Police Accountability Board Agendas - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the April meeting of the Police Accountability Board to order. First, we'd like to start off with the approval of the January minutes. Do I have a motion? All in favor?

Abstain I was not at the meeting.

Okay. Well, we we still have enough, though. Next will be discussion with the law enforcement agencies, and we have a crisis and mental health response and partnerships with corporal Wilson and cap. Woodward. Would you all like to come forward?

They're from Frederick County Sheriff's Office.

Okay. Thank

you.

With Mental Health Association, Alex Baker. He's my counterpart. We have currently how CRT works, crisis response team, is we have a police officer, a paramedic, or firefighter riding a car, and we have a representative for the mental health association, whether it's a peer recovery specialist or a clinician. So right now, it operates Monday through Friday from 1PM till 9PM. The program started, I believe, back in 2013 or I'm sorry, 2023, and is currently just Monday through Friday, one to nine based on staffing requirements at this point.

The goal of the program is to address community needs for mental health assessment and linkage to appropriate resources, taking some of the strain away from the on duty patrol units. And we predominantly respond to mental health, cost for service. However, in the downtime, the group will conduct follow ups from previous encounters, mental health related from the previous weeks, and then they also respond to nonemergency and emergency patrol calls.

Anything to add on that? No.

I'll do the next one then. Do have anything?

I have more if you want me to keep going. Okay. Just a little overlay of twenty twenty five stats. So the crisis response team, this is just its own unit. This is not department wide what we responded to for mental health calls.

But the crisis response team responded to 439 calls for service revolve or involving mental health, crisis. The non mental health calls that they responded to was 672. The mental health association conducted 291 assessments. 223 connections to behavioral health services were made. Out of those encounters, we completed a 109 emergency petitions.

There was seven uses of force. Out of those, roughly 1,200 calls for service. And there those use of force aren't all mental health related. Those were majority of those were on non mental health related calls for service, like burglaries and domestics. And then our counterpart with Department of Fire Rescue Services conducted 86 field assessments.

This program is, I think, very specific and very needed in this city. I think that we kind of have an edge where we're a tri responder program. Usually, we'll find just dual responder program, so a social worker or somebody of similar cohort and a police officer. What this program has done specifically for my team with mobile crisis is that we have been able to get so many different types of insight towards really what goes on behind the scenes. It's educated my guys to be able to have those one on one conversations with somebody who may already be involved with the law.

And I think that that kind of broadens people's wellness overall. I mean if you know what's going on precipitism rates like that's kind of the ultimate goal. I don't have the numbers on that but we like to think that it helps. The connection with the community services especially behavioral health services also kind of helps with those bounce back numbers. We see many more new clients versus repeat clients which I think has its pros and its cons but I think it's showing that it's working. Our goal too is long term care. We're a crisis team unfortunately we don't have the privilege of kind of seeing somebody through their whole journey but I think that getting it from all kind of sides it really just looks at the holistic picture versus just one encounter.

Can you tell me before you go on can you tell me how you go from an assessment to the next step? What what is the trigger for those?

CRT operates mainly off of dispatch calls so anybody who calls

I

don't want

you guys to know. The way that I usually do the calls is the officer will go in first and assume safety. He'll then kind of usher the rest of the team in and I talked about this a little bit moving forward but this team has grown and adapted in so many different ways. One of the main ones was having a smaller group of people. I have a group of three individuals and myself so four in total that do this program out of my team of about 18.

So keeping it limited to those people and having Corporal Wilson and his two officers that do this and then a handful of EMTs or medics really helps to build this team dynamic so that not too much verbal cues have to happen. It's very intuitive and I think that that's due to the report that we've built. Once that safety is kind of established the officer will intervene however seem fit like sometimes the officers will have a lot to say will help collaborate with the intervention and other times I will just run my assessment. It'll be it's a pretty standard run of the mill assessment it's put into place through like our board but we just try to figure out next options. Know what are your symptoms? What what is are you safe right now? If you're not how can I help you get there?

And how did we get here?

How did we get here?

I mean the the individuals, you know, we got here by a call or something.

Oh, sure. Okay. Sorry. Didn't understand. Oh, yeah. That is anywhere and everywhere. I honestly we see DV victims we see people just experiencing breakthroughs for the first time we see somebody who maybe is struggling with their mental health for a little like a decent amount of time and maybe is re experiencing the symptoms. The assessment sometimes does go south not if we are consent based programs. Like I can't force tragically I've tried I can't force somebody to sit down and talk to me. And when that happens we do try to kind of hit our creative side.

That's also the beauty of the DBT. We've been able to be like I don't think he wants to not speak to me because he's uncomfortable but there seems to be something wrong and like it might be a detrimental blood sugar or some other type of somatic issue that we haven't seen before. So again hitting it from all sides.

And you get a different perspective standing out and not answer the questions. Yeah. Okay.

And I think one of the unique, things about CRT is once they're dispatched to a call for service, they're not answering the radio for other calls for service. Get to devote or the officers and the team that are there get to devote as much time as needed to that one person. So when you talk about for instance, we've noticed our use of force numbers are less than 1% because they can actually talk to the person longer, get them more or less, get some buy in from the person, identify, okay, do they need to go to the hospital? Do we need to do an emergency petition? Or do they need to go to the walk in clinic?

Or do they need just to touch base with mobile crisis down the road and be connected with some different resources? Once that team is on scene, they're there until they deem it necessary to leave or it's okay to leave.

What gives you the gives you the ability to focus just on what's in front of you, not the radio, you know, how many other callers coming? Okay. I'm sorry. Just No.

That's fine.

Sure I understood that.

I just was your question more when it comes to the assessment? What happens after the assessment?

Well, it was just what what are your triggers? I just wanted to you know, you you gave us some some very good numbers, but when you get down to calls and you get down to events and, you know, you force what I mean, you just force I understand that piece. But what triggered that to go from just a discussion to a and now I'm gonna do assessment. Know? What

Oh, so every time we go to a call, if it's mental health related, the officer's gonna go in. The officer's gonna provide security. The mental health provider is gonna come in and do an assessment on the person. Not every encounter, we're gonna do an assessment because it might be we're just getting out with somebody because a welfare check came in, and they're just laying on the ground. I mean, they just might be tired or something like that, so we may not do an assessment there.

And and not every event requires an assessment. I just didn't know if you had a a hard, fast, you know It's

case by case basis.

Okay. You.

