City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to tonight's Williamsport City Council meeting. Please rise for the invocation and flag salute. With Memorial Day recently passed just a few days ago, can we please take a moment and remember the brave men and women who laid down their lives in the service of our country? We thank them for our freedoms that we have because of them and the privilege to enjoy everything that we can in our lives and communities because of their courage. We also thank their families for the ultimate sacrifice that was made. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Item number three, approval of city council meeting minutes from May 14th, 2026. Could I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Any questions, comments, concerns related to the meeting minutes for approval? Seeing and hearing nothing, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dustin? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Beiter?

Yes. Motion passes 6-0. Item number four on the agenda tonight is a presentation by PFM. We've had the PFM here before for several different items, but tonight they're going to be talking to us about debt service.

I can't tell that I turned it off. There we go. Some places have them where it's green when it's on. It's wonderful to be in front of you today. My name is Melissa Mays. And as council president introduced us, I'm here from the part of PFM that works with the debt issuance process. I have a handout in front of you. It's a lot of pages, but I'm only going to talk about a few of them. But we are going to start on page number two, which is right on the inside front cover. So you're familiar with my colleagues, Gordon Mann and Lauren Suckovich. Page two is a graphic of what we do at PFM. So you've experienced working with them through the STAMP program and a five-year planning engagement. And also I understand there's an item on the agenda later to consider another scope of work with their side of the team. What my side of the team does is we provide municipal advisory services. So we work with local governments through the debt issuance process. And you might be thinking to yourself, I'm not going to issue debt today, right? And that's right. But it takes a long time to go through that process. And planning starts many years in advance, oftentimes. And you actually have some bonds that you have outstanding right now, a series of 2017 bonds, which you'll have the opportunity to refinance next year, early next year. And when you refinance, you just take old higher rates and replace them with new lower rates. So as you move out the yield curve. And so that's kind of why we're here today is to hopefully begin working with the city in preparation for being able to do that. And in helping you through long range capital planning process for whatever capital needs you might have. So what is an independent municipal advisor? If you wanna flip to the next page, this is a graphic about how we serve our clients. So my role is a regulated role by the MSRB, which is one of the big federal regulators. And we have a legal fiduciary responsibility to put you as the city, your financial interests first. So whenever you issue debt, whether it's refinancing or doing capital projects, You're going to work with lawyers. You're going to work with a bank. Sometimes the bank is a local bank, like a Citizens in Northern or an M&T bank. And sometimes it's an investment bank, like a JP Morgan or a Raymond James. But they have interests that are different than what your interests are. They want higher rates and more stringent terms and conditions. You want more flexible terms and conditions and lower interest rates. And our job is to make sure that you're getting the best deal that's available in the market at that time. And how we do that is we're in the market a lot. So we've done three bond issuances this week. And that's what you see. If you want to skip to page five, because you care that we do lots of bond deals nationally, but you really care that we have a lot of Pennsylvania experience. And so that's what this kind of shows. So on the left-hand side of the page, this gives you a sense of how many transactions we did last year in 2025, comparing us to other municipal advisors in Pennsylvania. And you can see we did about 121 transactions or $6.7 billion. And that time in the market is what really gives us a lot of information to bring to bear on your behalf. You probably haven't heard of too many of the firms on the left-hand side of the page, but if you look at the right-hand side of the page, those are going to be more household names. Those are the underwriters, and you can see that we've done more transactions by volume and by number of transactions than any of the firms that you may have heard of. You're going to need a banker underwriter anytime you come to market, but they have interests that are different than yours. So something that I personally specialize in is helping issuers who don't currently have a credit rating kind of get back into the market. And that process typically takes a little bit of time to develop a plan and a strategy about how you communicate that. So I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. could talk about every page, but I don't want to belabor the point.

So the first question that I'll ask is on the last point that you just made about reentering the credit market. Is there something that we need to be aware of about us going back into the credit market? I know that we had some trouble with not having audits done for a few years.

So in general, when you – so just a little bit of background to everybody. You have historically had a credit rating, and then it was withdrawn for lack of financial information because you didn't have audits for a number of years. And so when you get your credit rating withdrawn, typically there's some strategy about how you go back to the market. There are two different credit rating providers. There's really three, but two real ones in general. for Pennsylvania local governments like the city. There's some strategy about when you go back to them, what the message looks like, and which one you pick. Got it. You're like, I have so many questions.

Just waiting. Liz Mealy.

Okay. Actually, I don't have an absolute ton of questions. But my understanding about this contract is that it's basically meant to help us move toward possibly reissuing our old debt as well as taking on new debt. And I presume that a part of your services will be advisory. That is to say, This is the amount of debt that it is wise to take on. I know that the one question that I asked Jamie in our most recent meeting was, we are obviously at the recommendation of PFM and therefore the state pursuing pursuing a home rule charter in the city of Williamsport, which we know would impact our ability to obviously afford debt moving forward as well as to afford other things. Is there a way for PFM to extrapolate to a future in which we are a home rule municipality and are not a home rule municipality in terms of looking at the level of debt that it would be wise for us to take on in both of those scenarios? Yes. Okay.

Yes, asterisk. Can I say a little bit more if that's okay? I mean, there are a lot of variables. That's why I'm curious as to whether that's a possibility. I think how I would approach the question with you, and it's different than you might approach the question with Gordon, and we can get some involvement from both sides. But how I approach the question from our lens is on more of an absolute numbers basis, right? Under a certain set of assumptions, say... You know, you have about $1.5 million in your current budget for your current general fund budget for debt service. Your actual debt service is a little bit more because some of it's paid out of other funds or you do inter-fund transfers to pay some of it. So, okay, if we say that we need to keep the debt service budget at $1.5 million, how much project can we afford?

