City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening and welcome to Brevard City Council regular meeting of August 3rd, 2026. It is great to see, I mean, we have a full house here. This is wonderful. We have all ages. I mean, young? I'm not quite sure. How about an age? How old are you? People ranging from age 11 to almost 100. So, it's a great span of our demographic, and it's so wonderful to see everybody here. As well as, I just want to welcome everyone that's watching us on the livestream. As we start, I want to introduce everyone that is sitting up here. And we have plenty of seats, folks. Just come on in and find a seat. But sitting up here on my far right is our city attorney, Mack McKellar. Next to Mack is Councilman Lauren Wise. Next to Lauren is Councilwoman Pamela Holder. Next to Pamela is Councilman and Mayor Pro Tem Aaron Baker. I'm Mayor Maureen Koploff. On my immediate left is our city clerk, Denise Hodgson. Next to Denise is Councilman Gary Daniel. Next to Gary is Councilman Dean Lytle. And at my far left is City Manager Wilson Hooper. And with that, I would like to ask Associate Pastor Vic Foster from the Glade Creek Baptist Church to please come join us and give the invocation. Thank you, Vic.

Good evening, everyone. Thank you for this opportunity to come and say a prayer before the council, knowing that we all need prayer. Heavenly Father, we are so blessed to be able to come together. We ask you to put us on one accord with you. Lord, I pray for each council member, asking you, dear God, to give them wisdom and knowledge in the decisions that they need to make. And we ask you, dear God, to have your way with each and every one of them. It'll be a blessing to this town, a blessing to every community. And that whatever they need to do, that you will guide them spiritually. And, Lord, when everything is said and done, we're going to be careful to give you the praise, honor, and glory. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.

Luke, could you tell us a little bit about Glade Creek Baptist Church?

Yeah. Glade Creek, we are a spirited church. We love to praise God. Most of all, we work on ministry. We want to have a community outreach program. different members and all try to use their gifts and talents throughout the community. And we want to minister to the least, the last and the looked over and try to make sure that everybody has a place that they feel that they are somebody in the eyes of God.

Well, we appreciate everything that you and your congregation do, and we are so glad to have Glade Creek Baptist Church as part of our community, looking after all of us. So thank you.

Amen.

Amen. All right, if everyone would stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Attention, honor, pledge.

With liberty and justice for all.

Madam Clerk, do we have a quorum? Yes, Madam Mayor, you have a quorum. All members are present.

Okay.

Council, you have the draft agenda. Are there any proposed changes to the draft agenda?

Mayor, I request that we remove item M1, Municipal Service District Task Force Proposal, and add a new item, I1, Cachers Valley Road Sewer Extension.

Any other proposed changes? Okay, Council, do I have a motion to approve the amended agenda? So moved. Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? The approved modified agenda is approved. Okay. The minutes. We have the draft minutes of the April 10, 2026 budget workshop. Are there any corrections or modifications to those minutes? Do I have a motion to approve those minutes?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Those minutes are approved. We have the minutes of the July 20th, 2026 regular meeting. Are there any proposed changes or modifications to those minutes? Do I have a motion to approve those minutes?

I move.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Those minutes are approved. All right. We're going to move right into awards and recognition. And we have a couple of very special things, actually three very special things that we are doing this evening. Now, the first thing I have is a proclamation. And this is a very special proclamation for a very special day. I'm not going to ask her to stand up here while I read it because it's actually sort of long. And Carolyn Lemon Winchester is going to celebrate her 100th birthday on August 9th. So she's just a little short of 300. And I want to recognize her, not just for reaching the age of 100, But for all of the things that she has done to support our community. And so, Proclamation Number 202620, honoring Carolyn Lemon Winchester on her 100th birthday, declaring August 9th, 2026, as Carolyn Lemon Winchester Day, and bestowing Carolyn Lemon Winchester of community Whereas, Caroline Lemon Winchester is celebrating a monumental milestone, reaching the extraordinary age of 100 years on August 9, 2026. And throughout a remarkable century of life, Caroline has witnessed profound changes in the world and has been a cornerstone of the Brevard community, embodying the values of resilience, wisdom, and grace. Whereas, Ms. Winchester has dedicated over 40 years of her life to serving the Transylvania County school system as a biology and Spanish teacher at Brevard High School. And after retirement, she developed a Spanish program for the county's elementary schools and served as a member of the Transylvania County School Board, leaving a lasting, positive legacy in our community. Whereas, for the past 13 years, Carolyn Winchester has been honored by her family with the Carolyn Lemon Winchester Scholarship, which is awarded annually to deserving students of the Bard High School and Roslin High School based on mood and academic performance. Whereas, Carolyn Winchester owned the Provide Davidson River Presbyterian Church in 1950, and has served in many leadership roles during the last 76 years. Serving as the first director of the church's preschool in 1957, and served on board for many years. Whereas, Carolyn Winchester was elected as the worthy Grand Matron of the North Carolina Order of the Eastern Star by its 40,000 plus members. from 1983 to 84, and have continued to be active for 80 years. Whereas, in recognition of her enduring contributions to the city of Brevard and Transylvania County, it is fitting and proper that the city honors this cherished resident. Now, therefore, I, Maureen Copelaw, Mayor of the City of Brevard, on behalf of the City Council and the residents of Brevard, who hereby proclaim August 9, 2026 as Carolyn Lemon Winchester Day in the city of Brevard, North Carolina, and commend its observance to all of its residents. And further, as a symbol of our city's highest esteem, admiration, and affection, I am proud to present Carolyn Winchester with the key to the city. May your 100th birthday be filled with the same love, warmth, and happiness you have so generously shared with us all. So, Carolyn, it is Thursday. And... I hope some of my former students are here to agree.

I'm glad you're happy, Mom. I probably could.

Would you like to make any comments? It's your turn.

I have never been so honored before unless I can split my five children just ahead of me. I came to Brevard as a school teacher, married a Brevardian, and I've loved having Brevard by home for many, many years. I have to say, I taught them all not because I wanted to, but because I was the only teacher of biology. Those were the worst grades I made.

Now I earned them.

I'm so grateful for this honor. There are many more deserving of this than me. I was just a regular student. classroom teacher and biology and chemistry teacher and directed us through the place and now I'm retired and enjoying doing just what I want to do if it's nothing. But thank you so much. May I give you a hug? Thank you very much.

Sure. Thank you for coming.

Thanks for coming.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining your grandmother. Great-grandmother. Great-grandmother. Great-grandmother. Oh, what am I doing? I'm not done.

I was going to say, you got to look. Okay.

Well, that was certainly special. Wow, you don't get to do that very often. All right, now I have another really great award, and this is to recognize Howie Granite. Howie, stand me up here, please. And I am presenting to Howard a certificate of appreciation in recognition of dedicated service to the City of Brevard as a member of the Parks, Trails, and Recreation Committee from January 2020 to July of 2026. Howie, thank you very much. And I want to give you one of my coins. This is the mayor coin. And you get that for community service. Now, Howie, you know, a lot of people think that when you get on a committee, oh, there's nothing to it. You know, you just go, oh, are we taking pictures? Okay. They think, well, you know, you just go to a meeting and you sit there and, you know, you vote on things. Oh, no. how he took the level of participation of being on our committee to amazing levels. I mean, he had things that he so believed in that he not only stayed on the committee for six years, not only went to the meetings, not only voiced his opinions, brought suggestions, brought creative ideas, but he actually went out and made things happen. He helped raise the money for us to purchase the additional 34 acres of bracken preserves. That would not have happened without Howie. Howie developed Brackenfest. Anybody here ride in Brackenfest? I was at the starting line, right? Every year at the starting line, so that counts. So I was at Brackenfest. Okay, but what he did was he created this entire event that raised money for Bracken, but it also raised awareness, this gorgeous, beautiful preserve that we have and what we were trying to do. And you may remember that two weeks ago, we were just out there doing the ribbon cutting for Bracken for the new trails that would not have happened without Howie. I think he bird dogged every single detail of those trails for years. He went out, I think, other than Mack Morrow, Howie is the person that knows Bracken the best. He knows just about every inch of those trails. But he made things happen, and he made things happen, and he made it happen for our community, and he made things better. And that's what serving on a committee is all about. It's participating in local government. And when people say, well, why should I? Or how do I make a difference? You do it by getting on a committee and then having the energy, perseverance, and dedication to actually go out and make things happen. I tell people, we can make anything we want happen as long as we're willing to work at it. So, thank you, Howie. Six years, I'm looking for, you know, you'll still be out there helping us. Okay, and over to you for some time.

Well, thank you, Maureen, and the Council, and the Fox Channel, the Rex Community for the last. I just probably want to sum it up. I've had the ability to go and walk with my wife, Elizabeth, on the trail, and she's recovering from her surgery. And being out there riding with friends on the trail and seeing parents with their kids on the bikes, getting texts from my friends as a five and ten year old are out there riding the trail, talking with other trail users that are hiking out there just saying how wonderful it is to have this new section of trail that just absolutely met what we were thinking about five, six years ago. To say that we needed to have more equitable trails close to downtown New Orleans so people didn't have to drive over the park to get there. about it, it was a lot of money. We had so many people from the community that stepped in and helped make it happen. I just felt like I was kind of the quarterback. Everybody else wanted to make this new trail a reality. I'm super grateful to everybody in the city. As you mentioned about being part of the committee, one thing that I really loved about this particular one was the community support for enhancing the amenities for the residents of the community. It wasn't about trying to get more tourists. It was about we have wonderful people that live here that could benefit from this enhancement. And there was a can-do attitude on the committee for six years. And that's what I really appreciated. I didn't feel this element of we can't community. And if you haven't been out to the new backing trails, please do. Go explore. It's not scary anymore.

It's still not easy, however.

You cannot erase weakness. You can build trails that can provide a challenge, but also something that allows you to enjoy the quiet.

And I am turning it over to our city clerk who is going to administer the oath of office to police officer Joshua Norton.

I, Joshua Norton, do solemnly and sincerely swear that I will support the Constitution and laws of the United States, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the state of North Carolina and to the constitutional powers and authorities which are or may be established

which are and may be established for the government thereof that I will endeavor to support, maintain, and defend the Constitution and laws of said State, not inconsistent with the Constitution of the United States.

