Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the regular scheduled board of supervisors meeting February 3rd, 2026, 3:00 start. And with that, uh, Mr. Williams, would you lead us in a prayer, please? Let us pray. Gracious God, our father, the one who made the heavens and the earth. Father, we come once again, Father, to this brick building. Father, in what we call courthouse, Father, once again, we are here at Saluda, Father. We all are praying, Father, that the difference in the things that we say and the things that we do and the things that we believe in, Father, treating each other like we would want each other to be treated. Father, we thank you for the things that you have left out for us. Father, you you left us a guideline on everything in life we need to do. Father, we pray that we all can abide by that guideline, Father. Because in that book, you say, "If the blind lead the blind, then everybody would end up in a ditch." Father, we're in a time now that we don't know. Father, we really don't know. Are we a father anything, Father? And we pray that we can grow and do things together that'll be uplifting for Mils County, Father, and your name. That it can be respectable throughout the nation, Father. That this little county can be more something that all of us can be proud of. The way we look, the way we talk, Father, the way we get along, and we pray everything, all our prayers in Jesus name we all do pray. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Mr. Williams. Uh, Miss Ricardi. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right. Um, roll call, please. Mr. Williams present. Mr. Bill Harris present. Mr. Kittinden here. Mr. Jesse here. Mr. Don Harris here. All right, moving right along. Um, need approval of the consent agenda. Also moved. So moved by Mr. Jesse. Second. Second by Mr. Kitten. Can I ask? Um, we do have to ask to have one item added. That would be added item 4F where the board of supervisors are requested to approve the purchase of furniture for the new airport terminal building. Okay, hold on

because that's not on my agenda. No. Adding item 4F and the information is on the left hand side of your f binder. Okay. Would you amend the uh motion to include item 4F? I amend. Yeah, I'll amend my motion and uh to uh include item four with the corrections of the agenda. Thank you. And and a second. And a second as well. Thank you. Okay. Uh moving right along.

Yeah, hold on. Don't speed me up too fast here. Um, any further discussion about the motion, uh, including any additions or subtractions from the minutes? Seeing none, hearing none, roll call on the motion, please. Mr. Bill Harris, yes. Mr. Kittinden, yes. Mr. Jesse, yes. Mr. Williams, yes. Mr. Don Harris,

yes. Motion's approved for the approval of the consent agenda. Okay, moving right along. Um, I'm going to move down to uh resolution of appreciation and I'd like Mr. Crier, if you're here, sir, would you like to come forward so we can Thank you for coming. Um, Mr. Walker is going to read. You want to read it? Please.

If you're ready. Resolution of appreciation. Whereas Dave and Linda Crier moved to Middle Sex County in 2002 and have since devoted more than 23 years of extraordinary service, leadership, and compassion to the residents of the community. And whereas Dave and Linda Crier have demonstrated an unwavering commitment to meeting the needs of Middle Sex County's most vulnerable citizens through both personal service and visionary community support. hand. Whereas in 2010, Dave and Linda Crier constructed and generously donated the Crier Center to the community, creating a lasting legacy of service and a centralized home for critical outreach programs. And whereas the Crier Center proudly houses across Middle Sex, Hands Across Middle Sex, the Middle Sex County Food Pantry, the clothing closet, and the community yard sale, all of which provide essential food, clothing, and household goods to residents in need. And whereas Dave Crier has provided outstanding leadership as chairman of the Middle Sex County Food Pantry and has given countless hours as a regular volunteer, including picking up and delivering surplus food and furniture to families throughout the county. And whereas Dave Crier is also an active member of the Kuanas Club, further demonstrating his commitment to service, volunteerism, and community improvement. And whereas together Dave and Linda Crier have exemplified selfless dedication to children and families by fostering more than 30 children in addition to raising six children of their own, profoundly impacting the lives of countless young people. And whereas the collective efforts of Dave and Linda Crier have strengthened Middle Sex County, enriched the lives of its residents, and set a remarkable example of generosity, compassion, and civic responsibility. Now, be it resolved that the Middle Sex County Board of Supervisors does hereby express its deepest appreciation and sincere gratitude to Dave and Linda Crier for their 23 years of dedicated service to the community. And now be it resolved

that the board of supervisors recognizes the lasting impact of their friendship, volunteerism, and generosity, and extends its heartfelt thanks for their invaluable contributions to the citizens of Middle Sex County. And now be it resolved that this resolution be entered into the permanent records of the county and that a copy be presented to Dave and Linda Crier as a token of the county's esteem and appreciation. Wonderful. Um my words won't be as impactful. Uh but um I would like to recognize that Mr. Cry and your wife's not here today, correct? No, she couldn't make it.

Sorry to hear that. please extend a warmest welcome for to her as well. Uh you're a tremendous asset for the county and um we'd like to try to convince you to stay longer, but I'm sure you'll visit from time to time and any input that you can have for our county would be well welcomed. uh you and your wife uh have done a tremendous job here um in everything that you've done for the county and it goes uh very much appreciated by myself and the rest of the board as well. Thank you for coming today and um Larry, are you back there?

I was going to ask if the board could meet him under the seal, we could get a picture and then after Dave says some words. Yes. Again, sir, we we're very happy to have had you and you've been a lasting impact on this county and we appreciate it very much. Thank you. And now, if you'd be so kind, we'd like to get a quick uh picture if we could.

Come on, board members. Let's go. No, sir. I wanted to take a picture. Nope, I did not. I wanted to take the picture. There you go. But you're better at it, so Y'all stop moving and look at the camera. Okay, look this way.

Thank you, Dave. Absolutely.

Mr. Chairman, before we move on, uh could we have a motion uh regarding the resolution of appreciation, please? Okay. Why don't you make the motion, please? Uh, it would be appropriate for the board to make a motion to adopt the resolution of appreciation of Dave and Linda Crier as presented in your packet on page 47. I so move that motion. So moved by Mr. Jesse. Thank you, sir. Need a second. Second. Second by Mr. Bill Harris. Thank you, sir. Uh, any discussion? Didn't think so. Roll call, please. Excuse me, Mr. Kittinen. Yes, Mr. Jesse. Yes, Mr. Williams. Yes, Mr. Bill Harris. Yes,

Mr. Don Harris. Resounding yes. And, uh, with that, uh, again, thank you, sir, for being here today. We appreciate it greatly. Okay, we have some other recognition. Um, and I'd ask Mr. Cretz and Mr. Longest to come forward with that. And would you identify the two gentlemen for us, please? And you need to read the plaque which is here. I'll get Oh, you got it. Okay.

Good afternoon. U Mr. Boyd, John Boyd is with us today. Um Mr. Dazzle couldn't make it today to the meeting, but um we'd like to recognize Mr. John Boyd. Um, come forward, sir.

So, I'll go I'll go ahead and read it. Um, this is presented to John Boyd in recognition for service on the wetlands board February 2012 to January 2026 is 12 years. Best wishes to you, full of good health and pleasures. Uh, this is presented by the board of supervisors from Lex County, February 3rd, 2026. again. I do appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you.

Larry, you want to come forward?

Yep. Okay, nice smile. break. Thank you.

All right. Okay, I'd like to open the meeting for the uh Wait a minute. Do we need to do another um vote on that? Mr. Chris, I believe these are just awards presented over the They were just required for that. No, sir. I don't believe you have to make any uh further motions on the recognition of the awards. Okay. Wonderful. Uh, I'm going to open up the uh item two. Do we need to go back to the

No, no, no. We've we've finished that. Uh, I'm going to uh open up now uh for public comment. Is anyone wanting to speak? And Miss Ricardi, do you have anybody? There were no submissions.

Anybody want to speak? Seeing none, hearing none, I will close the public comment section and we'll move down to item three. Constitutional officers treasure is a report only on pages 51 through 55 and the commission of revenues report is only a report on page 56. Any comments, discussion? Seeing none, hearing none, I'm going to move down to item four, agency and staff reports. VOT is report only on page 5758. When is uh VDOT going to Mr. Walker uh appear before us? We're going to request them to come in in March.

In March. Okay. Wonderful. Okay. Um I'm going to move down to item B, school matters. No report. However, Dr. Tra Tracy Sykes is here. Um any questions for her at this time? Seeing none, Miss Sykes, do you have anything you want to deliver in addition to being here? We have a work session next Tuesday. All right.

I'll have to look at my report. Next Tuesday, that's a work session with the board and the school. Is that correct? Correct. And what time is that meeting? 4:30 on Tuesday. 4:30 next Tuesday. I don't know that I have it on mine, but I'll make sure it gets on mine. Tuesday.

Yes, it'll be here. Correct, Miss Sykes. It'll be here. And that's a start at 4:30.

All right. Wonderful. Okay. Um, moving down to item D, uh, planning, uh, excuse me, social services. And that's a report only on 59 and 60. Any discussions? Seeing none, I'm going to move straight into item D4D, planning annual update. Mr. Cretz.

Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Um, I don't see the report on the screen there, so hopefully it'd be better if somebody could pull that up so we can follow along. I can't read that from here, but I do have it in front of me. See? So, you can look at the uh various applications. We're about um on par with where we're at these other years. Um the the one item that generally pops up um I'll get to that in a second, but you can see uh our BZA is about on par with what we've had other years. A couple extra um meetings, major site plans. Uh we really didn't have any last year, which is kind of unusual. We did have a major subdivision, and that one being an industrial subdivision for Oscar Barber. Uh ordinance amendments, we had five that were uh brought up. Uh resoning cases, zero. I think the last reasonzoning we had was at the airport. Uh special exceptions, I think the board remembers a few of those. And the total planning commission meetings were about the same as they were uh or items that the planning commission considered about the same. You can see our uh wetlands are about right in sync with the other years. They tend to fluctuate up and down from year to year. Same way with the uh if you go to the next sheet, the uh the variances, administrative variances, they tend to fluctuate some. We didn't have quite as many last year. Bay Act exceptions. Um development activity. That's usually what everybody's most interested in is our single family dwellings. How you know how is that's kind of a barometer

of our community. You can see in 2024 we had 90 well you go back to 2023 we had 46 uh new single family housing starts. In 2024 we had 97. that was attributed to the uh subdivision next to the golf course that was quite a spike that year. Probably a little bit of an anomaly, but so this past year we've been about on par. So you can see uh it's probably an indicator of our economy. Seems to be about fairly steady from the previous years. U you see it went from 34 up to 52, 42, 46, 97, and 51. Um manufactured home starts are about the same. Um total permits are in the same range. We're not quite as much as we were last year, but we're above 23. So all in all, we're processing about the same amount that we have historically the past five, six years. Everything seems to be pretty steady. Nothing u nothing that would alarm anybody is to trend one way or another. Does anybody have any questions on these while I'm up here? I see we're in let's take 2024 we had 97 single family dwellings we only had 67

certificate of occupancies administered well it could be that the the the issued in lag the next year that the starts and the building permits are may fall behind you know timewise a little bit. Okay. Any other questions? I have one. I was waiting to see if you're going to walk away so I could call you back. Would you scroll all the way down on that page? Whoever's manipulating that. Um, resolution. That's it. That was the end.

That's the end.

Okay. Go up. Uh let's see here. Uh I see the Chesapeake Bay Act exceptions uh 7 and 24 7 and 25 and I guess my I'm surprised at that number because does that not include Hold on. Well, it's probably in the wetlands, but anyway, uh h has the requirements become more difficult for and I'm assuming that that's setbacks or way you want to build something based on the Chesapeake Bay Act. Is that correct or not?

