Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

e e for YouTube Hello um I'd like to announce a meeting this evening this Thursday March the 13th at 6 pm at the town hall and then the first um order of business is to approve the minutes dated January January the 2 I have a motion for I have one um typo correction I think to make on page seven uh First full paragraph Mr coats asked Mr small Kevin we could just reverse that Mr we didn't to make any height comments about our planning direct page seven First full paragraph everybody see it yes which one

it is it says here um ask Mr small Kevin so it should be Kevin big care I looked at that three times so is there anybody else having anything else no so with with that uh correction I I move that the minutes be minutes be approved as amended second all those in favor I I I and I will abstain I was not here right oh dear ready to do nominations I Elizabeth Thompson Town Council for the town of belir I call for nominations of the chair of the Belair Planning Commission nominate Lois kisser Kelly any other any other n nominations move nominations be closed in favor I I I thank you very all for that's very nice of you chair Lois Kelly okay and I nominate Peter schair for vice chair please second all those in favor I I I guess roots for punishment okay the first order business is the new business approval of the Planning Commission 2024 annual report all right um the obviously for U Jimmy's edification the uh Planning Commission issues a report every year uh reviewing its uh previous year uh activities uh projects that have been approved projects that have been denied uh any legislation that would affect the um U planning commission's

ability to to proceed with their duties um and then kind of a summary of some of the projects that uh and improvements that have happened in the town um I have let's see starting on page and let me know if there's any corrections that you see up to the um commission and board summary um there was a correction that was provided by Mr Hines um which I gave you revised pages in front of you um I apologize to Mr Hines for amending him um and that uh it shows that Keith P um shows uh Keith pal is being resigned we probably change that to uh term ending or something like that because he technically didn't resign um so how about we use the term retired retired that sounds good um any uh changes to the any more changes to that page some of the Capital Improvements that we have Homestead park has is been rehabbed and is still in the process of getting uh a playground that'll happen here in the next couple months um I noticed they mentioned pickle ball courts is that two pickle ball courts are down there very active oh good yeah good yeah well used um good we actually put rules on there because I think we had some people that were disputing each other uh the um also some of the other things we did storm water management and added offsite off street parking which was a big deal for planning is that we wanted to make sure

people were not getting out of their cars opening up their doors in mcfa traffic which is not exactly slow so um Plum Tree Park is also going through re Rehabilitation um they uh in fact what will be happening in the next few days is a new 12in thick layer of uh ewf which is stands for engineered wood fiber that will be put on the um the park uh playground and um then some the the parking lot will be paved and no longer be um uh gravel that actually ends the of all the parks in town that was the last one to not be handicapped accessible now it will be so we're we're happy with that burns alley improvements question okay yes how are you going to secure the ad equip that's going to be my question oh really okay um it doesn't well we have several aeds that are going in in U town properties I'm not sure I can answer that because that's kind of a a is two o' in the morning right I'm not sure you can to be honest but I it's kind it's bit of a pet project uh of to have something same yeah I it's I would call it something like the little free libraries that are out there little free libraries have been vandalized at in that Park several times yes it has and um one of the things I would like to do is move that little Free Library out to the road um and same with the a they should be out next to the road so they're more visible they're people can't be kind of hiding in the shadows of the park one of the things that we've been doing with all the parks in town is

removing any shrubs and only retaining trees because that opens up the park to visibility from the road and from adjacent Property Owners the um the only thought on moving the little Library out to the road which otherwise makes perfect sense with the new narrowed Street eat mhm people will park there to do their Library Little Library thing and then there wouldn't be enough room for two cars to get by which is going to be a this is going to be an interesting um it could be I know that the um but that would just add to that right I'm hoping they don't right now we had looked at the Thomas Street and really hardly anybody would park on Thomas um no but they will if you put the library out well that's true I guess that's why I'm just questioning that um the alternative would be to just keep it where it's at and just repair it whenever it's or put it somewhere and I guess there's a certain value to have it there at the park where there's children and so on but that would be a potential downside because people would just stop there and most of those little free libraries are next to playgrounds there's a few that are downtown so not sure what the alternative is Kevin the ad need an active electrical source yes yeah so I guess that might actually determine where it goes in the park you know yes yeah and that's something we're kind of leaving up to um Public Works to locate those in an appropriate location um they should be visible so people know they're there oh they're in a great big huge yellow box yeah so they're definitely not so far it's still there I'm sorry so far it's still there PL Tree Park a park I take my grandkids to all that's good did you have you I thought I thought a Town Administrator

Mr Hopkins said that there's some kind of an because of the electricity there's some kind of an alarm or something on those aeds that once they're opened we get a notification I would assume so I but if you'd like to know we'll find we'll have Eddie get you some there was something like that he was talking talk about these a while back I'm sure they're not cheap so no yeah like to keep them around for for the purposes at least a year or two right I tell I was more concerned that somebody would take it and be mischievous with it hurt somebody or um well I tell you what I will follow up with u Public Works and with uh Our Town Administrator and send you back an email let you know how that's working anything else on this page um Burns alley's on there the the the improvements to Burns alley are being reduced back to be more aesthetic and that a layout will be shown to the town board um as part of the budget process so when it says it uh hasn't been able to be continued because of the cost of the project yeah the cost was difficult to for folks to come to terms with um maybe when we get this tax revenue from Hickory Flats can do more never know uh under land use um we obviously are under comprehensive planning we're we're dealing with um the uh processes that were associated with the comprehensive plan and the comprehensive resoning um You probably won't see this next year in the in the annual report it's kind of cleaning up from 2024

