Planning Board - Regular Meeting

All right, 6:30. I'm going to call the meeting to order. I'm going to take a roll call. Mr. Bailey here. Mr. Huffine here. Chair Dean Ward's here. Mr. Stucker here. Patrick here. Thank you. Okay, if everybody would please stand for the pledge of

allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Anyone on the board have a conflict uh tonight? Chairman, I do I am working with Waka Properties on the uh item six, the White Rock Estates project, and I would uh at some time ask to be recused from the meeting so that I can sit with my client.

We'll we'll take that vote, Mr. Minute. All right. Did everybody have a chance to review the special meeting minutes of March the 30th? And if so, is there any changes that need to be made? If not, I'll entertain a motion. So move. I'll second. All in favor?

I All right. And going to give you a brief overview of what the planning board does. There are some people here I don't recognize and you may have been here numerous times and I just didn't see you. But just to give you a general idea of what our responsibility of the board is. The city of Graham's planning and zoning board is an advisory board to the Graham City Council. It considers and makes recommendations to the council regarding any requests for changes to zoning assignments and such. City council is the final arbitrator approval or disapproval of any action. Meetings are conducted according to written published agenda. Individuals who wish to speak concerning any of the request of any of the request to be considered will be given the opportunity on public comment period for each item. Please signify by raising your hand your desire to speak and the meeting moderator, typically the board chair or the vice chair in the chair's absence will recognize you. Please come to the podium, state your name and address and voice your comment. The time limit for comments is three minutes, but may be extended by the moderator to allow questions from the board. Please maintain a respectful and civil demeanor with all comments and responses to questions. The meeting moderator will signal when an individual's time has expired and will call for the next commentator. If an individual does not respect a time limit, speaks out from the audience without being recognized by the moderator, or is disrespectful of the board, they will be subject to removal from the meeting. Once the public comment period has been closed by the moderator, further comment from the audience will be deemed out of order. Individuals not respecting this will be

subject to removal. Thank you for your cooperation there. All right. Um, number six, new business is the White Rocky States. I understand Mr. Hopine has a conflict of interest there. And Mr. Hoffines, just to clarify one thing, you are gaining financially for working from them. That's correct. Uh, Mr. Watkins is our employer on this project. Um, we're serving as a civil engineering consultant and uh I would not be an objective uh member of the board uh sitting to hear the case.

Thank you. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Huffine? If not, I move that make a motion that Mr. Hop be excused. Second. All in favor. Any opposed? Okay. Okay, Cameron 6A, please.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, so what you all have in front of you today, or tonight, I should say, is a request to reszone um 10.05 05 acres of property from R18 low density residential to CR conditional residential for the purpose of constructing um as shown on the plan 17 tiny homes and 10 customuilt homes separated by a pond on site and connecting the two sides via a walking path. Uh the tiny home section of the development will be served by private roads and the custom home section will be served by public roads. Both sections intend to connect to public water and sewer. Uh the development will have a 10- foot wide type D buffer landscaping buffer surrounding the development uh proposed of existing vegetation if possible as stated on the plans. The applicant has requested a condition um regarding minimum lot size and setbacks for both the tiny homes and customuilt homes. Both of those measurements can be found on the site plan. The applicant has also provided affidavit in your packet showing the intent to purchase land to provide access into the development if the project is approved. Um the entirety of the lot falls within the suburban residential future land use zone. Uh the future land use plan mentions the principal uses in the zone are predominantly detached single family homes. Um and that new neighborhoods may include a range of duplexes, town homes, and smallcale multif family dwellings of 12 units or less. Uh the future land use plan also states that appropriate density inside of the zone is 3 to six dwelling units per acre. Uh the current lot layout of 27 homes would fall just shy of the 3 to six dwelling units per acre. Um with there being a raperian buffer and pond on the lot, some of the area is to be considered undevelopable. Um so taking out um that area, the total lot coverage um and total area of roads and sidewalk has come out closer to 4.59 acres. Um, and that acreage would allow

for 27.54 lots to be developed uh based on the six dwelling units per acre with some additional room to increase that number based upon open space not inside the riperian buffer zone. And that is all that I have. Yes, sir.

I'm open. The meeting now is a representative from WACA properties here. Good afternoon. My name is Michael Watkins and uh I am the uh CEO of Waka Properties and I'm here today to um with my team to uh present our proposal for White Rock Estates and uh if we can go to the uh presentation that we prepared for you. While we get this pulled up, Mr. Watkins, do you mind providing us with your address, please?

Yes. Uh, my current address is uh 940 Dickerson Drive in Troy, Ohio. I'm currently in the process of relocating back to my home town, which is Raleigh. I spent 45 years in corporate America, traveling the United States and abroad, and uh retired two years ago, and I'm making my way back uh to North Carolina in the Raleigh area. So, um, from an agenda standpoint, if you can go to the next slide, uh, Cameron, uh, we're going to try to give you a good overview of the project relative to our vision for the project. Uh, we're going to share with you a project video to kind of give you a good uh, overview. Uh we'll go through a couple slides on the site plan. Uh the type and number of units that we're considering, a request for deviations and other conditions, proposed phasing of the project, and then lastly, some uh potential request and support uh from the city council and uh uh and then we'll open it up uh for Q&A. So, with that being said, uh, Cameron, if you would bring us up to a video, I would appreciate. WAKA Properties is pleased to introduce White Rock Estates in Graham, North Carolina. White Rock Estates will be a private gated upscale micro community that will feature small to medium-sized homes secluded and situated on 10 acres with 1/8 to 1/2acre wooded lots. The homes will be mostly single level with some multi-level units with elevator and stairlift provisions. The community will feature two separate but connected sections. One featuring tiny homes from 600 to,200 square ft and the other section featuring custom homes from 1,200 to 2500 square ft. The

community will be featuring an open pergola, fire pit, open seating, and swings along with walking trails with golf cart provisions throughout the property and around the one plus acre pond with waterfall and fountain features including resident fishing privileges. White Rock Estates will be Graham's premier adult active lifestyle living community designed with thoughtful modern home designs and personalization options focused on accessibility and safety, lowmaintenance living, health, wellness, social and recreational amenities and features. White Rock Estates will be an affordable micro community with microsized homes and an environment that's packed with exclusive features and amenities designed for active and peaceful lifestyle living coming fall 2026. More to come soon from Waka Properties on White Rock Estates in Graham, North Carolina.