Well, there are some new regulations that are being implemented as far as design around the shoreline. Um nothing has really changed in the space of building dwellings within the buffer as to what's permitted, what's not. Um some some items in the buffer are like if you have a pre what they call they always call them pre-bay lots. These are lots that were recorded prior to the bay act adoption. those lots get some consideration by right with some relaxation in the dimensional requirements um when you can't and those you have to build those under a certain uh certain parameters they have they can't be any closer than say 50 ft and that type of thing. So then you have redevelopment. So there's certain trip points that that send it out of staff space and into the space of the the board of zon and appeals. Let's say somebody tore a home down and if you built it in the same footprint, you'd be able to do that by right. But let's say you wanted to add five f or get closer to the water by five feet and you wanted to add you let's say 500 square feet to the home. you would not be able to admin you wouldn't have the ability to administratively approve that. So it can only go to the board of zon and appeals for review and there they have uh findings of fact that they're supposed to you know find to meet to to approve it. So there's different there's all kinds of different bay act and they some some of these can vary back and forth from year to year as to the conversation and the path that the it depends on how much resistance the the homeowner wants to deal with going through these processes. So sometimes they'll walk in and you can if you say well if you keep it in the same

footprint and you keep it the same distance from the water I can approve it and you you have a building permit within weeks you know whereas if you don't if you want to exceed those those parameters then you have to go to the board of zoning appeals and it makes it much more so some of those go back and forth from year to year. Sometimes it's hard to gauge which direction the public wants to go as you know it's a case byase situation. So I I would say all in all our a bay act uh applications are about the same. They they fluctuate from year to year but there there are some things coming that are implemented now with deal more with the shoreline and the and the nearshore that that deal with the the bay act that are making it a little bit tougher. There's some we can go into that a little bit. You there's going to be some new code that you'll have to adopt to deal with that. And while I'm here, I'll speak on that. Mark's currently been working on that particular ordinance. Um, and he sent it off to DEEQ for the first review. We seem to be good boys and girls. We've gotten ours off earlier than most localities. There's only one other locality that sent theirs in. So, we seem to be doing well in that space. So, so anyway, that that's supposed to be actually adopted by now, but DEQ's found some glitches in their own code. They're going back and reviewing it, and we should be getting feedback on that, but sometime this year, we'll we'll we'll prepare a better report that's going to deal with all the ins and outs of that ordinance and what it's going to require. So, it it it is a little impactful in the near shoreline area.

Yeah. I just, you know, with everything that's going on with the bay and a variety of things, I just I just wanted an explanation of that cuz I would have expected that number to be higher. Well, nothing's changed in the space of dwellings. Okay. That that that code has changed is basically unchanged. Wonderful. So that that's just a yearly fluctuation. Thank you, Mr. Cretz. Any other comments or questions? Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Okay, moving right along. Item E4E, uh, emergency service resolution 2601, ratification and declaration of local emergency. Who's got that? was going to be

this is e emergency declaration that we did in an abundance of caution along with the state prior to our recent snow event. Uh for those of you new to the board, we adopt these and then have them ratified by the board because if we incur significant expenses and it is declared a state of emergency, those uh expenses that are eligible could be reimbursed through state and federal sources. So, we have gotten in the habit of declaring these emergencies along with our state to make sure that we have them in place at time in case we do need to seek reimbursement. Sheriff's office and volunteers and other uh county uh essential personnel could seek different reimbursements if needed. I'm not aware that we had very significant expenses during this last event

other than staff time. I don't recall this over the last couple years. Do we ratify that every year? Well, you ratify it after the fact if we do it prior to. Okay. So, that's what we're seeking this time. I got you. All right. A motion would be ordered to approve that. I'll make that motion. Second. Second. Second. Um motion made by Mr. Jesse, second by Mr. Kittin. Any further discussion? I would just like to say, you know, at our meeting, uh, we were blessed because it could have been worse and, uh, you always expect the worst and hope we don't have it and, uh, we were just blessed in in in Middle Sex and All right. Absolutely. Okay. No further discussion. Roll call, please. Mr. Jesse,

yes. Mr. Williams, yes. Mr. Bill Harris, yes. Mr. Kittinden, yes. Mr. Don Harris, yes. Motion is approved. All right, moving down to a item that was added to the consent agenda and that is the airport. Mr. Lewis, first of all, I apologize to the board. I just didn't hit the send button in time to Okay, Amarie, no problem.

So, we applied for a grant from the Commonwealth Aviation Fund for new furniture for the airport. Uh along with that, I had the airport committee pick furniture out and tell me what they wanted to go in and what we should put in the airport one because I have no eye of color or anything else. So, I let the people on the airport committee pick that out and come tell us what we really need to go in there. I gave them a budget of $40,000 because the state's funding guidelines are basically a thousand for every thousand square foot $10,000 funding. Uh this went up to the state aviation board and was approved for $42,256.80 leaving a local share of $4,225.68 for this grant. Uh the list that the Air Force Committee gave us was $47,000. Now, what we're asking for is guidance from the from the board of how you want me to proceed with this. Uh I've had some discussion with some of the board members, and if you wish me to cut, I can do that very easily to get to fall in line with the state budget. So, I guess the request would be for the board to authorize staff to purchase furniture for the for the new airport terminal building up to the amount authorized by the Commonwealth Aviation Fund of $42,256.80 with a local share of $4,225.68. All right. And the extra a ask came about as a result of

because the airport committee originally had asked for four or you had asked for them for 42. Well, we they had asked for 47 was the was their original asked that they went to the aviation board. The aviation board only approved $42,000. Okay. And now is there a change of mindset on that? I don't think there's a change from the airport committee standpoint. I don't think there's a change of mindset from my standpoint. I gave them a budget of $40,000. So, and you're looking for approval of the budget for 42

42256. That's what the state grant was. I gave them a thumb ballpark estimate of I said 4,000 square feet, $40,000. Is there a motion to approve the 4225680?

What is the extra 5,000 here adding? It's uh Is this mic on? Yeah, I think it's me.

It's uh for there's a rectangular tables for a total of $1,16.88. 88. Two chairs for a total of $9424 and two recliners for the power lounge for a total of $3,88866 for a grand total of $5,845.78. And my understanding, well, the 42256 that we're looking to approve today would put you put the building in pretty good shape. It would put with extra equipment. Yes, sir.

If I'm correct on that, and we can always come back if there's additional funding that we might want to do over and above that. We certainly can. And plus, I'm planning on going up to the state salvage area up on Darby Town Road to see what I can find up there to go into it. Okay, that was my question. Okay, you want to make a motion? Yes. I I uh move that we approve the request for what? 42,000 and 25680. 25680 uh to purchase funding for for funding for the equipment uh the furniture.

Correct. Is there a second? That would then leave the county um on the hook for 4,26. That's correct. 8 cents. Correct. It's a 10. It's a 9010 funding. Right. Right. Second motion made by Mr. Kitten to uh approve the 4225680 and second by Mr. Bill Harris. Any further discussion? Seeing none, roll call, please. Mr. Williams? Yes. Mr. Bill Harris? Yes. Mr. Kittinden? Yes. Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Don Harris? Yes. Motion's approved.

Thank you, sir. Anything else you have? Well, we've got pictures up on the board that I took this Sunday of the uh of the airport of the new terminal building. You'll see the paint. They've pretty much painted the inside of it. They should be out there right now hanging the drop ceiling. So, this was as of Sunday. That's the pilot lounge right there. You're showing pictures of the kitchenet looking into the mechanical room. That's the mechanical room. That's looking down the hall from the pilot lounge back into the uh the building.

I would encourage anybody that hasn't gone down that a look at it to make a trip down there. Pictures of pictures, but it you really don't get a full scope until um you see it up close and in front. Yeah. And you can see right there you'll see the where the attendant will sit the counter the counter space. Right. I'll be more than happy to give guided tour if anybody wants to come down there.

Um I think you've done a wonderful job on this project and I again will um step out and say that. Um and you've managed it very well and you've managed it to the expectations of what the county wants and how we want it to be there. Last question I have to you. Where are we with the surplus old building? Uh, is it still there? It is still there. We'll be in that building until the we get the occupancy permit and get everything moved over to the new building. Okay. I wasn't sure what the time frame of when y'all were going to move that or whatnot. Okay. But we but we've had a trying cold snap going through there because the heat

Yeah. would not like to stay on in there. Right. Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Thank you. All righty. Regular agenda items. Uh VA250 committee sponsorship request Trent Funkhouser. Good day, ladies and gentlemen. And your contingent. Good. Yes, indeed. Yes. I have Missa White. I think many of you all know of course she is the current chairman probably the forever chairman of the uh of the Virginia 2 committee here in Middle Sex. Um she also wears many other hats that I won't get into but uh primarily with the Middle Sex Museum.

Yes.

And then additional moral support that don't wish to come forward just yet unless they're called upon. That's up to you Mr. Harris is uh Mr. John Gmore with um Colonial Seapport Foundation and of course the Luna and Miss Marilyn South with um Middle Sex Museum and Historic Society. So the county administrator was kind enough I'm going to be very brief was kind enough to bring up my memo and if you could slide it up just a little bit. That last paragraph not that far. That last paragraph is really the only thing that matters uh on my behalf uh in the Virginia 250 committee and then the recommended motion or actions that we would like to take. Um I have been remiss in reporting to y'all regularly about the activities of the committee. You get that intermittently through some of my staff reports, but we haven't really talked about that except during budget time and maybe some EDA discussions. So, I'm going to provide a handout that has a couple other edits um that we missed. Um but Miss White would like to address that kind of as a prelude to talking to you about this particular request and why we're standing in front of you today.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome, Miss White.

Thank you so much and thank you for hearing from us. uh you appointed this Virginia Middle Sex 250 committee a couple of years ago and we have been more than busy. What Mr. Funkhouser is sharing with you is a list of the many many programs that we have conducted on behalf of Middle Sex 250. I think there are at least 10 programs over several years and we've just been really really busy. We've had huge crowds for those um programs and to date we had not come to you for financing our member organizations. So you will recall that Middle Sex 250 is composed of representatives of the Colonial Seapport Foundation, the Deltaville Maritime Museum, the Heritage Committee, the Middle Sex Museum, and um I probably forgot. Anyway, there are five of them. I may not have said all five. And so those organizations have financed what we've done so far. We did go out of the county and able to seek funding for last year's and receive funding for last year's Junth program from uh Virginia Humanities. And so we had that assistance and now that we come perhaps to the end of our life as a committee then we are trying to go out with a bang and that's why we are asking for support of these two programs that are outlined in your packet. Any questions?

Questions. I always have questions. Okay. Um uh scroll down. Uh, scroll up then. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Go up a little further. Okay. Uh, I don't see it. Scroll down just a little bit. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's some duplicate pages. I don't know how that happened.

Okay, right there is fine. Um, couple things. One, I haven't seen them yet, but I've heard that the uh um the walking trail, y'all put up signs there now. Correct.

Yes, sir. That is correct. And I'm glad you asked that because something I love to talk about. So that the substantive signs on the walking trail that detail six subject matter areas were installed the third week in November and that's one on health, religion, education and so on. And then the final introductory sign was um actually installed last month and so the trail is fully populated with the signs and we've been in touch with Mr. Walker to look to see when we could have a grand opening and so yeah. Well, sir, and the heritage committee is delighted that that has been accomplished.

