County Commission - Regular Meeting

Hey, good afternoon, everybody.

Call the Ramsey County order. Start off the pledge, please.

Pledge to the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

Good evening, everybody.

First item on the agenda is approval of minutes.

Move to approve. Do we have a motion? Do we have a second? I got a second, but on the second to last paragraph, seconded by commissioner, didn't give a name.

And I didn't go back to look to see what was on the emergency.

Do we have a motion and a second with that? Yeah. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Motion carries. Approval of the agenda that we have in front of us. I'll move to approve. Do we have a motion? Second. We have a motion, we have a second. to approve the agenda that we have in front of us. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Motion carries.

Denton?

Aye. I hand it over to .

Approve budget from last night's . The only two things known over last year, I guess, would be increasing cost of health care. We don't have the exact numbers yet, but we're predicting probably around 10% to 15% again. We've budgeted in 10, and then the board also voted to increase it. Anybody have any questions on the budget that we have from Denton? One thing to mention, too, if you're looking at the mails on the back page, we do not have any counties finalized. It's going to go up a little bit.

We don't have utilities on that number yet. I'm still waiting for that. So the joint meeting will be on October 6th.

That's the promise. Yeah.

the conference hall and before then I'll make sure that everybody has the accurate land value so you see where the mills are at.

They still count their wind power? I don't know what's going on. So the mill levy actually dropped as of right now until we get that. You're looking for a motion to move forward? You said a time for that public hearing? No other major changes? No.

Thank you.

Oh, you don't need to know. No, it's just this is just in front of us so that we know for October six where we're what we're looking at.

And if you do come up with any questions, let me know.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

Kate, Sandy. Mobile career exploration classroom.

Hello, Sandy Shiloh, Executive Director of North Central Planning Council. On June 24th, I had sent a letter in Care of Candy requesting continuation funding for the mobile career exploration classroom. This is a project where the economic development leaders, directors of our six-county region, North Dakota Region 3, it's a project that we came up with in 2023. We applied for regional workforce impact program funding to fund a vehicle. And that grant funding was spent to procure a vehicle and have it reconfigured for a mobile classroom. And we use virtual reality videos to expose high school students to future careers. The intent of the program is to try to keep them in our region or once they receive their education to come back to our region. I brought pictures.

Mm-mm.

I believe most of you were here last year on the commission, except maybe Ed when we were here. And so most of you I think are familiar with the mobile career exploration classroom. We do go out to all the high schools in the region and twice a year, at least twice a year, sometimes more. And the funding request is for the 2027 year. So last year you did approve funding for 2026, and we are halfway through that. We still have the fall of 2026. You can see on the second page of the letter, and I believe you got a copy of the letter, on the second page of the letter is the budget. So the total budget for the one year of operation is 72,859. And that gets split between all six counties. You are our last request and not to pressure you, but the other counties all did approve their funding requests to continue the program. And the other participants are Forward Devil's Lake, Benson County Job Development Authority, Towner County EDC, New Rockford Area Betterment Corporation, Rowlett County, Eddy County, and Cavalier County JDA. And the request to Ramsey County is the $10,634. And you can see the budget there of $72,859.

Do you have any statistics of, since we started this, how many people have come back to the area or to the region that we're supporting? I guess if you want to cover that.

We do not have those numbers, but Ann is here. Ann Poehler is our career coach, and she can speak to the visits with the students and the virtual reality videos.

And then one other question we put in. have we reached out to other counties that are close by?

We don't. It's been a Region 3 project, so we've kept it to the six counties in Region 3. Yeah.

I forgot about that.

Yeah. If we went outside the area, then, I mean, we could limit the amount of time we can spend in the county, in our counties.

Thank you.

And we want to.

Good evening. Ann Pollard, representing North Central Planning for Hope for the Van. It's meant to be as a resource. Like I've seen thousands of kids. So to track every kid, whether they came back, I just don't have that time. So when they're in the van, I typically have six students at a time viewing different resources. There are kids that I know that have done job shadows, that have been set up with work-based learning, that are now utilizing career builder scholarships, but are there specific statistics on how many kids came back to this area or chose to stay in this area because of this resource? No. And again, it's a resource. It's not the solution for workforce or retaining our students. It has to be used with the school and the community and the business and other programs.

All the schools have been very open about this. Yeah.

And some, you know, I go to a lot of like parent teachers conferences sometimes.

Sometimes they'll have reading fairs that are well attended. So some will use me as part of school activities as well.

Yeah, I've seen it. I've actually put the headset on a couple of times.

And like MADOC is a smaller school. And so that school, one of my visits was just sitting down with every one of their juniors and seniors one-on-one talking about their plan, making sure, You know, they had an idea of what college they were going to, what, you know, just kind of rather than just doing a van visit, just sitting down with their juniors and seniors one-on-one saying, okay, how can we help? What's your plan? Are you aware of career builder? Do you need a summer work experience or anything like that? So the schools can utilize the van kind of however they wish.

So how often does your stuff update?

You get new videos pretty much quarterly through CareerView. So we have a subscription to CareerView XR and that's the company that actually creates the 360 videos. And so every quarter we usually get new videos. Not a lot, I would say four to six new videos. So then I just update the headsets every time they come up with new videos. North Dakota Department of Transportation just partnered with them and there's four, like, Highway transportation one is a diesel technician. I don't know all the titles. So those are just coming out now. And I get to get feedback on that too. Like one careers that I get a lot of requests on from students.

I see a lot of trades. Like, is that more than you would think of the four year? I'm just asking because it's such a need.

Yeah, I would say it's more. I mean, There's a lot electrical, there's a lot HVAC, plumbing. I mean, there's a lot of four years too, but I mean, I would say it's probably 60, 40 more trades, yeah. And it also, I mean, it also depends on what grades you're seeing too, because sometimes eighth graders, they dream big and they have a lot of different ideas of what they wanna do, whereas juniors and seniors, And I do encourage, you know, some kids come in and say, oh, I want to do this. You don't have it. Well, what else are you interested in? Because part of that is kids. I mean, think back to your career exploration. Did you know what you wanted to do when you grew up? You know, but they don't even know what's out there. So showing them videos of things that they're not necessarily thinking about, but knowing from just a few questions that they might be have the skill set for and be good at and saying, hey, I suggest this. Maybe they only watch a minute or two of it and they want to move on.

you know trying to get them to look at other things too that they might be good at or have the skill set for great anybody else have any questions no thank you thank you so where do we go with this is this something that we pick a motion

THIS FOR THE BUDGET.

OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MOVING ON TO SIX, BRADY, IF YOU CAN, IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

Okay, commissioners, Brady Ashford, Devils Lake Economic Development. So just formally requesting the release of funds for the 26th fiscal year. Of course, I just want to thank you guys for your continued partnership. From here on out, I think I'd like to start making visits a bit more regular. I was thinking on a quarterly basis that way. It's just all parties are in the loop. Everybody's staying informed. Doesn't feel like anyone's being kept in the dark. So if that's acceptable to you guys, that is something that I'll push to do. But just to kind of get into it, business retention does continue to be a priority along with recruiting new businesses as well. But I feel like taking care of the businesses we already have is equally as important. Some of the projects that I have been working on but also have ideas for have to do surrounding housing. business expansions. I mean, as far as our housing conversations, it has to do with short-term and long-term. So when I say short-term, I don't mean Airbnbs or VRBOs. Short-term has to do with three to six months leases. So interns coming here, maybe teachers are coming to the area I mean, these projects can take months, meetings.

I'm just gonna move on. One of the biggest things that we've done this year is we've run 25, most of the communities, and really those communities have a purpose too.

Sorry. That's good.

We gave our business to those residents and players to do kind of a check-in when there are some concerns or opportunities that they see. And some of the businesses that we've talked to have to do with financial institutions, hospitality, retail, retail companies. But the good news from those conversations is that people are staying optimistic, even though it's kind of a cautious office. When I say a cautious office, there's a good Thank you, sir. All right. from staying proactive instead of reactive.

registration, and I guess that differs from what I said before. So when I say short-term rental registration, I talk about Airbnbs and VRBOs. So we do have a ton of Airbnbs in our county, and the registration process is more so to keep neighbors informed EMS informed, but also it allows us to collect that data and use it for analytical purposes. So this is something that would need to be a city and a County partnership. And I'm hoping down the road, we can work together to do something like that. Um, that idea came to light a couple of months ago. It just, it had to take a back burner for now, but hopefully in the near future, we can start those conversations. But speaking of rentals, housing does continue to be a workforce challenge. From apartments, housing rentals, I was able to do some outreach with some of our apartment managers and owners just to kind of ask for some data. How many beds and baths are in each of your units? If they give it to me, I mean, I do ask, but they charge for rent, more so for in-house analytical purposes. But the big one is, what's your vacancy rate? All of them have waiting lists. I mean, it's insane how many of these companies have waiting lists. So we are trying to encourage development. But with development, there's a lot of cost. Granted, there are incentives to developing, but overall the cost is what is keeping people from developing. So we are looking to try and propose some sort of housing incentive down the road, whether it's bigger tax abatements or maybe some sort of builder buyer incentive program. There's been a couple of counties in the state that have done a builder buyer incentive program, basically assistance for closing costs, cash for buy down payments and so on and so forth. Of course, that one is going to be long project but again that's just that's another goal in mind uh to kind of switch gears uh with uh with child care um child care is also a big workforce impact but also uh you know to kind of talk about sunny side child care a little bit that one uh was a a big morale hit to the community sunny side child care closing on a five-day notice i mean i understand why the owner needed to close up shop but at the same time we wanted to address the community saying it's in our building we hear you we need to move forward but at the same time we can't as a city or county essentially just open up a daycare. We can't just reopen it and allow those kids and employees back. I mean, the logistics of it just didn't make sense. So the plan that we came up with was to issue an RFP request for proposal. And originally I planned on releasing an RFP specifically designated for future owners and operators of those who wanted to own a childcare center. But at the advice of our city attorney, I did do some revisions and I did put that RFP in your guys' packets just for reference. Basically the RFP states that it's a leasing opportunity now. for anyone in Devils Lake, Ramsey County, who wants to potentially submit a proposal to lease that building. I mean, the past, how many years it's been used as a childcare center? I believe it might've actually been built for the purpose of a childcare center. But that RFP will be released tomorrow. And however many respondents we get, I think there's going to be a selection committee of five people to review the proposals, conduct interviews, and eventually select a final respondent. So you guys have any questions at all so far? OK. So we do try to continue investing in our future workforce. And as Anne talks about the mobile career classroom, I won't dive too deep into that. But she did mention Career Builders. So Career Builders is a scholarship program designed to line a student up with a business in which that they intend to work for someday. If it's a trade school that's in the trades, or if it's a dental hygienist, Or if it is a four-year school, maybe it's going to be a bank. We can line that student up with the business, and that business sponsors that student with, generally it's a $2,500 scholarship. And then Forward Devils Lake and the Jobs Development Authority can come in with up to $6,000, making it $8,500. And then the North Dakota University system can match it dollar for dollar up to $17,000. So hopefully that student comes out with little to no debt.

Do businesses have to sign up for that to be involved in it, or do they wait until you have an interest from a student?

Either or. Generally, I've seen it as the student approaches the business. My experience with it, I will meet with the student, the student and I will go meet with the business, and then the business will sign up. But yes, I have seen it both ways.

And then that brings them back to...

Brings them back to Devil's Lake.

As a commitment?

Yes. For a period of time? At least three years. Granted, the... The contract with the university system does state that they can work within the state of North Dakota. But I mean, whatever the employer and the student do in terms of a separate contract saying, Hey, you know, if you only work for me for a year, you have to pay back the $2,500 scholarship that I gave you, you know, something of that nature. But I mean, we have around 40 active students right now. Um, from the area or have moved to the area for the career builders program. So it's been a good program.

You've got 40 students that take this? We have around 40 active students, yes.

How many years? I believe it started in 2018, 2019. My predecessor did something similar just at a local level, but then it was brought to state legislature and they made it a state program with university system. So as far as business assistance goes, just some numbers roughly. In 2025, we were able to approve about $200,000 worth of loans with nearly $2 million in investments. And I would like to note those $200,000 didn't go out the door right away, but those are commitments over X amount of years. Those are, I'd say probably 90% of that $200,000 was involved in flex-based interest buy-down loan programs with the Bank of North Dakota. So we do invest those dollars with Bank of North Dakota. Generally, it's over a period of five years. And in 26, we approved about $70,000 worth of loans with just under half a million dollars invested privately. So I mean, these dollars do help close the financing gaps that allow the projects to move forward. So as far as business assistance, one other item in the pipeline that I'd like to get moving forward is a business incubator or a business accelerator. The city of Grafton, Grafton JDA, has a business incubator right on their main street. And if you're not familiar with an incubator or an accelerator, it's a program designed to help early stage startups and new entrepreneurs. So if somebody's looking to start their own marketing company or if they want to start their own restaurant. Again, I can use Grafton as an example. They specifically... rehabbed an older building and they put a commercial kitchen in it. They have meeting spaces, they have private offices, and you can sign up for a membership in that building and you can essentially rent it for X amount of hours per week for a small fee per month. So I think it's a good idea. However, of course, there's always a factor of cost. but long-term investment is going to be investing in the community and our future entrepreneurs. So again, no commitments on that, but it is an idea that I would like to see more forward. So, Again, just want to say I appreciate your guys' partnership. I look forward to meeting with you guys more than once a year. I'm thinking quarterly, like I said, if that works.

I think that'd be a great idea, Brady. Talk to me about that, and I think it's an excellent idea to have you come in quarterly, and we can set something up with the chairman. Then I can bash you a little bit more.

That works. You guys have any questions? I mean, it was kind of a lot in a short amount of time, but if you have questions.

really good information like the 40 students granted you know look at a period of time with the community that we are at you look at two to five a year that's probably a huge yeah that's just from what you're showing yep not showing like others have probably done right i know some of the dealerships have already started paying some of the kids of schools to go to series Without the community, it's not going to work.

Yeah, there's a good chunk of students in the program that are with the dealerships around town. Some of them are teachers in our public school system. I mean, it's a great program. I always encourage students to look at it.

The more people that use it, the more work that gets out. Right. And then it just stems from that.

Yeah, exactly.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks, Brady. Thanks, Brady.

Thanks, guys.

Hey, moving on.

Minutes before 6 and then we can move on to the public hearing.

A request for release of funding is that something that we do? Operating. That should already be approved at Jeff.

Ready? Thanks, guys. Yep, thank you, Brady.

Thank you.

it's okay anybody else yep come on up um as of right now public hearing ramsey county south state clear project john

Okay, on the end of April of 26, the Water Board received a petition from representatives of Ontario Township requesting a snag and clear. I'm not going to, you should have the actual legal descriptions in your packets. It's basically starts, the top of it would be southwest of Rohrville down to Highway 2, approximately six and a half miles long. The last three miles of this that proposed snag and clear are mostly in easement, fish and wildlife easement, and conversations have been had by the water board and by the proposed contractor to take and clear any questions that there might be about what can and cannot be done. The project is approximately $59,000 total. 56 of that digging and the rest administrative costs. We're looking at somewhere right around 12 to 14 year payback. The payback or what would be collected each year is a little over $60 to $100. Any questions on the proposed snag and clear?

Any questions for John?

This comes out right where, Highway 2?

It comes down to Highway 2, correct.

Yeah, but what location? I mean, I don't even know. It says 91st Avenue, but with crow flies, what would that be, do you know? Southwest of Curve? Oh, okay.

So when it goes under Highway 2, is that out by your guys' place out there?

I'm just curious so that it's not something that wrecks the highway type of thing.

Yep.

Anybody from out in the crowd have any... Anything to add?

Hearing none, John.

I take it everybody here is for the support of it. We have nobody.

Yes, we have one.

If you could place them up to the mic, please.

Jeff Olson. Where would a project actually start? Would it start at the south end or start at the north end?

It would start at the south end. Yeah, because if you start at the north end, That's the question that, why you're asking, I imagine. Anybody else?

Brian Johnson, potential contractor. we would just for everybody to know we'd start uh by cleaning the culverts on highway two and uh and then trying to get a little water out of prairie flats working with fish and wildlife and then work up and then the next goal to get some water off of the highway old highway two they call it and then tying into some previous work and then wrapping around the roar bill or all the The real water problems are kind of north of Highway 2, old 2 foot. So you're talking about Highway 2 is, I think Highway 2 is 11 feet higher than Prairie Flats at that point, something in that area. So not something that can affect Highway 2. just not the way it works.

I'm just asking because that would be the biggest.

Yeah, that's people ask, you know, you know, and liability and all this stuff. So it's all under control. I think it's a 24 or 30 inch under Highway 2 and water's kind of stalled there, but it does slowly empty and drain down. The coulee on the south side is plenty big to handle. you know, the small amount of water that actually goes through the culvert. So not a real tidal wave going that way, but slowly helps.

Right, one question. What's a culvert on your island?

Yeah, it's a concrete culvert. I think it's a 24 or a 30 now that I probably have it in my notes.

Okay.

It's pretty plugged up, cattails, but it does slowly get down to about the middle of it. The water does. I've been jumping off and checking it every once in a while to make sure it does move. There's one that I've seen. Yeah, there's only one marker post, so I can only see one culvert being there. Yeah, it's nice. No, it's choked up with cattails, but it functions. Otherwise, you'd have a big lake on the north side too, right? So that's about all I got to say about it. Slowly helps one of the near... the one of the farmsteads north of or right near highway two up there is kind of one of the things on the highway itself so anyway thank you that stays within a an existing water course waterway yes it does okay field

John, please.

So Paul Beardson, KLJ Engineering. I guess we made the map for it. The green shading is the US Fish and Wildlife easements. So that's kind of the main concern on it. but they're working through that. The total length of that pink line on the map is 8.62 miles, but they're only cleaning the spots between the sloughs. There's a lot of open water along this route, so he's not digging for that full length. None of the culverts are going to change on any of the roadways, so it's not going to increase any flows. It's just to maintain the existing water course. I think Jeff asked about And relieve the cat tails and stuff like that. So if the water can get out the way it's supposed to go. The snake and clears can't change drainage. They don't, it's not a new adding any new water to the lake or anything like that. It's just cleaning the existing drainage course.

Do you know, are you going through any? Well, I don't serve programs easements.

USDA.

USDA easements.

With all the green on there, I don't know if there's room for any of that, but I guess we didn't look at that.

Well, those require a permit similar to U.S. Fish and Wildlife.

Okay, looks like there'd only be about three parcels that aren't under Fish and Wildlife.

Yeah.

Okay, so... I have a question for you then, Jeff. Fish and wildlife does not require a permit because we are not draining any of their easement land. It is totally a clearing of vegetation and silt. So does WRP require for any just removal of vegetation?

It would require... require that and similar to what us fish wildlife did similar what they did on the clara bartlett snag and clear program they granted you a temporary easement or access to their fish wildlife easements through there to allow drainage through their easement areas

And that's that is different than just cleaning for drainage versus cleaning is not one of the same. That's why I'm asking if the requires the same permit or not.

So that's something that you would have to talk with the district conservationist. And she had indicated that there's been several of these ongoing that has she has developed some concern over and. And people need to be aware of if they have an easement through USDA, that same similar situations that US Fish and Wildlife would have requirements. So they're willing to grant it, but they just need to be asked for permission, I guess.

And that's why all landowners are notified that this potentially could happen. Because one thing about any of these projects, the contract is not between the water board and USDA or Fish and Wildlife. It is between the landowner and or Fish and Wildlife. So it is their responsibility to take a look into that.

Right. They get paid for those easements and... that received the payments for it, but it is your project that you're paying the contractor to complete, correct? And you're assessing landowners for that.

We are assessing landowners. It is the petitioner's project. We just are the middleman that handles it.

Okay. About 99% of his contract money was up to Well, the WRP has, yeah, they're a 30-year easement out there. And, you know, they were payments up front, but they have requirements on those payments on what you can and can't do. Correct. Yeah. And that's what their concern is. And so we don't want to get landowners in hot water with the federal government. A lot of the landowners never received a dollar from the present landowners. These are 30-year easements that were signed recently.

Some are longer than that.

Well, that's U.S. Fish and Wildlife easements that were signed up back in the 60s and 70s. So those are different than the USDA. You can go back farther than that. Well, yes. Yep.

Oh, it's good for the roads.

It helps farming ability.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm just wanting to make sure that all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed. But it's good that people hear some of the history of some of these contracts that were written. Oh, yeah. And attach the land deeds. The abstracts. Any other comments from the public or commission, I guess?

I'm hard of hearing, so I didn't hear exactly what we're supposed to be. This is where we have questions. Yes. Rick Schwab is my name. To come out of the prairie flats, you're going to have to go across our land. Is that going to be a ditch dug through there? There's a U.S. Fish and Wildlife easement on that. How's the water going to come out of there?

Come out of there? Yeah.

Well, it's got to come up a few more feet before it's going to come out though, right? Well, you remember a few years ago when the water came through there and went under the highway?

Yeah.

So I just don't understand.

It's happened numerous times.

Okay, so the only place we're to get out of the prairie flats, would that be on our corner of land coming out of there? Okay, well, in the meantime, everybody's dumping this water in here, and it's flooding up into our field, and it's going to drown out all our trees along there, and it's got to come up several feet before it's going to go out on its own. there's yeast inside that particular yeah there is yeah but that's the only way it's the only way the water is going to come out of there is is to dig a trench through there and you're going to have to and i don't have a problem with that i'd like to see that happen but your fish wildlife is going to have to sign off on that right no they don't have that i don't believe yeah It's not a very long stretch, maybe an eighth of a mile before it gets to the section line that can run on its own, but it's going to have to come up a few more feet before it's going to come out on its own. In the meantime, when are you looking at draining this water from up north?

I understand it's going to start happening here probably in the next 30 days. Am I right, Brian?

i'll just address the first thing we would do is i've been working with some of the locals and we put a culvert in the ground that's been built up for the crossing to get to the north 10 acres there so that's the first thing that we do is put a culvert in there where I don't know if Neil or previous farmers built that up to get through right on the section line.

Yep.

And then we have one easement that we'll have to... There's only one easement that is directly in the route that we need to do it. Half acre, one acre easement. We'll have to work with Fish and Wildlife on that. And we've been... Yeah, so you only have one easement that we have to directly deal with. And it's closer to the second. The ones closer to prairie flats, we can maneuver in between those and not affect them. And so the one easement will either find a way around it or find an elevation that these guys comfortable with on it. So that's your first. So the very first thing we do is get the prairie flats flowing out of there. Before we dump any water into the prairie flats, we've got to resolve the prairie flats issue.

Yeah, I agree.

The second time I looked at it, it was 40 feet wider than the first time I looked at it. The prairie flats, it kind of spouted. The first time I looked at it, it's on tillable ground, and the second time I looked at it, it was 40 feet further out. So that's mission number one right there. Just so he's comfortable, that's where we start, is resolving that.

Well, that's the junction of Ramsey 2 and 3. That's where it starts up further a little to the north of there.

To the left, right?

It starts to the right, right south of your home.

Good with that, Rick? Good with that explanation?

Yeah, I guess what I was wondering about is that they're going to

attempt to work with Fish and Wildlife to get approval to cut a channel through there, then?

John?

Okay.

As long as they're free flow, you really don't need to ask Fish and Wildlife anything other than to clean a cat field. You're just cleaning a cat field with the water free flow, then they're not a picture. I guess they'll be aware of it, be made a

But it's not going to free flow on its own.

No, when it comes out of the grain flats, it's going to have to be some out there.

And so if fish and wildlife goes along with it, would this be a temporary ditch or a permanent ditch? We don't know that. Don't know, probably.

And now somebody goes back and fills it in, it's full.

Well, I'd like to see a legal ditch stay there. So I'd like to see it.

I don't think a wet cycle is one way to do it.

No. So if we could get a legal ditch to there, I don't care how deep it is. It needs to get out of there. But like I say, I don't know how long the easement is on the fish and wildlife. A lot of them are 100 years, 99 years old. And so there's probably 40 years left on stuff like that. I don't know, I didn't look into it, but.

But as long as you're not draining the wetland, they should be okay with it, correct, John? That's what I just told you. Yep, so. As long as you're not .

Right, so you should be okay, Rick. Yeah, I mean, as far as for, For birds and stuff, that area would be way better for birds if it was down about 10 feet, the water.

Anybody else have anything to add?

Dave Buckmeyer.

I was wondering, I'm living right there off the Rower Mill Road, road to the beach. Okay. And you did a ditch, cleaned out the ditch there on Cattails, and then brought the water underneath the road, pulled through.

But it's backing up into my yard.

Is it?

Yes.

There's going to be a little snag and clear going south there at Lake Frank. It's going to be done here shortly. Okay.

And you start out south and that'll be done before the water comes. Yes. Okay.

Okay. Didn't take any of your fruit trees, did it?

Well, I don't have a lot of trees anymore.

But the water is still coming in.

It's pretty slow now.

Yeah, well, it's not going down. I was down in the south end there, and it's not flowing there at all. But as we get that cleaned out to the south, we will take Yeah.

Anybody else? John.

I left promotion from the board.

Is there a motion from the water board? Four or a guess? I have a motion, is there a second? Dwayne, second. Is there any further discussion by the board? Hearing none, Stacey, roll call vote. Yes, motion passed.

Any motion passes from the water board? Now that moves on to the commission, correct?

Make a motion to approve this snag and clear. Second.

We have a motion. We have a second. Roll call, please.

Otis.

All right.

Griff. All right. Brown. All right. Will Helmy.

All right. Motion carries. Thank you everybody for showing up for the state. Moving on to Jason.

Let me clear the ground.

Jason, afternoon.

Afternoon, everybody. We'll jump right into it. We are continuing working on the five-door building. We got the quote there for Abe's excavating to locate the water in the sewer, do the hookups and dig the graded sewer into the building. He's working with a floor contractor Travis Buckmeyer on that, so TJB Construction, and that was for $12,500 for that quote, so I'm asking for a motion to accept that.

So moved. Second. We have a motion, we have a second. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, same sign. Motion carries.

The next one, I took some quotes for some two-inch minus crushed rock in some of these soft spot areas, mainly on four and seven, but we got one on nine. We're going to do a spot on two south of Penn as well. I measured up those spots. It came up to about 4,536 ton roughly on my estimates. I got two quotes there. I do have them here. I did not get them in your packet. If you guys would like a copy of the actual quotes, I do have them. The local was DS construction at $21.37 per ton. And to do this amount of tonnage on these different sites, the total comes out to $112,956.48. And that's $7,000 under the target budget of $120,000 I had budgeted. So I'm asking for a motion to go ahead and move forward on fixing some soft spots. So moved.

Second. We got a motion, we got a second. All those in favor, by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, same sign. Motion carries.

The culvert order, had to get a culvert order in or on the way. The culvert order is $42,785.92. These are for stockyard or resale culverts. So I put a little explanation in there for you guys, where they all went and why we needed it. So I'm asking for a motion to accept the culvert order so we can get those up here.

So moved. Second. We have a motion, we have a second. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, opposed, same sign, motion carries.

Anybody listening or waiting for culverts, they will be here tomorrow. Now that you guys accepted that, they'll send the truck tomorrow. They said they're just waiting to get the approval so we could get the load up here. So we'll have semis here tomorrow.

Thank you.

We had a request for a speed zone request. I haven't had a chance to get the sheriff on this. It's been crazy for two weeks, but this would be right off of Ramsey County 9. On Ramsey County 4, Brady made the request. He'd like to see the speed limit slowed down to 25 miles an hour. It's about a half a mile or maybe a third of a mile there from 9 South past their farm. He's building a new house. He has little children there. So I don't know if that's something we want to move on with or if you guys need more information on that or talk with the sheriff on that and see about enforcing that.

What's the speed limit now?

It's 50, well, 55 for cars and 40 for trucks.

Just the gravel portion, correct?

Yeah, just the gravel portion there.

Your suggestion?

Well, you said just from nine to south of their farm, because when you, if you're going up four, coming down four, there's stop signs that way. If you roll nine, you don't have to stop. You can take it as fast as you can make the corner. because there is no stop signs, especially if you're making a right turn or a left turn there. So like I say, I apologize. I put it in here. I meant to get with the sheriff Lang and I just never got to it.

You familiar with this?

Yeah, I mean, if we're going to put all the traffic at 35, I would imagine. I'm assuming it's not trucks getting up to speed that fast. Pickups and cars that are in a half mile or whatever. It's probably not even a half mile. It's closer to a quarter to a third of a mile. It's not very far. They're not that far from that intersection.

35 yards, right? Okay.

We'll try it. Yep, that's good. That's fair.

Motion to

We have the ability to put a, well, like a children crossing or something like that, give people kind of a little bit of a heads up that.

No, not any longer. They're not allowed anymore under state law.

Oh.

Because people take it the wrong way. It almost encourages to let their kids near the road.

Oh.

Now motorists are supposed to watch for the children. So they basically banned those a couple of years ago. People still put them up, but they're not put up by government entities any longer.

Okay. Interesting. I got a question for that.

I can see where Brady's looking at, but how is that going to get patrolled?

That's why I was going to try to get with Sheriff Lang about it and see if it's something that's going to get patrolled or how you'd force it, you know. we can't do those signs anymore but we could i mean um yeah i don't know what we can really do besides just try to post it and uh and see if sheriff has time to send somebody once in a while to just patrol get the water under or the road underwater also yeah Not funny after the last two weeks.

Yes, right.

And we'll put like orange flags behind the new signs, you know, to draw attention to and things like that, that we can do that are legal, that don't compromise the sign or the enforcement of the sign.

I think even just marking it as a lower speed limit shouldn't help bring attention to the fact that I must need to slow down for some reason.

Right. And I don't know, I'm not in law enforcement, I don't know if it's actually that big of a need, I don't know. He is gonna do the mag water thing, if we can ever get that lined up. So that'll help too, because it'll keep the dust down. So people will be able, the kids will be able to see and so will the drivers, if there's kids out there. So that will help, but yes. Okay. So I don't know if that needs a motion from you guys, or if we can just do that now that we talked. Okay. Next item was a quote for the Ramsey County Cavalier Line from Johnson Excavating. He had thrown out 12 to 15,000. He was able to get a better price on that. That'll be $13,800. And that's to get that 10 foot pipe back into place and back fill the road. So I'm asking for a motion to accept that and pay that when he gets that all turned in.

That's Ramsey's house then?

No, that's our hat. That's the whole total. So we'll pay the, we pay the bill. We handle that side. If we get funding or don't get funding, then we figure it out with Cavalier at that point, because that crossing may change or this or that, but we, we handle that side for now. I don't remember if you guys, well, everybody got a copy of the county land agreements, everything under a hundred thousand dollars we take care of. And then we, figure it out with them. So this is just shoving the old rusted out pipe back in the hole and made the road. Yep. So people can drive. Yep. So we don't know if anything has to be changed there. Like we talked last meeting and we're going to wait and see if we get funding on some of this to see where, if we go forward with changing crossings or living with what we have until we can budget for. But yes, we will be expecting to recoup half of that at some point. but for now it's ours to take care of. I'd move to accept it.

Second.

We have a motion, we have a second. With a question for both you and Mr. Johnson, I think that that's going to suffice for upcoming flows potentially?

Well, we'll rock the... Ends really, really well compared to what we had there. And hope it buys us time through. I'd be more worried about spring.

Spring runoff.

Right, exactly.

That's what I'm concerned about.

But hopefully we know something by then, whether we're going to get funding to help with it or if we've got to try to find a way to find the money in our budget to repair it.

There's five 36-inchers in there?

No, there's one 10-footer in there.

10-footer?

One 10-footer on by 80 feet long.

Okay, what's the plan now to go back there?

just use that pipe again and fill it in and get it rip wrapped and use the road.

That's what we did.

Yeah.

Well, they ain't taken such a name. Yeah. Basically we're looking to pay this.

Yep. Pardon me?

We're looking for a motion to pay this, basically, because the work is already done.

Do we have a motion? Do we have a second?

We already did.

Motion to second. Roll call, please.

Because we're paying it, right? We will be up.

Well, that's not what the request is for. Motion to accept the bid.

And to pay it when I stated that publicly here. When I get it.

We're still good with the motion, you guys?

Yep. Roll call, please. Otis? Aye. Frith? Aye. Brown? Aye. Wilhelmy?

Aye.

Volk?

Aye. Motion carries.

um the uh that's just another fyi we got a few people on there with that our preliminary estimate total was up to two million five hundred and fifty three thousand two hundred ninety dollars and seventy seven cents um i have been speaking with justin mesner today they are bringing a team of fema representatives here on tuesday he just notified me at 4 45. They're going to fly into Grand Forks on Monday. They'll be here Tuesday. We're going to split up into multiple groups. We're going to drive the whole county and look at all the sites. And then they'll make an assessment from there of what they feel is verified damages versus what we submitted for damages. And then we'll go from there.

Do you know in your conversations with Justin and other counties included in this?

Yep. Well, I know he said they've filed for the disaster declarations around us, the three right around us, immediately around us, Cavalier Nelson and going the other way, Toner.

Because I'm pretty sure that Ward and Bottineau County has had damages that same time period. So if we could get those.

Ward did too, now that you say it. They had a railroad grade and something else wash out. The one project alone is about $400,000.

So if we could all piggyback together, that'd be.

Yeah, it's all going to be one event. That's why they actually extended it a couple of days. Jeff, because they want to be allowed to get them in there. Ramsey County 9 is now open from Ramsey County 3 to 4. We took culvert from the yard and replaced the rusted culvert that was in there. Um, so that one's open and going tomorrow. We're going to do Ramsey County nine, the other direction. They have to replace the 36 or 24 inch that failed there. So, and then we'll have nine all the way open again from, from 20 to all the way to the other side of one. Um, on the crossing one 20 dash 13, which is in Harding township. I guess I should have gave you guys that, um, information. It's the 65th street. I believe it is. It's straight east of Garsky. There's four culverts in there. Three of the cops are good. One of them had collapsed inside of itself. It was, uh, it was an arch plate. We had to go get a culvert to get that one up and going. um the culvert costs will be ninety eight hundred dollars and johnson's cost for the install was two thousand dollars not the original four thousand that was first quoted so i'm asking for a motion to accept these two costs and pay those when received invoices are received move to approve second

We have a motion and we have a second to accept and pay when received. Roll call, please.

Otis.

Aye.

Frith.

Aye.

Brown.

Aye.

Wilhelmi.

Aye.

Volk.

Aye. Motion carries.

The next one I have is Newland Township section four, an 84 by 50 inch, 84 inch by 50 foot arch culvert that was put in in 2023, washed out and was, I don't know if you guys saw the pictures, but it was kitty wampus. It had to be removed, re-dug, relayed and backfilled. That work repair came to, for DS construction, came to $6,800. So we're asking for a motion to accept and repair that as well. Or to pay that as well, I mean.

So moved.

Second.

We're going to motion a second to pay that.

Roll call, please.

Otis.

Aye.

Frith.

All right.

Brown. All right. Wilhelmy.

All right.

Fulk. All right.

This next one, I'm not sure on yet. We got it squared away today, I think, totally, but the DS construction quote to haul in place 80 yards of riprap and 40 yards of gravel, that's not what's on there, was for $3,000 on that site. They haven't done this yet. So I'm asking for a motion just to accept this quote.

That's $3,000 for riprap and gravel. So moved. Second. I have a motion and a second to accept this. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, opposed, same sign. Motion carries.

I apologize if anybody got called over Ramsey County 3. It was a terrible paint job and I got called from a couple of residents and I drove it myself. I reached out to Daniel's office and told him I was refusing the work. So I called and talked with Dolman painting company. They apologize. They had a new guy who wasn't able to center lines or something. It's very bad. So they are coming this week to black out the center and repaint the center. And then they're going to do a six inch shoulder stripe to fix the white at no charge. So they said they value our work and they want to keep our work. So they're going to make it right. Good. So. Yep, that was that. And then the last thing I need for a motion is to order some cutting edges from Butler. The quote for 12 four foot sections came in at 33, 39, 60. So moved.

I have a motion and a second to order the cutting edges. All those in favor by saying hi.

Aye.

Opposed, same sign, motion carries. I do have a question for you, Jason.

Yes.

The Crary Road, going into Crary, you get all those contractors that go clean up the pellets and all that stuff, and an individual concerned when they mow, when they start doing ditch mowing, that they're going to wreck their mowers because there's some concrete out there and some pellets and some iron. And the last- They take the road signs, they just threw them in the ditch.

are they that they take the signs off yet yes they just rolled them over because it's not painted as far as i know the shoulder lines aren't painted yet so that's just a concern when they start going okay um i noticed i was going to ask paul because i was going to bring paul up now for or we can do that when we go to the fencer sleuthing too i guess but do you have anything other than fencer

just on the paving project just giving an update they did finish bathing but they do have to still put permanent stripe on with the gravel there's some approaches that'll need a little bit of gravel to smooth up the flattening slopes um so they know they have to do that but their completion date is until september 26th and maybe the public's just a little bit ahead of themselves you know everybody's excited about that right yeah well that makes sense um i don't know if all if all that stuff is there that wouldn't have had any pallets from the project Yeah, I don't know.

We just drive out there.

And then as far as any metal, the only metal they would have would be skid-mounted signs. But it's from the road signs. Oh, if it's like the T-bases from the portable signs, those might be there from the flagger signs and stuff that they're not using now. But yeah, they'll get their stuff out of there for sure. Like I said, the completion date's not until September 26th, and we've been talking to them there forever, every couple weeks. Greg talked to them last week, and they said they know they have to do it, and they're going to do the traveling before they move their plant out of here while they still have people in the area. But they're busy paving right now. They'll get to it here before the completion date.

Thank you. Then the last thing I had that I didn't get in the agenda, but I did finish the self audit of the 2022 FEMA disaster 4660 for Ramsey County. I completed that last week. We were able to get an extension to get Hope Township's graveling that they just had done into that. So they'll get their FEMA funds that were granted to them in 2022. They will get that. Um, so far so good, nothing flags and they had me submit our administrative costs for that. So that'll be another $85,000 roughly for the county highway department. Thank you to handle that. So that is done and completed on time with everything that was going on. It was, it was a great time to have that come due.

Thanks.

Yep. Thank you guys.

next item is hr nicole we have our own teams okay we can you guys want to move fencers up before we are you okay with that nicole okay we'll just move down to unfinished business and bring fencers through since we have people here that over here Jason or who's?

All right, I'm back. So as everybody knows, we think Commissioner Frith let us know that the temporary drainage permit on Fenster Slough was denied. So at this point, we're no further ahead in the game than we were two months ago or whatever, when all this really started to impact the road. was out there today and drove it all again and looked at it um johnsons are still doing a really good job on any little washouts showing up in the ditch they're getting rock in there i've been i've been exhausting all avenues uh meeting with mr commissioner brown trying to figure out what ways the county can help um with any of this but without Without the permit, I don't know where we turned.

I talked to Daniel Levine. He had called me, and he said regarding Spencer Slough and the drain application denial, his recommendations to the commission is to request a rehearing on the drain application denial.

He's working on this, and he said it has to be to them in the later 31st of July, so he plans on having that done as soon as he comes back from

He suggests not to move on to anything until we at least put this appeal. Okay. That was his suggestion. And I talked to Ed about this today. And it's not to put the people out there on hold. It's just, I don't know. He didn't really like the idea of moving on until he can at least put the appeal. Since we did ask for this, he wants to do the process so that it keeps us from getting in trouble.

So part of that appeal process could maybe be, Commissioner Frith had reached out last week and was just curious on a current project estimate for a a grade raise on Ramsey County Forest. We could look at dollars and cents, you know, to maybe add that part of this process so they could see the cost impacting.

When you have the guy there, is that something they consider a disaster yet or it has to be on it?

on four. The sad part about that is that's a federal aid road, so that doesn't qualify for the North Dakota DES side. So Paul did get the estimate together. Paul, I don't know if you want to share. His IWI system was down, but he did get the county road looked at.

Yeah, so I guess I just did a really rough cost estimate to raise the road down by Fritz there south of County 2 up to the same elevation as the rest of the road when we built it back in 2012. It's at 1501 and a half there and it's 1490. It was a three and a half foot grade raise. 98 right around there. And the outlet elevation is about 99. So I mean, it would go over the road before it would before it would outlet. But like Jason said, it has to be over the white line with the water before Federal Highway will participate in the cost for it. So as an ER, emergency relief funding, not through FEMA, that would be through the federal government and state.

So a rough estimate to raise that section of road?

Oh, about in the ballpark of 2 million. I guess I just, the IWI site was down last week and started up again. It worked yesterday, so this afternoon I put it back together. You know, it's about a half mile of paving and gravel and then to borrow.

Okay, you're going from where to where for 2 million?

It's about a half mile just right around there where it's low.

And you're going to raise it how far?

Three and a half feet. Start, you know, zero to three and a half feet back to zero.

And go down to the section line then? South?

Yeah, it was past that next intersection. You'll see when you drive out there.

So the section line road, the township road. going back to the West would have to be raised as well, correct? Or abandoned, yeah. And the reason I asked Jason to take a look at this, anytime we do a cost share request at DWR, we take a look at the do nothing cost, and this is the do nothing cost.

is the $2 million to raise that road.

So substantially different then.

And that's where we've come in at the 19.07% or whatever it would be like $380,000 quick math of our local share would go into raising that road.

Yeah, and I guess when we did submit, we worked with the Water Board back in 2014 on the same Spencer Slough outlet potential and got rejected at the state level there because of the statewide significance. So it didn't seem to matter. We did put costs to that. What the grade raises would have to be, you know, that's just a patient and it didn't matter. Right. They didn't get past that. The letter.

The sad thing we're doing, we're right in the road. We're not doing anything with the first yard. We're at Zerbo, I guess. Sorry. I mean, to move the water, yes.

Yeah.

I've had... To move the water saves $2 million.

Yeah.

And that's only on the road, not counting all the, if they're structured down.

Well, and I've had conversations with farmers as far north as the Brockett area on Ramsey County 7 that are actually holding water right now, not to take that road down. If they let the water go from 7 plain down there, everything between there would go underwater. And then, of course, 4 would go underwater as well. And they use that road as well. So they're trying to hold back what they can to keep it from overtopping 4 and the township roads in between.

Until they get a rain.

No, and then they can't hold it. So today when I drove it, I would say it's down slightly, just with, I suppose, some evaporation that's been so hot and windy. But, I mean, it's still right lapping at the bottom of the asphalt. But it's not as high as it was. I didn't have time to shoot elevations on it today. I would have liked to have just set up the laser and tell us what kind of freeboard we have, but it just wasn't in the cards. I got out of there late.

Yeah. working overtime. It's really frustrating. I know you're one of eight. Frustrating to the exception of the state water commission is actually embarrassing for North Dakota. I think, you know, especially up here where we've had water problems for going on about 30, 35 years. I mean, it's, it's damn embarrassing. I think. deny us here how much more than water came in the last three weeks and it came out of the sky. Who can predict that? Nobody can predict that. Nobody can predict this. Who predicted how many years ago we built this? It wasn't that we weren't prepared, but who ever would have dreamt that we were going to go this high?

Well, unlike Paul just stated, he tried to take it that high then, and they denied it then in 2014, they were the water board and whoever himself and Kevin, whoever was all involved, they were forward thinking to get it to that right elevation. So it could, so it could flow out without taking the road. And that was denied in 2014 to go that high. So. Yeah, I've done some speaking with Levi Otis. He's a drain tile expert, I guess I would call him. I don't know what you want to say. I mean, there's been some conversations had there about different possible legal drains and things like this. But again, once you get out of the county right away, which we'd have to do some stuff in our right away, but to make those things work. But then it falls into township hands and things like that. Yeah, I really don't know. I wish I had an answer, but.

Our hands are kind of tied until. Well, encourage that what our state's attorney working on, you know, get back. Hopefully we can have some answers right in and once we have a special meeting, we have to come forward.

Really all we can do as of at this point, you know. And hope that we don't get rain in.

Well, that's the other thing.

Well, that's the thing. I don't know if it's going to go underwater because you can't project that, but I can say that it's not going to hold up through harvest, I don't think, with all that water right there. I mean, that's pretty safe. I mean, I'd have... Could have Paul look at that a little better and give us an idea, but you know that roadbed is saturated beyond saturated.

And I think Mr. Johnson's reply to the denial was spot on. And that harvest is upcoming. And the number of... traffic the amount of traffic that that road is expected to handle there's no secondary roads that do well handle that type of traffic um i i think it's you know you hit the nail on the head and it's embarrassing um for the state to have this and with that i guess i would go ahead and make a motion to follow our state's attorney's recommendation of filing an appeal with the Department of Water Resources on the denial of this application.

He did ask if we want to use our letterhead or his... Yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. Okay, I'll let him know. But we got a motion. I'm sorry, Jeff.

No.

Second. We got a motion. We got a second. All those in favor by saying aye. Aye. I will motion carries. I'll make sure I contact him and let him know that we need to get that moving as quickly as possible for that. And everybody out here that needs that road, we got to all work together and send our voices that way. Because I think everybody at this table feels the same way as you guys do. Our hands are tied.

I do have one question maybe, Jeff, you can answer, or maybe anybody at the table can answer. I've been asked by several different people who or what would generate to sue the state. You guys have any idea, or is that a Daniel question? Who or what could move forward to sue the state on this issue?

Our local representatives.

Is that who would have to take it forward?

I mean, they should be carrying the ball for us every day.

Because I don't know.

I think they... And I think it starts with this process right here. So they'd come up and do a hearing. And then if that is denied, then we can appeal it to district court. Okay.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

And from there, the wheels would...

That might be the only way we get any traction.

Yeah, I don't know. I just always say, I don't know. I'll find out. And I always forget to ask. Because I don't know. I've never been in this situation. Right.

And I, I agree, I agree with you, Ed, you know, you're sitting on the board and stuff and it's like, you're always the last to know. Right. You know, thinking that you're on that board, do you think we would be on top?

No, I, I would think that I'd be the first to know too.

So we could share that.

Yeah. I was notified at the same time anybody else was. So, um, it's aggravating. That's frustrating. And, um, yeah. I would certainly encourage those private individuals that are incurring costs to help us with our roads to make sure that you keep track of that, whether it be a number of roads or the time or the money that you are spending to help Ramsey County or your townships build up your roads. We need to keep track of those costs.

And I was going to talk with Mr. Tronson about that. We can be paying for those materials right now, you know, So that's nothing we have to wait for federal funding for a few loads of rock.

But I think we need to take the steps to ensure that that road doesn't go under. Dump and rock on the side of it, dirt, whatever else. Well, you think you've done some road work in your life. All right. Well, thank you. If you ask for help on the side, now. I think you're right. But in the township's hands, and in fact, because they are poor bosses, the way the township is, the township is a poor boss.

Right.

If you were drinking some Harvey's, I'm not a farmer.

I could give a shit about that road. But it's stupid. You know, $2 million worth of peanuts.

It's $25 million.

I've been training for 18 days. So, $45,000.

There's some models that you can find and think that it's a model. This is where you're smart. And then if you like these laws that they've gotten through, you know, the partners could be putting laws what's going on in the region. There's some other ones.

I think Charlie, I know that's big words, but.

Maybe we should just go ahead and do it then. Is that what you're saying? just for a, just so Canada wants, you know, someone, you know, what's the cost of all this? You know, is it just the water quality in Canada? Is it, you know, where's the priority here?

You know, priority should be, you know, these people right here.

I agree with you 100%. What are the consequences of the state? Those were months, three months. That's my opinion. And I'm not saying these guys. So, so to be clear, it has to be a, since we're in township, it has to be township. How are you going to supersede the television? So there's a lot of clear. Now, it's a great overnight. We're still standing 60 to 30. It's all for the best.

You know, it's got control. I mean, we don't just watch.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm all in favor of it. I think I've told people to go in, but we can't wait for the state. Like I said, I think that's for the breakup. I'm sure.

right yep they're all better reasons than whatever the reason is

Yep.

Yeah. I think we've done what we can.

At this meeting, we'll do it. We'd have a special meeting and. Not to say that the township can't do something, but that's not for us to decide. As you said, they supersede us.

And we've decided to appeal the decision and we'll let Daniel take care of that appeal process.

Once we can get the appeal on their desk, then we can be like, this is what we did. Brought you back the appeal. Why no answers? Why the same? you know, to tell us in the reading that disaster can't precede another disaster. When I look at it...

I would assume so.

Let's get the state terms and rules and see if we get answers.

I'll call him tomorrow and tell him that it's got to be done. ASAP. I think we're going to give him a chance. I don't want him to walk us into something or ourselves walk into something that we don't do wrong.

Let's let him have the time to do that.

I know we're anxious to move that water, that's for sure. Let's do it that way.

OK, so. With that sense of snow we. Voted on to let the.

States attorney do his job. I guess you want to call it that.

The next item would be. Nicole. Thank you guys for all coming. Appreciate it. Good evening, Nicole. I guess the mic is yours.

If you try that again with my mic on, I'm sorry about that. Good evening, it's Nicole Boxard. I work at the Human Resource Consultant for Ramsey County. And I'm helping to make service zones. And there might actually be two items on the agenda to address. Is the Courthouse Evacuation Plan on the agenda tonight?

NO. NO. NO. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY.

WELL, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, WELL, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, WELL, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, SO WE WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT. SO WE WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT. SO WE WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT. THAT WILL BE COMING YOUR WAY THAT WILL BE COMING YOUR WAY THAT WILL BE COMING YOUR WAY SOON IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS SOON IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS SOON IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WE CAN DISCUSS. WE CAN DISCUSS. WE CAN DISCUSS. SO THE BIGGER REASON, SO THE BIGGER REASON, SO THE BIGGER REASON, OR THE MAIN REASON THEN, OR THE MAIN REASON THEN, OR THE MAIN REASON THEN, FOR ME JOINING YOU TONIGHT, FOR ME JOINING YOU TONIGHT, FOR ME JOINING YOU TONIGHT, IS AT THE LAST MEETING and some unknowns, probably, of how that chart works and what goes into that chart. So I had asked Andy to print off a copy of the current chart so that each of you has that in front of you. Is that something that everybody has?

Yes.

OK. I'VE HAD A COUPLE OF HOME CONVERSATIONS WITH LANE SINCE THE I'M SORRY MR. CHAIRMAN I SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SPOT SINCE THE LAST MEETING AND SO HE AND I HAVE STEPPED THROUGH SOME OF THESE THINGS I THINK THERE WERE SOME pieces about this model that maybe not everyone understood and there also was some work that never really got assigned in the last year um that has has put us a little bit behind um but i'm just going to go through the layout real basically because then i want to talk about the work that needs to be done when you look at the top of the page top left hand corner you're going to see 2025 step scale with job titles under that you'll see yos which stands for years of service the next box is step after that you'll see grade and a percent sign then on the very first column under brain you will see the grades themselves starting with one and the next first words you'll see are maintenance tech that is right there essentially the job that is a grade one heavy line a two pre-listed there highway maintenance one admin assistant it's EXTENSION AND DEPUTY RECORDER THEN THE 3B IS THAT LINE SO THAT'S HOW YOU READ WHAT JOB IS IN EACH GRADE IT CONTINUES ON UM HOPEFULLY YOU WERE ABLE TO GET IT PRINTED SO THAT YOU HAVE WE DO FOUR PAGES AND IF YOU CAN SET THEM SIDE BY SIDE UM THE 14TH GRADE IS EMPTY So that does sometimes get a little confusing in the grade right above or right below. I've added a couple of details in here to make this a little less confusing than it was originally. So let's go back up to the top. The years of service. You have a policy that says that you can hire up to, I believe it is step five. Sorry, let's close this and get it out of my way. Yeah, step five. So you have a policy saying that you can hire up to step five. So that's the second list of numbers. that are there. Not the top one is years of service. The second one is the steps, okay? And then, You'll see that I added in what is actually the third column. I added in the 2024 rate, the 2025 rate, and then the 2025 monthly. Now that wasn't there before. So truthfully, up until even earlier today when I was talking to Blaine, I kind of just always assumed that that was a higher range. And it didn't make a lot of sense to me why it wasn't any bigger than it was. But I just basically looked at it and said, oh, it's a range. It is what it is kind of thing. And then when I looked again at all the formulas, it looks like it is the 24-hour salaries. And then the 25 salaries with a 3% increase are calculated on the same sheet. As I've gone back to look at past salaries, they didn't have double lines like this. So this was more just of an informational one that had these dual lines. So one of the biggest questions has been, well, how come we don't know what a step is gonna cost? And that answer comes in, if you look at where it says grade and then the percent, as you go across to your right, Starting under where years of service one is, you'll see how there's three, three percents in a row, and then 2.5, three of those, and then a random 1.98. And depending on if there's a color or how you print it out, that 1.98 line is also grayed out and called market. Well, the reason that this gets very circular is the steps are varying across the entire model and there's there's a 44 percent spread and i added that formula in at the very edge and it's a 44 spread across all the salads so there is even spread which is would be good could be bad depending on what your goal is but you have a consistent spread um and to have 25 salaries but to only have a 44 percent spread it's pretty easy math to go there's no way these salaries are three percent each so I have not been able to find in any of the documents that I've found where there was ever any guidelines given of how to actually use what was developed here. And so I think that what has happened is you have used a combination of many different methods throughout the years. And we've gotten to a point now this year where The average difference between where an employee's salary says they should be in a grade and where they were. So I took their 25 grade because I feel strong about where they were on that sheet. I adjusted where I felt they would have been to 26 manually. And then I looked at where they would be if we moved them one step. Well, the average that we're off right now is 7.7 steps. And there's a multitude of reasons. And one of it is the scales themselves haven't moved since 2025. Because I had no idea that I was the one that needed to move the scales last year because I didn't start until August. And I didn't even really look at this until earlier this year. It all came up through kind of a side conversation with Jason Kraft about somebody out of his department. And then I started looking at it and realizing that there was all sorts of issues within it. But you have this step model, but you've also now in the last year, You've done a negotiation for your state's attorney, which has modified his step. You, in your highway department, set a starting salary that is higher than what the range is and higher than kind of this max of what the policy allows. So we've greatly amplified where those employees are. And then we've also modified some of deputy salaries. We just processed a change within another department that was called a title change, but a title change normally doesn't have a salary change tied to it, and this one did. So there's just a lot of movement that just kind of happens, and it seems like, you know, oh, it's just one one-off. Well, except that one one-off in each of these areas has caused A lot of a lot of issues. There's there's less than 10 people that really kind of even are close to matching up with where they should be anywhere on their steps. So I think that you can see the yellow. Boxes on yours. Can you see those couple of yellow boxes that come through?

Yes, they're there.

Yeah, OK, sorry. So if you go to grade 3. And you see where I've yellowed those boxes that that's primarily to show these highway maintenance jobs.

Correct.

And I want to say that the thing about HR is it depends which HR hat I'm wearing at which time. So when I'm wearing my compensation hat, I'm like, you know, this is what this has done and how it's caused other issues. If I'm wearing my recruitment hat, I say, we probably need more money and salaries to get to hire. So I understand that HR itself causes some of this conflict and that as a board, you're trying to take in all these pieces. But this is what's happened here. That $25 an hour that we decided was kind of that second step, that second level, you'll see that I have that in two different areas because we don't have great clarification right now who exactly that's applying to. Well, on the three, That puts people at a step 12 or 13 based on their salary. On the grade four, it puts them at 25, I'm sorry, at an eight or a nine. So what I can't tell because of how you guys are doing this is does their step I think I said that wrong, puts them on a step 12 or 13, and it puts them on a step eight or nine. Does their step, if they're going to get a step increase, do they stay at the step that belongs with their actual years of service based on when they started? Does their step follow them to whatever their current salary is? is it some combination of all the above because if we hired we hired a couple new people in september of 2025 august september 2025 in the highway department one of them has a cdl he's getting increased dollars so should he then now that he's making about $25 on this chart, should he be a step one or possibly step two going into 27 and get a 3% increase? Or if he's at $25, should he be a step eight and only get the 1.98% increase? Because I don't know what your intention is

when you take and just pick dollar notes and that they're not at the max of that or that actual sound because the way i understand excuse me the way i understand this is when we went to put these people at 25 you just gave them credit 11 years experience yes according to this chart according to this chart that's what it did what she's saying that's where that's yeah that was where the chart got messed up

But the whole reason for doing the $25, it doesn't matter if I did 2486 or 2509 to fall on the chart. We skipped all the years of experience. We just went right to that area to get the people in the door to do the job.

And that's understandable. But what Shane is saying is now that we gave them the 12 years experience, do we leave them at the 12 years experience so that the step, as you see, would be 1.5%. So last year, for instance, and I brought this up the last three years, and nobody would listen. When we gave a 3% COLA, and if someone was at step 8, they were getting a 5% raise. And that's why it is so difficult with this chart. for you managers to try to set your budget because the chart that we're using, and that's where I was getting frustrated because I was always, your steps are set, right? Not knowing how the chart works, our steps are set. If I say, we're going to give you a step, the step is already set and we're going to do a 3%. but you would take that three percent and put it across all the steps for the following year to having a starting but according to this chart it doesn't work that way because you got some at a step get three percent plus whatever a coma is some get one percent some that's messed up as far as i'm concerned well i gotta but that's why i've been talking to nicole how do we go about fixing it since we have put people into these years and it throws off all the steps for all the other employees that are working for us.

Okay, Blaine, just let me finish one more piece here. So there's a couple things. You have a chart that wouldn't necessarily have to be that hard to maintain if you had an HRRS system that maintained your chart for you. You don't have that. And it wasn't set up with formulas that you could just go in and say, here's our new starting wage and everything is going to calculate on that. That's what I'm working on. And I've spent a lot of time over the weekend doing this. And I've done a ton of comp work so I can do that. But I don't know that I think that that kind of model is the model that best supports the accounting of your size because the service public's human service zone isn't in this group so we're down to 60 some employees here so i will gladly do this and it gives me a probably a little more job security than i even want so i just want to say i'm not saying i can't do this i can certainly do this but the problem is You really need to know what your COLA is going to be because you have to move the chart to be able to know what you're going to give for steps. So it's a multi-step process here because if you're moving your wages every year, you've got to know if you're moving the chart to know if the wages move so you can't really figure out even what a step costs until you've decided on a COLA adjustment. And so that's where this whole thing becomes very circular. And I'm not sure exactly how strong of budget numbers you were always getting and how you were budgeting for those open positions, because that makes a big difference what realistic numbers you're using for those. Because that's really what bails you out is that you're not fully staffed for very long because there's always some movement. And that's just turnover. That's nothing against Ramsey County. That's every employer. But that's kind of where your wiggle room comes from. But then in those years, you also have to pay out vacation balances and in your case you sometimes have to pay out some sick leave so there can be even a higher salary right there so first point is i do not want to rip apart something that you paid gallagher to do in 20 21 22 but i don't know that this really supports what you're doing because if you guys go and you look at where it switches to step 15. Now we go to a 1% difference for four steps. Now we drop it down to a 0.75 and a five. So that whole end of that chart, there's very little math left after you get to an 18. and from the research that i've done very few public sectors are using anything beyond a 20. the reason that many have stayed at a 20 instead of going to a 15 is it does spread out your cost a little bit and you can do a two percent a year over 20 years and and be at that 40 spread where you're already at a 40 what did i say 44 so your width isn't that different um We have to get your chart moved a couple of years forward. We're having a very, very hard time hiring. Part of that is because we haven't adequately moved this. The moves that we did make, as Jason was saying, is that we needed to get some people in here. I think that the highway maintenance one is probably But if we could have pulled back a little bit on that level and then look more at twos and threes, which is really what we ended up doing anyhow. So we can probably modify that a little bit and we may need to do a smaller increase for some of the people who already got these bigger adjustments.

So Nicole, what I'm getting out of this is until we fix this chart with the correction, Once the chart is fixed, it could work moving on. And since it hasn't been fixed since 24 is why you would need it to move those individuals to like step 11 to get that amount of money. Or if this chart would have been fixed, we probably would be following our policy or be right in that market value.

Well, I'll be honest. I didn't even look at the chart. I didn't care about the 11 years. I picked a figure that was competitive to what everybody else was going and I brought it and pitched it.

If the last two years we would have taken that 3% and put it on there, you would be at that number and we wouldn't be in this mess.

Right. No, I understand.

You are hiring at market probably on the level two, but your model says we want it to take seven years to get to market. I don't know that that's realistic for you guys anymore is to say we're going to wait. We're going to expect people to wait seven years to get to market. I don't know that you have that luxury because you have a fair amount of competition. now the other thing is is that your current employees are not in a pension plan anymore they're in a defined contribution plan anybody starts after 2025 has a lower benefit than your employees before that and they are no longer in a pension plan so they have a three percent variability Depending on if they elect to have a 3% contribution, they get a match. And that is very hit and miss. I try really hard to get people to acknowledge how important that is. But there's a lot of people who do not take that additional 3%. Now, that saves you some money budget-wise. But it's also putting one of the long-term things of public service has been how rich that benefit plan was and that there was a defined benefit pay. That defined benefit plan is closed. Nobody is going into that anymore unless they're already in it. So you are contributing less to retirement for new hires than you have before. And I don't that's not built into this model and i don't know how you model your retirement costs but you don't have level retirement costs across the board because you have different costs for sheriff's department and then now you have different costs within the rest of your employees because it depends which plan there is

Another situation, oh, I'm sorry, Nicole, I had a question for you.

Yes.

Yeah, this is Jason here. So like in my situation is a unique one, but like I'm just saying Rhonda's here, she might run across this at some point, that department, all the different departments could see this at some point. I worked for the Ramsey County Highway Department now for 29 years on December 1st. I'd be a supervisor for a year and a half. I'm gonna be maxed out in my, in the superintendent position due to the fact that my years of service pushed me there when I got my new raise, when I took the position. So once again, under this current model, there's no room for growth through a new supervisor who just took a newer position with more responsibility. And it's not just me, it could happen in any department, but I'm just sharing that as an example. When I got looking at this today, The cost of living, the cost of living raises it.

If I give you a 3% cost of living, right?

Yep.

At $40 an hour, I'm just throwing numbers out there. And I have someone that you just hired at $25 an hour. Who gets a better pay raise?

Right. But Wayne, what I'm trying to say is a guy can work here for a month.

It equals out a guarantee.

Because if you took a job here at one year, you get a 3% raise also. So if you've worked here for 30 years or one year, If you take a new position and more responsibility, why don't you get your... You can't start over, though. Because of where my wage was, I was too high to start over.

You didn't start over.

I know that. But then what's my incentive just to get my cost of living raised? I could have stayed at a road foreman and got my cost of living raised.

At some point, you have to have that. Otherwise, you'll go broke.

But you still have to incentivize the help you have.

At some point... Okay, so the state put us on the 3%. The state put us on the 3%, right? Yeah. We can't keep, we can't go out there and say to our patrons, you're going to pay 10% more in taxes because we got to give raises. There's no way.

I understand that.

Never come up.

I understand that part. But when you went from staff surgeon to whatever your rank or however that ever works, there is a increase that comes with that. And then you start within that department to work towards that grade.

I've been maxed out for 10 years.

But in your current position, if you were to go another level up, what would happen? You would go into another pay scale.

Nope, no. I'd go into another pay scale, but I would do just like what happened to you. If I was maxed out in this pay scale, I'm only gonna go to the level, there might only be one more step, just no different than what we did. I understand what you're saying.

Jason is pointing out what is another issue that has happened here, and that is certain jobs And it appears to be certain jobs in one department in particular, instead of maxing out like this is written, they just moved to a higher grade. And so the grading in those jobs is off because they all seem to be graded higher than their peers.

Oh, right. Yes.

What should have happened in those situations is that you get to a point where you probably are at the max of your scale, and then you have to sit there and tell as we move the scales, the scales move with you, and you are not always going to have a lot of increase because you hit the max. And part of it is not everyone stays long-term. Now, in my list of things that we need to talk about, One of the things you need to look at is that you have some very long-term employees and there are some ways to look at them, positive ways to show appreciation to those employees and still stay within a budget and continue to give some level of increase to those employees. But what should happen when you get a promotion is that you should go up a certain amount or percent, but you don't stay at the step you're at because your years of service are not in that position. So if you are in a job that's at $35 an hour and in your new role, $35 an hour is, say, a grade 10, you would either get, say, a 5% or 6% increase, whatever you decide that is, or go to the new, the next step right beyond that. And normally you get the greater of whichever that is. That isn't necessarily how this has been working in the county because you've been giving people these jumps as if they had all the years of service in the new job. And that's not how steps are set up to work. They're set up that you go to the entry point and then you move forward to wherever your candy land card tells you to go and then you get the better of one or two options. But you don't get to go all the way to the line of of where you had been, because your years of service aren't comparable. Now, that's how this kind of model works, but I'm not finding where there's necessarily directions for that. The other thing is, you don't necessarily get a whole cola and get this. because part of what this has built into it is a little bit of that cola model or a little bit of that are we going to do this as our cola like is the step the cola or are we going to do something that is a smaller cola and then the step so it's not very clear which model you're using and that's what i'm saying you're using so many different kinds of models that you've kind of just made a mud pie here and and i will help put together whatever it is that you want but i don't think you need a 25 step thing that you know can be easily confusing and it's really hard to budget with because I don't think you have a big enough system to support it.

And when we went with all these people around, we basically took the years of service in the county and threw them right out the window. Well, we all did.

Right.

Daniel did, you did, the office did, the sheriff did. So you can take this as far as I'm concerned, throwing away. Yeah, I agree. Here's a service don't mean squat. Like when you got your promotion, part of that reason was is our last HR, and I'm going to throw him under the bus, did not put the 3% in where it was modeled to be. And if he would have did that, we could have taken where you were, would have showed a bigger number, so then it would have looked like you went to a different step instead of going right to the max. Well, yeah, because he just moved. Because it was never... Didn't do his job. It's freaking simple.

And the thing is, and I've told you this before, very few people know enough about all the different aspects of HR to do all those things. I spent... very specific amount of time in compensation that I was able to even dig out kind of what this is. And so, I mean, I've spent, I've been a comp manager for many years and know the theories behind comp because I've studied comp. You've got to understand what all the pieces are and you've got to know different models. And so if you just take and start making your own assumptions, everybody gets to make their own assumptions and if you were like well i get to do one thing like i used to do and i get to do one thing this is where we where we end up and the years of service has very much been diluted in certain cases because we've said well it's hard to hire but what is our definition of hard to hire and what is our definition of oops of who gets to be the you get more money because you're hard to hire because that is true case in the when i used to work for community first bank shares technology was really a hard area to get people to work in so we had a pay scale that was separate just for technology it was called our x scale and so we had different scales from where you lived so colorado had a scale north dakota had a scale all these but then on every one of those skills we also had an x scale which was a higher percent for every one of those grades because that was the premium we paid for technology mid-2000s, right? And so depending on what you're trying to do, but you can't just lump everything into the same thing always.

What's your suggestion to fix this, Nicole? How do we move forward?

One of the options is to look at going to a 20-year scale that just has a 2% at every level. I think that there's probably some clarity and some fairness in there. I think you're going to need to look at those people who are maxed out. They are normally called red circle salaries. Often, they do not get their entire salary added on to their salary. They get a lump sum payment of some sort. They don't continue to annuity their salary. It's essentially paid as a bonus. Most of the time, I see that broken up. They don't get it all at the beginning of the year because why would you give them their entire raise for the year at the beginning of the year? Normally you want them to have to work for a little bit of it, but they're still getting something. They just don't get it adding on. If the salary range catches them, they get some of it. I think your current budgeting cycle with the limits that you have, What I told Blake earlier today is I only think that we need to get these salaries into 2027, which means they need to really be aged or moved essentially 6%, which is actually a little bit more than 6%. They need to move up three for 2026 and then three on top of that. So it's a little bit more than 6%. That really only is affecting a handful of people because so many people got something in addition to what kind of was planned in some way or another. So there's not that many people that really need an adjustment to get even with STEP, we've got a lot of people beyond.

But it would fix the chart, correct?

it would fix the chart and once it does that it's going to shake up everybody's step again but i don't i don't know how important having steps are to you um one of the other things that i read said that you if you go to a 20 year that you only do um

You maybe do COLA every year, but you do any evaluation beyond the COLA.

For those early entry people, you do that every year. It's maybe not always a lot of money. And then you do it every other for the people that are higher in their range because they're already making more. And in this case, many of them are on your richer retirement plan. But I think right now we only have about two to two and a quarter percent of total anything to work with. And so I think we need to do that mostly as a COLA just to move these salaries to get them organized. I don't think there is necessarily money to plan to do a whole lot more than that. Because I just don't know where the money is going to save that to do more than I don't know where you're going to have a 3% if you have a 3% limit on everything.

So could you put that model together so we could see it on our next meeting? Like have the chart fixed?

When is your next meeting? August 4th? So that we can physically see it and we would know what it would look like. As long as I know the assumptions that you want and we can go through some questions that people have. And if there's anything anybody who really disagrees, I especially would like to hear why you're disagreeing and what questions you have. And if anybody's talking, I can't hear. No. Does anybody have any questions for?

Crickets. No. I thought water was complicated.

Well, it's because the chart hasn't been updated for a couple of years.

Well, I got a question. Yeah. Rhonda, is the social service still with this company?

We just are processing the zone changes and they did 3% for anyone who was meeting expectations and was done with their probationary period. which is six months, right, Rhonda?

Yep, yep, that's right.

And then a 2% for anyone that's in training or a couple other things. But so in general, they had about a 3% increase across the board. It's based on performance. That was legislated. It's based on performance. Yeah, yeah. ACHIEVING TO GET UP 3% IF YOU DON'T GET IT.

THAT'S RELATIVELY PRETTY AVERAGE. I MEAN, IT JUST GOES UP OR YOU REALLY GOT TO SCREW UP TO LOSE IT?

YEAH, 3, 2, AND 1%. IT'S BASED ON COMPLIANCE MEASURES.

WHICH DON'T ALWAYS WORK. PARDON ME? WHICH DON'T ALWAYS WORK.

WELL... IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO'S MAKING IT.

Salary schedule in the world is always going to work for everybody. They just don't.

So my question for you, Nicole, still is, would there be a possibility to put something together for our next meeting so that we can see what the true figure should look like on this chart so that we know where we need to go as far as a cohort? Right. Because the way it is now, we don't know.

Well, what do you want me to move the chart for 20 cents? I'm not tracking.

And you suggested that, I think it was a two and a quarter percent, right?

Well, originally I had moved everything free because you said that all the past. See, the thing is, is you have to decide if you're leaving with your salaries for the next year or you're dragging your salaries home. So are we going to drag last year's homework? into this year and we're not going to change our charts right are we going to pull old salary forward if we don't move the charts until we decide to pull and then it doesn't really come into effect until it's retro that's easier to have budget and that's easier to do things with because you have one thing set is it great for hiring probably not are we hiring into ones twos and threes anyhow no so why are we using them i don't know I'm not the one who created the 25-grade chart. But if we're going to move the data, and that's why I said to you, what you move your chart and what your COLA is in my world, those have never been the same thing. We got directions to move the chart occasionally, maybe every 30 years, but we never just moved our chart with COLA because why do you have to have this whole big chart if it moves with COLA all the time? What is the point? Everything is just moving all at the same time.

I think the biggest reason something like this was brought to the commission's attention, because there was time where they didn't do a COLA. But I guess that all depends on what the budget allows. I mean, years ago, way before my time, there was times where there wasn't COLA, there wasn't pay raises. And even at my job, there was times where there wasn't funding there to do that. And that's my greatest fear is, Are we coming to that again because of how we got capped at the 3%?

Well, if I could make a recommendation, I would highly like to see Nicole up here to explain this. And I would like to have it done at a special meeting where it's not a full commission meeting. And maybe even to further break it down is to maybe come up with a salary benefit committee that can work with the coal to work through this process. Because we've been discussing this for 45 minutes, and now we're nowhere closer than where we were when we started. I agree. And really, timing is of the essence. If we have to have a preliminary budget done by the 10th of August, and we're not deciding on what a COLA is for anybody yet, how is anybody supposed to work on a budget? Well, I can tell you what other counties are doing.

If you talk about raises, that department does not get a raise. I know three counties that are doing it. They want a base budget. You come in, and I'm going to use yours because you have lots of money that comes and goes. If I say we're going to do 3% and all of a sudden we come in and boom, we're $500,000 over, are we going to go after Jason because he has the largest budget and say, Jason, guess what? You need to cut your budget because Rhonda has a small budget. She can't cut budget. We need to know what the base budget is. I understand this 100%. And I've been telling you guys it's messed up. It is. But nobody will listen. We just want to give a step. Let's give 3%. And pretty soon people's taxes are at $10,000. And we're going to be in the Grand Forks situation because that's what's happening. They went from $10,000 to $15,000 in one year because a mess. And that's what I think. I don't want to be there. I think we need to fix it now before we get there. And it wouldn't be fair to Jason to say he has to give up $400,000 or even to the patrons that he's trying to look at what you're dealing with now. Imagine giving up $400,000. And I'm just using a fictitious number.

Right.

But that could come down someday. That's why this needs to be fixed. And I agree with you, Jeff. We've been talking about this. And yeah, we probably should have a special meeting so that we can get it fixed. And I'm cool with whatever. It's just, I know that this is broke. That's all I'm saying.

This is definitely broke.

Well, two minutes.

What was that Nicole?

I've already prepped what just a 1, 2, and 3% goal are, because that's each map. It's the step and the movement on the ranges that is what we really need to work on. So I would say that the department has needed to only work on 2% as their maps. And that other 0.25 or 0.5 is going to be the internal equity adjustments that we need to do to get this back in range. But I don't think anybody can plan or prep on anything higher than 2%.

And if we come in at that base budget and there's a home, that's why it's a preliminary, and we're way below, then we can come back and say, okay.

No, no, no. We can go down, but we can never go up from that preliminary level.

Well, I've yet to see it. I've yet to see it come into effect.

I've never known. That's why we're... Yeah.

What do you mean you can't go up from a base budget?

No. You can't. Once you set your preliminary budget, you cannot go up from that. You can bring it down between August 10th and October 6th. Between September and October, you can bring it down, but you can't go up from that preliminary because we have to send out. Tax statements. Based on that, right? No, no, no, no tax statements, but no estimates either. No instruments don't have to go out either now, no. That went to the wayside. We still have to come up with a preliminary budget, correct? You have to come up with a budget. Yeah.

But that went to the wayside. Now, August is where you have to send a notification to all of the taxpayers, letting them know of everybody's budget hearings.

So the estimate.

The estimate.

They don't want to call it that. Yeah.

And we have to send out a notice of when we're going to have our preliminary budget here.

Or our budget here. Sorry.

Yeah.

So your advice that I'm hearing from you, Nicole, was a 2% and then work on this chart, which could be

going to definitely be more because you have to have your adjustments that's what she's getting but i think it's going to be within that next half to one percent i mean it's got to be three i don't know how you possibly i don't know that you have any option to go over that do you well as long as the overall budget is lowered

but what are you cutting exactly that's exactly what i've been saying yeah you can't just keep adding on the end right and i hate to give the heads a number because i know exactly you're going to tell me i get five percent i'm going to go back and say you don't get this you don't get this because damn well i'm going to give my employees five percent am i wrong do we got department heads sitting here am i wrong You're not going to cut yourself out of 5%, would you?

Well, we just got a tenant to cut 3%, so $280,000 in the budget yesterday.

And that's what I'm saying, because that's what you were directed to do.

But why would you cut salaries?

I didn't say to cut salaries. What I'm saying is you need to know what it takes. You wouldn't cut salaries.

But you're saying a percentage, okay? But we're the ones who are keeping everything going.

So if I have to cut something else out of my budget, I'm going to cut something else out of my budget. And how do you keep the doors open? So I'll tell you how you fix that. I'll tell you how you fix that. Hear me out.

I'll tell you how you exactly fix that. Let's give everybody a 5%. When our budget doesn't come out, I have to come back here and I have to say, I'm sorry, but I have to let somebody go. Am I wrong? But it could happen because we are limited.

We are so understaffed right now.

Yes, but what happens when you're not?

We have never... You can't look at that.

You're understaffed.

Bullshit!

I'm done talking about this. You guys decide.

Was it Jeff that made... OR HAD A QUESTION OR ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION ABOUT HAVING A SEPARATE MEETING. I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TAKEN TIME ON THIS AND I HOPE THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS MODEL AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT BETTER. I AM HAPPY TO PREPARED A MODEL. model do you want? Do you want to maintain this model? Do you want a more simplified model?

We'd like more simplified, please.

Because it will be easier on the department.

It would be easier on everybody, I think.

It will be easier on everybody.

Yeah. Do we have a motion for that? If you'd like it to be one, I so move.

I will second. So the motion is to a less complicated going forward. Correct, Jeff?

Yep. But less complicated salary schedule.

All those in favor by saying aye.

Aye.

Carries. Thank you, Nicole.

When would you like to have a meeting?

Let's get a date.

Well, let's... How soon can you put something together?

How soon I can put it together, how soon I travel. I can travel like two different things here, so... Do you have any other special meetings already set that we could piggyback off of that I could zoom into that would work?

We don't have any special meetings. The only meeting that we have coming up would be our next commission meeting.

Unless you wanted to schedule a special meeting.

Right.

I think that's what we're asking, to schedule a special week. I mean, the day that you'd like to call.

Did you hear that, Nicole? What time of the day would work for you?

Good morning. I could maybe come on Monday, the 27th, if that would work. I'd have to get a lot of work done before then, but I think I could get at least preliminary pieces done if you guys could make something work on Monday.

What time would you like?

I'll probably come up Sunday night, so it doesn't matter. Eight or later.

Okay. What do you guys want? 8 a.m.? Yeah. 8 a.m., if that works.