Thank you. So, uh, we'll get back to the presentation and, um, in addition to the video, I'll walk you through a few of the, um, key features as it relates to the vision of White Rock Estates. Um, one of the, uh, primary things that we're trying to accomplish is is to keep the community private and gated and upscale looking community. Uh, one of the principles that we're going for is to ensure that we can maintain the topography and the environment as much as possible. So, we're looking at secluded situated uh on wooded lots anywhere from one uh four to half an acre. And it's a micro community featuring small to mediumsiz homes. So, it impacts the affordability with tiny homes uh section anywhere between 600 and 1,200 square ft and the custom home section between 1,200 and 2500 square ft. will feature a open pergola as you heard on the video. Uh open seating as you walk around the trail, a fire pit, wa walking trails, waterfall and fountain features. We're going for sustainable, energy efficient features in within the homes. And we're looking for this community to be an active adult lifestyle community. So, um, we're looking at accessibility and safety, lowmaintenance living, health and wellness amenities, social and recreational features, and the home designs to be u featuring single family homes. Uh, and some multilevel and the multi-level units will have a stair lift or or uh elevator features uh that can

be um uh selected with the units. And the homes uh will also include uh like I said walk-in tubs and showers and those things for an aging uh uh community. But one of the critical things that we want to do is do selective uh cut in this environment. Uh when I purchased the property, one of the things that um Miss Huey was very adamant about was stripping the land and and and not preserving the natural environment. So, one of the things that we Royal wanted to do with this community is preserve that as much as possible to keep as much green space, keep as many trees as we possibly can and and uh and foster that sort of environment. Next slide, please. So, this area is a great area. Um, it sits right between the research triangle and the Pont and the uh Peont Triad. So, it's attracting professionals and and and and folks that are looking for a lower cost of living and we think that this community offers that to the growing environment. Next slide, please. So, the layout for White Rock Estates, we see in two sections. Um, as everybody here knows, uh, it's about 10 plus acres with the one plus acre pond sits on the corner of Hanford and and West Moore and a little bit less than two miles from the interstate. And we have two separate sections. The west what we call the west lake section will feature the tiny homes and the east lake section will will feature the custom homes. Next slide, please. So the the site lot is is is uh currently divided into two sections. In the tiny home section, we're planning for 17 units. And in the custom home side, which would be the larger lots, we

currently have 10 homes planned in in that in that uh area. Next slide, please. As you can see from a utility standpoint, we're tapping in the existing uh city utilities uh for water and sewer and uh and we'll also be uh uh running a uh uh utility easement that will be running across the bottom there over to the new uh Hanford Landing uh subdivision that is being put in. And uh that will give us a gravity feed uh for our sewer. Next slide. And this is the area u that will need to be in the green that will uh be the easement for the underground um utility. And on the right uh that strip will be to make the easement wider for private uh road. and at the top just a a small little section to get the right um entry off of Moore Street into the into the uh into the community. Next slide. As you can see, these are the types of uh of uh custom homes that we're we're looking at. Um anywhere between 1,200 and um and 2500 square ft plus. Some will have a walk out or basement. So, some will probably get up close to uh 2500 to 3,000 square feet. And this is the tiny home size. As you can see, some of the uh look and feel for it is is nice and open and airy. And as you can see, several of the uh pictures here show types of units that are integrated in with the topography and with the uh the landscape that we

have to work with there. This is a a representative sample of of one of the sections of the tiny home u between slots 13 and four. And it kind of gives you a flavor for how the homes will be situated on that topography that we have there. We have a road running down the center and on the left will be a little bit lower, on the right a little bit higher. And the idea is each unit will have a line of sight to the pond area. So it' be very uh attractive for homeowners. Next slide. I'm not going to go through this in in in detail, but these are the uh proposed uh zoning conditions. Uh the project proposes zoning change from R18 uh to the residential zoning CR with the average of three units per per acre. Um we're proposing all single family homes, residential, uh public and private street. Um I think we're proposing two parking uh for lots for each home. Uh the project proposes sidewalks on both sides of the public and the private street and roll curbs throughout. The project proposes connecting to the municipality water and sewer as mentioned earlier and the homeowners will do will have a self-managed homeowners association. So the owners will manage the pro the uh community themselves instead of having a an outside management um firm come in. Um the common areas and open space and and private easement and rightaways are common features uh for maintenance and control uh under the ownership of the homeowners association. The project

again offers two distinct uh um home types. Um like I said, the western side with the tiny homes and the eastern side with the custom homes. The real uh uh thing that I want to stress here is again the project proposes architectural integration of the construction of the homes where they're situated into the natural environment. And again, our plan is to keep as many trees as we possibly can. Next slide, please. Um Chad or John, you want to comment on the open space? We My name is John Oglesby. I'm with CSD Engineering. I'm Blur located at uh 375 East Third Street in Windendell, North Carolina. We've moved recently. So anyway, open space uh we calculated open space from basically the areas that we cannot uh touch which are the natural areas of the Is that better? No, I was see

and what we have proposed is a nature trail through the repairarium buffers and that to count as active open space and also there will be fishing amenities and uh gathering spots around the pond. So we're counting that as active open space. Everything else is passive. That's how we calculated it. Is there any any questions about that or you want me to add anything? That's good. Next slide.

