Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Sorry. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Matt Comar and I'm the chair of the planning commission for city of Campbell. Um and the planning commission meeting will be conducted in person and virtually via video te teleconferencing zoom in compliance with the provisions of the Brown Act. Commissioner Ostroski will be attending remotely at 500 hotel circle in San Diego. A quorum of the planning commission will be attendance at the city of at the city hall at the camel city hall. Members of the public may attend this meeting in person at Campbell City Hall or virtually via Zoom at uh httpscamboca.govpc [Music] signup. Meeting will be live stream on channel 26 of the city's website and on YouTube at youtubeell. Uh written correspondence will be accepted via email at the planning at planning campellca.gov until 12:00 p.m. of the day of the meeting and therefore may be delivered and thereafter may be delivered in person at the public hearing. Uh written correspondence will be posted to the city's website and distributed to the planning commission. If you choose to email your comment, please indicate the subject on in the subject line for public comment and indicate the item number. Members of the public may be allotted up to two minutes to comment on any hearing or uh study session. Applicants, appalants and the representative may be allotted up to five minutes for opening statements and up to a total of three minutes maximum for closing statements. Items requested recommended for

continuous are subject to planning commission's consent at the meeting. Okay. Um so can we have a roll call please? Commissioner Scissor uh here. Commissioner Majuski present. Commissioner present here. Fields present

present. Thank you for that. Uh so next to the minutes approval of the minutes. Uh this would be for August 12, 2025. Has everyone had a chance to review the minutes? Any changes? Seeing none, can I may I make a motion to approve the minutes of August 12th, 2025? Okay, we have a motion and a second. The roll call, please. Commissioner Scissor, I. Commissioner Muski, abstain. Commissioner Stroski, I abstain. Commissioner I, Commissioner Fields. Hi,

Chair Conqueror. I thank you for that. Next, we go to communications. here camcar. Uh, no communications, no agenda modifications or postponements. Okay. Regarding agenda modifications, can we flip two of the items coming up? And that would I know we talked ahead of time. Just make clear that would be items three and four. Item three and four. you know. Um, is there a motion to flip them so that we can hear the commissioner subcommittee first and then the commendation? Motion. No.

So moved. So moved. Okay. Second. Second. Thank you. Motion and a second. Uh, all those in favor? I. All those against? Seeing none, Maggie. I'm in favor.

Thank you. Thank you. Um, okay. So, next we go to oral communications. This portion of the meeting is reserved for individuals wishing to address the planning commission on matters of committee concern that are not listed on the agenda. In the interest of time, the chair may limit speakers to five minutes. Please be aware that state law prohibits the commission from acting on or uh acting on non-aggendas items. However, the chair may refer the matters to staff for followup. Are there anybody here for um oral communications? Seeing none, how about online? Okay, thank you for that. So, the next item would be public hearing. This would be for 651 West Hamilton Avenue, sweet 1000 conditional use permit. public hearing to consider the application of Jeffrey Eaton to allow establishment of a small fitness studio DBA Lux Lift with daily uh early morning hours beginning at 500 a.m. late night activities on the ground floor of a mixeduse building, Alvin's Corner, on property located at 651 Hamilton Avenue, Sweet 1000. The application under consideration is a conditional use permit file number PLN2025-74. Staff is recommending that this item be categorically from SECO. Planning Commission action is final unless appealed in writing to the city council within 10 calendar days. Project Planner Marissa Lissa. Sorry. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Chair. Um, uh, Assistant Planner Lissa, uh, presenting an item prepared by senior planner Daniel Fema. This is item two, which is a conditional use permit, uh, PLN 2025-74. Uh, so, as mentioned, uh, the project site is at 651 West Hamilton Avenue. It is a uh it's zoned as CPD with a general plan land use designation of general commercial mixeduse. It's currently developed with a mixeduse building with ground floor commercial and upper floor residential with about four stories total. And it's located on the northwest corner of Santaas Expressway in Hamilton Avenue. The proposal, as mentioned, is for an appointmentbased fitness studio. Uh it has uh late night hours uh with operational hours beginning at 5 o'clock a.m. Uh the studio will provide a uh activities such as one-on-one training, small groupoup sessions, and also appointmentbased access to equipment and facilities. And the maximum will be uh 12 participants at any given time. As you can see on the project or on the slides, uh the proposed uh interior project plans includes a fairly open floor plan with some office space um that will be accessed um from uh the which which is part of the building here on the northwest corner. Um that will be accessed by the uh appointment services as described in the project description. Uh this use is classified as a small studio because it will have a maximum of 12 participants at any time which requires a conditional use permit when the studio occupies 20% or more of a uh general commercial shopping center or property. Uh the code also defines late night activity as any activity occurring

outside the hours of 6:00 am to 11 pm. So with a 5:00 start time, uh this use will qualify as late night activities and therefore requires a conditional use permit. Uh some key considerations as further described in the staff report for the planning commission are the late is the late night activity uh determining um if the five o'clock operating time is permissible with the conditions that have been put in place. Uh if the use of the studio is compatible with the generally uh ground flooror commercial uh makeup of the property. Uh if the planning commission believes the noise management conditions put in place and the conditional use permit are uh um and uh whether or not the site can maintain adequate parking as further described in the staff report which the site does provide. Uh therefore, based on uh the staff report and the presentation, uh staff does recommend that the planning commission adopt a resolution approving a conditional use permit to allow the establishment of this of a small fitness studio uh with late night activities, which is BLM 202574 and I'll take questions at this time.

Okay, thank you very much. Are there any questions for staff? Can we start from that end? Thank you. Um, I just want to say you've already answered all the questions I have. So, thank you. I I wanted to know why this needs CU. Thank you for including that. No questions. The 20% one, so it's over 20. It's about 26%.

And the property is it like in is it the property of that apartment complex, not like the whole parking lot also with Starbucks? It's all the ground floor commercial. So it would include uh the Starbucks and all the ground floor of the property and the shopping center. Yes. So any ground floor commercial would be included in that calculation.

Got it. Okay. Okay. And are they Well, this is an applicant question, but like are they going to do classes starting at 5? Because we had another one of these a while back that was fitness, but they were actually just going to open and like do cleanup and stuff at 5 a.m. Does it is it like operating at 5? Um, based on the project description, my understanding is a is a possibility, but the applicant is here also to answer that question. Thank you. Alan, do you have any questions? Um, just just a note, you said it's the northwest corner. Uh, I think it's the northeast corner. That's correct. Okay. Sorry, I have a thing about you. It's northeast corner of the intersection or the or the property. It's it's on the norththeast corner of the mixeduse area

property of the property. Okay. But it's the northwest corner of the intersection, right? Yeah. Yeah. What was Oh, it's the northwest corner of the inter interction. But but I thought you Oh, maybe I misread that. Oh, we got it. We know where it is. Okay. Um it's underneath the edge of the property.

Uh by the way, I I I did go there and take a look at the property. Um so uh yeah my only question was going to be about the noise stuff but your your um your pres your agenda covers all the issues associated with noise so I I don't see anything there that I had a real question was because there is a residence right above right so there's this noise limitation on 70 approximately 70 dB is that correct 75

75 okay and Um we have a although we can't monitor it continuously we we have a stipulation that if there are complaints that it'll come to us right um that's correct uh as uh seen on the conditions of approval uh if the city receives verified noise complaints the business owner shall cooperate with the city to prepare a noise mitigation plan. Okay. Okay. Um that's all I had. Okay. Thank you. Um just yeah I did I go by this site almost every day but um I don't have any questions there I'll answer it. Okay wonderful.

