City Council - Regular Meeting

Okay. Good evening. We're going to call the uh city council regular meeting to order. Tuesday, December 9th, 6:30 p.m. roll call. Kaylee here.

Here

and we're going to do the pledge of allegiance. Please stand to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Yes. And we're going to have an invocation. Sorry, I didn't get my glasses on. Mike Carroll from the Valition County Sheriff's Office. Sorry, we did that backwards. It's all right. It's okay. Thank you so much. Always a privilege to be here. Thank you.

Father, thank you for this beautiful city. You've blessed it. You've caused it to prosper and grow. And we thank you for that. Keep your hand upon this city. Protect it and keep it safe. Be with our first responders as they're even now out in this city watching over it and protecting it. and we thank you for them for all they mean to this city. Guide and direct the steps tonight. Give wisdom, give insight, give understanding, direct every step we pray. Thank you for the leaders of this city. Bless them, use them, strengthen them, and encourage them. We pray in the name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. Thank you.

You're welcome.

David, you seat over here. Okay, number one, we absences. We have none. Got a little housekeeping things to do before we get started on the presentations and all that. I'm going to read a statement about public participation. The city council welcomes and encourages comments from the public. In order to be recognized by the chair during public participation periods, a speaker shall fill out a request form in the back of of the room there on the uh podium and present it to the deputy clerk or the clerk or to the council prior to their comment periods. Each speaker is allowed one opportunity to speak a public comment period for a maximum of three minutes. Speakers may not yield their allotted time three minutes to another speaker. The council may by majority vote reduce the time limit based on the number of speakers in order to accommodate the opportunity for public comment. When called to speak by the chair, all comments should be made from the podium or other reasonable accommodations by the chair. Speakers shall identify themselves by name and state their address. And if the speakers representing a group or organization, the group or organization should also be identified. Generally, the council members do not ask questions of speakers or respond to questions during public participation. Speakers shall make their comments and request the city council members to the city council members and consider their comments. The council is committed to conducting its meetings such that all participants have a fair and adequate opportunity to be heard. the regular agenda of the council is completed and the council's time is used efficiently. Meetings of the council should be conducted in a professional, businesslike, and civil manner. If there's any call outs or any disruption in the meeting, I will ask you to leave.

You will get a warning first. I'll take the first warning. You're the worst mayor the city's ever. Was that a warning? Okay. Yes, that was a warning. Now, I'm going to do an opening statement real quick.

As the mayor of Orange City, I find it necessary to address the recent actions and allegations that have emerged from certain community members. It has become evident that a small group fueled by negativity and misinformation has launched what can only be described as a witch hunt against me. Their motives appear to stem from my commitment to fulfilling my responsibilities, which has led to an alarming atmosphere of hostility and harassment. I have faced relentless cyber bullying on social media platforms where false claims and defamatory images have been circulated. The behavior not only undermines my character, but it also disrupts the progress of our city. The individuals involved have resorted to dangerous actions, including stalking, harassing me on the road, which is unacceptable. Most disturbingly, these community members have made unfounded allegations against me, including claims that my home is unsafe for my stepchildren. I want to clearly state that these accusations are baseless. The Department of Children and Families is currently investigating this claim and I am confident that the truth will prevail. I would like to address the racist allegations. I judge people by their character, not their color. I believe all people should be treated equal and fair. This personal conversation between the former vice mayor and myself was a private conversation on a personal Facebook Facebook messenger that somehow was released in the hands of the public. Don't know how that happened. This will be investigated as well. Accusations from the public that 70% of our employees resigned because of me. I have

a report in front of me from the city manager today and I just want to go over a couple things real quick about that so that I can verify that that's not true. I have two here from Rebecca Balstro which was in the city clerk's office and Emily Toruro from development services. Those are the only ones that were provided earlier that I could go through before I got the rest from the uh interim city manager. She reported the rest of them that she could give to me in a short period of time. But if I go down the list, it looks like we have retired. We have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine people that were terminated. Some are from the fire department. Some are from the PD, other other departments. I have nothing to do with that, okay? I don't even talk to those people hardly ever. Then we have people that retired. When I came into mayor, we had at least five people that retired from their position because they put in their 30 years or more. So when when you say these accusations, whoever is saying it, that I have 70% that were gone because of me, I can prove that's not true. It is disheartening to see how this intimidation campaign has affected my nonprofit, Backpack Buddies, which serves thousands in our community. The attempts to undermine the organization direct I'll start over.

It is disheartening to see how the intimidation campaign has affected my nonprofit, Backpack Buddies, which serves thousands in our community. The attempts to undermine this organization directly hurt the children and families who re rely on these services. I'll say it again. These families and children rely on these services. I urge you're not the only out of here, please. Chief,

I urge those who are involved to consider the broader impact of their actions and leave backpack buddies out of it. I would like to address the allegations made regarding the performance of our city clerk, Kaylee Berles, during our special meeting on November 21st, 2025. I did not respond to any of those comments at that time because our council rules dictate that we focus on the agenda at hand only. By law, we are only there to discuss a subject at the meeting that was called for, which was the performance of the city clerk. Public comment is a first amendment right and was heard. It would be out of order for me to defend accusations about myself during that meeting. Therefore, that is why I re I refrained from con uh commenting on this issue that evening. Unfortunately, the meeting devolved into chaos, detracting us from ability to conduct our city business effectively. It's my duty as mayor to maintain order and decorum during these meetings, and I will continue to uphold that responsibility. There are accusations that I'm acting as a tyrant when in fact I'm following procedures and rules of this council and as your chairperson I'm doing my job. In conclusion, I will not be resigning. I stand firm against the campaign of harassment.

You'll be removed. In conclusion, I will not be resigning and I stand firm against the campaign of harassment and intimidation. My commitment to serving the residents of Arm City is unwavering and I will not be deterred. Together we can overcome these challenges and focus on the progress of that the city deserves. Thank you. That's your warning. You're not allowed to speak out of the audience. If you'd like to fill out a form to speak. Okay. Thank you.

That's enough. Thank you. Okay, Chief. Chief, yellow and the white in the front, please. She's disrupting the meeting.

Can I get someone to remove her, please? Yes. Right here with the yellow and white. I'm sorry. She is not allowed to ask questions from the audience. She has to wait till public comment and she's disrupting the meeting. Thank you.

City attorney receive a warning. H was she warned? Yes. So what? What? I would like to apologize for this disruption and request that I please as a citizen of this community be allowed to stay. I have three minutes worth of comments that are very pertinent to me and my community. Okay, I will accept that. Just no more calling out, please. Thank you.

Just want to get through city business here. Okay.

Next. Sure. Okay.

Okay. Um Mr. Waters, would you read your letter into the record, please? Uh certainly, Madame Mayor, we have a public um comment from Sherry Thompson, 389 East Blue Springs Avenue, Orange City, Florida 32763. Dear Mayor Marks and members of the Orange City Council, I am writing to you today as a concerned resident of Orange City who has witnessed troubling behavior by our new mayor, Kelly Marx, and her treatment of Councilwoman Lisa Stafford and citizen Sharon Stafford, particularly the disrespectful and deeply offensive remark referring to them as ghetto fabulous. This is not only unbecoming leadership, but it carries a disturbing racial undertone that has no place in our city government. It is shocking and hurtful that Mayor Marks would use such derogatory phrase in reference to Councilwoman Stafford and Sharon Stafford. Referring to an African-American council woman as ghetto is not just ignorant. It is coded racially charged insult that per perpetuates, excuse me, harmful stereotypes about black people and lowincome neighborhoods. What is even more alarming is not just the language itself, but the context of these remarks came from a city device or platform. That means that our city's very resources are being used in a way that seems to endorse or at least tolerate such racially insensitive language from the highest office in the city. Coupled with similar undertones from other officials, including Councilman Alex Tamson, it suggests a pattern, not just a slip of the tongue. I cannot believe this is still happening in 2025. When it comes to Councilwoman

Stafford, her legacy stands as a model of dedication, service, and bridging communities. She was the first elected African-American to serve on the Orange City Council, a trailblazer who whose presence matters deeply in ensuring representation and equity in our city. Her role is not symbolic, it is transformational. Councilwoman Stafford is an active and generous member of our community. She is part of the Rotary Club, contributing her time and effort to community service. She is involved with the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, helping to build economic opportunities across diverse cultural lines. She has consistently shown a willingness to help everyone regardless of which neighborhood they live in. Whether on the west or east side of Orange City, she is there extending a helping hand. While our mayor Marks bashes Sharon Stafford, CEO of the nonprofit Everybody is Somebody and Organization, Sharon has committed herself to uplift uplifting unprivileged youth, offering them guidance, opportunity, hope. Sharon's work is not a profession. It is a calling rooted compassion and sincere desire to make a difference in the lives of young people who need it most. Now, let us speak on governance and stability with a call for accountability. It is particularly concerning that this is not the first crisis under Mayor Marks. Reports indicate that the city manager has already resigned and now there is pressure on the city clerk. This revolving door and key administrative positions threatens the stability and functionality of our government. When leadership is undermined by disrespect, bias or hostility, it jeopardizes not just relationships but the effective running of city services. leaders hold power not just because they are elected but because they are trusted to act with integrity

and to lift all members of the community. When that trust is broken, especially through racially charged insults and organizational turmoil, it calls into question the very legitimate legitimacy of their role. Madame Mayor, that was the one and only written public comment. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, moving on. We're going to do something positive now. We're uh going to do uh 2 a positive resign

2A presentations and proclamations. Uh West Valuchia Hospital Authority presentation. Stacy Tibo, administrator, West Balicia Hospital Authority, presenting. Thank you. Hello.

Good evening. Um, I wanted to come and speak to you uh about our program at West Felia Hospital Authority and to make the community aware. So, I'm glad that there's a good turnout tonight. So, all of you um who didn't know about this program can spread the word. I've given brochures to the city manager for the health card program and this is open to all residents that live in West Felia County. So the hospital authority was created in the 50s. They used to own the hospital in Dan which is now Advent Health Dan on West Plymouth and it was created just for the purpose of providing access to health care for indigent residents of the district. So if you live Orange City, Deberry, Deltona, Delean, Pearson, Ostein, um, Seville, that is all West Felicia County. If you fit into a certain income uh 150% of the federal poverty level and you are a resident and you have been denied Medicaid, you have no health insurance, then the health card program can provide you with access to health care. So, this is funded by property taxes by people that live in the district. Uh, I live in Orange City, so I pay into this, too. All of you do that live in Orange City. I think most of you do that are here. So, um, the military is 0.9897. So, all of our revenue comes from um tax taxpayers. It goes directly to health care. I'm the sole employee of the hospital authority. We have five commissioners. And I should have said

this at the beginning. I sent an email this morning. Commissioner Ford was looking forward to coming and meeting you because he lives in Orange City also. He had a medical emergency in his family last night.

So, I'm here um presenting on his behalf. So, we don't own a hospital any longer. As you know, Advent Health owns the Dam property. The only property that's owned by the hospital authority is a building that it serves as um primary healthc care clinic on Plymouth and there's also one in Justin Square in Deltona only serving health card members. Once residents can qualify for the program, they go to the primary care clinic. Those visits are free. There are generic medications that are also free. It does cover with a co-pay uh emergency room visits or hospitalization and it kind of bridges the gap. Um and we try to keep the people going to the clinic or urgent care instead of going to the ER because that is very expensive. And with all the changes, I'm sure that everybody is aware of the Affordable Care Act subsidies um going away at the end of this month. I feel like there are probably going to be a lot more people in need of this program. So, um I don't process the applications. We use the house next door who has locations in the land. They used to be in Deltona. close that office. Um, so people can go on our website to start their application or they can call the house next door, the brochures that I left with staff, tell you how you can qualify. If anybody here in the room is interested or you have family or friends, please let them know. Um, there are other services aside from

the primary care clinic, ancillary services, for example. Uh there's funding that SMA Healthcare receives for the Baker Act program, emergency behavioral services, uh outpatient psychiatric evaluation. There's a residency program for um men in deand that's also funded. Um mental health counseling through the house next door. And then there's also a new agency called Lifespire Counseling or Community Services. It's in Deltona. Also, that's available to anybody that has a health card. An important thing I left out, dental care. Um, over here on Harley Strickland, the health department dental program is located there. So, anybody that has a health card can receive basic dental services. Um, things like uh simple extractions or cleanings or fillings, those type of things. Nothing like a root canal or anything major, but at least it's some dental um because, you know, when we buy our health care plan, somehow dental isn't ever included in that. So, it leaves people um needing that service. Um there's also another program through rising against all odds for HIV testing and counseling. They've been in delay for a long time. They also help uh us with qualifying patients or program participants especially the homeless population. And I quickly went through everything that I included in my PowerPoint. So if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Any questions from the council? No. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. Thank you.

Okay, we have a lot of public comment tonight. I was going to make a suggestion if someone wanted to make a motion to go to two minutes instead of three minutes so we can get through our city business. So we can get through city business and we're not here all night.

Does anybody want to make a motion for that? No. Okay. Just want to give you that option. Leave it. Okay. Holding the three. Okay. Okay. We're going to start citizens comments. We're going to start with uh Christine Gonzalez. Please state your name and address for the record.

Good evening, council. My name is Christine Gonzalez. I live at 470 Redwood Avenue in Orange City. Um, I just wanted to take the time to address um our mayor's uh behavior and uh her actions as of late. I want to start by saying I first met you, Miss Mayor, when you were president of the VIA. At that time, I didn't really get to know you. It was towards the end of your presidency there. I found you to be incredibly unprofessional in your behavior, in your speech to the point and very disorganized to the point where I almost left. I almost left because this is not something that I wanted to associate myself with. Since you have left, happily I can say things have gotten a lot better. Things have gotten a lot better. Our club itself was able to unite better. uh we were actually able to even bridge uh the gap between another club that you have perpetually spoken ill against or ill about. I have witnessed this multiple times. Um following with that leading up to your running for mayor, your behavior, how you spoke of others was very unbecoming and once again very unprofessional. Um, and I felt if I didn't know you at all or even knowing you a little bit, I never would have voted for you, not once, because this is not how I would want my city to be represented at all. Um, with all of that being said, how you treat people in your personal life reflects how you treat people in your professional life. with it what's went on on our last uh meeting. I believe a lot of it to be true because I've seen how you act when you're not up on this dis and it is not something that anybody would hope to have representing them. You accuse our clerk of you know putting

a divide in our city and being negative in our city when you in fact have done exactly that. And the voices of our city has loudly exclaimed that leading up to that council meeting, including that council meeting and since then. And because of all of that, honestly, you are doing our city a great disservice by being a mayor and representing us. And for that reason, I think you should reconsider resigning your position as mayor. Brena Dom. Brena Dom, 460 Buford Avenue. I am here still and will continue to be here with the great people of Orange City until you, Kelly Marks, are not. Although I live in unincorporated Orange City, my address still says Orange City. So whatever happens in this town affects me, my family, and my business. But ultimately, I am here because I care. Because you still sit in that seat tonight. You obviously do not care about our town or what you have single-handedly done to it and have no interest in healing the wounds or taking accountability, just creating more chaos. I have seen the destruction and turmoil with my own

eyes that you have caused with no regard for anyone for but yourself. I have seen and experienced you lie, manipulate, and use your position to to infiltrate people at their weakest moments when they are the most vulnerable. and getting them to think you are an upstanding citizen and their friend and that you have their best interests in mind when all along it's all to benefit of you. Anyone to question or call you out on your BS instantly becomes public enemy number one with a slew of lies and gossip to try to discredit their character or shun a community organization. even the ones that have supported and loved this community since some of us before some of us have been alive and one that has been on this planet and is older than anybody on this whole planet. Um, and then you eat them up and then you simply move on to the next. Well, you can only fool people for so long before they see your true colors. Let me give you some words of advice. The good things that you do do not make up for the bad and every person in life should not be transactional. Although your actions seem to contradict contradict this in every way. Therefore, I once again demand the resignation of Kellyanne Marx for mayor and demand a public apology to us all. It is absolutely the least thing you could do. And as you can see, this community is not going to be silenced against injustice, manipulation, and abuse of power to our people in Orange City. Whereas other might others might cower or be afraid of repercussions, you may want to reconsider your position because we are not those people. To the fact that the citizens are willing to sacrifice time, efforts, and even themselves to do what is right, and

these are the people we will support. We can do this the easy way or the hard way, but we the people will do everything in our power to stop your self-s serving reign of degression, suppression, and destruction of our home of our own city. Thank you, King Redu. Did I say that right? State your name and address for the record, please.

Um, I'm King Redell. Um, I live on 478 South Orange Avenue. If you don't, if you don't mind, I if I can just say this. Um, the main thing I can't do is just watch people disrespect. And as a child, I reflect off of that, but I'm so sorry. I I reflect off of that, but I'm a smart child and I know how to reflect off the good things and not the bad things. And you know, just calling out on people that that's not the answer. You know, all the disrespect can just go out in the community, you know, and it's funny how a child has to say this. 11year-old child has to come up here and just take the time and just say this. It's funny how people want to disrespect people, but you there's no reason to disrespect the mayor. You know, as a mayor, I know how it feels cuz you have to work and do all of this, but you you don't have to disrespect nobody like that. Because

you have to you have to you have to treat people the way you want to be treated. Showing empathy and showing respect to others. You can't come inside a community and just disrespect the mayor even though you don't even know nothing about her. So you you you can't just disrespect somebody like that. And as a child, there's no way as a child 11 year old will have to come up here and say this. So for everybody that's that that disrespect the mayor and stuff, I would just like to say you you at least have to take everything back.

I like showing got the floor back. Kings got the floor, please. Thank you. Excuse me. Who is saying that? Guy in the back right here. Warn warning one, please. We're going to have to remove you. I don't want to do that, but please let him finish. Go ahead. So, again, I like showing people empathy and just not yelling because as a as a young person or a young man, they shouldn't show respect or empathy or integrity. So, for the disrespect of it. Excuse me, sir. Uhuh.

