Housing and Human Welfare Committee - Regular Meeting

Housing and Human Welfare Committee meeting. It is February 12, 06:42PM. First item on the agenda and give me a second because this is not our committee agenda. First item on the agenda is the roll call starting with Alderman Huntley. Present. Alderman Schandelmeier. Present. And Alderman Gay. Next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes. Is there a motion to approve our minutes from the meeting on 01/09/2025?

I will make the motion. I'm sorry? I will make

the motion. Sorry. There a motion to approve the agenda?

So moved. Second.

Thank you. Next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from our 01/09/2025 meeting. Is there a motion to approve those minutes?

So moved. Second.

All in favor?

Aye. Next

item on the agenda is legislation starting with r thirty eight twenty four, a combination in possession of real property at 245 West Street for the purpose of authorizing the combination of possession of real property at 245 West Street in the city of Annapolis. Alderman Huntley, do you wanna speak to this?

Yeah. I'm I was a little bit surprised to see this back on our agenda because we did already recommend it favorably. So but just as a reminder for everybody, this would condemn the abandoned gas station on West Street. In my ward, it's I can't tell you how many folks say to me that this is one of their biggest issues, believe it or not. That they are so fed up with this and feel really strongly that they just want to see it gone.

It's disgusting. And the hope with this is to convey a sense of urgency to the current owners who have apparently no urgency. And yeah, like I said, we've already passed this. We've passed it out of the finance committee. We have brought it to the floor and delayed it, postponed it twice now with the understanding that it will be back at our first meeting in March and there will be no more postponements. So at that point, either there will be a agreement inked and we will remove it from our agenda or we will the city will move forward with this and and condemn and potentially buy this property. So that's what's going on.

Yeah. I think the reason that is back on our agenda is because in our in the council meeting that it was sent back to the committees, we hadn't had a meeting since then.

Oh. Right.

Okay. So this is just us getting it out so that by March that it's all set.

Got it. Right, thank you for that.

Any other questions on this?

We do have an amendment on it now.

Okay I see yes, the savage amendment. Amendment number one. Just give me one second.

Do we not already approve this amendment before?

No. I think this isn't new. Amendment number one is a statement that the city council supports the inclusion of public green space if 233 West is developed when the city takes legal possession of the property. Alderman Savage? Isn't here. I'm I mean, Alderman Schandelmeier. I shaved. He is here. I don't.

So I think he has got a good intention with this, but what it's it's a small lot and including this is probably going to make a project more difficult to pass through, especially if we wanna put capital a HUD defined affordable housing, which means you need to maximize the space even with tax incentives.

I for one, I don't know if we want I thought that the objective was to get into some sort of public private partnership with this.

I think at this point

So I I I'm just saying that to say I don't know what the average median income would be for a requirement to a five month property.

I don't know either, but I

My take on this is that I would be very happy with this property becoming housing. I would be very happy with this property becoming green space. Very unhappy with how it is right now. So my suggestion is that we favorably recommend this amendment. We amend this amendment to instead of saying and public green space, and or public green space and that we approve it with that.

I actually would not be in favor of that amendment because I

No. That's

fine. I acknowledge that green space is important, but I acknowledge more that the need for housing stock is important. I share the concern with Alderman Schandelmeyer and I also will point to and if the city manager would correct me if I'm wrong here, adequate public facilities exist for recreation And if you're developing a property you have to and you forego green space. There has to be a park or green space of some sort within a half a mile that you either invest in or the public has an option to go there as opposed to you developing green space on your property.

Sorry,

Vicki Buckland, assistant city manager. Adequate public facilities does include considerations for recreation. However, I would have to go back. It's been a while since I've looked at that section of the code. I don't remember what the parameters of it are. And of course the city has been looking at revising that section of the code anyway.

Alderman Gay, I'll say I think you and I are thinking along the same lines here.

What

in my possibly outside of my ability to control as an Alderman perfect vision of this area is that that parking lot be developed into affordable housing. I'm sorry, not parking lot, that gas station. And that as part of that redevelopment, they do contribute via our adequate public facilities ordinance towards what would be a green space across the street when that big currently chunk of green space, which is much larger, is able to get redeveloped into their housing and green space. Now that may again be beyond the ability of the council to control, but that is sort of my dream for those two currently thoroughly underutilized properties.

And I would also just add that there is no it may just be in the Main Street corridor because I was extremely interested in green rooftops for residential units. And I know that there was opposition downtown and I'm assuming it was because of the historic Annapolis and or Historic Preservation Commission. But I'm not sure what, For example in Upper West Street, maybe Director Jakubiak if you could at some point let us know if you're able to have green roofs there. That would be something also to consider. And so I mean I say all of that to say I guess we pass this because it will be back in front of the council in March.

And by then we may get the the answers back from the director and from the deputy city manager about the out of public facilities. And then we just add that amendment on in the meeting in March.

So sort of point by point there, this is outside of the historic district, so I think we would have more leeway to do green roofs here. And yeah, I I would be. I do not want the amendment as it currently is. I'd be fine with either not I would be fine with not adding it, but my preference is to say and or public green space.

Okay. Well, let's do this. I'll make a motion to add to amendment one. It'll still say exactly what he says. We'll just say and or public green space. Kaitlyn, would you add that?

And if I can just say one more reason why I think this is important is that there's a lot of uncertainty about this lot. It was a former gas station. It is a brownfield site. We don't know how much and of what kind of remediation it might need if the city goes forward with purchasing it. So I'd prefer to keep our options open.

That's that's a very, very good point. So let's make a or is there a motion to accept the amendment on the floor to change the verbiage to read affordable housing and or public green space on the same blighted and vacant lot.

So moved.

All in favor? Aye. Next item on the agenda oh I'm sorry. Is is there a motion to vote on r thirty eight twenty four as amended to for the full council?

So moved.

So

moved. In favor?

Aye.

Aye. Next item on the agenda is ID 2825 Admiral Oaks update. So we do have public here. We'll do two minutes. Yeah, one second. We'll do two minutes public testimony. You'll say your name, your address at the mic. I'll start with allowing the alderwoman to speak and then we'll jump into the discussion on Ameren Oaks.

