Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

watch and everything said it's 4:00. So, I'd like to call this meeting of the city plan commission to order for the Wednesday, November 12th, 2005 meeting. 25

25 years behind. That's all right. I have things I do that also. Uh if you wish to speak, uh because of law, this meeting has to be live stream and you will have to come to the podium to speak and be recognized. So just keep that in mind. Uh I also would like to make mention that Craig Turpin has been elected to fill a position on the city council. we congratulate you and I know the citizens of the city are uh in good hands with you there at the helm. So congratulations and thank you for taking care of the last meeting while I was out of town. So the first item of business is approval of our meeting minutes on the October 14th.

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as per second. And we have a motion and a second. Are there any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion say I. I.

Those opposed, no. Motion passes. We're going to let the minutes show that our commission member Bill McFaden is not present today. Old business. The first item of business is a public hearing for Darcy and Kale Bill to bail, I'm sorry, to resone 1613 East Street from B2 to R2 for the purpose of building a home. The property had a home on it. is in poor condition. They tore the home down and would like to build a new home on the property. Um Bell's here. Yes. Would you tell talk to us, please?

Well, as you saw there, um we bought that piece of property. It had a old house on it with a detached garage. Both in very bad shape. Couldn't save them. We tore both down and we are wanting to just build a garage or a house with a garage there. Um it's always been a residential property or I mean it's never been a commercial. Yeah. It's always been a house and a garage. Nothing commercial ever. Um to one side of the house is just another abandoned house. Yeah. Yeah. Abandoned house owned by Core Nursing Home. The other side of the property is a vacant lot owned by core and to the behind us is vacant lot owned by core. Okay.

So, okay. Thank you. Um, is there anyone here from the public? You may take your seat. Is there anyone here from the public that would like to speak for this or against this? Commission members, do you have anything to say? Um I I do question the R2 versus R1. Is there any reason why we R2? I think the property to the other res property to the south is R2 and all the properties. So I'm just making it the same. And

the only reason we're really reszoning I mean they had a house. I could have put one back, but it helps them on their setbacks by changing it to R to from B to uh you probably wrote the businesses of people that are contingent there. Did you hear anything? I did not. Okay. Nothing there. Being that no one from the public is speaking for or against it and nothing from the people that were notified about it, uh, what would you like to do? I'll make a motion to approve. This goes to the city council. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. This will go to the city council. That's your motion. Yep. Have a second. Yes.

Have a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion say I. Those opposed? No.

Motion passes. Item number two is a public hearing for Danita and David Brian Morris. Correct. I hope I got that correct. Doing business as Chile Red Investments LLC to resone the property addressed at 25359 Street, Bedford. The property consists of parcels, several of them there. And the property is currently I2 and they wish to resone the property to for R3 to allow for town hall. Um are the Norrises here?

Hi there. Tell us about this. Uh Brian or does everybody have preliminary plan in front of them or would like one or I think we have that in front of us here. Um that's just an outline at this point. I know there's still a lot of work that has to be done before, you know, we get to the building process, but I wanted to give you guys and the public a sneak peek at what we're trying to accomplish. [cough] Okay. Um do you have a um anything on the easement of utilities?

We are active. We have talked to one of the neighbors already. We have a a plan in place. Um I'm still waiting for our survey company to follow up on that. You do not have that secured yet. It is not secured yet. All right. What about plans for the storm water? Do you have any plan? Do you have anything in writing for us to look at? No, we do not. It is it's it's still being looked at at this time as well. Okay. That presents us with a problem. Uh it were almost asking us to approve a pigment of folk.

That's an oldfashioned term, but uh something unknown. It's a little difficult to approve something that we don't know. You understand what I'm saying? Absolutely. But the the easement of the utilities would be not really too big of a concern though. Well, yes, it would. Yes, it would be a concern to us to to pass this. Um, am I in agreement there? Do you think that that we need to have that? How far along are you on I mean, [clears throat] is it going to Are you working with someone to get those? Yes, we are.

Get the uh all the storm water plants. Yes, I am. You have an engineer or civil engineer working with a surveyor? anyone working with you? Yeah, I'll be working with them on this project moving forward to do all the drainage preparing the plan. Um, just a quick look at this. I know we just got involved about

this is Travis. I'm Travis Norman with TNG. Um, they contracted me about a week and a half ago. So we need to do the survey, do the existing topography on it to see what the drainage flow is doing. But just from initial look at this, you know, we're looking a lot of hard surface here. So this will definitely need a retention pond to hold the water and release it. We still need to investigate the sanitary sewer, need to investigate the water, you know, where everything will run. I think they've got a rough site plan here to kind of show you what they're wanting to do. And then we just need to get into the meat of it and figure out if the roads will be private, public, you know, what's going to happen moving forward with it. But we have been contracted to look at it. We just haven't had time to dive into it yet on this. Okay. Yeah, I find it hard for us to approve something that we really don't know. Would any of the other commission members have any comments?

What's the current zoning? I am mistaken to say that it was the other and then the man James changed it over. Wasn't it originally zoned the other way? As far as I know, since zoning came in, it's been I2. Okay. In fact, Mr. F said that he had switch over tax purposes.

I don't show any record there's ever been anything other than to follow up on Travis's comment. Yes, we have been in communications with one of the neighbors that has added a retention pond to his property and we are looking at, hey, how can we make this better? Not only us, he's going to have to be involved in that as well. It's because it it's his property is who's going to be the problem. It's nobody else's. We are in communication with him as we speak. So, how many houses are you planning or town [clears throat] houses you plan on putting there? I believe there's 79 on that drawing. 79. Would those be this way? Single story. Pardon me. Single story.

I Oh, single story. Yes. to be here's the plan. Okay, everyone has a copy of it. Okay. Well, thank you for telling us what you have in mind there. Um, since it's a public hearing, uh, we would want have also have to entertain comments for and against this. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you for your time. Are there people from the public that would like to speak for this? [snorts] Yes. Yes. come and have you signed in over here, sir? Okay. Come over here and give me your name. Uh, Lee Kopalov. Okay. And I own the, uh, property

to the east. To the east. Okay. That's the stone mill. Okay.

So, um, my question is, well, I guess you answer or he answered that there's going to be 79 town homes. Um, I was kind of I haven't seen any of the plans, but I was just curious how close it was going to get to the stone, you know, to that line and what type of things. I don't know if he's going to be fencing thing. You know, I have a a stone mill that's been there for many years and there's a lot of stone out there and I don't know if people are going to like that. And so I'm a little concerned about what the zoning the reszoning would, you know, implicate for what I'm doing there and even for future resale of it at some point.

If it were resone, this property would be reszoned. That would not bother with zoning on your property. Okay. I just and so um you know obviously it's up to you guys to figure out if he meets all the requirements like with you know sewer and drain you know drainage and all those things. I just want, you know, I' I'd like to know what he's especially doing near my property or things like that and how, you know, how many people um, you know, maybe there's, you know, right now it's a pretty quiet neighborhood and, you know, some of my concerns would be what it would bring and whether people start stealing, you know, just more action things.

I don't think many people are gonna pick up a piece of stone. Oh, I'm not worried about the stone. I'm worried about breaking in. Okay. So, those are just my All right. Thank you. Um, anyone else here wish to speak against this? Yes. And could you tell me who you are, please? Rebecca Knight. And where do you live? Uh, right next door to the property. Okay.

Um, so, so we would share a property link. Um, just a lot of unanswered questions at this point. It sounds like you guys are in the same situation. We were just wondering about layout. Um, at the meeting a month ago, it was stated that there were maybe going to be two phases and the first phase was going to be 30 or 40 and then the next phase. Um, it was mentioned was up to 90. So maybe that number has come down a little bit. Um, I guess my concern is um, like Mr. Kopov said, this is a it's pretty quiet neighborhood, pretty quiet street. Um, there's 25ish, maybe even less houses on 39th Street at this point. So, even with the number of 79, you're tripling the amount of people, traffic, cars, um, on that street, and we just kind of wonder what what that's going to look like for us um, in terms of home own homeowners, excuse me. Um, in that neighborhood. So, I think I'll take a look at these after the meeting if that's okay. Um, because that will probably answer some of my other questions. Um, but we were also concerned about drainage. Um 39th Street, even just with the rain a couple weeks ago, there's standing water like it floods. Um it floods back on Industrial Drive, too. Um so we were just wondering with all of that extra action if there would be um you know, storm drains and things that would be put in so that way current properties aren't flooded. Um concerned about the traffic issues too. Um just in terms of more more people um and the setbacks from other properties. um our property um goes lengthwise, widthwise, I don't know what you would call that, but it's a it's a huge portion of our property line that's against this. Um and we just don't know how close up is going to be up to our house and our yard and our kids.

It's not going to be right up to your house, but there are certain amount. So, do you know what the setback amount would be for that? Like how is that how many feet? 20 feet. 20 feet back from the property line. Okay. Okay. Um [clears throat] we're a pretty neighborly neighborhood. Like every everybody gets along. I think we're not here to necessarily um cause any problems. Um but we also are just in a situation where we just don't have a lot of answers um for our questions yet. So that's that's one of my biggest concerns. Thank you. Thank you for your time.

Someone else want to speak against this? Yes, sir. Good afternoon. My name is John Bharurl. I live at 12 Hillrest Circle. Hillrest Circle is a um is just south of the 39th Street property that's being discussed here. And since we are in the area, we feel like we do have some concerns relative to being part of that greater neighborhood. There are really four things that I wanted to address today um with regard to this development. So the first consideration in any kind of development would be what it does to the density the population density in the area. And as has already been mentioned, this is going to significantly increase that. We're probably looking three to four times the current population density in the area. And anytime that happens, one of the outcomes is going to be an increase in noise, congestion, and crime. That's not to cast any aspirating the people that may move in there. It's just a matter of increased numbers and the percentages associated with that. Just a natural outcome. Um the traffic considerations on 39th Street is another concern of ours. Uh with you know 79 80 additional residents on 39th Street. A particular concern would be the intersection of Washington Avenue and also the intersection of State Road 37. Right now, Washington Avenue is a is a road that enjoys a lot of foot traffic. A lot of walkers, a lot of runners come up and down. And for the primary reason because it's a very low um there's not a lot of traffic on that road. This will certainly make that problem worse by increasing the amount of traffic going up to Washington Avenue or coming down from Washington Avenue. Um the other situation of course is on

State Road 37 and 39th Street is in a particularly unique situation based on this um vicinity to the rock cuts going down to the river to White River. Um with with increased traffic on 39th Street, I can just see a queue of cars waiting to get on the 37 to turn right and go north or to cross over and go south. And there's not a lot you can do in terms of traffic control at that particular intersection just because of of the topography and where it's located. And as you know, the longer you wait in the queue, the more risk you're going to take to try to get out on the 37. And so there's a concern about the public safety uh with regard to the increased traffic at that location. The other concern with regard to development in the area would be conservation of property values. uh building 79 uh apartments in what would otherwise be a resident residential area of single family homes is going to have an impact to the property values. Right now you've got a lot of homeowners that are occasionally owner occupiers of single family residents with um three or four times that number now moving in as tenants. um we're going to have a more transient population and that is actually going to cause some people to say I don't want to live in this area anymore and look to get out with that with an exodus like that you're going to have decreased property values and and if this leads to its natural conclusion the only people that are going to be left wanting to buy homes in this area are um absentee landlords and other developers that are looking to do something similar buy our properties, reszone it and build more multi multif family apartments.

Um so from a from a neighborhood perspective um what we see is um the whole whole character of the current neighborhood being drastically changed as a result of resigning this area and developing it with multi multi-unit apartments. Uh there's already been discussion about the utilities. Um there's not a lot that we we can ask at this point since there's still um particulars that need to be um further developed for for discussion. So I won't bring that into into discussion today. But the availability of public services is another consideration for any type of development that you would want to do. So what are the alternatives? Well, one alternative, of course, would be to leave the zoning as is, but the other would be to change it to R1 so that it could be developed into a subdivision of single family homes, and that would be more along the lines of the existing neighborhoods that are currently there.

Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak? Yes, sir. I assume you have signed in. Yes, sir. Okay. My name is Lane Major, current resident, uh 241839th Street, just directly across the road from the closed property. Okay.

Um I hate to echo what everybody else is saying, but uh wanted to just give my point. Um there's a lot of concerns. A lot of the neighbors we've talked to um are elderly and couldn't make it today. So, um, we feel like the reszoning does not fit our neighborhood. Um, and as stated, um, maybe a single families homes would be more appropriate for that area. It's a very quiet neighborhood. Um, we worry about the the strain on the current infrastructure down there. The the road is just uh it just wouldn't handle that many people. Uh, it make it a lot more dangerous. Um and we do concerned about the noise level. It is quiet right now pretty much. [laughter] Uh and uh we worry about the increased crime rate. A lot of different people coming in and out. Um it's pretty much all I have to say. Um, I do request the board postpone any any immediate changes so it can maybe mobilize the the neighborhood down there a little better and get some more information out.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak?

My name is Terry Wagner. Uh he lived at 234339th Street right next to the property that he's wanting to renovate. Uh I really I really don't have much to say unless you want to hear repeats because everything that these people have said u I concur with 100%. And um as Lane said uh there's a lot of older people on this street that can't get out to get to this meeting. And you really need to consider these people. These people have as well as myself have been there for years upon years upon years. This is all they know. And we really do need to be concerned about crime rates. We need to be concerned about traffic safety and uh all the things that goes with bringing this to fruition. uh such as drainage uh uh access and to property that he's wanting to turn it into. To me, it sounds like a pretty unplanned catastrophe on its way. So, anyway, I basically just wanted to to concur with what everybody else said here. I've been there for 18 years. So, this is not new. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Anyone else wish to speak?

I'm going to do the same. I'm going to echo. My husband and I live at Five Hillrest Circle. I'm Becky Wright and we moved there 13 years ago to the historic historical nature of the area, the single family home nature of the area. lots of people who aren't just on top of each other as in other places that we've lived in town. And I just want to echo everything 100% as well that everybody has said because I the the character of the neighborhood is wonderful. We have walkers, bikers, uh runners. They use it for the mini marathon now. And it's just got wonderful character. And I just think that I just agree 100% with everyone else with safety um mostly safety concerns and property value concerns. I'd like to weigh in on that, too. [clears throat]

Anyone else? Hi, my name is Marcia Hston and I live on 18 Hillrest Circle. We have several of us here today. Um, John did a great job. I'm just going to echo what he said also. Um, we are very concerned about this coming this close to our neighborhood. Um, one thing that I haven't heard mentioned is um, the water problem that we already have coming down Washington Avenue and then off of 39th in behind some houses and it all goes into Johnetta Orderers's backyard which is the first house going into the circle. She was supposed to be here but um, she had to get someone to take care of her kids to get here. Her grandkids she keeps after school every night when the bus comes. So, I want to speak for that. If you've not been down around the circle and seen her backyard, it's it's very sad and it's it's hurting her to ever sell her home. I mean, it's deep. Um, and Barbara Sergeant used to live there. Um, uh, she lives on the circle. Barbara does now, but she had moved and and has built another home there, and she didn't have that problem then. So, something has occurred through the years, you know, that changed since Barbara lived there to flooding her backyard. And my husband and I walk every day Washington Avenue um on long ways do 39th. All these people know me because I walk by their house every day. And um it is a great neighborhood. We don't have sidewalks. So we take our life on our own hands every day when we walk anyway. And then now you're going to put and what we were told was 91 homes or apartments first and then 41 homes later is what one of the people on 39th had been told. and he told me about it. So that is if you just put one car per apartment, it's going to be

horrendous down there. And then you got to think about, you know, we've already um just recently had a sewer uh issue on the circle. And I noticed the city was back there today and two or three more trucks down in the middle of the circle. So if you're going to add that many more apartments, you know, you've already got a problem coming down there and something's going on with the sewer system. you're just really going to add to more of it. And I just hate to see um you know the the chance of the vandalism and all the things that going to maybe happen when you start renting to lowincome people. And I'm not against anybody low income because there's a lot of us out there. It's just that somebody's got to control that. And you see what's happened over on uh 29th Street with the the Jones edition. I mean it's and I know that's what Johnetta was going to talk about tonight. if she'd made it was because when she lived in Broadview, when they put in those the Jones edition, she lived in Broadview and she said they loved their home and their parents loved their home, but once that went in, then the stealing and the vandalism began. And we've just got an great place to live in our, you [clears throat] know, even the pe I mean, I know most of these people on 39th because I'm I'm by there every day and I hate to see them have to deal with it. and Sheila Brown couldn't be here this evening and I'm kind of representing her. She she's sick but she has a home on 39 [clears throat] and Limestone Home and she's a single lady and she's scared to death what's about to happen because you know being a single lady living there and we're going to have that much more traffic and um you know a lot more people and I don't see how anybody's going to be able to get out. I know one of the people mentioned, I think John did, how anybody is going to be able to get off of 39th onto 37. It's so hard now if you come there. I don't know how many of you probably don't have to to use that road,

but when you try to go there, those cars are coming up that hill and they don't get over. So people get tired of waiting and they go and it's it's just as bad when you go up to um 35th Street because a lot of people go up there so they can maybe get out without that but there's no stoplight. There's accidents there all the time. So anyway, I just want to re really reiterate what John said. He's our president of the circle and um we just really would not like to see this happen. Thank you. [clears throat] Anyone else wish to speak?

Yes, sir. Take him first and now I'll get you, sir. My name is Kim Turner. I live at 3920. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. My name is Kent Turner. Okay, Kent.

3920 Avenue. One thing that hadn't been mentioned yet, I'm concerned about the sewage lift stations. You have one across from Hillrest Circle. The sewage runs down to that and then they pump it back up. Another one's right at 39th Street Christian Church. It's right there on the corner. Another lift station. I know they're just preliminary studying their sewage problem, but somebody is going to have to be careful to make sure you'll handle that volume or somebody's gonna have to build another lift station. I would think that's all I wanted to add to it. own fact be wonderful to have sidewalks because I live on the east side of 30 Washington Avenue and my property floods. I've tried to put drain pipes in and stuff and been fighting it for years. But if you add any anything that could possibly cause more flooding, it's going to affect home owners. Anyway, the sewage thing is my thing I'd like to add mostly. Thank you.

Thank you. And this gentleman back here

I know everybody has concerns over the water and sewer and I should have said this early on. He is very aware that his water and his sewer that's from the easements will have to come from industrial. It will not and is here to reiterate that. So everything that all his supply will come from industrial water and all the sanitation will have to go back to industrial. I know probably Stormheart is going to have to go that direction. So those are items that I've discussed with him and he understands this preliminary stuff right here. I should mention that early that would have satisfied some questions people have.

Uh my name is Ken McCann. I live at 2409 39th Street. Uh right there in front of them. I have one question I'd like to ask Brian before I go any further. I have one question I ask Brian if I could. What's your question? Uh, where you going to put the drive the roads down to there? I didn't look. I didn't see it. So, what I'm saying that beside me, are you going to We have been sir. Yeah. Uh that's what we're asking for is we want the complete plans and uh they will have to meet.

Is that going to mess up your conversation? Well, I think to m to the limestone company and Mr. McCain here, our setbacks are way more. Could you give us just a minute? You've covered up No, no, Brian, I want you to come cover up the microphone, sir. Yeah, even in the back of your property here, we have went way past what we need to. What about now? You got a bunch of trees on the side. You'd be taking them out of there. That's right here. Are they going to be taken out? Those trees on our property? Yeah, more than likely.

They give us good shade on one side. And our state, my state's close to the fence and then close to the house. Like the other day you were mowing and uh for 30 years I mowed on this side of trees for Todd. So you were mowing down through here. I heard something hit. So I walked out and debris hit my window and then uh my also my air conditioner unit out there. So anytime I ever mow it, I always mow this way towards the road. I never shot the shoot towards my house or anything like that. But you know that's if that did happen. I'm sorry if I can talk that over with you. But if you can see at this point we're doing we have cleaned that place up a time. Oh yeah.

And them things will go away. So like I said you can see everywhere even on the other side wag Mr. Wagner we have set back way from him. Limestone company we have plenty of setback for him. And the road's going to go down through here right here. Only thing we I asked to do there. Again, this is preliminary is I asked them to take this and scoop that back this way away from you a little bit. Okay? Because I felt like that was a little too close. And the road's going to be where them trees are similar. It'll probably be away from the trees just a touch. There are so many feet that a road cannot be put down through there.

Yes. There's there's a state or there's city requirements as to how wide things have to be. Yes. I I don't know what they're what they're with or anything like that, but between my house and the next house, uh when the other the other man owned it, uh they he wanted to put a garage or a road down through there and put two houses behind me. Uh he couldn't put the road down through there, the driveway, because my carport and stuff was too close to that house. Uh now, if they're not within a limit here, that's why I wanted to know what the limit is on that, you know. Is it 24 Kevin? Is it 24 ft? Uhhuh. From the property line, how far 28T?

I'm not going to put a one lane gravel road down there. It'll have to be uh with city staff. That's why we have an engineer that does that. That's why we have a city inspector to make sure everything is coded. Okay. Thank you, sir. Brian, I have a question for you. Uh, do your plans uh include sidewalks? They do here. Yes. Okay. In front of all your Yes, they do. Okay.

And with handicap placement. This This property lays very nice. Runs about a two and a quarter% slope from the front to the back. So everything should be nice and level. Not no steps, no second stories. Just like I said, that's that's our goal there is to keep everything on the same plane. Did Did you do you have a approximate amount that you're going to charge rent on these? Um I don't know if that's been nailed down yet. I can tell you, you know, I think most places is probably between 900 and a,000 a month right now. If you was to compare to the other places for this type of So this is not going to be subsidized and be low income.

Absolutely not. Okay. That's what I thought. Just just to clear my clear my mind on that. No. Okay. No. It will not just be straight section 8. Absolutely not. And like I said to a lot of these questions I'm hearing, the front of our property is two foot lower to 4 foot lower than Hillrest Circle. And our property is 7 ft lower in the back than it is the front. So there is absolutely no chance of any storm water whatsoever. The water is going to run north.

Yes. Yeah. If it gets to Hillrest Circle, we got problems. Um our property sets lower than Washington Avenue there. Again, if it gets to Washington Avenue, we got problems. Um city I've done with the city utilities. We we got a tentative plan to get to Industrial Drive. We got a tentative plan on what we need for fire hydrants. Um and like I said, we do have an owner that's been very generous and working with us at [snorts] this point. So is the only way in and out of this off 39th Street. Yes. Okay. There'll be two entrance two entrances exit on 39.

Anyone else wish to speak about this one way or the other? Yes, come back again. Uh, and I understand, Brian, and everybody's explaining the infrastructure. There's not much you can't fix with infrastructure. Put a little money at it and we can get it fixed. Our biggest concern is the environment of that neighborhood. My family has been there 60 years and and this is not in line with that neighborhood. It'd be like building a Walmart [clears throat] right in the middle of 39th Street. I promise you won't do that.

Yeah, right. I got you. Um, listen, there's there's a multitude of open vacant land where this type of a project would be more appropriate. Um, and I think one of the other speakers said it would be completely different probably in my mind if it were single family houses, you know, six or seven homes in there, nice upscale homes that would fit in right with our property and and and I'm assuming the city's view of the neighborhood. Um, I think that's it. Okay. Um, but yeah, infrastructure. I I agree with Brian. You you can fix anything, drainage water and utilities and all that stuff. You can We know that you can fix that. I just don't think it's an appropriate project for for that community. And I would ask the board to please postpone any type of voting until we can mobilize the the local area a little better and find out some more information. Hello, I'm Janita Norris

and I just want to say Kevin, can you tell them right now like with like what it's what it's zoned at what all we can do without having to go through all this? Um as the board has in 10 of them as you see currently we have a life manufacturing facility and manufacturing facility offices auto body shop and painting trucking open supply yard and the essential services uses those are the ones that are currently could go there without any approval from this board. There are some special exceptions that would require the court approvals.

I just wanted to kind of point that out that it's not like set as single family home. It's already industrial. We could do a lot of things there without having to go through and try to get like do the right things. And we're trying to make Beford a nice safe place. We have no intentions of bringing a ghetto to our our city. I've lived here my whole life. My family's lived here our whole life. And we take pride in anything that we do. And if it's done in its past, it will be done right. You would want your family to live there. You know, there's not enough housing in Bedford. And they are struggling to find good places to send good people. And I just feel like it's kind of discriminatory to say, "Well, they're going to steal and they're going to do this." You don't know who's going to move in there. How is that fair? Nobody said that when they moved into the addition and when they bought their homes. Nobody judged them. So, we need to think about if it's done right with your supervision. Anything that Ryan has ever done has been to the the best of his ability. He's going to make sure it's done properly. I know there's other people that's very capable of making sure that this is done and not disturb any of the neighborhood. So, I just wanted to point out what we could do without permission with, you know, because one of the neighbors said that he's already ran off um storage facilities. He's threatened my husband with a gun. And you know, I'm just tired of being bullied when we did. All we did was bought property that was vacant. Anybody else could have bought it. We were very, you know, we're very thankful that we received it and we bought it. And we would just like a fair chance to prove that it would be an asset to our community. There's not enough nice home living around in our

community. There's very few nice places to have a townhouse where you're if somebody's a widow or somebody that you know needs someplace safe to live. You're right by a church. You're close to groceries. You're close to being able to get places that you need to go. So, we have no intentions of bringing a ghetto to Bedford. We want to bring something classy, something that people could be proud to live in, that would just be an asset, maybe find them a walking buddy. you know, there's, you know, not everybody's bad. And I don't know how you can sit there and say that that's being unfair. You know, you don't know who's living there. We're not bringing in people from other places, but people in Bedford need nice homes to live in, and I don't feel like it's their place to say that it's going to be done distastefully. I appreciate all your time. If you have any questions, we're very happy to answer them, but we're going to do it with class and we're going to do it with respect. And it's a place that I would like my mother to live. If my grandmother was still alive, I would be proud to let her live there. I'm not going to do anything and put my name on it that's going to be dis not not to the best of its ability. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Anyone else?

I have one more comment. I have lived here since Becky, right? I've lived here since 1992. I've lived in various places around the city. We chose after spend saving for 20 years. We chose the southern part of Bedford because of the character of the neighborhood we had lived in. I've lived in apartments. I started out in I think it's Ridgerest behind Lowe's. Moved to R Street. I've lived in various places. the character of the neighborhood, the neighbors, it we're not bullying anybody. We're just simply wanting to keep this. I also for almost two and a half years lived in the Ted Jones Drive apartments in 1993 to 95. And they were nice. They were nice back then. I think my apartment I was the first one to live in. So, it was very nice when I got it and when I left it and I've watched it deteriorate and I've watched it not be maintained.

Which apartment? I was in apartment C on the very first unit. Ted Jones Drive. Where? Ted Jones Drive Apartment on 29th Street. If if you will look, the city has filed suit against the owners of that because of the condition of those. And so the city is on top of this making sure that uh the properties are maintained

and I would agree with you that there are problems there. The city is well aware of this and there is a suit against the ownersh. I think that the hearing will be in March of 2026, I think is what I read today. So, uh, that's going to be taken care of. I'm glad to hear that because I lived there over 30 years ago and it's only gradually declined and people have been living with it for decades and I've also noticed a town houses on Fifth Street that aren't necessarily wellmaintained. So, I'm curious.

I Okay, I know. I I'm curious how this when you're looking down the road a couple decades, how do these things get maintained when you're having people who are not investing in the neighborhood or the community full-time like the majority of people are. But thank you for listening. I appreciate I just wanted you to know I've invested my life in over 30 years. All right. Have you had anything from the letters that you sent? Um, no. I mean, I had a meeting with a couple of people, but you have nothing in writing from anyone.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing in writing. We've spoke about today. All right. Commission members, do you have anything to say? I think I have a question, Mr. Chairman. I see this this plot. Mhm. And right here in the right on uh 39th Street, it appears there's at least two houses. One with a swimming pool. I can't tell just from the top view what this third one is, if that's a house or a barn shed or whatever. And I'm curious um the owners of those this it's kind of carved out here

and it shows up on the on on Mr. Norris's preliminary plan also. Uh who who does that belong to? Me. That's yours. Okay, sir. What do you need? Well, I was just curious. I was thought if and I [clears throat] didn't know that's where you were. I thought if that was me and I was in that and it was going to be uh built around me, I'd be here one way or the other. And you have been. So, okay, that that answers my question. I own the the property where the house is and uh I have a lot right next to the house next to Mr. Norris's uh recently purchased property.

So, you have the house with the pool? No, that's Greg Indras the pool. Oh, I this little this little lot here. You got this house. [clears throat] It's kind of like a little Yeah. carve out right there. Okay. Yeah, it's a little trees and all that. Yeah. This is Greg Andress. Okay. And you have

He's out of town. Um just one more thing. Um Mrs. nor uh making a case about uh good people coming in to these apartments. I've lived before I moved to Bedford. I've lived all over this country because of my job and you can't predict who is going to rent these apartments at any time. Kevin, I think your your father was in real estate, was he? No. Steve Jones. Not my father.

Oh, not related to him. Not related to Jeff Jones that owns South Terrace. Okay. Just wonderly. [laughter] I see your point in your

Yeah. But, uh, you can't predict who's coming in. And like I said, I've lived in a lot of places. I went from New York to LA on all points in between Chicago to Florida. You uh you can't predict what's going to be happening uh like Mrs. Norris is trying to to hope with a lot of hope and I respect her for that. What their uh projects going to turn into. I've seen great projects with great intentions turn into total chaos, crime, uh violence, theft, and uh like the other people that is against this as it stands. Um it's going to destroy this neighborhood. It's been there since before it was in the city limits. My stepfather Maurice Lewis owned most of and his brother um Lewis own most of that property at one time when it was still gravel roads and some of those houses are still standing and still in great shape. Um, [clears throat] this is not this neighborhood is not a neighborhood that should be sold just for the sake of money ju and just with good intentions. The people that's lived here, like I've said before, uh, there a lot of people, these people have been here for a long time, years, years. and uh you've got to consider them and their families. Now, you know, there you know, housing is needed, but you cannot

you cannot put a whale in a fish tank. This is a small area. Oh, there's like around six acres that Mr. Norris bought. But there's a lot of uh more important things at stake with the people of this community. We pay our taxes.

You know, we would appreciate consideration for our well-beings and our lives. Please consider this very carefully. I think I speak for everybody that's been uh speaking against this today. So, please consider this very very very carefully. These are people's lives. So, thank you. I have a question. When they go to sell one of their homes, if somebody decides to sell a home, do they have to go around and ask each person who's going to buy it?

Okay. Now, folks, uh we're getting we're getting into some things here that are really not gerine to what we're speaking about. U we can't predict who's going to live there and and so on. So we're not going to fuss about that at all. Not going to let you do that. Um yes. Have you signed in? No. You need to sign in and come forward. Can I ask a question while they're signing in? I'm already in.

Okay. I I really think everyone has had a chance to speak. We've heard from you. I'll hear from new people, not from old people. We're going to get into I don't mean that your age. I mean, previous speakers because it's easy in a thing like this for you to come out, oh, I should have said so and so. We've heard from you and uh we're not going to be here all night uh listening to you back and forth. Okay. I just want to be fair with you, but uh we've heard from you and we'll hear from someone else, but uh if you've already spoken, thank you. Yes. Right over here, please.

Bobette Major. I live at 241839th Street. So, straight across from the property. Also own 2410 39th Street. We bought and lives there. Okay. He's going to be purchasing it from us. So, my husband has lived there since he was a little boy. I've been there for 25 years and raised four children there. It's very much a I don't know how to say it. It's just um a close-knit community where the same people have been there for a long time. Like the home that we bought was my neighbors. She'd been there for 60 plus years. She was family to us. When she went to sell her home, she didn't want to sell it to anyone besides family, you know. So, we bought it with the intentions of either our daughter or our son living there. She actually moved next door to her um mother and father-in-law's house. And since they passed away, their family's actually taken over.

So, you lived there a long time. Your family's lived there a long time. So, so what I I don't mean that hatefully, but what is your point about uh us having doing this or not doing this? And I don't mean to upset you at all. We hate to see the old home place changed, don't we? It's not just that. It wouldn't be a It wouldn't be a home anymore. It would be completely different, right?

I know myself. We I mean, we've talked about if it goes in, we don't want we don't want to stay. My son won't stay. I mean, we're family. We know everybody here. A lot of people have handed their houses down to their family. You know, it's just we're very close. It's very small and everybody really like it's safe and predictable.

We're all family. You know, [snorts] we have a huge garden. We try to share with everybody in the neighborhood. We're all very close. You know, if someone has a problem, we know we could go to anybody. And I just feel like it just changes the whole infrastructure with just adding lots of people. And with apartments, people are going to come and go, you know, and I it just takes away the safness, you know, for my children and my, you know, [snorts] and for our neighbors because we do have a lot of elderly neighbors and we have neighbors that are older that have handed their houses down to their grandchildren because all these people we've been here for so long together. So, I think it would just be damaging. You know, a lot of people we've talked to, I mean, they wouldn't want to stay. it would just completely change at all. Right now, I can walk up and down the road and I know everybody that's on it. I feel safe. You know, my kids up and down it. We know everybody on the circle and I just feel like adding this huge, you know, apartment building. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice or that there would be terrible people or this or that, but I mean, people are going to come and go. And with adding that many apartments, there is, you know, issues with crime and people doing things they shouldn't be doing. No one can control that.

Right. Right. So, I just really want you to consider that. Thank you so much. Thank [snorts] you. Yes, ma'am. Hi, my name is Gwen Norman and uh in 1980 And you live where? I I live I don't live in the neighborhood, but I used to own So, you do not live in this neighborhood. I used to own the stone mill. But you do not live in the neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. That's what we need to know. I don't live in the neighborhood. Okay.

But my husband and I bought that stone mill in 1990 and until he passed away in 2021. He sold it early on. And through those years, we've had we had a very big business. I don't think the man that owns it now is as busy as what my husband was. But the point is that neighborhood has always had semis pulling in. Just tonight when I went through there, there was a semi there loading stump. They talk about walking and they have these different things going on, but there are semis in and out of there all the time and there's children at risk

with that stone mill. And so

folks, please and please [clears throat] now folks let her talk. We didn't want to be interrupted. Do not interrupt her. And so what I'm saying is if you've had that stone mill there for 30 years or 40 years or however long you've lived there and you've dealt with that stone mill, which I owned and we took pride in just like I'm sure he does. But you can't you shouldn't want to stop progress when when you're saying, "Oh, I'm worried about my home." when there are semis coming in and out and backing right out into their the the streets narrow and there are semis coming in there they're loading the stone there's stone dust there's noise it so it's not like it's that quiet of a neighborhood

I think you and I are old enough to remember that that house on the corner was a rooming house and there were uh some and there's rental it's there's rental property right across the street it's not all owned. So they have rental people that's renting the property and they've met them and they've got along. All I'm saying is why can't you and this isn't going to happen in six months or three years. This is a period of time and you know so that's what I'm saying. It's a stone mill

and there's a church and it's very active. It's not that peaceful and there is other rental property on that street. Now, I I really believe it's peaceful down there. I don't think the police is in there too often. Okay. Uh I think we've heard from you folks. We've given you an opportunity to speak. We know what you said. We know your feelings and we appreciate that. Now, I think it's time for us to have any discussion that we have. Travis, you said you're working on a plan for the start. Do you have [clears throat] a time frame on what that would be?

Probably 30 days. So, we have the opportunity to approve, disapprove, or to table. Mr. Mr. Chairman, if if I might, um, obviously the neighborhood does not want a complex [clears throat] in their area and we have traditionally given significant weight to the neighbors in the area. Uh, Mrs. Norris has a very valid point that it's already zoned I2. uh an office building could go up in there, a series of office buildings, and we wouldn't even all be here. Uh I did some quick math with these plans at some 79 units uh at three or four people per unit. That comes to around 300 people that would be coming in there. Um, if this was an office complex at a shopping, what whatever that might be, we it could be an auto body shop specifically. It says it could. Um, so while I hear the concerns, that doesn't bother me as much as these very preliminary plans. Every time we have had some larger addition or construction going on, uh we have had a lot of plans that we could look and see where are the sidewalks. I see parking spots and it looks like there's enough for the people, but uh we we would have plans where we see the distances between these various

buildings and there's several of them in here. Um the the question came up about the roads and the width of those roads. I'd like to see those plans, the the street lights, the fire hydrants, the sidewalks, all of these things that if the city is taking this over eventually, as they usually do in these additions, that we would have addressed early on. And I don't see that at this point. uh that's not enough uh for me to rail against it, but I'm not comfortable with what I have in front of me to be able to to move this ahead at this point. I would like to have more information.

I concur with Steve. I mean, we've always had more information. That's why I asked the question uh if you were working with anyone and I guess already asked the question on the time frame. Uh so at this point no one else has a a statement or anything. I'd make a motion to table until next month's meeting or until we get the information. Yeah. Whichever comes first. Are you agreeable with that as a motion? Yes.

Okay. So, the motion is that we table this until we get either till next month or we get the plans that we that are necessary for us to move forward with this. Okay. So, that is the motion. Do I have a second? I'll second that one. We have a second that motion. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor of the motion say I. I.

Those opposed? No. The motion passes. So uh we will wait until we have more information before the comments that have been made are valuable to us. Uh in this uh I I think uh not only your concerns about who would be there. I had a house sell across the street from me a couple years ago and I didn't know who was moving in but I like her pretty well. And so and I hope that they have some kids there that uh that your kids can join and have fun with. If this happen, I don't know what we'll do with we want more information. So we passed and we're going to table this until we get more information, more complete information as to what we're going to do. Okay. So we'll move on to the next item of business, which is some place here. Um my paper Thank you. So the the next item of business uh is a public hearing for Cole Sinclair who subdivision on the northwest corner of John Wayne Boulevard and Bellback Road. Is Cole Sinclair here? Travis is here. You want to talk to us?

I'm Travis Norman representing Cole Sinclair. He's looking to do a minor subdivision on this property there at the corner northeast corner of Bellback and John Williams Boulevard. Folks, could I folks folks, excuse me, excuse me. We have to hear this next presentation. So, take it outside, please. Thank you. Go ahead, Travis.

So, he's looking to do a minor subdivision here and split this into some lots. Last time we were here, we also part of that plat going to vacate a drainage ement. We we are not asking to vacate that drainage ement anymore. If you look on the new drawing, we're actually going to move it and center it better on now where we know where the cave is. We can center it more and keep that easement in place. So where the old easement was wasn't quite centered to where the cave opening was, where it went through the retention pond. So we don't want to vacate it anymore. We actually with this platinum to move it and center it more to where we know the cave is due to our you've done a lot of studies now. So we know exactly what's going on here. So we're not want to vacate. We're actually want to make it wider. Instead of 100 foot, we're wanting to make it 132 feet wide

for the easement. For the easement. Yeah. Would that be a legal easement made at that?

So as soon if this plat was approved tonight, that would be the new permanent easement for that location. And it actually fits the cavern better than what the old easement was when uh Tom Miller did the geo flow. Yeah. So, that will be part of this minor sub. We're still splitting the property up into tracks, but I just want to make you aware that we're not looking to vacate it, but we do want to move it. And if you can see the two dash lines on each side of the existing drainage pond, that centers it perfectly up on where the opening comes out of the cave. Because what happens here is on the east side of this property by Williams Park Drive, it goes through a ditch and comes to a cave opening. Goes in the cave, comes up somehow, then empties across this property and flows over there. Yeah, there's the drawing. So the two dash lines, that's where the new will be. Originally, the ement was down in here. We're shifting it to the north to where that is. Yeah.

Yeah. And so this is what we're talking about. That's correct. Yeah. So the original ement was down in here. So we're to shift it north to center it more on where that comes out of the cave to make sure we capture this area and make sure it's protected. Where's the cave? The cave opening is here on this other property and it comes out right there. So it basically does we don't know what it does down in the cave, but somehow it comes up and then just spills out into this property. There's a lot of work already taking place right here on this property. That's correct. Yeah. Is that interfering with any of that?

It's not. I've been in talk with Doug and Misty on what's happening on that property. So, we're going to conserve that area also to keep that cave opening not disturbed. If you notice, there's still trees and stuff there. We're keeping it like a conservicing area for that. Okay. you. Is this the engineering plans? Show how they're going to handle the storm water. This is the plan that has given me. Yeah. And I sent it to Adam today and she's here to look at it. I'm not sure how long she had to look at it. That's why I asked her to be here today because I knew everybody had concerns. I have concerns,

but I have to defer to her because I don't know much about storm water. Yeah. I mean we have concerns that it needs to remain the way it is for the flow of what we have there and I don't know what I guess what shifting that what will that do Travis it actually will benefit us because when we plotted it originally for Tom Miller we had to use it too far south so in our studies now of seeing how that water flows we need to shift it north to center it more on that because where it's at right now will not protect the opening as much so it's like right on the edge of that opening where it flows across property.

So shifting it will benefit the city and everyone involved. They'll just center it up and give us an extra area to protect that that's a problem area with storm water. Um and that acts as a little bit of a retention per se before it goes and then gets over to Bundy Lane. Bundy Lane does flood. Um there's a lot of flooding in that area already. So it is a concern that this stays the way it is. there's no disturbance to this and that's why we want to shift it to center more. So I want to be clear you when you say shift it are you adding to or modifying?

We're actually modifying because the way it was originally with Tom it was too far south so it almost didn't catch the opening of the cave where it comes into near nearest John William Boulevard that would still be vacated. That's correct because it's up on a hill so it really didn't need to be part of it. it falls off 20 feet down to where that cave opening is where it comes out. So, the reason for shifting it is that ement wasn't really needed because it's up on high ground. It needs to be down in that lower area to protect that down there. Let's see. How do you feel about that? Would you be what would you be using the high area for?

Well, right now the engineer that's designing this for coal, I'm not involved. So, they're looking at this property and they're not for sure if it's even going to be feasible to do anything here just because it falls off so drastically from John Williams Drive or Boulevard. So, we're not for sure what will happen and there's not enough room on top to even do a development. By the time it falls off, you've only got like 75 ft from the rideway. So, state trails. Yes, that will be if this plat's approved today. That will be the permanent easement. But I mean, is it already preliminary stake out there or no? It is what you're asking. Yes. So, we can go look at it. Yep. For sure. I haven't been out there today.

So, again, so you'll be clear, he's moving he's moving the easement that is nearest John Williams Boulevard that's in the previous uh maps, right? And actually vacating that area, per se. I mean, that's what you're really doing. You're vacating that that we originally have and just moving it uh to the north.

Yeah. And it fits the opening better because the where that where it comes up in a cave and it flows out into this property is not centered on the easement as it sits right now. Right now the very north edge of it is right on the open. So by shifting it north you take out that high ground that really doesn't need a drainage ement and it shifts it into that lower area. So if it is developed, they have to honor that drainage easement. So they've got to come up with a plan to make sure all that volume of water can get through there no matter what they do at that level. [snorts] But that property will be a hard development. I mean, it's not going to be easy to do. For sure this Yes. Correct.

Because that catches all the runoff pretty much from geoflow. It catches all the runoff from what we're doing to the east of it. It catches everything from the new roundabout west. It catches everything from Walmart. As we've done the study, there's three pipes that come into the other property we're going to talk about tonight. It comes from the retention pond at Walmart. And then there's two 24in pipes that come from John Wind Boulevard for all the curb inlets and different things. All I ever envision is what what you see on TV all the time now. I think uh communities have let builders build and developers build where over the past we would never let anyone build and now the road collapses when the when the storm water washes out the you know the terrain underneath. I just

and that's the whole reason for moving this thing to make sure we protect that area because right now if we leave it like it is it won't be protected. All we're doing at that point is protecting the high ground where that entrance is that comes off John Williams. If we shift it forward, it's going to protect that area for sure. So, you told us it's probably uh the probability of actually developing that area where the ement actually is now is very low that they would ever do that. Just the infrastructure cost would be astronomical. I was hoping that you would just move the entire easement uh from the road all the way back to where you're at now instead of just taking a portion of it and move it up.

Yeah. Well, we're moving the whole ement and we're actually making it wider because originally it went from the rideway at John Williams and we only went 75 ft with it and that just barely caught the opening by shifting it all to the north. now catches all that low area and it catches where that existing drainage pond is where all that water goes into. Yeah. And like you said, you don't know where it goes from there, right? Well, once it goes into that retention pond, it goes across bellback and it only goes through a 12-in pipe. So, you think about all the volume of water that's coming through there. The cave itself that sits underneath this is holding all this water like a retention pump.

You know what it does? I don't know. Never been in there. But it basically raises up and releases like a weir wall and then goes across this property and then it funnels into a 12-in pipe that goes across the oldies from there. So my question is, is this a all or nothing? I mean, if we say we want to maintain the easement that we have for drainage, they still don't want to do the subdivision or or what, you know?

Well, this minor plot, you're subdividing the property. At the end of the day, they've got to come before you guys with a set of plans. If they decide to develop that, they've got to come before you guys and say, "Hey, this is what we plan to do in here. Will it satisfy your needs?" The drainage ement's there. So, they can't get away from it if this plan's approved. They have to honor that drainage ement in that location. So, they'll come to you guys with the plan and say, "Hey, here's our plan. You know, we're going to put in two 60-inch culvers and fill it up with dirt." At that point, it's up to you guys to approve it or deny it. Is it sufficient enough to hold all that water in that location? The benefit of having this easement is it protects you guys down the road. So, if anything goes forward with planning, they have to honor it. They have to respect that water that's coming into it.

Travis, is that an actual cave or is it a sinkhole or do you know? It's a great question. And I pulled up maps from IU Geological and they show some veins going out and it's actually pretty good size vein system, believe it or not, that goes out, but where it goes, no one's ever really been inside of it to explore, but there is a lot of fingers that go out from this that holds the water for it. And Kevin, for you, what is this parcel that we are being requested to to split off into two parcels? What's that zoned right now? That parcel is B3. A B3.

Everything else around it is I2 or I1. I can't remember. But that one particularly is B3. And that was done years ago. So, moving from memory and I could look it up, but B3 if if it was going to be a a business in there, if we would subdivide this, there would be two businesses go in uh and we wouldn't have any kind of a any kind of a look at it as far as uh as drainage for that kind of thing. uh that to know it was going in there. The very thing I hit the Norrises with, we wouldn't see the plans

to the depth that that's correct. Yeah. Misty, you'd be involved in that at that point, right? They would have to get a rule five, what they call it now, a general permit for storm water. Okay. Yeah. And I agree that south corner there, I don't know that it's going to end up being large enough to really do much with. So, right. And we did make that lot bigger to 3.25 acres, but still it's it's just a tough build. It falls off so much from John Williams Boulevard. And it's more of an interest, if I'm not mistaken, to do that north part of track two, right? Is what they wish to use for development.

Yeah. Later down the road, basically the whole north end of this property is just power lines. I mean, it's useless. But from that wood line back to where the north line of this southern track will be, that would be a decent buildable track for something. This track two that's right there what we're talking about where the easement is. That will be a tough build there. No doubt about it. That's pretty gnarly in there. I drove down there and looked the other day just from Bellback and I didn't park and go to look at a cave or a sinkhole or whatever we've got.

And you can see the opening on the other side of this. You can walk back there and see it. I mean, it's got rocks pile up around it and it's protected. So, I don't want to jump ahead, but the next project we're going to look at, that area will be protected. So, like the opening of the cave itself will have a big rip wrap wall BM around it to keep sediment from going in it, you know, different things like that to protect it. And whoever develops what we're looking at here for Cole, they'll have to put a very elaborate plan together and go through Misty, they'll have to go through Kevin before they can get it approved to make sure it'll, you know, withstand what they're wanting to do there.

Misty, are you happy with this or do you want to study this first? I would like to see them the markings of the easement u and do a little bit more research on it because we had we I had met with Travis but we hadn't talked about shifting the ement or any of that I think beforehand. So um you know it's a very sensitive area. It's a lot of flooding and I sure don't want to do anything to to cause more problems there.

I I think that's wise so they can see these and I can kind of show them what I found as far as my studies go to make sure don't know really what happens to that water. I mean, it's weird how it goes. It It disappears and then it comes up. And I I hate to ask for rain, but sometimes it's nice to see it raining and see exactly what it does. And the last rain we had, I went down there and I watched it and seeing what happened. I mean, within a matter of 30 minutes, that water started bubbling up and flowing on to this property and it started coming out. But it took it 30 minutes to come up. So, whatever it's doing down in there, it's filling up and holding it somewhere. I just get some retention out of it which is what we need.

Yeah. And when Walmart developed this was part of Walmart's property when they did this and Walmart did an in-depth study and I was able to talk to their engineers which is Horn Properties out of Tennessee and they actually had some geotechnical work that they shared with me and we was able to figure out kind of what they were seeing from a drainage analysis but that was back in the 90s and how much more development development has happened in that area since then. you know, you had Walmart, then we had John Williams Boulevard, then we've had all that development to the east of there also. So again, I think we're at the point that we can either deny accept the table.

I'll jump in there and make a motion to table until uh the city has had enough time to uh investigate and look at the uh the drainage possibilities. I have a motion. We uh could I wait to get a second before we comment? I will second that. All right. Comment if I may. Uh we we tabled this a month ago to get Misty involved and it sounds like I I hate to hold Mr. Sinclair up on it,

but by the same token, we got to get this right. There's just a whole lot that could go wrong. And I'd rather the experts come back to us and say, "Here's what's going to happen that we can figure out at the even the 95% level." Yeah. [clears throat] And I don't want to hold it up either, but I want to make the city comfortable with what we're doing. Well, until yesterday, we didn't really realize where the easement even was as far as staking it or anything like that. So, I had no idea that it was offset from the cave or any of that. So yeah. So we have a motion and a second. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I.

Those opposed? No. So we've tabled that again. All right. Now we're getting into new business. Um Oh. Uh yes. I want the record to show that uh Craig abstained in voting on that. He has a vested interest in it. Um, first item of new business is a limited hearing for Victoria Baker is requesting a special exception use in PR district at 512 Peace Street for the purpose of operating a retail store. An antique mall of dislocation request approval of planning commission be heard by the zoning board. And I think Victoria, I'm here. Hey, how are you?

I'm already This is the old gym, right? Yes. Okay. So, we've made it through the reszoning for the studio. So, and we reszoned it to a uh professional um what is the zoning, Kevin? That we professional res professional residential, which um accounts for the studios that I wanted. But now, what I'd like to do is request permission to put in a retail space for the antique mall. Okay. Now, do we have to go uh any questions from her? Okay. Do we have to go uh to the zoning board next? It does.

Okay. So, we need to decide, are we going to send this to the zoning board? Is that correct? That's correct. Do I have a motion? I'll make the motion. I have a motion to send it to the zoning board. I'll second. And we have a second. Any comment on the motion? All in favor say I. Those opposed, no. The motion passes and what they So there you go. Okay. Thank you.

Uh now uh to extradite people who have had to sit here for a long time, we're going to move item five under the new business to become item two. So this is a preliminary hearing for James Mcomes who is requesting a minor subdivision at 2801 North South Farm Road into two parcels. One parcel will be 1.8 8128 acres. The other parcel 665 acres which would be 26,661 square ft. The property is zone R1. Yes. Yes. I am James Mcomes and I live 2801 North Southport Farmworks and I'm just wanted to divide this so that with the lack of land around here so that my son could build a home next door, take care of his old parents. [laughter] I

think I know where subdivision one, just as a matter of reference, how close is this to point? Uh, Whites Point. This is a You have to go past Whites Point and it's the first road on the right. You go up the hill and we are almost we're one house from the Hidden Acres Drive which is almost I live in Whites Point. I just want to make sure this wasn't a complic we built a new home on this property seven years ago. Okay. And uh we built to one end of the property and we're wanting to put him on the other end. We're almost there to uh the airport. Okay. Yeah, we're real close to the airport. I watch the airplane land. Are you getting the big area or

Yeah, the house is on the big area and and we're putting a we're wanting to build a a 1400 ft two-bedroom, two bath home on that property for our son. Anyone else have a question for him? So, we would send this to public hearing. Thank you. You have a motion? I'll make the motion. Have a motion to send this to a public hearing in our next meeting. I have a second. I'll second that. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I.O. Anyone opposed? Say no. See you next. All right. Thank you.

Okay. Um, now we go to item number two, which is item number three. A public hearing for Kenny Blackwell. Is this public hearing for him? It is because it's a major subdivision.

Okay. Public hearing for Kenny Blackwell to request a major subdivision track three of the Bedford development minor subdivision plant located in Williams Park Drive and John Wayne Boulevard. The parcel is 5.66 acres and they request to subdivide it into six lots. The property is zone I2. Mr. Blackwell, are you here? Are you here? Okay, let us find what we're talking about here. Travis, this is the big drawing of it here also. Okay, this

Okay, go.

Yeah. So, Kenny Blackwell of Blackwell Development out of Bloomington, Indiana. He's [clears throat] looking to do a six lot major subdivision. It'll be a commercial subdivision there in the northwest quadrant of Williams Park and John Williams Boulevard. Um, if you have the plan in front of you, we'll have five commercial lots to sell. They'll range in size from 7,900 of an acre all the way up to 1.37 acres. The sixth lot is where the cave opening is. That will be set aside as a drainage easement area and it'll be protected um in that area. We are proposing a 500 foot new roadway to be put in with a culde-sac in the middle for emergency vehicles to turn around in and get back out. Um the grading on this site will be very minimal just due to the terrain of it. We'll be able to to grade it fairly easy. There won't be a lot of mass dirt moving. The only area we will have a lot of dirt put in fill is there's a big ditch there right there in the northwest quadrant. You can kind of see it from the highway or from John Williams. Now, we have talked with Misty and Doug. We are looking to extend there's an existing head wall there. Now, we're looking to take those three pipes and extend them west over to within 75 ft of the cave opening where that drainage ement is and we're going to fill that area in. So, we're just basically taking the existing pipes are there and extending them west to the cave opening within 75 ft of the cave opening. That way, we can fill that area in, dress it up, and make it a buildable lot there. There will also still be a drainage easement on those pipes. So when we plat this, we will have a 30-foot easement on the center of the pipes. So where the center of the pipe is, it'll be 30 foot wide for a drainage ement. So that area is always protected. If the city needs to get in there and work on the pipes or anything, it will be part of this plat. But that will be our biggest area where we'll be putting fill in to fill that big ditch up.

So you're putting six lots back there. We are. for six businesses. That's correct. And is this uh beyond the dentist office? It'd be right across the road from the dentist office. Okay. So, it's all going to be in front of Geoflow. That's correct. Yeah. Point of clarification. So, five businesses, right? There'll be five businesses then one lot will be the drainage. Yeah. Does this extend to where they're doing the the woods, cutting the wood over here where you see that? That is that is this development. Yeah. So, right now, they're just clearing off the trees and opening up so you can see what's kind of going on in there with the property.

Years ago, Mr. Miller came before us and he said that he was going to put a nice fountain out there and things like that and was going to have an opening out onto John Williams Boulevard where you go into Walmart where that stoplight would take care of the traffic problem. Mhm. Is that still a possibility?

That would actually going right through the cave opening if you did that because the cave opening pretty much lines up with the entrance to Walmart. Yeah. Now there when they did John Williams Boulevard, like if you look at lot five, there is a curb cut there already. You'll see a note on there says entrance and exit. It's lot five. There's already a curb cut there for that lot that was done when they developed John Williams Boulevard. Is that what what this little illustration? That's correct. Yes, sir. Y I've seen it today. Yeah. which is a great spot because it's up on top of the hill so you have line of sight and either way whoever develops

I'm concerned Travis about the amount of traffic that's going to come out on the John Williams Boulevard other business back there

and that is an honest concern and what we're we have an addendum to this also on this development as you come out of Williams Park obviously you know the stoplight's less than 100 ft from this entrance. We're proposing to possibly put a median there. So, if you're leaving Williams Park, you have to turn right. You can't go across traffic. So, as part of our design, we have thrown in a concrete median there to keep people from going left or east. They'll have to go to the right. And the people wanting to come in there will have to go up to the new roundabout to get back in. Could we put a J turn in there? a J turn. [laughter]

Well, we could. Would that So, the that apply to the curb cut out there on lot five if there's a entrance or exit just because that has good line of sight. Okay. To where you can get in and out pretty easy. The only thing is when you're pulling out of Williams Park Drive, I mean, it gets pretty congested there

and traffic gets backed up. So doing it this way will force people leaving there to go right. Okay. Um the only bad thing about them going right is there's not a roundabout to loop them back. So they're going to have to hang a left and go on to, you know, James Drive or whatever that is there to come back. Going the other way, you do have the culac where you can loop back around and get back in. So actually the cult going in or the roundabout did us a favor with this development. this meeting that you're going to put in, you won't have a a way for people coming this way to like in front of Starbucks where you can you can go east and still get in there even though you're not supposed to, right?

Is this media going to be the same thing? They would have to jump the curb if they were going to do it. Yeah. So, it'll come it'll come down Williams Park and then it's going to flare out to where it forces them to do, you know, if you're coming in, you got to come this way. If you're going that way, you have to go that way or you jump the curb. What about the sidewalk? We will be putting sidewalks in for this development. There will be lighting. We're proposing three light poles. I'm talking about sidewalks on John Williams Boulevard. Um well, that would fall within the rideway of the city because the city purchased right of the way there for John Williams Boulevard. And the sidewalk doesn't come all the way down there, does it? That's correct. Okay.

Yeah. But we will have sidewalks on our development taking you out to the the main road there. But we won't have anything that will connect to a public sidewalk just because they're not there. Is that med on here?

I've got it on this little plan. It's not on this one, but you can see it here. What we're proposing if you want to pass it around, we'll have, you know, it's going to be stripes. So have turn arrows there telling people they have to go one way or another. [clears throat] Yeah. So, it'll all be striped. There'll be a stop bar there. And that will be a 6-in turb to make sure people aren't jumping it. And like I say, the arrows will be painted, you know, telling people you got to go right and it's entrance only type thing. And it'll be plenty of room there because that road's 25 ft wide. So, there's enough room for semis to get into geoflow and to leave geoflow. So, that would accommodate a 53 foot trailer coming and going. Travis, is there an is there an existing easement where the cave is now on this property?

There's not. Okay. Yeah. So, right now, we do not have an existing easement. We have an easement for where the head wall is, but we do not have anything for the cave opening at all. So, putting this in place will protect that cave opening and all the runoff that comes to it from pretty much that whole side of the John Wayne Boulevard. How do you feel about this? We met with Travis out there. Um they they did agree that they would extend the pipes um down there. Um I think it will not cause any other issues um that we could see.

We're not going to be changing the obstruction of the flow. We're just extending those pipes is what we're doing. And we're not trying to throttle it down to a smaller pipe. We're staying with the same size and taking it out. Now, around where the cave opening is, we are going to put in what they call a temporary sediment trap. And this will be more of a permanent sediment trap. So, it'll be rip wrap with number 53 stone on the front of it all the way around. So, if anything comes from offsite that's got dirt in it or anything, it will filtrate through before it goes into the cave so we don't pollute anything. Are you happy with this traffic situation?

I'm concerned about the traffic situation. I've had a conversation with the with David Flynn, the street commissioner. Uh he and I are supposed to meet with the mayor to have a further discussion about it. There's been preliminary thought of maybe doing a study to see about rearranging that light or adding on to the light that actually is Walmart's light. Um, but that's as far as we've gotten at this point. Will the chief of police be involved in this? I'm sure we will include this. So, this this is technically a public hearing, correct? [clears throat]

This is a public hearing. Yes. Has there been any response? I did not receive any phone calls, emails, anything about anybody has noticed. There are several businesses. There's a dentist. There's uh

Farm Bureau is there. Geoflow is back in the back. Um, I'm thinking [clears throat] they may decide to, and I'm surprised they haven't, if they know about this this traffic flow change that's going to affect them and their customers big time more than just I mean it's certainly larger than these five blocks uh of businesses. People coming out of there will be able to turn left or right still coming out of the dentist office. No, they'll have to go right to the

if we do the Farm Bureau might have that because they have another entrance there on to the east on the Farm Bureau building. Correct. True. They do Farm Bureau has they come in off of Williams Park and you'll have people trying to cheat system by parking lot

you know and I when they did the Walmart development this road came after Walmart from what I can tell so it wasn't really you know this was a planned development so when it was done nobody even thought about you know, traffic has picked up since then and different things. But, you know, in looking at it, boy, it's a tough thing to fix, you know, to solve just because of how close it is to Walmart. And if you go to try to res situate Walmart, you got their retention pond there. That's going to come into play. So, you couldn't really come out esther drive because then you're going to get into their retention pond type thing. And then when you start looking at redoing an intersection at traffic lights, it gets expensive real quick on things.

I think the natural tendency is to go west anyway coming out of there because of the the traffic. I mean that is the way I went today. Yeah, you're right. Which lot is by looking to buy lot five. Uh if this doesn't work out on what he's doing originally, Cole is looking at lot five. Okay. Gotcha. to have the entrance there on John Williams. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a lot of interest in these lots. You know, there hasn't been any for sale signs put up or anything, just his sign. And there's been three people hitting pretty hard that are interested in these lots.

Would we be wise to wait until after the people studied the traffic thing before we would move on this? Traffic studies going to take months. Yeah, it'll take months. Will you have another hearing? I mean, next month, even though it's a public hearing, you still have next month. Yeah, it comes back to you next month. And that may give us time to meet with the city, the mayor, and kind of go through what we need to on this. But for me looking at it, the only thing I could come up with was the median. And we actually even talked about, you know, some other options, but the median is the simplest solution to the traffic issue. And you are going to put that in?

Yeah. Well, I mean, if you tell me we have to, we have to. [laughter] Now, if you don't tell me we have to, I'm not going to. Make sure you put that in there. I'm just saying. And we're going to make Travis put his initials in that meeting. I'll put it right. So, so right now, this is zone I2, it says on our thing. And you're not looking for zoning at this point. Are you going to come back to us? Yes. Okay. We'll be coming back for a reason. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to go back to the same thing that I did earlier. We're going to want to see some significant plans on how this is going to work

before we before we approve the resoning. So there's still some risk to in all of this both from the traffic and from the drainage and from the the businesses that may want to go because I thought from looking at it was probably going to come back to us because I didn't see this be what fits in the I2 where it just yeah is done deal and we don't get a crack at.

So what you see in front of you is our grading and drainage plan and the road plan. So, I'll have a full rule five plan and everything when we come in for the res. You know, we just didn't want to get too deep into it costwise. We wanted to get you enough to where you could see what was happening grading wise, drainage wise, lot layout to make sure it was going to work for this area. So, commission, what are you going to do with it? I'll make the motion to move it on to another public hearing. Is that it? Or just to approve?

The way it reads is the first one is the public hearing and it comes back to you again for your final and at that final hearing next month, I will have a full set of construction plans for you. I'll make a motion to move it on to the meeting, another meeting next month. uh with the idea that the median will be in it. Absolutely. [laughter] Well, we don't want these things to slip up on us for sure. Yeah. We want to protect the public. So, I have a motion. I'll second it.

I have a second. Any discussion? All in favor say I. And he is abstaining. Anyone opposed? Motion passes. All right. I think the next item is a preliminary hearing from Adam Shastain. That's you. All right. [laughter] Yeah. So, you got all these name changes. What's that? Does your mother know he's got all these? I got a lot of aliases. [laughter] All right.

Yeah. So, I'm representing Adam Chastain. He owns two city lots at the northeast corner of I Street and Seventh Street. Uh the lots right now are 45 ft wide each one of them by 150 ft. He's looking to reorient these. Right now the lots go east west. He's want to split it north south and do two bigger lots. So instead of being 45 ft wide, they'll be 75 ft by 90 ft, which will make them 6750 square feet in size. Did this property used to have a lot of signs on it? Sure did. Yeah. So, we are aware of where it is. Yeah. Any questions?

Yeah. So, you're saying that the dividing line would be north and south.

That's correct. Instead of east, west. Right now, the lots go east west and they're 45 by 150. So, we're looking at going north south and going 75 by 90. Now let let me yeah this this came before uh zoning two weeks ago and the request then was to take this lot and divide it into three which made all three of them out of compliance because they were too small and we rejected that. So now this is coming back for a subdivision into two which

takes one lot that's in compliance makes two lots that are in compliance still we it has the zoning can't get a crack at it and didn't like the initial plan. So are you making a motion that we send this back? It wouldn't be sending it back. That one. Okay, that one's done. So, it would come back to us for a This is just a preliminary hearing to let him subdivide it into two. So, it would come back to us for a public hearing next. I'll make a motion that we um send it to a public hearing next.

I have a motion to send a public hearing. I'll second that. I have a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. Those opposed? No. Okay. Are you Jody C? I am. [laughter]

All right. This is a preliminary hearing. It's always something. Jody Cob to reconfigure L & D lot 10, 50 by 180, L & D lot 11, 43 by 180, L & D partial lot 12, 4343 for a minor subdivision to become free lot. Lot two will be 50 by 130, 6,500 ft. Lot 2 A will be 50 by 130 6500 square ft. Lot 2B will be 43 by 50 5590 square ft. The zone PR for a minimum square footage is 6,000 ft and the boards of zoning granted a variance for lot 2B. Is that correct? That's correct.

All right. Talk to us Travis. Yeah. So, he's got three tracks of land here and he's just reconfigured those and and have three lots. Um, two of the lots run east west. There was a small lot in the northeast quadrant there that was just like a 50 by 50 lot. So, he's looking to bring it into compliance by creating a lot that goes north south there. And then he'll have two east to west lots that border on P Street and 25th Street. [snorts] And like they said, we did get a variance for lot 2B since it's under the 6,000 square feet uh to get the 5590 for that one. This is P and what? Uh P and 25th right there by D.

This is over by Dun Hospital. It's the It's those houses in they've been doctor's offices. They've been Okay. Various things. They're across the street from from Dun used to be done. Okay. All right. Um, any concerns? The zoning board granted the variance. Any comments? You people on the zoning board have anything to tell us? Do we have a motion to move it to a public hearing? I make that motion to move it to a public hearing. I hear a motion. Do I hear a second?

I'll second. There a motion and a second. Any comments? All in favor say I. I. Those oppos? No. Passes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sticking with us. You did better than you did. You would like one or six.

Do you have a motion to adjourn? Do I have a motion to adjurnn? I have a motion. I have a motion to adjurnn. Anyone second? Second. I hear a second. All in favor say I.