we're not hearing about sewer capacity or anything like that. I look forward to hearing about that because on a parcel of this size with the change this drastic, I feel like that might be pertinent. Um I and I guess like from the applicant what I would be looking to hear about um is like are you offering a condition that you will build public infrastructure? Are you is there

something particular about this lot that would make it unfair um other than the fact that and and but I understand like from when when your when your client bought this land it was agricultural residential on the other side of of employment. Um and so this is not like there's no conditions have changed in the time since your client made that investment. uh if there's any sort of fairness argument for why like this particular parcel more so than any other parcel or you know most other your average parcel on the edge of the green belt this one has to be different. Um I'd be interested in in hearing something more like that. Um the the idea that you know what's just on the edge there isn't really compelling to me. Um, and the, you know, the idea that, well, we can't we can't sell it for a lot more than we bought it isn't really compelling to me. Um, and but I'd be very open to hearing more compelling arguments or uh contributions. Thank you, Sarah. Alex. Okay. Um, I was looking on my map and if y'all remember maybe a year ago, there was a convenience store that wanted to build and I just lost it. Screen Valley Road and yeah on the corner which I remember reviewing it looked pretty harmless until you really start looking at that line and people came out and spoke against crossing that line very strongly very strongly and made it clear to me that that line meant something. So that line just keeps going up and that's where it is. Same road, same thing. And

that's what we're hearing from people that are came and spoke is they oppose it because that's the line. Um on our last application I without being very convincing uh I see the line there in that neighborhood. I'm in that neighborhood a lot and and so I fear for that. I fear for this. Once you cross the line, I don't care what you tell me, it is easier to take another step every single time. So, if that line exists, it needs to be held. And um I'll also add uh and correct me um Bruce if I'm wrong, they can put about 46 houses on that without changing at least the zoning end of anything. And and I know we're not talking about zoning. I'm not jumping into there, but there are other uses. And that doesn't mean two houses per 10 acres. That means two house, you do the math, divide. They can clump 46 houses or they can they can divide as long as they just don't overdo it for the land, I think. Um, so there's there's different ways. In other words, if the terrain doesn't allow you to do two houses per 10 acres, you can just put them together. And uh that also cuts down on infrastructure and makes it a little easier. So, the options are there. I don't know if they work mathematically. I'm not the developer at all looking to buy that plan, but uh I will just say again that that line seemed to mean something with that convenience store. And I'm looking on the map, that line is flat out left side of that line, industrial and commercial, etc. employment side of that line. Uh it is definitely not. Thanks, Alex. Um anyone else? Yeah, I'll just jump in kind of thinking back of what Sarah and Alex said in that I mean we might need more employment land at

some point. Athena I think has maybe a three or five percent vacancy rate. Pretty I mean there's a demand for them but there's not a compelling argument right now that to change this outside of the wholesale change in the future land use maps that we're already looking at. And since we're in the middle of that process I don't see enough of an argument to just arbitrarily change this because as Alex and Sarah said that line's there for a reason. Yeah, I think I agree with everything everyone said. You know, that's for a reason and u we have a future land use process that uh sometimes moves lines. Um and to justify shrinking the green belt, expanding EI. Um outside of that process, I would need to see a a very compelling reason, which I I haven't heard anything satisfy me on that yet. Um I had a question for the applicant actually. Um so I don't know when it was it was a law. We um had our director of the um economic development office county is very intentional in these types of businesses that it wants to attract and it wants to bring here. So I was wondering if you were working with the economic development office in formulating the plan for this. We we have not spoken directly with the economic development office. Um but we certainly will um and and as we come back I can have a report. I can say that we have looked at the market and what this would support. Really our first threshold is they don't really want to talk to us until they know that we can build it. And so with that in mind then like is the plan so then the plan for this change is not necessarily contingent on a specific tenant or a specific purchaser of the property. It's not uh however I will say as we get to the zoning discussion and

I've typically discussed that tonight. uh we are profering conditions. This is only a type one industrial use and and what that means is that we can only have uses that have limited uh truck traffic that's created limited strain on sewer, limited water needs, limited uh uh noise and things of that sort. So this is the very low end of the industrial spectrum. But yes, to answer your question, we we do we do not have a specific tenant that is moving into any Thank you. Um yeah, I guess as far as the future of land use goes, um I think it's interesting. I I do remember when this came up several years ago and I think it was like in the pandemic malades where this with the housing and the this idea of sewer here because at the time it was like oh my god hundreds of houses in this spot and I remember the industrial land owners were very much against that use which made sense right like if you have industrial uses then you have houses across the street well who's going to everybody's complain about the industrial so so I think It's it's interesting that now it's back and be like, "Well, fine. If if the industrial neighbors want an industrial, then why don't we make an industrial?" Um, but the issue of sewer is something that really sticks with me because I I question what would even be able to be developed here. And um I'm also I look at this with Coil Middle School and I um do not like to see an employment change that now encroaches closer to coil. um I'm very sensitive to what what could happen there and potential implications and I don't even want to go there with that. So um that for me is what really gives me pause about this channel. Before we move on, does anybody else have comments they want to give to the

Can I make one clarification just in case um for this to come back? Um the the applicant just stated type one. Um it's a level one in our 911 standards. I know this body doesn't see a whole lot of industrial properties. So if you guys are checking that out to understand what that means before it comes back um search in chapter 911 for level one industrial standard. Thank you Mark. All right. Uh thank you Mr. Deal. Um that our discussion of that item. We will move into new business number three. 231 Collins Industrial and I feel like it's Yeah, when it's just okay change how we consider these things. We're going to have a future lazy discussion. That doesn't that doesn't matter. That's true. Okay, that makes sense. That's because I was offer more sense. Elizabeth, thank you. Planning Commission. So, today I'm here to speak to speak to you about zoning case 2025 051097, which is 231 Collins Industrial. Thank you. Yeah. So the request is to reszone from employment industrial to industrial. Um this involves no change to the future land use map. Um it will remain employment center. There has been

a a non-binding concept plan submitted along with the application. It's showing the reuse of existing building and infrastructure. uh conservation of the forested land and also an expansion of the existing conditions which is it may have thank you sir that was not me so here's the aerial photo photograph uh again so this is the exist 231 Collins industrial in 2014 was built out for Southern Brewing Company. Um it has been vacant for roughly a year and a half, two years, I imagine. Um 15.1 acres. You can see it has two access points. One off uh off Collins Industrial coming off of Highway 29 and the other off Conrad Road or Conrad Drive, excuse me. Um again, see there's a lot of employment industrial. We'll get to the zoning map and I'll show you my please. So again this is employment uh future land use employment. Thank you Mark. So the current zoning EI and the proposed is going to I again you can see this is basically the eastern edge we uh we the western edge we were just speaking about the the eastern edge of the Athena Industrial Park. Now we're coming all the way to the other side. So as things are transitioning to the employment center. This is um the far western edge. got kind of the gateway into the industrial park. Um to the north you will see there are RS8 parcels and RM to the east. Um CG kind of continues as you're going up into the Highway 29 corridor. Again, everything to the south and to the uh east is

here's a current photograph of the existing building again, which the proposed applicant is planning to um to reuse and expand upon. So, here is the concept map that's been u that's been submitted. And again, they are planning to use the existing building. They're showing a 1,800 square foot addition and a 3,000 roughly square foot additional building up at the top of the parcel. Um, at the northern end, which is actually it's oriented a little off, so it would actually be kind of the eastern side, but that would be up against the residential and RM zone parcels. They have shown the area currently that was used for southern brewing as kind of their stage area and and concert area, lawn area that will be uh potentially converted to a gravel storage area, truck circulation, um parking, etc. But again, they're showing reusing the the storm water infrastructure, the utilities. Um, one thing to be noted on this plan that was not shown, um, part of going from EI to I would include a buffer increase. Everything the everything under I is has a required 75 foot buffer in Athensclar County. I has 150 foot. So that will not necessarily impact this, but I will show you what it would potentially impact. Um, you have the stream over here. This will cross into this parcel, the 150. We're right into 150 foot buffer which um but it won't be in any of the structures. There's also uh state waters that were not shown on the on the site plans but they go across the entire front of the parcel here. So that 150 foot mark is going to be roughly right in here. It

will not be in the in the uh the boundaries of the building. Um but it will be a little bit of that gravel area proposed would potentially be within the 150 foot buffer. See, so the applicant is quality uh quality block who's currently at 940 College Avenue and has been there since at least with this name in 195. I believe the the par or the the buildings existing there were built in the late 50s. They've been a you know neighbor to downtown Athens for great part of 50 years. um they are currently in an EI zone parcel so legal non-conforming from our status but again they would be be required to be legally conforming to be considered I because that we would consider it heavy manufacturing and the reason that is the concrete facil concrete fabrication facility is called out as a a use specifically in the definition of heavy manufacturing um staff does feel like it's compatible with the the 2023 three comprehensive plan. Um mainly existing business retention. We've had a good good neighbor being business again in the downtown area for 50 plus years. Um I think it speaks dramatically to them that they can be existing in a heavy manufacturing status within town. There's been no known complaints searching back in the history of the parcel um in you know the past 30 40 years other than a complaint about homeless camp encampment in the front. So, you know, everything they're proposing, everything that's existing was kind of level one from our industrial standards, meeting those all categories of that for noise, vibration, truck traffic, etc. Um, again, it's compatible with the future land use map. No change need is is needed, compatible with the zoning. Again, it was developed in 2014, met all the compliance of 2014. Anything

obviously they're going to be doing that's causing the expansion could kick in. additional standards um which that we caught that we've dealt with as the u as they come through plans review process. So staff does recommend approval, but they do we do recommend with conditions. And I'm going to kind of point out as far as coming up with the conditions mentioned in the staff report that it section 911 begins with uh the purpose of ENI districts is to provide for a variety of uses such as office or manufacturing and aesthetic environment and having minimal impact on surrounding uses. So again we are recognizing that going from EI to I is an increase in intensity. So therefore and there it is um surrounding residential and um multif family parcels as well as other employment parcels but um we kept that in mind in creating these recommended conditions um to preserve the residential area surrounding and also to uh to limit possible use because again with this reszone the applicant is hoping to pursue and purchase this land but if something falls through it would it would be high at that point. So we wanted to put a limitation to to protect the surrounding areas. So therefore we are suggesting that it's the uses be prohibited um several industrial uses as far as and suggest that feed lots or slaughter houses, junkyard, autorecking, transfer stations, all of these in the very heavy industrial categories be uh be prohibited as partition of this freezone if approved. Um, also the the applicant which which provide a 50- foot uh vegetated buffer to the northwestern and northeastern which is basically everything that borders residential and multif family which would bring the project that far away. I should note I think I kind of skipped over it in the slides that the the nearest residential structure at this point is over 700 feet

away as it stands today. So it's not like there's an actual structure bordering this but we consider you know what buffer is a additional they they proposed 20 on the on the PL site plan again the concept conceptual not binding but feel like an additional buffer in addition to limiting the pre u prohibiting several uses and then again the last one would be kind of tied to the protecting the neighboring parcels because as I mentioned they have the access point from Collins Industrial and from uh Conrad drive and therefore limiting vehicular access to Collins Industrial will further protect that uh area that's ordering residential. So that concludes that report. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh next we will hear from the applicant. Good evening. My name is Brian Kimy with Carter Engineering, 1010 Commerce Drive, Bogart, Georgia. Um, I'm going to start just give you a little bit of background and history of the current facility. Um, most people, including me, would not have thought a concrete block facility would be in downtown A, Georgia, but it has been for over 70 years. Um, and to my knowledge, there's been no complaints or no code violations to date from that facility. So the unique thing about this operation is it's totally enclosed in a building. There's no outside work. It's enclosed um there's a facility that they we've got near packet or it was online I think and um another part of the state that is they're modeling this new facility after and they've got decibel readings for what the noise level is. So there's in this facility if you're not familiar with it close by here there's homes around it. Um it's it's very quiet. Um there's very little traffic

coming in and out. Um so from a from a location standpoint, they're kind of landlocked a little bit in space because that that current facility is seven or current location seven acres. They're sitting on about two or using about two acres of that. This new facil this new site is uh 15 acres and um we're intend to use about half almost half of it um if it if it um it goes through. Um the other good part about this is there's an existing building sitting there that is that meets almost exactly what um the client our client needs and so they would expand the building a little bit to to get the equipment in there. It takes they're looking to you know upgrade the equipment. That's one of the reasons for you know things are more more efficient now than they were you know 20 years ago when they when they started operation here in Athens. Um, so Martin, do you mind put up the site plan? So this this actually this location was very um, you know, from a location standpoint and access standpoint was very um, intriguing to to the u the. So good news is we're using the exact same operation that they were currently using. The building stays basically the same with a little bit of addition. Uh, we're using exact same access path around the building. The back is the storage area. So, this this facility, they're making concrete blocks. They'll have some storage bays for um some sand, maybe some um some cement, some gravel. Um that's all that they're they're doing. The water use that they have on in in the facility is just what goes in the product. So, they're taking the water about 2,000 gallons per day and they're using it for the product. There's no waste water leaving the facility other than septic waste. There's no industrial waste leaving the leaving leaving the site. um outside the the ideal would would be to have this as gravel a gravel lot. That way trucks

coming in, they're putting equipment down, scooping it up, using using the in the facility, and it'll be a staging area for finished block products. So, in a nutshell, that's the the beauty of this side is it's mostly meets all their needs and able to expand their operation. Um, plus one thing to mention is you got a a new 7 acre parcel in in downtown Athens that from a value standpoint of future use and future development is extremely valuable uh in this area in this location. Um, so with that, I'll um I'll save my time for any questions and the owner of the uh developer is here if you have questions for him as well. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kempsey. Um, is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this application? Hi, I am Kelly Nail. I live at 450 Calhoun Road, which is one of those homes that backs up to this proposed project um and reszone location. I am here um doing my worst thing in the world, which is public speaking. Terrifies me to death, but I am here because I have lived through this now. This will be the third time. Um it sounds great on paper when everybody sits there and says there's a staging area. It's quiet. This is a very rural space. Um I already had a property that got reszoned to very strong um multifamily, multi-use property. I left there. It has taken me three year, excuse me, three years to find um a home

