Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Please. Uh, we'll have roll call. Essley here. Longer here. Miller's absent. Herby here. Rubchuk Schaefer here. Ste here. Sellers here. Webster here. Wendell here. Peace here. plots there. A little delay there. Do we have a motion for the minutes from the last meeting? Please make a motion we approve the minutes of the last meeting. Second. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I

and we'll start off with BC 2025-14. There we go. Awesome. So, PC Whoa, shocked me. PC 2025-14 Cats, uh, Lawrence Cats and HDJ Investments. That's way more tongue twister than I'd like to admit. Uh, LLC 20 or 207 East Market Street, Nepan, Indiana 46550. A request for a two lot minor subdivision of a 4.121 acre property located at 7794 Queen Road and 7908 Queen Road both of Plymouth, Indiana 46563 identified as parcels 5041260026001 and 5041260055 triple000017 zoned R1 rural residential district. So the proposal here is the act is seeking to approve of a new minor subdivision. The name of that proposed subdivision would be RSBR Queen Road subdivision. Uh subdivision sounds pretty significant but simply what they're looking to do as you can see there are two uh one squareish looking parcel and one longer rectangular looking parcel. They're looking to adjust that internal lot line easternly to adjust those two lot lines. But under our ordinance is called subdivision. So as you can see here, the uh subdivision itself is going further into the wetland area as it's shown currently in the middle of the upland ground. The wetland area is pretty well defined by what is being in crop rotation and what is not. And so as you see that line begins to move easternly to be able to pick up that additional ground in space. Uh this was the original subdivision that they provided to us or the original plat provided to

us. Um and the uh land title survey or the alpha survey that was provided as well as additional information. Um we requested some additional amendments to be made to that document and they were able to make those for us. U most of which you're not going to notice. Um a lot of it just has to deal with different naming aspects. But as far as the pens and those sorts of things, those pretty well remained unchanged. So, we went out to the property uh from earlier this year for the BCA case where they were approved to be able to show you what it looked like postcrop uh removal uh from the harvest time period. This is what it looks like as you're looking southbound towards US30 and then we're up at the intersection of Queen Plymouth Port and US30. uh looking across the street just for reference and some signs for the BCA case matter and looking northbound from the same intersection. That's where the new Dollar General would go. So for the analysis under the subdivision control ordinance, the plan commission shall determine whether or not the proposal has met the requirements and standards of this ordinance. Based on a cursive review of the project, the technical review committee did not see any issue with the intent. The project will create no new lots, but will be adjusting an existing lot line. There will be no new roads created, nor will there be a need for municipal services of water or sewer. Uh during the site planning review, the applicant agrees to move the driveway on Kwine Road as far north as possible, but that all can be referenced under the BCA case 2025-16 earlier this year. Uh for the decision criteria um that you have to make this decision against includes five items. Um for that decision criteria, you have establishment of minimum width, depth and area of lots with projected subdivision which is not applicable uh because you're increasing in size and

you're able to apply that to both properties. Um coordination of subdivision streets with existing and planned streets and highways. Uh there are no new streets proposed and the applicant has been advised of the INDOT projects in the propel study. Uh number three, the coordination with an extension of facilities including included in the comprehensive plan. Uh there will be a rural this will be a rural project. So there'll be no current proposed extension of facilities to service that project. Uh for fair allocation of areas of streets, parks, schools, public and semi-public buildings, homes, utilities, businesses and industry, uh the proposal would not warrant new streets, parks, schools, etc. Now for the distribution of uh population and traffic in a manner tending to create conditions favorable to health, safety, convenience and the harmonious development of the city. Proposal was already viewed and associated with a variance and applicant has agreed to make the most of uh safe considerations as it comes to traffic distribution. So full recommendation based on the subdivision plat provided uh that was subsequently amended by staff's recommendation. Staff would recommend approval of the proposed as uh meeting the intent and requirements laid out in the subdivision ordinance. Now it is up for uh plan commission plan commission determination with staff's recommendation of approval. Any questions for staff? How does the development of another Dollar General um fit into the overall comprehensive plan for PL

that was a portion under the BZA case, not the planning commission case this evening. This is about whether or not it meets subdivision control ordinance, right? Okay.

The only thing you get to base it on is these five factors. The BZA has already determined that it's an acceptable use to go into that space. We're just determining whether or not that adjustment of the lot line easternly does or does not make sense. That is it. Well, we have no, you know, we could have 10 more Dollar Generals if somebody wanted to. We as long as they go in the correct places, we we have no say of whether they can put a Dollar General in or not. Correct. Without substantial changes to the zoning ordinance, it would be rather difficult to rule out a singular

uh retail business. That's correct. Because I've been asked this question before, right? So, borderline, you would get into legal complications with, right, sectioning out a single retailer, regardless of which direction.

But I do agree that it makes a good place for a Dollar General if that's what you want. But I can remember back in the day [clears throat] there was uh from where I'm at on Jefferson Street, we had three small grocery stores that were in the neighborhood within maybe four or five blocks from our house and it's not much difference. You know, that's basically what they are. Dollar General's small grocery store. Any questions on the subdivision?

Do we hear open it up for public hearing? Do we have a motion? Make a motion we open this up for public hearing. Do I? It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Right. Anyone uh for or against or whatever? Yes, sir. Want me to come up there? Sure. Okay. Uh name and address? Sure.

My name is Dave Peters. I'm uh 4152 Progress Boulevard in Peru, Illinois. I'm here on behalf of the Overland Group, uh the developer for this project. Um so, just wanted to kind of make it known. I'm here. And if you have any questions for me, um the intro kind of covered most of what you need to know for the subdivision, but if you have any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer them. Is this the uh the Overland group? Do they own the other dollar vending in town or is that uh split up with somebody else? Um well, it was a good question. I honestly do not know the answer to that. I think the last two are each owned by different companies. Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're all developed.

They franchise their ter territories out, don't they? Is it kind? Yeah. Yeah, there can be different different developers in different areas. Um but obviously this one we're proposing on the on the west side of town here. So any questions have it if I do we have anything else from anybody else in the audience please? Yes sir. My name is James. Sure. Come on up. James all right. Most of these people won't bite but some of them will have to watch them. Oh, I'm James Warner on Plymouth Leaport Trail.

Uhhuh. Um I You want to speak in the microphone a little bit closer? I live close on 7886 Plymouth Leort Trail. And I'm a little vague. Which parcel of land is he are we talking about? It' be the intersection with you come off US30 on the Queen Road. Yeah. Yeah. Before you turn on Plymouth Pork Trail, it's right there on the corner to the east. So the east side of Queen. Oh, east side of Queen. Going down that as you head north. Okay. And that's where the Dollar General was. That was me proposed. Correct. Okay. Now, now I know where you're at. I I was thinking highway. That little frontage road. Yep.

And Queen Road as you head north. It's that east side. Okay. And a driveway into that subdivision will probably be up far north you could get it. Right. It'll be far north of their property is possible. Okay. Thank you. That's all I want to know. Okay. Thank you, sir. Anyone else? There being nothing else, do we have a motion to close the public hearing?