To the best of my knowledge and ability. And that I will faithfully discharge the duties of my office as a law enforcement officer for the city of Brevard.

So help me God.

all right well we will now move on to public comments All right, public comment. The public is invited to speak during public comment at this time on any topic unless it is a public hearing item on this agenda. Anyone who wants to speak must register with the city clerk, which is the sign-up list. When it is your turn, step to the podium in front of city council. State your name and address clearly. Limit comments to three minutes or less and avoid repetition. Direct comments to the full council, not to an individual council member or to staff. And I will give you a 30 second warning when you are about to run out of time. All right, and I will call people up in the order that you signed. Our first speaker is Peter Offen.

Peter Offen, my address is 67 Willow Drive, Brevard, North Carolina. Good evening city council members and mayor. Today I come with a public comment of caution. As you consider criminalizing certain civil offenses within the city, I urge you to consider how this will impact the unhoused population at large. I understand a small group has caused problems, but don't let that small group force your hand to negatively impact a much larger population. As you know, housing is a crisis here in Brevard, in the county, in our state, in our nation. As you work to address this crisis here by supporting affordable housing projects and bringing online numerous affordable housing units, do not undermine that progress by criminalizing and shutting out the unhoused. A simple criminal charge can create a barrier to getting an affordable housing unit, perpetrating a cycle of poverty that harms our entire community. Many of the ordinances you're considering tonight are targeted at very specific behavior that appears to already be criminal under state law. I would urge you to enforce those state laws instead of making new criminal offenses. I also urge that if you do pass these ordinances to provide significant oversight to ensure that they're not being used to target the unhoused unfairly. When applying for affordable housing, applicants face background checks or even a trespassing charge. Something very small and petty in most instances can be a barrier to eligibility for that unit that would get them off the street on a path to a better life. For that reason, I urge you to take extreme caution when moving forward with these criminal offenses. Do not undermine your own progress by targeting a larger population that you're working with and working on addressing for the whole county because of only a few people. Instead, work with the service providers and the community, the Haven and the Cove and its leadership to update and implement the plan that was put in place two or three years ago. These truly address the underlying causes of homelessness and the unhoused instead of simply arresting them and giving them a place to live for a day until they get out and are back on the street in a worse position than where they were previously. The other issue I want to mention very quickly and urge extreme caution on is license plate reader cameras. They're ripe for abuse and present a serious concern for our community, our privacy, and our immigrant neighbors. Data is only owned by the city until a subpoena is issued. The only way to protect that data is to never create it in the first place. 30 seconds. Don't slide down the slippery slope. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Thank you, Mr. Offen. Our next speaker is Rodney Locks.

Good evening, Council. My name is Rodney Locks. I live in 187 South Rice Street. One of the nicest things I like about Brevard is relaxing on the bench, talking to passersby, whether they are walking or in vehicles, giving advice about where to eat, places to go, giving directions, and even waving to total strangers, all things you can't do in most cities and towns. Just so I get it right and don't pass on misses information. The way I understand it. It is. In Brevard, you can drink alcohol openly in the social district, but you need a permit outside of the district. The permit holder is solely responsible for assuring the customer is in compliance with all city and state laws pertaining to the sale and consumption of alcohol beverages. Where can I find the definition of loitering? public places, habitual loafing, Most people who I talk to are confused. I consider myself a repeat loafer because as a retiree, I have plenty of time to sit around and do nothing but talk to passerbys and congregate with friends and strangers, whether they're on public or private property or parking lots. I heard there will be no more cruising or hanging out in Brevard from midnight to 6 a.m. Is that true? I also heard there will be no more laundering in public because you can be mistaken for being a drug dealer or drug user. But I also think it's interesting you can ride an east scooter or bike on the sidewalk, but you can't assemble or collect or stand to obstruct the sidewalk on the public way. Is it true you cannot carry a concealed weapon in the city but it appears it's all right on county property like the courthouse, the library, or child development center. Finally, where can I find your city encampment policy? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Locks. Our next speaker is Doug Powell.

Good evening. The odds are likely that many in this room have had to address some form of addiction, perhaps to help a friend or family member battle that particular demon. In the process, it becomes obvious that there is no hope of saving that life from certain destruction without a firm commitment to get clean and sober. Unfortunately, in many cases, this person has to hit rock bottom before realizing that a drastic change is needed. And more often than not, this shift happens only when confronted with law enforcement and given two options, seek treatment or go to jail. Otherwise, it is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. And in turn, the community is enabling these bad habits and behaviors to continue. Living on the streets is not normal, and any community, including Brevard, should make it very uncomfortable for someone to perpetuate this lifestyle, not because we don't love our fellow man, but because we do. Without principled and steady law enforcement of behaviors that are unacceptable in any civilized society, there is no hope of, one, helping those that are lost, and two, providing the quality of life promised by civil government for those who do play by the rules. and no task force, commission, or committee will ever be effective if they are unwilling to address the real problem. In a previous life, based upon my experience in this arena, I was asked by a friend to help support his efforts to provide practical and proven solutions to his community. Part of this process was canvassing the local businesses and learning what kind of impact these out of control behaviors were having on tourism in general, and the livelihoods of business owners in particular. One desperate plea was from a general manager at a local family restaurant located along the water. Despite repeated efforts to get the city government and the sheriff's department to engage and actually enforce the law, the boardwalk was continually overrun by persons committing lewd and dangerous acts. Many in the community thought it compassionate to ignore the problem and were also lulled into a false sense of security with dozens of government cameras positioned along the boardwalk. Just a few weeks after my conversation at the restaurant, a known deranged man spent his afternoon badgering and disturbing locals and tourists alike with many lodging complaints. The sheriff's department mentioned the man I'm sorry, the Sheriff's Department monitored the man throughout the day on their many surveillance cameras, but did nothing to stop the behavior. A few hours later, that same agitated man walked into the Aloha Steakhouse in Ventura, California, and in a random act of violence, stabbed a 35-year-old father named Anthony Mele. 30 seconds. While his five-year-old daughter sat in his lap. He died the next day. The transformation of Ventura from a safe and desirable tourist destination to a dangerous one happened quickly. The city of Brevard has put a lot of eggs in the tourism basket, and it's a desirable place to live in and to visit for now, just like Ventura was. But ignoring this cautionary tale and pretending to address this issue by any other means than firm and equitable law enforcement will not end well.

Thank you, Mr. Powell. Our next speaker is James Veal.

Howdy, James Veal, 187 Pinnacle Road. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. What a great meeting, what a great bunch of subjects that has come up and it's really an example of how many different sides of the coin there are. I'd start with saying that the reason I'm here is because Brevard sucked me in. The trees, the quaintness, the smallness, the relaxness, the cleanness of the air, the things that Mr. Gannett talked about, the walking up Bracken Trail. That's why I'm here. But then I'm going to use the example of peeling back layers of the onions. there are some layers that need to be peeled back and talked about because that's the reason you're here is to fix problems. Also, don't be mistaken that I love the trail. Bracken Trail is amazing. Howie, not Howie, Todd Brannon, he's a magician. The integration of that trail with that geography stands out in the crowd. I'm well versed in Brevard, fairly well versed in Pisgah, and Bracken Trail is one for the books. It's a really, really fabulous deal. Connecting to the forest, even so. But some of you probably remember why I'm here. because there's problems, and Bracken is part of the problem, the lower 200 feet of Bracken is part of the problem. And it's interesting how you can be on how many different sides of the coin. Well, you've probably been told that the city did nothing wrong when they did the eminent domain. Well, I have a different opinion. I think there's more to the story and I beg you, I beg y'all to not believe what you've been told and to dig a little deeper, peel back some of the layers of the onion. The fact of the matter is Bracken is accessed by Pinnacle Road. Pinnacle Road used to be called Mackie Ridge Road because Jake and George Mackie settled up there with their family. next door to Isaac Bailey and they started having babies and they created this beautiful community called Pinnacle. That's why the road is now called Pinnacle. And up until the trail was built, you could drive, there's nine pieces of property up there. The city owns one now. Six of them are adversely affected by the trail because before the trail was built, you could drive cars there. You could go to the grocery store, buy groceries, go back to your property, and unload them. But since the trail got built, you can't. That's a fact. Please, I'm begging you, dig deeper, ask some questions, and... Y'all are uniquely positioned to be able to solve the problem more than anybody else. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Beale. Our next speaker is Adam Perkins.

Good evening, Adam Perkins. I reside at 1113 North Country Club Road. I also have the pleasure to serve as the president of the Heart of Brevard. This evening I'd like to speak about the proposed MSD task force. While we appreciate the city's transparency in forming a task force to evaluate the future of MSD funded services, and we respect council's responsibility under the state law to periodically review this contract, we're here tonight simply to ask that the process include the organization that knows this work the best. we'd ask that council think about putting this task force together in two distinct phases. The first phase is defining downtown's needs and what shaping the bid document itself looks like, figuring out what services downtown requires, what's worked, what hasn't, what a strong scope of work looks like going forward. This is where Brevard's voice matters most, and our preference would be for our executive director, Nicole Bentley, to be represented, given her day-to-day work administering the MSD contract. If council would prefer a different arrangement, we'd welcome consideration of another member of our executive committee. We've partnered with the city and downtown in revitalization for more than 30 years and we've administered the current MSD contract for the past four. We know this work inside and out and what it takes to deliver it well, day in and day out. Leaving that expertise out of the room doesn't protect the process, it just makes the process less informed. We recognize the question that naturally comes up. Does our role as the current service provider create a conflict of interest? We took that question seriously, which is why we didn't just assume our own answer. We raised it directly to the North Carolina Main Street program, and they confirmed directly to the city manager that our involvement in shaping the needs and scope is standard best practice and does not represent a conflict. The second phase will be reviewing and scoring the actual bid application, that's a different matter, and we agree that this calls for a bit more distance. In general, the council decides, if the council decides that the Heart of Brevard should not hold a seat directly, we respectfully ask for the ability to appoint a representative to the task force ourselves, rather than going unrepresented altogether. That could be a non-profit partner with Downtown and Economic Development Experience, such as the Transylvania County Tourism Development Authority or a significant downtown property owner or employer who has a real stake in downtown success. Either would help ensure the task force retains that on the ground perspective without having a direct role in the current contract. This isn't about second guessing the process, only about making sure it reflects best practices and includes the perspectives needed to fully evaluate downtown's future. Brevard's small, collaborative community and it's balanced representation and transparency matter here, especially in a process that could affect the future contracting decisions. We're not asking for control over the process, we're just asking to be a part of it. Heart of Brevard's job for three decades now has been to know Brevard better than anyone else in the room, so we'd just like to take our knowledge to help shape what comes next. Thank you again for your time and continued support with the Heart of Brevard and everything downtown. Thanks for letting me speak.

