Trails Committee - Regular Meeting

yeah I I have one comment and I thought Lind did I mean Lynn you take incredible minutes isn't She Wonderful they are really good the one thing you made a comment about the um I think in the section on the East Coast Greenway study advisory committee you said there was nothing to report I mean there was there was no new information other than I think I said there would be a meeting coming up that was to be scheduled sometime in early spring um so which I'm going to talk about in a few minutes uh because the meeting is next week but I you know it's it's a minor thing there was no new information so we can accept the minutes read and she can put that in the next month's meeting M um actually because um yeah you're the only voting member so we'll still have to defer the minutes but I posted them online so people can see the draft minutes and I will make the update okay okay [Music] um uh Town engineer report update that's hello everyone um so i' I've got some good progress to report on um many of our Trail projects um I'll start I'll start with the East Coast Greenway project um so as I've told you before I think well I I don't know if we had actually so we we actually advertised for design the state this is the only so we applied for this grant in this is just patting myself on the back but we applied for this grant back in May last May um we were the top project in the region and we the first project to advance to design the and the only project so far and and I'm hearing I'm hearing that no other projects May Advance because of funding issues but that that's a whole

another issue but um so I we we advertised for designers and we have interviews with five Consultants on the 25th of March this is the censor to high school this is the Toby road to high school Toby Road Toby road to high school wow I know that's kind of crazy huh that that's seven and a half million or something like that it's like six yeah around six million you know for with everything included that's that's 100% state and federal funded um so that's what's going on with that um five Consultants um you know they're all all Consultants I'm familiar with so I'm excited um you know to interview them it it'll be interesting to see who who gives us the best presentation um the the Town Center to high school that um you know we went back out to our on calls for proposals per the direction from the vendor selection panel um I forget how many I think six of our on calls submitted and we ended up picking BL companies who was the designer of the first phase of the greenway Trail next to your house Joe oh wow and um we needed unfortunately we needed a little bit more money than had been um budgeted for that design that that resolution was just on the council agenda I think you'll remember it on Monday Joe yes you I approved that so I thought I thought we gave you more money a year ago six month I think you did not me before pre I think I think originally it was 100 and then 30 got added and now we added 60 more well the longer you wait the more expensive it gets well no nobody questions it well we had one guy that did question said didn't we just do something like this okay well I mean so I'm issuing a PO I I

just needed Finance to set up the account um you know transfer the money and then I can issue the PO so the PO is going to get issued in and I'll get a schedule from BL and have something you know much more solid to report back you know next time we meet um so that's the Town Center to high school um Tyler Street to Rockwell Park similar to Town Center to high school we we have an RFP out right now to our on calls those are due next Friday so we'll have to you know evaluate the proposals and then make a recommendation to the vendor selection panel and then you know hopefully there's enough money in that account to to cover where the price I think there's more money for that project um for what it is than there was for the high school to Town Center I think we'll be okay with budget um but we'll see we'll see what what happens I mean worst case is um I have to go back to council and and transfer some more funds but um you know that that project will have a you know we'll be we'll be running almost side by side the high school of town center I I don't understand don't don't we have the 6 and a half million doesn't cover everything no no this is the Tyler streets to Rockwell Park oh okay different project different project okay so we so we have the think of it this way like a big te right the mayor will give us money out of our own pockets okay so so that's Tyler streets of Rockwell Park um let's see what else is on my list um no nothing new to report you know on the gap between town center and Day Hill Road um if you want to hear I I um have a

contract with so moving on to Blue Hills complete streets um yeah can I go ahead Kevin yeah can I just ask one question about the um and I'm not actually I'm not sure I sent it to you um I know I sent to John Coleman the planner and to uh Joe Merritt Council uh Meritt um there was and I surprised me I know last time when we talked about the section uh from Day Hill to the town center the Griffin line um you mentioned that they had just resigned a contract to keep the rail line active or whatever right yeah that's right I saw either in late January or early February uh they have revived the plan or someone has revived the connector from uh you know a Union Station in Hartford to the airport using the Griffin line which was you know I think there was an there was an article in the current right I saw that too I or was it an email I think it was I think it was in the Harvard Business Journal maybe and I I think maybe I did copy you on it that's some guy though was I saw yeah I saw it well I yeah well they said there or anybody someone had introduced something in the legislature yes yeah so I mean you know you have to have some kind of influence to at least get someone to raise your bill um but so you don't know you don't know anything I haven't heard anything other than what you sent that's it um I mean I'll I'll ask around I'll ask um you know my my do liaison for for our our project see if he's heard anything um well and and I probably uh we'll probably hear more about this next week too when we have the c meeting because they're gonna