I look forward to seeing that. I have not seen it. I do have two questions, though. One is that the budget that you had for doing signage, have y'all completely exhausted that?

Yes, sir, we have. We we uh Fairfield was actually um very generous in their time because I'm certainly they've spent much more time than the hours that they build. But yes, we did have enough money to complete it. In fact, the um we actually from that money, the heritage committee and the Fairfield shared the cost of the plaques that went on to the Sinclair Walker building. So, good that was about $900. The two groups shared that, but that was kind of Fairfield swan song from the money that the board gave them. Uh the last question I have is and I'm not sure where the discussion is. Uh we had talked about some better signage on Route 33. Has there been any more discussion on that andor with the county? Um not to my knowledge unless uh Dr. Brown has, but I don't think he has. And so now that we have completed the trails and that's certainly the time to uh because it really is a wonderful asset and so we certainly want to tell everybody about it.

I would agree. Um okay. Uh my last question is to Trent. Yes sir.

Where's the EDA on any of this funding that's being requested? So again, the reason we're sitting here is uh last resort if you will because the committee has done quite a good job of and this is in cooperation with the museums, the historic society, genealog whoever has contributed to the local committee efforts. They've done this through no funding request other than what we receive to promote tourism and what y'all provide to the the museums of Middle Sex. Um and then of course we cover the heritage So this is all interconnected but at its core they've been able when I say they you know these folks have been able to conduct all of the activities with some minimal expenditures from the EDA. We provide staff support and then we publicize all these events through Virginia's River Realm etc. So in this case we just didn't have funding and this is the first time we've kind of done some larger programs that really required some expenses that could not be covered um by the respective museums. Um, but they've done a great job over the past two years as evidenced by that list. I don't know if that answered your question, but the EDA has a 30-day waiting period. We just put this on the agenda last month. We changed our meetings to the second uh Monday of every every month in the evening. And given the timing, I just needed to get some on the agenda after I discussed it with the county administrator. So, I appreciate y'all even considering it. The way I've kind of phrased it is a kind of a challenge. We're looking for funding for two speakers, but recognizing that we'll have some other events leading up to July. Um, if y'all would be so kind, is to kind of make this a challenge, if you will. If y'all would fund up to 5,000, I believe the EDA will fund up to 5,000. But if you style it that way, they're going to have to match whatever y'all approve if if we're smart about it. That didn't come

off too. Are you sure you're not? Are you sure you're not a politician? No. No. I might have I might have stuck my because you danced that and skirted that pretty good.

But again, given the timing, so whatever y'all would be kind enough to provide. And again, any funds that were left over because we're still trying to refine the the different aspects of the budget. And that's why one of those attachments was just some cut and paste that I put for a separate application that was not funded. But we'll continue to use that type of information. And both of them are very recognized on their subjects and it would be good fit for Middle Sex. And I didn't mention this also and I apologize if you did. There'll be school assemblies following these presentations also. So Miss South and Miss White have been carrying the line share that Miss White started with Miss Miss Why and then uh Miss South's been working with Mr. Lawler to try and get him here. But both of them are prepared to do assemblies and already kind of done all the advanced planning at the school superintendent's office on that.

Yeah, Dr. Byron Bishop is on the board of the Middle Sex Museum. He's worked very closely with us to prepare the students so that for both topics, the students have had the classroom preparation so that they can be receptive to the speakers that are set to address them. So, it be a general event, public event like we've done in the past. When I say we, the Virginia 250 committee because I certainly have not done that. Again, our role has been staff support and publicity and that's the easy part to do, right?

Um, registered on the Virginia 250 website. Um, so we we try and cover all that, but but they meaning the museums and Middle Sex and the other affiliate type groups that that do those types of programs, they've done a a great job. Okay. And um so because y'all haven't met, we'll meet next Monday. Okay. So we they they were very receptive and Miss White's going to be at the EDA meeting, but again, they have a standing policy of waiting 30 days. Okay. But that's going to put us into March if I waited for the EDA to make a complete decision. So I kind of had to

figure out a way that I could approach both bodies concurrently. was on the EDA agenda then for January and so this will be their second time 30-day waiting period by policy on any grant request it's a business improvement because they want to make sure that they're not missing anything and give chance to kind of vet it but this is relatively simple but they wanted to maintain that policy okay expected to take action Monday night okay and I heard by the grapevine they wanted to see what we do before they decided what they would do I I might not have artfully described that. So we'll consider it a matching challenge amongst friendly people.

Okay. Um ju members, just so you know, if you decide you want to make a motion to approve that, um I think we do have in our miscellaneous income account enough to cover that. Am I correct on that? That's correct. Wonderful. All right. What's your pleasure? I I'll make a motion that uh we approve uh the $5,000 for the I guess the speakers for the Virginia 250 committee. Wonderful. Is there a second? Second motion. Can I clarify? Was that up to 5,000 or was that 5,000?

If you could do it 5,000 and we encourage the EDA to match said funds. Okay. Thank you. And then a second by Mr. Kittin. Any further discussion? I just have one question. Uh, has the committee uh I don't want to put him on the spot, but has any has the committee talked to Larry about he's as far as I'm concerned, he's like the the foremost historian in this county. He's a wealth of information and uh and I I was looking on here. I didn't see him listed anywhere in here, but we haven't had Mr. Chi do this particular program, but I'll rely on these folks because Mr. certainly contributes on a regular basis. Absolutely.

And he's been a consultant to all that we do. We call on him all the time. That's great. All right. Thank you. Excuse me. Butrent, Larry was involved. just not on that list, right? But he spoke in conjunction with the middle sex resolve. I appreciate I'll do anything and he has y he's on the list and gets the information but again his presence is always

if I might use this occasion to just mention that there is the 250 exhibition downstairs and that's the 250 I mean the courthouse committee and Mr. Tuning has been a part of that along with Dr. Bridget, Miss South, and Holly um from the museum and others. And so we certainly are happy to have that downstairs.

Thank you. I try to mention that every chance I get too that if you haven't seen it, you ought to go downstairs and look at it because it is done quite well. Um okay, for a call roll call for for the question. Um, next time we want the EDA to make a recommendation before we make a recommendation. Just as a housekeeping issue attempt to do so. That's what was operated by the time. Okay. Again, if I may. Yes. If you could style that as $5,000 and we encourage the EDA to match that amount. I would appreciate it. Okay. Yeah. That's up to you, sir. Yeah. Yeah. I would I would like to

You don't need to amend that. That was part right 5,000. That was part of the motion. Okay. We didn't put any stipulations on it. If the EDA doesn't do this, I would just recommend you not come forward. If they decide to do something different and be patient with me. So, does the motion include $5,000 for the speakers and we encourage the EDA? Is that part of the resolution? That wasn't part of the resolution. I think he was making that part of the resolution. Uh are you the motion? Yeah, I'll make that part of I think that's what you were asking for is that you encourage EDA to match that match that encourage

sorry no question we need okay he did I'll second that amendment to the resolution. Thank you. Okay. Are we all legal now? Yes sir. Wonderful. Uh, that being said, uh, any other discussion? Seeing none, roll call, please. Mr. Bill Harris, yes. Mr. Kittinden, yes. Mr. Jesse, yes. Mr. Williams, yes. Mr. Don Harris, yes. Unanimously approved. Y'all have a wonderful day. Thank you so very much. You all do the same.

Okay. Yeah, I'll move down to 6B. Budget supplemental requests 20 026 um 007 annual fire department aid 74 and 75. That's me. That's you.

That's me. Um we receive funds every year as you know. Um this is another pass through. This is called aid to localities. We take the money and split it three ways between the uh three volunteer fire departments and we've already received the money. They were asking for it because apparently we got it well over a month ago and I forgot to do this. So, we're requesting approval of this budget amendment.

Motion would be in order. um the letter that he's showing, that's the letter that goes out with this $18,000 to each of the um three fire departments so they know what they can spend it on. I think I know what you're going to ask. You can see it better here. First year it doesn't get asked. What's the question? Was there a question or you said I thought you

Well, every year we're asked where's the um middle peninsula I mean middle sex volunteer fire department or volunteer fire department whatnot town close their money they get their own okay that's how that work because it's full okay a motion would be in order I make a motion we approve the budget couple question and this is kind of a pass through. This is completely a pass through. Yes. Yeah. Second motion made by Mr. Jesse, seconded by Mr. Bill Harris. Any further discussion? Seeing none, roll call. Mr. Mr. Kittinden. Yes. Mr. Jesse.

Yes. Mr. Williams. Yes. Mr. Bill Harris. Yes. Mr. Don Harris. Yes. The motion is approved. Okay. Uh, Anmarie, I think you're still on the discussion part with uh, budget supplement request, tuition reimbursement, item D. What? Letter C comes first. Oh, okay. C, go ahead with letter C. Then

start with letter C. Who wants who who's going to volunteer to do letter C? I I'm happy to piggyback as a group effort here, Mr. Chairman. Before you is an appropriations request for uh our bond council. As you know, the board authorized a million-doll loan to your ETA for purchase of a uh property called Project Access. They intend to have a public dock installed down in Deltavville. Bond council represented you and the EDA in that matter. um as we often do and this is this is the cost for the legal services for preparing those documents presenting to you. It was a very complicated deal. Um there were a lot of nuances to put it politely to the deal. Uh and there was a lot of uh lastm minute requests and this is this is the cost of those legal services and it's staff recommendation that you approve it. happy to answer any other questions.

Is this is this the cost for the county and the EDA?

Yes, sir. Essentially, it the lines became very blurred given the complexity of the real estate deal. Um, yes, sir. The answer is yes. It covers both sides. it in fairness to our bond council who also works with the EDA, it would be almost impossible given I will say again the nuances and complexity and the amount of attorneys that were involved um to peacemeal. Do you know what I mean? Like it it um it was a discussion with Dan Seagull and it was very difficult to delineate when he was wearing an ED hat EDA hat versus a board hat, a BOS hat. I would say though the majority of the time uh Sans Anderson was ensuring that the county was protected given just the uniqueness of the deal. And if I may add, it looks like these invoices were for May. It started back in May. So it was ours served in May, June, July, August, September, October. Yeah. All through October. So there were five months worth of attorney invoices. It was a very looks like you said was it looked like it was a very complex project.

It was um I think the last time I talked to several of you about it. Uh I asked that um Sans Anderson be informed that the board thought the numbers were a little high. I'm not sure h who's doing that or why you're doing or how you're doing it, but they need to hear that, too. You follow me? St. $4,000. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. Um, a motion would be in order. I'll make that motion. We got to pay our bills. Uh,

got to pay your bills. County budget submit request form FY2. But you can complain why you write 008. You right. All right. Okay. Second motion made by Mr. Jesse. Thank you, sir. Second made by Mr. Kittin. Thank you, sir. Any further discussions or questions? I got a question. Yes. It's It seems like for the EDA to get the money, it's costing us $35,000. Yes. So, for me to loan you money, Heather, I got to pay to get it. I'm I'm just It sound kind of strange to me. You know,

it does. I mean, I just um I understand the number is a bit of a It could be taken as a shock, but I feel as though Matt should join in on this conversation, too. I I want to be careful. I want to stress again that your EDA presented you with this um proposal and and the board supported it. And if I haven't said it enough, I will say it again. It was extremely complex, albeit many items last minute. And so the bill is reflective of um the level of involvement that is necessary to facilitate it. I I respectfully, Mr. Chairman, I I Matt, I'm going to ask you to weigh in here because I I want to be really careful here, but if you want me to say it again, I will say

I think you're doing fine. I'm just going to watch you for a while. your EDA presented you with um this is a contract that they negotiated and it is I think a little unfair to um I I'll leave it there. I'll leave it there. I I think that um Sans Anderson had a very difficult real estate contract to navigate through and there were a lot of attorneys and uh there were some serious demands made with very little notice and so there's a cost to to telling people to jump as quickly as we asked them to. Who owns it who holds the title insurance? I I don't Matt, do you know who has the title insurance?