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. All right, and that is everybody that has signed up for public comment. All right, we are going to move on to special presentations. And we have the Cassius Valley Road Sewer Extension presentation. Mr. Manager, is that you?

I'll ask the staff to bring up the table with the funding strategy up on the screen, please. Council, this isn't really a special presentation. This is just a regular agenda item that we need to hold early in the meeting so that we can incorporate your decision into our grant application, which is due in...

at 11.59.

It's a follow-up conversation from your last meeting where you gave us permission to apply for HUD's pro-housing grant, which, if awarded, would build a 26-home project on the formerly city-owned property off Cashers Valley Road that we deeded to Housing Assistance Corporation, or HACC, last year. And unlike our other affordable projects, these would be for-sale homes. And so it would help folks in those neighborhoods buy homes and start to build that generational wealth that is at the foundation of the importance of home ownership. We're asking your permission to redirect around $88,000 of city dollars from various other sources. that you can see there on the screen, to the Water Sewer Fund to pay for the extension of utilities down Cashers Valley Road from the vicinity of the Mary C. Jenkins parking lot to the foot of the now hack-owned property next to Public Works Building. From there, the counties pledged money will extend the utilities up the hill into the property where the houses will eventually be. The locations that I'm recommending on the screen are in front of you, as you can see. Some from the water sewer cap reserve, some from Rosenwald Fund, and some from water sewer operating. This is necessary because the cost of things, as you can imagine, is higher than anticipated, and we suspect that the the totality of the county's contribution will now be needed to extend the utilities up the hill. And so we need to help out to get the utilities to the property. And so in order to make our application as competitive as it can be, we want to include this match in our application this evening and help this project stay keep its momentum if the money is awarded and so i've recommended three sources again as you can see there on the screen and i've also included for your information the remaining balance in each of those funds after this contribution is made

Okay, Mr. Manager, so you are actually looking for a vote tonight from council to adopt the funding strategy as presented.

Yes, ma'am. And then whatever funding strategy you approve, we'll bring back the official budget amendments at the next meeting. But this is just to get your permission to include this commitment in our application this evening.

Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the funding strategy as presented?

Okay. Can I ask a clarifying question on that? So the future budget amendments, could we alter the funding strategy at that point? Yes. Okay. So the motion tonight is really just the total dollar amount?

Yes, sir. Okay.

All right. With that additional information, do I have a motion to approve and adopt this funding strategy?

I will make that motion.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

We'll open it up for additional questions and comments. Mr. Baker.

Yeah, this project on Cassius Valley Road has been discussed for a while at the housing committee level. It's a great project. The home ownership, we've got several things going on in the city of Brevard right now with affordable housing, We've really hit the gas on all those efforts over the last sort of five or six years. And we've got several different things happening, you know, affordable housing that is for rent, like Fairhaven Meadows, which is being built by the roundabout and should be open by the end of the year. But this is another, goes hand in hand in that with actual home ownership. So I'm... Really glad to see this moving forward. I do have a couple questions, I guess, in regards to the original money that flowed from the county but was Dogwood Health money originally, is that correct?

Yes, sir.

And was the intent of that grant from the county's perspective to actually build the entire section from wherever it needed to go to the development?

So I'm uncertain. When we first started talking to them about that, We anticipated paying about $40,000 of our own money to extend this utility to the foot of the property. But then they pledged a little bit more than we were asking for. And so we thought that that would cover both the extension we're talking about here and the construction up into the property. But as we started getting the quotes in, we realized that that their contribution looked like it was going to be insufficient to do both. And so we're stepping in. I'm asking you to step in and cover this portion of it.

Okay. And just for the public, we discussed this again at the Housing Committee, but I remember we talked about the Housing Assistance Corporation already had a list compiled of folks that were interested in the program. Is that correct?

Last I spoke to them, they had 69 on the wait list.

Okay.

So I don't know if it was necessarily for this exact property, but for homeownership in Transylvania County.

Right and I think that's important to note that you know we're talking about 26 homes here and we already have what three almost three times that on the on the wait list and the other thing I'll note on that is that while you know fair housing practices certainly prevent you from restricting who can sign on to a wait list like that. You can't say only people that live in Brevard are allowed to be on this wait list. Housing Assistance Corporation does a great job of I guess for lack of a better word, geo-targeting where they're advertising that wait list. So they've done a lot of outreach in Rosenwald particularly already, and they've obviously had a great response from that. So I'm excited to see this move forward.

Ms. Holder.

I want to make sure that I understand this correctly. You're talking about using all three of these sources?

That's my proposal, yes, but I'm willing to consider other proposed sources from you all.

The source that I would like to see removed is the one from Rosenwald Fund 82. There was a lot of... Concern about that, people have been concerned about it. We discussed it pretty intently in our last meeting, and the purpose of leaving those funds there would be to improve the roads and sidewalks, to improve Silverstein Park, and may I say bathroom again? that we tap on other sources to get that $25,000, perhaps from the maintenance budget that you have listed beneath it, which has a pretty sizable remaining usable balance. Otherwise, I would not vote in favor of this.

Mr. Weiss.

Um, to clarify on Aaron's question, if we need to kind of look at where these funding sources are coming from, we're not making that specific decision tonight. We're more proving that we need the 88

400, is that the bottom number?

Yes, sir. That's correct. So I will say that the maintenance budget line, I think that is a large number. I am confident that money is allocated.

I do want to share with the council what that money is intended for. And that was the non-revenue water efforts that we talked about extensively during the budget process and two new trucks for our water and sewer maintenance crews. And so I might be able to fudge a little bit more from that line item, but we would be possibly putting those things at risk if we took too much from it.

Outside of that, I think this is a fantastic opportunity for our community. I mean, this is huge for home ownership for people who would never have a chance to even, especially now, consider home ownership. So it's an exciting project. That's all I have.

Mr. Daniel?

Yeah, I think this is a great, great move. Excuse me, I'm losing my voice, but I'll... I'll carry on here, but one of the things that I have observed is the lack of development from outside sources, developers in Transylvania County and our area, and bringing these folks in to do this project, to see them succeed, I would hope would give an example to others that they can succeed as well and would hopefully open some doors to see more development of affordable housing of this type in Transylvania County and Brevard. So I think it's great. Mr. Lytle?

Again, I'd echo it's a great program. The numbers that I've gotten are that there's 25 applications that were submitted from folks who are already in Rosenwald. Five of those have gone through the complete process and only one has ended up on the list in terms of being eligible. Again, I know that there are rules surrounding not being able to restrict who can take advantage. My first question is, and you may not be able to answer this now, I'll ask the city attorney, if we were to allocate dollars from a specific fund, is there any wiggle room in that to be able to allocate a certain number of homes first come from folks from that area? In other words, 25,000 from a fund, two homes need to be earmarked?

No. Okay. That would be... That would violate the 14th Amendment big time. Okay. Just like using tax dollars to benefit a certain area would be probably violated as well.

Okay. So, you know, that's one of my overall concerns apart from this is that, you know, we want to help everyone, but, you know, our – you know, our job is to help the folks in Brevard. Again, we can only do what we can do in terms of what law requires. I'll ask a question a third time to just make sure. So tonight we are not approving where these funds come from. We are approving that we are willing to approve the $88,000 only.

Correct. In two weeks, I'll bring back some options. This will be one of them. but I'll bring you back some other possibilities that you can choose from. So.

May I provide a little bit of additional context? So this specific, the sewer extension that we're talking about right now was, is to be able to serve that Castro's Valley property and was part of our development agreement with HACC to be able to develop on that property. But the larger grant application that we're using this money for is to benefit not only to have this development happen, but also to create home repair opportunities specifically within the Rosenwald neighborhood. So though that's a little bit different, I will say that this funding gives us additional bonus points for us to be able to be more competitive on that broader project. And so what we have Right now in the budget that I will hit submit on is 10 additional homes for home repair in the Rosenwald neighborhood up to $100,000. So to do environmental assessment, lead and asbestos, but also those substantial and urgent home repair needs. So though this specific housing project cannot be targeted, we do have those in the larger grant application as well.

Okay, so that, yeah, that's significant. That's great to know. I mean, we've essentially have, in a way, earmarked help to folks that are currently enrolled. And I'll approve this tonight from my end with the understanding that there needs to be a later conversation about where the funds come from. Another question I have is, is the only thing that triggered this tonight the grant application? In other words, how long did we know we needed $88,000?

The high quotes only came in within the last few weeks. So we had anticipated applying for this for quite a while, but this extra information that was at the 11th hour, that caused us to need to materially change our application.

Okay, I mean, you know, these are, $88,000 may not sound like a lot of money, but these are big decisions. And as soon as we know or as soon as we can find out, which is two different things, as soon as we can find out where our budgets are, we should verify those as soon as possible because our budgets are so thin. So I would just give that feedback. Coming in tonight, You know, it is the 11th hour. $88,000 is a lot of money, and we spent hours talking about $25,000, let alone $88,000. I would have loved to have done this a month ago. So that's just the feedback that I have.

I have a follow-up question after hearing the discussion. If this is... All right. Are we saying that this will not be where the funding will come from, or it will, and if it's not, why is it in this proposal? Help me understand that.

It may be. I'll ask you to vote in two weeks where you want the money to come from, whether it's this specific combination of funds or another option that I'll bring to you.

So why is it? I'm still trying to understand why this is here tonight.