That FPD is a department too has been really really good with if they've gone to a call that wasn't initially a mental health call the officer on that call will like hey you know they'll radio for CRT specifically Which again is a real big benefit to all police programs I believe when you pair up with a mental health component because there's almost always something there and the willingness of all of the officers both city and county to call on upon just some additional help is only grown.

Well, stressors. Mean, they're yeah.

You're keeping statistics on this numbers. And is there a review board for the protocol? Was that done?

I don't know on your

you so to review how

you're Usually, if you keep numbers on people, it's it's you have to have a review board to do your protocol, only because if you wanna publish this or pass that on, it has to be.

I mean, it gets so all these numbers get reported to the command staff, and I believe it's placed into our annual report. Yeah. And

then from the mental health side, my stats go to the LDHA and then the DHA. They're kind of tied in there too.

That thing would back you up if you wanted to build on that. So you have numbers to to back it up.

Yeah.

Good. Yeah, I'm good.

I had a question. How do you how do you onshore like follow-up with the different services like mental health, substance abuse as far as anyone that's going through that CRT?

That's I think really where again the mental health component comes to shine. My team or mobile crisis has this unit we have one with the county as well and then we have just what I like to call our primary team. And that's kind of where everybody is trained from a base level on the primary team. Those skills are your baseline assessments. All of the entitlements around us all the programs all the organizations that are willing to help people in these kind of tight spots.

So luckily we have a very robust training program on that so enable to really help somebody. Kind of are you probably I'm trying to say this eloquently and I don't really know how you get a really good sense of what you think may help somebody I find about like halfway to a quarter way through the assessment. So I will try to breadcrumb a little bit of like hey you know when like you're escalated and things have kind of come to a close like start thinking about this. That then will give me some time to go back do some further research make sure that we're qualifying see if there's something that can qualify a little bit better and then during that follow-up that's when you start talking about those things because nobody can think about a like doing something in midst of a crisis right. We're very privileged in this county I think there's so much to connect people to and being through MHA they have such a robust and detailed database of all of those things.

So it's it's it's easy for me to go back to my office and type in a little keyword and like a whole bunch of stuff.

Many end up going to the hospital? Do you have a guess? Ten percent, 25, 50?

I don't know.

So out of roughly, let's say, 1,100 and some calls for service, we took 109 people.

How many?

109.

Okay.

Yeah. So the mental health related calls for service was 439. We did a 109 emergency petitions. I don't track to see if they're coming just from the mental health calls. That's every that's all the calls that CRT goes to. So that could have been we responded to a domestic to where somebody was in a manic epic manic episode, and we deemed it necessary to take him to the hospital also. But not it wasn't dispatched as a mental health call for service.

It's racial dependent. Right? Yeah. I mean, as it evolves, you you sort of like you were saying, there was you've you think you know where the bread crumbs should be deleted into.

Yeah. And it I mean, it gets a little tricky when it comes down to reporting because we're still gonna document. Right. If it's if they go to a domestic and the EP, somebody, it's still gonna be documented as a domestic because there are certain requirements we have to meet for domestic reporting.

And I know it's going back and forth. Right now, if a patient's transported, who does it? The police or EMS?

So the police can do it. We can do it. It's all gonna it's gonna be officer dependent and situational dependent. So it can change? So it could. Absolutely. So if you have a very compliant person, we can put them in our car, we can transport them to the hospital. If we think that there might be, you know, a sugar issue or anything like that, anything medical related, we're gonna call an ambulance. If we think that for any reason, it just liability wise that it is we're better off to transport them via ambulance in case something does happen. Or if we need the extra space to actually remain hands on with the person, we're gonna call an ambulance. So

Thank you.

Mhmm. Okay.

I'll kinda jump in and speak to the sheriff's office. We don't have a crisis response team like the city does. We do have a partnership with Mobile Crisis, I would say. And a little bit of the history for the sheriff's office in Mobile Crisis. In 2021, the sheriff's office earmarked a $130,000 to the county to afford to the it was Shepherd Fred at the time, but the health the health department to get mobile crisis to be twenty four seven.

To give a little bit of a background on around that time of 2021 and and when mobile crisis was kicking off, there was a lot of push of, you know, law enforcement isn't needed on a lot of these scenes. And I think most police officers, and I think mental health professionals, would agree that a lot of them don't require a law enforcement response. But as a police officer working night shift in the middle of the night and a family that needs support, we were the only people to call. And in 2021, when mobile crisis was able to go twenty four seven, in my experience, it was the first time where somebody actually was able was showing up more so than just saying, hey. Police shouldn't be doing this.

People put money where it needed to be to start to relieve some of the pressure on law enforcement. And since 2021, mobile crisis in Frederick County has been showing up twenty four seven. For Frederick City, they touched on their CRT program, but I know even outside of those forty hours that you work, mobile crisis is readily available to their personnel, our personnel, Brunswick, Thurmont, anybody that needs it in Frederick County has mobile crisis.

I was gonna ask that. So that's that's that's very good that you're servicing actually the whole county, but you're not manned for that. You know?

So And this was unique for us in law enforcement, and obviously I can only speak to Frederick County, but it was it was a program that was implemented where people showed up and have continued to show up, and we're now five, six years into this program of being twenty four twenty fourseven. So that took place in twenty twenty one, twenty fourseven for youth and adults. They would come out for we rely on them a lot for the youth who are in most of the schools within Frederick County, and they do have a partnership with FCPS where they can come in and provide support. In 2023, we started implementing the next phase with Shepard Pratt at the time, where we were going to have an individual from Shepard Pratt embedded within our office. We provided office space to them.

What we were trying to accomplish is to kind of break some of those barriers of, you know, this outside entity being foreign to law enforcement professionals that are used to handling everything by ourselves because we were the only people that were responding.

They called you. Yeah.

Yep. And we had to go. So we wanted to kind of break some of those barriers and start to form relationships with our personnel. So we originally gave them an office space. And I can't remember how many personnel were assigned to us at that time. It kind of evolved into a lot of people. So what we found is the model really wasn't effective. We did. They started to do ride alongs. They would do ride alongs with our personnel. It wasn't just specific officers. It was anybody in patrol operations. The mindset behind that is we look at ourselves. Obviously, Frederick City provides a great quality of service. We like to say we do as well.

But the geography of the county is a little bit more unique than that of Frederick City, where if we're tying up EMS and one of our deputies and I'll touch on deputy resources, the individual is a scarce resource right now that we don't have a lot of we're trying to hire more people. So an efficient use of our resources, we didn't feel, was to partner so much so in that crisis response. But we knew that they were 20 fourseven readily available, and we were trying to get them out there. So in 2023, we started that model. It kind of faded away because we were doing the ride alongs. The time in the office really wasn't necessary for them. They found themselves kind of going back to their office, which was fine. So the office space went away. But ride alongs have continued. We're down to two ride alongs.

