Municipal Council - Regular Meeting

Logan Municipal Council Budget Workshop for May 26th, 2026.

I've not made that connection, James.

26th of 26th. We are going to dive into our budget agenda today. I want to start with our Light and Power Department and Mark Montgomery, if you want to run us through your budget.

Is somebody going to log this in? I guess I can. Maybe. Maybe.

Makes me feel better, I gotta log in too, so don't make stress over here.

Apparently I've never logged in at this particular station. I should have had Jeff log us in. This will be really easy, just like last year. All right. Go away. Crying out loud.

This happens to everybody.

I know.

It's hard going first.

It is so hard to go first. I hope this works. Mike just bangs the gavel and tells you to get to work. Hopefully the finance department is paying our Microsoft subscription. I think it's still under org.

What are you doing?

Trying to get Office logged in.

Because I had to log my own account into the computer because it wasn't logged in.

It's technology.

It's hard. We were talking about that. That's why I said that.

Okay. Let's rock them. Not quite.

Let's not. Okay. First slide is just kind of a... Actually, the 2025 number there is not the mayor adopted. That was my budgeted, and I know that was higher. But the 2026 was the mayor adopted budget, and the 2027 shows our overall budget for this year. Mayor adopted, so you can see it's pretty flat. It's too flat, Rich. The lion's share of my budget comes from the power purchase budget. Last year we had budgeted $31,595, and this year we've budgeted $32,389,400. We're seeing quite a bit of upward pressure on the cost per power. Luckily our kind of operation and maintenance and all that kind of stuff that's fairly flat, but the power costs are going up We still have kind of a big unknown for the extended day ahead markets edam We've been operating under edam since May 1st, but we have yet to see a bill for what that looks like yet So I hope it's in the same ballpark. I just don't know Along with the power budget, we budget for natural gas because we have natural gas turbines and natural gas reciprocating engines at that new generation station up at substation 7. We dropped that a little bit to make our budget match. Hopefully that'll be okay, even though we're going to burn more natural gas. But we seem to have an overage there, so I think it'll be okay. But between the power budget and this natural gas budget, that's the lion's share.

The rest is... On most years do you hit that budgeted amount for natural gas? No, we don't.

It's kind of a... One year we came close when... Like right now our natural gas price is $1.30 per decatherm. The one crazy year a couple years ago, it went to $15 during the winter and it ate through it really fast. So as long as you're on a craziness like that, and we haven't hedged any gas that year. And I don't think we've hedged any at this point either.

It's a natural gas. Budget isn't expended. Does it just go to reserves and capital expenses? Yep.

In fact, well, so we had to pay Enbridge Well, we started out paying them $4 million to run the natural gas line to the new plant. Excuse me. And they came in with a change order. We have to pay another $670,000 because I guess it was more expensive than they anticipated to put that line in. We're going to pay that out of this because I have enough money left in this to cover that cost.

Did you say you expect that we'll burn more natural gas?

Yeah, because we've got those 10 megawatts of generation that we didn't have before. And they're actually operating pretty regularly under EDAM. I think you guys have heard this before. We have to come to the market with enough resource to cover our load plus a small surplus. And so we use that and then We tell the day ahead market, hey, we'll run it if it's this month, you know, if it's over this price. And we've run that quite a bit in the last couple weeks.

Do we have that price just to cover our costs?

Yeah, we don't have to run it at a loss. We can dictate and say we've got to have this.

Are we running it at a profit right now or no?

A little bit, like enough to cover maintenance and stuff like that, but other than that we don't jack the price up. The market's such that it keeps you from gaming it that way. Sure. And then I mentioned this earlier, we did a cost of service analysis three or four years ago and the consultant recommended that we do two to three percent per year. And then Tyson Godfrey, you guys are all familiar with him, he's been doing some cost of service analysis and again we found that the upper pressure on power costs is what's pressuring us to collect more money. So we're planning on a 3% overall revenue. I don't know if that means 3% to residential, 3% to the university, 3% to industrial. You know what I mean? But overall, we're looking at 3%. We're trying to look at the costs and see where those adjustments make the most sense.

So Mark, when will that come before us?

I will probably bring that to you the first council meeting in August.

Okay.

And let you look at what those look like. We have...

Right by truth and taxation sounds like a good one.

Yeah. Well, I used to try and do it this time of year so it could get passed with the budget. It's fine. But everybody got mad at me for making the meetings too long.

You quit. Without getting out of the weeds too much, are you anticipating, I know at the Power Board last time there was that discussion about the commercial billing issue. Yes. I'm assuming that's completely resolved to the most part.

So we found that. What's the nice way to put this? So we were training. So Tyson Godfrey was going to automate this process for the meter guys that take them all day doing spreadsheets and looking through numbers. So Tyson built a tool for them that would make it quickly, and they were explaining their process to him, and I walked by and walked in, and I was standing there listening to the conversation, and as they explained how they calculated the peak demand, I was like, that's not right. That's not what the rate says. And even Tyson, who's relatively new to the power market, is like, is that right? No, it is not right. Anyways, we have let the industrial customers know that we will correct how we bill for that. We will not give them a rate increase, but just by correcting the way we bill is essentially a 3-ish percent. It depends on the customer, but it's around 3% revenue increase by just billing.

But that's been addressed at this point in the billing?

Yeah, we've spoken to all the industrial customers and kind of let them know that it's coming. We've told them we'll continue to bill it the way it is through this fiscal year, and then July 1st billing we're going to start. kind of doing it correctly so okay any other questions for mark for them would it be three percent plus three percent no i won't i won't jack them up three percent just just by correct just by collecting the correct revenue from the bill it's going to increase their costs by three percent which increases our revenue by three percent

Is that all industrial or all commercial?

It's just the industrial customers. So the six big ones, the Gosners, the University. Well, actually, Tyler's one of them, but because the only time this mistake reared its head was if there were multiple meters on the system. Tyler only has one, so he's not going to get it. He's been paying his fair share.

So we're going to specifically raise his 3%. All right.

Because then he'll have to write sewage rates. It's like a rolling 3%.

I know. No, we'll just correct how we collect it. It should be good this year. And then, of course, we'll look at it again next year. I mean, likely another increase next year and the year after. Well, it's the power market right now. We've done some projections out and it looks like we need to do that for another five or six years. And then by that point, we'll probably need to do it for another five or six years. I mean, it depends, right? Yeah, you never know. But from where we're sitting now, that's as far as we need to go. But I'm not going to say we're not going to.

So Mark, if we decide or you decide or Mark decides, that we were going to install solar on top of a new public services building or buildings?

I tried to, but Rich said no.

We actually met on that today, this morning.

Right, but what I'm saying is how would that funding affect your budget? Because you would essentially own that.

I believe Rich is going to talk to you about a reserve transfer.

Okay.

Do we know a rough estimate on that yet? $750 is the number.

Oh, that's not bad. Okay, I was like, that's not bad for a megawatt.

No, that's just... After that, we've got to pay for panels and wires. That makes more sense.

I was like... That's our plan to bring that to you at the next council meeting for workshop and then... June 16?

Do we know a full all-in cost for solar there, though? Or estimate?

It was like $1.2 million to get it all done. Prep the building, panels, everything. Prep the building and pay for equipment. And a lot of that depends on how much work we do. Well, he did a really nice analysis, and it pencils. It's not a great deal, but we don't lose money on it. So it makes sense to probably do it.

And then it'll just go into our portfolio of...

It will be part of our resource mix. Okay. It takes about as much as our hydro does right now. That's why you're wearing your green shirt. It's not a bad addition. If we had a full river. Maybe not this year. It'll probably be better in some ways. Any other questions?

Any other questions for Mark? Okay. Thank you, Mark.

I hesitate leaving myself logged in here. I want everybody looking at my files. Oh, I would pick the log out, Mark.

I'll leave it in just because it was such a... Isn't there some there? You never leave your own phone? Somebody log it out and give it to an officer.

Isn't there some? I think Craig would beg to differ on that comment. Where's Craig today? We need Craig here. All right, Chief Simmons. Let's see if I can get this in here.

I was asked by one of your officers if I was your spouse. What?

I very much apologize for that. I just thought I'd say that. Moving on.

Moving on. I'm so sorry for that. I feel bad. No, I just thought I'd share.

That's for after the meeting. Different spelling.

I was going to say, yeah. I know.

Thank you for lunch, though. That was very nice. I'll tell them you took me to lunch. How about we do that?

We have to go on a date first.

Thanks for this time. I just have a few slides, but I did want to start with Sergeant Ryan Blau. He's right now at McKady Hospital. He has lost his battle with brain cancer. I know a few of you knew him and They've turned off the machines and are just waiting for him, but he's fighting right now to stay alive. But he, it really struck quickly. In fact, he retired last year in January and he quickly had a heart attack, kidney stones, pneumonia, and a cancer diagnosis within four months. And he's been fighting the cancer ever since. Thought he had it whipped here about two months ago. And then just within the last two weeks, it's now spread to the liver and to the, so he was life-flighted. I went down and spent all day with him and it's pretty tough around the pd he was a very very important part of our department in fact he's even though he retired he's a part-time officer with us so we're going to be escorting him back as soon as that as soon as he passes beyond the veil and we'll we'll escort him back here and probably uh we've tentatively designated a funeral for next saturday at white pine so anyway i just wanted to mention that so there's a lot of heavy hearts around the pd right now I know all of us in all the city departments, we come to you and we beg and plead. I don't have enough people. I don't have enough money. We just get told to shut up by Rich, but he's actually very helpful.

He's our gatekeeper. He says the same thing to me. He does, I know.

But he has been very, very helpful and I wanted to thank the city for what it's done for the department, for all the departments. and keeping everything fairly balanced. So even though we come with needs and there's a hundred needs obviously between all the departments, I'll just talk a little bit about kind of what we've gone through. I did send an email to everybody kind of explaining what we're going to talk about tonight. So normally we're a force of 60 officers and that's and I'll show you later that's actually well below industry standards. But we actually went down to 56 personnel last July. And the reason was the county, because they were losing so many people to other agencies, they arbitrarily raised everybody's wages up 10%. We were kind of even with them, sometimes behind, a little bit above. And if they had done that, it would have killed us. I already lost 12 officers to other agencies in the last two years because of the higher pay. Logan, even though we're the largest city, we don't offer the most pay. Brigham City, Box Elder, that's where I've lost most of the officers. Ogden, a couple of them have gone down there. My fear is this data center, when it comes in and starts feeding the coffers of Box Elder, is only going to make it even worse for us. And so I had to make a decision and thankfully I was supported by Rich when he saw what we were facing. that we needed to at least match that 10%. The only way we could do that is I had four officers leaving at that moment. One to retirement, Lieutenant Frankie, and then three to other agencies. So we took those four positions and vacated them and took that money and paid the other officers just to keep the experience. that we had. There's no substitute for experience, especially in policing. You cannot have a force of all rookies here. And I lost some of my best officers to these other agencies. So that was the choice. Either increase wages and keep your experience or lose or don't increase wages and continue this exodus. to higher paying agencies. The officers, and I think most young people are like that these days, they're chasing the dollar, right? Because everything's expensive, right? It's expensive to get housing, especially in Cache Valley. So it's very difficult for us. So that was our dilemma. Talked to the mayor, Mayor Daines at the time, and Rich, and they were supportive of it. They didn't like it. I don't like it. I didn't like it, the move at the time. And no, I didn't take any of that 10%. That was strictly to maintain the officers that we had. So... Nevertheless, the demands for service, the demands for accidents continue, increased demands for, hey, you know, I'm always getting calls sometimes even from council members because you hear it from constituents saying, hey, a parking issue, a homeless issue, and those things are only going to increase for us. Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to go that far. So the obvious answer from a lot of people, well, great, we'll just hire new employees. Well, in policing, it's not that easy. We have to send someone to post, and there's a definite cost associated with all of that. So number one, we're deprived of that person while they're at post. And then when they come back from post, it costs $37,000 just to send them to post. When they come back from post, being the police officer standard in trainings, then we have to give them around 600 hours. of training and there's a salary cost, sorry, it's 0.46 for the benefits, not 76, I forgot to change that. So all in all, to get an officer off of field training that means he's out with another officer or she's out with another officer completing about 33 weeks of training it costs the city it costs the department about seventy thousand dollars and even then you don't have an experienced officer you have a brand new rookie who barely knows the the the fundamentals of policing and it will take years to get that experience in him that will become a great benefit to our community The problem we've had is those 12 that we've left, we've done that. We've trained them. And once we've trained them, they depart because now they're allowed to transfer to some other agency. They'll pay them an extra $5 to $10 an hour or more. Literally, that is what the going rate is. And we're left having to spend more money training in an experienced officer again. So that's the retention problem I face.

So why is it that... Does every police department who hires, this is only for new officers, correct? Yes. So, I guess I don't understand. They've already gone through all their training. This is additional training?

When they go through post-training, like the academy training, that's what we're talking about.

So they're not even a police officer when they come to us?

They come to us, and most departments are like this. Once you come to us, now you have to be trained for an additional 30-some-odd weeks. to learn how to be a policeman here in Logan and to gain the experiences, the practical experiences that they only taught academically in the academy. So there's a huge difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but we don't pay them to go to the academy. Sometimes we do. And sometimes we have to in order to get quality candidates. If we identify somebody who has not been through the academy, we will send them to post if we're that impressed with them.