with with the prices and everything. And I I just recently bought this property. Um it is a very quiet community full of um just mixeduse homes and and there's some multif family down the road. Um where I came from is right next to an industrial um zoning plant. It was very rural. It started rural. It was farmland. And when I listen to all of this, these decisions have major impact in the long term. Um, it's easy to say that it doesn't create creep or potential in this room because maybe it doesn't and and you guys have the ability to isolate these events as one at a time, but they do have bigger broader impacts outside of this room. And when we're talking about reszoning to something that brings in heavy industrial that is operating per their paperwork, um they believe that maybe the peak traffic is going to be Monday through Friday from 8 to 5. They don't mention anything about what happens after 5 and before 8:00 a.m. What happens on the weekends? Um what do the the building may be quiet, but there's vehicles that are moving all of these materials all day long. These are heavy materials. There's trucks, there's air brakes, there's OSHA required beeping sounds to make sure every time they back up a piece of equipment, everybody in the area knows stay out of the way. Um, I have personally witnessed in the community that I just left the lawsuits that come out of these things. Once in a in a project like this is established, it continues and it grows and it turns into lawsuits because people do get into a spot where they're like, "Well, now what have I done with my land? I can't use it for anything else." So, I hear that they're conserving forest area. I

hear that um it is being brought up the quiet standards, but I urge you to very much take into consideration the other noises that can't be dealt with. The infrastructure that all of this heavy truck traffic is going to drive, all of these materials being brought in constantly. Um what are the regulations on when they're going to be operating? What is the true impact of the heavy machinery that is going on in the parking lot and the gravel? um what are the residents of this area going to be impacted by when they go to sell their homes because this is residential. When I sell my home, who wants to back up to something that's noisy and and I saw I mean it's an industrial process. It is not a commercial process. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition? Yes. Can I make one comment about the sidewalk first sidewalk here? No, in the industrial district. We can talk later about Okay. Because we missed the opportunity with the George Power Development to get the sidewalk in in front of Core Industrial. That's why I want that's why I brought Quazison Payne. I live at 145 Walker Drive. I uh I run a construction company as Pay Construction. I know the applicant very well. uh family-owned business. They work very hard. I have been going in their business since I was a little boy with my dad. I was just in that business last Friday returning some concrete that I did found out I couldn't return. I have received the 41 calls in opposition of this development from people on Calhoun Drive, uh Highland Estates, and um Damesville Road that is opposition. Miss Ovita text me a letter at 5:30 and asked me to read it to you. She is also in opposition of this. It

reads, "Hi, Ovita. I'm texting regarding a July the 3rd planning commission to reszone for 231 Collins Industrial. We recently purchased a home that is approximately 300 ft from the proposed property to be changed to heavy industrial. We purchased largely due to the quiet, peaceful nature of the land and the surrounding area. We're in the strongest possib possible way or against a noisy, dusty, unsightly, hightraic, continuous manufacturing plant which would forever change the character of the neighborhood from something peaceful and community oriented to something destructive to property values, local community and ecology and would permanently set a dangerous president for future industrial development. We would very much appreciate you supporting our point of view to the commission. Thank you and please let us know anything we can do to help. Okay. We received other calls and because of that timer I tried to paraphrase their sightly concerns are environmental concerns, air pollution and health concerns, noise pollution, quality of life. Uh residents believe that plant would significantly diminish their quality of life. Uh our residents pointed out that the presence of a concrete plant would likely deter the communities from servicing businesses like cafes uh and establish another communityfriendly uh businesses and traffic increase. I'm paraphrating here because I want to try to get all this in in three minutes. Um Mr. Sam, you pointed out a great point. You said there are boundary lines and I think our future staff and our future land use plan paints a very clear boundary line between industrial and employment industrial with highway 29.

There is no industrial inside of um the loop. It is all east of Highway 29. And to zone this industrial would bring the first industrial on the inside of 29. Uh, also Sarah, you said there are other, we pointed out a tremendous amount of other vacant industrial land that this could go on. We're asking tonight that you also see our needs and put this on some other industrial piece outside of this. Thank you, Mr. P. Is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this application? All right. Uh, next, the applicant is entitled to time for rebuttal. Thank you. Appreciate the comments. Um, just to clarify a couple things. One is there's a connotation for concrete plant. This is not a concrete plant. It's a lot facility. It is really light industrial. I I don't know. I agree. I know why it's called heavy industrial, but it's not really heavy industrial because you're making a product in in in in a building. That's why it's called heavy industrial. The operation uh the comment was brought about time or operation. They're an 8 to5 in in operation 8 to 5, right? We operate on weekends or be operating past five o'clock. Uh there's 10 employees. Um total estimated trips are 40 trips per day. Um, so I I understand their their concerns. This is they're currently operating on an EI location. This is a DI location. Anyone that has been out, if you have if you haven't been out there, I encourage you go out there and tour the facility. It's quiet. It's not dusty. It's not It's not

There's no light pollution. There's no environmental pollution at all. And so, um, although I understand their comments, um, I think some of them are not, um, they're not familiar with the operation. So, anyway, thank you for Thank you, Mr. Kempsey. Uh, that public comment portion and we will bring it back behind the rail once us up. Mike, I'll just make some comments. I think um I hear the concerns in the neighbors and I think that that would you know I think that this tenant in particular, this applicant has more of a light industrial use like they said. So I think that this is probably a good location for them. It's a business that's operated here in town for a long time and you know I think that freeing up that parcel in town where they've operated would be a big plus. And um seeing that they've operated for so long in town and not getting any complaints, that kind of reassures me a little bit more. Um so yeah, so I think generally I think this is a good fit. Thanks. Yeah, Chris. Um yeah, I I hear the concerns from the neighbor. I think it also goes back to the previous um application we talked about where you have this mix of employment and residential. There's going to be some conflict. Um, but I I like the restrictions that are being put on the property for like future whatever might happen. Um, I have been in a homes 20 years and recently found out about this plant and only because someone told me, not because I ever saw it, so I don't even know where it is. So, um, yeah, I I think it's a a actually a really great use for the closed brewery. um along the commercial corridor. Um I would like to um make a motion to approve with the staff conditions.

Second. All right. We have a motion to approve and a from Kristen and a second from Mike. Uh further discussion of the motion. Yeah. Um Sure. Yeah. Um so um it it uh is interesting having um uh Mr. Payne here to speak um as Commissioner Thornton's representative um because it is a more pointed than usual reminder. I don't think we've ever we've ever had a commissioner speak themselves or through a representative um in public comment before. Um, so it's kind of a novel situation that's happening and it's a great reminder that everything that we are doing here is merely advisory. Um, and there are things that that we can recommend uh in the purview of our conversation that um are not necessarily all of the things that the commissioners uh will have the airport have the power to accomplish. Um but um uh this is a sophisticated applicant and I'm sure that they understand the weight of already having a commissioner's opinion. Um the commissioner whose district it is in no less. Um and that sort of cuts your work out for you as far as what um what you might have to do going forward if you want this to be approved by the people that matter which is the commission and uh not us. Um, I have a question for the applicant. Um, um, and it's pretty quick. Are y'all um are y'all down with uh staff's recommendation recommended conditions? Yes. Um, would you be would you also be uh okay with a condition uh that uh about about the conserved canopy? I understand that it's y'all's intention to conserve

uh eight something acres of the canopy. Um I and and uh you know since this is a straight resone is not binding things could happen in the future that cause someone else to come in. Um if there was a condition about conserved canopy on this reszone would that cause problems for y'all? What we've presented is what we feel like is needed on site. We there's already gonna be some conserve county because of the buffers that John mentioned. Yes, there's a lot of buffering on this from the streams that we can't touch any touch. I mean, I know we're showing eight acres, I I I can't imagine them need much more than that. Yeah. Okay, that was all my questions. Um, I would, um, since this is a continuing conversation, um, and one that at least Alex and I seem to be on different sides of, um, throughout the evening, uh, I I want to clarify this idea of is there a line? What does it mean to change? Um, I am I am more I I I the green belt specifically is is a hard line that I feel like is an established idea when we're when we're looking at reszones. I I think that the lines that we're talking about, I think of them as as bolder when we're looking at a future land use change and fainter when we're looking at a reszone without a future land use change. Um, and so that's um that's that going going from a bottling plant to a concrete block facility seems like a much different change to me than going from rural land to a concrete block

facility or something of that nature. uh which is why I would feel I would feel slightly differently about this than I would about the last thing just for clarification. Um this was something that um a member a member of of the neighborhood um brought up and I just wanted to uh follow up on it like what what about my home value? Very reasonable concern. Um, and I think the applicant did mention like the this this exact company at least is already functioning in an air in a in an area where I just looked it up. Um, the most recent house sale that I saw within uh a few acres of this was a a a condo that sold for $78,000 in 2019 and $314,000 in 2024. um the houses adjacent to the the existing qual and we can talk about crazy house price increases some other time. Um the houses um directly adjacent to this um this uh quality concrete block company in its existing location did not have uh any such like recent sales to compare to be like definitively this is the value of the house now. But the estimates are all very strong and going up over time in the same manner as other as the same manner at the houses in my neighborhood. Um, which is like a similar distance from downtown. Um, that's not definitive. Um, I it does and like I said, it does sound like the applicant would have a lot of talking explaining to do. I do think that the conditions um being posted and I would like to propose an additional condition um which is which would be um

that um that 50 50 at least 50% of the parcel remain forested. And if there's a better way to phrase that, I would welcome that. But um I think that with these conditions, we are looking at a a as as sometimes happens with this, you know, with with this kind of process, something in between a plan development and a uh and a street reszone where a change is being made to the zoning. But within these conditions that would prevent the reasonzoning from in the future taking its the the fullest the fullest impact of an industrial zone happening on this site. Um, which is as it says preventing other industrial uses, spreading a 50 foot buff buffer vegetated um only allowing vicular access from Collins Industrial Boulevard um and and as I'm saying preserving the immense amounts of tree cover that are already there. um as far as an employment or industrial parcel goes uh so that that additional buffer can remain um to keep too much change from happening at on this on this line. Um and I guess for for staff, what would be the youall have an idea of the best way to phrase like a proposed condition like that? Um, in looking at the site plan, which again this was sort of a representative site plan. It's it's it's it's really well drawn and it's to scale, but it's not, you know, engineered to become binding. But I will note they have shown limits of disturbance on the plan. Um, maybe we achieve the same goal that the limits of disturbance as indicated on the plan become binding. Okay. What's that? Because when you look at

the actual canopy that's out there today, it's probably 50 I mean it's it's it may be even north of 50%. Yeah. Um with the existing conditions. So if you look toward the limits of disturbance to achieve what you want may hit the mark, but that would be a good thing to ask the applicant and and procedurally obviously what we're talking about either an amendment to yes it's on the floor. It's a substitute motion that you're going to make. You may want to pose a question of the applicant. I I will do that. Um question for the applicant. Um um would do you foresee a problem with maintaining these limits of disturbance? And I know this is bas you just said something. The problem I see is I'm not sure what the storm water will look like when it's designed. Mhm. So let's say it's more and we need more they need more area. Yeah. Then it might have to be in increased a little bit. Yeah. Those I I think that those limits those limits might Yeah. might be a little restrictive, but we don't have a problem with what we're showing now. Yes. Have a problem with that. But as Bruce said, this is not a design. We haven't decided. Absolutely. Um Okay, that answers my question. Thank you. Um, so Sarah, are you uh wanting to either amend the motion or offer a substitute motion? Yes, you have a pending motion. Yep. Um, and who who second it? Kristen and Mike, um, would you could could you amend your motion? I don't have a problem with amending it. I just don't want to get in a situation where the applicant is bound by this not

fully engineered I am hearing hearing the the applicants answer that um I my the amendment that I would propose um or substitute motion I would make would in introduce a fourth condition um that uh at least 50% of the parcel is to remain uh conserved canopy Do we have a clear idea of what the current conserved canopy is? 8.99 acres of tree preservation. What's on the plan? 8.99 8.99 out of 15. Yes. Yeah. So it would it's it's a little flexibility um from the intended thing while maintaining the bulk of what the applicant attends and the benefit of conserving that that much buffer always say like 45 or something in case they need more for the storm water pond. I don't know. I'm not I likeing trees so I just want to make sure we give the applicant the flexibility they need to achieve what they want as well. I can I maybe note too just looking at um oh like the the color concept plan it does note the lot coverage percentage is 27%. So, I know that's not tree canopy in particular, but we're talking about 27% of entire lot that would have like developed something that got correct. That doesn't grass and stuff, I don't think. Right. Whereas like Bruce, help me out. Like if I'm talking about lot coverage, that's like the developed area, right? Like that could include like if they lawn or something like that. I would not count. It just sounds like gravel in buildings and parking lots. I think for the spot

coverage like grass would would understand. So So trying to nail this for Sarah the 50% that you're suggesting is less than what's shown on the plan and but only slightly right. Yes. Yeah. A little over an acre less. Yes. So so that would provide some latitude. Yes. And if it is for 50% canopy, you're not saying conserved, it's just 50 50% canopy. So if they needed to do something, the way that staff would work with that in plans review, if they needed to do some clearing in an area where there are existing trees, there would be compensatory planting somewhere else to get to the 50%. Is that what you're getting? Is that I'm I'm trying to get 50% conserved. Okay. All right. Um I think again this be good question for the applicant. What is shown on this plan is more than 50% shown in the design. So the question really is is that sufficient area and enough for them to do something in the future. Um it sounded like that from from the applicant's previous answers to my question. Um, and of course, as I've said before, um, I I'd like to get the idea across in writing, but at the end of the day, this isn't the end all be all. The mayor commission can work with the conditions, right? They can. Yeah. Um, if need be. And it it sounds, as I said before, the applicant clearly has his work cut out with him uh in in getting the political approval for this. Um I think that if he can if they can um get the neighbors on board uh sounds like that's going to really increase their chances. Um however whatever they need to go through to do that. Uh

