Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

This is getting planning commission to order. The date is Thursday, April 23rd, 2026 and the time is 59 and seconds. Jenny, please call the role. Matt here. Mary here. Seth here. David here. Bill here. Steve here. We have a quorum.

Uh, next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from the April 16th, 2026 planning commission meeting. Are there any additional any additions or corrections? If there are no changes, I'll take a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion. I get a second. I'll second that. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion has approved.

Okay. We'll now open the floor for public comments at 6:02 p.m. This portion is for comments on items not scheduled for a public hearing this evening. Speakers are asked to state their name and address for the record. Is there any public comments? Maybe self. Marty Mcderm 16 South Dyer Street on Des Missouri 64076 but I look at what you propose it's good that the sad thing is in a plan review of the properties there should have been noted so you wouldn't shouldn't necessarily be back discussion unless it was new business before this commission So, it comes to you basically because it wasn't caught ahead time, not your fault. Um, and and as I've discussed with folks from the city, they they know need to probably have someone on staff. Big problem with that. Where do you get the money to pay? cuz them people going to come cheat it would have have eliminated this. Yes, probably so. And that individual could live could be standing in my place tonight telling you we need to review this ordinance and make some adjustments and give you some background on that historic

not anything else. Um, all of your parking directly to the residents as you have proposed it here should be hard surface, asphalt, concrete. We fought this battle years ago when I first got on commission and we we decided then that we wanted hard service. And the reason is it cuts down dust for our neighbors. Must be neighbor right from the start. You want to add to your driveway saying it's in the ordinance already. hard surface gravel's not okay. My suggestion is leave that alone. Hard surface, concrete asphalt. Um I've heard discussions about uh chip and seal. That's not hard surface. It breaks down too easy. It's a good maintenance surface for a road or already a hard surface, but they may get the basis. No. No. If it if it worked, they wouldn't be doing the county roads and that on a regular basis. You drive around our town. See, we still had to go back and and redo it. So, it's not a permanent, it's not a a real hard surface type thing. Um, I think as far as the driveways and that are concerned, that's where that's where my recommendation be. That's what I

would say six not go backwards. Is it good for Odessa? Seeing no further comments, public comments are now closed at 6:06 p.m. Now open public hearing for comments related to amending chapter 50 section 50 through 58 in regards to off streetet parking for single family dwellings at 6:06 p.m. and staff do their presentation.

So this is section 5058 of our code specifically related off street parking for all R1 zones. So um last month when we reviewed the parking and driveway ordinances we realized that our code states that you have to have two garage parking spaces for each dwelling unit. and we have not been following that code. So our suggestion is to amend that to allow for one car and no cars or rockets so that we can have more affordable housing. Um attachment I've included on affidavit of publication in the ordinance. Um at the last meeting we discussed the following changes to the ordinance. So that's what we proposed here. Instead of two garage parking spaces for each rolling unit, and again this is today only under single family, we propose two bedrooms or less to be two spaces exclusive of garage interior space for three or four bedrooms, three spaces exclusive of garage interior space. Five bedrooms or more, we kept that four spaces exclusive of garage interior space. And then we did the same on garage apartments and we took out the guest rooms that we talked about last time. But that's just what we're prop focusing for tonight and dive deeper into the elevation factor. But that's we want to get that changed so we can move forward with our onecar garage development. And this will go before the board on Monday, April 27th. staff does recommend approval of the Any questions?

So on the one car garage, you want it to just have parking for one car. So our well our current code has you have to have two garage spaces and so we have all of these properties right now that are just single car garages. That's the direction that I have to continue to go just make it more affordable. Yeah. The new bedroom, the new written language, there's an ordinance in your packet and it it takes out um the garage parking spaces.

We removed that section. So, this is similar to what Higginsville and can't remember the other city had where it went by room size um per your request at the last meeting. When when somebody gets a building permit from the city, do they say this is two bedroom, three bedroom, four bedroom? Yeah, they have to submit buildingans. That's on the the application. They submit full building plans, mechanical, plumbing, electrical, everything. So it would show the exact dimensions of the garage and everything. Number of bedrooms, number of bathrooms. We did all that information.

Any more questions that you mean? So, two bedrooms is two spaces. Three bedrooms is three spaces. Five bedrooms is four space parking and it's got to be hard circuit. Yes. Well, we haven't we haven't technically addressed the materials portion of the ordinance. We're just looking at single family, but yes. Okay. Very good. And we remove the guest rooms like we discussed. We removed that section. All right. Anybody else going to be putting for sale?

Oh, I would say the only thing that I see as a negative here is the five bedrooms or more requiring four spaces. So, that's the only thing I think capping it at three spaces would be more um friendly to development. So when you're talking about having three spaces, if the driveway is long enough for two cars, does that count as two spaces then? So it doesn't necessarily have to be the width. Yeah. It would be based off of the 9 by 20 size requirement. They'll have to be 8 9 by 20. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So they would have to have space for either two 9 by20 spaces, three 9 by20 spaces, or four 9 by 20 spaces, but they could also be going lengthwise, not necessarily the width of the house. Correct. You could have one behind the other that side to side and side by side. Yeah, that's be 18. It' be 9 by 40. Technically be 18 by 40. Well, they gonna make it twice as wide. It be park one behind the other. guy the eight. Well, if you're having four spaces, it would be 18. I guess that

he's saying though that the code is not limiting the width. So, you could do just one car width and then four spaces technically because the code doesn't say otherwise. So, size of the block would dictate that, right? And we do have a lot of 50 foot wide lots that may may require three spaces and that's going to be really difficult to do on those 50 houses. Well, unless it's too deep, but it was deep enough. They were long enough. Yeah.

Is this going to cause a problem? Uh a couple couple meetings ago there was brought up about paving the whole front of the house. Yeah. and limiting that. Are we going to have another issue when that

Well, and so the rest of this is just a portion of the ordinance. It's just one section of the ordinance that quantifies this, how many parking stalls is required, but the rest of the ordinance goes into your parking materials, your lot, your parking or driveway widths and size and stuff like that. So, if we wanted to do this, but then be a little bit more detailed on the rest of the parking details, we could also do that. In the sections that specify parking space dimensions, we talked about last time, we have the ability to have a, you know, a width minimum or width maximum and that' be your, you know, coverage of your front yard. So, we don't end up with houses that the entire front yard is just parking.

That makes sense. But this section of the code does not speak to that but that it can be addressed in the rest of the code. We talked with um some of the development community and mentioned this topic um and they talked about you know the price the prices of concrete and how expensive that this could get technically. I mean that's their business though. Everything else lumber get beat on can't be paid for lumber.