obviously be talking about the Griffin line that's yeah okay yeah and if not we'll bring it up thank you okay yeah great um so for to move on to the complete Street projects the Blue Hills project um you know I have the signed contract back from the contractor we have a preconstruction meeting set up for next Friday and we're issuing a notice to proceed for April 1st so um you know the contractor should be breaking ground on April 1st or shortly thereafter um you know he's got to order he's got to order his materials and and have them come in before you know he can really do anything significant but but complete streets on on Blue Hills Avenue on Blue Hills Avenue from the Harford Town Line up to Britain Drive um let's see the tungus Avenue sidewalk um so that the bids on that project are due next Friday seems like everything's happening in the next couple weeks but um yeah bids are due next Friday on that project and you know we'll have to evaluate the bids and and get dot to approve it so it'll probably be another month before we have a pre-con meeting and that gets started but um it won't be Far Behind Blue Hills this is from Philly Park to just the that's right to gers short yeah yeah it's very short but it but it's um big part of the project is um you know constructing the pedestrian walk phase um to get across tungus Avenue at gers right now right now it's it's a concurrent walk phase there's no there's no exclusive Crossing to get over um tungus Avenue and lastly is the school street and

winberry complete streets project um that's another lotet project so um VHB finished you know VHB has got that design they finished their survey and and they're working on preliminary design so I expect to have you know preliminary design plans in about a month or so on that project so kog can review it and we can keep moving forward that's the one where our she seberry resident can ride his bike to 3:30 Park and get on the East Coast [Laughter] Greenway and U what what what's happening on Maple Avenue the street caling project so um that's in design East West um engineering out of West Harford is designing the the there there's there's five locations that are getting traffic caling um four of them are are what are called the the chokers offset chokers and then one location is a a basically a they call it a raised table it elevates the road at the intersection to it's kind of like a a large speed bump so that's in design but um the town manager got so much um I don't know the right word to use but so many calls from residents on Maple Avenue namely one resident that um he agreed to install something temporary until the project starts construction so um you know in the Spring Public Works will be installing some some kind of temporary measures in four in the four offset choker locations probably it it'll be in the form of cones or barrels or or delineators we haven't decided yet what we're going to do um but actually isn't a bad thing because it it'll give us a chance to try it out and see how it

works with with something that's not too expensive to put in yeah actually I just point out because um the the traffic calming initiative was when I was on Council and chairing the public safety subcommittee and um you know one of the things that came there was a staff initiative uh your your predecessor and in conjunction with um Chief hammock and uh uh you know DPW one of the ideas with that whole process was going what what was initially the idea that if the decision was made to do something that you know after review something should be done on these streets um generally the idea was sort of a two-phase pro process anyway uh do something temporary to sort of test you know to ground test it if you will and and then once you saw how that would work make adjustments so I don't think what's going to happen is a bad is is no I don't think so either I agree proof of concept you know the U the um so you so they're doing the temporary thing then you would expect actual construction to be in well I mean we're hoping to it'll begin late this year um it all depends on the design process and the bidding process and the you know the the contractor selection process it's it's kind it's gotten it's gotten a little more lengthy um you know with with the new vendor selection panel and um you know there's no fortunately there's there's no State oversight on this so we don't we're not you know not held up by any another agency so that that's good um so I'm hopeful that the permanent

solution you know can start late summer early fall good thank you you're welcome um and that's that's all I have on my list I mean obviously we have many other projects but um those are the ones that I've been updating you guys on regularly hey thank you very much um before we get into thiss is you have any kind of report what's going on with your yes well that's um that's item C under old business is it yeah oh I'm sorry yeah that's fine okay do do you want me to go ahead with that um Rob and I got an email God was it earlier this week or late last week um the kog process East Coast advisory committee uh is going to finally you know meet again I got the impression from the email that would probably be not the final me meeting but close to the final meeting remember there was supposed to be one more and then the project of sort of got um detoured I think by the Griffin line study um but we're we're meeting in person actually uh next Wednesday at kog headquarters um and one you know the what's on the agenda is I think we are going to get the final preferred alternative route so we will know definitively where Hartford does want to come in which hopefully is still is still along the Griffin line um because that's what we're planning on with the Toby Road uh uh the Toby Road Branch obviously um and um I think then then you know get that I think the idea is to go back and update the municipalities we'll find out more next week uh that was that's all the