and so uh just wanted to say that in in regards to the fact that we do have input from the commission on the record tonight um in a way that's very unusual. Um I I I'm so with this like I would like to make this friendly mission amendment if you if you're willing to do it to this motion to approve not in defiance of what the commissioner said uh but in anticipation hopefully of the applicant continuing to work going forward as this goes to the merit commission understanding that they have other work to do. So, um 50% conserved canopy. Do you guys accept that amendment? Um sure. Yes, I will accept that from the amendment. Sure. Uh Alex, so two quick things. I just want to make sure I heard this amendment right. there's already more than 50% canopy coverage right now as indicated on the in the applications indicated on that. Okay. All right. So, I just wanted to make sure I got that. Uh and the other thing is I just want to make clear as well. This is a different line than the past um application. That was a very clear line. This one's a blurriier line where we are not going from something as as far as industrial versus farm. So, uh I do see this line a little bit different than I see the one in the past. So I just wanted that as a noted explanation toward I have some concerns about it being on

state waters and environmental concerns and I feel that even though there are parameters put in place for that I don't fully understand everything that goes in to concrete block making it does feel like that's dust it can get in the air it can get in the streams and that And um I guess I'll just add a couple of quick things. I um appreciate the the comments from the neighbors. Um and my first reaction on reading this was um oh Quality Concrete Block. That's that place right downtown next to all those town homes and right by all the new apartments that housing authorities building. And I've always kind of wondered, you know, about that place as I drove by it because it does not seem to have, you know, to a passer by. I've walked by there. I've I've driven by there 100 plus times. Um, you know, I've never really perceived any um noise. I haven't been on the site. Pay says he has been on the site, but I I've not been on the site, but I've never noticed any noise um in the vicinity of the premises. I've never noticed any dust unlike uh the concrete plant that actually makes concrete that's right over off, you know, by the Canopy Studios and the new mill district off of Barber Street. You know, uh that place can be a little bit dusty. Parked my car over there many a time and and had dust on it. Yeah, I've never noticed anything like that from this facility. So I was initially just struck by it seems like uh concrete block manufacturing is is inside a building. Uh sounds pretty low impact. So I was surprised to learn that it is not that it's classified by our code as heavy industry when when it really seems to be sort of light industry uh in terms of its impact. Uh that's just my own subjective perception. But I think that

that partly influences uh my feelings about whether it ought to be um within 700 ft or is that the number u Bruce to the nearest residential dwelling? It's a rough estimate. Yeah. Okay. From is it 700 feet from the existing building from the property line? From the property line to the nearest dwelling unit. It's closer than that. this photo. Uh I heard a member of the audience say he thinks it might be closer to 200 feet, but certainly from the building it's quite a bit farther than it is from the property line. And and so uh it doesn't strike me as uh a a heavy industrial use. I would have concerns about uh you know some of the things that are allowed in industrial which is why I think the staff conditions do a really nice job of kind of balancing the the tradeoffs here that is to say of protecting the neighbors from um problematic industrial uses uh but still um allowing a beneficial use for this site And also I gather freeing up a a fairly large site downtown that surely will will have better uses for it uh more economically uh beneficial for Athens and its residents. Uh and so I I feel like I I certainly understand the concerns. Um, and I I see that there are trade-offs here, but it seems to me that really our code arbitrarily mclassifies this particular use as heavy industry when it's really light industry. And and um so if a food stone is necessary to fix that error uh and permit this light

industrial use in in on this site, that seems like the right answer to me. And I will just close by saying uh what we think doesn't matter because we just make a recommendation to the Mary commission and the applicant is is certainly going to have to um have some meetings and discussion with the um county commissioners who actually make the decision u sometimes uh shockingly in uh contradiction of our recommendations. Um and uh so so that's really where the decision is going to be made. But but if it were up to me, this does seem like an appropriate use for this site and a a benefit to Athens Clark County, partly because it frees up another site that has some significant potential. Does anyone else have any discussion of this motion? All right, I guess we're ready for a vote. Stephen, would you please call the role? Motion. Four conditions. Males, yes. Lee, no. Garren, yes. Mclofflin, yes. Pass, no. Sams, yes. It's me. Lord, it's me. I'm down here. Uh, yes. Thank you everybody. Passes five to two. Okay. Uh thank you to the applicant and to the citizens. Appreciate all the being here. That brings us to the next item on new business section of our agenda which is 355

street and we will begin. report. Actually, do we need to take the five minute break? Got about three hours. I see that I'm never opposed to breaks. Five minutes. Yeah. All right. We will take a a very short break and resume in stand up.

on item four business 355 Onita Street and we'll be Yeah, I have to claim that. All right. So yeah, the next item is for 355 Onita Street, specifically for sweet D900. Um, the request is to amend an existing commercial neighborhood planned development known as Southern Mill. The project does not require a change to the future land use map, so it would remain mixed density residential. The purpose of the request um which includes a binding site plan and binding architectural elevations is to construct 14 residential condos with a total of 32 bedrooms. Um the addition includes 12 residentonly um compact parking spaces below with four levels of residential condos above. Um it also includes a new patio amenity space um next to it. The proposed building addition have a little over 7,000 square feet of footprint and extends slightly beyond the um current uh structure um on site. The request includes an additional waiver as well to increase the maximum allowable office space allowed for a lot. Um, the previous PD amendment had included a request to increase the 10,000 square foot limit in the CN zone to 55,000 square feet. And this request is to increase that um more to 85,000 square feet. So this is the aerial imagery. Um the property, the entire property here consists of a little over 18 acres in

total mixeduse redevelopment called Southern Mill, which was a previously abandoned mill site and has since been redeveloped through numerous amendments um to the planned development over the years. The pros edition um is right over here. This is the westernmost portion of building D. Here there are um four buildings A, B, C, and D. Um currently with a mix of mixed uses, the creature comforts brewery and production facility, boutique hotel, two restaurants, um office spaces, and the commercial spaces. Um and so this this portion here is the last portion of the site that represents the property's former use as industrial mill. So presently as you can see um there's the the footprint remains and the facade walls remain open to the sky without a any flooring or a roof um and the rest of building D consists of renovated office spaces and commercial businesses um and a local restaurant. Sorry, it just skipped one. Um, this shows the current future land use of mixed density residential which would remain as is. Um, and you can see across the railroad tracks to the south um is some main street or business. This is the current zoning of commercial neighborhood plan development which would remain. So this is just amending the existing um that it is

um here's some photos um showing the existing conditions on site. So this is showing that um the suite D900 the very westernmost portion of building D where the addition is proposed. So it would be um parking and then four stories of the residential condos above. Uh this represents that last portion of the um the site from its former industrial mill. And as you can see, it's has some walls, but it's currently has no roof um and flooring. And it's open. And this shows the same um section here from the southern portion. It also shows the change in topography. Um the walls are about the same um overall um elevation, but um with the topography kind of slopes down on this side. So this um the request includes a binding site plan. So this shows the overall development with um this portion here is the changed portion. Zoom in a little bit here showing the proposed addition with parking below the amenity patio area and the to that park underneath here. The request includes some um would include binding architectural elevations as well. The um elevations they attempt to align the historic nature of the the mill and the recently renovated areas. Um brick exteriors, balconies, pergolas um are all proposed as well. Um so the request is compatible with the 2023 comprehensive plan specifically in terms of the preservation and adapted reuse of existing structures um infill and redevelopment. It's also compatible

with future land use map and the zoning map. So staff supports the additional residential density within the project to complement the existing commercial mixed uses that are on site. Stuff also supports buildings that can adapt to multiple uses because this extends their useful lifespan um and the existing mixed uses of the site prevents an opportunity to build a dynamic development with employment opportunities. Uh so therefore staff supports the requested waiver and recommends approval and that concludes the staff. Thank you. Next we'll hear from the app. Good evening. My name is Scott Haynes. Work for WA Engineering at 355 South Anonita Street. It's been a privilege to be part of this project since really the beginning of the redevelopment 2012. Um since that time we've gone through several amendments and also just a second while we get slides. That's not the beautiful house in the world. I'm in favor of this. Says it's opening. I apologize. It could be so much worse. Thanks, Mark. So, it's been a privilege to be part of this development since um really the the first amendments from the original outer hold plan that was done in 2000. We started this project in around 2012 and re reszoning it um in the years following. Um and so it's exciting for me to be here tonight to seek um approval for what is essentially one

of the last pieces of structure to be renovated here. Um, it's also a privilege to work here every day. Our offices are located in that first part of the D building and so I've had a front row seat to many of the changes that have happened. We've watched the success of this project as it's as it's grown and the mill has been essentially reclaimed. Uh, going back kind of the beginning mill was started sometime around the turn of the last century. the sandborn map from 1913 uh shows well what it doesn't show is uh there was site here it's not part of that building at that point flash forward a little bit this is sometime around this was taken around 2017 um this was in between the first and the second zoning amendments you can see the deterioration of the structures there's creature comforts wall had failed at that point rooftops here buildings and our subject right here of forest was just beginning to collapse. Flash forward to really where we are today. And just to be somewhat of a rendering here, this isn't a clear depiction of what this looks like today. I'll get you a picture of that in a second. But this shows you some of the the businesses that now are are part of this development. Rivet House Hotel, Horse Creature Comforts, our office is there in the front of D Puma and Auststeria, both really nice restaurants. Um and then several other really nice local businesses site plan that was just shown and the zoom in of this. Thanks. See we are proposing 14 for sale condos or nice condos um with 12 compact spaces below that. So it's four stories total. First being a parking level, three stories of residential above it. Uh a nice little amenity patio and then just

a little bit of remit parking. There's parking there today. Parking there today. So we're just bit of that speed table here to try and slow traffic as it comes around the turn so we can avoid conflicts entering into the the below ground parking. Here's a picture of what this looked like a couple months ago before the leaf out. You can see it's just really a vacant space that's there today. This remnant the end of D. Here's what was proposed. Uh and so we feel like this is going to fit nicely in with a lot of the other uh reclaimed buildings and what has been done with the other structures, especially those that are also three stories. They're um very comparable overall roof heights between here and the the hotel and the other part of B building which Creature uses. Another artist rendition here of the building and give you a sense of what it might look like in the evening. Finally, this image here shows you a little bit of the courtyard idea. We are asking for a waiver as mentioned um to allow for some flexibility in the future. That would be if the space was to be reinvisioned or perhaps if there was a market change that's unpredictable that we would like to be able to see it be reused as much of the other mills being reused now without having to come back to this board for an additional amendment. I think we're on like amendment seven at this point with this particular property. That said, it is our primary goal to try and bring those 14 residential condos to market. I do want to reiterate that this proposal is just an amendment to the binding plan. uh what's shown here is compatible with the uh existing zoning the underlying zoning which is CN also of course future land use uh the only reason we're having to come here is because we do have a binding plan in place we need to amend that in order for this to move forward um and say again excited about the idea of this project we've been looking at the end of this building for some time wondering what it

was going to be and so we're excited something like this um I hope you all support this and I'd certainly like to answer any questions if you have them thank Thank you, Mr. HS. Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there anyone here to speak in opposition? Good evening. My name is Celeste Josephine and I own a home at 490 Nikuchi Avenue. I can throw a rock and hit all of those businesses. is I'm going to amend part of what I brought to say um after learning some of the details now I have a better idea of what I'm opposing. So um I've been a resident in Athens since 2004. Uh in 2014 I became a homeowner in the Boulevard Historic District, a neighborhood that I chose specifically for its character, its charm, and its community. I am here to voice my strong opposition to this proposed amendment for the planned development at 355 Onita Street, which would add these 14 residential condos. This proposal threatens to erode the very qualities that define and distinguish our neighborhood. Over the past two decades, I have watched Athens undergo intense development pressure. And while some growth is inevitable, not all growth is good. Our historic district was established to preserve the integrity of this community, its architecture, its walkability, its scale, and above all, its livability. Proposals like this one directly endanger these goals. The Boulevard neighborhood is already burdened by cutth through traffic from main corridors. Chase Street is a two-way street. It is tiny. People have already learned when they got to go into downtown, if they're taking the 10 loop, that's fine. But when they have to go into downtown, they hit light after light after light. So, what do they do? They cut through our neighborhoods. They endanger our children, our pets, our bicyclists, and our pedestrians. Adding more residential units, especially highdensity condos, will only intensify this pressure. and increased traffic

means more speeding, more in accidents and more stress. This was an issue that tried to get mitigated with speed homes. It has not done the job. Um, moreover, the encroachment of highdensity develops developments in historically protected areas sets a dangerous precedent. Once we allow this kind of creep, it becomes harder to say no the next time. This is a slippery slope towards the very homogenization that we have fought to avoid. Athens just becoming another overdeveloped city rather than a vibrant, unique place in which we call home. So, I urge the planning commission to consider this, not just what this project brings, but what it takes away. I heard somebody else earlier discuss the issues of light pollution. This is a fourstory building that's going to adulterate the lives of the community, and I I appreciate the wanting to use the historical uh factory. My home was built in 1939 in response to the denim factory directly. Um, but let's not forget that the factory was there in operation because there was a community built around it. So, while I appreciate the historical conservation efforts, four stories, these 14 condos, let's also consider the neighborhood and the people that live here and have to live with the ramifications of this development. Thank you. I mean, is there any other member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this proposal? All right, Mr. Haynes, do you have anything you'd like? Um, I respect the comments from from the speaker who's who's obviously has considerable vesting interest in this this development because of her proximity to it, her residents. Um, this building is four stories. It's also sitting on one of the lower parts of the site. So top as far as rooftop roof heights go it's very comparable to the hotel. Can you speak louder please? So the

overall height of this building is is very comparable to the existing hotel rest of building B. Um it's I've not stood on the other side of the tracks but I would say that the perspective from there would probably be difficult to see it given those height comparisons. Um, and as as far as traffic goes, we're not talking about very many units here. In fact, this is placing what was already going to be commercial in that space to begin with. So, we're operating. Um, this is not a big impact. Um, we will obviously be sensitive to the light pollution. We have to, the code requires us to be. Um, you know, this neighbor, this this development is intended to be a good neighbor. I I feel like it has been. Um so with respect to the speaker for I just disagree with comments that she made. Thank you Mr. Haynes. That concludes the public comment portion and we will bring it now back behind the rail. Who wants to start us? Yeah. Um so my my street dead ends into the I guess maybe the western side of this property. Um, I'm just elated every time I see something happen here because I remember when everything was falling down and we didn't think that there was even a picture for it. So, um, I a quick question for the applicant. Um, Scott, when when I was looking at at the original drawings, I I did have and I'm sorry, this is going to get a little nitpicky, but only because it's a historic property and I care. So, um, there there was this sort of carraphead at the top and I thought it was interesting because nothing else on the property has that those sort of details on it, but then in looking at the renderings that you showed in color, it seems much more compatible with the with the Revit house. And so, I guess my question was like, is this like a binding? Like, is there a difference between here and what we saw and is this binding? And

