Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

So, I have to get new. Okay, we're ready. Today is January 20th, 2026. The Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is called to order at this time. It's that time of year that we need to um nominate a president and a vice president before we go on with the meeting. Is there any nominations for uh president? Nominate Rebecca Lidle. I'll second. Any other nominations? Seeing that there is none. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Nomination uh for vice president. Need a nomination. Um, see Daniel. Okay. I nominate Danielle Roer. I second. Any other nominations? With there being none, then congratulations. Oh, thank you. Now, we'll need the approval of the uh meeting uh regular meeting minutes from December 16th, 2025. I need a motion and a second, please. I move we adopt the minutes. Second. All those in favor signify by saying I.

I. I. Those opposed. Minutes stand as written. Any unfinished business at this time? Any special requests, continuence or withdrawals or waiverss? With there being none, though, anybody in um if anybody wishing to speak tonight, please stand and raise your right hand, please. Do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Answer with I do.

Thank you. If you've not done so, please sign in the back of the uh room so the secretary will have record. New business 25 LSB126202 Sunnyside City of Lawrence let's see request a variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolid zoning subdivision signed ordinance table 744-906-12G to permit an electronic variable message monument sign not permitted. Good evening sir. Hello. How are you this evening? Good.

Can y'all hear me? Okay. Hello. My name is Rob Preswood and I'm one of the trustees at the church. And first, let me start by apologizing. We were supposed to be here last month and the pastor was going to come and his wife had to have emergency eye surgery. And so, he took her to the hospital and by the time he was able to get a hold of me, uh, it was too late for us to to be at the meeting. So, we're please forgive us for for missing last time. I actually have a handout here of the of the sign if you guys want to. kind of made one for each of you, I think. Sure.

Just kind of explains a little bit about um what the sign looks like um and things like that. We originally uh that church has been there since 1975. Um and this is actually our sixth sign. Um and we're sorry we we never got a variance for any of those other signs. Um we didn't know we had to get one. So, and we understand that that's not that's no excuse that we need to do that. And so, uh, I'm here tonight to find out what else, if anything else, um, we need to do, uh, to be able to have our sign. As you can see by the picture there, we actually already have the sign. Um, but we didn't know we needed it. So, we got the sign, we put it up, and, uh, Miss Renee gave us a call and said, "Hey, what are you doing? You guys don't have a bearings for that sign. You can't turn that on." Oh, sorry. Sorry. So, we turned the sign off, and it's been and it's been off ever since. Um but uh and we're going to leave it off until you tell us we can turn it back on. Um but just whatever else that we need to do um to be able to do that is is kind of why I'm again kind of why I'm here tonight. If you look at that the handout things that I gave you that kind of give you the specs of the sign, kind of shows you a little bit about how it is, what it looks like now. It's actually a lot smaller than the sign we had there before um that we that we didn't get the very either. But uh so whatever we need to do tonight, we're here to uh we're here to find out what that is and uh and do what we have to do so we can turn on our our new sign so people can find us uh in the dark. I guess

these are the Okay, I can hit you with the first question. Uh this is a digital sign. Is that right? I'm sorry. It's a digital sign. Is that right? Yes. How many colors and what's the brightness? Well, it should be all on your on your handout right there. But when we talked to Miss Renee, she said there may be some limitations. Well, our sign is Wi-Fi and we all control it off from a computer. So, whatever your varameters are, we can put that in there and we'll make that sign as bright or as dull as you want. We understand we can't have red, yellow, or green. I She shared that with us. So, we're not going to do that. Um, but whatever else we need to do to to be able to turn that thing on.

Faith, if you will look on the second page there, it says uh the EVMS commitments. That's what Oh, the commitments. Those are the commitments. You guys have already proposed commitments. Yes. These are what every sign that electronical sign that has gone up in the city of Lawrence. Um has to agree to there. So each sign will be identical. It's in our packet. Oh, in our packet. Where is it? In our packet. Oh, no. When would when did this start? Do you remember 15 years ago? These have been in place for 15 years. And you're willing to

whatever you think whatever you say we need to do, we're going to do it. Yeah. We're not we're not here to fund. We're here to find out what we need to do. So the commitments that are here. Yeah. Okay. I saw those earlier. Mr. N made it very clear that we had to do it. 3day raffle, director of public works. The commitments, the 10 commitments on the second page of your staff report. Pastor Terry Wall has talked to his board of trustees and they have agreed to all. Okay. Or eight. It's eight on this one. Sorry. Did you guys get yours? Rene, you're mixing up the ten command.

We do that, too. We do that, too. We're all about that command. Oh my gosh. It's the eight commandments. commitments. See? Okay. I see it now. Okay. You see? Yes. I'm familiar with these commitments. Have that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. These are the normal ones. Yes. Yes. These are the normal ones. Okay. Okay. I have a question. Can Can you clarify the name because cuz the sign I saw and you're right. I I went through them like the sign's already up, but it says the Life Church, but Yeah.

Well, this is Lord Apostolic Church for a long time, but like a lot of things, we're rebranding. And so legally under our legal documents, we are still Lawrence Apostolic Church, but we are going to operate as the life church. So the new sign will say the life church. So like DBA. Yeah. Type thing. Okay. I see. I see. So it's a sign. I see you guys fresh. Is that what it is? I don't know something. So I guess obviously you guys are doing a lot of renovation. So the new sign has to come along with the the renovation church and everything to make it a little bit more modern. Yeah. We've been saving money for years and we finally got enough and we said, "You know what? It's time to We're growing." Actually, we're actually We had to move our congregation into our gymnasium. Oh, wow.

Because um y'all should come check it out. It's I've seen it. I've seen it taking shape. Yeah. You guys used to be a polling place. No. Are you still You know what? We haven't been a polling place. It's something we've talked about, but um it's next door. No, you know, when we get this new building and we'll have the room. We should We should be I'm trying to remember. It might be the church. There's two churches next door to each other, right? Well, we have if you on that row, if you go on the other side of the tracks, there's a church. And if you go down the little there's a little swell and up on the hill, there's another church. So, there's there's three of us right there within There's one right on the corner at 63rd. And there's no res Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. But it's it's correct. There's no residential. There's no residential at all.

So, we actually um Mr. Rene said there were some letters that we had to send out. So, we did send those out. Um, and we we uh we didn't get anything. I mean, we didn't get anything back, but we did send all those letters out to let folks know that we were to have the sign there. Okay. Um, so I I see that you have hours of operation regarding Monday through Friday. What about the weekends? Well, we have we have service on Sunday. We have service we have Sunday school at 10:00 and regular service at 11:00. But but it says here that consistent status image during the rush hours. So then this means that it just stays static on one thing. It won't be changing. No, it will be changing. I think our plan is to have it changing.

Okay. It says the E and number four commitment says the EVMS screen will be on consistent status image during rush hours of 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and 400 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. during the weekdays Monday through Friday. Yes. So you're just going to keep it on one message. It's not going to be changing. Right. Right. On during rush hour. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yeah. We don't want to we don't want to distract anybody. That's a the railroad tracks are right there. And so um we'll just have it we'll just have it on. And this sign will be serving only your church. I mean you won't be putting up any other information except for that related to the church. No.

