Affordable Housing and Community Equity Development Commission - Regular Meeting

and you're live okay I want to call to order the affordable Housing and Community Equity development commission meeting for January 23rd 2025 call the role Terry Bond here Karen Britain Elijah peric Blaine here H Richerson here and I know that Pat is proud of the country so this this is this is us for tonight um so the next order of business is approval of the minutes we have two different minutes to approve the minutes from the October 24th meeting last year um do I hear a motion to approve those minutes I'll motion to approve them any second all those in favor I I opposed okay and now the December 4th meeting our last meeting of last year do I have a motion to approve those minutes also move do I have a second any second Karen okay um all those in favor I any opposed the meeting the minutes of December 4th are approved um we have to do a little bit of

a switch because Eric Linsky who's going to talk about the Comm plan um is not going to be able to join us until a little bit later so we're going to go straight to reverse 4 and five on our agenda and we'll have our discussion of the acds Consolidated plan which is actually the anondo county Consolidated plan and Elijah is going to talk to us about it tell us all about it what's in it how we I'm hoping you'll also talk to us about how we may be able to intersect with it yeah absolutely okay um great well thanks um so as a formality I just want to clarify that I am a participant in this commission as a resident um but I am current currently speaking to you all this evening official capacity as assistant planning director and as such I'm going to put all participants not currently speaking on mute so that we don't get any feedback I actually don't have that capability so Denise if maybe that's something you could do um is just put everybody on mute can I can I say something real quick I'm hearing background noise um yes I was in the process of asking Denise she might be able to mute everybody if you're not if anybody has their selves not on mute if you can mute yourselves I think that should take care of okay great thank you all very much um I Look to have sharing capabilities and so we'll share my screen but again um just

to um again clarify I am doing this presentation this evening I'm in my formal capacity as assistant planning director at acds um following this presentation I'll no longer be speaking as a representative of acds and will again be uh participating as a resident and a a commission member um having said all of that um want to start off by just kind of providing an overall context I know most of you on this call have a a very firm awareness as to what the Consolidated plan is um but for anyone joining at home or seeing this online or for any of us that are aren't fully aware um give a little bit of background on who acds is and what the Consolidated plan is um more than anything this is an opportunity for you all to provide feedback to an rundo County and to Arundle Community Development Services for the Consolidated plan and so to do that obviously you can provide comments verbally here but then also if you see on your screen in the bottom right hand corner of this first slide a QR code you can scan that with your phone camera that will draw up the URL to a Google form where you can provide input um and feedback that way um so uh going just kind of into the overall presentation um sorry just give me one moment there uh you can see um a little bit here about who acds is so a rundal community development services was established in 1993 and for the past 30 plus years um we have been in affect the County's Department of Housing and Community Development as such we have a we have a variety of contracts with the county um to administer and oversee the uh uh both federal state and local funding related to homelessness housing housing affordability and overall

Community Development through that we have a variety of programming that we operate within acds and that's firsttime home buyer counseling and assistance forclosure meure prevention assistance weatherization and Energy Efficiency as you can see here all delineated from property rehab and accessibility modifications to also being the lead Agency on behalf of the county through the Continuum of Care for ending homelessness eviction prevention and then also creating and preserving affordable housing opportunities to improve the overall supply of affordable housing and try to improve overall housing affordability across the county um that second to last bullet we are a a grant a seasoned Grant administrator as well um we uh administer about a little more than half a little more than a dozen different Federal uh state and local funding sources um and four of those are really engaged in the Consolidated plan so those four are the Community Development block grant program the home investment partnership program the emergency Solutions grant program and the housing opportunities for persons with AIDS program there is a fifth program that is uh covered by the Consolidated plan and that is the National Housing Trust Fund but uh due to the formula of the trust fund um en rundo County does not receive a direct allocation of trust fund dollars that comes through uh the Maryland Department of Housing and Community Development but the Consolidated plan is a required plan um that needs to be submitted on a five-year basis and that plan guides the overall uh funding uh it guides the overall activities that we are able to fund with our community development

block grant program dollars um moving forward I'll refer to that as the cdbg program or the home investment partnership program moving forward I'll refer to that as the home program ESG the emergency Solutions grant program ESG and then hwa housing opportunities for persons with AIDS and so it it guides the the the allocation of those dollars into specific activities on an annual basis and every five years we have to develop a new Consolidated plan that really tries to account for overall demographic changes and other changes that we've seen within the county over that 5-year period and it also seeks to incorporate the feed back from the public as to what the public is seeing as changes and needs within the community and so with that uh need for the Consolidated plan what we are also at acds seeking to achieve is an overarching policy document that looks at uh our housing affordability strategy from a more holistic standpoint and I think Nancy to your point at the outset I think that's exactly where this commission or committee um I think we're we're commission right thank you sorry um that we that's where I think you all can come in on this is providing feedback to the C to the um uh City uh Council um and to the mayor and to really be asking them uh to take the actions that would help get the city as best in line with some of the actions that the county has taken whether that be by funding an affordable housing trust fund or passing something like the County's uh recently enacted moderately priced dwelling units uh legislation uh much of which we've

discussed pre in previous meetings here and we are continuing to have those conversations as a commission of course so our prior plan had a series of guiding principles and that is first and foremost to focus on affordable housing and then next is to really look at provid in new units and providing housing assistance for uh for households to move into communities of opportunity and for communities of opportunity what we are really referring to are um areas that have access to Transportation um and jobs um uh High achieving schools um and overall have a higher level level of household income so within anaro County we're particularly talking about those areas just north of Annapolis in the uh Arnold area as well as in the Sao Park area our re revitalization projects and public services we really want to try and locate those in neighborhood revitalization areas one big thing I want to point out is that we are are seeking feedback about potentially expanding what we consider to be a neighborhood revitalization area historically we have prioritized the uh Brooklyn Park Glenn Bernie and Severn areas of the county the data for for some more technical reasons would seem to indicate that we should deprioritize Severn we at acds do not believe that to be the case we believe it's more of a statistical anomaly um and the feedback that we have received thus far over the course of the Consolidated plan process affirms that um that posture uh and so we anticipate continuing to have the Severn area as a neighborhood revitalization area the area that we think we would like to add is the Maryland City area kind of South around

the Laurel Maryland City area um that is an area that has an increasing amount of poverty or households with lower incomes and as such uh we really feel it should be included um there are other pockets of where within the data it's clear there are households with lower incomes um especially in South County particularly around the wason's corner area and the Lothian kind of deal area if you uh down in that section the overall problem that we seem to have received some good feedback on and if there's any feedback here that you all could offer would be helpful is that there's no real kind of specific area there there are there are there are manufactured housing or trailer park homes in those areas Beyond doing specific projects there is it worth going through the effort of adding the whole census block or the whole kind of region down there um recognizing that that might kind of bring about other requirements for us to fund activities down there which might have the unintended effect of really kind of watering out the available resources um and so as a result we are kind of leaning towards um adding in the Maryland City area but not adding in the South County areas while simultaneously recognizing that there is those pockets of need within South County prior plan goals you can see here there are those seven uh on the screen um ranging uh the gamut of uh home ownership and Rental housing uh to revitalization as well as of course economic stability Community projects and facilities and of course our fair

housing requirements um I think the um one thing that I will just kind of really highlight is that our community development block grant um dollars are required to only spend a maximum of 15% on what are called public service projects um and as a result of that there's a severe itation as to what we can do with that money and the amount of demand really outstrips the available resources for non capital projects and as we on this call know but again for anyone else that may be watching um online or or recording in the future uh capital projects refer to kind of bricks and sticks actually developing uh affordable housing or Mo or preserving affordable housing um whereas Public Service dollars are non capital projects so for example we have uh provided funding to the Boys and Girls Club of Anar rundo County for their act for their work at free toown and also over at the Severn Center in the Severn area uh We've provided funding to hope for all which is a nonprofit that provides Furniture to uh recently homeless households who are moving into housing um we have provided funding to the Department of Social Services to do the homeless Outreach um and so those are examples of Public Service activities that we fund with that limited amount of Public Service money that we have each year to put a dollar figure on that it's roughly $400,000 a year so it is a very relative relatively small pot of money particularly when you compare it to the other resources that are now being made available especially by the county the county has made a big effort to make uh uh investments in housing affordability both monetary as well as non-monetary