what what are the I think what what you have in front of you is the binding binding plan, right? um void of color, okay, those types of details. So the rendering does give you a little bit more insight into what those materials. So is it more about the final product is going to be like dark up here. So it all kind of blends. That's that's what the objective is to sort of minimize that upper story. So it does look more like the hotel. It's some of the other stories that have and the upper stories of the other buildings. It does help sort of minimize the height impact. That's doesn't read well in the binding plan, but that is neat. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I have a question while you're here. How um do you know about uh how many rooms the hotel has off the top of your head? There's uh 47 rooms and three suites in the hotel. 50 50 uh doors. Okay. Thank you. Keeping perspective while you're up. Sure. Then I'll come that later. Um, so I've just got a curiosity question maybe on your uh statement of request and legal objections letter that you signed. I'm just trying to understand um two sentences. Denial of the request would discriminate unfairly between the appellant and others similar similarly situated and denial of the request would amount to a taking of property in violation of the fifth and 14th amendment. So that went way over my head. The letter that you're reading is a standard letter we include in all of our application that preserves our constitutional rights of challenge. Okay, that is a standard letter you'll see in every single one of our application narratives. Okay. Somehow it just jumped out at me even more. So I was trying to understand the relevancy of that. Yeah. Although although rarely ever acted upon, we include that letter because it is part of what we have to do to preserve our life rights to challenge in the case

that we're turned down for a zoning in tendency threats is a formality. Okay. Maybe it's the 4th of July, but it it really hit me amendments and stuff like that. So that just snagged me at lunch today. So okay, that's all. So I do have something to add later when I I actually want to make a motion for approval. Second. All right. Motion to approve. Preston from Sarah. Um I know Alex has comments. Any discuss any other discussion of the motion? Just raise your hands. Go ahead, Alex. Okay. So uh a comment I I like this. I don't have any objection to this or um even what I'm about to jump in at, but I just couldn't help. Apparently, I had a long boring lunch today. um that um being able to change condos into um commercial office if need be. If the market changes and that's that's what I understood that was what that was is if the market's not good for condominiums then they have the right to shift without coming before us. And I I've got no issue with that. But I wanted to sort of I just couldn't resist uh marking this that that takes units out of the market, which goes against part of what staff says about um short-term rentals. Every unit that is permitted as a short-term rental is unlikely uh to go to a long-term rent. And um collectively short-term removing uh adding things giving the option to a landlord to go short-term rental um

removes more housing out of the market. So does this. So that's where the conflict was just in my mind. I I think it's fine. I'm going I'm voting in favor. It's just I mean where are we going to choose to make that statement? So, based on where y'all typically know, I stand on the short-term rental train. It's those little things that are bugging me. It's not again, not to get on promise, Mr. Chair, but just uh just coming right up. I will go into that, but I was just making a comment on that. Um but otherwise, I mean that I'm co I can address that. That's helpful. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so this project doesn't have residential in it now. So what they're asking for is to add the opportunity for residential where it doesn't presently exist. Having the fallback position for the office, which is more or less in line with what the current plan development is all about, doesn't have a residential component, I see that is remarkably different the short-term rental discussion and analysis that we do. So, this is this is an ask to add opportunity for long-term residential occupancy, which is very much in line with what we're an analyzing the short-term rentals all about, too, is keeping that opportunity for long-term residential occupancy. So, I think this is consistent. I don't feel just fine. Okay. I guess I'll just make a couple of quick comments. Um, I think this uh seems like a great addition to the project. Um I u I think it's a that that whole area over there is a neat area. It's got I think the best restaurant in Athens when we use uh certainly the most interesting one and u and it's got a bunch of office. It's got the hotel. I'd like to see residential over there. I think that would be wonderful. U so you know more

people could walk to the restaurants. some people could walk to work at their offices or, you know, I'd like to see um additional residential down the road at that site. It does seem like the parking lot is um you know, enormous and never more than half full when I'm over there. So, uh maybe there's room in the back to build some more apartments. uh and and uh I think this seems like a very small but excellent improvement to the project by bringing some number of residents there who would be able to walk and not have to drive necessarily everywhere as they go. So I I really like this project. Yeah. Any other further discussion? Sarah? Uh yeah, I just wanted to note really quickly in my support of Kristen's motion that um the the scale of of this is uh exactly the the kind of infill development that we're looking at. Um I supported um the motion to you know I supported approval of the town homes in five points. Um, I support uh this relatively smallcale uh multif family in near near the boulevard um area. Um I think that we often uh you know those are two fairly um high value areas, wealthier areas um especially when you're looking at newer newer entrance into those markets. Um and often when we are looking at reszones or we're looking at future land use map um changes those are going into lower income areas uh disadvantaged areas. Um I think that it's important to

be consistent like we if everywhere has to have some change. Um and if we if we in case if we enase any neighborhood in Amber and say this one nothing can change anywhere near it and and still the population of Athens County is going to grow. Then what we're doing is we're pushing that into other areas. We're pushing that into East Athens. We're pushing that into North Athens. Um, and so I think it's it's particularly important when we have opportunities like this to try to try to see them through and just it looks like a really cool building in line with the design that's already been done. Um, it it's it's the kind of place I would want to live in like 30 years when uh it's more in my price range because I am not in tax bracket to buy a brand new house. But it's a beautiful building. Right. Are we ready to vote? Would you call the roll? Motion to approve. Yes. Lee, yes. Garren, yes. Laughlin, yes. Pass, yes. Sam, yes. Lord, yes. Motion passes unanimous. That brings us to item five, 360 extension with the [Music] juice batteries.

Just over it, I guess. Was that me or you? That was me. It was you. Was it again? Good luck. What's going on there? Yeah. All right. My name's Stephen for the benefit of our audience. The request here is at 360 Hawthorne Extension. It is a straight reszone from commercial general to mixed density residential two RO2. the future land use would remain Main Street business. There is no concept plan associated with this reszone. So, it is a true straight reszone. Uh the purpose though from what we can tell from the application is that it changes the zoning from a zone that is primarily commercial in focus. It does allow residential but not on the ground floor with uh so it would change the zoning from a commercial with a mixeduse potential that residential above the ground floor to a primarily residential focus. Um it does not change the allowable density. CG zoning right now allows 24 beds to the acre. So does RM2. RM2 just doesn't come with the long list of commercial applications that are allowed there or the restriction on what level that the resident res can. Next slide please. This is an aerial of the site. You can see it is largely wooded. To your right is Hawthorne Avenue. This is Hawthorne Extension on the left. Um

this is a fairly prominent uh commercial corridor in Athens um with some development potential as has been identified in our future land use update and some redevelopment potential. It is a in town neighborhood largely which is close to a lot of things. We have residential on the back um several different types of residential and then we have largely commercial over here. So the RM district uh provides that a little bit of a transition between commercial and and the more residential nature of the neighborhood there. I said it would remain Main Street business which is what it's already designated for. And then it would go from commercial general on your left which is what all of that um side of the block is to RM2. But you can already see across the street we have RM2 and just down the street we also have RM2 and if you zoom this out there's a lot more RM2 over here. So it's very much in the neighborhood. This is not a spot zone. It is compatible with the zoning map. What we were given was a survey of the property. That's what's required for the the reszone but they're not required to do a concept plan and have not proposed anything. Perhaps the applicant can elaborate on that, but there's no we're judging this based not on project details, but on the merits of changing the land use designation or the the zoning designation. From a staff standpoint, we do deem this to be compatible with the 223 comprehensive plan. It does allow for infill development. It positions this property for some infill. Uh, and it is also next to a a corridor um and close to nodes that um much like Pinerest give you access to the UG healthcare uh the medical campus, the school that's that's

going in there. It's down the street from Oglethorp Elementary. It's close toarmacies. It's close to the YMCA and Bishop Park. So much like Pinerest, it is putting people close to a lot of important daily destinations, grocery stores among other things. And we think that that's beneficial. It is compatible also with the future land use map and the zoning map does provide a little bit of that transition from the commercial corridor to a residential neighborhood. Being on Hawthorne Extension is probably not viable for large for for the kind of commercial general development that we would expect in that zone. So, we don't think it's necessarily a we think it's actually more viable of property as a residential designation than a commercial designation. And it can also provide residential base to help support uh any kind of redevelopment that comes to Hawthorne Avenue. So, with that, we are recommending approval. And that concludes the staff report. Thank you, Stephen. Next, we'll hear from the applicant. Hi, Brian Hicks. I'm with WNA Engineering. We're at 355 Onita Street. Uh, thank you first for your time and consideration. I'd also like to thank Stephen for I'm assuming you wrote the staff report. It's a collective effort. Collective effort. I especially appreciated the portion where you recommended approval. Um, given the length of tonight's meeting so far, I'm going to go ahead and try to keep it short. This property is one of several on Hawthorne Avenue at uh or Hawthorne extension that is zone commercial general which is the most auto inensive commercial zone and you it's much like you'd see on the most on our largest commercial corridors like Atlanta highway broad street or on Hawthorne Avenue itself and it does not belong on a small residential street like Hawthorne Extension. CG is not just compatible with incompatible with the neighborhood is also incompatible with the future land use map. map. The RM2 zoning we're

asking for is compatible with with the future land use map and is also consistent with the existing residential uh zoning in that area and is much as Stephen pointed out it's much what result would come out of a uh development using RM2 is far less intense and would be far better fitting into a neighborhood than what would come out of CG development. Thank you and if you have any questions I'll be right here. Thank you. Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition to this application? All right, that I assume we do not need a rebuttal. All right, we'll bring it back behind the rail. Uh, who wants to start us off? I am angry that this property is commercial general. And I'm sorry, folks. Like, I had to stop the car and back up and drive past everything again to make sure I was seeing this map correctly. And And I I'm so angry. Like, I'm so angry about this. And like And I know why. I know why it's Commercial General. We all know why it's Commercial General. This is a historically black neighborhood. and it was zoned this way to make lives miserable for the people that lived here. And I'm sick of it. And and I I want to first of all I want to make a motion to approve um the request. I also want to ask and if this is a separate motion that's fine. I want to I want to make sure that these mistakes do not exist going forward and I want to I want to like investigate changing all of this commercial general in properties that are houses like these people these are

houses and it's commercial general and I'm I'm so angry about this. So all right is there a second? Second. Okay, we have a motion to approve and a second discussion of the motion. I would just like to say that this is so long overdue and I agree with what Kristen said and living over in that area this needs to happen and commercial general is never happening on that street. Yeah, I totally agree with Kristen as well. It seems obviously the right move for this parcel and also totally bananas that anything on Hawthorne Extension was ever zoned commercial general. Any other discussion of the motion or are we ready to vote? Said it all. Motion to approve. Morales, yes. Lee, yes. Garing, yes. Glofflin, yes. Pass, yes. Sams, yes. Yes. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you everyone. That brings us to item 6 159 Marlin staff report. Mark, is it is it possible that the little uh receiver for the signal needs to be reset? It I'll give it a go. I just always a good tactic, you know, unplug it and plug it back in. Stop touching it. Do that. It does say that there's only

one bar of battery. Yeah, there's brand new battery. I just put them in the Okay, it worked when I was up. not here to talk about it. All right. So, this is a request uh for a reszone um or special use when I'm sick at 159 Marlin. It is uh to have a RM1 property uh be uh become a commercial short-term rental. It is currently a 4bedroom single family home. Uh the proposed occupancy would be 10 individuals. So this is the property right in the center of Marlin Street. Uh over to the west we see the very edge here. This is the urban lofts off of Root Street. Um just out of frame on the eastern side uh is where um the apartment complex the large the lodge at Athens is for the future land use. There is no change to it. Uh the whole area outside of the apartments off or on the east side um is traditional neighborhood. As always, we just give a carrot or little triangle to our special uses. So, uh this is the site plan. Um we actually did find the original site plan from 2007 when this house was originally built. Not really making that far of a stretch of say that was done in crayon. So, thank you to the applicant for doing something that is actually readable. Um this is the front of the house. Um looking from Marlin, one of the things that staff notes is that the street itself is um it's a little narrow compared to what modern standards are, roughly at around 18 feet wide. Um so this is um pretty much right in the

middle of the street from where this photo was taken. So staff recommendation. Um, so we do not find it compatible with the 2023 comprehensive plan as it would most likely remove housing from the market as a short-term rentals viability. Uh, it is also incompatible with the future land use character description. Traditional neighborhood directly states that commercial uses should be close to principal and minor arterial routes uh, that have good access to transit. Marlin Street is a residential road that is off of another residential road. When you look at the map, it does look like North Avenue and MLK Junior Parkway are close. However, being two streets removed um off of the residential road, staff deems that it does not fit that characterization. Um it does not meet all of the special use criteria, but mainly because of that potential impact on the neighborhood and character of removal of those rentable units. Um and but we do find it compatible with zoning that staff recommends denial. Mark, I think there is one more slide. Thank you. So, part of the reason for that denial, so it is contradicting those purpose statements that we've been talking about over the last couple months, specifically um sections E, H, and K and how that impacts that housing stock. Um that quality of life concern and how the RM districts primarily intent at being residential use. Just coming off a discussion about single family homes zoned RM and the reasons for that. This area brings up those same types of questions. Uh an STR is allowed by right in this property already through the home occupation application. All that requires is a permanent resident and showing proof of that residency. It's $20. It's over the counter. Takes about a half an hour to do with us. Special use criteria primarily is met uh when looked at in isolation. Um, however, this cumulative