Um okay. And then finally it says that you uh the brightness and all that will be automatically determined. Will you be working with our staff here to make sure that those settings are within the what's allowed? One of the answers I'm hoping to get tonight is you guys tell me how bright it can be and that's how bright it'll be. We defer to staff on that one. Okay. Right. I'm going to tell people what's new. So, yeah. So, whatever y'all say. Yeah. That that's one of the I know that's one of the questions that uh that Pastor Long had as well. and and it's probably in here, but if you could just refresh me,

what are the dimensions of the actual sign itself? Not the rock that it's sitting on, but the sign and then that banner. You're right. It is in there. Um, second page, right? So, it's looks like it's 96 by 48. Like I said, the sign that we had before, we h we've always had the if you look on your picture though, we've always had the rock, right? Yeah. And then we had this big thing. It was this big giant sign, but with this new digital sign, we were afraid the wind would just destroy that thing. So, we just made it a lot lower. So, it's a lot closer to the ground. So, the rock is not going to be there.

No, the rock is there. What you see there now is what's there now. We want to We want to leave that now. But, it's a good So, it's going to be 96 in high or 48. It's It's 96 wide and Oh, 96 feet wide. inches. Inches. Okay. I'm getting a I'm getting feet from one and inches from the other. So, it is. So, it's 96 in wide, 48 inches tall. Nope, it's Well, it's 48 inches. The sign the one sign is 48 there and the other sign is 36. So, then that would you can make it 84 in tall. Seven feet tall from from the uh from the rock base.

From the rock. So, how tall is the rock base? I think the rock base is 2 and 1/2 ft tall. So, it's almost 10 foot tall sign probably something like that. And and um and okay, I guess I'll have to ask staff when she comes up about if we have any kind of regulation regarding sign height and all of that as well. But you're not asking for variance of that. You're just asking for variance of being able to put in an EVP electronic turn it on. And that's what we're going to do. Okay. Board have any other questions? Thank you. Thank you.

Are there anybody for or against the petition? You need to step up. There's ahead of your name and address.

Name is Litita Presswood 7414 Campfire Run and I am one of the parishioners there at uh the Life Church and we would like to have our sign available for all to be able to see. It's we've decreased it in height um significantly um and it's now just a blank sign that only during the daylight you can see it. Thank you.

My name is Christopher Petrusi. I live at 7709 High View Circle, Indianapolis. I'm one of the trustees of the church also and I'm for the the signage approval hopefully. Okay, thank you. Anybody else for or against the petition? Okay, we'll hear from the city of Lawrence. Renee Raflla, director of public works. Um, if you look at my staff report, Karen, on page,

page eight, this page, do we have that? Yes, ma'am. It's part of your staff report. There's a picture of the sign. It is 120 in tall. So that would be 10 feet from the ground to the top of the sign. Up to 10 feet. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um I'm sorry. I but I don't have a Do you have a staff report?

Do you have We don't have I do. This is the packet. I got two packets. Is this it, Rene? Well, he gave us Oh, yeah. It's page three of what was handed out to us. Oh, it's in the staple packet. Yeah, in your staple pack. It says signage detail. This this packet is what you're looking at with the staff report and then it's the second to the last page.

Oh, okay. I see right there. Yeah. Yeah. This right here. Did you get it? I didn't get this. Well, not this one. Yeah, he came with this one. I know. I didn't get the stapled part. Yes, this I don't have anything stapled. This is This is Stafford. Yeah, I got I don't have But that's okay. I didn't share it. Okay. So, it's going to be back here. That's This is the drive. Yeah. That's what you're looking for. Okay. Okay. It looks like it didn't copy the back page. That's what this It's on the back. It didn't do that. Okay. Okay, that if you want to share that one. It's 120.

I got part. You got part. So that's between the two. We'll get it all. Now when you say 120 in Okay. When you say 120 in tall, that does not That's from the ground. That's from the ground, including the rock stone base. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Now, and the other one was 168, right? Yes. Okay. So, it is significantly less in height. It is a little wider. Um, but it it the reason we're here is because of the electronic portion of the sign. So, those aren't allowed anywhere in the city.

Right. Right. And and so my only concern about EVPs is that once you allow one to come in and and nobody is supposed to have any whatsoever, then what do we say?

Well, we make them um we ask them that if they want our support for it that they have to agree with the EDS commitments that we've done for the last 15 years for any sign that we've approved, which includes that the signs are turned off between midnight and 6:00 a.m. every day. Um, they'll have no flashing or scrolling messages. It'll change instantaneously from one message to another. Um, it can't change any faster than six seconds. It has to have a consistent status message during rush hours, which we determined to be 7:30 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and 4 to 6:00 p.m. on weekdays, Monday through Friday. Um, it cannot have monochronomatic messages or messages with the dominant color of red, yellow, or green because we don't want to interfere with potential intersections. Um, this one red specifically because of the railroad crossing. um it has to have a system that automatically dims the brightness. So like on a bright sunny day, it's going to adjust to compensate for the sun. At night, it'll adjust to compensate for the darkness so that it's not too bright. We had an issue with the one there's a one of the very first signs that we approved

um was for Lawrence Central and I don't know if you drive by that at night, but it is so bright. Yeah. So, right. So, that was we that's how we came up with this list of commitments. Um, in addition to that, they're not allowed to have any banners or anything located in the windows on the same side as the building with the EVMS. So, that's again something we do on all businesses. Not all of them are churches. So, we don't want having an electronic sign and then have all these banners in the windows. For instance, if the new Starbucks wanted an EVMS sign, they wouldn't be allowed to have anything in their windows if they got one.

Okay. So, so then here's my question. If we have a I guess if we have an ordinance that says there are no EVMS signs, period, but we have a practice that says you can have an EVMS sign if you do these things. That's why don't we have an ordinance that says we because it's a Marian County ordinance and we don't have our control of the zoning ordinance right now. Yes. So we are obligated by that. I guess

it does set a precedence, but we take each case. They have to come. Each case has to come before you. And you can look at it and consider if there's a neighborhood that's too close and it's going to cause an issue. If for some reason I'm trying to think of when it we have turned down signs, turned down a couple of them. This board has and and they're not banned. I mean, the statute doesn't ban them. Well, no. It just says you can't. You just have to make the facts sensitive inquiry and that's why they come before for the variance. But that's but what she's saying is and maybe I'm misunderstanding. But what she's saying is that the law says you cannot have this kind of sign within the city without a variance.

And you can't you can only have it if you have a variance and we'll grant you the variance if you agree to these things. Not necessarily. We're we're not saying you're automatically going to get the variance approved. No. So do we have we look at each one individually. It's discretionary. I look to see if we're the discretionary arm of that ordinance. So then is do we have then things that address height if we're going to grant these? That's part of the zoning code addresses height. This complied with that. The only thing that this didn't comply with was the electronics portion of the sign. Okay. They can have the sign 10 ft tall. Yeah.

That's not the problem. The problem is that section that is EVMS. And and the variance is really critical here because we have to make that factsensitive inquiry. Is this a danger to public safety? Right? Is this and so because we live in Lawrence then we are in the best position to make the that discretionary call. And so I think that's why they sent us for a variance.

So part of approving any petition, you have to prove that the findings of fact can be met. The findings of fact for this petition or the grant will not be interest to the public health, safety, morals or general welfare of the community. The use or value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner. And the strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance will result in a practical difficulty in the use of the property. Right. My position is they've fulfilled two of the three findings of fact. Um, I don't I'm not seeing a practical difficulty except for they want an EVMS sign and ordinance doesn't allow it.