Mm-hmm.

And then what kind of project? Because if you build something new, you can finance it over a longer term than if you're renovating something. And different kinds of renovations allow for different financing terms. Got it. And then we might do a sensitivity on R8. 1.5 million isn't maybe going to build you enough building or renovate enough building. What if we did $2 million, you know, and that's the kind of sensitivity analysis we could work through. Got it. And then we, and then there's the overlying layer of like, how does that play into home role?

Got it. And so since I missed the, the kind of introduction to this, and I apologize for talking to me about the length of your engagement and, um, to what extent we are city council members will be participating in your contract and to what extent we'll make requests of Jamie in terms of, right.

Yeah. So typically with our issuer clients, our con our contracts on my side of the house are what we call evergreen contracts, um, where you, you know, how we have a contract in place and you, or, you know, normally would come through Jamie, um, You call us up and say, hey, we want to look at financing this project. What does that look like? And then we typically engage with the administration first. And then before you actually agree to do anything, I will come back to counsel for a presentation.

Right. Well, obviously, we would need to be a part of any actual issuance of that. Yeah.

But even before you actually get to the issuance process. Usually there would be a presentation in advance of that. And sometimes a couple times, depending on how many.

Understood. And so what is our specific project in this instance?

So in this instance, I think what kind of kicked this off was, you know, both discussion with Gordon. And then also you have a refinancing that you can do next. Well, it's next summer in 2017.

OK, so it's just a question of whether to take on additional. It's not it's not specifically project driven at this point.

No, at least not as I understand it.

I know you guys are having we've discussed a couple of projects, but I wasn't sure whether you were on whether we were becoming involved with PFM again as a result of a specific project or just.

I think we're going to have those conversations from what I understand, like fairly early on. But it is not my understanding, unless I'm corrected, that we're going to go to issue debt tomorrow. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Well, we can't until 2027, right? So we're not doing it tomorrow. Well, I guess we could if we weren't trying to refinance our existing debt. But I don't think we're looking at anything that... This is more like...

Coming back to market when you don't have a credit rating takes longer. Just period. It takes longer because there's just more strategy to it. And then also if you are starting those conversations about affordability, then we're on board to assist that discussion.

And talk to me a little bit about if it takes longer, I presume it also costs more.

Sometimes, but not necessarily. We... Mutually agree on a fee once we know what we're going to do. And it's based on the size of the issue, the complexity of what we're doing. So we can work on something for a fairly long time. But ultimately, what we do is pretty simple. That's less expensive. Then we could do something that is fairly simple. a tight time compacted, but it's extremely complicated and that would be more expensive. Got it. You know, in general for a fairly straightforward transaction, our fees are in the $30,000 range. Okay.

Got it. And they are amortized across the life of the way.

They're paid out of the transaction.

Right, right, right. You don't owe us anything. Intrinsically, yeah. But we do receive some sort of summary of the fees, just so that we can, right? Yes. I don't think we need to belabor this any further, but if you wouldn't mind, Jamie, I'd appreciate being in on some of the conversations, just because I'm kind of curious about the complexity of the, how complex these transactions can get, and sort of what specifics are proposed. That's more of a learning curve for me than anything else. I'm just, I want to be like, so what can you do? But nobody else wants to know, so...

A lot of things. I think what I understand here is in the medium amount of complexity, right? The very simplest thing would be to just do the refinancing. And then if you have other capital needs, the level of complexity, the sky's the limit.

Right. Now, would you also be involved if we received... grant funding that we were matching with city borrowed funds, things like that.

Yeah, we would help you talk about how to strategize around that. And I would say most projects I'm working on anymore are a combination of different sources of funds. Excellent. Thank you. Thanks, Eric.

Thank you for the presentation and welcome, obviously. Real quick, going back on what was said earlier, obviously, you know that our rating had been withdrawn because of, you know, for lack of financial documentation. You said there's going to be some challenges for us coming back into the market. Are you able to speak to what some of the challenges might be and kind of give us a little bit of an idea on a timeline?

Yes. So in general, the challenge is one of perception, right? You... haven't provided the market historically what it's expected of you. And you've done a really good job of getting caught up. And so it's how do you message it back to the market essentially via the rating agency, right? We've got things cleaned up. We will be good financial stewards, both of our actual resources and of our documentation going forward. And then kind of selling that message in a way that makes sense and that they understand and take that on board. So that's what the challenge is. And then in terms of timeline, In general, unless council or the administration has strong feelings otherwise, it is PFM's current thinking that it is best to go reinstate a rating. kind of in conjunction with doing a transaction. We could go to a credit rating agency and say, we'd like to just get a credit rating, but you then pay for that on a standalone basis. And if we don't issue debt within 180 days, you'll basically pay two fees. And so we just generally don't think that that makes sense to do. But the process, and I'm actually going through it like Today, with another issue in Pennsylvania, the process that we would propose is to go get an indicative rating. So that's like a private rating that's not public. Get that first, see what that looks like, and then assuming it has the results that we expect, then we can translate that into a public rating.

Okay. Because I was curious as the circumstances in which we're entering the market again, how that might impact the rates that would be presented.

Yes. So in general, credit ratings, better credit ratings result in lower interest rates, just like better credit scores get lower interest rates. So the more, it's a balance, the more time you give yourself from the historic fact pattern, the more credibility you get. And you're going to have an opportunity to get at least one more audit in place before you'd be considering entering the market, which is a good thing.

Thank you.

Yes.

Seeing and hearing no other questions.

Thank you.

