Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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All right. So, it is 6 o'clock. We will go ahead and get started with our joint city county planning commission work session. Um, we'll start with the city of Cusbay Planning Commission roll call. Uh, Chair Stevens is absent. Commissioner Amy Agiri absent. Commissioner Davis here. Commissioner Miller here. Commissioner Marino here. All right. Now, we'll go ahead and move on to our county commissioners. So, we're going to let our county commissioners introduce themselves, everybody that's here, and then we have two currently online. County vice chair. I'm I'm sorry, gentlemen. We have to hit the button on the microphone or we can't hear you. Whoops. Joe Agiri, Cous County. Todd Buholds, Cous County. Diana Shab, Kous County. Joanne Hansen, Cous County. Okay, thank you. It does look like we have a few individuals that have signed up for public comment. Dean Lundy, before you do that, Dean, I am so sorry. We're gonna introduce the two county commissioners that are online. Sorry. I'm Matthew Borders. Who's County? Todd, can you hear us? Okay. All right, Dean, we'll go ahead and have you come on up.

Thank you everyone for keeping the open comments. I'm all for expanding the German district. I I came here this evening to talk again about pedestrian and bicycle safety. We've had our first fatality there. I was here a couple weeks ago talking about the intersection at I think it's 101 speeding thing. Um we've we've uh the uh Oregon division division of transportation has known about uh the public wanting to connect the boardwalks uh northb bridge all the way to downtown bay which I think would be a wonderful thing for the city. There are no bike paths or pedestrian walkways uh connecting 101 that corridor. There's a sidewalk but it's like Cuba. There's power poles in the middle of the sidewalk and fires. I haven't seen it in a in a city. The last letter that we got back from from ODOT, I'll read it not for anyway. We we told them, you know, we've been trying to get some kind of infrastructure slowing down the speed since 2012 that happened, which was before I started in on this, but I'm on it now. Anyway, dear Mr. Mundy, this is from uh uh probably Glenn Patterson would hold up. Dear Mr. Mundy, I'm writing in response to your letter dated January 15, 2025. This letter uh requests a detail the letter that I sent requested a detailed outline of what they were going to do along the corridor. ODOT and here's what he could say that ODOT continues to work with both the city of

Kbay and the city of Northbend on coordinates coordination efforts looking to leverage targeted safety programs to implement incremental safety improvements in the area that are in alignment with both cities and community needs. For example, planned improvements for 25 include enhanced crosswalks marked bike lanes, additional lighting on a segment of Newark in North Bend, and installation of audible pedestrial signals at five crosswalks along 101 and cousin. ODOT region 3 planning section is scheduled to conduct a corridor study in the 2025 2027 bianium. So they're talking about studying this area for the next two years. July 25 June July of this year so the middle of this year to June of 2027 is their study focusing on pedestrian bike and safety improvements. This study is ant anticipated to begin in the first half of the by bianium. So that's what they're planning on doing. It's another two-year study. We've already had the first fatality right there. And I don't know how many white crosses we're going to have on those hills over the next few years, but their study should uh come up with something. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dean. Okay, Mike Powder. Good evening everybody. I'm also involved. You know, I think we need some work around

here. It goes right through town. coming south 45 and 45 mile hour that cost people an extra time but 45 miles hour and quite frankly if you look at the DOT which I've got through so many times urban generally 25 30 mph 25 35 mph suburbs and 30 to 35 mph suburban commercial or residential so I think they're way out of line up it's ridiculous city so any also boulevard That's classified as my should it's a race and it's very bic those two roads really need attention of course So there are my notes on this. The other thing I belong to an organization called strong tax. Anybody heard of and I got there working on it people want to build more houses and you know it's not that expensive. This might be free, but they've got a

um the housing ready which is a tool which you can add in there. Let me show you about uh about where they're at. What they're trying to do is housing solutions as well as thinking outside the box. Um and they're six they're basically reforming reforming local government and stuff like that and getting more ads more compass. [Music] [Music] Okay, Chelsea, I think we're ready to move on to item 3A. Um, yeah. So, good evening, commissioners, city, and county. Thank you for joining us. Um, Jill Ralph and Amy Dibble from the county. Thank you. Uh tonight we have our consultant Jay Harland here with CSA planning to give us um a presentation, an update to ask some questions thoughtprovoking. So Jay, when you're ready, feel free to take the stand and fill us in. I just want to say too.

It's So again, so I want to first of work. So, no, we're not gonna go through that line by line. Jay, yes. Do you have the is the mic turned on there? good, right? Yes. Yeah, I assume. Um, so we're not going to go through it line by line obviously, but I just want to sort of overview of each of the technical work pieces. the tech memo two. Um the very first one was really sort of eng is is really sort of the regulatory history of how Bay the county and the city ended up where it is with respect to um the issues that we're looking at for this project. Uh pretty complicated I how I would describe it and a little bit unusual. Our firm does work all around the state of Oregon trying to