Thank you Alderman Jay, Alderman Gay, and members of the Housing and Human Welfare Standing Committee. Rhonda Pendell, Charles and Abbot City Council, Ward 3. I represent the residents who reside in the Admiral Oaks community. I'm just gonna give kind of a light background, especially for those who aren't privy that Alderman Huntley just joined our team. Anyway, I've been on the council since December 2013.

Since that time, we've had a plethora of property managers at that time serving Admiral Oaks, and I kind of equate it to how many times have we changed underwear since then. I exaggerate, but we've had quite a few. One to the point who wouldn't even speak to me. Others who've been very friendly. In October 2022, I accompanied the property manager and team city to inspect 150 of the units.

I did not go inside. That is a private place for our residents. I stood on the sidewalk, but two residents did ask me to come in and take a look. Out of, I think it was 150, we had all but three had violations. I spent four entire days during that time because I wanted to see how it went.

And at the end of the fourth day, I asked two questions. First question was did everybody understand what went on the other four days, and the second question was did anyone have any questions. So I wanted to make sure once we left there everyone was clear as to what was going on. The group came back January. Three months later, I was not able to accompany everyone on that tour and that time of inspection, but my understanding based on the report I got, I think it was all but two, were rectified to some degree.

A few months later in East Easter of twenty twenty three, I got a call from a resident on Easter Friday, Good Friday, and said, miss Rhonda, it's a mess over here. All these garbage cans have a lot of trash overloaded in every trash can. Not that I didn't believe the resident by myself went over there, took some pictures, and indeed that was the case. I was appalled at what I saw. I went back home.

I sent an email to the top to the bottom of enterprise management, And I indicated to them well, I told them that within twenty four hours from Saturday from Friday, Good Friday at 06:00, that that stuff should be cleaned up because no one no one, especially during Easter, but anytime, should have to suffer through what I saw. Well, by 06:00 on Saturday, the day before Easter, it was cleaned up. We called them in, I believe it was in May 2023, and we were assured by mister Seawright, by miss Princes, that everything was fine. We wanted really to have quarterly meetings, but they seemed very sincere. Miss Lavi and miss Jennifer, who I had the best relationships with there in the office, were there.

They were very attuned. They were very friendly. Whenever I came over with an issue, they took care of it right away. So much, in fact, till last summer, I can't I was to bring over to them two, city Alderman citations because they had been so wonderful, in their processes and in their responses to the residents. I found out, I guess it was three months later, that they were gone. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked. The stories that I heard as to why they were gone were very troubling. They had been the best I had ever seen of the ones we'd had there. So anyway, like I said, we didn't have the quarterly meetings.

I was very upset about the fact that Ms. Lavey and Ms. Jennifer weren't there. I asked management is there some way that I could contact them? They said no. So anyway, we decided to have another meeting with the Housing and Human Welfare Committee. We started, I believe, in November, but there had been some issues trying to get meetings, and then the holidays came. So it was not our fault totally, but it definitely wasn't anyone else's fault. So finally, we are here today. And today, our city council associate, miss Jackson, received a email from miss Princess.

This is dated Wednesday, 02/12/2025 at 03:36PM. Quote, Mister Seawright is out of the office this week. I fully intended to attend tonight's meeting, but due to a personal health emergency, I'm unable to do so. I will make every effort to attend next month's meeting. I appreciate your understanding, and thank you in advance for your consideration, unquote. They were given notice about these meetings. I don't know what happened. I'm not gonna speculate as to what it could be. Course right now, it is 06:57, and they are not here. Today, we do have residents.

We have advocates and supporters of these residents, about 12, including our HACA executive director, miss Melissa Maddox Evans, as well as our planning zoning director, mister Jakubiak. Miss Toni Strong Pratt is here with her house husband, and they, work diligently with our residents as far as issues are concerned. Over the past several months, we've gotten a numerous numerous number of emails and photographs as to what the conditions look like at Admiral Oates. Again, this situation should not be one that people have to live in. I'm going to suggest, number one, that for the next meeting in March, that we get three dates from mister Seawright and miss Princes on the days they can come.

And if we can accommodate them, then so be it. But also I'm asking, and we don't have the office of law here today, do we have subpoena power to bring them in here? I don't know the answer to that question. But what I will say is I hope they hear me. I hope that they hear me because this is appalling.

Now what I will say too this summer, we the mayor's office and I went around to the different communities giving microgrants for communities to do community work. We went to 15 communities. We had someone to accept the micro grant at every community except for Admiral Oates. There was no one in the office. The day that we went, the office was closed.

We have tried to be the best that we can be when it comes to these residents. Now what I will say is miss Princess has reached out to me, about coming over and meeting, I think the new lady's name is miss Williams maybe. I have not met her. And I will say this, I answer all my emails, but I am so appalled until I've not answered any one of miss Princess's emails. But what I will say is this, since I have not been answering them, she's been pretty accommodating.

She has responded to certain situations via email. Now whether these situations have been rectified, I don't know. So my feeling is if I don't respond to her, then obviously something is moving. But that is not the way I operate. But I figure whatever way I operate, if it works, then so be it. So anyway, I guess that's my tirade for today. Thank you so much, committee.

No problem. Thank you very much, alderman. I think I'm trying to decide what we should do next because, obviously, wanna allow public testimony, but I also wanna get into discussion with some of the stuff that the other woman had mentioned. So let's bring forward first Mhmm. If possible, director Jakubiak and the director Maddox Evans.

We'll jump through any questions that the committee have, and then we'll obviously get into public testimony. But I I just wanna speak on the Amarokes issue first that and I I think that's important. I'm I also wish that we too had our if you too wouldn't mind today. Thank you. I also too wish that we had our office of law here and I thought I made a point of saying at the last minute that regardless of what you think on the agenda would need the attorney, the attorney should be here because they're paid to attend the committee meetings.

They're assigned committee meetings, so they should be at the committee meetings. It's it's we all came here. It's the least that they could do. My question in regards to first, if if you wouldn't mind just explaining your the housing authority's relationship with Admiral Oaks because what I don't also want people to get is thinking that this has something to do with the operation of the housing authority. Could you explain that relationship?

Yeah, make sure it's

going. Hello?

Thank you.