effect that we've been talking about on commercial short-term rentals on an already stressed market, um, is what our primary concern is with this. And again, staff would recommend denial. And that ends the staff report. Thank you, Max. Next, we will hear from the Good evening, everyone. Name is Adam Kilgo. I live at 3541 Township Valley Court in Marietta. This is a home that we're purchase purchasing for our future residency here. So, I did not understand the rules of this, so I wrote a very short and condensed speech to try to meet a threeminute criteria, but I can elaborate on some of those things. I'm try to keep it short. Um, first of all, I want to thank each and every one of you uh for taking the time to commit to this community and come here this evening. I know it's the 3rd of July. it's late and you guys are are spending all of your time here trying to make sure that the community um is what you want it to be and what we all want it to remain. Uh my name is Adam Kilgo. I'm here to represent my family. My wonderful wife and daughter here have joined us. Um our daughter here is is a student at UG. My wife is an alumni from UG. Uh we have ties to this community. We love it here. Um, we regularly visit our daughter here in Athens and we enjoy this amazing community. This home is for our family use. Uh, but when we aren't using it, we're trying to offset some of our expenses by being able to potentially rent it out maybe for football games or a basketball game or something like that. If we're not using it, primarily since we bought the home, we've been here 75% of our recreational time because it allows us a place to come stay. Um all of you know that there is uh constraints with hotel stays um places for someone to come visit that are reasonably priced for uh for a

family to come and stay. Uh our daughter has an apartment uh off of Broad Street. We've actually crashed her pad uh with air mattresses so that we can come out and stay with her. So, this is like really a step for us to be able to enjoy the the community um and and have ownership in the community. So, I understand and respect the commission's responsibility to preserve affordable housing um and to protect the community's character. Um as a local Georgia resident, I'm not an out of town investor. My family and I are just regular people just like you guys are. I mean, you have more authority in this than I do, but uh we're still regular people. Um we we are invested in this community and want to see it thrive. Um our goal is not to drive people out uh but to share this beautiful area with visitors and supplement uh our income in a sustainable way. Um as a resident property owner, I believe in the ability uh to use the the property responsibly uh within reason to support our financial uh well-being and our future plans. Uh many of us bought homes here with the understanding that we could use them flexibly whether for aging parents, traveling nurses, or possibly weekend guests. Uh we are just local homeowners trying to offset our costs. Uh not big investors. We are not a large corporation trying to drive large profits. Uh we intend on using this home for our future retirement and hopefully for our daughter if she gets accepted to med school, which she's going to be applying for here, uh that she could be living there. uh in a couple of years. Um she's about to start her third year of college here at UG. So that's short and coming. Um our intention is to retire to this wonderful community one day, but in the meantime, we are looking uh to the planning commission for assistance in making our dream come true for future use. Um I asked the commission to consider a balanced approach that one that recognizes the

benefits of that the STR could bring for us when managed responsibly. We're not trying to push anyone out. We're asking to be part of the solution and not seen as part of the problem that STRs have been uh bringing to the community. Um we we intend on screening our guests and forcing quiet hours and requiring at a minimum a twoight stay to distract people from using the property as a party home. Uh we also uh will be employing local residents such as landscapers, cleaners, and and people that can help us keep the the place up. Um, since purchasing the home, we have become friends with our neighbors and enjoy the neighborhood that the house is in. We've come to love our neighbors and the local community and we intend on preserving the nature of that community. We believe that the home per is perfectly located and suited for a short-term rental. Uh, due to its location and surrounding home occupancy, most of the homes in the area are occupied by college students and renters. With all of that being said, we feel like our situation is perfect for the policies that that the planning commission has written for STRs. Um, do you mind if I use this for just a second? Is is it okay if I point? Okay. So, just to give you you guys an idea, it doesn't want to stay on. Oh, there we go. Okay. So, this this is our home. Th this is Larry and and Fay, his wife. This is Miss Mary and Mac. Um uh this is this is also one of our our good neighbors uh Cicero. Uh this is a renter. This is two college students or out of college students that that live in a in a duplex. This house right here next to Cicero is is in disrepair. Uh this house right here is about to fall down. Um, all what I'm trying to say here is is that there are houses that

are being used right around us that are single family homes. But if you look down here, here, here, up here, this house, the next house, and all out of the screen up here are all college students. When we came to look at the house for the very first time, the house is in disrepair right here, which was one of our favorite things about it. There were college students from this house uh that unfortunately said you honk while you drink sign in their front yard. Um were throwing a football back and forth across the street. So it's it's like a quiet street that that not many people are traveling up and down. Um we did bring uh documentation I I submitted it um I think yesterday to to you Stephen uh about photographs of the driveway. One of the concerns in the assessment from uh the planning commission was that the the driveway did not um have the capacity to to hold four cars. It's not really a big deal for us. We don't intend on having um the cars like the driveway packed with with cars, but I did want to take a couple of photos just to ensure that you guys understood that the driveway would in fact take four cars. I brought my my pickup truck so I could have the biggest vehicle possible and I parked my wife's uh car in front of it uh with two feet to walk in between and there were four feet behind her car uh to the street. We don't intend on having people park in the street, but regularly people do park in the street from all of the renters down the road. We want to meet the criteria and regulations y'all are putting in place by keeping people off the street. Um, and we just want to follow the policies, but we just don't want to be looked at like we're going to be a problem because we don't want to be. Um, we're working intently on making the house more beautiful. Um, it it is already great from the outside. We're doing interior improvements to try to

make the kitchen nicer, uh, to make the bathrooms nicer. Um, originally when the house was built, there were four bedrooms upstairs. If you walk up the the the stairs, there are two identical bathrooms in the hallway. There is no on suite for a primary bedroom. Um the house was originally built as a single family home but was set up as a a rental style house. The house was uh was previously owned by a local restaurant owner and he was giving the bedrooms or renting the bedrooms to his employees. Um, our neighbors Cicero and Larry across the street uh have both expressed to me that they are are extremely excited to see my wife and my daughter and I have this house is ours instead of the people that were there. Um, I can't tell you the the stuff that is in the yard. We have pick picked up so many broken bottles and nails and all kinds of trash that was left from the previous renters which we are in still in the process of cleaning up. Um we intend on having the yard redone so that it's nice grass. We we want to uh we want to have nice landscaping for it. We want to make this um something even more beautiful than it already is to to bring light to the community where some of the houses down the road may still be an eyesore. Um I just want to say we're not trying to take houses off the market. I mean, if you guys don't allow us to uh to do this, which is completely up to up to you, um we're still going to own the house. We're still going to keep it because the our intent is to retire here. Um, this is a request, a simple request of the of the commission here um to help us make sure that it's easier for us to meet our future goals of of retirement in the community and becoming

permanent residents of the community. So, with that, thank you guys very much. I appreciate y'all's time and I know it's late, so I'm gonna shut up and get out of here. y'all very much. Thank you, Mr. Kilgo. Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in support of this application? Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak on this application at all? All right, seeing none, we will bring it back behind the rail. And I just have a quick introductory remark. Uh we have the this item and the final item are both uh short-term rental special use application permit applications. Uh and and uh for information I wanted to let both applicants know that uh we have started to see a number of these uh we in the past two meetings have seen multiple in each meeting and have sent them on to the team with recommendations. Um and uh the uh biggest uh thing that y'all need to know is that um we have asked staff to develop a um specialized set of special use permit applications for short-term rental special use permits. just because the existing ones, the special use permit applications that exist for all kinds of special use permits uh don't really fit uh the the specific context. You know, they're a little general um and and they're not well adapted to deciding when it makes sense versus when it doesn't make sense to approve a commercial short-term rental. Uh the essence of the problem is that the only reason to say no to any of these is their effect on the housing market, which is something that happens in the

aggregate. It's not really relevant to a single application. But if a thousand things become short-term rentals, then that has an impact in in housing supply and housing affordability. Uh and so uh we they are in the process of developing that. We expect that those will be back before this body. uh within uh 60 days and and then on to the maring commission assuming we approve something onto the maring commission for uh them to act on. So u we may have a better set of special use permit criteria to apply not that far from now maybe you know uh three months down the road. U and so we're going to just uh invite Mr. Kilgo and and uh the applicant on the other item that comes next. Um if you would like to uh for us to table your application so that it can be considered under the new criteria. That is something that we would be happy to do. If you would prefer that we uh vote on a recommendation today, send it up to the mayor and commission uh for their meeting next month. uh that is also something that we would be happy to do and we're going to leave that to the applicant and so I address that remark to both only because I don't want to repeat myself but uh for present purposes Mr. Kilgo, can I just ask you um to approach the podium and and share any thoughts you have on that? If you'd like to just move to a decision, that's perfectly fine and and we don't mind if you now that you know about the specialized criteria that are in the offing, if you'd like to u just press pause and then come back in. I think it would be from discussions with the planning director. uh it would be uh at the meeting four months from now just to

ensure that there's time for the mayor and commission to have approved the new criteria that we would then be applying and that they would then be applying. Well, I would follow your question up with a question if I may. Fair enough. Um so what what do you believe the impacts uh of that would be if we moved forward with it today versus tableabling it? And the reason that I ask that is because we we are intently working on getting the the house ready within the next couple of months because what could what could pay for our our mortgage for the just about the entire year? What did any did any of you go to University of Texas by any chance? Anybody here? No. Okay. Thank God. Uh we we went to the Texas game last year and one of our friends went and rented a place uh Airbnb in in Austin and they charged the our friends like $18,000 to stay at this place and they had no other choice because there was 10 of them. Um we are not big fans of Texas. Um, and we we would like to stick it back to Texas when they come here this year and help them get them to help us pay our mortgage for 6 months. So, um, if we push it off, that could potentially put us in a position where we we could not have it ready for use for approval for when football season comes. We intend on using it, but that would be also the perfect time for us to offset our our costs for the year because we could literally have two weekends rented and pay for six months of our mortgage. So, what do you think? Okay. So, so the all I can say on that is that the u a delay of four months certainly um prevents uh a permit from being issued for use

during this football season. Yeah. Right. And so if we vote uh and send a recommendation up to the Maring Commission and they vote yes, then I take it you would be, you know, they would vote yes at what what's the date of their meeting? August 5th. This would be the August vote. If if if you forwarded it on tonight, it would be at their August voting session. Okay. U so uh so yeah, intentionally it could be granted um at that point. the risk of if the mayor and commission deny a special use permit application, there's a 12-month moratorium on the same one renewing. And so then you, you know, if they deny it in August, you uh wouldn't be able to apply again until August of next year. Sure. But if the football season is, you know, uh all that matters to you, then then it's not all that matters. It's just the it's just the the the point at which the the the potential for the short-term rental is most valuable. Yeah, understood. That's that's what I meant. If the football season is the most important moving part from an economic perspective for this application, then the delay certainly costs you that and moving forward um may enable you to get a permit in time. Essentially, it's a gamble like yeah, what are the American Commission going to do? Do you want to take your chances there? Do you want to take your chances that with some better criteria that you would have a higher chance of getting approved with them? Can Can I please go ahead? Oh, no. Well, I don't know if if our discussion might help him make his decision, you know, because I definitely have some points to make about the last mayor and commission meeting, which might give some more insights on the subject. So, I don't know if we want to talk about it a little bit more and then let him make his decision after hearing us talk about it. Certainly. Yeah. I mean, there's no reason because you don't have to decide right now. I mean, also give me an opportunity to talk to my wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I definitely have some things to say about certainly don't want to for put you on the spot. So, yeah, we can continue. Look, I'm okay. I'm okay with being put

on the spot. Yeah. Well, how about we discuss it a bit and then let him come back. Ask you the question again. Yes, Stephen. There's also no guarantee that the criteria change. So, yeah. Either way criteria, but we also cannot promise that there's no assurance of that. Absolutely. Right. Uh so, uh yeah, with that we will take it up our among ourselves and if you have any questions or want me to clarify, please. You bet. Call me back. Thank you. All right. Uh who wants to start us off? Hi. Well, you can go ahead. Oh, Alex. Sure. you got I don't mind. I was just going to say that um you know I guess in regards to the what the mayor and commission has done in the past was kind of interesting to me looking at this because we did we have seen quite a we had a few of these at the last meeting that we unanimously voted to approve and send on to the mayor and commission and uh you know from just my viewing of the meetings there seems to be a lot of opposition on the mayor and commission to this kind of special use process is with short-term rentals. Everything that we've passed on has been denied by the mayor and commission, you know, and the vote was 7 to2. And I didn't I personally didn't get the opinion that that was going to change with any of these that we send up. I think the political atmosphere right now is wanting us to kind of reexamine these ordinances. And I think this new criteria that we come up with, you know, it might give a better framework and a better chance for success in the future. I personally don't see there much chance of success of these special use permits at the mayor and commission given what I feel their opinions are at this time, you know. So, that's definitely affected how I view this kind of process

too. I don't think that it's it's really working for the short-term rentals. So, I think that kind of seeing how this plays out and how we review this over the summer would be very beneficial to future applicants in this process. And that's my thought of it. Okay, Alex. Um, this is another one of if not here where I've driven that road. Um, I think yeah, approved that neighborhood, which is the case in neighborhoods like this. If you're going to rent these out short term, you have to keep them up or you'd go out of business. It is a hard business anyway. I've read the numbers. Everybody says, "Oh, I made $40,000 last year." Well, they didn't. They brought in 40,000, but they had to give half of it away. Then they had to do all this and that. Anyway, that's the business end of that. And that's not really our concern. I do want to say and I think it has to be said approximately in 2021 or so when the market was strong for several years, you almost and I mean almost never saw a decrease in the value sale of a house. If it went on the market for 800,000, it sold for that. it or it may have sold for less, but they did not have to decrease it. In one week alone on the local MLS, 57 houses were decreased. The market is a buyer market right now. Most sellers don't know it, but it is. And same goes with the leasing industry. It is. There's more available than people wanting to lease. and the housing market is not just blowing away. Some houses do sell fast. All I'm saying, and