I've also been by the site and I don't have any questions. Okay wonderful. Sorry if we should mention this. I used to go to Penny Lane all the time for um for FYO. Not in a while though.

Okay. Um, as for myself, um, um, I also had the question regarding the noise. The, um, study, um, I guess they, uh, the study started at 95 dB and it was too high. Um, but 95 dB, that's really loud, isn't it? I mean, you know, what would be what would be an example of something that generates 95 dB? So 95 is the standard um as put forth by um this group have their name NOISH. So 95 is the max decibb that you can experience for one hour before it starts to impair hearing.

Uh examples of other appliances or other items that could be a 94 dBA would be in the kitchen, kitchen blenders, food processors or hair dryers outside would be power mowers, a motorcycle at 25 ft or an electric drill. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, 95 is a lot. We're eliminating to 75, right? That's correct. I I looked it up and and 75 70 75 is like if TV is on at medium volume. Oh, okay. That seemed good by me. No, that is what the residents will hear, not the noise inside the studio. Is it

75 will be the source noise and then the resultant noise uh is going to be no more than 45 which is the city's code standard. I see in the in the studios above. Correct. Got it. Got it. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Um I have no other questions. Uh and if and no other questions. Okay. I just

about the the hours. I just, you know, I I realize I Commissioner Fields asked this thing because we did have this thing before where they were going to actually have people in the studio at 5:00 a.m. which which seemed to me seemed to us that necessity they were going to be showing up earlier. Okay. And so we actually made it for 44 I think we made it for 4:45. So we usually have two different operating hour stuff here. we have the the operating hours of business and then the customer hours. We do we don't have that. So, um I guess we can ask the applicant when they come up about that, but I just wanted to make it

correct. 5:00 a.m. is the operational is the start time as listed on this conditional use permit and in the project description. So, that would include staff and or Okay. participants. So, no earlier than 5 am opening. Correct. Okay, thank you. Okay, this is a good segue into um asking the applicant to come up and give us a presentation. Open the public hearing. Is the applicant here? Public hearing. Open the public hearing. Yes, I have to open the public hearing. Thank you very much. Please uh identify yourself and Sure. You wish to.

Good evening everybody. My name is Jeffrey Eden. I'm the architect for the applicant. So not the applicant by virtue of my name on the application. Sure. my clients were not able to attend tonight, so I'm here on their behalf. Sure. And thank you, Lissa, for answering all those really good technical questions. Um, so I'm here to answer any additional questions that you have. Um, that pertain So the hours, um, you know, if you could please say something about the hours. So, as Lorissa pointed out, the the classes would start no earlier than 5. The staff that arrives will not be making any noise prior to opening the doors for for clients at 5:00. So, the staff are coming a little earlier,

minutes earlier to set up, you know, staging weights and things like that. But no, no noise generation, things like that. But at 5:00 a.m. is when the classes will start. So is the first. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Go ahead. For the sound volume, the report mentions like you know that there's not any way we're like monitoring the sound. Mhm. Is is the decibel like does the system have any volume limit that you all are going to set on it so that you just couldn't crank it past a point where it gets louder than that? So what the what they've talked about doing is testing the level of the sound system which isn't even installed yet. Sure.

And then identifying what 75 dB is because nobody knows until you crank it up. So they're they want to ID that and identify that for all staff. this is the limit of the of the volume of our classes. Is that something that they can like lock in the system or is it sort of still a I don't know the specs of their sound system and that sounds pretty advanced. Some some have the capable I mean today right today that's probably a thing but I don't have the answer whether it does or not. I don't know the specs of the sound system yet but I but the other part I mentioned which is training staff to know what level. Yeah. Great. Wonderful. Any other questions?

I just, you know, in just in terms of understanding what this place is, is are there going to be workout machines and and weight and weights and anything else? Yeah. I mean, the classes revolve around weightlifting. So, as Lissa showed you in the uh the sketch, there's a rack system, you know, for squat rack and things like that. Um there are free weight areas. There's a um some I'll call it boxing apparatus and things like that for a little cardio and then there's open space for more cardio and those types of fitness and stretching and things like that. Okay.

So, it's it's not a I would call this a boutique boutique gym and it's by appointment. It's very, you know, it's for people who want to spend a little money to have a little more privacy and a little more specialized instruction. So, okay. It's not the big open gym and everybody's showing off and and is it like oneon-one one instructor one or not? There'll be classes. There'll be some group classes but very small as Lissa pointed out 12 is the max you know occupancy. So they'll have classes of of a few and but not there are some one to one for sure. There's trainer and and so the 12 includes staff. No, the 12 includes staff um in occupancy, right? Or no, it does.

I think it did. No, I think that's the number of participants and then there's staff, but again, even at a onetoone, you know, they're not I trust me, they're not going to have like six people training six more people, you know, it's it's it's a couple of trainers at most. So, Got it. Yeah. Uh Commissioner Ostruski, do you have any questions? I don't have any questions. Okay. It was a a in-depth uh review. Thank you. Yeah, Lissa always does a great job. Okay. Um uh if there are no other questions, thank you very much. Thanks everybody. Appreciate it. Thanks so much. So

I would like to um just make some clarifications. So in the staff report there will be two full-time trainers and one part-time administrative staff at site. So that will be in addition to the 12 participants. Got it. In the project description uh that the applicant provided, they also mentioned that their sound system was capable of having uh equalization settings which would adjust the frequencies of any audio playback to ensure 75 would be the uh decel level. Perfect. C can I ask one more question? Yeah.

So because this is part of a a development, right? mixeduse development. Was there any process? Did the did the business have to get approval from some development group that or the management group that manages the uh the the development more than likely as um they would have to sign a lease with the property owner or with the management company. It's operates as an apartment complex, so there's no HOA, but there would be a management group that would oversee this type of uh incoming of businesses. Great.

Okay. Um, are there anyone online that want to ask any questions? Okay, then don't see any. Um, then um I can close public hearing. and commission discussion. Anybody have any thoughts or any motions?

I would just say that, you know, it really makes a lot of sense uh this project. I don't see any problems. It was really a really interesting noise study report in the report really in depth. I couldn't believe that. Uh but as I was thinking this, you know, uh there are residents there and they could conceivably be impacted by the noise. Certainly right above that and uh and by the way, there is a need. I know I don't have to tell you guys that there actually is a need for something like this at 5:00 a.m. Believe it or not, there's a good subset of people that need that. But uh but the thing is we there's so many safeguards in our report. uh if the if a neighbor complains the studio must do a mitigation plan as Lissa said, but also if the complaints continue, then the staff looks at it and could potentially take away. So I think there's plenty of safeguards in the unlikely case that there are some residents that are really impacted by this. I think it's fine. Thanks.

And this designation goes with the business. So if the business is sold, the next operator has to comply with the same conditions. Wonderful. Okay. Um, any other thoughts?

No, I just I just, you know, it's it it's similar to the one that seems similar to the one that we approved for downtown a year or so ago, the boutique uh work out thing. Of course, this is different in that there's residents above. So, to me, that's a more sensitive issue, and it looks like uh all the bases were covered on that. And I was just actually I haven't been over to Penny Lane and Alton's Corner there. So I was like uh they filled up most of the spaces and it's uh it's looks pretty nice. So I I'm in favor. Okay. Is there a motion?