I I have a question sharp for this first. This is quite a ways out from the city and our county representative is here, Stan Clots. You have anything you want to add with this one way or the other because it it is a ways out from Plymouth. Yeah, I just u make sure they question check with Jason for the driveway fit and all kinds of whatever they're going to be. Okay. Uh and and also Parker's parts. You're not going to be hooked up utilities, sending stuff commercial, not residential, but pass that. Thank you for noticing.

I'm getting older, but I don't always miss things. Uh, I make a motion to close the public hearing. Do we have a second? Second. It's been moved and second. Any other questions from the board? There being none, do we have a a vote on it. Do we have a motion? We need a vote to We need a vote on Oh, I'm sorry. All those in favor signify by saying I. Thank you. We're trying to move along too quick. Okay. All right. So, do we have a motion? Make a motion we approve PC 202514 for the uh minor subdivision on road. Second.

It's been moved and seconded. We will vote by roll call, please. Yes. Yes. Kyle. Um, as you're calling roll, uh, Randy needs to be visible to the board members for his vote to be counted. Sorry to interrupt.

Hope you're dressed, Randy. He doesn't feel good. Well, I don't know what he's he told me. He doesn't feel good. Yeah. Um, yes.

There he is. There we are. There you are. Longer. Yes. Thank you. Shaker. Yes. Yes. Webster, yes. Yes. I didn't put him out of his misery now. So, for it being a subdivision, uh, the surveyor does have the plat here. So, we'll need the president and secretary to sign off on that before you leave. Bring it bring it up, I suppose. Got to know that.

Um, so getting into the next case, 2025-15 CS again. Uh, the request the applicant is seeking to waiver from the requirement to install sidewalks on the property. Uh here is the uh site plan itself uh showing the uh proposed driveway being on the northand side or on the west side as far north as possible to be able to locate it there. Um we showcase this layout just to give you an idea of what they're proposing. Um, but to better reference this map, which showcases over one mile in distance as the crow flies between the furthest sidewalk associated with the city of Plymouth, um, supposed to input the data

that's on the opposite side of 30 and has no connection point to this subject property, which is why they're here for the waiver. Um, again going through the pictures, looking southbound on Queen Road into the subject property and panning down at 30 itself and then panning the properties on your eastand side and then looking back towards Plymouth and the industrial complex. So for the analysis under article 6190, the ordinance requires development to install public sidewalks along public streets unless an exception is granted by the commission. Upon review of the proposed project and its location, not near nor adjacent to public utilities to require sidewalks would not make sense. Several projects have recently received waiverss for construction timeline for the Oak Road region, but this proposal is contextually different. The closest point from the eastern new property line to western termini of Miller Drive and its associated sidewalk is more than one mile apart as the crow flies and on opposite side of US30 with little to no development in between. So for recommendation based on information provided and reviewed by staff it is recommended to support slapprove the proposed waiver now is up for plan commission determination. Any questions for staff? So is there any conditions attached to the waiver recommended by staff?

There's not. you're looking at municipal development within that region, you're looking a considerable amount of time or a lot of development occurring in a very shorter period of time. We didn't know they put a a put the store out there either, right?

So, I'd say it's an association with how the policy is written. doesn't necessarily consider the difference between what is municipal property development within municipal boundary versus what is within two mile space and what's being developed at that space. This is legitimately the furthest extent within the two mile heading west uh for the city to have some sort of regulation over because as we mentioned earlier um if you were on the westand side of Queen Road it would be the county jurisdiction

and they wouldn't have any sidewalk requirements for that project. But because it's within Plymouth jurisdiction and it references all development, all development doesn't care whether it's within the corporate boundary or within the two-mile. So I didn't have any additional conditions. I guess the question is why shouldn't it?

[clears throat] You're just posing you're just making that as a question as a condition of your vote. No, I So I guess what I'm saying is on Rook Road, we were granting these waivers because he said it was contextually different,

but we were granting the waivers based on getting the rightway to put the sidewalk in. Yeah. Well, this one doesn't have any waivers attached. I mean, we're just granting a waiver. Okay. If we so choose. You're okay. Correct. Yeah. You're Yeah. But does the C Okay. That's a county road.

And a county road extends from the center line to where? So if there if if in the if the big if if in the future there had to be a sidewalk there, there is easement along that or there is right of way, is it there? Because a county road is different than a city road. County roads are usually somewhere between 33 and 40t wide depending on when they were dedicated and what have you. And the and the aren't the legal descriptions for lots along a county road extend from the center line of the road? Historically, a lot of historic And so description extend from the center line of the road. I believe so.

Yes. So, so there would be room for a sidewalk. The sub the subdivision plaque calls for 25 ft basically from the center line of the road 25 ft back into the property as right away. Correct. Hi. Sorry. So that would be from the point of beginning measuring outwards. Correct. But I don't know if I would call that the center line of the road. Not all roads are within the center of the sometimes the road lines inside the that one looks a little

they don't always pay right in the center. Paving and machinery wasn't always straight and narrow many many months ago. I know what Dan's asking is if in the future there was a need for a sidewalk. It sounds to me like there is room for a sidewalk. There would be some room, I would imagine. Now, what is the topo begin to look like? What's the utilities? What's everything else begin to look like?

Right. Right. that can get very muddy. To me, it's contextually different between the Queen Road project for this and the Oak Road projects because Oak Road is currently under design and review on what do we as a city want to put in to that given space as a reallocation or right away. Whereas there are no plants or are no seam development outside of the Dollar General to be located in that zone or that region, let alone there's no additional development within that space to be able to connect anything to or from.

But isn't the point of us changing the ordinance so that sidewalks are the default so that they're there when somebody wants to develop? So we don't have to go back and do the back fill that we are having to do on over road.

Yes. But in terms of the timing on this development, that portion of the road, at least East and West Queen Road, the frontage road is a deadend road that goes into Marsh. So it's not going anywhere. So unless the county is willing to develop sidewalks as you head west on Plymouth Leaport or their half of Queen Road as you head north, you're asking individuals to cross the road at Queen and 30, right? Let alone what do you what do we know is going to happen at Queen and 30 with the Propel project

or something is developed to the north side of this dollar? it would have to go through the BCA and everything else. Correct. Outside of a Dollar General or something very very similar, I would not foresee a whole lot being developed within that space. Um, only because of the unknowns that are coming with the Propel project are going to or not limit access. So that big question mark is going to have a a huge unfortunate factor to a lot of potential development that could come into that area. So it's a lot of speculation into that piece.

I know. But I think I think on one level like philosophically if we if we keep on letting development happen without sidewalks even the possibility exists. I I just I'm struggling with just giving yet another waiver. given the situation. We have the sidewalk king right here. Thought that would ask you a lot of questions about sidewalks because every time something is put in, we ask for sidewalks. That's right. So, what's your question?

I don't I don't see any other development out there. And I think this is a mute point at this situation. I I I don't think the majority of us will live long enough to see other development out that way. And possibly the the uh closing of that road could become a true reality. Yeah. Right. What's the uh life? How long do concrete sidewalks generally last until they crumble?