sort of avoid Portland metro if I can avoid it. Sometimes I get stuck doing something there. Um but uh definitely a little more complicated history in Kous Bay with respect to the some of these areas that are pretty intensively developed near the city when compared to most other communities. So that's really what techno 2 gets into is sort of the background is in how you sort of unit up where you are. Um techno 3 the main thing that does is goes through uh like a generalized goal 14 boundary location analysis. So go 14 is urban the urban statewide urbanization planning goal and um there's four boundary location factors that you look at when you're doing things like UGBS and um it just sort of goes through some of these different areas that are around the city and looks at them through the lens of states um boundary location factors and then it also lays out the sort of the draft regional problem statement Um and a draft region goal tech four. That one is really the sort of the technical underpinnings of why to amend the UG if the jurisdictions want to amend the UGB to include some of these areas. Why you have to do it through an RGS project? Um and the traditional urban growth boundary method would be very problematic. So for a minute, let's talk about what RPS is, right? So RPS is a re it's called regional problem solving. It's a statute that's in RS 197. And really what it does is it says if the local jurisdictions agree and they send it to the state and the state says BLCD says yes, we're okay doing your RPS project for this thing. What it lets you do is

have flexibility under the rules. The end result still has to comply with statewide planning goals on the whole, but you can have flexibility as it relates to the particulars of the rules. You got to comply with statutes. You got to comply with sort of the intent of the goals, but you don't necessarily have to comply with each and every rule and the degree of flexibility sort of that's allowed depends on the project. Uh to date, to my knowledge, there's only been one RPS project that's been done in the state. Um we did a lot of technical work for that one um in the Bear Creek Valley. And this would be the second one. Uh and so that's really what that one gets into sort of the why you need to you would need to do RPS to do a UV to include these areas. And then technical five is prospective and it's looking at what would the work plan be to implement an RPS project if that's the policy choice that is made by the board and city council. So recommended that by commission. So that's and that one is the one that I would say you know of the four that's the draftiest draft right because some of the choices that will get made will we'll make some adjustments to the recommended work program based upon the actual objectives and policy direction that we get from council commissioners. Next slide. So uh the full sort of draft regional problem statement is in that uh tech memo three but really CSA identified three primary regional problems. Um first three are really interplay. So the the standard uh method for many it's based upon a 20 population forecast that is done by um

the Portland State University center for population research and they project a 20-year population for an urban growth boundary and um and then that projection is translated to a land. That's essentially the demand part of the equation, right? So you take that population forecast and you also do employment forecast and you grind in how much estimate how much land is needed for that future population. Um and then the The last one boundary location uh problem is then that's in the normal process the normal what's called division 24 the administrative rule the normal process is then you you apply those boundary location factors and sort of rank the different properties by according to a priority scheme in statute essentially exception lands for bur reserves first priority then exception lands then marginal lands which county is not really two marginal lands county Washington County and Lane County. Um, and then lastly is farm and forest land. And then within that there's sub priorities where you have to avoid the best farm land and and so that's kind of how it works. At any rate, the um so those three things are kind of those problems are all interrelated and the bottom line is really that uh the state's rules sort of assume that really what you're doing is not transferring existing employment and population areas into a UGB that are already sort of highly urbanized. And the reason for that as I mentioned at the beginning is Tuesday a little unique in that most communities that have urbanized areas near the urban or near the city those were included in the original urban growth boundary establishments. So over

time the rules have evolved sort of under that assumption that those areas are already inside whose base case they're not. So there just isn't like this there isn't just like a formula to go yeah well there's already 7,000 people in this area it's already urbanized we're just going to add those to the UGB so PSV does the population forecast for the it doesn't include those lands and do the population forecast for the county they assume they're going to stay in the county and so you're sort of stuck and you can't you can't do what you believe based upon the standard rule so that's there's sort of those three basic problems. And then the last one is not related to the other ones. The last one is an economic development problem where those lands that are out in the county, it's really kind of a a restriction that's a function of what's called the urban unincorporated communities rule or the the unincorporated communities rule. And for commercial development especially, you're limited to uh in rural communities, which is Millington, uh 6,000 square ft of commercial is the maximum you can do. And then in the urban unappropriated communities, which is like Charleston, Baru, and Bunker Hill, you can do 8,000 ft of commercial. And the answer is like that's not a lot. Those are and there's some other regulations around hotels and 35 units or something like that, which If you build a hotel with 35 units, you won't be able to pay for your management staff. It basically doesn't work, right? So um so there's an economic development problem there in that those areas are restricted from being able to um make additional investments and CSA did some analysis of some of the commercial buildings that are in those areas and and you know there's some of them that are already bigger than that and 8,000 foot commercial building is very big actually and so like they wouldn't

be able to expand but if if they were in need to be, none of those restrictions would apply. And if you can make water and sewer and those things work, then you can um expand those buildings and those businesses. So those are the um the four basic regional problems that we identified kind of on the technical. Yes. A quick question. Um there's buildings that are larger than that in these areas already. So are you talking about new buildings to be built? Correct. In the in the commercial zones if it's commercial use if they like if there's a If there's a 12,000 foot building, technically they shouldn't be able to expand do an addition and expand that building under the under the rules. Okay. So, what about a lumber yard? Well, and that would lumber yard's a good example is like if it's if it's industrial and it's like lumber manufacturing that has some special industrial doesn't have that problem. The rule says it's limited, but if it was industrially designated, which all those were in Oh, there's a magic statute. It's like 2003, I want to say, where they basically the state decided we don't really care about industrial. Industrial can get as big as it wants. So, that part of the rule essentially doesn't apply anymore in the industrial areas, but for commercial, there's no sort of there's no go, if you will. So, good question. Next slide. So jumping forward to kind of what are the policy options uh for plan commission and ultimately city council. First policy option is kind of the noial option right that you always want to lay out. You always have the option of maintaining the existing regulations and not making any changes at all. Um that's