um yeah so Kevin there's a typo on page six page six at the top it says the last poll sentence are provided in the following Pages along with Belair Board of town commission think it's supposed to be Commissioners planning related activity Commissioners Commissioners Commissioners yes thank you and Kevin since this is an annual report of the Planning Commission under that comprehensive planning um it the way I read it now it's almost like the the uh uh petition came about because of the result of the planning commission's decisions I mean that's the way I read it and and uh I I think I've written down here the town board adopted all but one of the planning commission's recommendations with that one application resulting in uh a petition for referendum which was subsequently de declared invalid that was on the town Board of Commissioners that's why this whole thing started and if you recall also uh I don't know how many applications there were but we we reviewed each one considered each one independently separately yeah and when the town board voted to approve these they had one vote for all of them and it was that one property on uh that the clients wanted reson that uh we said no to that started this whole Revolution right if you will you are correct so I don't know how we

write it I I've got something written down down here see if it if you okay with it the town board adopted all but one of the Planning Commission recommendations for resoning on May 2nd 2022 if you want I can put in the the address of the one that was not recommended but no I don't yeah comma you think that's important whatever number Bradway that's exactly how I remember all right but you know I've uh over the last year or so spoken to a number of people occasionally about this and everybody kind of looks at that one particular property as not being reowned I mean as as uh being resed and not you know maintained as the culprit in this whole thing right so I think I agree I agree I I'll revise that to include the address too okay what did that cost the town final interne fees and cost cost incurred to the town was approximately 82,000 that was from the beginning when they filed the lawsuit all the way up to the Supreme Court okay y thank you y I will make those changes um under development reg regulations uh several ordinances were passed uh one regarding open space and Recreation and how that relates to F andl so and that for the most part followed your recommendations if I recall um so it uh basically is limiting um prop uh developers ability to pay fee and L uh depending on what their zoning is so that was done uh then um let's see there were a couple of ordinances

that were started in 2024 and what I'll do is and when we start to look at 2025 I'll show what happened to those ordinances because those were the those died and then the new ones were introduced and subsequently approved um let's see regarding the Homestead Wakefield the town did purchase a property that will eventually become a uh emergency access for the campus and from the campus and that was approved and uh Liz that I don't think that has been recorded but it's within weeks of being recorded this is hestad should gone over today or tomorrow yeah now can they open the school is it anything like that they have to have an approval uh that that is actually completed before they can start using the school itself no that it would the school would open and right now they have a connection to the parking lot shown and then this this connection will happen eventually once they have money to to build it so there is a connection to the parking lot of um the McFall Activity Center um but the um that connection I think we're looking at it the town looking that as as being temporary so if if some if it needed to be used there is a way there is a way for people to access out to Atwood Road they just have to go through a parking lot which is not exactly safe or easy to maneuver but temporarily that's a satisfactory solution and there's no set

time that that has to be completed there's no set time and then who whose responsibility is to complete that road that ours or the school the count County the county has to agree to it and this and the um board of education has to uh according to the agreement is to fund that so that could just sit in limbo forever it could yeah um that's very disappointing because that was part of the um approval agreement it is uh but we do have the mechanism to do so if we wanted to fund it but it is a sizable amount um for the development activity uh you can kind of see some of the um results of of various uh developments one is uh subdividing five Lots behind the belir United Methodist Church um site plan for Chick-fil-A which is basically done now they doubled up their drive-thru um Dev VA looked at making their outdoor dining permanent and they I think they even came in and the the consultant was not prepared and I think you sent him back and he never came back um standard on bond has been approved uh and is under construction right now3 the yeah I think think it was 2023 it was previous yeah um the um this uh couple of small projects uh an accessory dwelling unit on uh Hall Street was came in he again

presented to you you guys said we need more information he then said I'll come back and he never came back um I've driven by there few times I haven't seen any evidence of occupation but uh anyway uh another one was submitted and withdrawn um at 314 East Broadway uh for accessory dwelling unit and then standard on bond uh also submitted a revision to try to add more commercial space and they then withdrew it um and then Board of Appeals relatively light Kevin on these projects when was the uh the one on togate road where the fellow was going to build a storage facility the annexation yes yes what's going on there that annexation was approved I know it was uh and the um and we've had various folks come in uh to talk about what they can do there but no one's ever followed up with a project well I thought we annexed that because he was going to put something on there he came in and so if he withdrew then why don't we withdraw the annexation I don't well you one of the things that in the state of Maryland well you can put conditions on an on an annexation so one of the conditions was it couldn't be residential and uh but he can build any other kind of commercial use that he wants to uh based on those conditions of annexation so it's annexed into the town and I would assume that at some point it will get have something constructed on it that would not be residential and that's where he's

sitting right now he's in the town right yeah we can't un Annex him well no but I we annexed it be because he said he was going to put a storage facility there and blah blah blah and yeah okay so they don't have to their timeline is on on them not on us and that's the only satellite property in town now right one that doesn't have an Annex uh is not contiguous with the town because it's bifurcated by the togate road we had gone down the road to um Annex the actual road but we haven't been successful because that Road's owned by the county and they have not yet cooperated with that all right uh the other projects for the board of appeals are variances for Building height uh deck uh construction and um that's it there wasn't too many in front of the board of appeals historic preservation commission had several projects a lot of them along Broadway also along um uh Street and Webster Street can I ask you the um the kids who did the drawings or whatever the submissions how did they turn out what buildings did they um second and third um I can't remember because that goes back to last May okay but I I don't recall who ended up winning so it was uh but I they're coming back this may so and we go through the same process we always are trying to get Belair Elementary School to participate but they haven't done so yet we do have St Margaret's Harford day school and Homestead Wakefield um it is nice though that we