Can we continue, please? Go ahead.

So, for all of that, you you can't come in a community and just start talking trash and when you don't know about it. So, I came up here to just say all the disrespect, you can just go. You you can you you can just go cuz I don't like watching people argue with people or cussing at people or seeing people get arrested. Even our community doesn't like seeing that. For our community, we came to show our community that we can treat people the same people we can be treated and we can rise up. And I know I don't have enough time, but thank you for saying that. Thank you. Thank you, young man. You have more maturity than a lot of people I've seen.

Okay, Leah Brooks. This one's about staff turnover.

Good morning. Leah Brooks, 313 West French. Orange City is a vibrant community, much to offer. Up until previously, it was moving towards a very positive direction. Mil Lake, the downtown bike paths. During the last six months, I've heard none of these things. The city is divided, little cohesiveness, and we've lost 60 to 70% of our city employees. As a personal friend of Kelly, who once was, I knew of some of her struggles with city employees. But during a lunchon with several ladies, Kelly announced that she had plans to get rid of Dale Arrington. I looked around at my friends and their faces were shocked. This was a woman who was competently running the city and had for years. I'd assumed Kelly, when she became mayor, would take the opportunity to learn, to gain knowledge and wisdom, things that she would need to be a competent mayor. However, I brushed it up, feeling like it was just a moment of frustration. How foolish of me. In April of this year, I was at Dickinson Park with another group of people, Kelly included. City manager Dale Arrington began to walk toward us. Kelly looked at me with an angry face, and said, "Fucking Dale. I [ __ ] hate Dale. She needs to go, and so does Christine." I said, "Christine Davis, why?" And she said, "She's just another Dale." Then she turned, put a smile on her face, walked over to Dale, and gave Dale a hug. In between those times, Kelly complained multiple times about Maddie, the PI. And then she turned on Kaye. It was now time for Kaylee to go. The reason? Because Kaye went outside and smoked. She wasn't in her office enough. With the level of stress on that business building, I would have been outside smoking, too. And I don't even smoke. I have Kayle's performance reviews from the previous two years here. Mayor Marks gave her all outstanding marks. In her closing comments, she wrote, "I believe Kaylee to be outstanding at her position. She goes above and beyond in her duties, always willing to help. She manages the clerk's office with efficiency. I find it astounding that you called for a special meeting simply because you didn't like Kay's response to your

request for custom meals. At the special meeting that was called to discuss the performance of the city clerk, Councilwoman Tiamson read a prepared statement and made a motion to terminate Kelly's employment. How did Councilwoman Thompson know that the mayor had intended to fire Kaye? It had not been announced. It was not a meeting to fire Kaye. It had not been announced yet. Tamson had a statement prepared and written. Someone needs to look into this. This is a Sunshine Law violation and evidence of council collusion. Here's the thing. If this evidence continues, it will cost the city a hell of a lot of money. Retaliation directed at city employees from public officials is serious. If you continue what you're doing, you're authorized the city to get out their checkbook and write a big fat check to Kaye and whoever else you are abusing you. Miss Marks, I'm calling for your immediate resignation for the good of this city. Let's get back on track. Thank you,

Mark Dickinson. Mark Dixon, did you call my name there? That's great. Thank you so much. Um, I did get a a I did get a a public records request today. Uh, and I also did an interview and I spoke to a council woman over here and she admitted to I guess it would be multiple calls. No text messages, she said to me. No text messages, but calls. And that was from you to her. Now, I did get those records. There is, in fact, two calls here, but I think I'm missing probably a lot of them. And I hope you weren't lying to me when you said there was only two because in this message, these text messages I got in a public record, it says call. And it's not one of those dates that you listed as workrelated. There's also something in here. We talked about city business. when you asked her that she probably should resign due to a mental health issue. Did you do that?

I think it's in this text message. It's a public record here that I was that I received. That sounds like it's talking about, you know, city business. Uh, yes. Tomorrow at 11 a.m. the Hispanic Chamber Celebration. I saw you were going, not going. I figure you're working. These are on personal cell phones bypassing what would be archived by the city clerk. There's a bunch of them here. If you come to me, I'll give them to you. Uh, here's another one. Can I ride with you? The AC isn't working in my truck. You guys just sit quietly in that truck when you rode. Minute 26. Good. The last one that I'm really looking at that I'm wondering here again is that call your husband, the husband of a council member, came up here and testified that he had I don't know where where he is, but he's back here. He testified that he heard things that he shouldn't have and there are laws for that. I think that was the that was the quote there. So, what I'm wondering Oh, you know what else I was wondering? I was wondering when you came out here today, if you want to clear some air and say, "Look up my past with all the charges that are dropped." If you want to bring that up to me like that, put it out there. I got 99 problems and you're not one of them. Do you want to talk about my past right now?

You got 43 minutes. That's a question for you. You can answer that or not. I'll bring it up. You want to bring Do you want to talk about the past? So, with all these text messages that are on here and with the other councilman telling me that there was never any text messages, never any text messages. Never any text messages. There sure is a lot of text messages up here that were done on your personal cell phones. I think this is what this is. Kayla can answer that. Maybe she fulfilled the public record. Are these work phones? Are these cell phones? Are these are these are these uh work or private? She's not allowed to answer. I'm not talking to you. I'm sorry. I'm the chair and she's not allowed. Okay. I'm not talking to you. You can you can let me have my talking to the council.

You can tell let me have my seconds there because I'm not talking to you. She doesn't have to answer. She knows the rules. I'm addressing the council if you continue on. So resign. Stop interrupting me and resign. Thank you. Stephen Sanders. Oh, he's not in here. He's been removed. He's been removed. You've been removed from the meeting, sir. Council meeting one of these officers want to escort me out please.

I'll escort myself. Don't worry. Thank you. Okay, moving on. Ryan Thompson.

Good evening. Um, state your name and address for this. Ryan Thompson, 389 East Blue Spring Avenue, Orange City, Florida 32763. Just so we're clear. Uh, I am Lisa Stafford's son-in-law, so there's no guessing. Please address the council. Let's just I'm sorry. You know, I'll just look at you. I'm sorry. That's fine. It's just right. That's our rules. You have to address the council.

Now, we we can all you guys can all test. I've never spoke at a city single city council meeting. I might have been to one or two city council meetings all together. Um, I was moved to come speak tonight due to your behavior over the last month or so. Um, I don't know you. I don't even think I've ever met you, but from what I have seen online and from what I have seen from screenshots that I guess are hoax because you claim they're not true, but everybody in here has seen them. Um, it's very disturbing and unconscionable behavior on your part. Um, you are doing a disservice to this city by continuing to stay in your role. You really need to take everybody's recommendation and consider resigning. Um, I I do want to remind you that there are other avenues to have you removed that people are already working on and that it would be a lot more embarrassing for you to be removed than to do the only honorable thing you have left to do and resign. And that's I I'm just I'm asking you for this city, for everybody here tonight, for everybody that's going to probably keep on coming.

Yes. you probably need to just go ahead and do the only honorable thing left and resign your position. And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Christopher Petri, did I say that right? Christopher Petri. Petri Petri. Do we have anybody across the way? Okay, thank you.

I would go to the next one. Yeah, there's a two minute delay. Okay, all right. Let's see. Um,

what's that? Miss, is it Miss Miss Williams? Looks like an S. Scheler Williams. Did I say that right? Okay, got it. We'll put him next.

Good evening audience, everyone. Council members, my name is Skyler Williams and Skyler Skyler and I'm from Dand. I apologize. Oh, that's fine. Everyone says Schuler. My name is Skyler Williams. I'm from Dand and I am not here to my comments are not addressed to you madame mayor although some are about you. My comments are addressed to um I believe the name is pronounced Timson.

I'm not sure which one you are but I was very disturbed at the last meeting when I was reviewing the last meeting about some of the things you stated about um Miss Berles. You said that Miss Berlesome's behavior was inappropriate toward the council, but her behavior was first of all not toward the counselor, nor were her allegations. They were in fact only toward the mayor. And they don't reflect on this council as a whole body, but you made the statement as if it did. And when you made that move or that motion to fire Miss Bergen after speaking have having all of your community get up here and speak in objection to the termination of this wonderful person with the wonderful personality that defends everyone. Your whole community wanted her there but yet and still you would made the move to fire her supporting only the man only the mayor only one that wanted her fired. But you did not support your community who's telling you that your mayor's power hungry and vict vindictive. You went on to praise the mayor and voted to fire a stellar person with a stellar character employment record. You also cited that you have a lack of confidence and trust in the city clerk and that there was no prospect for reconciliation, which is what the community keeps saying about the mayor. Yet and still you continue to support the mayor rather than supporting the stellar young lady with a stellar background that everybody says the same thing about. You accused her of sharing private messages that caused chaos. Her sharing the messages did not cause chaos. The chaos was caused by the mayor writing them in your husband. But you never once said anything about what they created, the chaos they created, but you blamed her for being the person that caused it. But I don't understand why you would continue to bash her but not blame the actual two people that are being held accountable that are that are accountable. You lectured her when you

were speaking on what was not the desired characteristic characteristic of a public employee or a public in official rather. But yet your husband and the mayor all the documentation that has been read shows that they are not do not have any characters that should be of a person not to mention a public official. And most importantly for me, you have never addressed your husband's statement about two of the finest citizens, the Statford, calling them ghetto girls. I think that's because you probably agree with him. Thank you, FOLKS.

CHRISTINE, did we get in touch with them or No, no, there's nobody over there. There's nobody over there. Okay, I'll leave that for last. Okay, Carrie. Carrie Donaway.

Good evening. Thank you, council. You could just state your name and address for the record, please.

Yes. My name is Carrie Donaway. I have a cold and a uh impaired speaking situation here, so my apologies. I live at 347 West University, which is part of the historic district of our great Orange City. Um, I've been here about 25 years. I chose Orange City, unlike the wonderful Stafford family who's been here generationally. Uh, but I did choose Orange City. I chose it. I plan to retire here and one day I'll be buried here, which a lot of our citizens will. So, it's very important to me what happens in my city. So, I took a few notes down um just so I could stay on track. My exposure to Orange City government is modest but meaningful. I spent several years on the historic preservation preservation board back when Gary Blair was mayor sometime in that period. I've attended planning meetings, council meetings, workshops, special events, and more than a few volunteer opportunities with a lot of sweating involved. Most of the staffers were there as well too. During those years, I did gain a perspective on how this city works. But more importantly today, how it should be working. Tonight I want to speak specifically about the recall situation invol involving Mayor Marks. So first and foremost community, I had to look this up. Thank you chat GPT. What does the council do? The single most important role of a council member and especially especially their leader, the mayor, is the relationship they maintain with Orange City's professional

staff. Without that relationship, nothing works, nothing moves, nothing gets done. The council does have enormous responsibilities. Too few to list. Too many to list. But I took and plucked out a few of the most important ones for me. 29 million. Please, please address the council. I'm sorry. That's just

29 mill. You guys are aware of this. 29 million on our budget. So you guys are responsible for looking at that and making decisions accordingly. Setting utility rates and fees, passing laws through ordinances and resolutions, approving major contracts and capital projects. Just got started. Um anyway, so for context, I want to talk about the staff very quickly. The staff are professionals. They deserve to be treated professionally. If we look at the average staff annual compensation is 54,000 with leadership roles as much as $120,000 annually to $170,000 verse our lovely council and thank you for what you do. But your compensation is between 14 and 16,000.

Time's up. Can you finish up real quick? Yes, I can. That brings me to my deepest concern and I sure do wish I had more time. I wish I had your five minutes. Just saying.

I am a full-time resident. I work. I live my life. I don't have the time to do this or the energy, but I expect at the very least from my council, professionalism, respect, and the basic competence to do this job. I need you to display what our fantastic Orange City staff does on a daily basis. You're not hitting the mark, council. And I believe this is due to your mayor. We need to recall her. She's not going to quit. She's not going to resign. We must recall this mayor. Thank you,

Mark Glover. I don't know to say. Uhoh. Yeah. My granddaddy was an AM preacher, but

no, you ain't going you ain't gonna get one. You ain't gonna get one. Uh good evening council and and citizens of Orange of Orange City. Uh my name is Mark Glover and um I'm coming from uh from Orlando uh 121 uh South Orange Avenue, Sweet 1500 and I'm representing um an opportunity and I'd like to be considered uh as a new business uh at an upcoming technical review uh forum that will be on December 16th. Uh that that's uh next Tuesday, I believe. uh to follow up with an email. And I think Paul, you've been communicating with um some of our colleagues with Merlin uh Merlin Law Group. Um the uh city of Orange um Orange the city of Orange City. Say that five times. Um has an opportunity to recover possibly some funds from um the most recent hurricane. And we talked about this uh with several of the council members. And we basically have um issued a uh uh an opportunity and we spoke with the uh with the interim uh city manager uh and some others. Um and we'd like to be put into that in into that mix and we'd like to be able to receive some support in order to fully investigate some opportunities. We heard about some of the uh some of the uh economic challenges and and some of the things that you all were looking at uh for um to be able to support some of the nonprofits and other things. Manity uh parade and uh this could be an opportunity for you all to receive some additional funds uh that you're due. uh you've paid your uh insurance premiums and there are some things that the typical maintenance folks and engineers that are here in the city, no disrespect to anybody, um but um this is what we do. We've recovered billions of dollars.

We represent the entirety of the US Virgin Islands government after two cat 5 hurricanes and we'd like to be able to um have uh an opportunity to be considered um with the uh with the com with the um contract that was uh submitted to Paul and his team. Okay. Thank you. Less than le less less than a Baptist preacher. Great job,

Sharon Stafford. You're going to have to Good afternoon,

Sharon Stafford, Arn City. And everybody know I always say I'm passionate about the city of Arn City. And the reason I stand here today is because I was a topic of eating food that taxpayers money paid for or it caused a lot of controversy about me eating something that our taxpayer dollars paid for. And with that being said, I want to let everyone know that my compassion is still for the city of Iran City. So I have taken it upon myself knowing that all our council have to be here for two and three meetings at a time. So I have taken upon myself to provide each one of you all with snacks with with snacks. So that our that's and remember that's not taxpayers money that's my money.

Daryl B. Victor Good evening. I'm gonna raise this if I can. Um, I have a presentation. I was supposed to ask if it can be put up on the board. Oh, can I just hold my time because I have a handout as well. I don't want that to eat into my time. Just hold his time and until the presentation, please. I put it to give the clerk for you already have it. Okay. She should already have it. And just once it's all passed out and the presentation is within your packet. So I don't know if you want to take it out or if I should present you just instruct me on what I should do.

You can present. We can look at it. It would be up to you and the council whether or not you would allow him to present. I mean you have three minutes. Yeah. You can do it in three minutes. Yes. Absolutely. If you want to come back at another time and be on the agenda, we can absolutely give you more time. But It's not on the agenda. So, all right. Thank you.

Thank you very much. My name is Daryl Victor. I live at 244 North Levit Avenue, known as the Thompson Bugala Bungalow Bungalow. I want to thank the council and the mayor for allowing me to present. I know I have less than three minutes, so I'm going to have to go through this proposal very quickly. Um, but I'd like to mention that um this proposal about the Levit gun special historic district involves uh the Levit family, especially a man named Woolsey Levit, who is a founding father of this city and he cast the deciding vote to name this city Orange City. There is no controversy. We've seen the original documents. They do exist. Um, this family is abolitionists. They were deeply religious and they believed in this city. This reason uh I'm bringing this uh proposal to the city is to conserve, protect and promote the natural beauty and the historical importance of Orange City and promote a positive legacy for the people and its children and the future. Could we go to slide one, please? This proposal is to designate Levit Avenue from Graves to University as the Levit Gun Historic District. For right now, I'd like it to be, if possible, an Orange City special designation only. I know it gets a little complicated with these historic districts. Right now, I'm asking for a special designation if possible. completion date is by 1018 of 2026 which is the 150th year of the deed signature date. We have proof of that because I have seen the son of William Walssey. I'm running out of time. His his diaries. I have his diaries. I don't have his diaries. I've had access to his diaries and we know the exact date he's

signed the deeds. We're gonna se we'd like to celebrate the Levit family and the gun family who I'll go into Abigail Gun and we would like to invite if possible the Washington Connecticut community to join. The Washington Connecticut is our sister community and they are deeply involved in this and I'll get to it why they are. The cost to the taxpayers right now is $0 and0 which is good news for the community. Next slide please. Okay. On this street that I'm talking about, there are um the three historically important homes. 200 Levit Avenue, which was known um as Pioneer Cottage and Whisket. Uh we have proof on that. The that is the original homestead. Uh I am running out of time. Uh of the Levit family. 209 is the Gunnery and 244 is Thompson Bungalow. Next slide, please. And this is what they were doing. I'm I'm out of time. I apologize. Keep

going. You got I'll give you a few minutes. Thank you. This is about our history. I agree. I'm good.

What was going on is um you'll see a hand drawing to the left. That is a reproduction of uh of Washington, Connecticut, where the Levit and the Gun family came from. And these are the existing structures on Levit Avenue. And what these families, these pioneer families were doing were reprodu reproducing their community of abolitionists and freedom fighters who brought who thought of women's equality and equal rights for all here into Orange City. And these are the existing structures. I live on the one on the bottom so everybody knows. Next slide, please. These are the Levits. These are your ancestors. On the bottom is Abigail Gunn, who I have yet to discuss. Abigail Gunn is historically important for American history um for many reasons. If anybody has ever sent a child or any of you have ever gone to summer camp, her and her husband invented the idea of summer camp. She's also a major abolitionist in American history. She also there's a picture of a baseball game on the bottom that was taken at her school called the Gunnery in Washington, Connecticut, which still exists. It was the first school to allow all people, no matter of race, creed, color, or sex to attend, and they still allow that. Harriet Beecher Stow's children were the first to attend this school. That is the oldest picture of a baseball game in action, and it was featured in Ken Burns baseball documentary. So Levit, Orange City and Levit Avenue. Levit Avenue, by the way, is one of the most important roads. It was the first road, not 1792, to connect Orange City into land. I am asking the council respectfully that we protect the natural beauty of that road and that we find a way to keep progress

away from this area and to protect this natural heritage. I have so much more. I apologize. Thank you. YEAH. OKAY. LEAH BROOKS,

different subject.