Greatly appreciate being here. Greatly appreciate the education.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you as well. Move on to item number five, limited courtesy of the floor. I believe we've had no requests this evening. So then we will move on to item number six, please.

An ordinance of the city of Williamsport amending article 753 of the codified ordinances of the city of Williamsport known as the city of Williamsport curfew ordinance to modify the curfew hours to minors and to modify certain penalties. And this was tabled last meeting.

So right now we need a motion to remove this from the table. Seeing and hearing no motion to remove this from the table, we will move on then to item number seven.

An ordinance amending Article 902 of the Codified Ordinances of the City of Williamsport relating to brick streets from those to be presented under the ordinance in final reading.

Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

Mr. Scott, how are you this evening? Great. Good evening, Council President Beiter, members of council. So this is the second reading of the ordinance to remove a couple of brick streets from the brick street ordinance. Just a reminder, those streets are First Street between Campbell Street and Walnut Street and Wayne Avenue between West 4th Street and Hillside Avenue. We had a discussion last week. I mentioned a cost estimate from PennDOT to totally reconstruct First Street and that block, and it's pushing half a million dollars in comparison to repay that was about $70,000. And Wayne Avenue would be very similar in cost.

We did discuss this in depth at the last meeting. Is there anything that anybody else would like to bring up? regarding the ordinance in front of us. Dr. Yoder.

Yeah, so I had, between readings, I had a resident from Newberry reach out expressing some hope that we might reconsider WNAV. And I gave it some thought, and I apologize, Bill. I didn't talk to you. I did talk to Scott Livermore.

Yeah, he mentioned it.

Okay, gotcha. Just about the concept of maybe looking at some little bit of compromise on can we pave the crosswalk sections to improve accessibility and to make it safer in the wintertime specifically. Those were really the two big things I know that the school district can mention. And notably, the accessibility portion was raised two weeks ago and very valid and letting the rest remain. And another important piece of the discussion with Bill Scott, and I think it's a very important one. We, in my time, have slowly removed pockets of them here and there. And a big part of that is really we've had no solid funding strategy to keep them up and redo them. I've grown to find value in them. I think it's a little bit of a part that makes us just a bit unique. I think that there are more residents that live on Brook Streets that want them than we probably realize. I'm not saying they're in the majority. But I do think it would be wise of us to... take a look at this ordinance comprehensively and notably think about how do we maintain them long term? What funding streams are out there that we may be able to capture to harness these and utilize these better? And notably, what can we actually maintain? Like, what is realistic? It may be that we have to streamline and remove some, but I think it would be really good to do that with the context of understanding what we can actually swing and afford to maintain. And so with that kind of context, I think we, and I hope we have that conversation. And with the context of doing that, I'd rather preserve these where we can, um, before having that in the event that we find, Hey, we can save these. And we find that there are more residents in Newberry that want to keep these only have as well. So, um, wanted to throw that out there. I'm prepared to make an amendment to, um, Reflect that if people are okay with that, we can have some discussion on it as well beforehand. It's up to the group, but.

Liz Mealy, um, I, of course, share concerns about preserving big brick streets and I, I do, I would second to the idea that we should, um. create some sort of a constructive approach to brick streets because that was missing out of our original ordinance. I think that all it really mandates is that we keep $50,000 annually in the budget, which isn't enough to maintain the brick streets and often isn't even enough to really seal them in such a way that you can make an easy transition from brick to asphalt and back. That said, I did drive... In the interim two weeks here, I drove the streets that we're discussing and, frankly, didn't find it to be in a whole lot worse shape than a lot of our streets. So, you know, and, you know, then a lot of streets around the multi-meters pole area. It's not just Williamsport that has streets that can be a little ragged. Yeah. So I would definitely support removing this, especially since it comes at the request of someone from the neighborhood, which I had sort of presumed that it was something that wouldn't be supported. But if neighbors care about the street, then I think that we have a bit of an obligation to maintain that as a component of their neighborhood policy. After all, it was protected by ordinance and they don't have any reason to think that it would, you know what I mean? This would be the first notification they'd had that we were looking to do something about it. So I would, I don't know, Adam, do you have a kind of a follow-up like that is to say, and this is how we're going to tackle looking at funding or looking at securing grant funding?

I don't know. I mean, I think, you know, I think that's a lot larger of a, I won't say effort, but like conversation. I think, you know, clearly, you You and the public works team and Melanie, I think, really need to be a part of that to help us understand what's realistic, what's actually out there, is there stuff out there. I frankly think we should engage parts of the community in that and ensure that we're getting good community dialogue to understand what actually is the appetite to preserve them or not. Yeah. I think I think this is reflective of a community character thing that could very well impact community character and I want to really work to preserve that one way or the other. Right. So I don't really have a concrete to be candid with you strategy of what that might look like. I know it needs to happen and I'd be happy to be a part of it. In the short term, I simply think amending it to limit where we're paving to kind of find some compromise and preserve a lot of the street is a good move today.

And Adam, am I wrong? Weren't you talking, wasn't the discussion a concrete crosswalk basically laid over the brick as not a paved section?

I had talked to Scott Livermore about, hey, can we just, you know, do something to either pave over where the crosswalks are? Or I didn't get into specifics to be candid about, you know, is it concrete underneath like that kind of thing? What I was primarily concerned about with Scott was, If we would make this change, is it going to create some major operational issue for you? Is it going to be a really big burden on the folks at Public Works, that kind of thing? And he's like, no. I mean, we could figure out a pretty good solution fairly easily. It's nothing that he would lose sleep over by any means. His bigger concern is, frankly, the long term. How are we either preserving these, funding these to save them? That's the bigger thing that, I mean, none of us have answers to today. That's the big question for him. And that's what he is really concerned about. So.