So our plan is to um phase the project in three phases. The first phase will be site prep and infrastructure. Um, second phase being the the tiny home section where we will uh plan for at least two models to show the various uh home designs that we have and uh follow that up very closely with the custom home side where we're planning for one model with all the different uh models that we're planning to offer on the custom home side. So the overall project plan includes uh hopefully getting uh city council approval here in the second quarter. Then moving forward with project financing and phase 2 engineering in the third quarter and then project execution which includes site prep uh infrastructure construction pre-sale and close out starting in the fourth quarter and concluding in the fall of 2027. So, our White Rock team consists of uh civil engineers uh John Oglesby uh with CSD Engineering and Steve's here with him back there and uh Chad Huffan is our consultant. Uh general contractor is Chuck Sumo uh with Tiny Homes of Raleigh on the tiny home section and Falls Contracting on the custom home section. Our legal counsel is Magguire Snider in Hassie. And our finance team is Corey Barber with Barber Companies and Gwen Key with Premier Tax and Accounting out of Raleigh. And our sales and marketing team is Cheryl Merritt with New uh Legacy Realy. Cheryl is here. She sold plenty of homes up in the Burlington

area and surrounding area. Um, I think you're in your 21st year of selling real estate. And, um, and also, uh, Michael Dunn, uh, what I call Mike Jr., he's, uh, he's an apprentice. He wants to be a developer when he grows up. So, he's kind of following along and taking notes and helping out where he can. And, uh, I'm Michael Watkins, Senior. I'm the owner, developer, and project manager for the project. So um you know we're asking uh for uh zoning and land use flexibility um any place where we can get any relief u and uh and infrastructure sharing if if if possible any support around grant and state programs that might be here uh and offered as part of the development for the city and the county. affordability and workforce incentives if any exist and formal city support. Uh we think that some of these targeted flexibilities and modest uh fee reliefs will in other areas will help us deliver a project that really helps Graham uh satisfy a very unique u uh community. Um we don't think it's be there is anything like it in the area. Um and again paying special close attention to the environment and is is very important. Um and this also supporting the long-term community development goals and economic development for the community in the city and the county. So, on behalf of Walker Properties and the White Rock Project team, I want to thank you and we'll be glad to take any questions.

Thank you for your presentation, Elizabeth. Okay, Mr. You said this is going to be a gated community. That's our intent. Now, if we able to do that, we will. If we're not able to do that, we will not. But the the the primary premise around that was is that so that the the the residents would have that privacy that a lot of times they're looking for in an upscale looking community. Cameron, can they do gates with public streets?

Public streets um potentially. Um, I think fire department requirements um just allow for I think there's um either some aspect of is either a knockbox for a key or the ability for the gate to open based upon the fire department's horn. I think they do have um remedies in order to be able to have those across public lines, but that of course has to be approved um by the fire department themselves. So So they can close a public street to John Q citizen. um if all of the specific fire department requirements are met um or if the fire department allows it. So and if we can't do that, James, we will not. Thank you, sir. The private street, no parking.

That's correct. How do how do you propose that to be enforced? Well, we'll have signs in the enforcement with the uh uh homeowners in that's in the area. and Cameron D is okay with a wash more road cuts. Yes, sir. Where they're at.

So, um the initial and I kind of try and pull it up. This um there's a connector right here which is already an existing public rightway um which NC DOT already has maintenance over. Um let me try and get over to it. Um this connector area right here is already kind of established as public rightway. Um, so essentially that is already NC DOT's area inside of there. Um, and this other one of course would require another driveway permit through the Department of Transportation. Um, up to this point they have made no comment about um, the locations of the driveways. Um, I think the only thing that NC DOT may have mentioned was um, I guess the turnin in here, but that was met after the second round of review by the technical review committee.

Okay. So, it's been through the first round and second round. Yes, sir. Yeah. And everything's good there. All right. U have you met with the Websters? Are they good with the easement through their property? Yes, sir. Jeremy, Mr. B. Um, you mentioned part of the open space will have trails, fishing, any additional recreation facilities? Well, uh, no additional recreation facilities. We we plan to have a open perglar with seating um a walking trail for health and fitness and swings and benches kind of along the trail. Okay.

All I have, Mr. Chair. All right. I want to get into the technical aspect of it. Okay. Mr. or

either one of you, whoever's on the tiny home lots, what is the lot width? So, I don't see that nowhere on here. I recall they are 16. I'd had the deaths catch.

Cameron, did I overlook it anywhere? What's that? No, sir. Um, I was just looking on the site data map. I don't know if there was um widths listed on top of there. Um, so it would essentially be boiled down to um you all and the applicant to have a discussion um because if it's not it bounces back to um the minimum requirement for the R9 standards which I believe is 60 ft of width and that would be for essentially every lot. Um, so, uh, on the developer side of things, it would be taking whatever the lowest minimum would be for, uh, a width for both sections essentially. Like if there's a 43 foot, um, minimum width, that's the smallest you have, that's what you want to have on the plans.

