City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you.

Yeah, I do.

Okay, Chairman.

appointed time of 5 30 arrived i would like to call the tuesday july 14th 2026 committee of the whole to order would you please stand and join me for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with no Mr. Clark, would you please take roll?

Yes, ma'am. Alderman Cox. Here. Alderman Gregory. Here. Alderman Williams. Here. Alderman Rockford. Aye. Alderman Purchase. Here. Alderman Netriano.

Here.

Alderman Carlson. Here. Alderman Connolly.

Present.

Alderman Donovan. Here. Alderman Hanauer. Here. Chairman Yip.

I would accept a motion for the approval of the June 30th, 2026 committee meeting. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Yes. Madam Treasurer, would you please present your Treasurer's Report?

Thank you, Madam Chair. The Treasurer's Report for the Corporate Fund for the month of June. Beginning balance is $62,525,826. Total receipts? $23,960,079. We had total disbursements in the month of June, totaling $29,324,104, which left the corporate fund ending balance in the month of June at $57,161,801. The ARPA ending balance was $1,977,000. $870, which is included in the ending balance. That concludes my report. Thank you.

Madam Chair, I make a motion to accept the Treasury report as submitted. Second.

Okay, and there is discussion.

I just have a quick question. Do we have to use the article by the end of the year? No, I don't want to do that. What was it, last year? It could be used by December 31st.

That's when the million was done. Thank you.

Okay, sure. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it. There is a presentation tonight, and the mayor will present for interviews.

Thank you, Chairwoman. Tonight we are going to introduce some folks that have been working on an urban green space design for our downtown Springfield. Tonight you'll hear from Russ Orrell, who's the deputy director at Illinois Department of Natural Resources. You'll hear from Eric Huck, who's the divisional manager of the statewide operations for IDNR. Sam Strain is the Chief of Staff for IDNR, who is here. J.F. Bolinski, their PR person at Public Relations is here as well, Chief Information Officer. Jay Shanley from DSI is here. And Nate Bottom, Chief City Engineer, is here somewhere to help support as well. So I'm going to let Russ take the stage. Russ Orle, the Deputy Director of IDNR, to give you a brief rundown of this beautiful natural space. Russ.

Good afternoon members of City Council. My name is Russ Worrell, Deputy Director with the Illinois Department of Natural Resources and I am here on behalf of IDNR in support of the land donation agreement for the former white block. At the very end there's a conceptual design plan. I think that is probably where we want to go to. I want to start by thanking the City of Springfield, Mayor Misty Buescher, Engineer Nathan Bottom, City Council members, State Senator Doris Turner, and the Governor's Office. Your engagement has been essential in shaping the vision of this new downtown park. In short, IDNR's goal is to create a welcoming, accessible green space in the heart of downtown Springfield, Illinois. The concept plan features all native Illinois landscaping, shaded seating areas, 88 accessible walking paths, and a natural play area for children. The centerpiece of design is a natural stone amphitheater with total capacity for 1,500 to 2,000 people. In the news cycle recently, there's been some confusion. The limestone amphitheater should seat about 500 with turf in the grass seating, seating an additional 1,500, so 2,000 total. This would be... in line with what currently is the Lebanon Music Series downtown Springfield occupancy. And on that note, I would also like to thank Jay and Christy from Lebanon Springfield for their input and feedback. They have been very valuable through this process as well. The park layout aligns visually with the Governor's Mansion and includes interpretive signage to highlight the site's history, including the former YWCA. We also plan designated areas for vendors, mobile restrooms, food trucks, simply to make these events smoother and more family friendly. The state has committed $4 million to this project because we believe it will strengthen downtown Springfield, support tourism, and offer a high quality public space for residents and visitors. This land transfer is a key step forward. Once approved, IDNR is ready to advance the park into final design and implementation. Thank you for your partnership and for considering this land donation agreement. I have a team behind me. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions from the committee.

Sure. First question from Alderman Donlon.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize, everyone. I'm getting used to this new mic, so I haven't had one in a few weeks. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank the mayor, thank DNR, thank the governor's office, thank our state senator Doris Turner, legislators that were involved, anyone behind the scenes that I'm not going to mention here. We hear constantly about the state of our downtown and needing to do something differently. And the fact that this has been talked about and obviously well thought out and would take something like the Lovin' Amp that's very successful now and expand upon it and make it, the space is what I'm referring to, vibrant for years to come, I think is just wonderful. And the mayor appropriately pointed out to me last week that this isn't the first time that the city of Springfield has partnered with the state of Illinois. and with a donation of property. And a great example, I think the premier example, is the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum. Those of you who have been around Springfield for a while know that was the site of our police and fire department at one time. And as part of, I believe it was in the Sarah administration, land was donated, and just look how successful things can be when units of government partner together and work and think something through and try to make a community better. So really, I don't have a question, but I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you. This could be powerful. We hear a lot, and I'll say it now, we hear a lot, why can't we do what Sherman did in their part, their South End argument. their south end of town, I'll say north side. It's very successful and this will compete with that in a good way. And I know Sherman people will come here and other people from all over the place as we visit there at times. But thank you again and thank you for the opportunity to say a few words and I can't wait to see it come to fruition.

Thank you for those comments.

Alderman Rockford.

Yeah, thank you. So per conversation with the mayor and then looking at these drawings. So we're going to flip the stage back over on Capitol Avenue. And so the slope of the hill, are we going to dig that out? Are we going to lower that? I see we have seating. So can you kind of go through that and kind of explain how that's going to?

know because the low side of that park is down towards the governor's mansion correct yeah and as we were kind of moving through the conceptual designs and there's multiple renderings associated with this final design that was approved and originally we kind of have the same layout as 11 a.m originally right with the stage being on east jackson street corridor And that was kind of what we used as we built, and we began to take feedback associated with, you know, whether it be 11 amp music series in Springfield, governor's office, state legislators. And as the more we began to think through exactly kind of both the sidelines, and I want to yield to Eric Huck, our landscape architect, who put together the renditions here, but Again, we've seen an opportunity to utilize the East Jackson Street corridor, right? Because now when you go up to an 11 amp series, a music series, you'll see your food trucks are lined on 5th and 4th streets. And we just want to make sure that it's more family friendly. Those food trucks and the concessions will be on that East Jackson Street corridor. Again, just to simplify and make that site more efficient. But I yield to Eric Hugg if you have any more comments.

Allerman, or sorry, Warren for, Larry Rockford, thank you for this question, appreciate it. You identified a major challenge for the site, which is it's not flat. It looks like it is flat, you know, maybe to a user during an event, but there's actually about a six foot grade change, and I am six foot tall. So if you're standing at the kind of where it says nature play on the exhibit, that is the low point, and the high point is, of course, right up on Capitol and Fifth Street. That's the highest point, and there's about a five foot grade change. The intent would be that we would have to accommodate a design like this by some retaining walls. The intent would be then also to use a native stone to create that grade change that could be a fun feature for kids and also be a seating area when there's not a levity or similar sized event skewed closer to Capitol Street. But then maybe highlight some of that area with some blanking zones. But we would accommodate about a four foot grade change over the course of 80 feet with some stepped low walls that could become a feature to interact with.