Is that common?

It is more and more common these days than it was back in the day. You didn't need to. We had so many candidates going to the academies that we could just go in there, pick and choose the ones we want, and they could pay for their own academy. Now we're forced to more and more pay for that academy because you get so very few people wanting to become police officers these days.

Do we not have an ability to say... If we pay for your entire education that you have a five-year commitment with us or a seven-year commitment?

Yeah, we do that now. And Ambrey Darley, the HR director, she's helped us implement that. So once they get two or three years, they fulfilled that commitment generally. And that's about the time they leave is once they've filled that commitment. So you're right. Yes, we do have them sign a contract. Most departments do now to recoup that cost if possible. But after two or three years, they've already kind of used up that cost.

So do you have a sense of the area police organizations, Brigham, Box Elder, Cache County, do they all do this?

Well, a lot of the higher paying agencies don't have to do this and the reason is because they're stealing from us. And when they do that, the training For them, it's very little. If I lose Corporal Robert Palmer, an experienced officer here, he goes to Brigham City, they might train him for two or three weeks in the way that they do it because he's already had vast experience over here. They might train him for a couple weeks and then he's out on his own. That saves them all the cost in the world because we've already trained them. We've been the AAA ball club for their major leagues is really what it looks like.

I mean $69,834 is a lot of money that in my mind might be able to be applied to officers that have experience so you don't have to do all this. I guess I don't understand if there's part of the budget that is dedicated to this particular

Well, most of that is salary anyway that we're paying. But remember, when they're in training, we're paying them a salary to be a police officer, but they can't be a police officer. And so they're completely through training and field training out on the road. So they're really... they don't really count toward our numbers. They're not really police officers until they get out on their own, and we can count them as part of our shifts, as part of our force. Until then, they're just a companion to an officer that has been trained and has the experience.

So on the average year, how many How many people do you pay that 37136 for?

Well, that's the new 37... Oh, you're talking about the... Well, it depends. So I've lost 12 officers in the last two years. And I think of that 12, we've picked up... And I'm just... I'm kind of guessing here, I would say about five or six of them we have sponsored through the Academy and paid that because they have been really impressive candidates and you might as well, I will never hire somebody that's not going to cut it, that's going to be a bad officer or who may cause liability to the city. Others are not that picky, but we are very picky at Logan City. So whether they have actually gone to the academy, are in the academy, or have never gone, if we identify them as a very good potential prospect, then we will do this for them. We will. But it's because the Sheriff's Department, they can now hire people at 19 years of age to work in the jail. They've already got a two-year jump on us. I can't hire anybody until they're 21. So they've already got their hooks into a lot of the academy classes here locally and in Weber County. They've already got job offers out to these folks because they've already been working with them for two years. I don't have that ability to do that. I have to wait till they're 21. So you see why we're caught in this dilemma. We have to do everything we can to get the quality applicants. And we do, by and large, hire very, very good applicants. But sometimes we have to do this.

Chief, do you feel that when you did take those four salaries to increase and be more competitive with our ordering and regional police officers, that that will... I guess I'm trying to... I'm wondering if this cost where you're having to... In theory, maybe we were training more that we're getting... then picked off after a few years if maybe that if you would anticipate less of these As we're more competitive and online with, does that make sense where we're doing as much training? Like, if the past few years we're doing more because we're having to get them back up. Would that be accurate or no?

It is. I really believe. And of course, this is for the mayor and anybody else to check. It's easy for the chief to stand up here and say, oh, our department's great and everybody loves it there. I really believe they do. I think they really like working for the city. I think they love the culture that we have, but money talks. And so that 10% did help stave off some potential departures. I'm usually the last one to hear. Nobody wants to tell the chief, hey, I'm looking at another agency, right? But I hear through the grapevine. But that 10% last year did stave off some of those departures. and has gone a long way. Our starting wage right now is $32.19. That is unheard of. I started at $10 an hour back in 97. Policing is expensive. After George Floyd, police quit. Nobody wanted to become a policeman. And look, what happened there was horrible. We all agree on that. But it's stained every policeman in this nation, even though we had nothing to do with that and would never do that. So that has driven the cost for police up all across this nation. And so we're just trying to keep up. But our problem is, and I know we're doing the very best we can as a city. We obviously don't tax our citizens as much as others. And I love it. I live in Logan. I don't want to pay more taxes, right? But there's a cost to that, too, as far as paying your officers and your experienced people, not just officers, firemen, linemen, all these other departments, because they're tempted, as good as it is here, to jump because there's $10,000 more to be made over here or vice versa. I sent out that email and this Corporal Robert Palmer, who I love dearly, he went over there for $49 an hour, well above whatever I was paying him as a corporal. He went over there as an unranked officer and was making about 12 bucks an hour more than what he was making here with us. How they do it, I don't know. I don't have all those numbers. I just know I just lost one of my very, very best officers. And many of those 12 are very good officers. Otherwise, we wouldn't hire them. So... So has it slowed? Honestly, I'm kind of hoping police salaries kind of stabilize. I really am. It's a pain in the butt to an administrator to try to keep up with all this. And I'm sure the mayor and Rich is tired of hearing me whine about it, but it's just a constant battle with us. But we do everything we can culturally to make sure this is a great place. And I think we've achieved that. It does cost the training. Every once in a while, we will get a lateral candidate. We did take Ashley Lowe from USU PD. She wanted to come down. She liked it because we actually do a lot here. We have a lot of calls. There's a lot of experience. She did get a little bit of a raise to come here. But we get her, and she's training a month or so. We didn't have to pay for the academy. We didn't have to do it. So that's a win for us. It costs us very little to get her here and to train her, and she wants to be here. So... Every once in a while, we get a gem like that, and we're happy to have that. But generally speaking, yeah, we're kind of behind the times.

So, Jeff, can I ask you one more question before we go on? You said that we operate with 60 officers. Was that correct?

We were operating with 60 and went down to 56.

With 56, and you said 60 was not quite... the number you needed, but what is the metric that you use?

You'll see that on the upcoming slide here, I'll show you exactly that. So good question, yeah. So you think that four officers, that's not a big deal, right? But what it has done is created zero margin scheduling. It's really tough. There really is no margin for error. When we have an illness, illness, injury, or mandatory training, We are bare bones on trying to get things done. Traffic, you saw the slide before, we handle anywhere between 1,700 to 2,000 accidents a year. Those works bodies were part of our traffic shift. to really go out there and try to keep people in line so that we're not playing smash up car out on Main Street all day long, right? So overtime shifts, there's a lot of overtime. That's the one thing we can offer. We have a ton of overtime in Logan City with all the events that we have, but we're also finding that we're having trouble filling those overtime shifts. We're getting all kinds of alcohol shifts from the state, hey, and we're like, we can't even fill them because what may be happening is Our officers are taking so much overtime, it's increasing burnout. They get tired, they want to be home. The new generation does want to be home. They want to work and they want to go home and be whatever they are and I encourage that, right? But it increases burnout safety risks. And like I say, our alcohol and some special events will go unfilled due to burnout. So again, we disbanded our traffic shift in order to do this. We will still work traffic, obviously, when we are above minimums. We have a minimum of five to six officers every shift, 24 hours a day. And you have nine people on a shift, but between days off and sick and mandatory training and all this, if you can get five officers, six officers there on a shift, that's what you have out on the road in marked vehicles, handling all the calls that happen on a day-to-day basis. Swing shifts, man, they are busy. They're running all the time. Morning shift, they have a little more time to be proactive. Grave shift, a little more time to be proactive. But By and large, 56, we're running, all of us are running pretty hard right now. And I knew that that was going to happen. It was a choice. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either keep my experience or go down a few and work extra hard. So that's kind of where we're at. And you know it's not becoming safer in Logan. You saw what happened over the weekend. We had a massive police response because, you know, this person unloaded 17 rounds at a car. That doesn't happen to Logan, but more and more we're going to start seeing those things. We've seen that in the last two years. What happened out in Hiram a year ago, what happened in our park two years ago as well. So there's some, it's not a safer world that we live in. And then to Jeannie's question here. So 54,000 roughly is what we have in Logan proper as far as population. Obviously much more with university students and everybody coming in to shop and whatnot. We have 56 officers right now and that gives us a ratio of 1.03 per thousand. And you can kind of see some of the other cities. Bonneville's right there with us, Taylorsville. But then you see Murray, Idaho Falls, Pocatello, all cities roughly in the same ballpark as us, but then you see the number of officers that they have. And we're trading everybody. We're probably the lowest per ratio thousand in the entire state. The Utah average of all police departments is 1.6 per thousand. The national average is 2.4. We currently sit at 1.03. So it's significantly below the Utah State standard now. We live in a very wonderful place up here. It's a very safe place, right? People generally cooperate with us and do a great job. But as the population grows, as potentially we get a homeless shelter, and as the world becomes more unstable and unsafe, more officers are going to be needed. If we were to extrapolate 1.6 for our population, we'd be looking at 85 officers. And that is a huge, huge expense. It's massive. So that's where we're at. So all I'm trying to do is kind of reclaim just what we lost in order to stop the bleeding basically, but we're still far below. And that's a talk for a different day, but that's what we're looking at in the coming years. Did you have a question?

Yeah, I do have a question. If you could go back one slide.

Back one.

Do you have any numbers, any data on to like the incident to numbers of officers ratio? Call volume to... Call volume to... Just wondering if there's a...

I think I do, but I didn't bring it with me, and I don't have it, obviously, my brain doesn't work so well these days, so I don't have it memorized, but their call volume, I would say, is at least, well, probably not bountiful, but I would suggest that Taylorsville, Murray, Autopols, and Provello, they have probably a higher call volume than us, yes. But they also have more officers to deal with it, and slightly larger populations other than maybe Murray, so...

Can I ask one more question? Sure. Looking at Utah State being in Logan City, how many officers do they have?

Right now, they have boosted their numbers from 20-something. They're 25 now.

They used to be about half of that.

Because they joined the PAC-12, my understanding is, according to what they've told me, they've had to increase their numbers to meet that PAC. Is it 12 or 10? I can't remember. PAC-12. PAC-12. To meet that conversation. Which is nine.

Which is nine, but eventually. Nine, but eventually.

So that 54,000 that shows here, that doesn't include Utah State. That's just regular Logan citizens around.

Right, and that population.

That population. Yes, Utah State. So Utah State, they have what, 23,000, 24,000 students? But 54,000 does include Utah State students. Does that include Utah State?

I don't think it does. It includes a lot of them because a lot of them live here year-round.

There may be some spillover, obviously, but that's 26,000. How much mutual aid do we have? I mean, I know a lot of times in use of force videos, we see USU officers responding to our calls. How much do we respond to them? How much do they respond to us? We're too busy to really respond up there, unless there's emergency. Are they helping out fairly regularly?

But they come down because... So they come down to help, but they don't have any, not to say all of them, but a lot of those officers are brand new. They don't have any experience. So they come down just to learn and see what it's like to take a domestic, to take a fight, to take an accident, that sort of thing. And I advise them, like, yeah, come on down, get all the training you need. But that's kind of what we're facing.

So does the addition of those 25 officers help to offset that ratio a little bit? Because they can do calls anywhere as well or no?

Right, but their jurisdiction isn't Logan City. So they're not going to jump in on a call unless they're invited to by us, unless we're so busy. And we've done this before. We're so busy right now. Like Saturday's event with the shooting, UHP, everybody was coming in to help us take calls in Logan City because we were out there. So only in special circumstances does that maybe apply. We will help each other, no doubt about it. But again, they have their own population to deal with. We have our population to deal with. And yes, they mix. There's no doubt about it. But generally speaking, that's where we're at.

What about events? Do you guys mix a lot with events or do they handle theirs?

Do you handle... Yeah, for the most part that is the case. But they do ask us, like all the football games, they ask us to come up there and work football games. We charge them. We charge most any entity that wants our services, we'll charge them for that. But if it was an emergency, we wouldn't charge them. We just go and help.

We were just discussing up here, I think... It'd be useful to look at those numbers a little bit. So I think around 3,000 to 4,000 students left on campus at Utah State, so the remaining say 18 or 21 000 something like that just 20 000 let's say 20 000 so 16 000. uh there's another 3 000 that live in the county who are commuting there they may or may not be in logan right so even conservatively let's say you've got 15 13 000 that are being serviced by logan that may be included in that number, may not be included in that number. And that's kind of an interesting thing, too. And I think, too, maybe with Utah State University, it's something for us to, I don't know, just be thinking about as we discuss partnerships and opportunities for, you know, and if there are, right? And as you say, you know, where, when it comes to how many students they are responsible for responsible for and and therefore hiring police force for and how many are actually in logan city you know yeah yeah um while i've got the fort uh one question my guess is um and i obviously won't hold you to this or any of us to this because we don't know what budget situation would look like a year from now but given you have these four positions that you used the funding for to provide the increases and this year the request is for one position to try to slowly backfill those two positions i'm sorry two positions Are we, is the idea in coming budget years is to continue back filling those?