For the record, this is a different subject. Leah Brooks, 313 West Friend, October 2024, Hurricane Milton. Kellyanne Marks and Alex Tamson have a conversation on Facebook on the city Facebook page. Mark complains that Councilwoman Lisa Stafford has asked for cones for her street. Tamson replies, "Always thinking about herself." Mark's replies, "Her neighborhood, her city." They laugh. Tamson reveals that the city has asked him to present an NAAC award to Sharon Stafford. Jamson says, "Ridiculous. So ghetto." M. Mark says, "They won't ask me. Lol. They know better." Kelly shares three clearly racist memes. Two memes of black women when reading, "Honey, please. I'm a child of the ghetto." And the other, "Now everybody want to be ghetto." Fabulous. Ghetto. Does the word ghetto refer to Lisa Stafford, Sharon Stafford, or the whole black community of Orange City? Let's talk about the Staffords. Sharon Stafford is the CEO and visionary of Everybody Is Somebody Incorporated. She's a board member of the African-American Museum of Arts, co-chair of the Valuchia Remembrance Coalition, member of the National Women Association, the Greater Dan Chamber of Commerce, and a resident of Orange City for 60 plus years and more. She is one of the first five black children to cross racial lines and attend them, the all-white Orange City Elementary School. Think about that. She won citizen of the quarter recently. How ghetto. Lisa Stafford, who spent three years serving our city as a council woman, is the first African-American elected and seated to serve on the Orange City Council. Thank you, Lisa. She is part of the Hispanic Chamber of the Rotary Board, a former member of the planning award, and has received multiple awards for her community service. How ghetto. I spoke with Sheila Rush, a resident who happens to be black and lives in Mrs. Stafford's neighborhood. In August,

Sheila's house burned down. The house and all of her possessions are a total loss. Her 5-year-old granddaughter lost her bike, scooter, and tablet. Miss Marks took a picture of herself with Miss Rush back when she was campaigning. They know each other. Naturally, I asked Mrs. Rush if Marks or backpack buddies had assisted her after the fire. After all, she has two warehouses full of household supplies to give to her residents and needs. Mrs. Rush replied, "Not a thing." Sheila, she's bareheaded the relief for another family whose house burned a month later. Remember the little girl who needed 50 teddy bears? Marks posted that all over social media. She collected household supplies for them. Sheila's response, "Were they black?" Marks called me last year and complained about a NAAC meeting she had attended on behalf of the city. She said, "I will never attend another one." How can Mayor Marks represent this community if she cannot represent all of the community, every member? How can we repair the damage that the mayor has done to our city? The Orange City Multicultural Festival is happening February 27th and 28th. This annual celebration fosters unity in the community. I want to ask the city and the council to join forces with our citizens and make this the best damn multiculture event that Orange City has ever had. Times up. I have flyers for anyone who wants one. We posting more information on Orange City proud. I'm ready to eat good food, have good conversations, and make good friends. Thank you. Yes, I am

for overgoing her time and and not listening to the chair. She needs to leave. Madame chair chair chair. Uh, I need to chair. May I speak? Not hold on one moment, then I'll let you speak. Okay. Can I speak to the officer, please?

I I did say a warning and I'm not going to do this. Okay. No. Well, that's the reason you can't hear it is because everybody keeps yelling out. I did say time. Your time's up. Leave. And she kept speaking. That's it. I'm not arguing with this. You know what? I'm going to call 15-minute recess. members.

Uh uh C chair, I had asked for a moment to speak. You told me to wait a minute.

Yeah. I'm I'm take if there's a recess. It's set. She ain't tell me she I don't know. She ain't tell me that. She ain't tell me that.

She ain't tell me that. Huh?

Oh, I know. I have 10 years. Are you You look so good. No pressure.

My goodness.

Okay. Are we still okay? Yeah. What? You told me. I know. I love working for you. I love working for you. I have no problems. I appreciate but just just over and over and over. We all know it's the same clicks. Whatever.

Did you knock in?

Here we go.

What does it say?

Yes. myself and the res and hopefully some of the members on the council. I think that you should give everyone fair opportunities that you give anyone anyone. Everyone everybody is supposed to have the right to speak to all that they get but a common courtesy for extending that time and to try to have someone out of the meeting because they extended their time right unprofessional and it's not right. It's not RIGHT and the council woman here always say but you know what people how can you not have some type of emotion not Okay,

we're just trying to get through the meeting.

Leah Brooks. Okay, just making sure. Okay, we're trying to get through the meeting. We still haven't gone through our city business yet because of all this and

excuse me. Excuse me. You have to address the chair first. Go ahead.

It's important that we get through our meeting and that we accomplish something. We have been on hold. We have been held hostage for over 12 months now. It's time for us to go ahead on the side taking care of some business of the city and not tie our staff down with stuff that's not really pertaining to city business. We have storm water. We have taxes increase on our We have a lot of stuff going on with our residents that we need to be prepared for when something bad happens in this city. And with all this unnecessary foolishness that doesn't really matter, all this vindictiveness, all this other stuff, it's time for us to move forward. It's time for us to take care of our residents and our city.

Okay, thank you. Okay, we're going to move on to Robert Rolc and my name is Robert Rolak and I'm 117 Sweet Birch Lane. I am in the land. Three words I like to start out with. Please address the council.

Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. Here we go. How's this? Excuse me, council and chairwoman. Uh, three words. One is sorry. The other one is apology and then forgiveness. If we can get through that today, no matter where we are on the the spectrum, we get through that today, we're going to make it. So, what brings me here? I work with Stafford's sister. Is that your sister, Sharon? Sharon.

I've worked with Sharon. I've worked with Kelly. Now, let me tell you how I met everybody. I'm a DJ. I was doing an event. This lady walks over and she says, "How do you like helping kids?" I said, "Okay." She said, "Well, we don't have any money to pay you. Is that okay?" I said, "I'm good with that." So, for six years, I've been doing the Backpack Buddies events. no money right out there in Veteran Park, but we do it because that's where our heart is. While I was doing it, Sharon came up to me and say, "Do you do private parties and stuff like that?" I said, "All depends. It's got to be legal." She says, "Oh, my sister's birthday." "Okay, do." So, I did a party for Sharon. Since then, I've done three multicultural events in Mil Lake Park for her. So, I've gotten to know both of these people on a on a on a on a level that other people don't. So, with that being done, I'm going to say this. We could tear each other down to the ground. We can beat each other up, but that's not going to make it better.

That's not going to make it better. We can call each other's name as much as we want to scream and shout to the top of your bars. It is not going to make things better. was going to make things better. Uh there was some Israelis, excuse me, warning.

Okay. There were some there were some Israeli uh uh uh generals and they were asked a question. If you could do anything differently, what would you do? The both of them said, I would have spoke to the enemy. Just think of that. Cuz if you speak to somebody, you'll find out that you're not that different and not that far apart. We are not that far apart. We have a communication problem more than we have a dual problem. We have communication. If we communicate with one another, we'll get this. And last but not least, none of us are innocent. We all got some baggage. Bury the baggage. Let's move on. Teresa Richardson. Hello, council member, members of the council. I know pretty much everybody. Nice to see you again. I'd just like to say that I have known Kelly for 17 years. I have known her before she decided to get into the political realm. And now I understand why I never will. Um, she has done everything from creating flea markets in various communities to backpack buddies and given her heart and soul into anything that she's put herself into, including everything in this community from everything that I have seen. I've gone to many events with her. uh League of Cities, Tallahassee most recently, though very unorganized, I should say.

Um we had very few minutes to present to senators and representatives for multiple millions of dollars for your community. And I saw you do that with grace and perseverance in a room full of people that wouldn't speak up in one of the places and you were the first to speak up and ask for for the funds and and the response that you received was well the decisions basic may be already made and you said I'm not accepting that we need what we need. Come see what we've got. Come to our community. Come to see where our fire department is working out of where our police officers are working out of. Um, but there was one thing that was in question while we were there. And apparently someone's attire that was present with us was in question. And I was the other person in that room to let you know that that is completely unfounded and completely false. Everything you've done was very professional. The way we've asked us to dress, the way you've looked and made sure that everything was proper, the way we spoke to anybody. Um, I just wanted to amongst everything just give you as your friend and friends of all of your your constituents my support and that's why I'm here today because I think regardless, you always need support and I just want you to know that I think you do a good job as a human being.

Thank you. Cynthia Pagenhale. Did I say that right? Pagan. Pagan. Pagan. Yes, we're fine. Please state your name and address for the record.

Hi, my name is uh Cynthia Pagan Hale. Um I am from Dan, Florida. So, I'm not from around here. I know a couple of you that are there. Miss Lisa Stafford. Um, so my name is Cynthia Pagan. I actually have a nonprofit that deals with not only domestic violence and human and sex trafficking, but also child abuse. Um, my biggest thing, the reason why I wanted to come up and talk was because we're representing our community. I'm biracial. So, I'm I'm representing not only the black community, but the Latino community. And my biggest thing is the way that our decorum has been here. Um, we still have to understand that we're human beings. We all make mistakes. That is truth. Um, but we also have to recognize that we're real people. And what really caused me to come up here to speak was the 11year-old. the 11 year old who got booed. The 11year-old who did get called ghetto. I come from the ghetto when I came from the United States from Puerto Rico. I lived in the worst part of the Bronx and then moved down here and bad part of Virginia, too. I worked with representatives. I worked with a couple of senators. And the thing about that is is that we have to recognize the way that we hold ourselves so that our city knows that, too. Um, you hear me? I don't yell. I don't scream. That's just not my thing. Um, but the people who sh the people that are dealing with the most issues in communities are us. The ones who have seen the worst of the worst in our communities. The ones who have seen how hard it is to get jobs. the ones who have seen that it's horrible to be, you

know, stereotyped as horrible names that I've been called. I know I have been called, Miss Lisa. You know that, too. And, you know, I was the one that wanted I was a co-chair of the women in the NAACP. And the fact of the matter is is that I wanted to make sure Miss Lisa Stafford got an award because she is representing our community, but I know both ends. She helps out a lot of children who are going through domestic violence. Miss Lisa, you represent our community very well, you know, and that's what I want people to understand who are here is that every single person here has children. Every single person here has husbands. Every single person here has gone through something in their lives. So, let's make sure that we realize how important these people are who are sitting here because they go home every day and they have to sleep and making sure that they do that is calmness. Okay, that's it. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Is Christopher Petri here by any chance? Just want to give less. No. Okay. And I have King again, but you've already come up, so I can't have you come up for the same subject, but we did enjoy it. Thank you.

Okay, that concludes public comment.

Sorry, there's somebody turned in for public He did. I think you're on an agenda item, sir. Okay, hold on one second.

Yeah, I have you under the agenda item for city manager recruitment, which is 8A. So, you would come up under that item unless you have something else besides that. Council,

what are we doing? Do do we have a slip? I have the slip here. It it says um city manager recruitment, right? And the conclusion of my statement was more comprehensive. Now, we we do have an agenda item about that. So, sir, did you want to speak during Madame Mayor? May I address this? Yes. Sir, did you want to speak during the agenda item or did you want to speak during public comment? Okay. Okay. Come on up.

Good evening, Madame Mayor, council members. My name is John McHugh. I reside at 760 East Lansdown Avenue, Orange City, Florida. I wish I could get up here and say how wonderful it is to see this level of citizen engagement in city business. Unfortunately, the reason citizens have packed the house at council meetings recently is not because of all good things happening. It's due to turmoil and chaos, excuse me, generated by some members of the council. For example, over the last few months, the council has sought to uh modify the city charter for no substantive reason or was there a hidden agenda. called a special meeting to terminate the city clerk on a Friday night, knowing the city clerk was on personal time to be with her alien mother and knowing that that would have left the city without a clerk or a deputy clerk, permanent deputy clerk. Thank you to those that voted against that. We continue to waste money and time on recruitment for a new city manager when a perfectly articulated letter from a very respected professional city manager recruiter. They are the council has also been responsible for a longtime city manager leaving. I don't know the motivations of some of them but I know one leaving their position early. Further, many senior leaders within the city government have left simply leaving a void. I don't know what their motives or why they left, but there's a void of institutional knowledge. Additionally, some members of the council have created what I would believe is an openly hostile work environment as I understand it based on my conversations with employees. That's a serious accusation that has a lot of legal connotation to it. So, I don't I don't throw it out without regard to that knowledge. There's been accusations of violations

of the sunshine law. accusations of violations of the Sunshine Law. Um there's been a destruction in the relationship between the staff and and a number of uh local community organizations that have a long history in this community. I've spoken to many residents recently as well as leaders in and out of neighboring communities and all have come to the same conclusion. Orange City is dysfunctional. That's your neighbors that believe that. Uh that now I recognize that some of you don't like the way things are going and I understand that. Uh when I first came to Orange City in 1999, we had a terrible reputation as a city government. The Orlando Sentinel had published columns, editorial columns that called us the mad d mad dog 2020 of city government. I'm afraid we're back at it. It's just terrible. what's happening to this community. You all are individual council members. You act as a group, but you act individually. That reflects on the Orange City residents. And right now, that light ain't shining all that good.

Thank you. Okay, that concludes the citizen comments section. We're moving on to four, the consent agenda. Madame Mayor, I'd like to make a motion to accept the consent agenda. We have a second. We have a motion. We have a second. Kaylee. Oh, sorry. Public comment for a consent agenda. Anybody? Seeing none, we'll bring it back for the vote. Yes.

Yes. Council member Sard. Yes. Council member Richardson. Yes. Darn. Yes. Yes. And the consent agenda passes unanimously. Moving on to five ordinances. First reading 5A. Ordinance number 688. Mr. Waters. Could you read that please?

Certainly. Madame Mayor, this is item number 5A, ordinance number 688, an ordinance of the city council of the city of Orange City, Florida, annexing plus or minus 18.9 acres of certain real property into the corporate limits of the city of Orange City, including all portions of the adjacent rightaways as described, located at 2412 South Felia Avenue. Parcel ID number 80015-0000-0000-3000 0 redefining the boundaries of the city of Orange City providing for assignment of council district repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict here with and providing for severability and providing for an effective date and madame mayor that was the first reading of the ordinance.

Thank you Joe Ruiz.

Thank you mayor. Joe Ruiz development services director. Uh good evening uh city council and respect members of the public. Uh so today as was read into the record ordinance number 688 um brought to you today um after a continuence um on July uh in July um back that is coming back to you all tonight. So I'll kind of get into the continuence and present the item as normal. Uh so today before you all is an annexation request uh which is a val voluntary annexation under uh Florida statute 171. It's approximately 18.9 acres of land and uh with its adjacent rightaways um essentially being Enterprise Road. It is located at 2412 South Valuchia, east of South Valuchia um and Avenue and west of Enterprise Road and approximately 500 uh feet south of their intersection. So, uh just south of that arrowhead that you see there where uh CSLO essentially lies. Uh the current zoning is county commercial uh or sorry the current future land use is county commercial and uh the applicant is uh proposing or I'm sorry and the zoning is B4 U county zoning. The applicant has submitted um applications at risk to change the future land use and the zoning to corresponding city designations as per our future land use uh element. And um that would require a small scale um plan comp plan amendment uh to city general commercial uh for consistency with adjacent uh property as is recommended in our future land use and by staff. Uh so before you um is this 18.99 acre property um as as you are familiar used to be known as the Big Lots Plaza or known as the Four Towns um shopping center. Uh essentially, uh Big Lots has vacated as we all know, right? They've had struggles and and filed for bankruptcy. Um and so, um the applicant

and the property owner are looking to annex into the city uh with desires and future plans which essentially are not uh the future plans are not relevant to the application tonight. Um however, that is um they do have intentions with the applications that they have submitted to staff. And so, uh the property that you see here is their existing parking lot. the building that is uh that is there and then their storm water retention area um which was built this plaza was built back in the 80s and I'll kind of get into the ins and outs of the property um and what is being proposed for annexation. Uh so when we look at annexation procedure and criteria under Florida statutes 171.044 it is very straightforward um criteria um and eligibility. Uh so essentially planning staff looks at these different criteria that are part of the the Florida statute. Um and essentially um is it eligible to annex into Orange City? Uh are the property boundaries of the property contiguous to our city boundary? Is the property compact? And also does it not create a enclave, right? So that we're not um sticking someone in an island that they don't have access to um their proper um municipality. So, um, on the list that you see here is a list of essentially what we go through, um, and evaluating and as far as public notices and things like that. So, number one, is it an uninorporated property? Is it within the unincorporated limits of Valuchia County? Check that that's checked off the box. Um, have the owners of the property, uh, which there are two entities that own the property, uh, have they issued authorization, um, to the applicant to apply? They have, right? We've checked that. and then we go into legal publication uh in the newspaper prior to ordinance adoption. So today's first reading wouldn't be adoption. However, uh we do follow um publication procedures to make sure that um it is