that doesn't necessarily go toward this, but it the the softening up or or the pressure is not there anymore. It's it's just not there anymore, and houses stay on the market longer, whether you're leasing them or not. The other thing is you can get a long-term lease with tenants from hell and the neighbors have to live with them for an entire year, not just a weekend. And then back to the thing, and I'm not even speaking, I won't say the same things about the one coming up behind this one because that to me feels like a different area. But it again, I'm saying most of this for the record because I know how this will probably go, but what we're leaning on and relying on is is not necessarily what is happening in the market on the dayto-day with the people that are in the market dayto day. I'll come back to you, Mike, but I Oh, that's okay. Sorry. Yeah. Um, so I'm currently of the opinion that uh allowing commercial short-term rentals by special use permit in RM1 and RM2 zones was a mistake. Um, didn't realize it at the time, realize it now. I think that this entire process is a mistake. Um, partly because I do not I I do not think it is a good or fair or appropriate process to do all of these one by one and have people like Mr. Kilgo come up and not know which way is this going to go. um and put the mayor commission and before them us in a position of basically being a credibility determination

um of like okay do I think that Mr. Kilgo is telling the truth? I do. Um but then it creates this incentive structure of just like come up here and and lie about what you want to do with your short-term rental, what kind of a person you are. Um, and then it puts it puts everyone in a position of like, oh, do I like this person who's saying this? Do I believe them? Which can have just a lot of unfair knockoff effects. Um, I I think I think it has to be I think it has to be all or nothing um with with the amount of these or if you know I'm excited to see what staff is developing as far as criteria go that will perhaps give us a more fair process of um uh I I live um very close to this street. I live on the other side of North Avenue. um which is also a neighborhood that has a lot of uh Airbnbs. Um I had a lot of bikers in my neighborhood um this past weekend because the combat veteran motorcycle club was in town. Um nothing against them. They're great people um as far as I can tell, but I miss having neighbors, you know what I mean? I miss I missed the tenants who lived across the street from me, who I got to know over the year, who I could introduce myself to. um and the feel of community that that made and I while allowing uh people like uh like this family to come to to use these properties as Airbnbs might allow them to might might lead to an investment or a gentrification, you know, using that term in the in the neutral sense. Um,

it does it does take housing stock stock off the market. To um, Mr. Sam's point, uh, I think I I I don't have access to all the tools that you do, but I watch Zillow every day to see which houses are going down in prices, um, which rental listers are going down in prices. And it's definitely not like it was in 2021 where my the house I bought I I paid 10% over asking and that felt like a steal. Um but just because it is it that we are at an inflection point I that does not necessarily mean that we are okay as far as housing goes. um especially since as we have all been told and know very well the population of Athens County is going to continue to grow year-over-year. Um to say I think that concerns about housing availability um are still very pertinent. Uh I I think that I think that we're we're headed in the right direction now, but we're not there yet. Um, and my and I I I tend to agree with the the uh decision of the Maring Commission that was made at the last meeting. I didn't vote or I didn't vote on those at the planning commission because I wasn't here. Um, but I tend to agree that denial was appropriate. Um, given the the aggregate um, which is not the fault of any one person or family. Um, and I don't like this process of have of of being in a position to make people feel like that. I have several very close friends who uh own Airbnbs or recently owned Airbnbs that sold them because of the new regulations and they're like, I guess I'm part of the problem. But you're not a bad person.

It's just it is just a very very lucrative use of our housing stock for purposes that are not housing. I don't think that's what we need right now. Kristen. So, just a couple quick thoughts I'm going to put out into the void. Um, for anybody who is I don't know my my two cents. Um, after watching the recent mayor commission meeting where they voted on the short-term rentals, I um and I and I would love to buy any of them a coffee and discuss more about the reasonings because I feel like they were a bit all over the map and the final decision was hard for me to follow. like I get the general idea, but it seemed like there were lots of individual decisions that couldn't really be solved necessarily by a rubric like what we're asking for. So, um that's just kind of my hot take. So, I think in in that sense and I completely understand the idea of like I have this property, I would like to rent it soon. I would like to take my chances going to the maring commission and I completely understand that. So then if that is the case, I I have two things. I would suggest um talking to the neighbors and asking them to come and speak on your behalf because it's one thing to get negative feedback from folks, but if you can get neighbors to come in and speak on your behalf, I think that will speak volumes. And secondly, call the commissioner who represents you and your house and and and talk to them and buy them a coffee and and and pick their brains about their reasoning behind it because I think this having these conversations I think there's a lot of variables in the air I feel right now with this and I think we need to be talking about it to try to move past that. Yeah. And I was just gonna circle back

what everybody's saying. You know, I I think that the a lot of it right now is political climate going on and the I think watching the last meeting, I think if the applicants haven't watched the last Marian Commission meeting, it be very informative. There was a ton of, you know, just regular general public comments against granting these types of special use permits for any reason to any applicant in any place. So, I kind of kind of feel like it's unfortunate because I don't see the success as being very likely for the applicants at this point just because of the general climate, the political climate. You know, uh like I said, they the commissioners, they voted seven to two against it and they all kind of had their own reasons. So, I would like to buy the mola coffee, too, and kind of figure out because part of what came out of that meeting was in the text amendment having to do with STRs, you know, they sent it back to us for more discussion and fleshing it out. And uh yeah, so I think that over the next couple months, this is going to be a real hot issue. There's going to be some changes, hopefully some more direction on it because like Sarah said, I think that this is a broken process right now for dealing with these. Not only has it increased our agendas by like double at every meeting, it also it kind of feels like a waste of time because regardless of what we say, if the Maring Commission is against it, then it's not going to be successful. So, we unanimously voted last time to approve it and they still disapprove it. So, I think that there's a disconnect in the process and hopefully that could change later, but if you're denied now, you can't do anything for a year. So, you know, take that consider. Um, couple comments and then and then J, I'll come to you. Um, I just want to echo a couple of things that have been said and then emphasize something else. Um, I I I do suggest to the applicant and if the other applicant is here as well, it's it's great advice to watch

the last mayor and commission meeting or the last two where they voted on these things and discussed these things. uh just for your information to understand uh the the u the climate uh and you the the range of opinions among the uh actual relevant decision makers who vote on more than a recommendation but actually a yes or no. Um secondly I think um whatever district you're in is it is this district nine? Yeah. Yes. Uh so that would be so uh I would I I echo u Kristen's suggestion that um I would get a meeting with her uh you know assuming that we vote a recommendation out and it goes to them but get a meeting uh and um and and uh you know tell her what she told us and and uh if if you get a sense uh from your commissioner that um she is supportive of this then uh that's one thing. If not, that's something very different. Uh because there sometimes there's a tendency for other commissioners to defer to the commissioner for the district that a property is in. Not always, but sometimes. Uh I also agree about bringing neighbors in favor. If you go to the mayor and commission meeting uh with a still funding application, bringing some of your neighbors to speak in support would be um a great idea. Uh, and but the last thing I wanted to mention is regardless of this special use permit application, there's another way for uh someone who owns, you know, and it sounds like you you sort of uh it's not your primary residence, but it is your part-time residence, right? And uh there's a different process that doesn't require a special use permit that I believe Max mentioned in the staff report which is that a home occupancy like if if uh um you said your daughter uh lives

elsewhere in town here on Broad Street, but if next year let's say this was her primary address and she just went in and paid the 20 bucks and and went to the counter and spent 20 minutes filling out the form and got a home occupancy permit. That's as of right. You don't need any permission from any elected officials. U and that is true of everyone in Athens. You're allowed to use your own home as even if you're a renter, you're allowed to use the home that is your primary residence as a short-term rental under our code. It's only commercial short-term rentals, meaning ones that are not a uh primary residence that are required to go through this process that I agree with everyone has been a bit of a disaster because uh it seemed like a good idea for some reason to make it be a special use permit process, but 100% of them have been denied so far or not I mean not quite 100% right but 5050. Have they approved some of them in the last two? They approved two in like Liz Demarco's and somebody else's like in the first couple they came through and since then it's been a blood bath right have been denied there's only been four they've decided two got approved and two got denied well I would say the one was like behind the house that so it was kind of like so it could it could be true it could be it may be that and again you know I have a question for you know this is not a knowing Why did you have us sit here for four hours tonight, the two applicants for this? Why were we not told this? This is not a Q&A. When we get to the next item, we'll be happy to hear any public comment. Would have been nice to not make us sit here for four hours to say, "Oh, maybe you need to wait." We all sat here for four hours, ma'am. U purpose for sitting here. Well, if you don't have a purpose for sitting here, okay, focus on the item at hand. Back to the item at hand.

159 Marlin Street. Uh, does anyone Oh, sorry. J, Jen, I don't you took the point right out of I mean, that is what I was going to say. Home occupancy. The only question I'd have on that is do they need to add her to the deed to make that See, I have, you know, this is an issue too that I think might be a tenant address because I know one of the issues in my neighborhood is about this home occupancy. So, I think this this is a loophole of sorts. You know, might be addressed in the I don't know. You know, I got things to say about this. I do I do have one otherational question for you, uh, Bruce. Um, the, uh, when an applicant comes in for a reason or a special use permit and it gets denied by the mayor and commission, they can't reapply for a year, uh, for a special use permit or a reszone on that property, right? Is there any u reason why, you know, if these applicants were to go to a vote at the Maring Commission and get denied, why they couldn't subsequently within less than a year uh seek a home occupancy permit? There's nothing that permits that. It wouldn't preclude the home occupation permit issuance. Okay. Okay. Good. That option is still available. And they they could withdraw after tonight's meeting if we sent something off, right? They could withdraw after tonight. They could withdraw after agenda setting with the maring commission and if it comes to the point where it's in front of the maring commission for consideration, they can request at that time to withdraw. It's just makes it when it makes it to the point of them having a voting session, they have to vote on that request to withdraw. Yeah. Okay. Even if we move something forward tonight, there's still time to like go back, look at Yes. Yes. Get get some more information, make an informed decision, try to get coffee with your with the commissioner and the district if if that's possible. Oh, sorry. Important point for for the applicant. The offer we made to you that if you'd like a table, we would certainly

entertain that uh is not your only opportunity to avoid a vote. If you were to meet with your commissioner and get the sense that you didn't want to move forward, you can simply unilaterally withdraw at that point your application or proceed to a vote, but then your home occupancy rights still remain live. So, um I think that's enough on that. Is there any other comment on the merits or is does somebody want to make a motion on this pending application for a special use permit? I mean, this is a situation where I I mean, I'd be inclined to to grant um to, you know, acceptance of it. Um especially when someone, you know, they got family living in town. Um they're not completely disassociated from Athens, just trying to doesn't seem like a land grab to me. Um this is the slowest rental season I've seen in since I've been sort of 12 years. So, and again, like you said, doesn't mean that because that situation exists, it's going to be like that in a year, two year, but we're definitely seeing an equaliz like an equalizing of rental rates. They're going down. We're seeing um rentals take a lot longer to uh to to fill bedrooms. So, I I mean I agree to a certain extent with what you said, Sarah, but I do think that uh this is the kind of one I would I would be inclined to say, hey, let's you let these people do what they want to do. This is a neighborhood I've actually managed properties in before. It's a student neighborhood. It's I mean, I don't think it's going to destroy the fabric of the neighborhood. um you know someone who's living there 50 to 75% of the time and then have you know short-term rental in there for for the portion time. So yeah, so my I mean my motion would be to

to um to approve it, but Okay. Uh motion by Carrie to approve. Is there a second? Second. Second by Alex. Uh discussion of the motion. Sarah, I have another question for staff. I'm so sorry. Um if if a if a special use permit for a commercial certain rental is approved, is that property that property carry that special use for the rest of time? Yeah, the approval rides with the property. Okay. So this is so I know and I know I don't it's it's this is not something that can be worked on tonight. Um, but this is also something that frustrates me about this process and about how we're currently thinking about it because right now we're like housing constraints, don't want to take housing off the market, would like to keep more housing available. Um, if if the pendulum did swing uh the other way or far enough in the other way to where we were like, okay, it's uh we've got so much empty housing, some of it has to be used for short-term rentals. Then at that point, under this current process of thinking about this, then we take housing off the market permanently and then it's just gone. If and when the pendulum ever swings back the other way, we're making more or less permanent decisions based on somewhat temporary conditions and it's a it's a it's a it's a system that that is not it's not sustainable. Uh can I point out one thing about the timeline too on that? If if the special use is approved and it's used and then it goes dark for 12 months or more, then the special use is considered to be abandoned. Abandoned and so it would revert back to what the underlying zoning says you can do with the property. I was like, yeah, it would seem to make more sense with these STRs because they are so owner dependent. Like, you know, we hear these great stories about how they're going to treat it right and

they're going to be great owners, but then they sell it to anybody and it's still an ST and it's still an STR. That doesn't make any sense. So, that kind of makes me even more opposed to this whole special use process than I ever was before. That's what I'm trying to explain. Yeah. Goes for if it goes for 12. So, they keep it running forever with different owners to the other. Exactly. It has to lay dormant. So, yeah. So, I really don't like that. But it's what we're working with right now. Yeah. So, I think that's another strike against this. If somebody were to occupy the house for 12 months as a renter, a long-term renter, or if somebody were to buy it and live there for 12 months or more, that special use is abandoned. Yeah. Is that being tracked? Seems crack. Exactly. Because these are required not necessarily by zoning, but by the finance department. Yeah. That has to be renewed because it is a business. So, there is a annual renewal. And so we're aware of if it hasn't been renewed, well then that's that's the tell to that business. This is that is an interesting topic that I'm not sure is relevant to the approval or denial of this. That's true. Special use permit. We have a pending motion. Any discussion should be confined to the approval or denial of this pending motion. Sure. Is there Yeah. Any other discussion of that? Um, I'll just say uh that I I'm probably not going to vote because the chair doesn't vote unless it's a tie to break the tie. Um, but I think that the applicant's presentation was excellent. I really appreciate it and I think that u whatever the trade-offs may be uh that the balancing of all the factors of the special use permits here, I think that the applicant has amply demonstrated that granting a special use permit in this instance u is the right thing to do. And so I would be inclined to support it. Uh but that's probably the

last time my voice will matter on that because I don't vote. Any other discussion? Both. All right. Uh Stephen, would you please call the role? Motion to approve. Yes. Police. Yep. Hearing? No. Nothing personal. Mclofflin, yes. Pass. Yes. Sams, yes. Lord, no. Nothing personal. Motion passes. Five to two. All right. Thank you. Vote. Family. Uh, we good luck to you. Can I can I say one last thing? Just thank thank you all. I appreciate all your time and I appreciate your insights as well. So, thank you. Y'all have a good fourth. Our pleasure. All right, that brings us to our final item for the evening 101 Lake Drive 506. Um, and we will begin with the staff report. But before we begin with I just want to clarify based on something discussed at agenda. Um, is the applicant in attendance tonight? I'm not the applicant. So these are all people opposing. We are all then you don't need to answer. Yeah. Okay. So the applicant is not here. We have members of the public here to speak in opposition. Uh I just wanted to clarify the applicant is not here. So u uh let's hear the staff request. So it's still not working. Yeah. All right. So, this is a special use request in an RM1 to convert a condominium to a commercial short-term rental. The applicant has proposed there be no more than five individuals.