But aren't they supposed to meet all three? Well, it's um we weigh the factors. I mean, you don't have to grant it. No, I know. I know. It's just I I'm still learning the process here. I'm And I mean, the original sign was illegal. No, no. They didn't have a very The original sign. There was nothing wrong with the original sign. Was it a EMP? Oh, okay. I thought you were saying it was when they put the EVMS component in it. That's when I reached out to Pastor Long

and said, "Uhoh, no, you can't do that. The EVMS isn't allowed." I let him go ahead and finish building the sign because the sign people were there, right? And apply for the variance. If it doesn't get approved by this board, they'll have to take it down. And and that's why for something else, we have the commitments is so that all electronic signs in the city of Lawrence has the same criteria, the same criteria. I don't have to look it up and say, "Oh, well, this one does meets this requirement. This one doesn't. We've made this list of commitments that are all the same."

Right? So we're doing I mean just our first amendment we're doing reasonable TPM time place manner restrictions. Well yes and then I I and I realize that because that's all we can do and get into content but I guess and then I'll shut up but I my only Indianapolis the code there does not allow for these and they create experiences every day for them because there is a concern about other people wanting them. They've become like the new thing for everybody to have. And so then you potentially face a street that's full of them. I am looking. This church is not on Pendleton Pike, right?

No, ma'am. It's on Sunnyside. Okay. Just uh north of the tracks. So there's not really any commercial much commercial or anything around. Well, Westminster is directly across the street from it. And as he said earlier, there's two other churches on the on the road. It's two churches. It's the the Myers plast is it the plastic Myers plastic US lumber storage. Well, that was that was my concern is that if you have all of those there if they all want signs is what I'm saying. And they all agree. But they all and they all agreed to what you've just said. We don't have a basis for declining them from based upon what you're saying here tonight. If they agree to do this and we can't get into content with it would be dependent on each property.

We have to look at its merits. Each sign we have to look at its merits and yes these are some of the commitments we have made but we also have to look at a lot of the other residential traffic all that not every sign electronical sign can be will could be rep could be approved we have to look at everything right you're just saying those we've denied we've denied several for being too large for being too close to the road for being um too bright too right right across from a housing. Yeah. Or there or there's or it's congested to a protected district

or being too congested with other signage. So there's a lot of reasons where we think especially public safety when you could when you get to as you know maybe your hypothetical of like maybe everyone wants one of these signs now. Well, I think being too congested with electronic signs would cause a public safety issue because now you've got people craning their necks, averting their eyes from traffic, and now we're going to have increased accidents. So, um, you know, first come, first serve, maybe to some extent, but I think that there the more congested it gets with EVMs, I think the more of a public safety issue you might have. And so, the factors may start to weigh the opposite way, if that makes sense. That's kind of how I would analyze it.

So like these commitments are just the minimum that they all have at least that and then after that we'll look at other they all have to at least do because our priority is the safety of our community. Yeah. And and so for some of these it's you know that our first factor is you know public safety but then you know think of our second one. We're worried about the adjacent land owners to make sure that this isn't going to detract from the property from the value of their property. What is around this church? It's all sounds like it's all churches and commercial the railroad tracks, a church kind of behind it, a church on the north side of the tracks and then Westminster Village across. So there's no residential around it. Not really. It's more behind it would be is I think it's Kensington Commons

and I take it the building the building shields that residential from the site. Oh yeah, from the there's quite a bit of acorage behind the church that's not developed and a tree line behind there. Sorry. Okay. Thank you for your patience in explaining that. This is my first sign like that here. So, did you anybody else come to the bane of our existence? Wait till we get to the billboards. No, no, no, no. Scooter's over there like with a twitch. Oh, the billboards. Any other questions for uh But at the end of the day, we're just time place man or Yeah. Any more questions for Renee? We've gotten sued before.

Thank you. Thank you, petitioner. You have anything else to add? Okay. The board ready to vote? Yeah. Yeah. The board is voting on 25 LSV126202 Sunnyside Road, a request of various development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolidating zoning subdivision sign ordinance table 744-906-12G to prevent an electronic variable sign monument sign. Huh? Okay. To go along with this petition, it also is the eight commitments that are in the staff report.

Thank you. Thank you. The board has unanimously granted your petition. Thank you. Mhm. The board now will hear 26 LSB016906 Royal Oakland Way. Uh request a var variance of development standards to construct a porch within an easement per 743-3-6A 4D table 744-204-1. Hello.

Hello. Good evening. My name is Bill Brochious with William Gordon Group. I live at 5627 Central Avenue, Indianapolis, Indiana. Um, we are requesting a variance of development standards today for the property listed and it is to construct a porch in the backyard which is in a easement, a drainage easement. Um, I I believe you guys have these drawings, but I also brought copies if you would like me to hand them out. Yours are bigger. So, yeah. Yeah, that's a big one. Yeah,

my gosh. Here's the staff report from the last one. It was in this packet. That's why we were all so confused. The was in the wrong It was in the wrong one. I'm flipping through his petition and there's this tag. Sorry. Thank you. But we weren't crazy. Like it was in there. It just was not out of order. Do you Is yours in there, too? Yeah.

All right. These are the same drawings that we sent to Renee earlier and were presented to you guys. Mhm. Um if you look, the house is on um old Oakland golf course,

and it is basically like a walkout basement, so it's on a pretty steep hill. Um there's also a um old ditch beside it, which is the drainage easement, and it just kind of wraps around the back of the property. So, we are requesting to build a porch that would be you'd consider an open porch. If you flip to the last page, you'll see some renderings of it that kind of give you a better feel for what's happening. So, you can see the bottom right is a picture of what it looks like now. And then if you look to the upper left, um that is what we are requesting the variance to build. The grade is not changing in any way. So, if you see at the bottom of that upper left picture, see the little rounded thing at the bottom, that is the same stairway that's kind of by the fire pit, showing that the grade is not really changing. And we believe that easement, there's a a drainage ditch off to the side of that house that kind of drains the other side of the street. There's a culvert that runs through it. So, in my opinion, that is basically there to maintain that that culvert. And back when that easement was probably written, the neighborhood was looked a lot different. So anyway, there's really no reason to get up onto this property to have to maintain any part of that easement.

Can I I want to ask a question. So the this existing slab in the picture, are you expanding the slab at all or No, we'll have to take it out and put it back, but it will it will look like this be at the same elevation when we're done. So, it's not getting any further out. And maybe I could have asked that better because my qu So, drainage is always an issue, right? But, um, if it if it's already existing and you're just going to put it back into the same basic, is it going to is it going to be larger than it currently is? Maybe that's what I'm asking. Uh, no. Okay. Yeah, I understand your question. Yeah. I didn't know heating up more or any of that. Right.

Right. So, if it's currently existing, have there been any issues with drainage on the property? No. No. It's cuz is there is there a creek back here or what's what's No, the golf course is down below it. Yes. Drops another probably 30 ft from that is the golf course. It's still a pretty good drop down to the golf course. And then if you look on the you kind of see in the picture the blue umbrella or whatever that is. Yeah. On the other side of that is what you'd say is the drainage ditch, which is kind of what is driving that easement. Okay. And I'm sorry, I know you did your introduction and you're the architect or the engineer, uh, general contractor, but we also designed it. So, design, build. Okay.