Sure. Thank you for inviting me today to the commission to answer any questions you may have. The housing authority of the city of Annapolis does not have a direct relationship with Admiral Oaks in terms of ownership of either the land or the buildings or nor are we involved directly in any management of that property. We do however have an indirect interest if there are residents there that are utilizing a housing choice voucher that live on our properties. And so we do administer a tenant based housing voucher program in which a participant can find homes throughout the city of Annapolis and even in Anne Arundel County.

So we do have residents now I don't know the exact number that do utilize vouchers at the facility. In that there is a requirement to have an annual inspection of their particular unit and that is what our inspectors would be involved. So if we do receive a complaint from a participant that has a voucher we would go out and conduct an inspection in addition to the standard annual inspection.

The number of residents that have vouchers on the property you know, directly linked to the housing authority in the city, would it be less than 50?

It would be,

yes. Correct. Yeah. Alright. Any questions for miss Maddox Evans or any questions for second question and the follow-up?

I greatly appreciate the notes that you sent to us this afternoon, director Jakubiak. And this has to do primarily with the enforcement authority that the city of Annapolis has had. And I think that's something that continues to allude the council and are trying to gain an understanding of what authority do we have when these nuisance properties have a continued pattern of neglecting their residence? That was a question that I did ask of the Office of Law. They did pull up certain portions of the code for me and we're in an email back and forth and trying to figure out if there is a portion of the code that we could address or maybe add amendments to.

But to your knowledge, is there something that we can do with an authority? In an email that you sent to us this afternoon you noted that on January 7 they started the process to have their annual inspections and all of that. And they're scheduled to take place on the eighteenth and the nineteenth of this year which coincidentally I will say February 18 is my birthday. When is there can the planning department actually not allow them to move forward the inspections? In essence, hold off from the inspections and and by proxy their licenses, relicensing the properties until we have a legitimate plan from the development corporation that they would move forward with some sort of rehab to the to the property.

I asked that just because I do appreciate that you all you know, you also sent the air quality test and all of that. And there seems to be like even with, you know, with the inspections, it's like they pass the inspection because they meet, you know, the minimal threshold, but the minimal threshold has residents in just a terrible quality of life. And I don't think that's the fault of us because we're obviously operating within the confinements of the law. But what can we do then to change that? What's in our in our in our authority?

And either of you all could jump into that. I'm curious in your position, can the planning department hold out on those annual inspections?

Well I don't know that we can refrain from doing our annual inspections, particularly if the manager follows the procedures properly to file for them and pay for the annual inspections. And after all, it's the annual inspections that are meant to uncover issues and remediating these issues are meant to improve conditions for residents. So if we hold back, we may not find out or uncover issues that otherwise we could fix or see fixed. So I don't know that it's in our interest to hold back those annual inspections. Perform a good role.

Yeah, exactly. And I shouldn't say that because we got ourselves into trouble with that before. But

don't but why well how

okay if we're not postponing the inspection, that's much better word, until the property is, you know, coming forward with a commitment that they would, you know, rehab the units. Can the planning department inspect at a higher threshold than we currently are that would essentially force the property owner to remediate the unit or to rehab the units. And when I say rehab the units, I'm not sure if the other one would agree with me, I think at this point necessary for, you know, maybe just as you all have just done in Bloomsbury Square, unit by unit they strip it down to the drywall and you know just completely redo the entire thing. Because again, the the repetitive repetitiveness in these issues can only get worse. And I think what's different with this property, unlike HACA, they actually collect rent steal.

They actually have, know, to my knowledge reserves through HUD that they could actually pull down and rehab their units with. So I just don't think they're doing all they can.

What I can suggest and I had an opportunity very briefly to talk with some of the residents just before coming up to sit in front of you. And I'm impressed by their concerns that extend beyond calling in with issues and then we send the inspectors out. The contractors fix the issue that's apparent. We certify that the inspection is sound and we step away. But apparently in some instances there's an underlying issue that is not being addressed, a fundamental issue.

So what I would suggest actually during this period of leading up to the inspections and during the inspections, while we still have the authority to hold the licenses, is a meeting with the owner of the property. Not simply the property manager, but the owner which I understand is the enterprise and have them come meet with us so we can discuss these more foundational issues. It doesn't benefit us and we're not applying the city's codes properly if if they're in fact evidence of underlying structural issues that are being patched over. Know that's just we can't do that. There are these issues then I need to know about them and we need to sit down with the owner and come up with a game plan.

As far as our annual inspections and our just routine inspections, the person sitting next to me can attest that the city staff does not go lightly on any residential unit. Inspections are tough in Annapolis and among, I believe, the toughest in the state of Maryland. But that doesn't correct the situation. That is more foundational. If there's literally water coming into a building somehow or if the structure is somehow in need of major modernization, those types of issues would need to be addressed.

And it's okay for the city to ask an owner what is the status? Prove to us that these issues that are recurring are just flukes. Because we have a suspicion that it's more tied to structural condition of the building itself and we need to grapple with that at a different level.

And I honestly don't think they know. And part of I don't say that lightly, but you know, I share frustration with you with this, the property management company and development company. Well, they're development property management and resident services company is what they market themselves as. But I do share your frustration with that. In our preparation for this meeting, one of the individuals reached out to me and said, well, what units?

What concerns? And you know, my thought is, well, why am I doing your job? You're the property management. It's not my responsibility to take note of the issues that residents or the city find in your units and then to communicate those to you and then to follow-up on what actually needs to be done. I just don't think that is acceptable.

And I also think that the not the property management, but the company is themselves. I do think that they are taking us lightly because we aren't clear on our subpoena powers. And that's what we need the attorney to tell us. Do we have to go to the circuit court and actually have them get involved and have them send a letter to say, hey, you have to show up to this meeting? Or do we have our attorneys do it?

We need clarity on that so that at the I don't think it should be at the next meeting. I actually think it should be before because our next meeting at this point is scheduled for March 17 which is a month away. If we have an opportunity to meet with them in between time, I think we should do so, In particularly with the planning director so that they could address those meetings. I can't believe that Kevin C Wright who had been communicating with us would be out of the office this week when there had been clear indignation that this meeting was taking place. He called me and we had been playing phone tag and so we missed each other. But I can't believe that that would not be communicated to us.

I have not heard from him at all since probably our last meeting.

Okay. So that's where that stands.

In answer to your broader question, and I'll be quiet because I want There to listen to the residents are the question of what more legally can the city do. I can't opine on that. You've already asked the city attorney's office, so I'll wait for their answers too and coordinate with them as necessary. But there are two sections of city code that relate to housing and housing condition. And that's title 18, which is landlord tenant relations.

So there might be something there that's relevant that we should all consider. And then of course, seventeen and seventeen point four four which is the rental unit license and the inspection regime and all those requirements that are imposed on property owners. So there's a lot in them and it may be that it's time to relook at those and maybe it's necessary to offer changes that deal with issues that you're seeing. I don't know if that's in fact the case, but that's something I'm willing to work with Mike Lyles in the law office about.

That would be fantastic because I'm and I I I don't know if I checked that title 18. I definitely have 17Dot4Dot84 here. This is with the correctional notice as it relates to the, I guess, the inspection process. When they say the notice shall advise the owner, agent, operator, occupant as the case may be of the right to appeal to the board of appeals and shall state that unless the condition violating this chapter is corrected within the time specified, the owner, occupant, or operator as the case may be may be prosecuted for the violation. What is the prosecution?

Well, that's when we file a civil citation.

Okay.

And a court data set and the city advances to prosecute the citation like we do routinely. It would be that that is the authority that gives the city the

right Which is the extent of our at this time.

To collect fines and otherwise impose burdens on the owner that doesn't comply with the law.

Alright. I appreciate it very much. I think Alderman Schandelmeier had a question as well. Yes, thank you Mr. Chairman. So

when inspections are done, if we miss something, let's say at the time, let's say we inspect a unit and we either miss an issue or an issue develops after the inspection and it's called to our attention later, do we have the ability to pull a rental license after we've already given it?

If the repair is not fixed, we have to provide due process an opportunity to fix the repair. If we've missed it, then we would notify the owner, property manager to remediate the issue. If there's no fix, yes.

How long is the fixing deadline given?

I don't know. I know what the code provides for. It might be up to the discretion of the inspector based on the extent of the project. But I can't recall what the code provides for there.

Okay, if you could please get that to us later.

And

Excuse me. Sorry. I guess one of our other follow-up questions that I'm having is how often do we trace these structural problems to these buildings. Because I feel like we're giving approvals to units where same issue kind of pops up time and time again. Whether it's leaks or mold issues and part of these buildings are just old.

Yeah. They're past their useful shelf life personally. Might be close to redevelopment time on them, but Right. They are still places where people are living and we need to make sure they're upkept well, as well as possible. So how often do we actually trace those dots and connect those dots for what are those structural issues and how what's our enforcement mechanism on making sure they're actually addressed?

That's a good question. And I don't have the legacy here in the time with the department to piece that together. But I can look into that. It's obviously an important issue, a question. So I can get back to the committee on that.

Okay. That's all the questions I have, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. It just looks like we need the I'm looking here. Community development division of enterprise if we could that's where the bulk of of this lies as I just looked through their web page. Any further questions before we just hear from the public on this? So we'll follow-up with the attorneys, get the advice that we need from them.

I think the main objective is to figure out a way that we can either amend title 17 or 18 to allow the I don't know if we want to give this the authority to the city council or the authority to the planning director to take further action on nuisance properties. And then we have to look at I guess, you know, neighboring jurisdictions and and say, well what actually what punishment can we actually, you know, inflict on the development or residential service provider? Because the the catch 22 is is that if we take the license offline, the resident really is not supposed to be living in the unit. And so you have a unit that's not online, that's not being inspected, and a resident living in the unit. If we find them, it's a million dollar company that pays our thousand dollar fine and you know they they they can they just have the capital to do that.

So we really can't pull the license. We the fine is not enough. So we need to be able to figure out what authority and if we have to go to HUD I think that's also who we should actually last point Denise made a very very good point in conversation that we should be pulling in a HUD representative here. And I don't know if we bring them into this meeting that we're setting up in the meantime or we bring them to the next housing and human welfare committee meeting. Obviously we'd have to find out who the appropriate individual would be.

Or do we go through DHCD maybe and have someone be a representative there. Nonetheless we would need help from a much larger agency than us. Alderman?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My major concern I guess, when there's a unit that goes offline, the displacement of the residents. Those who have children, those who work and depend on a certain modem of transportation, the bus schedule with the school system, all of that is disruptive. And that's really a lot of my concern. I mean, I'm concerned about everything, but that's a big part of my concern as well, the disruption of lives. So thank you.

Alderman Kay?

Yeah. Of course. Alderman.

I just want before I appreciate both of you here. We were talking a lot here about the ability of the city council to compel witnesses, and I just while we were all talking, did a little bit of looking. It's in our city charter and in our city code that the I'll read it to you. City Council and any of its standing committees through its chairman may summon and require the testimony of any witnesses, require the production from any witnesses summoned of any paper which may be of interest in any hearing. And then later on we have any person who is summoned under those provisions and fails to appear is guilty of a misdemeanor.

So if if the chairman is interested, I think we could vote on compelling folks to attend.

We need to figure out what the attorney would like us to do. I mean, if if there's a vote tonight, we do the vote. But if it's I'm assuming that we would have to have some official written notice sent to the

Offending party.

Yeah. And individuals that we'd like to come forward in and yeah. So I want to is that the I've feasibility on reached out

to Office of Law letting them know that you've had this that you have this question.

Okay. Okay. Awesome.

Thank you Ms. Buckland.

Thank you both as well. We'll definitely be in touch and hopefully we're meeting within the next week with the appropriate parties whether it be virtual or in person. Alright. Let's start with public testimony.

Thank you both.

Just line up here. Would like to speak, just share your name and your address. And just make sure that the green light is on.

Oh, hi. Looks like we have several residents that's from Admiral Oaks, I believe. We have a lot of major concerns going on down there. Where's the

we start, before we start, you you need your name and your address.

Oh, yes. Hi. My name is Angela Neal. I'm originally from the 4th Ward. Urban manure had came in, so we had to relocate to Murray Hill, Southgate Avenue for forty five years. Wisdom, my family sold the property, So through being a veteran, I end up having veteran preference under a voucher program to move to Admiral Oaks, Newtown 19, Boston Heights, Captain Circle. We have another resident.

Well, yeah. Just do it one at a time because what we'll do is yeah. Yeah. You get I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. You'll do three minutes. She'll do hers, and then whoever else will yeah.

So the city of Annapolis had came out apparently, what, 2021 or 2022, to do inspection on several units. So they sent in contractors. I don't know whether they were licensed contractors or just special people that knew how to do patch up, paint up, cover it up, so we can remain in our units. But I understand if we have all these structures and issues going on down there that no one is attending to where so we don't have the property can't find the property manager, the property owner not here. No one's here.

So it's like we've been pushed back on all these issues that have been neglected. So, they had a they had like a boys and girls club that originally was going to be shut down. But by the community being mostly brown, like 98.2% of the brown folks there, and about 3% of us black African Americans there. So, we feel as though that the issues are like the sewer, backup, water problems, the structure, the floors, wet carpet, mold, mildew, you name it. I sent I constantly contact them at the rental office where so they don't either don't pick up the phone, or we've been through so many different property managers down there, where so a lot of information had been shredded.

So, once you make a phone call and say that this is going on, it doesn't get repaired until housing authorities set up an inspection to come in. So, once housing is requiring to inspect the unit, then that's where as though you'll get a garbage disposal that you had a bucket under the sink for like six months, a toilet backup where as though you took the proper measures to contact them, clean up any backup around the toilet area, whereas though you have a maintenance person that's going to come in and seal feces around the toilet. Okay? I have two pieces of plywood that is on top of the roof, so I decided to take my money over to Astro because the leakage was so bad. Apparently the water had ran down through the structure onto the floor with those wetness of the carpet.

It caused some anxiety, wisdom, it caused health problems. And I understand that if they don't get their license, then that means that they will be, what, shut down. I don't know whether the health is important or somewhere to live. But the quality of living with sewer backups can't get no one from the company, can't find the owner of the property, but I'm quite sure someone knows who owned that property. But other than that, it took for me to go to the Boys and Girls Club and to make a phone call to two people that showed concern about our issues to come and address the issues and to guide us into the right directions of resources.

So I had spoke to Ms. Strong back here, and as though she had told me to, you know, place my money at ASTRO, and she was gonna contact them at the rental office. But as though they don't pick up the phone, they don't show up. So they had an event at the Boys and Girls Club that was almost shut down. So they had was giving out turkeys at that event. And we have another resident that give out turkeys that's from Admiral Oaks. So that day, it was inside. So once I went inside, they had some resources in there.

I think it it was we got just closing statements. Say again? Closing statements because the buzzer's gone. Oh, the buzzer? Yeah. Yeah. You can wrap it up. You can wrap it up.

Oh, just wanna wrap it up. I wanna thank Tony Strong for being an advocate. I wanna thank Keon New for coming to my unit and inspecting my unit and getting me in the right direction and having them come in and fix it. And they sent me to a hotel for eight days, but it's still mold and moisture, We're dying from the mold. They sent out a Newsweek letter saying the fungus is among us and the mold is a killer. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next. Just

make Yes, sure hot.

Name and address.

Teria Davis, 458 A Captain Circle under the management of Edgewood manage I mean, Enterprise Management. As miss Pindell stated earlier, the turnovers in the office are excessively ridiculous. In 2022, I was displaced from my home because my bathroom had excessive mold in it. I reached out to miss Pratt here, and she sent out city inspectors, which they condemned my home. Upon being in the hotel, I was there for seven months.

I went back into my unit roughly two days after the home was condemned because I had to grab things to be at the hotel. All of my things were damaged, about 85% of those. 15% were damaged by mold. I reached out to the rental office via email, telephone, and the portal, which is an accessible guide and tool for the residents. The mold is amongst us, as they said in the newsletter.

It's very deadly. It is living in inhumane conditions, which is very poor conditions. My bathroom was just again in 2025. Recently, three weeks ago, the mold had came back again. I reached out once again to miss Pratt, and she diligently got those inspectors back out. They have condemned the unit upstairs in the bathroom. They had to rip out the tub. Amongst them doing so, they pulled up a couple pieces of the plywood in the floor, but not the subfloor. I had suggested to them that they do so because for I had been living in my unit for eight since I was the age of 18. My unit in front of the bathroom used to be very overly heated and hot on the floor.

Well, they poured the duct floor the subfloor up and found that for eighteen years of me living there, there was no ventilation in the bathroom, which the city inspectors also noted to them that was a problem as well and could reoccur over time. Since then, they have just ripped up the bathroom floor again, and now it's mold underneath the bathroom subfloor again. The conditions there are very poor. The outreach program that are given to most are not reachable. I've sat there and spoken to several managers in the office, but nothing is being done. Thank you.

If you wrap up, you did good? Okay. Anybody else want to speak? Miss Pratt?

Good evening. My name is Tony Pratt. Just sitting here listening to this really is triggering and traumatizing because I've been doing this since 2021, and these are not isolated incidents. The few residents that you have here doesn't speak of the totality of issues that we have on that property. The property is majority the majority of the property is Hispanics, and they are afraid to come forward.

So if you think the residents that spoke today in the horrific conditions they're living in, just think of the ones who don't want to speak because they're putting themselves in danger. And I'm going to tell you about an incident about a year ago. Brooks and I I Florida, was I believe. I was out of town. And a resident called me. It was a Hispanic resident. And a resident was in her living room with ankle deep water. And we had to be on the phone for hours. Brooke I know Brooks remembered that, trying to get this resident someplace to live. Finally, at the 90, they moved her out of that unit.

I've seen residents living in black mold, and the contractors and the maintenance come out and use a specialized paint to paint overtop it. But when you don't get to the source of the mold, it comes back. So these residents are living in black mold. And if you know when mold gets the spores, the stacked spores, I can't even think of what it is, stacky spores, they come and they cut out the residents' walls, and they put these big fans in it. And spores are going all through the house. You have babies. You have people. You have humans living in these conditions. And the city comes out. My problem with the city's inspections are cause I lived in public housing.

I lived in subsidized housing. And and the happens in a city inspection is they come out, they look in the refrigerator to make sure that the lights are working. They make sure the smoke detectors are working,

and they

leave. So to find any of those other problems that are going on, they aren't unless the residents are speaking up. But let me tell you what happens when the residents speak up most of the time. They are retaliated against, and they do it in a way that if you have a lease violation, I'll tack it to the lease violation so it won't look as if I'm retaliating on you. But now residents are becoming more aware, more knowledgeable, and more educated on how to fight back.

This is the city of Annapolis. Of the Ann Arundel County is one of the wealthiest places in the world. And there is only two feet from Downtown Annapolis and these properties that we're talking about. And we will not have this happening in Downtown Annapolis without everybody on this city council doing something about it. I applaud you, Rhonda, for getting involved.

I applaud you, Brooks, for staying up after time to get something done. Something needs to be done, and something needs to be done now. Because what's gonna happen is we're gonna have another lawsuit, the third one, because now we're in a, what, class action lawsuit for the same inhumane discriminatory issues. This needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. Thank you.

Alderman Shan den Meier. Miss Strong Pratt is also forgetting to include that that was the night before Thanksgiving that she was doing that. So thank you for spending your pre holiday night trying to help some folks.

Thank you very much. Just your name and address.

My name is Carolyn Jones, 4 3rd Of Captain Circle. The property is tax credit that received $18,000,000 funding that they are not using the right way. I've resided there since 2005. The effects of the issues on the inside I'm up already?

No, no, sorry.

The problem is, on the outside, when I was moved to mine 430 from 450, we were on wetland. They had to cement things to water run down off the property to go down in the ground. But when the guy sold the property, he removed all of that. All of the boundaries around the buildings that were all cracked, all of it's gone. So now the water is just going into the building.

When my no. August, they tore up my bedroom to the outside. But I had the little containers in there now. They're filling up with water again. They're addressing the inside, but no one is listening. They need the city people, planning zone, whoever, to evaluate the outside. If they don't do the outside, we're gonna continue to have the problem. But I've told the maintenance people. I've told the engineer David Canes, whatever his name is, he just shuckle. He

didn't

wanna listen. But I'm an old farm lady, and I tell her like it is. They are not doing it right, and they're taking it personal. When the residents approach them, they become angry like we're at fault. It's the property itself. It's wetland. When they did the reconstruction, I went around to look at the building I'm in. Nothing but water. Did they put sand and rocks under that building? No. They just sand it all and left it just like that. So the issue is from the land itself. It needs to be torn up. Well, everything needs to be torn out, but we need more dirt. We're going down on the ground.

So the zoning and planning, that's what we need. Enterprise, they don't know. We need someone that's dealing with building structure Because we're gonna be talking here, and they're gonna be fixing on the inside. And the same problem over and over and over again. My windows, you can feel the air coming through.

I got a letter was sent to them to fix it, but it all goes back to the engineer. He's never been there on the property to support whoever they have there. During the summer I pointed out to David Haynes about the roof in April, he took the picture, but they're just getting around and doing something. He's not doing his job. That's all I have to say. And I thank you all for listening. But it's the outside issue that they need to fix. It's the building and the structure itself. There is no insulation in the walls when they tore my walls out. It's the brick and the sheetrock.

That's it. Thank thank you.

You all.

No. Thank you. Thank you for coming forward and providing testimony. And I will echo and she what she just said makes me think of when our colleague, Otto Woman Tierney, was on this committee. As she went out to the property as well and she was a former engineer, and the very first thing that she said was, I don't know how this is standing up when all the water is

It's wetland.

Driving into the into the bottom of the property. And so I I I again, that's something that we'll, you know, definitely have planning in in zoning to take a look at. But I vividly remember alderwoman Tierney mentioning that. Any other testimony?

Keanu Smith Brown. I it's difficult to sit down and listen to these stories, to be on the phone calls for hours listening to the pain and the conditions that these families are living in. I used to live in Admiral Oaks and, you know, I grew up with Alderman Gay Duongay and Admiral Oaks and the conditions back then were not livable. So to see after all of these years change has not been had is to show that someone isn't doing what they need to do. And accountability must come from that.

It is a shame and it's quite disregarding to the basic human right of a quality of life. We must provide that for our residents, all of our residents, regardless of their income, regardless of their background. And so whatever power we have as a city and a people, we need to take that power and use it. So please, on behalf of all of our residents, our family, our friends, we have to do something immediately. So if that is judicial, let's go to the judicial let's take it to the courts.

Let's do it. It's necessary. We don't have to question it. Hearing the suffering, the health issues that many of these families our children are dealing with, the mold are you and we're just gonna sit back and not do anything about that? That is unacceptable.

And so I do not speak because I per se don't have I don't have the the amount of hurt that they deal with on a daily basis, but I try to empathize. You know, I try to see it from their perspectives. I try to be where they may be, but I'm not in that situation. And I am a little privileged to not be in that situation, although coming from public housing, section eight housing, my mom did her best to get us up out of that. But they don't deserve that.

And I'm gonna be there every step of the way, every step of the way, whether you live in Ward 3 or do not. Live in Ward 3. This is our city of Annapolis, the capital of the state. And so I urge you all and the remaining city council members to take a stand on behalf of all of us and to see it from their perspectives and to love and to unify to bring about this transformative change. And I must also call out fam Toni Strong Pratt.

For for years, she has been pushing and advocating. I listen to her and I feel more empowered. I'm already empowered. I feel more empowered because we have to come together to solve these issues. We're not in this alone. Look to your neighbors so that we can get this done. And so I know that Alderman Shannenmeyer, Alderman Gay, and Alderman Huntley will be fighting on your behalf. I know that for certain. And I know the remaining older persons will do the same because they do care. Okay? And so I say God bless you and all of the rest of our city residents. Thank you.

Thank you very very much. Any other additional comments? I think that closes out the portion of this ID which is ID 2825, the admiral looks update. We'll have to, you know, follow-up immediately this week with the office of law. Once we get that information from the office of law, then I guess that gives us marching orders on what we can do with the planning department. So Rhonda, would you then just take the lead of conveying, you know, any updates to the residents of Ward 3?

Certainly. Not a problem.

Yeah. Just in case we have to have them come back or anything like that?

It's up to them if they wanna come back for the next meeting. That's their call. Yes, ma'am.

Come back for the next meeting?

That's your call.

Yeah. And

what will take place in the next meeting about them summons for the owner and the district property manager?

That's their committee's response.

Well well, that's what and that's yeah. That's what we'll figure out. That's what we'll get an update from our city attorney. Once we get an update from our city attorney, then we'll work with our planning department to figure out what we can do. Because right now is do we amend what we have to give us, you know, expanding authority and what will that authority be? Or do we not need to do that? Can we just simply use the existing city code and and figure out what's up? But we'll figure that out. We just don't know yet.

Oh one question. So sit in.

Come to the you to come to the mic.

Oh, yes. So with the next meeting. So, apparently, it seemed as though that the property manager, owner, district manager, princess is not showing up to these meetings and is not showing up to court trials. So, if we came this far from the pushback and being bully about bringing these issues forward and coming this far, what's the next step? I mean, I understand that they are sent sent out the warriors to patch up a whole lot of stuff. City of Annapolis apparently must be coming back out. So if we're still going through these issues, then I think we should take it further.

Well, of course, but that's we're in agreement with you but we just don't know yet. And particularly as you mentioned the next step in the property management not showing up. That's why we were having a conversation and looking at the city code and saying, what leverage do do do we go to the or or I'm sorry. As it relates to the code, do we make that request tonight or do we make that request in writing, which I'm assuming it has to be in writing? We'll let the attorney just give us that or give let us tell us the right thing to do.

If I take a vote tonight to subpoena the property management of Amarillo Oaks, it'll be I'm almost positive that it has no it'll have no meaning. I think the correct thing to do is have our office of law either within their with themselves write something and have it sent out to the enterprise property management or work with the district court which handles most of the landlord tenants disputes to figure out how we fix this issue. But I'm not prepared to take any action tonight just because we don't know what to do.

Oh, so what action should we take? We came this far to City Hall. So do

you think we should just go ahead to the district court? I'm not I'm not gonna tell you that on the

I know, but it's just it seem like it's a rodeo.

No. No. I don't I'm not I'm not gonna tell you that on the dais, but this is what I'll say. It's it's Wednesday the twelfth. We'll be following up with the office of law when she's already sent a message tonight. Once we get, you know, our marching orders from them, we'll work with Chris's department to figure out the next steps. He's already made us aware that their inspections are scheduled for the seventeenth and the eighteenth, which are next.

Oh, So eighteenth and they're coming back out

the eighteenth and the nineteenth? Eighteenth and nineteenth. That'll give us a little more insight to what's going on. Our next meeting is scheduled for March 17. But as we alluded to earlier, that's a month away. We don't wanna wait wait until then. So we need to get in touch with the property management as well to make sure that they can get here. So I I don't know what I can tell you as in as it relates to marching orders that the residents can do, but I I know what we will be doing, which is as I've just laid out to you. Okay. So try to get law and then and then work with

So the city of Annapolis is coming back out. What date? The seventeenth and the eighteenth. Okay. So as the city of Annapolis people are coming out, so are y'all coming out to inspect all the units or just the units that they had someone out to come out and repair?

It's an annual inspection, so all the units have to be inspected.

Okay. So it's electrical it's the electrical I'll let you I'll let you speak

speak to Chris.

Need to be checked because

the water damage is real. It's through the structure. And I I'm not I'm not saying that I don't believe that, but I don't know what they act what the actual inspection process is. So I'll let you grab Okay. Let let you grab his ear really quickly. And and, Chris, if if you'd like, can also or I'm sorry. Deputy Buckland, if you'd like, you can send us that that standard policy and procedure for the inspections and, you know, we can share that with the residents as well.

Oh, yeah. I just wanted to know who has how many violations did Enterprise have when they came out the last time? That's all.

Somebody can get that information for you. Hold on. Because I got three questions on the diocese as well. The first is Alderman Schandelmeier. I'll go to my colleague on Huntley

and then Schandelmeier? Yes. Can director Jakubiak come back to the table please? Thank you, sir. Thank you mister chairman. Director Kubiak, so when one of the residents brought up how there was a lot of mold underneath the tubs and the subfloors of the bathrooms, I'm assuming that's not covered in the inspection process because that's a very deep dive into it. Is that a correct assumption on my part?

I don't know that's that's incorrect. I'm gonna explore that. I know the Davis experienced this mold issue and the inspector that went out there required that the floors and the subfloors be replaced and then things became known that weren't known previously. So they took it one step further. So I don't know necessarily that our inspections stop just at what can be seen.

And it would make sense to me that if there's evidence of systemic problems, the inspector should explore those. And that's what Mary Emrick did in this latest inspection. So that might be the level of inspection that's necessary to document issues, vulnerabilities, potentialities that need to be investigated. So this may require a different type of inspections that heretofore haven't happened. But I'll say I, you know, I shouldn't use this as an excuse but I am still new to this position and I don't have the background that the residents have shared with you.

So I'm learning tonight and that's why I'm glad I'm here. But I'm convening a staff meeting already tomorrow morning with our inspectors and our chief inspection officer to cover these issues.

Yeah. Thank you. I think especially in this case since these are pretty systemic issues with very frequent complaints on this and we do have very compelling testimony from a resident. I do think that deep inspection especially in the bathroom areas is warranted. This has been several times when residents have come forward to us from the Amarillo Oaks community. Mold issues in the bathrooms has been a frequent complaint. So there's obviously something wrong with the design of the bathrooms in those buildings.

And if I may add, just follow-up to that. The issues may in fact be outside issues, exterior issues, and that it may require an inspection that is much more comprehensive than the city has done in the past.

As comprehensive as possible should be conducted. I appreciate your agreement on that. My second question is in regards to the issue brought up that these are port drainage areas. Do we have the ability to compel redesign for drainage on our part? Is that something within our power? Or is that

For storm water engineer. Can our storm water engineer Can our storm water engineer

require this? Or is this something that we can only compel redesign and restructuring of the buildings themselves for the residents. And outside the buildings we're just kind of

hapless. Well it doesn't do anyone good to keep patching up problems that are related to exterior issues and conditions. So I think within the spirit of the code, we need to look at these exterior issues as well. So I'm gonna do that. And if we need legislative backup, we will come to you, to the city council and ask for zoning text or excuse me.

Not zoning text amendments, but title 17 text amendments that make it make it clear. Fundamentally if a unit, a building is being degraded by the environment, it's not suitable for living. And we have to make determinations about suitability for living. If things are not suitable, it's incumbent upon us to condemn it. And and that's the process that is set up in code. Whether the specifics are in the code that are necessary to do that, we'll we'll figure that out. We'll look into this.

Thank you. Because especially the lower units that are a little more submerged in ground, the drainage is probably the likely source of a lot of these issues. And how the property management company seems to have been dealing with this is a lot of patchwork. Whether they're doing it in good faith or doing it to try and save a buck, I don't know. I'm not going to speculate. But it's not working.

I'm gonna ask the the council to remember who the owner is, not just the property management, that they bear ultimate responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. The managers come and go, but it's the owner who's a national corporation who's lauded as one of the premier affordable housing providers in the country that is responsible for conditions on the property.

What the owner is doing is not working. And so if we have the ability to compel environmental redesign, that may start cutting off a lot of these problems at the source. So that we can stop having to get clean up problems which do help residents but they also disrupt residents' lives. I'd rather just not have the disruption and give them a safe place to live in the first place. So thank you. That's all my questions Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much. I think we have just two more points. Do we need a director for your

I do not.

No. Just one thing I wanna make clear.

It's okay.

I'm not a member of this committee, so that's why I brought it to them. Some of them have some expertise in in this area. Most recently, I've been turning to miss Toni because she has the professional background, and this is what she does professionally. But I've been listening and hearing, and I've been bringing enterprise in here. Well but the next step in my estimation is, like we said, is to look at the office of law because if we're gonna bring them in here the next time and they don't wanna come, then they'll be subpoenaed.

And that brings and that brings on other ramifications, which means we have to go through the step of going to court. So they have to be given notice and that sort of thing to be if if they don't come anymore. But we're gonna check on that this week to make sure that if they don't, then we have to go through the law office to get it right.

Get once wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Miss Neil, one second.

Have I said have I misspoken?

No. No. No. I wanna give the alderman a chance.

Yeah. This is my the I appreciate that you brought this up because this is the point I was gonna touch on exactly. I'm a big believer in working in parallel versus working in series. It sounds like the the plan that the chairman is proposing is that we go to the law office, ask them about doing this, and then we would need to have a vote at the next meeting. And then we could they could be required to appear at the following meeting.

My suggestion, I won't quite make a motion yet, is that if what we want is for these folks to be here, that we vote tonight and say, let us Well, we vote tonight and say, to the extent that we have the authority to do this, and within whatever confines the law office needs that we just do it now. Right?

I don't know if that will give us the

I think it does. So we we were directing the law office to use our power to the extent we have. And if the law office comes back and says, actually, you guys don't have any powers, well then no harm, no foul. Right?

Well, we we've done we've we've done a voice vote subpoena before when we had the when we had the talk to me, please. We've done a voice vote subpoena when we had the admiral's property management here in October 2022. I mean, listen. If it appeases the general public, we can do it. I don't and if we find out that it doesn't work, we'll bring it back.

I agree with you. It'll it'll it'll it'll save us time. We also I'll always have the option of scheduling a special meeting. But so what we'll do is because we gotta wrap this idea up. We'll take I'll I'll entertain a motion from the alderman on on a voice vote. We'll take the voice vote. Regardless of what happens with the voice vote, we'll still follow-up with the office of law. That'll always ultimately lead us back to planning and zoning. And that you know, when and as he just said, we'll either take the policy route or we'll take a legislative approach. So either the council will be involved or the staff will be involved.

So we'll wrap this idea up around Ameren Oaks. So, know, hopefully hopefully that we have some some some end results here in in the year of 2025. As my friend or Keanu has mentioned, we grew up in in Admiral Oaks. I can't remember what my unit was number, but I do vividly remember our our bedroom, the children's bedroom faced the faced the the back. And when it would rain, it would constantly flood our floors, etcetera.

And we were on the Bottom Floor. And so obviously, this is it's a shared lived experience. And so let's I'll I'll let's get this vote on the floor from the alderman, and let's wrap up this ID.

My motion is that pursuant to city code section two point o four point o two o that the housing and welfare standing committee through its chairman summons the testimony of Enterprise. Enterprise to our next scheduled meeting, which I believe is currently scheduled for March 17, but that we compel it to whatever our next scheduled meeting is. But and we that we do so in accordance with whatever powers the law office has determined that we have.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. And any opposed? Alright. So we'll follow-up with law. We'll let the alderwoman from Ward 3 knows what they say and she will convey that to her constituency. We'll all see you hopefully before the seventeenth. So let's let's bank on that. Thank you also for the staff. I wanted to continue this. The reason I didn't postpone was because it had been postponed twice previously. I know the snow kinda screwed everything up, but I just thought it was important. So director Jakubiak, thank you very very much for being here tonight.

We appreciate that. Next item on the agenda is ID 18424, lease behavior modification diversion program discussion.

That's also Aisha who's

Okay. My question is I need to have it instead of being sent out in at 50,000 all at once into two two portions, twenty five and twenty five. And so what I'd like to do ideally is have it a fund transfer on our city council meeting either at the February or at the March so that we can have a trial program underway? Because we we we also have to spend this money before the end of the budget cycle.

I'll connect with Ayesha.

Okay. And and I did you have a chance to check out the the business model that I sent you for this program? It was maybe at the last November meeting. It was a while since we discussed this. I'll I'll reforward it.

Thank you.

Okay. Alright. Alright. So we'll loop back up on this. The lease behavior modification diversion program.

As I've mentioned when I got this in the budget for the amendments is and as we've just seen tonight, it's so important that we have some sort of program or or operation under place with a nonprofit organization where residents are able to be educated on what one, what's in their lease and two, what can they do as residents and as advocates for themselves. And I think it's important to also bring this in is because they always come to us as older people. And sometimes, one, we don't have the capacity. Two, we just don't have the professional knowledge or skill to understand, you know I haven't done property management. I could imagine how I would do property management, but I haven't.

And so, you know, sometimes it's helpful to have courses, expertise, and advocates, you know, leading training on that. And so my plan is to take $25,000 to do one property, $25,000 to do another. And if we like it, bring we it back in the budget in full. And so what we need, the office office of community services and I need to have a fund transfer started on that for our last meeting in February, the first meeting in March. So I'll loop back with Vicki on that. Any other questions on I 18424?

No, sir.

I will close that out. Next item on the agenda is adjourned. Is anything for the good of the order? Is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved. Second.

All those in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed, none. Have a good night.