Board of County Commissioners - Regular Meeting

Bye. Thank you. Bye. Good morning Seminole County.

Are you doing the pictures after consent? I was like, oh, I have to tell you.

Good morning, Seminole County.

You need your gavel.

I don't need the gavel. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to call this meeting to order. If you would, please silence your cell phones. That means me too. And I am going to invite Pastor Bob Melhorn from Integrity Church up to do the invocation and then lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Good morning, everybody. Let's be in prayer. O Holy One, you have blessed us with yet another day. We are indeed privileged and grateful. And we thank you for your presence among us today, and I want to ask your blessing upon our county commissioners, our county manager, all who work for the great county, Seminole County, and we thank you for the privilege of living in such a beautiful part of the creation. As we move through the agenda today, we are going to be mindful that there are so many challenges and often it feels that our resources seem inadequate, but we remember, Holy One, that you have blessed us richly, you are the provider, you have never failed us, and you will grant us what we need for the times we live in. All this we lift up to you in the great name of Jesus. Amen. with allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Pastor, thank you very much. Thank you for being here. We're going to start this morning with two proclamations. I am pulling item number three from the consent agenda and moving it up so that we can read it out loud. We have wonderful folks from that organization here in the audience. Commissioner Zimbauer is going to start by proclaiming Specialist Elton Hogan of the United States Army as our Veteran of the Month for the month of July.

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is my honor to read this proclamation on the cusp of our 250th anniversary here in this country and for these individuals and their families who many have paid the ultimate sacrifice for us to be able to assemble and have the freedom of speech that we each and every one enjoy every day. The proclamation of the Seminole County Board of County Commissioners recognized United States Army Specialist Elton R. Hogan for his outstanding service to the United States and Seminole County. Whereas the brave men and women of our Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Space Force demonstrate a resolute spirit and unmatched selflessness, reminding us there are few things more American than giving of ourselves to make a difference in the lives of others. And whereas, throughout our country's history, generations of service members have answered the call to leave their families, their jobs, and put their futures and even their lives on the line to valiantly defend our nation. And whereas, for many service members, the sacrifices end in a permanent injury or death, yet their spirit remains in the continued preservation of our freedoms and the promise of liberty. Whereas, there are more than 30,000 living veterans in Seminole County who served our nation in times of peace and war. Through their service, they kept America strong. And whereas, Specialist Hogan carries forward a proud family tradition of military service spanning generations. Following in the footsteps of his father, a veteran of World War II and the Korean War, and alongside his son, a United States Marine, Specialist Hogan entered the U.S. Army in 1966. He served honorably as a military police officer at Fort Benning and Fort Gordon, before his honorable discharge in 1968. His service reflects a lifelong commitment to duty, patriotism, and the enduring legacy of the Hogan family. And whereas Specialist Hogan's commitment to service continued long after his military career, following his time in the military, he earned his degree from Georgia Tech and went on to build a successful career in Central Florida's commercial construction industry as an estimator. In 1975, he and his wife Monica made Seminole County their home, where they raised their daughter and son and later enjoyed watching their two granddaughters grow up next door. For more than 50 years, Specialist Hogan has been a dedicated and respected member of the community, contributing his expertise, integrity, and steadfast presence to those around him. And whereas, upon fully retiring from the civilian sector in 1995, Specialist Hogan continued his commitment to serving others through the American Legion Post 243. A passionate advocate for the American Legion's Americanism program, He educates Seminole County youth on patriotism, citizenship, and respect for the American flag. His humility, leadership, and unwavering dedication to veterans and the community continue to make a lasting impact through Seminole County. Whereas Specialist Hogan has brought great credit and distinction upon himself, the United States of America, the United States Army, and Seminole County. now therefore be it proclaimed that we the board of county commissioners of seminole county florida express our gratitude admiration and respect for specialist hogan for his outstanding service to the united states army be it further proclaimed this proclamation is presented to specialist elton r hogan along with our sincere congratulations and recognition as seminole county's veterans of the month adopted this 14th day of july 2026. second

I have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Hearing none, passes unanimously. Congratulations.

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I can't tell you how honored I am to receive this award. It makes me think. We were just talking about our 250th anniversary of our country. Back when our country was founded, the founders thought that there should be a standing, what they called a standing army, a group of professional military people. But they figured also that the defense of our country lay in what they called the citizen soldier. People who gave up part of their lives to serve their country and then returned to their community to also live the rest of their life and to serve their community. These citizen soldiers are the people that your Seminole County Veterans Service officers serve. And I want to thank you on the behalf of all of us citizen soldiers for the support that this body gives to the veterans of our county. Again, I'm honored and thank you all very much.

Thank you.

Specialist Hogan, those were remarkable words. I thank you. I thank all of you for your service. We're going to read one more, and then we'll bring you up for pictures. And these guys are really well-versed at jumping up for pictures, so no worries.

You'll have a lot of directors.

Commissioners, if you'll give me privilege, I'd like to read the following resolution of the Seminole County Board of County Commissioners recognizing the celebration of the 15th year anniversary of CORE, the Center of Recovery and Exercise, and the CORE Foundation in Seminole County. Whereas CORE was established in 2011 to provide activity-based training program to optimize the function, health, and independence for those with paralysis, from spinal cord injuries and other neurological injuries and disorders. And whereas the CORE Foundation was established in 2011 to support individuals who otherwise could not afford an activity-based training program, that has proven to improve their physical, mental, and clinical outcomes. And whereas the majority of CORE and CORE Foundation clients reside in Central Florida, and whereas many clients travel to CORE because the activity-based training program is not available where they reside in other parts of Florida, other states, and even other countries. And whereas CORE provides unique access to aquatic activity-based training in a state-of-the-art SwimX pool, And Whereas Core provides a bridge in the gap between traditional rehabilitation and the lifelong demands of paralysis, helping individuals move beyond their limitations, live an active lifestyle, and prevent secondary medical complications. And Whereas Core established in 2016 the Rock Steady Boxing Orlando Program, which enables people with Parkinson's disease to fight their disease, and gives hope for improving their quality of life through a non-contact boxing-based fitness curriculum. And whereas CORE and the CORE Foundation are committed to providing these life-enhancing services in Central Florida and specifically here in Seminole County. Now therefore, be it resolved that we, the Board of County Commissioners of Seminole County, Florida, do hereby congratulate CORE and the CORE Foundation on this milestone achievement of 15 years of service to Central Florida and Seminole County, adopted this 14th day of July, 2026. Second. Have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Hearing none, it passes unanimously. We do have the founding family of CORE, which is Matthew Davies and Melody Patton Davies in the back and the team. They'll come up for pictures later. I've asked them if they'd like to say a few words, and they are not going to say a few words this morning. But they do have a fundraising event that funds their foundation that they'll be hosting, and we'll be reading this at that same event. And I suspect there will be a few words spoken there. So now we'll do pictures, commissioners, down on the floor, and we'll start with our veteran of the month.

Good night, everyone.

My family and all of my buddies, come on up here.

Okay, how about family members? Family members up first. Oh! Oh, hey.

I got to help, I got to help. Thank you.

Don't stay here.

Come on, guys.

Try not to do that. Thank you for having us. Yes, they are. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Amen.

Thank you. If Bob's got it.

All right, commissioners, that brings us to the consent agenda. Are there any additions, deletions, or modifications other than number three?

No, ma'am. No changes to the consent agenda except for item three.

Commissioners?

Nothing to pull. I'm ready to make a motion, Madam Chair. Move to... Public input, sorry.

Is there any public input? No, ma'am. Now you're ready to make a motion.

I move to approve item number two and items four through 19.

I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Hearing none, it passes unanimously. Thank you very much. That brings us to regular agenda item number 20, benefits and wellness update.

Madam Chairman, if we could, I'd like to get that table put back in place. Oh, I forgot to do that.

So I was supposed to take a five-minute break to get the table back. So we're on an official five-minute break. Perfect. I cannot be trusted if I don't write it down.

Thank you. Thanks, sir.

Hey, Dominique, we're not putting those up yet, are you?

Not yet.

Oh, you have a present? Wow.

I wonder why you stayed there until 7 o'clock. I don't know. I just didn't know why.

I don't know.

Test, test.

You already signed it, don't you? Sorry.

No, no, I meant just this.

And it's way to the clerk. This one? I feel like I'm so low.

Mic check one, two, mic check one, two. Up close, right?

Oh, Dominique.

All right, I'm going to call this meeting back to order. I am going to ask that you guys do a mic check before we start, since we asked them to do this so quickly.

Good morning, Commissioner.

Oh, look at that.

That's nice and loud.

Can you hear me? We are. We are. Fabulous job by our team. All right, I will turn this over to Christina Brandolini.

Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners. Christina Brandolini, Human Resources Director. And we are here this morning with our 2027 benefit update. And I will be joined this morning by Charles Cook from Alliant and Tim Jecks. This is a bring back. Some of it is a bring back from April when we were here before you. So this morning we are going to, Tim is going to start us off with the health insurance forecast. We will discuss some plan design changes, proposed employee contributions for plan year 2027, pharmacy benefits manager, the medical carrier and partner alternatives, and then we will turn it over for discussion and direction. So I will turn it over to Tim to start us off.

Good morning, commissioners. I'm Tim Jex with the Office of Management and Budget. The county has a dedicated fund to manage all health insurance activities. The fiscal 27 column is based on the proposed budget. The first line under revenues shows county paid premiums, the second line shows BCC employee paid premiums, and the third line shows premiums paid by our constitutional officers. The FY27 budget is based on an average increase of 12% for all premium lines. Moving down to expenditures, you can see the first row under claims. We had a large increase in fiscal 24 from $23 to $28 million. Since then, the increase has been more normalized. The total reserves for fiscal 27 are projected to be $11 million based on this forecast. The expenditure lines do not include any savings from plan design changes that will be discussed in the upcoming slides. If I can freeze my presentation.

Dominique, which button advances? Okay, we made some plan changes last year, and this is a summary of what we made for 2026. Line one is around coinsurance, which after the deductible is the part that the employees pay 20%, the plan pays 90 or 80, and we normalize that to 80%, which is norm. We adjusted the copays so that they would be logical in that the buy-up plan has the lowest copay, the mid plan has a higher copay, and then the low plan has the highest. We adjusted the emergency room copay to $300, and we increased the out-of-pocket. and the primary care from 15 to 20 on the buy-up plan. So this normalized a lot of the plans, and we made the adjustment highlighted in yellow simply to be at the IRS required minimum deductible for an HSA eligible plan. What happened, we had those plan changes and we had contribution changes. Now we didn't want to have a contribution change that had people move from the plan with the most costs without sharing contributions. So the contribution adjustments guided people to the lower cost plans and you see that we had significant reduction in enrollment in the buy-up plan and the mid-plan and then into the low and high deductible health plan. So that was a good thing. That was what we had hoped to achieve. As we continue to look at the challenges in the market, you are not alone in your costs having gone up. We have seen over the last two and a half years a significant spike in claims across the board. I wish there were a perfect study to show that. I will say a year and a half ago when I met with you each individually, We were looking at the largest number of high dollar cancer claims that we've seen ever in your plan. And the number of those has gone down. We still have some high claimants. So we still have a budgetary challenge. If you go to the next slide. The plan changes that we're proposing to make are to continue to normalize to general market norms in terms of the deductibles. And the deductibles, you can see on the last line, but not in yellow, we are raising the deductible on the buyout plan from 250 to 500. This will leave me in my entire book of business with nobody with $250 deductible. That's kind of a thing of the past. And then $500,000 to $1,000 on the mid-plan, $1,000 to $1,500 on the low plan, small change in deductible per IRS in the HSA plan, and then those amounts will apply to the out-of-pocket and to the family. So these are relatively incremental. When I show you the plan design, the impact of the cost, We ran it several different ways to be as conservative as possible in what the projected savings would be. But you are, in some instances, doubling the deductible and adding a lot to the out of pocket. After that, this is the contributions. And you have these in front of you. We have talked about them in the briefing. There is an overall general increase of around 12%, overall general increase. This is BCC only. This does not include the constitutionals. This is just the structure for BCC. You will see that the increases are higher on the employee spouse and on the employee family tiers. This is part of a general philosophy that we're seeing. We need to take care of our employees. We're not going to boot off the spouses and family members. But they are a big share of the cost, as we'll show you on the next slide. This is one report looking at one period. And you can see the base means the last 12 months, 2025. The base means 2024, current 2025. And you can see to the right the norm that we are above the norm in all categories. And this norm is against similar employers. I think one of the outliers is you It's in governmental groups that will have retirees. You have a lot of retirees. You have a lot of older population, pre-'65, and so forth. So you're above the norm. So that middle one about the employee spouse is kind of what drove the higher increase in contribution on that tier. Making all those changes, and this is just a high-level summary of the changes that I showed you before, will result in fiscal year 2020, or not fiscal year, calendar year, that's your plan year, 2027, 1.372 in projected claim savings. So Tim's numbers that started here, we have now reduced it by 1.372. 372 is our estimate. Again, that I believe is a conservative estimate using two different models. And then pharmacy. Now, Cygnus here, so I can't say the word whack-a-mole as I did before, so I won't. Pharmacy is evolving significantly and rapidly with a march towards full transparency, which would mean that you have a known admin fee for either script or member, and then you pay what it costs, and you get the full rebate if there is a rebate. And we never want to chase rebates by buying higher cost drugs, but we want to maximize what we get. So in the arrangement, you're in the second year of a three-year arrangement with Cigna. And last year, we did a PBM RFP and looked at... A number of options, one of them was not Prime. Prime is the only non-Big Three PBM that Cigna will integrate with. Integration means that all of the things that happen in pharmacy accumulate towards your deductible in a pocket and medical management integration and that type of thing. Prime is unique. Prime also does something called patient assistance. You all may or may not be familiar with coupons for high-cost drugs. That's already in place. But there's an extra step where members that might be eligible for assistance on very high cost drugs. That could be governmental assistance, foundation assistance, manufacturer assistance. And there's an option for international sourcing. So building all of that in and asking Cigna for a revision on their program, Cigna proposed what's called their acquisition cost plus model. It has a target drug spend with $250,000 at risk on Cigna's part for failure to meet that target. And that would reduce, relative to what we were looking at in 2027, a reduction of $852,000. from a pricing standpoint, without the patient assistance or international sourcing, was $860,000. So very, very close. If we said that all the people, of which there are 77 in total for patient assistance and manufacturer assistance and international sourcing, were to get the maximum amount of money that they might be eligible for, that would be $1.5 million compared to the 852. Now, through Prime and their historical evaluation of what they get, in concert with our pharmacy team at Alliant, we projected that range of that max savings would be between 872 and 1,077,000. This is the result. And while it's unusual to reevaluate some of these items every year, pharmacy is something that literally is changing so fast, the rebates are changing so fast, that this was, I think, a very good exercise that will result, at a minimum, of $852,000 reduction. The next slide, another thing that's happened in the market, and I will use this. This is not humor. It's interesting today that one of the honorees is Matt Davies, who came down for a picture. I'm a little emotional, actually. Matt was literally a visionary leader in United's growth in this market 30 years ago. So I'm very proud to have learned under him and worked with him. He's gone. But anyway, in our market, it's always changing, which makes it not boring. So in this market, United and Cigna, I would say, have owned the public sector absent Orlando Utilities Commission for a long time. Orlando Aetna has a partnership with Orlando Health. And they have something called an accountable care organization, which involves risk share and savings. And it's a smaller network than Aetna's big network. This is not new. It's been around for a while. But Aetna has won the business of the city of Orlando for 2027. That led us to see, what does that look like now for us? Not in an RFP, but what does this look like? And Commissioner Lockhart asked about disruption, what it would mean to employees. If you went from Cigna to Aetna, big network, 99.7% overlap. That's the same. With that, you would say, we'll offer the big network, and what if we offered the ACO? In the ACO, the overlap of doctors is less than 50%. Aetna has been very direct with us because of the way the reporting is done, not to overstate this number, but that's what it would be. So I looked and said, OK, what's the impact here? And the bottom part shows the last two years of spend at Advent versus Orlando Health, just to give you an idea about where your people go. Now understand, there's more to be researched about the actual cost of care at Orlando Health versus Advent. One or the other may inflate the number. But this is where you are now. On the next slide, I wanted to share that also something not new to the market is Cigna's not accountable care organization. It's called an integrated care. It's a different model, but it is a subset of the doctors in the Cigna network, and it is a partnership with Advent. So you have two things going on here. And I wanted in big picture, in big picture terms, for those employees that went to the Orlando Health ACO, there's roughly a 14% cost savings in that part. That's about the same in Cigna around Advent. And then both... or potentially would offer an additional facilities discount for those people in the larger network. So you're not forcing everybody to either of the small networks. There's an advantage to offering the ACO or Sure-Fit in either scenario. And you would have additional savings there. That is something that we will continue to monitor and model. This, I think, was a good exercise to understand the state of the market now, not specifically going through an RFP now, but to give you this information. And I think there's more to be learned. There's a New Orlando Health Hospital in your footprint, if you will. So I think there's more to learn, but we wanted to share this with you. So it comes down to the two different overall projections. The plan design changes 1.372. And then we have the estimated pharmacy savings using the $852,000 from Cigna on their revised acquisition cost plus. And 1.1 with prime, assuming a 50% success rate, if you will, on the patient assistance international sourcing. That brings us to the staff recommendations. And Christina, would you like me to, or you?

I'm happy to do it.

Okay.

So at this time, we are recommending that the board approve the plan design changes for plan year 2027, which includes the deductible and out-of-pocket. We are also recommending the approval of the proposed monthly employee contributions for 2027. approving moving the pharmacy to the Cigna Acquisition Cost Plus as the pharmacy benefit manager for plan year 2027, and then approving for staff and Alliant to initiate an RFP for plan year 2028 while we continue to monitor those emerging trends such as the narrow networks. We're happy to answer any questions.

County Manager, anything to add?

No, ma'am.

Commissioners, I'm going to defer to you all to tell me where you want me speaking on this, beginning or end. Commissioner Lockhart.

During my briefing, we talked about all of these topics very much in depth. And one of the questions that I had was, can we get to some of these savings and see potential innovation or changes without going to RFP? Is going to RFP the only solution for some of the changes that you're talking about potentially?

I don't think it's the only solution. For long-term self-funded clients, we can give you a market norm on admin fees, which is going to be pretty similar, if you will. We could do in-depth analysis on claims and repricing to the extent that the reports we get will allow us to, and model what it would look like under different scenarios. We haven't talked about United or Florida Blue, which are the other big players in what they are doing. United has a... a version of a narrow network partnered with Advent. Florida Blue has always had their HMO, which is still unique in this market, as a smaller network, albeit a big network. I could give you a lot of information and evaluation without an RFP to make that decision.

I think, just to be sure, I agree with every one of the bullets and support all of the staff recommendations. This is the only one where I hesitate a little bit because I know what going out to RFP means. I mean, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of time for our team. It's a lot of time and money for all of the responders. And without a real... specific reason why we want to jump ship. I'm just not sure if we can, if we can gain some of the efficiencies and some of the things that we're looking for and tap into some of the newer options that may be available without doing that, that would be my preference. But I'm one of five, so.

Commissioner Zimbala.

In the last briefing, or the last hearing we had regarding this, that we gave direction, I'm still in the same place. As an employer myself, there is some benefit to not disrupting the entire program for our workforce. Anytime you change providers, that's always a rough road and somewhat of a thing for people to get accustomed to and so forth. So I'm okay with all the staff recommendations, albeit I would like us to focus and study this as we move towards that deadline and then maybe have a discussion with Cigna at that point what it looks like in the marketplace and whether it makes sense for us to change providers or not. So I think that's sort of along the same line as Commissioner Lockhart's asking, just in a little different fashion. But for those reasons, I would very much like us to monitor that, give us a report prior to going to an RFP, maybe some discussions with the current provider and see where we're at.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I agree with my other commissioners as well. Charles, as well as Christine, I think your recommendations are spot on. I would like to see some additional information from those other carriers you just spoke about. I think since the market keeps on changing, And I know it changes rather fast, so it would be nice to know what those other providers are doing with the market changes so we can actually understand that. One thing we haven't talked about yet, but I know that it's going to happen in the future, is the overall wellness program. I think there needs to be some additional conversations on that because a healthy group, you have less spend, obviously. And I know that is something that we've worked pretty hard with in the past, and it's really helped us. And I'd like to know what that wellness program, what our existing wellness program is and what it could be if there's any changes that should be done and when that would be addressed. But I'd like to see what those other carriers are looking at so that we can better understand is it beneficial to go to market or not.

All right, I will wrap this up. I want to go to slide 12, because I think this is the, and it's page 12 in your handout. This slide, and Charles and I have had this discussion And by the way, I should start by saying no one appreciates the immense amount of work that you've gone through to get it to this point and reducing it to this many slides better than I do. Thank you. So very, very well done. But this slide is a little bit confusing if you're not in this business, and that is that this makes it look like the discount advantage is the same, but it's based on discount off of the underlying deal. If the underlying deal for Orlando Health is better than the underlying deal that Advent or vice versa, then the starting point isn't the same. And so one of the challenges that we're all having in this marketplace is that when you move to an ACO, The disruption, and by the way, it is a choice. So you would disrupt yourself if you want to go into the narrow network. It's a choice by all employees. Everyone would still have access to the broader network and the Aetna network and the United network and the Cigna network are all within a percentage of a percentage point away from each other. It doesn't matter if it's your doctor, but we move these plans back and forth fairly regularly. But what you don't want to do is start within an ACO, and I'll just call it out, with an existing carrier, and then have to migrate the ACO to a lower-cost ACO later. Because that's 100% disruption in this marketplace today. So for those of you that are old enough, and Charles and I are, Think back to Prudential and Cigna a million years ago, and you either went to their doctors or their doctors and they didn't overlap. And then United came in and we bled them all together and blew all of that up. It's going back to the way it was. So the reason why I think we really do need to see what the market bears is because we don't want to do this twice. We really can only do it once. I would tell you that from my perspective, and I know I'll just prepare Steven for the statement that I'm about to make, but he's heard it before. I think there is a way to thread the needle with going to market without going through a full formal RFP. By statute, you can shop benefits. You can shop health care without going through an RFP process. whether or not that's in our code or not, but that does streamline the entire process, and quite frankly, it gives the consultant the ability to get real, better information because the conversations can happen ongoing. Still a deadline, still a hard finish, still all the stuff, and you can manage that however you want to manage that. I think that's how we accomplish this goal. I think it starts with the medical side from a timeline perspective. It starts with the medical side and focusing on which deal is better. And then it moves to the pharmacy side because Aetna does allow more PDMs to connect than Cigna does. Cigna may migrate that over time. And I'm going to have a shout out to the Cigna team who's been a wonderful partner here. We have Beth and Janice here in the audience. Thank you for being here. They step up every time we ask them to step up. The market is just where the market is. So I think the recommendations are good. I think that we need to explore whether or not we can do this without the formal RFP process because I think we will have a better outcome and we will be better informed. The reason that I am pretty firm on this action is because there is now data available in the marketplace because of the transparency acts that were passed by the federal government in recent years. So now all of the carriers have to provide the employers who are offering plans on a self-funded basis access to a link to the machine-readable files, the MRFs, so that every hospital deal on every network, every network deal on every program that they have is public information. We are now, and Charles is now, able to ingest that data through data analytics platforms and measure them against each other. So I do have reason to believe that there's a discount differential in this marketplace that is costing us taxpayer money. Could it change within the next year? Yes, but we have to look at it from my perspective. So, I mean, I think the... The motion, the way they put it, is really good. I do want to get a couple of other things on the record. That as we migrate people to the lower plans, we lose revenue into the plan, and we cannot lose track of that. And I know Charles hasn't, but we need to not lose track of that. When we file the 1-1208, which is the required filing with the Office of Insurance Regulation, we should be filing it so that we're not showing a deficit if there is no deficit. This document shows a deficit, but then we subtract from the deficit. And I've asked that we make sure that whatever we have to do to adjust that to make sure that it's the real number that gets filed so that we're filing even. I would also tell you that running down a reserve is a whole heck of a lot easier than building up a reserve. We've all been in that role before, and we do not want to run this reserve down to the point where it becomes difficult. It takes us too long to make decisions. I have had a very wise board in the past of one of my clients implement a 180-day reserve policy. And that was a wise thing, and it was a little bit conservative, but not wildly conservative. The state monitors for a 60-day reserve. That is for fiscal solvency. That is not for a healthy plan. And so we can't be anywhere near there. I just wanted to get that on the record. Okay. It's on the document.

114 days, something? The current fiscal 26 budget is just under 140 days. Yeah.

And next year's budget, we are thinking, stays flat, but more than likely goes down, because we're anticipating the savings and benefit changes, which is always a challenge. Always a challenge. I do believe that we need to consider whether or not if spouses are eligible for coverage through another employer that they take that and not ours. So that should be for next year's consideration as we're doing this. I do also think we should be doing Medicare education. Anywhere we can do it, because we have folks that are staying on our plan beyond their Medicare years and really costing themselves money, quite honestly. And education needs to happen for 100% of our employee population, because we never know when anybody can go into Medicare. And it does help people plan for the future. I would also like to throw out there that there is out in the public venue the potential for the removal of rebates. Cigna is proposing removal of rebates over the long term. I realize that it's not happening draconianly. I realize that it's phasing in. But there are articles out there already where they are talking about the removal of rebates. and the rebated amount would go to point of service to the discount at the drugstore when you pick up the drug. We have a significant amount of funding sitting in rebates, so we would need to figure out how to feather that in, or employee contributions have to change. There's only two choices. So just be aware that that's another market dynamic that's changing, that's arching over this, and there are dates out there for that, 27, 28, roll in, And I wouldn't be surprised if there's other places that do that because of the tremendous amount of pressure that the Trump administration is putting on the market, which is great pressure. I support the pressure. So with that, I will look to a motion. Madam Chair. More discussion. There was an out.

Yeah. Well, we hadn't weighed in yet, but I'm prepared to make a motion.

As was I. Go for it. So, you know, I just wanted to say, in talking with the staff over this, I, as all of you have already said, support the staff recommendations. I think they really took a very hard and in-depth look at it. But I also heard what you, Madam Chair, and other commissioners said. So I would move the recommendation with The fourth bullet saying instead of approve staff to initiate, approve staff to investigate initiating an RFP plan for 2028.

Investigate initiating.

Yes, that's fine.

So you're approving all of those top three with the caveat of the fourth one changing.

You're investigating. And what happens after they investigate it?

Can we report back to us? Would that be a friendly amendment? Yes. Well, that was the intent. I'm sorry, but yes. Then I'll second that.

And for clarification purposes, this investigation, you're going to be telling us other plan and other providers, correct? That's what I'm assuming.

So it's not agreed to go to a full bond. I didn't say that. No, I'm sorry. I was just...

And I think that is the wise move, if that's going to be the flavor of the board. I mean, frankly, in today's marketplace with what's going on in the hospital systems, what's going on in the political realms with Trump putting pressure upon the system, there's a whole lot of things that could change between now and then. I mean, a lot of things dramatically could change. So I will absolutely support that coming back to us for further review.

Commissioner Lockhart, anything to add? No. So I would add to it that that, If I was sitting in your shoes, I'd be concerned about what does that really mean. So I'm going to try to clarify it.

May I weigh in?

Yes.

I think I hear you all. And I think we can do an evaluation and understand the lay of the land in the market. In an RFP, we take it as seriously as you do. And there's always a time when you learn things you didn't know, FYI. But I would like to get this information back to you and have a decision so that it can be ready to go in January. There's a procurement. There's a process. Now, if we can do, as Commissioner Hurst said, different than procurement, that tightens the window a little bit. And I think that's good. Potentially, I see pros and cons to that. I see more pros. But we'll have to see if that's possible. But we can't be behind the eight ball. Four years ago, we started in January. The decision was made June 3 or something, which was later than I would have preferred. But that's just my logistical way in.

Thank you.

Commissioner Zimbala.

Charles, thank you very much for that. I don't disagree. I think that we need to explore all possibilities, including piggybacking on an RFP that's already out there as part of our review process that another government agency or entity has already utilized. I think that's imperative that we look at that. That may be very helpful.

Do you have enough direction?

I interrupted you, so do you want to finish?

Yeah. So I think there's analysis, and then there's reality. And bringing back analysis that all we've done is kick this can down the road in the decision as to whether or not we want to go to market, because whatever analysis you bring back isn't going to be any clearer than what we already know today. That's my perspective. I do think we need to be ready to pull the trigger ongoing. But I'm going to tell you that whatever he brings back is going to be theoretical if it's an analysis that doesn't include quotes. including stop loss, discounts, all that stuff.

The discounts and all of that are the critical underlying opponent. Stop loss is carved out now. We've been good with Sun Life. That was something we used to be able to have done by August. Those days are over, and I won't go into it on the stop loss market, but that's there too. I think we will be ready, but we would need you to say go by early January.

And so when do you think you can bring the analysis back by? We're sitting in July.

Yeah. I would love November.

November it is. Or first meeting in December. November's dicey with holiday, right? We have one meeting in November.

Can we end it?

It would need to be October. I would prefer then October.

I'm concerned about December. December's too late. If we could work out October. I'll put on November. November it is.

November or sooner as you're ready. Yes. All right. Commissioners, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Hearing none, it passes unanimously. Thank you for all the work you've done. Thank you to the Cigna team for being good partners. We appreciate you. You know I'm going to read that pharmacy contract 17 times, so be prepared for the phone calls.

May I say one thing? I'm sorry, just to your point, hopefully our employees saw in the newsletter, but this Thursday we do have our financial expo, and Medicare and Social Security will be there all day. They will be doing two presentations, and they'll be there all day to answer questions.

Awesome. Thank you, Christina. Christina, I did not thank you for all your hard work and all the things that you've done. Very well done. We appreciate you and your entire team.

Oh, did we do a public comment? Sorry.

Would you like to make a comment?

No, I said we have public comment. Sorry. Oh, I'm sorry.

It was a public comment. Oh, thank you. I think Dominique is absolutely teed up to hunt me down and wrestle me to the ground if there's ever public comment. Yeah. I do love that topic a little more than the average bear, though. All right, well, this is exciting stuff, I can tell. What we need is the veterans back cheering for the budget session. Yay, budget session number four. We have Tim Jecks here. Tim, I'll turn it over to you.

And before Mr. Jecks gets started, Chairman, I'll go ahead and just have a few opening comments. So good morning, Chairman and Commissioners, those of the public who joined us today. Today's budget work session begins an important conversation about potential impacts of the proposed property tax amendment on Seminole County government. Whether this amendment is ultimately approved or rejected will be decided by Florida voters in November, this November. Our responsibility is not to advocate for or against the decision. Our responsibility is to understand what the proposal would mean for county government, prepare for the possibility that if it passes, ensure that this board has the information necessary to make informed public policy decisions. Today's presentation is intended to provide that foundation. We'll review what is actually on the ballot. We'll clear up some common misconceptions, explain how county government is funded through property taxes, and discuss the potential impacts to Seminole County if the amendment is approved. One message I want to emphasize from the outset of any potential impacts would be it will not be isolated to one department or one area of government. This proposal would affect one of the county's primary revenue sources, meaning every property tax supported function of county government would need to be evaluated. As you'll see throughout today's presentation, reductions of this magnitude cannot be absorbed by a single department or a single service area. They would require shared sacrifices across county government, including public safety. Today's work session is intended to frame that broader conversation. Beginning in August, the board will hear directly from departments and constitutional offices about specific services they provide, the potential impacts to those services, and the options available to respond if voters approve the amendment. So with that, Chairman, I'd like to turn it back over to our budget director, Tim Jecks, and he'll walk us through this presentation. We also have our property appraiser, Mr. David Johnson, here. I told him he didn't have to make a presentation. We just heard from him a couple months ago, but he is available to answer any questions that the board has as well.

Thank you, Mr. County Manager. In November, the voters will consider constitutional amendment number three, titled Save Our Homes from Excessive Property Taxes. There are two primary changes to this amendment. First, a bigger exemption for homesteaded properties.

Dan, pull that mic, will you? Sorry.

That will take us from the current $50,000 exemption up to $150,000 next year and $250,000 in 2028 and beyond. Also on the ballot is a reduction in the annual growth cap for non-homesteaded properties from 10% down to 5%. There were initial discussions when this amendment was proposed, indicating that there would be a state trust fund to offset reductions in property taxes. This did not make it onto the final amendment. Public safety budgets are not protected from the proposed amendment and can be reduced if voters approve a tax cut in revenues. Final, there's limited savings from the change in non-homesteaded properties. When we look at the total impact of the amendment to taxpayers, 97% is related to the homesteaded properties and 3% is to commercial and other non-homesteaded properties. If we focus on the $250,000 exemption, This does not apply to non-homesetted properties, that's renters, businesses, and people with second homes. It also does not apply to school board millage, non-advalorum assessments like MSBUs, trash pickup, water sewer bills, fire assessments, or stormwater assessments. The last two are not currently levied by the Board of County Commissioners. Finally, you'll still pay taxes on assessed values over 250,000, so property owners will still have a bill for schools, fees, and other services. The homestead exemption does apply to the countywide general fund, our fire rescue EMS fund, our roads fund, the St. Johns River Water Management District, and all city millages. This chart shows the makeup of the total 181,000 parcels in Seminole County. 40% are non-homesteaded and would receive no savings from the additional exemption. 32% are homesteaded with a current assessed value under $250,000, meaning they would receive a partial benefit from the increased exemption. And finally, 28% are homesteaded with an assessed value over $250,000. These properties will receive the full benefit of the increased exemption. Taxpayers should understand where they fall in this chart when using online calculators to figure out how much they will save. Now we'll move on to the impact to Seminole County revenues. The county is projected to collect $426 million in property tax revenues in fiscal 27. 72% is spent on public safety, and this reform will cut ad valorem revenues by 27%, which is a reduction of $119 million. So we have $426 million collected, $119 million reduced. Of this reduction, $116 million comes from the increased homestead exemption, and $3 million comes from the reduced cap for non-homesteaded properties. This chart shows the revenues to the general fund, fire fund, and roads fund. The first line shows ad valorem property tax revenues totaling the $426 million. Next line shows the reduction at the $250,000 exemption level. The property appraiser estimates an $85 million reduction in the general fund, $33 million reduction in the fire fund, and $1 million reduction in the roads fund. This is approximately totaling 27% of our revenues. The final row in bold shows the net impact of the total revenues in each fund. This reform will have the greatest impact on fire services because that fund relies on the highest percentage of property tax revenues. We have balanced budgets in all three funds, so this final row of percentages will provide the framework for necessary service reductions. This chart combines the three ad valorem funds to show where your property tax dollars are allocated. 72% goes towards public safety activities, including law enforcement, corrections, fire, EMS, and dispatch. 11% goes to fund transportation. 5% to county parks, libraries, natural lands, and trails. 3% is for BCC general government activities, 3% funds our constitutional officers, 1% goes to community services, and 5% is allocated to unfunded state mandates. These are the same budgets in pie chart format. The center pies shows the impact of the 20% reduction to net fund revenues. This impact is greater than the total amount paid from the ad valorem funds for community services, the constitutional officers, county administration, natural lands and trails, libraries, parks, sun rail, micro transit links, and one third of the public works road and bridge budget. It is not realistic to assume that these budgets can be reduced to zero.

Go back real quick, Tim. And I don't want to interrupt you too much, but I think this is probably one of the best slides of the whole presentation. And this really shows that if you don't do anything to public safety and leave them whole, that whole red area, the cone red area, that's the 20% revenue impact. Look, it eliminates those areas in red. So it eliminates links, the scout, microtransit, sun rail, parks, libraries, natural lands, trails, county administration functions, constitutional offices, again, that we're required to fund by the state, and community services, all the not-for-profit groups that we partner with. We just wanted to show you what that impact actually does if you don't do anything to public safety. So a reason why I said in the beginning that it's going to have to, we're going to have to look at all services that the county funds if this amendment gets approved. Thank you.

This chart shows the budget impact if the reductions were spread evenly across all programs. So public safety would be a $74 million reduction, transportation $9 million reduction, recreation $6 million reduction, human services $1 million, and general government $7 million. The public safety percentage is higher due to the greater projected revenue cut in our fire fund. First, we have our sheriff's budget. This is the largest line item in our ad valorem funds. Corrections is an unfunded countywide state mandate. The total budget is $202 million. A 20% reduction would be approximately $40 million. Next is the county's fire department. This service has a dedicated fund. All activities in the fire fund are for fire rescue public safety services. The majority of this budget pays for personnel. A 23% reduction in revenues would equate to approximately $31 million. The fire department provides fire response services, ambulance EMS, emergency 911 dispatch, community paramedicine, and community outreach. Our final public safety budget is for emergency management and animal control. The total budget is $9.9 million. The 20% reduction equates to $2 million. Emergency management services include maintaining the public safety radio telecommunication system and towers, hazard planning for emergencies, coordinating response during emergencies, including managing our EOC, recovery coordination, mitigation efforts to minimize damage in future emergencies, animal control dispatch and field service, and running the countywide animal shelter. Moving to transportation, the county spends $46 million from our ad valorem funds on Lynx buses, Sunrail, Scout, Microtransit Service, and the Public Works Road and Bridge Department. A 20% reduction would be $9.3 million. Public Works maintains 2,700 roadways, 419 traffic signals, 32,000 traffic signs. They maintain the county stormwater system, which prevents localized flooding. They maintain our bridges and manage construction of our transportation infrastructure. Next, we have budgets for parks and recreation services, totaling $29.6 million. A 20% reduction equates to $5.9 million. Parks Department manages 7,700 acres of natural lands and passive parks. They run the county's six regional active parks and sports facilities. They manage five library branches, the Ed Yarborough Nature Center, the county museum, extension services, and a combined 136 miles of trails. Community services budgets make up just over 1% of our property taxes at $6.6 million. 20% reduction equates to $1.3 million. Services include low-income assistance, childcare, and after-school programming, providing meals for at-risk seniors, support of the county's homeless shelter, attainable housing initiatives, support for nonprofit agencies like Rescue Outreach Mission, Kids House, Safe House, and the Boys and Girls Club. Next are general government budgets paid from the county's property taxes, totaling $35 million. The 20% reduction equates to $7 million. General government services include long-range planning, growth management, land development, our fleet and facilities department, administrative and fiscal oversight, county administration, including budgets for the board, county manager, county attorney, human resources, information technology, and the Office of Management and Budget, as well as constitutional officers, the supervisor of elections, clerk, and property appraiser. My final slide shows unfunded mandate budgets paid from property taxes. This list does not include the jail or emergency management, which were presented under public safety. The tax collector's budget is based on a percentage of ad valorem revenues collected, so this reform would result in a reduction in his funding. Based on Florida statutes, county boards have more limited authority to reduce the budgets for the courts, health department, Medicaid, veteran services, water quality, and FRS.

Thanks, Tim. And for our next steps, Chairman and Commissioners, what we were looking at. Next, based on our conversations today, I've already put together a meeting with our leadership team, all of our directors and division managers. That's probably close to 70 of us. We're going to be going off-site, looking at the impacts to Amendment 3 here with the property tax amendment, looking at possible reductions, Other efficiencies, you know, we're continuing to look at that through our similar moments program anyway, so we will incorporate that into that discussion as well. Our communications team is launching a public information resource. One of the things that we are allowed to do is provide facts to the public, so we want to make sure that the residents and business owners can get our website and look at the facts regarding this amendment and the impacts. Of course, we'll have a frequently asked questions, brochures, videos, presentation materials. The Florida Association of Counties has also, as you all have, submitted that to our offices as well, so we'll make sure that's available for the public. What I'd like to do with the board's direction is to come back in late August and first of September and bring those impacted property tax departments and services back to the board. And that's including our fire department, the sheriff's office, emergency management, parks and recreation, public works, community services, and our elections office. So within two meetings, I would like to have all those go back. What we showed you today was across the board impacts. If we just did For instance, a 20% reduction across the board. However, we know that one size does not fit all and that we will be working on the board's priorities if this does move forward. So what I would like to do is have those constitutional offices like the sheriff, supervised elections, as well as our departments tell you what type of impact that would do to their operation. And then of course, not with the property tax discussion, but we have our annual budget adoption in September the 15th and the 22nd for the budget year starting October 1. And then we'll roll back up into the election day on November 3rd to see if the property tax amendment is approved or not. And based on that, we'll come back to the board for future direction.

I just want to clarify something before we move on. Commissioner Zimbabwe, I'll be there in a minute. You mentioned other constitutionals, but they're not on the document unless I'm missing it.

No, we'll include all. The property tax, yes, all the constitutionals. All the constitutionals. Yes, we missed the clerk.

The sheriff's office is mentioned, but the others aren't.

Yeah, elections office is there, but we missed the clerk. We'll make sure all of them are included that receive property tax dollars.

Okay. Commissioner Zimbala.

Thank you very much. Just some direction I would like to be considered and also a statement. The State Revenue Estimating Conference has read through this at the direction of the legislatures. Of course, they moved forward with the proposal before their estimate came out. Their estimate indicates that... The impact to counties will be at least a quarter of the revenue. They also estimate, because of the other things that will stay in place with the caps on the increases, that what's going to occur is the market's going to outpace the increased taxation capabilities and values. And so, therefore, it will cut deeper into law enforcement, and fire protection. And if it continues, there's no way to get ahead of that. So I would like, when you all come back, at least for me, to look at that inflationary impacts over the next five such years so we understand what that looks like and so our constitutionals are fully aware that at least on the surface this report looks like it's definitely going to impact fire and law enforcement. But it's not lost on me, and I'm sure it's not lost on my fellow commissioners, as we see our comrades in Tallahassee brag about how much money they have and how they've paid down the debt and so forth. And I sort of sit there and chuckle often when I see these reports and go, yeah, because you shifted the burden to the locals. And that's exactly what has happened with a lot of these mandates. And a lot of those costs now that were born at the state level have actually trickled down to the local level. So I think it's important that our citizens clearly understand that, and I think it's wise for us to identify those, and I know staff has already identified those to a certain extent, but to actually put the bright lights on it and let's have a reality check and a real discussion of what's happened there. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Any other comments? Commissioner DeLaurie?

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, thank you for the presentation, county manager and staff. I think you've done a very nice job. I like the pie chart that you have with property tax funding services and the – let's keep on going. There it is. I think that really shows quite a bit of an impact. But I'd like to understand, because you hear that there's a lot of different online calculators out there. There's a couple of them that may have some issues. I'd like to know if it's possible to tell us which ones are calculating it correctly so that we can direct people to the right website or the right calculator. And with that, I'd like to actually have, when you bring this back, statutorily, what services are required to provide statutorily, including the unfunded mandates? And then with that, I know that Moody's and Standard & Poor's have talked about and issued some papers on the bond ratings and what would happen. I'd like to make sure that everyone is aware of that as well instead of not just in an email box.

That does need to be out on the public record, yes.

I've had conversations about that, and people are like, I've never seen that. And so I just want to make sure that that's public information.

I think Mr. Johnson might have an answer for you.

Commissioner Dilary, let me answer your question about online calculators right now. There is not one that is accurate. And that's the reason why I'm asking the question. So let's start with that. The calculator that a lot of folks gravitated to literally the day the legislature started meeting to put this proposal out there was a calculator designed I think in the governor's office, at some level, based on his plan, which has very little semblance to what we ended up with. There is some, but not totally. So that calculator that's out there, when you punch in your address, and I did not check it this morning, but I guarantee you it's probably still up. and it shows that you owe zero taxes, if you're under $250,000, is just wrong. Because it assumed there was not going to be a school tax, and it assumed a lot of things. It also assumed that public safety would be held harmless, and there would be trust funds, and ta-da, ta-da, ta-da. None of that is true. I have been asked a number of times from my office's perspective, and you know I love a calculator as good as anybody, a spreadsheet, and if there's going to be anybody put one out there, we would do it. I will tell you why we have not done it. Because too many assumptions would have to be made that would create a false premise. I can't tell you. We've got about 8% or 9% of all the homesteaded properties in this county flip every year as far as sell, and their values get reset. I have a lot of skills. Clairvoyancy is not one of them. So I can't tell you which properties will sell and which will not. I also would have to also make the assumption that there would be no backfilling, if you will, between creating maybe a non-advalorum assessment or having to raise millages. And again, I'm not saying that will happen here, but there are 67 counties, 400 cities, 3,000 special districts in the state. No one size fits all. So from the public's perspective, there is no calculator that will give them an accurate number at this point. And I'm not sure how we get to one. to be honest with you. And I'm not being snarky when I'm answering the question. I'm just trying to tell you there's not one out there.

And David, I'm not taking it that you're being snarky. You're being transparent. I get that. And the reason I'm asking the question is because I want to be transparent. And if there isn't one available, I just want it to be noted that there's these issues you just pointed out. Right. Tell us what those issues are, document it, and we'll move on. And that's the point I'm trying to get to for full transparency. And I appreciate not only your passion but your transparency.

And I think the trick is education is the key here. And as the county manager indicated, we have to be very careful. Currently on our website, on the front page, is a frequently asked questions category to try to dispel some of these myths that are out there. And then obviously just a very clear graphic about what the amendment does. So we look forward to working with your communications staff about that.

And that's the main purpose of me asking the question the way I did, as well as what we are required statutorily to provide. Because people assume that there are certain things we have to provide, and that may be true, it may not be true. And I just wanted to know from your perspective, with the research, what are we required to provide? Right.

Got it. I think there's the notion that you may be statutorily required to provide it, but you're also statutorily required not to deficit spend. And so those two may be at juxtaposition, and I can tell you where I'm going to land is not deficit spending. So that's the reality. Commissioner Constantine, I think you're right.

Thank you very much. Our responsibility is to educate. And so I think the people, as I said from the very beginning, I have faith in the people that they're going to see through this, that it was haphazardly put together for political purposes. They didn't do the analysis before they did it. The best thing that could probably happen is that the people find wisdom in rejecting this. And then we've got a tax commission next year. And looking at that and doing it reasonably in a way that will protect all the counties and their independence. will protect services, vital services, will protect police and fire, and honestly, will protect the property values by maintaining a quality of life. I mean, people don't believe that this is really, those that are supportive of it. I have heard so many people, well, you'll fund it anyway. And you don't have the guts to eliminate parks and libraries. Well, the reality is we will have no choice. It's not a question of whether we're going to pull the trigger. It's a question of whether we just don't have the funds and we cannot deficit spend. And what they're also missing is how much it's going to cost them when you have to borrow money and how much it's going to cost them without services, vital services, and therefore people not wanting to move here, how their property values will be going down. Thank you for the analysis, everyone. It's something that we've all been asking for and wanting and something that every local government throughout the state is doing or should be doing. And that is, again, education. This is not stating a position. The position is obvious if you are looking at this intelligently. But this is showing, this is giving an education to the people.

Commissioner Lockhart. One of the things that I think is really helpful when we're talking about communicating just the budget, even in a normal year, let's even take out the fact that we're looking at the implementation of homestead exemption reform, property tax reform. Just a normal year communicating how our budget works to the general voting public is a challenge. It's complicated. It's not an easy thing. I was on staff here for many years and worked very closely with the Budget Office and still, after working on budgets for many years, had questions and needed clarification, and things change. And so to think that... with a postage stamp, postcard political campaign, you can accurately educate the public on how to run a local government and provide these services is really foolish. I think one of the things that we can do to better communicate the work that's done here by our staff is to stay consistent between dollar amounts and or percentages because we're switching from 420, looking at slide, I don't know, it's nine. We've got $426 million of annual property tax revenue and we see 72% of it is on public safety. And then we talk about percent of property tax reform and then a dollar amount of the reduction. And then we go to that fabulous pie chart and the pie chart doesn't have dollar amounts on it. It has percentages. So I think if we could come up with some type of communication that sticks with dollars, like in my home budget, I know what the dollars are that we're working with, and then I know the dollars that I need to cut, and then I know how much I spend in each category, and so then I know how much I need to cut in each category. Rarely do people in their home budgets talk about percents of income or outgo. So I would ask that we come up with something that sticks with dollar amounts. So I just wrote down on the slide nine, $426 million of annual property tax revenue equates to, then we have $307 million of that being spent on public safety. So if we were, and I know this is if, I know your scenario is across the board cuts. Right. But if we were to hold public safety completely harmless, that's $306,720,000 that we would not touch. Then that means that we've got the balance, which is, interestingly enough, about $119 million of cuts that we need to find somewhere else. So then if we change back over to that pie chart, and we say, here is where we need to find $119 million, what do each of those categories amount to in dollar value so that we could figure out where those cuts would be? I think you lose the public and you maybe even lose some of us when you talk about 20% revenue impact. That's just me just brainstorming up here, thinking about this from the perspective of the John Q public who genuinely wants to figure this out and really understand what the impact of their vote is going to be in November. What does it mean to them? I think that would be important. Tim, do you know what the dollar value is in the red?

Sure. Yeah, this pie chart's built on dollars. Yes. It's built on the amount of ad valorem revenues paid for each of these services. So some of the services are split funded. They provide benefits to other funds like water and sewer. That gets a little bit tricky. But yes, these are absolute dollar amounts for each pie chart.

So can you tell me what the dollar value is of the red?

I don't have that in front of me now.

Okay. So if someone was to look at that chart and I was to say, I need to find $119 million in this chart. Tell me where you want me to cut. How would someone, a member of the public, let's say we wanted to make this a group project and we wanted to put it out there for the public to submit their suggestions. Here's the budget. Here's where all the dollars go. find $119 million of your suggestion of where you would cut, how could the public find $119 million in our budget if they wanted to give us feedback? I think that's what I'm looking for.

And the red is $119 million. Exactly.

It goes away. It is exactly $119 million. OK.

Yes.

I think somehow we need to communicate that.

And Madam Chair, if you will, and because we're required to pay for the constitutional officers, that big section of the red has to be taken out. So we have to find someplace else to take even more out. The unfunded mandates, you can't touch. The constitutional officers, you can't touch. So it's all that red and then something else that you can't even imagine what it is. Right. So the county administration, Darren, is gone.

We don't have a county manager.

I'm just showing you have all the county administration, all the community services by Allison, all the libraries, all the parks, and then we have to find even more. So pretty much, if you look at the constitutional officers and you look at the roads, bridges, and drainage, you can kind of put that one on that. So now you're getting rid of all the roads, bridges, and drainage.

I'm going to go to Commissioner Zimbauer, and then I think we have some clarity that needs to be provided on that.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like percentages and dollar figures because they're used for different functions, at least when I look at them, would be helpful. Sure.

I just want to go on the record that I think we would be asking constitutional officers to reduce their budgets along with us reducing the budget because if we're dysfunctional, they're dysfunctional.

But you can't eliminate them.

But you can't eliminate them. You can't eliminate them. Understood. But the notion that they're pulled out and we can't touch it at all was the statement, and I don't know that that's – but you can't eliminate them. All right.

Madam Chair. Just clarity. One quick question. On some of the items in the red, there are support items that have to go to either first responders or the corrections. So we also need to know what those supports that are going to go away.

Yeah. And I'll tell you, this chart, the reason I say it's so impactful is really to illustrate to the board and to the public that One, the misconception that public safety can't be touched. And that was not in the legislation that was approved and that will be on the ballot. And we know we can't do all that in the red. There's no way. that we could, you know, and keep function. Some of you can. Yeah, some of you can, but we cannot do it all. So this was just a depiction that if you wanted to keep all the public safety whole, that's the impact in the red that would have to be eliminated, which we know we can't eliminate all of that in there. And I always say that inner circle, that white, is the nucleus. And that 20%, yes, I like that comment, Commissioner Lockhart. What does that 20% represent? It's $119 million of the $400 million that we get in property tax. So it's a huge, huge impact to us.

Commissioner Zinbauer?

Sorry. To that point, and to Commissioner Delary's point, I think we're going to need to know from the county attorney specifically what are we mandated to fund, period, And I think we also need to understand when it comes to constitutionals, this provision did not impact the statutes that mandate we fund those and they come up with their own budget. So I hear what was said over here about we want our constitutionals to be feeling the pain as much as we are, but the reality is that may not be the case. Right. So I think the real answer is we need to be prepared to have a number, a dollar amount, that we take to our legislatures to ask them, this is what we're going to need to fund what statutorily we are required to fund. I think at the end of the day, that's the real answer.

Well, and the inverse of that, if there are portions of, their budgets or others, that we are not required to fund. We need to know the difference, which I know you know, which is what makes this all so complicated, the shared numbers. Because the concept of elimination versus taking a big, deep haircut are two different things. And I think the public very much understands that. It's difficult to articulate that.

So just to go back and clarify, I'm not saying don't use percents ever. I'm saying in our communication to the public, we need to be consistent with how we communicate.

I think both are valuable.

I just want to make sure we're clear that I'm not saying forget percentages. I do think it would be helpful also in the discussion about mandates. There are mandates and then there are mandates. Sunrail is one of them. Right? I mean, we have in our interlocal agreement, or LFA, I guess our local funding agreement, it specifically contemplates what happens if a local funding partner does not fund SunRail and how DOT will manage that. And it's to take it out of our work program. So we know going in that it's a mandate, but if you don't, this is what we'll do. So I think all of those evaluations need to be on the table. The other thing that just eats at me is we have these, I'm going to use air quotes, partners, like Lynx, who we all fund, but they are not required to take a reduction or make any reductions in their operations or budget. So while they are funded by local governments, they are not directly impacted by this reduction, but yet we will have significantly less dollars to fund them. So I think that needs, I think partners need, like that, organizations that we help fund like that need to be higher on the list, personally, than our other internal departments or people who are delivering direct services here in Seminole County. That would just be my hot take. The other piece of this that I think, again, goes back to how we talk about this with the public. You know, I I've had multiple, multiple conversations with people all across the political spectrum on this topic. And depending on your perspective, whatever your worldview is to begin with, you view this discussion very, very differently. And I have had people say, when I say, well, give me some specific examples of things that you would like to have cut. And they will say... cut it all. I don't use any of it. I don't go to libraries. I don't go to parks. I don't use the trails. I don't care about any of that. Cut all of that. Okay? That still doesn't get us to $119 million. What else do you want to cut? And I think that we need to recognize when we are communicating that we are communicating to a vastly diverse group of folks and their perspectives on this. For the last year, there has been a very concerted effort to drive a wedge between local elected officials and local public servants and our constituents. And that wedge has been very successfully driven, I believe, inappropriately and with misinformation. And we now have a much broader trust gap than we have ever had. And so earning that trust back against misinformation is an uphill battle to climb to begin with, which is why I keep harping on how it is that we communicate with the public. Because we're already being accused, before we even open our mouths, of being alarmist. And that when we have these conversations, all we're doing is trying to fearmonger and scare people. And this has nothing to do with scaring anyone. It's facts and it's math. And Tim does not have a garden full of money trees. We can't just find the money somewhere. And we're not spending like drunken sailors. And we're not up here all pocketing the money. If I could have a dollar for every time I've seen an accusation like that on social media, that local government is just, you know, we're all a bunch of crooks up here stealing everybody's money. These are real services to real citizens that have real needs. And I think we take very seriously the job that we have to make sure that every single dollar is spent to the benefit of the public. And this proposal is just another opportunity for us to continue to make good choices and be more transparent and continue to do the work, frankly, that we do every single year when we talk about this budget.

i'm going to jump off my soapbox but i just am very passionate about how we talk about this with the community because it's absolutely critical so i'll not jump on the soapbox but i'll i do just want to point out a couple of things the broad brush of all 67 counties is the challenge if you happen to be a county that is not necessarily as conservative as we have been with taxing and spending over the years. you are probably not nearly as pressured as we are. So for the counties that are doing things that are outside of what is considered the norm in Tallahassee, they can eliminate those and not be touching their public safety. So I just want to point out that this is actually probably having the inverse effect, but potentially a positive effect in some areas where there is overspending. I'm not sure. I do think one of the things that we have to talk about openly as we're communicating with the public is this notion that when we compare a budget to a family budget, it is a gigantic misconception. My family budget is all one big bucket. I get to pluck and play, whatever. I get to tell the kids, you're not going to college. I get to do all the stuff that you do. I have all the funds. I don't have the college fund anymore, thank goodness, but I have the college fund. I had the summer camp fund. I had the insurance fund. But I could move money freely between all of those things.

Grandchildren come, and then those college funds come back.

If you would help me get them dates, that possibility does exist. So I'm taking nominations. And so, or even to go to a bar, like that would be a good step. But I will say that a county budget is much different. The analogy that I've heard recently that is a really good one is that it's like the old school. It's an ice cube tray. And the water doesn't flow from one end to the other. And I can't make it flow from one end to the other. And in my mind, it's not a normal ice cube tray. Not that I'm an ice cube tray about drinking. Expert, however, I have some really cool little ice cube trays for when I mix a certain cocktail in the shaker that's different. Ours is like a little teeny ice cube tray, and I can't move funds from one to the other to the other to the other. So the representation that's here is an accurate representation where we are unlimited in terms of how we can move things around here. The rest of the budget is not part of this and can't be moved in or out. I think that is a gigantic misconception. I'm going to ask that we, from my perspective, what I think we've heard is that this be updated to add percentages and dollars. And I would also ask that we share this model with all of the cities because it would be super helpful. We are not the state of Florida. We are not going to impose a mandate on them. But it would be super helpful if we were all using the same type of tool. And this is the best visualization that I've seen. So if we would share it. in a form that they can plug their numbers in, that would be awesome. And I wanna go through a couple of slides here and just point out some other interesting. So if you put up the slide that's parcels impacted by the 250, the three bar charts, I just wanna point something else here that is really, I think, the opposite impact that I would think that we would want to have happen if we were gonna adjust property taxes. The people with the highest value homes are getting the best discount. That is absolutely not who we wanted to help the most. What I'd like to do is shift from that upper into the lower and help folks that are struggling with housing. And that's not people who are sitting in houses that have a homestead value of 250 grand or more. And if it is, they could slide down the housing spectrum and get to a lower price home. But this is having the opposite impact. This will have a wonderful impact on the Herr family. And it's not the right thing. It is just simply not the right thing. So another point out that I think that we all need to understand And then if I go to the last slide, I'll just point out on the steps that you outlined, I do think those are the appropriate steps. I think the communication is really important. And I'll leave us with this one last thought. And that is, David, when you're laying awake at night, I would like to plant this thought in your head. I think there is a way for us to build a calculator. Because absent of us doing it and the state leaving that one up, we continue to feed the false narrative. I think there's, you can put the caveats in there of, you know, I must agree that this is not, you know, an absolute, all the stuff that we do. But something's got to go up that shows folks that that number that they're seeing is not real. And maybe we can take the lead on that. No pressure, but let's think about that at night as we're thinking about all of these things. I don't know.

I think that's a fool's mission right there on how you can track.

I think absent of trying, we won't know.

Yeah, I mean, if you look at it, so you live in your home for 30 years. Your assessed value is X. I come in and buy the house right next to you. It's the exact same house. Tomorrow, my assessment is far different.

and when those properties turn over or no longer become homesteaded that happens on a daily basis in this county so being able to track that's going to be pretty tough so commissioners and bauer what i'm suggesting is that it's an individual calculator that i can go in and plug in my assessed value or plug in This is probably too much to ask, but plug in my address and pull the assessed value out of the system, and it populates. I'm not asking for us to assimilate all of the impact of this, just the impact to me, which is what the state's calculator is doing, and they're coming up with zeros. And that's not real. It's not the assimilation of all of it. It shouldn't feed anything else but an individual's knowledge about the impact of this on their personal situation. If they plug in the wrong assessed value amount, that's on them.

So currently on the system website that gets about 3 million hits a month, there is a calculator that obviously talks about what happens if the property sells, what happens if it continues to be maintained. That is an easy ask to move because it assumes if you punch in your address, your name, your parcel number, whatever, it's giving you a $50,000 exemption. All you do is you change that 50 to 250 or 150, and that gets you the number. I think my concern is, and certainly we have had this discussion amongst us as property appraisers and internally, and I'm not saying it's not going to happen. It probably will at some point. Because to your point, it's very frustrating that there is so much misinformation out there, especially when this thing says it's, provided by the state of Florida. I don't even know what that means, because it doesn't have the state seal or anything like that on there. And I know the Department of Revenue did not do this. So it's frustrating when it looks like it carries some level of credence. So I agree with you. I struggle with this. And we're still going to work towards that. Back to the three bar charts for a second. I think the important piece, and you hit the nail on the head, about who's going to benefit from this. So the 32% that are 250 and under, remember those are folks like Commissioner Zinbauer talked about, that have been in their home for 25, 30 years and gotten the full benefits of Save Our Homes. And yes, their market value is in the $400,000 range. And when it sells, it's going to go from that $210,000 to $400,000. And that's the phone call I get. You must have made a mistake because my realtor told me X, my taxes were going to be. Which, of course, I've been trying to empty that ocean with a teaspoon for years also. And Zillow and Realtor.com and all the apps. And by the way, the property appraisers did have that law changed this last legislative session. That does make Zillow and Realtor.com take their calculator to what it would be if it sells. Because what they were doing was just putting what the person was paying for. So that creates a little bit of an effort. So we're trying. But back to the 32%. Again, those are people that are totally benefiting from the Saver Homes. They've been in their home for a long time. And the other piece to this that we've not really talked about, there's about 2,500 to 3,000 homesteaded property owners in this county that pay no property taxes. Now, that's some of it because it's lower-valued properties, but the very, very vast majority of that 80%, 85% are folks who have a disability. They are either combat related or non-combat related. And they deserve that benefit. That's the benefit that's given to them by the state. And if we were to change this process out to maybe go to some level of non-advalor, I'm not saying that's going to happen, but guess what happens? they no longer get an exemption on the non-ad valorem piece of the equation. So then they get a tax increase. So that quadriplegic who's wheelchair bound, who's on a limited income, real stories, will end up paying some level of property taxes because if we go to some level of non-ad valorem assessments. So I'm not saying that's going to happen, but the whole story has to be told. And again, I think it's going to impact lower valued properties more than the higher value properties. You're right. We all have friends and families like, this is great. I'm going to save $1,600, $2,000 a year, depending on what city I'm in. But that, by the way, they probably don't need that. And again, that's not what the ad valorem tax system it's supposed to be. According to value, we love Latin. It's been around since the... The reason we have this system, it's a couple thousand years old. Like it or not like it. The non-advance is not based on value. That's based on the cost for the service. Again, it's To Commissioner Constantine's perspective, we have a tax and budget reform commission that meets every 20 years that will meet again in 2028. I will not sit here, and you've all heard me say to you individually and in a group setting, that there is not any kind of reform that does not need to happen to the property tax system in the state of Florida. I've done this for over 40 years. We gave the legislature multiple ideas. 95% of it was left on the cutting room floor. I'm hoping that if we can get to the Tax and Budget Reform Commission in 2028, we can do like we did in 2008, the last time they met. And we did increase the homestead exemption from 25 to 50. We did create portability. We did create a lot of good things. And so, again... I think the voters just need to understand this is probably not the best plan. It doesn't mean that we scrap everything and nothing ever comes forward again. But I think there's a more thoughtful way of doing it. And unfortunately, I'm not sure this is the best plan to do that.

Commissioner, is there anything further to add? Thank you, David, for that perspective.

Madam Chair, I could go on and on, and I think all of us could, but this is shooting at a target and missing completely the entire board.

I'll end on a more positive note. I do think it spurred conversation throughout the state, and there's probably some value to that as long as the conversation ends up being productive. So along that line, do we have any public comment?

Yes, ma'am. One speaker, Leslie Grubel.

Welcome to budget hearing number four.

Leslie Gruble, Longwood, Florida, 32779. Today, I was speaking on behalf of the League of Women Voters, which a lot of times I am not, because that requires some permissions. We had council this weekend in Orlando. Yay for Orlando. And we had over 20-some representatives of counties in our state. The League of Women Voters believes and has a mission statement that local government should have local control. That is paramount. And they believe that Amendment 3 and they support this, that it should not pass. They believe that Amendment 3 is an overreach by the state into our local control. And listening to the items here and what changes might have to be made, it is apparent that if there is some issue in our local area with the lack of funding, I can just imagine trying to go up to my representative at the state and say, hey, my street's not getting repaired. Can you fix that? And it's so crazy to think that they have our ultimate local knowledge of what needs to be done in our county. And I am behind the league 100%. And I find that our group is powerfully against this homestead exception plan. Thank you.

Thank you. We appreciate you being here and spending all morning with us.

Jeremy, can I say one thing? I was deciding if I was going to say this or not, but you started it, so I'll say it. Some of the questions I get of, you have a $1.2 billion budget. You can't find $119 million. And when you made the statement about the ice cube trays, it made me start thinking is that the state restricts us in so many of our revenue sources. that we get in. And it's probably a good thing at some point. So of the 1.2, we're talking about $400 million. Really, that affects all of our public safety. All those special revenue funds that we call that makes up the 1.2, you cannot spend on fire and police. The state restricts us. Water and sewer has to be paid for water and sewer services. Garbage pickup has to be paid for garbage pickup. Hotel tax has to be paid for tourism related stuff. I mean, it goes on and on. And when I'm out making a presentation, and governmental funding and budgeting, it's tough unless you live it like we have for the last 30 plus years. Think if you have 100 checkbooks. But this one, you can't transfer from one checkbook to the other checkbook. And this one checkbook that we have is unrestricted. We can move it around, but they're actually attacking it, and they're going to reduce that checkbook. So I appreciate you bringing that up. It is hard to explain to the layperson, the citizen out there, because they see our budget. A billion dollars is a lot of money. A million dollars is a lot of money. However, again, just the statement that, again, the state for good, bad, or whatever, is that they restrict us on what we can spend our revenue on. And so our hands are tied just going into this process. But I appreciate the dialogue. I made a lot of notes. I'm going to follow up with each of you. And we'll be prepared when we come back at the second meeting in August to start this process again. Budget work session number five.

The last thought that I'll leave you with before we adjourn for the morning is the notion that nowhere in our communication is that being said. So our starting point is the ad valorem, the ad valorem, the ad valorem, and folks know what our total budget is. It's got to enter into this dialogue in every document that we put out.

And the bond covenants as well that restrict.

Yeah.

All that. Everything. I mean, there's no question. It's popular to say government's fat and happy and spends money like drunken sailors. I think it was the second year I was here going through the budget session. I looked at everyone and said, I've run a lot of businesses, and I run some successful businesses. You guys are running this thing so daggone conservative, I'm shocked you're not out of business. Hence, 16 years with no tax increase until we absolutely had to do it. Or we'd be having similar discussions as we're having right now. What are we cutting out?

Well, and deferred maintenance that just plagues us.

Correct. Commissioner, I wasn't going to say anything more, but the analysis of the family budget was very good. The thing that the people, and I've heard my commissioner, fellow commissioners in Zimbabwe talk about business and everything. We all have to try to use certain basic tactics that business has to run government. However, the business's prime reason for existing is to make a profit for the owners and the stock owners. Government's primary responsibility is the health, safety, and welfare of all of its citizens. And 500,000 that we deal with, one sense of priority maybe a gun range. Another's sense of priority is a library. Another is having a meal that night and a place to live. And we have to help the least of our citizens. That's our responsibility. So we can't always run like a business, even though we try to do it as much as we can.

Well, and I'll pick up where you left off, and I will say an ounce of prevention, and we do operate that way, is worth a pound of whatever. And the reality is that when we don't do the things that we need to do to protect property values, to protect job growth, to protect good job growth, to do all of the things that we do to make sure that the number of impoverished residents stays low and continues to decrease. That's the mission. So that we're not necessarily... helping those that are impoverished at the exclusion of making sure that we keep our folks thriving. And that's the community that we've all lived in for years. And that's the community that we want to maintain. And maintaining property values is really important, given that as any individuals, typically they're their most valued asset. And it is what creates generational wealth in this country.

Madam Chair, although we have to continue to be diligent in getting out the word and the education, the good news is I think the people of Florida are realizing this is a boondoggle. And the latest polls are showing it's going down.

Yes. Well, I just feel like I wasn't going to say anything. I was just going to keep my mouth shut. Oh, heavens. Wait. We have inequity in the current system. Our property tax system is inequitable. We see it. We know it. You live it every single day. Our realtors experience it all the time. It's not that we are not advocating for reform or an evening out of the system, but we have services, to everyone else's point, that have to be delivered. And so I think the question that I am posing to the citizens who I am asking to reach out to me and give their input is, how do you want us to pay for the services that you receive? The services that we deliver in this county, how do you want us to pay for them? Do you want us to pay for them through property taxes, which is the current model that we have set up? Do you want us to pay for them through assessments, through increased other fees, user fees, or which ones do you want us to eliminate? Because that's really where we're headed. If 60% or more of the voters in Florida vote to change the system, That's the current system we're working in. If the system changes, we need to know from our citizens how they want us to pay for these services.

Well, I think part of that is the invisibility in certain services and how citizens understand how it's actually paid for. You don't worry about a sidewalk or a pothole until your street's in disarray or your children are tripping over the sidewalk or whatever and how that's funded and paid for, et cetera, et cetera, or how you move through the community based on smart traffic devices, et cetera, et cetera, saving you and your family time and aggravation getting across town or through the community. You know, I said it before and I'll say it again. Our country was founded on the citizens' ability to dictate and decide how they would be taxed. In fact, that's one of the reasons this country was even found. But we must educate for them to understand that, sure, if you want to get rid of it, this is what it looks like. And until that happens... Sometimes things have to get real broken before they get fixed. I'd hate to see us get to that point. But I think it's incumbent upon us through this process to educate and put as much information out there. I mean, look, there's going to be people that say, well, we don't believe that for a second. That's government. And I was one of those people before I arrived here. You actually see what's going on. The reality is... They have a decision to make in November. It's our obligation to give them as much information in the most simplistic way possible for them to pull it in, digest it, and make a rational, good decision. And I think that's really what our focus should be, and I think what I've heard from my fellow commissioners, which is exactly what hopefully happens. I think that's what we're doing.

All right. With that, can we adjourn? Yes. Meeting adjourned. Until the afternoon.

Oh, is he? What about Mr. Elliott that is now sending more emails?

I've never heard anyone say this. Thank you. Thank you.

It's been a long time since I've seen you.

I can run that.

Oh, we got two. I've never been there.

Oh, it's nice. Yeah, it's great.

So yeah, if you want to swing by, swing in. I'll be there.

It's like I have a crystal ball or something, you know? Oh, thank you. Oh, cool.

Very good. I just got, you know where I just got that from? Thank you. Okay. I don't think I'm going to talk, but I think it's just in case. Okay, so you'd be at the end. is it an agenda item yes

Thank you.

What's the long slash light red here?

Olive. Thank you. It is 1.30.

The clock in the chambers is a few minutes past. It's a few minutes slow, and so therefore we are a few minutes slow. So it is interesting how creatures of habit are creatures of habit. We watch that clock religiously, and so here we are. So I'll reconvene the meeting. We are starting this off with a bang with the quarterly employee service recognition with Christina Brandolini up on the deck again. Thanks.

Good afternoon, Chairman and Commissioners. Christina Brandolini, Human Resources Director. I got to do all my favorite things today, benefits and employee awards. So I'm happy to be here this afternoon as we have the pleasure of recognizing several employees for their service to Seminole County. We're gonna start, Kim Ornberg with Environmental Services will lead us off in recognizing Elizabeth Montgomery, Solid Waste Coordinator with 20 years of service.

Good afternoon, and as Christina said, I'm Kim Orenberg. I'm the Environmental Services Director, and it's my pleasure to present Elizabeth Montgomery, or Liz, as we like to call her, who has spent 20 years of her career all in solid waste with us in the Solid Waste Division. scale operator before moving to senior staff assistant and finally as our solid waste coordinator position for the last four years. She's been so successful I think with us and with our team because she is so dedicated to the solid waste division and helps everyone. She's always willing to help. And even to this day, if they need help in the scale house, she will jump in and go out there and help wherever she's needed. As a senior staff assistant, she took on duties of the program coordinator and the solid waste coordinator while those positions were vacant. Due to her efforts, then she was promoted into her current role as solid waste coordinator. She's always been dedicated to furthering her education as well, and she now holds an AS degree as an office administrator and continues to take office in solid waste management courses. courses to keep up with the rapidly changing technologies and regulations. When Liz isn't at work, she loves to cook and to travel and to spend time with her family. And while she also loves all sports, the Tampa Bay Bucks continue to be her very favorite. Go Bucks. We're very happy and fortunate to have her as a longtime valued member of our environmental services team. And Liz, I want to say to you, thank you for all of your years of service to Seminole County, to your dedication to our citizens, our customers, and to our team. So thank you.

Next, Deputy Chief Matt Hetler will be recognizing Fire Department employees, and we're going to start with Lakshmi Sankaran, Public Safety Data Compliance Analyst with 25 years of service.

Good afternoon, Honorable Commission. Again, I'm Deputy Chief Matt Hetler with the Fire Department. Lakshmi Sankaran began her career with the Seminole County in 2001 as an intern for the Seminole County Cartography Team. She's a graduate from the University of Montana, where she obtained her master's degree in geography and cartography. During her employment, she has served in planning and development, public works, information services, and is currently with the Fire Department as a data compliance analyst. Next up will be Lieutenant Dave Williams. He's going to be celebrating 30 years of service. Lieutenant Dave Williams began his career with the Seminole County Fire Department in 1996. During his career, he proudly served the citizens of Seminole County in countless roles, including firefighter, paramedic, flight paramedic on Rescue 3 and air care, training lieutenant, rescue specialist assigned to alert with Seminole County Sheriff's Aviation Unit, public information officer, honor guard, bite team, and instructor for numerous EMS disciplines, including advanced cardiac life support, pediatric advanced life support, CPR, and as the regional coordinator and lead instructor for pre-hospital trauma life support. Lieutenant Williams is currently serving and assigned at Station 36 A-Shift, the very station where he began his career and where he plans to finish it.

That concludes our presentation for this afternoon. So if we can do pictures, we'll have everybody go in order.

Thank you. Thank you. But it is cold in here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, where'd Constantine get off to? Got lost again. Oh, there he is. Oh, popcorn. Popcorn refill. For everybody. No, it's not. You could have brought cheeseburgers.

What's that?

All right. We'll move into the public hearing portion of the agenda, looking for proof of publication.

So moved.

Second.

I'm a first and a second. All those in favor? Aye. Hearing none, passes unanimously. Ex parte disclosure, please.

It's been submitted online, but I'll submit it in person as well.

All right. Mine has been submitted online.

I've been submitted. Let's also include a hard copy. Pass that down. Mine has been submitted online through the clerk's office.

Mine's been submitted online, and it was all about the Henderson Hills rezoning and their emails.

All right. I'll look to the county attorney.

While the Board welcomes comments from all persons with an interest in these proceedings, Florida law requires the Board's decision in quasi-judicial actions to be supported by competent substantial evidence presented to the Board during the hearings on the applications. Competent substantial evidence is such evidence as the reasonable mind would accept is adequate to support a conclusion. There must be a factual basis in the record to support opinion testimony from both expert and non-expert witnesses. Persons presenting testimony may rely on factual information that they present, information presented by county staff, information the applicant presents, or on factual information included in the county staff report to support their testimony. All persons who present written materials to the board for consideration must ensure that a copy of such materials is provided to the clerk for inclusion in the board's record of the proceedings and the official minutes. Chairman?

Thank you very much. All right, the first item up is the Alafea Beasley Rezone, and this will be presented by Caitlin Apgar, Senior Planner.

Good afternoon. Caitlin Apgar, Planning and Development Services. The applicant is requesting the approval for a rezone from R1AA single family dwelling to R1 single family dwelling for a proposed single family residential subdivision of three lots on approximately 1.14 acres. The property has a future land use of low density residential, which allows a maximum density of four dwelling units per net buildable acre. The proposed three lot subdivision equates to a proposed density of approximately 2.63 dwelling units per acre. The current R1AA zoning designation requires a minimum lot size of 11,700 square feet with a minimum lot width at building line of 90 feet. The proposed R1 zoning district requires a minimum lot size of 8,400 square feet with a minimum lot width at building line of 70 feet. The property is currently developed as a single-family residence. The proposed subdivision intends to include the existing single-family home. The property proposes access onto Alafea Trail, which is classified as an urban principal arterial. Alafea Trail is currently operating at a level of service A to C, depending on the direction and time of day. Future development of the property is permitted to use the existing FDOT approved access as a common driveway serving all future residential lots. The access would function as a shared private access point and the existing location and configuration of the driveway would remain unchanged unless otherwise approved by FDOT and Seminole County. There is an existing sidewalk along Alifaya Trail, therefore the developer will not be required to build a sidewalk along the property frontage. The requested R1 zoning classification does not require a plan for review during the rezone process. Therefore, at the time of preliminary subdivision plan review, the development will be evaluated for required buffers. The R1 zoning district does not require open space. The proposed lots are within Seminole County's potable water service area and are required to connect. The proposed lots are also within the county sewer service area and reclaimed irrigation area, but will not be required to connect. The portion of Beasley Estates located directly southeast of the proposed development is characterized by lots that have a minimum lot width of 70 feet and a minimum lot size of 8,400 square feet. The adjacent Beasley Estates development is consistent with the proposed R1 zoning district dimensional standards and the request provides an appropriate transition from the larger lot sizes and widths to the north and southwest. The request is consistent with the Seminole County Land Development Code and the prevailing trend of development characterized by single family developments in the area. The overall density complies with the underlying feature land use designation of four dwelling units per net buildable acre and the proposed zoning designation is also compatible. In compliance with Seminole County Land Development Code Section 30.35 Community Meeting Procedures, the applicant conducted a community meeting on April 21, 2026. Details of this meeting have been included in your agenda package. The Planning and Zoning Board met on June 3, 2026 and voted unanimously to recommend the Board adopt the ordinance enacting the rezone from R1AA to R1. Staff requests the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from R1AA single-family dwelling to R1 single-family dwelling as per the following motion as projected on the slide. Thank you.

Thank you. Is the applicant here? Do they wish to make a presentation? The applicant is here. If you would, sir, please give your name and address for the record.

Sure. Greetings. My name is Paul Kaufman, 840 Palmetto Terrace, Oviedo, Florida. I'm a part owner of the property. I'm here to answer any questions.

Okay. Thank you. And do we have any public comment on this item? No, ma'am. All right. Board members, any questions?

No, ma'am. Madam Chair?

Yes, Commissioner Delary.

I'd like to make a motion based on the staff's finding and testimony and evidence received at this hearing. And I find the request consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and meets the applicant's portion of the Land Development Code and move to adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from R1AA single-family dwelling to R1 single-family dwelling on approximately 1.14 acres on the west side of Alpha Trail south of Beasley Road. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Passes unanimously.

Madam Chair.

Yes, sir.

Not specifically on this one, but something that I heard while going through. They said, we still have a sidewalk fund, do we not? Mm-hmm. And I heard that because we've already built sidewalks there, that they would not be required to build sidewalks. Would there not be a possibility, since that is a public good and we're doing that already, that maybe we would look at them contributing to the sidewalk fund? Not specifically this one, because they've gone through things. But would that be required? Could we look into that?

Yes, I'll look into that.

Because if they're already done, we paid for it, just to be something that I would consider. I'm not saying we do it or not. For future applications. Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's why I waited until we voted.

So a consideration for future applications to be brought back to the board for consideration.

Absolutely, that's what I'm saying. It seems only fair. Got it.

In the spirit of looking for all opportunities for a new generation, I appreciate that. All right, the next item is BioFit ReZone, and this is Ms. Caitlin Apgar again.

Good afternoon again. Caitlin Apgar, Planning and Development Services. The applicant is requesting the approval for a ReZone from C1 Retail Commercial to C2 General Commercial for a proposed car dealership on approximately 1.65 acres located on the northwest corner of Camp Road and west of State Road 426. The property has a future land use of industrial, which allows a maximum intensity of 0.6 floor area ratio. The current floor area ratio of the site is 0.16. The applicant is requesting a rezone from C1 retail commercial to C2 general commercial to redevelop the subject property as an automobile dealership without automobile repair. The site is located in the Seminole County Utility Service Area and is connected to water and sewer. Environmental Services is requiring the developer to provide a utility easement for maintenance of county utility lines, as one was not previously established during the original development. The property currently has one access onto Camp Road, a county maintained local road. There is an existing sidewalk along Camp Road that connects to the site and to the trail to the rear. There's also a sidewalk existing along State Road 426 that is connected to the site. Buffer and open space requirements will be determined at final site plan approval. The site was approved for development in 2019 in compliance with the county land development code. The site was previously developed as an 11,254 square foot gym in 2019. The developer proposes to renovate the existing building to accommodate for the selling and storage of vehicles. The proposed use of automobile sales does not adversely affect the surrounding property and is required to maintain adequate buffering from State Road 426, Camp Road, and the trail to the northwest. C2 is consistent with the surrounding properties. The development pattern in this area includes public utility sites as well as light manufacturing and warehouse facilities, which are consistent with the industrial future land use designation. The proposed C2 zoning district is considered compatible with the industrial future land use. In compliance with the Seminole County Land Development Code, the applicant conducted a community meeting on March 3rd, 2026. Details of this meeting have been included in the agenda package. The Planning and Zoning Board met on June 3rd, 2026 and voted unanimously to recommend the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from C1 to C2. The meeting minutes have been included in the agenda package. Staff requests the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from C1 retail commercial to C2 general commercial as per the following motion as projected on the slide above. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. Is the applicant here? Yes.

Good afternoon. On behalf of the applicant, McGregor Love, 215 North Eola Drive from the Lowndes Law Firm. We concur with staff's report. I'll just note a couple of additional items. And again, we are, Caitlin used the right word, renovating this building. We're not expanding the footprint in any way, not proposing an expansion. There was also a question at Planning and Zoning about how vehicles will be displayed on the property. Our understanding is that C2 does not outright prohibit the outdoor storage of vehicles, but there's no current intention to store vehicles outside. If you look at Page six six three of your agenda packet That's where the aerial is and I don't know if the if you're able to go to the aerial portion of that Presentation as well. You'll see that along State Road 426, which is really the only main right-of-way view, you know, there's a there's a view of There's a significant buffer of trees and that's much more visible if you looked at sort of the Google map Street view but but if any cars were displayed there they would not be visible from the right-of-way so it sort of makes outdoor display of vehicles impractical But I'm here to answer any questions that you have appreciate it. We concur with staffs recommendation. We ask for approval Thank you.

Thank you. Stay close. Do we have any public comment?

Yes, ma'am. There's one speaker Marcos tries mouth. I

Sir, if you would give your name and address for the record, and you'll have three minutes after that.

Sure. My name is Marcus Treismel. I live at 2776 Cypress Head Trail, Vito, Florida, 32765. Do I commence?

You do commence.

All right. Well, good afternoon. Thank you for having me here. It sucks that I'm the only one, though. But anyway, I live very near that area where the dealership is planned to be set up, I guess. And I guess I'm here in representation with the people in my subdivision, at least, where we've been talking about it, where we don't think it's just... It belongs there. Like this is, Aloma is Main Street, but this area is mostly residential. The plan is to have a dealership. It just doesn't add up. It doesn't match the area. It's going to bring potentially more traffic, which is already congested. We need new buildings coming up. So I don't think, again, it's not going to help the community in terms of visibility and traffic and stuff like that. So, well, I'm opposed to it. A bunch of people in my community are opposed to it. I'm just here to just, I guess, probably say so and say that, you know, maybe, I don't know if you guys have the power to just consider that A dealership just doesn't belong in the area. It's not a restaurant. It's not a gym. It's a car dealership. I heard that, okay, currently the plan is currently there's no feasibility for cars. So, okay, currently maybe they're going to chop the trees and it's going to, okay, eventually will be. And then it's also like I think this will set precedence for other projects. potential more commercial kind of stores to start populating the area. And it will be turning from a residential area to a more commercial area. And this is still Oviedo. Oviedo was supposed to be more of a rural area. Progressively in the past 20 years without it being in the area, it's gone more commercial, which like a lot of us don't like. So anyway, so here I'm just to raise my voice in complaint, saying, again, this does not belong there, and hopefully it won't stay there. I guess that's all I've got to say.

Thank you very much for being here, sir. Thank you for having me. Would the applicant like to respond? Thank you, sir.

Again, for the record, McGregor Love, you turn to page 664 of your agenda packet, and could you pull up the future land use map for this property? And I know that everyone on this commission knows this, but the future land use map is the planning document for the county. It's where the county goes and kind of designates by sector It sets the goalposts for what type of uses in zoning districts can be developed in a certain area, and you'll see that this area, this parcel, is not just industrially designated, but it's actually surrounded by additional industrial parcels. It's not one of those to the east that you see that's actually adjacent to residential. So the question before you, it's a rezoning request. There is a proposed use, but the question of is this consistent with the future land use map, clearly it's consistent with that future land use map. And to one of the specific concerns that the gentleman mentioned was traffic. My understanding and Anyone from the county who knows this differently, please do correct me. But my understanding is that the ITE rate for automotive sales is slightly lower than the ITE rate for a gym. So there should actually be a reduction in the number of trips. But that's all. I'm here to answer any of your questions as well. Thank you.

Thank you. Commissioner Zimbauer?

I do have a question for the applicant. Car dealer operations is something I'm acutely aware of, and I think I heard you indicate there'll be no vehicles kept or maintained outside. Is that what I heard said earlier? That's correct. So all vehicles for sale will be inside the building? That's correct. Okay. So outside the building, we suspect, would be employees' vehicles? Correct. Customer vehicles? Yes. We would not have vehicles with streamers and flags and big numbers on the windshield being sold? No, that is not the intent. It's intended to be a specialty car dealership. That's what it sounds like, high-end. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to do a little look around. There was an invitation for staff to refute the traffic, and I see no one raising their hand to refute the traffic statement. So from a factual standpoint, okay. So it stands. Thank you. You can be seated. Thank you. I want to confirm that there's no further public comment on this? Correct. All right.

Madam Chair.

Yes, Commissioner Delary.

Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, this is a specialty auto resale, and as the applicant has stated, This entire area on that side of 426 is future land use is industrial or is existing industrial. And based on the staff's finding and testimony evidence received here today at the hearing and the findings and requests are consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the portions of the land development code, and I would like to make a motion to adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from C1 retail commercial to C2 commercial. General commercial proposed car dealership on approximately one point six five acres located in the northwest corner of Camp Road and West State Road 426 second motion in a second any further discussion hearing none all those in favor opposed passes unanimously

Thank you. I think that takes us to item number 25, Slavia Station PD Rezone. And this is Ms. Afgar again. We're going to have to buy you a Coke after this call.

Good afternoon. Caitlin Afgar, Planning Adult Development Services, for the record. The applicant is requesting the approval for a rezone from PD plan development to PD plan development for a proposed coffee shop and renovation of a historical building on approximately 1.45 acres located on the east side of State Road 426 south of Red Bug Road. The subject property had previously secured approval of PD zoning entitlements and a PD future land use, approved on August 14, 2007. In accordance with Seminole County Land Development Code Section 30.8.5.6, the required final development plan was not submitted within five years and substantial development had not occurred within eight years after approval. As a result, the PD entitlements had expired, necessitating this rezone. There was no maximum floor area ratio established per the previously approved PD. However, the applicant is proposing a maximum floor area ratio of 0.24 in this request. The proposed development as depicted in the master development plan has an overall FAR of 0.10. The previous PD entitlements included permitted uses of OP office in CN neighborhood commercial zoning districts. Additional previously approved uses included banks, civic assembly, daycares, and restaurants. The current request includes less extensive permitted uses consisting of uses permitted in the CN neighborhood commercial zoning district, office, and civic assembly as an accessory use limited to 16 seats. The 1,370 square foot building existing on the property is considered to be historical in nature. The structure was utilized as a filling station and general store for the early Slavia community around 1929. The applicant proposes to utilize the existing structure as a coffee shop as well as construct a pavilion, bathroom facilities, and an additional office building in the rear. This development is within Seminole County's potable water service area and sanitary sewer area and is required to connect to public utilities. The developer will be required to build a private pump station to connect to the county's force main system. The property will access onto Red Bug Road, which is classified as a local road. The developer is required to build a five-foot sidewalk along the property's frontage on Red Bug Road. Landscape buffers required include a 10-foot wide buffer along the north property line and a 15-foot wide buffer with a 3-foot hedge enhancement along the east, south, and west property lines. Specific buffer components will be established at final development plan. 25% common usable open space will be provided on the subject property. The proposed PED zoning designation and the associated master development plan have been evaluated for compatibility with the Seminole County Land Development Code. The specific criteria are projected on the slides above. The existing PED future land use is consistent with the proposed PED zoning. The proposed master development plan and development order appropriately address compatibility with the surrounding development pattern. The proposed development is providing an innovative concept that allows for the preservation of a historical building while serving the greater residential community through the provision of neighborhood compatible commercial uses. The cultural preservation of the historic building in the Slavia community is a nod to the existing roots of the community and works to serve as an amenity to conserve a piece of heritage while developing a new expression to the site. The proposed development is expected to assist in reducing vehicle miles traveled per household. The project is located across the street from the Cross Seminole Trail and is providing a sidewalk network and bicycle parking to bolster pedestrian accessibility to the site. The applicant conducted a community meeting on February 10th, 2026. Details of this meeting are included in the agenda package. The Planning and Zoning Board met on May 6th, 2026 and voted unanimously to recommend the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from PD to PD. Staff requests the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from PD plan development to PD plan development as per the motion projected on the screen. Thank you.

Thank you. Is the applicant here? Yes.

I have a question for staff.

Sure.

Do we have any idea in the last time that fuel was dispensed on this property?

I don't have an idea.

Do we have any idea if there's any underground tanks on this property?

Not at this time.

Okay. I'll reserve for the applicant.

Thank you. Come on up, sir.

My name is John Frith of Frith & Associates, and I have the architect here, T. Gray Frazier. The applicant, the owner, had a medical emergency, so she couldn't attend today. We concur with staff's review, and if you have any questions, I'll try to answer.

Could you answer Commissioner Zembauer's question that I think he's going to ask again?

We're not aware of any tanks on the property. I'm assuming they've all been dug up and disposed of. And as far as gasoline being dispensed, it's been many, many years since that's even been open.

Has there been any environmental tests done on the property to make that determination?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. Commissioner Dilary.

Thank you. For both the staff and the applicant, in one part of the presentation or the packet, it says that the building is considered to be historical. But in the presentation, it says that it is historical. Which one is it? Is it perceived to be considered historical or is it?

To my understanding, this is not a registered historical building. It's not a registered? Not registered from my understanding. We don't have a process in the county for doing that, and so it would be through the federal registry, which...

The reason why I'm asking is because in one part of the book it says considered, and the other part it says it is, and I just want to make sure which one it is.

Yes, sir. Considered.

Okay.

When was it built?

1929.

I would consider some of us to be historic, so we were born way before that.

I have a birthday a couple days away. Is she talking about you or me? I don't know.

You guys. Is there any public comment with regard to this item? No, ma'am. No public comment. All right. I'll look to Commissioner DeLaurie.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Based on the satisfying testimony and evidence received here today, And the findings, I feel that the request meets the identified portion of the Seminole County Land Development Code and move to adopt the acting of the rezone PD plan development to PD plan development and approve the associated development order and master development plan for proposed coffee shop and renovation of the historical building on approximately 1.45 acres located on the east side of State Road 426 and south of Redbug Lake, south Redbug.

We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Yes. Commissioner Constantine had his hand up.

Go ahead. I think Commissioner Zimbabwe is going to say the same thing, so I'll defer to him. That's okay.

I would typically support this type of project, but without having any knowledge of previous dispensing of fuel in any underground tanks and lacking any environmental impact studies on the ground, I will not be voting in favor of this project moving forward.

Commissioner Constantine.

As a friendly amendment, Commissioner Delory, I would request that we do have an environmental impact on this piece of property. Commissioner Zimbauer is correct. Although it's been a long time, we don't know what kind of damage there possibly could be. Hopefully, there is none. But still, I would not want to put ourselves in a situation where we'd have to come back and clean up.

Well, let me ask the attorney a question. County attorney, when they do site plan and the engineering, are they going to have to do a level one environmental?

I don't know the answer to that, actually, but I would defer to development services. Okay.

Chairman and Commissioners, Mike Rhodes, Director of Development Services. There would be an environmental analysis required as part of that site engineering work. I can't say it would be level one, level two. But they have to do it. They would have to do that work and provide evidence that the site's clean and ready for development. And if the site is not clean, then they have to clean it, correct? They would have to go through the process and likely involve the state. And we all understand what that entails.

That would be my interpretation of it as well. Yeah.

Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? None opposed. It passes unanimously.

Thank you. Thank you.

For this item, I'm going to pass the gavel to the vice chair, since this is in my district. Item 26, vice chair.

She doesn't think I know what number we're on. Sorry for that.

If staff would please come forward and present the item that we have before us, Henderson Hill Rezone.

Good afternoon. Annie Silloway with Development Services. The applicant is requesting a rezone of the subject property from A1 Agriculture to C1 Retail Commercial. The rezone to C1 will allow development in accordance with the C1 zoning district, which permits uses including but not limited to banks, convenience stores, and restaurants. The subject property has an existing feature land use of commercial, which allows a floor area ratio of 0.35. The intent of the commercial land use designation is to provide appropriate locations to identify locations for a variety of commercial uses including neighborhood and community shopping centers, convenience stores, and retail sales. This land use should be located at intersections or along major roadways as infill development where this use is established. The applicant proposes to develop the property with three restaurants, each with a drive-through lane, and does not intend to subdivide the property into separate parcels. The applicant proposes access via Henderson Lane, which is classified as a local road, with a cross-access connection extending west through the existing commercial plaza. A full traffic study and a cross-access easement agreement will be required at the time of site plan approval. The subject property is within the State Road 46 Gateway Corridor and will require the applicant to maintain a minimum landscape buffer of 25 feet and a 50 foot building setback. The request is consistent with the Seminole County Land Development Code and the surrounding area. The C1 zoning district is intended to permit and encourage a full range of essential commercial uses while at the same time protecting nearby residential properties from any possible adverse effects of commercial activity. The applicant will be providing the required open space and adequate landscape buffers to be consistent with the residential district to the north, which will be demonstrated at the time of site plan approval. The proposed C-1 zoning classification is consistent with the established development pattern along State Road 46 that consists and aligns with the intent and allowable intensity of the commercial future land use category by supporting comparable commercial activities and is compatible with the zoning designation of the properties located to the west of the subject site and consistent with the future land use designation. The applicant conducted a community meeting on February 26th of this year and the Planning and Zoning Commission met on May 6th, 2026 and voted unanimously to recommend the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from A1 to C1. And also I wanted to place on the record that after publication of the BCC agenda, staff did receive a couple of emails on the rezone and they have been distributed to the BCC. Sorry. Okay. To conclude, staff requests the Board of County Commissioners adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from A1 Agriculture to C1 Retail Commercial as per the following motion. That is not on the screen, so I'll read it. So based on staff's findings and the testimony and evidence received at the hearing, the board finds the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the applicable portions of the Land Development Code and moves to adopt the ordinance enacting a rezone from A1 Agriculture to C1 Retail Commercial on approximately 4.32 acres and is located on the northwest corner of West State Road 46 and Henderson Lane. And that concludes my presentation. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Is the applicant here? And would you like to make a presentation?

Hi. Julie Farr with C Development Services. We're the civil engineering firm for this project. We're just here to answer any questions you may have.

All right. We will let you know if there are any questions. Thank you. Are there any members of the public here who wish to speak?

Yes, ma'am. There's one speaker, June Han.

And if there are other members here who wish to speak who did not fill out a form, now is your time. We'll not be asking for forms again. So this is it.

Good afternoon, Commissioner.

We respectfully... Sir, if I could, we didn't read... Did we read the public? We did earlier at the very beginning. I don't know if you heard it, but you need to submit your name and address, say it for the record, so that we know who you are. And then you'll have three minutes.

Yes, thank you. This is Jun Han. My address is 5471 Green Oak Place, Sanford, Florida, 32771. I respectively request the commission consider expanding the buffer zone because the 25 feet buffer zone and the 15 feet from the building is not enough. For this subdivision, some properties are extremely close to the development area. For example, my property is approximately 33 feet from the house to the development area, and 12 feet from my pool area, swimming pool area, to the development area. and there are also another six houses in my subdivision. They are such close to the development area. We notice currently the commercial development, commercial complex Next to our subdivision, it has a 50 feet buffer zone, but still residents next to that commercial complex experience significant noise impact. For example, during 9, 11 p.m., you can still hear the traffic or the music from the car in the parking lot of the commercial complex. And also we notice this development area is located in higher ground compared to these homes. So we worry if the buffer zone is not big enough, then we are experiencing storm water runoff and drainage impacts. So we respectfully ask to expand the buffer zone. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Next is Cindy Haller. And who is after Ms. Haller? And after Ms. Haller will be Eustacia Canty, and that will be the last speaker.

Okay. Ms. Canty, if you could come forward, too, please, so that right after Ms. Haller is done speaking, you're right there ready to go. All right.

So good afternoon, Alton here and commissioners. Can you hear me? Oh, there we go. Gosh. All right, so this, I learned about this. Name and address for the record, please. Oh, sorry about that, Amy. Cindy Holler, 1731 Beacon Drive, Sanford. Okay, so I learned about this. We're talking about these restaurants going in on 46, big tree area. I could tell you there's definitely bears and other wildlife in there. So I don't know if there's, what the policy is with bear dens, but doing your environmental study, So if there were gonna be restaurants, which I don't really think the three fast food restaurants is really a great idea, definite bear-proof dumpsters with no gates to open and close, because there have been issues with code enforcement on the other restaurants, Tijuana Flats, Riverwalk, some of the other ones along 46, where the bears have been feasting on yummy leftovers. It's not healthy for them. And that's why you see pictures of these bears. They're really heavy because they're eating too many high calorie human leftovers. So I don't know what kind of beer proof dumpster. I mean, maybe if it is going to be restaurants, maybe that can be something that can be researched. But they need to keep the bears out. And as far as tree retention, there needs to be a lot of tree retention. So I'd love to see the perimeter. the trees kept and also the trees in the back for noise barrier for the neighbors that back up to that i mean probably 50 to 100 feet if that's possible and those items to be added to the development order thank you very much hi good afternoon my name is eustacia cantor i live in the lake forest community

While I don't live adjacent, right next to this site, all of these developments, in the big picture, they are affecting all of us that live in the surrounding area. I question whether three fast food restaurants are really a compatible use in this particular location. There's going to be a lot more traffic. There is a neighborhood very close to these restaurants. practically will be in their backyard. And a 30-foot tree buffer is not really going to seem like very much, considering that that existing large buffer of trees is probably blocking some of the noise from 46, which has actually become much more since we had all the roadway expansion, the requirement parkway. The noise, even where I live, is much louder. So I'm not sure taking out all of those trees and leaving these people with a 30-foot buffer there is really going to accomplish very much because they're also going to be exposed more to the noise from 46. And also, as someone else just commented, there is a lot of wildlife in that area and in adjacent areas. And there are other restaurants down on 46 that are leaving dumpsters open and unsecured, which we've emailed code enforcement about several times. So my concern if this does goes through would be like some planning ahead where we have actual bear resistant dumpsters that don't rely on people closing and locking gates because in practice that's just not happening. So that's pretty much all I have to say right now. I did send a more detailed email. Thank you.

Thank you so much. All right. If that is the last public commenter, we'll close public comment. All right. Thank you. Does the applicant wish to rebut any of the items or answer any questions?

Yeah. I know there's concerns as far as the existing vegetation. We will maintain as much as possible of the natural buffer in the rear and whatever is required to code. We will also have a 30-foot buffer where a 25-foot is required. to give extra distance, will meet all the building setbacks. As far as stormwater, we've proposed a pond on property that will maintain all of airflow. Nothing will discharge from the property. We've completed a traffic study already that shows there is adequate capacity, and the projected traffic for our development will not negatively impact this at all. There will still be capacity after we're developed as far as the intersection analysis and the traffic. We understand we're in a bare management area and we'll take whatever precautions we need to there as far as dumpsters and stuff to make sure everything is clean. This is an existing developer. He will own and maintain the property. He has an HOA. He has an in-house property manager that maintains all of his property. So the concern of trash and that kind of thing should not be an issue here.

Commissioners, any questions? I saw Commissioner Zembauer's hand go up, and then Commissioner Delary.

I just want to get some clarification. When you say you'll do whatever's necessary to keep the bears out of the dumpster, tell me a little bit about what your thoughts are about that.

I personally live in Wekiva, which is near the forest. We have certain times you can put out garbage, certain kinds of garbage cans you can put out that are more bear resistant. There's nothing that's really bear proof. There's, I'm sure, special dumpsters through Seminole County that you can put in place, but I mean, the bottom line is you can do everything you can do to keep them out. Understood. And there won't be trash around to attract them. It will be in the dumpster. It won't be sitting around it.

Understood. So are you committing that you're going to do a bear resistant dumpster?

We can, yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Black.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate you doing what you're going to do with the dumpsters or the food waste. But my question is also about controlling the sound on the drive-through. Because I've seen many times in other areas that people have complained that late at night when people are talking in and out of the – Drive-through, you can hear it in long distance. So it's important that they're put not just in the right location, but the speakers are pointed away from the homes. And then also, at what time would those drive-throughs be operational? Because people do like to go to the drive-through late at night. And I'm sure that the people around there would love to hear their orders in the adjacent properties at whatever hours that they're in operation.

Right.

But would not like to hear it.

Right. We will try to point the speakers away. Depending on the design, it may not be possible for everyone. But we can do landscaping. We can also, there's a six-foot wall that is currently in place behind the neighborhood that we will improve paint. Any missing blocks we'll update. We can also, if need be, add a wall behind our speakers and landscaping there to, you know, mitigate any sound so you won't hear it.

I'd like to get a little more of a commitment than just we will see. And so I'm hoping that the... We are... If you'd like to see our plan, we actually have it on here. I'm just hoping that the district commissioner has more thoughts on this.

I do have more thoughts on this. Yes. So you can have a seat. Sure. Thank you. So this is a straight rezone. So if this had come through in a PD, we would be able to sit up here and have all those discussions and create requirements. But a straight rezone doesn't allow us to do that.

Correct. Unless the applicant offers to do it.

Hold on. I'm asking the attorney, not us.

That's correct. On straight rezones, we just rezone it to the conventional zoning district. There is no development order that's issued with conditions that you can place on it.

And so, in addition to all the stuff that you all brought up, I also have concerns around why you wouldn't access this from 4%. 46 as opposed to accessing it through what is really a very small road that goes into this neighborhood that has no outlet on the other end. So if somebody comes out and turns in the wrong direction, they're doing weird U-turns down there. It should be entering through the main road. We can't legislate that in this type of route. So I will tell you that I am prepared to deny the request. I think, first of all, I'll be as clear as I can be Three fast food restaurants coming from agricultural to see all the way to three fast food restaurants in front of this neighborhood just does not seem compatible to me. And especially coming through in this type of zoning request, Our policy, FLU 5.3.3, states that commercial developments adjacent to existing residential neighborhoods should be developed as planned developments with flexible site design. to provide buffers, maintain existing tree cover, allow for adequate and safe pedestrian and bicycle connections between the planned development and existing residential neighborhoods, and maximize visual compatibility, which we have no ability to do in this, with the surrounding neighborhoods. Since the request is directly adjacent to an existing residential development, it doesn't comply with this policy. So PD rezoning would be the most appropriate method for us to get to this and make this as palatable for this existing neighborhood that was built next to agricultural, albeit with the future land use of commercial, so that we can create a good environment for those that already own property and have property rights in addition to the owner of this property as well. So I am prepared to make a motion. based on the findings and the testimony and the evidence received, I, the Board of Commissioners, to find the request does not meet the identified portions of the Seminole County Land Development Code. And I would move to deny the requested rezone from plan development to PD and approve. Oh, I'm reading the wrong one. That's awesome. That is fabulous. I was reading the wrong one. I'm moving to deny it. I thought I had. So just for the record, I thought, I don't know why she doesn't have it. I have it. There's a motion to deny. There's a motion to deny.

Is there a second? Second. There's a motion and a second. Is there discussion?

Yes.

Commissioner Zandbauer.

This is for staff.

Ma'am, if you would like to have a seat, that would be super helpful. Thank you.

Help me understand how staff has supported this and where we're at. And I've read it. I've been through it. You claim it meets all the things it needs to meet? Mm-hmm. if you heard the district commissioner's comments. What say staff?

What say it of us? Well, it is consistent with the area. It faces State Road 46. There are other C1 uses in the area. Our code for buffers is adequate enough to provide a buffer to the north. So when we do a straight rezone to C1, the buffer code would, at the time of site plan, provide adequate buffering against the adjacent residential properties.

And...

It doesn't address the traffic. It doesn't address the use of the road. Understood.

The... In planning and zoning, move this forward unanimously, correct?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Who are our appointees?

Yes, sir.

Okay. All right. I think that's all I have. One more thing. Yes, sir. And maybe I overlooked it. Operating hours.

Yes, sir.

What are the operating hours?

So we do have standard operating hours of operation in the land development code. So at the time of site plan, they would have to abide by those. Which are? Right now, I think it's 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. I think so. 10 or 11. Don't quote me on it.

All right. Thank you.

You're very welcome.

That's all I have for now.

Before we have any more questions, I think the county attorney would like to have an opportunity to help clarify the motion that was seconded.

Yeah, so, you know, for motions for denial, the Florida statutes require us to put the reasons for denial on the record through the motion. And so, since that motion, you're reading from something that was... I think it would be best in this case if the... if the seconder withdraws their second and you withdraw your motion and state for the record why you are denying it and point to the specifics as to why. That will help us when we render the development order and it will help us be compliant with the Florida statutes.

I withdraw my second. Thank you.

I withdraw my motion. So motion is withdrawn and the seconder withdraws their second and is there a new motion? There is a new motion.

I move to deny it based on the fact that the request is a conventional rezoning from C1. However, Policy Flu 5.3.3 states that commercial developments adjacent to the existing residential neighborhoods should be developed as planned developments with a flexible site design to provide adequate buffers, maintain existing tree cover, allow for adequate and safe pedestrian and bicycle connections between the planned development and existing residential neighborhoods and maximize visual compatibility with surrounding neighborhoods. Since this request is directly adjacent to existing residential development, it does not comply with this policy. PD rezoning is appropriate method to rezone this property and would allow us to require the appropriate conditions to protect the adjacent neighborhood. There's a motion.

I'll second again.

And a second.

Discussion.

Any further discussion? Commissioner Constantine.

Normally, as most of you know, I would not like PDs. But that's usually in developments, housing developments, because usually all PDs are asking for additional development. density without really understanding or requesting or asking for more setback or higher setback or where we want, and other things that I think would be essential in residential. In this case, it's not the fact that I have a problem with the restaurants on 46, but the district commissioner And others in the discussion, individual citizens as well as commissioners, have talked about the various concerns that are here. I truly, on this property, I truly believe that probably it would be much better if we could find a way that they would have access through 46. I believe that if you look at the property, there is a great deal of tree retention. If we could have more buffer and setback from the back and maintain those trees, the wall obviously is in disrepair and would need to be fixed and probably not only be fixed but improved for noise. The bear-proof containers. And I respect and thank the young lady that came up from the engineering that says, we'll try. We'd be happy to. We'd do this. But it would be so much better if we had it in writing. that they came in and said, this is what we will do without, because we cannot ask them, we can ask them, we cannot require them, they can offer to do it. So with all that in mind, and I probably missed a thing or two, but with all that in mind, I agree with the motion. In this case, it probably, one of maybe, you know, Only one in 99.9% of the time I would like to have had a PD instead of straight zoning.

Commissioner Zimbal.

Questions for our attorneys. In what we just heard about the PD, if an applicant has voluntarily agreed to place restrictions or adopt restrictions that are suggested by this board. Are you telling us that is non-enforceable?

I'm telling you that that would be enforceable through a development order that we would have to put together and the applicant would have to be agreed to. And that's what we do in PD cases. Correct. But with conventional rezonings, we don't have the procedure to do that. And so then it's not reviewed to come back to you. Procedurally, we don't have it in our code to be able to do that is what I'm saying.

Understood.

But legally, they can agree to do it.

Correct.

Yes.

And it's enforceable at that point.

I mean, it would be enforceable by the terms of whatever the agreement said, you know, whether we would code enforcement or whatever. But, yeah, it would be enforceable by whatever the terms of the agreement said.

Just wanted to make sure we had clarification on that because I think what we were hearing was unless it's a PD, you can't do any of that. And if that's the case, I will tell you that I sat on P&Z for a lot of years and sat on this board a lot of years where agreements were made with applicants during the course of the hearing that weren't PDs that I know we're enforcing yet today.

Commissioner Herr. And then Commissioner Constantine. So I think the challenge that we have with this one is that it didn't come through that process. This isn't one little item that we're asking for. The team did not go through the process of negotiating in advance of it coming to this board all of the details that probably need to be looked at. And quite frankly, I'm not willing to leave it to risk. So I think it's got to go back through that, as our county attorney said, the process that gets all of that written out to the degree that it is enforceable. And quite frankly, we know we're going to have code enforcement issues. We know all of the things. Then let's line it up and go put it back through the process and get it right the first time so that we're not leaving this for future boards to struggle with.

Commissioner Constantine.

I have a series of questions. First of all, Ms. Silloway, was there a reason that we went through Henderson Street instead of 46?

I would have to defer that to engineering. to answer that question regarding the access off of Henderson. I do know that if they were to request access off of State Road 40, West State Road 46, they would have to go through FDOT and go through their process.

Understood that, but I mean... Yes, okay, sure.

Wait, if you may. This could be the chair. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, I know I'm not holding the gavel, but do we have someone from county engineering here? Yeah, I think the question should go to the county engineer, and then if a commissioner has another question for you, they'll be happy to ask you and have an opportunity to answer that.

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, fellow commissioners, Joe LaFosso, Assistant County Engineer, Seminole County Public Works. As to the question of access off of State Road 46, obviously we're not going to prescribe that they cannot request that from DOT if they choose to go down that route. My initial review of it would be their struggle is going to be that on a road like State Road 46, The minimum separation of a driveway from an existing driveway or cross street would be 660 feet. Currently, they could not achieve more than half of that from Henderson or from the driveway to the smoke shop. So they would require a design variance from DOT in order to be able to access from State Road 46 directly. So again, we're not saying, obviously we're not restricting them from that option, but I would say that would be their main hurdle would be actually getting an access like that for this site on the State Road.

Does that answer your question?

Yes. All right. So my next question, Naysa.

Thank you, Mr. LaFausso.

Thank you very much, sir. So Naysa, and this is not part of the motion that I seconded, but I'm just asking. I'm trying to look for answers here. If we postponed this, And they came back with, hearing what we've said, a series of things that they agreed to. Because some of them they said they agreed to, but that was just, oh, we'll try, or yeah, we wouldn't be opposed to that. Could they come back with that, with a series of things that they had said that they would put into, voluntarily, into a development order? And could they come back, and then we could analyze that?

I would say that since what went through the planning, what you're talking about doing here is so significantly different than what was seen by the Planning and Zoning Board, they would need to come back through with a PD. That would be my suggestion. Thank you. When something comes through our system, it's routed to all of our different departments. So Natural Resources looks at it as far as the trees go and as far as the bear containers. We would send it out to probably the solid waste provider in the area to determine what the commercial bear dumpster looks like. I mean, there's things in here that would need to be routed. many things from what I'm hearing that would need to be routed through the PD process so that it touches all departments in the county. I would not suggest postponing this and then bringing it back and trying to tie it to a conventional rezoning, particularly since, as Chairman Herr has said, when a commercial is adjacent to residential uses, it should go through a PD process.

Thank you. That's the answer I needed to have.

Commissioner Zanbauer.

Which then begs the problem, how are we here? Because here's the problem that I have with this whole process is we have an applicant and a property owner that has gone through the process with our staff. And I'm somewhat perplexed why we've gone through this whole process and all of a sudden now decide we need a PD. Is it because this board has chastised staff not to do PDs? Because we hear that all the time. I mean, from a business perspective, I truly have a problem that we're running people through a process that staff has backed, number one, claims it meets the code, which, by the way, I agree. Planning and zoning has passed it unanimously. And I've heard my fellow commissioners on this board say many times, Planning and zoning approved it. That's the first look at that before we get it. This is a costly process for landowners and business owners. So I got a serious problem that we would somehow just now decide this should be a PD.

Well, I can answer that.

That's a problem I've got.

So first is, you know, the comp plan says should, doesn't say must. So if an applicant comes in with a conventional rezoning to C1, we process that application as it comes in. And you can process that application because in a commercial future land use, The C-1 zoning district is an allowable district in the commercial future land use. The comp plan says should, doesn't say must. And that's in instances where commercial is next to residential. So the county, you know, if the applicant comes in and asks for a conventional rezoning because they're in commercial and they want C-1, we have to process that. We have to process that.

Understood, 100%. But I also understand It's staff's responsibility to advise that applicant if there is something extraneous there or if it is not a process that should be taken because it's happened over and over again. I've had applicants call me and say they've gone in to make application and were told, yeah, you know, that may not be the best way to go. Here's what we suggest. And that's the expectation I would have. So with that said, I'm not going to argue with my fellow commissioners and staff on this matter, but as a businessman myself, I'm really, really concerned that this applicant has gone through time, dollars, hiring experts, our staff has approved it, planning and zoning has approved it, and here we are. That's my issue that I have.

So we have a motion and a second. Commissioner Herr, do you have something you want to add to the discussion?

I'm going to add it to the discussion, and then I'm going to finish that by calling the question. But I truly don't believe that staff did anything wrong. I think the applicant had a choice. The applicant came in. The applicant is also squeezing three fast food restaurants onto a property that is literally maxed out. I asked the question whether we could increase the buffer zone. And the answer is no, because we're trying to get to three, not two, on that property. So they made a conscious decision based on the business math that three is better than two. And that's why we're here. And quite frankly, I think we're doing the right thing by saying, let's slow the roll. They can choose not to pay for future council to bring it back through us or not. And let's make sure that we are doing everything that we can do to protect the community and facilitate the development for the landowner. With that, I'll call the question, Vice Chair. Thank you.

There's a motion and a second. We have closed discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Opposed.

Motion passes four to one. And I will pass the gavel back to Chairman Herr.

Do you want to tell me what item we're on? No, I trust you. That brings us to item 27. This is Maya. Welcome to the podium. I'm sure we've made you feel wonderful about coming up and taking the podium, but we'll put all that behind us and move on to your next item. So thank you for your work here.

Good afternoon. I do have something to hand out to you. It is the changes between the first and second reading. You have already received a copy of it, but I don't think it was in color, so this was in color. And color matters because there's red. It does.

In memory.

Well, yes, and in my instructions I did say that they would be in red, so I understand. Words of Jesus in red.

Thank you.

With that, Maya Avanis, Principal Planner, Planning and Development, and I am here to present the second reading of the Land Development Code Amendment. This is a request to consider an ordinance amending Chapter 2, Chapter 5, Chapter 20, Chapter 30, Chapter 35, Chapter 70, and Chapter 90 of the Seminole County Land Development Code. So I will say, as I said before, this is the second reading of this item. You heard the first reading last month. I am prepared to go through the presentation, but the presentation would be the same as it was last time. Or I can just go through the three things that have changed between the first and the second reading.

Madam Chair, if it would be appropriate, I'd like to go through the three things that have been changed since we've already been briefed on it several times. I concur.

Mr. Constantine.

All right. Okay, thank you. So the first of the three things that were changed is we added the use of vocational, business, and professional schools as a permitted use in the C3 zoning district. We also added multifamily residential as a permitted use in the HIP airport future land use designation when that multifamily residential is part of a mixed use development with certain floor area ratio limits, which is 49% or below for the development, and that's found in section 30.8.5.2. And then lastly, we added the option for the development services director to waive the prohibition of gated communities when developments are going through the alternative design standards process. And with that, staff request the board approve the second reading of the proposed ordinance to amend the Seminole County Land Development Code as per the following motion as shown on the screen. And I'm here to answer any questions. Thank you.

Commissioners, any questions?

I have none.

Is there public comment on this item?

Yes, ma'am. One speaker, Allison Yurko. I'm fine, thank you. Wait.

Okay.

All right, so one speaker has waived her ability to speak.

Literally.

All right, and there's a document coming down the dais. Well, it's two different people, so it's two different documents. Commissioners, is there any discussion?

I'll just say thank you to staff for the time that we had talking about this again and again. And again.

Would you all like to read this on the end of the record?

That would make it easier. This is written public comment from Cindy Holler who gave her address for the record earlier and It is neither in support or opposition, but the comment is concerned about dredging and filling cost county more money in the long term. No more dredging and filling. Also concerned about the density bonuses becoming projects. I am against the density bonuses. All right. Chairman.

If I could just say one more thing. I just want to say great job to Maya. Maya has been working on this very, very hard and development services reviewing it and after we decided to move away from the consultant, she took over this project and it's taken a lot of hours and a lot of time and she's done a really great job. So I just wanted to say it made my job easier because she did such a good job, my job to review it. So I just wanted to thank you for allowing me to say that.

So anybody can compliment anybody else at any meeting that I'm running, but I also say I don't know that I've heard Ms. Borkert make many compliments in her days, so I think you should take that one to the bank. And my mom used to tell me that everybody has their ticket into heaven, and maybe this one's yours. But hold for the vote before you cash that ticket in. Commissioners?

Ready to make a motion.

Thank you.

Move to motion to enact an ordinance amending Chapter 2, definitions, Chapter 5, administration, Chapter 20, development orders slash approvals and denials of application for development approvals, Chapter 30, zoning regulations, Chapter 35, subdivision regulations, Chapter 70, dredge and filling, and Chapter 90, uniform building numbering system of the Seminole County Land Development Code countywide.

Second. One thing, Commissioner Zembauer, does that include the changes that were made from the first reading to the second one?

Yes. Thank you. And the amendments, they're in.

And you concur with the changes to the amendments? As amended, yes. The motioner and the seconder have concurred. Any further discussion, commissioners? Seeing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Hearing none, motion passes. Better go buy a lottery ticket. Thank you all. All right. Item number 28. This is Lori Bailey Brown. This is to approve an ordinance of Seminole County, Florida. Seminole County, Florida repealing part two travel expenses of chapter five administration of Seminole County code of ordinance in its entirety.

Good afternoon. Lori Bailey Brown, chief financial officer and administrative services director for Seminole County. We are revising the Seminole County travel policy. And as part of that, we, Currently have the policy in the administrative code and the code of ordinances. Our goal is to have one policy that governs. The background is that originally the code of ordinances was first. The travel policy was there in 1997, a couple of years later. More detailed, the current status is that as of today on the consent agenda, the board approved a revision to that administrative code all in one place. This is part of the overall revision of the policy, removing it from the ordinance in its entirety for not to be duplicative or conflicting. So our recommendation is that approval of the ordinance repealing Part 2 travel expenses of Chapter 5 administration in the Seminole County Code of Ordinances in its entirety. Thank you very much. Is there any public comment on this item?

No, ma'am. All right. Commissioners, what is your pleasure?

Move to approve an ordinance of Seminole County, Florida, appealing Part 2 travel expense of Chapter 5 administration of Seminole County Code of Ordinances in its entirety. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Passes unanimously. Takes us to the county attorney's report. I have no report today, Chairman. Don't take this the wrong way, but that's awesome. County manager.

All right, you're going to tell me I'm awesome too if I say no report?

I will.

No report. No report, Chairman.

Because you've been busy doing other things? Budget, budget, budget, budget. All right. I'm going to move to the district commissioner's report, and I'm going to take Chairman's privilege and move Commissioner Zimbauer to the top because he was not here at the tail end of the meeting last time, so he may have more than the average to discuss. Not that that ever happens. No. And then we'll go through the rest of the order.

The good news is that I've heard nothing about the emu running wild in Geneva, so I think we're good there. We have had some livestock moving around, unfortunately, and, of course, as you all know, fires and so forth have happened out there. Of course, everybody knows that the Geneva Parade, the 4th of July Parade, was this past week, and I've asked staff to look into an issue that has arisen from that, in that we are ensuring that from a permitting standpoint, we are treating all entities equal and just, which apparently is not the case, because They were issued a permit without any insurance liability coverage, which, in my opinion, exposes the county and the taxpayers to liability in the event there's a problem. Not to mention, we require the churches and all the other civic groups to have liability policies as well. And in this case, I don't know where we're going to start having exceptions or whether we're going to decide to adopt the liability of all these entities at the taxpayer's expense, which I have zero interest in doing. So I've asked staff to look into that and come up with something that ensures that we're treating all entities equally under our code and so forth.

Mr. Tavares, would you mind if I asked a question about that? Sure. Did we not go through that and decide that that wasn't going to happen?

I thought we did, but the background that I can tell you is I was asked by the entity to inquire on their behalf to waive the requirement, which I told them I could not waive, but I would present the question to staff, and if staff thought there was an issue or possibility, it would have to go to the board. Staff said no, cannot be waived. But then... At some juncture, it was waived, and the district commissioner was never told it was waived. Right. So I ended up telling the entity it could not be waived, and unbeknownst to me, it was waived. So therein becomes the district commissioner looks like a moron because – Well, and – And that truth might be.

We're all in an e-mail chain that said we're not doing this.

And we're looking at this situation that Commissioner Zimbauer – is speaking about in fact he made what two weeks ago i think he brought it to my attention so i'm reviewing that really in this case there was there was no provider no one would insure it so that's what we had eventually found out what true or not true so we're coming up with a policy for the board to review right and my statement's been if if if there is

An entity that is unable to become insured, that within itself should tell us everything we need to know. In the meantime, we've got the sheriff's department out there running around. We've got citizens out there running around. Cars and vehicles and buggies and tractors and all those things on our streets. So that's an issue. So I wanted to make sure everybody was aware of that. And I've asked, again, staff to get to the bottom of that and then have conversation with all of us about how we prevent that from occurring. Commissioner Lockhart.

Hold on a minute. I'm still chairing. So are you bringing that back?

Yeah, I'm actually getting all the facts for this, and then I'll bring that back. And then bringing it back. Yes, and I'll talk to each individual. It's scheduled to bring back. Yes.

Commissioner Lockhart. Well, I think the cars and the people and the buggies and the horses and the tractors and all the things are great and wonderful, and to celebrate our nation's birthday is fantastic, and we all love that annual event. I think... It is remarkable to me that we can't – I'm echoing what you said. We cannot pick some and not others if the county is going to be the one holding the liability for the activity. I had a good conversation with someone from a Catholic church recently who – All Souls used to have that festival every year, right? The fall festival was huge. And they started having trouble with liability coverage, and they had to cancel the festival because of the ability to get the event insured. And I cannot see how I would be able to say to my friends at All Souls, using the, you know, not my personal friends, but, you know, our friends at All Souls, Yeah, and say, well, we're going to cover the Geneva Parade on the county's liability coverage, but we're not going to cover the all-souls. How do you determine which you would cover and which you wouldn't? I think it's a very, very slippery slope. Thank you for finding out the facts of what actually occurred and how we can be equitable moving forward. Mr. Zinbauer, back to you.

The next item that I want to bring up is an item that's been discussed on this dais a number of times, and that has to do with activity by other commissioners in a commissioner's district. And I'm not going to name any names, but what has happened is one of our faith-based leaders reached out to me some nine months ago about a property in my district that they felt should be used for affordable housing. Being the district commissioner, I gladly brought these folks into my office, had a discussion with them, went to staff and gave them all the details of what was being asked for. Staff did their due diligence, went to work, and Darren was aware of it. They went back, did all the research on the property, and spent who knows how many hours of staff time to determine that this particular piece of property could not be used for the intended purpose or desired purpose that this entity wanted to use it for. They were told that. I continued to work with them on other properties that they were looking at. And I even went as far as getting with our staff to identify through our GIS system privately owned properties and publicly owned properties that possibly could be used gave that to the realtor so the realtor could do their due diligence on behalf of the faith-based group to try to find them a piece of property. As time goes by, then I learn that this thing is starting all over again because... This particular leader reached out to another commissioner and believed or was in the perception that maybe something could be done. And then it started all back over staff, which means staff was doubling. And some of the staff members were new staff members, so they didn't necessarily know what some of the other staff members had done. So now we had duplicated processes, and in no time was the district commissioner aware that another commissioner had a conversation with somebody. And had I known that, I could have very easily said, already been down this road, here's the details, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's a problem. And as all my fellow commissioners know, and I've always said, if you have an issue or somebody from my district reaches out to you, maybe they're a friend, maybe they're a fellow church member, whatever they might be, I really don't have a problem with you all dealing with it if you've got a personal relationship with them, but at least give me the courtesy and call me and say, commissioner, somebody in your district has a problem with their sidewalks, I'm going to help them out, blah, blah, blah, great. I'll at least have it on my radar. And there's a couple reasons for that to happen. One, so I know what's going on in my district. You all got to know what's going on in your district. But also prevent this commissioner shopping that some like to do which is They're in my district. They come to me. I go to staff. We get the answers. They don't like the answer they go to Somebody else's office and start all over again, and we're all kind-hearted. We want to help We've got to come up with a plan or a policy To stop it because it just continues and it's been going on literally since I arrived here and The second year I was here, I looked at a dashboard system by OpenGov that we've never adopted, which is a dashboard that can tell all of us, including management, what's going on in the district. You don't need specifics. My aide could simply put in, Mrs. Smith at Turnbull Court has a problem with the sidewalk. We're dealing with it. That's all you would need to do. You don't need all the details and all that stuff. But staff would also be able to do that. But the commissioner would also be able to track that through the process with staff and understand where staff is with dealing with it. so that's a problem that i think we would that i would like support from my fellow commissioners to ask staff to come up with a procedure on how we stop this through interaction on a dashboard or a clearing house or something because obviously picking up the phone and having a conversation with your fellow office is not working so i i'm gonna just uh weigh in here i don't it doesn't matter what

staff comes up with if we don't actually follow it. So we've had this discussion more than once. I would tell you that I don't think it is consistently bad, but it is now cropped up again. I think the protocol is that if you're being asked to do something that is related to another commissioner's district, the first question you ask the constituent is, have you taken this anywhere else? And does your commissioner know about it? You at least can be informed as to whether or not they were told no or not, assuming there's an honest answer to that. And then the second thing is to go to the commissioner's office, either through our aides or wherever, to figure out what work has already been done on it. And I will tell you that with regard to the most recent one that was being shopped around, I did go back and inquire. I think somebody else has probably already worked on this, which is And then I have since called and said, we've got to stop doing this. So we think that one's over. But it is exceptionally disconcerting to work something in your own district and then have it crop back up again, sometimes months later, and potentially have a different answer pop out.

Well, and that's where it gets real bad. And a lot of that can be communication. So You know, it's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed, and we take care of it. And I think that if the answer is if staff has brought a problem that's not in that commissioner's district, they need to first ask questions. As long as we can rely on staff to know that and ask that question.

Yeah, that's actually a good first round as well, is that if commissioners are bringing items and another commissioner's And I think we had that agreement up here at one point. Staff is to copy us back on it.

Right.

And let me get it on the record, never on anything that we would vote on. We're not violating Sunshine. These are typically very simple, maintenance, mundane issues. Constituent needs, yeah. And research and all of that kind of stuff. That is an issue. And then before I turn it over, I don't think a dashboard with just our stuff on it makes sense. I think a constituent-issued dashboard is a bigger thing. And then it would be by district. And then you would know everything that was going on in your district. That should be where we're heading.

Right, no, agreed.

At some point, all calls should be logged. Call volume should be logged so that we know that the people that are taking these calls, what the volume is, and what the return rate is, and how long they're on the phone. how long it takes to respond to calls, all of that stuff. We just don't do that yet. Did you have anything to add, Darren?

Did you have your hand up? Please.

So we had talked about a CRM, and I don't know if we're implementing that in another department, if that's something that if there's a module that could be opened up to the other commission offices that's already existing so we're not reinventing the wheel. Did we ever buy a CRM?

Not to my knowledge, but I can follow up on that.

I think that'd be, I mean, we, years ago when I worked in the commission office, we did have, there was a, I think it was, I forget what, it was an old, something in Microsoft that they probably don't even have anymore because I haven't seen it. I mean, it was like that old. But it was probably through SharePoint. And we could keep track of what was going on in each other's districts as aides. And it was just something that the five of us shared. Because the whole county doesn't need to know all about everything that's going on all the time in the commission offices, because some of it is very, very mundane. And I'm sure that's when they turned off SharePoint, I'm sure that went away as well. It's only as good as the information that's put in it. And so that, I mean, all for it, but I think it's an us thing. We need to just communicate with one another better.

Well, Madam Chair, and Commissioner Zimba, to put full circle on this, it was Father John Blute that called me up. He asked me that piece of property you mentioned, and I says, contact your district commission, which is Commissioner Zimba. He says, I couldn't get a hold of him because you're on vacation. I says, well, if it's that important, then contact the county manager. And I got out of it at that point. That's what happened. And I've had no further discussion with him since that. I'm pretty difficult not to get a hold of. Well, I believe you're up in northern Saskatchewan.

And that was nine months after we started, and he was already told.

I'll just tell you how it got to me. And I referred it to the county manager, and I haven't done anything since then. That's why the letter went to the county manager. Okay.

Back to you.

Finish my report?

Oh, I'm sorry. Commissioner Constantine has something to add.

I guess I have to put a full circle on this.

Well, it would be our third circle.

Yeah, okay. Maybe fourth, fifth. Okay. We're elected by everybody in this county.

We are.

Sorry. And I do appreciate and understand what Commissioner Zimbauer said. And all of us have tried to do that, I think. I don't know of anybody that doesn't. I know the first thing that I do with my aid, if it comes in, If it's somebody outside of the district, you know, we all have friends. Right. And, of course, that same person contacted me and you and you. All five of us, okay? And the first thing I did was go back to Beatrice. I said, okay. He's going to come back to me, find out what this is. And that was all I did. Okay. And I think that all of us should have and probably did do the same thing. So it might have gotten more convoluted than that. And then staff said, oh, these people are asking questions and started moving on. But the fact of the matter is we can't stop constituents from in this county, with all of us, with the friendships and acknowledgements and everything else we have, not to at least find out what's going on. And I don't think you're saying that, but I'm just trying to put a ribbon on this and say, if a constituent calls me up, And I know that they have already contacted somebody else. I'm still going to contact my staff and say, find out what this is all about, because they're going to come back to me and ask me if they're anything. And I did that. And that's all I did. And I'm not saying you're accusing anybody here, but I'm just telling you, each of us handle maybe it a little different. But I'm not – there was no – I don't want us to be so concerned about something that we don't respond to constituents.

No, and that's not what I'm saying at all. But a simple call to my office would have said so-and-so on staff has already addressed this. If you feel better calling that staff member, don't take my word for it. Call that staff member. Let them reiterate what they've told me, and I'm fine with that.

And Commissioner Zimbauer, I think that's, from what I'm saying, I know my staff contacted your staff, and then to find out the information, I had my staff go ahead and call them so I knew what it was, found out what it was. He never did call me back, but if he had, I would have had the answer.

I want to thank Eagle Scout candidate Brian Morris, who led his group out at the Seminole County gun range and archery range. He put up two new target stands, range markers on the left and right boundaries to 70 yards, new picnic tables and benches, position markers, new sign for the entrance, Archery shed was completely cleaned up, mowed and trimmed, and brush was cut. Logan Smith is the older youth from the venturing crew. Max Elmer was also, or Eymer, was also involved from his troop. And Dr. Ben Eymer is the troop's current scoutmaster. And Tim Smith was Brian's former scoutmaster for many years. speaking about folks in the area. Of course, I attended the Liberty Tree celebration and congratulate the chair and vice chair for the good work they did in presentation that day and the reading. And I think that's all I have. Thank you very much.

All right. Commissioner Constantine. Thank you very much.

As you all know, there was the Florida Association of Counties meeting this past two weeks ago. Commissioner Herr, Commissioner Lockhart and I all attended. Two things that I think are very much of an interest. There is a plan of action that is associated with the League of Cities and other groups, Chamber of Commerce, hopefully the sheriffs and everyone else that are concerned about this misleading property tax initiative that are all working together. And as I said when we were all talking, the numbers seem to indicate that people are getting it and the numbers are going down. I would also tell you that there was a great presentations on growth management. Commissioner Lockhart and I were both prominently displayed in our questions to the senators and representatives that were there and quite frankly they couldn't answer our questions. One of the things that did say was they were concerned about the fact that when after all the work developers did they came here and we denied them And then I said, well, what you don't understand is if they're going by the zoning and everything else, they don't come to us. So it's only when they're asking for favors or changes that they come to us. They couldn't answer that question, or they were very, you know, really, type of thing. So that was a very, it was a great meeting and I just wanted to assure all of you that the county and others are really working. They do have, working with a number of other folks, a PAC going and they're working on, you know, just getting the information out. Also, I wanted you to know that on the 30th, the Seminole County Value Adjustment Board had its first organizational meeting, which Commissioner Delory and I were at, and we're ready to roll. And for the sake of time, that's all I got.

Oh, excuse me.

Very quickly, for those of you, last year we got in the county, got in the Florida Association of Counties calendar with an individual that was not of the staff. Everybody is open to give any of the photos and everything in this contest. And this year, it is Florida Sunsets. So it should be a really nice calendar. So anybody in the public that wishes to send in any... A seminal sunset. A seminal sunset, please do, and we can get you the information, call my office. Thank you.

Well, I do have a lot of sunset pictures on my phone, but they don't qualify. Good. Commissioner Lockhart.

One of the breakout sessions that I attended at the Florida Association of Counties Conference had to do with data centers and AI. And it was actually very, very interesting. And Steve Koontz also was in that breakout session. A lot of. differing perspectives. The place was packed. It was standing room only. It was a very good panel. I don't know where we are in terms of the investigation work that needs to be done to look at our preliminary moratorium, but I would highly recommend getting in touch with the folks that served on that panel for some differing perspectives. One elected official from South Georgia, someone from a utility from TECO, And I think most of the people who came to the breakout session were there expecting to hear the pitchforks and torches And it was actually so much more complex and contemplative than Nancy Reagan's just say no, right? The amount of forethought and really planning so many years ahead, thinking not just about what the immediate aspects might be, but what about future? decommissioning. And what do you do? So maybe you're not using fresh water out of the aquifer if you're using a recycled water system. How is that water, which will now have PFAS in it, be eliminated? I mean, they were very, very detailed, very good questions. And so I'm glad I attended that breakout session. I don't know if they recorded it or not. It would be wonderful to be able to share with you all. The other – I'm going to skip through a bunch of this stuff because we're going to repeat a lot of the same things. But one of the other things that I wanted to mention is as one of your representatives on the East Central Florida Regional Planning Council, I am leading a working group related to property insurance and affordability. There's – out of the – I forget what they called it. I'll call it the symposium that was held in Volusia County earlier in the year where there was a Jeffersonian roundtable. There was a lot of discussion about that, about resiliency and affordability. And the conversation very quickly turned, of course, in light of property tax reform. folks identifying, but you know what? In my community, the affordability is less related to property taxes and far more related to property insurance. And so, you know, you get a group of 30 elected officials and some staff members around a table and things kind of go take on a life of their own. And before we knew it, we had developed this working group. And so there's a very small number of us who are working with members in the private sector as well. to take a different look at how local government can play a positive role working with insurers and reinsurers and the legislature, members of perhaps the Office of Insurance Regulation, the insurance commissioner, to talk about how insurers view risk in a community and what it is that we do as local elected officials that either improve that risk or make that risk greater to them. And so I will continue to bring you updates. We've finished the framework that we'll be using for talking about this around the state and around the region and expanding our circle greatly. But I feel really good about the work that's being done and feel like it will actually be something that could be beneficial down the road for our communities to see improvement in the true affordability Issues. Issues, yeah. I don't know what other way to say it without saying, you know, I feel like the property tax thing kind of became a red herring because Tallahassee couldn't tackle property insurance. And so let's find something else to talk about. Oh, let's talk about this. So let's talk about the actual problem as local elected officials and tackle that issue and see what we can do to be effective there.

So before you move on from that, if there are any resources that we could lend to that group from the Highland team, we'd be happy to do that. We have property and casualty people right in our office that deal with personal lines, and then I have a fairly large network of people that we could bring to that. table in terms of expertise.

Fantastic.

And if I can, Commissioner, there has been a recent survey that Floridians, on individual Floridians, pay more for home insurance, property insurance, than they do property taxes.

Absolutely. I know that's definitely the case in our family. And just so you know, we will be going out, the Planning Council will be going out for RFP to have someone lead the... Because there needs to be some research that's done before we can actually go out and say, we think X, Y, and Z. We need to make sure that it's defendable and... The same thing that we are saying Tallahassee has not been doing is what we want to make sure that we do. We want to come at this with a very solid data, research-based perspective so that when we move forward and have findings that we want to see implemented, there's... some meat behind it. But thank you very much for sure. And then the last thing I have is that Commissioner Zempower has a birthday on Friday. So happy birthday, Commissioner Zempower. Thank you.

Is he officially historic, or do we just consider him historic?

As much as I hate to say it, the big 6-5.

Oh. Sign up for Medicare.

But it's really the new 4-5.

Get off our group plan.

It's the new 45. You guys aren't allowed to say that. I don't feel 65. Does that count? Exactly.

It's the preservation from the artificial sugar in your diet.

My grandkids call it Papa Milk.

All right. Well, with that, I will move on to Commissioner DeLaurie.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Two quick things. Metro Plan is moving forward with a working group to talk about e-bikes for Seminole, Orange, and Osceola County. And they're bringing in not just staff, but other organizations. DOT is another one of them, as well as other experts to try to get a handle on this and to make recommendations to the state and or local government as well. So as we move forward, I'll let you know more about that. As we all know, the Turnpike has the construction on the 417 from the Seminole-Orange County line all the way up to 434. There's been a number of small fender benders up and down that road. And during the construction, the road is actually narrower than normal. And the speed limit has not been reduced from 70. And over the weekend, there's been a fatality. They're still researching the cause of fatality, but it's a fatality nevertheless. And I'd like to ask our commission to actually have our staff talk to DOT about reducing the speed during the construction of that road because 70 is a little excessive, especially at night. And I didn't know if it would be appropriate for us to ask our staff to talk to Turnpike during the construction of the 417 because it's a much narrower right-of-way for the construction. to reduce speed temporarily during the construction time only.

Commissioner, at least my observation, traveling that corridor, there are flashing signs that tell you to reduce maximum speed to 60. I can tell you it says 70 every day long. I've already checked. I was just on it this afternoon. Just on the other side of the bridge, there's a flashing sign that says 60 mile an hour max.

It depends on whether there's workers present or not. So I do believe that we should, let me see if I can rephrase this to combine that. We need to find out what it is. We need to have our engineering team understand why it's posted the way it's posted. And if there are concerns on behalf of the engineers that do this all day, then we need to be lobbying for safety.

That's all I'm asking for, Madam Chair.

All right.

I'm not making a suggestion it needs to be reduced. I just want to make sure that someone's looking at it. Madam Chair, that's the end of my report.

All right. I think that brings it to me. So I did attend the memorial service for Judge John Woodard. Really well attended, standing room only. He would have been really aggravated to have that much attention. But it was wonderful to be part of that. But it's very sad to have to be part about that as well. I do have an update for you from ROM. I haven't given you one in a long time. But since January, there have been 115 people that have been placed into permanent housing, roughly 19,000 nights of shelter, and 57,000 meals served. And then they've also been working with the Office of Emergency Management with regard to heat and cold and all the stuff that we've had. And we've had a lot of it this year already. From a chairman's report perspective, I would like to extend a congratulation to Sharon Gregory, who's the public safety specialist with the Seminole County Fire Department. She was recently designated as a national certified child passenger safety technician instructor. So the instructor is the important thing. She's the only certified child passenger safety technician instructor in Seminole County. And she's a Sanford resident and has served at the fire department in the community outreach team since 2014. So we're very proud of her and very glad we have her. Other than that, I do not have anything else to report. Do you have any public comment reports? No, ma'am. Well, look at that. Hearing no other reason not to adjourn, meeting adjourned.

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