So, both. And how long has this house been here? Uh, built in Yeah. 2000, I think. Something like that. So, it's been there a while. This this porch has been there for that long, too. Uh, the patio has the patio, right? Yes. Yes. It was built with the house. That's correct. So, definitely would know if there's any drainage. Um, so if I need to ask staff, but if you you probably know the answer to this. So, even if we grant you this estimate, you have to take it for review by drainage by the city of Indianapolis, right? Uh, yes. Has to get an IOP through Indianapolis. Lawrence. Just Lawrence, not Indianapolis.

Not Indianapolis. Never mind. Different different topic. Okay. So, but yes, it still has to go through the permit process and all that checked and correct. So, do we have any You're going to hate me. Um, so this sits how far from the edge of the is it's a flood plane that's there adjacent. Correct. Uh, down farther is the golf course is a flood plane. It's not at this spot. Oh, I see. Okay. Because on on the drawing, it was kind of misleading on the drawing we had because it looked like it's off to the side of the where this is going to be placed and maybe I just misread that, but on our little

talking about the fourth or so. Yeah. So, that that that flood plane, is it a hundredyear flood plane? Do you know what it is? uh the flood plane. I mean, there's a hundredyear line that is on the FEMA map. Okay. And that is that the line that's closest to this property? Uh it it is down there. I can't tell you how far it is. It does not come up anywhere close to this. See, that's why 100 years on the property. I could is 100 years on the property.

I I I can't answer that without looking closer. I don't think so, but I don't know. See, that was what was conf because I couldn't tell on the little map there um how far off. Sure. If we were into the flood plane, we we wouldn't be able to do that, right? No, I totally understand it. Okay. But I would, and I'm not expertise in this at all, but

I would assume that part of the reason why that drainage easement was put in there was because it's close to the flood plane and at times there were problems with um flooding and and needing to get water runoff and all that going. Is that a fair assumption? Um, I think this drainage easement is just because an area of the golf course in the neighborhood drains to a certain area and then it crosses the street in a culvert and the culvert sticks out. Well, I can kind of show you. That's the So, the golf course is down here. Okay.

The the culvert comes right across here. So, it's draining this area. goes into like a beehive structure right there. Goes across and empties out right here. And then there is a ditch that continues down this way that dumps that water out into the golf course that is well below the elevation that we are talking about with the porch. So whoever came up with the drainage ement just wrapped it around. So So the probably because the grades were all different back before the sub. There's a when you say wrapped it around, what do you mean? picture. Uh when these ding when the drainage easements are made, in my experience, typically they're following a contour line somewhere.

There's some rationale somebody does to what is an easement and what they don't think needs to be an easement. That's that's what I was guessing as to the intent of the person that did that oh so many years ago. The city of Lawrence will address all the drainage issues, but if it's been there for 20ome years and Yeah, that I think that was my question. So, and when you So, what you're saying basically you have to you have to rip it out and put it back in. Correct. In order to make it the the cover. Well, they're remodeling. I get it. Right. So, um I mean is there anything the thing I think I'm particularly trying to narrow out is like what is actually changing if anything? Well, we are other than the covering but like

Right. We are building a structure that's in the easement. That's why we're here today. Yeah. But the slab there like the slab it's not changing. Nothing with drainage or anything that's not changing. It's all staying just the same. And the slab's not a structure. Correct. Correct. And so I guess so we're and I'll I'll talk with staff about that. Um the um the slam do. So, at this point in time though, you do not know if there's anything in that easement, whether it be clay tile, whether it be something in there. Do we have any idea?

Uh, nothing is shown on any of the utility locators back there or any of the site GIS maps. I would not anticipate there's anything in there, but we don't know for sure. Well, no, we have staff on that. It's somebody's somebody's backyard, so I can't imagine. Yeah. Yeah, you would know. I mean, oh, I I don't know. I lived in a flood plane downtown Indianapolis, so at one point. So, yeah, they we had all kinds of stuff going through there. So, but okay. Thank you. Board have any other questions for the petitioner? Thank you, sir. Thank you guys. Anybody for or against the petition?

Okay. With there not being any, we'll hear from the city of Lawrence. Renee Rafa, director of public works. You guys all have the staff report. Are you looking at this? If we can go to page three and four. You don't have it in this petition. I have the staff report for the last one. Did you look at the other ones to see if maybe it was Mine has I'm like, "Yeah, they were all but I got the right one." How many pages?

Uh, one, two, three, five. Does it have back? Is it pictures and drawings? I have the application. This Yeah, I got He's got it in his hand. The back. So, then it's got Oh, no. I saw that online. I want to show you. I want you to look at this picture here with the flood plane. Yeah, that's one I I knew I saw that online, but I didn't color, but this is it right here. If you look at that, the yellow lines are the property lines and the green lines are the drainage and utility ements. But ours is black and white. This is double-sided. This is This is doublesided. I don't have that.

So, that shows the um So, it's a 100redyear flood zone. Okay. The patio that is existing does not encroach into the flood zone and just barely is in the drainage easement. The reason we're here today is because they're building a structure over the existing patio where the footers will be in the drainage ement.

There are no structures until you get towards the front of the house, the culvert that he was talking about. It's an open ditch that drains into a culvert before it goes under the road. So the only structure is that culvert. There's no pipe. It's all open ditching through the golf course. There is about a 30 foot elevation change as he said between the where the property line is and the golf course.

It there is an elevation change. Um, I don't feel that the structure they're planning is going to impede any drainage at all. There's already an existing patio there. They're going to pull it up and change the material type. It's going to be pavers or stamped concrete. I can't really tell by what this is, but it will go through a complete drainage review prior to us releasing the permit. So, just to make sure. So, what you're say Okay. Is that the drainage ditch right there? the drainage easement here. Okay, here's the full staff report. I figured out what's happening with our staff report issues. The staff reports are doublesided,

but they were they were copied on one side. And I think that was really good. It's not me going crazy. No, it's not you. Is not that color. Okay. So, yes, this is the drainage ement. Yeah, this is the property line. The yellow is the property line. The green is the drainage. Can't really see. So everything between this is all drainage easement. The patio is already there. All this is concrete and the and the drainage ement already. So between these two green lines here is all is drainage. Correct. Okay. And so this and that's why the flood plane comes up in here because that's all back into correct course. And you can see the edge of the hundredyear flood plane just barely touches the concrete.

That's why I thought the patio was already in the correct. So, we're just approving the overhead structure, the cover for the patio to be in the easement also is what we're looking at. Where's our guy? So, you're not changing the footprints of the current patio at all? No, not at all. Okay. So, and and so basically building on top of it. Now, they're just putting a cover over a portion of it. Was that revealed when they originally built that? It was 20 years ago. And I don't know cuz the drain cheese was probably there longer before that. It's been there when the golf course was built. So, okay. I don't know if it was I couldn't tell you. They want to see these color ones. They're much better. I seen an email.

Hint. I saw them in the email, too. That's why I was like looking for them out. I thought we would have Yeah, I didn't print mine out either. But 20 years, no problem. So busy. I didn't have time to I saw the email come across. I didn't have time to like Okay. So, a 100redyear flood plane means that you have a chance of it flooding once every hundred years. Correct. And this e drainage easement is tied into that flood plane. Part of it. Yes. The flood the drainage easement exceeds the flood plane a little bit. Yeah.

Um but I mean it's a hundred-year flood. There's not going to be, it's not like a room addition where you've got walls that are blocking water and diverting it. It's a patio with a cover so water will still be able to flow. But see, when in the flood for so in in a flood plane itself, you can't put things like patios and this and that because it then prohibits the displacement of water. This isn't in the flood.