always an option. Um and then for the reasons described for uh doing the if you want to do some sort of YouTube, you really are looking at a RGS project because that's the technical path to be able to get there. So within that CSA has identified sort of four different options, right? We're going to go through the maps and talk through kind of those options. So one is a UT RPS project that we just looked at including that what we're calling the southwest which is basically Charleston and right a UGB evaluation that would look at the the Charleston bar area and then the Bunker Hill Bay Park area only. Then the um the next one would be to look at both sort of all both of those areas and then also to look at including the exception areas. I think probably everyone knows what an exception area is but I'll just explain it. Um those are areas that um there's not any the goal three and goal four the farm and forest protection rules don't apply to those areas. The county took took a little exception to those areas and so they're they're already zoned for a higher intensity uh more urban use some of them commercial some of them industrial and a lot of them are residential. And then the last one is to look at the UGB amendment for the Charleston Barbiew area, the Bunker Hill Bay Park, and then look at perhaps doing an urban reserve designation for um some some or all of those exception areas and the Millington area, which is a rural community designation. So, we'll kind of go through these areas. Next slide. So the southwest area again that's

Charleston bar both those areas are unin urban uninccorporated communities in the county's comprehensive plan. So what that means is they're they're already permitted to do urban intensity development right and they're mostly developed to urban intensities north of two units to the acre. Uh both those areas are served by Charleston Sanitary District and Charleston Fire District. They have water service from the Pew Bay Northbend Water Board. So they already have all the urban facilities and they're already developed to urban density. So an RBS project in that area is really transferring an urban area and an urban population into the EGB and then in a future population forecast whenever that's updated then that would be captured because those would no longer be outside the UGB those would be inside Kuz Bay population sort of counting. Next slide. So, the southeast area um is got definitely more going on as far as policy choices. Uh the Bunker Hill Bay Park is also an urban uninccorporated community. Millington is designated as a rural community. And then there's a couple other areas that are um relatively um high density zoned already. I mean, much more than what you're generally allowed to do in in the rural parts of the county. And those are the Blossom Gulch and the Libby area. And then the RR2 area is a is a rural residential one unit per two acres. Um but it's kind of in the middle of all of those, right? And so we um we looked at that as kind of a logical area. We did look at some other areas um like is heights and some of those areas, but

those are more removed. They're across the um the ISMA the ISMA slooh. So they're more they're a lot more remote relative to the city's and all of all of these except for Milton are at some point adjacent to the city's BB currently. Um and the south boundary is just is a boundary we sort of suggested which is shingle house road. There's not anything magical about that boundary. It's just sort of seems like a logical dividing line. Usually those sort of major roadways are where people tend to want to draw lines. Um the the Bunker Hill area is served by Bunker Hill Sanitary District. The rest of the areas don't have sewer service in this area. Most of them have water, but the other areas do not have sewer. Uh, as far as fire service, I mentioned in our project advisory committee meeting earlier today, um, I think this little geography wins the award for the most fire districts I've seen in such a small little area. Um, you have the Bunker Hill Fire District, which is really small. Um and then you have sort of the east side which is the Millington fire district area and then the west side is the Libby fire district area and then some of it is also not in a fire district which is primarily the port's property uh there on the north end is at least I don't think map fire again most of these areas are developed to uh urban intensity but the ones that don't have sewer are not quite as dense and that's because they got divide sites. So, next slide. So, now I'm just going to sort of go through, you know, the 10,000 foot like what are the advantages and disadvantages to the various policy

options. So, as far as maintaining the existing regulations, uh the main advantage is it doesn't require a lot of work. You can basically keep doing what you've been doing, right? And so um sometimes that's attractive that's a policy choice because you know work is work and and requires a lot of things to get figured out. Uh the disadvantages is that the land use and facility planning is mostly limited to the existing zone intensity. So there's not that's the way the uninorporated communities rule works and the stuff that isn't unincorporated communities is even restricted further. So um there really isn't an opportunity to maintain the existing regulations to uh make the land uses in these areas more efficient. So there's little things you know little partitions and things you can do but you couldn't do 30 unit acre building you wanted that those kinds of things would be problematic under the existing regulations for the most part. Um, the other thing is if it's not in the UGB, as a technical matter, you can actually enex land that's outside the UGB, but it doesn't really come with any rights, if you will, right? Like you can't get reszone to a city zoning. Um, you still have the sort of rural plan designation. So, it's a practical matter like even if property owner wanted to be next to the city, if it's outside the UVB, it's for all intents and purposes not really. There's do I think nobody really would want. So, um that's definitely a disadvantage of the existing regulations. Um the last one is depends how you want to look at it whether or not it's an advantage or a disadvantage, but fully updating all facility plans. There's a lot of and that's the main that's that's the main work task and the big ticket item is to figure out how to serve different you know these different areas that are

brought into. Next slide. So, southwest side evaluation only. So, if you're looking at just between bariew and Charleston as part of an RPS project, um there's definitely an opportunity to increase land use. You should see in that area some degree. Charleston and bar um has the advantage of it's kind of an independent policy choice. It's not since the sewer goes to wastewater treatment plant 2 and it's all bay northb water board and it has the charleston sanitary district. It's not really connected to the stuff on the east side. So a decision to include that area in the UT as part of an RPS project really doesn't have a whole lot of effect on what happens on the east side. So it's it's kind of an independent politics. Um and consequently it's a little less facility planning effort because it's a smaller geography and again it's you know it's kind of got its own things going on over there as far as facilities that don't migrate to the rest of the city. Uh we've gotten preliminary feedback from DLC. We understand they're would be supportive of an RPS project uh to include this area. So that's factor. Um the main disadvantage is there's not a lot of buildable land over there because it's mostly pretty well developed to urban intensities, right? Doesn't mean over time you might not get some redevelopment, but but the the net buildable land supply, we haven't done a full buildable land inventory. We do those, you know, when we're doing the amendments, but we definitely have looked at it and there's not there's not a lot of sort of vacant un uh unconstrained land to develop over there in terms of creating a significant net buildable land supply to the city.

And um when you're doing a UGB amendment in the normal process, that's the main thing you're looking at is adding net buildable land to meet the need and make it so the buildable land supply you have equals the need that's not met within the system. Next slide. So the next policy option would be to um do the Charleston Ardu area and then also do the Bunker Hill area which is the other area that's a permanent incorporation. Again there are opportunities to increase land efficiency in those areas. Um, I think it's also relatively straightforward uh for the UGB evaluation through RBS to tie that to the regional problems and explain again what you're doing is sort of transferring this existing population that's not captured in PSU forecast into the um UGB. The facility planning wise, it's it would also be limited to areas that currently have the full complement of urban services. You got Charleston Sanitary District in the southwest and you have the Bunker Hill sanitary district in this area in the city. So it's a little less complicated. Again, we've gotten some feedback on that and he is supportive of doing that as a RPS. Disadvantage is really the same as the prior policy choice. Bunker Hill's pretty well built out, so you're not getting a lot of net buildable land from doing this. doesn't mean it's a bad idea, but it's just isn't going to add a lot of net buildable land to the base lands. Next slide. So, the next slide would the next policy option would be to include some or try and include some or all of those

exception areas in the RPS project that were on the prior on the prior map. Right? So, the Libby, the Blossom Gulch, ington are our two variants sort of the donut hole between those other ones. Uh this would definitely yield the most yieldable land and the maximum opportunity to increase urban land efficiency in that area. Uh would have the most regulatory benefit if growth in the region accelerates because you would be adding more net building land. So if growth seems like there's definitely more things happening in Cous Bay. I've been coming here for 20 years and it seems like there's more happening in the last sort of five years than what I remember previously. So things are starting to happen. Certainly there's some pretty major economic development things that are being talked about at those come to fruition. It would provide a way to be responsive to that new demand that is currently captured in the forecast. Um I think it can still be explained from the standpoint of uh regional problems but it's definitely I think would be more there's more work involved explaining how these a UGB amendment would add on those areas um will address the regional problems. So disadvantages and the first one's a big one um it's the require the most extensive facility planning when you when you bring land into PGB you're under statewide planning goal 11 which is your public facilities planning goal and also 12 which is your transportation planning goal you really are sort of committing to figuring out how to serve those areas right with facilities um and you're making a commitment in your facility planning process to figure out how to do that. Now that doesn't mean that you know doesn't mean that new development wouldn't be asked

to pay a significant share of what needs to happen but even just your prioritizing like it's hard to justify like not doing certain kinds of projects if it's needed to serve your entire DP. So it's a it's a it's a bigger commitment. Uh and just looking at some of those areas, topography and some things like there's and existing conditions of some of the facilities in those areas like definitely there's some expensive some big let's go with big ticket there's some big ticket items to kind of um to make that a reality. Uh in in conversations with ELCD um they have some concerns about including potentially uh one or all of those exception plans in the PTB um I think partially due to the facility planning requirements and also um that this policy option would be requesting the most flexibility under the rule. Right? the the previous two you're not you're still sort of requesting flexibility under all of the division 24 rule but it's really urban to urban right and so it's a little easier to sort of set it up and explain that really what we're doing is putting the UGB probably where it arguably should have been in 1982 we're fixing that problem whereas here we're going to be also accommodating future growth doesn't mean it can't be done, but I think it requires more technical work and a little more justification. And um the way RPS works is it does require the county to agree, the city to agree, and then it goes to the state, and then the state has to sign off on the work program. So, you know, to move forward, there's going to need to be would need to be agreement from ELC. So, next slide.

Um so this was CSA's sort of when we really thought about it our kind of meet in the middle solution um with respect to some of those exception areas. This is the consultant recommended approach for for the RPS project. I don't none of these policy choices are wrong. We just see this as being kind of the most advantageous. So, what this would do would be to include in the UVB the Charleston bar area, the Bunker Hill area, and then designate some or potentially all of those areas as what's called urban reserve. So what urban reserve is is urban reserve the countyy's regulations still apply and the you're still in a rural area but that land is the first priority to come into so at such future time as they like analyze like if you get some growth and the projections go up and it's like we don't have you don't have enough housing in your UGB and now you can basically do the math we need more then that area is the first priority. Uh we do a lot of UTV amendments. I can tell you they're much easier when you have an urban reserve designated because the no just the sheer number of parcels you have to analyze is much less. And essentially to have a a robust UDB amendment, you have to analyze parcel by parcel the best situated parcels to include in the UDB and meet the need. So, um there's there's some real advantages to doing urban reserve. The other thing is when you designate something urban reserve, um you have a urban reserve management agreement. And often what is