out there and that everyone is aware of what is happening and that we are having public hearing. Uh so the ordinance uh includes the legal description as well as a map um as well as the publication that that goes out and then we also have to uh issue certified mail copies of notice which our clerk has done uh to the Valuchia County uh city council at least 10 days prior to publication. So that is filed with their office that this hearing is occurring. Uh the county has reached out to me and told me they they believe this is a good idea um for the city to do um and they were happy to see this application. Um and then uh is it filed with the county? It's filed with the county clerk and department of state within seven days of adoption. Right. So if it were to move to second hearing and adoption, uh staff has seven days to file that with the state and proper entities. And then does the application as mentioned does not create an enclave and is compact which we have found it is eligible for voluntary annexation. So when we look at this property, typically annexations uh don't carry much to them. They're pretty straightforward for the most part. Um staff has worked um diligently with the with the applicant. Um I have not seen the applicant in the crowd, but I I do hope they are here today as as they anticipated this hearing to tonight. Uh so what staff uh wanted to do was present some pros and cons, right? We we provided a ven diagram as far as what are the the the commonalities uh with it staying in the unincorporated and then uh with annexation. what are we looking at? Right? And so, just to talk about commonalities, we've established it is eligible for annexation uh via Florida statutes 171.044. And also um currently with the county's guidelines, anything that sits within city's gateways, we don't have uh full authority for review, but we do get some leverage for review. Um they the county reaches out to us for our signage, for

our landscaping, for architectural. um because it is in our gateway, it's in it's in the city's entrance and viewshed. Uh the county's code does require that we we get a chance to right abide at that apple. Um the only thing with it is it doesn't allow us full leverage, right? We can't apply all of our standards because if it stood in the county, it would still be under the county standards. Uh so when we look at the pros and cons, uh there are definite pros when we look at our our current uh future land use elements. Uh policies 21 2.1.5 and goal 9. um they they are are pro annexation, right? To continue annexing properties within the designated planning area. Um if you talk to our fire chief, he will say I'm all for those policies um because truly um and we'll get into some details with it. Um right there is interlocal agreements with Felucia County um and the local um fire safety um departments and agencies where um the agency that is closest usually responds and a lot of times although this is not in our city limits um our our fire safety staff has to respond sometimes to this to this location. Um when we look at it from a potential tax revenue standpoint uh staff did provide a a tax revenue sheet within the packet for you all. Um, and coming into the city, the applicant would potentially we'd be the city would be looking at a $50,000 potential city tax revenue. Um, which would be uh come to us because currently they don't pay any city taxes uh property taxes that would come straight to the city essentially in their tax ro should they be annexed. Um, the other pro is that the city land development code uh completely applies to all new development and redevelopment of the site. Um, obviously there are nonconformities that exist. Um and we'll kind of get into some of those items um which staff has been working with the applicant um which was um part of um staff's original report back on July 8th

and essentially um the applicant took the time and and the responsibility to get with staff and meet with us to try to um to try to deal with these issues. So when we look at the cons and uh this essentially is looking at it from when we started the review and we'll get into where we are today. Uh so numerous uh number of non-conformities and uses um and structures erected slasherected items including firework sales and storage containers with explosive materials, signage, landscaping, etc. um existed when the applicant first came in to uh with the application for annexation. Uh the property was constructed prior to St. John's uh storm water management and permit requirements back in in the 80s. um when that was constructed essentially we don't have the uh robust St. John's requirements that exist today. Um so that that is just it comes with the time and usually when you annex right those are things that are looked at and understood for the fact of when when it was developed. Um some of the other cons are that there's a pending storm water basin study with unknown conditions um which um the county is is working on. uh county had a stormwater ordinance that they had uh implemented which I believe they have kind of backtracked on and are holding on to due to Senate Bill 180 uh and things of that nature. Uh so but however the storm water basin study is still in the works. Uh so there are unknown conditions in that regard and then also there is existing litigation uh from the Miller pond adjacent land owners. Um staff truly in our report um we don't know what any implications in annexation would do. Um the property was built again prior to standards and things like that. Um in working with the applicant and talking with the applicant um there was a motion um that was dismissed by the judge that they provided to us. Um and then there was another motion filed by the um Miller Road residence that the applicants waiting on a judgment from the judge to see if that's going to be also be

dismissed. um truly in criteria for annexation. Staff does not um evaluate that or look at that because that is not part of the voluntary annexation. In that regard, we'll get into a little bit um becomes a legislative decision um by the city council body. Uh so when we look at this, uh staff has held uh since the July 8th, 2025 meeting, uh staff has held several meetings with the applicant to discuss non-conformities. Essentially, it started um right away um the interim city manager and myself and Dale Arrington at uh W city manager at the time met with the applicant to kind of discuss these issues and and these concerns that were raised um in the city's initial staff report. Uh the applicant provided uh the denformities intended to be addressed at time of annexation. And so in this lag between July and now, we've been working uh closely with the applicant. And so I did do a a a site visit uh recently when we were preparing the item. I I do want to report that the explosive containers have been removed from the site. There is a storage container on the back which doesn't meet our code. Uh that'll be something that we would be working with the applicant on. However, the explosive containers are gone. They've taken that out. Um part of that is because the party exchange, my understanding is who were the fireworks sellers? Um they have vacated. They have a sign and with a with a gate stating that they have closed um and so they've left um they've left their teny there is my understanding um in in the staff recommended conditions staff is asking for a letter from the property owner confirming obviously these the these uh findings uh non-conformities in regards to pole and monument signs on enterprise road uh to to be replaced to meet chapter 9 uh at time of lot de development. So, one of the lots that they are proposing for development, um there is an existing monu or pole kind of sign that they have for the plaza. Uh

the applicant intends to remove that once they redevelop to um put one of the uses that they intend to put there. Uh and that would be relocated and it will have to meet city standards, chapter 9, uh land development code standards. Um also, the CSL plasma pole sign to be removed. Um the applicant has requested that that be considered upon lease expiration. Uh so they have and they were trying to work with the city a few years ago where they provided some type of draft agreement um that I I believe in 2041 I don't quote me u but it's in in the report and I know 2040 um some some date there uh is when that sign usage allowance expires or if the lease expires sooner uh they intend to take that pole sign down and we have placed a condition in there confirming that and they are bound to that per the conditions should the council approve the annexation. Um the other items of non-conformity or access landscape storm water improvements intended uh with future site plans. Um so with future site plans, any new developments and redevelopments have to meet our code. Uh there is an access issue off of Enterprise there. Um it's pretty dangerous when you go into that plaza currently. Um any new proposals would have to create a funnel traffic properly, provide proper design, uh provide landscape buffers to spruce up the site. Um and also they would have to meet our stormwater requirements for those developments that they they intend to put in. Uh so there are nonconformities that with development they will need to bring up to code immediately um upon issuance of of of approval should they be annexed. Uh so within the annexation uh ordinance there are uh conditions uh per ordinance number 688 uh the staff is proposing for your consideration and conditions related to existing non-conformities and also their compliance timelines. So they are making a effort to try to comply. Tenants have left containers have been

removed. Uh the applicant is moving forward to with with great interest. So, uh, staff, uh, with these, uh, since they are legislative matters provides options to the city council. Uh, so there's two options that we've presented to you all tonight. Um, find the annexation is in the best interest of Orange City's public health, safety, and welfare and approve annexation of the 18.90 acre property via ordinance number 688 and approve with staff recommended conditions. Or there's option two, which the city council can find the annexation is not in the best interest of Orange City's public health, safety, and welfare and will overly burden the city and deny ordinance number 688. Um, I would, if the applicant is here today, they they did prepare a presentation to present to you all. Um, and I would invite you all to um listen to their presentation that they have today.

Okay, council. Sure.

Yeah. Come on up. Good evening. Uh my name is Jeremy Anderson. I'm with Common Oak Engineering. Our office is 4020 Edgewater Drive Orlando. Uh I'm here today on behalf of the owners and the applicants Milstone Commercial LLC. Um I'm going to take you through a short presentation. Um we're going to start off with some of some things might be a little bit redundant with what Mr. Ru Ruiz already went over. Uh I just want to talk about the annexation. Um but also some of the nonconformities and some of the flooding concerns and and even touch on the litigation there for just a moment. Um and I'm of course here to um answer any questions you may have. So here's the the zoning map. Of course you've seen it already. Currently uh Valuchia County property zone B4 general commercial. The property is identified there with the star. Here's just a concept of what the zoning would look like, the zoning map would look like after the approval of the annexation and the adoption of the zoning and future land use designations. And you can see just visually the um just the contiguity related to the request and with other zoned um properties here in the city. Uh as as Mr. Maurice explained there's some annexation criteria that we needed to meet. Just a few of those are the contiguity the subject where has been deemed the subject parcel is contiguous to the city's boundaries. Um abuing city- owned properties to the east, south and west compactness, a reasonably compact um annexed property. It's all one property, one ownership and and of course no enclaves can be created with a request. um and and none are because we're located adjacent to city

properties. Um the staff's report has determined that the proposed request um meets the eligibility requirements for per Florida statute section 171.044. So you I wanted to talk a little bit about like why are we here? Why why are the owners wanting to annex this property right now? Um it's been in existence since 1976. they have tenants. Um, as Mr. Ruiz explained, by annexing the tax is going to go up. So, why are they doing that? The reason being is they want to create two out parcels along Enterprise Road. Um, we feel that this is important a good um aesthetic um upgrade to the center as well as other uh benefits to the community which I'm going to get into. Um, first of all, related to the driveway, it's conceptually shown here. We're reducing the width, increasing the throat substantially. As you can see, this is an older center. Um, there's not any interior landscaping. You can see the landscape islands and the landscaping that would be u included with the al parcel design. So, that is why we're here today. Okay, I'm going to touch on a little bit more of that, but that is the intention um related to the annexation from the ownership. As Mr. Ruiz explained, there's some concerns that I want to touch on. One is the flooding related to some hurricane events, the associated litigation that I'm going to talk about for just a few minutes. Um nonconformities as well. I'm going to touch on those as well related to signage, the fireworks, as we've talked about, the containers, driveway access, and other items. So, the storms associated with litigation were two back-to-back states of emergencies within two weeks of each other. Um, I've did a little research on this. Those backto-back storms are ranked among the costliest in the United

States history. 18 to 22 ines combined rain between the two. Um, Helen started with 8 to 10 inches. Two weeks later, Milton comes with 10 to 12. Um, just another quick fact, St. John's reached record historic highs during that time as well as other flooding throughout the state of Florida as well as the city of Orange City. Um, just to put into context, a 100red-year storm in the area for 24-hour storm is is 11 in roughly. So, two storms like that. So related to the flooding with related to the request for the out parcels each out parcel will have its own storm water management on site where a reduction in volume and rates of discharge will need to be demonstrated. So for the benefit related to the overall excuse me in the overall center related to storm water management there would be an improvement from that respect related to the out parcel um design and construction related to the litigation. There were very very a lot of many many property owners that were a part of that lawsuit. Um in our in our as far as the owners are cons u their their uh case it was dismissed by the judge. It was it was then refiled and they've they've requested another dismissal but that's still being heard. Uh the fire as Mr. Ruiz explained the fire tenants and the storage containers have been removed. Um the overall development for the AL parcels will be consistent with the city of Orange City development standards. Of course, we've talked about the driveway throat and the less than safe condition related to the existing condition will be improved meeting or exceeding Orange uh city, you know, Orange City and uh Valuchia County standards. Um things like architectural standards will be met along that

corridor. Um and and signage as well. This is a zoomed up image of if approved out parcel design. Again, you can I wanted to focus in here just a little bit to really draw your attention to what that driveway throat would become um with that design. And again, I I understand this is annexation request. We're not asking for a site plan approval. That will all come later. You know, the next steps after this would be like subdivision um and then site plan reviews and things like that. We're we're not requesting approvals for anything like that. But I did think it was important to show the intent of the request. So of the benefits to the community and the city, public safety, we're creating a safe and and comfortable driveway into the center. Aesthetics, the out parcel architecture and landscape along Enterprise Road frontage, public road improvements. We've done a traffic study. They've identified a failed roadway segment in the area. Our the share that would be contributed with that associated with the out parcel design is roughly $100,000. Local business brick and mortar stores on along a commercial corridor creating jobs and services to the community. Financial, we already mentioned the the approximate $50,000 tax um revenue that would be generated from the annexation alone. One of the owners is a commercial uh property appraiser. Um he expects the tax revenue from the out parcels uh once constructed to be in the hundred,000 approximately $100,000 range per year in addition to the 50,000 for the center. So based off of plus or minus $55 million value and of course we've talked about the storm water management. So with this request all of these things come with it. So I wanted to to to go over those items. So, um, again, I just want I guess I'd just like to say thank you for your time and I appreciate your consideration and, um, so I'm here to answer any questions you

may have. So, thank you. Thank you. Any questions from the council to the applicant? I have one. Councilwoman Stafford first.

Yes, madame mayor. I would like to I heard you said that the uh litigation lawsuits were returning and my concern is if we do this now where would that leave us you know our taxpayers are going to be paying some money if the litigation goes through I mean we don't know what the judges are going to decide so from you how can you guarantee us that the city will not take a hit on that? Uh from my understanding the city has not been named in the litigation. That litigation is over a year old. Um if the city were named in the litigation, I think it would have been it would be known right now. Of course, it's a it's a private litigation matter. There's a lot of there's plenty of properties in the city already that have been included as far as those property owners have been included in the litigation. So help me to understand because I'm not really fully understanding. If in the future if we purchase this property or we annex this property, if we annex this property, would the city be liable for any type of litigations from the past, future, I mean from the past?

I just want to say that I am not an attorney. I'm a licensed engineer. I was going to say you might want to direct that question to our city attorney. Yeah, I hold it for a later time. I hold it for a later time. I'm sorry. I hold it for my question. I'll hold it for later. Okay, Vice Mayor. Well, that was my question also about the lawsuit. Any other The first one's been dismissed. Correct. It was It was dismissed by the judge and then it was refiled against the owners for our particular one. And that dismissal has been requested again, but it has not been decided yet. Do we have a timeline on when that dismissal could

sir? I apologize. I I don't know. Honestly, I'm not that close to that part of the um what is going with that. Councilwoman Knight was next. I do have a question. If we were not named in the initial suit and they get a dismissal, but then they continue to file even after it's been dismissed, could they potentially include the city in any future litigation if they're if their suits are dismissed? Yes. May ask the witness question. Yes.

Uh sir, do you know what the cause of action was in the lawsuit? Why what's the reason for the lawsuit? Why are they being sued? And who's suing who? Um, I know who's hand who sued the the owners. Uh, it's a law firm. You want me to do I stay the law firm? No, no, no. Just who who are the parties and what is the cause of action? What why is the lawsuit? What's the purpose of the lawsuit?

Um, we have we have a hard time understanding it entirely and I'm not trying to dodge your question. It's one of the reasons why we feel like the judge dismissed it originally. I because Um, the judge agreed with the the request for dismissal. Um, I don't understand how they would be liable from from that what I would call an act of God. Um, is is it a lawsuit for negligence? I'm so sorry. I was a real property dispute. Do you do you know? I I do I do not know. I apologize.

So, to answer to answer the question, the city has sovereign immunity. So, the city's not going to be liable for negligence. Uh, the city could get drugged into some sort of real property dispute, but we do have insurance to cover that type of stuff. So, you know, but without knowing the cause of action or the parties or the current status of the case. I understand there's a pending motion to dismiss. Um, is it a motion for summary judgement? Is it a motion to dismiss? Do is it in federal court, state court? Do you do you know any of that information? I do not, sir. I'm sorry. So, it's kind of hard to answer that question, but I can say we do have sovereign immunity. Yeah, it sounds like money waters for us.

Who said that? Sorry, you can't speak out from the audience. Um, Councilwoman Thompson, I we did provide the dismissal paperwork. I did not bring it with me. Um, let's hear from the councilwoman Tiam Thompson. She wanted to ask you a question, I believe.

So, I know that we visited this on July 8th, and the reason why we um wanted to bring it back at a later date was because it was going to litigation. And as it states under the background and review, it says during Hurricane Milton, a portion of Tmont Drive washed out due to the volume and velocity of rainfall that occurred in the area. Tmont Drive connects into US 1792 South Valuchia, which also suffered wash out during the Milton storm event. So it says the land and private roadway adjacent to Miller Road west of 1792 located unincorporated Valuchia County were also inundated from Hurricane Milton and May 28 affected property owners filed a lawsuit against owners of property located uphill from Miller Pond claiming damages from offsite storm water runoff. This property seeking annexation into Orange City is one of the properties included in the lawsuit and we don't know if the annexation will impact the pending litigation in any way or increase the city's liability.

Okay. So, go ahead. We don't know. Did you want to say something, Mr. Waters? So, it it's unknown whether what effectation would have what the status of litigation is. I I hear what you said, but still not clear what the cause of action is. um could be some liability there for the city. There may not be.

Yeah. I just I just want to address real quick. Um in the past we had this conversation council and I know when Dale was here she was expressing that there was things that were um like a I can't remember what the some kind of key things that didn't happen and that's what you know that's why they're in litigation. Um, I don't want to get into the details because I don't want to say something wrong, but I feel like if we take this property on, um, I don't feel like it's quite ready yet. If we take it on now, we don't, we're walking into the dark. We don't know if we're going to get pulled into litigation. We don't know if it's going to devastate all those families on Miller Road again because you never know when these storms are coming back, right? And, um, there's just too many unknowns. And so I think to protect the city, we really should kind of halt on this until those boxes are more checked and we know the answers. Um Joe, do you have

Yeah, just just uh Mr. Waters question. So uh Paul, it was a motion to dismiss is what was issued and then there was a re there was essentially the the plaintiffs uh filed another motion to kind of appeal that. So So typically, if I may, Madame Mayor, typically the way that works is there's a motion to dismiss. is dismissed without prejudice, it's refiled and then this may be a dismissal with prejudice meaning you can't bring it back again. But here an important distinction with this issue is you have two types of matters that you hear. There's quasi judicial hearings which are kind of a heightened standard and the courts will look at whether your decision is based on competent substantial evidence. This is not that,

right? This is a legislative action. So the court uses something called a fairly debatable standard. So basically what that means is is you can deny or approve this for any reasonable policy reason that that you you have. So if you're not comfortable with the pending litigation, that would be a reasonable basis for denial. So thank you. And it and it's not just the the being comfortable with the litigation, but if you can you go back to that diagram that you had up there. I wanted to just or mine his his presentation or mine um your yours.