But this is not in the flood plane. Correct. But I would guess we don't know. I would assume this easement is intended to serve that should that hundred-year incident occur and none of us sitting here can today can't say it won't happen that it's intended to ease that water and I would I guess maybe it sends it part tries to get it going through the covert and away from the property correct so uh so the water flows north the water is flowing north okay north it's flowing a white fro. Yeah. So, it's going to flow. It's going to flow from the street through the yard into the golf course.

Okay. But that area is not in the 100redyear flood plane. The street. No, the street is not. So, what I'm This is This is right next to the 100redyear flood plane. It is, but it's way above it. It's way above it. So, yeah, there's about a 30 foot. Yeah, it's it's a big drop. So you're saying that if that incident occurs, there'll never be enough water to because that's what floods do, right? Follows the contours of the earth and and this is above that. Okay. So that's why they didn't draw the flood plane to include it. Correct. Correct. Okay. And I wouldn't say never flood

ever. I I don't want to make that insurance, you know. I I'm saying that it's it's far enough out of the flood plane that I don't think putting a patio cover over it is going to affect drainage. Okay. And to make sure we will look at that when plans are submitted for the structure itself. Okay. And so now for the city of Lawrence again my first drainage thing here and building in it and drainage is important. So, so my question here is like coming from Indianapolis, they do have a special thing that looks at the drainage to see how it's going to interact and all that. Do we have that here in Louis? Yes, ma'am. I can run calculations and all that too.

Okay. So, that but that's but we have to rely on you. Very capable you, but you nonetheless, right? Oh, yes. Okay. So, this we're not approving the plan. We're not approving anything structural. You're approving the conceptual drawing. Okay. That says I still have to look at the drainage, the structure, make sure that it meets building code. We're not doing any of that today. Okay. That's if this is approved, they'll submit plans and then I start looking at all that. So, this building step they can't get to that unless they approve this. Correct. Gotcha.

Yes, ma'am. So, when a permit's issued, I'll have looked at drainage, at the structure to make sure it meets building code. We're looking to make sure that it meets the Indianapolis storm water requirements. We're looking, we're checking all those boxes before we issue a permit. They'll need an ILP. So, they'll have to go through all that.

Any other questions for Renee? Thank you, Renee. Thank you. Petitioner, you have anything else to add? I do not. Okay. The board then will be voting on 26 LSV16906 rule Oakland Way uh various of development standards to construct a porch within an easement per 743-3-6A4D table and 744-204-1. I keep losing those little pieces of paper. Make sure I didn't take yours. Let me see. I don't have one. This V1. Let me see. What is this? Yeah. Uhhuh. Next one. Open it. That's

Did you take I'm sure I didn't take I picked up Let me Wait a minute. No, wait a minute. Oh, no. I did take Everybody making me think I'm crazy. I don't have this. I didn't get anything. Yeah, the other one's an oldie. It's a 2512. cuz it was from last year. We never finished it. There you go.

If we could just have the board has unanimously granted your petition.

And we didn't have anything like all summer. The board now will hear 26 LSBO210160 East 56th Street, AK Pilum Pike. Uh request of variance of development standard of the city of Indianapolis consolidating zoning and subdivision ordinance table 742-107-3. uh dimensional standards to allow a front yard setback of 23, 60 is required, sideyard setback of 10, 30 is required, and rear yard setback of 20, and 30 is required. This is the one. Good evening.

Thank you. Good evening. My name is Brian House. I'm a partner with the law firm of Pritsky and Davis in Greenfield, Indiana. And I'm here tonight to represent the petitioner 56 Street Commons LLC. One second. There is a typing error. Cover that. Oh, okay. I I I saw that the front yard setback is going to be 15 ft where 60 is required, not 23. It's 15. It's 15. 15 ft. Oh, number one on number one. Front yard setback. 15 instead of 23. 15 instead of instead of 23.

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page from the very beginning. Okay. And that was after our discussion with Mayor and Greg earlier today. I just didn't get that changed. I apologize. Okay. Thank you. Um, as I said, I'm here on behalf of 56th Street Comments LLC, the principal of which is Mr. Dan Ventry seated behind me. Um, if you've looked at the staff report, and if you look at this, do we have this? This probably perhaps is one of the more helpful documents. It's changed quite a bit, hasn't it? There's been a lot of changes and I'll touch upon some of that.

Um, first of all, I want to thank staff administration for the collaborative manner in which what was the drawing you just held up? When was it done? No. What was the you said is that go with our staff report? Yes. I don't know what happened with copying. Oh, okay. Okay. Ours hasn't Okay, I got that one. Okay, don't worry. So, no, we have that one. I think I think we have the same one. I color. Okay.

All right. Thank you. So, so let me start at a higher level. um variances for developmental standards are appropriate where the particular nature of the real estate makes development impractical. So the reason I call your attention to this drawing if you look at the 60foot setback which is shown in red nearly a half of the lot is was lost. It would be extremely difficult to develop any property here uh and provide for that setback of 60 ft. In working with staff and the administration, what you see before you has been proposed and it does come with a positive staff report. The narrowest point of the setback is shown or as Renee pointed out, it's the angled line which I would say is at the souththeast corner of the last unit which is denominated 6C.

So again, setbacks are easy to consider when you have rectangular lots, square lots and so on. But here it's difficult to say that any particular axis creates a setback. 15 ft is the narrowest point. But you'll note if you move over to the southwest corner of unit 6C. Uh the setback is probably closer to 40 ft. And I'm judging that off of the dimension of the 15 ft that you see. So, the setbacks requested are as set forth in the staff report. Uh, a front yard setback of 15 ft at its narrowest point, but I emphasize that's not a uniform setback. Uh, and 15 ft's the smallest point. At other points, it's larger. Uh, side yard setbacks 10 feet where the ordinance is 30. But again, given the nature of the parcel, if you impose all of the setbacks, you really can't do anything. And that's the touchstone of a developmental standard variance. Looking at the peculiar nature of the property and allowing for it to be utilized in a higher and best use uh scenario by varying the setbacks. And then lastly, the rear setback uh 20 feet where 30 feet is required. So that's a relatively minor request. In your staff report, you see aerial overheads of the area and we have submitted our findings. We think frankly that this is uh a an improvement or an enhancement to the area. Um you have several zoning classifications. Much of this site is zoned heavy industrial. Heavy industrial is the zoning to the west. And and if you look again at the aerial, it looks like we've

got some truck trailers and trucks. Uh to the northeast, again, there's lots of truck parking and so on. The um renditions of the buildings show again last minute modifications that were made at the request of staff in that the number of overhead doors has been reduced. Basically what this site will be and there are already interested uh tenants if you will or purchasers. Um the larger building will in large measure be a plumbing business for their equipment shop and so on. The others will be of similar uses. This is not necessarily just purely storage. Uh this is interior workspace. Um, firewalls will be between each of the units and in fact the large 1C unit will have a firewall uh dividing the middle of it. Um, I could go on, but really that is the the crux of what is requested here. And if you have questions, I'll try to answer them or if they're more technical in nature, um, I will have Mr. Van speak to it.

Oh boy, I got questions on this one. Uh, so I can start. So I I see the the proposal is to uh quote conduct storage and workspace on the parcel. So what what's going because I know we're I know exactly what you're talking about and there's like buses and and RVs and there there's like a lot of stuff. Yeah. And so the question is is so is all that stuff going inside of it or is this something totally different? Well, on this parcel there's Yeah, there's almost nothing on this parcel. So, none of that stuff is on this property. This is a vacant lot. So, where's all the the mess is all around it?