Before you answer that, can I circle? Rich, it says one.

It says one. So it's one funded by property tax. There's another one funded by a department budget.

Yeah.

Got it. Thank you for the clarification.

Thank you for the clarification.

I was in the impression it was one. Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, no, and I was saying, yeah, the one that we're asking for. The other one is department funded, so we are going to do that to bring one back.

but sorry your question was well since we so we'd have two back up before just to get us back where we were and um is the hope to look at you know doing this again next year cycles and slowly

Yeah, so, I mean, in a perfect world where we had all the money in the world, yeah, that would be great. But, you know, I'm a realist, I know. You know, in my time here, if we can get back to the 60, that would certainly be helpful. And as we grow, we're going to have to grow not only our department but other departments as needs come along. And we'll see that in the coming years. But I do think it's imperative that we do get back at least to the 60. and then grow from there. I started at 056 back in 1997. So in those decades since, we've grown four positions. Now we've taken them right back to 56. But I did that out of necessity. So yeah, that's the hope. Let's get back to 60. We're not trying to be really demanding on this. We understand that there's budget constraints. We're just kind of understanding that for the future, yeah, there might be some growth that has to happen because it's not a safer world. I would never have guessed that we'd see that kind of incident in Logan on Saturday, but there you have it. So that's that, and then that's the end of the slide. Do you have any other questions for me? I'm happy to try to answer.

I just wanted to mention the numbers on that slide where you're quoting the benefits. Did you say those numbers were wrong?

What's that too? Your budgetary slide on sending them to post.

So it was 0.46? Yeah, it's 0.46.

Isn't that right, Rich? Isn't it about four?

But is that dollar amount the same, or is it?

Yeah, no, the dollar amount I fixed. I just didn't fix the seven cents. The dollar amount is exactly the same. I should have, but I was in a hurry, and then I was thinking of Genie's Pizza down here, and I...

Don't tell your officers you're having pizza with Cheney. That's right. They'll get more confused.

I don't want confused police officers.

But this community is great to us. We're very happy. This is a shot, obviously, of bringing Eric Estrada's body back last August. And I was stunned at how many people stood and really paid homage to that, to the officer who'd fallen for that. I couldn't work in a better community. I wouldn't want to work in another community, and I mean that. And I think that's why officers do stay even when budgetarily it would make sense to go elsewhere. This is a great community, and it's a great city to work for. It's always treated me very well.

Any other questions for Chief before we?

No, thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate you letting us ask a bunch of questions. Any discussion? Of course. We'll move on to Tyler Richards with the Environmental Department. While he's getting ready, I'll tell you my fact. I learned out the wastewater treatment facility when I went out on Sam's smiling already. When did we go out? Wednesday? Last week? Thursday last week? We went for water board. Does anyone know how long it takes wastewater to go from the start of the wastewater treatment facility to the end? I was surprised. Nine hours.

Nine hours.

So if you have Taco Bell. Use the toilet. Get up in the morning, run to the wastewater. You can have it again for breakfast. That's my... Anyway, you look like you're ready, Tyler, so I'll let you take over now.

We'll sort it out, though. We won't have your name back on it, but we can't even talk about it. We're not going to put that in the minutes.

Let the official record show that you can recycle your talker well.

That's gross.

I'm sorry.

That's gross.

First off, Mike Johnson took some great pictures for us, so you get new pictures with this presentation this year.

I uploaded some more for you yesterday, too.

Yeah, all the photos are courtesy of Mike Johnson, so you have that. Okay, so we got two funds to go over, right? The 520 fund for wastewater treatment and the 570 fund for solid waste collection disposal. So we'll jump right into the 520. Here's just kind of a graph depicting previous year's budget, expense, and revenue. uh the year-to-date revenue versus expense of the proposed rich always gives you these a little early the year-to-date revenue is actually closer to 4.6 million now so close to what the expended expense with our capital i'm assuming um

our reason for that difference is going to be the between the actual 2025 and 2027 is going to be uh impact fee impact fee we can't we don't budget for those unless we have a specific project so our impact fees for last year were about 623 000 year to date we're about 734 for this year

entities participate another 1.4 that that i just took the total so that's total that's logan cities then all the other entities that pay in fact these as well so the fund expense for the 520 fund you can see the biggest expense by far is our debt service 5.2 million annually is our debt service for the wastewater treatment plant

Can you explain what that is? Sorry, I don't know what it does.

So when we built the plant, we borrowed $100 million between three different bonds.

Okay.

And so our annual bond payments is 5.2 million. At the start of fiscal year 26, we owed $77 million. So we will make one bond payment or the combination of totaling 5.2. So we'll be done. Do we just pay it once a year? That'd be a critical question for Rich. We pay our bonds just once annually. Yeah. And so from the start of the year, $77 million, we've gone down $5 million. So at the end of this fiscal year, we're at $72 million.

Oh, and Melissa, they're at very, very low interest rates there.

Okay. That feels like that's going to take a long time. Under a percent?

Okay. So I think one's... One was three-quarters. The largest one was three-quarters percent. Yeah. One of them's at zero. One was, we didn't get a zero.

I thought we did. I thought we did. It's like 0.75.

I think it's 0.75, but I think the second one we had to go back for is 1.5. Yeah, I believe so.

And it's still incredibly low.

So that's looking like another 14 years to pay it off, roughly.

One more time.

Another 14 years or so to pay off the rest of that bond.

More.

So this is a 30-year term.

30-year bond.

Okay. Okay.

I'd have to look at it.

It was 30 years, but I can't remember if we started in 2020 or 2018 when we started construction. It's been a little while.

Okay. So maybe another 20 years.

24, maybe.

A lot of Taco Bell goes through in that time.

Yeah. so as you can see the other big sections of of the budget are chemicals and supplies utilities those are kind of fixed costs buying power is a big portion of that and natural gas for the the plant as well as just the chemical supplies the polymer and the different alum chlorine that we have to have on hand if needed for treatment some of the changes that we made this year so we did reorganize the 520 fund our pre-treatment division was previously housed in the 570 fund for under solid waste but their activities all pertain to wastewater treatment so we moved the 52110 pretreatment fund into the 520 umbrella then we We also segregated out the operation and maintenance costs for the treatment plant under that 520-105 treatment fund and then we'll have the 520-100 fund for administrative costs just so we can easily and better track the cost of the wastewater treatment plant. We did request a new superintendent position at the wastewater treatment plant. We currently have six operators and one of them is the lead operator. and what that's led to is we have a crew of three and then a crew of two with one guy trying to supervise but it leaves his crew down a person and when we have stuff go wrong on the days he's not there he's part of that shift he's not there to talk to vendors order parts purchase their, get the POs for their equipment and their repairs. So it'd be easier if we had one supervisor that is there most days, so five days a week, then have the two crews and three operators. So that was the request there. We are currently underway with our Biomag expansion project. The bid came in at about $6.9 million. uh we have got two grants that funded the the bulk of that so we got one grant for five million one for 1.75 million those are an 80 20 split with the epa so our portion is 1.35 million to match the 80 they pay and so we are looking to add some additional mixing to our current biomag expansion project which will let us use the the all the epa funds for less of our own money because currently we're paying the difference from six point or five million to six point nine so 1.9 million dollars but by utilizing the 1.75 million and the rest of our match we can lower that to about 1.35 million of our funds that go towards this project That's scheduled for completion here next April and that'll expand our solids handling capacity. What are you breaking ground on do you think? So we've officially kind of broken ground the contract signed. We're kind of in this forever waiting loop for them to get equipment on site. so the first estimate was the vfds and the mccs for the electrical controls was 10 weeks out now they're telling us it's december and since it's an upgrade you really can't do a lot of the work because it's got to be a plant shutdown short duration switch out the equipment and back up and running within like a day and so we're kind of waiting for better scheduling and better information from the contractor but but you think april's still with us hopefully yeah we're looking to change the instead of having rockwell as a manufacturer of the mtcs we're looking to have the the electrician uh pull that back in-house by a generic one do the modifications that were required by the project and the specifications in-house instead of at the manufacturing and hopefully i haven't heard back but hopefully that'll get us back on track doing like a 10-week delivery okay so our current reserve at the end of fiscal year was about 29 million dollars uh Rich and the council operating target was about $6.2 million for reserve levels. Just a look ahead. So on that top chart there, that is the expected upgrades or needs for the wastewater treatment plant in the years to come out. So currently Bioreactor 4 biomagnetic expansion is underway and paid for by EPA grant money. biodegradable would be the next expansion of the plant that would be needed. And the current estimate, it goes up every year as costs go up, is $38 million. So that would take our plant capacity from 18 million gallons a day to 24 million gallons a day. If you look in the bottom table, peak flows that Hanson Allen Lewis put together for estimated peak flows for our plant. Within 10 years, the 2034 mark, we're at 33 MGD on a peak. That'd be like a rain, snow on rain event. That'd be a storm event. But our flows have gone up significantly. So we typically, in the summertime, hit our plant capacity of 18 MGD. so that's why we'd be looking to begin hopefully bid this project bioreactor 4 in 2028. it'll be a discussion we need to make of at our current rate of reserve accumulation revenue we should have enough money in the end of fiscal year 28 to do that but it's a three-year project so is there the opportunity that we can go to bid like in 2027 or the beginning of 2028 during fiscal year 27 with both not all the reserves accumulated but 90 percent and so as we get closer maybe next year we'll be having that discussion with the guy to counsel and see how comfortable it will and it's a hard one to say because until we get bids we don't know where that number's actually going to land right and so we could we could say it's a good idea and if it's coming high and we can say we're still two years out so that's the hard part there but it's coming there's a lot of growth in the valley and we take up the majority of the wastewater treatment plant Any questions on wastewater? I think we're going to switch gears to 570. Any questions on wastewater treatment before we switch gears?

So we do service pretty much the entire north end of the valley?

So we go from Smithville to Nibley. So Smithville, Hyde Park, Logan. universities in there, then in River Heights, Providence, and Italy.

But they don't help fund like a build out like that at all.

That's just completely us because they're basically a customer. They pay a monthly sewer fee. Yeah, they pay. And they pay in values that go towards it as well. So anytime that we do a rate increase for the sewer treatment, it affects those other cities as well. The best part is we collect all that water and it goes right back in our ecosystem.

and we're done. From all those other communities, nine hours later.

I'm just surprised how fast that was. Like, I was really, like, I don't know.

It's impressive. And the other cool fact from the old lagoon system, it was 90 days. to go through our treatment process. It only evaporated the water.

90 days to 9 hours.

With the different treatment.

There's your marketing tool.

That's for releasing of clean water.

Yes. Okay, so 570, just some little stats here. So we service about 21,000 residential customers between single-family and multi-family homes. We're about three points. 3,700 curbside green waste cans out. Commercial accounts, about 3,200 commercial accounts. So that'd be dumpsters and roll-offs. In this past year, we did about 113,000 landfill transactions. At the Logan Landfill, we deposited 89,000 tons of C&D waste. North Valley, we took 86,000 tons of municipal solid waste, so irregular garbage waste. So at North Valley, we averaged around 300 to 350 tons a day, five days a week. The Logan Landfill, it's a little more variable because it's C&D, so a demolition project will The day it like five six hundred seven hundred tons, but it's typically around 200 250 tons a day So do you have it?

Do you have an estimated closing time for that?

But that where you fill up the CD the Logan landfill about two years And so that's part of this discussion here at the end. So about eighty nine thousand tons Here in two years. We're gonna have to put wheels under it and take it to North Valley and and that pretty much doubles the operation of our transfer yep so it's going to be a big ask for employees and equipment can you take c and d waste and put it in the transfer station and load it in the trucks in the same way that you would typical municipal solids uh as our transfer station set up no c and d waste is pretty bulky right and so and The trailers that we use for MSW, without first processing or grinding that waste, it would not come out of the trailers.

So are we going to be looking at a change to it or will you be processing it outside of the typical building or what?

So we're looking to build a separate C and D transfer station. It'll probably be like an open air transfer station right next in our vineyard to do that. Okay. Here's a little look at our revenue. You can see that it's split pretty evenly between collections, so commercial waste or commercial solid waste, residential solid waste. Then on the other, on the right-hand side of the graph, that's mostly your landfill and your billed revenue at the landfill. So it's about 50-50 where the revenue is generated.

So since we've had the split, how has that, has the amount of refuse coming to the transportation increased or stayed?

It has increased through growth.

Okay.

So all of the, the cash waste consortium, so the county and its haulers, Smithville and its hauler in the cities further than North Richmond and Lewiston, all have hired separate haulers, but all those haulers come to the transfer station and we still take all the waste and deliver it to North Valley. Okay. So it's just been through growth that waste has increased, but all of the waste is still disposed of at the landfill.