Well, and you have but you have to be conscious cons conscious of that because we want to allow for affordable housing. And that was a part of the conversation that we had is that we're in this era that affordable housing doesn't exist. affordable housing means a $300,000 house is the cheapest you can build today and that's not classified as affordable. But these types of um implications on in our code speak or have a direct correlation with the cost of affordable housing in our best for new construction.

You have any questions for staff? Everybody good with that? We'll now open the public hearing for comments specifically related to amending chapter 50 section 50 through 58. Speaker should state their name and address for the record. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this amendment? I would Mark Mcder 316 South Dire Street Odessa Missouri I support them. I think it's I think it's a good choice. Gives options. Maybe it helps get a little more development. It gives them some options. Thanks. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition of this amendment? All right, public hearing has closed at 6:16 p.m. Is there any further discussion from the commission on this amendment? Got any comments, questions, thoughts?

All we're doing is talking about the size now. Not but it's going to be counting for you to ask for just size just the quantity of spaces. If you look if you can get to the page that has the ordinance on it, that's what we're approving for recommendation to the board of alderman. It's says bill number. No, it says bill number at the top. And then a blank after the newspaperation.

That's fair. That's fair.

All right, everybody. Good. Any more discussion or anything? Okay. Can I get a motion for amending chapter 50, section 50 through 58 of the Odessa code of ordinances? I'd like to make a motion that recommends approval of the change to chapter 50, section 50 through 58. Can I get a second? I'll second it. Is there any discussion? Okay, Jenny, can you call the role? Matt, yes. Mary, yes. Seth, yes. David, yes.

Bill, yes. Steve. Yes. Okay. Motion is approved.

All right. Next item of new business is the three plat RP-02-206 parcel number 22-3.0- 06- 0-000032.00 0000 and 22-3. D-6-0000 dash 042.0000 Asher Meadows lots two and three 510 East Orchard Street and 406 South Johnson Drive. Uh staff, can you get your previtation?

We all this property back in January, Mr. Asher actually um was trying to replat just two properties back in January um at 510 East Orchard. His plan was to well it was two lots on one cartel and his plan was to split that off in order to eventually sell that second lot. Um after he went through the commission um the title company had issues with part of his garage was on his neighbor's property. So he's now proposing a three lot split reflat. So he's reached out to his neighbor the brokers I do have their application. So they have moved that property line so that it's no longer encroachment on the neighbor's property. Um, if you look at the survey there, it's now three lots instead of the two that we had back in January. I've included both applications from both property owners, the location map in the survey. And this will also go before the board on Monday as

you question. Is this that one that we did with the like it was going to be like a tiny little split or something? Right. It just barely. So at the time they only moved the middle line and it's like they were like a you're talking about like a shotgun house or something like 70 feet wide. Yeah. It was like it's 70t wide in the front and 60 feet wide in the back. So it'll make it that big. They couldn't build a little house on it. Won't be that small a lot then. We didn't we didn't we change that number that one line right there on orchard. Correct. We approved it once. Yes. They're going to make it bigger now.

They moved the middle lot line and then moved the bottom lot line where the existing garage is. They moved that over to the left. Okay. Because it was it was impeding on the neighbor's property. So I guess I'm confused. How is it? I see this that area is actually not the assessor map is on the way. Correct. I don't see read on here. I only see two. Where's the How are they divided by Look at this.

This is one parcel, but it's actually two separate lots. These are little dotted little in the middle. It says you can It's hard to read, but in blue it has a three and a four. So down there between two and three, that small area right there. They taking it in. They took it in three and took it into two. No, the spot but the slot between two and three is a part of lot one. Now you see the it's all going to be that wide all the way down. I guess

it's 70. Okay, I'm good. It's wider than those slots. All right. Very good. That's fine.

Our minimum lot size is 8,400 square feet. Yeah. It's still

So, the garage would go on. The garage is on lot one now. All right. So, the house on the left would be a lot. The garage would be a lot. And then the second house would be a lot. Correct. Okay. Yeah. So, there's three. Lot three is the one says unplatted. Lot one is the skinny one in the middle. And lot two is the wider long skinny one. So it was 312 on on this map and that one like you said is the minimum.

Yes. 70 feet is the minimum our code requires for a lot width. That was the original reason we flatted it because it didn't meet that requirement. Very good. Great. Thank you. It is a complicated. I'll now invite the applicant for their representative to speak.

Is there any discussion on reach classific case number RP-02-2026 from the commission? Not really. Will we do something like this? What does does it cost us anything to do it the second time or? No, they had to pay the application fee a second time the customer did or the applicant. Thank you. I'll now take a motion regarding REL case number RP-02-2026

make a motion accept the changes is that still we'd still have it right about setback and easement on each side that little wouldn't it Yep. Yes. Okay. That's fine. Sorry. Y Okay, that's fine. I got my head in. Okay, I'm good. I was just gonna say when you read the switch it

I'll second that. All right. All in favor? Any oppose? You vote. Nay. Right. Uh by my account motion is approved. We'll now continue our discussion on parking and driveways. So I intended to have like some written language for you and I was not able to have that completed in time. But um where do we leave off? We were on materials. On materials then.

Okay. Well, let's go through materials and then we'll come back and make sure that these still perfectly.

Okay. So, on the materials ordinance or section of the code, we that's where we left off. So, we'll just base this off of our one single family. It'd be section 50-59 item E is our current language. Okay. So we talked about um so our current language reads asphalt well reads off street driveway and parking area shall be constructed and maintained with asphalt, concrete or other approved paving materials capable of supporting all vehicles used thereon in all weather conditions without emitting dust or mud onto an adjacent street or joining property during normal normal and customary use. And so we have from other communities where um they list um um asphalt, concrete or paver brick and then they list um

this one's kind of other Oh, that's correct. That's all they allow single family.

Oh, okay. So, back to our chart that we were looking at last time. I if you guys have it this time, um like Blue Springs requires for single family and multi-family it says approved asphalt, concrete or PA brick. And then for commercial, it says 5 in of concrete, 6 in of asphalt, or 3 in of asphalt with 8 in of base. And that's the same language for Blue Springs, Grain Valley, Higginsville, and Oak Grove. Lexington re reads as concrete, asphalt, or other sealed surface, which is similar to what ours is saying. And then I already read ours. So, um, what are we thinking after a week of sleeping on it? I know last time we all agreed we didn't want it in new construction gravel. I think that's

so I know everybody loves my thoughts but I actually said after a week of thinking and you know mom and dad always taught me to pick the hills you want to die on. So I don't really feel like dying on that hill without gravel. I'm good with staying the status quo of what was decided many millions ago.