I I wouldn't I didn't call it a mess, but we know we're not what I'm talking about. So, is that between this parcel and waste management, or is that on the other side? It's it's between it's waste the the stuff there that's been there, you know, they've been there since 1950. Uh all that stuff is between this parcel and waste management. Okay. So if you look at it page of the staff report, will it hide the stuff? What now? Will it will it like distract us from Well, that's one of the things that we discussed with staff. Okay. Uh yeah, I said let's do something that really helps the area. Um

aesthetically it's going to change. It's going to hide a lot of that uh waste management even because the height of the building the building's six 16 foot interior. So that will actually actually act act the building the way it's orientated on the lot will actually hide some of the more heavier use. this property you could have heavy use just like well just just like waste management or the parcel between but we've given up outdoor storage. Okay. So yeah that was I think that was my first question because I was thinking that was this this was the stuff lot. This isn't the stuff it's not the stuff lot you know

again I draw your attention to this in the staff report here is the parcel and the stuff surrounds the parcel. Okay. So we think one of the benefits of this proposal um to the extent you don't understand the stuff this will provide an attractive well that's just one of my questions

and and one of the things I wanted to add earlier to what Brian said is one of the more difficult things too which kind of creates an illusion is this has a variable rightway. Okay, most of the time the rideway comes down to the curb is is with the curb here but you can see the distance. So actually where the 15T is there's a a measurement below that it is uh another 22T to the curb. Mhm. So it the the setbacks are really there but on paper it looks worse than it really is in real life.

Okay. So so my second question is on use. So, um, you know, number one, I'm I'm I was curious the location, but as for usage, cuz I see all the, you know, all the barn doors and then we talk about plumbing. Are these They're They're not barn doors, they're garage doors or garage doors or over overhead doors. Yeah. So, is the intent to rent rent each of these to a different business? Is it going to be owner occupied or what what's I'm gonna oper I'm going to operate owner occupied a couple of the spots and um it's going to actually be conduct so there'll be an association so like industrial business condos

so and so it'll we'll be able to control what goes on on the site so and then I see little these little doors so I assume that's a 36 people people are going to be walking correct and so and so here in lies my setback back issue. Um, so how many businesses could be using this property? Um, six. Six, right? Yeah. So then it would be six businesses with people. Okay. So that sounds like a lot of traffic. Well, potentially foot traffic. Let let me address Let me address that. You see where I'm going?

Yeah, sure. I can address that. Okay. So this is a dead end. The only other the only other people the only people that will be using this will be the people in this building here. Nobody comes past nobody comes past the the Brian spot there between you know he's got traffic going in his place but everything else is going into waste management. This is basically a dead road and I've witnessed that myself. But but are other businesses using this as kind of a turnaround? No. The cold the little culdeac or whatever you want to call the the businesses that we anticipate are not hightra businesses.

Correct. Um by example the largest user of plumbing business that will be inside material storage shop tools trucks truck parked internally. Uh and and really that's it. These are not sites that would be businesses where you are offering the sale of product. Industrial. This will be a lock. So there'll be a gate on the front if you look at the fence. So yeah, unless you're going there to work, it's not going to And so if it was if it was one business with staff going in, but if we have six businesses with staff, now that that's where I'm talking about foot traffic. I know that it's not going to be retail. Where are they going to park? I mean,

I see I see the parking. I I I've got concern about foot traffic with this with this very narrow setback. Oh, I think foot traffic would be almost non-existent. Yeah, there's no foot traffic there now. Well, we have people working. You know, you have Where are they going to foot traffic from, too? Well, we don't want across Pton Pike. I mean, across 56th Street.

No, it would be it would be it would be here. The street, the parking lot. We've got waste management. We've got the other L-shaped lot with the stuff. Um, I've got I've I've got setback concerns when it comes to safety though because we have we do have people. I mean, it's not going to be like ghosts, you know, it's going to be real humans that are going to be walking. So, I I want to understand your question so I can address it. Would you elaborate? How many people will be using this if given full capacity if you're running? You mean behind behind the fence is what you're talking about? I'm I'm asking so I'm asking is a question of usage. Okay.

And so the question is how many people at when you're at full capacity how many people will be in this building? We wouldn't anticipate with most of these we wouldn't four or five people. Four or five people per no per to for the whole thing. But you said the plumbing company, how many trucks are going to be parked in the in that? It's a lot crammed right in there. I think he's got three trucks and it'll be parked inside. It's a 7200 foot spot. Okay.

Most of it's going to be plumbing materials and park his trucks inside because, you know, even on 59th Street, my family has a business. Do you know many times our Cadillac converters have been stolen? We have to park everything inside. So that's one reason, you know, we gave up outside storage. We don't want any outside storage on this parcel. Everything valuable will be inside the buildings. Yeah.

And that's really what this what the space what what the space is designed for. So two uh 2C and 3C will have one user. I mean this just because they're divided up this way, somebody might take two or three of them. So, is it a So, is it a business condo or is it an industrial storage? Um, yeah, I I would say it is a business condo. So, back to the plumbing allows trucks to be in. He's going to This is There'll be a firewall run down the middle. This will be That's why there's two only two doors instead of four. And the user that we have right now is a local here local company. Okay.

And guess and they're located in the feed store. Well, the the median has created a lot of issues for people in their businesses on Pendleton Pike. I mean, every day I have to do a U-turn. Okay. Uh he has to he's he's in there where the feed store is back there. He has to go down and make a U-turn to just come from Indian Lake where I he lives too and to get into his business. One of the things that's nice about this access, you've got two lights to get in and out of this. You don't have to take a U-turn. It's on a dead end street. It's very exciting. When you say condos, are these going to be purchased?

Some of them will be purchased and some of them will be rented. And how can you control?

How can you control the ones that are being purchased? Well, because any purchaser is under it's it's just like the what we call CCRs uh commitments, covenants, and restrictions of record. You probably many of you live in a subdivision that has CCRs. You have a homeowners association. That is a document that you must adhere to in purchasing or even renting one of these spaces. It's a recorded document. it can be enforced by the member manager, the association and so on. So that's how this is controlled. And this is a development concept that Mr. Van and I have done before elsewhere.

We're doing one in Greenfield currently. Whereabouts, excuse me, whereabouts in Greenfield off nine. Okay. Behind the big lots. Former big lots. Former big lots. Does that answer your question? I can elaborate on that a little bit. So this gives a lot more it actually gives more control. It gives another layer of control between um if something bad is going on and the city has to enforce it. Um it really is a um a good mechanism um to control what goes on to have the standard that we're looking for.

Yeah. I mean I would elaborate elaborate a little bit more on the business condo. You seem like there's similarities to these residential condos. It's just for business type. Yeah. Nobody will be living in them. They'll it's it's just it's just you own the space. Business owns them and they can put Yeah. They run their business there and they own it. They can depreciate it. Um there's 1031 tax advantages to owning it. Um things are so expensive right now. Um it gives you another option. People are are looking for this is very much in demand. This is one a really hot commodity across the country right now. Sure. It's really Yeah, it makes sense. It's really been going on for the last seven or eight years.

But if it's industrial storage, you the the ingress egress from the from the parcel is going to be considerably less. But if we are business condos now, we've got people there every day, you know, taking lunch. Not necessarily every day. Um let me give you an example. The plumbing use, they're interested. They want it. they want to buy it and in part it gives them the space they need for storage of trucks, storage materials and fabrication because with plumbing, you know, you put together certain aspects and then taking them to the job site.