So, this is the location. Um, we have EPS bridge along the south here and then um some of the single family subdivision to the north. Uh if you're not sure about where it is because this is kind of closed in just south to this uh is where the apps Timothy intersection is located. So the development is mixed density residential that would not change and with all of our special uses we give them a nice little triangle. So this is the site plan as a whole. Uh we have the main entrance off the eps here into the non-gated section of the development. We have the unit here off on the southwest side and then where the designated parking would be for the two spaces front of the of the condo. So staff recommendation is we do not find it compatible with the 2023 comprehensive plan as it's removal of housing from the market does not meet special use criteria uh for its potential impact on that neighborhood character with the removal of a rentable or livable unit. Um but it is compatible with the future land use map and the zoning map. I think we have the exact same slide afterwards. Mark, same thing we just said but for the one person that's joining us now on the live stream. Uh does contradict our SDR ordinance purpose statements um about that housing stock desire for quality of life and RM districts being for residential primarily. Uh STR can be allowed here by right by going through the home occupation application. um this STR in isolation does make sense. However, the cumulative impact based off of that criteria is what we're questioning and how that affects the strained housing market of Athens, clar county. And with that, staff recommends denial. Thank you. Next. Is there any member of the public given

that the applicant is not here who wishes to speak in favor of this? Is there any member of the public here wishing to speak in opposition? Yes. Identify yourselves. Condo. All right. I'm Nikki Dillard. I'm Dillard Realy and I live in a condo and I'm the marketing agent of 10 of these communities in Athens since 20 year 2000. I was actually the agent for the Highlands at Woodlake. Um, I personally live in a condo and we had an air and I call it nightly and weekly rental for a football game and it caused so many problems. They took up all of our parking spaces and then up till 3:00 a.m. at night. Okay, there was that situation. Uh, there are three reasons I want to point out. So, that's one. Number two is parking. Number three, when you live when you leave a large house and you move to a condominium, that becomes your little community. And I'm in a community of 10 units. So when we would and none of us would feel comfortable with total strangers piling in every weekend, you lose your sense of um community, your sense of uh security. And then with strangers coming in, it is totally not fair to these condominium communities for anybody to be allowed to do short-term rental in a condominium community. And something I've been hearing, I I've heard all this tonight, so now I've gotten really mad. But you're talking about housing. I mean, I've been in real estate. I've had my license since the 1980s, and we started our company in 1976. Nobody in here. You're talking about money. The person who present, oh, I got

to have money because I want I I'm not here every weekend. Um, but nobody seems to be talking about how do how does your neighbor feel? How does it feel living next to somebody where you've got they're not there, they don't know what's going on, and you've got 10 people coming in. I'm president of several other HOAs. I get calls at night and one was another situation where 12 people filed it uh came into the condo. A nurse came home to her condo that she owned. She couldn't park. She had to park in a dark parking lot. She couldn't get to sleep till 3:00. If you don't live next to the nightly rental situation, you don't know how to vote on this. And if you live next to one and you love it with strangers coming in all the time and taking your parking space, then you may have the right to vote. But this it's very very unfair. And if we start a president with these special use permits, giving somebody the right to to rent their condo out or rent their house out, that's not what was intended here. condominium communities were developed and it it gave people a place to live that wanted to get out of a large house or maybe you're single and you wanted to move. But it's just so unfair what I've been nobody seems to be talking about the community feeling and how you're going to disrupt the community and it's rental agreements and I know this because I've live I've been through it. You'll have one or two people on it, but there are about 10 people that pile in and and these people that want to do these STRs like the one before here as a realtor. I hear this. Oh, anyway, everybody wants to do it and it's not

fair to our neighbor. What was your address? Oh, I live at 420 Wadell Street and that's Daring Place. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And near downtown. Okay. Oh, I'm just gonna No, go ahead. Oh, go ahead. And and I'll just say this, uh, which sometimes we say when there's a a lot of people. Um, it's okay to say ditto. If if you feel like somebody else said everything you want to say, you've seen us do it. It's okay to say she I agree with everything she just said. U, but also if you have different things you want to say, everybody's entitled to three minutes. So, I will leave it to to you uh how to handle your time. Okay. Thank you. My name is Lisa Bardi. Um, and this is talking about 101 Woodlake. This is unit 506. I'm in unit 312. And for me, this full-time commercial rental would undermine our sense of security, our familiarity with our neighbors, ditto to what they said. But also, when this person bought this, they knew specifically there was in the covenant when they purchased the property, you're not allowed to have commercial business. This is not new news to whoever purchased this property. It is their responsibility, just like it was mine when I purchased this property, to read what the rules are regarding what this property is about. And so, I feel like this is just absolutely wrong. They should have known it when they bought it. These units also are less expensive than the rest of Athens area. So, if we we make this a short-term rental, it also takes the, you know, one piece of property that's not so expensive that someone could have an opportunity to purchase or rent, right? Because it's less there than other parts of Athens. So, for me, I'm just completely against it. Thank

you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Christina Citro, 101 Woodlake, unit 409. I am also the president of the HOA. Um I have um oppositions from everybody. I've already submitted those to you. But I also wanted to make a point that since we are such a small community, we know all our neighbors, door keys, keys, everything. What's going to happen to our insurance rates with our pool? What's going to happen to our insurance rates? Are we going to have to raise our HOA fees for all the people that do live there? And these places rent. There is never a vacancy. So it's not a problem of them not being able to rent it. In fact, they get rented out without even I don't even see signs on the windows. These are people by word of mouth. These homes are always rented. It's just too small. We already have a problem with parking. They're not going to park in the right place. There's no on-site manager. Being the president of the HOA, I have to deal with this every day. The trash, parking, the pool hours, all the Who's going to do that? The owners don't live here. Who's going to manage it? So, that's all I have to say, but I really don't want to lose our little community. have lived there for eight years and I love it and we all really get along. Not only our community, but there's four other condo communities behind the gate that we are all involved in. So that's all I have to say. Thank you, Miss. Thanks. I'm Mary Stone. My address is 125 Woodlake Drive, unit one, open 13. And what I want to say that's

different from what everybody else has said is I'm part of the flats. We are behind the gate. the gated community. We have a a natural area that is a buffer between our condo community and the one that wants to do the short-term rental. Problem with that is that is our property and we have to be concerned about people who trespass through that to come across the little bridge and fish in our private lake. Why not? They don't need a fishing license in a private lake. I have this year this year had two groups of young people trek through the through the natural area so that they could come fish. I stopped both of them. The first were two little black boys. They were very well-mannered. I said, "No, the the trail is not there so that you can access the pond. That's not what it's for." The second group were three white boys. I don't know where they came from, but they were very sassy and disrespectful. And they said, "Well, you know, like they had the right to be there." And I said, "No, you're trespassing." And they had no adult supervision. Those kids had to walk past Highlands to get to the lake in Woodlands. So that is a security issue that you can't you can't monitor those children that are wandering through there. We have trouble with it. You know, if somebody is there as a short-term rental, they're not going to know that those children come through there and that could be a a security risk for them as well. I think that that to assume that those of us who live there and we know who live there are responsible for the security of their short-term rental people. That's just not right. We can't be looking out for their short-term rental people

safety. But the other thing that I was concerned about is the people who bought this is their second home. It is not their primary residence. They knew that when they bought it. So, how is that going to affect the potential buyers who want to get a mortgage to purchase a place? And the mortgage company is looking to see how many people are, this is their primary residence. How many people is it a second home for? How many people there as renters? I really have concerns that that's going to affect the potential buyers. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Hello, my name is Alicia Malden and I live at 110 Woodlake Drive, unit 5. And the reason why I'm up here is I just love Woodlake. I fell in love with it 25 years ago and I came back 10 years ago because I wanted one of these places. I fell in love. They're beautiful. I don't know if you've ever been in Wood Lake. It is beautiful. It has a lake. It has wildlife. It has woods. There's I don't think there's another place in in Athens like that. It's beautiful and I'm very protective. I also live right inside the gate next to the Highlands and I'm the president of the HOA. So, I'm like a mama bear. So, this does upsets me because I love it and I've protected. But, I'm also a nurse. I work the night shift. I want my safety. I want to be able to come and go. There's so many nights that I have to be called in at 12:00, 2:00 coming and going. I want to be safe. I also have a dog. I have to walk my dog. I live by myself. I don't have anybody else to help me. So, I'm out there walking. I want to make sure I'm safe because I'm right there by the entrance. But I love Wood Lake. We're close together. My little group, we are so close together. Talking about close together. If you're sick, someone will

come and help you. If you need your dog walked, someone will come and help you. If you need to go to the hospital, the doctor, you need your car repair, let me tell you what. Someone will help you. Right now, I'm watching my neighbor's uh uh condo next door because she's in Washington DC this summer. And the past two days, I've been helping people. I do a lot of gardening around there. I've been helping my neighbor. He he's moving in. He went all the all the stuff out of all the chippings out of the yard. I spent my two days off to go over the next door and clean it up for him. No charge, no nothing. That's how we are. If you want mayonnaise at 10:00 at night, all you have to do is text somebody. And let me tell you what, somebody will text you back. And do you not only want mayonnaise, I'm bringing over mustard and ketchup. Do you need bread? These are the kind of people that are in Wood Lake. So, it really upsets me to have somebody there that's here today, gone tomorrow. You don't care about the trash. You don't care about your noise. You don't care about your dog poop because you can ask them. I will chase you down because you did not pick up your dog poop. And I have signs. They know me. I have a reputation. I want a nice place. I want a nice place to live. I want other people to have a nice place. I want your kids, your dogs, be able to walk, drive, whatever, ride your bike. I want you to have a nice place. I don't want people coming in here that don't care because you're only here for one night. Um, and I just want to thank you very much because I'm out of time. Thank you, ma'am. Thanks. Um, my name is Jane Kant. I live at 118 Malor Point Way. I'm actually further up the road than Highlands. But I'd also like to say there's a lot of retired people in this community. It's not a wild, you know, hey, let's have a football game and let's go crazy. So having people like that in our neighborhood would really I think threaten a lot of people with all the

noise that goes on. I'm a runner, a walker. I also have a dog and I work at a vet school so I go in at night sometimes as well and I do too have a safety concern and we're not sure who these people are going to be, what they're going to do. And with Alicia, we're picking up trash. We're taking care of each other. So to me it's sort of like why does one person get to destroy our neighborhood because it makes them money. What about the rest of us that live there? We live live there for years and this person wants to come in and make money off of us. I don't like that. If they want to be in a neighborhood then they should stay in the neighborhood and not make money off of us. I've been in this neighborhood for 14 years and I want it to stay the way it is. Come visit us. We're a nice group. But please don't rent out just to make money off of us. This is not fair for us. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else wishing to speak in opposition? All right. Um, we will bring it back behind the rail. Uh, Alex, um, actually wanted to speak first on this because it's not my normal spiel on short-term rental. This is a different neighborhood than we've really been talking about in the past. And I could almost say ditto to everything that has been said. I live near there. I live off Timothy. I go by there. I've been in there many times. It is it is not transient. uh the people live there, the residents, that is their neighborhood as opposed to I do think we've kind of hit students hard. Uh often in this town, students are in and out. They can hold their breath for a year and get out of there. Um grown-ups can't. Uh they have to tend to moving is just not as easy, particularly if they

bought it. These are different types of condominiums in my opinion. Um it feels different over there. It is different over there with hearing how this goes. My my issues with again everything has just been the things that using your word the disaster um that this has caused. You just didn't know. And I like I've said I I can smell an iceberg and I just before you see it and that's just what I felt with this whole thing from the very beginning and have not liked it. But I will say I I would be in favor of denial on this one, which is very opposite of the way I normally am. Uh Sarah, I just think it's interesting. I just think it's interesting. I would I would also be uh in support of denial on this one like I was on the last one, which is near where I live. I think that my neighborhood deserves the same things that yours does because the people who live in my neighborhood are just as deserving of community. the ability to build community with both renters and homeowners because I don't think that renters are like a lesser class of people. Just wanted to say that. Mike, I have a similar comment. I think it's uh I think it's clear from the public comment tonight that people don't like living next to short-term rentals. You know, I think like at the mayor and commission meetings, we hear this. I think the bottom line is like people don't want it near them because people don't like them, you know. And I think I'm particularly I'm against the special use process as I've said just as a general, but I'm also particularly against it and granting new ones. You know, I think that there is if there is any place for this special use, it's for granting them to ones that have existed for a long time, have good relations with neighbors. Like I know people that are like, "We have one. Our neighbors love us." Like, great. Have come have them come write a letter. I I might be

more receptive to that, but granting it to new ones, I'm not in favor of pretty much across the board because I think that's getting to the fact of like the mayor commission said that they don't that the concern is the stock of housing and granting it to a new property is increasing that problem. One that already exists is grandfathered in. You're keeping the status quo. You're not increasing the problem. So, I think that that's, you know, tonight and our past meetings and listening to the Marian Commission meetings, it's really helped me kind of solidify my opinion on this. And I think that I'm definitely landing in the camp of like the special use process is not the right way to go for this. It shouldn't continue with the property indefinitely is my main concern. And you know, and it shouldn't we shouldn't until we have a an idea of the the political kind of atmosphere and where we're heading as a town, you know, we shouldn't be granting at least new ones anytime right now because I think it's almost, you know, these applications aren't cheap. It's I think, you know, 8 $900 for one of these applications. So, it's, you know, it's Yeah, I don't think it's a good process right now. Back to that. So, I'm definitely against this one, particularly since the applicant didn't even show up to make their case. That's always kind of a big strike. So, I, you know, we've heard nothing but negative tonight and no positive on this particular one. So, I'm definitely uh in favor of denial on this one and kind of reiterating my general stance on this this process, solidifying a bit more for me. I I just want to say to to Mike's next to last point, um it's uh very unusual that an applicant submits an application and then doesn't show up to explain why it's a good idea. And um to me, that's sufficient reason to deny this particular application. Quite apart