Some other things they've done for our agency is not this year, but I think it was 2024 with our in service training. They were a part of our training. We're actually role players in some of our scenario based training. So not only are they teaching deputies and forming relationships, we're also applying the things that they're they're out there preaching, and they get to be role players and kinda critique personnel too. They worked with our crisis negotiation team on training as well and some conversations about best practices.

But we're down to Tuesdays and Thursdays, and when MHA took over for Shepherd Pratt for Mobile Crisis, Alex and I came back to the table, and we we kind of discussed how we can improve this program because originally, what we started in 2023 had kind of faded. And, again, the ride alongs continued but had lessened. But we still had a great relationship. Our calls did increase, but our goal is to obviously increase more. So I actually Alex and I have come up with a plan to the sheriff's office is gonna provide mobile crisis that our our personnel right now we have Heidi, and I I'm not sure if we have another one.

And Alex. Yep. So we'll have three total people that can be assigned to us for eight hours a day. We're asking for them to split their time, 50% of their time at our office, but we're going to give them one of our portable radios. They're going to supply a cell phone, and with the relationships that have already been formed, they're going listen to the radio.

They're going to have a county that they can be readily available to respond out quicker. I won't I have data on calls for service and, you know, how often we've used mobile crisis, and I'll just jump to that. Out of our mental health calls, only 18% of the time, we're calling mobile crisis. My goal with implementing this new program is to increase that number within the first year, hopefully, to 25%, because I think there is deputies are going on solving an immediate problem. But because we're not having them come out, that long term connection that they try to bridge that gap, I think we can do a better job.

They're still there, you know, and it's not going away, but you've solved the immediate crisis.

Yep. Yep. And I think if we can get them on more of our mental health calls, it'll be a better quality service that we provide to the community. Another way we kind of gauge our response to mental health calls is we have a program called Power Engage, which sends a text message out to people that call 911 for certain call types. Obviously, you know, some calls we're not going to ask. We send a survey out asking the quality of service that they receive from our personnel. And with that, last year in 2025, we had a 93% positive rating. And even on the comments, you'll see the comments are stopped. They think it's spam. And that gets triggered as a negative response.

So I truly believe it's more than 93%. But it's just a metric. And that includes when mobile crisis is coming out. So it's that partnership that's responding to mental health calls. But that's where we're at right now. That's kind of where we're hoping to go, because we do see room for improvement. Again, the CRT model for us, the agency has taken us that it wouldn't be an efficient use of our resources at this time, but we do have additional resources that we can use to improve the quality of service. And we're continuously looking to improve that quality and increase the amount. We also look at time on scene for these types of calls for service. Again, it's our belief that there are some incidents that don't require a deputy.

So if we can get there and make the scene safe, I and can get a deputy, you know, if I only have two deputies working in the northern or western part of the county, a more rural area, there's less people working. If I can get mobile crisis there and the scene safe and I could get my deputy out there to respond to a a law enforcement problem, I'm lowering the response time on those types of calls for service, and I'm increasing the quality of service not only to the mental health caller, but to the other residents within the county. So a little bit different, but it's the same same service that's get provided outside the forty hours that CRT is working.

Especially when you're servicing the whole county.

Yep.

I mean, it's it's not like we're just so densely populated. It's it's a five to 10 mile radius. It's more than that. Know? So it it you know, when you only got four people. But I I I'm assuming that you're also trying to train the officers, you know, that they're all calls and all that, you know, what's available and also that they understand. Right? Okay.

The other piece of that too and sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead. Is we have a we have two people assigned to our victim services unit that do reach out to the mobile crisis team. So if we write a report, let's say mobile crisis wasn't contacted for whatever reason, there's a plethora of reasons why that could occur, our victim services, our detectives that are reviewing the reports could send it to victim services who will then contact mobile crisis and facilitate and coordinate a follow-up to still get them the resources even though it's not on I'm a patrol I'm the patrol operations commander.

I forgot to say that in the beginning. I'm sorry. So I'm the 911 call response. But there is another element within the agency that does trigger mobile crisis to get them involved, even after the fact, if a deputy doesn't do it, or a deputy does do it, and we've continuously went out there, and mobile crisis could be a resource. Another thing that's kind of outside of mobile crisis that we do, FPD is a part of this as well, is in the county we have what's a it's a group that comes together, I think it's every two weeks, the high utilizer.

Whereas if the county has, you know, a reoccurring I don't wanna say problem, but a reoccurring location or individual that generates a lot of calls for service, we'll bring all the stakeholders within the mental health community, within the county, to discuss, to try to formulate a plan, to try to not stop, but get them the I don't know how to word this properly get them the appropriate resources to lessen the burden on law enforcement. FHH is included in that conversation, too. So if they're using those resources, we all come together to try to come up with solutions to these mental health problems. And another thing we're engaged in is there's a suicide coalition within Frederick County through the health department as well that the sheriff's office sits on where we look at suicides that occur within a on a monthly basis. There's been a lot of things with, you know, handgun securing handguns that the county has pushed out that had been discussed and implemented based off of conversations within that program.

So even outside of us that respond and our, you know, patrol deputies and mobile crisis, there's a lot of things within Frederick County that are great that are going on behind the scenes that every agency within this county are a part of and have a voice to speak to be a part of the solution, but also to bring forth problems for other people to help us include. So it goes to what they said of Frederick County truly is a great place for the resources that we have and the collaboration. There's times where, because we don't have a CRT, I hear patrol deputies during the day, can you start out the city's CRT? And and they'll help us. So it is it's such a great relationship between the agencies and also mobile crisis. We're very fortunate in Frederick County.

Okay. Anything else? Or you or you've you've got more slides or more sketch points?

No. That was pretty much the majority of it. Just through progressing throughout the years, we've changed with the times. And I think the most noticeable thing is we we actually listen to the people that we go out to help. So a lot of people were having before we were in a marked vehicle that had all the partnership along the side and stuff like that, and it was actually increasing the stress at that time for the people because they were saying, well, what does my neighbor think that they see, you know, Shepherd Pratt coming out to talk to me and stuff like that.

So we now have a unmarked Tahoe that the team responds in. We added, a k nine to the unit, so we have a therapy dog, that will respond out to calls for service also. That's pretty much about it.

Another big piece in the county too is, I'm not sure if you're the Crisis Stabilization Center Mhmm. Which does afford and Alex can probably speak to it better than Ben and I could. But we just had the opportunity for our sergeants meeting. We was hosted at the Crisis stabilization center. That way, can start to bridge that gap and use that resource a little bit more too, which is a voluntary program where people can get Alex can speak to it.

But it is a huge resource that as an agency, we're trying to start to tap into a little bit more because it is it's not new, but the expansion is a little bit new. And these types of things, to get a patrol deputy that works in the middle of the night, works seven days in two weeks to remember, hey, that I could send this person to the Crisis Stabilization Center, is a little bit tricky. It's a challenge that we have to continuously remind people and kind of, Hey, this is out there. Remember this resource. So we hosted our sergeants meeting there to kind of get people familiar with it, know what they truly can send people for, can refer families even if mobile crisis isn't out there to this resource that's in Frederick County because it is a huge resource that we do have at our disposal.

I think a big piece found within both the city and the county is the mutual trust that these programs whether or not we're inside the specialty programs or just on a primary call all kind of have in each other. I think that having the opportunity to educate from both sides is so helpful. I mean I don't remember who it was that did our self defense training a little bit ago. Not defense but defensive

Tactics.

Staging. Yeah.

Something like Yeah. Call it defensive tactics.

It goes both ways very much so and it's it's so beneficial to everybody. Just speak a little more on the it's called the walk in crisis center. MHA is very much a program where you have someone to call, you have somewhere to go, and you have somebody to respond. We are obviously the response fees. The somewhere to go is that the walk in crisis center also twenty four hours.

I think that when Captain Woodward had the idea of kind of hosting his meeting there he was like I don't think that like it's kind of out of the way. Don't know if anybody's really talking about this like when we're in the field. And it has I mean I've gotten really great feedback from them over there too that the presence has been a little bit more helpful. So I think it just goes to show that if you have the camaraderie, if you have the mutual respect, if you have the trust in each other then like really great things happen. And when they don't work all teams are very receptive to changing it so that it does.

I think when they see you in action and partnership and they can they realize, okay. It's a safe environment and they see you're taking control of the emotional side or the, you know, the issues at hand, I think the trust comes because they they realize, okay. She's got it or that he's got it, you know, and they can back away, and just be an observer and just be, I guess, a a tool there if you need it. You know? That's great. So but there's only four. Right? I mean, that's that seems to be

What was the there's only four? Yeah.

I'm not talking about people on your team.

Oh yeah so we we just have dedicated folks that are like first line to do this program. Everybody is trained on my team from my side. Everybody is trained to do every program. We just try to keep it small to really gain on that camaraderie. But that's not to say that because the FCSO program only runs for a set amount of time similar to CRT as well. The exposure is still very much there because we see each other out in the field all the time. So it's not just limited to those individuals but those individuals I think kind of helped build the trust in the Rapport Building that's led to being able to kind of do this everywhere.

And when we kind of phased out of that 2023 I feel like having too many people coming in and out like the revolving door So I concur with what she just said of having that limited group that's kind of assigned to FPD or the sheriff's office creates that, you know, environment where people feel comfortable and

because you don't feel comfortable handing over a situation that you're that you're responsible for unless you know that person can perform. Right? Yep. I mean, it is performance based. What what was the outcomes? You know? And when you feel comfortable, yeah, that this team is gonna handle it. I can't back away. You know? And I think, like you said, mutual trust, it starts growing from there. Anybody else got

And we've had them not even just your small

Go ahead.

My apologies.

Go ahead. Let you

go.

No. I was say, we've even had them a part of pretty critical incidents, like barricades. They're at our command post, and we're consulting with them about, you know, dealing with an individual that's in mental health crisis. So a lot of these things might be you're thinking of a 911 call for service where somebody's just in their house, maybe a destruction of property type call, but they have been they're obviously not on the front line with our personnel, but they're in a position where we can consult them in, you know, high liability, critical incidents to be a part of our team to make good to deescalate situations. So it's not even just 911 calls. It's it's bigger than that, what they provide for us.

And I I commend you for, the application within the CRT. My concern is the unseen. There was an incident back in November, and we talked about this last meeting, where a young African American teenager, was detained. He was leaving a Boy Scout meeting. He was detained, and it was due to, I believe, it was, vehicle theft.

And they they kept him until they were able to collaborate. The fact that it wasn't him, it was these guys, took the cuffs off, go Is the CRT handling something like that as a follow-up? Because 14 years old, being detained for something you didn't do. And I believe this kid has a very high GPA. I am very concerned, not only because of what happened to him, but what may be happening to others that are of an innocent nature. And it was just a misinterpretation, misdiagnosis, and the kid goes back home. He goes back home damaged.

No. I'll answer that. I'll the CRT program operates within Frederick City. The incident you're referencing happened within the sheriff's office jurisdiction, so we don't have a CRT response. My limited knowledge of that incident, there was no mobile crisis response after the fact, but that's my limited knowledge of the incident.

And, again, this kid has been neglected, and I'm not really concerned whose jurisdiction it is. I am afraid that a kid who was on the right path is is gonna veer off because of what happened to him. PTSD is real. You know? Being military, I get it.

Being police officers, I get it. Being a kid, detained, go back home, we gotta address this. We have to address this because if not, he is gonna become a statistic. And worst case scenario, he ends up dead because of what happened. So there needs to be a collaboration within the departments on identifying these type of situations and providing somebody from the CRT to go out and check on him as well as the family?

So I I can just speak for the city. So any officer is able to if they feel that it's necessary or they think it's beneficial to have CRT come out while we're working, they'll just call us, and they'll ask us to come out. That's more than acceptable for us to come out to something like that. Another part of that is anytime that we have a juvenile affected, there's certain criteria, but an officer can also do what's called a handle with care. Are you familiar with that at all?

Okay. So that gets notified to the schools and stuff like that to also track and make sure, like, mainly, you're gonna have that in domestics or a death or anything like that. But that's another incident where an officer could, potentially submit one of those. And so additional people that interject with that kid or, are involved with that kid on a continuous basis throughout school and stuff like that and keep an eye on the person. I have no problem. I'm more than always willing to have the team come out to anything. So anybody can call me at any time. Any, Frederick City resident can call me. I don't have a problem with my team going out to the county if it's beneficial. We've done that in the past, but I'm very open.

Call me. Shoot me an email. I'll have the team follow-up. So it's subjective is what you're telling me? Yeah. It's it's it's not a it's not a it's a case by case basis. It's gonna be something triggered by the officers on scene. It's not something that's written into policy that we're gonna have CRT follow-up with them because CRT is not working at the time. We can. That's something that the commanders would have to the command staff would have to deem it necessary to do. But, also, if a community member or community leader wants us to do it, we can absolutely do it. Like, just send me an email. Let me know. Call me. I have no problem with our team going out to do that.

I I'm concerned that this is one of these situations that has fallen through the cracks and could bubble up later. There needs to be something within the policies that all of the departments have that when we detain a young adult, I don't care what age it is, and it is determined that the in in the individual is innocent and was released, there should be something in policy that says we need to do a thirty, sixty, or ninety day follow-up to make sure that the person is is on the right track and not going left. I know you can't cover the whole world, but this one sticks out to me. And it and it's it's very concerning because I have no idea what is going through his head, what the other students in his school are probably teasing him about, and and what what are his safeguards? Tough question.

And I'm not asking you to answer it, but I'm asking you to think about it. Develop a policy to where there is a methodology on following up when something like this happens. So we can at least say, hey. We did our thirty sixty ninety. Everything looks good. We're documented. We move on. Right now, we've just moved on. So that's my position on it. Not trying to call anybody on the carpet. I just wanna make it very obvious that it it is concerning. And young adults are dealing with a lot of stuff that us old heads never had to deal with before. So find a way to help him out. Thank you.

Without necessarily referring to that exact incident, but in an incident like that when a juvenile has been you're speaking to trauma, but there's also an element of stigma. Right? So if you are seen to be detained by the police, that can discredit you. That that that has an impact on your reputation. And the question then is, is there a way to help restore that?

Some kind of process of reconciliation or explanation or something to help restore, not just to respond to potential trauma, but also to help someone restore their reputation after they've been seen to be involved with the police. So that's that's sort of the issue that I wanted to bring up.

Yeah. So I just kind of been listening to everything. So a couple of questions, I apologize in advance. I figured it's easy to kind of just let everyone talk and express themselves and go from there. So earlier in the conversation, there was a mention of, you know, four out of 18, a core team, things of that.

And that's that I am assuming, and please correct my assumptions, that that is a decision made on your guys' side of the house by choice. You're doing that, and you're choosing four individuals to kind of operate as a core team for the cohesion that it allows within each in each individual team. Is there is the thought process that four is is enough and it provides the coverage that you need for the rotation at all times? Or do you think that more is more personnel are better needed? I know you said you have another potentially 14 that can assist but is I'm just trying to make sure how you how you made that decision to stick

at four.

All the above if I can be explicitly clear. Having not I'm not employed by the police departments and we are extremely blessed to have them as flexible as they are. It started off as a need because I didn't have the staffing. It was a poor group of people and then the feedback that we got we asked all everybody who participates both city and county alike at both teams. We found that it's just beneficial for more people when it is a closer group when that rapport has been built. I think a lot of that is a trust that we had spoken on earlier. We try to keep it a little bit smaller just because it's easier I found for people to find their rhythm.

Mhmm.

I think that me seeing somebody in the community on a primary call I am usually more likely to I don't want to say get further because that's not it. I think that the participation rates with somebody calling into the hotline for personal help is much much higher. They're more likely to kind of really interact they are asking me directly for the help right. I think one of the key differences is if we're responding to a call that's come in over dispatch that's not always the case. I think that once my mental health professionals who are in either of their respective cars kind of get a feel for that maybe pick up some extra tools they learn from the officers about how to get people to engage on that.

It's just those skills for those individuals are just a little bit sharpened. It's the people that I've allocated towards both of these programs have a lot of strengths that are consistent with what we've seen being successful in the past.

If you don't mind, but I think going back to doc Chandler's question and to to yours, Neil, Maybe the maybe the paperwork side of it or the administrative side, keeping the dots, you know, tied together, you know, across the county. I mean, we're talking about from Pennsylvania to to Virginia, right, West Virginia. So we talk about the as big as the county is, who is doing the follow-up and and, you know, trying to trying to put all this together, not just for numbers, but, you know, just like, you know, following up with somebody 18 that got, you know, detained or something, make sure that we haven't put a you know, left an impression that we shouldn't have left, you know, or or and it's not just for the the sheriff's department or the city or but we're talking about the whole county. Right? And that's a that's a huge area.

That's what I was thinking about for people to think. Wow. You know, you can barely drive back and forth a couple of times before your eight hours is up. Right?

And it's not all at the same time. Yeah. Because when we respond with police, they dispatch us. So, no, we're not always Right. Like happens that we weren't on that call. I think the beauty though you also spoke to this is their victim services unit we have a very very good report with you. So there have been times and this is a really great fuel to that because it opens that conversation up. We're just not always aware of what's going on from the crisis side but having kind of heard these stories and hearing your input on that I think creates more of a space for that growth. Having that connection with their victim services unit there could be somebody who really doesn't need the extra help anymore. We've gotten referrals from her being like, hey, can you just check up on them? Something wasn't right or something wasn't hitting me the way that I think it needed to. And then we will kind of just be that extra piece, that extra liaison. So it happens, but I agree.

The administrative I think, were these are invaluable to us, Sarah and Kendall. But, you know, focusing on the whole problem set, not just the the pieces that we have in front of us. Right? Mhmm. And it would be I I would think it would be invaluable to have that person in the background that's doing that, you know, continuously. You you're always getting that that fresh look at something, you know, and tying everything together and say, hey. Did you see these? You know, we're always going back to here. Have you have you noticed that? You know, or something like that.

But also a young adult, you know, doing that follow-up with whoever that person is or maybe even the pastor, you know, just checking with them that then they build that that rapport with those community leaders to to to help us. Right? I think that you would you would have a it would just bring a different dynamic to it, I I think. But because four people can't can't do the follow-up and, you know, take care of the problem set that's in front of them and wait till tomorrow to do something. And, you know, I think that that the administrative piece sometimes could be, you know, very valuable to you.

I because, obviously, you've run the numbers and you you understand that it's growing, but, you know, the benefits is great. You know? Maybe it could be something, and maybe we could advocate for that too. If we could get your your your slide in on the in the background stuff so we could actually articulate that in our annual reports as we go along. You know, what's been helpful because I was actually we're on a Brunswick ride along. We actually called your team, and you responded. And it was just interesting watching it because I've I've done the crisis led counseling stuff, And I was just just to see y'all come in and, yeah, you know, like you said, the the report was there. They also knew that, you know, that there was no danger and boom. It was over. You know?