These sites are perfect for a cabinet maker, um someone who has need for what I'll call product storage but limited deliveries, um that sort of thing. So, we don't foresee heavy traffic at all, pedestrian or vehicular. And this is a really a downsize as far as what could be allowed on the property tremendously. In what way? Out outside storage. You could be a junkyard. I know. to to go to the extreme

and I and I think that's I think that's the best part of the proposal is is I think that it it it increases property value. Yeah. And we want listen we want you know uh when I met with staff when I met with Greg you know I said I want something that you guys are proud of happy you know because I'm going to be doing more of these developments. Okay. And I want, you know, this is 10 minutes from my house. This will be in my model. I mean, this is going to be nice. It's going to greatly improve the area and and and really help a lot of businesses here in Lawrence because there's nowhere for them to go, right? But we don't want somebody to get hit by a truck. Well, neither do we.

So, that wouldn't make us proud. And so, that's that those are my questions on, right? But I mean, because I mean, if you look at the setback, I mean, it would it would certainly trim at least one, if not two. Well, it does worse than that because by the time you add in the setbacks on the side, you lose 49%. Well, I'm not worried about the ones on the side. I'm worried about the ones near the road. Well, with the parking lot, there's not going to be a garage door in in U C6. If you look at the commitments, yeah, let me see. There's not going to be a garage door in C2 or um 6C. Why is that? Oh, I see. So this with the X's. Yes. That's not it because we work that out with stuff.

This is it. Faith. This one. I've got both of them. But there's one with the garage doors that have the X's and that was the product of discussion between staff and the official. So those are doors you're going to get rid of. Yes, ma'am. The X is what they're getting rid of. Yeah. Okay. Well, that makes a difference. That makes a difference as far as usage goes. Cuz right now, that's what I'm saying. I'm laser focusing on use. I understand. So, you're doing away with four doors. Uh, yes. And that leaves you then with seven units or no, that's six. It's It's still the same amount of units except there won't be a garage door. This is five.

Okay. So, same amount of units except there's no garage door. So, how do the ones without the garage door, are those going to be combined into the ones that do have a garage door? More than likely. And it has a service door. Okay. that you can just walk in, right? Okay. Now, have you read the 10 uh commitments here that staff has put? Yeah, absolutely. We work we work diligently on those commitments and we agree to all of them and you agree to all of them. Okay. Where's the commun like we need the laser pointers? So good. Oh, there they go. Okay.

Yeah. Um, so I don't like double-sided either. So, yeah, it's really confusing. Yeah. So, for these businesses, I guess, will there be some like existing businesses where this would allow them to kind of expand? Well, it's going to allow so I don't want to say who the person is, but I have, you know, he's been around. He grew up on Indian Lake. I've known him since he was seven years old, probably. He's got a thriving business here in Lawrence. Mhm. And yes, this is going to allow him to grow. And he can't put his he has to drive his truck home,

one of his trucks home every day from uh because he don't want to leave it outside. You know, it's a $150,000 truck, you know, and I'm I mean, I'm not making it up. And you know, we've been hit at my family's business two times and they my brother finally said, "We're just parking everything uh everything inside." Oh, yeah. Those Cadillac rotors, they're popular, man. They getting everybody for those things. So, I understand the value of that. And I often wonder cuz people do park their vehicles in in their homes, in the yard. So, I mean, like having a nice place where you can put stuff. My brother also, you know, my mom has a one of their pickup trucks, you know, with a lift gate on it parked in her in her uh driveway.

I guess first I'd rather not see that, but I understand why they have to. They have nowhere else to It's not a big commercial truck. It's just a pickup, you know, but it's because there's not room to keep it at the at the uh business. So, you're saying that maybe these one through six, we know one's going to be the plumbing and then the others could possibly Brian misspoke on the plumbing on the plumbing company. The plumbing company's going to be in 2C and 3C. I had a drawing. Okay, that that's what I was getting at. I what I was going to ask is this would be like a two of those could be one company. It's not going to be one and probably one C more than likely I have somebody interested. There has to be a firewall

that runs a masonary block firewall that has to run down the center of this building. Okay. And that's why, you know, we I said we agreed to two doors, two garage doors. We had four in there. It was probably overkill. Um and uh after discussion with staff, uh we said we cut it down to two doors. Now, is there water, electricity running through this? All the all So, actually the city used to own this slot. Okay. All the utilities are there. Storm water, sewer, electric, you know, everything's there. I guess my concern would be someone purchasing it to live in there if it's got water and electricity in our commitment.

Excellent point. It is. May I? That's one of the reasons why a good set of CCRs and its association with management on the part of the project promoter is important. It it would be prohibited and if there was any indication that that was occurring. uh a number of entities. The developer can take action, the association can take action, even the town, excuse me, the city of Lawrence to take action to enforce that. But the bottom line is that would be an evictable offense.

So, another first for me, business condos. Tonight's a I said another first for me, business condos. It's been a bunch of new things like this tonight. Um, so you're going to have um this road that runs along in front with the variable rightway. Yes, ma'am. And it looks like it it it's similar to an access. I'm trying to envision this. Yeah. You know, it's like a furnish road. Yeah. Would you How would you describe it? I had to go out there personally to understand this myself. I spent with the coyotes and the deer. The plastic coyotes and the deer. That area, right? That's the frenage road. I can help with that. Yeah,

there were coyotes because they come ac Yeah. No, they have plastic fake coyotes. So, back when Pum Pike was expanded and 56th Street was put in and the bridge was Yeah. built, that frontage road was created to give access to waste management and um the welding guy. What's the name of the welder? East Side Welding. East Side Welding. Sorry, I was having a blank. Um, East Side Welding because that frontage road was there when they built 56th Street. Mhm.

That was the old 56th Street. And that's why it's variable. We put the roundabout in. And this parcel that Dan has purchased was where all the equipment and everything for building the 56th Street Bridge. It's where I end used it to redo Pendleton Pike. over the years we just let them use it recently to to do the work there.

Yeah. The medians and stuff and now it's time to develop it. So it's it's been a city property for a number of years that was created when we built 56th Street the bridge and connected it to Pon Pike. So Eastside Welding that's why it's a a dead end the way it is. You used to have to access it from Pilton Pike before 56th Street was built. So,

so, um, so this, so when you're talking about putting making it look better, um, you're talking about put, did you say something about putting a fence on the front on the frontage part? Yeah, we're going to go with a rod iron fence. Oh, that's nice. How tall will that be? It'll be six foot with a gate with a gate with a rod iron gate. Taller than six foot. They have to come back to us. And another one of the commitments on the south facade of the land. I was going to go to that. Um I'll let you do it. If we are you done with questions for them or um I can answer.

Well, I was going to Yeah, I was going to ask them about their CCR. So, are you going to have in the CCR and within the lease that there's to be no outside storage? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I highlighted that one, too. I feel like that needs to be strictly enforced. I Well, we don't want outside storage because that diminishes the appearance. And I I really think that that is that is like the biggest um motivating factor on the variance too is the no outside storage. We're in 100% agree. Yeah, I think that's great. I think that that almost can weigh on each. Well, in addition to that, um, staff also required him to double his landscaping. I I saw that actually. I saw that.

The uh commitment number two shade trees for every 30 foot front edge. Yeah. So, commitment number 6B, the ordinance only requires one shade tree for every 30 feet. We're we're asking for two. Um, he could technically put any kind of fence he wants up. and we asked for rod iron um so that it's appealing visually. Originally, if you look at the uh layout of the building, it had kickouts. You can kind of see on the elevation drawings. We asked to make it all straight

straight. We didn't want one building being a little shorter and then bumping out and then bumping out again, you know, make it a flat facade. Um, we asked for and he agreed instead of it all being poleb barn on the side that's facing the street, let's make it two materials. So, a stone face with your pole barn. Nice. Um, add windows on that south facing. Whether they're fake, whether they're real windows or fake windows, I don't really care as long as it gives the appearance of windows, right? It looks more office than storage. And I mean, we asked that he remove several garage doors and he was, you know, amicable to that. So,

thank you for pointing that out, too, because that makes a difference. It does. I thought it made a big difference and that's why we changed. I know you all received the original report that said we recommended the dial. Um, after sitting with Dan and and going through and yeah, working some of these things out. That's why we changed our mind because it's making it look more presentable. He's putting in a barrier. We um requested and he agreed to the no outdoor storage. I think that's very important on this industrial lot. If you look at what's happening at Waste Management and East Side Welding and at the car lot that's next door.

Um as they've explained, that circle is a dead end to their property. The car lot that's to the east of this development has a fence up where you see that drive. So there's no gate or anything. It's a solid fence. So this will be the last business on that culdeac of 56 street to access. So there's not going to be people beyond his property going to the car lot, which we're so excited about. So we don't have to deal with the traffic. Yeah. I mean, it is it is a very unique parcel. It is it's a very unique location.

And I also want to point out that on the corner of 6C, if you're looking at this picture, that that variable uh easement, it's 15 ft from the corner to the property line, but you've got another 22 feet before you get to the back of the curb. So, we're actually at 37 feet there. Yeah. which is quite a big difference from 15 for your pedestrian if anybody were walking through there. I mean, I got to say when I when I see the setback request, I'm not crazy about it, but then when we walk through it, which I appreciate everyone walking us through it, uh, and and I really the detail and the commitments is much appreciated. Also, you're welcome. That that's that took a lot of work today and and getting those all

I mean, it looks like a lot of work and it looks like a lot of planning. I' I've planned this since March. Yeah. No, I can I didn't just throw it together. I complicated on the design. The reason why we had the setback, the building was shorter on the on the farthest south building was to accommodate a little more of the setback. A little more of the setback. And you know, so then we we had when we had our meeting, there was some give and take and we you know, it's uh everybody came to a consensus that this would be the best way to do it. And one more thing I wanted to point out, he would be allowed to have a 100 square foot sign and he's agreed to reduce that down to 40 square feet and a monument sign because we don't need a I don't need it's not retail. It's not like you know all we need is an address. So where's the sign going?

Where's the billboard going? Is it a billboard? I'm holding my breath. Be here another hour. I was like, "Okay, I'm done. We're getting out of here." But not now. I'm sorry. I'm like it's zoning joke but not but we're not. Funny zoning joke. So the maximum size of the sign would be allowed 100 square feet. We're allowing 40 square feet. So significantly reduce the signage that's allowed. It's not on the site plan. We'll have to provide that whenever he does his devel. But so where would it be placed though? Because looking at their their site plan, there's not a whole lot. They'll have to figure out where to fit it in.

Be right about right here. Yeah. In the larger part of the on the south. Yeah. On the south side there. That's the only place it would make sense. I agree. The one thing too I'll say about traffic and I don't want to beat the issue to death and I don't mean to be facitious. I said, "Look, Dan, I got to see this live because I'm not getting it." Okay. Yeah. And if you don't have somebody telling you how to get there, you're not going to get there. You You just can't figure out. Got to turn on Mid Hopper. Yeah. Take a ride. I put my GPS. I'm like, where the heck where am I at? So, I truly believe this is the really the best use of this parcel um that will benefit. It's creative. It's creative.

Yeah. Thank you. Um and and honestly, uh if you didn't walk me through it, I don't think I would have understood. Well, that's why that's why quite honest because I'm saw when I saw the first staff report with the denial I was like oh my gosh I got to get face to face and that's we staff accommodated me I met with Renee then I met with Greg and um between all this we this came up with I can tell I think for me eliminating those two doors makes a big deal it's a big deal you know for the traffic do you have any more questions for us

I have a question for Renee so just going back to the sign if so if it's the 100 ft that they would be allowed is that based upon the size of the building or the size of the lot the square footage square footage of the building and so that 100 foot is based upon yes this plan right here okay and you promised me it's not going to be a billboard right yeah it's not going to be a billboard can we add that to the commitments that we don't it is it is in the commitments that literally is even if it's not um Number nine, only one monument sign. Okay. Massive size of 40 ft per minute

because Pendleton Pike is too congested with billboards. I was talking earlier about like the the the electronic signs. We have had so many people try to put these billboards in on Pendleton Pike and it is so congested with billboards because it's like you have to have 100 feet between the billboards and they want to put also what about we speak one. Any other questions for the petitioner or for Renee? We still need to call administrators. Correct. Are there any remmonstrators for or against the petition? I have a question. I'm not against the petition. Were you Were you sworn in earlier? No. It just came up.

It's okay. Do you swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Thank you. Hi, my name is Betty Robinson. and I live at 8055 of Boxdale White. Um, and I'm on the city of Lawrence Common Council. I have a question for the board. I was listening to all of the descriptions that was given. I got a good vision, but I just don't have a vision of the existing business with all the stuff, how they're going to ingress and degress from their property. Do you see that on your map? Because I don't have a visual. Yeah, it's an L shape that kind of wraps around it.

Look, I don't know. This is a side welding. We all know, right? This is waste management. They have a driveway. So, East Side Welding will get here. You can see this is that new car lot. They have a driveway here, but there's a fence here. They can't access and this is the existing This is East Side Welding, not new business. This is the place where we're going. Okay. But they can and they'll still be able to get in and out of their property regardless of what we do. Yeah. It's not going to block that at all. Okay. And you can see that here. See, this is East Side Welding's driveway.

I can't love. Thank you, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Anything else, Miss Robinson? Anything else? No. Okay. Thank you. You where the Aldi's is? Anybody else? Counselor? Right across the street from the Aldi. Okay. Board have any more questions or concerns? Why do they have to use that? Are we ready to vote there from Pendleton?

The board will be voting on 26 LSV210160 East 56 Street. uh request a variance of development standards of the city of Indianapolis consolidating zoning and subdivision ordinance table 742-107-3 dimensional standards to allow front yard setback of 15 ft. Oh, here it is. Uh 60 is required. A side set back of 10 ft. 30 is required and rear set back of 20 ft. 30 is required. But with the addition with the 10 commitmentsclud that is in the staff including we're voting on the commitments right? Yes with the commitments and everything.

We I didn't move for them but I think those are included already. Okay. Got it. The board has unanimously granted your petition. Okay. Thank you guys. I want to say to Renee and staff how it's very appreciative that you have met with the uh well leadership to meet and tried to work this all out. Also very good. Thank you. Best of luck guys. Yeah. Looking forward to seeing that. Glad to hear that. Not seeing I think we're coming together here. It's a sore spot. Renee, this this whole section the Lawrence Board of Zoning Appeals is adjourned at this time plan that we're doing.

Thank you. Thank you. And it covers that area there, right? Yes, ma'am. Great, sir.