I'm asking tonight for you all to pledge $88,000 of city money from some combination of sources. But if you want to wait two weeks to identify specifically which ones. And that's okay with us.

That would be helpful for me. And to Dean's point, we just saw this this afternoon. I got my text at 3.30, 3.20. So it's kind of hard for me to make a decision this important, this close to your needing one.

Yes, ma'am. Understood. Can I ask a question?

So when this comes back, I'll just clarify that my motion was to approve the $88,400, not where that funding would come from, with the understanding that that will come back as a budget amendment in two weeks. Can I just further clarify, that budget amendment, how will we see that in our agenda?

I'll put that on... It will not be on consent. It will be on one of the regular parts of the next agenda.

So new business? Yes. Okay.

Or maybe unfinished. Yeah. Okay. But thank you for clarifying your motion, Councilmember.

All right. There are no additional comments. I will call for a vote. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. All right. We will move on. to our consent and information. The following items are on the consent agenda. One, property tax releases of July 2026. Two, public safety committee meeting minutes June 22nd, 2026. Three, finance and human resources committee meeting minutes June 22nd, 2026. Four, finance and human resources committee meeting minutes July 14th, 2026. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. Moving on to unfinished business. Our first item is the proposed amendment to the City of Brevard Unified Development Ordinance, Chapters 9 and 19, and the Code of Ordinances, Chapter 38, Site Triangle Regulations. And Erin Bland, our Assistant Planning Director, will present.

Yes, thank you, Madam Mayor. So this is a follow-up to the public hearing you held at the July 20th meeting regarding the site triangle regulation changes that we've proposed. I'll just give a brief reminder to refresh your memory. We're looking to clarify how these appear in both the UDO and the Code of Ordinances because they don't currently match 100%. And so we will be making clear that we have two types of site triangles that are regulated, one at street intersections and then one where driveways connect to public streets. We're proposing changing the triangle for the driveway connections from 10 by 70 feet to 15 by 50 feet. And then the minimum standards for street intersections would be 25 feet on each street unless the road is 40 miles per hour or higher where it would go up to 35. And the changes there also would be based on speed. Right now it's based on right-of-way. We would be maintaining the 10 feet of clearance vertically, though, from two and a half feet above the ground to 12 and a half feet. So those are the regulations in a nutshell. I'll remind you that planning board discussed this at their May meeting and recommended it with the consistency statement you have in your packet. And we are asking for action from you tonight to either adopt, amend, or reject. And I'm happy to answer any questions that might have come up since we last discussed this.

Council, do I have a motion to adopt the amendment as written?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Okay, we'll open for questions. Mr. Wise.

No comment.

Ms. Holder. Can you come back to me? Okay. Mr. Baker.

I don't have any comments.

Mr. Daniel. No comment. Mr. Lytle.

I just wanted to be clear. I know we asked last time, but I just want to be clear about what happens with a property that's non-conforming. You know, what is that exact process if they aren't able to conform to the new

So this is a, like I said, we're amending the UDO, and so that's development regulations that would come up during permitting. Okay. So that's only when those permits are pulled. The code of ordinances is a nuisance ordinance, and so that is something that would be a complaint-based enforcement procedure. So we would have to wait until someone complains about something that has grown in, and then the police would proceed accordingly with that. So this just kind of to make, right now the dimensions are different in the two different spaces. and we're just trying to make them match so there's not conflicting.

No other questions.

Ms. Holder? No comment. All right. I'll call for a vote. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes.

Thank you.

All right. Moving on to our second item of unfinished business. Proposed amendments to the City of Brevard Unified Development Ordinance, Chapters 6, 17, and 19, and the Code of Ordinances, Chapter 38, Stormwater Management Development Regulations. And I believe Emily is going to present. Yes.

Effective stormwater management is essential for mitigating the environmental impacts of development in sensitive terrain. This is a staff initiated text amendment to improve the stormwater management requirements to be more equitable, effective, and easier to administer. staff worked closely with mcadams which is the firm conducting the stormwater master plan over the last few months to understand the complexities of stormwater management in western north carolina review best practices in other communities and address the shortcomings in our current ordinance we also reviewed this ordinance with planning board on their at their may meeting who recommended in favor of its adoption um i won't go through all of the details but they are in your packet But one of the largest discussion points, I just wanted to call to your attention again, was the 20,000 square foot built upon area threshold. This is something that we discussed at length with planning board. And then we talked about again here during the public hearing. This is intended to be a threshold for when development needs to comply with our stormwater management, and it represents a significant amount of development that is much larger than a typical single family residence. So we're looking to have something that's a little bit more fair that becomes the trigger point. For example, A typical Walgreens store alone is approximately 15,000 square feet. That does not include any of the pavement, parking lot, anything like that. Our current Food Lion is 34,000 square feet, just the building. So just to put in perspective a little bit more why we're doing this. This is consistent with many elements of our comprehensive plan, but also the newly adopted green growth audit addendum. And that's partially why we were able to do such a holistic rewrite and review of this entire section. And then U City Council identified stormwater management as an organizational priority back in fiscal year 25. So this is kind of pulling on a lot of other elements and trying to loop in the private sector and private development into the larger discussion about stormwater management across our jurisdiction. So we're requesting that you take one of the following actions tonight. Adopt the amendments as written. Adopt the amendments as revised by you. Reject the amendments or table it for further consideration. And planning board submits a statement analyzing the consistency and reasonableness of this proposal that is also in your packet.

Thank you. Council, do I have a motion to adopt the amendment?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

second yeah I'll just say what I said last time and say that I appreciate the the focus on on equity here and not punishing certain developments just because they might have the word multi multifamily in them and focusing instead on the actual footprint of the of the development itself and how much stormwater they would actually create. Just one question, I know that as a part of the state law that has passed, the same law that got rid of parking minimums statewide, there were some stormwater provisions in that. Does any of this overlap?

There were, it does not affect this at all.

Okay, okay. Then I'll just say I'm looking forward to seeing the full stormwater plan. And as I've said before, particularly the recommendations on how we structure the fees to be sure that they are as equitable as our rules are. So that's all.

Mr. Weidel.

Once implemented, is there a plan for like an appeal process, hardship? No appeal process for anyone? For stormwater?

Yeah. Well, no, not for the development regulations themselves. So these would not be... retroactive it applies to all new development that's occurring um and so we would anytime somebody comes in with an application um our our thresholds are if you disturb more than an acre of land if you cumulatively add 20 000 square feet or more of built upon area if you're a property that's subject to steep slope or if it's um a condition set by the board of adjustment or city council so it's really looking at all new development that's occurring good enough thanks Mr. Daniel?

No comment.

Ms. Holder?

No comment.

Mr. Weiss?

I'll just say that one thing that's really nice about this is it's pretty proactive, and it kind of rethinks about strategies moving forward that, you know, in the past we've historically kind of used an outdated way of dealing with stormwater, so this is actually a nice ordinance to grow into in the future.

All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. All right, our third item of unfinished business is the proposed amendments to the City of Brevard Code of Ordinances, Chapter 42, Loitering, Trespassing, Public Intoxication, and Hours of Operation.

and city manager yes ma'am mayor and council just a reminder this action would reattach misdemeanor penalties to certain offenses in our code of ordinances that up until now have been civil penalties this is in response to an observed uptick in these offenses and some feedback from constituents that our civil tools weren't effective at deterring these behaviors which have quality of life implications for our residents and visitors At our last meeting, you asked us to bring back some data, so we have, but I want to clarify what exactly we're going to show. There was a newspaper article that implied we were going to be bringing some data back on homelessness in general, but that's not how we understood the direction. We understood it to be the number of these kinds of behaviors that we observe in the field, and then the kind of interactions that our police have with presumed unhoused people. And so that's the data that we are bringing back today. You also ask us and we're bringing back a comparison between local ordinances and state law and where one might give us a tool that the other doesn't. And so I'm going to throw it over to Chief Wenzel and Deputy Chief Bonanno and let them give you a presentation that includes this follow-up information.

Thank you.

It should be on the computer there. Yeah, your PowerPoint there. Go to your PowerPoint there, Christy.