we have done more uh activities uh to bolster our certified local government status that is a status that allows us to get um to get grants for training grants for preservation uh grants for research under the for for historic preservation did you um did you go The Pedestrian plan remember when everyone met and and talked about those um are they going to continue to do more I think about the one at the courthouse it's not hardly at all marked and some people stop many don't do you know what I'm talking about right down from the light the old post office um no on Bon Street mhm where they want to cross over from like Tom from the Vagabond Street yeah Thomas Street it's Thomas and and bond it's not even at Thomas it's up a little bit is it near alisan which it's up by um the guy that had the insurance insurance was in that building about Thomas and bond if you make the right turn and the left up office oh oh oh okay courland courland I'm sorry not office yeah there are several designated properties on there I do know one thing that we are going through the process of doing and this will happen in about a week working with a eagle scout to put plaques on all the historically designated properties that don't have them so uh we we're hoping to get most of those in and attached so everybody will know when they walk through the

door of that build of whatever structure most of a residential that they will be um um that they are historically designated when someone buys a place with such designation and no marker or how do they know that they're buying they don't because we have one we've worked on that we have we have one changing hands right now oh god really on uh Gordon Street uh it may be one that is going is targeted to have a plaque I think I'm told people are moving in the end of the month it's a little too late which house is that Phil Bernie gimms house uh Gordon and Richardson Street oh right there oh I know the little right on the corner I'm pretty sure designation it wasn't just on the inventory I think right is that Virginia sour I don't know who I know we have a we sent out letters about a month and a half ago to all the people who had historically desant properties but did not have plaques and we wanted to make sure they that their plaque wasn't sitting in their you know desk drawer somewhere I didn't get so um we uh huh I said I didn't get a letter or anything well because you are about you have a plaque oh I do I think so yeah and your name's not even on it there longer than anybody okay so what that so we did that and we got some responses and some people who are well I think gble was one of them who said yes I want you to put the plaque on and I give you permission and I think they live somewhere else though you have to okay so we another letter went out today saying the 22nd of March is the day that the Boy Scout will be out there

I'm hoping that people are going to be there to allow him to to mount all this stuff I'm sure they're going to be people that that won't be but we're going to try to get make as big a dent as we possibly can say for his Eco Scout project Eco Scout now going back to this pedestrian Crossing it's really it's it's hardly even visible and people are honestly I've I've seen people one car St here but the other lane won't and it's really you have three lanes three I mean it's not like it's not like the one up there by the courthouse at office Street you're talking about at Courtland and Thomas where Bond goes through right where that Crossing there was a woman killed there a few years ago we one lane stopped for and the other didn't and she was pedestrian yeah we reached out to the State Highway Administration and that's one of the areas that's in our Safe Streets for all study we had talked to State Highway many years years ago about putting an island in the Middle Lane but the problem was that the trucks garbage trucks emergency vehicles and everything couldn't make that turn so we were we're still kind of studying other ways to to um make that safer but you're exactly right that Crossing is and there's a lot of crossings that we kind of complained about State Highway that have been improved like like at Gordon but that one has not been well like just rum strips like to Thomas Street rumble strips tend to get lots of complaints because if you're somebody who lives nearby you don't want to hear the rumble strips for the most part it's all commercial eror yeah Ian doesn't have to be that one is compounded by the fact if you're a pedestrian making that cross if you come up from the Vagabond um no I'm sorry if you're

coming maybe the other way the the cars will stop at the that stop sign if they're coming from the vagon they'll look to the left because that's where the traffic is coming from and not necessarily Into The Pedestrian walk that's right there right that's the problem almost be better just to do away with it or yeah I think it either should be it's kind of halfway in between it's it's should either be at Thomas or should or be at um courland but uh we've talked to State Highway about it several times they're just it's not high on their priority list else has to die first yeah I wish we I hate to say this I wish we'd have jumped on it right after that woman was killed because I think we would have gotten a little bit more attention um but you've got the other one right there at um office and bond but people don't tend to walk that block to get across there that's well they have a stop light there you get the light that one that's the one I try to use that's one of the reasons the state highway tells us that that Crossing is okay because the stoplight at office tends to stop all the cars and so there's a gap that allows stop the ones coming up Thomas Street and looking to the left and turning right right yeah who are turning into that that's that's the that's the worst of it right right there no I I completely agree um so that's that's something we can redouble our efforts we just got finished doing the bicycle pedestrian plan and that is one of the locations that we're looking at to talk with state highway just back if we is that it on that particular just back on the um the new homestead school we have acquired the land that that road would potentially be built on that's yes okay so in other words if oh if just in theory if some other school was redeveloped over there then completing