Mr. Mackey.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not have some outreach from the school district about this road? Okay. And their concerns were what we talked about two weeks ago.

Safety.

So my question is, does the school district's opinion not trump the opinion of a handful of Newberry residents? I mean, we're now saying that we're going to ignore the school district's requests to improve this street for safety purposes because a few residents reached out to us and that their concerns are more valid than the school district's.

so um when the feedback that i recall from the school district and please if i'm missing something somebody correct me their concerns were primarily safety accessibility right um so in my mind if we address the crosswalk sections where students should be crossing that should eliminate the safety and accessibility concerns specifically and to be candid um you know If there are additional sections near the school district that would make it easier for students to get across here and there to incorporate another crosswalk, if we could pull that off, I think that'd be a great idea. But at the same token, I don't know that we are going to want students just walking across the street anywhere they want right beside a school and a residential neighborhood, right? So I frankly think, to Liz's point, There is a safety element of having the brick streets there from driving up back and forth, that kind of thing. So in my mind, I hope that this would find a middle ground to incorporate the legitimate safety concerns that the school district brought forward and buying us some time to think about a long term solution, not just for this street, but for brick streets in general. Right. That's the root of this. Yeah.

i'm not disagreeing with your concerns but i'm hoping that this is a way to listen to and validate their feedback um on both sides of it um i guess i just want to say that um the school district had safety concerns um i'm reading from an email um So primary concern, student safety. Additionally, a concrete span along the west curb. This is Wayne half we're talking about. Additionally, a concrete span along the west curb extends approximately two feet into the roadway. Because some vehicles do not park on the surface, travel lanes are narrowed. So it contributes to congestion and complicates traffic flow during peak arrival and dismissal times. Snow removal can be difficult. Heavy bus and transit traffic, the combination of heavy bus traffic, narrowed roadway conditions, and brick surface irregularities increase wear on the roadway and presents operational challenges that are not consistent with the primary school zone. I guess I just, I, where I land on this, I appreciate, you know, you, you bring in the concerns of somebody connected with, and I think that's exactly what we should be doing. But I think about ADA considerations, accessibility on the crosswalk, but also outside the crosswalk. I think about the congestion and I am no expert on paving or brick road maintenance, but it, In my mind, it just seems like it's time for some nice asphalt.

Bill, can you answer me a question? I mean, I know we don't have a study or anything like that, but would the pavement address the congestion concern from like street parking that they're referencing much at all in your in your

Possibly, I don't know specifically what you're talking about, but if the curb or something's messed up. I drove it today, you know, and it's really, there's some sunken areas. It's really sunk. And that's what they're talking about along the curb. That needs rebuilt. Not just paving. That's a full reconstruction.

Paving or not, it needs rebuilt.

And that's where your cost comes in. And you have to reconstruct these brick streets. It's just labor intensive.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is the plan to reconstruct them if we're authorizing paving it this time?

Isolated base repairs. We would do just in spots. And then we'd pave over the brick. We're not ripping up the whole street and rebuilding it. Right. That would be a really expensive cost.

Bill, do we know how many streets are left in the city that are still brick?

Maybe five.

I actually brought the... The brick street ordinance, just some real quick math. It's like 12 or 13 streets. I have the list right here.

I mean, we're not talking four streets though, right? That's like the intercept.

There's like 12 total according to the ordinance.

But most of them are just... What's that? Most of them are segments. It's not as though we... I think Rural Ave is the only lengthy stretch of actual Brick Street that we have in the city. There's a network of them kind of above Little League.

They're small areas you might not even realize, like Trinity Place between Nichols Place and West Horse Street and Brandon Place between Franklin and St. Boniface Street. It's little areas like that you might not even realize. But, you know, Fifth Avenue between Park Avenue and Rural, we all know that one. Rural Ave, like you mentioned... Harris Place between Hepburn Street and Marcus Street. And, of course, Bieber, Oliver, and West 4th we talked about.

I would guess in total we have less than half a mile of Brick Street probably in the city, right?

I mean, a couple of them are full-length blocks, but, yeah. I don't know. Mile, maybe? Well, Royal's long. Yeah, Royal's pretty long. Yeah, Royal's pretty long. Even Fifth Avenue is a good section. Yeah. Yeah.

I just pulled up a picture here out of curiosity Wayne Ave on Google Maps and down by the intersection of 4th Street there was a repair job done and I drive by it when I take my kids to and from school events and things like that but I just haven't noticed it we had put asphalt over top of the brick as you approach the south side of Wayne Ave to come to the light at 4th Street. Clearly, we need a plan. What my opinion is on this, I am going to agree with John and Jonah. Until we come up with a plan for these brick streets, I don't think we should be, especially with the school district and the concern that they have, uh, be messing around at this point. Uh, I, and I, I appreciate the residents can certainly very much. So, um, obviously it's a lot of charm. And a few years ago when this conversation came up initially, uh, there were some residents on rural lab that went around and got petitions signed. I believe every resident on rural lab probably signed that petition. I can't remember the number at this time of who wanted to maintain that brick street. But again, without a plan, I think we just put ourselves further behind the eight ball and, um, We just, we can't afford to do that.

Yeah, 1 question I have is to. Is this to redo all the Wayne where all the bricks are just in front of the school.

The whole brick section from, um, it starts right above 4 street and goes up to hillside. Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, do we want to consider. taking it out by the school, but keeping the other two blocks stretch. Seems like that's also a middle ground.