I do not know. I I I couldn't I would imagine be able to do anything with this find that out. I I I mean I just don't politicians coming back to the podium. We have full insurance um in terms of title insurance that was purchased as part of the closing and that is and also we have full insurance on the property itself. EDA. So the title insurance the title insurance is under the EDA. Correct. The property owner. Yeah. So we have no involvement with the property owner once that property was deed to us. So that's the part of the complexity was Thank you, Trent. Yeah, I was like I forget.

Part of the complexity was the property owner of the marina was the one who was the master purchaser, if you will, for lack of a better term. And then concurrently once they closed, we pulled the three parcels from them at a pre-agreed price. So, there were multiple attorneys for Norview, the purchaser of Norview, the owner, the county EDA, uh the real estate attorney that the EDA retained. Miss Lewis still had to do work on behalf of the EDA. Sans Anderson was doing work on behalf of the EDA as well as the county.

So, it was it was highly unusual, but that was the way that was agreed upon by the attorneys. I originally just wanted, hey, can't we just concurrently close? But apparently that couldn't happen. So, I'm a layman. I understood. We just did what we had to do. What type of deed? Um, it should be a special warranty. Yeah, it's a special warranty deed, but it's a standard deed, if you will. I mean, there's nothing that I'm aware of that's that's a general. It wasn't the purchase of the real estate. was the terms in which the And if I may, I I would say it's not the attorneys, it's the uh this is what the EDA negotiated and authorized. Um

you ready for me to chime in? Yeah. Not to Yeah. And out of respect, seriously, to the legal profession, I understand exactly what she's driving at. Um the contract was a good contract, but it wasn't ideal. H had there been more time spent up front, I think some of those issues would have been clarified. And then as we went to closing, different parties weren't doing things in a timely manner. And this was not the county's fault at all. Thank you. Thank you, Trent. Matt. Matt, you

I I think they did a very good job and I've learned I've done this long enough. Hey, if you see other people doing your job for you, let them go ahead and do it cuz they're doing great. And I think the explanation they gave was spot on. I would just sum it up by saying it was a very, very creative project. And uh Dan and the bond council had to come in and make it fit government. And kind of chiming in on what Wayne said, paying our bills, this cost doing business. Yeah. Yeah. But and Sans Anderson is high. And I complain a lot about that. So, I'll be happy to con complain again, Mr. Chairman. No problem. Maybe we'll get a backpack this Christmas. It was a project that was outside the box

of what not only we were trying to do, but any other county tries to do something like that. It's it's a very outside the box thing. And yeah, I and I know all the details of why things were delayed or this or that or whatever, but we we also had some time frames that we needed to close the deal on. And that's what you get what you pay for sometimes. So, I understand that.

Well, and to give it an optimistic uh kind of outlook, I think we're going to be very eligible for some of the grants the board's aware of when the board was thinking about purchasing the property. I think the EDA is going to be spot-on and eligible for some of that. And I'm I'm very confident in the next couple years you're going to see potentially some property uh purchase reimbursement come our way through those grants. I mean, I don't want to be overly optimistic, but it looks good. Of course, you know, you never know these days, but they're doing a good job and in putting forth a good good well, great effort to get those grants. So, without owning the property, we couldn't go for those grants as easily. So, having owned the property, we're a little bit more eligible for that funding.

Any anybody else? Any other discussion? You know, still, you know, um I find it hard to buy some of, you know, what everybody's saying. You know, if I'm going to do something for you, I'm going to do it. And if you want it, you going to have put your part in in some kind of way. But it look like everybody got everything all twisted up and it made something, you know, the county going to end up paying a little bit extra money that we really didn't. That's how come we got a vote on this. It should have been solved within itself, but it didn't. And I don't know whether we didn't act right or what, but at the end of the day, it's going to cost us $35,000.

Excellent. The the loan document between the county ADA is in the monies to be able to accomplish that or encompassed in that money in that 35,000 as well. 34,000. I'm sorry, it's really hard to hear you, Bill. Can you say that a little louder, please? I think so, Bill. I think the the loan document for the million dollars covered the purchase. Is is that the case? You loan them the million dollars. This is simply for the the actual bond. It's outside of the loan we loan the EDA is what Bill's asking. One more time. Would would the money that we loan the EDA be enough to cover this expense of the EDA? Was it pay for it? That's what I thought. No, this is in addition.

Okay. We had a we had to come up with a contract for a million dollars we were going to loan the EDA. There's paperwork involved with that loan. Yes, sir. Is that the the fee to draw up that paperwork? It is in this $34,000. Yes, sir. Okay. So, it's encompassed along with a lot of other time. Yeah. Yes, sir. Good question.

And then the EDA reviewed the documents to ensure that, excuse me, bond council reviewed the real estate contract in representing us, the county, right, to make sure that like that that's when it got complicated. They would take off their they they had to review multiple sets of documents to ensure that the EDA was meeting the meeting the conditions of your loan documents that they also prepared. Um, sorry. I didn't mean to make that harder than it was, but So, this $34,000 is going to be split amongst different providers in this group. No, sir. This is just to pay your legal counsel.

Okay. So, Sans Anderson took care of taking care of the loan documents and everything. It's a one-stop shop. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Any further questions, comments? That I don't know if you keep going. We could have a That'd be very wise. Okay, there is a motion on the floor. Um do it. Seeing no further discussion, roll call. Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Williams? Yes. Mr. Bill Harris? Yes. Yeah. Mr. Kittington? Yes. Mr. Don Harris?

Yes. The motion on 2026 008 has been approved. Okay. Where are we now? Read. Okay. Uh I'm not sure Ann Marie, are you? Okay. Go ahead.

That's me. Um during our last year's budget process uh we were asked to cut things and um at that time we said well we're quite certain I've got an employee that's going to be coming back for tuition reimbursement and at the discussion around the table we said we'll go ahead and cut it and ask for it if you when you need it. We need it. Yep. So we have an employee who is requesting her $1,800 for um tuition reimbursement. The good news is it's in my department because um I had a vacancy the first month of the fiscal year. Um I have sufficient funds in my full-time salaries to fund the tuition reimbursement. So at this time I'm just asking for approval to move money from the full-time salaries to tuition reimbursement.

Yep. Line item transfer. Say that again. Say that again. Line item transfer. Uh no I ain't talking about the the reimbursement. How does it work? And what advantage is it for the county? Okay. It's part of your personnel policy. It is specifically written in your personnel policy that that we will reimburse employee reimburse employees who are taking classes that are relevant to their job.

Um it's got to be pre-approved that's relevant to their job. Um this employee I think is on her second year of getting a reimbursement. It was two years ago and then LA skipped last year and this year. Um but because it's in our personnel policy and again we've we approved it as part of the policy ergo employees take it on faith that we will reimburse it when the time comes. Um and and they have to commit to be with the county for a certain period of time after six months. I think that's correct. That's an important part of that. We don't just hand money out require a certain grade. Yes.

Oh, absolutely. It's a grade. It's got to be graded and I want to say it's simply above a C, but I I'm sorry. I can't remember the policy. They should have brought that. Um, but yes, then they are required to pay us back if they leave within 6 months. And of course, that's not going to happen. So, and that's in policy, too. 6 months. I I don't know if No, sir. I think that's in my form. So, we don't have it nowhere else to I don't think I have it in I don't think it's in the policy yet, but it's in But when she signs the form, when the employee signs the form requesting it, it says that they must. So, that is an agreement between me and the employee. Yep. Maybe that's implied in the policy. Okay. Maybe we need something just a little bit clarify that, you know, send somebody Oh, absolutely.

School for the education. How long they going to stay with you or can they walk away in 6 months?

You know, we're going to need I think we're going to need something a little bit more solid than that. Sending them school, you know, you want to make sure you get what you pay for cuz they can they can walk away after get the tuition. It's not a thing that have it happened before. The answer is yes. Whether it happened here before, maybe no, but we see it all over the county. It's a lot of that reimbursement and I'm not against education. I mean, get all you can to pursue yourself as much as you can. And I think that should be, but at the same time, if the county taxpayers going to pay it, it should be also helping benefit the county, too. And you don't take it somewhere else. If we don't have it written right, if we don't have it in policy, dropping it down, and I'm not talking about the 1,800. I'm talking about we don't have it in policy. We shouldn't guess whether six months or one year or two years. We should have it written simply that it should be. If it not, it's something that we're gonna have to do about it to make sure it's right. And don't be and don't be afraid to put it out there so the public or the taxpayers can know, you know, and I'll give example of this is is if for instance in the school and you teach in the second grade, you go and get your master's degree and I guess the school system pays for it. But you turn around and comes right back to the classroom the same way you less uh teach in the second grade. Now you're not benefiting what you call now they look at in the system you call it the head teacher so you pay you more money how long they pay you more money I I mean you you think about it then you hire somebody else to do the same thing that you are paying somebody else to teach the same classroom you know so these kind of things that we've been sitting on for years but if we pay attention to the system we'll find out to make it all simple I'm not saying yes you don't pay the tuition and I'm not going to use the word hand because well but I'm going to use it anyway but you going to stay with reg you know you're not you're not just going to walk away after you get what you got because you got a greater opportunity somewhere else. So, and that's how I'm looking at, you know, just look at money making anyway.

Well, um, Amarie, if you would look into that just to see if there's some clean up that needs to be done on the verbiage. Oh, you please me no end. My I've got two if you've been in my office lately, you'll see my top two projects. Our p our purchasing policy that's got to be fixed and personnel policy and it specifically does identify that I want to clarify that. So you're not you are not wrong. So appreciate you saying that because I didn't have to. Thank you. Wonderful. You are you're making it easy. Appreciate you. Okay. I don't think we have a motion. So, a motion would be in order to approve the tuition request in the amount of $1,800. So, moved. Second.

So, moved by Mr. Bill Harris, seconded by Mr. Williams. Further discussion. Seeing none, roll call, please. Mr. Williams? Yes. Mr. Bill Harris? Yes. Mr. Kittinen? Yes. Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Don Harris? Yes. Motion is approved. All right, moving right along. Uh, citizens appointments. No, sorry. I'll get there. Thanks for keeping me in check. Um, surplus items. Am Marie,

thank you. As you know, we are continuing to clean up junk. Um, this time we've got a desk, some chairs, and a credenza and a We have no idea where this nice little bicycle came from. Um, but again, they they people end up stuffing stuff in these rooms, stuffing them in the back, and when we ask whose they are, nobody has the idea. So, we're getting rid of them um at this time. And of course, we can't just get rid of them. We like to get board approval to properly dispose of them at this time. We've got five black desk chairs, a yellow bicycle, a L-shaped desk, a four-door filing cabinet, which I called a credenza, and another yellow brown chair. We ask that you declare them surplus authorizing the proper disposal of them.

Okay. Um just a question before uh we continue to move on. Uh would you put on your list of these items to check with the um with the airport to see if they need some additional f Oh, interesting you should say that. We do for all of this. I sent it out to all directors. um I call them directors, department heads, whatever agencies, everybody we have with these pictures before I send it out to you. So, one of these chairs was cut out of the picture because it was already nabbed. So, we do give everybody a chance to take this before we distribute it.

She doesn't send me the email because I'm not allowed to have any more junk chair in my office. Well, I I'd suggest you resend a memo to the airport and ask them if that uh any of that would be something they'd be interested in. And I'd also like you to uh send Tracy or Sykes or somebody in the um in the school system for what they might if they want any of that in the U administrative building. Yes. And I'll leave it up um to Mr. Tunin to see if any of that can be used by the by y'all's new building, if it's adequate or not, if it's any anything the town may want.

We can't do that. Um, you'd have to surplus it to the town. Yeah. Yeah. They're not I mean, you can do it, but you can. You just have to surplus it to them. We, you know, when we're looking at large ticket items here, uh, understand what we're going through. But we're looking at stuff here that I'm starting to wonder if staff's time is being utilized properly to get rid of this kind of stuff. If we shouldn't. I agree. Just I I mean, on auction here, if you get a $100 for the stuff, you're right. I mean, if if the board I mean, I think you're doing the right thing legally and everything else, but it comes a time when

I think the board needs to establish a policy where where if it's under a certain amount of money, don't bother bringing that to us. Just y'all decide when it's old and can go away. Yeah. The sta staff is very confident, I think, to make these kind of decisions with no problem. I mean, and might I go back to my number one procurement policy? So, that is part of the procurement policy. We do not have a disposition policy in my procurement policy because absolutely I would appreciate to have some discretion about throwing away cra um cruddy old stuff cruddy old stuff and some of this some of the stuff I've gotten rid of has been pretty cruddy. Well, that's on your homework list then to to put if we need to readress the verbiage of surplus property. Why don't you look at it and see what you think?

I would be delighted to that would I Yes. Agreed. Thank you. Thank you for that segue into my future. Appreciate it. All right. Wonderful. Okay. So, we need a motion to um surplus whatever is out there to be surplus. Correct. I'm I will uh I'll try to say that we I move that we declare these valuable items uh authorize proper disposal of them. Okay. Page 80. I'm sorry. As outlined on page 80 of your board packet. As as outlined on page 80 of the board packet.

Second. Motion made by Mr. Krenn. Second by Mr. Bill Harris. Thank Thank you, gentlemen. Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Mr. Bill Harris? Yes. Mr. Kittinden? Yes. Mr. Jesse? Yes. Mr. Williams? Yes. And Mr. Don Harris? Yes. Motion is carried. Okay. Item five, regular agenda items, citizens appointments. Ann Marie, I have none. Okay. We got uh M Mr. Chairman.

Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I wanted to ask Dave to speak to the wetlands. Go ahead. Thanks, Dave. And if Mark could come forward too, just kind of keep me straight. I'm going to uh remind the board last month we went through these appointments and there was some discussion about the u the wetlands board and we had a a gentleman that was willing to serve he's already serves in a district that's already represented and u supervisor Jesse had mentioned that maybe we you know get back to uh you know his preference was to look in his district for for a person to represent wetlands board in your district if you remember last month.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, um just to kind of the there's some I think going last month I didn't know exactly which district was being represented and which one wasn't. It looks like there might be a slight error in this. Um actually uh the Hartfield district is represented with Chris Brewington and the uh the uh Michael Endorf also is in the Hartfield district was the alternate that was willing to serve as a full-time member. Now all the other districts are okay. Monica Sanders is in Harmony Village's district, which is Reggie's district. That's covered. And and Scott Schaefer is located in Ry's district, which is Pinetop. So, all the districts are covered except for

the Saluda district, which is the chairman's district, and uh Wayne's district, Jamaica district. So, I just wanted to clarify that as to if you know to make sure they all knew where to go to look. Uh because last month there was some wasn't clear as to who was where and also there was you know a slight I think there's a discrepancy in the in the little subnopsis prepared for the board. So I just wanted to clear that up. If is there any questions on the wetlands board? An alternate. Okay. Once there's a vacancy, the alternate becomes a voting member and tell Absolutely. Yes, sir. Okay. So, right.

So, so the alternate can't it's kind of odd there because the alternate serving in a district where it's already being represented. Exactly. Exactly. But what he does is helps establish a quorum. Obviously, fills a position

and and usually the the role of the alternate is more when a member's out or sick or as a backup, not generally as a fill in for a long period of time. That's not the intent of an alternate. So in the case where the board is this particular board is full, you would have the uh the alternate that would just he could come he he wouldn't have to be there necessarily. He he can show up at his will. He's not a paid member if he's not uh attending a meeting. He's just kind of laying and waiting, I guess, so to speak. But since there isn't a vacancy, we bring them in. So, I just wanted to clarify to make sure everybody understood which districts were not represented. If the board wants to go in that direction or they can, you know, at the time I believe Chris Burrington was he may have been um was he was he when Chris was elected was he an at large just brought in from the he was an alternate.

He was an alternate. Mr. Schaefer was an alternate also. So we have a few that were alternates that were appointed to fold. So once um a representative for the wetlands board uh for Jamaica district and pine type district u once that occurs the gentleman you were talking about who's the alternate would move back to the alternate spot. Correct. Is that right? Yeah. Once it's filled he goes back to an alternate position. Right now he can vote. Correct. Until he gets he's a voting member. right now he fills that void so to speak. Right. Right. So I just wanted the board to understand that there was a little bit of confusion last month as to which district was filled, which one wasn't and that type of thing. So

okay. And I believe the the BZA uh is vacant. That's correct. I believe so. I I'll working on some people. I just been busy, but I'll get somebody in. Okay. And uh Randy, how about the Pinetop district? Are you working on that? That that's actually covered with Scotty Schaefer. Oh, so you're saying this? Yes. So we Yes. Okay. Need one from Saluda District. Well, how come that's not listed? It's That's incorrect. That's why I'm up here. Oh, okay. Who left out of the Saluda district?

Um, who wasn't the Saluta District? And is that for wetlands? Nobody left out of the district. What we had before was Jamaica. Monica and we had Mr. Woody was in the pinetop along with Mr. Donald. So what we had was two in the Pinetop. I got John Boyd and then Harmony village and so we had we had a vacancy for Sluda but it was covered because the way the bylaws are for the wetland board they don't have to be district specific for a member to serve unlike the BZA and other other boards. Okay.

But it's a board preference that they pick from district or at least as their first choice. Mr. Loftton was there. He sat down and I think that's when they appointed Mr. Schaefer to his spot. So it's kind of located around and Mr. Mr. Lton's been out for three three years. So historically they have picked out of district that from time to time Mr. Jesse mentioned he would like to have a representative from his district. LA last month he mentioned that. Okay. Jamaica. Absolute. Right. Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah. So, I just wanted to clear that up because there was

I'm glad you did. Yeah. So, everybody understands what's missing and what needs to be filled. Okay. Dave, just a quick question. How many counties around us still operate wetlands boards? Okay. So, I mean, if you can't answer that tonight, don't worry about it. We we'll be talking more about you talk about the ones that we know that King and Queen has turned their program over to I remember talking to Tom Weltroer about it cuz that was the last time we looked at doing the same. We believe Essex may have turned theirs over. So we've had discussions internally about there's also an option of turning this back. BMRC can take this program over. Um well it's a state program that we optionally choose to handle locally, right? Yeah.

It's an option. It's a it's a courtesy that we provide our contractors, right? And then we also provide the courtesy to VMRC because we do Y.

So So that is we've had internal conversations that is an option to turn this back over to the state where Virginia Marine Resources Commission would uh then in turn be that board and review these through their commission type of thing. So, um it's it's an option that we'll probably pursue as far as conversation. Um I'm seeing more pressure in different directions from for our department. Uh that in the future um well, what's happened with the wetlands board? When I I did it 10 years ago, it was fairly simple. It's become more complicated. You have the the living shoreline components. Now you have to prove that you, you know, if you're asking for a bulkhead, you have to prove why you need a bulkhead. 10 years ago, you just asked. Now you have to show substantial reason why. So everything has gotten more complicated. It's costing staff more time. Uh he he consumes more, you know, absorbs more time in it than I did when I did it 10 years ago because it's just gotten more complicated. And now the state seems to be looking over our shoulder as to how you know the the the the training on on the uh you know we had seasoned boards for this and they were used to processing these. Now we have a newer board and if we make a mistake VMRC is going to come in and overturn it. Well if we can doing that why don't we just send it to them let them do it in the first place. So, that's an option that we may further pursue and maybe we can uh I think probably some type of report on that would probably be just

I think before we finish the budget this year if you could get the board a report letting them know just outlining the pros and cons. The the con the cons is Dave just outlined are definitely there. They were there when I was planning director. Um but the pros are that our citizens don't have to drive to Newport News, right? and the contractors don't have to drive Newport News to get their wetlands permits. But um um yeah, I think Dave said it very well. It's getting more and more complicated and the state really appreciates us doing their job for them. Yeah, absolutely. The the other thing that made the other plus is because we have our fingers in this pie so much, we do catch a lot of the people doing the work,

you know, we can kind of get without permits and we like our permits because we get permit fees for those. So, um you know, we don't want to let those go by the wayside. there. You want oversight on your permit process and you also if you're going to do that, you want the fees from them, too. So, great. Look forward to hearing more about that. Yes, sir. We'll we'll prepare a report. We'll put together something for the board. Okay. What's your just generally speaking, if you had an opinion today whether we would retain that or let VMRC take care of that, what's your opinion? Well, 10 years ago we had the discussion and I was opposed to it because it was fairly easy. I'm probably at least 5050 right now.

Okay. Um I was probably 9010 before I thought we should keep it because it wasn't as cumbersome and quite frankly I moved this stuff along pretty quick. I didn't I just facilitated it. I wasn't getting absorbed in it. I just moved it along. So it wasn't as big a deal, but that it's because of the code changes, you're forced to indulge yourself more into it than when I did it. So I'm probably 50/50 or maybe even 6040.

Yeah. And in interest of total disclosure, I've heard from some of the marine contractors and the staff overturn with the MRC and some of these state agencies had a little bit of a hand in it, too. cuz you get a new state official, they're learning this stuff or they're putting a different lens on it. It it's uh challenging when you're used to what somebody's telling you this is what the reg say and now there's a new sheriff in town say oh no that's not this is it. So there's some of that in play too and we're in the middle of that. Yeah we are. Absolutely. And Mr. Long as you share the same opinion that you're 5050 6040

putting you on this There's plenty to do if we take this if we took this off his plate. I there is a lot in that department to do that he could we could catch up on. So there's plenty to do. Like like Matt said, we could work on that ordinance for the next 20 years and probably not get it where where we want it to be. It's I would say I I enjoy working with the local people. It helps to come here to do it. But I will say examples that are coming up that some things that we express out like living shorelines that we don't really collect a lot for and if it backfires it consumes a lot of my time to make them come back and get

see and I asked that question because my opinion is if you're going to force residents to have to go to Na News correct that's what you said or uh Hampton then I think it's at 4 where yeah that general it's in Middle Sex. I would think that that would put a little bit of undue pressure on who's submitting the application for what. And in house, yeah, maybe a little more work, but it gives us a little more insight of what we could do or not do and or sell it to VMRC, right? As opposed to the resident trying to sell that. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. But just just recently, just an example, u Mark was involved in a a process where the permits weren't in our jurisdiction and they weren't constructed properly. Now they are in our jurisdiction. So he's getting correspondence from the state. What are you going to do about it when it was their issued permit in the first place? This is in their jurisdiction. It was in their jurisdiction. constructed, right? Now they've given it to us. Now it's in our jurisdiction and they're saying, "What are you going to do about it?"