Oh, it's not up there. That's his. Okay.

So, on the diagram, it had a it had a list of things that needed to be done before it was actually ready. And from what I can remember, um, you know, they have some infrastructure they need to do in there, obviously, not just for storm water, but, um, let me see here. The nonconformities. There you go. So, there's all there's there's a bunch of things there. We got the the plasma pole sign, um, the access. There's just a lot of things that need that need to be checked off before we really think about this in my opinion because we don't want to take on another no offense burden on the taxpayers and have to spend more money to take you know this property into our city. Um personally I'd I'd rather leave it in Valuchia County right now and let them pay for it. Um, I know it is a gate. It's it's the the gate way to our city and um, you know, I know everybody love big lots and all that, but I I'm not really sure what you're doing with the property. I think we said something like a gas station and some other things, but I just don't think it's ready. Council, do you have any comments, council?

So, I think until Mr. waters is able to maybe take a look to see causation, that kind of thing. Um, and get a better feel for what the litigation is all about and give us that information. I don't think it would be in the city's best interest to go ahead and annex it because we do not want to create a liability of our city and our taxpayer dollars. we're struggling as it is without, you know, coming back next year and going, "Oh, we may have to raise taxes again." I don't want to do that. I'd rather be able to try to lower them if possible. That's no guarantee because the cost of everything. But I just don't think Orange City needs to be We don't need to put Orange City in a position to where we could become liable and we don't want to just turn it over to our insurance company and go, "Hey, go ahead and take care of that." I think we need to we need to like hold off until Mr. Waters can maybe

we're going to go to Mr. Waters real quick and then Councilwoman Tiamson.

Thank you. Um if I may, uh typically there's a feasibility study that's performed. Um and I know that there's an expense to that. There's probably an application fee that goes along with that. So I I would hate for them to lose all of that money and hard work and time. So, um perhaps instead of denying it, maybe continuing it, maybe staying it, maybe tableabling it, maybe giving them time to work out not only the litigation, but I think there might have been some other issues too to work out. That way they don't lose their feasibility study and the time, the effort and the money and the cost they have into the project. Yeah, I think that's what we did July 8th when we said we're going to wait because we didn't know what was going to come out of that lawsuit and whether or not we were going to inherit that kind of issue. Um I don't remember when you came if it was during that time or or what I think it was after.

Yeah. So we did that on July 8th and we're kind of at the same spot right now just because they have filed the um

they have filed another motion to have this heard again. Who knows what's going to happen. We don't know. Uh the other thing is some of the things that you were talking about. So I know they removed the firework containers and that's basically the only thing that has been remedied. The storage containers don't meet code. That can be remedied. No problem, I'm sure. But remove and conform to city standards. The CSL sign, the lease expiration, we might have to wait until the end of whatever date that was. Um I know that Joe said something around 2041, but he wasn't sure exactly. And then uh the proper design of traffic. So all of these things put together, we're still right where we are in July 8th in my opinion. So I feel like we should have a little bit more concrete. Also, the one thing I was looking for I saw up there, Joe, was the basin study is not completed yet. And that's super important because that that tells all, right? The basin study. Can you touch on that so that everybody knows what I'm talking about? Yeah, the the basin study that Valuchia County is working on that is it will be a telltale of the existing conditions of the basin area as well as future impacts that new development can have on it

and that and that is right next to flooding that tells where our flooding areas are just to be councilwoman Darmms speak in a microphone please. Sorry. Sorry.

Um, there's a the final paragraph in this memorandum kind of speaks loudly because all I could think of was the storm water that went across the road down Mill and Sha and uh Shady Lane and all that. It says the site developed in 1976. It was constructed at the very commencement and establishment of the Florida Water Management Districts. In 1972, the state passed the water uh resources act which created the six regional management districts and established a permit for water usage. This is the same year the state passed the comprehensive planning act. However, it wasn't until 1983 that the SJR WMC received expanded authority to regulate and control storm water discharge from developments. The four towns parentheses big lot site predates these storm water requirements. That says a lot. Any other comment from the council? Okay, we just need um do we let me see here. Do we need a motion or Yeah. So, either option one or option two. We need a motion for and then we'll go out to public comment. If anybody wants to comment on that, we can call you up. Okay. Ma'am,

Councilwoman, um I know we've got option one and option two is um is council consider would council consider continuing this and give them an opportunity to look at that, find out more about the the Basin study and all of that. Anybody?

Councilwoman Tamson. Yeah, I'm just going to reiterate what I said. We we did this in July, July 8th, and I don't know if we we do make option one or option two. Does that squash it or does it give them the opportunity to come back and ask Mr. Waters annexation? I think you could you could make a motion to continue and to a date certain.

So, No. Yeah. Well, if if you do one or two, it it they'd have to start over. And I think there was probably an application fee involved. And I think that's probably not cheap. Uh but if you continue it, they get to use their application fee. They get to use their existing feasibility study. They get to use everything that's already on file. And it probably be less of a burden for staff too to continue as opposed to start over. Vice Mayor. Madame Mayor. Um Joe, do we know when that basin study is going to be finalized?

Um I am not um privy of really the ins and outs. John Peters is here who can probably talk a little better about it. Um we do know it does those studies do take quite a while. Um, I don't have the exact timelines of when they commenced and I I know a few months ago they were finalizing the scope um to get their consultant to start it, but I I don't I don't really have a feel that could possibly not be finished in the year of 26. Don't know. Right. Right. It's basin studies for the whole county. So, it could take quite a while. It's not just our city.

Yeah. They've chosen five areas within our city um that the county is looking at that are that they're happening concurrently at the same time, but the studies do take a while. And I think Mr. Peters is going to Mr. John Peters going to shed some light.

Um Felicia County identified five basins in our area to be studied. Um they actually engaged um uh Jones Edmonds u on Miller Lake First. They're already underway. Um but the fact of the matter is I can't tell you what the status is because uh there I believe Morgan and Morgan uh initiated a lawsuit and I don't know if the county pulled back or not. I can check on it and we can reach out to you with an email and give you an update. Councilwoman Thompson.

Yes. So, going back to what Miss Knight said and I think what we all are looking at definitely don't want to cause any more work for staff and I don't want to cause any problems for the the land owner either and cause them any more money. It doesn't make sense. I would think that we would do something along the lines of uh extending this and and revisiting it another time and then Mr. Anderson, you get to come back and talk to us again. So, um I I just feel like that might be a great workaround for all of us. That's my opinion. Are you making a motion or you I can make a motion. Give me one moment. Let me just back up.

So, besides option one and option two. So, I would say um that at this time um we find the annexation is not in the best interest of the Orange City's public health, safety, and welfare and will overly burden the city and deny the ordinance with the exception of bringing it back to a date certain. I don't know how far out we want to go with that. May I?

Yeah, that that would actually be a motion to deny it. So, that would kill it. So I I think if if what I'm hearing it would be similar to the last motion, which is a motion to continue, and I'm reading exactly what the minutes were, motion to continue the request of the applicant with no date certain to allow work with staff to regarding the existing nonconformities. So moved. Second. I'll second. Okay, we have a motion. We have a second. So a date certain um So, we did no date certain last time. So, madame clerk, you said we need a date.

Can you speak into the microphone because we can't hear what you're saying? Explain that to the council. Um, so we can do it without a date certain, but we will have to revertise. So, I'm unsure if the applicant is going to bear the cost of that or the city. Thank you, G, so much for your attention to this and and um we would prefer to do with a not date certain. It just there's a lot of um work we need to do um and we want to do it right and so we just want to give it time to be able to get that done correctly. Okay. So, we have a motion, we have a second, right? That's right.

Yep. Any public comment? We have one. I'm gonna go with uh David Hill first.

Hello, Mayor and Council. Uh thank you for letting me speak tonight on this matter. I'm I'm one of the um I could say I'm a victim of this water that keeps coming off this this property. But I I want to point something out. The the two hurricanes that we had, Milton and the one before that, that was a lot of water. But my my property started flooding constantly in 2017. I live at 340 Miller Road. And I would encourage you to drive by my property and look at my front yard. I have 50 to 70 year old trees that are just dead and rotten away. That's property that I grew up on, that my children grew up on, that we rode dirt bikes on. So just these two hurricanes didn't do this. This water has been coming up and up and up. And in 2017, and I think it was a push from the city of Orange City, they put that pipe under Tmont Drive from Royal Oaks. And that led all of Royal Oaks water through. And at that time, there were three unpermitted pipes that were going through their system right into Miller Lake. So, I'm hoping that if you annex this property that you can help solve this problem because to my knowledge, their retention pond, that water hits that pond and within a foot and a half it rolls right into Miller Pond. And I grew up on Miller Pond. I partied on Miller Pond. It used to be truly a pond and occasionally two ponds. Now, we're like everybody's dumping ground. and I and I'm one of the plaintiffs and I just I'm not going to stand around and continue to be dumped on. This problem's going to get solved and I have a huge group of people behind me that we don't want any

more of this water. We didn't agree to it and we don't want it and I don't agree to take anybody's water on my private land. So, I'm glad that you all are concerned about us. it it feels good to see that you're you're aware of it and if you have a solution I'm totally open and and I and I would like to have a solution. So I want to thank you for your time and uh I'm asking for your help if you take on this property. Please help us. All right. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Hill.

Sir come up. No. No. You sure? Okay. Any other public comment? No. Seeing none, we'll bring it back to the council for the question.

Council member Tamson. Yes. Vice Mayor Grim. Yes. Council member Stafford. Yes. Council member Richardson. Yes. Council member Darmms. Yes. Council member Knight. Yes. Mayor Marks. Yes. And ordinance number 688 has been continued to no date certain. Is that enough to state on the record, Mr. Waters? Okay. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Where were we? We're moving on to six. Public hearings and ordinances. Second second and final reading. We have none. Seven resolutions. 7 A. Resolution number 408-25. Mr. Waters, please.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is item number 7A, resolution number 408-25, a resolution of the city of Orange City, Florida, electing to use the uniform method of collecting nonadalorum special assessments levied within the incorporated area of the city, stating a need for such levy, providing for the mailing of this resolution, providing for conflict and severability, and providing for an effective date. Thank you, madam mayor. Thank you, Devlin Moore.

Good evening, council. Delve Moore, finance director. The uh resolution number 408-25 ensures that the city can continue to use the uniform method of collecting non-avvalorum assessments for any new assessments that the council may enact in the next year. This action is required annually and must be adopted by January 1st. The purpose of the resolution is straightforward. The city must annually declare its intent to use the uniform method of collecting nonavalorm assessments. Doing so helps keep our options open for any new assessments that may be enacted in 2026. This resolution does not impose a new assessment at this time, nor does it commit the city to imposing a new assessment in 2026. It is simply a housekeeping action action uh required by state law. State law required us to publish a legal advertisement once per week for four conse consecutive weeks prior to this hearing. The city clerk completed this request. After adoption, the resolution must be sent to the tax collector, the property appraiser, and the Florida Department of Revenue by no later than January 10th. The process maintains compliance with Florida statutes and ensures that the city can use the tax bill as an effect effective and efficient collection tool. So this slide illustrates the uniform method of collection and for this case I'm using an example scenario where a developer or a homeowners association comes to the city and requests a lighting district. So anybody any or a sub like a subdivision Shatter Ridge phase 2 Brierwood South are two examples. They can come to council and

say will you please enact a light street lighting district in our subdivision. They come to council. Council considers it and if you so choose you can enact a special assessment. That special assessment is the information then is forwarded to the property appraiser and the property appraiser places that assessment on the annual trim notice. Then it goes to the tax collector who actually puts that assessment on the tax bill and they're responsible for collecting the assessment and then uh transmitted it to the city. When using uniform method, the property appraiser and the tax collector absorb the workload and the risk and because they have the resources, they also have a higher collection rate. This is why we use the uniform method for all of our special assessments. The uh alternatively, if this was not to be passed and the city council enacted a new uh special assessment in 2026, city staff would be responsible for generating the bills, sending them out, collecting the payments, and most importantly, uh following up on non-payment or uh late payments through some type of a collection effort. So staff recommends that city council approve resolution number 408-25. This keeps the city compliant with state law and preserves flexibility for the future.

Thank you. Thank you. Any questions from the council or comments? No questions. No. Okay. We just need a motion now. I'd like to make a motion to approve resolution number 408-25. We have a motion. I'll second. We have a motion. We have a second. Any public comment on this? Seeing none, we'll bring it back for the question. Vice Mayor Grim, yes. Council member Stafford, yes. Council member Richardson, Council Member Darmms, yes. Council member Knight, yes. Council member Thompson, yes. Mayor Marks,

yes. And resolution number 408-25 passes. Okay, we're moving on to eight discussions and action. 8A, Florida City County Manager Search Program. Christine Davis, interim city manager. Hi, good evening, mayor, council members. Christine Davis, interim city manager. Uh, this my report's brief. Um, at the last meeting, uh, November 12th, I reached out on the 13th to Mr. Ken Parker with the, uh, senior adviser with FCCMA. We he finally got back to me just a few days later and unfortunately his his calendar was not free for tonight. So, at this point, I brought back the staff report and looking for further direction. Thank you.

Or if there's any questions, any questions from the council or comments? No. I'm not exactly sure of procedure. So chair at this time because we have gotten recommendations for uh head hunter who's one of the top ones in uh I guess in the state of Florida about recruitments and from uh Councilman Dorm's uh latest statement. I would like to make a motion if it's in order. I would like to make a motion to appoint Christine Davis as our city manager

and and direct the HRS person to uh get with whomever they need between the HRS person and Christine Davis to develop a contract and bring it back to council for review. Okay, we have a mo we have a motion. We have a second. Any public comment? I have some that signed up. We'll start with that.

That's a warning. Michelle Fowler. Okay.

Lori Scottton. Good evening, Council and Mayor. Lori Scotten, 836 Aana Drive, Orange City. Um, if you guys agree to what uh Miss Stafford said, that's why I'm here. Um, $35,000 for a head hunter is absurd. That is absurd. You have a perfectly good candidate who is sitting in that seat and has been. She's been with this city for years. She knows the city. She's perfectly capable of doing that job. So, you know, we we hear for the last year or so, you know, we got to be good stewards of the city's money. Good stewards. We don't have enough money to give to nonprofits for community events. Oh my god, $1,000. That's going to kill us. But we're going to spend 35,000 for a head hunter. That is ridiculous. Ridiculous. You need to just give the job to Christine Davis. She's qualified. She's capable. And there's no reason to move forward on this and do anything else. Um so, uh that's pretty much all I want to say. Um and also again, I would like to just ask the mayor for her resignation and save us the heartache and the hassle of doing a recall

sticking to the agenda item. Thank you. Well, that's just my ending. So, thank you. Thank you, Brook Scotten.

I know. Brook Scott and 836 Aana Drive, Orin City, Florida. First, I want to start this meeting off by saying the actions tonight by the mayor have been disgusting. How can I, as a 25-year-old woman, see how unprofessional you are as a public servant? Excuse me. Can you direct it towards the agenda item, please? Oh, thank you.

Okay. Well, it was supposed to be um the $35,000 that you guys wanted to spend, which is ridiculous since we couldn't give $1,000 to organizations. We wanted to make a big hoop and holler over that. Um but if you guys are good to keep um Christine, then I'm good, too. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you.

Christina Bertran. My name is Christina Bertrand and I live at 1298 Catherine Street here in Orange City. I'm going to just cut to the chase. I'm here to ask the council to vote for Miss Davis into the city manager position. I have read the recommendations by Colin and Associates and the Executive Recruiting Firm and the Florida League of City Managers Guide and they seem to agree that Miss Davis is the best fit for our city. We have all seen that our current mayor only has her agenda in mind and does not care about spending an extra 35,000 unnecessarily. You all were voted into position to vote for what the people want. And clearly tonight, as you have seen on other nights lately, we the people do not want to spend this extra money. She's clearly a candidate that is worthy. I would also like can I talk about agenda B because that's part of this eight.

No, we're on A right now. You can come back during that time though. Okay. Yeah, I'll do that then.

Thank you, Michelle Fowler. Michelle Fowler, 1595 Brown Avenue. And I concur with what the other citizens say. Um Christine Davis is a very well overqualified person for this position. Again, I don't justify the city spending $35,000 for something that you have sitting right in front of you. Um, it's absurd and that's all I have.

Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment? Come on up, Mr. Q.

Madame Mayor, council, I've got 30 years. Can you just state your name and address again?

John McHugh, 760 East Lands Downtown Avenue, Orange City, Florida. I've got 30 years of history as city manager and senior level official on both local and state governments here in the state of Florida. I worked with Christine for quite a quite a few years, probably I think almost 10. She's the best finance director that I've ever worked with. She's got all of the capabilities. She's got proven performance. She's got the support of staff. She's got the support of citizens. And now she has the support of at least two council members. That tells me that there's council members that want to lead. Leading isn't by disruption. And that's what we're seeing. Disruption. Go after the city council. I mean, the city clerk, go after the city manager. Those are two of the top. They're two of the three charter uh officers. And we're looking to dismiss them. We need stability. Christine brings that. We need leadership. Christine brings that. And now we have leadership on the council and I thank you for that and please vote in favor of keeping her as your city manager. Thank you

evening mayor council. Uh my name is Gary Knight. I live at 1555 North Silverstone Court, Orange City, Florida. Back years ago, okay. I work for a company called Snowing and Snowing. I was a head hunter. Our job is to find people and make money. Sometimes we steal people and then we have other things. But in my case, after looking at because I I worked as a a head on it for almost 10 years out of Boston, Massachusetts and we did a lot of crazy things sometimes, but the main thing here is after reading a lot of the stuff and one of the reports from the um one of the head hunters or recruiters, you want to call them head hunter was kind of a bad word back then, but um one of the recruiters said that he doesn't like to talk about that. But because of the situation where you have a lead person that's the interim that is already in position, a lot of times you won't have really good candidates come in. But in my case, what I see as having been in the recruiting business and things is that when you have a a bird that's already sitting on a tree, put the tree to work. Put the bird to work. It's that simple. Um Christine Davis has done an outstanding job. I know for a fact, you know, you ask her questions, she gives you answers. She's done good. and she knows that um she's the interim and she may not have the job, you don't know. But I think with the staff that you have right now, I mean, thank God Kayleie's still here. Um we have Christine. There's Christine.