There we go. I got to be smarter than the PowerPoint. Nope. One more. PowerPoint. There we go. We'll start from the beginning. OK. As the city manager said, we've brought back kind of a breakdown of the proposed changes to the Chapter 42 of the Code of Ordinance. In the last two weeks I've received a couple questions, some from counsel as well as some conversations or emails from those in the public. And so I wanted to kind of take a step back and tell you where this first originated from. In 2001 they passed the Criminal Justice Reform Act. It was enacted by the North Carolina General Assembly as part of a broader criminal justice reform package. That package included related to law enforcement training, certification, body-worn cameras, accountability measures for officers, and then local ordinance enforcement. Basically, what this reform act did was it changed the default penalty for most local ordinance violations from a criminal offense to a civil or administrative violation unless the municipality affirmatively restored criminal enforcement. The purpose behind this reform act in that regard was to encourage local governments to carefully evaluate which ordinances truly require criminal enforcement and was also designed to reduce unnecessary criminalization of minor local ordinance violations while preserving local authority when needed. As you look at state law, what gives us the authority as a municipality to create a misdemeanor violation is North Carolina General Statute 14-4. violation of local ordinances to misdemeanors. And the law states, except as provided, if any person violates an ordinance of a city or town, he or she shall be guilty of a class three misdemeanor and maybe fined up to $500 provided the ordinance expressly states the penalty. So as we go through the PowerPoint today and we look at what we are asking of you, Mayor and Council, one is to amend the ordinances, two, to expressly adopt the language in North Carolina General Statute 14-4, and then designate the violation as a class three misdemeanor. Just so you know, as far as criminal justice purposes are concerned, class three is the least, it's the lowest level of non felony charges that you can have in the state. So the ordinances that we are looking at for the city is 40-23, consumption or possession of alcoholic beverages in a public place. 42-5, trespass on posted property, loitering generally. 42-6, loitering for the purpose of engaging in drug-related activity. 42-14, carrying concealed weapon on or near city property. And then 40-17, designating hours of operation for the city. As we look, and this is kind of small print and I apologize for that, the UNC School of Government advises that it's best when we can, if we do make an arrest or make a charge, is to do it under state law or general statute. That's generally better for prosecutorial purposes. There are certain laws in the state or lack thereof that ordinances would be more appropriate if we had criminal penalties attached to those ordinances. So for instance, for trespassing, there is a state statute. Anytime that we deal with trespassing in the city or we make an arrest, we charge under statute. State law covers unlawful entry or remaining after notice. While local ordinance would be helpful, it will allow the city to establish and enforce operating hours for parks in all city properties. As we look at loitering or panhandling, the state law is limited and peaceful solicitation is generally protected. In terms of loitering, the law allows us to charge people for loitering if they are standing on main traveled roadways, shoulders, medians of any state highway or street that interferes with traffic. So where the ordinance will help us is we can address specific behaviors such as blocking sidewalks, threats, unwanted touching, or aggressive conduct by individuals that, for lack of better terms, may be loitering or have not been trespassed from various properties. We look at intoxicated and disruptive. This is also a North Carolina statute that addresses intoxication combined with disruptive behavior. The local ordinance may not be needed because the state statute can fully apply and we can usually articulate under that statute. As we look at open containers, state law mainly addresses open containers in a vehicle. This will allow the city to regulate alcohol and park sidewalk streets and other public spaces outside of the social district as well as able to enforce laws within the social district that we require. to have said district. And then finally, concealed weapons on city properties. I did receive a call from the sheriff and some other concerned constituents where they felt that we were fully limiting individuals' rights to carry within the city. Quickly explain that that was not the intent of this. This was basically no weapons allowed posted on city properties. So state law regulates concealed weapon in certain prohibited locations. The ordinance will allow the city within state law to identify and properly post specific city facilities where weapons will be prohibited. So that's kind of the difference between where we have the state laws and where the ordinances would also be helpful for us as law enforcement. So as we were looking for the last two weeks to get the data that you requested at the last council meeting, I will admit 100% there was data collection challenges that largely comes with how we document and what we have is called computer dispatch or CAD. And that is on the part of both the officers as well as dispatchers, what information gets logged or stored in CAD. There was inconsistent documentation, which affected the accuracy of statistics and a trend analysis. Some of the common issues included names entered with different spellings or aliases, getting out with subjects that were not notated or documented in CAD. Radio traffic not being fully logged by dispatch, where officers felt dispatch was logging the information. It wasn't, and so neither dispatchers nor officers logged certain information. And then officers not documenting contacts or adding case notes. So the documentation inconsistencies made it somewhat difficult to accurately identify repeat contacts and quantify resource.

So what we did... We took one month at a time. So it was a pretty big lift.

We went through all of the calls for service in our CAD from July 1st to July 31st. And of those, we separated out the specific calls for service that would relate directly to the ordinance changes that we are asking for. as it related to trespassing, loitering, intoxicated or disruptive persons. We also looked at welfare checks. We get a lot of calls that come in as a welfare check. They feel there's somebody passed out on the sidewalk. Can we get a welfare check on them? We don't know if it's medically induced or it's possibly impairment from drugs or alcohol. And so we looked at all of those for the month of July and we found a total of 182 general calls for service involving interactions with law enforcement that these Ordinances and or state law would apply of that we dove into line by line 182 calls and we were able to determine that 88 of the 182 calls for service or 48% involved a member of our own house population And so we're looking at over 48% of those calls were solely on our resources were being utilized for a very small segment of our population. And when it came to clearance rate, and as we've stated before with regard to these changes, this is not done to criminalize a certain segment of the population, or to even look at behaviors. If you look at our clearance rate, 91% of those calls were cleared by verbal warnings, social referrals, referrals for service, or no action needed. The officers made contact, they checked on them, everything was okay, and they went back into service. 9% of those calls actually resulted in the physical arrest of a member of the unhoused population going to being arrested and taken to jail. And those were typically for trespassing, where they've already previously received a trespass warning, intoxicated and disruptive behavior, or other violations. Those other violations also included stuff such as drug possession, larceny, where we're able to attribute it to a theft, and fraud-type offenses.

Looking at the numbers, again, we haven't had time to do that type of analysis.

deep dive or heavy lift into all eight other months. But I pulled the similar type of offenses to see if there's a general trend. So in July we logged 182 general calls. June we logged 153. May we had logged 188. And in April we had logged 125. So as you see, they're kind of ebbs and flows. But those are the amount of calls for service that we responded to related directly to the issue at hand. Moving forward, if this were to be approved and passed tonight, obviously the biggest thing that we are looking at from an administrative level is our data collection improvements. First and foremost, we've already met with Mr. Sexton, who is the OCD director. for our communications and we have developed new CAD clearance codes that will allow us to quickly identify whether these type of calls concern our unhoused population. And I will have it known before we clear a call with an unhoused population clearance code that is vetted by the officer to confirm that the individual they are speaking with is part of our unhoused community. And that's going to be doing done through personal contact and then also an investigative measures to vet to make sure that nobody is being clearly or inaccurately labeled in our CAD system. Officers have been directed to log all individuals contacted in CAD, not to rely on dispatchers to do that. to ensure that we have an accurate picture of who we are interacting with. We have reinforced documentation expectations with our patrol staff and we are working with Mr. Sexton to work with our dispatchers. In the next coming weeks, we are developing a daily watch commander report where our squad commanders will provide a report nightly that talks about detailed shift activities and the calls for service so we have a bigger picture when we come in the next day and then that way a future reporting will be more accurate and provide counsel with a cleaner picture of what our police resources are being devoted to and how they affect quality of life issues. Any questions?

Thank you, Chief. all right i think we'll open this up for questions and discussion before i ask for a motion and we will start with Mr. Daniel.

I have a couple of questions. I understand your report very well. Thank you for that. I have some knowledge of some of the situations that you have encountered. I did mention at the last discussion that the Some of the city on properties are not listed here and I see they're still not listed here My only concern is not is that? The reassurance that our officers know what properties Are being affected.

Yes, sir. We're working on compiling that list. I don't know offhand which Properties that we have the ties to and so that's something that we are generating to have and is obviously very useful for our officers to know.

Well, I think so, too. I think that's important. The other thing that I noticed is that, and it's also something I didn't mention before, but our bike paths. the greenways are not on this list. And also they're exempt from the firearms part of this ordinance. And I was curious about that.

So we have actually upped in this, within this last two weeks, we have gotten our bikes out there and are actively on the bike paths. And you should be seeing more of us around the city on the bike, the bikes there. We had several officers include sergeant green last week myself sergeant jordan um and we're out doing that because we've also had we've seen a large amount of camping on some of the bike paths and so that's also um a catalyst for that and as we look at getting officers and um so we're actively trying to work it from that route but In terms of the concealed carry or the weapons, I would say that we have had zero calls for service regarding questions, concerns with somebody open carry, concealed carrying, somebody calling to complain that they have a firearm where it's posted no firearm on there. So we have had very, almost zero interaction with that charge.

Well, I mean, that's not really my question. That is actually exempt.

from out on the trails? Yes, sir. So we wouldn't obviously enforce it on the trails. It would be where it's specifically posted and the city would have to post where the firearms are prohibited on property.

That answers my question.

Yes, sir. Sorry about that. Mr. Lytle?

Can you go back to the slide with the percentages?

Yes, sir.

Yes. And so I believe it's, yeah, at the bottom, 9% of calls for service resulted in arrest for trespassing, intoxication. So I think you alluded to the fact that state law, in essence, gives you what you need to be able to enforce this area in terms of public intoxication.

Yes, sir.

And the same for trespassing, okay. My second question is, how will you distinguish between someone loitering and visiting or assembling? How does an officer distinguish the two?

So that is going to be based on the investigative case by case incident. So it's the officer determining how long they've been there, what their purpose in being there was, who the complainant is. Usually the ones that are loitering are not the ones calling us. So we get a lot of information that will come from the complainant. So it's going to determine what the information is up front prior to our response, what they're able to gather from parties on scene, and then they'll make the determination whether it meets the threshold for loitering. And it could be something to where if they're hanging out and the individual says, I don't want them in front of my storefront or I don't want them on my property, they've been here for X amount of times, then that's when we would initiate the trespass letter warning and let them know and go that route.

And I just want to be clear, you know, when you say in front of the storefront, you mean on public sidewalk in front of storefront?

If the store owner calls, so usually I would say inside the buildings from there, but if they're just hanging out, it depends on are they violating? What are they doing? Is it disruptive? Are they impaired? It's going to depend on the individual call for service as to how we would handle it.

And that's the one thing that I want to make sure that we're clear on, and even if we can have a written policy on that, because that's the area that I see can be left up to interpretation. Okay. And so maybe if there's a dual, if there's like a criteria. Yeah, they're hanging out and they're doing this.

And our ordinance has some pretty clear criteria in it. Are they blocking the sidewalk? Are they prohibiting or preventing people from being able to enter buildings? So we kind of lay it out pretty good in our ordinance as is. And then looking at state law, you know, they have certain ones when it comes to the roadway by forcing yourself or costing another. So are they... aggressively panhandling, are they aggressively approaching individuals, within 20 feet of a financial institution or ATM, with an outdoor dining area just to solicit from anyone seated or working at the outdoor dining, within eight feet of a transit stop or bus station, soliciting someone who is standing in line to enter a business. So state law gives some guidelines in terms of that as it would apply to loitering near the streets and roadways, but our policy itself or our ordinance lists it out pretty well also. And it's mainly not aggressively soliciting money or any other services, not being disruptive, not being intoxicated, and not preventing somebody from being able to enter a local business.

And so I wanted to say great for having the collection improvements. First thing that drove me crazy when you started off. and then the use of the bikes. What I would say lastly is I think it's very important that there's reporting. I'd like to see quarterly reporting if this were to pass, and also an annual review with a lot of detail. Again, some of the detail that you gave tonight, but over the course of each month, and that'll also, it would seem, That's that extra incentive to make sure that the data collection has to be right in order for you to do that, otherwise that's a nightmare.

Oh, yes, sir, 100%. And I'm in full agreement with the quarterly review as well as the annual review. And as we look to become accredited with North Carolina, that will be one of the requirements to meet accreditation is there's a substantial number of annual reports we will have to submit that are detailed in documenting our efforts. But the quarterly reports, this is kind of... As we approach different issues and concerns, the kind of stuff comes out of the woodwork, we're like, oh, okay, well, that's not being done well, or that's not being done to the expectation and standard that we have, and so we're putting everything that we can in place to rectify that, and it is, I mean, there's a learning curve. I'm sure there'll be some challenges, but absolutely 100% with the documentation, yes, sir.

And sorry, one more thing, you know, and lastly, both for public and myself, just to be very, very clear, with the change of the code, what is it, can you articulate what is it that this will allow you to do that you're not allowed to do today that would help Right, that would help officers.

So it gives officers, first and foremost, a little more clarity. One of the biggest things is the operating hours. We're looking at 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. or what hours the city has. So they have a clear delineation as to what and when certain things can be enforced. Also, if you look at clarifying stuff with loitering, it gives them just a little more clarity. Legal backing to make decisions should all other efforts fail first. Obviously by looking at our stats, 9% of these resulted in arrest. We're not out here to do this to overly harass or to lock things up. This is designed to once we ask you, we try to convince you, we try to refer you to services, get help. If you continue to violate and not abide by a lawful request, this will give them the opportunity to make an arrest, but to also make an arrest at the lowest level of charge that we can with an individual. It's a class three misdemeanor.

And are the warnings written?

So usually it depends if the trespass warnings, they are written. The other verbal warnings is usually OCD log that we gave them a verbal warning. It's a clearance code, so they'll come out and say it's verbal. Very rarely do we do written warnings because that would be like a traffic citation, which... ultimately would probably just end up in a littering charge. Mr. Wise?

I'm going to start with my dumbest question first. Can you just tell me what CAD stands for?

Yes, sir. It's Computer Aided Dispatch. So anytime you call 911, they're logging it in the system, and that's what comes to our officers in their cars. So they're able to read CAD notes as the dispatcher takes calls for service.

So thank you for the presentation. I talked to you earlier today because this can get confusing. I'm still very confused about the state and how they view law enforcement, but that's not our problem here, or we're trying to solve that problem. A couple things. One, for intoxication, I've heard a lot about the social district and why people are allowed to drink in the social district. That's a straw man argument. There are really strict rules around the social district and how you're allowed to consume alcohol, what you have to do, and so I think that is a, it's really a straw man. These are two completely different things. Two, 48% of our calls were attributed to unhoused. That's a shocking number. That means 52, though, percent were not attributed to at least not known unhoused. So I don't like framing this as a conversation about the unhoused. This is a problem that's happening with our entire community. As a matter of fact, from these numbers, potentially more housed, I guess, people are committing these crimes than unhoused. To me, this is a way to help law enforcement get to an end job to protect the community as a whole. And I've just been hesitant to just frame it as an unhoused issue. I want to make that clear for me as well because it's easy to fall into that kind of thinking because that has been very prevalent in our mindset recently. But even the data shows that this is not a problem exclusively to that small group of people. And then I had one other question I thought, maybe I don't. I don't have any other questions, that's all I got.

Mrs. Mayor, I apologize, I have a follow-up just based on what he said before. Just one question, do you know

individuals like you know that there's calls how many individuals does that represent how many individuals is the nine percent do we know that so the 91 and nine percent is total right for all 182 calls so um but i will tell you that we have currently on that list as far as the 88 calls for service we have 15 known individuals that are on the house that right related to that 88 calls for service.

But do we know, like, of all the calls, how many people, you know, how many people repeat calls? Like, if there's 182 calls for service, is there 15 people that we're having to go out 182 times for?

I would have to go back and do a deeper dive into that data. But we do have some repeat offenders that... I guarantee you the majority of my officers can say it's this person, this person, this person, and that's who we routinely see.

Great. Thank you. Sorry about that.

Ms. Holder?

Thank you. So I think that once, and to his point in having more frequent reports, since they are kind of just starting, that would help to find out what the outcomes are. And I would like to see what that looks like. Are the repeaters being less frequent? And are the numbers going down? And what do we have to offer them if it is a problem that's beyond what law enforcement can do, where maybe it's a problem that they need other resources? And so do we have those to offer

So we are working, the police department's working with the Bread of Life, the Haven, as well as the Sharing House. Those are our primary resources that when we have interactions that we make referrals to. In speaking with Emily Lowery, learned that there's also chances for mobile crisis that comes through. And they're able to do things that we can't do at the police department. Help individuals that may not be able to get their medicines or prescriptions. and so really trying to figure out what that schedule is. So we are trying to work collaboratively with them, but we're limited to what we have here. We have also looked out at larger resources, the rescue mission in Asheville and other areas like that to see if there's ways that we can maybe help some of our population and get resources that we don't necessarily have here in the city also.

What about persons in that larger percentage, the 52%? What can we offer them as well so that you don't have to keep, if they're repeaters, having to go back? And we're speaking of the house population as well.

It's very similar to what we offer on housed. The Bread of Life does a lot with their food meals and prep to help those families, and same with the sharing house.

Okay. Can you compare social district consumption with otherwise consumption? So a person is not in the social district but they're consuming or they're in the social district and they can consume.

The majority of the calls, we see issues typically within the social district when we have our festivals. That's really the only time that we have any kind of alcohol concerns within the social district and how it's being operated. What we see is open containers, and usually that's not until we have had interactions for intoxication or disruptive behaviors. that we determine they have the open sources of alcohol that then become a second violation. And usually that's one where it's kind of like we tell them, pour it out and throw it out, and we don't look at charging that. We're looking more at the behaviors as opposed to violating an open container law. But I can tell you that looking at July, there's been no social district violations. All of it is usually brown bagging and open container and drinking in the district and not following the social district rules as far as for assumption.

You were wise for asking a dumb question. I'm going to follow suit. I came on, I was wondering about that. So I came on council, I think right after social districting had been passed. I don't understand what the, What does that mean? So they cannot carry an open container in that district. Is that correct?

Yes, ma'am.

I'm sorry. Chief, will you help me?

For the social district and...

excuse me let's let's have miss holders question answered this mayor I'd like to just say say one thing please thank you let's make sure that that us up here as a council we like to address just staff at the appropriate time yeah thank you yeah chief I'll be glad to

The social district is a set of rules that allow, within a certain district, people can carry alcohol, but only if they've purchased it at certain places under certain regulations. And any alcohol purchased is under – there's basically a sticker on a cup, and it has to be – purchase that it says where it's from when it was purchased and therefore that place that sold it taking responsibility for it and for serving it and within that district so if anyone is consuming alcohol within the social district and it's not in that designated container then it would be a violation of the social district rule it's not just open drink whatever you want, wherever you can get it within the social district. It's very regulated within those terms. And that can be at any of the participating businesses within those rules. Is that answer your question? It is.

So that says to me that someone who purchased a drink, I don't even know who sells alcohol down here, but I'm trying to think of a restaurant. Square root. Square root. If I purchase or one of my members purchase something that's square root, they could drink. Fresno Company excluded. But if someone purchased a drink at Square Root, then they can have the open container and drink it within a certain amount of blocks?

Yes, within the designated area downtown, provided it was within the container. Same container. That they were given from the Square Root. And I don't even know if the Square Root's participating. but if they were, because not every place that serves is a participating organization. Got you. That brings clarity. In the social district.

Okay. Thank you. So panhandling, I know this is begging. What is it called when people are selling stuff on the street? Is that allowed? I'm hoping you're saying no.

I'm assuming that's the city ordinance that does not allow. That's almost a vendor permit.

I've seen that, and so maybe we can talk about it later.

Okay.

Yes, ma'am. And I've seen at the church we have a sign up that says no concealed weapons. Okay. from a legal standpoint in either of you is that kid, can that be enforced?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. The state law allows any private property owner to prohibit or business owner to prohibit concealed weapons. This just takes, this just allows the city to declare any city property to prohibit concealed weapons on those city property under the terms in the, uh, They're not the city as a whole, which I don't know how anybody got that out of it, but apparently somebody did and called the sheriff about it, but that is not what it is. It is just the city properties, not even just the ones listed. Any city property, it is prohibited to have a concealed weapon, just like any other private business or the church or anybody else can't have a concealed weapon, even if you have a permit.

So walking up and down the sidewalk, is that?

Yes, you can have a concealed weapon walking up and down the sidewalk.

But you can't go into a building?

Not into a city building. Okay. Or into a business where there is a, you can't bring a concealed weapon in here.

Right. Or the park.

Or the park. Okay.

Okay.

That's one reason it's. it's allowed to have concealed weapons on the greenways is because it's more like a street or a sidewalk than a commercial business like a building. That's the differentiation. The reason it's different in our ordinance, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I would like to, I appreciate what you've done to correct the data that we don't have so far. And I'm anxious to see the data in the next maybe a couple months, see how it looks from a clear picture. And I'm also glad that, I mean, 182 calls is to me a lot for this size city, but it could be worse. So I'm glad about that too. And thank you all for what you all do and putting your lives out there.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Mr. Baker.

Yeah. First, just let me say, I think this might be a reoccurring theme as we deal with some other issues that are coming up, but that is that you can't have public safety without the trust of the public. And as Dean said, transparency and oversight um i think are critical so thank you for digging into those data issues and um you know i also want to say those quarterly reports that i suggested we implement at the last meeting at the committee level the public safety committee that is open to the public anybody can come to that that was not I brought it up because we were discussing this, but that was a more general comment to say really across the board. All of our public safety data, I feel like we should be receiving in some form on a regular basis so that we can track the trends, but also have oversight. And so not just for issues that may deal with the unhoused folks, but really across the board. And I think that's just a best practice that, as you said, with the accreditation, we're going to have to do that anyway.

That is part of our strategic plan for the police department, is to have not only forward-facing policies, but also a public dashboard, basically a crime map, that you're able to log in and see where hot spots are, everything else in that nature. As we look at restructuring also, additional roles and responsibilities that may fall to our records or administrative services manager will be that of a crime analyst to where they're able to pull that data and somebody that's good with numbers. I'm just a police, I'm not a math person. So find somebody that is good with the numbers that can accurately pull that data and then put it on a public-facing dashboard.

Okay, and then I have a more specific question for our attorney on, let me find it here, 42-5. And section C, we're gonna get real in the weeds on some legal stuff here. So the first, everything before the comma, that which is it shall be unlawful for any person to habitually loaf or loiter on the streets do you want no I'm not going to do you understand the rest of that sentence to read in such a way as to obstruct is that second clause there does that apply to the first

No, they are they are in the way that I perceive that because of the comma is that those are two separate and independent clauses. Okay, one is habitually low for loiter. The other is to congregate in such a way as to obstruct or interfere with the free passage into or out of any public business or private property. So the interpretation would be well, for instance, there been recently, within the last couple of years, large protests in Brevard. But the organization group that has done them has been exceptionally careful in making sure that the sidewalks remain, well, some of them, there's been one where that wasn't done, but the rest of them have been very good at maintaining that the sidewalks remained open for passage and did not block businesses. And the reason for that is because they coordinated in reading this ordinance and made sure that they did not block or obstruct the free passage into or out of private business or private property in order to comply with that ordinance. I mean, this ordinance has been on the books for a long time. The only change that is being asked to be made is the penalty component of it.

Yeah, and I understand that. I think just increasing the penalty or creating a penalty in my mind you know increases the scrutiny on the language or should and so I think all along and I'm sorry because we've talked about this at the committee level and now we're getting into the weeds on it here but I all along I've been uncomfortable with the habitually loaf or loiter on the streets because of what you just said don't ask me to define that and that is opens us up and our officers up for potential liability.

It does put a lot of discretion in the hands of our officers and while I trust them to do their job, that does give them a bit of liability. I won't lie.

And the reason I asked my original question about whether that second clause applies, because the second clause clarifies to obstruct or interfere with the free passage into or out of any public business or private property. That is either a yes or a no. You're either obstructing or you're not obstructing. but it's much more clear, habitually low for loiter. I don't, I can't. So if that second clause was, you know, applied to the first, I would be more comfortable with it. Or, and I, the other thing we could do is just strike that the first part altogether.

That is a political decision that you're more than free to make.

Okay. Well, maybe we'll, We'll get to that point when we have a motion. There's no motion. Whether the mayor is ready for a motion or not.

I'd like to make a comment. Excuse me.

Yeah, I'm finished with my comment for now.

I'm just going to verify that you're finished. Yes, thank you. Any additional questions?

I would just like to address something that Mr. Wise said, which I happen to agree with. And I think Mr. Austin from the barbershop put it well a couple meetings ago, that calling this a homeless problem does a disservice to the homeless. This is people who are being disruptive and committing criminal behavior, and that's all it is. It has nothing to do with whether they're homeless or not. And I think that's been confused. I think there's some feeling that we are looking to deal with homelessness in this way. That's not what we're doing. We're dealing with disruptive or criminal behavior. And that's all. Thank you.

Any other additional questions or comments before I call for a motion?

May I just make, may I make one statement? There was a question asked about panhandling. I'll just, uh, just, I wanted to clear answer that that's covered in chapter 46 of our ordinance, um, which is not being touched. It's already addressed, um, begging in public places, which already is, has, if a violation can be punished up to as a, as a misdemeanor, uh, are with a fine up to $500. Um, which is kind of odd considering if you're begging, you probably don't have $500. But anyway, it is a violation punishable as a misdemeanor. But that is a separate section of the statute, and there is a North Carolina general statute which also covers it as well. So that's covered in a separate section. Panhandling and soliciting is covered in that same section.

Soliciting as well?

That is as well, yes. Okay. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Okay, thank you. All right, Council, do I have a motion concerning the proposed amendment?

I've got one more question and then I will have a motion.

All right.

Go ahead, Mr. Baker. Sorry, 42-5, Section C, the word congregate, does that have to be more than one person?

Yes, by definition.

Okay.

I have a, I think I have a follow-up question to that. So close. I'm sorry. So congregate, and I think you kind of addressed it. Does that include protest? Or do they have to have a permit to protest? How does that work?

It would include congregating. It would include any grouping together of people that blocks sidewalks.

Okay.

There are no provisions in our ordinance which allow for closing off streets except by vote of the city council. So I'm not going to address anything that related to the reasoning behind those gatherings because that would be inappropriately crossing into the First Amendment grounds. So you're not going to get an answer from me. I see. But it would be a gathering together of people for any reason that blocks a street unless authorized by council. Yes, sir.

Okay, I'm going to read something to you and you tell me what you think it means. It shall be unlawful to loiter or congregate on the streets or sidewalks of the city in such a way as to obstruct or interfere with the free passage into or out of any public business or private property.

What does that mean?

Would loiter be one person and congregate could be multiple? But the second clause applies as if you can't block the free passage.

What do you think, Chief? I mean, you're the cop on the beat.

If it's one person and they are intentionally obstructing or preventing somebody to pass, I would charge them loitering. If it's two or more, that's where you, in my professional opinion, it becomes a congregation or congregating and preventing that flow. And, again, it's for the purpose of obstructing or preventing somebody.

Right. That's what I'm trying to get at is that the loitering is not just loitering.

That might be a fair enough amendment if that's what you're grasping for. And that is what I'm desperately grasping for. That might be a fair amendment that would be more enforceable and give a little bit more direction to our law enforcement officers to appropriately enforce this ordinance as you desire it to be enforced.

So if you're done, if they're lying on a bench, go ahead and just hold it.

Sorry.

If they're lying on the bench, is that Lord watering or if they know that's sitting sleeping and what are the reasons not obstructing? Okay, so there are no repercussions.

We will usually get a call. We'll come out and do a welfare check and make sure one that they're okay and provide them resources elsewhere if they're sleeping on the bench from there. But we don't address that as loitering or unless they're sleeping on the city benches that we own and they've been criminally trespassed from any type of city property, we would enforce it that way. But usually it's to check on them, see if there's somewhere else that they can possibly go to get help or find a bed. And that's the route our officers will take.

And if it's full, they can stay there if they're not obstructing or being?

If they're not being disruptive. Disruptive? Yes, ma'am.

Okay. I'm done.

Okay.

All right. All right, council. Do I have a motion regarding this proposed amendment?

I'll make a motion that we approve the amendment as presented with the change of just section 42-5, removing in the title loitering generally and then amending section C to read it shall be unlawful to loiter or to congregate on the streets or sidewalks of the city in such a way as to obstruct or interfere with the free passage into or out of any public business or private property.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Baker. Do I have a second? Second. All right. All in favor? Do we want to have more discussion?

I have actually some more discussion.

I'm sorry. Mr. Baker, you.

I know, but now we have something to talk about.

All right, Mr. Baker.

I just want to make just some more general comments and talk to the public about why I think this is so difficult and why we spent so much time on it. And that is that over the last 10 years or so, but really before that, we've all kind of witnessed in this country – this new sort of political project that recognizes and tries to make legitimate cruelty as a policy. And knowing everybody that's up here on the dais, I know that we are all incredibly sensitive to that and I personally reject that as a policy. Cruelty is not a policy and is not, certainly not a policy that I want anything to do with. Nobody, as other people have said, nobody should be targeted for arrest because they do not have a home. And Also, seeing an unhoused person and being uncomfortable does not mean that you're a witness to a crime. And that background makes all of this incredibly difficult. And it does mean that we weigh every word very carefully. And because we've talked so much about the unhoused population, I just want to state that We have a health care crisis in this country, but an important corollary to that is that we have a behavioral and mental health crisis. And we do not have the resources as a city to tackle that issue. It does not mean that we... aren't working hard to deal with it and desperate for help. But we cannot do it alone. And we've been working with many of the nonprofit partners in our community. But the state and federal government have to step up, not just for health care, but more specifically for mental health services, which are desperately needed, especially in rural places like Brevard. And finally, safe housing for everybody has to be the goal for the city and I think for our entire country. That's it.

Thank you, Mr. Baker. Does anyone else have any additional comments? Mr. Lytle? Mr. Daniel? Ms. Holder?

I ditto what he said, and I think that the important thing for all of us to realize is that getting rid of the stigmatism, and your report does that. And so, as he said, it's not just a one community problem. It is our community, and I think I said that the last time. It is our community problem. Thank you.

Mr. Wise?

No comment.

All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries. All right, we will take a five-minute break and then come back for new business.

All right, are we back on Becky? Yes. Okay. And everybody is back.

All right, we will move on to our first item of new business.

We have removed the MSD proposal, and so our first business is the letter of interest to the county regarding the old courthouse. And I will give council just a little background about this request. As we all know, the county is in the process of building the new courthouse. We expect them to actually start construction starting this fall with about a two year time frame to build the new courthouse out on Morris Road. They have recently really started looking and talking about what they plan to do with the old courthouse. The courthouse is the most iconic building in the county. It is the symbol of Transylvania. It is a big symbol of Brevard and it has for the last 150 some years really symbolized the civic life of the county and so one of the things as we looked at you know what is the best use of that building that historic building the people's building and It also sort of coincided with the fact that we need to do something about a new city hall. Our city hall dates back to 1970, the original building. As you all know, we had to move the police department out about a year ago, simply because the basement has so much water problems that it's not inhabitable right now. So we either have to find a new place to have a city hall, or build a new city hall or do a drastic renovation of our current city hall and this is coming again in the next few years we are getting to the point where we are unable to house all of our staff here our police department is in a leased location that in a few years will be up for renewal And so one of the things I would like council to think about is, you know, why don't we take a look at the historic courthouse? And the letter to the county is precisely that. It is to simply state our intention that we would like to collaborate with them and look and see if it really is feasible to have City Hall in the old courthouse. We don't know the feasibility of that. We don't really know the cost of that. We need to actually have appraisers go out, look at the building, see what it would take to modify it to our needs, get a really good cost estimate on upgrades and repairs, The county did just come out with their analysis that says there's about 2.3 million in maintenance that's needed for the building. So what has come up, and when I discussed this with the county, I think Mayor Pro Tem, myself, city manager we have brought it up at our monthly meetings with the county in an informal fashion and they said what we really would like is a formal uh proposal that you are interested stating that interest and the ask that's in there is that they allow us to do some of this analysis so that we can get to that idea of feasibility When the discussion came up, oh, it must be eight years ago now, about the courthouse and a new courthouse and the idea that our historic building would no longer be the courthouse, there was a lot of interest from our community in keeping that building a civic building and not making it a... a commercial type of building that that is this that is the people's building and keeping it such and having the city move in there and having it be the the seat of all our municipal services really meets that criteria so what i'm asking council is to endorse by signing the letter which is in your packet which says just this to the county it does not commit us to anything it does not commit us to a way ahead but it formally states that we as an elected body would like to collaborate and look into the feasibility of is this an option that we should consider and what would the cost be to do that? And so with that, I am looking for a motion regarding the proposed letter. Do I have a motion?

I move we... Submit? Send?

Send.

Transmit. Thank you, good lawyer. This official letter to our Transylvania County Board of Commissioners concerning our interest in the courthouse building and interest in a feasibility study moving forward.

Do I have a second?

Second.

I'll open it for questions and comments.

Miss Holder, I don't have you.

All right, Mr.

Wise. So I moved to Brevard and you're gonna say I'm not local, but that's okay. I moved to Brevard in 2009 and this courthouse was being discussed then. And when I checked today, my calendar said 2026, still being discussed. And I think there's a really strong opportunity here for us with lots of caveats because I'm an architect and old buildings worry me a lot, especially this kind of age. But what I think is critical for our community is this has to be a civic building. It has to maintain a civic presence because it is the most important building in the county. So I'm really exciting if there's an opportunity here for us as a city to activate it and keep it you know, active for the people. I'm very curious about the feasibility study and what's really happening in the building. So I also know that this structure or structures, if we stayed here, would require an enormous amount of money to fit. And I think even if we did that, it still wouldn't be adequate for our needs as a city. You can correct me if I'm wrong, Wilson, but I think that's fairly accurate to say. Yes, sir, I agree with that. So I think it's exciting. We'll see what happens, but it's exciting.

Mr. Baker.

Yeah, as Councilman Wise said, this is our county's icon, and an icon for the city of Brevard as well. I truly believe this is one of the most important projects that we could endeavor upon over the next few years. This is where we recite the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, it's where we light the Christmas tree during the holidays. It's where our Memorial Day service is. I've attended protests there. I've attended vigils there when national events have brought people out to vigils. And it would be very hard to do any of those things in front of a hotel or an office building. I think the only viable option for this building to stay within civic use and belonging to the people of Transylvania County and Brevard is for it to be the center of our municipal services and city hall. And personally, I would just love to see the front doors open to the public again, and I would love to see that day. So I'm very excited about this. I'm very hopeful that the county will partner with us on this and work hand-in-hand with really preserving this for the people for generations to come.

Mr. Daniel?

I have nothing further to add.

Mr. Lytle?

I'll just say that I echo all the comments. It's important to preserve the building, but I do want to make sure that we, after this, we do all due diligence. I think we have consensus about what we'd like to see, but for budget, for the public, we owe it to make sure that we have a side-by-side comparison of all options. So that's renovating, that's side by side with renovating this building, building a new building. All of those options need to be weighed together so that we make a decision in the end that's eyes wide open. Thanks.

All right. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. Moving on to our next item, a new business appointment of member to the Parks, Trails, and Recreation Committee. Who's presenting? Is that you, Mr. Lytle?

Yeah, I'll do that. So as part of the Finance Human Resource Committee, we reviewed applications for a citizen appointment on the Parks and Trails Committee. There were, in the end, there were three candidates. One who had... applied earlier without an opening and then expressed interest later on. We had Ms. Shawna Powell and Mr. Ryan Olsen, all are great applicants, but the committee recommends Shawna Powell to be to be appointed to the committee, mainly because a great educational background in parks and rec, owns a business as well that is in the industry, and also we think would bring fresh ideas and a new perspective to the committee. So with that, we're asking for that appointment for tonight.

Council, do I have a motion concerning the draft resolution appointing a member to the Parks, Trails, and Recreation Committee?

I'll make a motion that we approve the resolution appointing Shanna Powell to the Parks, Trails, and Recreation Committee.

Do I have a second?

I will second.

OK. Opening for comment, Mr. Wise.

Ms. Powell's application is really impressive. I'm excited. I'm a co-chair of that committee.

Co-chair? Vice-chair?

Some sort of chair. It's been a long night. That's all. Thank you.

Ms. Holder?

No comment.

Mr. Baker?

I think it's great that we can recognize Howie's service on this committee and appoint a new member at the same meeting. So excited to get started.

Mr. Daniel?

It looked like there were some very good applications here. I had three people for one position. That's Great for our committee recruitment, and I look forward to hearing from her work.

Mr. Lytle.

Okay.

All right, all in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Motion passes. All right, and that is the end of new business, and we are on remarks and future agenda considerations. And we will start with Mr. Lytle.

Thanks, and I'd echo Councilman Baker's comments about the new codes and unhoused. And I think that it's an issue and a crisis that has to be attacked from all ends. One of those is giving our law enforcement officers the ability to act in the moment. And the other will be putting those things in place to make sure that we give those persons help after the fact so that there's no repeat. We want to make sure that they've got somewhere to sleep, somewhere to congregate and be a part of the community here downtown. So I just wanted to echo that change of this vote tonight is in no way in no way diminishes our commitment to make sure that we tackle what is what is a crisis and that we take it very seriously i'll speak for myself i take it very seriously but i know the rest of the council does as well thank you mr daniel

Yeah, I would like to address a vote that we took at our last meeting concerning the food trucks, and particularly the one in Jordan Street parking lot. I voted for that measure. I thought about that, and I think my comment was is we'll see how it works, and if it doesn't work, we'll we'll deal with it, but my concern is by the time you know that a food truck in the Jordan Street parking lot is gonna adversely affect one of the restaurants there, that restaurant could possibly be out of business. So I feel like we may, I feel like I voted for that without giving it full thought, so I would like to raise that concern.

Thank you, Mr. Daniel. Mr. Baker?

Yeah, I just have one question, and it's a follow-up, Mr. Manager, to the HACC discussion. If we do not receive the grant, will we build that sewer regardless?

Yes, because they have a Plan B project, and that's the original one we talked about to build, what was it, 15 or 16 units there instead, Emily? Okay.

They are currently going after, so this is the primary one, but they're also looking at other options. They're putting together a grant application for CDBG-DR multifamily. So even if this round of funding doesn't work, they're pursuing countless other options to be able to put together a funding stack to be able to support this project. They do not... They have had multiple other options in the past, but in order to build on that site, they do need sewer connection, and that was included as part of the development agreement we signed.

Okay. Thank you. And looking forward to talking about that more in a couple weeks.

Ms. Holder.

So we won't get a Plan B option unless it's necessary?

Yes, ma'am.

All right. I want to share a personal note. And as you all know, I've been very transparent about some personal things. And one was with my daughter and her cancer diagnosis, which caused me to be absent from a couple meetings in the last year and a half we've been going through this. It's been a year. And on Tuesday, she would ring the bell. Nice. And if you know what that means... That means her cancer treatments are complete, and the doctors are happy, and I'm happy. Yeah. Thank you so much for your prayers and your support, and just asking without even thinking about it. But thank you.

We're so glad.

Thank you. Thank you, Counsel, for understanding.

I'm not going to try to follow that up. No comment.

Mr. Attorney.

No, thank you. Nothing to say.

Madam Clerk. Nothing for me, thanks. Mr. Manager.

I just wanted to share my congratulations to Jason Posnock and the crew out at the Brevard Music Center for a great season, a special anniversary season. capped off by the Yo-Yo Ma concert last night. Probably one of the most significant classical musicians in history was in Brevard. I had seen him once before when I was a college student, and so the fact that Brevard Music Center's reach is comparable to the largest university in our state is really saying something. Their presence is one of the things that drew me here. I'm so grateful that I get to take my kids to see not only famous musicians like him, but future famous musicians that are training there, and expose them to music of all sorts. Research has indicated that exposure to music helps kids' brains function better, and so having this in town is a great thing as a parent, and so I just want to express my gratitude to them and say congratulations, and I look forward to attending more of their events next year.

Absolutely. You know, the Music Center is just one of the things that makes this community so special. And also what makes it so special are people like our two awardees today, you know, 100 years old. you know still giving back to this community being on committees and really working to make things better that is the type of community that brevard is caring about everybody regardless of their housing situation and doing everything we can within our power to help people when they need help that's brevard that is this city We also have a number of things going on this week. Our city also stays so busy. We are hosting the Main Street Manager Conference this week, which means we have the Main Street Managers. Heart of Brevard is a Main Street program. and we have the main street managers from across the state here in Brevard for their annual conference. I think it's the first time that we have been able to do that, and so we will be showing off our downtown and our main street to the experts from around the state, and hopefully getting some new creative ideas from them, but also showing off to them on just how wonderful our town is. Tomorrow night we are going to have a wonderful event. Let me turn it over to which chief wants to talk about it.

I've talked a lot.

All right. Chase, why don't you?

So tomorrow we are hosting National Night Out.

We are looking forward to that dunk tank. So come. That's true. I do want to compliment both of your departments for doing that blood drive because it is such a critical shortage. And that friendly competition was a good way to do it. And the friendly competition to see who's going to raise as much money in the dunk tank. Are you going to keep track of what each person brings it? Okay, all right. Well, we are looking forward to tomorrow evening, that's for sure. And then my last reminder is that we have our fall prevention, in other words, falling down prevention, how to prevent falls, that our age-friendly group, not fall in the climate, not autumn. We are looking forward to autumn. Autumn's coming. It's coming. But fall prevention seminar is next week on the 13th from 10 to 1230 in the Rogo room and as part of our age-friendly Brevard series. So come join us and learn what to do if you do fall. I think the fire department would be glad to know that You know, people are learning what they should do and how you respond if needed and also how to protect yourself so that you don't fall. And I think we have no closed sessions tonight, so all I need is a motion to adjourn. So moved. Do I have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

We are adjourned. Thank you.

Good job, y'all. There will be no lowering tomorrow night.