You know, because I'm just looking at the lawn seating. You know, if you don't drop it, your stages on Capitol Avenue... And the lawn seeding, I mean, we have to look over people to, you know what I'm saying? It's just, you know, with the infrastructure, I don't know what's underneath, the infrastructure underneath, you know, that sort of stuff. If you scrape it and build it up behind it, that's my question. I just, with the natural slope of the...

So the yellow and kind of rocky looking area, that is intended to be about a three to four foot grade change. And then it would kind of slope down into a more flattened performance space or viewing area. And the stage could be left a little higher so that it, of course, could be viewed from a distance.

Very good.

Thank you.

Thank you. OK. Alderman Williams.

Yes. Thank you, Chair. So you're representing IDNR. Yes, sir. So I guess it's kind of hard with this because we're going to have a discussion when it's time to actually do the ordinance and then when I'll do you. But just for IDNR's purposes, are you guys going to have a forum or something? How does the public use this as far as your agency? Is your agency going to run? Who's using it? if people can fill out a form and

utilize it or is it ran like a state park or what? That is a great question. There's internal discussions happening now associated with the designation associated with this park moving forward. And what I mean by that is, you know, the state park designation, right? We don't see, once construction is complete at the park, we don't see there being any impact with events moving forward. The same ones that would be housed currently on site, We will continue in that direction. With that being said, if it is a state park designation, there are permits required. And it's pretty simple. It's what's called an activity permit, $25 fee. It has to be filed just so we know who comes on site with groups of 20 or more.

Well, you know, I'm a previous employee with IDNR. Several of us are. But I'll just say this. In dealing with the parks, there are fees involved and forms involved and requests that have to be approved. Currently, as we have this, it really isn't. It's just kind of an open space. So I was trying to see how much control and regulated part of how this would work with people, our citizens, being down there. Would there be times when it's closed and when it's open, or would it always be open?

We will continue to work through the details as we move forward, but yeah, it's going to be a public space, right? If there's anybody who just wants to go and read a book and relax for the day, they're more than welcome to do so. When it becomes an issue, or not even an issue, but a challenge associated with your question, it would be groups of 20 or more would be required then to submit an activity permit associated with on-site. Now, we are working through the... I guess the bureaucracy associated with what that looks like. And if we can make this even more efficient associated with having those groups on site, we plan to do so. And again, we want this to become just the heart of downtown Springfield as we build out, whether it be the green space corridor. We have Dana Thomas House, Old State Capitol. We just want to continue to beautify downtown Springfield is all we're trying to do. And if we can make things more efficient, we're going to do that as well.

I understand that, but my question is going to get to the actual ordinance when we talk about how you get to do this, if it has to be free. And I'm going to hold those questions until we're at debate on the actual ordinance itself to do this project. So talk to me about timeline, then. What is your timeline for this project?

get completed? Good question. So right now, once the land donation, assuming it is approved by city council, we estimate about a month for closing on site for IDNR to take ownership of the property. From there, in parallel, we are also involved with the site remediation program moving through the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency. We anticipate it coming to close by the end of August. at that time we do have the conceptual designs and the justification for so completed so once we get ownership of the property the scope of work for the remediation if it's recommended from epa we'll submit both documents into the capital development board who will accompany this project moving forward okay but no set timeline right now the hope would be that we um We get to a bulletin submittal within September, and that's assuming everything moves appropriately. We get the scope of work back from EPA, we have approval from the department, and we close by the end of August.

So my concern for the timeline is, I believe it's IDNR that also got, like you said, the OYMCA, the men's that got tore down, that property, that was IDNR too, right? Or am I correct? Correct. And that property, again, I had a problem with that timeline. Because to drive by it all these years later, and you still see a lot, oh, now I guess something's planted. It looks like something might be trying to materialize. But the fact that our new YMCA, how long has it been open? have concerns, and I'm going to be asking about guarantees and timelines so that we don't do that again. Because I don't see a Japanese garden there. That was the deal when I just did a bunch of reading on all these type of deals and things that have been alluded to that the state does with different. And some of them don't materialize quickly at all. This one has yet to materialize. So if you don't even have that one completed, How was I in art? And you can't even tell me about what the timeline is going to be for what we're talking tonight. I'm just wondering what are we really doing here and why is it always painted like it's so good for Springfield when we as a council may be asking for guarantees and timelines and other ways to do things. Were you involved with the decision-making, or are you just the agency that they picked to say, hey, you guys are going to do this?

So I have been involved with all conversations leading up to this point.

OK. So you were in the room when somebody decided this is going to be given. to the state?

Yeah, and it happened organically. Originally we sat down at the table just to kind of focus on what we wanted to do there, and organically it got to a point where as we began to build out the conceptual design and we seen opportunity, the land donation discussion was happening with the mayor and we decided to move in that direction. And again, I don't want to create any confusion, and we're going to be, the department's going to be extremely transparent as we move through what's called a request for proposal, as we submit all of the documentation to the Capital Development Board, and they push that RFP forward. We will be completely transparent with all of you through that process, too, and this is a partnership, both between DNR, Governor's Office, and the City of Springfield. We see this opportunity, and we just simply want to be transparent and work as fast and hard as we can to get that part filled out.

What part of the project would be a no for you, would make you say, we're going to stop, we ain't going no further?

If enriched uranium was found, I guess, underneath, and that's sarcasm and a joke, but at this point right now, there has been nothing that points me in the direction associated with stopping this project. So when you get it, it's yours. There's no turning back.

as of right now, correct? Because I thought I heard in my neighborhood that if the Environmental Study 2 came back and it wasn't what you guys like, that you all just say it's the cities.

There is a paragraph within the land donation agreement that states, again, from more of a legal perspective, in a situation where what has been identified on site is not within that phase two of the site remediation program filing, we can make that decision. We do not intend to do that.

Okay, well, I'm going to leave the agency alone. I'll reserve the rest of my questions for when we deal with it. Thank you, Chair. Thank you.

You're welcome. Alderman Conley. Thank you, Chair. As a current employee of DNR, I'm not going to be speaking to the proposal at all. But I was wondering if it's possible, you scanned through a bunch of other images to get to this one. And I know one of those, a lot of people have seen this conceptual picture. If we could see some of the pictures that were included of sort of what the playground would look like. I think it was like one image before this one.

Yes, I do not have control.

If we could just maybe, I know these are images that not everyone in the community has had a chance to see yet. So it would be nice to have just kind of an explanation of what we're looking at here. I'll have Eric. Thank you. Eric was the one who said that. Okay. Thank you.