through exam like the mpdu program that I referenced or ordinance that I referenced earlier um and so those resources really exponentially outstrip uh the federal resources that we have available for these type of Public Service activities so I um mentioned at the outset that we really very much want your input there again is that QR code and it's primarily in these three areas that we're hoping that you all could provide some feedback what are the most pressing Housing and Community Development issues what changed in the last 5 years what are the gaps out there um you all are one of about 40 different listening sessions that we have had over the development of our Consolidated plan we most recently held our public hearing on uh about two weeks ago actually I think it was two weeks ago tonight um that we had that we'll have another one in February um and very much want people to come to that to provide out the provide feedback on these uh goals and strategies so I know I went through a lot right there in relatively quick fashion um but I am hoping that we can uh use the remainder of our time prior to Eric uh coming and joining us uh on providing any feedback um so again thanks for the opportunity thank you thank you Elijah um does anyone have anything they would like to ask Elijah or U about the plan so um so that the super great analysis so what did they think the steps are moving forward to actually start creating more affordable housing sorry can you say the first part of that again oh I said great presentation nice oh thanks thanks sorry

yeah was great that was informative to hear what the countyy is doing thank you thanks thanks but it was a analysis but yeah what are they what are they thinking so we're we are right now our draft um let me pull that off so right now our draft goals and strategies um really I mean to be candid they they really are remaining relatively the same I mean in the last five years housing affordability the only thing that's changed about it is it's gotten worse right so the only thing that's changed about homelessness is it's gotten worse it's gotten harder to deal with right and so we we are proposing as of this moment um to have the goals of of um promoting safe accessible and inclusive affordable housing um to the County's lowest income residents um to reduce housing and economic disparities across communities uh to prevent an end homelessness um uh promote healthy diverse and sustainable communities and then to implement the County's fair housing plan and so we are working with a variety of other jurisdictions within the region to develop a regional analysis of impediments that can then be taken and and folded into each of those jurisdictions plans and we're working in coordination with the Baltimore Metropolitan Council on that uh Dan Pontius is a great point of contact for anyone interested in that um so yeah

that's those are our proposed goals at the moment yeah that's great stuff Elijah I have a question get and and and and I'm just curious to know is there any affordable housing being proposed in anonda county for Working Families yes I mean I work for the state and I don't you know that's neither here nor there but in all of the years that I work for them and I watched the development of affordable housing for families I've never really seen them develop anything in my tenure with the state and then living in the county um I haven't seen anything I've seen a few senior buildings go up up there in Glen Bernie um and nothing much I don't I haven't seen anything like in in in in the Pasadena area you know for Working Families that's affordable and I just because I'm not really in touch with you know the state and seeing what they they are doing I haven't seen anything come up in in in in my 20 plus years of living out in this County um and I'm just curious when are they going to when are they going to bring more affordable housing into this County they poured millions of dollars in the prince georg's they've poured it into Howard County and they've poured it into Baltimore city but I don't see anything coming into anandu County and do you have any insight as to what is being proposed on that side there's plenty I see a lot of Development coming up along 695 up there what we call C the hill but that's not affordable housing it doesn't

even there's not even mpdu that we could help some people get a fresh start and I'm just curious are they ever going to do anything out here so I think there's a couple of things to keep in mind I think it's a there's the financial side and then there's the non-financial side so starting with the financial side in 2000 in in 2023 the city enacted a rision of their deed transfer tax on properties valued at a million dollars or more that has really started to with funding with that funding did going to the County's affordable housing trust fund so what's unique about that and very good about that it is is that it is a non-appropriated dedicated source of funding right it's outside the annual Appropriations process it's a de it's G it's just it's going to happen so I think step one was that right step two was doing some of the revisions needed from a non-financial perspective to incentivize developers to develop more affordable housing and that's what the mpdu bill does right it gives a density bonus in those units that improve the level improve the percentage of uh of units that are r affordable and makes that requirement for units that I believe is at the 10 unit and above level with increasing amounts above 10 units a minimum of 10 units or more so it exempts those nine or less or fewer I

believe is what that legislation says and so now that we've got those two in addition to going through the five-year Consolidated plan process just like Eric has been coming and talking with us about through the comprehensive plan process there is a zoning uh there is a comprehensive plan being done at the county level as well to look at the zoning ordinances and where quote up zoning may be able to occur to improve opportunities for density not requirements for density to be very clear but opportunities for density and I think that distinction is very clear because it's been my experience in the past as a member of this commission that that that that distinction has been confused at times I would offer and so I think we are in 2025 finally reaching a point where we've got the key elements coming together and even prior to 2025 in 2024 we had seven projects enter our overall Pipeline and so I will just shared that also acds institutionally has begun to change to reflect this and we are most recently joined as our affordable uh Chief affordable housing officer um uh a woman who was previously with dhcd and so she's very Adept at the tax credit process of how to layer in some of these Capital subsidies like home like cdbg recognizing the need for operating Subs to be a part of that and we've got with being the administrator of the home investment partnership the ability to layer in some TBR through that right and

so I think we're at a very unique moment within Anar Rundle County of having both the leadership at the county level as well as now down into the um the kind of pragmatic level um the resources and the tools needed to really start moving on that um I think it is very important for anyone who is watching that they engage with their local elected official and if they believe that housing affordability is an issue that they their children their parents um struggle with then I think there it is important that they reach out and let their local elected official know about that challenge and that they also recognize that that is a result in part of overall market failure and that it is the it is a if it is an issue that you want address then it is something that is required for local government to come in and deal with and I think increasingly we're hearing from national leaders that really the the the responsibility ultimately lies with local elected officials and local local jurisdictions to take what that we got to do that so I know that was a long-winded answer to your your question but I hope that uh gives you a full spectrum so I also want to add um and I don't think you mentioned it there was something in the county Executives newsletter about a project in Severn for and and so Denise you might want to keep sign up for his newsletter because because like like Elijah was saying the county executive in an Rundle is very is very gung-ho on providing affordable housing providing more opportunities and has done a lot in his tenure to do that

and this and you can maybe Elijah you can talk more about this project it's it's a affordable housing project is that right do you know which one I'm talking about I am not sure honestly so I will be candid with you all like I mentioned I'm not on the development side oh okay that's that's not where I am within acds I'm on the the grant Administration side and the planning side for Grant Administration um I'm looking it up now it'll be in his newsletter that came so I've actually I collect his newsletters and so I think I know which one you're talking about Terry I um but I'm trying to go back and find it it was I think you're right it was just a week or so ago yeah yeah um and I looked it up because actually I think that that project might have already been under development but maybe by adding funds or you know they they brought down the cost of the rents I wasn't quite sure how it worked I'm trying to I am not entirely sure but I am G to be scanning through uh his newsletters which I get and um I Echo Terry's recommendation to sign up for them uh Um well hey quick question why you guys talk about that Denise you talk about those other counties that are getting this done how are they getting it done and how are they getting pass the push back like we get affordable housing what's the difference I don't know I don't know um Karen if it's in or under the county um I just know that in the course of a 20e stretch of working for Maryland Department of Housing and Community Development I personally didn't see any family houses being developed there's plenty of land to develop it on I don't know if the county didn't try to lure