So it felt really good to have that, but I know if your focus is the city, sometimes that might stretch you a little thin. You know? But I know they're very young. Everybody seemed very pleased. You know? Anything else? Mhmm. Well, I'm sorry. No.

No worries. So, Corporal Wilson.

Yeah.

So you mentioned handle with care policies. Is that is there a defined set of criteria that triggers that, or is that basically officer's discretion or whoever's on-site?

There's so we have certain criteria that will automatically trigger it. Mhmm. But a caveat to that is an officer can just complete it if they feel it's necessary or if it's in the best interest of the child.

Okay. So even if the even if the the triggers aren't necessarily met and they just still evaluate it independently can say

Absolutely.

I think so and so needs it.

Okay. Yes.

And to piggyback that, the sheriff's office has the same policy because it goes through FCPS, so it's the same it's the same county response to triggering the same

Correct. So and that was gonna be my my follow-up with that is is that once it's triggered, then basically, you're identifying the FCPS, any students or any individuals when you talk to those schools about that. How does that play out?

So it's sent electronically. Okay. So you enter it's a it's just a link. You enter the person's name, the child's name, what school you believe they go to. There's a age. I think it's below five years old and above five years And then they get sent off to the school. And then we have no additional follow-up with it. The school would handle it at that point. They just monitor the child.

Okay. And then for the sheriff's office. Yeah. Catherine, what you mentioned one of the motivators for the way that you're operating with mental health personnel and is for effective use of personnel. That's one of your kind of criteria and the things that you're cognizant of.

One of them. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of many. So with that right there, you mentioned earlier, you know, if you have an individual, you have an officer on scene somewhere in a rural part of the county because there's not a lot of coverage there or whatever, that if that scene or that whatever's going on in that location is determined to be safe enough, you can kind of pull that officer off and let the mental health specialist or behavioral health specialist deal with what's going on. So what does that officer on-site make that determination? Do they call back in?

It would be determined based off of their the Their professional crisis is comfortable being there without law enforcement present. It would be done in collaboration with the mental health professional on scene. It wouldn't be just like the deputy. They're here. I'm gone.

Yeah. I'm gonna

Yeah.

Move off. Yep. Gotcha.

If that handoff, if it were to occur, would take a few minutes to obviously let them get acclimated with the, you know, the situation that's going on. And then if there can be a smooth transition, then it would happen. That doesn't always happen, though. There's time plenty of times where mobile crisis wishes for the deputy to stay, and we we do that.

Okay.

And just to piggyback, we do the same. We have the same process.

Gotcha. That's all I had. I appreciate sir.

For y'all as it was for us to to receive it because it it tells us that our our county really is moving in the right direction to support, you know, not just the law enforcement, but also the pressures that are out there that are that we don't really identify a lot of times, you know, or we we ignore because it's, you know, stop them, get it get it get it contained, deescalate, and then move on. You know? Sometimes it's all you got time for, but it's good to hear that we're walking in concert with other agencies, yeah, and give resources for it. Okay. If anybody has any more We're good.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Appreciate it. Thank

you. Thank you for the constructive feedback. Thank you.

Thank you.

Anybody else from the law enforcement side, would you all want to talk? Okay. We're good? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Administrative charging committee update, mister Humphries. I don't know how you could beat that. I mean, yes, it could be hard. Yeah.

Hi there. Good evening. I'm Thomas Humphries, chair of the administrative charging committee. I'm here to give you a brief quarterly update from the administrative charging committee. From 01/22/2026 to date, the ACC has reviewed 11 complaints about police misconduct.

Of those eleven, eight are from the Frederick Police Department and three are from the Frederick County Sheriff's Office. The 11 complaints investigated contain 20 allegations of police misconduct involving 17 officers. Four allegations have been unfounded, 14 allegations have been exonerated, and two have been administratively charged. Most of the complaints are violation of LEA's policies and stand to include discourtesy, unbecoming conduct, and illegal traffic stops. One, neglect of duty allegation was unfounded, and one was exonerated.

Two, racial profiling allegations were exonerated. One failure to deescalate allegation was administratively charged. 10 civility and respect or discourtesy allegations had seven of them were exonerated, three were unfounded. Of the three illegal traffic stop allegations, two were exonerated and one was administratively charged. There was one illegal search and seizure allegation that was exonerated. One violation of first and fourth amendment rights were was exonerated, one allegation. And we have one case currently pending, and we meet tomorrow.

I'm sorry. We had one trial, if my memory is correct. Oh, yep. Okay. Do I have any questions?

I do. When I go through this, the first question that comes to my head is what type of matrix is used to make a determination that this doesn't fall into, racial profiling, this doesn't fall into civil disrespect? What are the checks and balances that you use when you get these allegations?

I'd say the biggest check and checks and balance is that there are five of us reviewing the material. So we have the video evidence or the transcripts. We have the policies and then so of the full investigation. And then the five of us review that and determine whether the policies have been violated or the law has been violated.

K. Is there a comparison to the individual's record and looking for, the last, say, three years if certain profiles are starting to be exemplified and have been neglected. So officer Joe Bagadonuts ends up and I'll just pick on the the racial profiling. Three in the last three years, there has been, let's say, seven calls against him. That's a lot.

Mhmm.

So is that something that is part of your matrix research?

Not to determine whether this event is racial profiling. The the history of the officer is relevant once we have decided to charge. Then we see what else is in his history. Presumably, we would see

The only time that we would see the officer's background history is if, based on that case, the ACC decides to administratively charge that officer, then they can go in and look at the disciplinary history and see if they've had if they've been administratively if they've had a disciplinary record or award record, that's when they can look at their disciplinary history, not before that.

Yeah.

We're not tracking pattern. We're we're not really

Factors or mitigating factors is the sort of work

So that you're I would think you're missing something. If if you're not looking at an individual's history to determine that there's a flaw here and there needs to be a redirection, I think you're you're we're missing the point where okay. I'm looking at this face value for what it is. Okay. I I don't see anything here based on the camera. Conversely, hey. I I see something here. Let me go back and look at the records. That that should be a consistent comparison, I would think.

I I think it's tricky because I I I think, you know, we're trying to evaluate what happened here, And you don't really wanna be influenced by what happened with other people in other situations, especially ones that we don't have the video for or don't have the context. It would be hard to ignore it if it's somebody we have seen before. Then I think that plays a role, but it's risky to use other situations that you don't have the evidence for. Even if someone was to say they were charged, know, somebody accused them of something and whether they were convicted or charged or not, does that mean this I mean, I think it's Well, yes, yes. I mean, I think in courtroom, generally, you can't do that.