Appreciate it. So just these images were created earlier on with some of our initial concepts. And this is what is DNR going to do differently for downtown Springfield than a traditional park? And the answer is we were going to lean into our slogan which is everyone belongs in nature, everyone belongs in culture in terms of the natural heritage and also the cultural heritage. And so one of the things that we looked at originally was bringing in native plants. The DNR is actually required to use only native plants. So even if we start looking at a formal downtown space, we're still going to be using native trees and native low robust plants. So some of these images show what I call a low profile prairie. So something that's lower than four feet that can be easily maintained and does not look weedy, but also brings some of our native prairies plants back into the sites. This also would be trample resistant. We know we're going to get over 2,000 people, hopefully, moving through this space. And so once it's established, Turns out these native landscapes were trampled by buffalo originally, so we're not too worried about the kids getting into them once they're established. Obviously there's gonna be some attrition and some maintenance. But the idea would be to have a low, very clean looking native planting that's not turf. But then the majority of the site will be a turf zone because we're gonna be accommodating large programs such as those provided by Leavenham. We also, when we were looking at performance spaces, the DNR would like to keep our material costs associated with fuel and moving materials to the site also native to Illinois. And so we were leaning into an amphitheater that was native stone. And where we query this will be to a larger design process. But the idea would be that they would have a lot less miles on the materials coming to Illinois. They would already be here from a local quarry. Those amphitheater seat walls will be very low. The site's very flat. And so we're just trying to accommodate a little bit of a seating area that's more formalized. When you have a formal seating space that's like an amphitheater, you can pack more people into it. They can sit closer together, whereas the lawn seating is a little bit more spread out. And then we also talked about doing some water conveyance around the outside edges. Again, one of the challenges downtown Springfield has is associated with water flooding. We know that this park has wet feet at IDU water standing during our worst rain events. So we would accommodate some resiliency in the design and some of the costs associated with our improvements. We'll assume that there will be a little bit of water on it during our worst rain events. of which we're seeing some significant changes in our amount of the frequency of the frame events that we've gotten. And then the last thing that we were leaning into is my favorite, which is the nature play, which we've done in Illinois now. Instead of leaning into a traditional playground, because of course, what are the kids gonna do during an event when this is not 11 amp series? We wanted to also welcome the citizens of Illinois into this space to use it outside of events. But one of the things is, what can kids do during these events? And we thought, well, playground would be appropriate, but DNR can do something a little different. we can start leaning into more of a nature play, which instead of doing plastic and steel, we were looking at wood and stone and natural materials. So the kids can play on something that's safe, meets all standards, is resilient and can last, but also they can put their hands on something that's a native material. Now, the picture on the left here, that is a park up at Lincoln Park that we worked on I worked on it in private practice, so that's a lot of engineering goes into what looks like a native log on the side, but they're actually very, there's a high amount of design and they're very safe structures, and there's what's called fall zone underneath them. So a traditional playground will have an engineered wood fiber, which looks like a wood chip, or a poured in place rubber, which looks like rubber, or, you know, recycled wood. rubber chips from tires, which we don't really like that material. In this case, we were going to lean into our poured in place rubber for ADA compliance and accessibility to the features themselves, but also engineered wood fiber, which is the reason why it's engineered is that it's a rhomboid shape that locks together and allows you to have a bouncy surface that's not dangerous. But anyway, the idea would be let's play in nature and Let's bring kids who are in downtown Springfield who are interacting with mostly impervious services. Let's not lean into steel and plastic. And that was the design intent.

Thank you. I think I'm allowed to say that it looks beautiful.

And the only other thing I would say is that there's some questions about how we're going to shape this space. Obviously, we're looking into a larger performance pavilion and a cool whatever design that stage cover looks like, some covered structure. But we were planting, you know, 50 trees around the outsides of this, which is consistent with the City of Springfield streetscape planning. So we were hoping to bring some shade onto this site as well. But when you accommodate 11 amp, you know, up to 2,000 people, there's not a lot of room for, you need to maintain your viewsheds of the stage, and so the trees end up skewed around the outside edges. But I love the idea of bringing in some shade where we're doing food trucks so that when you're standing in line for that lemonade or, you know, that cool drink, you don't have to suffer in the heat of, you know, a 90 degree weather today. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. Alderman Gregory.

Thank you. And this is a Ward 2 project, so you'll have to get used to a long discussion about it. I will say, since I've been in office, there's been much discussion around the why block and what do we want to do with it. This is about the fifth design that has come about, and there's been a lot of people along the way to get here. And much of taking long is us as a council. making a decision that we want to move forward on the Y block and what we want to do. It has always been my understanding that the governor and his office and the staff have wanted to help us out. with that space. And this design is not too much different from the last design. But from everyone, from the governors, assistant governor, deputy governor Maynard, former mayor Sheila Walken, Kayla Grave in the Springfield Arts Council, Miss Christy Walden, you know, she really, really, you know, and I'm saying this because I remember Levin when it was just a little bitty stage. And in fact, we didn't have a stage. And it was very little people. And now the community has shown us what that space should be. A place to gather, all walks of life, and having a good time. And we've always known we needed an amphitheater of some sort in our city. So I don't want to leave anybody out because there's been a lot of work. And Ms. Sabo, she's in the back there. And Jay, I know you guys are technically doing a lot with Leavitt Amp. And I appreciate you. The young lady who came from Leavitt Amp. met with us and when she came, she showed us all types of different structures that Levitt had helped from Texas on up north. One promise that we gave her is that we were going to help and push to develop that block so we can continue Levitt. So I'm happy to be at this point of getting something done. All the people who designed it, from Jermaine Ward to Massey and Massey, Mr. John Schaefer, I'll talk to all of them who continue to have their thoughts on it and really compliment this as well. I'm definitely going to support this. And unlike last time when we had the opportunity to do this, and bygones are bygones, but we need all 10. We need all 10 of us. sponsoring this, so we can send a message to the state that we are okay, and we want to develop this. And I can tell you guys, I've been at a couple of these meetings. I haven't been at them all, but I've been at a couple of them. And the questions that I see, if anybody knows me, they know they've been asked. Whether we gonna get compensation for those questions that have been asked, those conversations that have been had, and we'll leave them there. But ultimately, ultimately, It's always our, my goal is to do what the people want. And the people have shown us that they want that to develop, they want to truly, truly have a space to really grow that and then grow that. Now I will say there's one event that I don't know if it's gonna accommodate real well, but it's the, Chris Nichols runs it on purchase. It's the big guys that throw in this big old thing. Highland Games. Are we still going to be able to accommodate that? Because I know between that and Levitt, those were two of the main events. And I would like to see those things continue. We talked about Levitt, but it looks like there's going to be some space up top for them to continue those games. I appreciate y'all. I won't be too long. I can't be, but I want to. Thank you.

All right, and Alderman Grady, I do not know if I'm going to be able to co-sponsor this. I didn't realize until just now that my agency and my day job is going to be involved in this, and so I have to make sure it's not a conflict in any way. All right, well, is there anything else?

Thank you.

I would like to close by thanking the governor's office. Jack is here from the governor's office. Jack is the director of public engagement for the governor's office. So any questions for the governor's office would go to Jack. But I will tell you... Okay. I will tell you that Alderman Gregory, thank you for coming to the governor's mansion with me for multiple meetings, especially when Lovett Ant came in and Jay had people from California, from Lubbock, come in and meet with us and talk about what they saw and needed at the site. It's important that our downtown has a natural park, in my personal opinion, where children and citizens can come and hang out, have a picnic. When we do the link on Third Street, this is going to be a huge compliment to that. It's going to be gorgeous for downtown. Jay and I were anticipating all kinds of cool things. I said, I want to see the Southeast Spartan Drumline perform there. I think it would be a really cool space for that. so many great things that can happen so thank you to the governor's office please make sure the governor hears that thank you to russ for idnr i've been in so many meetings with russ we're friends now but for everybody that's helped with this and for those of you that came in and met with us and sponsored it uh as alderman gregory said i thank you for co-sponsoring it because this is a big win for downtown alderman williams has a question for the governor's office i guess jack are you okay with the question limited scope okay

Actually, I'll get some clarification from the chair before we speak. So are these folks going to be around when we do the ordinance? Or is the ordinance coming right after this presentation? Or are we waiting through and then? Because some of them may need to answer some of what I have to suggest.