that road could be a condition of it could be we can give it another try of doing that you know well that's right depending on yeah I mean I anticipate the Belair middle will have to be renovated at some point so it gives us another replaced or something I think one of the things that's easier for Board of Ed if they can plan for it and they know it's coming they build it right they can they can build it into their plan um so that's so that's that's when you'll get that road done if if the Planning Commission and the town board elects to say well that's a condition of the new and we talked about that yeah yep uh anything else um Community facilities um there is a Giles deing pathway that was constructed uh the bicycle pedestrian plan was just approved a couple weeks ago or a week ago actually and um so that'll be on the town website for everybody to review and we'll have copies sent out and you everybody on this commission will get a copy um Rockfield Memorial tree Grove is the new tree Grove because Shamrock is full so uh we have actually the first tree was planted a couple of weeks ago so um that will uh it has capacity for about another 20 25 trees to go in that one um water and sewer is basically the same as before uh farmers markets doing well in fact they're expanding they're looking at doing more markets through the winter as and so that'll be that'll help them out a little bit sustainability a lot of this stuff I think you've seen before the 50% rebates for rain barrels the local community

garden um green purchasing a lot of these are still there we're now a under SMC which stands for sustainable Maryland certified we're silver now what what uh how would we be able to move to Gold uh I it's going to be tough for us to do that I think um a lot of different municipalities have to be a little bit larger than us um Rockville uh Gaithersburg Annapolis they have a little bit more resources than we do but we can try I think uh it states in there about the maintaining the V Vitality of the local economy I think um Hickory Flat and standard on bond will really make a big difference it'll make the downtown busier yeah absolutely hopefully fill some of those empty spaces um Economic Development this is kind of a synopsis of what the activity has been going on with um Belair for that can I ask something else um the m p Trail when is that next addition the connection I I just talked to the county a few days ago they're look looking at completing all of the sections about this time next year nice so they a lot of there's quite a bit of delay because they're going through wetlands and you there's certain times of the year that you're restricted to to construction um we actually do have a another boy scout doing their eal project where they're doing going to be putting in medallions along the uh MPA Trail uh to help people direct people to the right location and make them turn the right place mostly when the trail goes onto sidewalks um and I just connected that

um Boy Scout with um the county so that he could do some other locations in the county so what's how are they going to do it around the detention center it's mostly on Boardwalk that's the wet part yeah and the good news is there's all an existing tunnel underneath the bypass that's oh when this all first started you gonna I didn't somebody was Forward Thinking so that was good it is a little scary walking through that tunnel I've done it when I did a walk through with the county oh and what it mentions supporting the local community garden has anything been done with that and where would that go um there's an existing one that was done several years ago go by St Matthews oh they have about 70 or 80 plots and they do a great job I don't I mean they don't need my help at all even though I offer it every year you know but the alliance Club is involved in that we send people over and a lot of young people have helped out with that been good and then food goes to people that need it I think I I think a lot of it does yeah very creative uh I'll go to uh 13 some of the future activities we're looking at um and again this is a lot this is dependent upon approval at the budget stage um alisan Park really is the last opportunity to to put in a exercise cluster or Fitness station and so we're looking to install something similar to that uh in alisan um and then Burns alley I think we talked about that is going to be something this going to be more of a beautification project along Burns alley adding sidewalks landscape

whatnot uhhuh at the bottom it says um the effort will be in partnership with the belir down Alliance I think it's supposed to be downtown downtown Alliance thank you no problem and it says that there'll be senior focused exercise equipment how does that come up yeah I right now the what he's got uh the consultant who we're working with he has it being focused to uh adults and seniors no no it's not focused on kids because there's a playground right there so oh interesting so yeah uh and one of the things that we're talking to uh um upper chesp Medical Center has a an obligation to complete a public amenity that they haven't fulfilled yet and we've been talking to them about um putting in another exercise station there we'd love to see a circuit that people would be able to jog and whatnot uh but um at least we'll be able to keep some of these Fitness stations in places where they're needed I have a question about the the um whenever like attending the town uh board meeting me commissioner meeting and we had the um employee taking pictures and so forth for publicity I would assume but where does that go is anything most of the time it goes on Facebook I think oh see I don't get on Facebook Facebook I don't get on Facebook okay thank you does it does he put them on the website yeah do they I've seen those yes okay um and if you have one of the things is if you have notifications you can go on the town website and you can say I want to be notified for a whole list of different

things oh um and if any of that kind of stuff you can you can click on to to get a little email good um the rest is appendices one as a activity map shows where all the different properties in town have developed don't give up on that I know the short I know the ration app at that barns alley thing down the road at some future time that's there's a good opportunity to do something there I I think that once the the other big land owner there is the county and they need to kind of agree that this is an important project and so not sure they're there yet um also under I would say on the burns alley in budget discussion last year that was the thing that we want to try to get it together so we have a cohesive project between the county and the town so until the county can commit some funds you know that's what we were trying to do is have it done together I know I've talked to at least one mean stre Merchant who had concerns about parking and all that and I get that but correct far as at some point that's just a great opportunity there to develop something there I mean certainly one of the things we tried to do is to find uh areas that need some attention and whatever we can do with those areas to create opportunities and improve the Aesthetics that's what we try to do because the county suggested doing something with the highs the old highs and palm speeds of er Liquors across from the firehouse and that would dub tail into the burns alley something that could potentially be used for uh First Fridays and things of that nature instead of using a parking lot so we're saying okay it sounds like a good idea but you know until we get it on see something on paper and what they're