done is counties typically don't want to take away development rights in those areas, but you can manage them by coming up with some design standards. Right? So, I'll just use the harder two area as an example. Some of those have some fairly decent sized parcels. There's no really big like 200 acre parcels or anything, but there's some tens and some 20s in there. So, if somebody came in with a, you know, with a 10 acre piece, right? Um, you could they could still be zoned for their density of one house per two acres to get their five houses and lots out of it, right? But you could have some design standards that allow the the lots to be smaller. So maybe it only consumes 2 and a half acres. They do their septics on the other remaining land and then that has to be set aside for future urbanization. And then when sewer's there, you can disconnect the septic systems that connect to sewer. And so that's something that um that's pretty common actually in those urban in urban reserve areas. And it it sort of prevents the chopping up, if you will, of some of those parcels that might be available for more intensive urbanization in the future. If you end up with a bunch 2acre pieces and put houses right in the middle of them, it's not that it can't be redeveloped, but it's going to be really hard, right? And so that's I think an advantage of the urban reserve. Um again there's an I mean pretty significant regulatory benefit if growth of the region accelerates and you have more demand if you are going through the standard process um but you have an urban reserve it's just it's much simpler because that's the first priority for inclusion so you really only have to analyze those lands I shouldn't say you have study area under the rules you still have to start with this big study area but you quickly get

to the first bin And you only have to really look in depth in the first bit of land which is the features. So for example standard process like the ismas heights that would either all or mostly all be in um would be in the study area and because it's exception land and and the R2 or where the Libby is exception land those are the same priority. you're going to have to analyze and sort of evaluate each lot lot by pretty much lot by lot is what you have to do. It's a lot more work. So I think there's an advantage there. Um I think I think it can still be explained from the standpoint of regional problems and it's again a little bit of a kind of splitting the difference of the amount of flexibility for the urban reserve part. The amount of flexibility you would be asking for under the reserve rule in my opinion is quite narrow. Still the bigger flexibility in RPS by far would be transferring the existing urban populations in those other areas into the UV. Uh the urban reserve plan is done on a 50-year demand basis and the rules are somewhat more flexible than the UV rules. So the amount of flexibility would be requesting under RPS for an urban curve area is much less. I don't think it's a ton more work if you know there's an interest in doing that on the east side. I don't think it's a lot more work to add to reserve component once you're doing all the other things. Uh disadvantages DLC I think is still talking about this option. I mean I don't it only sort of occurred to me maybe a month ago just all of a sudden I was driving working on well what if we did those areas preserve doesn't have the facility um oh that was what I was going to say the which isn't on here but uh oh yeah the facility planning the

facility planning for urban reserves is you're not committing an obligation to essentially serve those areas but if they're urban reserve then you kind of consider them in your facility planning and what you might need, but you don't as a city necessarily need to upfront make the same level of facility investment to serve those areas. So, you consider them, but things that are, for example, big ticket items that you don't know when the demand might appear. Yes, sir. Dean, can we separate you two? You're you're distracting. Yeah. So, the um Oh, yeah. Uh so the um so it gives you more flexibility in the prioritization and sort of for lack of a better term like the cash flow of public facility planning because you're you know it's really hard on public works directors to gauge when new demand is going to appear that's going to pay for new expensive things right and urban reserve you you make some development assumptions but when it comes time to act time you really don't need to for example put in your finan finally constrained list anything to serve the urban reserve area right can leave those out but you are thinking about them so an example is if something in your facility plan you can add marginal capacity to serve that area right maybe it only cost adds 10% of the project but would really make that urbanization of that area more economic in the future then you can make that choice in your facility planning and go yeah we're going to spend 10% more to have this capacity. So because redoing it all in the future is going to be very very expensive, right? So um that's a I think a pretty big advantage. Um the you know the other the big disadvantage is you still have to do

limit in the future to include those areas. Yes, you narrowed the scope of it, right? But it is still a limit and that is still another planning process in the future. Commissioner Hansen has a question. Can I ask a stupid question? Absolutely not. What if this urban growth boundary is expanded by the city? What happens to the taxes in that area? Who pays them and who pays the taxes to whom? Uh so it doesn't result in any changes to people's taxes? None. Um no it it no it doesn't really it doesn't. Well, no it really it can't change. So because it's unincorporated, it doesn't change the status of the tax situation. Yeah. Un unless it's the I mean there's a couple there's a couple parts to that, right? One, using the commercial example where you're currently limited, right? And and say somebody has a a a 9,000 foot building right now and they can't make it bigger under the rules, right? Um and that restriction would go away. And then if they did a major improvement, well, that's going to hit that's going to hit the tax rules, right? But there's not going to be city taxes associated with with that unless they annex. Unless they annex. Yeah. Yeah. The annexation is where the um where the tax changes. Now, one thing that happens, so there's sort of there's like multiple steps. First is UGB amendment, right? then is facility planning and figuring out kind of how you're going to serve these areas. Then there's a process where you um from that you um adopt new a new urban growth management agreement of how are we going to manage these areas that are inside and that's done a bunch of different ways. It's really just worked out between the city and the county. There's

it can be it's just sort of whatever the community thinks makes sense. Right. Right. That's typically the case if some amount of development is allowed in the county, but if new major facilities need to be extended, then the city says, "Well, now you need to come in the city." Right. Right. That's that's typically how urban growth management agreements are are set up. Um, but is the just for another question which is really stupid again, you're just asking about the process. So let's say that they are annexed in they want to be annexed into the city. Don't they have to apply to the city to be annexed? Correct. And then the individuals who are in their urban growth boundary have to vote against it and or for it or whatever. No, as a property owner you can petition. Okay. So if if if you meet the petition requirements and those are in the statute. There's a couple different ways to do it, but if you petition, generally usually the city will say yes, you can come in the city, right? The current situation right now being outside the EDB, technically you could be enexed, but it it wouldn't come with any benefit, right? Like you couldn't get resed or have any of things that would cause anybody to ever want to be. Okay. Uh and there's uh Thank you. Oh, yeah, sure. No, and I'll tell a little kind of uh example story. There was a similar thing in the in the other RPS project done in the state if you guys are familiar at all with the Medford area, right? There's um Medford is the bigger city, right? And then there's a smaller city to the south called Phoenix. And between those two along between basically between I5 and highway 99 there was similarly a very intensively urban area way back when the UGBS were first established. The county wanted one of the cities to take that area. Neither

city wanted it. So they they really that was holding up the UGB acknowledgements for both of those cities. And then finally the county said, "Okay, fine. What we're going to do is put a policy in our plan that says when either of you does a UGP amendment in the future, one of the two of you is taking this thing because we don't want it anymore. And so that got adopted as a policy. Well, then when RPS came along for the for the Rogue Valley, which was not a UG project, it was strictly to set up urban reserves for the different communities um uh for there were six RPS cities, five of which reserves of course said we have reserve need to grow um Eagle Point didn't have um and so so again that policy came forward right and the county really said the same thing like one of one of you guys is putting this in your reserve ultimately Phoenix decided we'll take it part of why the cities didn't want it was because they were like well it's going to be kind of hard to serve it has its own water and we don't know, we don't think any of it will ever enex, right? So, we're going to have this thing, but it's not necessarily going to do us that much good. Um, and so then in 2021, the Alita fire came and it all burned to ground, including the including the Charlan Water District. Like their pumps just melted into a pile of goo. So, there was no water, like zero water for a big area. Now they need what's that? Now they need the city. That's right. And so that's exactly what happened is all of a sudden then they were all quite interested in annexing to the city, right? And so the city was because it was urban reserve and the city and because it was urban reserve, the city wanted to include some land on the east side of the freeway. So they had already done the UGB amendment

because it was baked into the RPSK to transfer that population to Phoenix. So the UGB was line was already moved and so the process really didn't most of the process was figuring out what to do with the Charlotte water district. But once Medford Water Commission and the city of Phoenix worked out how that was going to work, the annexation that nobody thought was ever going to happen was widely supported and it all happened very very quickly. Right. And of course, you know, nobody wants that kind of disaster or anything like that, but it's more an example of sort of how setting the regulatory framework to potential possibilities then can set the table for dealing with a very bad situ. If they would have had to start from ground zero due to UGB and all that, those people would I mean those lands would still be sitting there, a lot of them not redeveloped, whereas most of that area has already been rebuilt. So um so that's this one. Um so you know those are sort of the four choices. Next slide. So key considerations a couple um selection of any of the policy options except just leaving the regulations as they are is that sort of decision policy direction at this point is the direction RPS project would take right that doesn't necessarily for example if if the decision was we want to look at urban reserves in these exception areas and we want to include Charleston and bar trying include Charleston our view and Bunker Hill and the the actual RPS project is when those decisions will get made, right? So, it might be the county and the city when they ultimately get into it, they've got the I don't see a lot of benefit from even making the Libby area urban reserve like it's got houses on it and yet and

where there aren't houses are like canyons and so I don't know necessarily how much urbanization of that area is going to be a benefit. It might be that those people show up and they're like we don't want to be included even included in reserve, right? So, um and that's the public process. That's what's supposed to happen, right? That's why they're sharing and get input. So, um it's that's really is the policy direction now is if an RPS project is going to go forward, what's going to be included? And then that will sort of that we need that input to refine the technical 5 and sort of finalize what the work program would look like to actually do an RPS project if that makes sense. Next slide. So we're kind of at the this is now the discussion and sort of getting the PC's feedback. There really is I don't think there's a wrong answer here. There's not like there just isn't except for the county and the city needs to be agree this side of the room needs to agree with this. Ideally, this side of the room or that side of the room agrees and then when it goes up to the county and and the council, the board and the council, they definitely have to agree or you don't have an RPS project. So, um that's critical. I I sort of previewed this a little bit, but getting that policy direction technos 3 through five are really the guts of the consulting work that we've done. They're in draft form. they would they'll be finalized and we we we will incorporate sort of that direction into uh the final versions of those tech memos because those tech memos especially three and four set the foundation for why you would be doing the RPS request to the state. Um, and

then I didn't go through all the the regional problem statement and the goals and objectives and the actions and the incentives and disincentives and the corrective actions. Those are in uh the drafts of those are in tech memos three and four. Uh like I think probably like feedback through staff and you know comments to staff on that probably in writing is the most helpful way to advance that. I I do want to put a disclaimer on that which is those aren't normal planning terms. the the goal and the goal problem statement. Yes. Goal and objective. Yes. Actions, incentives, and disincentives and corrective actions. Don't know where those came from, but they're in statute. So, you have to put them in the agreement. Um, and uh we we started maybe get creative and then in working with the lawyer on the project, we both agreed there's only been one of these else in the state. So, we're going to start with that agreement as the template. and they're actually working on the the legal structure of the agreements right now. So, um, so I'll answer questions about them, but I'm not going to take ownership of why it they use those words because they are sort of unusual words that don't exist in any of the rest of the language sort of world. So with that, I mean, I'm happy to answer questions or open it up to discussion or you might have questions of your staff or and and I should have said way from DLC is here. So if you want to bring her up to the podium and put her on the spot, I think she's happy to answer those questions. I didn't get prior. She knew I