You hold on. I'll make I'll make a resolution city Campbell granting approval of a conditional use permit to allow small fitness studio with daily early morning hours beginning at 5:00 a.m. late night activities on the ground floor of a mixeduse building Aldam's Corner on property located at 651 West Hamilton Avenue sweet 1000 file number PLN 2025-74 second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Uh, can we do a roll call, please? Commissioner Scissor. Hi. Commissioner Vuski, I. Commissioner Saskki, I. Commissioner Crrame. Hi. Mr. Bucklander.

Hi. Vice Pastor Fields. Hi. Chair Camcart. I. Okay. That motion passes unanimously. Congratulations. All right. Next item is new business and it would be uh the subcommittee reports. Um Commissioner Okay. Is this Commissioner Craig? Get the PowerPoint up. Yeah. schools. We're looking at this one, right?

It's still dated the 22nd of July. Yeah, that's what it says.

Okay. Fellow commissioners and staff. Um I'll try to I apologize it's a little long, but um I'll try to move quickly through it. Okay. It's a subcommittee report on notifications and outreach of development projects. So, this was intended to look like Can we go to the introduction or the overview? Okay. So, we're going to we're going to uh we're going to give a little introduction on we're going to talk about notifications and also websites uh uh info on notifications outreach not we're also going to talk about uh about the uh notification uh email signup and then we're going to have some conclusions and recommendations. So I can go to the introduction. So uh next slide. Okay. So so uh we we uh we we found that um that at times Campbell residents have complained to the planning commission and the council of being unaware of a new development um that's come along that's near the property. Uh so we we decided to do the subcommittee to uh to look at other uh local municipalities um to see what their process is as well as looking at not just the notifications but also what the outreach that we do as well as other cities with regard to um um their websites and uh and uh how they can um how they can be uh involved in in

getting uh uh notifications uh by email or other means. Uh so uh so so it's kind of a three-prong thing and um we uh we looked at not only the county but uh and Campbell but we looked at Certino Los Morgan Hill, city of Santa Clara uh Saratoga and Palto. So, if we can go to um next slide, notifications. So, we're going to look at the state law. We're going to talk about mail notification processes that differ uh time timing notifications that differ uh uh notifications for ministerial approval and on-site development signs. Next page. So, the state law um is 65090-94. By the way, uh Busher and Craig did a lot of uh work on this uh especially on the notifications area. So if he wants to jump in at any time, please do. Mike. Um so this provides the basic required notifications. The laws basically uh require mail notifications to property owners within 300 uh foot radius for any development subject to a permit or discretionary approval. the mail notification processes that differ from state. Um, Campbell adheres to 300 foot radius. Uh, however, other cities uh have uh have moved to a a a a bigger radius of typically 500 to 600 feet and many go even farther for larger projects. Uh, and I think uh I believe it's like we have extended it in particular in some circumstances on on occasion. Um, next next slide. Timing notices uh that differ from state law. Gamble sends an initial not uh courtesy

notice within four days. Um, other others mail notices at a later date but prior to state requirement. Most adhere to the state requirement. Um, so we actually are an exception here in terms of doing it um sooner than most at least in terms of courtesy notice. Um so so uh the those that received the mail notices it the all agencies mail their notices to property owners and uh and any others who have expressed interest including neighborhood groups uh other stakeholders that get on the list. Um and then uh some also notify to the property address. So the requirement um is only to go to property owners usually but since um for example Campbell is is is exact almost exactly 50% renters. So renters don't necessarily get notified since they're not the property owner. So, when it's a property owner, it would go to a if they're renting the property, that would go to the um property owner's mail address, which could be, you know, somewhere else, including being somewhere else in the country. Um so, um but there are some there are some cities that notify uh at the property address as well. Next, uh next slide. Notifications for ministerial approval projects. uh because of many new state laws as we all know uh the use with the use of objective standards many more projects are now going to be ministerial which aren't generally subject to notification requirements however some cities in the county have enacted policies to require

notification in certain cases such as SP9 ADU ADUs things like Yeah, I have a question. Yeah. Uh, so you're saying for SP9s there would be notification of the neighbors? I didn't know that. No, I'm we're saying that some some cities are doing that notification even though it's not uh necessarily a requirement because it's min if it's ministerial. Um, is that right? Yeah, ministerial. Interesting.

So even when there's a ministerial there there there are some some cities that are um including circumstances where they would be notified anyway and that could be whether a hot split uh ADUs things like that. We'll get into that a little bit later. Okay. Um on-site uh next next uh on-site development signs. Um there is a there is no actual um uh requirement from the state for signs on site except um in lie of a a newspaper ad um which is the the standard. So, you know, we we always we always have a requirement to put in a newspaper ad. You know, it's usually in the metro, which is just kind of a a you know, requirement that not necessarily people are going to see. So, um so, uh but there are a lot of cities we're we're actually the exception to not normally using signage um except in rare instances. Uh and then a various agencies vary their requirements of of when they put up signage and this is the signage that would be on the site to notify people on the street. Um next next uh so so that's that's um that covers most of the notification requirements. So, so the next thing that we did is we wanted to look at um what what's what Campbell does and other cities do in terms of providing information uh on on their websites as a as an outreach to the community. Obviously, none of there's no no really real real requirements for putting information on

on the websites, but uh mo the county and most cities uh provide um uh a lot of information on their websites, often using the GIS, almost all of them using the GIS maps. Actually, the the exception is really that the county doesn't really have GS GIS maps for projects. They have it for just about everything else, but not so much for new projects. Um the problem with the web almost without exception uh the problem with the websites, it's not easy for people who um are lay people who aren't familiar with the city's uh uh operations to find um find these maps or any other information on projects because they don't necessarily know where to look. They don't know what a community development department is. They don't know it necessarily would be in planning. And for the most part, these are you have to go to uh the community development page or the planning page to find these. Um very few actually have anything on the homepage. A lot of the cities have this menu item that says, you know, uh um a link that you know for um what they what you want and then it's a long menu item. But almost none of the cities actually have something on that menu, that drop down menu that says, you know, recent projects. So um so usually you can't you have to know where to go. Yes.

So um my understanding was that when you say project, is that completed project or or like proposals to do a project? Well, we're we we're talking primarily about new projects that come in. So an when an application an application comes in for for a new project

now there there are stuff on websites where they have completed projects as well but but this was focused on the idea that when a new project comes along and it's an application and it's like where people can go to find the information about these new projects that are that are in their neighborhood and in the city. So, so then you know I'm sorry a follow-up question. So my understanding was while you're in planning information will not be given out to um to the residents because you haven't held a public public hearing.

Well that's not true. The the the the a development project they submit a preliminary application which is private which is private. I don't think uh director does the does the department share let's say if I as a developer come in say I want to build you know so many condos you don't share that with the public right away right you have to wet it first you have to go through that first order how does that work actually do yeah commissioner Craig actually asked me about this we have a um email list anyone can sign up for um which uh when applications come in, we notify the public that we've received the application. Oh, okay.

To early notification, just so folks are aware. Um and we actually do send out early notification. It's not codified in code, but planners have a practice of sending out early notification mailers to neighbors within a radius again just to let them know there's been an application for say a cell tower or what what about plans and you know reports and things like that? Do you also share that? Those can be accessed usually from our website link. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I didn't know that.

Yeah. Once the what I saw on all cities was that it the early applications whatever information that was submitted by developer seems to be there. Not only the letter but whatever preliminary plans they've included in the preliminary application. Got it. Is available. Interesting. Okay. Great.