But that's already zoned R12 12,000 foot. No, sir. It's zone R18. 18. Yes, sir. So, we want to go from 18,000 square foot to what? Um, the minimum lots for because there's two different sides. Um, you have uh for the tiny home section, I think minimum lot size of 2,800 ft² and the custom lot 6,430 square ft. It's probably the smallest location on the the set of plans. So, so we're less than R seven. Yes, sir. In answer your question before on the Tony home side, we were going for 48 48 for the majority of the width to maintain that that lot size

and 48 by 60. Yes, sir. That's that's most of the lots, but then you have some irregular lots there that you might have a 60 uh because they weren't as deep. Um, and you have ones on the corner. is going to have a a 77 foot width. But then you have one in curves that may be just short of 48 like 45 but that's that's causes more of a pile lot and it still gets to that minimum size that we were looking for. So from the back edge of the sidewalk to the front door of the house, how many feet are we talking about?

From the sidewalk to the front of the house will be a minimum of 20 feet. 20 foot. So, will that allow us to park two cars in the driveway? Yes, sir. That's what that's what we designed the pads for. And I've done functional design to show that, you know, we can get that 20 foot width and still fit the footprint was working closely with the tiny home designers to make sure that we had a workable footprint. Mhm. And we did a corridor through there to make sure that we could get the 20 ft minimum uh clear of the sidewalk so that they could park two cars in a driveway. And would the driveway be uh two cars side by side or two cars end to end? Two cars side by side.

Side by side. So yes, sir. We just don't have the depth to to do the end to end. Okay, that sounds good. I noticed on the town homes uh numbering you've got it numbered from 1 to 17, but over on the custom side your numbers start at 41 to 40 to 50.

Where' those missing numbers go? that that was that was a distinguish between there could be possibly additional lots and we wanted to keep a gap between those to make sure we if there's any future phases or expansion in the future that we could keep the lots consistent. So we're potentially talking about it could be more than the proposed lot amounts that you're asking concern not for this project right now. That would be something in the future. We don't own my client does not own any more land to develop any lots and if there is more land comes available. Okay.

Then they we wanted to keep a little gap between them in case he comes back and says hey now we want to do another development. That makes sense. Okay. Thank you there. Yes sir. Good question.

Give me one second. potentially if there was any type of overflow parking. I know your your proposal talks about parking on one side of the street. Um, is there room in there to put any designated parking elsewhere where if someone was to have multiple guests Christmas party or something like that where the whole family comes over, you wouldn't be in a tiny community, you wouldn't be able to get more than two curves on the street in front of your house. And if you have 14 people that come over, is there any room there to put any additional parking? We have a little room down at the end here to add some additional parking where you can't have a build a buildable lot. It's not shown on the plan, but they I was looking at for that reason that some of the topography will limit those areas.

And I see the proposed uh connection down to Nenina Drive, but are you proposing to connect to Nina Drive or stopping short of? We are not proposing at this time to connect to Nina Drive. However, we're setting it up on the property that we can develop. We're setting it up so if there's ever a future, we can connect to Nina Drive. And that's how the entrance is is set up. And that was a question that was asked during the TRC. Why are we doing this? So, we're staying within the existing easement and there is a potential for a buildable connection to Nina Drive. And so, we didn't want to do anything that would hinder that opportunity in the future. Not not for my developers advant my client's advantage, but for the city and connectability and and block space and that kind of that kind of thing.

Um, is there potential land that is developable from Nina Drive. And the reason I asked that question is I know that in the previous um approval there on Hamper Road on the right side of you, there was a big concern from the folks that live down on Nina Drive that they didn't want that um opened and I think ultimately the council agreed to do something different, but I don't know what all the particulars were. But is there developable land there from that connection potentially that would tie to you or is it something do you have to have? Yes, sir.

No, that that uh property between Hanford Landing and and uh the sad property is owned by Miss Huey and um we've had some conversations at some point in the future. It may come up for for sale. Don't know when that would ever be, but the only the only uh reason for the design the way it is is to keep it open for flexibility in the future. Thank you. Cameron, would you bring up that topo map they got there? And I want to see the elevation changes from lower street to the lower side of the lot, lower end of the property. I can see it on mine, but I can't read it. And this is uh you're talking about this area right here, this set of plans.

Yeah. A lot of this is um existing conditions um and might not have. So you want to see down in this area? Yeah. I want to see what how much elevation change we're talking about. Um you're going from this a 550 line Right through here. 555 560 565 15 foot 15. What's up there twice? What do you want change from? From from the entrance main entrance on the ground.

Yeah. It goes from about 590 at the highest point to about 5 at the lowest point. So potentially 40 foot elevation change up. Yeah. And hence we had to do the functional design to see if we could have buildable lots.

Gotcha. that you want to ask a few. Let me go back through my notes here. I got some other questions. I know I did handle your bio uh retention ponds. Is that going to be sales bio sales? That's something we would prefer over ponds.

Oh yes. I've been made I've been made quite aware of that. And we we can I can design by our retention. We can do storm water wetlands. We don't you know to be honest with you is a preference. I only do wet ponds when they're advantageous for amenities. Gotcha. You get more bang for your buck from wetlands and buy retention. Right. And Miss Huey's land. Cameron, show me Miss Huie's lot where her house is now. Is that lot 34 there? Yeah. So, this is probably a better representation. Um, she owns pretty much all of uh this land that's highlighted right here, right?

That's on the rear of the property. Let me see if But yeah, it essentially goes back her land. You can see kind of the shaded outlines through here. This is all of her land that runs along back through here up towards the front. Um, but this is probably the best way to see it. So, the development is proposed right here in this area. And this is Miss Huie's land back through here. That's where her house is back there on that section. Yeah, I'll get some imagery. See if you can kind of take a look. So, she owns this one. And there's somebody else that has access back through here as well. I got you. All right. Okay. Mr. B, come back down the line again. Do you have any further questions at this time? No, sir. None.