Yeah, I mean, it's like, look, personally, like, I'm on board preserving some of it. I don't know if there's consensus to do that, but Liz, if you make a motion for one, I'll second it. I can make mine. We can vote on something and then close the debate. I don't know that these brick streets are going to be preserved, to be candid, but if we want to go through an action, we can do that. Your call, Liz.

I mean, I'm not sure. To what extent is it in our budget anyway, Scott, to redo the whole thing when it sounds like the section by the school is in pretty rough shape versus... Like I said, it's a half million on First Street, just for comparison. No, no, no. I mean, I'm not talking about redo the brick. I'm talking about do we even have this in our budget to pave the entire thing, including the base repair?

It's not on this year's list, but it could be the future.

At the Ilaris, we'd probably do it next year is what you're saying. Yeah, right.

Then is there a reason why we're moving on this now anyway? guess what i'm saying is if we're not planning to deal with it this year could we remove this street from the ordinance and bring it back when we have a plan to deal with it because i got the opinion i got the impression right adam that scott could do the crosswalks sooner than that so we could actually improve things for the school district in this year's paving session

Bill, do you have the flexibility to do crosswalks in the paving contract this year? Again, I didn't ask him if he could do that this year. Honestly, I had assumed that it was something that was going to be in the contract this year if they were taking it off. But shame on me for that.

It's almost too late. We haven't put out the liquid fuels paving contract yet, so we could take a look at that. Okay.

I'm just asking, because it seems like if we're taking an action that really isn't going to come to fruition in any way until next year, and we've got a school district expressing concern, and it looks like most of us are willing to act on that, but we've also got residents expressing concern, then if we leave it on the brick streets ordinance for right now, and we come back when we're actually looking to pave it, or if we say in this case that we're allowing paved crosswalks on the street, and we try to work it into this year's paving budget, That actually satisfies the school districts concerns more than as many as as much as they're going to be satisfied this year. Right? Exactly. And I would. In many ways, especially if we have concern from the neighbors prefer to try to. If we, if we've got a year until anything's happening, try to limit our exposure on that street for the time being and. Come back when we need to deal with it.

If I may jump in here real quick, I have a little bit of background in history with construction. And when you raise concerns about the financial ability to do something like this, You know, the best approach is always come in and get it done in one clip. Otherwise, you're paying a construction company to mope in and mope out, and you're going to do it several times, and it can get quite costly. Myself, I've had to sign six-figure change orders just for moping equipment in and out.

So we're not proposing to touch the street at all, then, is what you're saying?

No, I'm actually proposing the exact opposite. I'm in agreement right now with Councilman Mackey and Milliken and Beiter right now that I'm in favor of paving over the entire street.

But it's not going to happen this year one way or the other.

I understand. But to try and piecemeal it together and say, well, let's do a little bit here and then do a little bit here and come back to it and everything, it's just going to be even more costly. And I understand and I appreciate, Liz, where you want to try and save some of the historic nature of the city with the brick streets. they're still around. It's been over 100 years. I get it. I'm just thinking right now about the financial impact and then also weighing in the consideration again with the school and the safety purposes.

So how about this? So they're not paving over the brick street this year, right? So, Bill, could you make a good effort to try to pave over the crosswalks in this paving contract that would get us ahead and satisfy some of the school district's concerns and then honestly, before it gets paved over, let's see how it works. And frankly, we have a year to see if we can find some long-term strategy to fund brick street repair, et cetera, et cetera. And if we can, we can come back and put the street back in. I mean, this is the way it's written, right? So Bill, is that at least in the short term on the crosswalk concept, is that something you're able to, See if it's feasible and it can be fit into the paving contract.

Yeah, I'll take a look to see if it is feasible, first of all. Like I said, it's not out to bid yet, so we don't have time to do that. Understood.

I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm no construction expert here. But, you know, you look at this lower section here towards 4th Street, where it appeared like it was paved at one point. And there appears to be some sort of concrete divider between the paving and the brick. So my question is... we're just going to slap down some asphalt or blacktop over the bricks. I mean, that's not going to hold up. That's going to be gone in six months. So, I mean, what are we, what are we talking about here? I mean, Adam, this is kind of reminiscent of, it feels like, you know, you and I drove around the historic district a few years ago and we, we, we drove around the historic district and we ask ourselves, why is this historic district? Why is this section of town still in the historic district? Right. That kind of feels like that. You know, it's I get it. I get it. But we cannot spend William Sports money because a few people want to see Brick Street's when they walk their dogs down the street, right? Like we can't, that's not responsible. Okay. And that, and quite honestly, and I know some of you aren't going to agree with me on this, but that's why, that's why we still have city hall sitting over here, right? We were ready to sell city hall and we had what 0.5% of the population of Williamsport come in here and yell at us. And we're still sitting on city hall. This is kind of what that feels like. Like We have to we have to move forward here. We can't you know, we have a school district telling us this is a problem and we're going to address it. And then all of a sudden, a couple of people call us and now we're going to now, you know, it's just it's it's frustrating. It really is. And I get it. But we can't we can't let. the extreme minority of Williamsport dictate how we're spending taxpayer dollars. Right. And if we want to spend the time to go out and find funding streams for things, I think there's that we, that time can be spent better. Let's go out and find a funding stream to, to, find ourselves somewhere to go you know i mean like what are we talking about here we're talking about a section of brick street that the school district says is a problem that destroys our plows destroys trucks right like let's just right i'm we still have brick streets they're still there john you got some valid points all i'm gonna say is so

school district issues are not getting resolved this year frankly without any kind of interim solution on a crosswalk concept right um so frankly the i'm happy i brought this up right so um if we really want to solve the the school district's concerns we actually should look at this concept in this paving contract right because it at least gets us a little bit there because bill said We don't have this street in there this year. We might be able to do that concept and start to alleviate these concerns sooner. So from a safety perspective, this concept is a really good idea. And I think just broadly like this. I mean, the street's going to get taken off off of the ordinance. Right. So, I mean, that is what it is. That's fine. But I think the more important aspect of. Um, also why I brought this up was like, look, yes, one resident reached out to me. Um, that is one resident that we, um, generally one more than we generally hear from on anything.