The problem is getting to that. Uh so um so as I was saying it's not uh the big problem with finding on a website it's not always easy for users to uh navigate to the right spot and there's it's not obvious. Okay. Uh and and once you get there in some cases uh it's not uh necessarily um um always broken down properly to see the difference between you know certain kinds of projects for that matter whether it's um um actually go to the next slide. So we actually have about a half a dozen examples of of screenshots in the in the report. I only put up a couple. So this is um Campbell and Campbell is um once you get to this place through the planning through the planning uh page um you get to the GIS map and there's whatever seven tabs um and the one that's most uh the most um relevant tab for for projects is the planning uh the active planning tab. tab, which is the second tab there. And this is the map for it. And if you look at the left hand side, you'll see that uh in my estimation, in our estimation, one of the problems is that it pretty much includes everything. It doesn't narrow it down or or delineate or filter. Uh it shows it shows uh the icons for anything from a a signed permit to a tree removal to a major project. So, um it's it's kind of like everything in the pot. Um it's a nice map, but it's not necessarily the best one we saw. Um, and

then you do uh on the right hand side you see a drop-own menu that shows when you click on one of the icons it gives you it gives you the uh the name of the pro it gives you the number and it it gives you um you can scroll down and find a link to the project plans or whatever information you want. So that's a good thing. That's pretty typical. We go to the the next one which is actually in some respects I think one of the better the city of Morgan Hill. And what's nice about the city of Morgan Hill is they they have a particular GIS map that just breaks down uh substantial projects that are residential, commercial, and industrial. And as you can see on the lefth hand menu, they differentiate those and list them um separately. So, in the in the in the residential area, there's actually uh there's actually 26 items. I only showed four of them, but but you can um you can blow that out and see all the 26 residential uh items that are going on. And the same thing with commercial industrial. So, you get a real nice picture of what's going on in the city. And they're just focused on new major projects in this area. So, so you're not seeing uh you know when somebody wants an an HVAC update or or a permit for a tree removal or whatever. So, this is a one of the nicer examples, if not the nicest examples of using the GIS and and uh and and filtering it and and and breaking it out for for the obvious projects that would be of interest. So I've just shown those two examples but um uh uh there are other examples for instance um Saratoga in the in the

report we show Saratoga which when they don't really have us uh have all projects what they do have is all their builder remedy projects listed on the homepage and on their community development page and and um because they have 20 well the count that I had at at the time was 22 builder remedy projects in Saratoga. And so there was so much um response from the community that they put it up on the website. And what they've done is very nicely they've listed all the the remer's remedy projects and um you can see it on a map and if you click on it they they actually designate an entire page for each builder's remedy project with with uh with pictures and and links to plan the detailed plans uh all aspects of of what's come in on that project. So, so, uh, once people get to that and then and, uh, it it's a little bit more readily available, it shows, uh, I think it's in the in the in their community development page and it's right there on the main menu that people can see all the builder remedy projects. So, so they've done a nice job in terms of um, those specific projects which are the major projects through going potentially going on in Saratoga. And then there's other good examples. City of Mountain View has has like a 3D map and Elto has a number of good aspects to their their information as well as as pretty much uh as well as Losatus. Um we go to the next um the notification. So uh that was covering the website. So the the other thing we wanted to look at is is like um if you want to find out more and you

want to sign up for a regular email, what what can a a resident do? So uh there's all uh we re we researched all the cities and uh for their type of sign up on their websites. Uh and it it varies in terms of there's all kinds of signups. you can get a sign up for any events that are happening, meetings. Um, there's some newsletters that people put out. So, there's all kinds of signups. Um, uh, the problem is sometimes again finding the signup page is difficult. It's not obvious. Uh, there's no clear, uh, link that's jumps out at you necessarily on the homepage. I think there was one particular city that had a nice big, you know, headline for signups. Um, and I and I uh we couldn't find any any any county, although they may have them that where you can sign up for things from the county other than general stuff. Um um so so some cities offer dozens of signup choices. Campbell has the record. Apparently they have 60 choices. Um, basically what they've done is I think it's part of the standard template for for the the people that um do our websites is um I haven't shown a a screenshot for that but if you want to find it you can look for yourself. Uh it's basically you can sign up for every individual board and commission agenda to come you know to notify you of that. you can you can um so so that alone and then and then there's kind of a duplication where it's not necessarily agenda but it's information about the commission and in another way. Um so so there's literally 60 listings and that you can sign up either for a text

notification or for an email notification. Um, and then there actually is in our case, we do have a one that we all get actually because we're on the commission that that tells us about um new projects that have come in. Um, but it's going to it's hard to find that one. It's it's buried in amongst the 60. So, can we uh move on? Okay, we're at conclusions. Okay. So, um we we we we concluded a number of things. One is that Campbell and all the cities and county go above and beyond their basic state requirements on notifications, but each agency has its own wrinkles. Um, as I indicated, everyone has a little bit different way of taking a look at um at how to do their notifications um depending on in terms of distance and um when and those kinds of things. All the cities and county greatly extend notifications for the most controversial and biggest projects. But for some, including Campbell, the guidelines for this extended notification are subjective. So it's not like codified that we will go to 1,000 ft for this particular kind of project. And that seems to be common. It's like it's it's kind of a subjective decision amongst cities. Um and and then when it comes to signage, we're we're amongst the few cities that really have no on-site signage requirements. Um so the uh the next conclusion is that the big increase in the percentage of projects that are approved ministerially h has been proddding cities and counties to reconsider the noticing process beyond the the legal requirements.

So the question becomes even if it's not required to notify on a ministerial say we we build uh like now we're up to 10 units it could be ministerial 10 units is a lot of units in a neighborhood it's like do you want shouldn't the neighbors be the question is shouldn't the neighbors be notified anyway even if it's not required question yes so let's say you notify the neighbors and they come but the let's say like SB9 or 684 doesn't allow the neighbors to there's no public hearing. I mean, what what can they say? If there's no public hearing, how can they be heard? And so, that's the part I don't quite understand.

Yeah, I would say, let me answer that one, Matt. And that really was the big one of the big wrinkles in all this when we're going through this. old. So, California and all the agencies have over the years developed a pretty pretty good systems for informing public about public hearings because they want the you know we can't have a public hearing if the public doesn't know about it. So, there are a lot of mechanisms. So, the new wrinkle now and it's major major change is used to have this many projects with public hearings. Now you get this many public hearings but you still have that many projects.

Yeah. So, uh, it's and it's something all the planners are are are wrestling with, including Campbell, you know, what kind of, uh, input are you going to get from people when, you know, they there's nothing that they can really do, nothing they could say it's approved already. The state has one reason that, you know, the public hearings and our our system is one reason why so many developments were blocked over the years and why we've run into this big housing crunch that we're in, crisis that we're in. But but now it's a question of and it's really it's it's solely a question of courtesy. Do you think it's better to let these people know now ahead of time, hey, you know, there's going to be an ADU right over your fats. There's going to be a lot split down, you know, down the block. There's going to be 10 units on the corner. Uh even though they can't do anything about it, but at least you've told them. And if you don't tell them, then then it's built and then they'll probably still have the same complaints or maybe there'll be more complaints because hey, why didn't you tell us ahead of time? Why don't you give us some notice? So, uh, some of the cities are specifically uh, some of the I don't want to get the wrong city. I think it's PaloAlto specifically, they do want to notify folks when they're doing ADUs, when they're doing SB9 latitudes. what they're wrestling is with is do they want to notify them before they've officially ministerially approved it or do they want to do it after the fact a little bit after the fact and and it's a it's a conundrum for the planners planning staff to just figure out you know what's going to happen so so your question is exactly you know the question we have are looking at this and go well you know it's really a pretty big change what you know what are you going to do

well I think I think the goal was to I'm sorry go ahead the comfortable. Can we take a step back and like what is the I understand the state has certain requirements and we are all meeting or exceeding that them but like what exactly is the goal here? Like what are we trying to accomplish? Well, we have recommendations, right? But like what is the purpose of those recommendations? Like are we trying to avoid being yelled at by people who um wish they had been notified? you try and um get people to come in and give comment on things which they cannot affect which seems like a poor idea. What What is the