Mr. Kpatrick, I'm going take a few questions from the audience and then I'm probably going to come back to you again. Is there anyone in the audience tonight that would like to speak uh concerning this? Please come up and state your name and address, please, sir.

My name is Jeff Bennis. I live in 1407 East Gilbert Street, Graham. Um, another development we have going here. All right. Um, something uh, Mr. Mr. Watkins presentation was not complete and and and I think these something that the council should be thinking about. How many more police are we going to hire to support this development? Does anybody know? Mr. Bis is our job as the planning board. We don't get to hire anybody here. We only determine whether it meets the zoning requirements. Uh though I can't answer that question for you. That'd be a great question to ask the council.

Okay. And I'm I'm I'm going to get to that because you know how many more police? How many more firemen? Right. We got more people. We're going to need more support.

EMS garbage pickup. And I heard about sidewalks. Sidewalks. There's going to be sidewalks in the community. What about sidewalks on Hanford Road and More Street where people walk? And now we have all these more people coming in. All right. Where are people how are people going to stay safe on the roads where they walk and ride their bicycles? Okay. Right around the corner from this development. And I'm I I noticed that none of the developers and and Mr. Watkins, they don't live in Graham. They live somewhere else. They're going to build in Graham because they don't live here. We live here. All right. Right around the corner from this development is Hanford Landing, Henley Ridge. Next to Sheets, you got Stillhouse Farms. There's an unnamed development across the street from Bethany Presbyterian Church, the Meadows development on Gilbreth, the Meadow, the Safe Sage Croft on Gilbreth, and on Ivy and Graham and Gilbert Street. This council, this this group approved and the council approved it to build 29 town homes on six acres of land. All right, we are building like it's going out of style. All right, but it's not associated with the support structures it needs. All right, what about traffic? Do you ever do you ever drive down Main Street? And I know I might be boring you about this, but this is real life stuff. You ever go down Main Street at 8:00 in the morning or 5:00 in the evening? Tonight when I came here, the line to get through this traffic light here was all all the way down to Woodward I Care. All right. This is Graham. All right. And we're bringing more and more and more people. And it starts here because I've gone to the city council and I've raised these concerns and there's their their answer is planning department to proved it.

There's nothing we can do about it. Quote unquote from Mayor Tally. Okay. My question to you is what kind of city do you want Graham to be? All right. I've lived in Los Angeles and I've lived in San Francisco and I like the way Graham is. All right. What What kind of city? You can put all these plans together and yeah, they they fit in, right? They have fit in. But what does it do to the quality of life? Okay. There's a sign right up here on on Pine and Harden that says, "Welcome to Graham, a city designed for living." Well, the way you're going with all these developments, all right, faster than you can even count them, you ought to need to change the sign to say, "Welcome to Graham, a city designed for growth and overcrowding." All right? Doesn't matter if it all fits. What does it do to the community and to the people that don't live here? All right? You need to think about that stuff because when you approve it here, the city council takes it as a blank check and says, "We can't do anything about it. Planning approved it. Okay, you need to think about that.

Thank you, Mr. P, because we count on you for that. Thank you. Anyone else from the audience? Please, please come up. He had a lot to say. I'll get Wait, wait a minute. Get your name and address. I'm Paige Cook, 1202 Hanford Road. I'm Mildred Huey's neighbor. He had a lot to say about what Miss Mildred Huey had to say. I'd like for her to come and address some of those issues if she would just get take your time. She's 92. We got to give her a little time. Hey, Miss Huie. Thank you. Doing the mic.

Thought I had a loud enough voice for anybody could hear.

Well, I'm Mildred Huey. I've been here 60some years. I've really looked after this piece of property for a long, long time. I don't want it nothing but houses here. It's what we've always had. And my daughter asked me about a year or so ago, I gave her these 10 acres of land to build her house. And she never done it. She moved to South Carolina and so about a year or so ago she asked me said, "Mom, can I sell it?" Well, we were we fought like crazy when you put those condos down there below us and I told the mayor then it would never be sold over my dead body and mine won't. But my daughter asked me could she sell her property and I thought we were pretty safe with our zoning. We were 18. They lowered us from 20 to 18 homes, not density but homes. And the homes I dropped them from 35 to 24 25. And that is exactly what Mr. Watkins bought. I have his signature. I have a copy of the deed. I've got the whole thing right here. He bought it because it had he paid 20 2500 square f feet and that's what the limit is. And here I go to Graham

and I see this mess of all these tiny homes. I don't know what a tiny home is. What is it? Square foot. It's a smaller house size from 600 ft to 1,200 foot is what he's proposing. Well, how many people's going to live in them? That's a two one. That That's a good question that I will ask.

Well, we don't need this type of stuff down here. I go down this driveway where he wants to put these and believe you me, if I had known anything about what he intended to do, my daughter would have never sold this piece of property. This is the way I feel. Paige and I have maintained our homes for all of these years. I've been there 60some years. I bought this piece of property long, many years ago and I have protected it every way I know how. The mayor want to know if I was going to could even think about ever doing it and I said it would be over my dead body. That's how I feel about this piece of property. So, I'm against it 100%. And please do not do it do it to us.

Thank you, Miss Huie. Thank you, Miss Huie. May I get your address, please? 1170 Hanford Road. 1170 Hanford Road. Thank you, ma'am. And here is Cameron. Cameron, can I ask her a question? Yeah, certainly. Miss Huie. Miss Huie. He's got a question for you, Miss Hu. Right here. Just right there. Just stand right there.

Go ahead, Mr. Uh you have voluntarily agreed for the easement for the water and sewer. I have give no easement for anything. If he has to I talked to him about when he but he didn't tell me he was going to do all this. I talked to him about he wanted to cross my property from well I guess from the development we've got next door we've done went through that and I said I'd think about it or we'd discuss it but it I don't give no no no it'll never across my property.

We really didn't know this was going to happen. She got That's right. Found out. He didn't have the courtesy to tell. That's right. And he didn't tell Debbie this.

So, Cameron, how how does this project work without an easement? Um I think from the beginning um even with the more street connection down there with the roadway um it has been the understanding that we have implied to the developer as well that you know this development is subject to X Y and Z um is subject to fee simple ownership of the right of way that you have proposed for the public um is subject to um retention of that easement for water and sewer extension. Um it's the same um I believe there was the project that was on um Jeff and Handover Road over there. Um they had supplemental um regulations for how they were going to connect to water and sewer. Um and we said from the beginning it's like regardless this development is subject to acquiring X Y and Z and that's where we are here today. Um under my understanding um it seemed like the same of it was not going to be a problem. So

thank you Miss Shuy. I I have a question for her as well. Did you miss you did you say you guys had agreed upon 25 homes? Is that what I heard you say? Well, I haven't agreed up to anything. Okay. It's just I had them in case something happened to me. This is what they would would be. There'd be homes. I you I did have 3500 because this is what square is that what Okay. No. Okay. That's what I want to do.

Why? I'm talking about square feet because Paige and I both have homes in that that category. And we're sitting at the back of this place. My home and her home is over on the back of this. We've got to come down my driveway to see this mess every time we go home. You understand? Yes, ma'am. Please don't let it happen. We don't need people down there like this. Please. Thank you.

Anyone else in the audience like to speak? Come on up and please state your name and address, please. Yes. My name is Adam Sten Ross Russell. I live at 1204 Hanford Road. Could you spell your last name? Uh, S Ten R O SSE R U SS E L L. And you can see it right there. Right. So, I'm on the upper left corner of these plans. And according to this, um, right next to my property, I'm going to have what, one, two, three, four. four tiny homes jammed in what's now just a little bit of grass and woods right up against my property. Now, now I do have a question. What would be your proposed buffer? What's this 10 foot buff? Sir, that and anything else? Please address your question.

Yeah. So, I was a question for him. I just Okay, give it to me. Give me Give it to me. Yes, sir. So, I wonder So, what's this buffer that's going to be there? They're talking about natural stuff that there was grass. Grass there.

There's There's no buffer. I'd be looking directly from my beautiful secluded back porch that I love here in Graham into somebody's house into their tiny house into four of them, you know. Um, and like I I understand the need to develop, the need to make room for more places. I was a land surveyor for 15 years. Trust me, I understood it. I've seen lots of beautiful property cut into subdivisions, right? And that's why I bought the property I did here in Graham from Miss Hume and I love it. And it's got history there and and every one of these cut into this property is just tearing down more history and grail. You know, my chimney is dates stamped 1844. Okay. And every little bit is just cutting into that. And I've seen it so many times and I understand the need to develop and I know it was zoned R18 and I've seen a I've been through a bunch of this stuff in my career. in healthcare now, but I I don't see how anyone could foresee anything other than like R12 on this property and keep it at least similar to some of the land around so people would have nice single family homes for young families to start into to bring them to Graham, not a retirement community that's going to bring people into Graham just to watch it degrade. People who won't stand up and protest when they see something like this coming in next to them. And like I just I understand everything that everybody has said here today and I I can't do more to say how much I support it. Um, I picked this area and now I know I don't I I I don't work here in Graham or in Alamance, so you've not commuted, but I wanted an area that was not like Durham where I lived before or Chapel Hill or even Chattam County when they started developing there and I moved to Graham for what it was and I'm proud of it and happy to be here and I hope we can keep it the way that it is.

Thank you. That's all. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak? Please step forward. State your name and address, please.

My name is Robert Sanders. I live at 1225 Hanford Road. And to answer this gentleman's question, there is already a um gate on Nina Drive going into Hanford Landing that is um on a public road um but does not allow access from Nenina onto uh Hanford Landing. Um my question is, you know, you can come before the board and make all these um suggestions and presentations, but is there anything that would uh tie or demand that the person that is developing this have homes that are six uh 100 to,200 square feet? Um, I think the tiny home definition can go in certain locations down to 400 square ft. Um, if that's a state requirement, could the person come in and and unload a tiny home uh that's 400. You know, a lot of them they build somewhere else, put them on wheels, uh, drive them someplace, drop them onto a foundation, and go. Um, I I think most of the people here that are expressing their just taste for the community is the tiny home portion of it. Um, you know, they've got what, one or two in the county already. Um, and even in the county, it was met with other than open arms.

Um, so I I think if the gentleman wanted to do a development of 2500 square ft homes, uh, none of us would be here. Um, I think it's that section that really, um, since the lots are so small and like Adam said, you know, he's going to be looking at four tiny homes. Um, if you look at the city council meetings, uh, when they looked at Hanford Landing, they talked about the density and how dense it was and how the lots needed to be bigger. And if you recall, they wanted to put 72 town homes on the front half of that property for Hanford Landing. and the city council um said it's too dense and that's why they're using the full 14 acres. So, I think this group uh would like the same type of consideration. They don't fit into our community um that we have now. Um we already have diversity. We have two trailer parks. We have a uh an apartment in Brown's apartments. Um, we have town homes now right next to this property. Uh, I think we're about as diverse as we need to be. Uh, so as the rest said, uh, I would be opposed to the tiny home portion.

Thank you, Mr. S. Yeah, just to answer your question, um they are asking for a conditional zoning which means there could be conditions imposed on minimum square footage if it was considered to be approvable by either board us this board or the council. Okay, thank you. Please state your name and address, please. I'm Ruth Sanders and I'm also live at 1225 Hamford Road and I'm a math person. I just want to throw one thing out to you from what I've heard here tonight. Um you said that the the lots could would be 48 by 60 was what I understood for the tiny home.

Great. That's 2880 square ft.

How many in this building tonight have homes that are larger than that? And that's the lodge. You're going to put a little 600 square foot home. So that home could be 15 by 40 comes to 600 square feet. And you're going to put that on a 2880 square foot lot. Miss Huey and Paige have beautiful brick homes way bigger than 2800 square feet that are right there and they're going to be looking at these tiny little homes. So I just please ask you to dis that this does not fit in our community. We have we I have lived here 50 years in my brick home right there on Hford Road. This and we do not want to see something like this. And like you said, the they are not from Graham. These people are not from Graham. They do not care about our community like we do. So I please ask that you consider that.

Thank you, Miss. Anyone else like to speak to this matter? All right. Mr. engineer, could you come on back up one more? Can we address the buffer question on concerning if there's the three or four units that back up to U Adams U input type B I believe is what is required. I think it's um it's actually type D.

So I might be able to help out a little bit with this as well. Um typically when you have single family adjacent to single family there is not a landscape buffer requirement. Um so they are showing um let me see if I can locate it. There is a uh like a five foot type D buffer. You can kind of see this shaded inside of here um with the note that mentioned something about existing vegetation where there could possibly be some existing vegetation. Of course, along this property line, stuff will likely be planted, but back here, um, if they do retain it, it would take up for that 10 foot of space. Um, just for purpose of discussion here of what exactly a type D buffer is, um, I would have to look at it exactly, but it's essentially um, shrubs and canopy trees. thinks it's uh either 16 or 17 shrubs per 100 linear feet and one canopy tree per 100 linear feet or three. I I need to look at it and make sure. Um but that has been my understanding at least. What's the lot numbers uh that we'd be talking about that pertains to backs of Adams property?

One, two, three, four. And that obviously he's correct. There is grass there, but it clearly states in the plan that that will be supplemental planting to meet the requirement of the buffer, which is canopy tree, shrubs for screening. Okay. Yeah. So the type D um two um two understory trees per 100 linear feet and 18 um shrubs per 100 linear feet is what it lists inside of here. So develop more. So that's what would be provided in that area.

Did I miss any follow-up question that audience asked wanted answer too? I will um I think um I know he mentioned something about the um the gate through Nina Drive over there. Um that was a I think a condition by city council just for residential traffic to not go through to that Nina Drive area and be subject only for a secondary point of access for fire services alone which is of course would be in that same type of vein of um you know how exactly does the fire approve these types of accesses through these gates um and most of the time it's without getting out of the truck and it's horn activated. Any further questions for the petitioner before I close the open meeting?

Okay, Mr. Watkins. Watkins, I have a question for you. Yes.

Uh, Miss Huey stated that she has not signed over the easements to you all and upon review here, I don't see her signature. Is this something that you are under the understanding that you will be receiving from her or have you received these easements? that we we had a conversation about the need for a utility easement to run across from my property across her property to the Hampford Landing. And the primary reason for that easement would be for the water and sewer which will be on the ground. Yes. And we had that conversation. We actually marked the area for them so they could see exactly where it was going to be located. and we had conversation about the the the the community. Not a lot of detail, but one of the things that I did want to do and I do want to do and that is preserve as much of the natural topography of the property as possible. It is a historic in in and based on what I've learned about the property and we want to take every means necessary to preserve the environment that exists there today, the natural environment as much as possible. And the primary reason for the tiny homes is is that you know as we look at uh real estate um ownership today, one of the things that we see is affordability. So our concept is is to offer an active living environment where the home sizes and the homes lots are less for maintenance but more for for affordability to give people the opportunity to own a home maybe not the size and also for people that were downsizing. you know, going from 3,800, 4,000 square feet, downsizing, but still wanted to own their home instead of

going into some sort of uh assisted living or um uh senior living community. So, the idea was an active lifestyle community, something that was unique, something that was in a beautiful photograph uh uh topography area and make it affordable. And that's the reason for the lot sizes. The the the term tiny home can mean, you know, smaller lot sizes and it and it does mean smaller lot sizes. But we this community we consider it to be a micro community where all of the homes are smaller side and the primary focus for that is affordability.

Mr. Watkins, can you give me a um market analysis of the price range? Not an exact price, just a range for your tiny houses and the custom houses that you're talking about. Well, we we haven't uh finalized exactly what that's beh going to be yet, primarily because understanding what the costs uh are going to be uh at this point. But I I would um would say we'll we'll we'll be on either side somewhere within the 275 to 325 per square foot. Per square foot.

Yeah. And what type of exteriors are you proposing for these houses? And it means no bearing. I just trying to get more information about Right. I seen the pictures here. Is it going to look exactly like the pictures that you had? Those are concept res uh uh um concept designs of the types of homes and the style. Um the each home will be built. So it won't it will not be a home that comes in on wheels. Well, it's a custom site built on site.

The both the tiny home side and the custom home side will all be custom built. Yes. Some will have brick siding, some will have uh uh uh veneer type siding, you know, so traditional sighting on the homes, but all all of that will be uh fireproof.