Okay. And what I'd like to say as a citizen, I think that the council needs to consider Christine Davis as our new city manager. Let's make a contract, get it done so we can move on. Then we maybe we can get past like Lisa Stafford said, we got to get past all this crap. Stop with the the chaos and let's get back to city business and make things happen. Thank you.

Thank you. Patrick Murphy, 678 Swan Range Road in Blue Springs Villas. And I'll be very short. I started out on the side of this search, very much in favor of the search, questioning a little bit of the educational background and everything of Christine. I didn't know her real well at that time, but I'm now on the other side. I absolutely think this is the time to stop the search and hire her for all the good reasons. Let's listen to Dale Arrington and to others that I've talked to as well. I think it's the time to sit down, do a contract, and hire her. Thank you.

Any other public comment? Okay, seeing none, we'll bring it back to council for discussion. I just had uh two things I wanted to ask. First of all, I don't think that we ever mentioned anything about council $35,000. We didn't commit to that at all at any point. I know that we had that Yes, you did. Excuse me. Thank you.

I know that we had that letter from the that gentleman and he said it would cost 35,000 if we used his firm and we did not accept that. We asked that we bring in FCCMA and just ask them what their terms were and what they could uh do for us because we had been given all that information at the um Florida League of Cities when we went there. I think Christine was given that information as well. So, we were looking at that and trying to see what that entailed. So, 35,000 I'm not sure where that came from other than him mentioning that's what his price would be. The other thing was um the EEO I didn't know and maybe you can council waters. Is there anything in our EEO that we have to put this out for internal or external?

No. The uh the Florida statute the um procurement statute uh applies to goods and services. So it wouldn't apply to this. Okay. The law says that in cases like this you have to follow your charter. And your charter says uh commission vote uh by motion second and then uh four votes. Got it. So that's what your charter says. Got it. That's what I was trying to figure out because we have um things that we have to follow in the county. So I wanted to make sure that we were doing the same thing in the city. Perfect. Thank you very much for that. Yes, ma'am. Appreciate it. That's all I have. Any other discussion from the council? Go ahead,

Christine. This question is for you. Um, if given the position, are you still looking to retire? Oh, I have no date. No date. Thank you. I have another question. Um, the So, you would be stepping away from your um assistant city manager job. So, we would have to then fill that. I would have to fill that. Okay. So, we have got to fill that. I would fill that if I was a city manager. Yes. Okay. And that has not been filled. Oh, I have an interim right now helping me. Okay.

Um, but that's due to the recent in inundation of the workload. Okay. And being able to keep up with the the demands. Okay. So, you've got an interim in yourstead. Got it. Anybody else from council? I just had a question for uh the attorney. So, my concern is if we don't go out for RFQ, could we be set up for a lawsuit that if there's other people that wanted to apply for that job? No. Excuse me. The Florida statute does not require procurement for this.

Just make sure. Right. Just trying to protect the city. Thank you. It refers you to your charter. Appreciate that. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, we have a motion. We have a second. We've had um citizens comment. We're going to call the question.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Thank you. And the motion passes. And the motion passes to uh promote Christine Davis to city manager. Congratulations. Thank you all. All right, we're moving on to You don't have You don't have an acceptance speech. It's 9:30 at night and I haven't given you my report. That's a warning.

Okay. So, we're moving on to uh 8B, designation of four representatives to attend legislative action days in Tallahassee. I have Kaylee as presenting. Is that change? That's fine. I didn't know. Okay. I I just have a lot. I'm not going anywhere until after city manager report, but Okay. I'll get out of her way. Okay.

All right. Good evening. Um, so Legislative Action Day's registration was announced last week. I believe it was Thursday around 4:45. Um, so actually it was um Tuesday, Tuesday around 4:45 because we did get the agenda item out and then we had to get the backup documentation. So sorry about that mixup. However, um, so legislative action days typically happen in March. They are happening early this year. So the dates for this year are Monday, January 26th through the 28th. Um the proposed travel dates due to the length of the travel would be Sunday, January 25th with attendees returning on Thursday, January 29th. The reason that I did that is um because and let's let me just explain a little further. So the Florida League of Cities events end at noon on Wednesday. However, there are a number of meetings that typically get set up with House representatives and senators. So, I wanted to leave a little bit of extra room after the Florida League of Cities events just in case those meetings took place on another day or another time. Um, so preliminary what we needed um was going to be how many attendees are going to be um going to Tallahassee, what attendees are going to be meeting with which house reps and legislators because more than one council member could not attend a meeting together. Um, so we're kind of looking for guidance on that. The budget, we attempted to budget for around four people. The prices have gone up just a little bit, so it may require a budget amendment. I'm unsure by how much at this moment. Um, we do have four hotel rooms booked in anticipation of sending four attendees. Um, those can be cancelled. Obviously, they're all in my name, so they'll be reassigned once we determine the attendees. Um, but we're basically asking council to provide some guidance on that for us.

Okay. Bring it back to council. Any questions or comments? Councilwoman Knight.

Um, since you attended last year, um, how how many council members do you think would be appropriate to attend? I mean, I suggest three council members and then the city manager because the city manager is usually the one that knows all the financial or you know things in front of us and that's just what I saw with the other cities. Um I went by myself so it was a little hard to navigate all that but we did the best we could. Um, but I think that would be a good way to send it. And, um, I know someone had mentioned, maybe Christine mentioned about the fire chief um, could go, you know, because we're asking for

or the police chief, right? I mean, it's, you know, it's really just up to the council. But um I know that one thing that the legislators do just from being at several of their things is and you could probably agree with this because you were there, but um they want they want the elected officials there. They want to they want you to show that you mean business. And I think that's what what Teresa was saying earlier is that I wasn't taking no for an answer when they said, "Well, we already made our decision." Well, that's not acceptable. Orange city needs money. I want to talk to somebody. So, I kind of pushed my way around to say, "We need this, you know, because we're competing with all the cities in in Florida.

Think about it, right?" And they're all there. And some of them were there. They got bigger budgets in Orange City. So, there was like 10 of them there or 15 of them. And I know we can't compete with that because we don't have the budget for that. Um, but I think that honestly I think three in one would be the best scenario or um or you know if we send a fire chief what about the police chief because think about it we were asking for both or public works for that matter right? So um totally up to you all but that's what I suggest. So you're suggesting three council members city manager in addition to Well, we got four right Kay four. So, I suggest three council members and one and and city manager.

Okay, that's my suggestion, but it's up to you all. I mean, you've got firsthand experience, so and I can tell you that I cannot go this year because I have a prior engagement. So, I would suggest the vice mayor go. If you can, that would be great. It's a great experience to go and and, you know, see what it's about. Um, and we're asking for a lot of money. So, any you have any

take one question? If you're not available, will you be at the meeting on that Tuesday night to make sure we have a then we will have to contemplate the meeting of the 27th because we do have a regular council meeting. Yeah, I'm not going to be in town. So, so that would that would then bring us back to two council members and one to two staff. So, and that's workable. Um, depending on, you know, everybody's schedule. So, I would stay here and run the meeting then. Oh, I didn't even think about that. Can we reschedule the meeting or I mean, yeah,

we just have to revertise it or whatever. Well, because we didn't advertise it yet. No, we haven't advertised it yet. And we do it for the the we did it we do it for the um budget hearings once a year anyway. So we would would you s can you look at your calendars and see do you have I mean ideally it would be that week that's the only other issue and if we're gone Monday through um Wednesday come back Thursday we could reschedu it for Thursday um would be my suggestion. It's asking a lot of whoever's traveling so bear in mind that chair. Yeah. Good.

Okay. Um I'm not understanding and it goes to our clerk. Okay. We have a budget that particular time it's going to cost approximately how much for the residents to pay for someone for four people to go to Tallahassee. Um at this time I with the city's money now because our taxpayers are paying for this. So at this time I do not have a full estimate. I have not worked up like mileage reimbursements or like meal perdms or anything. The only thing that I've done is book the hotels at this moment. Um the hotels are $8,980. That's $9,000 just for someone to stay for four people to stay.

Tallahassee during the legislative session. It that's about normal to be completely honest.

Um excuse me. Can we please have our meeting? Okay. My thing is if we're doing that, we're not really cons we're not being smart with taxpayers money. We're going to go up there and nine times out of 10 just saying we're going to have a couple of violations of the sunshine law because you know what? When we go talk with somebody and we meet together, we're going to talk about that again. And in all honesty, we have Woodward and Curran who is a lobbyist for us at no cost to the residents. Why do we need coun council people and staff other than the mayor and one other staff person to go and deal with this situation? I mean for the last I don't know how many years it's only been the one staff person I mean the one council person to attend and to be fair and to be smart with taxpayer money as you always tell me why how is this smart with taxpayers money why can't if when I got on council and I was invited by the league of cities to come they told me if I wanted to go council told me if I want to go you you're free to go just pay your own And what's wrong with anybody that wants to go and really wants to be there for the city paying their own way other than the mayor and a staff person? What's wrong with that? I don't think we need to put $30,000 in our budget to take somebody take counsel to Tallahassee. I don't think it's fair to our residents. I don't know. I want to be smart with their money. I want to be smart with their and I want to use it for my benefits. I want I want the taxpayers to know exactly where their money is going and be transparent.

Okay. I'd like to touch on that just because I was there. The and I'll repeat it again. The reason that I suggested that in the first place, first of all, it was put on a budget. We didn't we budget for about 10,000 I think this year for that. So, it's already in our budget. 10,300.

So that's what Kayleie was saying that we may have to do a budget amendment if we decide to do this. But the whole reason was is because if you go there with one person or two people, you're competing with the state of Florida and all the cities. And we are trying to ask for approximately $3 million to build our master facility so that our first responders can have habitable buildings. Right? I mean, if anybody's tooured their buildings, it's ridiculous. Right? So, that's why we're trying to get there. If we don't get help from the state, I don't know that we're going to have buildings for a very long time because like Councilwoman Knight says, we don't want to raise taxes anymore, right? But do they deserve to work under those conditions? Right? So, it's it's it's just like anything else. You have to invest money to make money, right? And so I agree with you with, you know, it it's it looks like it's frivolous spending, but it's actually part of our job to go there and lobby and and we've had the same lobbyists for years. Did we get any money last year? Cuz they were there, too. No,

we got it all the way to the governor's desk. That's right. We got it all the way to the governor's desk, and it only took our mayor and someone else to go get it that far. To be fair, I went by myself and I worked really hard to get it to the governor's desk before you got before you got to that point because you were you only been here for a year, but before that year came along, we had it already there to the governor's desk. Okay. Well, we still don't have facilities here and last year we were turned down by the governor. What we do is we go in there and we lobby to the state and the senate, both sides, what we need. Right.

Right. And we go to several people all day long. It's it's like I said, it's like being in college. You run from one place to the other. Right. It's an experience. And you're stating your case. And you got I think was it 10 minute 10 minutes, Teresa? I think it was 10 minutes. 15. Yeah. And you're like a number. You know what I'm saying? Like next, next. Okay. So, it's understandable. Alls I was trying to say is let's make an impression that we need this and we we need this for our first responders and um you know who is our who let me just say who is our uh we have a senate um sponsor and a state right

house house and senate sponsor right so obviously we're going to rally to them we went to uh offices of the financial people we we tried everybody body. We worked really hard to get to everybody we could in that little bit of time.

And then we went and rallied with this with Valuchia County, the Florida um Valuchia League of Cities. And then we went in and rallied with them about the CRAAS and you know, all those things to fight for everybody in Valuchia County as a team, right? So, it's just super important to to go as a team and and and show that you mean business. And um I mean I I mean I I'll do whatever the council wants cuz I I don't want to spend frivolously either, but I just think that you it takes money to make money and this is super important to our fire station, to our police station, and it's a lot of money we need to build those things. So every little bit helps. And

for us to cut short on that, I'll just say I don't know. Go ahead. I've had a couple conversations, you know, like when we've gone to events where we see some of our representatives. Can you speak in the mic? We can hardly hear you. Sorry. Sorry. Um I've I've I've been to some of the, you know, events that we we have to go to. Um and I've had an opportunity to speak to some of our representatives and stuff that are up in Tallahassee. And one comment that stood out to me, which I still think it's crazy, is you didn't have anybody show up. You had one person show up. Told you.

If you wanted it that bad, why didn't more people show up? And I was like, we're a small town. We're not the land. We're not Daytona. We're not all these other bigger towns, right? So, we don't have the budget necessarily to be sending like the whole freaking council up there, but at the same time, I don't want to spend taxpayer money on it, you know? But I think we need to spend some because we're gonna have to send more than one council member up there to show we're serious. Because what happens is you go and talk to these people and then they have to really rally for you to the governor to get it on his desk to look at it and approve it. And if they don't, they may get it to the governor's desk, but their recommendation may not be there. And that's something I think we got to look at. I I'd like to touch on that a minute. Um, Councilwoman Stafford had asked, so in the previous years when Gary Blair was mayor, he would always say that only the mayor could go. And I thought that was a a, you know, a rule, a standard that that's the way it goes and we can't all go unless, like you said, unless we pay for oursel. That's a lot of money to put out for ourselves. Think about it, right? Maybe some of us can't do it. some of us are on social security or whatever it may be, right? So they may never get to go for that reason. So then it was, well, can we alternate? Can we take turns going, right? Nope. The mayor has to go. That was what he stated. So we just went with it. We went with with what what the status was. We didn't know any better. And so when I realized that it that wasn't the rule. And when I started as mayor and tried to build a team for all of us to do to get things done, um it was uh you know then I realized you know what I go to

Tallahassee and I see Dand with like a bunch of people and Port Orange with a bunch of people and all these different cities and I was like we're not little old Orange City. Think about it. We have a lot going on here that we need money for. We have storm water problems. We need master facilities. We got a parks plan, right? We got all these, you know, needs or or dreams, whatever you want to call it. But the bottom line is is we need help cuz we're going to run out of money if we don't or we're going to have to say, "Sorry, we can't build you a fire station. Sorry, we can't build you a police station." And I just think public safety's first, right? Like that's important. So, we may want to save money. I I absolutely always want to save money, but we got to be safe and and we have to take care of our residents for public safety and that's why this is important to invest in this. So, anybody else want to make comment Councilwoman Knight? We have some of our firemen who are working out of a trailer.

Yes. So if there's any doubt that we need to go up and represent and try to get money back here, we need those folks to be in a proper facility. Their gear is stored out into a storage unit that they have to go get. That is not efficient for firefighters, right? And we have not it's not good accommodations for them either when they have to work countless days on shift.

I'll I'll add on that. They have a truck that's out in the air under a carport. Their uniforms are in a shed in the backyard of the double wide, right? Um it's uh I mean there's just there's just so many things. Public works is their their office is in a loft. It looks like a little thing that a kid would play in to be honest with you. You know, it's just it's unacceptable work conditions. Um, and then let's go to the emergency operations. When I went to the last legislative session with Christine, my speech was is that our emergency operations center is over there next to the fire station part, the old church. It's not a hardened facility, right? So, the wind could blow our first responders away while they're trying to take care of the city during a storm. that there's just all of these things that makes it so important to invest in this because they keep us safe, right? So, if we don't have them to keep us safe, what are we doing? Right,

Madam Chair? Yes,

I understand what you're saying and I really I really do and I've seen everything you guys are saying. But was it if we invest like you say all this money into this and still we get the same results. I mean what are we doing here? I mean, if we're not Dand, we're not Dela, we're not Dberry, we don't have the budget that they have. Okay. But we do have capable people, whether it be the mayor or anyone from the city council to go and represent the city of Earn City and Earn City to bring home some money. We we I don't feel that we can afford to waste our taxpayers money. If like they told me when I got on board, if you want to go, by all means go, okay? You can get the same rate paying for yourself as if the city would pay for you. And if you really really are sincere about wanting to make sure our city is safe, let's do that. Let's do that. We all are on, like you said, some I'm on a fixed income. I'm on a fixed income, but I feel like if it's important to make sure our residents are safe, why can't I invest? And that's me. And like I said, my city, my community, that's me investing into it.

If you're able to, I could go down the line and say, can Kaylee, how much was it again for just the rooms alone? Not the meals, not the the perdeium of travel, the gasoline. Can you tell me like an estimate of the rooms at least? She might not need to stay as many days. She said she put an extra time. $8,900 or8 $8,980 for all four people. 8,000. Correct. Okay. So, it's about 2,000 for each person for the rooms only. Right. Right. Excuse me.

I would be willing to pay for myself. Okay. Well, I mean, I know not I know not everybody can. I'm just saying I just think that you're kind of setting people in an embarrassing moment where they don't want to tell you their finances and that they can or can't. That's true. And that's not my But it's an investment chair. As you said, it's an investment. It's an investment. It should be a city investment though. Why should we be per paying our personal? We all have bills, too. Ask me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Why? Why should we? Because when we got elected, we promised these people that we would we would we would do the best we could to serve them. Okay. So, do you want to pay for yourself together?

Pay for myself. No problem. Does anybody else want to pay for theirel? I am not available that time anyway. So, just want to put it out there that I'm busy that day. Okay. Anybody else? So, we have one person that's willing to pay and two that can't go. Um, okay. Let's go over to city manager. Do you want to pay for yourself? No, we agreed on a city council person and staff. We we agreed on two people. The the council person and one city staff. So, this is So, it's the city manager and yourself. No,

I mean that anybody from the council anybody? No, she said she'll go. Okay, you'll pay, but you're saying you Okay, I'm sorry. Who wants to go? Who wants to go? How's that? You said Councilwoman Darmm says she'll go. I don't know if council decides they want to send me. That's But I'm not going to throw myself out there unless Councilwoman Darmm says she wants to go. Councilwoman Knight says she would go. Okay. So, that's that's that's four now. I'll run the meeting. Okay. So, we're down to four. I'm trying to narrow this down here. Okay. So, we have That's what you're trying to do. Right now, I show Fran, uh, Council Member Darmms, and Council Member Knight for and yourself, right? For counsel. Okay.

And then if there's no other council available, we would look to one of our um our chiefs, which you have already met, right, about with so I would say we'd stick with that um presentation. So that would be your four. But so we got three council people that said they would want to go though. Oh, I did not hear that. I'm sorry. And still have a meeting. Stafford and Darmms. And oh, in the meeting. Not have a meeting, which would just mean we need to navigate moving it. Right. So sorry to be complicated. Oh, we're just trying to figure it out.

So I mean I You already have three council people who want to go and yourself, but then there would only be two paid. So, who's who's paying for theirel? I know, Stafford, I'm sorry. I know you said you were. You know what? We need to stop being trying to be sarcastic up here. Let's get get about the business. Let's get about the business of the city. We only need two people to go. Uh, excuse me. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm trying to figure out the solution to the problem here. So, so that the people that want to go can go, right?

What do you think? Darmms night and staffer. We're not up for public comment right now. Sorry. We'll we'll come out to you in a minute. And then myself. So, I think my suggestion would be let's get a consensus going forward. Like if there's a consensus on sending four people or a consensus on sending two and then work it down from that. Okay. That work. Okay. Maybe send two in the Let's do a head nod first. Sorry. It's okay. Let's do a head nod first. If you'd like to send two, yes or no? Yes.

We got two yeses. Okay. Do you want to send all three council members and the city manager? Yes or no? Okay. I just think Okay. So, that's your Okay. So, consensus is sending four, which would be three council members and the city manager. This would all get worked into your motion. Just Yeah. Okay. All right. And are we okay with it being the council members that expressed interest? So it would be Darmms, Knight, Stafford, and Christine. Are you okay with that, council? Yes.

Okay. So it looks like and then what do we want to do with the January 27th meeting? So we do have Thursday the 29th available. I'm just not sure what time everybody would be leaving Tallahassee or getting back to Do you remember that last day? Do you remember last day? you came home. I'm just curious. Teresa, do you remember what we did on the last day?

Yeah. Did you cut Did you stay over and then drive home the next day or were there things you did in that morning? She had um some meetings that morning that we checked out. So probably she's going to pull it up on the count. Do you know if you checked out on Wednesday? I remember it was a year ago. Oh, if I can interject, I'm looking at it right now. Jan, it says Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday. Looks like capital visits on your own until from 9 to 12. I don't know if they stop you at 12 or if they let you continue, but that's on Wednesday. So, that's that's capital visits. Um, but what she's talking about is that we had our own meeting set.

So, maybe we we can't pick when our meetings are. They do, unfortunately, because I was going to say it would be great if we could say, well, we can't be there the last day, right? But they actually tell us when they're available and when we can get in there. So it's really we're at their mercy to be honest with you. And so it could be Thursday. It could be. But there's no guarantee right now until they they would get with Kaylee and tell her what you know what days are available. Gotcha. So, while we're working on the meeting to keep this thing going, um, Councilwoman Knight, did you say you would pay for your own?

Yeah, I can find my own accommodations. Okay. So, then we would then it it would be down to just being two that would get paid, right? I mean, by the city, which would be yourself and Councilwoman Darmms, right? So that would kind of be a good meet in the middle thing for what you're looking for, Councilwoman Stafford, as far as just having two paid, right? See, that's what you're saying. No, that's what you weren't you just saying that you wanted only two to be paid for by the city, right? We're trying to get there. Excuse me.

This is a council discussion. Okay. Sorry, it's getting late, so things are getting a little, you know, Councilwoman Darmms. Okay. I've been involved in

not this kind of thing particularly, but with uh situations where it always approved, it always appeared to be that more people that represent what they're trying to uh get across works a lot better than just one person showing up. So, I that's why I'm in agreement with this. That also being said, I wouldn't mind paying for part of it. You know, I can discuss what I what I'd be willing to pay to help out because I understand this is not our money. I know that. And I would like to do what I could to, you know, make sure that we're doing the best thing possible for the constituents. That's how I feel.

Any other discussion about that? And we'll get back to the meeting. Go ahead. Did you want to say anything? So, um, looking back at last year, it shows that it did end on Wednesday and came home on Wednesday. So, the suggestion would be to keep the the course as what we've outlined. Um, plan to come home on Wednesday and have the meeting on Thursday the 27th. So, I needed you all to look at your calendars to see who all is available on Thursday, January 27th, so that we could get that notice out. 29th. You mean the 29th? 29th. 29th.

So, Monday, Janu January 26th is I would think Tuesday. Oh, sorry. Is the 27th. I got my days. It is the 29th. I stand corrected. Thank you. I'm available for the 29th. Moving the city council meeting to that day. Yeah, I'm good. We have a good out of town. Okay. So, we'll get that noticed out.

I guess this is the kind of a tough one. Are there any specific legislators that people should be uh set up with or do we just reach out, get as many appointments appointments that we can and then slot fill the slots? What is your recommendation? We have because we won't be together. We're gonna have to divide. So recommendations is obviously to go to our sponsors of the Senate and the state like we did last year and um and then we just kind of I mean Kaylee didn't we just kind of reach out to everybody and we got meetings with finance and whatever was affecting what we were asking for. Right.

Good. And then Woodard and Curran also has lobbyists available that assist us in getting meetings. Yeah. Right. Right. And then no no assignment for the individuals at this time. We will fill those slots once we have those appointments. And then just please know that those appointments, a lot of them are going to be last minute. They likely are not even going to schedule those appointments for that week until that Sunday. um because they do not schedule them ahead of time because they are unsure what house reps and senators are going to be in Tallahassee for which days and which weeks basically until like that week

um so just FYI it's probably going to be a very very last minute schedule that comes out for meetings unfortunately

and then so is the consensus is the city paying for four or Two. Two. Okay. And Councilwoman Darmm says she may chip in for her portion a little bit. I'll talk to you. Do we need a motion? Do you think Motion wouldn't hurt? Okay. Okay. How do you want that motion to Okay. So, we're sending four, but two are paying for themselves. And who's paying for themselves? These two.

Okay. So my motion, well not my motion, but the motion I would suggest would be to for the city, you want me to say it? That one? Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to make the motion, but I would suggest the motion is is that the city will send uh four representatives from our city. Um, and two will be two will be uh paying theirel and one will pay a partial and the other one will be paid by the city. Does that sound okay? It does. Um, I would say that Fran, I just want to double check with you just because that motion it would kind of like

Yeah, you'd be stuck to it. Yeah, you would be stuck to it. Stuck kind of stuck paying that partial even though it's not specified. But that specify how much because this is a this is a document that's going into record, right, council? It is.

So if we say you're just going to pay a portion of it, you could say tomorrow I'm going to pay a dollar, right? No offense. I'm just saying. But you you may want to state how much you want to put towards it. that or I would say that the city um the city basically pay for the trip and then those council members can reimburse the city any desired amount or I mean this is kind of a hard motion without knowing exactly what it was. No, that's just the rooms. Yeah,

the rooms are around $2,000. Um, and then we would typically pay out like mileage, reimbursement, um, PDM for meals. Meals are going to be very expensive in Tallahassee.

You want to pay a,000? Okay. So, we'll state in the motion. Does somebody want to make restate that motion? Oh, I would think it would be Sorry. Okay, it's good. Okay. Council member Darmms will attend legislative action days, reimbursing the city $1,000 of the cost of her trip. Dana Knight will be attending legislative action days. And is your are you going to be a full reimbursement? Full reimbursement? I'll just pay for myself.

Okay. and then would um reimburse the city the full cost of her attending legislative action days. Council member Stafford will attend legislative action days with the city paying for the trip. Christine Davis will also attend legislative action days with the city paying for the trip. Um and then I would let's do that one first and let's move the meeting separately. We can I or you can restate it however you want. I I don't think I said I would reimburse the city. I said I would make my own arrangements.

So they're saying that they will pay ahead of time. Can she do that? Cuz it's under she's attending a city. Okay. Yeah. So my understanding was that two people were being paid in full. Okay. That's so restated motion that council member Lisa Stafford and council member Dana Knight would pay for their trips in full by themselves. That council member Darmms will reimburse the city $1,000 towards her trip for legislative action days. And the city will pay in full for Christine Davis to attend legislative action days from January 25th through Thursday, January 29th. So moved.

Okay. Okay. Okay, we have a motion. We need a second. We have a motion. We have a second. Any public comment on this? Come on up. Patrick Murphy, 678 Swan Range Road, Blue Springs Villas. Really quick, I think you're losing an opportunity if you don't bring the fire chief and pay for his way. Okay,

thank you. Anybody else? Public comment Ellie Massie Patland Avenue City. This might be a stupid question, but if you've got four ladies going to this function, why can't you put two in a room? Just tell me why two ladies can't stay in a room for four nights, council, will you address that?

Are you asking me, Madam Mayor? Yeah, I'm sorry. Um, there could be some employee employment like type issues when you force people to to room and board together. Well, I'm not saying force, you know, they can decide. I mean, you can you can ask if they're willing to do that, but we can't force them to do that. Well, I I understand that, but I just didn't know why it wasn't even brought up to save half the money. Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman Thompson. Uh to touch base on that, would we want to not um risk Sunshine Law as we stated before? That's what I was thinking. Good point, too. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point. That's the first thing I was thinking actually. And nothing will preclude us when we leave here. If we find ways to reduce the cost, we will work to do that. What those those are

any other uh public comment? Come on up. Christina Bertr and Catherine Avenue, you know where I live. Anyways, um I was going to ask that the mayor doesn't go to this because of all the allegations against her, but clearly she's not going. And I find it laughable that I'm sitting out there listening to all of you and there's so many of you who aren't available for this and it's so important. This is the day that we get all of our money. Really? This is the only day you're going to lobby for us in 3 days. You're not working on that now. You're not making connections. I'm so confused. Like as a human being just sitting out here, I am really confused. This is the only three days and you can't even go. Rumor is you were asked not to come back to some of these things. And being a bully up there doesn't represent us very well. Pushing your way into people's offices sounds like I wouldn't want to talk to you either. So what kind of representation is that? And I'm sorry, but if four women are willing to give their time and effort to go up there, we should pay for it. Or maybe one of them should step down and send the guy who needs the building. The guy the guy who can make the connections and say, "I'm the man who runs into the building on fire." Okay, let's be smart. Bring one of them with you. Okay, let be smart.

I'd like to comment on that. First of all, there's more than one guy. There's several departments that we're trying to cover. And

and second of all, um it's not that easy to go. Well, first of all, I can't go this time, but I've already been putting the work in all year. Just so everybody knows, I've already been to the legislative sessions. I've been to the senator's office to try with with uh Chief Long and Christine Davis. Where is she? there. So, I've already been putting the work in, okay? And I have something personal that I need to take care of because my friend is dying, okay? So, if I have to put that out there, I'm sorry. My sister-in-law is dying and my friend's dying and I'm going to spend some time with them, okay? So, I'm sorry I can't be every day for you for mayor, but I put a lot of time into this city and I do everything I can for everybody. So, I am I'm confident that the council will go there and they will do the same because they care just as much as I do. Okay? And if the council was decided that the council was going to go, I don't think are we going to change that now because we we already made a motion, right? I'm I'm starting to get delirious because it's after 10 o'clock, but you know, let's stop the nonsense here. Let's move on and let's get our business done, right? We already know that we have we have it set here. We have the days. We have the people. We have the finances. Right. So, where do we need to go from here?

We did. Okay. Roll call. Kaylee. Council member Richardson. Council member Darmms. Yes. Council member Knight. Yes. Council member Tian. Yes. Vice Mayor Grim. Yes. Council member Stafford. Yes. Mayor Marks. Yes. And the motion passes for those uh four people to go with the finances that were stated before. Thank you. Perfect. Okay, we're moving on to city manager reports.

Thank you. All right. So,

mayor, council members, Christine Davis again. So, for the city's manager report, I'm going to highlight I I've updated um this report. I'm not going to go through item by item because I have at least one kind of heavy lifting item and I I don't want to um keep us any longer than we are. So, right now, what's been distributed is the city's manager report as of today. Uh the item that I'm going to be briefing you on that is on this report is the school and uh the OSU elementary school and some information that we've received from the school board. So, the school board has answered the question about ownership of the building and the ownership of the building. Um, in order for Orange City to take ownership of the building, we would have to relocate it. We do know from Young Bloodoods in Sanford that to relocate that building is not an option with regard to the building being um salvageable. It would u not make it through any type of move move because it's so heavy. it would have to be cut into so many small pieces to reassemble it. They have said is not feasible. They originally said that they needed an answer by the end of December. Um but then they've applied a little pressure to Joe recently. Um so they're and I don't know what answer we give them. There's no good answer here. Um it's just not an ideal situation. Um, but with regard to to knowing what the mayor has previously laid out, the ideas of a farewell ceremony, they were agreeable to. Um, I've asked the our city engineer, John Peters, to look at the removing that piece that you and Joe and I met and looked at that they have done and we are just waiting on a cost estimate to take that piece and we've um, Mr. Peters has identified a location at Mil Lake where we could move it and

erect it as like an entrance way to our future like band shell. Um the warning I got today is that it's probably going to be quite expensive. Um however, you know, it's just a matter of we don't have a lot of time. They wanted an answer by December 31st and now they want an answer as soon as possible, but there's really no answer. Can I ask you a question? Yes. So why all of a sudden is it at the end of December? I mean, they said it would probably be a year before they would demolish that building. We were in the same meeting as you are. We do not know what's changed. Um they they the I could read you the email if you'd like.

Well, no. No, I believe you. I just there's a movement out there now. There's a group of people that are that have uh reached out to I received my first email today from them,

right? That they they're trying to save the building. And I mean, we have to explain that um passively, if you will, right? because it's a very touchy subject with everybody that all the generations that went through that school, right? And so, and I want to make it clear that I don't think I mean I heard it before, most of us council does not want that building to go down. It's just we can't afford to take it over because it needs so many things. Is that correct? Well, our the preliminary estimates that we've shared previously that were provided from that original report, there is no funding for this building and we do not own the building, right?

So, the only way we could invest public funds is number one, what is the public p purpose? Number two, where is the money coming from? So, I can't stay stand here and say there is no money other than there's no nothing budgeted and we don't own the building. And in order to own the building, the county has or the school board has said the building has to be relocated. So we know that we So that's right. You said we can't even keep it there. No. Right. That's what we have in writing now. So So and it can't be moved. So that's that's pretty much dead in the water then, right? I mean, I'm just trying to put this what I'm hearing. Um and so now I'm trying to convey that because can we call another meeting with the uh school board just to make sure we're all on the same page like we were before? And um because

we can ask them for a meeting. At the end of the day, if we can't move the school because it'll fall apart, we can't keep it there because they're saying that we can't keep the land. They need the land, which that's not what they said in our last meeting. Right. And cuz they said they always they didn't know the answer. They did not say they could give us the land. Right. Right. They that's why they were hesitant to answer the question because they felt confident that the building would be, you know, something that that the school board would relinquish. But the land they did.

And the movement that I saw, correct me if I'm wrong, but the movement that I saw was um that they were going to get uh community sponsors to help pay to bring this building back to life. That's what I read. And I mean, if they could do that, that's great. But we can't move it. So, I think we need to put that message out clear that we can't move the school because it'll fall apart, right? We can't since we can't we can't keep it there because the school board's saying that they don't want that.

No, it's got to go. and and we're going to the only thing that's left is what we suggested was to take a piece of the school and memorialize it in one of our parks to say this is a piece of Arn City Elementary that we can at least remember the school by and all the generations that went through. But also we would have a viewing and that's something that the school board did agree to was let's have a like an open house. the community comes in, they take pictures on the steps, they they have their last viewing of the school that their families or their traditions went through, right? Or um I'm not saying the right words, but so that was that's where we're at that we need to make that clear to the community that it's not us. We we would love to save it, but we don't have that um choice, right? So, I just wanted to put that out there on public record because it's that's a controversial thing, too. And I don't think that anybody up here, including yourself, should be blamed for this because we have fought and tried to save it for the community. So, I just want to make that clear.

Councilwoman Knight, and if I recall correctly, the gentleman who spoke um at the elementary school the day that they did the ribbon cutting, they want that land. Reuben, school board member. They want the land. They don't care about the building, right? they want and need the land because it's such a small parcel of land. So that was another thing he and another thing that they mention is to keep the school on that land. There was no parking hardly for any kind of use. I think Joe could go

he he was there like it only has so much parking. It's in the middle of a neighborhood. So, what are you going to put in there that's going to be a good use that's going to fit that parking um right diagram. So, there was a lot of moving parts in it, but I just wanted to Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, we're you you're reiterating what

important stuff. It's just it's not our building. The city does not own it today. There is concern. I did speak to a resident today who has concern about what's happened in the past and the fact that it never came back to council. Um, so you know that that's just there's going to be these are going to be some pretty hard conversations and um it's it's it's going to be uncomfortable. I just I I don't see any way around it given the circumstances um and the pressure that the school is under and now we are under to to react to that. Um so it it's it's it's unfortunate but to be fair this council was kind of including

we were kind of blindsided. We didn't even know this was happening until it was happening. So it's not like we could save any, you know, we did as soon as we knew, we reacted, right? We tried to figure out what what the solution was. Yeah, that's true.