Right.

Um, and I mean, look, same thing on city hall. I get it. We had a man, what a dozen or so, and that is not representative of the population whatsoever, but, um, Right or wrong, I think, you know, again, within a two-week period, let's listen. Let's see if something makes sense. And frankly, again, in the dialogue that I learned today, I'm frankly glad that I did look into it a little bit because otherwise we have a better opportunity to address some of the school district's concerns in pedestrian safety and school safety. simply by the dialogue here that otherwise wouldn't have gone address. So it's a, it's a good thing, right? It's a good thing. That's, that's, that's kind of where I'll leave it.

So, so it sounds like we need a motion that if we're going to be changing anything, I don't think we, I don't think we are.

I don't think we are changing. You don't want to change anything. Okay. I mean, I'm happy to do that and go through the rigmarole, but I don't know that it's going to pass. And so what's the point?

No, it's okay. There was a lot that was being said. So I just wanted to make sure that there was nothing on the, anybody's mind in that regard. So yeah, Sounds like we need a plan and we got a year. We got a year. So seeing, hearing, nothing else. Mrs. Frank.

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan.

Yes.

Mr. Mackey.

Yes.

Mr. Dessigan.

Yes.

Ms. Mealy. No. Mr. Palizzi.

Yes.

Mr. Beiter.

Yes. Motion passes 6-1. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll move to item number eight, please.

Resolution authorizing a merchant agreement between the City of Williamsport and All Paid Incorporated.

Could I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Mr. Welderhoff, how are you this evening?

How are you?

Very well, thank you. Good evening, Council.

So I bring before you a motion for a resolution to basically change our credit card vendor. we currently have within the treasurer's office an outfit by Value Pay Systems, and that contract was engaged between the city and Value Pay Systems all the way back in 2015. So, Coming into the office, we had some issues with we only can take credit card payments or the ECH, ACH, our debit cards online. And that would only be for our real estate collection, the real estate taxes, whether that be for the municipal or the Williamsport School District on those real estate taxes. Ideally, what we would like to do, and we've had many discussions, Citizens come in, they want to pay in the office with their credit card, with their debit card. Some even want to pay over the phone. Currently, the people that we have were not able to meet the needs that we had in a timely manner, which was. We did try to stick with them. So I had gone out and I had spoken with about four or five different vendors. And it seems Allpay is going to be the vendor that's going to be able to work with us the best. They actually came recommended by one of the software program companies that we use already that interfaces with our online usage of our software. real estate transactions. So that was the most important. What this is also gonna do is this is gonna allow us to also take online payments for our mercantile business tax and any other taxes, future taxes that may come on the office, in the office, online, and then also over the phone. This entity is going to hopefully get us the credit card terminal within our office within the next two to three weeks, which I know that there is a lot of business owners and a lot of residents that are looking forward to having that. I have to say there's probably been about 100 people that have come into the office since I've taken over that has asked to pay with a credit card and leave very disappointed. So the increase, because... There's going to be an increase in some of the fees, which won't be attributed to the city at all. It's going to be increases that are going to be attributed to the actual people with the card. And they're going to be minimal. We currently, if you review a card transaction online, it was 2.45%. It's going to increase 2.95% with the new vendor. For the ACHs, it's going to go to a $3.99 versus the $2.50 that it was for those transactions. And this just shows a reflection of how the market is. 15 years ago, it was a lot different. Now we have more online usage with credit cards and credit card debt that's increasing, so there's more costs that are passed along. This, however, was the lowest rates that I could find with a vendor that was going to be able to fulfill the needs that we have. Our current vendor just is not able to fulfill the needs that we have. So I am asking for you guys to vote positively for the resolution so we can enter into a contract with all paid.

When do you plan to have this take effect? You said the machine would come in a couple of weeks, but when will they start processing online payments? Cause we have, um, taxes that are due up until.

So what we're going to do is we're going to do a phase out process. We currently have the, our real estate tax bills for the city, uh, advertised on the bill with our, with our current system. So we're going to do a phase in phase out. Um, if we were to pass this tonight and get everyone to sign the contracts, uh, theoretically we would be able with the school bill to go ahead and start using, um, the new merchant for the school real estate taxes that would come out in the beginning of July. Okay.

Any questions from members of council? Seeing and hearing none, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger?

Yes.

Ms. Mealy? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Reiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much, Mr. Roth. Thank you, Mr. Penzel. Move to item number nine, please.

Resolution authorizing an engagement letter with PMF Financial Advisors LLC for Municipal Advisory Services.

Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Ms. Livermore, how are you?

Good. How are you?

Very well, thank you.

Good evening, counsel. This is a resolution to engage with PFM for the services that we discussed earlier for debt service. We went through a presentation. I don't know if you guys have any questions. This is just basically the contract to engage with PFM for the presentation that they had, so.

Are there any questions from members of council regarding the contract? Seeing and hearing none, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger?

Yes.

Ms. Mealy? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Beiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll move to item number 10, please.

Resolution authorizing an intergovernmental agreement between the city and borough of South Williamsport.

Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Mr. Williams, how are you this evening? I'm great.

How are you all doing?