Obviously, if you're trying to argue there's a pattern, that's different. But I think in general, you try and keep your analysis limited to the case at hand.

And you're you're doing the department, the community a disservice. You can't just look at something face value. And this is Joe Chandler. You can't look at something face value and say, okay. No good. Or this this smells bad. Well, what are you basing both of those accounts on? You you can't just base it on what have in front of you. There there has to be a history that you can track to say, this has happened before

Mhmm.

And and we missed it. Well, we got it now. Let's do something about it. Again, I think you're doing yourself or the department is doing itself a disservice by not digging a little bit deeper and doing a comparison to see, is there a track record here? Not just based on, you know, the black and white that's in front of you. Case in point, you you have a couple and one of them are has been accused of, marital misconduct.

Mhmm.

Is this the first time? This not is a police department thing. This is my thing.

Sure.

And it's like, I'm gonna call them in. It's like, how many times have you done this? Well, too many. Okay. We we've gotta get you some help. Okay? Because if I just say, okay. This was a one time good deal. Don't do it again. But I'm gonna ask the question, have you done this before? And I don't care which party it is. And so that helps me with the counseling that I have to do or defer them to somebody that can help them. And I'm I'm thinking the same thing here. You know, let's look at the history and and make sure we're not doing ourselves a disservice or this falls through the cracks, and then it acrobates later on down the road. So I understand. Just

And I and I I think I might quibble more with your hypo than with your original question. But to use your hypo of marital issue, you know, saying, oh, this is a one time thing. Don't do it again. Well, if it was something that was wrong to the point we say don't do it again, that, in in our world, we have decided to charge them. At that point, we get to now see the history.

I think what you may were getting at at the beginning was someone pulling someone over in a racial profiling case. On its face, it may be neutral. It may be, well, he was doing something wrong, so he pulled him over. But only upon seeing multiple cases of this does it actually form. It gives you context to what you're looking at.

And right now, we're not allowed to look at anything other than the specific event. So we can't use that information to decide whether to charge them. The mayoral examples, we have charged them, and now we're gonna see if it's gonna ramp up the punishment or mitigate it, depending on whatever the context is. I mean, from a personal perspective, I don't disagree that something like racial profiling, I think, is incredibly hard to determine on one stop. Yeah.

But unless someone says something or it's something overt, which often isn't the case, But I don't I mean, right now, we're not allowed to look at any of that stuff until we've decided on the the merits of the individual case.

How do you get that changed?

Legislatively.

Okay.

I'd like to comment on that. When I started as a police officer, there was no police bill of rights, and they could charge you in for anything and charge you and take leave from you. I mean, that's the way it was. And the police bill of rights follows the court system. Basically, you can't determine to charge somebody by their past behavior that's gone.

But it only comes in after the person is found guilty in a court of law. In other words, for sentencing type things. So I understand what you're saying. But unless they're found guilty of that offense, that previous offense, they can't bring it up. And they can't bring it up unless they're found guilty of the current offense now, or they're charged with that offense now. And that's the way it is because the abuse by the administrators before was so great. That's why they came up with Police Bill of Rights. You know? And that's a long time ago, but that's what happened.

So suppose my concern is if I racially profile and I get good at it, like I figure out I can racially profile, but in non obvious ways, how does that pattern ever get spotted? And, you know, one thing is, does an individual's history matter? Apparently, doesn't matter in this case, but earlier we heard law enforcement say if the same person, the same address generates a lot of calls for service, now we are going to respond. So I don't know if there's a double standard there or not, or at least sort of different practice in terms of when do we take an individual's history into account and when don't we. It's a little bit troubling because a lot of it is subjective, it's probably hard to prove.

But people get cunning, people figure out how to get away with stuff. So that's a problem.

The one thing I think everybody's missing, Tom, is there is there's also an internal investigation before it comes to the ACC. So there's some of the concerns that you're talking about. They they are I think, they're factoring that in when they see it. Before it comes to the ACC, the law enforcement agency has already done a thorough investigation and an interrogation of the individuals. So the piece you're talking about, I mean, they they have more flexibility within their process before it gets to the ACC.

But we're the ACC is, you know, bound by the rules that are there just like we were stating that, you know, that policy is you say within these guidelines that you either is charged or not, you know, or you found guilty, then it brings in other factors. But the internal investigation also, I think they have a lot more left and right latitude to to know that person's history or not. But I I think that should give us some indication that there is a process, but we are bound by those. The ACC is bound by those, you know, with strict rules of this is the know, you stay within here and the the data that we give you. And unless we the individual is found guilty, then it you know, more more information can be brought forward to for the punishment part of it, which I think is, you know, just like you said, it's just like the same as the courts are.

So I don't think we're any different than that.

I agree. I I I think the agency is not allowed to put into their findings. The way, this is the fifth time we've had to do this for this guy. So I think they're just as limited in what they can say. They do probably have some freedom to put a little of their opinion in what they're writing as it relates to this particular case. But they really

don't think they're allowed. Do do an internal investigation.

We seen some of that. But we have not seen references to previous

Yeah. Offenses. That still doesn't answer the question on how in-depth is this review done. Understand you're limited.

Mhmm.

Got it. Okay? There's a couple layers below you, alongside of you, however you wanna structure it. Same question would apply. How in-depth are you going into this individual's history? You know? And there there has to be a point to where we have a stop gap and say, okay. We're not restricted. We wanna look at everything. You know? I wanna look at, you know, personnel records. I wanna look at mark marksmanship records, urinalysis, whatever. Someone somewhere in the process should have unabated access to everything about that individual when this arises.

Yeah. Have to strongly disagree with that because then you're saying, I'm gonna charge you because of your past behavior even if we weren't find you guilty. No. That's what You I'm can't look at that guilt or innocence until they're charged here. And anything in the past has a year expiration date on it. You know? Now if they're guilty three years ago and they're charged now, they can put that in there. But they can't just look at it and say, this is part of the termination. I understand what you're saying, but looking at it from the officer's perspective and I was around when you you didn't have any bill of rights, and they would just charge you nilly willy and say you're guilty, you lose a day. You know, that kind of stuff.

I mean, that's the way it was. And the officer bill of rights came about because of that, because of going in the past or driving people with nothing on their record. I mean, they just thought, well, we don't like this guy. This is what we're gonna do. And it but it follows the court process, the same thing.