About a year. I'm just wondering if if they were to put them in, would they need to be redone before sidewalks out there? Well, there's no trees, so they got that going. That helps. Yeah, that's beneficial. Salt will have an impact. Proximity to roadway will have an impact. So whether or not she's just saying it uh drainage a lot of factors so some factors will see it as a benefit some will see as a detractor

year-wise I couldn't give you a good speculation on that just curious I didn't take any engineering courses and longevity of concrete or like similar products. I have a house I've lived in for 50 years and there still this original sidewalks. There's very few cracks and so it could last. It could last. All right. So, do we have to open this up public here? You do. Uh, okay. I believe the applicant's also here. Okay. You able to answer any additional questions on those lines?

They can vote for you. You want to get him up here first? You can come up here before and then I'll make the motion [clears throat] do you have anything else you want to add? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Not yet. Once again, Dave Peters with Chandlin Associates. We're the surveyor on this project. Um, basically our thoughts were just, uh, since there are no connecting sidewalks really anywhere near here, we just thought it might be an unnecessary maintenance issue. Um, if they're just kind of sitting out there not getting used and getting covered over grass and everything else. Um, but you know, we understand that's your your ordinance. Uh, and so that's why we're proposing a waiver. Um, but basically just a maintenance issue on our end.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Make a motion we open it up for public hearing. Second. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. All right. Does anyone from the audience have a anything opinion a yayness? Yes or no? There being none, do I make a motion to close the public hearing? Second.

It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. Uh, I [clears throat] know this has nothing to do with the vote, but I have one question. Stand, do they allow golf carts on county highways? I can't totally answer that. They're running around. They are running around inside. I don't stray on the roads. There's a difference between golf carts and and and uh uh uh like gators. And I can't tell you the difference, you know, what they allow out there. I don't have one. I've never paid attention to it.

My my my that's my my main concern is is that they're going to be uh if they do allow it and and I just about can guarantee you that once that store opens, they're going to be going up and down that and you have the golfers that's going out to the academy and I see the I see people [clears throat] fly down that road like it's unbelievable. I I I don't think it matters if you allow it or not. people are going to come down here from Jelly Stone to it and state they don't know it. Yeah. That's that's just my opinion. I don't It's just going to be a hot place. That's all I got to say. Ready?

Yep. I make a motion we approve PC25-15 uh request for a sidewalk except Yeah. exception at the new proposed property. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. It's been moved and seconded. Any other question there? We will vote by roll call, please. Essibly, no. Longer, no. Pickerton, yes. Shaver, no. Court, yes. Sellers. Uh, yes. Webster, yes.

Wendell, yes. Peace, yes. 73 is approved. So, that would be 73 and that's approved. So, those are our two items of the agenda. Believe the next item is building commissioner updates. Nothing this evening for that. That is a tiny window. I I do have I do have a question. When are we going to get our parking lot back over here? When is it safe and

how how soon are we are we looking to get it? You you will not have access once it's paved and striped.

I defer to the attorney. So, you may have noticed that they are doing concrete work right now and the um um excavators will be working on the alley uh starting any day now. Um the concrete should be done by next week. The paving is scheduled for November 13th to the 18th, but the parking lot, the alley will reopen after that, but the parking lot will remain closed until the construction is completed on the town houses. That's still expected to be around the end of November. We don't have an exact date yet. Okay.

The parking lot will be reopened once the construction is finished and the townhouse project is open. My my question was I was downtown yesterday. I could park anywhere, run in the street, anywhere around I I'm pulling in today and I'm circling the block and it's like every It's like it's uh uh either nickel beer night or Christmas and November, one or the other. Every place is parked full. It's fantastic to see that much activity downtown, isn't it? I just I was surprised because you just don't usually see it at night. And I said I'm down here Monday and there's you can get any parking place you want up and down all all the street.

Depends on the time of day and what activities are going on. But yeah, to answer your question, um as far as we know, the uh the project is still expected to be completed around the end of November. And once it's done, the parking lot will reopen. Basically, our next meeting, hopefully the parking lot will be open. Hopefully you'll be able to park there. If not, it'll be your next meeting March or April. I

Well, it'll be paved. Like I said, it's scheduled to be paved um in a couple of weeks, but they won't open the parking lot up to the public until the construction is completed because we don't want public parking to interfere with the construction traffic coming in and out. I I say that not only for you but also for the benefit of the public who may be listening or following along because the more often I repeat it, the more likely people are to remember what I said. Are you sure? No, I I say things I repeat things a lot and people still forget. But I try.

Um no significant comprehensive plan update uh this evening. Uh we do have one other item for other business. It's your 2026 calendar. Um, we went through and we took a look at the upcoming first Tuesday of the month. Uh, Kyle did catch the November 4th or the November 3rd date is the election next year for 2026. Uh, so we pushed it just like we've had in the past to Wednesday, the following day to November 4th. Um, I went to the primary also the first Tuesday after the first Monday in May, which is primary day. So, the fifth. Yeah, got it. They're coming back.

I don't have eyes in the back of my head. We got we got the big election in November, but I came back and wanted to see if you guys wanted to also move the May 5th meeting to May 6th to similarly coordinate with the uh primary election as well. Done in the past forever. So, had it on the primary election night. Just know we've moved to the next meeting as well as long as I've been on here. Yeah. You've been on longer than I have. So, Doug, I propose that we accept the calendar as presented. Okay. To including the May 6th. Yeah. The corrections that you made with the May 6th adjustment as discussed, right?

Um the second portion to that was looking at moving the current meeting time from 7:00 p.m. to 6 p.m. It would align with the uh City Board of Works. Um, and then the BCA, we would look to um, ask them as well to move that to 6:30 as well, which again falls in line with the city council meetings in terms of their time frames. Well, what does that have to do with anything [laughter] really? I mean, it falls in line, but we're not requesting you to meet any sooner than anybody's other board within the city.

Yeah, it can. I I think the biggest consideration is for city staff who have to be at I mean we we're happy to see you once a month, but we're here more nights than we're not for different meetings and lining up the times makes it a lot easier on our schedules to keep them consistent and also to get out of here at a reasonable time because Ty and I have been in the building since uh pretty early this morning. I I think that's the major consideration. Wouldn't you agree, Kyle? It's a little easier to line things up last year. It It also gets us out of here, too. Yeah.

It helps us. So, it was brought up briefly when I came on in December, January. The biggest issue that Ralph brought up previously was flipping the meetings to have the BZA meet before the plan commission. Um, that was really the motivation at at this point. I don't think that's the recommendation or the request. It's just to uh move it up an hour so that we can get it in that motion last year is to start earlier. Now, you can make that motion again if you like. And I'm having another kid next month, so I won't get any sleep anyway. So,

that's true. We've all been there, but it's been a long time ago. Just forget. So, we've got the dates established and now it just kind of comes down to a decision on your part on whether or not you want to stick with the seven o'clock or move forward to the six o'clock. Not a fall back, spring forward kind of thing twice a year, but you know, just once. I move we move the meeting time to 6 pm. Second. [clears throat] Isn't that when we eat? Are you serving dinner? Yeah.

Okay. Dinner after one. It's one day a month. You're make a motion to I'm sorry. We do have a motion and we have a second. Um I guess we'll vote by roll call. Essley. Yes. Longer. Yes. Pinkerton. No. Webster. Safer. Yes. Seport. Yes. Sellers. Yes. Webster.