Very well, thank you.

It's nice to finally have some nice weather, right?

It's too hot for me.

So as you all know, we have been absolutely rocking and rolling with our levee repair efforts funded out of our $8 million federal earmark. So that earmark was awarded in federal fiscal year 23. But we also have a second fiscal year 24 year mark that's coming now. That was awarded in 23 as you'll recall, we didn't have our grant agreement in place until the very end of 2025. So, we're on a similar timeline with FEMA and Pema getting the grant agreement with the 24 award in the amount of 3.5M dollars. So the work that's described by that $3.5 million earmark is partially in the city and partially in South Williamsport. So we are the recipient and our levy system is accredited as a whole as a system. So it's in our interest to move ahead since we have all the momentum and we have the team together to administer the $8 million. this agreement gives us the ability to roll the administration of the 3.5 earmark in with the one we're already doing so we can seamlessly administer the entire project wonderful oh and this was already approved by south windsport borough council so i see their signatures on the contract already so um we appreciate all your hard hard work on this it is not a small task and you have

the experience to help push us along and you have the experience of dealing with it from the county perspective as well from a past life. So again, we appreciate all the hard work. Are there any questions from members of council? Seeing and hearing none, Mrs. Frank.

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan.

Yes.

Mr. Mackey.

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger.

Yes.

Ms. Bailey. Yes. Mr. Palizzi.

Yes.

Mr. Beiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much. We'll move to item number 11, please.

Resolution authorizing the filing of Greenways Trails and Recreation Program grant to execute all documents.

Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

Good evening. Before you is a resolution that is designating the mayor and myself as authorized signers to file a request for Greenways Trails and Recreation Program funds. We are applying for $250,000 for the third and final payment to Moscow for the lights at Bowman Field.

Mayor, if I can ask you a quick question about those lights at Bowman Field as you're running around. If you could just give us a quick status update, because I assume you're going to have some very good news to tell us.

Sure. Just got word today that they should be turned on tomorrow. pending any unforeseen. So they're going to turn them on tomorrow, test all of them. All the polls are in place. They got finalized this afternoon from understanding when I talked to Scott, Musco did an unbelievable job in a couple of weeks to get those up. They prioritized William sports. I, all the credit goes to Musco. Bill's glad if he's still, I think he took off, but Bill and Scott Livermore and Musco. cross cutters everybody just came together and made it happen so we are extremely fortunate the weather cooperated of course the last few days that they could set the poles uh and so they're going to turn them on tomorrow and test them it's wonderful to be in place for the cutters which is june second second i think yeah so yeah so it is good news yeah it was but kudos to muscoe brought the manpower here and expedited us to the top of the list and got it done. And we're extremely appreciative for that, obviously.

And obviously, we appreciate everything that our state legislatures have done, specifically Senator Yaw and Representative Jamie Flick, as they continue to help us with our efforts to improve Bowman Field for the MLB Classic. Are there any questions regarding this item from members of council? Seeing and hearing none, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger?

Yes.

Ms. Mealy? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Reiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much. We'll move to item number 12, please.

Resolution authorizing an agreement with PNF Group Consulting LLC Services Related to Fire Services.

Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Chief, how are you this evening?

Good. Uh, President buyer council members, uh, this agreement, uh, is to work on a plan for our current and future regionalization efforts. Uh, we want to try to have a. I want to be proactive and not reactive. So if someone else approaches us, we have a plan on how we can implement that and move forward. The plan is not to exceed $5,000. And we're looking at the contract was maximum of one year, but we can terminate at any time by written notice. The results were looking 2 months. Roughly to have something back to give us some numbers moving forward. If any other communities want to work with us that we can go that forward.

We did discuss this at our committee meeting, so I'll open it to the floor to any members if they do have questions.

Thank you chief for bringing this appreciate it. Just so I understand this. Clearly that this is a. what you're looking for is this agreement for this analysis is for us to have the numbers that way if we want to approach neighboring boroughs or municipalities as far as looking at retaining our services for fire. Is that correct?

Correct. So an example is the agreement we made last year with South Williamsport Borough. If another one of those opportunities would arise, we would have some kind of numbers to go off to start with right away.

Absolutely. I just wanted to make sure it was clear. Thank you.

And the only thing that I'll add from the meeting, you had discussed how this was going to get paid for, and you said it was going to be out of your contracted service. Correct.

This is a contract of services out of the fire department budget.

Appreciate you being proactive. Seeing and hearing nothing else, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger?

Yes.

Ms. Mealy? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Beiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you, counsel. Thank you as well. We'll move to item number 13, please, which is a subdivision of 205 Locust Street. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

We've got a new face here this evening. Good evening, council members, President Beater, council members, Ms. Mealy, my name's Phil Proud. We haven't had a chance to meet, but it's been a pleasure meeting everybody else so far. This application before you is a subdivision, more specifically a lot addition between Radiant Steel Products Company and Stamen Real Estate Holdings, subdivision of proposed lot number one from the parcel owned by Stamen Real Estate uh is going to be incorporated into parcel 65-007-326 did receive a favorable recommendation at the may 4th 2026 planning commission meeting any questions from members of council regarding the subdivision

I don't actually need to ask about every single thing.

Well, I look at both sides and then like I'm crossing the street. I look both ways several times.

Seeing and hearing nothing, Mrs. Frank.

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan.

Yes.

Mr. Mackey.

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger.

Yes.

Ms. Milley. Yes. Mr. Palizzi.

Yes.

Mr. Viter.