I mean, so if you're found guilty in court, it can bring up all that stuff for sentencing. But if not, it can't come up because it has to apply to that thing right now. And I understand what you're saying, that it's habit, habitual. And I would say most of the time, you have police officers out there that have been involved in things, that have been involved in the past, if you looked in the past, the investigations in the past many times were not successful. In other words, they didn't push it. There's some very serious cases of police misconduct in this country where the officers have a long history of this, but they were never found guilty of anything. And that's the sad part of

it. Yeah.

And to probably add to your frustration, if when it does if we've decided to charge someone and it comes down to aggravating and mitigating factors, If even if we had found them, if we had charged them before, if they were to kick it to a trial board and then it sits there in limbo, that's not that can't come in as evidence yet because it's still out there. Right? It's all

Correct. Correct. Right right now, currently, the ACC is doing what they are legally supposed to do bound by the the the Maryland law. So they are doing everything that they are allowed to do legally. Again, when July, August, September comes and I send out that email to you that we're we're looking if you have ideas that you want or would like to be included for me to send to the CE for legislative changes, that is the time to send things like this to me because that will have to change on a different level.

It's not gonna change on this level. It's going to have to change on a higher level first. And I understand your concerns and, you know, in your annual report say, well, this is something we're working to toward or we'd like to see, but it's going to have to change at a higher level before it's going to come here. But currently, the ACC is doing everything that they are legally allowed to do and what they're supposed to do.

Alright. Is that it? No more questions?

Let's see. It gets hotter and hotter.

Alright. Sir?

Thank you, Thomas. Alright,

everyone. I'm just going to give you a brief administrative update. We have a Police Accountability Board Summit coming up in Baltimore City, and that is April 26 through the twenty eighth. In attendance will be the our the PAB chair and vice chair, Bob and Neil. Our administrative charging committee chair, Tom, will be in attendance.

Myself, Kendall, and lieutenant Corrado from the Frederick City Police Department will be in attendance for that conference. So we'll have a wealth of whatever we learn there to bring back for the July meeting or if I find anything before that that's you guy I think you guys would be helpful or they give me anything, I'll make sure you get it right away. Anybody that is signed up for the boards and commissions members meeting tomorrow, they're gonna share a

lot

of sometimes, I think it's an information overload, but you'll be shared a lot of information. They're gonna talk about the importance of attendance. And there's gonna be a section, I just wanted to warn you, they're gonna talk about SharePoints and accessing a SharePoint. We are quasi judicial, so we will not even be in that mix until sometime in 2027. So that's nothing you need to worry about anytime soon.

As far as upcoming events, I will be at vet Veterans Appreciation Day on May 2 with the Office of Equity and Inclusion, and I will represent and hand out and give out information on behalf of the Police Accountability Board and Administrative Charging Committee. As of right now, for Pride in July, we would need seven to nine volunteers. I have three. We do not have enough. And if we can't get enough, then the table will have to get turned over to the office of equity and inclusion.

And, also, the I put out about the Frederick County Sheriff's Office June 24, so I'd need about four volunteers. I have one. So if these are things that you're interested in doing, because I know we've talked about community outreach, I'm gonna need some more volunteers for us to be actively participating. Because if not, I'm not gonna keep signing us up for things and then nobody shows up or we can't show up because then that kinda just makes us look not much better. So I'm just putting that information out there, And I don't think that I have anything else. Those were my updates unless anybody needed to know anything from me.

Can you resend me the sheriff's office information again?

I can do that. I will send that all back out. I'll send out the reminders tomorrow so that you can look at it and look at your calendars.

We only need if if we just dedicate people just to dedicate a few hours, and then that would get us over the over the

Yeah. And the numbers I threw out there were what I feel is minimal to provide adequate coverage in trying to do stuff.

And it does put your our face to the public and to the agencies that we're trying to reach out to.

So And then they know who, you know, they know who you are and

Right.

Everything like that. So I will resend those out tomorrow so everybody can take a chance to look at them. Other than that, that is all. Thank you.

Anybody have anything else?

Just a real quick, Bill. There are other ways to do outreach other than some of these. I mean, this is you know, I can't do these. And I already told Sarah, I'm gonna be out of town. We're gone, that time of year, generally speaking.

So one of the things that I have started to see more and more committees and community, commissions do is do things at the library. They'll do, like, an hour, come talk to the police accountability board members, find out who we are, what we do, at different libraries around the county. That might be a possibility if we can get people to do that and do a lot of publicity on that as to when it's going to be. Of course, always have something to eat and drink. Light fare is always helpful.

But that's one of the other outreach possibilities for us other than doing the big events when we can't seem to get enough people there. We might only need two or three police accountability board members at Seabird Arts Library for an hour, an hour and a half, one evening. And bill it as bring your family because it would be good to because when we did the thing at Brunswick, what we discovered was is a lot of people were coming up with kids and asking us what they were. And the kids got coloring books and stuff. They were interested, you know, in what we were doing and understanding what was going on. So it's just another thing to think about.

And I think if people are doing that, make sure you give the data to, Sarah so she can also keep track of it so that the next iteration of the board and people see these opportunities to do outreach, that they know they're there and that they can go in and back it up too.

Oh, and if you're planning or scheduling something, I do need to know about Yeah.

I was gonna I was gonna say that. I was gonna say, you know, if I went ahead and scheduled something at Seabird Arts Library, I would clear it with Sarah first. Mhmm. I wouldn't just do it. I would say, hey. I'm thinking about doing this on Saturday, whatever. Might be really nice to do it on a first Saturday when there's lots of people downtown anyway, and you might be able to get more people to come. But, you know, I wouldn't schedule anything without letting having a conversation first with Sarah.

And we do we also have an NVN ad campaign in the works. So it's being reviewed right now. So that's also out there.

Okay. Anybody?

I would suggest that if you're going to do something other than one of these big events or a first Saturday at CBER Arts, the Frederick News Post has a calendar listing that is free. All you have to do is write up your little blurb, and they like to have it a couple weeks in advance because there are so many events. Just write up something in conjunction with Sarah or whatever and just send it to the news post. It's not a big deal.

That's a very good point. And I Sarah, I think we'll go back and look at the one you put out there and maybe we'll update it and see if we can push it back out again. Yep. Alright. Anyone else?

Ready? Next meeting is July 15. Public comment. Oh, I'm sorry. Public comments. I was trying to get us out of here. Anybody? I yeah. Alright. Now I have a more walk. Yep. Alright. Next meeting is fifteen July in person besides the training tomorrow. And the next one after that would be October 21. Without further ado, we'll adjourn this meeting. If not Motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. I was gonna go. Everybody?

I move to adjourn.

Second.

He's adjourned.