Yeah, we can always move it to the front of the agenda, if that's agreeable to everyone.

Perfect. Second.

Okay, all in favor of moving ordinance, what number is it? 333. 2026, 333 to the front of the agenda.

So moved. Second.

Okay, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it. I would be for all of this. Alderman Conley. And perhaps myself will be present for this vote.

Now we need a motion for consent or debate.

Motion to put it on debate. Second.

Okay. All those in favor, we should discuss this.

You've got to read it, though. Sure.

You have to read it. 2026-333 is an ordinance authorizing the execution of the agreement between the state of Illinois, the Department of Natural Resources, and the city of Springfield for the donation of the block bound by 4th Street, Capitol Avenue, 5th Street, Jackson Street for the Office of Public Works.

All right.

So we're... Any discussion? Alderman Williams.

Oh, no, I'm waiting for... I wanted it on debate, but now we're doing discussion, correct? Yes. So the reason why I got this on debate was the presentation was nice, but there's questions, and then it gives us a chance to get a little more maybe guarantee or understanding. But this thing has created a dilemma for me because I'm a true believer. If all the men or all the women want this and it's in their ward, I usually support them. That's why you see me listed as a sponsor, because through much heated discussion, I have to yield to him. It's his ward, after all. My ward constantly tells me, hey, stay out of that. That's not us. And I do. I usually go with whatever the ultimate is. However, that doesn't mean I shouldn't say things and try to ask questions to do what's best for Springfield, even though this ultimate wants it. And in saying that, he says he wasn't in all the meetings and all the rooms and things, but I looked at the history. And this city has spent over $11 million, closer to $12, on this wide block or back one of those called the North Mansion block. And it's had a few names over the years. But in spending that money, I'm trying to figure out how we decide to, somebody somewhere just said, well, we're going to give it away for free. I want my colleagues to consider that, to think about that. We're going to give a block, an important city block at that, away for free. A block that were at one time a law school or at one time a green space with water or with ice skating. They had all kinds of things going on. And I see the idea. I see the plazas being built. I see, so I like it. I like this presentation. I just don't like it being for free. Not when we spent so much. I don't know who was in the room negotiating for us. I want to know if the governor's office just plain out says we're not going to pay for it. We paid you first. When you look at the North Mansion block and how we got it and what went on, we paid $1.2 million back then I believe it was, let's see, it's 2.35 acres, and we paid $1.5 million in 2014. We paid that much, and since then, $10 million more. So that's where I'm getting to the $12 million. And now we're just going to give it to free, but we started off paying them for it. We need to do our job sometimes. So then I ask myself, okay, Sean's arguing. He wants it because something's finally going to get done. Donald is saying, yeah, here's another person that can do it because this council, I would say, refuses because we could do some of this. But we're broke. The mayor told me we're broke. So we're going to give it to them, and then they're going to do it. So I need to know the guarantees. I need to know, well, what's the timeline, and how long, and what's the rules to this? That's why I'm putting it on debate. How are my people going to use it? Right now, they just go down there and do whatever. But when it becomes a state park, maybe it won't be under that. That's what the guy is saying. Not necessarily like a state state park, but I know what them folks go through, and what they go through, and the costs. It's not free using state parks. It's not free. There's fees all over the place about state property and state property. We have state property here. But my whole purpose, this has to be thought out. It's like the other one, what we were trying to do. We don't think things through. We just say, oh, here's a pretty picture. Oh, it's going to be great. Let's do it. And then don't put the onus, oh, if I find something bad with EPA or along with the study, and then they give it back? No. As is. Like you buy a car or something. As is. If you're going to get it for free, it's yours. So when EPA comes back and says, this is under, this has got to be, that's on them. Or even, why are we giving it for free? My mind races all the time about this. Why does other municipalities, or in this case, our state, have to do stuff for us? We can't do anything on it. You know the big project I fought about. Our wisdom is all tied up again, fooling with local people wanting free stuff. And now, I just told you about the Japanese Guard. That ain't here yet. And now here we are with the Y Block, something that we've invested all this money and time in ourselves, and we're going to give it away for free? We didn't even have the common sense, whoever was in the meeting, to say, okay, governor, how about this? If you wanted governor, why don't you bring back some state agencies? That's helping downtown. Have the governor say, OK, in exchange for the Y block, I'm going to put two state agencies back downtown. That gives you people, shoppers, activity again. It ain't always got to be so rock-sided like it is. So that's all I'm saying, because if it's just about a park and something pretty with our, well, our state flowers are ugly. There's a couple of them there. Most of them look like weeds. There's a little park right across from the Abraham Lincoln Library. Nice. Looks pretty. Nobody's hardly in it. Every time I drive by, it's empty. So we would have the Leavitt. Well, what's the agreement there? Is it just with Leavitt, or is it with the city? Before we give it up, we need to think through these things, even if we didn't want to do that. And the governor says, no, I can't get you no state agencies. But he spent $80 million putting it out there on the mall. Do you imagine what it would have been if he would have gave that complex to downtown Springfield? How many workers? How big that place is? An $80 million investment in Springfield. Now I'm bringing Springfield back, but we don't open our mouths. We give stuff away for free and cut bargains. I don't know what we're doing up here. But it's your war, and I can't say but understand it. I want to know everything. I want to know if I'm buying a hot dog or a drink or whatever, how's that taxing? Is it like it is with the state fair, or is it just like our regular city tax? What's going on? Those kind of questions we need to think through. We could have possibly did what we do with our life. We could have said, we're not giving it to you. We're going to let you have it for a dollar and have a lease. But we still keep ownership. But then you do this beautiful project you want to do. But just giving something away after we've spent so much money, I think is wrong. I had to get it out. I had to tell my colleague I am going to support him because I'm always demanding that all of us should respect that. It's the one last power that all the men and all the women have is when you're dealing with your zoning and you're dealing with what's going on in your ward and your colleagues respect you. And so he is adamant about, I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it. Everybody keeps trying. Something's finally going to happen. So I give in. But not without you guys hearing some of the other ways this could be done. Still we go done and still get it done. But we have new agencies downtown. Or still get it done, but we're still the owners. But they just lease. That's all I have to say. I know you guys are probably going to pass it. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. Thank you for your time. Madam Chairman, who is the second on his motion? Me. Thank you.

Okay. Yep. Got it. Alderman Gregory.

Thank you. And, Alderman, I'll tell you, we've had some good discussions. I appreciate your questions, and I don't think there are ever bad questions when you want to know something. And the cost of this is, you know, man. We can sit here and argue about money and stuff, but in the end, we gotta keep legal people. And in my war, I want this thing developed. I'm tired of dealing with it. Now, we lose nothing. We lose nothing. The money that y'all talk about putting in, we had to fix it. It don't matter if it was going to be the Y block or a building on it. We had to fix those stewards. I did it. We spent it. The money gone. We not going to do nothing with it. The state don't lose nothing by not doing it, bro. We do. We do. The state don't lose nothing by saying, you know what, I'm going to keep my $4 million. Y'all do whatever the hell y'all want to do. They don't lose nothing. But our people do. So I don't have a thousand thoughts, but I want to do what the people want and enjoy that white block. That's it. That's what I'm tired of these designs. I'm tired of these discussions. And from what I know, from back in 2019, there's always been some discussion on what we're going to do with this freaking block. And every time we get to it, It's always a bunch of stuff. And I don't want that. I want us to go ahead and do it. If they don't develop it, then all that. But I'll tell you one thing about me. We want to develop and we run into some stands. You call the mayor, you call me. Just like we did with this firehouse and had to put down some more barriers to make it be there. I want to do what's necessary to develop the block and other things throughout the war. We're not doing nothing. We don't have the money to develop it, bro. People use it, though. They use it, and we want to make it. They always use it. I'll say this, and I work at a state agency, too. And, you know, we have security and everything else, but guess what? People come, go homeless in and out of beautiful buildings filled with marble every single day. Every single day. And don't nobody bother them. It's all good. You know, we open and we close. There's a structure. And I would envision that's how this is going to work because it's a state property. I don't really have no fear on that portion of it, my brother. But I understand your questioning. I get it. Some of that other stuff don't really have nothing to do with the Y block itself. But I understand your point in that. But as we talk, it's in my world. I want you to support it. Let's roll.

Sure.

Just a point of order. Alderman Williams, I don't know where your numbers are coming from, but I had Public Works pull for me what happened with previous administrations. The city has spent $4.6 million on it, so IDNR will end up spending more than us when it comes to improving it and taking care of it. So that started with 2014 with the purchase of $1.5 million with Mary Houston. So I have those numbers, and I can share them with you all.

Alderman Purchase, do you mind? Go ahead. Alderman Williams.

The budget woman. Yeah, Ramona, I'm sorry. Well, no, I ain't going to involve you here. This is the transition report, something that we didn't do. The transition report, that covers the Wyndham. We never did a transition team. And this is where we start making these mistakes. I got it. It's got the numbers, the year, the mayors who were in, and all that stuff. So I know she may know her numbers. But I'm telling you, right here, clear as day, it talks about approximately $10 million in the area to get it development ready. It talks about the $1.2 million that the city paid the state when it was north mansion block, or whatever the word they was using back then. And the building, the YW, was still standing and all that. So a lot of time has passed. But we can't forget about the history of what we spent and what we didn't spend. And it don't matter, Mayor, even that much. Give us that much back then. If it ain't my $11 million that I came up with, whatever we put into it, give it back. Or do the lease. Or bring some agencies. That's helping downtown. Guarantee that the people will never pay. The alderman can't guarantee that right now. He says, I ain't going to. I've been to many state parks. There's fees. So I need to understand from my general, how is this going to be set up? Who's going to regulate it? Is it going to be security there at certain other state parks? Some have it, some don't. Is the park police going to do it, the IDNR park police? Or is it going to be our police or state police or all kinds of stuff? So that's why I put it on debate. But I don't like it when we just see a pretty picture and just go for it because somebody's doing something for downtown. When are we going to do something for ourselves? This is a chance. This is a chance to say, I'm going to get a few agencies back down here. And like a little barter thing we got going. Or I'm going to still own it and it's going to be beautiful, but I'm leasing it to them. I never give up. There's a lot of other ways to do this than just outright free. That's all I'm saying. I'm not arguing with you. I told you I'm going to go with it because you want to go with it and it's your war.

Okay, Alderman Curtis.

Thank you, Chairwoman. I want to start by saying first, because it was confusion when the BOS Center came that I didn't support it, and I fully did. I support Alderman Gregory, but I don't think, Director, I heard you say there's other events that have happened on the Y block that are associated with downtown, and I'm sorry, I didn't get to meet you in any of these meetings because I wasn't invited to them and me and Alderman Gregory share downtown. so some of my businesses who do have uh events on the white block will that still be able to continue to happen and i know that you said that you're working on your procedures and your policy right now but how will that work i didn't get to hear you when he brought that up and alderman gregory brought up a specific one yes and apologies moving forward we

As we develop and build out this park, we shouldn't see any impacts associated with the events being scheduled, whether it be... That's been previous or even new. That's correct. Okay.

Now, I don't know all events that have been scheduled on site, therefore... We've had, like, Pride Fest that had been on the Y Block before, so would that still be available and an opportunity for them to be able to bring it back to that space?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And then, like Alderman Gregory said, Chris Nichols, he has a big tournament that comes there as well. Will it be a fee associated with it? And I know that you said you're still in the process of getting your procedures together.

Correct. And just for clarity, IDNR state parks are free to use. I would tell everybody to go out, hike. These are your parks for free. Use them. In regards to... The question associated with the fee on-site, any event scheduled at a state park currently that has 20 or more people for that event would be required to pay a $25 activity permit. Simply just stating what the event purpose is, giving us some descriptions associated with what that looks like, the time, the date associated with it, and that filing fee of $25.

Thank you. So that leads me to my final question. I'm really about education with the community and educating them on how these processes work. Will we be able to do some type of community engagement to talk about how this rollout will happen and be able to invite the community out along with you and DSI?

Absolutely.

Okay, do you know when that will kind of take shape? I know we got a vote on it, but do you know when that would take shape before you guys even break ground?

So that can be whenever we decide the best timing for it. Again, as we move through the donation of this property, we close the property and we move this project through the capital development board construction build out. There's going to be ample time as we move through the procurement process to sit down I would champion and honor any opportunities we have to educate the public associated with, whether it be even planning moving forward or just simply best use of time. I'd be more than happy to join those conversations as well.

Thank you. I would just like to be included in those so we can also help to bring people out too. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chairman.

Alderman Rockford.

Thank you, Chair. My comment, you know, I second with Roy. You know, years ago there was some private developers that came down and wanted to give upwards of $10 million to develop that Y Block, and it was turned down. So I'm always, as I told you, Mayor, I am for this Y Block project, and Sean, I will support you, but I just don't understand buying this and then letting it sit for all these years, and then turning down private funds. and then giving it away. I hope everything comes through. I hope it turns out to be a great, great thing for downtown because I was the guy that talked about the Lincoln Fest and all the blues and barbecue festivals that don't happen now. Maybe we can rejuvenate downtown with this project. So I will be supporting you. So that's all I wanted to say. Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, and some of those events don't happen because of fees associated with posting them on our downtown streets. Thank you. And if no one has anything else, we can vote. All those in favor of putting this on debate? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

Thank you.

All right. So next we have back to our regularly scheduled programming. ordinances tabled or remaining in committee is there anyone who would like to remove any of these ordinances for committee consideration okay well we can move on to ordinances for CWLP mr. clerk could you please read the ordinance

CWLP 2026.316 is an ordinance approving payment to WESCO and authorizes supplemental appropriation to MISO J1610 deposits in the amount not to exceed $56,913.40 for the Office of Utilities. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? You guys have it.

2026.317 is in order to accept a master service agreement with MISO for the Office of Public Utilities. Move to consult. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Do you guys have it?

2026.318 is in order to accept a business authorizing contract UW-27-04-23. emergency lead water service line replacement project FY2728 with E.L. Pruitt and Company in the amount not to exceed $909,910 for the Office of Public Utilities. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026.319 is an ordinance authorizing supplemental appropriation and acceptance and execution of a grant BA-26-325 for the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, IDNR, for the improvements to the Center Park area and the Beach House area for the Office of Public Utilities.

Second. I'll second.

Any discussion?

All those in favor? Aye.

In the post, the ayes have it. If I could be noted as present for that vote.

I'm sorry?

Present for that vote. Okay. Thank you.

2026-320 is in order to approve the intergovernmental joint funding agreement with the United States Department of Interior U.S. Geological Survey in the amount of $352,850, but the continuous monitoring of the nutrients and suspend sediment in Lick Creek and Sugar Creek tributaries for Lake Springfield in the time period of October 1, 2025 through September 30, 2027 to the Office of Public Utilities. I move for consent.

Second. Alderman Cox.

Thank you. Is Todd here? Real quick, if you don't mind. I saw you, or actually I guess I saw Dan at that wetlands project down in Luwami. And I know we have some wetlands that we're putting in to help filter some of this stuff, keep it from going into the actual lake. Is this kind of part of that? Are they connected at all? I guess is what I'm asking you.

So they're not connected with that particular project on the Staley property, but what these are are monitoring stations that kind of assess our performance and all the work we're doing out in the watershed with our RCPP and 319 grants, and that particular project was part of the RCPP grant. Great. That's all I had. Thank you very much.

One second.

alderman rockford thank you very much so todd let me ask you a question are there regulations on we were talking about dredging the lake okay this is a little off this this i think but it's still on the same lines so when it comes in our lake is there regulations on this farmland for the sediment for your fencing your erosion fencing i mean are the regulations for farmers and the farmland that surround lake springfield from this sediment getting in

no there are no current regulations so the sheet flow across is unregulated so that's what makes these programs so difficult to implement we have to get volunteers and get conservation farming i guess out into the uh the watershed through a volunteer basis yes okay perfect thank you thank you chair all right you're welcome and uh the motion is for the consent agenda all those in favor any opposed the eyes have it

Public Works 2026.321 is an ordinance authorizing the acceptance of a right-of-way for Bissell Road located to the south side of Bissell Road and east side of North Dirksen Parkway for the Office of Public Works.

Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye.

Any opposed?

The ayes have it.

2026.322 is an ordinance accepting the lowest responsible bid and authorizing the execution of a contract number with complete asphalt service company for the FY2027 crack filling contract for the amount not to exceed $294,000 for the Office of Public Works. Move to consent. Second. Any discussion then?

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? You guys have it. We moved 323 to the front, so it's 2026, 323.

No, we moved 333. 2026 323 is an ordinance authorizing acceptance as a one-year contract of rfp pw 2706 with ph broughton and sons inc and rayhan brothers dba signal construction inc for the street and alley repairs for the amount not to exceed two million two hundred thousand dollars to the office of public works move for consent any discussion alderman burtory real quick i i'm not going to put this on debate or anything but um director

I know I'm not going to actually come up brand new, but I want to get with you and go over just some of the alleys that we missed over the years. And not only that, I really want to take a look at alleys and put some priority on alleys. That people, that's their only access point. A lot of apartments and things in my downtown portion, their only access point is the alleys, and it's my belief that they need to be almost as well as the roads, because that's their only access point. So we got, you know, garbage trucks and stuff, and it tears it up a little bit. The guys have been patching them, and we're thankful for that, but some of those are in need of a lot of work. So I appreciate you, sir, and I'll follow up with you.

Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

Yeah, I said it. 2026.324 is an ordinance accepting lowest responsible bid and authorizing the execution of contract PW2705-26 with P.H. Broughton and Sonsy FY2027 Seal Coat Program in the amount not to exceed $461,250 for the Office of Public Works. We'll consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026.325 is an ordinance regarding the variance request of Section 153-157L pertaining to access to an arterial street in Centennial Park Place for the Office of Public Works. Move to consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

The ayes have it. 2026.326 is an ordinance approving the revised preliminary plan for Centennial Park Place for the Office of Public Works. Move to consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

The ayes have it. 2026-327 is an ordinance approving the variance request of section 153.158b2 pertaining to creation of a flag lot and shared access to Ridge Subdivision for the Office of Public Works. Move to consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026-328 is an ordinance approving the location of a sketch map for New Ridge Subdivision for the Office of Public Works. Move to consent. Second.

Discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026-329 is an ordinance regarding the Fair Request of section one five three point one five seven L pertaining to access to an arterial Street and Gateway subdivision the office of public works Second any discussion all those in favor.

All right Can you pose the eyes have it?

20 26 3 30 is an orders regarding the parents requests of section one point five three one five seven in pertaining to private streets for Office of Public Works. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026.331. An ordinance approving the variance request of section 153-158B2 pertaining to creation of a flag lot and shared access in the gateway subdivision for the Office of Public Works. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026-332 is an ordinance approving the location of a sketch map for Gateway subdivision for the Office of Public Works. Move for consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? You guys have it.

333 was voted on.

Yep.

General City Business 2026-334, an ordinance to increase the number of Class A liquor licenses by one. For the bus stop LLC DBA, the bus stop located at 430 East Monroe Street. Move consent.

Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye.

The ayes have it. 2026-335 is an ordinance to increase the number of Class AA liquor licenses by one for 2736th Street Liquor. LLC Spring Liquor and Wine located at 2730 South 6th Street, Suites B and C. Move to consent. Second.

Discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

The ayes have it. 2026336 is an ordinance to decrease the number of Class D liquor licenses by one due to the closure of the business by Roots Latin Grill LLC, DBA Roots Latin Grill located at 4127 Wabash Avenue. Move to consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

You guys have it. 2026-337 is an order to decrease the number of Class D liquor licenses by one due to the closure of business by barbecue integrated 8 DBA Smokey Bones Bar and Fire Grill number 7513 located at 2660 South Dirksen Parkway.

Move consent. Second.

Any discussion? All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026-338 is in order to approve the appointment of Robert Mueller to the Springfield Urban and Forest Commission.

Move to debate.

Second. Any discussion? Alderwoman Conley? Thank you, Chair.

I understand Mr. Mueller is in the audience today. If you want to come up and discuss.

Good evening. Mayor, Alderman, and city council members. I'm Robert Mueller. I want to thank everybody for consideration of nomination to this council. Through work with the Springfield Bonsai Society, I had a whole lot of opportunity to introduce trees to a whole lot of individuals here in our city of all ages and experience levels hoping to use that same lesson of stewardship thinking in terms of decades instead of days in terms of trees with Springfield's urban forest canopy mostly looking to learn on this commission observed from a lot of the experienced individuals that are on it and contribute by making some thoughtful contributions. Thank you. Thank you.

And I just want to be real clear, your appointment goes on debate because we put all appointments on debate. It's not a statement or anything else. But thank you for your offer to serve. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right. All those in favor of putting this on debate? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026-339 is in order to approve the payment to Val Friday, a City of Springfield firefighter. for settlement of workers' compensation claim 24-WC-032595 in the amount not to exceed $44,974.56. I'm going to hold this.

We'd like a motion to hold. Okay. So moved. Second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? You guys have it.

Can I ask a question? Ms. Chair, I'm sorry I'm late.

Sure. Alderman Gregory.

Any, can we touch on why we're holding this portion of the CDG funding? No, I'm sorry. No, no, no.

Okay. Okay, so did we vote? We voted, yes. All right, moving right along.

You ready?

Mm-hmm.

2026.340 is an ordinance authorizing acceptance and execution of a grant 26-MC-17-0023 FY26 Community Development Block Grant and Home Investment Partnership Program Grant number M26-MC-17-0209 for the total amount not to exceed $1,779,363.29 for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development covering the FY26 program year activities for the Office of Planning and

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026341 is an ordinance authorizing the execution of the grant number 26SL578208 for the FY27 security grant with the State of Illinois State Library in the amount of $100,000 for the Lincoln Library. Motion for consent.

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it.

2026 342 is an ordinance authorizing a one-year extension contract as CS 24-04-01 through June 30th, 2027 with Republic Services, Springfield DVA Republic Services of St. Louis County to provide waste hauling using single stream recycling in the amount not to exceed $300,000 for the Office of Budget Management.

Can we put this on debate before we find out? And I know it's a recycling section of it, but I do think there needs to be a little bit of discussion with Republic and their services throughout our city. We have been getting increasingly complaints, I know I have, about when they pick up, when they don't pick up, missed pickups and things. And I just don't get those with regard to the other companies. And I just think we just need to make sure that they're still on track. Thank you.

Okay. Any other discussions? Everyone in favor of putting this on debate?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

Madam Chairman, 343 is not on the agenda. It was posted on our website, but it didn't get on the agenda, so I'm going to read that into it right now.

Sure.

It's an ordinance accepting contract with Koenig for repairs of a freight elevator at the Municipal Center East in the mountain up to exceed $117,273 for the Office of Budget Management. Consent.

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? You guys have it.

2026344 is in order to accept in quote number 367369 and authorize the purchase of 14 APX 4500 mobile radios and accessories from Motorola Solutions for the amount not to exceed $78,963.22 for the Springfield Police Department. Move for consent. Second. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? You guys have it. All right. Thank you. And next, is there any unfinished business to come before this committee? Alderman Gregory. No, that was from previously. Alderman Purchase.

Thank you, Chairwoman. Corporation Council, I received four phone calls within the last two days about animal control and I think there's a silo within messaging. So one individual had went and got a permit and animal control said they took the raccoon down the street and let it out in the woods. And then another resident said that they was only able to take so many of the groundhogs. Is there any way, I know previously I asked for them to come in here and be able to talk about their process just so that it's transparent for the community. And I've personally had my experiences with going and getting my permit from IDNR and catching a couple groundhogs and being able to take them to animal control. But I was never under the understanding that you only could do so many and then you were done. So I don't know if you can attest to that. I know we're still in the process of working on their contract. Is there any way that they can actually come in here to City Council?

Well, I can reach out to them and ask and see if they will come and explain that procedure.

Thank you, because I think it should just be one message, like one band, one sound going out, versus... us individually having issues in our wards and getting different messages to send out or receiving those calls and saying they said it to one individual and then another, and I didn't know it, they just take them and let them out in the woods and then said they couldn't come back to get any more. So I just think them coming here would be really helpful.

Thank you. Thank you, Chairwoman. Yeah, thank you, Alderman. Alderman Williams.

What's the latest on animal control? The update on the numbers is something we were waiting on last time.

So we received a proposed agreement on Friday with the county, and I'm in the process of reviewing it.

And what are they operating now under? Just the old contract language?

Right. The old fees that were put forward to the council. And I can send those to you, but it was... I don't have them. All right. So the timeline for this new stuff they sent you would be... I got it on Friday, so it'll be... I've got to look at it. It'll be a week or two for me to look at it.

Thank you.

OK, so that's all Alderman Williams? Oh, yes. OK. And I will say to the point, I understand, Corporation Council, your need, of course, for review of the proposal, but I think we should be able to review it as you're reviewing it. I just feel like there are instances where, you know, we're asked for our buy-in from this administration on certain projects like the YBOT project and potentially this contract for animal control. And we're, as older persons, not read in until the absolute last minute on things that have been ongoing and in discussion and highly developed over years. So I just would request that we rethink how we operate, I know myself and other alders I've worked with, when we want co-sponsors and buy-in, we circulate our proposals beforehand, before something appears on the agenda, you know, to get a message out, to build a coalition, to do some PR for a program, so I think it would be a good idea if we could get a look at that animal control contract before it's actually on the agenda. So, thank you. Alderman Gregory.

No, and I know, I agree with you, and I'll say this to Corporation Counsel, you do have at least my support, and I would ask everyone if you, I know you short staff in there and a lot of this stuff, so I guess, I guess I'm saying, man, let us know if we need to do something or approve some contracts to get you some help and stuff because I support that and I think we, you know, I've seen you a lot, man, and you look tired, bro. So I'm just letting you know.

Thank you.

Yes, and thank you, Alderman Gregory, and I just want to reiterate that my comments are not directed towards your office at all. So, yeah. And is there any new business to come before this committee? All right. We do have a need for executive session under...

Under 2C1 personnel.

Okay.

So moved.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? The ayes have it.

Motion to reconvene. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it. Now it's time for citizens' requests to address the committee. Are there any citizens?

Ken Pasha. He's out for a cigarette. Michael Flowers. Supposed to be out for a cigarette. Jay Shannon. Kid patient?

It's not your guys' fault, but I have to say it's really annoying county runs concurrent with this. It's intentional. A DUI, huh? Drove away at the first stop, gave a bad ID, and then some more BS.

Back up off the mark a little, please.

Of course.

Thank you.

It's deeply frustrating that we continue to see this sort of bad behavior from SPD, and it's tolerated. I don't know if you guys have seen the body cam footage. But that's pretty decent treatment for somebody who essentially tried to resist arrest and disappear, and then provided bad identification. If any normal person had done that, they'd have spent their night in jail. They would have been handed back their property and walked off. Another ordinance tonight approved how much more money? Didn't you just say the city was broke? Didn't you just say the city was broke? You guys do realize that you are the boss of the police, right? They're not your boss. You don't have to give them whatever they want whenever they ask. They're not your friends. They're not your buddies. They're not even your colleagues. They don't think of you that way. Because every one of you, if you got a DUIN, in a lot more trouble than a private investigation we may never hear the results of if we're lucky to get her terminated. Which maybe you guys have already terminated her, who knows? That's the problem with their union contract is none of that stuff happens transparently. You guys can't even discuss it in front of us. Public servants who receive a vast majority of our budget, more than most departments by significant margins. And what do we get for that? We get 14 year olds tackled in front of their family by an officer who still laughs when people tell him careful not to hit anybody. He thinks it's funny because the consequences were minor. That's the kind of behavior they get away with because they're above us. If you don't believe that, look at the treatment. What about Egan? You know, I know Chell. I know her well enough to call her Chell. You know, she just got through all of that. Where is he? Walking free. Probably still in a bar, drinking freely. And what does he think will happen next time? Not much. Because you can hit two people on a bike and barely get a slap on the wrist. Why? Because you can get an SPD lieutenant to come be your character witness. When are you guys going to wake up and recognize that they act with impunity? Because the list of bad incidents would take up a lot more than the last two minutes. It is absolutely appalling that week after week you guys hand them tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars. For what results? Citywide surveillance that none of us could even FOIA if we asked? Bad outcomes with citizens and children being assaulted, but when one of their own does it, give us time. Well, she's off duty. You should be fired immediately. A pizza driver would be fired immediately for a DUI. Is that a joke? You're telling me somebody blessed with the power of life and death gets to just what? Get a slap on the wrist if the union wants it? Because she is a former VP of it, of the PVA. Do you guys know that? What kind of treatment do you think they're fighting for? I bet you know and I don't. And that's the frustration. Could you imagine saying that because you were at work you could get away with literally anything, including murder? This is an absolute travesty that that's what we see occurring. Where's Chief Beal? You guys remember when he brought 50 cops here to verbally assault my friend for an hour? An absolute character assassination PR campaign when he tried to marry Shanklin up here, who the mayor's giving money to for her campaign to run against Sean? Where was that? Where's he at? Where's the statement? Where's the public statement about the officer that just embarrassed his entire department? There is absolutely no accountability coming from them in the way that they expect it from us. From people who manage to get it together on their own and don't have an entire department that'll do it for them and pave over it and slap them on the wrist. It is absolutely disgusting that the collective power here is often nothing more than a rubber stamp

michael flower jay chanel robert williams

Last time I was here, I was under a lot of depression because of my brother's death, and I wasn't waiting around for a response. And then this officer told me, you know, I don't remember, but he told me, you know, some disrespectful thing coming at me again. He told me it's Crouch. He's my A.S.S., And he's still working. And what I want to lead off of from there is that I had went over to the police station to file charges. And the lady that was taking the statement, her and another detective lady officer, after I explained the situation, agreed that they heard the same officer be disrespectful to people. And just last week, a friend of mine, Sequita, she was arguing with somebody in the park, which has nothing to do with the library, and she went in the library, and he kicked her out of there because of what happened in the park. But it wasn't no fight. It wasn't no physical, just verbal conversation. But he felt he got the authority, the power, to make these decisions. I thought the decision came from Nick. And Nick been boarding me for the longest. Every time I come up here, I'm going to talk to you. OK. All right. That's what I say. Now that I've finished saying what I had to say about Tim, I still want to file charges if it came because this ain't the first time he even did this. He didn't even call me a county market and tell me what you want to do. And I don't want no smoke, so I ride away. But I want to know, last time I was here, I left because like I said, my brother died. I didn't know about it for over a year on our mother's birthday. And if I had a place to stay, I would have had access to my family. And it just didn't go that way. You know, I ain't perfect. I make mistakes and I made some. But I haven't made none since. And I've been talking to y'all about getting a job, working with mental health, working with the people on the street that's mentally disturbed. And I just want a part-time job, not a full-time job. I think I can do a better job because, like I said, unless they come to me, I don't have to come to them. But they don't want to talk to the people with mental health because they don't want to be confined in a small quarter. Even me, I don't like going. I miss a whole month and they re-assigned me to someone else. And I also want to give a shout out to Capital Township for making this happen. They signed a check so I could get the place. But it was Shannon and Mayor and them that went the path for me. So I want to shout out to them. But I still want to know what we're going to do about 10, what we're going to do about my request for a part-time job as a mental health counselor. I can go back to school if I need to, but I don't think I need to because all the things I've been going through in real life, you know, I have learned. So I'm going to leave that. I'm going to let y'all give me some answers from that, you know, if y'all don't mind. What y'all gonna do about Tim? The kid, the real funny part was that I actually went by his group about the sidewalk. Told me I couldn't go on the sidewalk, which is not the sidewalk. Even the bricks I made like the library, they said that's the sidewalk. So they had me walk in the street for two days. Because I was afraid I would be arrested. That's a shame. That's all I got to say.

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

Reese Moyer.

Okay. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm here to address the AI camera decision you made last week. Let me get to the heart of the matter. What is your purpose as a council member? What is your job? I don't need an answer. None of you need an answer. You know what they're supposed to do, even if you don't have the words to say it. In a general sense, a good council member gives their citizens what they want improves the local economy, and makes decisions for the common good. Yet here we stand after you've already given half a million dollars of taxpayer money to something nobody wants and that actively harms privacy and can be potentially used to threaten lives. That's three strikes, you're out. You sat here last week and talked a lot about when the data gets deleted and if they can't sell it, could they still share it? You even said things to the effect of, if we need to change the policy, we can't. but you can't undo harm. It's good you put that last part in, because Flock is infamous for lying to city councils and even police departments. First one, and probably my biggest concern, are you aware that anyone in this room, every person listening to this, can go download a free program that gives them access to live camera feeds? Even if all it saves is a license plate, it's still a camera with an internet connection. As public officials, how would you feel if someone who wanted to hurt you could just find out what times you were out of the house? What about your children? What about your grandchildren? You keep talking about safety, yet it can be used to commit the very crime you say it will stop. And no, I didn't say prevent. Does any of that sound safe to you? It feels like something out of a schlocky sci-fi film. Yet, here we are. I guess it's not fiction anymore. What if someone has a violent ex? What if your vote gave someone the information to kill the woman that broke up with them? Even if it was one, how would you feel? Even if it was one person, would you still want to give them that tool to do harm? If it actually prevented crime, maybe you could still say yes, but this doesn't prevent anything. They only help you catch people who have already committed crimes. Hell, if you really wanted to know what prevents crime, all successful prison policy shows that treatment should be increased while abolishing mandatory minimum sentences. Let me say that again. All successful prison policy shows... Sorry. If you really wanted to successfully prevent crime, you would spend this half a million on treatment and abolish mandatory minimum sentences for offensive crimes. Violent offenses. Instead, we're getting cameras that track everyone to what? Catch a drug dealer? Catch a guy who hasn't shown up to his court date? What can these cameras possibly do that our police already can't? Putting them on the roads. In and out of the city, I understand. But what do these cameras do when you put them in our neighborhoods? What does it actually do that either knocking on a door or parking on a corner can't do? God forbid someone has been murdered. How do you even know they're going to be driving the same car? So again, what does this prevent? What does this help? Mass surveillance is not security. Let me say it again. Mass surveillance is not security. Just ask Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. if mass surveillance is security. What's more, they have a history of lying. The officer who was here enlightened us to the fact that Flock has the best policies and promises compared to other automated AI-powered camera corporations. Yet you can still go online and find dozens of towns where Flock has lied to the council members' faces. They've lied to the police department's faces. Let me ask you this. How do you know Flock will follow their end of the deal if they have a history of lying? How do you know Flock won't sell your data? How do you know Flock isn't tracking you? Oh, you have a piece of paper saying they won't? These other dozens of towns had pieces of paper just like yours. And they still had their data stolen. The officer kept saying they would be notified if there was any potential misuse. If it was another officer, can you guarantee he would report his fellow officer, his friend for misuse? If it was the company, do you really think they would notify you if they were doing something wrong? Now I'm going to tell you how it is. You don't know that they won't break their promises. Even if the corporation has its hand to God, they can still have their other hand behind their back crossing their fingers. Do any of you know someone who can code? Have they personally looked over the code for these flock cameras? then you don't really know, do you? What's more, how do we know that these won't be deployed disproportionately in predominantly black neighborhoods? I'm going to finish out today by reminding you of your job. A vast majority of my citizens don't want this. This doesn't make our economy better or lower our bills. This doesn't even help the common good, as I have clearly established. So I have one final question, possibly the most important one. What do you get out of it? Your children and grandchildren are at the same risk as everyone else, so what do you get out of it? That will be all.

Jay Shandell. He passed. Michael Flowers. That's it, Chairman.

See you.