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Item number 14, a certificate of appropriateness for two West 4th Street cellos. Once again, can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

City Council, the application before you is a review for certificate of appropriateness submitted by Sillow's Antiques and Gold, located at 2 West 4th Street, Williamsport. The plan was prepared by Tony Visco's office, and I believe we have a representative tonight. Essentially, the aspect of improvements are limited to the first floor, include primarily new aluminum frame windows and partial board and batten style metal siding and a new metal door. Additionally, there's a projecting sign off the corner entrance in the existing location of a previous sign. That sign is proposed to be double-sided, 7.8 square feet within the CBD district and projecting no more than five feet from the building. Fastening components will ultimately need to be signed and sealed by a PA registered architect or engineer prior to receiving final zoning and building code approval.

Are there any questions from members of council?

I'm assuming that this, um, meets our downtown design ordinance components.

It does. Okay.

Um, the metal, the metal siding specifically, um, looks like it'll be an improvement to the, to the building, but is in keeping with other.

Yeah, it's only a minor aspect of the facade there. And based on, you know, I know, you know, I'm probably not the expert on that ordinance, but it seemed to meet the intent.

Okay. I think Tony Visco may well be one of the experts on the ordinance. So sorry, if he did it, I believe that it should suit, but just wanted to check.

And I apologize, I forgot to mention that this also did receive favorable recommendation at the May 4th Planning Commission meeting.

Seeing and hearing nothing else said, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan.

Yes.

Mr. Mackey.

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger.

Yes.

Ms. Mealy. Yes. Mr. Palizzi.

Yes.

Mr. Reiter.

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. We'll move to item number 15, a certificate of appropriateness for 320 East 3rd Street. Could I have a motion, please? So moved.

Thank you.

City Council, the application before you is an application for Little Topia for a certificate of appropriateness for a wall-mounted business sign. The wall-mounted sign is proposed to be material aluminum composite paneling. Total sign area is 50 square feet. The location of the sign itself is going to be facing the interior parking lot side of the, I guess it would be the western side of the building. And as you'll see in some of the attachments, we have already tentatively approved the building code designed for fastening components under the UCC regulations. This did receive favorable recommendation at the May 4th Planning Commission meeting.

Are there any questions from members of council? Seeing and hearing nothing, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder.

Yes.

Mr. Milligan.

Yes.

Mr. Mackey.

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger.

Yes.

Ms. Milley. Yes. Mr. Polizzi.

Yes.

Mr. Beiter.

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. And item number 16, a certificate of appropriateness for 345 Mulberry Street. Could I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

Good evening, Council. The application before you is another certificate of appropriate request submitted by the Enchanted Site Foundation Museum, located at 345 Mulberry Street. The application is essentially to construct a very small accessible ramp in the rear of the building. Surrounding the accessible ramp will be two proposed planter garden beds for visual purposes. And in addition to that, the existing impervious parking lot is to be restriped with new accessible parking space and signage. Again, we have reviewed the plans for accessibility components and it has received tentative approval by the building code team. This also received a favorable recommendation at the May 4th Planning Commission meeting.

Are there any questions from members of council? Liz Mealy.

I'm so excited to see a new use for this building. We actually should have asked this for Littletopia as well. Do you know anything about what's opening up in the space? Is there anyone here as a representative who might want to say something about it?

I know the representatives for Littletopia. That was just from Stetson, so I don't know how much they have. But Eric, do you have?

Yeah, usually if it's a new business or a business that's, you know, we try to offer them a little bit of a, right? I mean, in this case, maybe not a business if it's a museum, but.

Yeah, he's looking to do a museum in the building.

Okay.

So that's just kind of the start of the process. He still has to get building code approval to actually convert it to a museum.

Well, it's a beautiful building, a really remarkable space. So that's exciting. Thank you.

Any other questions from members of council? Seeing and hearing none. Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey?

Yes.

Mr. Dessinger?

Yes.

Ms. Mealy? Yes. Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Beiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much. We appreciate you being here this evening. Pleasure to meet you. All right. We'll move to item number 17, except for filing the controller's report for March 2026. Could I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Any questions or concerns about the controller's report from March of 26? Seeing and hearing none, Mrs. Frank?

Dr. Yoder?

Yes.

Mr. Milligan?

Yes.

Mr. Mackey? Yes. Mr. Dessinger? Yes. Ms. Mealy?

Yes.

Mr. Palizzi?

Yes.

Mr. Reiter?

Yes. Motion passes 7-0. Item number 18, announcements. The next regularly scheduled City Council meeting will be held on Thursday, June 11th, 2026 at 7 p.m. here at Trade & Transit 2. Upcoming meetings on Monday, June 1st, 12 p.m. is the Planning Commission. On Tuesday, June 2nd at 4 p.m. is the Quarterly Pension Review. On Tuesday, June 9th at 1 p.m. is the Committee of the Whole meeting. On Wednesday, June 10th at 3.30 is the O&E Pension meeting. On Thursday, June 11th at 7 p.m. is our City Council meeting. Are there any comments from members of the public this evening? Are there any comments from members of council this evening?

I have one real quick. I would just like to also say, I know the mayor already touched on this, but give a really good attaboy. Potentially to Mr. Livermore, Mr. Scott in Moscow. You know, the estimated time of completion for this project, given the circumstances, I know is a little bit further out. So the fact that we're even constructed, wired in, and we're going to be testing lights this fast on a project like this, specifically for when dealing with a government entity, too, is, in my opinion, completely unheard of. So I'm extremely impressed. Thank you.

Mr. Mackey, did you have something?

Oh, no. Great minds think alike. Ditto. That's what I was going to say.

Are there any comments from the administration this evening? Any comments from the news media? None are here. All right. Take a motion for adjournment. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye.