Housing and Land Use Committee (2025-2027) - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everyone. Will the Housing Land Use Committee meeting of July 29th, 2026, please come to order. It is 9.07 a.m. I am the chair of this committee, Nohelani U'uhajans. Members, in accordance with the Sunshine Law, please identify by name who, if anyone, is in the room, vehicle, workspace with you today. Minors do not need to be identified. Let's begin with Committee Vice Chair Kaunoi Batonga. Aloha and good morning.

Aloha.

Good morning. Member Cook, aloha and good morning.

Aloha Chair, good morning all. I'm in my Kihei office today and I'm in the office here and we have staff in the front room. Thank you.

Thank you. Council Chair Alice Lee, good morning, aloha.

Aloha, buongiorno. I'm here in my home office with my little kitty and waiting for the meeting. Thank you.

Thank you. And Council Member Gabe Johnson, aloha and good morning.

Buongiorno. Good morning. Aloha, Chair, Councilmembers, community members. There's no testifiers here at the Lanai District Office. And I'm alone on my side of the office here and ready to work. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Tamarapotin. Aloha and good morning. Aloha.

Aloha kakaya kakako, streaming live and direct from the planning conference room. Thank you.

Member Rollins-Fernandez, aloha and good morning. Aloha kakahiaka, Chair. Love these new wireless mics. Good job, staff. There are no testifiers at the Molokai District Office. Mahalo, Chair. Thank you.

Member Stenance, aloha and good morning.

Aloha, good morning, Madam Chair. No testifiers in Hana.

Thank you. And Councilmember Ukile'i-Sugimura, aloha and good morning. Good morning.

I'm in my Kula office and there's no one here with me at this moment, but I will have plumbers coming to fix my toilet at some point in the meeting. Life is challenging.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. We have with us Deputy Planning Director Ana Lillis from Administration, as well as Planner Wilton Leawanai, Fire Chief Brad Ventura is with us as well. The Director of Finance, Marcy Martin, Land Acquisitions Officer Guy Hironaka, and Deputy Corporation Counsel Nahululunukawa is with us. We also have project consultants with us from Minikew and Hiraga Planning Consultants, Mark Alexander Roy, Hoku Kruger, if that last name sounds familiar. From AHL Architect Garrett Horimoto. From AECOM Engineers Diane Kodama and Jessica Samura. From Keala Pono Architectural Consulting Cultural Consultant Gina McGuire. And from Maile Lani Design Landscape Architect Vivian Arita. Members, if there are no objections, I'd like to designate the project consultants as resource persons on the rule 18A of rules of the council because of their expertise on the proposed Haiku fire station. I heard no objections. Thank you. Also, we have with us today our HOU committee staff. Good morning, everyone. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. Members, before us today is R, Bill 89-2026, Bill 90-2026, excuse me, and Bill 91-2026, related to the proposed Haiku Fire Station project, which will be on about 6.1-acre portion of a 27.9-acre county-owned property identified as Tax Map Key 227007008 in Hamakualoa, Hawaii. Bill 89 would amend the State Land Use District classification from Agricultural District to the Rural District for the project site. Bill 90 would change the Paia Haiku Community Plan use designation from Agricultural to Public Quasi-Public, and Bill 91 would change the zoning from Agricultural District to P1 Public Quasi-Public District. The Maui Planning Commission reviewed the proposed bills and voted to recommend the approval to Council. with us today to share more about the project and to assist with our deliberations on the bills and our representatives from the departments of planning, fire, public safety, finance, along with the project consultants. I'd like to first ask Deputy Director Lillis to provide any opening comments, which we will then transition into a presentation on the project. Afterwards, we can receive opening comments from other department representatives as needed. So Deputy Director Lillis, if you may, thank you.

Good morning, everyone. Nice to see you all today. So I'll steal a line from our wonderful PPA, Danny Diaz, where as any good manager, you know, you get to be up here and take the credit for this wonderful project. But the work really does belong to Wilton, Leo and I in processing this very much needed fire station changes and zoning. So the administration just wants to state its strong support for this and is here to answer any questions. But I'll defer to the wonderful team here. Thank you.

Thank you. I know we have testifiers here with us, so I'll read this testifier language. So testifiers wanting to provide testimony should sign up in the lobby, which we have a makeshift lobby with us today. Join on the online meeting via Teams link or call into the phone number noted on today's agenda. Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via the e-comment link at MauiCounty.us. backslash agendas as well for individuals wishing to testify via teams please raise your hand by clicking on the raise your hand button if calling in please follow the prompts via phone star five to raise and lower your hand star six to mute and unmute Staff will add names to the testifier list and the orders as a testifier sign up or raise their hands. For those on Teams, staff will lower your hand once your name is added. Staff will then call the name you're logged in under or the last four digits of your phone number when it is your time to testify. At that time, staff will also enable your microphone and video. Please ensure your name appears in Microsoft Teams as a name you prefer to be referred as or as anonymous if you wish to testify anonymously. If you are in person, please tell staff you would like to testify anonymously. Otherwise, please state your name for the record in the beginning of your testimony. Oral testimony is limited to three minutes, and if you are still testifying beyond that time, I will kindly ask you to complete your testimony. Once you are done testifying or you do not wish to testify, you can also view the meeting on Alkalku, Channel 53, Facebook Live, or MauiCounty.us backslash agendas as well. We will do our best to take up each person in an orderly fashion, so let's begin with testifier. Testimony and staff, if you could please call the first testifier.

I'll share the first individual.

We can do the presentation for Munikyo. That's fine.

Hi, good morning, everybody. Good morning, chair, committee members, audience members joining us today. We really appreciate the opportunity to be here. My name is Mark Roy with Muniki Ohiraga. We're here today as the land use planner representing the county fire department on a very important public safety project for the community, the Haiku Fire Station. This project has been over 17 years in the making and has involved both site selection evaluations, extensive agency reviews, modifications to the project scope to respond to public input along the way, as well as outreach with the Haiku Community Association. An environmental assessment and finding of no significant impact referred to as a Fonzie determination has been fully completed and accepted for the project. As such, we are now excited to be here today in support of the land use amendments that have been requested by the planning director. These amendments are necessary in order for the project to move forward to construction. I'd like to now hand you over to my colleague, Hoku Kruger. She's online. We'd like to present an overview of the project and its plans for the committee's awareness and reference today. We also have the project team here to answer any questions that you might have during your review after the presentation. And on behalf of the entire team, I did just want to take a moment to thank everybody in this room for the consideration of these requests today. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I know we were trying to get to testimony, but I apologize. I totally skipped over a paragraph where it says to ask other people for opening comments. So if we could go to Hoku and then we'll go to Fire and Finance and then take testimony, if that's okay with you folks. Thank you.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Hoku Kruger. Thanks, Mark, for the introduction. If it's okay, can I go ahead and share our presentation?

Yes, please.

One moment. Okay, can everyone see my screen?

Yes, we can. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. So good morning, committee members. Thank you again for taking the time to hear the Department of Fire and Public Safety's proposed Haiku Fire Station and Related Improvements project and provide your recommendation on its Planning Director-initiated Zoning Plan Amendment application. Again, my name is Hoku Kruger, and I'm with Munukia Haraga, the Planning Consultant for the proposed Fire Station project, and I'll be leading you through today's presentation. So as I mentioned, we are here to request your favorable recommendation on the Haiku Fire Station Project's zoning plan amendment application for the 6.1 acre project site. The planning director on behalf of the Department of Fire and Public Safety is asking for the following amendments to the County of Maui owned project area. A district boundary amendment from agricultural to rural, a community plan amendment from agriculture to public quasi public, and a change of zoning from agricultural to public quasi public. We have a few members of the project team in person and online today to answer any questions you may have, including Fire Chief Bradford Ventura and Chief Ryland Yatsushiro from the County of Maui Department of Foreign Public Safety. We have Garrett Horimoto from the Project Architect AHL. We have Diane Kodama and Jessica Samora from AECOM, the Project Engineer. We have also Gina McGuire from Kealapono Archaeological Consulting, the cultural consultant for the project. We also have Vivian Arita from Maile Lani Design, the landscape architect, and Mark Roy and myself from Munukio Haraga. So the Department of Fire and Public Safety's mission is to protect and preserve life, environment, and property. They provide emergency and non-emergency services for the islands of Maui, Molokai, Lana'i, and Kaho'olawe, and the surrounding waters, and operate five fire stations in Maui County. Some of the emergency services they provide are responding to fires, hazardous materials incidents, motor vehicle accidents, medical emergencies, technical rescues, and natural disasters. And they also provide non-emergency services like public education. So at this time, I would like to turn the presentation over to Fire Chief Bradford Ventura to talk a little bit about the project purpose and need.

Thanks, Hoku, morning chair, morning committee. Thank you for having us today. You know, this slide is actually very short, but it kind of just gets to the point of the growth in the community and why the station is needed. We could talk about the needs for this station half the day if we really wanted to get into all the things. But what's not on the slide here are things like when Haiku Gets calls in the can I area fire station goes out to a garden Eden area. There are 2 hours at that point away from the community. And so a lot of times people just think that when you call 911, you're going to have a fire struck sitting in a fire station ready to come. But that's not the case. Our call volume is increased enormously over the last several decades. And all too often, stations and districts are being left unoccupied because of the calls that were on. This fire station is needed for multiple reasons, not just for the Haiku community, which will obviously reduce response times and help save lives in that community, as well as property. A lot of the structures out there are old, but there is a lot of new development as well that's growing and demanding our time out there. The rescues along the highway are increasing just this week. We had multiple calls along on highway due to the Hurricane Foster which is coming through our area and downgrading today fortunately. So the recent study that we did is called the standard of cover for our department and it identifies all the risks in the community, identifies how many fire stations that you need to match the risks in the community, the population size and so on and so forth. the fire station in haiku as well as olowalu and another one in central maui and kihei came up as prominent needed locations and even looking in some of our remote areas additional fire services are also needed in those areas but as we all know we'll get to the more rural areas after we get to the more populated areas first um i'll leave it at that like i said we could talk for on and on about the project needs and scope but this has been a long time project um that's been going on and a lot of time and effort's been invested in it and we'd appreciate your support of the changes today thank you thank you chief ventura