Well, there's two parts to it, Adam. One is for those where they're required to be notified and we found we found that I know of at least two two instances where neighbors complain they didn't get notification. So for those that require still require notification, we want to make sure that the system is working right and or if maybe we need to go farther so that those that will continue to be ones where there's going to be it's going to come in front of the planning commission that the notifications are are there and comprehensive enough to to u make sure that neighbors get their notifications. So that's one thing. The other thing is where there's not a requirement for notification and it's more of a courtesy to our residents. The question is what what should the city do in that respect? Do we do we feel that the that residents I mean you know there there may not be um a a meeting that they come to if somebody's building an ADU two feet from their back fence as we've seen just recently. Maybe uh that resident it would be courtesy it would be courtesy for that resident to know about it such that maybe they can have a discussion with their neighbor about it and and there might be an adjustment that works out between them. So you know to me it's it's it's not about the legal just meeting the legalities. It's a question of what residents feel that they should be able to know about even when it's not coming up in front of a body um to uh get approval for.

Okay. So, so there's two parts there, right? It's one is like make sure the notifications that have to go out are going out, right? and and s you know enough enough you know 300 feet is not a lot necessarily when you consider road widths lot lot sizes um it it it's actually a relatively if you if you take a standard neighborhood of 60 by 100 foot parcels it it it it it's it doesn't cover much of the neighborhood. It's like it's like a block this way, block that way or a half a block on each side and a block on each side. So, it's it's it's there's not a lot of coverage and and in some cases, you know, there's there's streets in the way. So, that actually makes it even a lesser radius, you know, in terms of actually covering, you know, sufficient uh neighbors, you know. So, so a lot of cities have moved beyond 300 ft, you know, to get a better coverage. And so, you know, it's up to the city. We're we're going to recommend, we have some recommendations that if you all agree that those are good recommendations that we'll go to the city council and then they can discuss it with the staff and decide whether or not we want to make some adjustments.

Uh, Commissioner Stroski, please. Uh, so I have a question. Thank you for that very thorough subcommittee uh review. I think it's very done yet. Oh, I thought you were on the conclusion slide. Yeah. Okay. I I was curious if you had recommendations that we could discuss. Yeah, it's the last it's the last page. Oh, okay. Great. All right. So, let's let let's let's just get through the last couple conclusions. Can we turn to page? I think the conclusions areation so we can just go. Okay. So, I'm just going to say

uh the conclusions are cities and county can greatly improve their websites to make easier use easier for users to find basic information. Most of the websites provide helpful GS mapped information. Uh but the finding the resource can be very difficult. Also, cities in the county could improve their email notification signup systems. Um and an example is that Campbell has 60 listings. So to go to the recommendations, we have uh six recommendations. So first I I think you covered I mean I think we could all start reacting to them now. All right. Can can I just real quickly go through the six since I've gone through everything else?

They were in the report you mailed and you talked through them all. I feel like it would be redundant to say them again and we could all start reacting to them.

All right. I I'm hoping everybody has read I I would I would just you know in one case uh we are recommending go extending the the the mailings to a higher radius. We also are consider extending mailings to look for large projects that would be based on you know for like a commercial project possibly by be based on on square footage unless the staff has better ideas square footage. If it's a large square foot thing and it's a new commercial then it's like okay what's the square footage that would extend the notifications or in the case of residential certain number of of units might be the break point. Um and then I think on uh I don't know uh we we also um we we also are recommending going to uh street addresses not just the owners because of many many people rent and that we believe that any resident would be notified whether they're a renter or an owner. Um and then I think uh the the last one was you know as far as Campbell's concerned is to take a look at our signup list which is 60 items and and do some possible consolidation and uh to to make it uh a more concise list of choices that will cover every every possible thing without having 60. So that's the recommendations. I

just say one one point is kind of an important one is one one there's so much area we covered we just couldn't do everything. So we did not look at costs the whole issue of what it would cost the city in some cases what it might potentially cost the developer as well. And I know we're trying to cut developer costs. So we just left that out of the equation because that was just too much.

Yeah. I think that that would be something that staff would want to um determine in terms of, you know, how much more it's going to cost them to do notifications to five or 600 feet or 1,000 feet. You know, what's what's the what's the out-of- pocket cost on that kind of thing or the and resource cost, but that's something that we're not going to uh uh put on them or make a decision about.

That's it. I'll also just say and I think maybe Ellen did but every city every and the county they they've all grappled with this issue uh in the past and kind of continually Santa Clara was just making changes as we were studying this. Rob himself has worked on it when he was with the county. Uh so it's it's an issue for all jurisdictions that's kind of an ongoing thing and as they all said you're never going to be 100%. You're never going to get there's always going to be somebody who didn't hear something that they should have heard and something's going to fall through the cracks. Usually, it's not the city's fault, but still, it's going to happen. So,

there's nothing perfect. um suggested way to discuss have Rob react to this just if staff has any thoughts on the recommendations and then have the other five commissioners that didn't make the recommendations each kind of give their take on them and we use that on each one right on each one. Okay. Well, collectively like you know Adam talks about the like and then we well because the reason I say each one because you know I mean like I may be in favor of some but not in favor of the other you know. So um

I guess I'm trying to avoid us talking about 30 different line items. We could proud well just I'm talking about the recommendation the six recommendation you know um that's what I'm talking about is just you know sort of bring it up and do you know if there's majority says yeah yeah makes sense fine no you know we need to discuss this

and the reason I I say this because I was actually subject to one of these issues I got a we got a thing for our neighborhood there was going to be a you know um shelter at the end of our street and 500 of us went to understand what's going on. This was San Jose, city of San Jose contacting us because they were putting it in San Jose. And so after hour, hour and a half of being there, we then finally we understood they've already done it. They already decided they were going to put it there. It was all done. They were just telling us about it afterwards. And so imagine 500 angry residents realizing we can't do anything about it. And they actually had to call police, you know, to just to make sure they're present, you know. So, um, you know, that's that's the so-called other side of it is getting people riled up on something that they can't do anything about. Should I just make a point that on the recommendations, if you look at the recommendations at the starting on page 13 or 14 of the of the report, most of them start out Campbell should consider. Okay. So, what we're saying is we're we're asking the the council to take a look at this and consider a recommendation to whatever extend the radius um you do not notifications for things that aren't necessarily required. So, we're not saying this the city must do this. We're we're we're offering our recommendations to the city to consider it.

That said, okay, happy to hear all So, I'd like to hear from the other members of the commission that haven't said anything. What do you guys think? What can we hear from Rob? Okay, let's start with Rob. Thank you. You do have Michelle. Uh, start with Maggie, then Rob. Okay, Maggie, do you want to you want to go first and then Rob? Uh, I I will yield my uh my priority order to Rob. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Director, you're in.

Sure. I I can provide you my broad thoughts and I met with Resister and Craig. I mean I guess I'll say up front one uh always acknowledge and appreciate the effort put in by commissioner ad hoc. It's very unusual. You won't find a lot of cities with commissioners who are willing to do the research. So so off the gate uh kudos to you on taking the time to do it. And honestly parts of this if we just want to put in a white paper and share with the other community development directors happy to because it's good research right people should know benchmarks where things are at. Uh, and to Commissioner Zister's point, I did a deep dive in this 10 years ago with the county where we major overhaul and put up signs and I think whole nine yards on a lot of this stuff. So, I have some history with it. Uh, I think generally, you know, I I would agree that uh certain projects uh that garner a lot of attention and you've seen them certain commercial projects with drive-throughs or wireless communication facilities. Uh generally, you know, as an industry standard, probably a broader radius isn't a bad thing. And uh from a staff perspective, there's a broader cost that there's an economy of scale off of bigger projects. And there's thresholds you can establish the size of a building or type that triggers So that's not abnormal. And from a staff standpoint, I'd say that that's helped a lot of times versus people having those down. Uh on the ministerial, totally appreciate the perspectives of Commissioner Craneer. I would say uh both costwise that does cost a lot more. We issue a ton of building permits for ADUs, sorry, and other ministerial projects. Uh and I would be very cautious on letting folks know something has been applied for. uh and and if they're agre if they're agreed by it that they should contact the city, but there's really nothing about um so I from a staff perspective be cautious on that. Uh we do require

signage with construction a lot of times. Uh so when you put up construction fence, notify people construction hours and runoff and contacts. You know, there's possibility to build off of that to say certain projects. We have to put up a sign for construction to let folks know actually what's been constructed. So, that's something we can look at. Uh, on the notices, I will give kudos to to Ken. If if anyone's seen our notices, they're actually really good for postcards and they're colored. Uh, and this is just my riffing a little bit. To Commissioner Ken Car's point, as a San Jose resident, I just got a notice last night from San Jose. I couldn't understand it. It talked about reszoning, and I'm a PL trained planner. It was in a language that was really hard for me to understand. So, uh, I'll just say if you're in Campbell and you do get a notice that the postcards are really colorful and they show you what's being proposed and it gives you a good option contact folks. Uh, other than that, we actually have made some upgrades on our website. So, totally appreciate the feedback. Uh, it's a little more accessible. We have limits by our GS provider on how much you can do. Um, but we've actually some of your recommendations are already in there. uh happy to you know uh follow back with screenshots if you like. Those are my broad comments. Happy to provide more.

Thank you. Uh Commissioner Astroski, would you like to go next?

Oh, sure. Yeah, thank thank you um for those those additional pieces of information. director. Um I did want to add I didn't see on the recommendation, but putting up signage I do think is a good idea because if there's something in the neighborhood and it's something that's going to impact a particular radius of people, then those are the people that are going to be um they're going to be accessing that sign. If you're going to walk by or you're a neighbor, a sign is a great way to be informed that something's coming. And I do I do believe we need to notify neighbors of projects even if there is nothing that you know they can do if if there's a ministerial review because I think people should be informed and given a heads up of changes that are going to be taking place in their neighborhood that are going to impact them. There may be decisions that property owners might want to make as a result of that information. Um, and if we can in if we can increase the zoning uh or the um the the notifying radius, I think that would also be helpful. I agree with the comments that the 300 u is pretty uh small and those are my comments.

Okay, thank you for that. Commissioner Bookbinder, I didn't get this first hand um possibly because it may have been sent to my previous work address. Please go back to the first page and I'll um it's the second page recommend the first page of recommendations. It's like 13 recommendations. There you go.

I just I would like to note that um it seems like 600 ft is doubling the amount of um notifications to be sending out. It is not. It is quadrupling it. Remember that area scales as square radius. So moving it to 1,000 ft is multiplying it by 11. We are notifying 11 times as many people. Isn't it by a factor of four? We're going from 300 to 1,000 ft.

Oh, to a th00and okay. Um that's 1,000 feet is not a small distance. 600 feet is defin like 300 feet is not a small distance. I'm skeptical need to do this. Like if you notify people, people will find will find something to be upset about. Um, I've seen people talk about privacy impacts from something that is like 300 feet away and stand trees. I'm skeptical of the value of that. Um, next page, please. I realize the other cities are doing it. I don't think it's a good idea for them doing that either. Um, I endorse notifying tenants. Um, they live here more so than property owners. I think they have a bigger stake and also you know I endorse improving website and um improving our emails. Both sound like perfectly reason those are my comments.

Okay, thank you for that. Any other commissioners want to pipe up?

Sure. Um yeah, I just looked at the site and it was quite confusing and like maybe when I was starting but now it looks pretty pretty clear and easy to navigate. Um, I do agree like it would be nice to have all of these locations. The courtesy notices possibly mapped. Um, that can be done with like a Google widget. It's pretty easy. I've done it before. Um, so something like that would be nice, but I don't think it's totally necessary. I'm pretty I have pretty mixed feelings on increasing our radius notification especially for small things that I feel like it's just going to cost the city more and with to what benefit really it's it is courteous yes but I just I don't know if I see the right

yeah the benefit really um those are my main my main thoughts

thank you thank you um vice chair any any other comments or Yeah, going through them. I Adam makes a good point. I I would just love ultimately probably to see the cost benefit ratio on this of like looking at what 500 would really mean. I don't know. The postcards are nice. How expensive are they? Is there some guy that we pay who's writing people's addresses? Like I don't know. It seems like that could be expensive. So, it would be nice to understand like what we're really signing up for there. Um, I like what Rob said, maybe even more, which is like when I did the conditional when we did the conditional use permit, you basically saw that there's like a really small set of uses people care about and show up for and like maybe those are the ones we do the big radius on and everything else we keep to 300. So, I think that that's a little bit more where my head is at is there's like specific uses that you would amp up notification for as opposed to it being kind of blanket. Um, I really like see I really the whole report was great. Like this just I remember we you now sent it like a month ago or whatever that was, but I remember reading I was this is like very thorough

so thorough

great work. Um, so want to note that. Um, I do think the city ma is map is still a little opaque. I would love it just to be over a Google map that like uh Corey was just saying that was like just a little bit easier to navigate. I just think this is a little too difficult for people to find and then use. I tried to do this. I was emailing with Rob like a year ago when I was saw a new business that was building something and then I was trying to figure out what it was and I like could not uh do it on the website and had to email Rob which that doesn't scale. So um east E does stand up as me as an opportunity area as as well as F.

Okay, thank you for that. Um and to be honest with you, I uh feel the same way as the vice chair um commissioner Namajiski and Commissioner Bookbind in the sense that uh Campbo is a pro housing. We just got our pro housing designation. So anything that I think will chill that effect probably is not going in the right in the same direction as we are commissioners and I attended the state of the city address and this prohousing designation was a big deal you know and they brought it up in that meeting as well. Um so increasing it from 300 um I mean I play soccer to me 300 is 100 yards which is length of a soccer field you know and to me that's pretty big you know um especially with smaller lots in Campbell um it's probably a block you know and so um uh generally you're interested to know what's going on in your block not blocks away you And so for those reasons I um I think 300 is a good um uh notification distance for now. If the project is of major you know um size then of course you know it's got to increase and it's got to um you know um but on the other aspect of the report I thought it was done very thoroughly. I was very impressed. You reached out to so many cities. That's fantastic. You know, I thought you would of that maybe Las and Cino, maybe maybe you know, Sarah, but then you went way beyond that and that's incredible. So, thank you. Thank you for that. Um I certainly have been um educated in some

of the items, you know. Um thank you for that. So, that's it. Um may may I make a couple a comment since everybody else is and and just clarify a couple things.

So you know on the thousand feet what we're recommending is only for a large project for example the Hickory Pit one. Okay that would fall into a large project. So we're not talking about thousand feet for very many projects in the city. Okay. So the the thing that I thought about is just practically speaking is when I when I look at the Hickory Pitt the nearby neighborhoods are Union Avenue neighborhoods and the Prunard Dry Creek neighborhood which is what they came out in mass right all the way to Lee. So a 300 or 500 foot distance doesn't capture those neighborhoods entirely. Okay. I mean, I don't have a map in front of me to show me, but to get to encompassing much of the neighborhoods that are adjacent takes, you know, 300 feet gets you probably a half a block up from, you know, across the street, you know, and a half a block up. Okay. So, so you know 300 feet on on depth and when you're going 30 100 foot locks and going that way that's only three it's only that's that's actually two and a half houses when you count the streets. Okay. So it's only it's only one block over 60oot lots it's five houses on one side five houses on the other. So we're talking on big projects. I believe you want to capture a a a significant part of that area to notify people. Okay? So that they have the opportunity to know know that something's going on. I see it all the time. People don't know what's going on in the city. I see it all the time on

Next Door. So, so that's the way I looked at it is is for a for a large project, you want to go out and you want to capture the entire neighborhood. Now, we're only going to see those it's it's not going to be, you know, it's not going to be one one a month, you know, it's Well, I we could speculate how much it will be. Okay. But I think we've we've we've

So, I'm just saying the thousand feet is not every time. uh the the the question of going from 3005 we're talking first of all about jumping up the radius on projects that are required to be notified okay so many of the projects are going to go away ministerial okay and the ministerial ones would be a shorter radius say an ADU could be all the adjacent properties and a a spot a lot split could be 300 feet Okay. So, we're not talking about everything going to five or 600 ft. We're talking about those where a notification is required and which means that it's going to be a big it's it's it's going to be u more than 10 units. Now, we can we can also say if it's a 10 if it's a five to 10 unit, we want to go farther too because I think that five to 10 units is a fairly significant um development in your in your neighborhood. So, I think the neighborhoods probably should know about it even if they're not required to be notified about it. So, the to me the question is uh courtesy versus requirement. And I I'm f I'm favoring like um Commissioner Ostroski said, I I favor notifying people even when it's not required. The question is how many people get notified. So, that that's just my point there. As far as the signage goes, we actually I'm not quite sure why didn't we didn't have a recommendation about signage. I think the staff talked talked us out of it because of the complexities of doing signage. So I certainly we are open to um looking at the signage thing but we we didn't put it in the recommendations and uh you know Commissioner Ostroski said that she she feels that signage is something that we should take a look at which you know

we can we can have staff take a second look at that. Okay. Um, so we've heard from all commissioners. Um, should we do a uh should we do a um like a roll call on I guess we should ask. This is this is more study discussion. Okay. All right. So, we've all um given our thoughts and our positions on it. I guess that's it. Um, well, I guess my question is I was under the impression that the report would at some point go to council,

okay, for their review. So, it's it's it's more than a study session. So, the question is what do we whether we approve the report for council to see and in what form does the report go there if I'm not. So the issue is uh if you want to make a recommendation then it's got to be from the body not from I understand that that's why we're discussing but if comfortable with just including the summary of the discussion that's been had here as reflecting the and the report

opinion of the commission. I don't think we need to bring this back. I think there's like, you know, this staff feel that that the um opinion of the commission as a body has been appropriately expressed.

Uh probably not. Well, I mean, you accepted the report. That's obvious. I was taking notes. I mean, you got a couple options. Uh one would be and you've you've been down this road before. Uh I mean so at one end it would be if you're unanimous these are all great recommendations you make a motion to forward the recommendation to the council. So for example the economic development subcommittee work I think landed that bucket last. So that's that's one if you'd like a strong recommendation to the council. Another would be we've done this report and it provides something for you to consider and you just like pass a report on the council and for benchmarking I think the um trying to remember the homeless declaration of emergency homeless situation butchering the title you guys

I remember last year sort of fell in that bucket or if you want to take the report and say here's the report uh there's general consensus on one to two things that we strongly feel you should consider sort of a middle ground where you could say here's the report and the commission believe that you know these two or three things out of it the council should it would provide a bit more clarity on next steps if you want to land in one of those

right you know I you know I mean I definitely go with what the committee when the commission wants to do but to me um we can't pass this report on to the council unless we say unless we do what you just said on these points On these recommendation the commission was unanimous. These other recommendations the commission was you know um commission was not unanimous or even as a whole because by my count it was four to three. It was three commissioners saying let's increase the distance. Four commissioners said we're comfortable with 300. So if this were to become a vote, that recommendation would not pass. And that's why I would feel uncomfortable passing something to council saying commission recommends this when um

that's why I was saying like including I'd be happy to be including a summary of the discussions. Would you able to do that? We are being recorded, right? So, so you can go back and check to see what's

well, if you if you can come up with a fairly detailed description of the varying views of the commissioners on on the recommendations. Yeah. I mean, if if the commissioners are agreeable to to approve the report contingent on on on the different positions of commissioners that were stated and that there's a substantial addendum to it that that that states states uh that summarizes varying positions. I I don't have a problem with that. I also don't have a problem with redoing it to to uh you know submit it with a with a change, but um would seem to me that's a reasonable solution.

I'm I mean I'm I'm hesitant to send something that has a recommendation on it, you know. Um can can the report without the recommendation be you know passed on you know because that totally fine yeah you've done the work those recommendations may that may misrepresent the um majority of the commission I feel yeah and we'll you know of course we'll have minutes uh that come out of this um and do our best to I'm not comfortable with having a report without recommendation You know, I I suspect Mike's the same way.

Okay. Al Okay. Alternative idea. It seems like we were unanimous on C, E, and F, which is extended to property owners and street addresses, improve the website, make email signups easier. No one was against those, right? Right. Okay. We're unanimous on C and F. we were mixed and aren't going to make a unanimous referral for the other. Yeah. Then that we put that as we just reflect that in our report to the council. Does that get closer to a Yeah. If that's the consensus of the commission to I think that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

That's okay. Then they can see everything and they'll that way. on three. We mixed on a couple. So, one last thing, just giving you facts after the fact. Uh Ken was running quick numbers. So, it' be about four So, it's about $45 per notice now for $300 300 foot radius. And with all the printing and mailing it probably goes up by about four times. So, that's Are you getting that right? Multiply. But, of course, the point we made though is there's a lot fewer of them. So, yeah. I mean, if your recommendation was say, hey, the high benchmark projects, the biggest ones, it would just apply to those.

Well, there's a lot fewer public hearings, that's the one, and we're just talking about the six and 300 one, I think. Right. The question becomes if that's if that's the increment, uh, what's what's the multiplication number of that in terms of a year for budgetary purposes? I mean, are we talking a few thousand dollars, you know, versus, you know, are we are we increasing is is going to require a couple thousand dollars more for notifications for the year? I mean, that's the number, right? And so, if it's if it's a uh it's $150, $140 more for notification, right? Whatever. Jen, then how many notifications do we send out in a year?

So, it depends on the volume that you guys were talking about. the original uh rough numbers figures that you guys were looking at when you were looking at uh different permits, ADUs, things like that. Just a considerable figure to look at is they take in about 2400 permits, right? So just a 2400 permits at about $140 a piece depending on the times that they notice and when you're noticing, yeah, you're looking at $250,000 per year just on noticing. Now, that's just on owners alone. Now, when you're looking at owners and tenants and businesses, then you're looking at what what are those? What are those? What was how many how many permits? 2400.

Yeah. But what are those permits? What are all I mean that are those all kinds of permits? They're building permits. Just building permits. That's just building permits. Well, that gets into recommendation D, which we're not unanimously recommending. No, those are hard figures without looking at all the different pieces. I guess based based on your recommendation we would recommendation is expand the radius on the big projects. Yeah. Uh it would the cost would go up 45 time 4 to 160 and we'd have we figure out what that benchmark is and generally do we pass the cost on to the applicant first.

I just I just want to be clear on the building permits. We're also talking about a second story. We talking about a second story on a on a house or single house being built because we're not recommending we're not recommending increasing radiuses on small ministerial small ministerial items that that's not in the recommendations. So, if if a large number of these 2400 permits, building permits are adding a second story, putting putting putting in one new house, whatever it is. Um because I don't see us building we're not building 2400 multiple multi- multi-units in in in Campbell here, right? I mean, it the 2400 number boggles my mind. So, so the the question is what P what what's the real number in terms of building permits for specific ministerial ones like SB9 ADU or multiple unit ones that are like over five units or whatever the number is. Okay. And that's not 2400 units. Am I am I correct in saying that?

Yeah, that's correct. I I think I think maybe at this point, Rob, it would be just a case of what when you forward to the city council, you could put these cost estimates in there so they have an idea what we're talking about and kind of look into it a little more in depth. We can't do this right now. Yeah, I understand. But I I don't like saying it's going to be another $200,000 when it's not really necessary. Yeah. Another 200,000. Unless it is, but we we need to figure that out. That's why we left it to the staff to like deal with the money issue. Yeah. Let me just so just so I'm hearing correctly. Okay. Report pass on the council and uh commissioner uh generally you ask recommendation on C and F. Is that correct?

Got it. And and had mixed opinions on the rest of it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um uh thank you. Do we need to vote on it?

Uh no. All right. Next item would be the our the commendation service for our two departing commissioners. So, Commissioner Craig and Commissioner Ostroski. Um I can we if I may start um I have certainly learned so much from both of you. you guys were both here when I arrived and um the way you approach the you know the items and the way you u you know conduct yourself you know I think is very professional is fantastic and you guys are uh come prepared for the items and so you know um Hambo is lucky to have you and um hope that you know um you do not stop your volunteering you know on other um projects and everything. Anybody else wants to chime in? Please go ahead.

Uh sure. Um I've had the pleasure of being on the on the planning commission for four years with both Mike and Maggie and um I'm uh I hold them in high regard. I I've always found that their inputs have been uh relevant and meaningful and um and that uh they're thorough in in in uh consistent consistently thorough in their uh researching and evaluating the projects. So I I I've been uh very pleased being on the commission with both of you for four uh for five years.

Five years. Yeah. and um I'm sorry to see you both go and hope you stay in contact. Thank you very much. So we have a commendation for you and like to Okay, thank you. Hand over and then we will get this to Commissioner Astroski.

Yes. Yes. Oh, I just want to like throw in just a few words. Yeah. Thank you very much for always being so nice about the cookies and taking interest in ramen. Just it's it's been nice getting to work with you and um thank you also for being nice about the cookies, taking interest in Robin. It's been really nice working like I appreciate the technical aspects what we do, but it's also just like was great people. I really like I'm staying up late and missing my family on two Tuesdays a month. I glad that I get to do it with you folks. Thank you.

I don't I don't say a lot still. I have a lot to learn, but I feel like both of you always have really insightful comments that I'm like, "Oh, that's something I should think about." So, it help it really has helped me um hopefully get better and to continue to do so. So, I appreciate you. I think we were also going to do a picture. Can I talk to you? Yes.

Yeah. No, it's all right. Uh, Mike, I think I was just always impressed with your diligence and you'd come with the notepad and you'd come up with questions like across the gamut and really were just so thoughtful about both sides and very future-looking about like what the city's becoming and and um really appreciate that. And then Maggie, we're always such an advocate for the people in the chamber. I think the best of any of us would like listen to them, thank them. Um, you really I think uh had a connection to the constituents that uh I admire and hope we continue to embody since that's why we're here. So, I really admired that about Maggie and uh appreciate both your service.

Thanks everybody comments. Those were great. It was really a privilege and I really really enjoyed it. Thank you. It it was great to work with all of you and uh I look forward to watching how you all move the city forward without us and I know that you'll all do a a great job and I look forward to seeing that. Wonderful. Thank you. Do we do a picture? Yes. Do a picture. Can we go stand by the You'll have to photoshop me. Yeah.

Can you Can you make Maggie picture the picture? Oh, I I don't know. I don't think that's necessary. Oh, [Music]

I'm really worried how this is gonna go. Yeah.

Thank you. I was waiting for someone to toss me the soccer ball. Yes. Oh, yes. Okay. So, thank you for that. That was I I hope we get a copy of that picture. Save it. Okay, we move on to the last item in our new business is report of community development director.

We passed uh Commissioner Chair Craig, I'm sorry, Chair Camar uh stole my thunder a little bit. So, uh we did uh the city of Camel does have a pro housing designation. Very happy to report that. made a report that last week. Uh huge kudos to senior planner Steven Rose. He probably dedicated half half his life to that for three months on writing applications and talking to state staff. Uh that does give us access to more money for housing projects. So we're looking forward to that. A rare honor. Not a lot of cities get that. Okay.

Uh number one. Number two, uh why advertise the league's uh planning commissioner academy is coming up again in March of next year. I know you all have been there. Uh they're looking for and especially maybe commissioners who are retiring have more time. Anyone who wants to set up a panel or has panel ideas. So what was this again? This is the league's planning commissioners academy. Oh yeah. Uh so this is coming up next year if you'd like to give back and contribute. Um, I'll forward the notice. And this in Anaheim. This is in Anaheim, this. Yeah.

So, I'm a have an active part this year as I'm incoming as the the league president in this area. Uh, but uh if you have any interest and of course our new commissioners uh will attend uh think about uh put a proposal in. And last but not least, your next meeting you will have two new plan commissioners, Phil Ali and Gary Aalina. So, we will do an onboarding with them next week. I know people been for our onboarding and you'll see them at the next meeting. And that's all I have. Um, I'm aware that the recommendation streamlining housing went to city council last week. Anything else from that?

Yeah, good question, Adam. Uh, the recommendations did go. The council was generally supportive of all items uh except for greater subsidies for affordable housing projects. So one item was we provide a 50% reduction of park fees for affordable housing projects. There was an option to go to 100% to provide a greater subsidy. Council was not supportive of that. But the rest of the items um such as no utility requirements for small projects or fee waiverss for small projects, greater entitlement extending entitlements. Uh they were supportive of all the recommended actions. Boy, small projects, we're talking like less than 10 or less.

10. Yes. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Um I was at the state of the city and and it was brought up the uh the Methodist Church 100% affordable project on Hamilton, right? Is that Methodist Church one? So, housing. Yes. Yeah. But correct me if you're wrong. Uh we haven't seen that. Would that come in front of the planning commission? It would not. It's a 100% of the project that qualifies to be ministerally approved. And it actually has been approved. Oh, okay. How many units?

Uh that they're actually have to reduce the size of it now, but it's approximately 100 units. Why did they have to reduce the size? I think they have cost considerations and again their financial stack. This is one of the the big issues in the report. They don't have enough finances to build and by reducing the height of say construction cost and that is the the one thing city council decided not to address. Again, the city council is not favorable on bigger fee wavers. I suppose we've had our say. Uh thank you.

Okay. Thank you everyone. Um our next we are going to adjourn the planning commission meeting uh to September 9th 2025 7 p.m. here at city hall. Thank you. Okay.