You guys weren't here for the conversation last time. So, yeah. Does that mean you you want to be able to put gravel in there? No. Would anyone ask for Would you guys like to maybe update these two on where our conversation how it evolved?

Yes. As far

and this is all new construction. It's no it's it's for anyone. This code applies to anyone. So basically when you know I want to take and to add something widen my driveway and everything I'm gonna have to How does how does this how does this affect uh the gravel driveways now? So if you have an existing gravel driveway you're grandfathered in put a new driveway in. Can you put it in gravel? No. You can maintain your existing gravel driveway. So if you put another driveway in, would it have to be hard surface or gravel? But you can maintain your existing gravel driveway.

If they're making it bigger, then it would have to be hard surface. That would be crazy. What about if they got the like over on I believe the fourth and the fifth, they build a house there, but one car garage, they got a detached garage. If they put the right driveway into that, it's going to have to be hard surface, right? Yeah, that's true. And that's something we did talk about. Yeah. At the last meeting. access roads between that should be then we talked about how that's not like with your example but this would

yeah this yeah remember yeah I know I totally forgot I

um this will be a hill that I will die on um so I will voice that like I do think that we need to examine this more. I understand the historical context to it. Um, but I also need to reiterate that like I have three acres. There are still plots of land in this city that have large amounts of land to it. If I wanted to build a building on the back part of my land, I could not then put in a gravel driveway. I would have to put in a however long your driveway is probably of concrete while I have a gravel driveway because my grandfather did it. So I do think that we need to consider this. I'm not advocating for new builds to be able to have gravel drivers. I'm not that's not even a thought of my mind. Uh but you know I do think about we've talked about the economy and how expensive concrete is. I don't see the issue of you know you have a single car you know thing and then putting in a additional one parking pad. So like that is my concern for having like a I don't got no majors like I'm surrounded by fields. So like that's my thought that we need to consider, you know, or even access.

You define access road. Yeah. What do you what's what do you mean by driveway? But what's an I mean like an alley? Does the city maintain city maintains that though? Well, I think we talked about last time too about maybe having it behind the house. So that's something we make. What I'm calling an access road would be basically a going from your driveway or whatnot to your out building, right?

That is on the back side of your property or something like that. Now granted, me being in the middle of town, what is the chance of us doing an area of say, all right, people who live within a certain distance of downtown so that you don't have the dust and all that stuff. Okay, you guys can't do this. You live on the outskirts, you got two plus acres, nobody around you, go for it. That way you can kind of help everybody. I don't know. Throwing it out there.

I see what you're saying. What about when they build a sedation over behind the trailer, you know? Okay, that's way down. I think there something I'm not I'm a trying to be a horseer. I'm just saying something like that. I understand what you're saying. Just like you're saying if it goes from the back of your house to the barn out there garage gravel, I wouldn't think that' be a problem, but if you drive it all the way from the front, you know what I mean? Like that. So, I got to be got to find some limitation or some specifics to something, you know? That's what we're here to out and figure out. That's our job is to to do that. I mean, granted, I still go down my street and there's all kinds of gravel driveways. Cost me 30 grand to

do mine. But hey, it's But now with gravel, then if you replace the supposed statue said you'd have to go hard. You can't go gravel again. Even though you have gravel, if you have gravel, you can maintain your gravel driveway. As long as you're keeping it the same size, you can maintain to expand it or anything then.

Yeah, that'd be kicking ahead. Yeah, that'd be a tough deal. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you on that one. Yeah, I don't know. That's why this has been kind of such a debate is because we don't want like we even talked about doing like a a time period of age of a home to be able to do it, but it just gets so complicated because we are such a unique community and the fact that we still are I always use my property a rural area inside the city limits, you know, like up on the hill there's I have three, my neighbors have an acre and I think there's five acres right there and I don't know what the guy has. So,

okay. So an example like what property Seth has or or even that if it's other than your main parking places and ingress and the egress off of the road is there a if I was to come to you and I have a piece of property that has and I want to build a road from my house to my back barn. Can I get an exception to do that in gravel? We would have to put that into the code. We talked about that last time.

We did talk about it. Is there anybody any other town that has anything like that written in their codes that or that addresses it at all? I did research some smaller towns and I was not able to find any that allowed gravel at all. What about if you had the acreage like what you say? You got three acres. Say they put an addition in behind you. They put a brand new addition in behind you. And they're going, "Well, this guy here got driveway running from his house out to his barn. I got this new addition in here and I got to put everything in concrete." Just as an example, what could happen then? Then what do we do? I'm not saying that's the solution, but that what we do then. I agree with that. An equity issue.

We already have an equity issue. There are 15 gravel driveways surrounding this building right here. And that doesn't even count what's up there or over there. Like building a brand new subdivision right here. So, we've already had an equity issue. But the equity issue that we have now is because it's from the date of the ordinance adoption either forward or backward, not not a created equity issue like where we say these people can, but these people can't. When was this put into effect? What we had? I don't know. Marty says the 70s.

It was in the 70s and and at that time it simply read that all driveways would be hard service as the specs say. how the driveways that got built or the additions that got put on and gravel were allowed is beyond me. I've questioned five in the last 15 years and I was told no, it's okay. But the code says this, it can't be okay for Seth. It's not okay for you. Okay. If a driveway, as the code says, is currently in ground, then you can maintain it. If it doesn't exist, you have to build it to the code, the standard.

Even if it doesn't come from the river, it just comes from the back of the house. Still gota be harder. Gravel. Where's the gravel from? I was thinking maybe since it didn't go clear the road made it. I'm tell you what, I got I've suffered this because I put in I added a parking space on my property. I didn't I couldn't afford concrete, but I could afford asphalt.

And that's how I went. I had put a 6 inch bed and put my asphalt as was required over it. Did I like it? No. But I did it. And that's why you can look right down here on Dryen just before the park on the left hand side. That ranch style house. That's one of the ones I'm talking about. When that house was built, the ordinance was already in effect. Okay, go back and try and get it done now. You're under the third owner since that happened. Okay, makes it tough. And that's why having someone on staff who has the education, the certifications to do your plan reviews and inspections both eliminates a lot of this. Okay. But again, as I said before, it's a doubish.

Would the city engineer be responsible for some of that doubt when it dropped? Well, that was that would have been my question. Yeah. Okay. If that's who does the plans review, then I would think yes. If that isn't who does the plan review, I don't know. Okay. We've only started sending plan review, site plan review to our engineers since I've been in this position. So before that, I don't know that they were always reviewed by the engineer and and whether or not they reviewed them to our codes and ordinances.

Our codes are not the best either. So things get missed. Just human error. Um, I did I do have language for to for like behind the bu home to a rear accessory building. Um, so like we can we can technically could say like all driveway and required parking areas located between the front property line and the front building line. Or we could even do back building line shall be constructed in concrete or asphalt. And then gravel or crushed stone driveways and parking areas shall be permitted only behind the front building line or back building line and shall comply comply with gravel standards which we would have to then create which would require base and all of that. So we if we were to go down that road, we'd have to do back of building because that would then in my case if we went front of building I could throw a ton of ground and that's really not what

so you'd have to have to it. Yeah. So, if I were to stay attached to the back alley, I could do that in a gravel because that'd be behind the back of my house. If you're going to Yeah, I think we would need to put something in there that says to an accessory building or something like that. I would think we'd have to do that unless we were willing to pay the alleys, right? I wouldn't feel comfortable telling somebody they had to put a concrete pad in to go to the gravel.

That's true. Alley you said. So you're saying if they come in off the ground off alleyway they can just do that. I should be I would think so. I guess if you don't like Matt said behind the the rear line of the house backwards. I guess I can handle gravel with that, you know. I mean, I don't I don't know how she do it. Yeah. I don't I don't know who's responsible for the alleys now. Is that That's city. It depends on the alley, but Oh, some of them are. Some of them are.

Sound like an attorney. It does though. It depends on each island. Some are some are maintained by the city center. So I kind of looked up some of what they consider like a road going from your house to your barn and it actually is called a private road and it's maintained by the homeowner or the landowner and it's not necessarily used for parking or anything like that. It's just a means to travel on your own property. So I don't know address it that way.

A creature any anywhere where you got you know enough room. not being cute. You're not going to put one on a 70 by 100 foot right

lot. and all if I may. Anything that does not connect with a city, street or a a road, alleyway used by the city that's accessed by the property owner owner only is a private garage. Okay, that as far as I know that is not in your city codes and ordinances. So you would have to add that in order to make that okay. Okay. Then you have to decide what the materials are allowed. But if it connects to a city maintained, I don't care what it's gravel, you have to install that in accordance with codes and ordinances for that type of property, whether it's R1, C1, whatever. Okay? Simply put, a private drive the city has no responsibility to maintain, i.e. night. Okay. Were you I don't know if you were here at the ninth street at the box. That's another another conversation we're not getting into tonight. But

yeah, the entire road at least private. I'm not sure if it still is or not. It's no longer Yeah, it used to the entire road used to be private. But but but the point is, are there ways around it? And then are you going to create a way for someone to manipulate your codes and ordinances to meet their needs outside of what is normal? What are you going to do? You may create work with board zoning adjustment.

Uh you know I mean I don't know that be the problem what you just said. Somebody try to manipulate try to think something to get around it. Is it happening today? that I'm gay. Well, and I think the difference in what Marty's explaining is like if you were to do like your I mean quite frankly like your address um and driveway the driveway to get to your accessory building in the back is still connected to your your main driveway. So it it would not be considered a private drive. So let

me let me throw this to you. You drive in your garage, you push another button, the door opens on the back of your house and you can drive out that. That's a private drive. No one accesses that unless they drive through your garage. That's private. Accessible by property owner only. You're saying from the back of the house out the barn where you go. Basically, that's what you're talking about.

It is. And then you got to ask yourself this question. Do we need to create an ordinance for the allowance of private drops? Well, you have to specify probably get all that in there. I mean, you got to be le back of the house. You can't go into the road. There's all kinds of things. You got to get in there. But all I'm saying is currently you don't have that in your ordinances to allow private drives. So you would have to make that ordinance and then what that material shall be understand this it cannot connect to the city alley cannot connect to any city infrastructure like roads alleys d without it falling under the codes and ordinances currently in existence smile controlled by the

I have no idea. Um I think the one of the problems we have existing is the fact that it says asphalt, concrete or other approved paving materials but yet we don't have any definition of what other approved paving materials is. So we only treat it as asphalt or concrete, right? Period. We're on a mega definition of what it is. Yes. If there is anything else unless if there is any additional items beyond asphalt and concrete, but there are those like hexagon titles that people live in grow brass papers. Oh, that's a paper brick, which other cities do list.

Blue Springs. Yeah, Blue Springs, Grain Valley, Pigginsville, and Oak Grove allow for favorite bricks.

Something there was, but I don't know that it ever got. So, so what are we thinking? You put paste on that make it 100% solid but but front to rear back to the side you have grass in the middle there no room solid papers are put in with a bed what's that favors are put in with some kind of a bedding material whether it's pee gravel or what we have that in our ordinances nope

no as I just told we we were discussing that one time and I don't know what came It was some crisis we had to deal with and we never got back to. We also it may have been the changing of a city administrator. Uhhuh.

We also have the topic of chip seal too. I think that most of the requests that we get with people who are like well what are other paving materials? It's in regards to whether or not they can use chip seal on their driveway. Um the biggest thing with chips seal is that it is not you can't create a driveway with chips seal. You need to maintain a driveway with chip seal. It can't be the main material like you grade your grass down to dirt and then you put chip seal down. It's it's more so used for industrywide for repair and maintenance of an existing asphalt or or concrete drive. But if we are wanting to allow something like that, it does give an more affordable option like for people who you know have deteriorating asphalt and concrete. It gives another affordable option but doesn't allow for just brand new construction of using

it some kind of standard. Some guy couldn't put more on push gravel on buy a dime and you say this is it right some kind of standard you had to meet. I agree with that. So we we lay out or other towns, cities lay out you got to have six or eight inches of base under three over under three inches of asphalt.

What would keep us from saying you got to have x amount of base to then chip seal? Because I get I get the the point of chip seal sucks. Yeah, because it won't hold up. It's not what it's designed for. It's designed for maintenance for hard surface roads. Why the state uses a lot of their roads? Because it is what it's designed for. The APWA is the American Public Works Administration. that is I'm assuming that's still who we use for uh that establishes a lot of your requirements for your roads d and there is a base there's a reason they say you put a base underneath even Paul's which is you know one of the things you want to stick to. It supports the hard surface because I go in and I build a road. I got to build it to this APWA standard because I want to give this road to the city. Now, the city has something that meets their standards that's worthy of accepting for future maintenance. I say road, I'm talking about like a housing edition road or whatever extension of a current road.

When when we uh are asked to go from a to residential, you know, we vote on it. Sure. We don't know if there's any roads on there. Yeah, you would. Yeah, you would.

We have it. I if I submit a piece of property for annexation into decision, it comes in as agricultural unless I say it's I want it to be zoned R1 or whatever. Okay, that comes to this commission. You get the site plan. You should get also an area plan that should show you any roads d existing buildings whatever that are on that property. Okay. You can elect as commissioned to send it forth to your elected officials with either a recommendation to accept and approve or a recommendation to reject and nullify. Those are your choices. But you're going to get to look at that piece of property as a bird in a map before it comes in. Okay? you accept my piece of property that I'm bringing in is agriculture and I want it to become R1. There's an existing building on and it's got a gravel road. Does that gravel road leading up to that building have to meet current standards, city standards? Well, when you change it from we're going to R1, all the statutes one coming into effect. That's where it ask

I guess you can say so and does it exist in your current codes and ordinances there see what I'm saying? You actually talk about a road or or a driveway or something actual road as it can be a driveway. Okay. So it's road city's got to maintain if you would annex it or something it become city.

If you annex we're going to annex parcels. If we annex a street, it's going to be like the city's annexing the street. But if you're the annexations that you're going to see are annexations of parcels. So if there's an existing driveway on it, it's it's not coming over as city infrastructure. So like for example, um on the board of alderman agenda coming up, there's the acceptance of the infrastructure for new construction for the hill development. So that's that's new construction new construction of roads that was built to our specifications and our requirements during the other processes outside of zoning processes. So when you're when you're bringing in something for a reszone, what existing infrastructure or what they're going to do with that infrastructure is not necessarily relevant to your decision on whether or not it's reszoned. But then it goes through additional steps to make sure that if the construction or the renovation that they're doing within that parcel meets city code and requirements. So then during the repl or uh if they're going to subdivide it. So it's like 10 acres of our well like the one we just did um north of I7 that was like a 60some acre parcel

that was they're wanting to bring it over a single family. Is there any housing on that? No. No. But during the resone pro process, you're just deciding if that type of of construction makes sense for that area. Yes or no. During the replat process or the subdivision process, that's when you determine where um the the layout and design of future lots and roads and things like that would play into that. We see the drawings how they're develop then we make change. Well,

that's you're talking about subdivision development different from plaquing of partial. Okay. The partial shows the lots. Subdivision development shows you the lots, what kind of homes, what direction they face. It'll have your water lines, your sewer lines. that. But if you had a gravel driveway and you put him in the city, said, "Well, you keep the gravel driveway, put another driveway, and it's going to have to be a hard circle." I think that's where we'd end up at. Could very well be.

Yeah. Could very well be. But that's why there's a that's why there is a subdivision review committee that exists to see if as this development goes forward that it meets the criteria right established by your zones. Sorry. Basically, there's numerous steps to make sure that code is followed as the as the parcel develops. We talked you guys told us that before how we come through it. We get to review it and check. Yeah, that's good. We're good. I'm good on that.

As far as private drives go, so I've got my house and I've got my building back here and I want to get to that building and I want to put it in gravel, but it's going to have to connect somewhere. So, you can connect your vehicle to it. So, it's going to connect to your driveway. It's going to connect something that's going to connect your work. So, it rules it out. It and and what the discussion was, if you say from the rear line of the structure, primary structure back, you can put in that private drive to that accessory building. So, you're still going to have to do some cement yourself. would,

but you're you're making an allowance to say from the rear of the house to that auxiliary structure, you would be okay. That make sense? Yeah. You're given that point to go forward, go change. So, what are what are we thinking on extensions to accessory buildings? I think you're going to have to call those five or private road, something like that.

But to Mary's point, you're not going to have a private road that doesn't come off of your driveway to get to your accessory building. That's well Mary said you'd have to be hard to the back of the house and take gravel narrow back. Would you be saying I'm just saying that at some point it's going to meet and meet touch the road. It would normally unless you go through the garage.

Um the only thing is is you're meeting the parking criteria. Let's say so you have four parking spaces and it's concrete and but I want to go from the side of the house there to my third my second garage back there in gravel. That's that's the thing that I see that cannot

well and that's where we get to the the thing like they were just talking about you'd have to establish okay the boundary is the back of the house. So from the back of the house to the back of your property would be allowed a private drive or private. If you went from the back of the house, like Mary said, in order to get from the front of the house to the back of the house, you'd have to pour another 40 foot or 50 ft of driveway to get there, which is not cheap. Not to throw a hiccup in this, the already grandfathered in gravel driveways.

Yeah. So, technically, I would have to pour a concrete driveway off my gravel driveway to back of my house. But that's what I guess that's the point here is that we're we're creating ordinance at this point. So, that it's what we say it is. Thinking of your neighbor. You have a neighbor that does If you're going to stir up going and driving, I mean, you'd almost have to be past the neighbor's property or, you know, I don't know. It just gets all sticky.

Well, and like with the dust portion of the thing, how much dust do you really kick up when you're just driving at 2 miles an hour or whatever on your little deal? It's not like you're going down a gravel road at 40 miles an hour. You got that big one of dust and he's cancer. How big is your neighbor? Well, that's true, too. What if your neighbor has a real driveway?

That's literally like I think whenever I'm making these points, I'm not making these points out of like my neighbor's got a super nice house with a gravel driveway and my neighbor also has a gravel drive. That's where I'm getting at. But also at this point, I feel like as Shauna said, we're trying to create new ordinance and it's really we're talking about a parking spot, not a like really we're just trying to define what like people should be able to park on and now this is involved in private drive conversation. So, it almost feels like we need to circle back to what's allowed for parking and then we could add private drives.

I almost don't think we should be calling it a private drive for what we're trying to accomplish is an extension of your driveway to a rear accessory building. How about the same thing if you're widening your driveway parking spots? Correct. What do you mean? If you if you need more parking in the front of the house, it's going to be a hard service. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Driveway.

Basically, I think saying anything from back of house to city street is should be paved or asphalt. So if we uh if we say this is what we want to do will uh when there's a ticket issued to somebody which I'm guessing there probably hasn't been a ticket issuing since the 70s would be I would guess not if I'm maintaining or if I'm I'm adding more concrete to my or more gravel to my gravel driveway Okay. If I extend that a little bit, do I have to get a permit? No. Concrete driveway.

Yeah. Yeah. Right now, technically, yes. But if I maintain it, if it just goes a little wider and a little wider and a little wider, there's also another point though to that. There were driveways that have been gravel and people haven't been able to afford to maintain or they just have the old style where they gravel where the two tires were. If you don't fill that in, that would also have to be changed. Yes. So like that's also something to consider. Yeah. How do you how do you control all of that?

Well, again, I think this goes back to a conversation we've had a thousand times. How do we make a rule with no punishment and no enforcement? So, here's what I would put on the table for the hard surfaces of the other approved paving materials. I think we need to put in pavers, bricks or cobblestone. and the deal with the extensions of private roads, driveways, all that and any other materials they want to use has to be presented up for an exception and then we decide then because I don't think we can cover anything and everything that comes across and I'm not so sure we're going to come across that many anyway when people build offices and and uh do things like that.

What's cobblestone? Uh it's kind of like pavers kind of they call them. Well, you like river rock. No, I mean maybe maybe you just want to call it papers, but cobblestone Well, I know what cobblestone is. Okay. But but or this discussion that's been taking place here tonight, what you call cobblestone and what I call cobblestone might be two different things, right? You're you're you're right.

That's why you you're specific about the painters. I'm with you. I think you ought to offer that option. Yeah, there there is cobblestone that are if you go to Italy there just big rocks that are set down on the and everything. But yeah.

Yeah. And but I could do that if I put concrete in between them and everything. I guess if I wanted the driveway like that. It's hard surface. I think one thing it's important to um just say out loud too is h how this process will work is I'm looking for a consensus of this group and then that will give me direction on how to draft an ordinance and then I draft the ordinance and bring it to you. What's everybody say back in the back of I'm struggling to seed any consensus at this point is I'm saying you agree on that.

I don't ask them to do that. I think we need just to focus on one thing at a time. And I think we're focusing on four things. I think we should focus right now on 50 59. I can be on agreement to drop my gravel pursuit off of an additional parking pad if we add brick and paver to that. But with doing PA, we need to become on agreement. Can they do like the oxyagonal pavers like they do in California where grassroots in between is that a good question? So that's the only reason I bring that up is because then someone could be like oh I got like a square here and square here

that's not solid. Yeah, but it technically is solid because it is a solid but it doesn't it doesn't it wouldn't fall underneath the hard surface. It's interrupted by non-salt. Yeah. No, but again, we don't decide that and put that in there. Is it our responsibility to do that? Well, staff can. It is. You're making the ordinance. You're asking her to write it out. Yeah. So, you guys don't have to think of how it's said. You guys just need to say staff needs to include pavers and bricks and

research information and include information about the base, the consecutiveness of it and things like that and we can put the language together. taking your statement on the California concept. You can say literally there shall be no grasp the favor shall abut to each other to make a solid surface. But that's why I wanted to like make sure that continue to set that because they found somebody coming in and like hey

it's just our job to come up with what materials we want to use and we pass it off to her make it sound all legit. There we go. Because you're going to come back here to a public hearing on it anyway. Can we be on agreement on brick? I'm happy with paper brick all the time. You call it brick. There are bathing bricks. Well, we have to go second. Go like this. Raises up. Then they pour sand in it. You still got a mess. What do you do then? We're going to guarantee it's got to be flat and level all you have to have base. You have to have the base, right? You got to have the base. All this is based off of the base. Well, so then get the hard surface,

right? Yeah. Okay. So if there's going to be all kinds of standards to his point of the AW AWPA PA APA APWA APWA I would almost is there with that you bring up a good point. Is there anything in our code that talks about maintenance of the driveway? No. So then we probably also need to write that in as well because if someone has a concrete driveway and it goes all wonky and I was thinking you mean it right. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's that still goes into that. How do you how do you enforce? We have a half of a position. Yeah. True. I guess our it does say maintained in the 509, but I feel like a little bit more than to maybe a safe condition or level condition or something. Okay. So we can

what can we agree on tonight as far as material? I'm down for asphalt, the concrete, the pavers, and the brick. That's the concrete. That's where I'm at. That's right. I'm sure everybody has the grass and concrete, but everybody else got you guys. I guess we do. That's fine. What do you think? I would agree. I think that there's some good looking papers that are you can tell. I will say it's not we're not moving backwards with adding pavers and brick because a lot of our neighboring communities allow for they list it as paver brick is how they say it.

So Blue Springs, Grain Valley, Higginsville, and Oakrove all allow for paper bricks. So it's classified as pavement brick. Yes. It's not some brick you took off front and some old mountain side. Put it down. Like you said, the base I'm with you on that. All that's out level square, good shape. That's fine. I'm good. Good. I think we're good. Okay. We'll draft we'll try to draft some language when we get through all of this. But um we haven't even got to

do Well, let's go to back to um or we talked about this last time actually. I'm sorry. Driveway coverage and size. We said ingress and egress not to exceed 27 ft in width. Do we want a coverage limit? Yes or no? I know we've already said no last time, but now we have a full commission present. I remember us a long time ago having a conversation about this and this it was long before this all happened. We had a conversation I don't remember why we were talking about it but it was brought up like if someone wanted to pave their whole graduated their whole their whole front yard they could.

Yes. So regardless of that so like my whole thought is I don't know I I don't have a good answer on that. I don't remember why we talked about that. I just remember that happening and it being like they could do it if they wanted to. So you can put two if you got a twocar garage like that or two two driveways and you want to add a third one maybe to park your trailer or your motor home something that you that would be fine. So, we're worried about how wide we're going to get or get you wider.

I guess what we're worried about is if you were to say, okay, we we just said that single family lots have to have four up to four parking spots. What if the depth of that parking spot is only or the driveway is only 20 ft and now we've got a very wide driveway that's short and it's covering up there's no front yard anymore. There's no grass.

Yeah, right. You you also have to be cautious because you have in your codes and ordinances that you're only allowed to have x amount of your property percentage of your property that is not green space to help you control the storm water. But the guy up on the hill, he turned he turned his driveway sideways and put gravel out there parked four cars on there and they got two cars trying to driveway right there. That shouldn't be allowed. Is that Is that done since I thought I thought it was him right? I thought Yeah. Whoever it was, if he did, he's in violation of the

That's right. But I understand, you know, whatever. But but I caution you about about this because as long as it meets the ordinance on the percentage of property, not under roof, not under pavement, then you're okay. Yeah. Okay. is if I want to put four across front of my house but exceeds what I'm allowed by code

to put under payment for roof then I can't do that doesn't matter okay because then you get into the violation of your storm water runoff and management can you that green space next. I also know what that is. I'm not sure. I think it's um section nine.

I think it's 10. Storm water management values for the runoff coefficient shall be selected in the table below. For areas not specifically listed, a composite shall be developed based on percentage of various surface types. So, it's it's really kind of it's a calculation based off of runoff. So, there's not it doesn't in the code say specifically like you can only have 50% of your parcel be paved. Okay.

It's just a calculation though based off of storm water. Like it's a part of the storm water formula. So, I can't specifically say it's X. You just paint up that that's this is this gets into the engineering side of things. You just write in the code like must match the the amount of parking must match the section 10 or whatever that code is or whatever I call it. Can we just refer back to that? I'd have to I can look into it. I'd have to check with our engineers

and and there here there's what I say. If your engineering company is doing your plan reviews, they should get we don't want to step up on that. You need to rewrite rewrite every section of your codes and ordinance. Staff to try and find all that. Yeah. And what's the basis for it? The basis is here. Just two driveables, you know? I mean, you have to drive every house. out of at least two driveways like that and anybody wants anything else I guess be subject to review or something like but I mean how many times you have to get I don't know how to do it there could be circumstances everybody had you know reason

I just also think sometimes about those really big houses you see in the movies where we all you know like 90s we had like the big fountains and my whole front yard was like oh probably yeah circle dry Yeah, like I think about that and so then I like personally I'm like I don't really care. I I guess for me like I don't have an opinion on this. Like I really don't like if you want to pave your whole driveway as long as it's not flooding your neighbors. I don't care what it's doing.

So I mean we got to have some green and it it has to adhere to water to meet that. So just for understanding, so our minimum lot width that we allow today is 70. We have grandfathered lots that are 50 feet wide. If you did four parking stalls next to each other would be 36. So 36 of 70 is over 50% of the front of the house, front of the entire parcel. I would say 51%. So 40% space

that or we do a max by stalls and then then you say you can't go past three stalls that'd be 27 feet. I think you have to have some kind of regulation stop somebody sure enough the front yard or something. I don't know. I think you have to talk somewhere. It's got to be easy enough for us to understand it. Yeah. Easy enough for them to also be part of your regulation. Exactly.

Blue Springs says max width 35 ft. Um, and that's the only one that is giving a legitimate max. No, Blue Springs and Grain Valley. Nope. Just kidding. Blue Springs is the only one that gives a max driveway width. The rest are giving a max ingress egress or throat of driveway width of 35 25 or 35 feet

which we have we have we determined that last time that ingress and egress not to exceed 27 feet in width. 27 foot. That was said maximum width. I guess there was which would be three parking spaces. Blue Springs. Yeah, I have a match personally. That's I just to me it's like you should calculate it based off of your parking parking spot size which is 9 by 20.

So you do 36 not 35. or no it's nine though because they're all nine. So I don't get the 35. I mean again this is not something I've been doing in this fight. So like I'll pretty much like as long as it sounds reasonable I don't really care. I'm just saying if Blue Springs said 35 there's the reason they did it. Well, they have some thick houses. Yeah, I think that's where

I mean I feel like eventually with all the what we're annexing we might see some big houses. We really need bigger than 27, but the entrance is 27. We already said 27 for ingress and egress. So, this would be you drive into your driveway. Can it go wider than ingress and egress? beyond the throat. All right. Well, we'll put we'll we'll throw something in there and see what you guys think. I'll trust you. We're getting there, aren't we? Well, we knocked off two things. Y

All right. The next big one that we really need to get to is the commercial parking spaces. I'll let you through those. local or general or highway for 5281. Well, didn't we do that with this?

I think we went through that last. It's just going to be the same as Can I ask a question? Is a 9 by 20 your standard recognized parking size in Odessa? That is okay. Question is we want to increase the size of that parking space 10 to but from 9 to 10 from 20 to 25 why would you change? So others that the question is is that what you want to do because if 9 by 20 is the recognized standard minimum minimum. Okay.

Right. Go ahead. Do you want to set a maximum or do you want to just say that this is the parking space? I don't. So other towns it's actually smaller 9 by 18 for Higginsville. Yeah, that's according to chat. It's 8 and 12 to 9 ft or 18 by 18 or 20. So I'm going to have because then then you don't have to do a lot of manipulation whether it's commercial or industrial. You have a parking space size which we have. That's what we have now. It's just 9 by 20 across the board. I have a sticker. Yeah, I don't want to. Okay.

If you don't mind. Um because what you get into is like the deal out here at the vault. How many parking spaces are required based on the square foot or type of the occupancy? da da da. It requires x number of parking spaces. Our parking space is 9 by 20. Can you get that in your property? Well, and that's what we're talking about next is commercial parking spaces specifically because we're getting a significant amount of variances to BZA because our park our commercial parking requirement with the 9 by20 ft is nine times out of out of 10 not attainable for commercial new commercial construction. So we have one space per 150 square feet of the building. They're asking you to change your parking requirements to meet the building they want to build.

Correct. Instead of them building the building correct on the property to match what your codes and ordinances say from a staff's perspective are our our I believe that our commercial parking requirement is too stringent right now. It's not attainable. I mean the size you talk about 9 it's 9 by 20 you have to have one 9 by20 space per 150 square ft of building so do you remember what the the uh gym was Jenny what this was there but do you understand what she's asking

because you could say all right instead of it being one 9 by20 for every 150 50 square ft. Maybe that's a 9 by 20 for every 200 right square feet. Yep. So Hagensville and Lexington both require 200 square ft. One space per 200 square feet. You reduce number of spaces. Okay. But keep this parking.

Let's see how the city. I'm sure a lot of them are a lot of them are very specific to the type of business. So they have like a whole section kind of like our zoning section. It's based off of use. I see. So like it'll say like gyms this one by whatever or grocery stores one by whatever. It's based off of use. Yeah, you're right. That be a lot easier to just go off square foot building. Yeah. So what you're seeing so as the city said to get his numbers like what you're seeing is would if we said 200 would that take care of a lot of the issues or or would it just

so for like a 20,000 square foot building that would require 133 really 134 parking spaces and then if we change that it would be would be 100 Right. Yeah. Be it go from 134 parking spots to 100. So I don't like to use specific examples, but the example mentioned already was the gym. 133 parking spaces is a lot of parking spaces. That is a lot. 100 is still a lot of parking spaces. Cut it to like 15.

What? That's what it is now. It's It's 150 now. So raising it would reduce got because I feel like they don't even be like

100 just really smash theirs because of like if you look at my art at all times more than half of them. So they really stop their and I know they're one of the ones that got into the technical uses because for example restaurants need more parking than a lot of them have like go into but retailer so we like a whole another can of worms here where we need to that's totally do go through that's our usage sheet and and that's that's valid the usage may Valley.

Mhm. What if it is Walmart? What if it is table diameter ratio? So, Oak Grove, Grain Valley, and Blue Springs all are based off of use type. So, they have a laundry list of different scenarios. Paganville and Lexington are based off of 200 square feet. So, that we create a subcommittee to create usages and then we can vote on it. That's not us. That's what we're for. Could you say the 200 and then then a building gets going on say can we amend that or change it?

Well, going to 200 would significantly reduce the amount of variances that we're receiving right now. Um but then again then we get into the what is the building going to be used for? Like do we want a Walmart coming in and they're not enough spots on the street either? Well, that's the kind of stuff we should review when they come in. What they're going to put in there if it's not the point of of what

but okay, we're going to have to fix the problem or ain't going to be able to do it. He needs to come up somewhere. We're trying to fix the problem by either upping the square footage requirement or going in and doing like some of the other cities, making a usage table that says, "All right, if you're coming in as a gym, you need X amount of parking spots for that type of use. If you're coming in as a grocery store, you need X amount of spots for that type of

you need something that I think you need." So when an engineer designs or an architect designs a building, normally they have like say for a restaurant, you have a an occupancy

based on fire codes and and how many table seats that you're going to be able to get in there anyway. and they they go through a process of determining then maximum amount of people how many people average per car things like that and if the land allows they put in that many parking spaces. So, is that I mean, is it a problem when they come in with the paperwork to put in a building and you look at it and say that's not enough parking spaces. I mean, I can understand when it's a small piece of land and you're trying to put nice restaurant in or something like that that a lot of people are going to the grocery store or something and you only have enough spaces for 20 cars. That's a problem. But is that ever run into all the time or what you're saying is by it being so low they can't meet the amount of parking spaces required by that.

But do we run into that a lot? We went off of square foot. I mean I mean we are going off square foot but like sorry um I was just looking at like u I think that's what kind of gone off of because I was looking at like the typical size of like a Walmart neighborhood market which is about like 42 42,000 square feet and so then that would mean that they would need about 200 parking spots Is that right?

What was the square footage of the building? 42,000 m. So, I apologize. Currently, we would require 280 parking spots. So, this like 150 to 200. Yeah. And we're at 280. So, yeah. I I feel like the way that we're doing it, how we're proposing to do it, I think would be fine. And then if we wanted to do a usage, we could do it, but for the matter of fixing it now, I'm fine with saying doing that and then we can review a usage later. That just makes more work for

I'm saying if we need to. I'm not saying we need to. I'm just I I think you're on the right track. You got the 200. If down the road you're buying time by doing it this way, if you say in five years we need to create the chart now. You get it done then. You got a lot of business to conduct between now and then. This is pardon me little compared to what you got to do. I think this would just give us the option to where we could like if we had a slow meeting night if that ever happens. we could like slowly work on.

Yeah. Like, you know, then that's something we could debate. Now, I think I'm fine with doing it this way. 200 square feet would still be 210 spots. Yeah. I'm fine with it. I don't even think they need that. For what? For 42,000 like a neighborhood Walmart or something. Yeah. But still a lot. That's going to a PUD. They're not they're gonna have not necessarily let us know what they want us to do as not necessarily. They still have to follow ours. Oh yeah. Yeah. And but they're going to tell you how how they want to say 50.

What are the downside if we go too extreme? So You don't ever have anybody saying you got too many parking spots or not enough or nobody ever comes soon. We need we need more parking spots than what you're asking. What do you say that? Oh well. Oh, you in the from the developer. Yeah. No. No. Um, so 42,000 square feet with at 250 spots required would be 168 as opposed to 210 which is still

so which is still within the they say that they need to check says they need 140 to 200. So like that's still in that window. Yeah, I think 250 is justifiable. I mean this 250 is most of our problem that meant this is we're just establishing a minimum

and then the 250 for 20,000 square foot um that we were talking about earlier would be 80 parking spots which still reasonable. I don't remember how many they ended up actually putting in because they had to get a variance. Pretty much every commercial building that's been put in in the past however many years has needed a variance for parking. I'll go 250 and you know everybody was getting ready to ask. No, she's right. Right.

We're telling them what to do. We can't accept us. They already know what they're gonna put in. It's done. That's how much land they're going to buy and that's of how much build they're going to put on the ground. Oh, that's based on those parking lots, driving lanes between rows of parking. I saw it on Facebook.

I saw that. I just started ask.

Okay. I think that's the other thing on here is aisle width, but that's more related to parking lots. I thought he meant like I don't think that should be that's already established by the live safety code. Yeah. And well, and I think if we add anything, we say what the other said. It says based on angles, stalls served, and traffic flow because there's calculations to get you to that number based on building code and APA and things like that. We could still we might slide that in there to our draft somehow. I think I think we can trust whatever you all are going to write on that.

Does the state council is that? reviews all this time. Yeah, you were you would it would come to you for a vote for your recommendation to the board of alderman. So when the board of alderman votes on it, we'll announce to them that this has been reviewed by um planning and zoning. Their recommendation was approved with a blank blank vote. They can still correct. wants to figure out. I think we have enough information now. If you have a problem, come see us. Okay.

Discuss it like adults. I think we have enough information to put together good a draft. I can't promise you that it'll be on the next agenda, but that's the goal. Good start. I mean, I'm okay with not seeing this for a meeting or two. I just want to get one thing off of our plates because we have we have a lot of things happening. We keep starting new things. Yeah, I'd like to get parking off and then go back to the other things. That's all.

Okay. So, we're going to run a variance correctly to allow Matt to have gravel. That's what we decided. You have to go to BZA for that. Good. Yeah, that's you got to go to BA. I think we could adjourn even though he's not here. This side of the room needs to pick it up. Sorry. Y'all are going to have reopen the meeting. Y'all are going to have to put There you go.

All right. So, the next meeting of the planning and zoning commission is a regular meeting scheduled for Thursday, May 21st, 2022. If there is no further business, I will take a motion to adjourn. Let's adjourn. I have a second. All right. Discussion. No. Cool. All in favor? I. Anybody opposed? Nope. All right.