Okay, so to give you an idea of where the proposed Haiku Fire Station will be constructed, here's a regional location map. As you can see, it'll be constructed about a mile and a half from Haiku School and less than two miles from Haiku Community Center, which is near Haiku Community's historic incident areas. And to take a closer look at the project site, as you can see, it is located in Malka of Hana Highway. So it's not in the county special management area. And the project site, the 6.1 acre project site is represented by the yellow cross hatch lines. And it's located within the larger 27.9 acre parcel, which is represented by the outline in red. And you can see also that it's at the intersection of Hana Highway and East Cuyaha Road. And you can also see that the parcel is quite overgrown and hasn't really been used in quite a few years. So as I've said before, the new fire station will be located on a 6.1 acre portion of a 27.9 acre parcel owned by the County of Maui. And the proposed improvements include a 10,360 square foot administrative building, which will house offices, sleeping quarters, crew quarters, training and exercise facilities, dining and kitchen facilities, and other support facilities. functions for the personnel. Also proposed are a 1600 square foot apparatus bay addition, a parking lot, and other improvements, which include a water storage tank and utilities. Okay, so here is a site plan for the project. You can see that access to the fire station will be from Hana Highway down to the proposed fire station and Apparatus Bay below. You can see the water tank over to the right side of the fire station in this exhibit, and then some of the utilities, including the water line easement off to the right. Here's some architectural rendering. So the top image is a view of the fire station looking west, so kind of toward Paia area. You can see the cars coming off of Hana Highway to the right of the fire station building, as well as the fire station building and the apparatus bay addition to the back. And then in the bottom image, we're looking at the fire station building to the south. So it's as if we're standing on Hana Highway. And then you can see the water tank to the left there with the apparatus bay addition behind it. Then here's another beautiful rendition of the fire station building itself, which has been designed to be architecturally compatible with the Pa'ia Haiku country town guidelines. And the proposed project design is informed by the local history and character of the area and traditional design elements that are commonly used in Haiku town, including, as you can see, the metal standing seam roof over the apparatus bays and the sawtooth roofs over the living quarters. So to give you some background on the project, the project site was purchased by the County of Maui in December, 2007. And as my colleague Mark said, a chapter 343 Hawaii revised statutes environmental assessment was completed and the final EA and finding of no significant impact were published on July 8th, 2024. Then about a year later, the planning director initiated zoning plan amendment application was filed in July, 2025. So here's the district boundary amendment map that was prepared for the project. As you can see, the 6.1 acre project site is currently located in the state agricultural district, and the planning director is requesting a district boundary amendment to the rural district. As provided for in Section 205-5 , Hawaii revised statutes, public, quasi-public, and public utility facilities, such as fire stations, are permitted uses within the rural district. And the proposed district boundary amendment is in conformance with the standards of the rural district set forth in Chapter 15-15-21 Hawaii Administrative Rules. And as the project site is less than 15 acres, the district boundary amendment will be processed by the County of Maui and acted upon by yourselves, the Maui County Council members. Here is the Pa'ia community, Pa'ia Haiku community plan amendment map prepared for the project. As you can see, the subject, the subject area is currently designated as agriculture, and the planning director is seeking to redesignate to public quasi public. The proposed project conforms to the Maui Island Plan, which was updated 17 years after the most recent Pa'ia Haiku Community Plan Amendment Map, and actually includes the subject parcel in the Maui Island Plan's rural growth boundary. And lastly, here's the Zoning Plan Amendment Map. Currently, the 6.1-acre project site is within the Maui County Zoning Agricultural District, and the planning director is requesting a change of zoning to public quasi-public. And although the subject property meets the priority for attention in the agricultural district, the proposed project site was selected based on site selection and feasibility studies conducted by the Department of Fire and Public Safety in 2007 and 2021. And it's also the department's view that the construction of a new fire station on the subject parcel will serve a greater public benefit than the retention of vacant agricultural land. So the zoning plan amendment application was heard by the Maui Planning Commission earlier this year in January and recommended for approval by the Maui Planning Commission. So next steps after today's review and hopeful recommendation of approval, the zoning plan amendment application will be heard by the Maui County Council for hopeful approval as well. Then construction permitting will be completed and the eventual construction of the Haiku Fire Station. So to summarize our request again, the planning director on behalf of the Department of Fire and Public Safety respectfully requests the Housing and Land Use Committee's favorable recommendation on the proposed district boundary amendment, community plan amendment, and change the zoning request for the project. And that's all I have for you today. The project team is again here to answer any questions you may have. And thank you for your time.

Thank you. Do we have anybody else willing to do opening comments? I do see I have finance. Fire, was that part of your opening comments? Okay. Does finance have anything to say? If not, we'll move on to opening.

We're here to support.

Okay.

Thank you. Okay, let's move on to testimony then. So staff, could you please call our first testifier?

Chair the first individual up to testify is Leilani Miranda to be followed by Suzette Velasilda.

LEILANI MIRANDA Good morning council. My name is Leilani Miranda. I am a long-term resident of Hamakua, Maui, Kauhai, Pae'aina, and a board member of Malama Hamakua, which is the Makai lots that we co-manage with the county. Our goal is, for Malama Hamakua, is to implement traditional and Hawaiian land management practices. And we've done a lot of work so far, removing a lot of waste and reforesting the area with natives and food-bearing trees. I am here not in opposition of HLU-17, but the site location. I'm in opposition for the site location and the project specifically at Site B. I would recommend Location D over Site B due to the clear title issues in conflict with the established Kuleana Heirs clear chain of title to Royal Patent 383 under Richard Armstrong. With the county's policy regarding land acquisitions, nullifying the county of Maui's claims to land within the boundaries. So we're already in conflict here. Secondly, the Haiku Community Association, I heard them state earlier that is in support. They had also supported site delocation suggested by their meetings. So if you guys ever go to those, there's a lot of talk in the community. The site D has water access already. So although I'm hearing from the developers as if it's already slated and it's going to happen for feasibility reasons, it's not so feasible to purchase a 27 acre lot and to start dredging water lines from Kuyaha and East Cuyaha to support that. There's already a water line at Site D, and it doesn't afflict the land Makai. So we've been pushing for water access in Malama Hamakua. It's 400 acres. You know, if we plant, we need a water, things like that. This also We've also been trying to battle erosion. So this development with dredging would incur a lot of that. And we would, we would receive or be on the receiving end of trying to fight that or combat that. Yeah. Uh, also the site B, uh, where the planned water corridor installations will be in direct conflict with the areas of the Nalopi, Apana 4, LCA 3336 and affect all the lands Makai again. Sites D would incur less grading on the land, reducing the erosion and the location is for the inward, reducing the gap of emergency vehicle accesses towards Hana. We pay stations right there. Makawa stations right there. That's a small section to put another station when you can put it further inwards and access majority of Haiku. Haiku more than just that front end. It goes all the way back. So, um, Site D also is within that 6.2 acre, which is large enough for the current project that's planned at 6.1 acres. The excess land that the county says is to... Oh, the notes for Site B in Cuyaha state that the balance of the lots may be subdivided or allocated for other municipal purposes, suggesting... um, suggesting that the county is used, you know, going to utilize it for more development. And, uh, like I said, everything that happens, Malka trickles to Makai, uh, having to get proper permitting to evade say D and incur conflict with the current. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. So evades idea and incur conflict with the current residents. and neighbors of Site B location. So we're trying to do things with the community and for the community. So we need that good standings to say that we support the heirs and their assistance to help us with cultural practices and water access rights.

Thank you.

Mahalo.

Members, any clarifying questions? Go ahead, Member Palte.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Miranda for your testimony. Can you clarify, I'm not familiar with site D. Towards Holokai.

It's towards Holokai? Yeah, Holokai Street. So Haiku goes from, I don't know how they do it with, but the division for Hamakua goes from Maliko all the way towards K&I. So that's a large gap that we're leaving in between. So Holokai would be more central with a direct line up to Kapakalua, which reaches most of the subdivisions and towns downwards. So there's top road, bottom road is Hana Highway, top road is Kapakalua, and that serves for the top access all the way down for the residence areas. But everything that happens inward of that, more east, is really like, where do we get this emergency access? You know what I mean? Because there's like five minutes from Paia, five minutes from Makawau. If you just move it a little bit inwards, you access all those people. And that to me is more comprehensive.

If I can clarify, I live in Napili. So you're continuing on Hana Highway more towards Hana, or is it more up towards the top road?

No, so Holakai is, if you're driving eastward on Hana Highway, it's before you hit the gulches and everything where Honopo and Twin Falls is. It's before that.

Okay, but off Hana Highway still yet, on the Mauka side?

Yes. Yes. There's North Holokai, Amakai and then South Holokai is Mocha. But there is a land slated there that the county had purchased 6.28 acres. And it's just to me I'm hearing the words feasible. It just makes more sense that it's more feasible. It's less grading. It has water access and there's no conflict with any errors or cultural practices.

Thank you. All right.

Members, any other questions? Let me double-check online. Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you. Next testifier, please.

Chair, the next individual is Suzette Felicilda, to be followed by Kanani Pu'u.

Aloha, good morning. Good morning, Chair, committee members. Thank you for the opportunity for testifying today. Aloha, my name is Suzette Felicilda. I am a Kanaka Maoli of Kawaula, Kanaha, Kahoma, Mualii, O Lahaina. My concerns of today's agenda should be a concern for all who's here. I am a Lahaina fire survivor and my town is still in recovery mode. My concern is the misuse of initiatives pertaining to the Lahaina Recovery RCD number nine for the agendas that are not for Lahaina's benefit. Stripping allocations from funds for Lahaina Recovery to fund this project is a big NO, no. Shame on all of you who has contributed to this agenda. We are stripping. We were stripped once from this fire. We the people of Lahaina are still recovering. We are still rebuilding. We are still trying to reinstate our lives. The funding is allocated to Lahaina. Leave it to Lahaina. On another note, throughout this meeting, to the administration, please explain of the sources of this $15,181,000 of federal funds that were appropriated for the fiscal year of 2026 for this project. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Members, any other, any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony. Oh, I'm sorry, Member Palten has a question for you.

So, When you're saying the $15,181,000, that's funding that was previously allocated for this project and no longer because of the new federal administration, is that the money that you're referring to or are you referring to CDBGDR monies?

Well, I'm referring to the CDGE. CDGE. CDGR.

Okay. Sorry. And then is that separate? The $15,181,000 is a separate issue than that or the same?

The same.

The same? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other clarifying questions? I don't think we have any others. Thank you so much. Next testifier, please.

Chair, the next individual up to testify is Kanani Puo, to be followed by an individual calling in with the last four digits of 4945. Good morning.

Good morning. Aloha kakaiaka. Aloha, Chair. My name is Kanani Puo. I am of Lahaina. Not from, yeah. I stand here in front of you guys today in opposition of the building of the Haiku Fire Station in Cuyaha. Today I'd like to focus on two key concerns, right? Regarding the county's reliance on the RCD number nine. Uh, RCD number nine was created to remove barrier for projects, um, that directly support Lahaina, Lahaina's wildfire recovery, which we still not finished yet. Yeah. And replacement on housing, which is also a crisis. Um, this Haiku fire station does not meet the needs for that. It's all the way on the opposite side of us. Um, Second one would be, county has not demonstrated that the property qualifies for publicly owned or controlled land as required under the directive. And just coming to you guys as a Lahaina person of Lahaina, this is something we need more in Lahaina. So why are we going to do them in Haiku? I understand the need that we need more of these, but I think the severity is more in Lahaina.

And I'll look for you guys time. That's it.

Thank you. I see your hand up. Go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Miss Poole. I just wanted to clarify, um, what you folks are saying about RCD 9 Recovery Coordinating Directive 9. My understanding is if we were following that, we wouldn't be here today because that would be an administrative process. So if we do this process, it's not RCD 9? Is that or I mean, because you said you don't support using RCD 9 and that's why we're doing this process, which is the public, um, public process with testimony. If it was RCD nine that was being used, we wouldn't be involved. It would just be an administrative process. So I, I think we're not doing RCD nine just to clarify.