going to do but we're you know we got to plan it together we're going to do something like that poti that was the concept that could be the anchor whereas the Armory is the other end is the other end correct then you'll have a break I think there's a lot of potential there um in appendix B is the basically all of the goals and objectives that were outlined in the comprehensive plan and where they are in uh the process this is relatively young plan so there's a lot of ones that are kind of yellow colored in yellow which means they've been started but not really completed um so I'll leave that up to you to peruse through I don't know if there anybody find any typos I'm sure there are some I know um I don't know why I did this but the the Planning Commission or the planning department excuse me is involved in 103 of these 183 which means 56% yes so are there any that um you know have disappointed you that you wish well one of the things that was kind of lwh hanging fruit was making adjustments to the development regulations so that they were consistent with the comprehensive plan um if there's anything that certainly I would like to see uh become more significant is traffic and that's like everybody has problems with traffic there's just tons of it uh and um I think a lot of folks look at traffic and the problems associated with it as a result of development that's not necessarily so because the town of Bair is at a hub of of uh um uh all of the roads in Harford or a lot of the roads in Harford County and one

of the things that happens there is development that would be north and west of belir affects our roads and uh if you were to look at the number of um permits we had one single family yeah permit whoa and two um OCC uh use and occupations for single family we're not really adding to those roads um you know that if you were to flatten out the the curve for various projects over town I mean there's not not too many that the town produces it's mostly projects you know such as the the development up in Hickory that produces a lot of cars um so um anyway it we kind of our hands are a little bit tied with that but I would love to see some of the stuff in these Safe Streets for All Pro uh study be reviewed um that is all I have as far as the annual report if there's any other changes you would like to see or clarifications I am Kevin I I'm sorry go ahead I had just one question it's under maintain strong cultural informational government resources for the town residents emphasize the use of the High School auditorium for Town Productions I thought didn't pain to enlarge the yes you did I don't know how much I think it was a million dollars so why is it instead of emphasizing well we are using it but it

it's it several years ago is much more difficult than it is now I think they've kind of because of yeah so sort of school security type situ and we're always kind of second banana to any school activity but um yeah I agree I mean I just I think that's an investment that we need to take more advantage of something I can't put my fingers on but I know I read in here is that the the Planning Commission may or may not be doing a review of the comprehensive plan in 2027 but definitely would do it in 2032 is that you definitely do it in 2032 it's your choice uh as to whether or not you want to do a uh comprehensive plan review there is a requirement that you have to review the comp plan uh review what potential changes there might be and um and then report to the state any uh action that you might take I don't know how many of us will still be here in 2027 but I would encourage that review to be done um it usually is that would be a good opportunity to for some collaboration between the town board and the Planning Commission to start sticking out well here's what you want to have going forward right and in that plan one of the things that um typically happens is you'll incorporate all of the studies that have been performed since 22 into the 27 plan so Safe Streets for all would be incorporated the new um bicycle pedestrian plan would be incorporated there's several others that are out there uh also one of the things that happened in 22 we scheduled it for 22 because we thought the census would be done and complete and it wasn't is that

due to co due to co yeah we we've delayed it a full year at least uh and so that might be an update to the plan that would likely be and that's something I would report back out to you uh at that time to make sure that you're okay with either taking action or not taking action do we get the data I heard on radio this morning various jurisdictions that added or didn't add um population in the last year uh since the census and even the makeup of that is it do we get do we get that from we have access to it yes that'd be interesting to see yes we we know that Baltimore City I think for example added population in 2024 that triggered a whole conversation about who they were the fact is that they did um some of the things that will happen this year uh that are not in this plan but certainly will be is we're going to do a traffic study of Howard Park to try to figure out where people are going because there's cut through traffic in Howard Park and we just don't know and we need an expert to tell us how to correct it so that's that's one of the studies that we have on our list um it's going to change with this when this Thomas Street gets done people are already voiding Thomas Street and that puts them on other streets that's what they're doing yeah so so the area on Thomas Street that isn't finished inside the curb that could be all grass or is that type of material is be concrete everything between the curbs is going to be asphalt um there is a pathway that is

going to be pervious pavers that will be between Kelly and the uh and go through the um uh Plum Tree Park and that will be what is commonly referred to as a shared use path so can bicycles can be on it and pedestrians can be because it'll be eight feet wide um so when it gets all so Thomas got gets all the way I can't think the street Kelly is it Kelly all the way down sorry Kelly I mean I saw TR I saw the other day a bus was trying to to maneuver there what we're going the way the way they they cut that they should have it's going to get cut more is it that one and another location at Archer will have some corrections done surprised somebody hasn't it out for you driving out in the field sometimes we see problems that occur when that you don't see when the consultant finishes the plan if there's nobody coming out the bus have problem right and it's not even just buses it's just cars in today's world a car is a truck and uh for them to there was if you're on Thomas Street and wanted to go to left on South Kelly like if you're going to the mall which is there's your cut through thing that's what people have done for the last 50 years that maneuver is hard to do if somebody's turning right you can't do that the same time anymore well in some sense that's intentional but we also don't want to create accidents people have asked me why they doing this I said well slow traffic down and um it's working um but it's also diverting them to other streets and I don't know that this is directly related to this but another place there's increased cars is picture picture on Gordon Street and we just talked about the historic house there at Gordon and Richardson people when they're coming across Gordon they're turning left onto

Richardson to go to Broadway now they're not they're not going up to Williams anymore and get the stop sign and turning left they're slithering through there and I I think they they don't have to stop sign there and they and they barely stop at once they get to Richardson and Broadway and and of course on on Richardson Street there are no sidewalks and there is parking so from a pedestrian standpoint sometimes one of which is me uh that's just different and I don't know what changed that piece so much other than when we added that very nice new home on uh Gordon in the last year or so it was always you know a lot normal construction vehicles out there and people suddenly just s I'm just going to divert over to Richardson and they keep doing it and in increasing numbers yeah and that's what we're hoping that the we actually intentionally delayed our study of Howard Park because we wanted to include a finished Thomas Street absolutely and um and to understand what that means with regard to traffic and how we can address it because those kind of I'm hoping that I mean we're studying a total of like 18 intersections in that little area and um those will all get numbers and the and we're hoping that our consultant will be able to give us recommendations on how to fix it one of the problems with cut through traffic is it to solve the problem typically creates inconvenience on the residences so it's only got four houses on that Richardson c um and there again maybe a speed bump the other thing with with all of this is there are no sidewalks on that stretch of Gordon Street either right now that

was between Atwood and Williams that was pursued by the town and we could not get the right away for it from from the residents so they have the right to just say well you're not going to build sidewalks there right okay well I mean we could pursue imminent main but I don't really want to head in that direction for obvious reasons you know and with this increase of traffic and with this encouragement of Walkers then these are well one of the things that beler is I want to say famous for but certainly our strengths is our pedestrian connectivity and we want to make sure that in places like Richardson and Gordon that we provide that so it's I don't think we're giving up but it's there again you got the situation same situation on Gordon as you do on Richardson only more traffic and you because you got pedestrians and no sidewalks and you got parking and you got people going to to the uh L dendron yes yeah so don't if they don't want sidewalks per have to take the parking away that would solve it could be um one of the things that there are a lot of things that slow down traffic parking is one of them landscape is one of them Lane width is one which is why Thomas looks the way it is um it for years we had regular complaints about Thomas Street with trucks and cars speeding yep that's right now we're getting the opposite complaints now they just now they just don't use the street anymore right we've succeeded um anyway that's we're at with that if there's no more U commissioner comments there is opportunity for public motion sorry ask from the

public sir would you like to speak are I'm just oh very good okay you know did anyone see this article in the E just um talked about the Belair officials approve the new laws mixing residential and Retail downtown did we want to approve the um oh I'm sorry okay uh do I have a motion for approval of the annual report as R second all those in favor thank you now okay this article that was in the EES the only thing that Disturbed me about it is that um where can I find it he mentions the multif family residential property talking about hickory black flats with 100 apartments aren't there 79 there's uh 87 87 yes okay I just didn't like it started out with 101 and they had to revise it down okay so they they came in once and then had to withdraw right okay I just didn't like the ex exaggeration we don't enough problems with that okay so now we're going to do the project status report please um I think you've seen the kabad uh along Broadway they're moving along um how fast things going you don't have to do a foundation right yeah it's basically all on slab yeah um flat you can look out the door see what's

happening out there um Taco Bell has an approval and they are um uh they're due to expire here soon in uh September so they need to start moving getting under construction uh Wellwood uh assisted living is in the same situation they're they were approved in October of uh 20 three now they're approaching expiration do you know what the hold up is for them St huh State Highway well State Highway has slowed them down yes supposed State Highway when I last talked to put a light out there lanean yeah I personally I think that they should have talked to their neighbor a little bit more because I knew that that was going to be a problem because they're so close to the light and uh their neighbor has an existing curb cut so I don't know why they're putting them through so much I mean well I do know why uh that it is it's kind of a hazardous entrance and exit but um they haven't come back to visit us as far as changing their plan so when they get when they get close to the end are they notified by the Planning Commission just reminding them plan planning department just reminding them we have no obligation to do that because sometimes we just you know it slips through but we do try to remind them if we can um Raising Canes demoed everything so they're getting ready to move along yeah it's interesting I was about ready to give you a call the other day because the weather was getting nicer like I'm driving by raising train I'm looking at the fencing that's all on on the

sidewalk you know fun thing when the kids aren't walking around now the kids are going to be walking around they got all the outside fencing there and as I'm driving to work that morning I see it all knocked over into their was think well um we actually told them that they couldn't that they had to maintain the uh the sidewalk so they I it should be fixed by now I'll talk to DPW just have the little on right can't force people out into the street so somebody cut their signs lay down the ground really um siip TI No SI tied there's no way they fell off or blew off I didn't I didn't realize that that was a problem area so neighborhood is that a tough neighborhood it's all the anti- chick Chen yeah I guess so yeah maybe there's a investigate Chick-fil-A see if there's a do they yeah atast two good yeah I did not realize I didn't hear about those problems so I'll I'll talk to DPW about that yeah before the building came down there were a couple of homeless that I saw there on the regular basis um let's see um standard on bond of course you've seen that I think if you've been driving down on street they're moving along fast looks like the park will be the first piece I say I know which is great normally that's something is last you know because it's

but that they jumped on that quick which is great um the residents as Harford Mall have still not come in and gotten there they're they're moving slow um I think in some ways they are um kind of a victim of the complicated nature of all of the owners out there uh is that because yeah Liz has been going through the process of trying to get development agreements and approval agreements and all of these uh and there's a a utility problem that they have to address so there there's definitely um a lot of hurdles that they've been having to clear yes how about the meeting that happened recently about the 75,000 square feet of demo yeah I was going to say the outcome of that Lois and I attended but maybe Kevin is there something you'd like to Sure share with the group about that they're proposing to obviously everybody knows Macy's is gone uh they're proposing demo Macy's and a small portion of the actual mall itself which I think is really limited to the corridor um and that will be replaced by a series of what I'm I would call Pad sites uh and then a upscale organic grer we got an upscale again grer on the other end bu yeah how that turn yeah believe me you're talking you're speaking to the choir on this one I'm not real happy that they're trying to proceed along with phase three when they haven't finished phase one I was frankly disappointed with the entire project I I can't understand why and at least this is the way I Envision

it they have all that parking that's where most accidents occur you know with children or whatever um and then the areas all around it and yet when you look at the whole property there um and the land that that buts um Belair Road and 24 they have all that open space there if they could I would love to see um maybe a twocc car three car um parking area and then take the center where they've got all that parking and turn that into a Community Gathering Park I from what I've read with the these malls just falling apart people want to have a destination to go to they don't want additional stores and again you know they want going to put in another grocery when they haven't even filled the other grocery and um the area where um Bone Fish there are three at least three unoccupied business businesses right there it just doesn't make any sense to me they have an opportunity to really do something for the community and it's just turning into a commercial again let me ask this question the ball sold the Sears property to the mall sold the Sears property to the developer who came before us and said because it's not the mall I mean it's part of the but it's not the all owners it's not the same owners but the way that the town looks at you they we they're in the same boat they're they're right everybody's in the same boat but my point being is the people that develop the Sears property are not the

all so is it the mall that's looking to do the same thing on the other end or they looking to the mall the developers of be the developer the developers of shops at Harford Mall which which was phase one um where the original grocery store that's still sitting empty is located um are the same developers that are uh proposing phase three which is the one that you looked at at the concept and they were questioned on all this at that meeting and they were it was the same guy was very comfortable with this idea that the lead store is going to be another grocery store you know and it it gets back to where what's the role of government and it maybe not to tell them that you already have enough grocery stores who had the same logic when Raising Cane came and in their wisdom that well there's even though there's plenty of chicken in the neighborhood they think they can they think they can make some money and I guess I mean the only thing that I look at is an empty building is an empty building so why tear down why tear down Macy's if it's going to be empty and Build Another Empty build well they're not other than it's may look nicer they're quite sure that um that phase one that that will be occupied and we I got the sense coming out of there that uh the occupant is paying them right now they are oh that's so it's not like it's any financial hardship it's not worked out the way they had hoped as far as these other businesses and peripheral but they said that all those other places are doing fine and the the owner the the occupant of the grocery is a as we know a very large successful company and this is just a fingerna on the body to them this is not like a big deal that well we're not getting any return on our investment there they're taking their time and they have a couple of different models and that's the way it was presented to us so Phil we we've been

doing a lot of work on all these different phases with all the lawyers and there's like four lawyers involved we're having a meeting like once every two weeks to stay on top of this so the issue of phase one came up because Kevin and I agree that this is going to get very very complicated if we allow phase three to go through at Mock speed when they haven't even issue gotten a building permit for two haven't wrapped up one so one of the things I wanted to see because I wasn't really around when y'all approved phase one there's nothing wrong with it I just wasn't familiar enough with it we're working on sewer utility easements that should have gotten to the town that are on the phase one area and I had an occasion to contact uh Chrissy Ming cuz I was reviewing um a particular declaration they had put on the property the owners did so Chrissy tells me that they got a final Uno for what I would call the Shell building so the whole full building she told me that the Amazon Fresh fought for a building permit never pursued it and it was it's been expired for over two years yeah and they haven't they have not done the build out at all so you know part of me was kind of like saying to the lawyer well you know phase one's not done your traffic's not done your architectural columns on the side of the building aren't done and you haven't approved these agreements that we've drafted six months ago easy you know and where's my grocery store so you know it was kind of like why are we doing you know got this in mock speed for a phase three to put a grocery store on the other side in the mall when you haven't even started even got a valid building perit for one I think we learned that got reinforced at the meeting that there's parts of phase

one aside from the structures themselves that have been completed cor um improvements at Gateway Drive and Bolton and at Route One and togate uh so you know and I do remember we certainly at the request we fast-tracked phase one and I would encourage um this body and staff to move slower on phase three get and that that point was made at the concept meeting yeah that's what Kevin told me nice to see something get done on phase one and phase two as far as I'm concerned and we also uh if you remember when we did phase one at that time or maybe no I'm sorry when we did phase two we asked for a grand plan for what are you going to do with all of this and we still haven't seen that yeah and that was raised at the concept meeting they had they had their reasoning for why that's difficult for them to do um to do with the inard of the mall is the problem but not withstanding that we're on record couple years ago now to say well we want a we want a grand plan yeah and they they did provide one with the residences but it was as I've told them it was something that was probably done over the weekend there was no thought in it and um it was uh ey candy uh and that's something that I think we're going to expect with this phase is that they have to provide a real plan and they have to explain it yeah one of the things that irritated me at the concept committee meeting was the presentation was about 30 seconds long she was yeah I heard that and I'm like one if you didn't consider this a serious project it's

showing yes uh and it so we've tried to make it very clear to them that we are problem is is you want to make something clear to them so that they're forewarned but when they just don't pay attention to you and then this upscale organic grocer ends up walking unquote that's you know we want that we want that upscale organic grocer but we also want to make sure that they adhere to the process and that they're not years behind in their improvements correct the best the best news that came out of the concept meeting was that at least at this time they're presenting a commercial establishment and they didn't come in with wanting another 800 apartments on the site so I think we told them that that was I think we've told them like you better think twice before you come in here with that so yeah but Bas based on our approval for for the apartments part of the uh approval was that they kept I can't remember the percentage of uh retail space 50% so and I have no idea how big Macy's is but if they tear it down and they build parking I mean they have they have to in essence make enough square footage between the parking pads and whatever the store is to equal Macy's and whatever else down so yes because that was well and then and then the big question mark about what's the ultimate use of the inard of the mall how does that get resolved at some point by them that's right and that's the one thing I can say is that interior malls just don't work anymore that nobody wants to locate in them um so what do you do with that there's a lot of very smart people

out there that they could figure at how to to uh Market this project I think they do want this upscale grosser to locate so that then it opens up this market for other development to come in other establishments restaurants retail to come in and locate so um but that's all based on their word and it also disappoints me that as far as I'm concerned belir needs a B&B or a h something for people who want to come here I hear complaint all the time there's a wedding there and uh they have to go to aine or um Route 40 and and it also disturbs me that therefore in our neighborhood we have two um rbos or vbos and they both shut down and this was something that gone on for years and and they had regular people coming there didn't disturb anyone and they're denied so people who want to stay in town have no place to go I just um I'm disappointed with that I know that we have pushed this goes back to when Trish Henrich was here we were pushing a little boutique hotel or a B&B um and nobody nobody took it I think that for some reason we're too far away from 95 I'm not really sure what the that's that's the has historically been the key really um this goes back way even before Trish when we Annex the ground where the hospital is we knew we wanted a hospital we had no idea how vast it would need to be so this actually worked out pretty well but Carol dyel worked long and hard to try

to get the kind of Hotel you're talking about to come on that site really no you're too far from 95 right that was the key and in today's world um I they're again I'm I'm a great believer in the capitalist system if somebody thought that a hotel of whatever size would be economically viable at the mall or anywhere else they'd be building one to make money whether we think we need one because we talk to somebody who's had family in town I know you know far as office of which I worked at one I don't think they get a lot of the same number of visitors that we used to get that might even be interested in a thing like that it would come up every now and then and they would go to White Marsh or Baltimore to stay overnight they wouldn't they weren't going to Aberdine or any of those but I don't know if you have enough if you had enough to sustain it somebody would show up with their money just like they did with more chicken okay good that's how it works we eat chicken I'm I was hoping for sports venue go in there something I I will tell you that next month you'll be reviewing a and I don't know if this is something you want to see uh an amusement Center which is basically a trampoline park oh it is proposed to go into the retail space of Pet Boys Pet Boys will stay there their their uh service Bays will stay there but the retail space I guess just has not been making money they right down the street from Auto Zone yes it's empty it's been shut down shut down a year right so that's what you'll see next month is a trampoline park proposal interesting got tall ceilings yeah hopefully you don't hit your head yeah what about the what are

they doing with Pioneer clean cleaners they've removed the siding but now there's just the wood there across from IBC uh um they have a grant to tear down those two buildings um the property owner is moving slowly uh and we're hoping that they'll complete this because IBC needs to address some things that they have a need for um and taking out those two buildings would provide parking for what they want to expand um I can't tell you any you know I don't know any more than that but we would like to see those two buildings removed because those are hazards y well they are yeah and the the the parking lot that they were supposed to I thought um bring up to a standard nothing has ever been done with that nothing has has been done they're still operating under the allowances provided through covid when covid came in in 2020 they were able to expand without acquiring all of the per as a temporary parking area well temporary parking areas are just that they're temporary they eventually have to be made permanent which means storm water management needs lighting needs uh landscape um all the things that a normal parking lot would need um but they just threw down some gravel and said Park here and that was fine with us because that was Co and we needed the space but um it's not necess necessarily the the case anymore we would but we don't want IBC to go out of town we'd like to have them stay not the best but it provided the parking right it took the park but if they were to parkor across Maine that provides their parking the that that other property can be returned to its previous uh condition

and they're good to go and you talk about things you I know I don't want to sound dismissive but you mentioned these things about public amenities where people would go and enjoy themselves well for somebody who owns the properties this is yeah well how do I make any money doing that well here's how you open in a brewery and then people come and that's if you go up there on a Saturday afternoon in the DEA winter that's where people are they bring their kids and their dogs and they have a good time there and I will say I I think somebody mentioned not g broke having it somebody mentioned Macy's and that you have this perfectly good building and no one's utilizing it um I I'm originally from Kansas City Kansas City has a concept called chicken and pickle it's basically chicken which I know we don't need but and pickle ball and they have it inside and then there's other things um uh Top Golf you know there's all of these what I would consult call attractions that bring people in and then they can walk around and do other things and shop and eat um but and that's what I think the Harford Mall lacks there's a profit motive there and and an idea this is how you get people that's the only way you going get people back to the mall you're exactly right make it a destination but then that needs to include something that they can make somebody makes money right or else it doesn't haveen right so otherwise it's a big church all right that's all I have I just have two other comments um I'm not sure everybody knows but uh Phil was given the Tommy bremmer

award congratulations yes indeed got that was certainly showed up on the Facebook and I even got a frame of that photo that's nice that's nice so congratulations on that and then I just want to out does anybody or um is would anyone like to consider our meetings 5 or 5:30 or does six o' just suit everybody really bringing that up at the worst possible time of year for him too very true I think uh you you've moved just twice L you've done well but six is probably about all right you'll serve as dinner 5 o' Maybe think about serve you liation liation here approve okay also just to let you know we're we're in the process of interviewing Deputy director's position for planning hoping to have some information you to for you at the next meeting very good has Rowan okay he I just he has some issues that he has to deal with uh medical wise and it he just couldn't continue in his capacity so um I have not heard from him for a while he's on short-term disability right now anyone ready for ad Journey move yep okay thank you thank you thank you for