So, it it Why don't It seems like it was their permit. It was in their jurisdiction if it wasn't done correctly. Shouldn't they be the ones to be uh taking action against it rather than us? So, those are those are examples of the complexities of these new living shorelines and that type of thing. I get it. So, anyway, much much more complicated than it was 10 years ago. Yeah, sure. States that any any violations default back to the local wetland for so we have to jump in. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. Yes, sir. Anything else? We'll we'll uh keep you it might be worthwhile just to kind of

explore think about it and explore what you think and how it impacts the citizens of the county. I I think you probably need more information to make any type of judgment. Right. Thank y'all. Yes sir. Thank you.

Okay. Administrative updates. Cigarette tax report only. A staff report uh report only 84 to 96 page number. ERP software update an Marie page 97 and tree thinning performance agreement request approval. Hmel airfield. I assume we need to talk about that. Well, maybe not a request for approval, but definitely something to get on y'all's um thought processes. And I'll cover this. Um hopefully you've had a chance to look over the agreements, discuss this with John McGreder, who is the forestry uh entity that helped us timber the property last time. U he he's been by there a number of times, and he says, "Matt, the propertyy's really ripe for thinning if you want that stand to grow in healthy." and and most productively needs to be thinned, selectively thinned. And uh for those of you who don't know, John McGrder serves on the the planning district commission with Wayne, Reggie, and myself, so we know him very well. Um he called me while we were out for the snow and said, "Hey, do you want me to forward you some information on this?" I said, "Yeah, please go ahead and do it." Um he's got his agreement in here. He's also got a a a sample contract with a timberer or lumberer. Uh many of you probably already caught the typo on the first page. I brought that to John's attention. The 12%

it's 20. It's a typo. Uh 12% would be for a large stand where more um more profit potential would be there for the sale of the thin timber. Um, I talked to John as late as this afternoon about this and he said on a project that small, his commission as the uh, forestry consultant would be roughly less than $1,000 because you're not expected to get a lot of pulpwood out of that size pine. and uh he wasn't us well I'm just going to say this for the board's he wasn't aware whether this would even be covered under a procurement or maybe under a small purchase policy or something like that. I've been discussing it with Heather since it came up during our snow days and it's kind of odd because we're paying a consultant to go out there and selectively thin our trees and then the trees get sold to the paper mill. We're not driving them to Franklin. they're going to one source uh for pulp wood and whatever we get for them we get and then they get a portion of that. So we're basically sharing a sale of timber with a consultant. Uh I told him I'd bring never done this before. Told him I'd bring it to the board. I think last time when John and his group were here we timbered the site completely

and then planted it back into pine. So he's very familiar with the site. He did it last time. Um I can't speak enough about John. I think he's a stand-up guy and I think if he went back out there and selectively timbered the property it'd be done right. Uh and you know he's got a good reputation. So I I'm putting this in front of the board not expecting action on it tonight. Um, but maybe to get some direction. Uh, in the conversations I've had with Heather, we could definitely put this out for bid and see other people that do it and maybe hire a different consultant, but the fee is less than $1,000. I don't know if it's worth the time and effort of putting it out for bid. And in discussions with Amarie today, uh, one of our staff members is a timber guy. He had his own timber company for 20 years and he felt confident he can go out there and do the selective thinning on our behalf as a county employee u our maintenance uh staff person. So, I know just enough about this to be dangerous tonight, gentlemen, but what's your pleasure?

How many acres is it? About 18. 18. About 18. And it's roughly I don't know. You said that you remember when it was clearcut and it's been replanted. I think it's been over 20 years ago. I want to think we the county timbered that right before I came on board as planning director. It was 18 years ago. Like 2005. Yeah, about 18 years ago. It's clearcut and then we planted it back and then we and now you just want to thin it out. So I guess the other trees can be bigger when they grow when you harvest again. And that's basically that's all about and his 20% is based on the total of what's sold off the property. Yeah. And he's estimating that to come in his his commission the 20% would be about a thousand bucks or less. Right.

So it's not a terrible amount of money. his commission. His commission and you think about it's not really costing the county anything. You're just thinning it for future cutting to make get more timber in the future, maybe in another 20 years. Then you got then you can clear cut everything and you get you'll get more money. If the board wanted to move forward with with Mr. McGrder's firm, uh Three Rivers Forestry is our consultant. Um I know Heather wants a crack at that contract. Uh there's one paragraph in particular that she wants to reward in sub in almost in its entirety. Going to remove it. It's just the arbitration clause. There you go. Um

so I mean this is a sample contract. Heather would have to look at it. I've never thinned trees before, gentlemen. I'm going to say that for the third time. Um but this looks like it's pretty standard to me. What's what's the board's pleasure? Do you want to uh wait until the March meeting to make a firm decision on it or are you ready to do something on it? Now, if we use that 20% figure and he's saying that that would be about a,000 or less for him, then I think that's saying that there's about $5,000 worth of material that you're going to take out of there. Yeah.

So, we're not looking at a lot of money here as far as the big picture. I mean, I think like Wayne's saying, it's basically a maintenance thing that we're doing here. we get thin in trees. So, well, and as a caveat to all of this, uh we have an adjoining property owner that wants to know what we do with it because they want to tag on and have their property thin too with whoever we choose under some sort of separate agreement. Yeah, separate agreement. Separate from us. While he's there while he's there. That's right. I mean, I think it's proper maintenance to thin it. Okay.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'll I'll make a motion we go ahead and uh uh provide a how do we want to say this? Uh maintenance agreement. Yep. Yeah. With uh what we got there? Three performance. Three rivers forestry. Is there a second? Second. Motion made uh to thin the property at Hmel Field by Mr. Wayne Jesse and second by Mr. Bill Harris. Any further discussion? Roll call, please.

That's me, but I was trying to write a I was trying to write the motion and I'm not sure I got it. But Mr. Kittinden, yes. Mr. Jesse, yes. Mr. Williams, yes. Mr. Bill Harris, yes. And Mr. Don Harris, yes. Thank you, gentlemen. Motion's approved. And can I clarify? Yes. Yes. This is to enter into an agreement with Three Rivers Forestry to pursue the maintenance thinning. Thinning. Okay. Yep. Thank you, gentlemen. That's all I have. All right. Wonderful. Okay. Uh county attorney update. No, sir. I don't have anything beyond my staff report.

All right. And uh let's go with uh unfinished andor uh let's do unfinished business. Anything particular, Mr. Walker? All right. New business.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Um, we're uh as as I think hopefully the board members are aware, we our our noise ordinance in the county has uh uh been called into question certainly it probably unconstitutional according to was it the Virginia uh Virginia Beach uh court and um so right now we don't really have a noise ordinance and I have uh I've had complaints in my district and I'm I don't know if you have, but I I I've investigated uh some of them and I found that they they really are problems and I think it's something that we need to address. So, uh so the the county attorney and I have been working on a uh on a draft bill here to ordinance to see if uh we can remedy that situation. It's in your packet and um I I understand this has this would have to be laid aside for and posted. Is that correct?

Right. Yes. Yes.

And uh and I have I have a couple of people I think at least one I know for sure who's called me incessantly and said that she'd be more than happy to come to a public hearing and explain her her dilemma. Um so I think that and I have discussed this um this matter with the sheriff and he doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Um he he he has I don't know that he's seen this this you know this actually in writing but in principle he he agrees that it is a problem and it uh and it should be taken care of. Um there are various ways that um we we've we've looked at at various ordinances around the state, different counties, and some of them depend on noise measuring devices, decibel meters, uh decibel meters that would I I I would assume that if we had something like that, we would uh have to equip all the the deputies with meters at some expense. And then they'd also have to have uh training and probably some sort of inservice training along the way to uh to keep it. Uh this particular one is based on some other ordinances which which instead of measuring the sound, it measures the distance that the sound is traveling.

And uh so the only thing that the that I guess theoretically that the deputies would have to carry be a tape measure. And I don't think they're going to need any special training for that. And so, um, so I I I think that if if if you would look it over, I I I believe that this is, uh, this is pretty well written. It covers a lot. It also covers, you'll notice in their animal noises, which I think, would we get that from Essex? Uh, yes, sir, I did actually. Essex had a really well well-written, very simple uh, language in there and their sheriff's had success enforcing it. I that I couldn't tell you. But um Well, I think he has

Oh, okay. Yes, sir. I'm I'm I'm not disagreeing, but um yeah, and just for clarification, it's the Virginia Supreme Court uh based on a Virginia Beach case. basically everybody in the Commonwealth um in the mid 2000s had the same type of noise ordinance and it was challenged in Virginia Beach by a nightclub and the Virginia and it went all the way up to the Virginia Supreme Court and the Virginia Supreme Court found that um it was too vague. It was unconstitutionally vague that a reasonable person couldn't determine what exactly they were violating. So with that being said um that's why you know we we need to review this. So, the draft that we've put together would repeal our current noise ordinance because you really need to just wipe that off and start clean. Um, and and as Randy was pointing out, you know, we we tried to address the things that I've heard from different districts over the years that I've been here and and you've heard with yours. So, and this would be based on distance, right? So, if the deputy pulls up and he can hear the music and he's four houses down, that's a problem. But I think we put it at about 50 feet. Um, so I'm happy to answer any questions. The way this would work is if it's the pleasure of the majority of the board, you would uh direct that this be sent to public hearing. We would advertise it appropriately and schedule it for public hearing at your next uh board meeting in March. And then you would have an opportunity, the public could present their opinions about it, questions, concerns, and again, if it's the desire of the majority of the board at that time, then you could adopt it and it would be in effect that, you know, upon adoption. Uh, we did address animal noises because that is one that we we we do hear quite a bit. Um, so we excluded agricultural animals. This is this is, you know, think of the dog that's been barking since 8 in the morning till 5 at night. You know, we get those.

So, they're not going to arrest me if my cow moves. No, your rooster. Well, emotional support. No, I'm teasing. No. Uh, no, sir. That's not what this is intended for. But happy to answer any questions. And I just want to say thank you, Randy, for for your help on this and reviewing that. Um, I really appreciate that. So, I I think this is something that addresses complaints that I've heard from all of your districts, specifically the um campgrounds. Yeah. What additionally was added for that? I didn't we didn't add anything specifically to address that. We we focused on um you can see here loudspeakers.

I highlighted that for that question. And I knew it was coming. Mhm. Campground. And I don't know whether it needs to be in here or not. What's their agreement with them that they'll stop after 10? Correct. That's correct. And it it's enforcable by the the security staff at the um campground first. They only call us if they're not being if they're not able to enforce. That's my understanding. So, by my interpretation of this, they have teeth where they could go into the campground and shut a party down, which needs to be shut down after 10 p.m.