Okay. Um, I guess they were using the recovery as a directive intended for the, yeah, the fast track for that. Um, but if anything, can we don't use it for this? Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think this is the process we go through. If we don't use RCD nine, if we were using RCD nine, this body wouldn't be involved. It would just be the administrative like signing papers or something.

I don't necessarily have a question, but we will discuss that during our discussions. I appreciate you bringing it up. Well, we talked about it some, so we'll get into it when we continue on. Thank you very much for your testimony. Next testifier, please.

The next individual up to testify is calling in from the last four digits of 4945 to be followed by Joycelyn Costa.

Do you read me? We can hear you. Oh, shoot. I already forgot how to say cheer in Hawaiian because I've been excluded from all the agendas.

It's Jesse Law.

I'm in Kahului at an undisclosed location. They could probably find me if they want to track my phone. I'm born 1966, the year of the fire horse. I was really interested in this discussion and I know you're really excited for fire station and haiku care. And of course, everybody's excited and I'm glad to hear Chief Ventura is there. A couple of comments on the procedures and just observations so that y'all can, disseminate information to the public, which is sometimes helpful, sometimes not, but you've got to go through it to get all the kinks out. And I think I heard Anna Lois from planning say it's good to see you today. I think it would be good to see you, but I don't have that capability on my phone. And so, and then I followed some of the presentation by the Wahine, I couldn't catch her name, because I'm prevented from attending the meeting by unscrupulous, uneducated county lawyers, so I'm wondering where I can get information on that. And so maybe Mr. Ventura can... I don't know how to somehow get his phone number. I'll try to contact him, and maybe they can show me some stuff there at the Kahului Fire Station in the office. And... I'm so glad to hear from, oh yeah, so I had the same problem with Hand Lord, Hand Raise. I must have pressed the button again 10 times. I think somebody's in the office trying to keep me from testifying. I couldn't hear half of the conversation because the computerized voice kept saying Hand Lord, Hand Raise, Hand Lord, Hand Raise. And so that's my main thing is about just including everybody in this conversation. And I'm really, really stoked and happy that Tamar Fulton's in there keeping us all track of X. I know she's always doing the tono thing, and I would encourage everybody to be tono in these days and times with the American government as it is. I'm so glad to hear from the Hawaiians there. As my definition of Hawaiians is understood to be, my question was going to be about the royal patents of the land. I'm happy for all testifiers, and I'm standing with them I'm sorry, Mr. Ventura, I know you really want to get this fire station started, but I'm going to go know all of it with those guys. And especially because of one of the officers there at the Kalalooee Fire Station cements my nose. This guy named Devlin, we've got to watch for him because he's, as you know, a spark to start a big fire. And thank you all for your time, and thank you for letting me participate. And who's the corporation council today? I think it's that staff.

Seeing none.

Aloha.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Next testifier, please.

Chair, the next individual up to testify is Joycelyn Costa, to be followed by Ke'e'au Moku Kapu.

Good morning, my name is Jocelyn Costa. I'm coming as a Ahamoku representative for Hamakualoa. We have no qualms with having a fire station. Every place should have that service. However, the locations in which it's being chosen has not been carefully vetted. And I'll give you an example. There was a... Lahaina company that came into Haiku put up a subdivision in the back of the Haiku school. I went through the county process to stop the development, found out that state historic preservation never checked off, county never really looked into that. The shovel went onto the ground, the families that lived right by that property said, look, there's burials here. And then when they looked into the whole plan, they weren't supposed to go forward. By then it was too late. And we're not just talking Eevee Kupuna, we're talking like conventional cement plot, because there was family burials within their home lot. And the cement went and whatever else in the dirt went and they said, well, we can't really sift anything, so we'll just stamp it. And so with the assessment being as antiquated as it is, and knowing what we know now about the area, I would caution any shovel going into the ground there. And as far as not having any type of identification for existence of the Kanaka Maoli Royal Patents 137, 140, 144, 220, 226, 2701, to name a few. There's even one in the area of Auella Cuyaha, which is 4958B to UU. So I would caution before we move forward, that we do the right thing and the assessment, because we've gone through this too many times where they all become inadvertent, and then we mitigate them away out of existence. And that's not all that's there. There has been, if you know Haleakubē, which is just a stone throw away, really, that's where our aliʻi came in, in their canoes, in their war canoes. So there's much more history than you can even imagine. We have other stories that we don't reveal because then you got people that wants to go and poke around. So I would caution you to put on the brakes and take a hard look at the area that you're considering. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Costa. Members, any clarifying questions? Oh, I'm sorry, real quick. Member Paulton has a question for you.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Costa. I just wanted to clarify on your testimony, it sounded like you were talking about archaeological and cultural sites. And it says the archaeologists and cultural consultant for this project is Scientific Consultants Inc. and Kealapono Archaeological Consulting. Have you worked with these entities in terms of archaeological sites and cultural sites before and if you could clarify in relationship to this project, how?

As the Ahamoku representative, we work with the community and the mo'olelo from the kupuna has more weight than any archaeological company that I can even think of. There's this theory The families have facts. The families have generational genealogical stories. And I think that's where you folks need to turn to. Then you'll get actual factual information. Until then, a lot of the archaeological studies are hypothesis to me.

So you haven't worked with these two entities on this specific.

Do you have the name of the archaeologist?

I think the lady or I'm sorry, Miss Kruger mentioned the Kealapono Archaeological Consulting, but I didn't hear for Scientific Consulting Services Inc. And I can't recall.

I'd have to know the archaeologist's name because that's who I normally, I don't go to the company names per se, but if I know who those particular people are, then maybe I can answer that.

Have you been consulted at all in a cultural or archaeological context for this project? No. Okay. As the ahamuku of the area? No. Thank you.

Thank you. No other clarifying questions. Thank you. Next testifier, please.

The next individual up to testify is Ke'e'au Moku Kapu to be followed by Connie Loa.

I'm from Lahaina. I just wanted to basically come today because I've been hearing a lot of information on what is going on over here. And the last testifier, Jocelyn Costa, mentioned a Royal Patent Land Commission Award that is adjoined to that area. Well, I bought that actual document, the Royal Patent Land Commission Award signed by Kawikili and Keoneana. This is an actual title. So because it's an actual title and it's adjoined to the property that is in question, I think the council needs to be really aware that there are interests out there, undivided interests to other families that I don't see that is a part of this discussion. So when we talk about putting the brakes on certain things, we need to be clear to make sure that you guys going in the right direction. If not, then next thing we know is this body ends up in court. So I brought an example, a true affidavit or a true document from the time of the crown, from the time of the kingdom. It has nothing to do with a quit claim, quiet title, adverse possession, warranty title deed, whatever you may call it. This is an actual title of an undivided interest of families that have an interest to this area. Although this title is, HALO 140, which the last specifier mentioned about the Royal Patent. And in this Royal Patent calls for over 48 acres of property that is adjoined to this property. This Palapala, Illinois is signed by Kawike'ole, Commitment of the Third, and also co-signed by Keoneana. So what I present to you, this body today, an actual document from the time of the kingdom. Now, I advise all of you, before you make any further decisions, to find out, I don't know whether or not you guys go through title guarantee, because title is not guaranteed. In the state of Hawaii, believe it or not, all properties in Hawaii is clouded. So for your duties, your fiduciary duties is to make sure that all encumbrances to this property, which is a part of Pawella, which is adjoining to this property in question, to make sure that you guys not putting yourselves in harm or in litigation. So that's all I have to offer. I'd like to also Mahalo this body, you know, to make sure that once we go up the right direction in the recovery for Lahaina, that everything that is meant for Lahaina is for Lahaina. Or other projects because the governor made his proclamation saying that the proclamation calls for all these certain things, especially when it comes to the abatement of property. Fire is the big question today. The fire is a big question because now the county is activated to make sure that all properties are dated. All properties come from funding from the federal government. Let's make sure that funding that is meant for Lahaina stays in Lahaina and property monies are not being used outside of Lahaina. So mahalo for allowing me to testify. Thank you.

Thank you. Do you mind doing recess if I could maybe take a picture of that? Do you mind doing recess? Not right now. If I could take a picture. Thank you so much. Does anybody else have any clarifying questions?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Kapu. I just wanted to clarify. So you're saying showed us the title for HLU 17140 Royal Patent. And you mentioned that it's adjoint to the property. Can you clarify what you meant by adjoint? Like, is it next to?

Yes, it's adjoint. It's right next to the property in question. But I think it more matters pertaining to the Land Commission Award, because if you guys are going off of a TMK, those TMKs kind of cross boundaries sometimes. So basically what I'm saying is you got to make sure that within the title research and the boundaries of this property doesn't abut or resources that come from this adjoining property doesn't interject into the other property, which may create confusion.

And what you showed us was the real patent, but do you also have the land commission award for the property?

This is Hui land. Oh, yeah. another problem. Thank you. I yield.

Thank you very much. Any other clarifying questions? Thank you. Thank you very much. Next testifier, please.

Chair, the next individual up to testify is Kaniloa Kamaunu.

Hello, my kākou, Kaniloa Kamaunu. I respectfully urge you to reject HLU-17 as it pertains to the proposed Haiku Fire Station at Kuiaha. My testimony focuses on three fundamental issues, title, jurisdiction, and protection of vested rights. First, the county has not demonstrated a clear chain of title to the subject property. The Newlands Resolution of 1890 accepted only those public government and crown lands the Republic of Hawaii purported to ceded To the United States, it did not identify individual parcels, nor did it adjudicate competing private claims to extinguish vested property rights. Therefore, if the county claims ownership today through the chain of the Republic, United States territory or state of Hawaii and county, it bears the burden of proving that a specific excuse me. A specific parcel was lawfully included in the chain. As noted in prior testimony, multiple county departments have reportedly acknowledged they do not possess records establishing a complete chain of title for this property. And this is where the Kuleana tax exemption comes from. It's exactly the same thing. The uncertainty alone should give this committee pause before authorizing development. Colonel E. Williams' written testimony on HLU-17, which is my second point, the Newlands Residence itself distinguishes between public lands and private rights. It did not declare that all lands in Hawaii became government property. It is possible as never public government or Crown land, but instead commission award or other vested property interest. Then the resolution itself provides no basis for assuming county ownership. before this project moves forward. The county should first establish lawful title to document evidence rather than relying upon assumptions. Third, nothing in New England's resolution especially extinguishes vested property rights, native Tennessee rights, or other lawful interests attached to private lands historical kingdom documents, like was shown earlier, likewise recognized that transfers of lands were not to interfere with the rights of the native tenants. If descendants possesses legally recognized interest to land commission awards or rural patents, those rights deserve careful consideration before any governmental action proceeds. The testimony before you argues that these interests remain unresolved and they directly affect the proposed project. Same like everybody's saying. The Newlands Resolution is your annexation bill. This is what you claim to gain your authority and your right. If you read the first paragraph of the Newlands Resolution, that is what you are upholding to. Anything outside of that is actually stepping over your boundaries. So to claim all lands in Hawaii is wrong. And being that I myself am recognized as Kuleana, this hits home because the attack of the Kuleana lands are massive and people are losing their lands. by overstepping the government's overstep and selling our properties to private as well as government use. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Members, any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you very much. Next testifier, please.