So I'm happy to answer questions. I'll get started. Sure. Mill jump in um in regards to Millington. So my my background in real estate and I do a lot of commercial investor. Okay. Um in regards to Millington and in your tech3 it talks about including that in the UGB would lift restrictions on commercial and industrial development. Yeah. Primarily commercial. Okay. My question the square footage we do talked about how Yeah, it's I mean it's it's really it's the square foot. It's the square footage limitation on commercial. So the industrial that's been industrial since if it was industrial I think the magic year was 2003. The legislature sort of woke up one day and decided we don't care how big industrial things are outside if they were already industrial. So they passed a statute to say we don't care because that's mostly what we have in military big industrial. I'm working on one now trying to get some development there. That's right. You also mentioned in here could uh eliminate regulatory conflicts between management plans. Is there any? Yeah. Yeah, that is again on the commercial. Some of the eststerary management plan stuff is pretty it suggests like for water dependent uses that things are pretty permissive. Yes. Right. But it's not really reconciled with the with the unincorporated communities rule. So this would be a way to get that problem to go away. Potential problem. It hasn't really come up. Nobody's made a thing of it. But, you know, but there's, you know, it's and really like some of those water dependent uses under those goal 16, they're supposed to be encouraged, right, in those in the areas that are found to be appropriate for using estuary because estuary is an asset, right? That doesn't exist everywhere. I mean, there's only, you know, there's only three deep water ports in all of Oregon, right? And this is one of them.

So, um, so that's an like a side benefit of this is to eliminate any murkiness around that issue. And the only other portion I'd say is I think you made a great point about the commitment to big ticket items when including these rural areas into the UGB. I think we really need to think about both us and our recommendations of who's going to float the bill on the big ticket items and if we're going to make the commitment like what is the capacity for waste water treatment two right now and one and you know they're they're not going to take all the a lot of what we're going to put on them here if we do expand those out recommendation. So, who's going to buy us a new wastewater treatment plant? And I would tell you, I do a lot of work with developers and and look at the developed tracks. And it's I don't know if we're going to get developers to go out and build new subdivisions out these rural communities and they have to flow the wastewater treatment plant. Um, I'm just having better luck putting systems in the county. It's just cheaper than developers. So that's the only thing I would encourage student to think about is if we make the commitment for I mean clearly like you say Punker Hill and Bar seem like a no-brainer. They're already there. They already have it. But to do some of this additional items I don't want to make that commitment to the county or the city without a lot of consideration who's going to float that. Yeah. And that I don't know if my development Yeah. And that's and that's a little bit where the urban idea came in. It doesn't require you should think about it, but it doesn't necessarily require you to function. Yeah. Right. There's geographical restrictions as well. We got Oh, yeah. Put it across the bay. You

know, there's like sewer line across the bay. I I did a development project in Bay. Um got approved. It never got built. But I remember I almost fell out of my chair when I was when the public works director told me how many pump stations there were in Cous Bay. Like Medford has four and they hate all four of them, right? I don't I can't remember what the number was in but it was like 18 or something and I was like okay. So yeah, it's a that point's well taken. I do I do think there's the other side of that, right, is that some of those areas have net buildable land, right? And so that also can create a revenue stream, especially if you do like an urban renewal and do some do some um tax increment financing. That's a way to finance that and doesn't essentially the development pays for it. They're not front end any of it and they don't really end up paying any more than they they pay the same taxes as they would have paid. It's just then those taxes go to the need facilities to serve the development and then eventually the urban retire. Yes, thank you. This been very informative uh particularly your story about bear valley. What intrigues me is that by doing this effort uh we can have a resilient community. Heaven forbid that some the ban around here and is hanging out without any support because we have to go through a bunch of administrative groups that we could have started today rather than five years down the road. So that's to me that's insurance. My question to this group is Joe mentioned capacity in respect of pumping stations but I'd say capacity for us in our planning I know our county

planning and city planning we capacity or is DLCD gonna come to our rescue and do all this stuff for us? I'm staying out of that one. I know. I just It's not a real question. It's just something that I keep in the back of my mind whenever we're doing these because we're still dealing with No, the remember that one. Yeah. So, we got some big ticket items and this is a reflection of a lot of these plans were done in the 80s. We've got a lot of these things are going to come up in the 2025. So I keep thinking in capacity. I mean so so that did that came up with the QA city council when I was here in February. That exact question. I guess what I would say is the the planning part of the lift is I mean it's work and it's some money but it's not like a massive amount. It's the facility planning that is the facility planning and then figuring out how to uh get the you know the urban growth management agreements um worked out and any special district changes because one of the things that can happen right is that you know if properties start annexing and you have like a small fire district and then they keep getting transferred out of the fire district but some of that fire district serves the world still serves the rural area in the county. Now all of a sudden that fire district doesn't have enough revenue to operate. Nobody wants that to happen and there's ways to there's ways to work it out. But what and there's templates, but what there isn't is a formula that you can just press a spreadsheet and get the answer that makes sense for Kuz. It does not work that way. There's there's templates and sort of ways to approach it, but it it that part of it requires work. and

and and it needs to be thoughtful because you don't don't want to end up with special districts that end up in financial trouble that need to be there to serve the rural areas. I can see you have a question. I think you have a question. The capacity of Kuspace plant one is growing I assume this is that correct um plan one I'm not sure Jennifer Woring our public works director would be the best one as far as growing capacity you mean with the improvements we're making I imagine the answer is yes I'm not the expert and plan two I believe has some available capacity for her. Um, and and I would be also remiss when we're talking about unique things about Bay that you also have a whole bunch of lands that are in the tribes trust that none of these things apply to, right? Um, and and which makes it complicated, right? And uh um Jensen the tribe is on our project advisory committee in our in our meeting today. That was a whole conversation, right? Um and so, you know, how does that affect this? I don't really know if it does like on the regulatory piece, but when you start getting downstream to the facility planning piece, what the tribe has in the works, right, can really affect what might make sense to do in certain locations, right? but they're also a potential, you know, a potential partner in that. And I think those are things they're open to, at least based upon the conversations and my experience with the

flow. So, some of these areas that have north water, but they don't have a sewer system. Could you make the lots smaller? Um, It's not a it's not a septic issue. I mean, you have to have so many square feet to put in a septic system. Um, and it seems like that has that regulation has something to do with the the size of size of area you can build in. I mean, for instance, in the country, it's R5 or R2. Um, could those come in a little bit if if you had water and they they generally do have water, but they don't have sewer, right? So, which is some of reflected with the zoning, right? Sort of the one unit for two acres is about the size you need for house set field. If you have water, two acres starts getting a little small. If you if you if you have neither water, then you need room for a well that's adequately separated from the sewer surface, right? So, and the current county zoning allows the current county zoning, like if you have four acres and you go to Jill and you have furniture on on one of the roads, you could come in and get a partition and divide that four acres into two tubes. That's and do two separate sets, right? Um, going back to what I was mentioning about the urban reserve, what you could do though is is for bigger partial acres a little too small or three. But on the bigger parts of any housing design standard, it sort of clusters the dwellings so people can get the same number of houses that they currently get under the zoning. But the septics are also sort of clustered so that someday when and if that ever gets urbanized, then the septics can come out and that remaining area can be developed

at you know whatever whatever density the city and has capacity to search. talking about uh design standards and your your uh urban reserves. So, say I've got, you know, like just like you say, two acres house I'm going to build out there. Would in regards to um design standards with roads, whose jurisdiction would that fall under? The counties, like for instance, the county allows us to have gravel roads whereas the city requires paved, curb, gutter. So, so that's a I mean that's a good So, typically on two acres in your zone, two acres, you're not doing a land division. So, well, let's just say I'm RR2 and I'm building one house. Yeah. I mean, again, that's that would be in the urban reserve management agreement and it's something that could be negotiated. What what I typically would see, right, is that where you don't have land division. It's you just do what you currently do, right? That's typically what gets negotiated once you start doing divisions in those sort of areas. Usually what's in a urban reserve management agreement is a rightaway dedication for future city street, right? So you might have a 10 foot dedication that you need to do, but as far as improvements, probably what's there is what you're going to I would just hate to have a guy on two acres looking to put in a little gravel driveway have to pave a 60 foot wide curved and gutter road to get up to his house. Yeah. Which if we were under the city guideline, under city standards would be required. Yeah. and and well I mean it depends that's that's the stuff that's the stuff that's negotiated typically that would not be in a urban reserve area something like that can get negotiated as far as inside your urban growth areas but even still I think given the level of development and stuff

like those are going back to the planning work like that part if you're wondering like what's the planning commission going to have to do in this thing you've you've touched on it if it gets to At that point there will be more joint study sessions about the things how you want especially an urban growth management agreement and potentially and or an urban reserve management agreement where that sweet spot is right and when it comes to that stuff the other thing is the Supreme Court has made pretty clear that they don't care what you put in the agreement it also has to pass muster from a no what's called Nolan Dolan exactions loss and you can't go making people requiring them to do things that is not proportionate to the roughly proportionate to the impacts of their development. Right. So that's the other sideboard that applies not just in Oregon that applies everywhere across the land. Can you say it one more time? The um so it's it's the Nolan Dolan it's the Nolan Dolan case and then there was a there was a followup case which is the

Is your mic still lit up? I think so. Okay, we lost sound online. It just came back, he said. And literally like right when you asked that it came back. That was perfect. Oh yes. Sorry. So your recommendation short. I mean my recommendation is you can on board. I I really first policy question is we want to do anything on the east side because if you don't then it doesn't matter right if you just say we just want to focus on the west side as I mentioned it's independent it's not connected to the stuff on the east side but to me if it's like yes we also want to do Bunker Hill my recommendation would be to work with the state and try and get them on board to also do urban reserves for those other areas so you don't end up for lack of a better term, a weird boundary and you can do some silly planning around that whole area. That would be my recommendation. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks. Well, I don't have Oh, Jill magically gets quiet these days, but the rest of the time, not so much has been my experience. Yeah. Um, I guess I'll just offer that I think the city is most comfortable with the idea of the Charleston Barview um in the Bunker Hill, the ones that are already serviced um developed bringing