So unfortunately, that's that. At this point, uh the school kind of is looking for us to acknowledge that you're aware that the building would need to be moved, that they they need the site. Um, I'll report back to them or Joe, one of us will email them letting them know that we told council delivered the message. I think we should also include in that the fact that we want to schedule that um walkth through the look back the fair, you know, the to keep them to that agreement. Um, we will continue to work with Young Bloodood to get the quote to move the piece of facade. We will also share with them that we are interested in taking that piece and and moving it. Um, but we you just have to see what the cost is. I I I don't want to ask you to agree to it until I know um what I'm asking you to possibly agree to.

Can we call a meeting with them one more time just to reiterate, make sure everything is I I I think that would be we're all on the same page because it really switched it. It kind of flipped really quick. We just met what, a month or two ago. The the fast button got hit. Um because we were thinking it was a year. And to be fair, the people that we met with were um not authorized to say a lot, right? To be right. Like they were we got to check with the school board on that because they're just like us. They make the decisions, right? So we were talking to staff to be fair. So um and I don't know how we could go talk to the school board unless we attend a meeting. So are you asking to get on a future agenda?

I think we should. Okay. Well, we can ask for that um and see. Are you okay with that, council? Think that would be a good idea. Sounds good.

And meanwhile, we'll communicate with staff um regarding the three items, which is uh we want to meet with the we want to come to a school board meeting. Uh we want to do the farewell walkthrough and we are interested in relocating the entrance facade. All right. Um, next I handed out a rather large sheet of paper. We had 11 responses to the lobbyist. The all the information has been sent to you all in an email if you'd like to look through it. Um I would suggest that you ask staff to weigh in and then you guys then at the a few we don't have a lot of time but due to the length and the the volume of interest we did get it's going to be very timeconuming. It's about 156 pages to review. Um unless of course you have some other direction you'd like to give me. But this is the 11 um lobbyists that have uh submitted in response to the RFP or the RFI that we put out and um unfortunately timing is not on our side with having them in place um until maybe January at this point. So I I I sorry to report that as well. Are there any questions other than staff will we'll will comb through these give you some weight um suggestions but then you guys have all the information because it's so cumbersome and we'll bring it back on the 13th for further discussion.

Okay. Okay. Questions. Councilwoman Richardson, you want to go first? No. Council Stafford.

Oh, by all means. Once again, I'm confused sitting up here on this DAS. Once again, I am. If we're paying, if the city is willing to have a budget for $10,000 to send council and staff for lobbying to Tallahassee, why, as council person Dorm said before, why are we paying for lobbyists? Why would we need to purchase a lobbyist to go and lobby for us when we have Wwood and Curran that charge us nothing and have the two people to do whatever? Then we're going to have four or five more individuals up there to represent us. Why would we need to pay for another person which I don't feel is going to be cheap to do our lobbyist lobbying? I'm I'm not understanding.

Okay, I'll go. Like I said, you get what you pay for. You want to invest in the future of our city or do you want to save money and not try because this is serious business. If you want to cancel the lobbyists, I'm okay with it. I I I'm just trying to help this move along so that they can have their fire station, they can have their police station. If if the council is not on board, let's cancel it. I'm okay with that, too. I just made that suggestion, but I'm not stuck on it. If you think we should save that money and not invest it, then good luck because it's a lot. When you go there and see what you're what's in front of you, you're going to see it's a lot. And you you're competing with a lot of people. So Woodard and Curran. I'm not really sure like what I know they're one of our lobbyists, but

it's it's actually Woodard and Curran is our consultant and through them we have access to Gray Robertson who has actually put in a a submission. Um but you know it it it does go back to what you the amount of money you spend is the amount of representation you get. and we are getting representation, but I'm going to argue it's a little bit right now through wood incurring because um there's just not a lot of free services out there. They look at our legislative requests that that we draft up um and then they get them in sometimes. This year we did it all on our own

um and submitted them directly to um Senator Wright and um uh Representative Gentry in the years past, but they will help us, but it's it's on a a spoonful kind of they're not ours. Um, so this was the new business item that Mayor Marks brought up where we wanted to look at what are our options and these are the options that are available to you all. And like I said, it's just it's a lot of moving parts. It's the legislative sessions. It's getting in front of the senators and reps and all that. Understandable. Understandable.

Excuse me. Let me finish. I got the floor. It's also it's also um Woodard and Current I think is awesome. I think they do a good job. But the question is council, do you want to take it to the next level or do you want to keep it the way it always has been? I mean that's that's I'm flexible because the bottom line is it's like the grant writer when we approved the grant writer. If we don't spend money for a grant writer, we can't write grants to get money in this city. And when McDall was here, she was getting free money all day long, right? Is she still with us part-time? Yes. Okay. She's a consultant as well.

So, it's that's what I'm trying to say. She she did that and she brought us a lot of free money. That was her name, right? So, um that's all I'm trying to do is just get these facilities for the for the, you know, for the city. That's all. But if you don't think that that's, you know, if that's too much money, then let's scale back. You know what I mean? Let's scale back and let's just go this year and try, you know, for the minimal and see what happens. But the longer we put this off, there may not be money there because we have been building a momentum. Last year, we went and we got it passed through to the governor with a lot of hard work, right? We go this time, we do the same thing. We we just hope for the best, right? So, what do you want to do, council? It's getting late. Well, I wanted to make a suggestion if I may.

Okay. So, I know this was what you brought through for new business and um the city staff went through painstaking information and got us this spreadsheet. It's great. I love it. Um and and who uh submitted requests to bid for it. I think that we should at least look at listening to some of these companies come in and give us the presentation if they're willing to do so or if they only wanted to give us that and maybe we can summarize it. But my point is is that at least because we don't know what we're doing up there, right, we can try. Yeah, we're going to go and try.

Right. Right. Exactly. And I think we should and I don't think that we would be able to hire anybody by January anyway. But my point is is that they we could at least see what they have to say and their expertise behind it doesn't cost anything for that. True. Right. That's my suggestion. Council, someone want to weigh in on that, please. Council Knight, you got something to say? Do we pay what it incurring for that? She just said we do pay them a minimal amount, right? It's when we utilize them for specific projects. Right now, we have them under. So, it's only when we when it's utilized, we pay for it. I could send them stuff now to look at and I would not get a bill.

They're a consultant. They they work on getting us money and then helping us with the design on the other side. That's that's part of their program. Yeah. Madame Mayor, I just want to say, yeah, the flip side to that is, you know, we're up against Deerry who has two lobbyists. We're up against Deltona that has two lobbyists and they just got a new fire station, too. Exactly. So, that's what I'm saying. And look around Valuchia. You know,

they have lobbyists. They have they're getting things they're getting things done. Do we want to get things done or do we want to skim back? I mean, it's a hard decision. Think about it. We don't want to um spend, you know, the money like it's nothing, obviously, but we also are up here to make decisions on how to move the city forward. and have habitable facilities, right? Or, you know, good workplaces for our employees. Um, so it's it's a hard decision. I'm sorry, but I just I already told you how I felt. I need you all to um what do we need from here? Well, at this point, the plan is for me to bring back after staff looks at it some recommendations. Um, what I'm hearing is it's one of two things. We're either going to come back in January with a staff review or we could go the route that um council member Thompson mentioned and that would be do a little bit more homework, bring them back, do some interviews, let them do some presentations and maybe move toward this um for next year's session because it's either we engage them soon and I don't even know if it's feasible in on January 13th. So that that that I just need one it's either a fasttrack or not fasttrack item and and staff will work to bring it back to you based on that direction and you can consider at that time whether to invest in this in this option

and if I can interject that would also give the time to see if it's successful this session. So there we go. Say that again. It'll also give the opportunity to see if it's successful this session with the four staff members going up there. I agree with that. Yeah. Agree with that. Okay. Okay. I got my marching orders. Now, my last item. Okay.

Um I would like to recommend or ask if council would consider um based on the the hard work that our city employees do and perform throughout the year. We respect I respectfully request that you consider granting one additional city holiday. And that city holiday would be Friday, January 2nd. Um, this if if if approved, this would be consistent with what action the state of Florida has taken and Deluchia County and has granted this holiday. So, I I hate to bring that on to you, but that is my um request that you would consider that if possible. And what's the financial on that?

It's the same for any holiday. Uh your general offices are closed and your essential operations are out. There's some implicit costs based on the the the your two union contracts that say if you have a city holiday that there the compensation is different for for those individuals. But outside of that, it's an it's it's a in largely an implicit cost because your offices are closed and those per those personnel are not working. They're getting a benefit. Um and then the hard cost would come from uh the overtime uh implications for your uh essential services. Okay. Do how many holidays does the city of Orange City uh recognize? I believe 11. 11. Yeah.

Oh, is Rebecca still here? Can you confirm 11? I'm sorry. She's, you know, 3 months in and I'm calling her out on the spot. It's either 11 or 13. Do you need a certain time to make this decision? Can we table this until No. Uh, can we It's kind of late to be making decisions. I'm sorry to spring it on you. I saw that it's being done by both the state and the county and I know we we we pay attention and I thought it would be something that would be nice to offer our employees. I mean I definitely would like to hear what they have to say but council are you okay with just tableing this till the next meeting? There is no next meeting. There is no next meeting. There's no next meeting.

You have to you either have to say yes right now or say no and and we will understand whatever your answer is. Okay. All right. We we do not make you shake your head yes or no if you'd like to do this. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Unless you have questions. No. My agenda. Okay. City clerk. I have no report. Okay. City attorney. Madame Mayor, nothing new to report. Okay. All right. Any new business? Okay. Uh, yes. Go ahead,

Madam Chair. I have something that I would like to for the council to take in consideration. I would like to ask if we can have an investigation into the sunshine law as to whether or not um staff council anyone was in violation of it. And doing that investigation, what I would like to see happen is it be independent independent from everything else to investigate it. So we sitting on the dis uh any type of implementation anything stating that we were in violation of that of that. Um

Mr. Waters violation of the sunshine law is a secondderee misdemeanor. So that would be a criminal investigation. So you're asking to for someone to perform a a criminal investigation

into and I I don't know of any agency that proactively performs criminal investigations. They have to act on a complaint. Uh someone has to admit to a violation. Someone has to file a police report that has to be investigated. Um I'm I'm not aware of any independent auditor that will look through city records to try to find sunshine violations. So long story short, it's crime. Police, the state attorneys, attorney general, Florida commission on ethics, whatever state agency would investigate it. And once again, could you explain to me how that can happen? Because I really feel like I really do feel like um we're threading a very narrow line as to whether or not this has happened within our city. And to be fair to all, be fair to all. I would really ask you to please direct me, if none of the other council people don't care to do it, that's fine and good. As to what do since no one else care, I need to do. Can I make a suggestion since this is uh it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong. It sounds like this is something that you want to do. I don't know if anybody else wants to do it, but maybe this should be something that's not held through a council meeting. This is something that you have to have your um do yourself through whatever agency like he's saying to do that. Um the um what's it called? The the board of ethics or something like that. You're going to have to do your research. Um, am I wrong with that? Please.

Uh, the Florida Commission on Ethics usually handle uh voting conflicts and and ethical things. Um, state attorney handles crimes. Of course, police department handles crimes. I don't know if you want your own police department looking into it because you might want to ask for an outside police department. Um, so basically, you have to have evidence of a crime.

And what I'm getting at is this is not new business that we're going to bring back. We're on new business right now. So, is that is this a correct forum to bring this up under new business? Because then new business is something that we um um council, if you will, I might not be using the right word because I'm tired, but this might be something that an outside agency has to do, not us, right? Is that correct?

I I don't think you could or should investigate yourself. Well, I don't either, but I'm saying like we're on new business, the new business item, which usually under new business, we will bring up something new that we want to bring back on a future agenda. And I don't see that this is that. I feel like this is more a a personal thing that has to be um um sought or I can't even talk anymore. May I recommend if you'd like to contact me, um I'd be happy to discuss this with you and discuss all your options. Thank you. Okay. Are we good? Thank you.

Okay. Any other new business? Anybody? Okay. We're moving on to the approval of minutes. We already did that. Um, council mayor's comments. Um, Councilwoman Knight, do you have anything? No. Councilwoman Stafford, you have any comments? You know I do. You know I do. And I have several comments. And which one do I start with? I'll start with this one. Um comment is creating a hostile work environment for our staff and Chair, your public clash and failed attempt to fire our city clerk Kelly Bers have drawn public criticism. You choose to ignore the community wishes and request by proceeding with your failed attempts to terminate Miss Burlington and in doing so you have drawn more negative attention to this mounting controversy surrounding you. And no disrespect to anyone, we have said it over and over again. She's an outstanding clerk. I don't know what we need to do to stop the attempts of having her feel like her job is in jeopardy. I really don't know what we can do as a council to stop stop the bleeding. Stop the bleeding in our city. Every member of our city should feel like they're important and they count and they matter and no one should feel

threatened, intimidated if they decide to come to work in our beautiful city. That's one of my biggest slogans. Welcome to our own city, the most beautiful city in the world. You get that hometown feeling. This is not happening lately. We have a young lady that really cares for all residents. And like it was said before, I haven't just gotten here. I've been here for 60 plus years. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of this beautiful city. And I can still say it's a beautiful city because believe it or not, I'm invested in this city. And believe it or not, it is my city and my community. It really is. I really feel like I have that ownership. I really do. And to me, when one in my family bleeds, and this community is my family, we all bleed. When one in my community is attacked, we all are attacked and we all care. So no matter who it is, whatever decide to stick his head forward and attack one of ours, just like the young man, he's gone now. When he came up here and he talked to me, that was the one that spoke. The 11year-old King

when he came up here and spoke, know what he told me? You ask him to come and speak in his behalf. In your behalf. That's not right. That's not right. That young man stood right here and I told him I told him I told him at that time we are all your community. And that one young lady that was sitting back there killing calling him a ghetto child. The reason she did that because you know what? When nobody else cared about him, she cared about him when he was walking the street and had nowhere to go. She cared about him. king when that king

that one individual that was saying ghetto child and the reason she was saying ghetto child was because of the the the

the message that was in the messenger that's why she was calling him that remember that where you came from and who you are we are better than that this city is better than that so you know it's it's it's a shame that we have so much division vision in a beautiful city where people could come and feel that hometown spirit, that love, the genuine love. And you know what I thought? I thought, who would have known that I could smile in a person's face and two seconds later, I could talk about them like they don't even exist. Like they're are animals. Like they're are animals. That That's not right. I'm above that and I pray to God that I never can stoop to that level. And I have a lot more to say, but I'll save it for a later date. Thank you,

Councilwoman Richardson. Councilwoman Tiamson.

Yeah, I do. So, I spoke with a director um she's the executive director of Blush County Transportation Planning Organization, TPO, with regard to the roundabout situation that we've been talking about. I know some people out in the audience are are um interested in that. So my question to her was, bless you, if uh the Florida Department of Transportation, if they had any update for us as far as the um the I4 Ultimate, if they were going to start that Rhode Island project. And from what they're telling us is that the the transportation improvement program, the TIP, they have approximately 12.5 million design funding for the segment of I4 between 1792 and US472, but it's allocated for fiscal year 2830 at this time. So, we're not even they're not even moving forward with the I4 Ultimate until years from now. They don't have a a date certain at this point. Um they said that uh she's going to circle back around probably after the holidays, see if there's any more movement on that. But for right now, because I know that was a a hot button as far as the dump off from I4 onto Rhode Island with regard to the roundabout that we're discussing, there was people wanting to know about that. So that's what I've had to impart. That's it.

Thank you, Councilwoman Darmms. I hope everybody has a wonderful, wonderful, blessed Christmas. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I'm good, thanks.

Just have a couple announcements. Um, I got a message from David Sosa to invite everybody to Wreaths Across America. Um, Saturday the 13th at 11:30 a.m. at the cemetery on Saxon in Orange City. if you you're all welcome to come. I wanted to congratulate our uh leadership crew that just graduated from the leadership class. I know that's pretty intense. I know some of you are in here, so I want to say congratulations to that. Um, as far as just to reiterate what, uh, Councilwoman Stafford had said, um, you know, if we want to move on and continue to run the city, we have to get along and we have to, you know, I I keep hearing all these things from the community, be kind, and, you know, she's not kind and she's this and she's that, but look in the mirror because you're you're attacking me and you're not being kind. So, why don't we all just be kind and move on from this? Because it's not we're never going to get city business done. Look how many hours we went through with all of this nonsense. It's like we don't have to like each other up here. We just have to do a job. We just have to get it done, right? And I'm going to say publicly, I'll apologize for, you know, holding the special meeting, Kaye, on your mother's surgery. That was not my intention to hurt you that way. It was my intention. I felt like it was something that had to be addressed quickly. And I will say I apologize. I shouldn't have acted so quickly on that. Um I mean I'm not too, you know, I'm not too shy to do that. I will apologize for that. I think that you were right. I shouldn't have done that. Um I'm willing to work with you in the future and try to, you know, work this out. Um Christine is now our city manager. She's up there now. I'm sorry.

move around. Um, but if we're going to do this, let's do this. But you can't rally the community against me, the mayor, and and think things are going to get done here because we all have we're all a team. We have to work together, right? So, yeah, that's your second time. Second time, deputy chief, please. Thank you. I have to say that there's a lot of hostility

police department. Thank you, Lisa. Merry Christmas, everybody. Thank you. Can I have a motion to adjurnn? I'd like to make a motion to adjurnn. Mayor second. We have a motion. We have a second. All in favor say I. I