from u the points made by my colleagues and and um by the members of the public um that that spoke. Uh Sarah, I'd like to make a motion to approve to recommend denial. Okay. Motion to recommend denial by Sarah. Second by Mike. Um any one I don't believe anytime it's a one sizefits-all scenario. I would never blanket say should never have any short-term rentals. I think there are re there are situations where it could be. It doesn't have to be a disastrous thing. Um this is a case I've I've been over to Woodlake a bunch. a managed unit over there. I've I've been over there held by itself. It this is a community where it's not needed. Shouldn't be there. Lots of lots again retirees. People live there for long periods of time. It's again it's not like a a transitory neighborhood. I'm talking about like a student like like a Marlem Street where it's there's students. There's one, two, three year rentals things like that. It's different. I just have a question. If there HOAs not permitting any commercial use. Doesn't that supersede anything that we could do? I mean, wouldn't the HOA prevent that that would be outside of our jurisdiction? Um, the HOA could change its rules next year, right? So, and somebody having a permit from the county would not override the HOA. You know, they would be in hot water with their HOA, but it'd be up to the HOA to enforce it. In any event, uh HOA rules are separate from the county's um concerns here. That's a private matter for the HOA to enforce. Um yeah, good point. Yeah, I mean that was really my point. That was that's my reason for denial. I don't think any neighborhood is more or less deserving than any other neighborhood, but the fact that there's

an HOA that has restrictions on commercial uses to me is a non-starter. Um, I did want to address just one thing. Um, there seems to be this like overarching fear of short-term rental users. I'm one of those people. I just went on a trip with my family to like another city and I particularly like to stay in short-term rentals because I enjoy learning about the city by living within it. And when you have kids and you have a kitchen, it's infinitely easier to do your trip. So, I'm just I just wanted to address that underlying issue among all the comments of like safety. Like I run streets. I walk streets with my kids. Like the we're not all football people who come with hordes of people to party over the weekend. So, just wanted to put that up. Yeah. Uh so, we have a motion. with a second. Um, any further comment or are we ready to vote? Stephen, motion to deny. Morales, just to confirm, a yes vote is supporting the denial. Correct. Yes. Then yes. Yes. Yes. Mclofflin. Yes. Pass. Yes. Sams. Yes. Yes. Motion passes. unanimously. All right. And thank you to the members of the public for coming out to share views with us. Um, yes. Proceed to the other business section of our agenda. I may have a dog emergency at home. So I might just I mean just my daughter simply because my wife's out

of town and my dogs have been alone for longer than I agenda. I think I I got over to Kristen and I know thank you that doesn't proceed to I can go on my feet. You need to go right now what you're saying. I do. Yeah. Okay. And it may only take 10 minutes to get through everything else but 10 minutes may make makes a difference. We only have one piece of business left. I think it's actually time for the device to step in. Okay. Um solve that emergency. Got you, man. Go get the dogs. Good night, y'all. Good luck. Have a good fourth. Thanks. All right. Planning director report. Uh well um even before that I think what I would like us to do is is to take up the item of nomination for chair and vice chair. We got to do that. Yeah. Yes. Nominate myself chair. You not nomination for chair. A second. Mike seconding nomination. All right. Well, I'll nominate myself for vice. So, I was going to nominate you. I may do that. So, okay. And I'm not running the meeting. So, you can That's right. You're in charge. You can call You can call the question on the motion. There's a motion on the floor from Sarah, seconded by Mike, nominating Sarah as chair. We can vote on that motion. Okay. All in favor by a show of Can I take five seconds? Okay. Pitch. Yeah, just just a pitch. It took It took like It took like 10 seconds for someone to second it. It took like 10 seconds for someone to second it. So, I'm like, I just kind of jumped in. Uh I understand that this is

something that happens to happen today. Um if a reconsideration and appointing committee is what we think we want to do, totally with it. Been on this body for several years. Uh I know I know the motions fill in the gap pretty well. Um, I would like to be chair, but I'm happy to have more discussion about it later. Um, but this is something that I want to do and I think I'd be good at it. We do chair and vice chair separate votes. You can do it as a slate, but we do have a motion on the floor. That is just that's fair for chair right now. Okay. So then by show of hands, all in favor I guess we need to do roll call. Sorry, I thought that would be easier. All right. All right. When does this take effect? Next meeting. August meeting. All right. So, motion to approve. Please. Um, yes. Eric, yes. Yes. Pass. Sams, I won't take it personally. Vote your consciousness. No. No. Nothing personal. No, nothing personal. That's our new market these days. I think the one nomination for vice chair. Well, we nominate Did you nominate chair? Right. There was nomination. Oh,

there wasn't official yet. Well, second. I guess now we're I'll nominate Chris. Second. There we go. All right, we'll do Yeah. Roll call. All right. Motion to approve. Lee, yes. Hearing, yes. Yes. Pass. Yes. Sams, yes. Yes. Passes unanimously. planning commission chairs report. Oh, come on. Uh, pass. Oh, you're supposed to have one prepared to step up. The vice chair report July next time committee chair. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, we are meeting next Thursday. Correct. Here for that. Um and pardon. Oh yeah, sorry. I was just gonna be it's gonna be exciting. There's gonna be a light show and everything. We get laser tag. All right. We use the laser the one laser pointer. Yep. But um and staff is putting the uh program together right now and we'll be meeting next week going over that. The committee met a couple of weeks ago and to review what the public had sent to us and made a few little adjustments, not really on the map itself. I don't think we changed a thing on the map, right? And uh some wording here and there. Y'all won't even notice it, but we did listen to some things and and uh that's really it. Lots to come next week. Okay. Can I ask is it going to be like staff presenting it? Will there be members of the committee there as well or is it just us and it's just our time

to talk about it? Steering committee is invited. Okay. Um chair will be present. We have certainty that that's happening, right? Okay. Good. But it really is intended for the planning commission to have a chance to solely focus on the nuts and bolts of the future land use map process and then to receive comment to listen to people's comment about it. Um, so there is really two main parts, you know, presentation of the content and and an opportunity to for y'all to kick it around and have question and answer. Um, and then the benefit of that is if we have the public here, and I hope we do, they will have heard that sort of overview with you and then their comments from the podium will be freshly informed um, if they weren't already to give you some feedback. So we can talk this up among our circles. Yes. Um planning director's report. Is it my turn? Okay. Uh I think today was the deadline for items for August. I think we have 18. Well, there's 15 STRs, six zoning items. Okay. So, um, we do want to bring the STR stuff forward and the point of the work session on the 10th is to set you up to have future land use in front of you for the August meeting. Um, we can talk about given that agenda if if there is an appetite when we meet next Thursday to have a separate special called meeting about the future land use for this group before the August meeting. No, no. I wouldn't think we'd have time. Yeah. Special voting maybe. Special voting. Yes. Exactly. So, I'm I'm hearing this for the first time that we have that many items for August.

So, um you mean a special voting session just to talk about old meeting? Oh, so we'd move it to a different meeting. It'd be its own separate meeting. Yes. Be an additional meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next week, August. How's that? Gotcha. in a different room at a different building. No, there's Okay, that's all I got. Okay. Um, and then miscellaneous announcements. I guess I do want to bring up the issue of Haworn extension and these egregious commercial general zonings. I don't want to put more work on you all, but like what would be the process of like bringing that into a much better like more appropriate zoning for that neighborhood? Amend the future land use map. So, okay, have a new future land use map and then we can look at the implementation of the various things that are because that's a corridor. So, Hawthorne is a corridor that's been identified on the map that's proposed from the steering committee. the wording of those corridors. That's a brand new category of future land use, right? So, it has brand new opportunities for correlation to our zoning code. There's not much on the future land use map that is brand new. Very, very little, only about 6%. But if brand new, that's the corridors are one of those things. So, like for example though, the future land use map currently for that neighborhood is multif family. You got the underlying is not supporting commercial. That's right. So if there's no change there, so what's the next step beyond there? But there will be a change future land use and we will be revisiting the zoning that goes with those new future land use categories. And so we will have the opportunity to look at bringing zoning actions through that align with

the future land use map. That's one of the things that is is part of what we're anticipating after the future land use map is to implement the future land use map with reszones. Okay. So, I'm going to put a pin in this until we have the future land use meeting and I'm going to come back when we definitely noted your comments. Yes. Absolutely. Right. That's fair. Can I ask a question? What exactly just about the SGR thing and what exactly at the last mayor and commission, you know, Commissioner Hamby said that he wanted to like send it back to us to talk about this. Was that that was just for the text amendment on the sunset clause, right? The the two things that will be coming back to the planning commission based on Commissioner Hamy's motion is the sunset clause and the relief valve. Those that's it. So that's what he's asked and was passed by the commission or the planning commission to take up. We all have already directed staff do other research short-term rentals. So now we have lots of ideas. We have a list of five topics to address. Two for the county commission, three for y'all. Yeah. And that's what we're going to try to do. And can we I mean could we ever have like a special meeting for that like to talk about because I feel like or you know some sort of I don't know like how many issues we're gonna we seem to I guess what I'm saying we seem to have come across a lot of problems with the current ordinance and is there are we going to change very many different things I don't know are we going to have a larger conversation or are we only going to talk about the specifics of like the sunset and the and you know the relief valve you know, because it seems like we could have some larger I have some I I wasn't around for the first part. So, I definitely have some larger concerns. You know, I think like one of them is this home occupancy thing that I just found out about because of the uh event venue in our neighborhood is apparently now claiming that somebody lives there full-time and has said they're a home occupancy even though, you know, all

they have to do is change somebody's driver's license. So, I would like to see some Sorry, D, but I I was just kind of thinking like I would like to see some rules in place to help weed out some of these bad apples in terms of like occupancy numbers tied to bedrooms, you know, like you can have two people per bedroom plus two. So, for like a fourbedroom, you'd have 10 people, you know. I'd also like to see some some rules. Not just I can go get a driver's license and now it counts as a home occupancy, but like you have to live there, you know, like maybe because for me home occupancy is like I have it in my basement and it's just one bedroom. It's not I have my driver's license there and then nothing changes about the property, you know? So, I mean, like, as these issues come up, you know, maybe we could have like I understand that people want to rent their whole house sometimes. So, maybe it's like, you know, like like five days a month you can rent the whole house, but otherwise, if it's a home occupancy, you can only rent one bedroom, you know, because that seems more in line with like seems to be there's loopholes that people are already figuring out and taking advantage of. And I don't think that just having a driver's license that says you live there is the same as what the spirit of home occupancy is. Let me let me offer this. I I think what staff has realized is that the complete understanding of the ordinance that we have on the books, forget the amendments and the topics coming back isn't completely understood. And so I think an opportunity where we talk about the code as it has been adopted and what does it mean, what does it not mean and how is it enforced and what are the practical realities of the legal framework that we're trying to paint inside the lines on. I think what I'm taking your words and kind of interpreting into other things we've heard is there there's a moment of education that has to take place before we can have a really meaningful discussion about next steps or text

amendments. Y'all need to have a firm grasp on what is law now and and we don't. Just being perfectly fair. It sounds like every time we have one of these come up, there's a revelation and a discussion about the code. So, we got to get past that. So, if we were to have and and and I'm not going to give you a firm answer right now because we need to think about it in the midst of everything else that's going on. Um but to have some sort of opportunity that would have to be a special called meeting because we could have a quorum come and attend of this body. Um to just get educated about the code. I think I think there's value in that because I I I I see your frustration and I see sort of like the the dots being connected and then there's this moment and it it we we need your confidence level higher than that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to be able to make text amendments and do it in a way that you can feel confident about those changes also. But is that is there any way to loop in the commissioners to that? So that that's what I was going to say because I want to find out what each one of them is thinking. Yeah. You know, I would almost like to go like meet with all them individually and buy them a coffee like you said because they have to be educated if they're not educated. But I mean because like it doesn't they're just gonna if they're just gonna They were talking coffee. Yeah. Yeah. If they're just going to deny them, because I don't want us to come up with a solution, then their commission has a completely different That's why I want their buy in. I want their buy in. Let me say this because it's almost midnight in my heart. No, I'm going to talk about this. Can't control for those kinds of outcomes. Yeah. Now, we can we can talk about and we have new leadership coming to town also that I'm not really sure, right? You know, where where that falls. So, there's a some moving parts in the midst of this timeline that we're we're going to have to navigate. Um, have we had joint meetings and joint sessions in the

past? Yes, we have. That would be fun to get were they in the recent past? No, they weren't. Exactly. So, and so I I think there's value in it. Um perhaps there's a way to get us there, but but that's a lot of conversation that I'm going to have to have first before I can give you an answer. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like no matter even if we had a joint session, we came with this amazing plan. The next session they had to counteract any of that. Well, we need to have them on board. I think 100% for anything we decide. Nothing. If we're just going to talk in an educational kind of format, you're not taking a vote and there's nothing concrete to come from that other than hopefully a shared understanding. Well, that'd be a good first meeting. Then we could have like secondary meetings. And I'm almost curious like just watching the meetings. There's so much public input and there's different things and you got the people that own them and the people that don't. Is there any opportunity to have like a citizens advisory thing like we do with storm water or all these other things. It's just like okay we got a group of owners, we got a group of neighbors that hate them. We got us and some other people, you know, kind of like we do with the future land use map. Like this seems if we could get some more community buy in instead of having everybody fighting about it, you know, like come to a consensus. I don't know if that's a possibility. That's just I mean way down the road, but if we could not get if we could have some buy in, maybe we wouldn't get sued about it and we wouldn't have all these different things and you know, at least a little bit. Let's just hand a motion to address that direct. I voted for both of you. Um, so you know Sarah here Alex. Yes.