Well, actually, if you scroll up, uh, Matt, it depends on I mean, we're picking loudspeakers, but it could also be above, you'll see is for radios. So, let's just say someone's having a really good jam session at their camper. Um I this is where you see the language has changed where you see under 1A plainly audible across a residential real property bound boundary or where the source is located. Um we've tried to address multiple things. I think it's well done. I mean you got your ice cream man exemption. Ice cream people don't ride around in their ice cream truck after 10 p.m. at night. Exactly.

Or they shouldn't be. So there you go. What about, you know, you know, we're I'm more a rural area. You got hunting dogs that come through. I don't know if you address that. And in this very, it's going to be very hard to address these people with the cars that you hear them booming before they get to you and you hear boom boom boom boom boom boom boom. But, you know, they go through and gone. You know, see what I'm saying? So, you know, it's it's just I think it' be I mean, it's good to to look into all this to see what we can do, but it's it's going some of these things going be hard to enforce. Well, I think and it depend on and then and two it depend on the location. Yes,

that's the that's the main thing. Location. Location is the most important thing. If you got a residential area somewhere with you got a lot of homes in the area, but look where I'm at. I just got a graveyard I got to worry about to tell you the truth. I said dead people ain't going to talk to you. But but seriously, you know, it's so many variables to

you know the town is good. They're incorporated. They got they can do that. uh uh subdivision, they they can take, you know, they got the HMO H. Yeah. They can take control that, but it's these other little rare areas is you going to have so many ups and downs just like that guy that was shooting up up on Red Hill. We had issues with that and and everybody could hear that. He didn't stop now cuz I guess bulletin went up, but

it was it was you know then then you get the NRA and then you got lawsuits and all this other stuff. It gets very convoluted, but you know, it's good to look in it to check everything, but you know, Virginia Beach is different. You got millions and millions of people down there. We're we're rural and we're scattered out and to we need to draw to something. But, you know, it it's going to be a lot of different variables that we got to look at. And that's why you have a pro public hand. We got attorney and look at all your options. But, it's going to be very interesting. I I think I think one of the things that I I would say in response is that um the best thing that I can see about this is that this is a tool that we're going to be be able to put in the law enforcement officer's toolbox that that if they go out on a on a disturbance, let's say there's a a person who just is is intentionally trying to just tick their neighbors off and this is something and whether that's in in Jamaica district or in Pinetop, it doesn't matter. It's still irritating as far as the sound of the the the the car, the boom boom. I know. It just drives me crazy. But, you know, actually, according to this, the way I'm reading it, if that if that deputy is following this car and he's he's less than he's more than 50 feet away, he can prosecute. He can he can go after it. So, I think that there's a lot of good things in this. you know, the the the dogs, you know, hunting dogs, they're not going to be too bad be uh because they're they kind of come and go and they're and they chase the rabbit or whatever the deer and then they're they're bark and they stop. This is this says, you know, if it's over a period of time, what did uh what did it say?

10 consecutive minutes. Yeah. 10 consecutive minutes across across a boundary, a residential boundary or through basically. So somebody complains and you go stand in their yard and you can hear the dog next door and he came look at your watch and 10 minutes later he's still barking. Then you go over there knock on the door and say, "Hey, your dog's barking too much. Stop it." And if you don't, we're going to have to come back with a ticket book.

No, you're right about that. But then you got somebody that had got those kennels. Those dog bought it all the time. I'm talking about the hunters that had those kennels, the little dog house. They bought all the time. Yeah, they do. I want to cut you. I know if you go anywhere in there, those dogs are barking all the time. A bunch of them in a little kiml and a lot of them in rural areas, but some of them are you can still hear. I mean, it's it's a tool that can say it's a quality of life issue for sure. Well, there there are some notable exemptions that are spelled out in the last part of the section. I've highlighted a few. No one's going to call the police on our football activities up there sports complex. Yeah. cuz that's exempted. Waterman and and I remember when I was doing planning,

we would get a we'd get a complaint about waterman cranking their boats at 4:00 a.m. and and from the same people that have barber prints in their living room. They don't want the waterman cranking his boat next to them. Hypocrisy is wonderful. Um and then lawful discharge of firearms. So if you're discharging your firearm lawful, that's exempt. So pretty pretty good job, Tyler. How about when the noise goes across um county lines? That's when the fun begin. That's when I go nose goes. Um I mean yeah I'm not sure what's the answer on that. I'd have to look into that.

There's place in places in the county that gets lit up from across from another county at times with the noise. Yes. And and so that is something we've kind of we um you know Randy we and it's something I've heard in the Saluda district and also you know um where the butts up to Wayne's district read the racetrack. I mean cut off the racetrack. I had a lady from over the river complain about the noise from the racetrack. Yeah. And she's on the side of the river. I mean there's not much we can do about for example if somebody is doing something on the water across the river. I mean there's just only so much we can do. But

so does that weaken this then? In other words, if you're having that noise problem coming from another district and we can't do anything about it, are you able to uphold what's happening in our district in court is what I'm Well, yes, sir. I mean, because if if the locality hasn't I mean, it would depend on whether that locality has adopted a noise ordinance. And if they have, then if the deputy called me and said, "I'm standing at the water. I can hear it from Lancaster. I need Okay. Well, let's look and see if Lancaster has a noise ordinance and we'll call their deputy, right? Like I mean, there's a way to get to it, but I'm I wouldn't be concerned about the enforcability here in Middle Sex on that. Well, we could tell the person from Essics or King and Queen, oh yeah, it's in our ordinance. It's exempt.

There's a couple places on the P light it up in the Yeah. Race plays are

exemp and so, you know, this is here for the board's discussion and consideration. Um, it has come up numerous times during my tenure and as as Wayne has pointed out and as Randy has found out as we've been working on it. You know, it's it's it's it um there's a lot of factors to consider and there's a lot of situations that are going to come up that this could be helpful or maybe it's not as helpful. This is up for y'all's debate and and I welcome your input and questions and I'm happy to make revisions or provide more information, but we wanted to try and present something. And I know Randy, I would say his district in Hartfield. I would say I hear quite a bit from citizens pretty regularly, a couple times a year about complaints about noise. Um or through the deputies really. That's who calls me and says, "I've got an issue and how can I help the citizen?" So, so with that, gentlemen, it's

I don't I don't see in here, and maybe I missed it, which is highly possible. I don't see in here or is it in there when you talked about measuring the decibel level?

We are not doing that. So that is what um that is what came from the Virginia Beach case that the Virginia Supreme Court said uh as part of its ruling. It basically said to the localities in the Commonwealth, you've got to have a more measurable way of of determining whether the noise is a nuisance or not. So either it's got to be measured by distance or it's got to be the decimal meters, right? You have to have something more concretely than it was. It was very vague language initially that said basically it it bothered a reasonable person. I'm butchering that, but that was the gist of it. So we did not go with um Randy, I believe you could speak to this. You spoke to the sheriff and and the distance was more amanable. I don't want to speak for your conversation, but maybe you could talk about that. Yeah, he he um he indicated that that it it would be he he would like to see something in place that could be enforcable. Um, and I mentioned to him, I said about the decibel and he said, "Yeah, that would be it could be a problem as far as uh um, you know, having, you know, buying the buying the devices, having them certified, having the officers certified, having them be, you know, for inservice training and that sort of thing. That might be that might be a problem." Um and and and he he seemed to be very he said, you know, look, I think we need it. You know, he said we we've in the past we have uh we seem to have been reluctant to to to do to enforce it, but I think this would be something that, you know, if and to me if the if the if for whatever reason if the sheriff or you know, if we have a new sheriff and they decide they're they're not going to enforce it or they're not going to do whatever There's nothing we can do. But well, we can we want to give them the tool to do it to

fix these problems. But, you know, just to reiterate, I I know that just sort of, you know, to give you an example, when my mother had a house down of Martin Lane in in Deltaville and there was a house that was behind another house and it was at least 100 yards away and you could sit in her living room with the doors and the windows closed and hear and be able to identify what song they were playing. And that would be all day long. And and I know that the deputies had gone out there to talk to these people and they just said, "Well, there's no law against it. We're going to do it." And I think they were just doing it to to to irritate their neighbors. And so, uh, and I think that this is the type of thing that we need to have to be able to fix that. So I'm a little confused without having which is not in this document a a noise decibel reading with that with that being said with the additions or changes or adding this what would be your guess of what would be enforcable out of 10 complaints that came in without having that decibel information or can we even prosecute? I think it's good that we don't have it. Now you have one. Uh that in itself would you know be um you know going to that spot and saying hey we do have a noise uh

ordinance. Yes sir. So I so I apologize I didn't mean to create further confusion. So I'll add clarification. We had uh I am very confident there's her famous last words. I'm very confident that we've used language uh the wheel has not been reinvented here gentlemen. I I we went to localities that have had success in enforcing and so we had two options and we're using distance to measure whether the sound is a nuisance or not which the Virginia Supreme Court said was okay. You had two options. You either had to get the meter Yeah. apparatus, right? Which requires cost and training, right? And calibration.

And calibration. Thank you. Or you have to be very specific such as distance. And so that is what we've done. We've e we've said like 50 ft from the source, right? So, um I I'm confident that in in in Ry's situation, if we had a call with his mother's home and it's over 100 yards or over 100 ft, right? Um the deputy could testify to that and and and I would feel confident in the enforcement of that. I got I got a question on that. If you got the body cam recording Mhm. you got the distance, wouldn't that suffice in court? That helps.

Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Well, you know, well, you know, you can say you you got it. You got the recording. This is what happened. That help. Think about that. So, why would you need all these desolles and all this other stuff? I mean, right? That's what a body cam giving you actual footage of what's going on. Think about that. So, that's a great point cuz cuz I think we need something like that. The body cam, it get covers two things.

It does. There was just two schools of thought after this case came out. Do you want to have the tape measure for simplicity sake, let's call it that, the tape measure, or do you want to have the decibel meter, right? The actual tool that measures sound. It's no different than when uh they use radar for speeding, right? What's the question defense always ask? When when's your when's it been calibrated? I'm sure you're familiar with that, Randy. Um, and the officer says it was calibrated yesterday. Here's the certificate, right? Um, so yes, but you're I that's an excellent point about the body cameras. That'll be really helpful. Um, so you know, yeah. Do we know a number of what a decel reader would cost?

I can Oh, sure. Yeah. I I did not look into it because it hadn't been I did and uh they range anywhere from about to get one that's decent. It looked like it costs anywhere from about $300 to unit to about $2,000 a unit. So you can I can guarantee you what we would be requested to fund.

Well, and I won't be on board. I might I think this is all wonderful and great and I think we ought to possibly get the public's opinion of it. Go with it with the distance and see how that develops. This is what I would want to know before I wanted to fund any money for a decibel reader is how many complaints did you have? How many were you able to or not able to go to court to enforce? Well, is this one using decimal meters? It is not. No. Yeah. So, we we avoid all that. Yeah. So, that and that's an excellent point that we can always Sorry. Go ahead.

Well, I'm chiming in too much because I was just going to sit back and listen. But having something like this on the books and having uh our sheriff publicly go on record saying, "I will enforce this. This is enforceable. You've given me something that I have logistical capabilities of enforcing." Somebody's going to get a warning and they're going to turn a radio off. You would almost you would think be Yeah. You would almost have to invite being prosecuted. That's why having it on the books cuz the deputies going to show, hey, look, we got this ordinance. You're in violation. Yeah. Well, two things to measure. I don't like I said, I don't know that he's actually seen this in writing. He's he's talked to it in principle. Yes, he would. He would.

Well, if it works in other counties, he'll just do what they do. And and the other thing as far as the the the the cameras, it I think in court it would also be a real bonus with the with the with the body cams to say, "Your honor, I went up to the door. I knocked on the door. This is what the guy said when I told him the noise was too loud and I could hear it two blocks away." And I think that's something that the judge would love to see. So Okay. Um, yeah, like I said, I'm I'm in favor of to it to a certain point. I can tell you I won't vote to fund 17 decel, but we'll pay for Well, and we're not asking for that. So, I will buy a tape measure if I

Well, and that's measure, right? Um, so so it's it's up to the board. It's it's your pleasure. You can table this matter. It's under new business. So, procedurally, it's up to you to decide how you'd like to move forward or if you need some more time to digest and review. Again, um I'm sorry, Mr. Bill. I think the public should be able to look at it. Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, they're they're able to review it, but yes, sir. If if that's the will, we can advertise it and um schedule a public hearing for your March meeting. Happy to. Or if you want to schedule it for April, whatever you gentlemen want. you tell me when and where and we'll get the notices and um go from there.

I'm really good with either one. Personally, I think we want to do that in April and not in March. We got a lot of things going on in March. And uh not that this isn't important, but I'd like to digest it and think about it a little bit um and maybe think about putting it on the public hearing for April. But I'm only one of five. What you guys want to do? That's fine. Are y'all good with that? I agree with you. Everybody good with that?

Okay. So, there appears to be a consensus for the record that uh you're on board. The consensus is you're directing staff to place this on the public hearing agenda for the April meeting. Okay. Correct. Happy to do that. I will um now we may have some additions or subtractions after we look at this a little closer. But I'm very confident that uh if you and Randy have been working on it, I'm pretty confident it's probably pretty close to where it needs to go.

Wonderful. And and I heard you, Randy. I will be happy to send this um to the sheriff as well for his review. I mean, obviously it's in the packet. I I wanted the board's input so they could give me I didn't know how the rest of the board felt and so I will absolutely send it to him as well. How about the Commonwealth attorney? Oh yes sir. I'm sure I can send it to him too. Yeah, you should. Sure. Happy to. I also typically send these things to uh codes and enforcement as well. So I will send it to the usual suspects.

Okay. All right. Cool. um matters presenting presented by the board and I'm going to start as usual with our senior board member Mr. Jesse. Well, I had quite a few of them postpone because the weather did the old emergency service meeting. Uh that went really well. We had a new emergency. What was the guy named Randy? You going to have to refresh my name my my memory on that. um with the uh 911. There's a guy named was his name Ran uh R I didn't write my notes down, but anyway, uh they had a new guy that's helps out with the 911 center and the ins and outs and things that we're supposed to be doing with the other employees there. And I think they're a little short-handed, but they're probably still trying to interview and get more people there in the 911 center. And that's it for me on my

commission. Um, other than my meeting with the sheriff and uh in the public safety committee, I have nothing less. Okay. Um, I don't I don't have anything particular um of any urgency to talk about. Um, so I'll move to Mr. Harris, Bill Harris.

I would like to thank everyone. Um, we just came through this weather event. Things are getting better now, but I know a lot of people were out there doing it the whole time. The fire and police never stopped. I know we're all very appreciative of that. And VOTE and the contractors, they were on the roads. They were they were here working. And I know the whole board appreciates everyone's effort. And u I'll say thank you, Mr. Williams.

Went to the middle of an meeting. I found that uh pretty interesting especially with the uh girl that done the reassessment and she said some things that I ask the board everybody should read what she said when you're talking about process use numbers and how you keep your books and everything up to date and that part was very uh very important and as we was talking about noise allowance and brother Jesse said like we stay in a rural area and I know we stay in a rural area but See, I had experience sometime you got to experience things yourself and uh we came out I don't know maybe two or three years we was talking about a lease law for thugs and where it went and said we staying in a in a rural area so dogs can run loose anywhere they want to run loose. What the experience I had was that uh Doug was running on my property and they were pet bulls

and they ran me back in the house and but at the same time I also noticed that my little dog that my wife's little dog she pretty close to it and uh you know was kind of like out in the yard. I called 911 and you know a dog came up on my deck and I went on back in the house and they sent somebody out and stuff like that. To make a long story short, we don't have a lease law in Mississippi County, but we don't have a responsibility of animal now. There more animals now anywhere at any time in this county. And we are not having no uh I'm control might be the right word I uh use, but we have zero control of them. And some of them got that special gene that tell you what type of Doug and it's a lot of them. And most of y'all know what I'm talking about in the experience end up you you uh my wife won't at home so left me you know there you know and you was a guy and you stay home and and anything happen you know it's your fault if you're there so you know how you feel if you're not there

but the thing that is not funny is that you know uh uh these roaming we could say roaming because they had no this is true now what I'm saying I want y'all to know if y'all listening And it was two pet bulls and one of them was ugly one and I mean you be scared of it. Yeah, I got you.

And I'm going repeat again when he broke round and I called it called my dog called my wife's dog and these two things running for man way here. I went on the house you know I called 911 and he came out and then I turned around called my son cuz I know my son has some stuff. He He said, "Popa, go to the house." He said, "These dogs have jumped right through the window." So, I'm standing back talking to him and they went up there and jumped everything on and my wife came back time. I didn't know how to tell her. Okay. I I really didn't know how to say it. Killed you though. Yeah. The the little five, you know, five, six pound. My wife dove. Yeah. Yeah.

And you know, I went there. I went there and called a man to come up and he said, "Well, did you see any blood? Did you see it actually happen?" So they kind of put your hands in a stribe. Do you look see happen? I said, "But he was on my property." And that's what I'm saying. I'm in a rural area. Who's going to be responsible for somebody else's dug? Especially if it Doug had a special gene and they will say, "Well, it's okay, man, because he my pet." Well, I guarantee you, get on the news or get on your phone. Your pet might not be my friend,

you know. So, and that's the the only thing I had from the last meeting. And and you know, and I'm I'm a simple guy and some things I might not might saying. I said, you know, you come, hey, man, I'm sorry. Then you got to beg your wife this that and the other and all this kind of stuff. But if you don't make no effort, I'm about the worst guy you can deal with, you know. Are you suggesting we need to look at the dome ordinance? I'm We definitely need to look at accountability. Yeah. Of Doug and definitely addresses they own somebody else on your property. Make it very simple. I'm talking own property.

I've been I've been contacted by people having concern over our current dog. That's what it is as well. Owners have got to ultimately be responsible for their pets. If they can't control their pet, the pet's not your pet. You're the pet to that pet. It's a fancy way of saying a lot of people buy dogs they cannot control. They have no hopes of controlling them. And it Reggie, you're talking about that gene ownership. You got to be a responsible dog owner. If if you can't control your pet, then the pet's controlling you. And and that takes a little bit of self- evvaluation. Can I own a pitbull? Can I own a a Belgian? Yeah. Malam.

Can I own those dogs? Because if you're not the alpha of that pack, that dog's going to run rough shot over you and the community around it. And as a taxpayer, I don't want to be financially responsible for them. I want the owners to be responsible for their property, their pets, their fur babies, whatever. Okay. Well, that's some something maybe we can think about and talk about. If though in that case that it's dogs that are on your property and you call the dog warden or even that your dog got killed, doesn't the dog warden get involved in that or pick up the dogs and take them back to there?

We going to find Okay. I'd be curious to know, you know, what the legal obligation is currently here with uh that scenario. I mean, are they cited by the dog warden? Do they have to go to court? I mean, I don't know any of that information. So, it'd be nice to know. Okay.

So, Mr. Williams brought up a comment under uh new business. Is that a and and and Bill kind of suggested, do you want me to look into uh you know, maybe the nuances of the leash law? I I know previously there's been concerns about hunting dogs and things of that sort. Um I I'm happy to look into that and provide a memo on on some of the updates on the code there and maybe some recommendations look into it a little bit. Would that be helpful? Yes, it would be helpful. I think it's going to be difficult. You know, the town of Urbana it's easier to enforce that than it is in the broad county concept.

Sure. So, and I don't even know if if we wanted to do something that it would be um advantageous for us to have a leash law. Sure. Well, uh it may have to be something lighter than uh what the town may have or you know, small communities may or may not have. Yeah, it'd be interesting to know some of that information.

Absolutely. Yeah, we need to we need to make sure we maintain our rules, but also I think it is a good force to look at it. Uh, also though, there's a lot of the insurance companies, they're they'll designate certain breeds that they're not looking at insuring you if they're on your property, if you own one. Yes, sir. So when you're looking and doing your research, I don't know if some way that's incorporated into the overall policy or what, but uh I I think the fact that insurance companies won't insure that's says a pretty strong message.

Yes, sir, it does. Yes, I'll be Yeah, absolutely. I'll look into that. I think um you know, it's a great as as Matt would say, a great segue because I know Amarie and I were talking about some other updates to the animal control ordinance feeswise to make sure that we're matching what other localities are doing. So, it could be an excellent opportunity, but I will absolutely look into that. Give me some time to to research that. I I know it's come up periodically. And currently, we have some subdivisions that have adopted essentially a leash law because the subdivision could be very, you know, very close quarters, but um yeah, let me work on that. And I'm I'm so sorry, Mr. Williams, Reggie, we've talked about this, you know, about the loss of your dog.

Okay, wonderful. Good discussion. Uh moving right along. Uh, we're now at the point of public comment and I'm going to open the floor for anybody that would like to publicly speak. Mr. Ricardi, I do not have any listed public speakers at this time. Look like it were pretty limited on people out there. Bob, you got anything you'd like to say?

Night tonight. Okay, I'll take that as a plus. Okay. Um, I'm going to close public comment and the next item is and I'll let attorney do the uh Yes, sir. So, we'll be going into close session. I do not know if we'll be taking action afterwards and I do not know how long the close session will take. I do know we will be in this room because we need uh Matt needs to get his Google Earth fix. So, with that, Mr. Chairman, it would be appropriate for the board to adopt a motion to convene in close session pursuant to Virginia Code section 2.2-3711A1. This is so the board can have a discussion regarding the personnel matter of the county administrator and pursuant to Virginia Code sections 2.2-3711 A3 and A8. This is so the board can discuss about um acquiring real property for a public purpose and discussions about selling the county owned property where discussions in an open meeting would adversely affect your bargaining position. And so that you may consult with me about specific legal matters, procedures, and questions about the acquiring of the property for a public purpose and and same regarding the process and legal questions regarding the sale of county owned property. A motion would be in order to go into close session.

So move. So moved by Mr. Jesse. Second. Second by Mr. Bill Harris. Uh roll call, please. Mr. Williams. Yes. Mr. Bill Harris. Yes. Mr. Kittinden. Yes. Mr. Jesse? Yes. And Mr. Don Harris? Yes. We are going to move into close session. We're going to take about a 8 minute break. Yep. 8 to 10. And then we're going to move into co