information I had from that email MH yeah me too and I'll be there as well I plan I plan on being there of course I ask an obvious question here as we only have financing to go to Toby road so how are we going to cover the between Toby Road and the Harford line well we actually applied the application um actually called for going to the Harford Town Line the department asked us to pull it back to to because fhwa will not allow you to end a trail at where there's no connection to it in other words I mean it's okay to end a a trail at a road because you you know there there's a road there but at the Harford Town Line there's nothing to connect to there so they're GNA have Hartford build you know when Hartford does their section it'll it'll it'll include going to Toby Road oh great that answers the question thank you okay are you done yeah okay more more more coming after the meeting next week okay let's go after uh item a the Adams Hoskins characters anything anything happened with that you talk it's on my list okay but I don't think we had we had we walked it before the last meeting or was that after I think that was after the last meeting I I don't remember I could look okay yeah well no but but Rob and um uh Dan Carter and I walked Walked it and we walked actually not just the section uh from windbury road on the Simsbury side to the Adams Hoskins we walked all the way down the old terill road or Terry Plains Road to duncaster so you know I think I think

rob you you were you were convinced we could do something out there it's just a matter of you know timing and getting on the I I mean I think the question the question I still have is are we going to need to apply for funds to do that or is this something that Personnel can do you know if we schedule it and that that's why I was sort of looking to you to you know give an give an estimate on in terms of getting this into the budget process clearly not for this year um it's going to be a difficult enough budget as it is without without other things but um can you maybe talk about that I mean I I I we we walked it on January 16th so the meeting was it was after the last Trails committee meeting because I think that was January 9th um I mean personally I'd like to see it almost evolve maybe you know just just thinking out loud here you know maybe maybe if Public Works can go in and and kind of make a path that people can follow that maybe they will start to to follow it and then it can be something that gets improved over time you know that you know it'd be nice to just have something that can be walked because it's you know it wasn't easy for us to walk it and you probably need to start out with a chainsaw yeah exactly exactly and if somebody chainsaw and got rid of the fallen tree M you if we ident if we could identify you know a literally a path and and if it requires you know some some dead tree removal and then you know that's certainly something Public Works is good at um then then we can do it so I I'll I'll keep talking to Dan about it it's on my list you know we we

talk about it monthly so and one and one thing just just for the committee members and for anybody who's watching this um you know it I think you would agree that it did meet the description I sort of told you guys beforehand um if you look at that you know if that section just Adams Hoskins I mean the rest of is actually pretty easy as long as you can find sort of the old road um but um the Adams Hoskin section it's sort of broken into thirds uh the third on the Simsbury side because going in from that entrance I think where windbury Road ends and there is parking uh you are accessing some of the trails in both Penwood and wi Cox you're accessing the metacomet trail the trail is very well defined there so the first third or so it's exactly what you're saying people people use that so the trail is there it's defined and if it kept going they would keep using it exactly exactly and then it's the middle third where the road cross crosses off crosses across the water course that has sort of um you know made it unclear where the old road is you can see the stone walls it's that middle third that as counselor Meritt the chair said you know that's where you need to take chain you know you need you need a s you need a crew to get that cleaned up and once it's cleaned up then you can see where maybe you need to put some fill in um and ultimately more more work there is probably where you need to do the trail work to keep it from eroding but then the last third uh except for actually finally getting down because the old road veers off to the South uh the last third is pretty easy too it's that middle third that really

needs to work I think there's a Trails group a group for making Trails uh on the uh Gravel Ridge Trap Rock did the Trap Rock people have a they have some trails that they they've had people work on volunteers I I mean I I Jo no [Music] yeah hi hi Rob it's Paula Jones hi Paula nice to see you nice to see you too um is it are you thinking the rock stars with Connecticut forest and Park associ ation that does volunteer work well I was just thinking um the the the Blue Trail folks um I mean they yeah cfpa yeah c yeah connected forest and park Association yeah y I don't I don't have any connections there um but but you know we can we can s and I've actually emailed them on other things and they're not very responsive but you know we we we can I can send an email out I don't know if you guys know anyone there we we we used to know the executive director but he now he works for deep so okay um but yeah I mean we can put some feelers out and see if we can get connection I mean I think ultimately it'll be us doing it but you know if if the Blue Trail folks have an interest in in making a con connection then then maybe they would be willing to do some work themselves good idea yeah yeah great yeah yeah I agree it was it was a fun walk though it was a few years ago we had somebody was