Yes. Wendell. Yes. Peace. No. two. I mapped that correctly in my head. 10 total, two nos, eight yeses. Eight passes. Yay. Yeah. So, your meeting calendar is shown here with the adjustment from May 5th to May 6th. And of course, for the primary election, and then the meeting time will be moved to 6 p.m. So, we'll make sure we have that calendar uh open and ready for you guys for next year. Um, that is everything we have this evening. Now, this begins January, right?

This begins in January, correct? Your December meeting is locked in, I believe it's the second if memory serves me correctly, but please refer to your calendars. First Tuesday, 7 p.m.

All right, second. Fred, you're out. Well, uh, make a motion to adjurnn. Second. Been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I. Do we want to take a more special?

Okay. Excellent. I'm calling the November 4th, 2025 meeting of the board of zoning appeals to order. We'll begin with roll call. Garner here. Giving here. Richie's absent. Wendell here. Jacobs here. Thank you. The minutes of the last regular business meeting of October 7th, 2025 were distributed to the board members via email or mail. Are there any corrections? If not, I'll entertain approval for the minutes as presented or entertain a motion approval of the minutes with corrections. Motion to approve the minutes as as they are. As they are. I have a motion to accept. Second. I have a second. All in favor say I.

I. I. Any opposed? I All right. First on the agenda for is BCA BZA 2025-9. I Okay. So, a couple of you were here last time. Um I'm going to run through the presentation one more time and then I'll explain why we're back here. Is representative here? He's not here. Oh, see. Thank you.

Okay. So, we're going to run through this presentation and then I'll give the explanation and the updates. So, we have uh BCA 2025-9 Johnson Gary and Heather J. Uh husband and wife 12515 Meadow Drive, Plymouth, Indiana 46563. Variance of use to permit backyard chickens on the property at partial 503294 triple 093 triple000018 located at 12515 Meadow Drive Plymouth Indiana 46563 zoned R2 suburban residential district. So the request was for a varance of use to allow backyard chickens on parallel 5032 940 0930018 located at 12515 Meta Drive Plymouth Indiana. Here's the subject property. And then we pull the subdivisions layer on beacon. The site plan is shown and you can see there's the uh primary structure for the residents and then they have two wing retaining walls and the coupe is located within those two retaining walls. Uh these are the original pictures as you can tell by the green trees before fall took over. And we have pictures of the chickens in the coupe. There's at least one chicken I can see. Uh for the analysis, the applicant is seeking to permit and prove the use of backyard chickens on the property. They are proposing to have up to eight chickens and specifically in the eggs and chickens would not be for sale. The site plan provided indicates that the variance would be located between the two retaining walls on the west side of the house. The chickens will be used for their personal egg consumption along with an educational opportunity for the children. Uh there's no desire for a rooster. Uh he is committing to proper waste management, odor control, noise band to ensure that chickens are not a nuisance. The chickens will be confined

to my property at all times. The waste is planned to be used in their garden that they are in preparations for and estimate to be about an acre in size. The Johnson residence is an approximate 3.31 acre parcel at the dead end of Meadow Drive that includes a pond uh per beacon mapping system subdivisions layer. The subject parcels outside of the Oakrest edition and Webster Hillside Manor subdivisions. The property is also found outside of but partially adjacent to the city's corporate boundaries. The parcel is zoned R2 suburban residential district like many other adjacent properties around it, but those adjacent properties are approximately point4 acre in size. The R2 district is characterized as low to medium density residential areas developed beyond the core neighborhoods around Plymouth downtown. Characteristics of development in this category are comparatively largesized lots. Uh curve curve linear streets and the use of culde-sacs. Uh these areas are dominated by single family residential development but also include schools, parks, uh smallcale churches or institutional facilities. The uh new residential growth will occur in this category as Plymouth expands outward into existing rural areas. Uh there is a county tile that runs alongside the southwestern corner of the property on the opposite side of the pond. Now for the decision criteria that's being based on the decision this evening is the general welfare adjacent property, practical difficulty, unnecessary hardship, and the comprehensive plan. Criteria one, the proposed use of backyard chickens is in moderation and using best practices should not be injured to the public health, safety, and general welfare. Per criteria number two, the use and value of adjacent property may be impacted depending on the amount and care of those chickens. Uh the strict application of the ordinance would not permit the proposal based on the base of zoning. The strict

application would not permit the proposal and the comprehensive plan through the future development character map supports suburban neighborhood that land use classification preserves PL uh preserves Plymouth charm while accommodating the needs and preferences of property owners. It also promotes a balanced approach. Uh the suburban neighborhood character area ensures that Plymouth character thrives while catering to modern preferences seamlessly blending comfort and community. So for the recommendation based on information provided and reviewed by staff, staff recommends approval of the backyard chickens but up to only six hens on a 3acre parcel with the following conditions. The use is limited to female chickens only. No roosters. The keeping of the chickens shall be limited to non-commercial purposes. The chickens shall remain confined by either a coupe or run. Uh coup shall maintain a minimum of two to three square feet per chicken and run shall maintain a minimum of 5 to seven square feet per chicken or as best practices suggest for both structures in the industry. Uh confinements are recommended to be set in a location but may be mobile provided in any of the instances that they meet the minimum setback requirements of the zoning district and not permitted in the front yard. Uh manure storage shall maintain adequate covering and shall not be any less than double the setback distance of the zoning district requirements. The confinement uh coupe and run shall be designed and constructed in a way that works to prevent animals from getting in or out. uh confinement shall be open to periodic inspection by the city of Plymouth zoning and administrator or designate. Then goes up for board determination with stash recommendations with conditions. Now what brings us here tonight? Uh previously at the October 7th meeting, uh three board members were in attendance. Two members uh from the public spoke up and against the project uh with concerns over coyotes uh

maintenance of the property and animal disposal. Four letters were read in the record against the proposal as well and concerns of maintenance of the property, property waste disposal, wildlife impact and future value impact. Uh the final vote during the meeting um on on the October meeting was 2 to1 to deny. Uh but that failed due to the unanimous of the three members in attendance. Um in order to make official action, a decision must be made by a majority of the entire board of zoning appeals membership, not just those in attendance. Meaning that when you have three individuals in attendance at a meeting itself, it must vote three one direction or the other for an action to take place. otherwise that uh case has to be tabled on to the next meeting uh in order to accomplish anything. Um this is different than many other boards um within the governmental sphere where it can be determined by a majority of attendance. The board of zoning appeals is not written that way in statutory code. And so therefore um for any decision to occur on the five member board, three have to go one way or the other or it can be upwards from there. 4050 3132 whatever it may be, but three have to vote one direction or the other for a project or against a project in order for something to occur. So So that kind of why we're back in this situation. Um, we went back out, we took some additional pictures, uh, seeing that they've removed the chickens from the property itself, uh, some additional contextual pictures for reference. Um, and that's concluding the board determination with staff recommendations with the conditions, nothing having changed, but just an explanation of why this case is back in front of you and providing additional context that's happened between the two meetings. Questions for staff? So, hypothetically, if the vote on this is 22 against the night, we'd be back in December for it

again, too. You can continue to vote until you figure out a three or have or you can table it. Um, let me come back again in December.

I I should add, obviously, this was my mistake last month. Thanks for letting me fall on that, Art. Um, like Tai said, you uh it requires a majority of the total membership, not just a majority present. But the mistake that I made was that you are required to take an action either approving or denying. So what we did last month with a 2 to1 vote is we said it was not a majority of the total membership. So the motion to approve failed. Uh that is what's not allowed. you have to either approve or deny or like Tai said, if you cannot reach a um a majority of the membership decision to [snorts] take final action, then you will be required to table the item until you can get five members here and take an action.

Thanks. So, moving forward from this point in time, um you're within your 30-day window of having your public hearing having been held on October 7th. So, within the 30-day window, you do not have to call for an additional public hearing. Uh so, you're able to talk yourselves, go over any different aspects um in attendance on other individuals that are here um from the neighborhood there. Um is the applicant that's here. I'm sure she'd be willing to answer any questions or anything along those lines. Um, and I would recommend having the applicant come up and have that conversation. Um, but also here this evening after having reached out to me, our county extension agent is also here this evening to be able to provide any additional information or clarification um, from that perspective as well.

Okay. I think since you weren't here, I'd like to go through the whole process again. Yes, you guys weren't here. So, let's go through the whole process, have a clear mind on what we're doing, and then make a decision. Is that okay with you? That's fine with me. There's plenty of people here, and I want to give them a chance. I agree. So, last go from there. I will. All right. Will the petitioner please uh step forward to the podium? Please state your name and address for the record. Hi, good morning. Um, my name is Heather Johnson and I'm at 12515 Plymouth Meadow Dry Clement. Thank you. Uh, thank you for removing the chickens and following through with what we talked about. I do appreciate that.

Yes, it was our understanding that we were in county um section. We had no we we recently moved. We were not told anything about a 2-m variant or radius that applied to the city. So once we found that out, we wanted to do the right thing and bring it and try to correct the situation. Thank you. Appreciate that. Does anybody have questions? I mean, we've talked before. Do you guys have any questions about what they're wanting to do?

Are you from what the recommendation was? Are you comfortable with not freeranging those chickens, keeping them pinned? Yeah, we have a big enough pins big enough to meet the five square foot per bird. Yeah, we are fine with keeping them in their coupe, keeping them safe, keeping them get a good look at your coop. Is it on wheels? Can it be totally? No, it's not on wheels. You can't move it. Not unless we take it apart and move it. Okay, good. Thank you. I think it's clear. Good. All right. Um, if there's more questions for the applicant, I'll entertain a motion to open up the public hearing.

I move to open up a public hearing. Second. I have a first and a second. All in favor indicate by saying I. I. Um, I now declare the public meeting open. So, if there's anybody in the audience that would like to speak in favor of the proposal, please step forward to the podium and state your name and address for the record. So, if you're in favor of

Hello. Hello, I'm Tisha Pletcher. Tim Pletcher. Address 12488 Meadow Drive. We basically live kind of caddy corner, but our property is in front of there. Gotcha. Um, we didn't even know they had them, so they were never a problem. Um, I'm strongly in favor of people being able to raise their own eggs, raise their own food on their own property, especially if you have three acres. There's no reason I can see why we're even limited to six. I mean, they had eight. I don't I don't see why. What two going to make? Sure.

Um, but yeah, we're definitely in favor of them being able to have their chickens. Thank you. Appreciate that. Anybody else in the audience or online that would like to speak in favor of the proposal? You have the online people, just Randy. Uh, and Debbie. Yeah, you can come on up. All right. Brianna Soniker, agriculture and natural resources extension educator from Marshall County. Um, work for Purdue Extension. Your home and address? Um, 10789 State Road 17 Plymouth, Indiana 46563. Thank you.

Um, so kind of I'm either for or against. I'm here to present some facts um for you guys for this case. Um, when considering uh chickens within town limits, there are many towns across Indiana, um, Midwest, across the country that do have variances and do allow this or ordinances that do allow um, chickens for backyards. As long as chickens are properly maintained, um there really shouldn't be any issues with um chickens being under control, getting out of their um homes or getting odor issues as well. Um I believe it was recommended by Tai that there was a 3ft by 3 ft space um per chicken for um this proposal and that is more than adequate um amount for that chicken to live. As far as it being freerange, they're not they're not caged or anything like that. So, they are technically considered freerange. Um, and and it does meet animal welfare standards for those chickens.

So, in a pin on the ground, right, still considered free range? Yep. Absolutely. As long as it's not a cage and they are afraid to walk, spread their wings. These aren't they're in a cage. No, they're not. They're not like tradition being in a cage, they would not be able to walk or spread their wings. Gotcha. Yes, clear.

So, do you guys have any questions for me at this time? One thing I would kind of like to address um for you guys to think about as well is waste management. Um I noticed within the um recommendation, it did say planning on keeping manure for a garden. Um obviously during the winter there is um going to be waste. Um so what are storage plans for that? um as long as it is like outside to the open air, not closed off, not super damp or anything like that, there shouldn't be any odor issues. Um but it is a good idea to have a general idea of what that might look like, especially since there is a pond on that property.

So your your recommendation would be to have some during the winter some kind of enclosed storage for that. Not necessarily enclosed for the waste, not covered so it doesn't get damp and Yeah. moist. When it gets damp and moist and has no flow, what would you that look like?

Um, it could have a tarp over it, something like that. It could be like a little lean to um off of the side of the chicken coop, something that would keep it well maintained, adequate air flow, no moisture, and that will help with any odor issues, which there shouldn't be with that little amount of chickens. They made a recommendation for six verse eight. give us an idea of what what does what do you say we should have for chickens if somebody has an acre two acres three acres

um as far as chickens go um number-wise as long as there's adequate space it's 3 foot by 3 foot per chicken so if they have the space um to have you know 20 chickens within that space requirement go for it are there nuisance nuisances to chickens around when you have neighbors and stuff. Is there anything that you would see as an issue? Um [sighs and gasps] besides that, I know we've talked about dogs are properly contained and housed, which um according to the recommendations on what is being proposed. Um that should be adequate as far as any dogs or cats getting into it. Okay. Coyotes.

Coyotes, same thing. I mean, a dog, coyote, they're related. Um same instincts as far as that goes. So, but with the housing that is there um recommended that's going to be your best suitable housing. Gotcha. So, as long as they stay within their enclosure. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions? I don't. Well, if you do, we'll ask you. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Y anybody else in favor of Please step forward.

If not, is there anybody in the audience like to speak against the proposal? If so, please step forward. State your name and address. And he's on still. Um, question. Did anything go out again? A letter A letter did go out again that this was coming back up, right? So, everybody's been informed. I just want to make sure of that. I knew we got it at the gun club, so I knew it did go back. No new letters arrived. I did not receive any. Um, and you gave the information in there of what we did get before. So, that's good. All right. There's nobody that's here to speak against. Um, applicant, do you have any more anything you would like to add? Can I actually ask about winter disposal of that waste? Um,

yep. Come on. Sure. When the garden's not active. Okay. So, for our waste, we're pro we're going to we're planning on composting and getting that air and some of that is going to be mixed in with dirt and grass clippings and different things like that. So, it will be mixed and covered and no moisture will get into it. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have a dedicated spot for that already? Um, we are waiting. We were trying to figure out what was going to happen with this before we designated another thing toward it. So, we're waiting to till we could have our chickens before we could designate that spot. Gotcha.

That can be part of the city's inspection then at all. That's what I was going to ask. How do we how do we Well, first off, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. So, I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I. I. Motion carries. One of the questions I had, Dennis, that's hard. How do you how do we manage this? And we have others that do have it. How do we manage it if they're chickens in neighbors yards that stink? Can you handle that? Is that something that if you get a complaint? If if a neighbor calls in and makes a complaint, then I would probably go out and do the inspection.

So, they fill out a report and then they would feel give it to you and you'd go address it and look at it. Okay. Correct. Thank you. And if I can't make it, I can delegate it to Tai. [laughter] You guys have any other questions around that? Okay.

Just a quick comment on that. Uh are um with that in the recommendation portion um the seventh condition um is that the confinement shall be open to periodic inspection by the city of P zoning administrator or designate. So if we do end up having an issue for a code violation or anything along those lines, we're essentially requesting the ability to go out and confirm or deny with that aspect. Uh variances are just like any other development standard that are associated with a project. Um say you're doing a setback reduction. When you're going through the building permitting process through uh with a building permit, you're going through and you're reviewing does it does it not meet the traditional standards and if there's a separate standard that came through the BCA, making sure that that's been applied for and taken care of within that site planning aspect. But just like every other uh development standard that doesn't necessarily have a building permit associated with it, you as a citizen of the city of Plymouth within the two-mile jurisdiction of the city are required to follow the zoning ordinance or any of the uh variances that are associated with that property. And if there is a violation of that ordinance, it follows the code enforcement process and kind of goes down that tree of webs. Just a harder part that we have that we for followup we've had before. That's why I asked the question.

So confinements in that language is the whole project, not just the coupe be the coupe, the run and the associated pieces to that. Uh typically it's going to be mostly the coupe and the runs. Um but if there's something that's associated with it, make sure that's covered under that. If there's in addition to the conditions that are laid out by staff that you would want to make sure that's within any vote that you may make, making sure that you list out what you want into uh that case. Got because what you don't put in your motion does not exist. That can be a great conversation leading into it, but what lives and dies is the motion.

Well, that's a question for me now. You and Dennis came up with six verse eight. Why six, not eight? After hearing from this young lady here, I just uh just looking into the different research aspects and coming up with okay, if they're looking at eight and we're looking to a smaller number, we can look at compromising to a six or um looking into what the research is showing on here's the approximate size. Let's start here. If it's going well and you want to come back and you want to do more, we can come back and do more later, but let's good basis. If they came back in three months, say six, because it'll be coming spring,

uh they they don't have to wait a year to come back then because we've approved their approve or denied their motion. I thought they have to wait a year before they can come back in front. If you want to come back, if you want the same exact request, then yes, you have to wait a year. But if you make an adjustment to that request to improve its liability or the ability to be approved, whatever it may be, that is a different request that's coming in at that point in time. Okay, that would be my interpretation of it. We'll follow his. That'd be good. I don't know if you want to take my advice, but thank you. Is this piece of property in the subdivision? No, it is not a part of the subdivision.

Okay, so now the other question. So it's we have a restriction on chickens in subdivisions. Okay. Okay. So we get beyond that hurdle because it's not technically in the subdivision. Correct. It's not a lot of the subdivision. Okay. Um but I'm not aware of that either because we've allowed them in subdivisions. We did one time but we since then we made a rule that prohibits chickens in subdivision. BCA did or somebody else plant mission. Okay. Well, thanks. I didn't know that. So, what we did is uh we made an amendment to allow for chickens in the R1 rural

district except in a platted subdivision. Right. Right. So, in like where I live, you cannot have chickens because it's R1, but it's a platted sub. You can't have chickens by right. So, you So, my subdivision, I couldn't have chickens. He's going to be in with city limits. Yeah. So you're you're my county though I have a I only part of the league. So there's by right and there's variance. They are pursuing a variance to permit.

So so the amendment that allows chickens in the R1 district um would not apply to you because it accepts platted subdivisions. So, [snorts] no, you could not have chickens without a variance. My kids out. All right. Oh, you were trying to make me the bad guy earlier.

Okay, good. Anybody have any more discussion for him? Any more discussion for Ty? Anybody? Okay. Um, if there's no more discussion at this time, I'll entertain a motion for approval, denial, or other recommendations. And remember, if you make a recommendation, make it clear and specific, please. I feel good about um criteria established. So, I'm going to make a motion to approve with the um constraints that the city has put on them. So, six chickens. Yes.

So, the recommendation as recommended by staff was six chickens. Anything on manure? Everything that was already written in that recommendation, I'm good with presented. Okay. I have a motion for as stated. Second. I have a second. Roll call. Garner. Yes. Gibly, yes. Wendle, yes. Jacobs,

yes. I'd like to add that last month I did vote no, but after listening to the young lady and some of the other additional information tonight that changed my mind. So, I just wanted to make sure I put that out there. Thank you for the following through with not, you know, getting, you know, doing something with the chickens until we got them out. That means a lot to me. Thank you. Appreciate it. Ty, then next on the edge, you can you have to stay for the next one, too. You can leave. All right. The next one is BZA 2025-20. Is that your findings?

Okay. So, now we're on to BZA25-20. Cats uh Lawrence Cats and H I couldn't do that on the previous HDJ.

HDJ Investments LLC 207 East Marcus Street, Indiana 46550. A variance of development standard to allow for a poll sign in the R1 district at a new proposed property located at 7794 Queen Road, Plymouth, Indiana. 46563 identified as parcels 50412600260017 and 50412600550017 zoned R1 rural residential district uh for the request of variance and development standard to allow for a poll sign in the R1 rural residential district on um for the most partial 15412600260017 located at 7794 4 Queen Road, Plymouth, Indiana. Um, the reason for the multiple parcels and those sorts of things is until the subdivision was approved earlier, it's and still it only exists as two separate parcels, it won't get officially into a singular parcel until the plat has been recorded and gone through that process. So, here's a subject property. Subject um driveway is going to be pushed as far north as possible. And you got the um Dollar General sitting in the majority of the middle of the parcel with parking lot being uh fronting towards uh Queen Road frontage and US30. They're having a poll sign that's going to be going in the corner uh in the southwest corner. Um because commercial development is not permittable within the R1 district without a variance. They've already received that under BCA16. So because commercial is not permitted within the R1 district, commercial signage byproduct is not typically found within that same zoning district. That's how our sign classification system goes is based on the zoning district and sign type. So when we went out, we took some

pictures of the property uh looking towards uh the south towards the intersection. Um, we took some pictures of the property and as we got down towards the intersection, we wanted to be able to look across and take a look at what signage is across the street for the couple businesses that are there, including the old gas station and the property that's kind of gone through several different iterations on um, sales. And then we have the west side of Queen Road where there are several church signs uh signed for the Swan Lake and its associated restaurant as well as a couple other um businesses uh that are all located along this uh farmway. And then you've got the subject property here and painting here you would see the Dollar General sign um that would be proposed. Uh we do not have any renderings or anything along those lines at this point for that, but I would imagine it'd be pretty close to what you see elsewhere. The applicant is seeking to permit a pole sign. The R1 residential district, a rural residential district. Pull signs are only permitted within the C1 or C3 and I industrial districts. Uh the business itself was approved previously under a different BCA case earlier this year. The separation of the two proposed variances is common for projects to establish use before pursuing any additional variances if necessary. Uh the project would be required to comply with other sections of the zoning ordinance unless applicable variances are pursued and approved by the board itself. Uh for decision criteria and the only decision criteria you're able to make decisions on tonight include the general welfare adjacent property and practical difficulty for this case. Now for finding number one, the proposal should not be in interest to the public health, safety, and general welfare depending on the size of the sign being of average square footage of other Dollar General stores. Uh for finding number two, the use and value of adjacent property should remain minimally impacted because of the sign. And for finding number three, the strict application of the ordinance would not permit the proposal, but the request is on the heels of a use variance approval.

So for recommendation based on the information provided and general description of the proposal, staff would recommend approval. Now, is that for board determination with staff recommendation of approval? Any questions for staff? Ty, if they if we approve this, it's not saying anything about size, but they have to follow our sign ordinance for size. Correct. Correct. So, if they want anything different, they'd have to come back in front. Correct. They're requesting a pull sign, they would have to meet that square footage association. And if they exceed it by one square foot, they can either shrink it or come back in front of you and say, "Hey, we got the poll sign. Thank you very much, but we need to make it a little bit bigger. Gotcha. Dennis, what's the maximum height on a pole sign now?

Is it 12 feet? Is that 20? Is it 20 something? I'm leaning towards 20, but don't quote me. Higher is better than lower from that section. Well, my first thought was we'll just have them make a monument sign. But that monument sign's going to be out there along the road. It could block tra visibility of traffic. So, I guess as much as I hate pole signs, I think having it up in the air is probably better for traffic control than you'd be six in one half dozen in the other at that given location with the limited cross traffic and location of it. Uh it wouldn't be blocking any of the driveways. We have many bad accidents there.

Correct. To the south. Yeah, but still I mean coming across both ways, north to south. But this is in reference to the Plymouth Leaport intersection, not the Queen. Okay. 30 intersection. Okay. So, because it's north of that and you're not interfering in terms of the driveway. Sorry. But this sign's going to be in the southwest corner of the property. So, pretty far from the building, usually closer to the road. Go back to that. Yep.

There we go. So, where the blue is is where the sign's going to be. Yeah, the northwest corner of the blue. It'd be right about where the electrical pole is is what I would be guessing that symbol will shoot. So, if we jump where that electrical box is, I'm willing to bet you'd be going inside of that 15 inside of that. Yeah. Well, in relationship to where that is on the property. Um, yeah. If I'm guessing what the symbols are from this distance on the TV screen and not reading it, well, I would bet you that those symbols are in association with the telecommunications and stop sign.

Yeah, perfect. Anybody else have any questions for Tai? Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it. I think here as well to be questions.

I will. Will the petitioner represent please step forward to the podium and please state your name and address for the record. Hello, Dave Peters, 4152 Progress Boulevard, Peru, Illinois. Um, so yeah, as uh as spoken about, um, being that this is off a divided highway, uh, we're requesting a pole sign. If this were u in a more urban setting, it would be a monument sign, lighted monument sign on the ground. Um, but for uh vis visibility sake off uh US30, we feel that a pull sign would be perfect for this location. Anybody have questions?

I'm just curious, how does the Is there a new developer in this project? What the guy in West the company from West Plains, Missouri? How are they involved? So, they're they're the developer. We were the surveyor on the project. I'm just representing them tonight essentially because I'm closer distance. Okay. It's easy for me to get here. Thank you. So, the owner of the property is going to be the developer in West Plains. Yes, sir. Uh, well, let me see. Unless they've already got a buyer.

Yeah. The property owner is the current owner is the Cats and HDJ Investments out of Napony. Uh, and we're applying on their behalf. And then how does West Plain how does the developer in West Plains, Missouri figure is he going to be the ultimate owner of the property? Yeah. Right. We we'd be the buyer of the property from the current owner. Yes. Doesn't we make the original variance for the West Plains owner? Correct. They're the buyer. ACJ owns it current. We've been making it for the person wanting to buy it to make sure it goes through and then they will buy it, which is the West Plains.

Yes. Right. But you're in communication with them so they know. Okay. Mhm. Through the surveyor record. Yep. Yep. I'm here on their behalf. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion to open up a public hearing. So moved. Second. Motion and a second. All in favor say I. I. I now declare the public meeting open. Is there anybody in the attendance who would like to speak in favor of the proposal? If so, please step forward to the podium. State your name and address for the record. And this is if you're four.

I'm Sheila Sai and I live at 16160 Lincoln Highway in Plymouth, Indiana 46563. Um there has been a permit permitted advertising sign on this property for many years. Mine and most recently under the lease to outfront media. Unfortunately, the structure was damaged during a recent storm. It came down, but I want to make it clear that I intend to maintain the site's lawful use and active INDOT permit. The property is zoned industrial and from what I understand, it lies outside the city limits. The Indiana Department of Transportation regulates outdoor advertising along Lincoln Highway and requires only 300 ft of separation between signs on the same side of the highway. I was informed that the city may be considering placement of a new sign approximately 300 ft from the existing site. I want to be clear that I have no objections to that as long as my site remains recognized as a lawful permitted location under INDOT rules. My goal is simply to preserve the permit and allow for a future sign to be rebuilt or at least again in compliance with the state regulations. And I appreciate you guys' time. And

can you show us on the map where your sign is now? Well, you have a billboard. I have a billboard, but it's actually right now from the storm. So, it's actually You can walk up there and point to it, but is it across the highway? It's across the highway. So, mine's on Lincoln Highway. Mine's across from within 300 feet of this one you're saying. Yeah. I'm just I'm saying it's okay. I just want to make sure that it's in complant with Okay. You know. Yeah. It's not going to affect you and all of a sudden we put this one up and then we tell you you can't have yours, right? That would bother you. [laughter] 300 ft. That was Well, that's what that's You guys had sent me the paper though. That's why I'm here. Good. So, I assume that's

if Yeah. So the 300 feet that's in the letter itself is notifying you that project is within 300 feet or two properties of you. It has nothing to do with sign or the sign that's been there in the past. There's state statute that requires um the city or any other government entity that goes through this process to notify within a certain distance and you fell within that distance. That's why you f it wasn't because of your sign. That's good though. own property along those aspects. Yeah, the grandfathering aspect or legal non-conforming or whatever it may be of your sign is entirely independent of this case.

I can't speak to when it went down or anything along those lines or what time frame is required under INDOT regulations. Yeah, but hold Tai accountable for anything that comes in the shields. Yeah. So, it just you just happen to be within the distance. So I go around and I click everybody within that given distance then everybody within that gets a letter. Yeah. So I didn't know if the laws had changed or anything like that. So every year the you know I'm not really sure. So understand. Thank you. Okay.

Appreciate it. Anybody else in the audience like to speak in favor of? If not, is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak against the proposal? If so, please step forward to the podium and state your name and address. Crickets. Crickets. Yep. I don't see anybody online that wants to say anything. So, at this time, I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing. So, move. Second. So, I have a first and a second. All in favor say I. I.

Okay. Um Iain if there's no additional discussion from the board, I'll entertain a motion from the approval or denial of one question I do have before we do that though. You know, some of the discussion has come about the roadway and what's going to happen out there. That doesn't that doesn't concern us in our vote. I realize that. I'm just curious if we know. Are they going to put an interchange there or something or if I knew what I end up would be doing with different I thought you knew all. I thought you knew all.

I know where to look. But in terms of what is not going to do and when are they going to do it, it's about as anybody's good as guess. Um it's all going to come down to which district is going to be receiving the funding for different projects and kind of where does that begin to come into play. Um all the fun politics of everything that goes into roadway funding. Um so when what does it begin to look like? I couldn't tell you. Um, in terms of what options are on the table, at least based on the propel study, yeah, I can have a conversation about those. But in terms of what it's going to become of three different options,

right? No, I just curious is the options to it get rid of that intersection?

There's different separations that are proposed. Um whether it be keeping full access, reduced access in terms of you're able to cross over but not interact with the main thorough fair being 30 or you're able to have full access with interchange just depending on which direction they go. There's actually a lot of options available at that intersection. If you were to go east or west, your options would change. Um, but based on that study and trying to follow it as quickly as we can. Um, and I know we've had uh contact between the city and the county as it relates to making sure we've had our comments and everything put into the propel study at all three stages of it to make sure that our voices are being heard. Um, making a big push with that. Um, we try to advise everybody that's seeking to do a project within that general region that they know what could or potentially may happen uh so that they have an idea of what kind of um impacts could be coming their way based on those projects.

Gotcha. But if we develop out there probably legitim legitimatizes our claim that we'd want to keep that open if there's more development. It can and it can also make it difficult uh similar to how uh state road 10 and Argus

uh connects with US 31. Um because the cost of property is substantial once developed. Um if it's a flat farm field, it's usually a cheaper cost. Not to say that property has different impacts, but there's additional value once additional value is put into that property. So then do we since it's in a two-mile zone, Dennis, do we have control over uh side by sides, four-wheelers, and stuff running up and down the road? It's not our roadway. Even though it's in a two-mile zone, it's a zoning and building regulation, not a uh roadway regulation. Gotcha. I was just curious, that'll drive a lot more traffic to that area,

right? So that would be a great question with the county commissioners as well as the county sheriff because it'll be under the county sheriff's uh per commissioner regulation the roadways. Gotcha. Thank you. All right. There's no more questions. I'll entertain a motion for approval, denial, or other recommendations. I move we approve the signed request as presented. Second. I have a first and second. Roll call. Garner. Yes. Gibling. Yes. Wendell. Yes. Jacobs. Yes. 40 approved. Yep. So, that moves on to building commissioner updates. Anything you'd like to add? Give us something. Come on.

Hey, Zach. Well, to your comment about side by sides and everything on the road, um, there is actually a state permit that you can get. Yeah, I got them. And with some of the new side bysides, if you file your paperwork properly, you can actually have them licensed as a true motor vehicle. Yeah. So, well, I just know some towns I know some towns and some townships have different ordinances. Like I know Breamman, you have to actually either buy that permit, but then you have to still you they don't make you double pay, but you have to go fill out a um right

paperwork for the city. I don't think we have anything like that, do we? We have regulations for golf carts. We don't have anything specific for side by side. That's good. I'm glad to hear that.

All right. Thank you. Um, so that's it for building commissioner. Uh, last thing I have is other business for your 2026 calendar. For those of you that were here for the planning commission portion, um we discussed the meetings, made the adjustment for November, uh November 3rd would have been the Tuesday. Um but to because that is election year 2026, it's traditionally slid to Wednesday. Uh then likewise, we'd be looking to make the adjustment for the 5th to the 6th in May uh for the primary election as well. um the planning commission upheld having those dates as presented and uh adjusted for May of course and then um that should have actually been I didn't fix that copy and paste should have been 7:30 and 6:30 accordingly not competing time frames is 7 and 6 o'clock we're both here at the same time

we want to keep ours the same time I think we can the one thing about the fourth just so you know we might have I might have a conflict with the fire department a mandatory training But um that's why you have a competent vice president. Yeah. And well, you said competent, but anyways. Um but can we keep the time our time the same at 7:30? Yeah, I'm joking. [laughter] I'll make a wish. It's the board's wishes, but I would recommend adjusting this slide to read 7:30 and 6:30. 6:30 being the proposed time. Um that is my fault on that one.

So we'll be at 6:30 assuming we up that is up to you guys. What do we want to go in front of them at 5:30? Yes. I'm simply here to propose. Does it make logical sense to have BCA before plan commission? Is there any We don't have any. It's six in one half of the other. Honestly, sometimes there's cases that will go long. Yeah. Yeah. Their cases go long. Yeah. That's why I said if we go early Well, we normally go longer than they did or better than they are. Let them push back. I don't care. Whatever you guys want to do at 5:30. Make a motion. What do you guys think? What's best?

Mark's got his reservations then. Well, I the only the only thing I'm Doug Feast he's going to have a hard time getting to the meeting six o'clock is he he he works the guy works late in the evenings you know it's it's going to be a press for him to be here so well he would they were approved but I'm just saying I mean but this might help him I mean if we run over and they don't start till 6 well if we run over and he gets a chance to be late yeah

yeah that's The only hesitancy, nothing against 5:30, the hesitancy is I'm looking at uh what council has set as president and what board of public works has set his precedent as starting at 6:00 and 6:30. So I was looking to simply mirror what they were proposing. Does the park board meet at 6:30 redevelopment commission meets at 5:30 on their meeting days? over. I will do whatever the city needs. I am here to give my time freely with no prejudice to the city. I will do whatever you need because you guys have been so good to me.

Whoa. It's better for you guys. I mean, seriously, make a motion for 6. It does not matter because we have 5:30. We have another meeting already. There are additional boards that meet prior to six. Not on the same day as your meeting. Oh, yeah. [clears throat] I've already made a motion.

I make a motion to approve the 2026 calendar with the meeting time of 6:30. Okay. I'll second that. You want to do a roll call or do you want to just say I? All in favor say I. I. I. Passes. Okay. This is your meeting calendar with the proposed adjustments with the meeting time being 6:30. You send that out. You're we will make sure we get things sent out for the day.

Um your next month meeting. Um I'm anticipating a couple cases. Uh so you will continue to meet at 7:30 in December. on the second because he told me last meeting. It was on the second. Yeah. Other than that, that is everything I had this evening. Okay. Okay. Do you anticipate any chickens? Not to my knowledge. Okay. Good. I entertain adjournment. I move we adjourn. Second. I have a first and a second. All in favor say I. The three of you only