Okay.

um there's just a breakdown of our fund expenses generally so administration most of that is in rolling stock we try to replace two to three trucks a year as in garbage trucks and one to two pieces of landfill equipment so the rolling stock budget's about two million of that then wages and other things of the rest but most of that is in rolling stock So here's kind of a little look ahead of where we sit reserve-wise and where we need to be. Currently for reserves for the landfill, the 570 fund, we're about $2.8 million. We have to keep a mandatory landfill closure reserve. That was for the end of fiscal year 25, $5.2 million. So that gives us a total of about $33 million in reserve. What has been previously allocated for capital improvements is funding for the solid waste, the compost pad we're doing adjacent to the wastewater treatment plant and a C&D transfer station. So of that 10 million, about 6.3 is remaining that will get carried forward for the next year for the C&D transfer station. Rich wants to keep a minimum operating reserve, I don't know why, about 4.7. Crazy idea. So our total unallocated reserves currently is $13 million. and my best guess for future for future projects so equipment for a cd transfer station would be probably looking at three three million dollars on the low end that's just loader excavator potentially a grinder and then tractor trailers and semis The last three phases of Logan City landfill closure, that'll be about 5.2 million. That's already segregated out. In order to close the solid waste, green waste facility that's on 200 South adjacent to the landfill and move that all down to wastewater compost, we'll need to pave an additional probably 10 acres of space at the wastewater treatment facility. What we've done so far with this Swiffer grant that we got and what we do under construction now, we have enough room and space to compost all the biosolids, but not enough room to move all the grinding and receiving operations and sales operations down there. And so to move, and that's kind of a question for the council. the regional park that's slated for that area with the landfill closure. Depending on how fast you want to see that come to fruition is how fast we need to move on this. But it does, the sooner we do it in the midst of, because that can kind of wait a little bit. If we run out of room at North Valley, a liner doesn't wait. and the logan landfill we are going to run out of room there and that's not going to wait so those two kind of take precedence but so in the next about five years we'd be looking at pretty much using all our reserves so not this year but the following budget year we'll probably be looking at six to seven employees for that cb transfer and we probably should re-look at rates at that time. There is a C&D or a landfill tipping fee. It does go for C&D and MSW that goes into effect this July that was voted on two years ago. The tonnage goes from $38 a ton to $40 a ton. But when we take on the extra cost and the operation cost of transferring the C&D waste to North Valley, we will have to re-look at that.

You have to build a whole new building for it.

What's the place between those two facilities?

The C&D? So C&D is construction and demolition waste. I think she's asking between our transfer station and the North Valley landfill. So the North Valley landfill is a landfill that's north of Clarkson that we own and automate.

How far?

So it's five miles north of Clarkson. It's 25 miles from our transfer station. And so the transfer station, you just accept the public's ways, public drop off or can drop their stuff off, it saves them the trip out there. We load it on one large truck and take it out there.

But right at this moment, there is no drop off at North Valley other than

No, just our trucks.

So there's no like public?

There's no public acceptance of waste out there. So it is just our trucks that go out there.

Was it created that way so there would be less traffic going out there? Correct.

So there's a conditional use permit that was set up when we, when that landfill was approved, the limited truck traffic just to satellite transfer trailers.

It just seems crazy that trucks from Richmond and Smithfield are coming.

So apparently every truck, yes, even the waste that's collected in Parkston itself or Newton, Cornish, Lewiston, that all gets trucked down to the Logan Transportation and we take it back.

And wasn't that what you brought up as a request to review that conditional use permit so that we could...

Yes, we're going to go to the county with that request to remove that condition in the permit so that we could have more flexibility in operations of the landfill. But the mass of the waste or the bulk of the waste is generated from Logan, just maybe Smithfield and Midley. So even if that does get opened up or relaxed somewhat, it would not preclude us or we want to avoid the cost of having to transfer C&D waste.

Sure.

That's the crux of it, I mean. So I think that was all of my slides. I will say the one area I'm concerned with this year is budget. We did budget for hoping for about that 350 a gallon diesel. When we put this budget together, diesel is about 270 three dollars a gallon and we anticipated maybe going to like 350 375 this year yeah that was way off so so my annual budget for the solid waste collections and landfill everything runs on diesel down there is over one million dollars in budgeted so hopefully it does come back down but that is my one concern this year that we might have shorted the the fuel expense but hopefully it does not hopefully any other questions for tyler before we let him go thanks tyler thank you for everything you do tyler you're letting me make

He's like, he's good at this.

He's got all these balls bouncing at the same time.

And Paul has to bring emotional support for his budget hearing. Is that what Sam's here for?

I can't hear you.

No comment.

I'm not going to speak.

Just give me a second. I want to look at Mark's files really quick.

He's not here anymore. I know.

Exactly. Should we send some emails to his employees?

Good evening. Thanks for letting us come. I was thinking about it. There's obviously kind of a... low-hanging fruit here about saving the best apartment for last, so I appreciate that.

Always. We'll make you wait through every meeting just for that.

It's worth making the joke every year. But no, it is as much as I somewhat Dread budget season and going through the process and all that. It is great to step back from the day to day and take a 30,000 foot view. Public works and the whole city does and what it takes to do that. And so I appreciate the opportunity as we go through tonight. we will but we'll kind of in the beginning i'll kind of focus on the department operations and overview of public works we've got two new council members haven't been through the budget process so i Some of this will be a repeat for that, but the majority of our Public Works budget does focus on capital projects. And so Sam will highlight that at the end as our capital program manager. But that's the goal of that. Public Works, as you can see in front of you, has seven formal divisions within it, eight including the administration. You can see who they are. specifically the names of the divisions, not the people in the picture. But just a few, I guess, facts or what Public Works does. We have five of those divisions provide support services to the entire city. That's specifically engineering, GIS, facilities, the fleet, and emergency management. They're actually a support service not just for Public Works, but the entire city at large. We have 87 full-time employees within Public Works spread amongst all those divisions, the largest one being water, smallest one being emergency management. Roughly throughout the course of the year, we fluctuate between 15 to 30, 35 part-time employees, including all our custodians, interns, seasonal traffic control, those sort of things, make up most of our part-time employees. A few facts I find interesting, and I assume everybody does as well. We have 170 miles of sewer line that we maintain, 210 miles of water line. Those are both 10 to 11,000 connections, connection points from the system to private properties or connections. There's 74 miles of storm drain pipe and the little catch basins and the curb and gutter that take that water. There's over 5,000 of those throughout the city. We have 160 miles of roadway. If you break that into lane miles, so each lane, it's 320-ish lane miles that are maintained. 5,015 signs. Over 600 vehicles going through the fleet and shops for maintenance and just management of procurement, research, when do we replace and when do we not, that kind of thing. Engineering, they do the vast majority of our capital project management. Depending on the year, it can be on the low end, $8 to $12 million of capital And on the high end, like a year that we're building a water line and a water tank, upwards of $30 to $50 million. And they manage those projects. Facilities, cleaning 64 toilets every day and wipe down 494 light switches. Every single day. Every single day. GIS manages citywide, the GIS system with literally millions of data points that are

Including light switches.

Making sure our including light switches. We actually have every building broken down to light fixtures, switches. I think we're going to do a work order specific to that through our work orders. It's probably more detailed than it needs to be, but it helps in that process. That's our department. Just some budget notes to look at specifically from last, or excuse me, going forward. Generally our 2017-2017 budget remains generally unchanged. A few small exceptions. Mayor's proposed budget is a little different than it was last year. A small increase to active transportation in the capital budget. And then lots of little, if you went line item by line item or asked, ChatGPT did it for you. You'll see a lot of little changes, balancing. We went over and under on fuel or otherwise. You see a lot of those throughout the budget, just as cost change for materials and those sort of things. I mention that because I did it, and there's a lot of little ones. Sam will kind of specifically mention this, but our Class C funds We're looking to do a kind of a reprioritization with a little portion of those funds going from capital more towards kind of a stepped up maintenance or a little more prioritized maintenance of the roads with those funds. On our rolling stock equipment that rolls vehicles, those sort of things, just pointing out a few throughout the department. A new roller for asphalt and those kind of road street maintenance projects. A new bed, a steel bed and plow on one of our existing trucks. Rather than replacing the entire truck, we felt the mechanical portion and body of the truck was in great shape, so it was slated for replacement of the whole truck. And we said, let's just do the bed and plow and put that money to other things, rather than replacing the truck just because it was time to. A new forklift. A pool vehicle, not swimming pool, but a shared vehicle that departments can check out if they need to travel and don't have a vehicle. A facility service truck, a new floor scrubber, and a crane truck used specifically for water projects. It has a big flatbed on it for pipes, those sort of things. Just general speaking, ongoing or upcoming items that we always talk about regularly or are we bringing to you in the coming months, a potential transportation utility fee. Chief Simmons did a great job talking about employee compensation and employee retainment, those sort of things. We always talk about future positions. We don't anticipate any right now, but it's always something, come budget season, we consider. And then a couple I didn't put on there, but would be rate studies, water, sewer, stormwater specifically, and potential changes or increases to those. And as Tyler mentioned, fuel also became forefront of our mind when you drive a lot of vehicles. So I hope, because it's We actually, I think, formed and proposed these budgets at the department level prior to a 30 to 40% increase in fuel costs. We've done a good job in previously, and I think we'll do good in the future with that. That's department generally speaking. Sam will now go into each specific fund and the capital project anticipated for funding in fiscal year 27.

Yeah, so our capital program is divided between a couple funds. So we have in the 100 fund, we have the general fund towards capital. There's a streets fund towards capital. So you'll see those in the 100, 145 numbers. The 300 fund also has some of our capital. And then the 510 fund, the water and wastewater collection has capital funds in it. And the 580 fund, our stormwater fund. So our capital expenditures are across all of those funds. So I'm not going to talk necessarily budget line items, but I'm just going to talk what we do with those funds. So first off, a little update on maybe where some projects are that you're seeing around town, or maybe once you have questions. There's always a little bit of a gap in our reporting on projects. We ask for money for a couple years, and then we go quiet on a project as we're designing it, getting it ready, you might not hear about it, and then we go build it. So some of these projects we've funded in the past, and you probably haven't heard of them for a while, so I guess give you an update on some of what you're seeing around town and what's upcoming. 1250 North, 200 East, behind Home Depot and the mall site, the Target now. We just turned on a traffic signal last Friday there. So I hope you're enjoying that.

It looks very, very nice. It does. I used to.

Happy experience. Good, good.

When a traffic light is an experience, you guys have done well.

Kudos. To make you more excited, it's actually not quite fully operated yet, but it will be soon. It's not as smart as it will be.

It's not as smart as it will be. It will be. It will be just a couple weeks. 1100 North, we did a waterline upgrade up by the hospital on 400 East, 1100 North. That was last fall and finished up this spring, so those recently were completed. Under construction, the photo there is the Main Street underpass that has been causing less frustration than we thought on Main Street, but a little bit of a lot of frustration. That is... Traffic is now back open mostly. We'll have one or two more little shorter closures. But we're anticipating that being done this summer, so that'll be exciting to walk into Main Street.

We don't get to see it often, so I want to. Main Street was reopened to four lanes almost two weeks ahead of schedule. I know. I was going to call that.

I saw that. Ahead of schedule.

I'm probably going to say that every time I see you from now on.

Just remember.

We don't get to.

Yeah, we're really excited about that project. That was a long time. I think I started on that as an intern, so it's a long time coming. You're very aware of our water tank project up at the ropes course on USU. That is progressing. We've still got probably 18 months left of heavy construction on that. And our water transmission line connecting that tank is slated to be completed this year, 2026 calendar year. The surface improvements on Canyon Road will not be done this year. They've still got more time, but the water line itself will be done.

So will Canyon Road, I'm assuming you're not patching the road before you redo the surface, so will it just be like a dirt, mud thing through the winter?

Darren and his staff have been doing a great job making a plan for that. It's a bit of a mess right now, which is understandable.

I'm just curious what residents can expect for the winter.

This is a diversion from what we're talking about. It's sort of... What made it change from you could get to Rudy's from the canyon to you could get to Rudy's from... Sam might have got a call about this.

I was confused.

It changed multiple times just depending on where the crew is and what they're working on.

Okay.

And truly we probably based that decision on safety. versus convenience.

Oh, I know.

I know, but it was just... Did you go the wrong way this morning? Yes.

Did you go the wrong way this morning?

Not this morning, because I knew, because I had done it, and I happened to go the right way.

I went the wrong way. And it's been, yeah, but it does change, and it's been...

I figured maybe they were doing part of the part that goes under the river, or if work services that one spur piece that we have?

So there's three crews that work on that waterline in different aspects of it. We have them down here by City Hall on Second West. We have one on Third North going east. There's different areas. Canyon Road has had one to two crews on it. We're doing utility relocations and then waterline installation. And there's also a crew up on Quail Way. It's all the same project, but different parts of the waterline. Sorry, long story short, they moved regularly. They finished up by Herms End with a portion of the water line.

Okay.

And then they jumped back down to Crockett Avenue or near Crockett Avenue to do a whole bunch of valve relocation so that we could prepare for a second crew to start working down there. And now they've gone back up to go from Herms End to the water, or to the Smash Lab, USU Smash Lab, to finish that portion. That's the reason it changed recently. All of this with the ultimate goal that we can get one-way traffic eastbound on Canyon Road for an extended period of time and not do these switches ongoing. And then to your question, The plan for, I don't want to call it long term, but winter and all that, it does change a little bit. But yes, our hope and goal is that there won't be gravel and patches for the wintertime. We just don't know exactly where that will be. We hope it's the eastbound condition, and then we can do some temporary patching and that kind of thing. Right now, if we were doing temporary patching every time we do it, we'd be tearing it up three weeks later and then do it again. So it's a balancing act of...

I just figured if the water line is going to be done this year, but the road line is going to be done until next year, what are we doing in the interim?

Welcome to Caney Road.

I washed my car yesterday and then I drove to Caney Road this morning.

Are you alerting public when that changes? Because it's changing so frequently right now and you probably not.

To the best of our ability, yes. We have an email group that they're sending out a weekly update for anticipated to anybody that's signed up for that email group through the link in the group. when we early in the project we were doing even door hangers and that sort of thing for access interruptions especially if your driveway is going to be inaccessible we have to alert and we've been doing that with door hangers right now it's mostly the weekly email and then big picture we do keep an update on our website but that's much more big picture versus weekly changes yeah going through that And we just recently started inviting George, our new public relations person, to not every construction update meetings to get a lot of details, but the bigger ones and he can help either give the message out or help our team with, hey, here's some ideas on messaging and how to do that.

So the person that you hired that manages the traffic for the construction projects, I don't remember his name, Maybe he only works for the big... No, no, for Google. I don't know if he's just managing the traffic for the Google project.

So you're talking about our part-time inspector that was overseeing the Google work, okay.

Yeah, he does a really good job. Bruce? Yeah, he does a really good job.

He does. As a matter of fact, today, he started full-time in our engineering division as a full-time employee. We had a civil engineer leave to go to North Salt Lake and Bruce interviewed and we selected him. He's awesome.

Yeah, he does.

So he's now full-time on our staff as a staff engineer.

But I've been very impressed by the fact that there's a lot of signs, there's a lot of cones, there's a lot of traffic management around the construction and I think it's done very well.

So what that really means now is nobody's managing Google. We are transitioning to someone, but Bruce is still helping with that. It's been great having him. If you recall, that was one of the discussions we had about permit fees and how to fund that. So it was very beneficial.

Just tell him that at least I think he's doing a great job.

Well, thank you. As far as upcoming projects, we've talked a lot about the Public Works campus that will be starting this summer. 1000 North, 600 West intersection, that's a project that you have helped us fund over the last couple years. It hasn't started yet. We're waiting on a railroad permit, but that is slated to begin next year.

Are we done with 6 West after that?

Yeah.

No, we're not. It will never end.

We haven't done the light at 400 yet.

I don't want to do any more lights on Six Flags.

I'm so tired of construction on Six Flags. We're going to talk about that. And give me a slide. And then other upcoming that we've already talked about, Senator Bollard is starting here in a couple days. It might have been today that they were officially starting. But it's very upcoming. So those are just some projects that we aren't going to hit talking budget-wise, but you might have had questions about. So now let's kind of focus on roadway projects. I've got two slides on what you'll see in the budget as far as roadway transportation projects. The first one is 100 North or the Thrushwood Bridge into the Island Sumac neighborhood. We've been working on this for a couple of years. The design is now done. We are preparing for bidding. We will be bidding that this fall. with construction plan for next summer. There may be, we coordinate with utility providers at Google Fiber, Xfinity, the natural gas. Those companies, we've told them that they could begin as early as this fall getting their utilities out of our way. So there may be, you may see some work out there. It will be the utility providers, not us. In this year's budget, we're asking for $1.2 million towards that project. Will that fund the entire project? So you've already approved, the council's already approved $6 million for this project. So with that $1.2 million plus, in a couple slides, I'll get to the water department. With the water department fund, the total project budget is just under $8 million. I thought it was multi-millions in my head.

It's way too good of a deal.

I know, it's like, wait a second. So this is our, after this year, this project will be fully funded. Build them all.

And what's the plan for that bridge, just to update it?

Yeah, it is one that needs structural upgrades and enhancements like better pedestrian safety sidewalks, better angle for the intersection. Yeah, it's one that's, I don't want to say concerned us, but it's one that we need to get replaced.

And it's currently the only access to that entire neighborhood. That's true, yeah. So during construction, we'll just ask everybody to park

Carry your cost of order from there.

We are working on a temporary second access, yes. They're going to get some work.

Pontoons. And Ernesto can check us on this, but we sent out letters last week to that Sumai neighborhood giving them some of these details. The next thing you'll see in there is our active transportation sidewalks budget. This is what we use for, for example, the Fifth North Vikings that we did a couple years ago. As we see sidewalks or active transportation needs in the community, we try to use these funds for it. We have upped that from $200,000 to $250,000 this year. So it has grown over the last eight or so years. I think we started out as $100,000, and we've been slowly growing it. So you'll see that line item on the budget. 400 North, 600 West. Melissa, this is the picture there you'll see. Right now it's a T intersection. construction is planned for 2027 to make that a full four-legged intersection with the crossing of the tracks and connect to the former north that's farther west so fill in that missing gap um we are asking for 3.2 million dollars in this year's budget and you have previously approved three million dollars for this project already and then you'll see that last bullet we got a cog grant through the county this last year for 5.8 million dollars for that project we'll be bringing that to you next week for appropriation overall that puts us right about 12 million dollars for that project which is the estimated cost for that project so have we completed the acquisition that was required um across six last of the trailers and um i say the the trailer park and the mobile homes in the mole home park that acquisition is complete we are working with the last business owner they are agreeable we're just working on terms right now okay does that 12 million include money for that acquisition yeah that's all okay okay yeah All right. Continuing roadway. Paul mentioned that we are reprioritizing Class C funds. So Class C funds come from the state gas tax. Every time you fill up your card, a portion based on your road miles gets allocated to your city. So Logan City receives a little bit north of $2 million a year in Class C funds. Historically, Logan City has allocated $1.2 million to our street division, and they use that for asphalt, for chip and seal, for all the salt we use in the winter, paint. So it's kind of our big supplies for our street division. the state has very specific rules on what those funds can be used for have to be transportation related so 1.2 million has always gone towards the street division and we have taken about 600 000 each year and put it towards these big capital projects that you see us talk about that we've been talking about we have noticed that our costs of doing road maintenance are going up as well as our lane miles are going up and the condition of our roads is suffering because of that in working with wit our streets manager as well as heart the previous streets manager we felt like it was the right time to stop putting that 600 000 towards these big capital projects and instead use that $600,000, $700,000 to do heavier maintenance. So instead of chip sealing every road, maybe now we have some money that we can go mill a road and repave it. So there's still going to be large projects, but they're going to be more maintenance. I struggle to use the word maintenance because they probably cross that threshold into capital projects, but it's going to be keeping what we have nice, I guess, maintenance.

Functional. And admittedly, I think that change is probably more on how we handle the projects versus where the money goes. It's still going to almost the same projects, but instead of treating it as a capital project that we're doing, we will route it more through our maintenance arm and hopefully be more proactive as opposed to doing a full road reconstruction. we're going to try to get it earlier and extend its life.

Do you feel like those costs are, I mean, obviously costs of goods and employee costs are going up, but do you feel like we're going to need to allocate more funds over the next 10 or 20 years towards maintenance as lane miles increase and as vehicles get heavier and as, I mean, is this something that you expect to continue to grow over the next decade or two?

I mean, maintenance costs are always higher than we more resources for. We could always do more. I don't anticipate us moving more from capital to this. I don't think that's the right way to view that. Again, I don't think that's really what we're doing here. It's more of a, I don't know, vernacular that we use. Rebranding. Going the same place. But no, I would not anticipate taking capital money to maintenance. I don't think that's a good practice at all. Agreed.

to do a transportation impact fee, that too would go toward road maintenance?

Yes.

It would have to. It would have to go towards transportation purposes.

You're talking transportation utility fee?

Yeah. Yeah. Correct. And I guess that's a great point to make is Paul made that point. This is an example of where those funds could help. The 200 East corridor, as a valley, 200 East out north is called Wolfpack Way by Green Canyon High School. North Logan on our northern boundary has invested through the COG and their own funds money into improving 200 East, making this a larger main corridor for the valley. We've seen UDOT now prioritizing 200 East with the X to Y and 100 to 200 East connection project that has been funded and is currently in the environmental phase, but will be going into construction in three to four years, probably. So I bring this up, and we kind of book in 200 East on the outskirts of Logan. So we feel that we need to put some money towards a study to tell us what do we need to do for 200 East through Logan. This isn't necessarily saying that we're suggesting that we need to rebuild all of 200 East, but give us some help as our partner communities as a CMPO have prioritized 200 East. What does that look like through Logan? So our engineering division this year with this $150,000 will give us a little bit of a roadmap specific to 200 East on what spot improvements we need to do, whether that's specific signals or roundabouts, or if there's some specific lane configuration changes we need to make. We just want to have this more dialed in as we start to work with our partners and UDOT, especially on the south end of town, on what does 200 East look like as it comes through Logan. So that's what that money's planned for. As a result of that study in future years, you'll see 200 East become a project priority corridor.

I think our hope or goal is as best as we can predict where the problems will be rather than react to them and have a roadmap for that.

But I also think we have to be very, very careful because it is a major residential corridor. through Logan and it's not a residential corridor anywhere else. Through North Logan, through Hyde Park, it was just open fields and even down to the X to Y is not a residential corridor. And I think we need to be mindful of that in any decision we make.

And that's, I think that sensitivity is exactly why we felt like this needed extra attention. um then last one of their center street bridge similar to the first north rushwood bridge the center street bridge needs to be updated replaced so we are beginning to put that on our budget sheets get some money started for what do we need to do with that bridge and hiring designers in future years so this is the very very tip of the iceberg of funding and that will show up more in future budget years okay In our water fund, as we've been talking about, the X to Y 100 East, 200 East connection that UDOT has funded, they are funding the service improvements. They do not fund what they call betterments or our utilities. And at UDOT's giving this opportunity, we need to figure out what utilities need to go as a part of that project. So our water fund, and you'll see on the next slide, our sewer fund, are both... putting aside money in this budget year for whatever those betterments need to be to maintain our water system and sewer system. And we don't anticipate construction on that for, like I said, two to four years. It's only in the environmental phase right now. River Park Well, this is in River Hollow Park down on the island. The well casing was drilled many, many years ago. We are now putting money in our budget to equip the well, so to put the pump on, build the infrastructure to connect the well to our water system, build the building. So again, the first of a couple budget years where we'll put money towards that project to build a new well for the city's water sources. And this is a part of our water master plan. We've anticipated this for many years. So just nothing out of our master plan's planning.

As a side note, it's cool to see these types of projects, in my opinion, come through. It was drilled at least 15 years ago. And since then, it's always kind of been a problem of, okay, if we equip that well, where do we put the water? We don't have pipes to put it into to get it anywhere, tanks. So that's why this is, we're looking to bring that on board right after this water tank and transmission line gets on board, because now it's effective to use it. And I don't know if you saw, we had a very large, call it large, water main break over the weekend on Bridger Drive, and similarly, we have pressure zone issues on the west side town and this new tank would have helped alleviate, may not have prevented, but possibly could have prevented a leak like that. So it's neat for me to see these types of projects. It's just that next piece in the puzzle.

That's the geeky engineering.

I know. And that you've been here that long.

Still only 30 years old.

It's amazing how that works. the last one highlighting here is concrete collars this is actually funded partially from the water fund the water or sewer collection fund and the street general capital fund but we put 120 000 between those three funds towards the concrete collars around our manholes and water valves to help the right qualities you drive down the road and it also helps maintain our roads prevent potholes how much is is it to do with just one

I think we're like, depending on whether it's a valve or a mantle, that kind of thing, I want to say between 800 to 3,000 for one. So you can do a lot of them for 120.

And as you've seen, we do that every year, 120,000 a year. So the goal is that we kind of get all of them in the city after a while.

So that stopped them from sinking into the asphalt.

They're really nice when they're out of it.

It really is helpful. They really do help.

um in our sewer collection fund um we've got sewer line projects this is the trench list where we go in under the road without tearing up the road and repair either spots or a little bit longer sections so we've got 150 000 towards that um that those funds are um kind of what's the hot potato in the sewer department at that time that's where those go The 1200 South sewer, this is the sewer line by Les Schwab Tires, the south side of the South Walmart. This is the main connection from Providence City to Logan City to get to the wastewater treatment plant. This line is primarily used by Providence City's flows. We have a very negligible portion of the flows. So this is a joint project with Providence City. They're funding most of it. We have a small portion. It's starting this summer. Like I said, since Providence City's the primary funding agency, we hold all the contracts. It's our asset, but they're reimbursing us. So we haven't had to come for budget for it up until now. And our portion will be $300,000 or less to get that new sewer line. So that'll be starting here, honestly, in the month.

What's the total cost on that? Do you estimate?

The budgeted amount, I think, was like $2.4 million. I think the bids actually came in pretty favorable on that. I think it was right around $2 million for the overall design, construction, and construction management.

Thank you.

And then like we talked about, X to Y and 100 to 200 East connection, the sewer department is also putting in $400,000. So between this water and sewer, we've got a million dollars for future needs there. In our capital, so public works, like Paul mentioned, we manage the facilities for the city, including the police department. The police department building is nearing its 20-year-old mark and will need a new roof in a couple years so we will be putting aside it's 75 000 this year 75 000 next year and i believe in the third year it's 50 or so thousand putting that aside for the next couple years so that in two to three years we can replace the police department we tell them we'll just deal with the leaks i'm just kidding

Police Department connected with City Hall?

It was an addition.

Oh, an addition. So the roof is that age? Yeah. Okay.

That's kind of a not-so-brief overview of our capital plans for the next couple years. Any questions, we can answer capital or just general public works.

Wait, I asked all my homework.

I just interrupt throughout the process. Any other questions for Sam or Paul? I have one last one. When you get that 10 million gallon water tank done but not full of water, can I come take a look?

Sure.

Why are you shaking your head? I thought you were going to say, can I swim in it? No, no, not full of water. I promise I will be sanitary. I don't know. It's a big tank.

It'd be interesting to be... Yeah, it'd be cool to go see. I don't think you get to go inside of it. He just wants to look inside of it.

We'll get you in at one point, but maybe a floor has a roof or something like that.

That'd be a better idea. Yeah.

Or one has a roof. That'd be cool. Thanks, Paul and Sam. Thank you very much.

You can stand in the middle and go, can you hear me now? I know.

I want to sing a song in the middle of it. They are one of the most amazing echo chambers. I just think it would be interesting.

When they're empty, they have a rock thrown on top. It's a different sound than I've ever heard. Really? That'd be cool.

Well, with that, let's wrap. I mean, sorry. Rich. You want to take us through our proposed property tax impact schedule? Sorry, what's that?

Can I take him a second to go to the restroom? Yeah.

Do you want to pull a short recess before Rich dives into it? We'll take a three-minute recess. We'll take a break.

We'll return in three or four minutes.

We will turn the time over to Rich to run us through our proposed property tax impact schedule for Logan City, for the city of Logan. Do I need to wait for Teresa to push a button?

We're just waiting for the video to start.

Oh, okay. Should I restart it?

I didn't... Say it yet, Jeff. There we go. We're on. Jeff, you can call it.

We're going? We're going. Okay. After the recess, we'll turn it over to Rich. Thank you. Property tax schedule. Increase the thing. So, the...

Let's 1st, 1st of all, this revised fiscal year 2027 property tax impact schedule for the city of Logan. Is on the back table right now for anyone that wants a copy. Oh, all of our public all the public or anybody else.

She has been here through this whole meeting. I think she deserves a candy bar at the end or something because we are.

It is also on our website. LoganUtah.gov, finance department, and financial information along with the budget and everything else, it's right there. So if anybody wants a copy can access it through the finance website. I am required to read every bit of this, so I'm going to read it 1st, so that we cover all the statutory requirements. And then we'll come back and we can have some discussion about it and then. The chief percent, but here we go. This is the year 2027 property tax impact schedule for the city of Logan. The city of Logan is considering levying a property tax rate that exceeds the certified tax rate. The fiscal year 2027 proposed budget includes a property tax rate increase as follows. The approximate dollar amount of the ad valorem tax revenue that would be generated for the city of Logan is 1.360 million. On this schedule, I had 1.37, but you'll see why. It's 1.360. The approximate percentage increase in tax revenue for the city of Logan from this increase is 22.88%. The approximate percentage increase to the amount of property tax paid in total, not just to the city of Logan, on average residents would be 0%, and we'll explain why. The approximate percentage increase on the amount of property tax paid in total, not just to the city of Logan, on an average commercial property, because of this increase, is 0%. cash county ordinance 2026-23 reduces the cash county general levy for fire service it is intended that the city of logan proposed property tax increase will not increase the overall property taxes paid by logan residents amounts that were paid to cash county for fire service would instead be paid to logan city to be used for fire service the additional property tax dollars are proposed to be used as follows In the non-departmental department, fund additional street lighting utility expenses of $54,614. The operational impact, non-departmental will be able to pay the full cost of calculated street lighting utility fees to the electric department. The police department fund a police officer one position for $131,086. The operational impact is that the police department will be able to fund one additional position. Otherwise, that position would have to be eliminated. The fire department fund the ongoing operational cost of new station 73 for $1,174,000. $300 the operational impact the fire department would be able to fund the operational cost of new station 73 Otherwise Logan would either have to reduce service in another area of the budget or reduce fire service the total of these specified increases is one point three six zero million That fulfills that requirement again Cash county 2 weeks ago, past resolution 2026 23, it increased their fire district. Logan is not serviced by the fire district. Therefore, our residents will not be affected by that increase that they pass. At the same time, they are decreasing their general levy to all cash county residents, including mobile residents. that is reducing our levy by approximately $1.360 million. So our proposal is that we raise our proper tax rate by the amount that Cache County is decreasing their rate and we allocate that percentage to those services that I listed there with the majority of it going toward fire and the operations of station 73. Our rate increase, if council passes this, we will have a, we will hold, so if council intends to pass this as it's written out, we would hold public hearings for our budget, which we would tentatively adopt on June 16th. And then we would have a separate property tax, Truth and Taxation public hearing that's anticipated for August 11th at 6 p.m. So anything that we do now will have those public hearings that will follow. Did I cover this? I know we talked about this a little bit. But the intent, although it would show up when we advertise those hearings as a 22, roughly 22.8, 23%, it'll probably drop down to like a 21% increase just because of the new calculations on values. Probably somewhere in that range, although it will be advertised as that because we have no control over that. The way those figures are calculated is done by the state. The intent is that our Logan residents would not see a property tax increase because of our actions. Instead what they would get is the property taxes that were paid to Cache County that were for fire service would then be paid to Logan for fire service and thereby we'd be able to open station 73 at some point in the near future and operationally fund that.

But we're also putting in We also put into that amount because originally we were going to increase property taxes by 3%. That's true. And so now we are taking some of the fire money and using it not for fire.

So the intent there again was not to raise taxes above what Cache County is decreasing taxes for our residents. because of that we did have to decrease the amount that's going toward fire in other words we're not asking for that full amount back because we already were planning for this three percent increase for those other purposes that we've discussed the police officer the utility fees that we can't avoid so i think rather than asking for a 25 increase with that being a three percent overall increase to the revenue that Logan City was getting. We just said, we can live on the 1.36 million. We can roll in those other items that we were requesting this year. And although opening that station is going to be difficult, and this doesn't fund all the pieces of that station, it comes very close, and we can fill in those gaps over the coming years, including capital replacement, apparatus, and those types of things. Now, this covers the operational cost of Station 73. It doesn't cover the capital cost. Those are some things that we will have to come up with over the coming years. But because of our current contract with North Logan, some of those funds can help fund the station. We have other capital funds that are generated by the fire department currently through their contracts with other cities. We can take those funds and allocate them toward the new station. In addition, we are earning interest on some of the funds that we have already appropriated, but we have not spent. And we can allocate some of those toward this future station. All of that would come to council in the future for some sort of approval. But over the next two to five years, we could generate the funds necessary to build the station, and these operational funds will fund it. In the meantime, these operational funds will go toward capital. Until it's done. Until it's done.

So we're going to save it.

There you go.

Until we have enough to build the station or the station becomes a necessity. Yes. Just so I know exactly what you were saying between capital and non-capital.

And it's very difficult to predict, but I see that happening building the station as soon as two years from now and as distant as five years from now, having the capability to build a station. When we actually pull that trigger, it would be up to council.

Thank you.

Questions for Rich? We also have Chief Thompson here, and I know he has a small presentation if we want to go through that before we pick Rich apart, or we can continue to pick on Rich.

I have a quick one. So you're saying that we're not going to do the 3% tax increase if we do this?

This would be the 3% as well as? Rolled into it.

The 3% would be taken off the top.

Yeah, because still we're sitting at not increasing the dollar amount that people are paying for their taxes.

And the reason for that really is, you know, we are required to disclose the percentage that it would increase overall taxes on a residence. Well, rather than having to say 3% with 22% and people becoming confused, I thought, you know, it's better to present it this way. It's 22% increase to revenue that Logan receives. However, your overall impact is zero. So I believe that's better.

Have you run this by the state? Can we actually write it this way?

I have no idea. Of course, I don't think they have any idea either. I mean, I talked to the state tax commission who's responsible for this, and I don't know how we actually calculate something that isn't within our control. There are three other taxing entities that participate in the overall profit tax that someone is paying. So this should pass muster. Regardless, there is a... provision within the statute that says as long as you try and did a good job, and I think we're doing a good job of trying, that they won't fail us this first year. However next year they might. So how does this conversation impact

What if the county turned around and didn't do anything at all? How would this conversation impact that decision?

I think it would be very unlikely that anything will happen other than what we've presented because they've already set those wheels in motion. However, until it's in black and white, we can't really see it. Once it is in black and white on those disclosure forms that go to residents, worst case scenario, if it does not turn out the way that we are anticipating and then intents are changed where they can be, we can change what we're proposing.

So we can reduce what we're proposing?

We could. So because we're putting this forward, we can reduce these amounts But we cannot substantially change that other than reduce it. We can't increase and we can't change it to another purpose without redoing this part of the hearing.

Okay.

But we can because we have gone through this stage.

If it all went south, we could take out the big number and just have the two little numbers. Correct.

But then we're raising 3%.

Then we'd be raising 3% almost.

And actually paying. I mean people would be paying more. Yeah.

One other thing that's super important. Katie's touched on this several times. So let's just say that this 22.88% is, an actual increase in the city of Logan in Cache County does not do anything. What would be the impact there? Well, it would be about a 2.75% overall increase to people's taxes. Because we're at 11% to 12% of the overall taxes, 11% to 12% of 23% is about 2.75%. So even though 22% is shocking, and I realize that, To put it in perspective, it's 2% of their overall property taxes. And we're talking roughly $70 on the average home, which is $530,000. So $70 per year is the amount we're talking about. This is how I talk to my wife into new cars.

Just so you know. It sounds exactly like this.

But just to make it very clear, that $70 average is what we're discussing that would remain unchanged. Correct. I just want to make that clear.

It just goes in a different pot.

Exactly. It's being pulled out of county and then allocated for these proposed purposes and for a net difference on the property tax for the Logan resident. That's correct.

Can I throw a wrench in it just a little bit?

What kind of wrench?

A monkey one.

This is what everything I've said is accurate. However, individual property tax payers are treated differently as the county reassesses certain properties over here on this side and doesn't assess these What that means is the tax burden shifts to these that they've reassessed. The overall amount does not change, but there is a little bit of a shift. And what happens is, I think they look at one-fifth of the city or one-third of the city per year. There is some shifting that happens, and those people will see some big changes to the property tax rate. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. But there could be some shifting that happens. It's just the way our laws are written. It's the way truth and taxation works. It would happen regardless. It would happen regardless. But it would happen regardless. You're absolutely correct. Yeah.

That's not a very big wrench.

Yeah, but I mean it's understanding.

Question, hypothetical question. Did I hear that at the state legislature they were considering putting a cap on how much we can increase tax? So if that had passed, could we even be having this discussion?

No. More likely no. I don't know what the law would have said. It possibly could have had a caveat for this type of thing where somebody's decreasing, somebody's increasing. But more than likely, no, we could not have this conversation. And here's the problem. Assume for a moment Chief is going to make the case. But assume for a moment that we really need this and we need it right now and we have to pass property taxes. We would have no way of funding that station. because this takes a 20% increase and if our cap is five, we would be in a real pickle. Cut in budget. That would not be a, now that's probably why the tax did not pass. That tax cap, that law probably did not pass for that very reason, but it's scary to think it could in the future and we may not have the ability to deal with something like this in the future. That's why this is an opportunity for us to address an issue that we know is coming.

Okay, I'm going to ask the question. If we know it's coming, how have we been planning for it so far?

The Chief will address some of that.

Okay.

He'll address some of that. What we've been doing in the interim, but I can verify we've been talking about this for a long time and like I do, I've been pushing it as far as I can in the future because We always knew we could never deal with this issue, opening station 73. I had no operational way of dealing with it. I couldn't prepare for it other than to do a 5% increase over a five-year period. But for reasons that the chief can speak to more than I can, it's hard to open a corridor station. Now, you can hire people and you can put them in other stations. But it's hard to open a quarter of a station. It's hard to open half a station. It's hard to open three quarters of a station. You either have a station or you have no station.

Or you just, you know, you've planned for it and you built the building and you have no way to staff it.

Yeah, that's true. And that would be tough as well.

So what was the plan before?

The plan, so we're going back 20 years, was to have the airport build the station. and Stafford.

But that's not going to happen.

That's not going to happen. No. But that's the 20-year-old plan. Five years ago, there was a little different plan. We could combine with North Logan and make some sort of concessions on both sides where we're operating a station that's in North Logan. And that's kind of a band-aid approach, and the chief will speak to that. That was our more recent. I don't know if there's another interim step. Possibly we have talked about this. We hire a couple firefighters. We house them in the station 70 or someplace else. And we try to get to a point where we've got some capability to respond. I don't know, Chief, do you want to?

Sure. Do we have any questions for Rich before? I think we should just turn it over to you for...

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, my intent was I was asked to educate on Zone 73 and some of the background information. So I circulated that presentation before the weekend for hopefully people to be able to look through it and have some questions for me to help clarify. Because it's a lot of data. And I get it. And you go back to these, you know, these issues of, well, why wasn't it? In the language of the current North Logan Logan consolidation agreement in our interlocal agreement in 2026, this is the year it said by now you cities are going to decide what we're going to do with the north end of this coverage area. North Logan has a problem. We had this growing problem in the northwest side of Logan City. So here we are and it happens to it was. completely ironic that this whole thing happened with the district so the timing is we were supposed to get this solved by now and we are moving forward the biggest piece was how do we deal with it financially how do we come up with the capital so you can imagine from my viewpoint not being a part of the district that money coming available specifically for fire is like wow there finally we have monies that were intended for fire what logan city taxpayers have been spending the entire existence of the district is finally coming back to Logan. My opinion is that that piece is probably a done deal. I mean unless something catastrophic happens, Logan City was their first priority. Where we're seeing some issues in terms of the plan being a little more dynamic is how do they deal with the remaining district cities and the revenues. The biggest question I get is how is the county going to replace the money, the 1.3 million from Logan City? That's the question I get the most often. So their plan is most of those monies will actually come from the unincorporated part of the county. They've built their new formula that's changed a lot based off of those unincorporated areas actually covering that difference from losing Logan taxpayer money. I know that was George Daines when his primary objectives is taking, you know, getting the Logan money out and replacing it with county dollars. So that to me was a good and it made me feel good that, hey, this is finally probably going to happen. so with that were there some things in this because i know everyone's been here a long time i don't really necessarily need to take you through the entire piece unless some you know unless council hasn't seen it um can we run through it i know we've all seen it you bet Yeah, absolutely.

But for the public record, that was online. Yeah, let me take you through. It's not super long. Yeah, let's just go through it.

But yeah, as the brief history, as Rich mentioned, you know, this has been, you know, I came to Logan in 2003. I remember when Chief Meeker came, it was on the long-term plan of Logan City. And I've seen that through three or four different fire chiefs. Now, We always have known that the Mount Logan area, that the southeast furthest point of Logan City and the northwest part of Logan City were always our slowest response times. We've seen that data, we've known that data. The pressure on us going to the southeast side of Logan City is much less frequent than our traveling to the northwest side of Logan City. And so that has stayed a big concern for us in terms of our response times. And we briefly talked to, you know, in March 2020 after that small earthquake, the fact that downtown Logan Station was early 70s, didn't really have the seismic stability that it should have for a public safety building. There was concern about us being able to roll our fire apparatus out even after a moderate earthquake. It quickly became the focus of of getting replaced as soon as possible. So we worked through that project. It's a beautiful station, as we know. And with that, knowing that we were prolonging us dealing with Zone 73. So what did we do? Well, we consolidated with North Logan in 2020. We took over their operations through their fire department. 2020 put our firefighters in at least the better proximity on the north end of town. Knowing that we were responding from 1200 east, at least we now had firefighters on the north side of Logan and North Logan. It helped both of our cities tremendously. And you've got 2500 north and 1800 north, 1400 north. Those are pretty, you know, good east-west arteries that allowed us to get there, still knowing we were falling, you know, three and four minutes behind probably where we were supposed to be for the NFPA 17 standard. So that's what we've done. And we've used that since we've had that contract in place with North Logan since 2020, with 2026 budget being the year to look at, hey, what are our options for a fire station to deal with the growing northwest side? And like we've kind of already gone through the restructuring of the county fire district. I kind of already shared with you that. So were there really questions as to, Rich explained this super, super well. So I don't know if we'd really necessarily need to go through this. Third bullet here though, with that growth, I already mentioned the National Fire Protection Agency, the 1710 standard. That covers how many firefighters should be in a firehouse, how fast we should be getting turned out, how fast we should be getting to scene. Well the one this one focuses on is from dispatch to arrival. That standard says for a career fire department, we should be on scene with our first unit in four minutes or less. Okay. Additionally, we have a resource center coming to Logan that's the Tri, I believe it's the Tri-County Receiving Center for Mental Wellness. It's almost complete. We don't anticipate a huge surge there, but it could be as many as 100 people. 80 to 120 calls annually. We're waiting to see. I just checked in with the Farmington Fire Chief. I talked to Shelby the other day. They've got a very similar center down in, just outside of Bountiful, just right there on the edge of Farmington and Bountiful. And she says it averages about 100 calls a year. None of that data is in my data that I shared with you. It was just that knowledge of knowing that that's coming and it's going to bring with it immediately 100 more calls. So that's something we need to be... We knew it was coming for about four or five years and now it's here. I think we could all agree that what we've watched happen with the congestion on Main Street specifically in that corridor, traffic, it seemed like within two or three years changed tremendously down the corridor. I don't need to spend time on other than it adds additional risk for that crossing back and forth between that area. Our people do... phenomenal job dealing with it. But when they're running lights and sirens, it does tend to slow them even more, trying to be very careful through that area. So zone 73, so where that is, just to give you that idea, pretty much the West, as you look at the red box, the Western border, the Northern border are pretty much fixed. That's gonna follow the Western barrier or the Western boundary of our response zone, what we actually call officially, if you can see the blue lines in these, currently zone 73 is an area it's not a specific response zone that our dispatch center actually sends us to it's an area we monitor with our data the blue lines are the response zone areas and those right now make up station uh 120 which is zone 12 and station 71 and 71 s those are the blue lines that dispatch uses so you can see we're tracking data in the combination of two and three different response zones. Now where we haven't decided is where, based on, I've got some data here later on I'll show you, the east boundary and that south boundary are going to be the ones that we have to adjust to make sure we balance the call volume correctly. Our big problem tends to be the north and the west. The closer you get to 10th North and 400 East in that area, you're starting to converge in other stations. You can see the red dots. Those are the closest stations to that area right now, you know, up on 1200 East. So that's something that still has to be fine-tuned. But we had to draw the line for the data. Lots of information here. Councilman Johnson asked me, he said, Nate, can you get us some more data? So what I've done is pulled you a nice cross section and the table that's in the bottom right with the bar graph, those are our actual times into zone 73 in the red box indicated by the numbers. Those are the actual number of calls that I pulled throughout that area for you. Clear out to 10th West and Airport Road. clear up to the 1800 north, those areas. And what we do is the upper right dial, we use the 90th percentile to actually measure. That's the one universally across the fire service we use to look at data. Because we'll typically poll. What that does is if I have the 50 calls or the 56 calls, They like to take our five fastest times out of there. It's like those are anomalies. We want to see that data. We want to see your data without those fastest times. Now, if you look at my bar graph, you've got some unique anomalies. There's one in September, there's one in October, there's a couple in November that were extremely fast. Most likely, those we had units probably in the area that were able to get on scene first, and that's good. That's great for that area. But the concerning piece should be really the 10 minutes and 56 second response time with the 90th percentile. Even going down to averaging all calls, we're at 7 minutes 11 seconds for first unit on scene from there. And in other parts of Our districts, particularly in the urban center, we are typically three to four, even sometimes four and a half minutes, we do pretty good. I wish I could say we nail this standard all the time, but it's our goal, right? I mean, that's where we try to hit, the way we're staffed, the distances we're traveling. It's our target always, but we do our best and we've done our very best for two decades as I've watched that in that northwest side of town. And in the urban center, you know, sometimes we're a little slower than the four minutes because we're on two or three calls at the same time, right? It's just the nature of the beast. So that's the data from those, the 53 calls I pulled from 73. And, you know, hopefully, does that answer questions on the dials and where those come from?

Yeah. I'm assuming with your upper control that 45-minute call wasn't included?

yeah so if you look at the yeah yeah so when you take those out of that that here again is your ten percent anomaly uh that was probably a standby for uh uh probably an air ambulance that was coming in you know uh fixed wing into the airport probably and they were there for a while waiting for a baby to be flown out or flown in or whatever so you get those but that's just the nature of the beast of the ems so but that's not included in your average there Okay, so the history of the growth. So I have left the North Logan information in here because I just want everyone to understand that it's a complicated deal and we are renegotiating a contract with them for hopefully the next at least four years and as long as we are able to work together. Because our EMS licensure includes the North Logan see uh our bureau bms license by law we have to cover and protect that area as we said we would in rfp when we did that in the fall said hey you'll cover that the way the law reads now is when it reopens in 2029 north logan would say hey we you know we may want to try something else i personally don't see that happening but that's the way that law that's what the law allows them to do now So, you know, the coverage at Cache Valley Hospital and throughout North Logan, as you can see, adds to the call volume for that station indicated with the red circle there just right under North Logan. Just right there, right now, excuse me, in 2021, that area when we took them over, we were about 53% Logan calls, about 47% North Logan calls. You can see those numbers there. Now, what the quarter of IFTs are that I've circled at Logan Regional Hospital, Why I have to do that is every all 4 stations right now in the Logan system rotate through taking out of county inner facility transfers from hospital down south. So I have to include a quarter of those for our station for you to get a good feel for what else are they doing on top of that? And that station, even in 2021, if we were to have had a station that was covering zone 73 all by itself, we would have already been at 1,349 runs. When you fast forward now to 2025, that same area with those North Logan calls, you're up to 1,918 total runs with a quarter of the IFTs. And still the ratio, pretty similar, a 54% Logan, 40%, 6% North Logan. And I look at the 1,900, and I know what that number means. To me, I have to look and say, well, we are probably going to have to adjust the boundary. That would literally make this our busiest firehouse in Logan City Fire Department. So we'll have to probably move some boundaries a little bit. And they are movable, particularly the south and the east. So as you can see, 42% increase in that zone in just that four-year time span. Now, Mike asked me, and the mayor asked me, let's look at the data without North Logan. And this is probably just more for you just for additional information. Hey, well, what does it look like without them? Now, you notice my number at the hospital goes down. The reason I do that, once I pull what we would call ST-120 or ST-12 out of this data, unfortunately, my data gets a little bit dirty to be totally honest with you it's not super clean because now i'm pulling one station's rigs and their station that's been assigned to a quarter of those ifts to that hospital out now so now you're not seeing 120 participating at all in there so this would be more or less just for calls that would be logan city based and still you're 664 calls without their information back in 2021. And then as we bounce to last year's data, that bounced up to 853 calls. So even without North Logan, you're about a 28 and a half percent increase. So what does that look like? That's why I said look, you know, 1900 calls, Station 70 downtown has always been the busiest and will continue to do so. I just kind of wanted to pull the current Station 120 data for you. 1,223 incidents in 2025, they are the primary station that responds out there to 73. And so you can see by dealing with those boundaries for that zone, we would probably have to move some to make sure, because I don't really have the ability in terms of resources to manage 1,900 calls there. We built our urban center fire department with additional personnel. We've got our critical care paramedic, an additional person to help staff an extra rescue when needed. So we would pull that boundary a little bit and probably try to keep them more in the 1,400 range on calls. But that at least gives you an idea of how that 1,900 calls compares to the 1,200 they're actually currently running with the zones drawn the way they are now. So in summary, and it is just a fact, in those areas, we do have people waiting for service longer, three minutes or longer in that zone right now. We've seen the growth. We know that there's new neighborhoods there. There's no going to be newer commercial in that as the city continues to expand that way. And here again, combined with the timing of the county's move with the district dollars now being able to come into Logan City, dollars for the fire department, really, we can't build one overnight. It takes time. It's going to take time to grow money and get our...

Rolling stock in line with our apparatus, but you know, we felt like the timing is near perfect for this Questions, there's the overview there So I do have a question You talked about the number of calls that if you if you separated out Logan in that Geographic area. Did you say? 83

853.

853. Yep. Then you just said that there were 1,200 incidents in that area. Did the 1,200 incidents?

That's including North Logan. Yeah, so with our actual data from 2025 is right here. So see the red box, that large red box? Right. In that area, with 2025's data, With North Logan and Logan numbers, you would have had 1,918 total runs between the two cities.

But when you had the other graph, there were only 1,200 incidents.

Your bar graph is down three slides, I think.

Yeah.

Correct. So remember, so see the blue boxes? See the blue lines? So remember, the red box is our area, Zone 73, right? That's the area that we've been tracking. But remember these blue lines. See the blue box that runs down Main Street? You can see the North Logan Zone. See North Logan City? You can see the blue box that goes around there, okay? That one right there is what we would call Zone 12, and that is this number right here. They were assigned 1,223 of the calls, and they all were generated in their area, that blue box in their zone, plus a quarter of the IFTs.

But that's all North Logan.

It is. So with this though, those are the calls that we actually ran last year. You'll notice there's no station 73 or engine 73. Our current zones match the stations, 12, 72, 71, 70. So that's why when we gather this data, So when you come up here to 25, see the numbers in the Upper East Side of Logan and North Logan? See the, for example, the 7 and the 14 up on their East Bench? None of that data is counted in this data. Someone now, in the future, someone will have to run those. We only are giving you data for what would be happening if we redrew those blue boundaries into my big red box right there. That would now become its own zone. And that station, the red circle in North Logan, that red dot would move west down into about the center of this box for responding.

This is Pompeia. Some question, but I know you have talked about, you know, crossing main street and that can just so the red box is still going over main street. It does. Share with us just so we understand.

No, no, sure. I think it's a totally, I think it's an excellent question. Mike asked me the same thing. So the way things are, unless we're willing to draw the line right down main street.

Yeah, right.

If we want to put it on main, then we probably solved our problem. We also have the realities of not being able to have a station everywhere. We want it. So our thinking was it with them being much closer to main street. So now we're going from 1200 days to hopefully 200 West, maybe 400 West is the area we've been looking. They're much, much closer to that area for response. Yes, they still have to cross. That's something we're going to have to decide is, is that is that worth it? If we draw the line on main, then the East station could cover the main street and the West could cover today. It certainly could be, but for purposes of where the call volumes are and being also, I think. Consider to the inner local agreement between Logan and North Logan, the contract specifically said that 2 cities will look at the data and recommend areas that are the best. And some of this data that see that 534 calls right there in the circle that's in the center of that zone. That 534 is Cache Valley Hospital, it's Pioneer Valley Lodge, it's Maple Springs. Two of the biggest users of our system, or three of the biggest users of our system in that area, and they all are west of that 400 east. So we're just going to have to decide, hey, where are we going to draw the line and do our best, and if we have to change it, we will. But no, that's an excellent question.

So Nate, how many... calls or incidents, at what number do you say, oh my gosh, we are overwhelmed everywhere else, we need another station?

At what number? Well, I think what we'll do, we typically will look at redundancy in calls in terms of how many simultaneous calls that we have. That's data we look. I'm a little frustrated, the new nearest system, which is the new national incident response system that's that we report all of our call data to, it is not as good a data as our old system from NFIRS, unfortunately. In the NFIRS system, and we had to switch over January 1 of this year, we're hoping that some of that data is going to come back. I can at least look at previous year's data, but as I look at three or four or five calls simultaneous, once that percentage is sitting much higher where we don't have units available, which happens quite often with that information, that's the data we'll typically use in terms of determining like, hey, we need more bodies. We'll usually use that to say, we need one more rescue company in service. So if I can see that all three or four stations are busy 25 to 35% of the time, That's dangerously low in resources. Because at that point, now we're asking our mutual aid partners to come in and cover calls in Logan. Happens occasionally, to be honest. You have a big call like the bad crash or a big fire or, you know, MCI or a shooting. I mean, yeah, all of a sudden you're committed and on occasion we'll use mutual aid. But I'll watch those two and three and four calls, simultaneous calls, being answered by our companies and only being available, you know,

40 to 60 percent of the time so it doesn't have anything to do with like 1400 calls So it stipulates that you need a station. Correct.

Yeah, it's the utilization of the units and the personnel. And that's why we watch how often they're being utilized. Our trend tends to be higher, probably percentage-wise, because we're very isolated here in Utah, specifically. Our inner facilities, it'll take our rescue companies out of town. 2 and a half to 5 hours depends. We, we lose a rescue company every time we send those. And as you well know, a lot of the times we have 2, we allow 2 out at a time. So, you know, but you said those are going down. What's that?

You said that was trending downward.

Yeah, they've been, they've been pretty flat flat. They're down a little bit. Yep. So that's what we'll watch. That's what I like to do is we'll look at that information in terms of the simultaneous calls and how often our units are out simultaneously and unavailable for 911 service. Do you know how often that happens right now? I don't have it right with me, but I could get follow-up data for sure. Oh, yeah.

for sure yeah you can get that i'd like to actually circle back to the county receiving center and i'm glad actually you brought that to this conversation and that wasn't something that we were really considering or thinking about when this was first shared because um we're talking about county dollars that have been utilized for fire district fire that now.

I'm not.

Are you disappointed?

No, I'm not.

You know where I'm going with this, but you said the low end potentially, I mean, obviously we don't know until it's open, but comparatively with the Farmington Bountiful, you said 50 to 100?

Yeah, yeah. She said 18 years as high as 100, usually 80 to 100. She thought this year they were on track for at least 80, but we're only halfway through the year. So, you know, I think to be safe, you know, you say, well, if it's 100 call, if it's less than 100, we're good. But 100 back into that zone, I mean, now you're 2018 without any change.

And on top of that, I think... what we're looking at again county dollars shifting those over to city for utilization for fire and as it pertains the receiving center that will have a potential impact on police as well so that's something when we so i think those are actually just to be considering you know in this context so i it was useful I'm not saying that's the driver at all. We know that's not the driver. This is a growing area.

But it's reality.

But it's something that wasn't part of the driving that's additive that we need to be You know, taking into all of this for consideration.

Yes. Well, and it's, it'll sit right here, right here on this corner. You can kind of see where I'm circling. Oh, I see. With my mouse. Where is it? The receiving center is right here. It's by the 22. Right by 22. Oh, okay. That's a pretty small airplane pattern. I know, sorry.

I'm trying to slowly get big and red. Circling. Okay. Right there. Tight, tight turn here.

That is what spot did you say?

What's that?

What is that spot? That's the receiving center?

That would be the mental wellness receiving center.

Okay.

Yep.

And that's a tri-county facility run by BRAG.

Yes.

But they're also relying a lot on it being They talk a lot about it being volunteer, like you walk yourself in there.

And it will be staffed 24-7. I believe a psychologist or psychologist Is going to be remote and then it'll be managed by like a physician assistant. So that they'll, the goal is, is to keep people that do check themselves in to keep them out of yours. Unfortunately, we've got this, you know, this epidemic of mental wellness. cases in ERs and the only places for them are specialty resource centers and there's not enough of them. So we transport them anywhere from McKady Hospital clear down to Payson, some of the new ones that have popped up in Utah County. So hopefully their model is successful and it's to keep people that are in crisis from ending up in the ER and giving them a couple of days to recalibrate essentially. So we're hopeful and I was hopeful. I was actually super excited to hear from Shelby that it had only been an impact of about 100 calls annually for her. What we really thought when it first came out, when they first proposed it, it would be substantially more than that. So hopefully the model is working.

More questions for Chief Thompson or Rich?

So I do have a question, Rich. We save this money. We save a million dollars a year. Do we decide it's time to build the fire station when we have $10 million or do we decide it's time to build the fire station when we need it?

I would hope if we pass this that we build it as soon as it's practical. which I would hope is in, well, I'd hope immediately we acquire property and figure out the location and then get a design and figure out how much it would cost approximately and save toward that goal. And my hope again is that that is somewhere between, if we adopt this now, two years from now, maybe the longest form.

And then the money that is released after that station is built would be used specifically for personnel?

Yes.

It would run that station ongoing. Now, over the next two to four years, we need to add a little bit to that. Because one point, although we already have three firefighters allocated at North Logan Station, I believe our shortfall is 1.25-ish, so we're not quite there. But that doesn't cover the ongoing capital or some maintenance. So there's some other costs, but we're not talking huge amounts. We're maybe talking $250,000 to $300,000 ongoing would fund the apparatus as well as the capital of this group.

But we would stick in that $1.2 million amount. I mean, it will increase by some over time, but that money would not go anywhere else.

No, it funds the station.

Is that part of our responsibility to articulate that at this time? Or is that...

I think we have. I think we've said it will fund the operational cost of move station 73.

How does that 1.25 that will go towards operations fit into the roughly two to two and a half million dollars that we say a station costs to run or to operate?

Again, strictly speaking to Logan and how we take care of Logan, we have three firefighters along with some other budget allocated to the North Logan contract. And some admin too. And some admin. That two and a half includes capital or two million, whatever the number is, includes capital and everything else.

Like saving?

Yes.

Thank you.

saving for capital.

Well, for future expansion.

We're half an hour past the deadline.

Everyone's getting tired. No, I mean, I just want to make sure that we're not, that we're doing something that is really a critical need for Logan. Probably not today, but in the future. And that it is A need we can fill this way, but that we also put guardrails on it so that it is only going there. That's where it goes.

Absolutely. That's what it will go to. We don't know the cost of a new station. I'm guessing it's somewhere in the $5 to $6 million figure. I think that will cover it. Station 72... I think the cost was less than a million, but that was- 30 years ago.

That wasn't that long ago. We've had to add on.

You know what, was that the one up by the university?

No, by the university, I think it was 600,000. I think that one's about a million-ish, something in that range. I know. No. Oh, it was? No. It really was.

But the one at the golf course is 30 years old. No.

No, it was built during Meeker's time. 2010 or 12?

They put it in service? Yeah, something like that. 2012, I think. It was a brand new paramedic, yeah.

And I do remember when we built the one up at the university, because the university, they donated the money. Or they donated the property.

Yeah.

And we don't know the actual cost. I'm guesstimating 5 million. If it's 5 million, I think we can get there relatively soon. Now, the other problem is apparatus. Now, the North Logan contract and how that's renegotiated may help us move into that a little smoother than it would otherwise be. But we've got some apparatus that needs to be purchased. In fact, even if North Logan does continue on, their apparatus is mostly used up. So I'm not sure it helps a ton. But we do have an engine and then some other equipment that we would need for this new station.

And how many people would be in that station?

We would originally plan for a total of five, but working four is how that would go. So look at it as four people a day, so 12 personnel total.

So three, is that called three companies?

Yep, three battalions, four people a day out of that station. That's how it runs now up in North Logan. We would run that station. We should be able to manage it with the four daily with that call volume.

So you have 12, we would have 12 additional hires.

Not additional. I mean, really, it's all part of what's being funded now.

There'd be 10 additionally funded with Logan tax dollars.

And you can do that with 1.25.

Yes. 1.174.

Plus some additional in the future.

10 additional employees. Is 10 personnel, yeah.

Firefighters.

10 more than we have today. Yeah.

Is that correct? Salary and benefits.

And we're keeping the money that's going to one police officer as well. That will always be coming from this fund. It will.

from this tax increase, that's what it would be like.

One police officer, 10 firefighters roughly, and I need $54,000. Jump in the ocean.

So what are you hoping to get from this, Mike? What's that? What would you like to have from this?

I mean, this is just a workshop, so.

So it's just a chat chat.

Well, but I did it. But we're not making any decisions. If we're kind of done with this part of the discussion, there's a little bit more that we need to discuss. I'm sorry. We've been holding out. It'll be relatively faint.

Does anyone else have any questions or concerns? You're more to discuss on this tax increase?

It's on this, but it's related to everything else as well.

Are there any more questions for Rich or Keith? It's related to everything else. At age 20.

Before age 20?

Melissa?

I think so. Okay.

From us tonight, you need to know what goes on the June 13th. Is that where we're going? June 16th. June 16th. Yes. Whatever date that is.

That's what I need to know. Obviously, you can't make a decision now because we have to have the public hearing. But I need to know what we bring forward at that public hearing as far as a council proposed is this a share your opinion again we'll put it on the agenda last time should i wave my gavel around again but what i would what we would propose obviously from the administration side is that we put this in the budget as advertised um i will have to show the property tax numbers that i'll get on june 8th And then I bring that to the council meeting to be adopted. Now you can, obviously you can make changes because that's the whole purpose of it, to have the public hearing and make changes if necessary. However, that is a document we have to adopt that day. And if there are extensive changes, we may have to take a break while I run upstairs and recalculate and make sure I'm not giving bad information. That's that's like, but if I could, if I could bring what you most likely are looking for, we've done this in the past where you brought option options, you know, I love this. I need to put one of them in there. And I need to advertise that one thing.

Well, do we have any other options? We have multiple options.

We have all the options in the world. You can do whatever you want. You can say yes, no, or any number in between.

That's true.

You can kill the fire department of it and go back to what the mayor proposed. We can cut their whole button. We can do whatever we want. But realistically, if you feel like the department is in need and what we just discussed is legitimate within the next three to five years, then I think we have to pass... this budget, sorry, this proposed, we have to go down the process of- We have to go down the path. We have to go down that path further.

I will honestly say that I believe that if the need is there and the money is restricted to only be used in that regard, I think we should put it forward for a public hearing.

I agree. Because I think at this point, we've provided some context and rationale for why this is being considered. And I think we should hear from the public and get a sense of what they think about it.

I think we should, too, because we can't really move forward without hearing from them. difficult to, I guess.

Any opinions about Shira and Esther?

I think the presented need of expanding the services there makes sense. And if it's going to take this, I think it's worthy of discussion with the public.

Okay. Put it on the agenda. I will do that. So the next meeting in a week is just a normal council meeting. Unfortunately, I am scheduled to be out, but if there is a fire, I will stay here.

We're trying to keep fire numbers down.

Are you going to send Ruben?

I want to be with my son.

I just don't want to be with him.

No, but are you going to send Ruben in your place? I've never done a council meeting with him. I'm excited. Can we put some things on the agenda to give him a really hard time?

So there's nothing on the agenda regarding the budget for the second meeting, for the June 2nd meeting and then we'll plan on the June 16th. I'll make those changes. I'll make a few minor corrections as we get data on the property tax because we have to adopt the number.

And you'll have the number the same on both sides of the paper.

I think I do need to do this, because I have to have this available in the back of the room. We also have to have it in the packet for the June 16th meeting, as well as the property act chairing on August 1st.

All the noticing has to be entered in these.

All the noticing. Lisa, are you going to make this happen again?

Lots of noticing.

Yeah, notice.

This is stretching her ability as a... Oh, I know.

It's crazy. Okay. Anything else? That is all. Anything else from anyone on the council?