trying to get okay to put some Trails for a biking mountain biking mountain biking um yeah no doubt it'll get used by mountain bikers too if you build it they have some interest in some willingness to do some trail development themselves I don't have I don't remember the name nemba yeah Northeast mountain bike Association is the the active group in Connecticut I I I don't think we should turn them down for use of it so I agree I think you're partial there yeah I [Laughter] am okay um enough on that thank you um East Coast Greenway path inclusive of town center plan um this is of course it's all tied up and I I have uh I talked to Rob I about the possibility that we as of as of I am remember we we had the bike path ending up um coming from the the from the high school uh over to Town Center somewhere I know next to Dunkin dones or somewhere in there and uh and the other the other part tively coming up next to Congregational Church and uh and meeting those two has been sitting on hold because of the uh lack of development of the U Town Center plan and one thing I I I talked with Rob about was the possibility of Dead ending a windberry right there in front of the Congregational Church which would kind

of if we did do that we would Define pretty much we could go across there where the dead end is and go right around U through and take a left without crossing any streets which be very nice and I left on this side of Park Avenue uh on the other side I should say and uh go and and presumably all go straight to meet the other end so that that would simplify our going through the center plan but I think whether that happens or not is kind of important so here we go here's have you seen this uh yes I think that was isn't that the one this the center plan yeah yeah so um so I Joe I I sent this to do because do is re-evaluating the roundabouts that they had looked at years ago yes um you know after all the development south of the Town Center the the volume traffic roundabouts no longer were were um a good solution because of the the extra volume so they're going to um you know look at the traffic counts again and then and look at um you know look at new Concepts for what to do at the Town Center tungus Avenue Park Avenue Bloomfield and and mountain in winberry so I I forwarded this to dot forwarded a concept of Dot and asked if they could include you know looking at a culde saac on winberry like is shown here as one of their options because this this this plan this plan hasn't the the the roadway component of this plan has has never

been vetted hasn't been vetted you know by a traffic engineer with with traffic counts so we don't know we don't know what the impacts of that would be will they be vetting it that's what I'm hoping do will do maybe they'll even pay for it yeah maybe maybe that would answer all our questions I believe on where we go through the center yeah right right I mean interestingly enough though I noticed on this plan they don't really address you know sidewalks or or you know bike infrastructure but you know maybe too too much of a too too conceptual level to to really show that um two two things F first of all do you have the entire packet for that Rob I do yeah because that on the on the infrastructure Improvement they do show the bike paths oh they do okay yes they show they show tentative bike paths but I'm not I'm not sure completely ties into the change the roads but they show uh let's see which one there you go uh no not that one keep going oh I bet this is the one I bet this is the last one well maybe this is the most current I think uh I didn't see it not there uh let's see no well yeah I'm I'm looking at another document that doesn't have all the other early stuff okay I think this is what they presented maybe the last time keep going I I think they only just have that um that one conceptual which is the conceptual PL yeah there there's I it's on the website I'll I'll okay send it to you tomorrow but I mean you know it's not incredibly great detail of exactly how it would work with the restate re re U rerouted roads um the initial go can you go back

to the original one you had up there yeah with the the sort of schematic of the roads so two things when they talked about that in detail one was continuing Jerome by the fire station you know fire that that would connect to where the fire station comes in now and um or I think I think that's where we connect there was concern about the fire access y but that wasn't that turned out not they I guess they did talk to the center district and that didn't turn out to be a big issue because the Center District would normally go out on tungus yeah their doors I think their doors face tungus don't they they're yeah they do both ways I think yeah but but they but they they want to have the ability to go out this way too and you know say this they don't have the firehouse actually on there I think it's I think maybe it's the one off the roundabout but there was there there was determined there was no problem with it um the thing though that kept being repeated and I will just tell you this and this has been repeated numerous times because that's why I know it um they said the the claim was made and I would assume Gan and York probably has some of their own traffic engineering type people not if not specifically a traffic engineer um they claim that making winbury a culdesac now you know cutting off the access from windbury to tungus MH um they claim that doing that will fix the center intersection without a problem just because the signaling is complet you know the reason the signaling is so poor at the center intersection is because it has to account for the two levels of traffic at both the windbury Avenue and the Park

Avenue I I you're you you would know more about that than I do but that has everyone has sort of um I think likes the plan because they thought that would solve the problem without Ian not not necessarily anybody had anything against the roundabouts but that that would solve that problem with doing essentially no more to that intersection other than the signalization it'd be a big help no question um it just I'm worried it's going to just shift or create a new problem somewhere else either at you know at either end of Jerome okay yeah that could be I mean that that's a different issue that's a different issue and they did talk about different volumes and so forth especially with the you know um I think especially with the apartment the the apartment sort of on the northeast side the you know where the Farmers Exchange area is now um but I will I will send you the presentation um with the map it's not it's not great I mean it's not like it's a real detailed you know the bike track exactly goes here the one thing just and since we're looking at this I mean the one thing I would definitely want them to take out of this I mean I think you know the the chair's comment about if the bike path came down tungus and you know tungus on a bike path and then could turn into this and not even have to go through the center you know and and catch it that way I think that's great um the one thing with this design to me that I think is sort of crazy is you have the roundabout and then you have this other sort of small roundabout in front of the Congregational Church and I I don't see why you would even do that yeah I don't I don't understand that either yeah so so I mean this is just a conceptual thing but I I you know

they were talking about people for weddings or what but you know you're you're G to pull in the side I don't yeah I don't understand why yeah I don't understand that either make it more green Green Space yeah make more green space that's our big question is everybody wants more green space yeah um anyway maybe less buildings fewer buildings more grass less pavement I guess the good news is they are they are aware that there are B this bike path thing and is is a is a major issue okay good well thank you uh anything I guess enough on that um is there bicycle friendly Community status hasn't changed because we kind of threw a wet blanket on it uh last meeting so uh because they were so wrapped up in other things but now that is that application is done so I'll um talk to U people about getting that going again um so any comments on that okay um new business anybody have anything new that discuss yes do you have something oh okay okay I I could add something Joe so um dot has the next round of community connectivity funds out it's it's the same program um that we're building the tungus Avenue sidewalk with and we're going to be applying for that um grant for the gab road traffic calming sidewalk project which estimated around

a million dollars so that that application is due I think May 31st any possibility of getting our Northern Gap an application for planning on that or something so we can get that started because it takes so long but and may not be money available in a few years so I mean it's it's for construction funds they don't pay for design okay that particular Grant yeah um but I'll definitely keep my eyes open you know my hope is that the department you know the dep Department's pushing hard the East Coast Greenway hard so they're they're going to find the funds that's that's what I've been told the state will you're saying state will right okay right but yeah I mean obviously if if you know when the next round of Transportation Alternatives funding comes out that's what we're going to apply for I mean that's that's the you know that's the grant we just applied for last year you know for the Toby road to high school so that that's that's the the best fit for the next section of Greenway that's going to be what at least seven million I would think probably yeah it's going to be expensive I mean it's been capped at four million that Grant historically but we're getting six so go figure so so I I guess that will have to be uh rails with Trails probably yeah seems such a shame I mean I know I know okay as it we don't have enough space on that without adding some dirt so yeah no go ahead Kevin sorry well no I I you know I am all for restoration of

the railroads to for real railroad service but I'm tired of just dreaming about it and letting it all rust in the rain you know so either either put a real Railroad in there that you know real you know I guess now would be use the track for more of a light Transit and I've never thought that the idea of you know I mean you go to most cities and their airport is connected to the downtown area by some kind of light Transit yeah that that could be fine but I don't want to sit here and you know E I mean we're building this Trail and we should either decide we're going to put put rail service in there or we should move on and just use the trail uh right you know the the the down there's also the option of trying to you know what they did up in Maine for the Down East Sunrise Trail the part from like um Ellsworth to uh or um yeah Ellsworth to um up further north they covered the the rails and it's just a horrible surface I mean you know like with with BR yeah no it's it's unridable I mean Paul and I've have done it and it's just terrible oh wow um it's not anything you want you know but they did it so that they could potentially uncover it in future years I know you know let us I mean we can build the trails now and people will use them who knows when this rail service will come to be they they could they could always build a railroad next to it the trails instead of forcing us to there you go they have no use for it now so why cause this the extra expense in tax fa okay okay any public comment yeah just a comment what's been happening in South Windsor we have that

rail line uh along Route five basically from the East Harford uh Line North and there's uh uh on goes probably three three or four years back they put a spur in and built Home Depot and they're making good use of the rail and and now there's another project up up by Aldi a big Warehouse that's going to put in a rail spur so something that didn't get used much at all 20 years ago has now come into use Home Depot used to keep our track busy but they decided it wasn't worth it for some reason yeah that's that's why that's why it was active yeah well that that was for their store you mean no it was for B Lumber for the whole Theon I think oh yeah of course the Home Depot in South Windsor is just a big you know Warehouse facility and distribution center that's what this is in North Bloomfield so anyway okay um any other comments no public comments and we have a motion to adjourn there we go okay thank you thanks Rob see you guys I I'll see you guys next week whoever is going to KAG yeah yeah yeah be you and I we'll see you okay great