lure that type of Market um or developers weren't interested interested in building an Anu County for whatever reason I don't know I don't know the nooks and the crannies of why I just seen them develop some elderly housing um they did a couple of rad projects on the public housing in an run County but they haven't built anything yeah the only place people can live in inunda county is Brooklyn yeah and well there there was a project in sna Park and it was a special exception use and the community killed it because of the fear I mean I'll just say this out loud yeah of of getting you know low-income housing it's not what it was but it was it was a requirement by the zoning ordinance I don't know if they still do that um they may have changed it but it really gave it a hurdle it shouldn't have had to go by yeah permitted by right so um but but thing Denise it's changing with the current leadership But A lot's being done now so I think it's a new day in Anna Rundle yeah it kind of looks like it because of you know even the push back for the MPD Youth and how that finally got through but it's just that it's just been a long a long time since anything I don't even I can't even name anything um outside of the public housing communities in Anon County that's here right one the name of one project that is privately owned affordable housing whether it's under the low-income housing tax credit program and of course I understand the overlay of Home funding and you know all of the different layers of afford

housing through the pro programs that Elijah spoke on home and and and tax credit and then the state of Maryland also has additional affordable home I mean State loan programs but there's just been no development in anaru county and as long as actually I can only say as long as I've lived in this County and that's been 30 years that's a long time that is a long time so in to your com commentary you know I'm glad we do have someone that really um is interested in doing more for the county but you know it's just it's I just kind of see like it's a county with potential okay that that has never really delved into that and I don't know that the entire county is against affordable housing so I don't know what it is yeah that has prevented them you know whether it's lack of Interest whether it's regulations or policies within the county because there is none and I'm trying to wrap my head around and look to see if there's anything that has been developed and it hasn't not for families well part of it is the new Housing Trust Fund is gonna there's money now as Elijah said there's money now to do those projects whereas you know the county has tried to keep tax rates low has limited the spending on things and that providing money for housing I mean I'm just surmising it there wasn't high on yeah it's not that they necessarily need money from the county because developers can go through the state of Maryland and get money through their Housing Trust their bond program lowincome housing tax credits also funds Denise I wonder too I wonder too if the

the the land value in anaro is probably higher I know it's higher than Prince George's it's higher than Baltimore city and that's a part of it you know it's not higher than Prince George's oh and Rundle yeah's land Valu higher than Prince George's yeah stop yeah maybe not in all areas but I used to work at Prince George's my son a house okay the it's affordable housing is available in Prince George's that's what that's what I'm saying and in all of you know all but I mean I mean just market rate Market is a lot cheaper in Prince George's than Anna Rundle we have very expens except for up north you know and maybe down south I heard Super Fresh take that I hadn't heard before today just talking about having this commission meeting today and I I want to say it comes out wrong but she was talking about the push back um on affordable housing which people think is Section 8 housing but it's like as we all know it's Workforce housing yeah he says great so they're going to put Crystal Springs in with a bunch of retirees but wouldn't it be better to have people that were Workforce housing they're going to really pump the economy because they're going out they're participating not that people in Crystal Springs wouldn't but I thought it was a really new take that I hadn't heard before Springs is a retirement community that's what I'm saying she's like why they're GNA be self-contained instead of like Workforce housing that gets out there and goes out to eat and participates in community that's a real generalization I know so go come at me retirees no no no wasn't my words either I'm just repeating no I know I mean when I worked for acds which was in early 2000 the only thing that were were the housing that was being built was senior housing tax credit senior housing they

did do that that's what they did they no acds also did uh got Oakwood family homes they got they got they do they do a lot they did a lot of rehab stuff they didn't do new they didn't do new development they did Oak family homes was a brand new development of 20 I think it's like 22 single family homes and after the 15 the first the 15year um credit period um expires then the people there can buy the home okay that's that's that's probably thank you acds for putting something in anond County Elijah well we wouldn't put it anywhere else you I guess you me yeah but that's the only that's the only one that comes to mind and and I just kind of could never understand why okay I just could never understand why so I was looking for the magic answer from you think there is a magic answer I don't think there's a magic answer I will say I don't think I'm the most qualified representative from acds to speak to the development history in terms of quantity and location of projects what I will say is in the relative short time that I've been with with acds one of the things that we have been particularly proud of is the year-over-year increase in the number of projects that are in our pipeline which has gone from I believe four to seven so I mean when you look at it from a percentage you know that's a 75% increase year-over-year I don't think it's reasonable to anticipate that that

level of trajectory will be consistent year-over-year on an on an ongoing basis but I think as we're all talking about the the fact I I think think it is reasonable to anticipate that there will be an upward trajectory and I think that's the overall conversation that we recognize I will take this opportunity to kind of lay this out there and I would appreciate any feedback that you all could offer on this is that I think we would all agree that how housing affordability is equal parts a supply issue as well as an income issue and so in the face of us really talking exclusively thus far about the supply side I do wonder if if there would be support from the community for more of an of an approach that includes the a look at what policies could be done on the income side of things is that I guess here's my question my question is one do you agree with that perspective and if so what do you feel like might be some policies on the income side that we could look at to improve the ability of the lowest income households within the county to afford housing I think you gotta wait for 2028 for that to be honest there are local and state revenue sources that are coming online I would point to tax revenue that

is generated from the sale of recreational Cannabis I mean great I mean that I know that that revenue is huge anticipated in anaro County to be at around $2 million a year oh not as much as I thought to be honest it's 35% of the overall tax revenue oh wow okay I don't know I think you haven't decided yet what to do with it right you're still working on how to use it we are in the process of standing up our commission just to Sid step from that though because I'm not asking directly about that I am just asking about the overall kind of General approach to the issue of housing affordability well Elijah in my experience I can offer this you know there are various programs and if the county wants to create their own programs they can layer income restrictions so that you have people that are at the lowest you know they're at the and we're looking at the lowest income range not um rent range but you know people that are at 30% of the area median or less you develop a a pocket of units for that when you when you create a development let's just imagine creating a development and so you have a range of income so you have so many units that 30% and the rents coincide with what the 30% rents are and you go up and you go up on a scale so that you don't create what people perceive as the nimi project and it's looking at

a community of working people some of them are up here in 80% range and you can scale and make a development with multiple income ranges but the rents are going to be restricted the downside of that is when you're creating in this type of deal you have to look and see if the rents across the board in a 10 15E period can sustain maintaining and um and covering all the debt service for the project you know so that they're at a 1.0 and sometimes the projections that they give you when they create a deal is um not always true but you have to make sure that however you create it with those levels that the project can can sustain the income will cover the debt and so but that's an idea as far as inclusive inclusivity I don't know if I should be using that word today after yesterday but to include all different income ranges you know you can have Market rents you can have you know different scales of restricted rents in incomes based on you know restricted incomes so I can appreciate that and I think particularly you're talking about kind of the income averaging within the tax credit program that you can do and things like that I'm talking about no income averaging will satisfy some of it but under income averaging the combination of the below 60% families because tax credits only go to 60% so you have to have a combination of up to 80 % plus below 60 to come up with an average income that fits into 60% now

that's another way of doing it but however you can also create communities that actually offer the very low and sometimes you throw like home funds into a development so that's going to restrict some of the units and home can go down to 30% and I believe up to 50% but don't hold me to that cuz I'd have to do my research so that's a program that could provide the lower addressing a lower but you can you can even offer through the different programs how you will structure your rents based on income and and rents but so I guess to come back to the original question is I feel like what I'm hearing from you are Strate a kind of the the point that you're making is that there are a variety of strategies that we can use with our existing Revenue sources to more deeply income Target the developments that we do work on correct did I get that correct well boy that would I could have said that and that would that would have saved me a whole lot of time but that was that's my thought so I guess I UND having articulated that I would say I understand your point but I would offer that I think that speaks again to the supply side of how we approach the overall issue and and and my question is do you all based on community need and based on changes in the last five years that we would be that there would be an advantage to looking at the another side of this policy challenge of housing afford

ability not just by looking at improving the supply of affordable housing but by also looking at ways that we can improve the incomes increase the incomes of households at the lowest end of the income Spectrum particularly Eli and V Let's Go unconventional like let's say this money doesn't go directly to housing this money goes towards Workforce Development because then it's more palatable for people who think that people are getting handouts so now you're developing Workforce skills you're develop skills that create sustainability to be able to afford housing right but when you understand can I Che I'm sorry Denise please go ahead I was gonna say but when you look at Workforce housing you have to look at all the incomes of Workforce of of the workforce and the work force goes all the way down to $10,000 yes up so even to including Workforce housing you want to include those people at the very bottom of the work guarantee and that's exactly what I mean like let's teach do a lot with rise and shine Bakery they teach people how to be Bakers because the pay scale is higher you know like if we can turn that into that or restaurants or construction or whatever that teach people a sustainable skill and I think a lot of it especially with with helping underserved and under income people is selling it to people that think people don't deserve it well everybody that goes to work every day deserves to have a roof over their head so sorry about that I shouldn't maybe I don't think you're gonna have find disagree with you on that I guess let me try and restate it one one a different way one last time I guess Karen when I hear Workforce

Development I feel like you know I've been using kind kind of these two sides right like the supply side and then the income side I feel like the Workforce Development Investments is a secondary strategy around that and I wonder if what I'm hearing is that yes we should look at other ways of improving income for the lowest income one way might be to improve access to Workforce Development and so I guess my final question to kind of reiterate on this is recognizing if if if we all agree that that is a secondary strategy are there any primary strategies that you all feel could be used to increase the incomes of households with the lowest incomes recognizing that's would be one way of addressing the need to improve housing access to housing affordable housing that's Karen's thing Workforce Development to teach I don't know why it's secondary right if you're TR if you're trying to bring up incomes before you provide housing then Karen is number one on the list her idea is number one on the list give them the skills give them the you know the job placement you know and help them get to where they need to get you know and places that we used to have places like that at least where I came where you went to places to pick up Workforce skills and then they place you in jobs maybe I hate to do this but it sounds weird and of course wrap around services to make sure that we're not just saying oh you've got to work to have housing which I mean we all have to work to have housing but yeah like this is a Housing Development that is based on you working these Workforce housing project you're trying to wrap it

right up in there like you have to have a job to live here kind of sort of uh yeah you got to put in the effort yeah yeah yeah to and and not like put in the effort the the the primary point is like lifting people up like yeah here's your job skill so that you could be successful you know I mean it doesn't mean that you won't ever go without subsidized housing or anything like that but I think it'd be a good opportunity for people to looking for an opportunity by themselves but don't know where to go and also need housing and I know it's a far reach as we're an affordable housing call but just trying to the box right being hopeful Cameron and there's nothing wrong with being hopeful of how you do things to help and lift people up I mean I think that's a valid point because if you lift them up and and and lead them to the water they'll drink you know what I'm saying but some people don't even know how to even start and if you've ever really worked in communities that they were trying to implement this type of these type of program you can see it which you can see it more realistically you know you're looking at people that sometimes are hopeless and they're hopeless because there's no Avenue for them to go to grow and and and if given the opportunity yep then they can move up so I I feel I feel everything you say and I feel it's more the compa the passion in it in the compassion and thank you for that I've worked on projects like that you know through my and I'm not trying to make it about me but I've worked on developments where they redeveloped the housing they provided a job center right there on the site um I started a program like that in Winston Salem like we needed housing we brought in volunteers to renovate housing brought in contractors we brought in the homeless people to learn

skills it's just a yeah you know it's an OP thing big proponent of all that and I know to Elijah's point we haven't really built out um list and maybe it's a good follow-up note for us to work on one just note to flag for the group that like I would I would love to imagine that we could have a universal basic income that would lift a lot of people up and then I see what's happening in La when rents double overnight because the supply changed and could imagine that without uh also tackling some some policy just being thoughtful to ensure that you know as as we collectively as a city county state do make progress if if we're successful in improving the kind of economic buying power of of today's low-income earners that we don't put them in a position where that they become a pass through to higher rents that that prey on them sorry so rich I really appreciate you sorry go ahead Karen I just I didn't hear the last part but in a position to what to be a pass through where any additional income they earn is essentially taxed by their their landlord um because we've been successful in raising income that landlords take advantage so make sure that we're prepared on the policy side as we're thinking through these so rich I really appreciate you making that point and I think there are two ideas that I would just offer as possible to directly address that one is a local level Renters Tax Credit and then number two or a state level Renters Tax Credit um and then number uh two would be I mean increase an increasing number of communities are looking at at a minimum piloting and exploring the benefits of a of some form of a

guaranteed income um and so looking at how households use that and what we have seen in studies within hundreds of communities that have used guaranteed income um is that what those households end up using that money for are three primary things housing child care and groceries and so I to to Rich's point I think it is important for us to begin looking at policies on both sides of both the supply side but also the income side because I do not think it is reasonable to anticipate that in any period of time we're going to be able to ramp up our development of affordable housing in any way that is going to to to substantially diminish the Gap that we know is out there and is growing I think it is most reasonable to anticipate that at best we can bend the trajectory of growth of that Gap but then the issue is still we're going to deal with that Gap I'm not sure exactly how we can get to your income side though in the comp plan so I think I mentioned in my presentation I I I apologize I've literally done this three times in the last four days um so one of the things that we are trying to do is to create a broader policy document with the development of this Consolidated plan that will help guide

the overall vision for what the county wants to do to address affordable housing and housing affordability r large right like kind of and I think that's the big shift that at least at the city level we were really able to make starting with the affordable with the housing affordability commission right like we we we changed the name of it from the housing affordable housing commission and I think that's kind of the overall tack that I'm wondering if you all feel is appropriate the county to make as well recognizing that there are things on both both sides the county side and the city side that everybody wants to see done right like the Count's making steps on some things Ci's making steps on other things right so like where can we kind of encourage each other to try and sync up to the fullest extent possible all right um I see that Eric has joined us so do we want do we have any more comments or questions for Elijah or shall we turn over to our our next topic any more questions I just want to say thank you what you presented your ideas you presented was very very helpful it just makes some of us think outside of the box a little bit more as to how we can approve living in both the county and in the city of Annapolis so thank you again it was a great presentation I learned something new today yes I second that for sure well thank you all very much um just to make it official I now

leaving this meeting as a member of acds and rejoining as a um as a resident and I'm gonna change my name on the screen to reflect as such so Erica has joined us thank you Elijah and Eric has joined us and we'd like and he's graciously agreed to talk to us sort of an update on where we stand with implementation of the Consolidated plan we go from the bum plan to the Consolidated plan other way around opposite opposite Consolidated plan yeah okay um the most important thing is we're trying to figure out how we can be of help yeah I'm sorry I missed um Elijah's presentation I'll have to watch the video because we are starting our City's Consolidated plan very soon so we should um check in on on what the counties is looking like and um see how we can align them but um but no what I'm talking about tonight is how we're advancing the comprehensive plan goals for the city um so I'm going to share my screen here um what I'm going to talk about is our rezone our comprehensive rezoning initiative um can you all see my screen yeah okay so um zoning changes zoning reform is typically one of the most important next steps once a comprehensive plan is adopted by a city or county Council so the county is doing rezoning region by region um as a city

we're doing we're about to embark on the same thing we are we've initiated a a comprehensive rezoning initiative and we're proceeding um carefully and strategically because we want to do things that people will support and will advance the goals and you know when I say comprehensive resoning I don't mean that we're changing in the zoning of the entire city um we're looking at opportunities within the city all over to um to to uh chain zoning to achieve better outcomes and so we gave a presentation excuse me Eric for one second background noise if we could all mute our microphones that might be helpful that's a good point thank you Denise I'm sorry I didn't mean to no no I was about to say that too yeah so I don't know who's not on mute but yeah um we we kicked off this initiative in November I gave a real um kind of off-the-cuff uh discussion at I think your last meeting and I was sort of in transit so I didn't have a pres I wasn't at my computer but I wanted to give you a little bit better overview um we we kicked things off in November at the Planning Commission and then we gave a file basically every month we're giving a presentation to the Planning Commission to kind of update them at their meeting and we can kind of do the same with this commission I think it's important for you all to be engaged on this because housing Supply and preservation is a very important goal of this resoning perhaps the most important and you know when you look at um places around the country that have been successful in reforming their zoning to

achieve better housing outcomes vast majority of them have a very established or newly established housing advocacy organization um they really helps to support the goals and we don't really have that here I think this commission maybe the closest thing um to kind of a Grassroots organization I obviously you're aligned with the city and you're part of the city's um government but I think we're going to need Advocates to help support what we're doing here and and you know and think critically about it and and help improve it and but um I'm not going to do this whole present we actually got only about halfway through this presentation to the Planning Commission and we're going to give the second half on February 6th when we go back and we're actually tweaking things as we go but um I'm GNA jump over a few things but first um in the city's code uh code of ordinances when we make changes to the zoning map it's pretty well spelled out the procedure for doing that and you can see in chapter 2134 um it talks about application procedures for making change the zoning map and and we're addressing number three here compr comprehensive zoning map amendments um so you can look at that more if you'd like but we would breaking up our rezoning into three phases um and this initial phase we had initially thought might go through May in hopes of providing some recommendation for zoning changes to the m zoning map to the city council before

June um to allow them to um uh to meet a deadline that is set where when we have an election coming up I'm sorry hold on just one sec I gotta um I got a dog here whining in the background hold on let me thanks sorry about that um let me go back to the presentation um we've kind of learned very quickly that our phase one is is not going to be very realistic to really get to a kind of a consensus recommendation by to really have SE Council take anything up that's this uh potentially loaded um we need more time you know and to really get it in front of the right people and you know just it's gonna have impacts on various properties and so this phase one this whole schedule is going to push to some degree but the one piece here that might be realistic to get in front of the city council by May is this plan development code and that's really the those are the guidelines that larger infill Redevelopment projects typically use to to to proceed they the plan development code provides greater flexibility to these infill developments um in exchange for working more closely with planning department um and the

Planning Commission to get a better outcome for their project and so but if you look at that today and I'll talk about more it's plan development code is pretty um confusing and not very easy to understand so this another way of looking at the schedule these public workshops are going to get pushed out probably to March but they're going to be coming up soon and we've even talked about doing kind of like a general education about zoning and the the impact that it has there's a lot of misinformation and you know misunderstanding or not enough understanding about what it is um we created a website um about this project this initiative to do comprehensive resoning and really if you just Google comprehensive rezoning you'll you'll come to this page on the city's website um and we're we're putting all of our presentations there on the right side um and links to the Pres to the PDF presentations um so this is what we mean by I should have had this as the first this first slide um comprehensive resoning it's it's bringing about the better consistency between comprehensive plan the zoning map and the zoning code we talk about the comprehensive plan priorities these are just some of them and bulleted here um I think housing access for all I mentioned is really one of the is is sort of the major goal we're trying to address here um but I think if we do it right we get better neighborhoods too we get neighborhoods that are more mixed income walkable um have close amenities close to where

people live um you know we get neighborhoods that are um uh true to um the assets that Anapolis already has you know we're not um I think think we want to build on the kind of neighborhood character that's already here and take cues from housing types that have worked historically in the city um we have an incredible assortment of that missing middle housing is a as you all know a lot of it is not legal by our current zoning code so that's part of what we're trying to do here get back to make Anapolis more Anapolis um this is really the critical exhibit from the comprehensive plan that shows um the land preferred land use or the the highest and best land use for every parcel of land in the city and in yellow is residential areas we're generally saying everything that's residential today should stay residential um there's a lot more green on this map than what would have been in the last comprehensive plan in 2009 we're just sort of acknowledging that city has incredible green Network um but the red Parcels are the really the highlights for right now I want to talk about those are the areas that we're saying should be mixed use which means residential plus commercial or office or institutional uses like um uh churches government offices um in a lot of those areas were primarily um Zone um I identified as as office space or commercial in the last comprehensive plan today we're saying these places on

our major corridors are too valuable to just be seen narrowly as office space or retail space but these are places where we could be doing infill housing Redevelopment in combination with compatible uses um that would make it a better place to live and then if you look at our zoning map it's kind of hard to make out real clear patterns of of uses um 31 different zoning districts that we've just kind of added to over the years um it's like a table of elements but perhaps even more confusing um it it has some themes you know the r zones are residential the the B zones are Comm business or commercial um the C zones are conservation zones and those are downtown Anapolis historic district areas the pzones are professional office or some combination of professional office um but for for a city our size to have 31 different zoning districts is um is really unnecessary I mean cities much much larger than ours have half this number of zoning districts um and it's just made for a zoning map and a zoning code that's really hard for the average person understand let alone an elected official um or someone on your commission so I'll skip over this but this is um we're first thing we're saying is we need a a new zoning even though we're trying to reduce the number of zones we don't have a zone that is geared towards parks and open space um all of our parks in the city are zoned for other things like residential even

though they're dedicated Park land um and we have lots of conservation areas in the city they're all zoned for things other than what they are dedicated to be so this is just kind of low hanging through we're gonna um we're g to basically put all of the dedicated parks and conservation areas into a zone that can help clarify what is intended for those areas um that's um a little bit outside the purview of your commission but then the main focus here is on zoning District consolidation and you know again looking at all of these places that are identified in red in our future land use map from the comp plan you know the theme Here is looking at our major corridors and where mixed use development makes sense um and what we've done is ident identify within those red mixed use places um where we kind of projecting for mixed use we're saying well what are the zon there today what are the zoning districts and do they encourage or allow for kind of mix of uses that would make for um really compact efficient um development and these are the zones that we found are either inconsistent with that Vision they're redundant outdated underutilized zoning districts or there's they're next to communities they're sort of looking for better outcomes in terms of new development and so we have um what about nine nine zones here that we think we could basically eliminate from the zoning map without a whole lot of consequence tomorrow um but we have to do the analysis to show that

what would those zones become we have two zones already that we think are great candidates to be more broadly applied one is the MX Zone it's this green along inner West Street primarily and then the BCE um stands for business Corridor enhancement and that's chinkapin and Upper West Street and a bit of um old Solomon's Island Road and a bit of Hudson Street um and these two you know this is where they are today they could be in other places and so what we've done is just uh you can see where they fall on this mixed use future land use map um so they're squarely within places where we want to have mixed use and um you know these are some examples of what kind of development has been produced in these zones um you can see there clearly a different scale um intended between the MX and the BCE uh one hand the MX is geared more towards kind of like smaller granular Urban Street Scapes like in West Street and then the BC is um higher density you know um major Corridor development um like this property at chinkapin um West Street 1901 West and both you know both have been pretty successful um just some more examples of what you'd find in each of these zones um some mix of stuff but we did is we also looked at you know what are the uses that are allowed in these zones that make them really good for mixed use development and we pulled out you know in yellow here these are this is in our zoning code the way we identify the uses that

are allowed in each Zone um typically residential development is broken down into these types of categories multifam single family attached which are like tow houses single family detached two family it's like a duplex dwellings above ground floor of non-residential uses so residential over retail and then this is just a sampling of uses that we think make for successful mixed use developments um you know that people would want to live close to for convenience and you can see most of them the p means permitted um here's the key down here STD means um it's subject to standard so want to a restaurant you have to meet certain standards that are listed elsewhere in the zoning code um see in BCE we're really not encouraging single family attached homes or detached um or two families really aimed at just multif family development and then MX all of those smaller types of residential encouraged uh allow by wri um I'm gonna stop there for now I think um we get we get into like much greater detail here um let me see actually let me let me go to one example um and I'll just pause like West Anapolis um is a part of of the city uh that where the residents have been fairly outfront in sort of asking for zoning changes to their commercial area which is shown here on the map which you can see is zoned as P for professional office or PM is is professional office mixed so it does allow for some mix of

uses this is um right here is the growls Supermarket shopping center so that's that's a b Zone and we are looking at POS probably including the B zones in this initial phase consolidation but in this presentation we didn't include them um so the P Zone you can see it's in other places in the city along Forest Drive there's a couple spots along bayge Avenue um downtown Anapolis has some like primarily State Office Buildings and um some examples of what in West Anapolis is in the the P Zone today this is the the the state archives building on the bottom and then a newer office building here on um gettings I believe and and then the professional mixed office District also other parts of the city German toown area West Street is right here and um here and then old Solomon's Island Road has some professional mixed office and you know these are some examples in West Anapolis of what that what those professional mixed buildings look like today and you know important to acknowledge that some of these buildings this is a Prof this is a medical office building West Anapolis it could be adapted to be a residential commercial building tomorrow perhaps I mean it's not I don't know exactly what the floor plans look like in this building but when you look at this without knowing what's in there it looks like a building that could be residential and Commercial so some of these properties could be retrofitted um to produce different outcomes there there could be a perfectly reasonable

need for medical offices well into the future in West Anapolis so I'm not discounting that as a use here but um we think this is an opportunity this area in general is an opportunity for more housing in combination with other uses um it doesn't necessarily have to mean re totally rebuilding a lot um but retrofitting is possible um if we were to see new Redevelopment um these are some examples of what that could look like you know this one on the right is already in West Anapolis recent develop on Anapolis street with apartments above and Retail below is by no means a um uh housing that is Affordable to low or moderate incomes but what we're trying to see are greater variety of housing options that don't exist in the city today and I think um as we revise the zoning code I think I am going to stop here we're looking at consolidating the zones first just to purely simplify the zoning map make more zones um identified as mixed use but then we're looking at changing the language in these zoning districts to perhaps incentivize um housing uh affordability um various options for housing um that you know uh a developer could be incentivized to produce and you know some of that could be done in our plan development code as well where you know we could basically say um you know density bonus or something

like that you know in exchange for housing that is um you know fixed income or provides mod more moderately priced dwelling units or something like that but um but but yeah so that's that's kind of the direction we're headed and this presentation just goes to all the different neighborhoods where we see these opportunities to consolidate zoning and produce different outcomes so I'm happy to take questions um about this um this point I don't have a go ahead I'm sorry I I just I wanted I wanted to get into how you see us helping helping you is that is it for us to go and attend the various meetings participate in those meetings yeah so there's G to be some lead time on this so um what I think when we eventually get to um zoning a z you know zoning ordinance that will be you know city council will recommend zoning map changes um and that will lead to a zoning ordinance that will be um sponsored by council members um at that point you know we're going to need a lot of advocacy around um around these changes but kind of like leading and that's where I think you know um you all could help testify and but I think leading up to that point we need to have changes that people who are you know um passionate about our housing challenges um and trying to help see see the value you know I think the

changes that we're gonna propose they need to make sense to you all among other stakeholders out there but I think if they don't make sense to you then I think we're not heading the right like we already have to kind of go through the Planning Commission that's sort of more of a procedural thing um to get you know zoning recommendations um that are sort of vetted and but I think this commission is also very important as kind of a reviewing body um Planning Commission I think is going to be looking at things other than housing just candidly they're not going to be solely focused on housing issues but I think you all are and um can I add something Eric I mean because because your last slide your last discussion really got kind of where we are in terms of how do we change the ordinance to to promote more affordable housing um we had that legislation that didn't go anywhere um is that kind of thing going to be incorporated adding a little more density to some of these zones and tie it to providing affordable housing is is that going to be part of those zoning changes what what we were thinking is as you move forward with the zoning changes working with you to for the people to better understand that there's low-income housing there's subsidized housing and there's affordable housing and they're all different so that was the piece that Karen and I talked about um and I'm I'm thinking the task force may have had some good information or maybe some even good presentations that we could use to be part of that to promote that housing is so important and the things we can do to promote more affordable housing as part of your Outreach not be separate but be part

of yeah at this first stage the zoning the zoning changes the zoning map changes aren't going to be they're not going to be specifically addressing different housing types P or um based on income um we're going to be looking at ways of allowing for greater diversity of housing based on density you know more places where multif family or duplexes or just other small apartment densities can can exist you know there was a there was a map in the comprehensive plan that showed just how much of the city that is zoned for residential today doesn't even allow for a base duplex so we're looking at housing typologies more than income levels I would say at this stage but the thing the area where I think um we're gonna po possibly have the ability to look at income restricted housing is in the plan development ordinance which um um me see I think I have another presentation that talks you would already get mpdus through the through those developments right you're already we we get mpdus only for projects that are over 10 units um and it's basically just one unit for every 10 I believe um so this this could be this could be addressing those smaller developments where we don't get anything it it could and that was you know that's kind of what we're TR to get out with that legislation a couple years ago but um Eric I'm sorry aren't the NPD us for new

construction isn't that what the code covers that it's new construction for the mpdus that's right I think um Terry was talking about like new new duplexes or triplexes that would not oh the smaller ones okay I'm sorry also less than how many units is it what's the number of units now it's like 10 I think it's 10 is the threshold yeah so if it's less than 10 units then they don't have to provide it either right correct yeah um and so when we look at plan developments in the city um they follow these standards and this just gives you a sense of when I talk about plan developments I'm generally talking about the larger developments but there is no size threshold to a plan development it just generally doesn't make sense for for a property owner developer to do a plan development unless they have a certain size because they're going to be more involved um there's going to be a lot more sort of negotiation with planning staff it's a complicated process I mean we look for it is very beginning I mean I wouldn't want to I shouldn't say that but I want but but but here's where it come becomes very valuable I mean with a plan development you know you can adjust the bulk standards meaning you can have greater density you could basically have uses that are not typically allowed in that zoning District um um you can basically do things that are beyond what you would do if you were just kind of sticking to the zoning code um by right and so the problem with the plan development guidelines today is they're fairly confusing and then it's interesting like

um let's see here um yeah so they talk about um the kind of community amenities that a a property needs to provide in a plan development it's generally like Community open space um Parks playgrounds you know common areas um but it doesn't really get into the streetscape environment you know we have all this stuff in the comprehensive plan about complete streets and making housing that is you know has really great walkable streetscape in front of it um we don't have any standards for that today in the city we also have this bike Network we have a Greenway Network this is all from the comprehensive plan and so when you think about making changes to the plan development guidelines you know there's obvious opportunities to be much more specific to get you know kind of more sensitively designed developments that really cater to Neighborhood design and you know aren't just kind of inward-facing but are really sort of more public in their the way they're designed um the thing I wished I I thought it was in this oh yeah here it is so I should have started with this SL this is the this comes directly from the code um the six purpose statements for plan developments and on the left is just a sampling of all the different uh variety of developments some are still in the design stage like this one in the bottom right is called parole place um but it would be at the intersection of Forest Drive and old Solomon's Island Road and

it got approved by Planning Commission this past year the Willows is here on the bottom left um all of these have met the intent of the plan development guidelines to varying degrees you know and I think the issue you know you could point to the Willows an example of like a project that because of sort of the vagueness the plan development intent you know it made for a situation where there were a lot of people critical of the wills there still getting all that feedback from somebody I'm not really sure who it is but um you know but I'm happy to see The Willows development under construction we've turned a page on that but I think a lot of the criticism it got was partly because we you know our guidelines for plan development are pretty vague and you know we're trying to get really high quality development it's hard to it's very subjective um you know and one of the criticisms was that it has a lot of parking lots that are sort of dividing the buildings and and where we could have better common space between the buildings and you know and that is not really well spelled out in the plan development guidelines and I think the thing that's probably most important to point out this number six to promote development that's consistent with the goals of the comprehensive plan well what are those goals you know we could be much more specific about the goals that we want plan developments to meet um and housing diversity could be one of them you know there's no there's no reason why it couldn't be it's it's a major issue in the city I think we need to be very specific in how we word that

to get you know the kind of outcome we want but um but can I ask a question one thing I worry about because I mean I I heard some Scuttle about the Willows is that if you're asking asking developer to do affordable housing or to do a portion of affordable housing to hold them to the same same strict guidance that somebody who's doing private development that can that can charge whatever they want for the units I mean is that it almost seems like if we want to promote affordable housing that there needs to be some public involvement in promoting the design and not putting it all on the developer I mean we talked about that when we we had our we had our Rags I mean I know somebody who's trying to develop in the plle area now and she's just a small development and she's being held to all these standards that it would be fine if you were a big developer putting ins sidewalk I mean she it's killing the project and so I guess I just worry about that when I see planed developments you usually get bigger projects more expensive projects um you don't get the smaller kind of projects that maybe would want to do affordable housing that's no that's a that's a really good point I it's true that a lot of the developers who focus on um affordable housing have very very limited Financial Resources to do things Beyond just the housing self and you know you start to their their MO their financial model just doesn't allow for the things that you know I just generally make for better development you know streetcape conditions like this you know the village greens or Acton Cove um the condos there or I mean really any of these have these really great public

spaces that you know cost additional money I I think that so the city can do more to kind of come to the table on these and um I think that we are so I can tell you that we're looking at ways of doing that and and um one of the ways is it's going to be reflected in our Consolidated plan but we're really interested in leveraging our cdbg funds that's the money we get from HUD that we know about that Eric I'm glad I hope so um but you know I mean there's opportunities to use those funds for um public amenities um we could do that um we could use other resources to come to the table and say well hey we have a developer who wants to do an affordable housing development at a major on a major Corridor um they are going to need some assistance to do you know to do something better in regard to the public amenities and streetscape and we can help them out there but I think that to not have that be to to say that like affordable housing development shouldn't have the same sort of quality of life in in terms of their amenities and surroundings that like market rate housing has is I think is maybe not the right way to think about it I think well I I don't disagree it's just how do we fund it yeah so then I think maybe that's something our committee can help with is promote that there needs to be more Public Funding of those kinds of things because we want we want to focus on good housing yeah and the rest needs to happen but maybe not all on that developer yeah yep yeah no I mean that that thinking about that kind

of challenge would be really valuable I think that's a um is it's a formidable thing and we're seeing it with you know there's some interest you know along Forest Drive like not just the Willows but other sites where the market conditions are sort of favoring projects they're using low-income tax credits and so we don't want to turn those types of projects away um but we also want great development on Forest you know we don't want Forest Drive to be just like you know a generic Suburban strip you know we want to treat it as a major Boulevard for the city um and and that was something else that you know I think the Willows got criticism on you know that the development um design for the Willows is is a design that the developer has used in multiple loc that architect has used in multiple locations in other places um you know we want distinctive architecture you it doesn't have to be um as expensive as high-end you know know condos but it can still be designed for a particular place and context and you know be something that seems appropriate for Anapolis and you know something you wouldn't see anywhere else um what's interesting about this too in when I was working with the United Way in Winston Salem um had hqs housing quality standards certified St passes here that would never pass in Winston Salem so it's interesting talking about like what you guys think is a barrier which is not a I mean it's not here it would be there um but second question is like what is the timeline on any of this well so we're

we're actually working on some changes to this plan development um guidelines right now and something this is probably the one thing that I think we could probably have in sort of draft form by late spring um and it's probably something I'll be able to share with you um but the zoning map changes I think realistically we would be looking at early 2026 because and the big problem is that we have the election I shouldn't call it a problem but you know it's we have potentially a large turnover on our city council in November yeah um so we're gonna have new people coming on who haven't been involved in any of the comp plan or um any of the discussions that we're having and we're going to need to get them up to speed and so that's partly why they put this um you know there's a June deadline on zoning changes um but then we'll want to we're gonna keep moving on sort of doing our analysis for how we can simplify and improve the zoning map um create more of these mixed use zones um so but I think realistically to to get to like a a zoning ordinance that the city in front of the city council it's probably going to be early 2026 realistically um if we didn't have such you know the if we didn't have the election I would say maybe end of 2025 but um feel such a far way out I mean it sounds really far for housing what' you say I said it's still such a far way out if you're thinking about people struggling for housing and we can't get anything done for a year

plus well so the I don't want to undersell the value of this if if if we can change the plan development requirements in a way that is very housing focused that's one way of getting some immediate outcomes because um there are a number of sites in the city if you look at um if you look at the comprehensive plan there was a a spread called major infill sites in the land use chapter and you know where we identify a dozen sites in the city that we anticipate to redevelop in the near future or we would like to see redeveloped and several of those are active sites today and they're not um if and they're being kind of slowly worked on by by their owners but if if we could create a plan development um policy that you know is really geared towards better housing outcomes I think we could get some immediate more immediate results on some of those larger properties I think yeah that we're not going to see the the the smaller missing middle type stuff I hate to say it but is not going to be an immediate thing it's um it's probably the most controversial aspect of any of our zoning that we would like to do which is to say that there could or should be any changes to our residential zoning um it's it's um you know we've seen it we've seen the kind of um response that gets so the only way we're going to be able to address that is through new standards for residential design that kind of give give folks some

um faith that you know any kind of infill duplex or Triplex or something is going to look like you know there single family home next door or something you know it's that we that's really the only way we're going to be able to do it in my view but yeah that makes sense the the immediate focus is on these mixed use areas because that just really that was really the consensus that came out of the comprehensive plan process from city council and residents um who participated that that the the major corridors particularly Forest Drive and and West Street are full of properties today that could be performing much better you know from all kinds of in all kinds of ways you know housing in particular but and you're and your expectations are that those the new development in fact you mentioned some that have been improved that they're gonna have mpdus as part of that oh yeah that's not going to go away that'll be um like the new parole development yes yes how many mpdus are going to be in that do you know I don't know offand but um I think but 10 to 20 or so um but yeah I me that we can at least fall back on that you know I mean I was really um really glad to see inal County pass their mpdu ordinance um doesn't help a lot of the stuff that was already under construction in the parole area but I think that's going to be a game Cher for things happening in the county um so that that we can definitely and and that probably could be improved um the policy on mpdus you know should it apply to developments under 10 units May perhaps um um yeah I mean that that might be another thing to like that's a

recommendation in our comprehensive plan um to improve the requirements for the mpdu policy um that could be something we work yeah definitely I mean um for years it it was a you know there was a loophole that allowed a development to pay a fee in Li instead of actually providing the units and that was corrected and but there still could be changes to kind of create more I mean yeah I don't you know what do you know the county the county what the county requires I I didn't I don't but it would be worth looking at um yeah oh sure I don't know if anybody no I don't I don't know off hand what the threshold is at the county level um it might be higher than what the city has because probably probably yeah it could be like 20 unit developments um but I I'm not sure um I'm pretty sure it's I'm pretty sure it's um T okay that's good um so yeah I think where we are right now is we've reaffirmed our interest in helping you and you should always keep us in mind yeah and when you need us contact us you know when you get your draft you get some draft language on your rewrite of your planed developments you do other things contact us even as you're developing it and and we would be delighted to help you and to provide our input and and act as your citizen input um on as you go yeah in many ways

although we are part of the city in because we' all been because we've been appointed by the council and the mayor um we still are sort of that citizen arm I think and I think we can be helpful to you yeah yeah I I agree I mean I I will definitely if you want you can keep this comprehensive resoning as a reoccurring agenda item I mean I I um I think it's reasonable for me to just kind of since we're doing these updates to Planning Commission every month I can kind of give you the same update you know and and get your feedback I'm sorry I don't have any you know I know sure you're all eager to see something you know tangible that's like this is really just kind of the analysis phase right now but I think we're GNA have something tangible that would actually look at changing the wording in in the code pretty you know in the next month or two so um okay yeah all right I tried to search out the answer to the number of MPD used for anandu County and what I read is 10 to 15 yeah 10 to 15% I was just Googling it as you were talking and what I found is 10 to 15% it's it's 10 is it 10 well it I don't know I don't know about the I'm not talking about the percentage I'm talking about the number of units that kicks in where where mpdu kicks in and I'm pretty sure it's 10 Oh I thought they were looking for the we're on a different question I thought they wanted to know what was the percentage of mpdus that anandu county is proposing no I think it's how many units what's the threshold oh it's kicked but in all honesty I think they need to get rid of that

threshold because that way you can plug in working people into those MPD units in those communities like Karen and I talked about earlier that's something we I don't think there should be a thres on it well the the city already analyzed all that so we got to go back and Teresa's with us again so Teresa can tell us what the pitfalls might be for doing that you know I would invite her I would invite her back she definitely has G it given it a lot of thought so um but my my question to you Eric is is there any reason because one of the things we talked about and it was in and I think that Elijah's left yeah he had he had Child Care issues so that the city should that we that we should do a a informational Outreach about housing to the community and I guess my question is number one do you think that's valuable and number two when should we do it if we're going to do it I I think it could be valuable at any time I think right now it would be fine I think it's but it would but it would it really add value to what you're trying to do I mean trying to time it with your effort to Pro you know to promote housing affordability this would be just an isolation I don't you know it' be part of a bigger bigger kind of effort it makes to me at least to me I don't know about the rest of the committee it makes more sense I think there's like a need for general education about um that you know I see what you're saying about whether it could be timed with um legislation but honestly legislation but part of your effort to make changes just thinking about it strategically that's all I'm saying yeah right the thing is that if it it you don't think it's going to be of much it not that it won't be of much value but that it won't receive the

attention it just it needs unless it's around some specific goal change whatever we're going to have to whatever our education program is it can't just be out there on its own got to be around something well one one thing you could possibly do at your next meeting is is um you know like actually discuss if you were trying to convince people of the urgency of this issue or um why it's I don't know you guys probably do this every meeting already but like what what is the elevator pitch to somebody who's not familiar with the issue like um and that could help inform we could assist with that kind of we're gonna be doing Outreach too and you could help inform that just by kind of helping with some messaging ideas um that you think would have some traction um this um I'll give you um this is kind of fun let me let me show you something we we look at um um a second one of the things in our comprehensive plan that we we highlighted um the zoning changes that were made in Kingston New York um and they um they did a lot of really creative stuff this is beyond just housing but let me show you something here um um shoot um darn it hold see

um um oh yeah they did these flyers they um and they were they were focused on creating a variety of new development types that were not very similar situation to Annapolis their zoning code was sort of was not allowing for a lot of the different development types that people wanted to see or that would allow for more housing more amenities um closer where to people live and so they they kind of came up with these clever Flyers that hit on some of the some of the topics you know that came up um in their I guess in their Outreach and um you know in blue you could see the large areas that allow for duplexes or fourplexes or um you know neighborhood retail you know for buying milk or something but you know that's just one example um but I think that so were they proposing changes in the ordinance to do that is that what that those FL yeah they they actually they did a complete rewrite of their zoning code um and they're they're slightly smaller than Anapolis I they're about 25,000 people but they also have all the historic stuff um Maritime they're they're comparable to Anapolis a lot of ways Kingston was actually capital of the US briefly May capital of York briefly I think um Anapolis was the capital of us um but um yeah so they they share a lot of things with Annapolis I don't think we could I can't even imagine you know rewriting our whole zoning

code but um they did it and they won a lot of awards for it it's verying but they also had Consultants that they they hired they did yeah yeah I saw that I saw that planning presentation on it and oh you did yeah watch yeah yeah yeah I mean they hired it was it was an expensive undertaking I guess one of the great team yeah yeah one of one of the things that that might be of interest to folks is how much a new house costs in Annapolis how much new construction is costing really look at the land values and what's happening and that should get everybody's eyesight that you know if you if your child wants to move here I mean this is what you want somebody to move in this community it's they're not going to be able to afford to do it yeah yeah that might be a way to get people's interest yeah yeah in fact in that webinar the person from Kingston who was presenting I think he mentioned that they had seen home sale prices double since 2019 H rental prices on average had um gone up like 70% um wow yeah so they had some really good um metrics to kind of point to but that could be really helpful to us you know like what do you think would would um what kind of messaging would really um communicate the issue well to to kind of a broad audience you know I'm thinking the task force may have had a lot of that it might have it might have yeah maybe so portable housing task force yeah they did a lot of that that's why that's why we got created partly that's true um but we didn't do any marketing stuff no messaging stuff yeah it's like it's real easy to get messaging no I'm

sorry what Nancy I don't no messaging stuff in there in the affordable housing task force report well there were a couple different reports I'm wonder I want to talk to Elijah about that because anyway yeah well that there were none in the ones that we did but yeah he would have great is yeah yeah okay okay sorry about that yeah put yourself you know like put your your um try to put yourselves in the in the position of people who are not as engaged on this topic as you are and like what would what would communicate what do people need yeah yeah because it's I I tell people all the time it's the comprehensive plan was very challenging to get participation on from a diverse cross-section of people because it's just not it is not something that the average person does not care about the broader City they care about their immediate neighborhood the road their traffic you know to get to places where they have to be and you know the idea of like what should happen in this neighborhood across town from me doesn't really have but um doesn't resonate right the consequence of being an unaffordable city has lots of ripples across our city that you know I think that then start to make an impact on people's lives and that you know can make the issue resonate more um but I I totally agree we actually had that conversation today a different conversation but um people people are largely selfish I mean they're in their own bubble so if you explain to them how this benefits them like this is how this benefits you and

your society and your neighborhood I think that's a better way to approach it than you gonna help these people you don't care about right right right exactly yeah well the other the other piece of this is if you're really talking about just doing the planned development sites that's that's a whole smaller fraction of the city it's not all over the place like kind of like what we were proposing to allow more flexibility in the city zones and the other the other piece of it though if people I know my friends are getting really tired of seeing new housing going up at really expensive prices and you most of us would be really happy or it's going to make my house more expensive but many of us understand it's pricing everybody out of the market yeah yeah for sure not giving really value to the community it's you know it's giving value to a smaller percentage and a lot of those folks don't even live year round in the community you know anyway that that might be some value in that I agree yeah okay I think that we have reached the end of our discussion on this at this moment great discussion I've been on this this commission for I think two years now and this is the lengthiest most involved one is I agree um but we it might it probably would be helpful as I said for as you go along Eric to just keep us involved and we'll keep you involved and and among ourselves we can talk about the whole messaging piece which is was going to be our next item on our agenda which we've sort of crossed into which is the education piece and where you guys are what you know what you've thought of um so you know we we'll sort

of keep each other involved um sounds good and you know as you if you're doing a presentation to the Planning Commission every month maybe we should just keep you as a permanent fixture yeah I think that would be valuable and we can do that we may also want to watch the Planning Commission meeting yeah yeah yeah so thank you very much Eric no problem no problem at all as I said I think we went in I think is there anything more about the education program education isue initiative okay I don't think so okay all right so we've done that so we've reached the is there any new business that we want to talk about in addition to what we've talked about I did I did notice the only new business item I have is we did I did notice that we may lose our one of our big contributors to our issues in Brooks if he becomes the replacement for Sarah yeah that's true he's one of the two candidates and it seems to me that the I guess they they do it the same way which is that the whatever the committee is they look and determine who should replace Sarah replacement for Sarah or Shena oh Shena for Shena shena's Sarah's replacement the other correct okay I thought I Sarah and so this would be Shena right so who's the other candidate other than Brooks I'm out of the L um some 26 year old Joel Joel the assistant to the mayor I think oh is that what he is yeah oh

interesting okay so we shall see and and now with Ross Arnette retiring and I don't know who else is no longer going to be a council member have almost a whole new Administration in the city of Annapolis we'll have a new mayor for sure so that'll be interesting all of it and then I is the mayor's race isn't this year is it no yes it is this year this is last year all right yeah so we shall see all right guys then I think we have hit the end of our evening is there a do I hear a motion to adjourn so moved a second Karen you're the only one here to second that the queen of second all those in favor I nobody's opposed so that will close