Chair, there is currently no one else who has signed up to testify. If somebody would like to testify in the chamber, please let staff know. Chair, it appears that there's an individual approaching the stand to testify.

Yeah, Auntie Lala.

Before I start, I just wanted permission to ask if, and if cannot, that's okay too. But I have someone from Lahaina who did write her testimony and she wanted me to read it. But would that take out my three minutes? I just wanted to make sure.

They said yes.

Yes, can.

It does take away your time.

Okay, so I'll just submit it.

Okay. Did you want to testify separately though? Yeah. Okay, great. Okay, you can submit her testimony and then we'll hear your oral testimony. Okay. Thank you.

Aloha mai kākou. Mahalo for this space to speak to you today. I'm Lala Johnson, a kanaka maoli, and I also would like to include my tutu pua Kalomea Pu'uhina I Kalua O Pele, who was born in Huelo in 1831 within the ahupua'a of Hamakualoa. Although my ohana's roots are in Hamakualoa, our ahupua'a are connected through our shared history, genealogy, and our kuleana to Ma'alama'aina and one another. This is why I'm here today. For that reason, I respectfully ask this committee to give careful consideration to the pending OIP appeal 26-30 concerning the January 27, 2026 planning commission meeting that advanced bills 89, 90, and 91. According to the matters now under review, the final Kapa'akai analysis was not available to the public before testimony was taken. During the meeting, concerns were raised regarding a possible Sunshine Law issue. The Planning Commission entered executive session, and when it returned, it announced that the final Kapa'akai analysis had been uploaded. The Commission then proceeded to vote without reviewing that final analysis. However, the Department of Corporation Council, on behalf of the Planning Commission, had not responded to the OIP until March 27. Unlike subsequent OIP appeals, the Department of Corporation Council has since failed to provide the response directly to this appeal. I'm not asking this committee to decide the outcome of the OIP appeal. I'm simply asking that the committee recognize transparency, meaningful public participation, and public trust are all essential whenever decisions affect our communities, our cultural resources, and our traditional customary practices. The Kapalakai process exists to help ensure that these practices are identified, considered, and reasonably protected before decisions are made. When legitimate questions are raised about whether that process was fully carried out, those questions deserve thoughtful consideration. These principles are also why I support the heirs of Nalopi and the vision of Pu'uhonua o Kuiaha. The Kuleana families of Kuiaha deserve a meaningful voice in the decisions affecting their ancestral lands, and I encourage the county to continue engaging with them in good faith. I also respectfully encourage the county to continue choosing collaboration over conflict. The county has been placed a notice regarding the land dispute involving Cuyaha and county policy recognizes the distinction between civil land matters and criminal enforcement. Respectful dialogue is a path most likely to build lasting trust and meaningful solutions. I have submitted written testimony with additional information and respectfully request that it be considered together with the supporting documents. But in closing, I respectfully ask this committee to give careful consideration to the pending OIP appeal, the documentation already submitted to the Corporate Council, and the voices of the Kuleana families. As someone whose Ohana comes from neighboring Hamakualoa, I was taught that our Kuleana extends beyond the boundaries of our ahupuaʻa. When process is honored, Trust can grow. When trust grows, communities and government are better able to work together towards solutions that serve everyone. The decisions made today will become part of Maui's history. I respectfully ask that they respect transparency, fairness, meaningful public participation, respect for our traditional and customary practices, and the sincere commitment to working together with the community. Mahalo nui.

Thank you, Ms. Johnson.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. I was wondering, did you mention a number for the OIP appeal? Yeah.

So that's the 26-30, the S-Appeal 26-30. 26-30. And to clarify...

it was put in but OIP hasn't ruled on it yet, the appeal?

It's in the process.

Did they have a timeframe that they would make the ruling, if you're aware?

I'm not aware, but I'm sure that there is. Okay, thank you. Mahalo.

Thank you. Members, any other clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony. And are you going to submit the other written testimony? Perfect. Thank you so much. Do we have any other testifiers?

Chair, the next individual up to testify.

Oh, if I could also clarify from Ms. Johnson, was it the Palafox, Kaluna Palafox testimony? No. Different one.

Yeah, this is a different one.

Okay.

Thank you. Next testifier.

Chair, the next individual up to testify is Moikawa'akoa.

Aloha, Ms. Kawa'akoa.

Aloha kakahiaka kakou. Omo i kawa a kou. Linyo descendant of Hamakualoa, Hamakua Poko. Today I come to you to testify and oppose LHU or HLU-17. Mainly because get one fire station in Paia. And if we're using all this money to... Create a wastewater disposal system with water meters. What else we get over here? No existing drainage system. Threat of more subdivisions in this space, like Anna K. Jocelyn had said about going up from Haiku School. It's heavy every time I drive past there. I wish I knew Auntie was opposing that. I would have stood with her. But, you know, instead of wasting all this money on this fire station in this space, maybe we should be investing in the existing fire stations and their operations. Yeah. Another reason I oppose this bill or this proposal, Nahele Road is a residential area. The DOT is refusing to have main access go off of Hana Highway. So that means main access is going to be off of Nahele Road in a residential area. East Kuiaha, Kaneali'i is there. And we know, I know, that he has been battling the fake state of Hawaii as the heir of Nalopi. Also the South Holokai Road area. Michael Puna lay to rest right up the road, one minute. And you guys know me. I do not want anybody disturbing the rest up there. Okay? As one of the Kia'i, Kanaka Kia'i, who was arrested in Ukumehame, with permission from the lateral descendant of David Malo, Um, because the county, the fake state of Hawaii doesn't acknowledge the OCA. Yeah. Um, there was no kapaa kai analysis there. And we had found out that there was heiau there. The landscape was destroyed. Destroyed. So if these people that we were building in Puʻuhonoa for were displaced, what would make me think that you wouldn't do the same thing to Kaneali'i and his ohana, or the descendants who have lived there for generations. Yeah? What's to stop the authorities from these traumatic actions? Because it continues to happen. Yeah? No fire stations in Haiku. Like all of the Lahaina descendants had shared, concentrate on them. If there needs to be a fire station for Huelo, Kailua, Kealai, it needs to be closer to that area, but with the discussion and conversations and dialogue with the descendants included. And if I'm boring any of you, you don't belong in these seats. Mahalo for today. Aloha.

Thank you very much. Members, any clarifying questions? Member Palten, go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Kabla-Akua, for your testimony. I just wanted to clarify. A previous testifier said Site D was near to Holokai Road, and you mentioned Holokai Road Street Road. So you are also not supportive of Site D near to Holokai Road for a fire station?

Aye. It's right up upon the highway, right on the corner. And my kupuna lay to rest up there for generations. And they shouldn't be disturbed. What we should be doing is investing in housing and getting all of these water meters and facilities and utilities that are going to be invested into this fire station, into our people, so they can get into homes, not only in Lahaina, throughout Mokopuni and Maui. That's what we should be doing.

Thank you.

Mahalo.

Thank you. I don't see any other clarifying questions. So thank you very much. Next testifier, please.

Chair, the next individual up to testify is James Langford.

Aloha, Chair. Aloha, Council. Aloha to Kamakamole, who I bless you. I second all of the testimony today that Kamakamole As you folks know, I write software and, uh, people all the way back and everything that every single person, uh, who is protecting the both from that area, which I am also intimately connected to. That's my family's business. Um, What I'm hearing as an auditor is a RICO pattern. And for example, if the county brings in $70 million, but they have $137 million in fringe benefits that are paid out, that's a RICO example. Now, The specific RICO example that it would play into is called Ponzi scheme. And that's where folks start spending money that they don't have. And they look around for where they can get the federal money from, which is my family. And that is the straightforward RICO. So all of the folks in the room are 100% correct when they're speaking of their family lands. My family oversaw those documents being signed. So I have to say that I'm not in opposition of a fire station in Haiku. I am in opposition to this RICO approach of covering lost money, fringe benefits. Twice, more than twice, almost. Twice as much money spent rather than you guys are allowing the executive branch to take in. That's not right. So I encourage, as we're meeting in the finance department, that we raise our hearts, we lift our hearts up, we open up to our God. And listen, it's sitting right in front of you, those beautiful people right in front of you. So they're right. We're right. And so how do we, in the face of this conflict, flip it? into aloha and clean up the RICO behavior. Thank you.

Thank you. Members, any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you. Next please.

Thank you, ma'am. Chair, there is currently no one else who has signed up to testify. If somebody would like to testify in the conference room, please let staff know. Chair, there are two individuals in the conference room that would like to testify. Please approach the mic.

Good morning, everybody.

Good morning.

My name is Jason Medina, and I'm a resident of Paia. And I'd like to just voice my... I won't say discontent, but I'm staunchly against this fire station at the particular... the area where we're talking about having HLU 17 go forward. I am not anti-fire department. I would like it to be maybe shifted to that area that D would be better over B. I'd prefer that. Thank you.

Sorry, you're the tallest person we've had. Our mics don't accommodate. Lucky for you.

I'm glad you have a wireless option. I appreciate that.

Thank you so much. Thank you, James.

Thank you. I would like option D, lot D, to be considered over option B, primarily because of the amount of space. And I'm happy with the fire department in Paia where it's at, but it's also on 0.51 acres or 0.52 to round up acres of land. And it does what it needs to do. If there was a fire department at lot D, which is closer to Hana, would have enough space being 6.2 acres to fill all of that. But just to think, I could fit 12 of those Paia Fire Departments inside of one of this proposed lots. And the plan for this Haiku Fire Station, it kind of falsely portrays the project is only 6.1 acres. The project fails to include the water corridor installation outside of the planned rezoning of 6.1 acres. And this water corridor will go through at least two other TMKs, disturbing those. So what else did I want to say about that? Yeah, I also don't see the necessity of such a large area being taken over because you can fit 12 in one. And there's also Hamakualoa, Ko'olau, and Hana districts. They're known for their frequent rainfall and no risk of wildfires currently. It's just a wetter area, and I don't know why such a large swath of land would be needed for this project going forward. But if you must, I would recommend not disturbing the area, Site B, and consider Site D instead. That's what I have to say.

Thank you. Members, any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you for your testimony. Thanks, James. Next testifier, please.

Would the next individual approach the mic? Thank you.

Aloha. I'm much shorter. The rest of us. Aloha, Chair and members of the Housing and Land Use Committee. My name is Maya. We know each other. I want you all to imagine if we trusted Native Hawaiian leadership to show us another way. Too often, governments ask Native communities to prove why a place is sacred instead of asking itself whether another site could accomplish the same public purpose without creating this level of harm. That question matters because once cultural relationships are fractured, Once trust is broken, once communities feel they have been sacrificed for the sake of expediency, those things cannot simply be rebuilt with another public meeting. I also want to say this plainly. People protect what they love. When communities organize, testify, stand on the land, and refuse to quietly disappear, that should not be viewed as an inconvenience to government. It should be understood as evidence that something deeply important is at stake if this committee chooses to ignore the voices that have carried this place across generations you should not be surprised when people continue to defend it this is not extremism this is what love for land looks like this is what community stewardship look looks like and frankly after working alongside people who have lost homes family culture and belongings i believe we need to more people willing to defend places of refuge, not fewer. I stand in opposition of this fire station being built in location B because I believe another future is possible, one where public safety and cultural survival are not treated as opposing goals, one where refuge is valued as much as infrastructure, one where government chooses relationship over imposition. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Members, any clarifying questions? Member Powhatan has a clarifying question for you.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Firth. I just was looking at the feasibility study with the A, B, C, and D. Is any of those your preferred location?

No, mostly because of learning Ms. Ka'ava Koa's family is laid to rest there.

So none of the A, B, C, or D. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Do we have anybody else signed up? If not, I think I see Ms. Dr. Johnston.

Sure. There is one more individual signed up to testify. Their name is Kapali Keahi on Teams.

Okay. Testify after Dr. Johnston. Okay. Aloha, Mr. Keahi. Aloha, Mr. Keahi. You're unmuted in our end. Start six.

Okay, sorry. Thank you. Aloha.

We can hear you.

I was... Okay. So aloha, Chair and members of the Housing, Land Use, and Development Committee. Kapali keahi ke ia. And I respectfully urge the committee to defer action on... on this item until significant legal cultural and procedural questions surrounding the proposed haiku fire station site have been adequately resolved um public safety is essential and the haiku community deserves reliable emergency services the question before you is whether the county is moving forward on the most appropriate site and whether it has exercised the level of diligence that such an important public investment requires. The material submitted to this committee raised serious concerns regarding the proposed location. Of course, we all know including unresolved questions about property ownership, incomplete archeological investigations, the protection of Iwikupuna and cultural resources, and the adequacy of consultation with descendants. Whether each of these issues is ultimately resolved in favor of the county is not the only consideration before you today. The existence of these unresolved questions alone should give this committee pause. Good governance requires more than simply meeting minimum procedural requirements. It requires ensuring that public decisions are made on a solid foundation. Proceeding while substantial disputes remain increases the likelihood of costly litigation, project delays, additional taxpayer expense, and continued division within the community. Those outcomes serve neither public safety nor public interests. Equally important, the information before the committee suggests that there may be a viable alternative site capable of meeting the county's emergency response. And as far as what I just heard from Ms. Cavacoa, this might be even more difficult. But I think a thorough understanding of the area could help mitigate this situation. If another feasible site exists that presents fewer risks and fewer impacts, the county has an obligation to seriously evaluate that option before committing to a course that may prove significantly more contentious and expensive. Our community has repeatedly witnessed the consequences of moving too quickly through complex land use decisions without fully addressing cultural resources, historic preservation, and community concerns. Hawaiians always have to bear that burden. Only Hawaiians have to bear the burden of our ancestors being disturbed. So respectfully, I ask the committee to defer action on these bills until outstanding questions regarding title and ownership have been fully addressed or archaeological investigation and burial-related obligations have been completed. Meaningful consultation with the descendants and feasible alternative sites have been thoroughly evaluated. Mahalo.

Thank you very much. Any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony. Dr. Johnson, and then do we have anybody else signed up online?

Okay.

Okay, we're just gonna go with that.

In the spirit, in the celebration of , I want to recognize the who are royalists and members of the original that organized community to protect not only this , but the archipelago from U.S. occupation. Aloha, my name is Dr. Kahala Johnson, and I'm asking this committee to refuse bills 89, 90, and 91 to move the fire station project away from . I'm also Kiaʻi with over 10 years of training activists in direct action and community defense. I was also one of the five kanaka who were arrested at Ukumihame for practicing Puʻuhonua in solidarity with our unsheltered community. Many of those are also in this room. At Ukumihame, the county treated a disputed claim to ʻāina as settled ownership and used police force against Hawaiians like myself to circumvent property rights of heirs to the land. We were charged with criminal trespass and obstruction of government operations for practicing Puʻuhonua with permission from the heir to the ʻāina in accordance with our culture and in solidarity with unsheltered community. On May 11, 2026, the prosecution withdrew its motions and briefs. The charges against us were dropped in the interest of justice, and the court dismissed our cases with prejudice. This was a win. The lessons from Ukumehame are relevant to the struggle in Kuiaha. The county used police power to settle a civil dispute over land, not through the courts, but through the violence of arrest, intimidation, and sweeps. Police intervention does not resolve a defective chain of title. It only escalates a civil matter into state violence against Kanaka, which necessitates direct action, civil disobedience, and community defense. The county has now received notice that ownership of the proposed Cuyaha Project site is disputed. Furthermore, it has received evidence concerning RP3 land commission awards, multiple ones, the rights of native tenants, and absence of county records establishing a clear chain of title. Adding to this notification, I'm reminding the county that former police chief Tivoli Fa'aumu's 2020 policy states MPDs should not become involved in land disputes and other racially sensitive conflicts. Chief John Pelletier also reaffirmed that policy in 2025. Furthermore, privately contracted enforcement like AGN cannot be used to circumvent these policies as their contracts are paid through public funds, making them liable to the same laws governing MPD and civil matters. The County cannot now feign ignorance of these laws or policies regarding law enforcement. As a direct action trainer, I want to be transparent. The reason why I'm bringing this up is because we've seen a pattern of using police force against people like myself. If the county attempts to use police force against the Kuleana families of Kuiaha to circumvent civil dispute, its actions will necessitate community defense, regretfully, in the interests of justice. The committee can prevent another confrontation like we saw at Ukumehame by stopping these bills now and respecting the land title dispute and choosing an alternative site. Mahalo.

Thank you very much, Dr. Johnson. Any clarifying questions? Seeing none, thank you very much for your testimony. Next testifier, please, if we have any.

Chair, there is currently no one else signed up to testify.

Do you also need the handheld mic? Would that be easier for you? Sounds good. They're both equally lovely. Love that for them.

My name is Kanye Lee Williams. I'm testifying in opposition to HLU 17. Firstly, the 2010 AIS and over 1,000 pages from planning failed to include a single reference to Apana 22 of Land Commission or 9971 to William Pitlaleohoku. The entire Ahupua'a of Kuiaha, including west of Kuiaha as well as east Kuiaha, where the lands within the subject property are located, is a land commission award under those numbers. The exclusion of that land commission award over the course of 17 plus years of various studies underscores in adequacies of those studies and the project. I've already provided you folks a copy of that at the June 5th county meeting. Secondly, County of Maui archaeologist Janet Six emphasized at the April 8, 2025 BFIT committee meeting that the AIS was done over 15 years ago and subsequently emphasized the need for SHIPTI redetermination and supplemental AIS testing. Additionally, she stated, quote, whenever you have kuleana lands, you could have burials, end quote. Again, this is a Land Commission award. Thirdly, the AIS failed to include the marked burials, historic properties pursuant to HRIS Section 6E, located on the subject property. A credible third-party interviewee in the Kapatka analysis disclosed the presence of marked Native Hawaiian burials on the TMK. Since March 3rd of 2026, SHFTI has been in receipt of my burial registration materials for said burials. SHIPTI has yet to fulfill its fiduciary duty to conduct a site visit. Since March 10, 2026, the County of Maui has been on notice by SHIPTI of the presence of the burials on the subject property. On April 7, 2026, Janet Six emailed Dina Tyson to schedule a meeting for consultation. To date, there has been no follow-through by the County to conduct proper consultation with respect to the burials, including meeting with myself, doing a site visit for the burials, and ensuring the formal registration of the site by SHIPTI occurs before the project continues. The county has not fulfilled its fiduciary duty to conduct proper consultation myself as a recognized cultural descendant to Native Hawaiian human skeletal remains within East Cuyaha and has not been in compliance with applicable federal laws and regulations such as NAGPRA as the project is a federal undertaking due to the use of federal funds. Next, in regards to TMK 227-007-0012 and 227-007-058, there's been no AIS has been done to conduct on conducted on these parcels where the water corridor is planned for. An inadequate AIS for one parcel does not satisfy the requirement of an AIS for other parcels. Additionally, a Copalachi analysis is not a substitute for an AIS. Secondly the Department of Fire and Public Safety in their commentary on the Klapa'i Klan analysis dated June 20th 2025 explicitly refused to accommodate my recommendations of quote mapping and documenting all cultural and archaeological sites on LCA 3336 end quote despite the county's plans to construct the water corridor through my Ohan's Kuleana lands. That is itself an indication of how that department as well as other departments will treat archaeological sites at the fire station site building as well as the rest of the project which is bad faith Lastly those last two TMKs where the water corridor is planned for they're under an active litigation including an injunction under civil number 2CCV-25-0000157. There is a high potential of prolonged litigation I'm almost finished prolonged litigation that would prevent installation of the water corridor and delay the project even further. For example, Makila Land Company LLC versus Kapu 2020 was a 20 year litigation. The county proceeding with constructing the fire station on the subject property, given the uncertainty of the ability to fulfill the water corridor installation as planned through the other TMKs is a major liability risk for you folks. Also, just for the record, I incorporated my testimonies from the June 5th meeting on Bills 89, 90, and 91, as well as the HLU-35 at the June 17th, 2026 HLU meeting, and the Great-58 at June 30th, 2026 Great Committee meeting. And as I recall from the June 5th meeting, I am retained as a resource for you folks, so I don't know if you have to formally do that in this meeting again or not.

We can. You can be a resource under Rule 18A.

Okay, mahalo nui.

And then members, his testimony is also on grant in case number seven. But does anybody else have any clarifying questions? I'll hold it to you. You'll hold it?

Okay. And I also have a physical copy of my testimony. And I just want to mention too that it's seven pages of written testimony of a lot more points than what I hit through this testimony. So I would highly suggest you folks to, if you have to go into executive session to read it, to do so. before we actually have the conversation. So you folks are caught up to speed.

Sounds good. Thank you very much. No, oh, Member Sugi Mora has a question for you.

Just a quick question. I know you're going to be a resource, but you did mention something concerning to me is that you're waiting for Janet Six, our county archaeologist to get back to you. So did that meeting ever happen?

I'm actually, so let me, I repeat, so Janet Six emailed Dina Tyson who was to schedule the meeting. I don't know who exactly she is as far as her position. She was supposed to schedule. That has not happened. There's been no follow up. There's been no site visit, no consultation as far as the burials are concerned. And I don't know if it's an administrative like above their pay grade thing that's blocking it. Because I do understand there's different layers to this project and people wanting to push the project for political reasons and such. So it may not be necessarily the fault of Janet Six or people under her could be higher than her. That's causing the delay on the county's part. I don't know.

Okay.

So you're not sure then if the meeting ever happened. Is that correct?

Yes, he was not contacted. That's what he's trying to say.

No, I've been contacted for, and I provided availability. I was asked, and it's also in my materials if you open the form that I emailed to you folks. There is a set of emails, first from Shifty to OEB Resources, archaeologists from county, myself. with the first initial notice about the need for the consultation process. And then there's a separate set of emails from Janet Six to myself asking if I was available for in-person meeting or virtual. And I said virtual promptly. And then that was followed by a communication from Janet to DeeDee to schedule, which has not happened. Does that make sense?

Thank you. Appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yes, it's in my written testimony.

Thank you.

Mahalo.

Any other testifiers?

Chair, there is currently no one else who has signed up to testify. If somebody would like to testify in the conference room, please let staff know. Or on Microsoft Teams, raise your hand. This is the final call. Three, two, one. Chair, it appears that nobody else wishes to testify.

Thank you very much. Members, seeing there are no other individuals wishing to testify, without objection, I would now close oral testimony.

No objections.

Thank you very much. As a reminder, written testimony will continue to be accepted. We typically do a morning break right about now. So I'm going to do that right after we get into a little bit of discussion. So just as an FYI, we'll do a five-minute discussion round. Member Batangon, you won't be participating. Would you like to clarify for us before we have anything?

So in a previous life, I had served as a land use planner with Munakee and Hiraga. Some of my work is included in the final EA. And so I have a conflict per section 1041C of the charter. Thank you very much. I'll be abstaining from discussion and voting.

Okay, thank you. So members, we heard in testimony, we have a... The Mayor had issued a revised Recovery Coordination Directive Number 9, dated June 15, 2026, which states, public uses and utility facility and uses as defined in Maui County Code Chapter 19-04-040 are hereby authorized as uses by right in agricultural zoning districts on lands owned or managed by the County of Maui. The State of Hawaii or any agency or instrumentally thereof in support of recovery efforts. And so I had asked our corporation council if that applies to this outside of anything else. And you can answer, because I don't want to mess up any of the words.

Yeah, so there we go. So the RCD would come into play if you folks decided not to rezone the property. Um, it is an emer. It's part of emergency directives, and so it is essentially making the Hawaii, the Maui County code for AG district conform with the state, which allows public, um, public uses. And so that would only come into play if you folks didn't go through this process.

You're welcome to go ahead.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Nunokawa. I just want to try to clarify if I understand what you're saying. Like if we were to defer or vote no, then RCD 9 would be the process. Or if we didn't do this at all, like just trying to clarify what you mean.

Not necessarily. It could be used at that point. The RCD just makes it so that Maui County Code, our agricultural district, allows for public structures, public uses. And so it wouldn't necessarily, but that's when it would come into play. That's when the decision would be made is if this wasn't processed as a change in zoning.

And if I could further clarify, It's RCD 9 is in use under the current emergency proclamation.

Yeah, one of the mayoral. Yeah.

And so then this is a permanent action and the proclamation is temporary in nature. I mean, it keeps getting renewed for like three years, but eventually it won't be renewed. And so then. once the emergency proclamation is finished, but there is this permanent thing. How does that work?

So if the project was completed before the emergency proclamation expired, then it would essentially be a non-conforming use. But at the same time, there's some amendment language being drafted right now to do a code change to do the same for the same purpose.

So so it wouldn't it would no longer be part of the emergency proclamation. It would be part of the Monaco in alignment with the state laws.

Because right now it allows for it, but as a special use. But the state allows for it as a permissible use.

Thank you for that clarification. I'll yield.

Thank you. This is exactly why I asked. So we do have that directive right now. It is a by-right use, but we have these bills in committee, so it was worthwhile for a discussion on our end, even though right now it's a by-right use. Yes. I have a question from Shirley, and then I'll go to you, Member Senancy, and then we'll take a quick break.

Shirley. Yeah. Clarification for Deputy Court Counsel. So if we follow the emergency proclamation procedure, is one of the reasons for doing that so that we can use CDBG-DR funds?

I am not sure on that. I just... There was a bunch of reasons why public use in ag was seen as necessary. I'm not sure about this, whether there's a tie to CDBG.

Thank you. Who's whispering?

Thank you.

We're trying to figure out some things. Member Sinensi?

Thank you. That was my question. So these are or aren't CDBG funds, DR funds?

Oh, it's not related to CDBG. It's separate from CDBG funds. I'm not sure if there is some way that it not being a change in zoning would allow for CDBG, but there's no connection between the RCD and CDBG funds. Thank you.

Thank you. Members, I'm going to take a quick recess if that's okay. Oh, did you want to ask anything before you forget? Okay, go, just go. That's okay. Oh, wait, can you turn your mic down? Okay. Okay. I don't think I have a conflict of interest because my husband's a firefighter. But we can ask court counsel, I guess. Board of ethics? I could. I don't think I have a conflict of interest. He probably won't be working there ever, if that's even built during his tenure. But I can ask during recess. Which did you want to ask your? Okay. Okay. Okay. We can write it down then. Sure. Okay. So it is 10.43 right now. I'm going to take a 10-minute recess to come back at 10.53. Good morning still. It is 11.17. And will the LU... HOU meeting, please reconvene. We just got out of a recess. I appreciate the concern that was brought up before we went into recess. So out of a hyper abundance of caution, I'm going to step aside while they continue to look at it. I know I don't have a conflict of interest, just FYI, but I don't want to add to the layers of animosity and confusion to today's discussion. So without any further ado, I am going to entertain a motion. I can vote on the motion though, right? Or no, a majority of the members. Okay, then so moved. Okay, I'm going to entertain a motion to have Member Paulton continue on this meeting as I sit here and listen, I guess. Thank you. I can continue to all those in favor and just

I think you and vice chair would abstain.

Yes. Okay. All those in favor.

Just for clarity, chair. So this would be for council member Paulton to serve as a temporary chair under rule seven C of the rules of the council.

Sure. Yes. Thank you. Seven C. This doesn't happen very often. So we have to take a figure out how to do this. So on the rule seven C members, all those in favor, please raise your hand and say aye. Aye. Aye.

Chair, you have seven ayes, no nos, and two abstains. Chair Uhu Hodgins and Vice Chair Patonga.

Okay. Now, Temp Chair Paulton, please take it away.

Thank you, members, for your vote of confidence in me. I'll do my best to uphold your guys' trust. Okay, so where we left off with Member Rollins Fernandez had a question for Corporation Council regarding RCD 9. So, Member Rollins Fernandez.

Mahalo, Temp Chair. Temp Chair Temp. Okay, so I did write down my question. And the follow up question that I had is, Okay, so for the RCD 9, Deputy Corp Counsel, you mentioned a code amendment, and that would be a code amendment in Title 19 for by right permissible use of public facilities on ag land if it's owned by the county?

Public use. So just use the exact same language as the HRS.

Okay, mahalo. And then if we were to follow the RCD 9, or if we were to follow that, what would be that process?

So that process, essentially the RCD takes the place of the Code Amendment until the Code Amendment can be established. So it is just allowing it as a... allowed use within the agricultural district. So at that point, it would be administrative permitting, like building permits, except all the regular permits for building.

Ministerial.

Yeah. Just not through the not requiring a change of zoning and the other things.

District boundary amendment. What about the community plan amendment?

I think the community plan one was, it was questionable. It's not necessarily that it would be needed at that point. But it might still be good to change it just for an abundance of clarity in the community plan.

Okay. Mahalo for that clarification.

Do any of the other members that aren't recused have questions about RCD-9 while we're on the topic? I just had one. Oh, go ahead, Charlie.

So for Corp Council, besides being exempt from a number of county processes and normal requirements, Is there another advantage as far as funding? So you said it's not eligible for the CDBG-DR funds. Is that what you said?

Well, I'm not sure, but I just, there's no inherent connection to any monetary purpose in the RCD. The RCD is simply saying that for public uses, that is an allowed use in the agricultural district. So I'm not exactly sure.

Okay, how much time would be saved? How much time do you think would be saved by following that process?

It would just... allow it to proceed without uh what you folks are doing right now so if you move this forward um then it would be minimally um faster but if you didn't uh approve this these change in zoning dba etc um then it would be faster to process it that way okay thank you yeah thanks i

Thank you. I had one additional question. Would this be similar to the tool one H process like where the zoning doesn't change like French street apartments where it was owned something else or something and is that similar that the zoning is still the same but because of this. it would be a permitted use on ag land?

A little bit different because in 201H, it is exempted from that through the 201H process. So even after the fact, it doesn't expire, whereas in this case, If the code amendment doesn't get processed, then it would expire and then it would be a non-conforming use in there. So a little bit different.

If it gets destroyed, it's not by right allowed to come back, kind of.

I think it would depend on the situation, but there could be a situation where that would be a concern.

Okay. Members, I guess, go ahead, Member Johnson.

Chair, I didn't have a question until we started giving in. Now I do have one, and hopefully it'll be clear. But if this goes forward as a non-conforming use, does that affect the ability for the fire station to get any type of flood insurance, fire insurance, any type of insurances?

I would have to look to confirm completely, but I don't believe it should. It's just... use that was allowed but is no longer allowed. It's still a legal structure. So I, yeah.

Fair enough. That was my one question. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Okay.

Go ahead, Member Seymour. Thank you. Thanks for having this discussion. Thank you, Member Wu-Hajins, for sending the RLS forward. so we could. Um, so basically, if we do nothing today or if we deny this, then this is this is being discussed because this is an alternate method to get this past administration.

Um, that's a question for Mr Nunakawa clarifying. Yes.

Go ahead, Mr. Um, this is If you folks decide to pass this, it's currently the cleaner method to do because it changes it to a district that has a permissible use. But if If not, then there's, like I said, an amendment being processed to do the same thing just in our code. And so that would make it permissible. You wouldn't have the issue of non-conforming. Does that answer the question? Yes.

Yes, you answered my question. So this is a alternate method that we could fall back on, I guess, or administration can fall back on to proceed if we do not approve these what's before us today. Thank you.

Okay, members, we have, I guess, roughly half an hour left in this time slot. I have asked our staff to look for a recess date. My understanding is HLU next week already has an agenda, and hopefully by recess date, we will get a formal opinion from the Board of Ethics. So while that's in process, the resources that we have here today, besides Mr. Nunakawa, are Planning, Ana N. Wilton, Chief Ventura, and Mr. Roy, as well as Kaneali'i Williams. And was that all the resources? Sorry. Oh, also finance, Marcy and Guy, land acquisition officer. Hoku Krueger from AHL Architect. We have Garrett Horimoto from AECOM Engineers. Diane Kodama and Jessica Samura and from Kealapono Archaeological Consulting, cultural consultant Gina McGuire. and from Maile Lani Design Landscape Architect Vivian Arita. So, I mean, maybe we can get through one round with those resources. Let's give folks about four minutes because we have two less members to spread out the time. Good members, if you have a question, maybe at the beginning of your question, you can say which resource it's directed to, and then the resource can possibly go to the podium stand. If it's a tall resource, Mike will come to you. And I did see member Rollins-Fernandez hand up and four minutes on the clock. Please, staff, ready, set, go.

Okay. Mahalo, Temp Chair. My first question is regarding the funding, following up on Member Senancy's question. So I think that might be for finance. And then questions after that will be for the fire department. So Chief Ventura, be prepared.

Okay. Do you know if it's to Marcy or Guy?

It's what federal funding is this, is the $15 million coming from? And also, okay, Chief Ventura is gonna answer that question. And then a question for OCS. I've been trying to pull up the bills and it says the page you requested was removed. I don't know if that's just me. Chief Ventura.

Thanks for the question. In short, there is currently no federal funding on this project. The federal funding that was referred to in the mayor's budget was a placeholder for a grant that was gonna be congressional direct spending money that fell through and we did not get it. So this is all county funds.

Online folks, can you hear the testifier okay? Okay, great. Just checking.

So I didn't open FY27, but for FY26, it was like $18 million. Is that still the projected amount, $18.581 million?

That money was going to expire in December, so we have that money in contract with the contractor right now. There was additional money put in FY27 to meet the balance of a few more million.

Okay, mahalo for that. Okay, and then with my remaining time, I was hoping that you could share with the committee what we kind of discussed over recess, what it was that the department is looking for in the development of Ha'iku Fire Station and, you know, pros and cons of A, B, C, and D. And then, you know, we briefly discussed relocation of the Puka'u Fire Station to Ualapue in finding a pre-disturbed area so that there would just be support for the fire station. So mahalo for all your work on that.

We conducted the Kealapano study, the Kapa'aka analysis to gather information from the locals as was recommended and required and the input that was provided was taken seriously. The additional sites that were looked at during the 2021 site assessment It seems that there's most interest in, say, D, which is the Holokai Road site. That site has a water line running by it. It's owned by the state. It is on the water meter list, which means we don't have any water. The state doesn't have any water meters on that property as of when that study was done. Additionally, the fire flow requirement for that property would require the Department of Water Supply to install an additional storage tank in their water system. And in order to do that, they would need to buy the property next to the current storage water tank to increase the volume to provide the fire flow to the Holokai site. So with all those additional costs, it wasn't just as simple as running a water meter off the current six inch line that's on Holokai Road. So the costs for Site D were enormous before we could even break ground. The other two sites that were less desirable were, one, they weren't available. They were looked at and we were hoping that we could work with the community to, you know, potentially get somebody to sell land to us, but the land is being used. And so basically we came back to site B as the, you know, desired site. As far as, you know, response to the community's emergency needs, you know, there's comments about wildfire and such, but there's a lot more the fire department does. The need in that community is great for a fire station.

Mahalo Chief.

Sure.

Mahalo Chief. Thank you. I see Member Cook with his hand up next. Member Cook, followed by Member Sinensi for your folks' opportunity.

Thank you, Chair. I guess, Brother Chief, before he sits down, if I could add a couple of questions. One, how long ago, I guess, how long has the county owned that parcel and what it was previously used for and when this idea of putting the station there originated?

Thank you for the question. The property was bought in December of 2007. So that's before any of us were involved in this project. I believe some of our council members might have made council services back then and saw some of the processes go through. The most recent activity on that property was farming. There was a mushroom farm that was the predominant workforce on that property is what was explained to us. And so once that kind of wrapped up and finished, then the parcel just wasn't in use after that.

Okay, thank you. I lived up at the end of Avalon Road for 35 years. I moved to Kihei 19 years ago. My house had a fire that was devastating. My neighbor's house burned to the ground. And so I just want to, for everybody's benefit, having been a resident up there for my youth and when my kids were born, and now he's 50 and he lives on the property, this fire station is really needed in the area. And I'm supportive of it. So thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Member Sinensi.

Hello, Chair. A couple of my questions were asked and answered by the Chief, but and they included the Site D. I guess for maybe Deputy Lillis, if there's a time There wouldn't be a time sensitivity if there's no federal funds available, as Chief had said. He answered my second question about any, but if there's any time sensitivity.

Thank you very much for the question, Member Sinensi. So the Charter does provide that Director-initiated items shall be taken up by Council in 120 days. That's a charter deadline. So, or it might be 180, but I believe that one's 120. But so for director-initiated items, that's the only deadline. There's no funding or other legal deadlines that I'm aware of.

Okay. Thank you for that. And then maybe for Ms. Krueger, Just how much of the project has been, I mean, it sounds like your timeline after approval of these bills, then construction would have been planned for. Is that correct?

Council member, I can address that question if that's okay. Mark Roy with Munikio Hiraga. Thank you for the question. As mentioned during the presentation, this project has been in the planning process for quite some time, about 17 years at this point. There's been a process of certainly listening to community input and the scope of the project has changed over time to downsize a lot of the different components associated with the project. In terms of next steps, the district boundary amendment, community plan amendment, change in zoning ordinances that are with this committee, should the committee decide to support a recommendation, it would, as you know, go to the full council for first and second reading of those ordinances. The fire department has funding for the project to move forward. My understanding is it's entirely county funding. So very specific to this project, not associated with Lahaina in any way. There's construction permitting that is moving forward at this point as well through Development Services Administration, the Department of Public Works. Building permits are obviously needed to start construction. But as soon as those building permits are issued, the county and its contractor is ready to go on this project to move forward.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Chapman.

Thank you. Member Sugimura, followed by Member Johnson, followed by Member Lee.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I fully support this, and there's such a great need. I've been hearing about it for a long time. Where's our fire station? And I'm grateful for the department for moving it forward, the planning department, and Muniki Ohiraga for the support. I look forward to us being able to vote because I definitely will support all the bills as it'll take us to where we need to go for the community. I hear about this when I'm at the Upcountry Farmers Market members in the Haiku community are asking what happened or why not. And so I hope then that we can do this to make Makawa or the Haiku area safer for the community. Much needed. Thanks. No question.

Thank you. Before we go on to Member Johnson, some of the options for recess for members to consider while Member Johnson and Member Lee are asking their questions would be Friday, August 7th at 2 p.m. throughout the rest of the evening or Monday, August 10th, 9 a.m. for all day. So just check you guys calendars and Member Johnson, go ahead.

This question is for finance probably Guy in the acquisition manager if he's available. If not maybe someone else can respond but I want to talk a little bit about the title. We heard the testifiers. I'd like to hear the department's view on if the title is a clear title.

And maybe Mr. Nunekawa can weigh in after Mr. Hiranaka.

Of course. We would defer this to, you know, Corporation Council because they reviewed the documents.

All right. Okay, Mr. Nuno-Kal.

So, thank you for the question. The county does have a title insurance policy out for the county's parcel. And in that insurance policy, it identified the county's interest as... being derived from Grant 6553 to Florence Wood by the territory of Hawaii. And it identified that as the original instrument that granted title. And in the insurance policy, it didn't list any exceptions for any other interests that might be in the land. It said that based on what they found, the county had a interest as a tenant in several team, meaning we own the complete interest for that parcel. And do you guys have, can I get authorized for share screen?

Okay. Let me see.

Cleaning my time. I just want to see it. Sorry. Time back. Share screen isn't.

popping up on mine.

I'm going to share this one.

Okay, we'll just go with that one maybe. Thanks, James. Can everyone see this one? so marked out um the different parcels that have been talked about in the yellow is the county's property which uh our insurance policy says we have uh all interests in and that one is next to but um adjacent to the other property that's been brought up, the property granted to Nelope. And so the purple is Nelope's property and the TMK is amongst the few interests in that property. And that is the one designated in purple. And the green crosshatch designation is for where the fire station uh is being proposed so it's quite a ways inward of that property okay um thanks for that so it seems like you're saying our insurance company says we have standing i guess Yeah, we have a clean title and yeah.

I don't know if anybody knows this right off the top of their head, but maybe we can submit this as a question. But is there other public or quasi-public zoned areas that the county owns that could be another suitable site? And I don't know if Chief has anything to say or any department has anything to say about it, but I'm just curious. Is this You know, we have to do all these changes, zoning, changing community plans. Are there other areas that are just already public, quasi-public that would be available and we wouldn't have to do this, all this other, you know, changing zoning, et cetera. But if anybody wants to respond to that, I don't know if you, oh, Chief is coming, Mike. Okay, great. And I didn't hear any bells, Chair. So just let me know. Okay. Thank you for the question.

In the feasibility study that we did in 2021, that was one of the discussions to look for obvious land in the area that was already designated for that zoning, and none was identified for us. So, yeah.

Well, worth a shot. All right. Thank you for your response. And there's my time. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Chair Lee. Okay, thank you. I have to leave in like five minutes, but could I ask the chief and or Munakiho's office how much outreach was done in the community?

Did you also want to try ask the guys that did the Pa'akai analysis, the Kealau

Whoever is best to answer that question. Okay.

Whoever is best to answer the question of how much outreach was done. Oh, and I see Ms. McGuire there. Mr. Roy, do you want to go and then Ms. McGuire?

Sure. I'm happy to. Maybe I can summarize. what has occurred over the 17-year planning period. Ms. McGuire was involved in the Kapakai analysis that occurred more recently and did involve outreach. Okay. So... For this project, and I was just chatting with Chief on the side, there was the land acquisition process back in 2007, I believe. There was some outreach conducted and some meetings conducted with the community as part of evaluating that site for purchase. The county then moved forward with the planning, developing the plans and starting the environmental assessment process that was undertaken. There were opportunities during the EA process for public review and input along the way. The EA spread across a number of years. There were comments received, as I mentioned earlier, the Department of Fire and Public Safety made a decision to downsize a lot of different components that were originally proposed in the project scope. One of which, an example of which is Helipad was originally included in the plans that has since been removed based on a concern that was raised during the EA process. There were wind turbines as well that did generate some concern. Those have been removed from the project scope. So there was the opportunity for public review, public comment during the EA process. Following the EA being completed, the district boundary amendment, community plan amendments and change in zoning applications were submitted. Those were planning director initiated. We've been before the Maui Planning Commission for review of the applications that are before this committee today. And maybe bringing us to the Kapa'a Kai analysis, that's maybe where I'll hand over to Keala Pono for maybe a summary of the outreach that was conducted more recently on that component.

Thank you, Mr. Roy, Ms. McGuire.

Thank you so much. We've reached out to 18 individuals as part of the Kapa'a Kai group. analysis, it resulted in five interviews that were done. I can go through who those individuals were. Jocelyn Costa, the Hamakualoa representative for the Ahamoku, Lucien Denae, longtime resident and president of the Community Association of Haiku, Noreen Taylor, who was a previous property owner, I don't want to miss Dr. Scott Fisher, Chair of the Maui Lanai Island Burial Council, Director of Aina Stewardship Ho'i Land Trust. And then we have Kaneali'i Williams, who's here with us today, completed our interview questionnaire. And then we had three other individuals submit email testimony. Yeah, we did speak with 18 individuals and one of our recommendations was to consider the incorrect survey boundaries in that LCA.

Thank you. What's incorrect? Okay, follow up. Go ahead.

We recommended conducting a land survey to verify the original boundaries of the LCA. I'm not sure if they're incorrect or not, but that was spoken of by several individuals that were consulted.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. For my opportunity, you know, I do believe that the August 8th fires affected not only Lahaina but Maui, Maui County, State of Hawaii, and really from the outpouring of support around the world. That being said, I'm supportive of fire stations, and I think it's sorely needed. And I guess my concern is we've seen things held up in court and as Mr. Connelly-Williams has stated he's studying law and this could go to court. So as him with him as a resource and he did bring up a lot of these concerns on June 5th and then I had asked Corp Council to look into those concerns. And Ms. DeJardin at the last council meeting said she thought she had, that you guys were sufficiently prepared to address the legal concerns that Mr. Kaneali'i Williams had brought up on June 5th. Do we need him to restate his legal concerns or were you ready to address them? without him restating them?

I can address them without.

Okay, and then if he misses anything that you brought up, please. Okay, go ahead.

Well, like I said, we have a clear title report saying that we have clear title, free and clear to that property. It's has a Schedule B that has things that they identified and excluded, but none of those things included any other property interests, any that may be outstanding. They were for things like roadway easements and whatnot. But the federal report said that the county owned the designated property, free and clear as tenant in severalty, meaning we own the entire interest for that portion of land.

And you're referring to the 6.2 acres or the entire?

The entire, that entire parcel. The 27, I want to say, let me pull it up.

You don't need to, you can go on.

Oh, yeah, for the entire parcel that the Haiku Fire Station is being located on.

Thank you. I think Mr. Kaneali'i also brought up concerns about 6E. And that wasn't the entirety of your legal concerns that the title was free and clear. Was there other legal concerns that you had?

Yes, but I do want to backtrack a bit because there's a few things that are being skirted over. Firstly, is that Department of Fire, Public Safety, Department of Finance, Department of Planning, as well as Department of Corporation Council have all received WIPO requests and responded to WIPO requests, specifically requesting All their documents showing a clear chain of title from the land patent 6553 to Florence Wood, which you folks are saying your title policy says is the original title, which is not true. Back to the Royal Patent 383, which is the allotial title given by the Kingdom of Hawaii government to Richard Armstrong. And all four of those departments all stated that they do not possess any records fitting that request. which means that there is no clear title from the land patent back to the actual title, which is connected back to the Land Commission Award for William Pitley Leohoku. And in between that, in your map that you showed, you're focusing on, in the purple, upon a four of Land Commission Award 3336 in Ulupi. But if you paid attention to the affidavit I provided, I'm talking about upon a five. which is tied to Lima Ikaika, who is Richard Armstrong, and Lima Ikaika's name is on his Royal Patent. So our Panna 5 boundaries is the entirety of what is in the Royal Patent 383, which is the entirety of the ahupua'a of East Kuiaha. So that's the first thing. Sorry, there's just so much. As far as the 6e, that is pertaining to the burials that are marked on the property that none of the AISs have registered, recognized, acknowledged. That is the historic property's HRS code. Because there is a marked burial. I have photographs of it. I know where it's at.

May I clarify, in the SHPD documents, it does say one new site was documented, SIHP 5050066678. rock alignment, that's not what you're referring?

No, that is separate from the burial I'm talking about. Okay, thank you. And there are photographs. SHPTI has that burial registration. In fact, there was an interviewee in the Kapalakai analysis who mentioned the burials, and I followed up with a burial registration after I found the burial site. Again, also, I want to backtrack to the funding part because The Congress congressional funding that did not come through had to do with funding from, I believe, the Department of Agriculture, which was 10,000, I think 10 million that Jill Takuya attempted to get from Congress in 2024, and that did not come through. In 2025 is when the funding came through for a different set of funding to backfill. And that was confirmed, again, both by the fiscal year 2026 and 27 of the mayor's response. Also, I do recall that it was Corp Council that was supposed to answer that question about the funding, not other entities. I recall Chair Tamar asking Corp Council to provide that. The Department of Finance, I did send a weeper request about that. They said that they don't have any records, and they referred me to the mayor's office. So I filed a weeper request with the mayor's office, which is due in two days, for them to answer that question as well, because it hasn't been answered by the parties that were supposed to answer it today. I know there's more as far as the title issue. Oh, the part that we're jumping around again is that the administration has already stated what its policy is about land acquisitions, that when it purchases property and then discovers that somebody else has title to it, the policy is to hand it over to that family. So as far as the counties claim a title, I would say it's not clear because you folks have already admitted that, but also that policy comes into play where it's supposed to be handed over. Also, you can't hand over something that you don't have. Yeah, there's all these layers. Oh, the RCD.

Just clarifying, do you have access to a deed for the Royal Patent or the Land Commission Award?

I provided that in my affidavit that I provided in that 100 pages, and it lays out um i can go over what's in it again it has my birth certificate birth certificate from the u.s department of navy because i was born in a military hospital um it has my shifty documents verifying my genealogy tunalopi also mentions it was through a land commission award which is on the descendancy in east kuyaha there's a document from shifty again with the confirmation from mlibc Then in that affidavit is William Pitlileohoku's native register that shows all of his ahupua'a that he registered his claim to, including Kuiaha, followed by his probate, determining who his heirs were, followed by a 1850 Privy Council resolution that gave his heirs the authority to have a royal patent as well as stated that the land commission reserved nothing in that resolution shall be construed to interfere with the right of the land commission to settle all title disputes. And then nothing shall be construed to interfere with the rights of native tenants in the lands. So, every council resolution after that, Armstrong, Kaylee Kulani, who was William Pitt Lileohoku's heir, She sells East Kuiaha to Richard Armstrong, and I have that deed in the affidavit. And in the deed, it also says Lima Ikaika because Lima is arm or hand, arm, Ikaika strong, Lima Ikaika Armstrong. It has both of his names in that. He received his real patent from Kawe Keoli, which also has the reservation clause saying the rights of common natives in said lands are reserved. on the English one and then on the Hawaiian Royal Patent in Hawaiian language. At the top, it shows C original deed from Keali Kulani to Lima I Kaika, and it has in parentheses Armstrong. Following that is the awarding of Land Commission Award 3336 to Nalopi, which there are six total apana. Everybody is so focused on the apana four, which is also important because that's where the water corridor is being planned through. trying to skirt around the Pana 5, which is documented on that paper and has Limayikaika's name on it. The Pana 5 is the same as the Royal Patent 383. It's a direct paper link. And then when following that in the affidavit, there's also the name testimony for Leleohoku's lands. Again, it says, again, Kuyaha. It refers back to the Privy Council resolution from 1850. Following that is a deed from Armstrong selling his remaining interest because he cannot sell someone else's interest like my tutu's interest. He sold his remaining interest to S. Porter Ford. Porter Ford dies, his estate gets sold at public auction to Catherine N. Lee. And in that deed, it says pursuant to the law of the property, which everything I just said prior to that deed, All the laws that are applied to that property, the Privy Council resolution that nothing shall interfere with my native land rights, the Koi Kuleana Kanaka and Lileohoku's LCA, Maitutu's LCA, all of that is locked in by these laws. And this is way before the land patent 6553, which is territory period laws and Republic of Hawaii laws, not the original kingdom laws where these lands were awarded with the original titles. And so court counsel should have, or supposed to have reviewed that. So there was a lot that was missing in the deliberation on court counsel's part, which I think is very, what, 35 business days since the last meeting. That was plenty of time to review everything that I provided. And I'm trying to make your folks' job easier because there's no, we shouldn't have to get into a legal battle if we know what is the actual truth behind the property. And the County has admitted through its own paperwork to me through repo request and has a policy that is supposed to return to the family, irregardless. And our family has never sold to begin with.

Thank you. I went a little over my time, but that was the answering of the question that was within the time limit. So, Next up is Member Rollins-Fernandez.

I'll make this quick because we will reconvene. My question was answered when you called on our resource personnel, Mr. Williams. I just wanted to clarify that most of the testifiers that I heard say that they support the construction of a fire station on that side of the island. Then just continuing to argue the need or justification is missing the core of the issue, which is land title. Then to continue pushing the argument of the need, starts to sound like what's being argued is Kanaka land rights don't matter because we need a fire station. And I know that's not what is being meant, but that's what it starts to sound like if we're not careful. Every time an item comes up that could displace Kanaka Maoli from their ancestral land, Member Sugimura couldn't be more eager to vote to displace Kanaka as quickly as possible and disregard their valid concerns. I do believe that there is a way to not displace Kanaka. We just have to care and figure it out. That's all. Mahalo Chair.

Whatever.

Thank you. So That being said, have the members had an opportunity to look at their calendars on a recess date? For me, it looks as though I'm available on both dates, which perhaps we will need. I don't know that it matters for Mr. Batongan. We may have... A formal disruling by then. Remember, UU Hodgins are the 7th and 10th. Good for you. Afternoon of this from 2 p.m. All day on the 10th.

Yes.

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rollins Fernandez is a yes. Sinensi is a yes. I'm a yes. Member Sugimura. 10th. Better. The 10th is better for you. Not the 7th. Yeah. Okay. And then Member Cook or Member Johnson, whoever's ready first.

I have something on my calendar on the 7th and the 10th is actually open at this point.

10th is open. So right now, um, But we're not having it on Saturday. So it looks like on the 10th, we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on the 10th. I didn't ask Charlie before she left. Member Cook?

Bear with me. I'm looking.

Okay. Technology.

I believe I'm ready. I'm available on the 10th. That would be in the morning?

It would be all day, potentially.

I'm available.

Okay.

Okay, we're locked in, guaranteed for the 10th. I'm not sure if we needed both dates, but we need to know if more folks are available on the 7th. But for now, everyone lock in the 10th, because for sure, the 10th. Does that sound okay with you folks?

All right. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I do have a 1.30 on the 10th. So the seventh time free. But it might be just an hour meeting. I haven't stepped away. That's all you have.

Okay. Maybe we can plan for a 1.30 lunch if you want or something. Or We might not need you for an hour either. So is there any objection to recessing this meeting at this time? Because it's five minutes into you folks' lunch.

Objections.

August 10th at 9 for sure. Thank you. Uh, simply speaker chair. Oh, yes.

So yes, to clarify. So the committee would be recessing to Monday, August 10th and nine o'clock a.m. To the same Microsoft teams link we're using today and connections that are being used today with in person viewing available available here in the colonnade bookway conference room planning conference room.

Okay, so are we locking in the 10th right now and we're discarding the 7th then?

If that's what the body wants to do, yes.

Okay, because we have to see it before we recess. Okay. Oh, both these are no good for the chief. You could have people. Anna and Wilton, yes. Miss McGuire, you okay on the tent?

I can be there.

Okay, great. Maybe, I don't know if folks want to write any questions that they may have for the fire department ahead of time, just send it into committee staff and maybe he can get them to the chief and then whoever he sends as his designee. Is that allowed? No?

Admittedly, we're not sure that'd be okay, Chair.

Oh, not okay. Okay. Can they call the chief on their own and talk to him in the interim? Okay. That's what it is. If you have questions for the chief, you got to just call him up. Tell him I sent you.

Okay.

And I think that's all the things that need to be said. If there's no objection, I will recess to August 10th at 9 AM, same Microsoft Teams link. We just heard that Charlie is also available on the 10th at 9 AM, so there you have it. Same link, same physical location, All the things James said. And is there any objection to recessing this meeting at this time?

No objections.

Okay, this meeting is in recess. The time is 12.09.