Mr. B. Right. Thank you, sir. Thank you for your time. At this time, I'm going to close the public hearing. You got to speak twice, sir. He's the petitioner. He's the one that's applying.

Chairman, can I ask Cameron a question? Absolutely. Cameron, what this is currently R18? Yes, sir. So, what could go in R18 as is zoned it now? Single family, one single family home. um if they were to subdivide it, 18,000 foot lots um contingent upon a lot of different um factors of uh lot lines, depth, width, things along those lines. Now, sizes are they restricted to square footage in a house?

We as a city of Graham do not I can't speak to what Miss Huey was mentioning about any specific deed covenants or anything along those lines. Um, that would have to be something you would have asked her, but no sir, the city doesn't have any um requirements. I don't think we legally can have anything like that inside of our ordinance. Thank you. Yes, sir. And is there presently uh easement that has been granted recorded for water and sewer? Do you know?

No, sir. Not that I'm aware of. I think um Mr. Watkins kind of noted that everything was um in that affidavit aspect of uh con was yeah contingent upon essentially the full development. So say if it was approved um it would never get developed unless he could acquire the easement for a water and sewer connection and b um to the land to uh construct public roadways. I understand the public roadway part of it, but as far as the u water and sewer, is it possible that these lots could have whales and septics? Um, no, sir, because they're inside the city limits and they have access um to a water and sewer extension.

Okay. All right. Open it up for discussion here. really strong on the county t county homes there 17 of them there um own 2500 to 3,000 square foot lots that's uh my opinion way way too density out. I don't I don't know that you could over Paul would overrun not being able to do the number to achieve that level. I don't know what that number would be, the minimum number he would have to have to to where he could make money there if it was approved. But I'm I'm against going from R 12 uh R18 down to less than 20,000 R3. I don't think we've ever approved R3 and Graham anywhere ever.

It's been close. Um the Riley's Meadow Town Home developments I think are kind of within that vein of like 25 to 3,000 square feet, maybe a little bit more, but there's there has been. But I think um that's been the area. I wouldn't be opposed to u here potentially if it's where I'm sitting at we're talking about density is allowing the developers u maybe to allow us to table this and let him go back and try to work something out with the community and come back to us next month if he would like. If not and he wants us to proceed forward then we could proceed forward. I just want to know what everybody's feeling is.

Are you concerned about density or I am especially with the tiny homes that seems to be the issue.

Hey if uh the board is at consensus here. I'd like to open the public hearing back just for Mr. Watkins to ask that question and that question only is one we want to talk about. see if he would allow us to table it or if he wants to proceed forward. Mr. Watkins, if you would, I'm gonna open the public hearing back up if you'd come back up for just a second. this board is concerned about the density there and um I think we would like to make a proposal that um we want to table this to next month's meeting to allow you the opportunity to potentially work some things out some problems that you may have uh with the properties there with the number units or your easements before we rule on it or we will go ahead and make a motion to move it forward if that's what you want us to do and if you want want to talk to your team, you can take just a minute and talk to your team.

Could I please? Yes, sir.

All right. Thank you. Um, we'll uh move forward with the U one month extension.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. I want to close the public hearing back and come back into our consultation again. With that being said, from the developer, he's in agreeable with us to table this to next month's meeting to give him an opportunity to address density and maybe uh talk to the neighbors and see if he can work out any issues that he may or may not have. Is I'm in favor of that. Okay. I'll entertain a motion to table this to next month. Do I have a second? I'll second it. All

in favor? Any opposed? Ladies and gentlemen, what this means is it's coming back on next month and it's going to allow the petitioner an opportunity to um talk to you guys and see if you can work out some things and we'll proceed with it next month. But I just wanted you to know I wanted to be fair with everybody here. There's been a a lot of time with them and a lot of time with you guys living there all your life. Um we want to give everybody the right opportunity to see if we can work this out or not. Thank you for your time. What's the date of your next meeting? It'll be the second Tuesday of the month. Uh let me look on my calendar. It'll be May the 12th. Yeah,

the Yeah, the third Tuesday. Oh, yeah. Not today. 19th. May 19th. I apologize. Third Tuesday. And u um I was going Yeah, May 19th. You won't receive another notice in the mail. Um so just make sure you have it on your calendars.

Okay. Okay. Well, I think I spoke with y'all on the phone as well about it and it's just a proximity of what it's required to be said. So, that's why we have the signs out there to gather some more input. So, thank you, Ari. All right, moving on Cameron to number seven. Any public comment on any non-aggenda items tonight? I see see none. Does staff have any comments? You want to vote to bring Mr. Chad back on? Yeah. Right. One second.

I'll make a motion that we bring Mr. Hoff back on for the remainder of the meeting. I'll second it. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you, Mr. Yes. John Ogensby 3. Well, actually, I'm gonna give you my home address. is 535 Barrett Lane, Archer Lodge, North Carolina. And I just uh want to say that I appreciate your time and serving on a citizen board. I am uh chairman of our planning board in Archer Lodge. We serve at the pleasure of our elected officials. Uh take the job very seriously and I just wanted to make a public comment to say thank you for what you do for your community. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, Cameron. Staff comments. um do not have anything at the moment. Um I think the only thing I can provide you all is with you what already may know with passed on projects or agenda items that moved to city council. Um land use review was tabled. Um ADU amendment was tabled and I think that is about it. So we should be seeing those on the next month's council agenda. I don't know if y'all had any intention on um showing up at that presentation either um but always available of course. So that's all that I have comment from any planning board member? None. Right. I'll make a motion that we adjourn. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor?