Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yeah. Hello everyone. Thanks for joining us. Uh we'll open for this special meeting April the 3. All right. Okay. Can you hear us clearly? Hear me clearly. All right. The first regular schedule regular scheduled meeting. Yes. And the first thing we'll do is review the minutes and see if there are any changes to be made. Move for approval. Okay. All those in favor? I. Thank you. So, the first order of business, new business. Kevin, if you will present that, please. I can't hear you, ma'am. You can't hear me? No, you just need to pull that. I'm not sure. Can Can you hear us out there, folks? I don't think something's not right. Yeah. Testing. Testing. Is that better? That's better. All right. The first order of business. Do we need to repeat anything? Okay. Are you good? I'm good. Okay. So, if you would please present that, Kevin. Okay. This is um first item on the agenda is uh a proposal by ActivePlay Adventures Belair LLC. uh and it's for a special or a amusement center that's going to go into uh what is it an existing pet boys. So I'm going to do is kind of skip past the first couple of items on your staff report. The applicant's requesting approval of a special development for an amusement center to rehabilitate the

current motor vehicle sales area for an indoor trampoline park. A special development is also requested for the remaining motor vehicle service portion of the building that was previously approved as a conditional use back in 1993. So, it's a bit that a lot of the performance standards are old and don't apply anymore, but this kind of cleans that up for them. Uh the existing mattress store remains unchanged. Minor changes to the parking lot to address parking and landscape require approval of the site plan and landscape plan for the special development. The motor vehicle service use has existed this location for many years without any in identifiable issue based on town records. Several of the performance standards are not applicable since there is no auto sales proposed and others are satisfied by the existing improvements that are already in place. the amusement center use meets the setbacks for schools and residential. Uh rules for operation are provided in your packet. Uh and um let's see and the those guidelines may be discussed again tonight when you talk about the operation. The Bair Police Department's reviewed the proposal and the rules for operation and has no comments. Harvard County Public Schools is also uh reviewed and has no comments. Both of their responses are in your package. The property owner, Pep Boys, Manny Mo and Jack LLC. I don't know how to get that, but anyway, um own both lots encompassing the subject site and the access from Baltimore Pike and Atwood Road. The retail portion of the Pet Boys motor vehicle uh use has been closed uh for many months and I want to say it should be more like a couple of years I believe. Um and this area which

is 13,674 square feet is proposed to become the trampoline park uh which would be the amusement center. There's a small mezzanine 1,925 square feet uh proposed to accommodate what I thought was office uses and it's not. It's actually going to be a separate like party area and I'll let them explain how they what they're doing with that, but I had assumed it was an office. Most of the time when mezzanines come in their offices, this is to be added. This isn't there at present. The mezzanine itself or is it? It's Yeah, it's proposed to be added. Proposed to be added. Um, so it has amusement and storage uses up in the mezzanine. There's a small amount of storage proposed in again in the mezzanine and the main floor. So there's kind of both places. Uh, we don't count those for parking. They're storage areas. Um, the auto service uses facing South Atwood Road has remained open and is not going to change. The uh site has experienced very little change over the past two decades and the uh existing structures on site are not proposed to be expanded or reconfigured apart from interior reconfiguration. If the proposed uses are approved, the following parking is required. And this is where I'm going to have to make some changes for you. So get your pens ready. Um the metro store is 505 thou uh 55 square feet and that's 20 parking spaces. Um motor vehicle sales uh motor vehicle service is 8,682 square feet. That is 29 spaces required. The amusement center on the main floor is 13,674 ft and that's 68 parking spaces required. The what I'm labeling as office should be labeled as

amusement and that's 1,925 square feet. And instead of being 300 one per 300 square feet, it should be one per 200 square feet. And so in instead of producing six spaces required, there's actually 10 spaces required. So that's the main change. But uh storage on the mezzanine and the floor they were five over the requirement. So they're still they're now Yeah. Hold. Let me uh finish because I've I I kind of correct a a mistake on the on the site plan. So you have those 10 spaces that are required for the mezzanine. You have storage u which is uh 742 square feet which what we did with there was remove two spaces out of the office. Well, it's really now going to be four spaces out of the office because that's calculating on the on the amusement center use. Um what it means is the total is 123 123 spaces required 123 Now the the outline requirement exceeds the parking provided on site by six spaces not five because they had shown if you if you total up all the spaces on site it it's 116 but one of them is mislabeled. It should be 117. And they say that in their outline but I couldn't count that. I couldn't find that where where the number matched the uh um what they were calculating. So it's actually six spaces being requested for parking sharing. The applicants provided a study of the parking demand for the proposed establishments which uh concludes the proposed parking of 117

um is adequate for the existing and proposed uses and they request uh parking sharing. We put down in there a waiver and that's incorrect. uh because you guys can't grant waiverss. Um staff feels the peak demand for parking will be daytime for the auto service and the uh mattress store and then the evening and weekends for the amusement use. So they're the peak demands are missing each other. So that means that they have the ability to share the parking without creating any problems. Um developers made an effort to maximize the existing parking and some with some adjustments to the interior landscape islands. Uh and you'll see that on your the the site plan landscape plan. This allows for some additional spaces and provides for interior trees as required by the code. No change is proposed for the existing storm water management and total disturbances under 5,000 square feet keeps them from having to do any more work on storm water. The applicants planting nine additional shade trees and five additional ornamental trees to satisfy the code requirements for the street tree and interior parking lot planting. Additional shrubs proposed along Baltimore Pike to buffer parking from rightaway uh are also provided. Uh staff considers these improvements satisfactory and has no revisions. I think there was a uh I think Mr. You came up with a different number than what they're showing. Correct. Within a few. Okay. Within some of the shrubs. It was the only change versus 27. Was it the shrubs? It was like 25 versus 27. So what they're showing on the plan graphically is 25. Yeah. Or vice versa.

I think they were showing 25 and they said they're putting 27 I believe. Okay. the difference is only two shrubs. So, um the only change to aside from that, the only change would be the parking sharing under the recommendations would be six instead of five. We don't believe that that change of going from five to six is a problem. And with that, I'll turn over to Mr. Miner Red Ward. Thank you. Uh Tom Miner, five South Main Street, uh Bair, Maryland. Um and I'm gonna have Jay, uh the um user come up and just talk a little bit before I kind of go into the more boring code section of things. Um just talk about the use, what they're going to be doing, kind of their operations, all that kind of more fun stuff. Hello, James J. Riley, uh 1402 Crystal Court, FSO, Maryland. Uh, thanks for seeing us all tonight. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Jay Riley and I spent the last 14 years traveling around the world designing, building, and operating trampoline parks and active play centers. From North America to the Middle East, I've helped bring high energy, joyfilled experiences to millions of families. A little bit, sir. Slow down just a little bit, please. I'm writing everything here. Okay. Thank you. But despite that global success, there's always been something missing. Being able to do this where I live to provide the same fund for my family and friends. For years, I've dreamt of creating something special right here at home for the community that I live in and care deeply about. Literally everywhere I go, whether it's a cookout, the grocery store, or my kids lacrosse games, people ask me the same question. When are you going to build one of these places here?

And the truth is, I've wanted to since 2011. But finding a property that works proves to be a 10-year challenge due to what I call the trifecta. Ceilings, parking, and zoning, the unicorn of real estate. And Bair, like many towns, spaces that check all three boxes simply do not exist. So, with the Pep Boys building sending vacant of retail nearly four years postco, it felt like the right time and place to bring something amazing to life. So, our brokers connected. It checked one of three boxes, ceiling height, and that's what brings us here today. We're asking for your support in helping us create Bair Zone Unicorn by approving our three families requests for zoning and parking relief. Vault Active Play is not your ordinary business. It's a destination. It's a place where families can unplug, connect, laugh, and make memories together. It's about revitalizing a long vacant retail building and transforming it into something vibrant, exciting, and community focused. We're not asking to build something new and disruptive. We're asking to bring new life to what's already there in a way that offers joy and healthy activity to people of all ages, rain or shine, all year long. I truly believe this is exactly what the town of Belair and Harford County need. a safe, clean, and fun space that keeps families local and gives our kids something positive to look forward to. Right now, if Bair families want to visit the trampoline park, they must leave the county. I'm proud to lead this project on behalf of our three families who are deeply rooted in this town with over a century of combined community ties. Thank you for your time, your consideration, and supporting and helping Vault Active Play become a place where families create lifelong memories and where Bill keeps its entertainment dollars local, strengthening the town's economy. Thank you. Yeah, guy. Do you have any questions, I

guess, before you fall asleep? I just I just had one on the safety. Uh I was reading in here. It said maximum of one person on duty. Is that supposed to say minimum? Uh well, originally it was um asked of uh an adult and with current uh employment laws, you can't really classify a uh position by age. Um but we know the obligations. I I take it all the employees would be safety trained. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, um I'm one of the uh long tenur originators of this industry. Uh previously I held 13 locations. Uh had about 1500 employees underneath of me. I sold those in 2019. Um I've already been proactive. Uh I've reached out to the chief and co-chief. We have an agreement um a shared agreement for a no trespass banding order. We've already signed that. I think you might have submitted that to Kevin. Um separately. Uh, I know this doesn't mean much to any of you here, but I I think if you would do a little research on me, you'd understand how safe my parks are, how I really build a culture inside of a park. I realize that uh without having employees that understand my brand and know how to facilitate it as if I would, I'll never be successful. So, it's safety first, culture first. Thank you. How many Go ahead. How many trampolines will be in use? So, yeah. So, actually this park uh my my typical trampoline parks that I held for myself or I build for my customers are 30 to 40,000 square feet. So, this is a fraction of that. We only have uh less than 30 trampolines in this entire facility. The rest is going to be softplay structures for toddlers. Um you know, we're going to have like uh basically everything for anyone. Uh you know, we'll have some adult based games, a lot of interactive. My goal for this location is to be technology and interactive based. I want to get the kids uh from out of their bedrooms and

on their phones and out into the public and being active. So, how many trampolines? Le less than 30 right now. Less than 30. Okay. And then what else will you have? Reference was made to the mezzanine and Yeah. So, those are going to be party rooms for birthday parties. Right now there's there's no premier destination in the town of Bair or really even Harford County to have a birthday party. Um you know you have to really go outside of the county to get a really good experience. So our goal is to be the premier destination for birthday parties. So a family somebody wanted to have a birthday party for their child. They would get one of these rooms and then they'd have access to the trans. Yeah. They'd book a party package. They'd have somewhere right around an hour of playtime and 45 minutes in the birthday party room to celebrate their uh where there'll be concessions or Yeah. So, we'll have a cafe. We'll serve light fair. Everything is uh pre-processed food. So, we'll just assemble everything. So, you'll have a pizza pizza crust that's already pre-cooked. Uh spaghetti sauce, pasteurized cheese, pepperoni. All we do is assemble it and put it through a warmer. Arcade games. Yes, we will have some arcade games there. Yes. That be in the mezzanine. No, that'll be on the floor. Yeah. Okay. Just trying to visualize what this will look like. Well, you're more than invited to our grand opening once we get this approved. You just don't know what I might do. I think we should hold you to that. We'll find something for you to do. So, sir, what is the capacity? I don't know that that has been determined yet. Um I I don't have that as answer. I know. So in this world of trampolines, there's two different capacities. There's equipment capacity and then there's the overall building capacity that's crazy 7 800 people, you know, on the large ones I do. You might know the overall building capacity here, which is maybe less than 250, I would guess, but my equipment capacity is nowhere near

that, which is how I sell tickets and make money. So what's the code? Code would be based on the architectural that the the county would have to give you a fire rating for who can be how many people can be in there. But if it's a big space and there's no trampolines, it would be a huge number, right? So, I don't know what all I know at this time is our egress meets the current fire code and I guess they're waiting to work with you to find out what the official capacity is going to be on the building, but my equipment capacity is a lot less. And again u just to what he was mentioning about there will be a maximum of one employee in a supervisory role but there going to be a number of employees. Yes. So that that basically means a management position. There will be a manager on duty at all times. But yes there'll be plenty of there'll be somebody taking tickets selling tickets working in the cafe. I'll have plenty of uh court monitors that we call them supervising u the patrons while they're on the attractions. But when it comes to a management role, we'll have at least one on duty at all times. Well, it you know, we're going to we're going to hire a purchase of 80 employees to facilitate this location. Yeah. 80. 80. Yeah. 80. And and typically we'll have uh three or four adults. Everything else will be local youth here. We we'll be employing a lot of people inside the town and the county. Okay. Very good. Very good. Thank you. Any more questions? Um, you mentioned it's for all ages. How are you separating adults? I mean, are Yeah. So, industry standard is we separize by age and by size. So, each zone, you know, we have a soft play area that's really geared towards toddlers. You might have a mom and dad climbing around in there guiding their toddler, but that's really an attraction that's, you know, for five and under. Um, the trampolines will be really geared towards everyone, but they'll be sized and spaced out. You know, we'll have a an area here over here for an A group,

an area over here for a B-group, a C-group, and a D-r, which is basically by age. And then our court monitors will step in and separate by size. If you have a, you know, eight-year-old who looks like a 13-year-old, we we'll move them to a different zone. Yeah. The doors, you know, you're looking at that long portion of the building and um I guess that's where they would take cars in for for Yeah. So, that's going to change. The current doors that we have are two uh three-foot doors, double doors. They're actually going to go to four foot wide doors to meet the fire egress. Uhhuh. Yeah. And each one of those bays, the bays are on the other side. We're going to put a demising wall between the two spaces. So, they they'll become two different units. Uh each with their own storefront. Very good. So, those bays will be utilized for another business or they boys. Yeah. They're going to move over to which they currently are a service only. Okay. Good. And what will be your hours of operation? Yeah, so we we have peak hours and non- peak hours. Uh typically, uh during our non- peak hours, we get going about 4 in the afternoon. Um and we'll go to maybe 8 or 9:00 at night, depending on what the business dictates. We'll soon find that out. Um we'll be open uh pretty much all day on Saturday and most of the day on Sunday. And then we'll have our peak hours, which are in the summertime, which we'll we'll host. Um we'll get the kids off the street. They'll be inside our facility keeping cool and jumping and having a great time. Will you eventually do teams competing? Anything like that ever? Teams competing get into No, insurance doesn't really allow for um teambased sports. Um I mean we will have individual self-paced competitions with the interactive technology that we have. You'll be able to see your top score and your name on a leaderboard and it'll you know someone knocks you off the leaderboard, you got to get back in there and win your spot again. Will there be like uh trainers to um maybe like the teenagers? So we call we call them court monitors once again um in

industry not really allowed to train anyone. We kind of guide them u but we'll be more than helpful. Yes. Nice. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? I just got one question and this might be for Kevin actually. Uh is I didn't see anything in here on signage. Is there going to be a new sign out on There is. It's a separate application that goes straight to uh department of planning. So the road fun sign will stay the same. Uh just the big face will be divided. It'll be pep boys on one side, vault active play on another. Uh there will be a new sign on the storefront that will meet code um already engaged uh pletes and happy to grace and they've already worked on that and reached out to Kevin's office and as soon as we get this approved we'll get on to that permit. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Uh just one way I still confused about the number of employees. I think we do need to put into the requirements that a minimum not a maximum a minimum of one adult is on the Can we say management not adult I don't want to get sued for employment law. Sorry, you're good. You don't need I'm not sure we really uh I'll I'll discuss that with council, but um I think an adult need Well, you guys need to decide, but I think an adult needs to be on premises at all times. Be 18 or more, right? That's it. That's that qualifies as an adult, 18 years old or more. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you would We'll call them managers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I picture a lot of young people working there. Yeah. teenagers, but anywhere from what 16 to 20, but at least one of them should be of majority age. There will be a manager on duty at all times. Yes. Well, it's up to you guys. You have to decide. I you have to decide whether or not the manager don't discriminate against uh it's not this is not

something that enters into employment law here. This is entering into your requirements for to get approval for a special development. So, um I don't know. Do you have anything? Um I mean I think the board has can uh make a requirement that at least one adult over the age of 18 is on the premises at all times. This is I think it falls under the health public safety aspect of it because obviously a minor in charge of a I mean how many children do you expect to be there on average on any given day per hour or on the during a day? During the day I mean we might see 500 guests a day. That's a lot of kids. So I mean to say okay the legal age to work in the state of Maryland is as I understand is 15. So a 15year-old in charge is a little concerning. There will not be a 15year-old solely in charge. I promise you we will have a manager on duty at all times. We're going to assert that the manager on duty at all times needs to be at least 18. It could be well assumed. Yes. We we pull that into the approval. Yeah. Because we think that's important. Okay. I think a trained Yeah, that's where I was going with my question before. A trained person on duty that's responsible adult. I got a bunch of grandkids. We'll host them. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now for the boring part. So for the boring part. Sorry. Um time. All right. Well, we'll we'll keep this relatively uh simple. Um and I'll just kind of point to the site. Um so, as kind of noted, Pep Boys will be still

operating out of the bays on the side here. Uh and then there'll be a party wall going across. Hopefully, you guys can see the mouse up top there. Um there'll be a party wall kind of roughly dividing approximately here. Um so that then the indoor trampoline park can be on this side and then the pet boys will continue to operate over here. Um we we've added 19 spaces uh in total um to comply with or to try to meet the additional parking requirements. Those spaces were primarily added in this location here and then we added an extra space up in this location. The typo that uh Kevin was talking about is this number here was four and it should be five. Um so right right there that was the amount of spaces and everything else noted was fine. It's just that that number there was was incorrect. Um wasn't that six Kevin? Wasn't that six? Well, it's uh he's noting that that was should have been labeled as five and that what they're asking to share in parking is six spaces. Okay. Right. Sorry. So that's where the the the total gross differential was was this label said four and it should have said five. So that's why we're 116 versus 117. Um we are requesting a six space um shared parking with the U mattress store right here. Um they've been in place for quite a number of years as well and pretty stable. We provided a traffic study um for um parking reduction um that basically just indicated hours of peak operation for the the mattress user and as we know mattress stores are not heavy parking users. Um, so, uh, when we enter into the lease agreement, we understand that we'll be, um, we'll be sharing that parking, but there's not a need for there's no overlap and there won't be there'll be still enough parking spaces to, um, comply with our

needs for the site. Um, some of the other things as far as turning movements go, so what we did was we added parking or added additional impervious here. So, then you can a loop in this location. So, it used to be there was an island right here and we added additional parking and placed a new island right here. And then now we're looping around uh the bottom here and and striping these spaces. Um, and our net impervious was is below zero because what we did was there's additional this drive in here is larger than required. And so we're going to be removing some impervious in this location um along this drive was like 29 ft and we're bringing it down to 22 feet with um uh because it's a one-way entrance kind of coming off of uh Route One. Yeah. I never knew it was oneway entrance. I think I've gone out the wrong way and gone out several times. So Tom, the uh there's no restricted parking. In other words, the the trampoline park guests may park over by the pep boys tire place. Park anywhere there. Yeah, there's no restrictive parking. We're just sharing the parking and the needs. And so we we did that parking study uh with the traffic engineer and they basically used the um trip generation uh manual, the IT uh manual to determine when peak generation of uh a mattress store or furniture store would be utilized and it showed that there was definitely not going to be an issue when it came to overlap of uses between the two two users. Did they um enter into any observation about the number of people that park overnight at Pep Boys for service the next day? So, our request was shared parking

between um the mattress store and the trampoline park. As far as Pep Boys, their their dropping procedure, they also have parking requirements. Um and we're meeting those parking requirements. Um Kevin, do you wanna I don't know if you want to I just I just know that you know if you go over there at night there's probably they they do drop off I think so what I've heard is they do drop off so that then in the morning they can come and pick up and start doing their oil changes and tire changes and then whatever else they they do in there. Um so uh it didn't really come into a factor because we're asking between the mattress store and that. So, uh, we're kind of the the oil loop built portion we've kind of kept in compliance and we're not changing anything for that. Um, so going to before I go into kind of the performance standards of the trampoline park, um, we just to kind of note, you're correct. There is there should be 27. Um, and zoom in here just so you're not uh this corner here, we can add two extra shrubs. It looks like there was just a miscount on the amount of um shrubs on the corner here. So, we can add those two extra shrubs just as you enter in on the on the right side. Um just to note that the uh otherwise the shade trees, the um all the associate landscaping, we basically are bringing those back up to the current standards is the goal. So um let's see uh going into um just the general overall performance standards for um um for the uh amusement entertainment um per section 165.53.

See um so identify any hazardous materials or explosive materials that be stored on site and describe measures be taken to ensure public safety. We have no explosive or hazardous materials that we'll be storing on site like that. So uh that doesn't apply uh to us. Um and then for um amusement centers and indoor recreation facilities, uh the amusement center shall be not closer than 300 ft to a school building. Um, and also not closer than 100 feet to a residential use. Uh, we're further away than than 300 feet for the school nearby. And then also we're further than 100 ft from um any residential use. Um the uh Jurassic putt putt is closer than us. They're they're even further closer to it. So we're we're pretty far away from the school um for that use. Um and as noted, we also have signed a um an agreement with the police department noting that they can come on the premise and if there's any kind of issues, they can they can they can uh um trespass, you know, ask, you know, ask people to immediately to to leave. So, they allowed to trespass people if there's any kind of issues immediately without having to ask for permission. Um uh continuing on um uh planning commission uh with hours of operation and use for the planning commission. Um Jay is uh gone over um kind of hours of operation for the um for the facility kind of peak hours and non- peak hours. Um and then going into general planning commission guidelines. Uh as noted, review the peak hours, discuss the um adult aspect of,

you know, needing an adult or a manager um on the premise at all times. And then um as we discussed, the uh premises of the site is 13,674 ft uh including the mezzanine space. um parking uh per the section of code. Um just so I can enumerate it here just for the record per section 165-51B5. Uh we're requesting uh six parking spaces to um be shared parking uh between the mattress user and the um trampoline park. Uh and then the last kind of thing in the staff report noted that we would need to have an agreement set forth between the two parcels um and we would assemble that and get it recorded to ensure that both storm water access all of that is in place. I don't think at least in our research that there's anything like that currently in place. I haven't seen anything in place. You would have to probably talk to Manny Mo and Jack. Yeah. So, if there isn't something in place already recorded, then we would assemble and and put that and get it recorded and have uh Kevin and Liz review that and make sure that everything's covered. The this site has been remained almost unchanged entirely since its construction back in the early 90s. Manny Mo and Jack have been there since then. Um and the mattress store has been there for quite a while. So, I don't know how many years, but it's been there for quite a while. So, um just getting some things back, paperwork back in order to the current standards of the day. How about the agreement for the maintenance? So, for the for like the pond, the parking. So, currently it's under the same ownership. So, both parcels are

owned by um by Pep Boys, the Pet Boys entity. So, that's why nothing's ever really got been assembled. Um, and there's really been no work on this site since its construction and probably back in the 90s, they weren't as concerned as we are nowadays for that. So, um, the agreement would really just be linking both parcels up to have shared use, uh, and shared maintenance costs. Yeah, Tom, I noticed one dumpster location. Is that correct? Uh, correct. Just on the north side. Yes. And that that dumpster needs to be screened. Is that dumpster already screened? Yeah, it's current I think it's currently already screened. Was up there today and there was dumpster sitting out in the parking area there. I don't think they have I beg your pardon. I I need to hear what you don't have. I I don't think they have the fence. I think they have it dumpster. It probably needs to be repositioned so you can use the gates. The dumpster just needs to be screened, the entire dumpster. And and we're fine with that. Sorry, I'm just checking to see because I thought it was I just thought there was a fence around it when I checked it last. Um, but that's that's totally fine to us to put a screening around it. Okay. Sometimes what happens is they put a dumpster location in with an enclosure and they find out they need more. This might actually run into that problem. That could be. Yeah. And certainly now with I think the trampoline park is going to generate a lot of trash, garbage, paper cups, napkins, paper. So whatever dumpsters are on site will need to be screened. Sure. You may we may want to put that into the That would be fine. Does that go in the special

development or is that the site plan? Site claim. And I just have one more question for you, Tom. Sure. On the lighting, I see that one light's going to be uh relocated. Are you agreeing all the lighting u elimination changes or anything like that that would have to be approved? So, we were actually discussing that relocation of that light. We were thinking we might just keep it in place. um it sits it doesn't obstruct anything um to really to avoid having to do a lumen study and all this other other stuff. We were talking about just potentially just leaving it in place. Um there's no real point to remove it. It's kind of sitting right where the the cars will be parking and even somewhat prevents having to do people doing cutthroughs and being a little more reckless than we would like. So we might just keep that in place unless Kevin has any issue with that. Where is this at? It's this light right here. So, you want to keep it so that it's in between the two parcels that it's sitting on a still have to be on a pedestal. Concrete pedestal. Yeah, we would. I mean, we could put a little curve piece around it if we want or something like that. Like a three-foot concrete pedestal so it doesn't get hit and knocked over. Okay. So, just reset it and put a Yeah. Okay. Um otherwise, I I have no problem with it being in a parking lot. Well, I guess do we care one way or another? Is there any you have to run new electric? Yeah. The new location and new lighting and everything else. So, we probably want to keep it there. It's just is it keep it cleaner. Um, so that was that was kind of our discussion of does it create a better product. I like it there because it's right at the front of the uh facility. It's going to provide light for people using the facility. But we'll have to add that needs to be buffered. Well, no, you're we're talking about the light. The the um the enclosure for the dumpster needs the dumpster need all the dumpsters on site need to be enclosed,

right? So, no. Well, you were mentioning this. I I was thinking you were talking about the Yeah. reinforcing something for the light. When you see the light, most lights that are sitting out in the parking lots, they'll sit on a three-foot concrete pedestal, right? That ensures that if somebody hits it, it's not going to fall over. So, and it'll do more damage to the car than it will the the light. So, that's what we would require if the light stays where it's at. Okay. But in general, we aren't expecting to upgrade all of the heads and such. Um, and we can reset the the current lighting to that pedestal. That's a good question. And I'll have to check out that the dumpster. It looks like there's an overhang and it looks like it's enclosed from from aerial views. It I think what you're talking about is the existing dumpster is enclosed. Oh, there's one is talking about is there might be another dumpster that somebody's added that's sitting right outside the the existing one. Right. Okay. All right. Well, they'd have to get that cleaned up. That's just an overall compliance. Yeah. either take it away or screen it. Sure. Sure. Sorry, I wasn't I was I was like I could have sworn there was a Yeah, I I should have described it better. Okay, thank you. Uh, anyone else wish to speak? Any opposition? Yeah. Any opposition? Okay. Thank you all. Thank you. Okay, Phil, you want to take this away?

Oh, let he's good at that. Yeah, he's good at We're ready. We're ready. No other questions. No question. They rely on you. I have a question. Oh, we'reing the special development. The special development since it was a conditional use back in 1993. We're just re-upping it as a special development now. Two two pieces. Well, I'm ready to read. I've had cataract procedure this Monday, so I can see a little better now. All right, Phil. At least at least one eye works. Take it away. Give it all you got, Phil. All right. First thing we have to do and bear with us there's a lot of this stuff is just procedural but it needs to be done. The first thing we have to do is um acknowledge that the um um submission is consistent uh with the proposed uh the development is is is consistent with the town code 165-119 out of the 2022 comprehensive plan. That's a motion folks. That means it needs a second. Yeah. Good. All those in favor? I I I. Now, when we get to the special development, there'll be two pieces of this. One for the amusement and one for the motor vehicle service. And we have to read all these things into the record. Special development of the of for the amusement center must be based upon the following findings of fact. the applicant has adequately demonstrated

the proposed use meets the performance standards in section 165-53C addressing the following performance standards. A. The amusement center is not located closer than 300 ft to any school building exclusive of temporary structures and not located within 100 ft of any adjoining property which is in an R district. B. A written plan setting forth acceptable rules for the operation of the establishment outlining procedures to preclude lording regulations regarding the use of the estab establishment by school age children and procedure for the enforcement of the rules has been submitted by the applicant and the Bair police department has no comment. The planning commission may impose conditions and restrictions as it may deem necessary to ensure that the use will be compatible with and will not adversely impact the adjacent area. Such conditions and restrictions are as follows. Uh first the uh hours of operation as delineated in the staff report have I don't think we have an hours of operation. They would have to either answer that or you don't have to require hours of operation if you don't wish to. Uh I've got them here somewhere. Yeah, the hours of operation are in here. Are they? Yes. In the application. Yes. I saw. All right. If if you'd referenced their application or the um must have been in the security Yeah. No, I saw them. Yeah, it's a whole section on operation. That was submitted by the applicant. Special development use change responder

to special development use. So they reference the reference their performance standards. We will ref okay hours of operation. We will we will reference the special development use change response uh in the staff report. Okay. Okay. Now the one that we do want at least I want to add at least one manager of majority age be present at all times the facility is in operation. is okay. That's that's Well, we can unless we have an objection to that, we'll we'll the age go with that. Do we actually need to state the age? Well, a majority age is a legal term. Yeah, correct. So, age and majority. I mean, it's inferred 18. Okay. Yeah, that's good enough for us, right? 18 or 75. Probably way better off with 18. Sure. Okay. And that's covers the special development from the amusement side. Now continuing still under special development of the motor vehicle service. Probably should vote on this one. Separately. Okay. I second the motion. All those in favor? I I Okay, we're on a roll. Now, approval of the motor vehicle service is based upon the following findings of fact that the applicant has adequately demonstrated the proposed use continues to meet the performance standards of section 165-53C addressing the following performance standards. All sales and installation facilities operations shall be conducted within a wholly enclosed building. The applicant has indicated outdoor storage areas and screening of such areas. Neighborhood properties are

protected from sight illumination, noise, and odor. Noise is regulated to meet the control of noise standards as specified by the state of Maryland. The proposed use is not located abuing residentially zone land. There is no area of the lot devoted to vehicle display. The applicant has provided information regarding the number and type of vehicles permitted on the lot. A safe, identifiable driving lane is provided within the parking lot. Landscape islands, curbs, and signs are used to clearly distinguish the parking from loading, delivery areas, and driving lanes. Adequate space is provided on site for service and delivery vehicles. Turning areas are provided to avoid dead-end parking situations. Outdoor storage or service areas are located on the side or rear yard and screen from public view. Proposed use is not a filling station. Building facades are existing and no change is proposed. Vehicle display vehicles display for sale is not proposed. Second motion. All those in favor? I I I You want some relief here, Phil? Go right ahead, Pete. We'll get into the site plan now. At a minimum, approval of the proposed indoor trampoline park and revised auto repair establishment is conditioned on the following. One, prior to building permit application, submission of a final site plan for signature incorporating comments from this staff report and comments from Beller Department of Public Works dated March 26, 2025. Harford County Public Schools dated March 26, 2025. Police Department dated March 20th, 2025. Uh number two, a sharing of six

parking spaces for the proposed development with the existing mattress store based upon the testimony of the applicant and number three execution of access storm water management parking easements between the two properties. Uh now the dumpster screening is this where we would you could one of the things is it was somewhat addressed in the motor vehicle. Uh but if you want to add it to this one you can. No. Okay. If it's already addressed I wouldn't mind. You wouldn't mind it? Okay. I like and uh number four that uh screen a screened dumpster for trash refues will be um is required will be required and submitted to the uh uh department of planning staff for approval. Okay, I'll accept the amendment. Do we have a second to this? Phil's All those in favor? I care. You want to do the landscape plan? Landscaping. Landscape plan. Oh wow. Yeah. Whole thing. The old. Oh my gosh. Just take a deep breath. Yeah. The land landscape plan. prior to building permit application submission of a final landscape plan for signature incorporating comments from this staff report. Second. All those in favor? I I got yourself forward to it. Thank you. Hey, it's the first time you got an applause a long time. The last time we did it was Alcraftraft Brewery. They're they're gone now. So, hope these folks

last well. They lasted a while. Remember, you know, the guys who bought glass from Oh, yeah. Excuse me. We're going to continue this meeting. So, if you could please exit and have your conversations then. Thank you. Name over there was street and of course that was that was Dr. street son that had the brewery. But Well, my file has a lot. [Laughter] That's proceeding over there. Oh, you all I sit in the local restaurants all the time around. I would have loved to been a bartender. I went back. Okay. What's going on? What's going on here? Okay. Um, do you have any questions about existing projects? Uh raising canes is moving along. Yeah. Yes. Uh last time raising canes you had mentioned the sign that and I know that people when I say people someone cut the original but the signs keep falling over in bad weather. They need to put sandbags on. I even took a picture. I'm like how do they not know to put sandbags on there? One of

the things they're flipping over and hopefully they won't flip this way which could happen. Yeah. So, they should sandbag it or put weight. I think those containers at the bottom are meant to fill with water to make them heavy. I don't know if they've done that or not, but they should put sandbags on them and keep them from kick or something and it falls over or something. Are they like architect and mortgage signs that are sitting out front? Is that No, no, no. This is on this is on Atwood. It's a temporary fence. It's a construction fence. Oh, okay. And then they have their sign, you know, the cane's sign, vinyl sign wire tied to it. Okay. And that's been staying up. No one's cut that down. I know the first time they were all cut because you could see they were cut, but the whole fence keeps falling over. Construction fence. They need to secure it better. Okay. Cuz that's a public sidewalk right there. So there's a whole story you can go online to real to hear about raising Kane and the guy who started this and the unbelieable amount of Yeah. Good. Okay. Um, anything else? Atwood's coming along uh down there at Thomas Street. Oh. Oh, it's looking really nice. You guys going to yell at me for that? Uh it's going to be um just give it another month and they should be out there uh taking care of all the asphalt and getting that I was concerned about the drainage right there at Thomas and Atwood during rain. If you come out there anytime it rains it's always flooded there. I was hoping I know they haven't black topped it yet but I'm hoping they address the drain by putting a great all the way across there possibly or regrading it. I I've actually drove through there with our

DPW and he did say that they were making changes to some of the proposed um uh plans because one of the problems that they were encountering was that the the drainage was not making it to the inlet. And so there are going to be some changes that you're going to see probably in the next month is to make sure that all of these drains are accepting all of the water that's required that there's no low spots without any drainage. And that's something that um likely will change what you're seeing out there right now. Yes, there's a couple will probably take that out for us. There's a couple of places where we had shown what we call extensions of curb and uh that go out to somewhat either protect the cars that are parked but also to uh reduce the crossing for pedestrians so you're only crossing a certain amount. Well, some of those because of turning vehicle, you know, turning radius have had to come out of the design. Uh, and one of them is at um Kelly and Thomas and uh another one is at Archer. Yes. Right. And then there's a couple more that when they move into the commercial portion that they're going to take out too. Uh the ones that are um that are at um Hayes, most of those should stay except for I think one's going to Right.

Yeah. Well, and we were trying to also create this connection to Kelly Fields that people didn't have to, you know, they they could ride your bikes and jog and, you know, and eventually go through Kelly Fields all the way to Ma Trail. That of course is not our responsibility. is the county's responsibility. They if they want to continue that connection, they you know they need to do so. I was surprised. Yeah. Where all the feral cats live too. Are they going to fix it? That that turning radius on Thomas into Kelly because I mean they did a real nice job. Everything's all bricked up and everything. Yeah, they already bricked it. So now they're going to have to tear it up or tear it out or how I know that there's going to be changes to that corner. I couldn't tell you what it is because our DPW is the one who supervises construction, not planning, but u we just create all the headaches for DPW. It's very lovely to see the brick walkways. That's that's very impressive. Yeah. No, I don't think that those are going to stay, but I will talk to that. And one section they relayed in the last two days three times. Really? Yeah. That must be us making them do that because I'm not It was all done the other night and then they took part of it up yesterday and I see they got part of it up again today. I'm like what are they doing? I know one thing is that we're pretty strict when it Do they have a site inspector? Do we does the town have an inspector go out? Well, uh both we inspect it and the county inspects it. Really? So, yeah. But the uh one of the things that people are pretty strict about is handicapped access. So, if if they're not meeting code, they're gonna they have to tear it up and re report

it. So, they report uh two sections of sidewalk already to totally tore it out and reort it. Yeah. Now, that's normally if it's a sidewalk, it's probably us making them do it rather than uh I don't know if it was cracked. I I haven't walked it. My neighbors all walk it. My daughter walks it. I don't know how she she didn't notice any cracks in it. She's been looking. Yeah. She'll let me know if she sees something wrong. Anything else? Question. The um the approval date, the expiration date for Harford M is listed as 52 26. Is that right? 52 of what? 26. I think that's right. I Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to get back with you. I think it's January. Could be. Okay. I know some of those are put in. Kathy puts them in. Okay. And I'm not sure whether on that chart, some of them are automatically generated off the building permit and some of them we put in by hand, especially the expiration dates. So, um Kevin, I just had one one question. I saw there was fencing around 510 Johnny's demo. De Oh, is that all we know? It's just demo. Yeah. Yeah. Anything coming in or I don't know anything else. I know down. Are they tearing the whole building down? We got an application for a demo permit. Now, I don't know whether they're tearing the whole thing down or a portion of it because it doesn't run through planning. It runs through public works, but yeah. No. Uh 510 Johnny's. I know. I saw the someone broke in the back door and I called the town police out there and they came out. I don't

know what they found, but someone definitely broke into the back of it. I was going to say that um so we've been working on a vacant properties registry legislation for with ECDC and I spoke to um I guess he's Sergeant Frell with BRPD and asked him to help which he agreed to do and um he gave us some feedback and he and I asked him what property was the worst one for vandals. He said 510 Johnny's. It's It looked like one of the roofs was taken off the casino up on the deck. It's totally gone. I know someone took that. They had So, there's a homeless encampment in the woods across the street. If it gets too cold or too hot, they break in and then the kids get in there and they also break in and party in there. That's what he told me. We did receive an application. Oh. Um, actually two. One is to review an extension request for the residential portion of Harford Mall. And the um other one is to uh are you familiar with the property that's next to Courtland Hardware? That's a big grassy area. They want to uh build a Vietnamese restaurant and a uh mail slot there. Wow. And a male nail. Nail. Yeah, he said, "Hey, does that fit into the town plan?" Uh, just north of just north of um of uh Courtland you on Bond Street. On the other side of the street. Yeah. Yeah. By the church. So, I'd love to get some good Vietnamese food. So, and I understand there are going to be two murals next year, too. There's one at Alisand Park and then one at the Music Land. Really? Because I I knew we were asking for one to be done at

Alisanne, but I didn't know that someone had acted on it. Yeah. Could be. Yeah. Whoa. One hour. Liz hit it on it before I brought it up, but that was one of my questions I had about projects on abandoned properties. How's the town have authority over abandoned product uh uh properties that have vacant and abandoned? I know like gr if your grass is high, they can come out and tell you got to cut your grass and that kind of stuff, but how about abandoned buildings? No one's living in them. But if it's not, then the town has authorities. Department of Public Works would take action and sometimes what they'll do is well, typically what they do is send a letter. Yes. So then I mean, it's sad to see all these empty buildings in Bel Air. I mean, it'd be nice to bring in new businesses, small businesses. I know that's everybody feels that way, but that's the idea behind the legislation. Correct. take those vacant and abandoned buildings and um make it so that there is a price associated. Yes. And there's standards if they are vacant. Now, I'm going to as

I told Kevin and ECDC like take right off the map residences. There is little control that the town can have over someone's residence, right? But the commercial businesses is not held to a higher standard. So what the idea is that a several municipalities do this. They do a vacant property registry and you have to put it on the registry and that provides the town with contact information in case a place catches fire, is vandalized or stuff like that. And they pay a fee every year to keep that property on the registry. And then there's other criteria about maintenance and security and and stuff like that. So that's something that I think has been kind of rolling around for what, like six months now. Yeah. So yeah, that was one reason why I was so excited about Hickory Flats because of the rejuvenation that it would create for Main Street. I think I understand. You can still Can you go after? Yes, the property owner is still responsible under the code to maintain uh maintenance of the property. It's just when you're taking vacant properties, you want to separate them. If you're doing like a registry and you're charging a fee and that kind of stuff with residences, no municipality manages it that closely just because it's residences, but commercially, yeah, it's in a different category, if you will. It depresses me. So, Kenmore Apartments across from it just it is just wrong. It's not right. And I it just you know, you you [Music] respond depending on the environment that you're in. And those are just atrocious. And there

they are, you know, such importance in their location and so forth. I I just wish that there'd be something that could get that under control. There's no shrubbery. There's no trees. Nothing. Nothing. But a it's I find it despicable. land is the word comes to mind. Even though it's passive income, it's still include that not in that kind of context because it's a residential. So, you've got a a tenant there who is living there and residences are considered whether they're rented or whether they're owned to be more protected under the law. I understand. I guess what I'm saying is from a vacancy. Yeah. From a Yeah. Correct. Occupy. Yeah. But you get into like obviously with a commercial business you they're either there or you don't or they're not right. Um you're not generating any e economic development, you know, from that perspective. With a residence, something can happen and and you start getting into a little too much of people's business. Okay? like if it's an elderly resident, maybe you know, one went to nursing home, one went to um assisted living, something like that to inquire about that. Excuse me. It it gets a little dicey. Okay,

one more question. One more question. At the last meeting, I know we talked about they're going to tear Macy's down, obviously. Um, and they talked about putting phase three pads. Are they going to Is that something that's going to headed your way? Phase one be completed before phase three and phase three. That's a problem that uh council and I have had for the last few months. They're not finishing what they start. No. Yeah. because I understand they promised that there was a grocery store going in there and I and I believe they believed that at the time. I really do because Amazon I believe is the one who chartered to go in there. Was discussed at the concept and not marketing strategy there. Yep. Yep. would have been a beautiful pickle ball court. I know. That's what I was thinking. Chicken and I don't think the ceilings would be high enough. I know folks were trying to get a sports venue to go in there and they still are as far as I know. But that would be nice, but I don't know if it's big enough for a large sports venue. Now, Kevin and I have had multiple conversations. Um, I

am happy to report after 11 months of back and forth in multiple attorneys. All parties have now executed the approval agreement and a development agreement for phase two. So, that's sitting on my desk. They've asked me to hold it in escrow. what was called a hold in ascrow uh pending uh the subdivision plan for the apartments being uh recorded and then CDP North is going to be purchasing that subdivided lot out. So, um I'm holding on to that, but we have had conversations about um you know, certain time frames coming up that may not be extended if certain things aren't done and certain applications can be filed, but it's not going anywhere until some other things get done. So, we're we're kind of I think on the same page, right, Kev? two years. Uh there it'd be two years this January January 4th. They want to extend that approval for another year. Even though this is something we warned them about that you guys might not be it's still good to January. They don't think they're going to get I guess under construction until after that. They have been hung up by a sewer issue. That was not their fault. Wasn't the town's fault. Um the town wanted them to tie into a 12-inch line across Baltimore Pike um on Tollgate Marketplaces property and um that sewer very shortly was supposed to be probably in 1979 conveyed to the town and it never was. So, there was a bit of back and forth, back and forth, but we got the sewer. Um, that is going to be accepted

by the board, we believe, uh, town commissioners on Monday. Um, so they have their sewer line now to hook in. That was a little bit of a hiccup that no one anticipated um, that we were going to have. There was just no one year a one year. Why are they worried that they might I'm not sure. I I'm not sure either. Um, I did kind of we did warn them and said, you know, the planning commission may say go go away and come back later and you just going to have to come back later. Um, but you guys don't expire until I don't even know why we would be entertaining. It's if they've made the applica, they sent me the letter today. um they you know I'm kind of required to provide it to you but it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to extend it now or you want to extend it you know or tell them to come back in November. Anybody have I don't recall this ever coming up before getting started. I I was told that they were planning on closing because I keep at we we have like maybe bi-weekly, tri-weekly legal team meetings. So, it's me and all the other lawyers on a team's call. Um I yeah I I kept saying when are we closing on CDP on the on the lot because you know that's the precipice for the subdivision plan to get approved and recorded and then for our agreements to get done. So

I keep pushing them and the last that they finally gave me an answer was by the end of this year they are intending on closing on that lot. That's what I was told. So, no, but that that's at least one step in the right direction because they got to buy it. My main's concern is wrapping up phase one, which is the shops at Harford Mall. That is going to happen like that timeline's in September, Kevin, for the bonds. September. Well, don't make any decisions right now. You have to wait till Yeah. Let them make make their pitch, so to speak. Yeah. [Laughter] I mean, the message was I thought I thought it was a pretty consistent message of you need to make some progress on some of these previous things before we get too excited about phase three. Yeah. Yeah. And they they're coming with phase three. They have yet to submit their traffic, but that'll probably happen in the next week or so. When when do you anticipate them? Did they tell you when they were going to submit? I mean, I'll find out. They want to submit next month, but they don't even have they haven't even submitted traffic yet. That's at least two more months, I wouldn't say. So, yeah. Okay. Remind me again. Phase two is is are the apartments. Phase two is the apartments. Phase one is shop to Hartford Mall and then phase three would be where Macy's is sitting, right? There's such logic to

finish phase two, which is going to bring in Yes. phase one first, right? something. Yeah. That would come in with their next submission because I've seen versions of that. So, they are working on it. That one I can tell you. Yeah. that would require them as I remember talking to somebody in there said they had their lease to 27 through the end of 27. I can't remember who I was talking to though. I thought they said at the at the concept meeting that they would have all they will own the mall without leases in 28. Is that what you recall? That's what I recall. I think that would be I'd love to see that. grocery stores. Maybe we can get a movie theater to come back in there. I'm just saying. I think that I think they have to finish phase one and then if they put the apartments in, just think how that's going to bring that grocery store and it's going to change thing. maybe than the the requirement for the pickle ball

and so forth and so on. I don't understand there. Let me ask let's just say they showed up this summer with phase three when you say go away. What you could do is is mean is you could condition your approval and say because you guys have pretty wide latitude, right? You could say, "I like this, but you got to fix that, but we're not moving this forward until this gets accomplished." You could do that. You can just table it. You could do that. Um I got to check the code to see whether or not you got an automatic approval. If it's They don't have an automatic approval, right? What for the extension? No. If it's tabled too long, they would have to agree uh for I don't know. We got to look at that. You see what I'm saying? Like if it's tabled for more than x amount of days, you like I think I don't think there is. I think in the HPC has an automatic approval. I don't think the planning commission does. I think it there's no link. I think HPC has like a 60-day limit. Not the planning commission. Okay. So, I we'll we'll look at that. Okay. Yeah, we we can take a look at that and see and see what your options are. You know, I I don't want to pre-prime you for a particular obvious decision. You guys have to make you know, you know, a decision based on what they prevent. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, we'll check it out for sure. um before you even get there. It's likely phase three would be treated somewhat the same as phase two, which means you would discuss, talk about things, make sure that you know your opinions are clear to council and myself and then we would there would be an opinion that would be written so that uh

it kind of covers everything. And then the next meeting you would uh move, you know, you would be in a position to approve it. and we could approve it but with a requirement that they complete one and two if we chose to do that. Yeah. And you can have a a date certain with that. You're not going to get your this that until you've done what is associated with phase one. We've already been pre-priming that really anybody before Hex. Corvettes. So my question is how many it's like 4200 I was thinking around 43,000 but that's what I was thinking 14 140 something thousand according to the paperwork torn down build. No, there there's a lot more commercial out there than there is residential as far as square footage. Um but the um what sticks out my mind is they can get rid of about 108,000 before they start to hit that 50% requirement. Yeah. I can't remember what you going from memory here. Yeah. apartments, right? Oh, yeah. Once they put if they did that and then added the apartments, then they would be over their 50% almost automatically. So, I think what you're looking at there for apartments is going to be it. Uh, unless they build a lot

more commercial out there. And you could see commercial with apartments above it, you know, which I think would be appropriate, but All right. All right, guys. Motion to adjurnn. Yes. Second. Motion. Okay. Those in favor? Hi. What you