16 Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Welcome everybody to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. Today is April 20 and the time is 09:07AM. Welcome. Everybody has been working hard so good to see you here as we start our decisions week. My name is Yuki Lei Sugimura. I'm the chair this committee and I want to say that this meeting is being conducted in accordance with the Sunshine Law. As a reminder, when your name is called, if you're not in the council chamber, please identify by name who, if anyone is in room with you or workspace. And minor do not need to be identified. Good morning, Vice Chair Batangan.

Aloha, Kako.

Aloha. Good morning, Member Cook.

Aloha and good morning Chair. Looking forward to today's meeting.

Aloha. Good morning. Member Johnson, you're here.

Yes, yes. Good morning Chair, council members, community members. There's no testifiers at the Lanai District's office. And I'm here and ready to work. Thank you.

Yeah. A lot of work to do. I see Chair Lee will be joining us. Member Palton, good morning.

Aloha. She's live and direct from the council

chamber. And member Rollins Fernandez will be joining us, I'm sure. Member Senensi, you're in Hana, I understand.

Aloha ka ka yakai, everybody. I'm here at my district office. I'm here with district staff Don Lonnel. Chair, we had a successful tarot festival this weekend. Was overcast, so not too hot and a little bit of rain.

Thank you. You got blessed. Yeah. I heard it was successful, from somebody who caught the Emio bus over to Hana. So we regret

We did see Daryl. Daryl performed.

Oh, he did? Chihuahua. Yeah. Wow. That's rare. Somebody must have asked him or forced him. Remember, Oh, Hodgins. Good morning Chair. Good morning everyone. Good morning. All right. So this morning assisting us in today's meeting is a BFED committee staff. Thank you very much for working and taking our calls over the weekend also. Our invited resource persons from the administration include budget director, director of finance, as well as deputy director of court counsel Wigglesworth. Please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity.

Thank you members for attending today's BFED meeting. We have one item on today's agenda which is proposed fiscal year twenty seven budget for the County Of Maui. And members, I will be taking testimony after opening comments from our department. Members, today we begin our decision making on the fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget. Before we begin, I wanted to provide a brief overview of our plans for today and this week.

First, Director Martin will provide her presentation on the RPT of we've And public testimony and proceed with members' questions on the RPT certification. Once that discussion is complete, staff will distribute the members' priorities matrix and we'll do that after. Before lunch, I'd like to address the number priorities permitted for each member. Once that discussion is complete, I plan to recess for lunch so members have time to review the priority matrix. And when we return from lunch, hopefully closer to noon, we will first take up duplicate priorities.

If there are duplicate priorities, the affected members will need to decide who will keep the priority and who will submit a replacement or substitute proposal. Any replacement or substitute proposal for a duplicate priority will be due did we change it to tomorrow morning? Yeah, tomorrow morning. And after we complete duplicate priorities, we will take up broad cuts to the mayor's proposed budget and we'll start with legislative branch and proceed department by department after that in the order used in Bill 55. So we'll look at broad cuts and then we will dig into Bill 55 in the budget and go in that order.

For each department, we will take up members priorities first, then cuts related to members priorities. After that, we will review the operating budget CIP Appendix A Part one and two, rates and fees as applicable before moving on to the next department. Once we finish with the departments, we will move on to general budget provisions and remaining budget related legislation. So we'll take up all of that and then we'll do legislative proposals. Members, my goal for today is to complete all departments up to environmental management. At this time I'd like to I'll start with legislative branch and then go up to Department of Environmental Management for today. At this time I'd like

to invite Director Martin to provide her opening presentation on RPT certification. The RPT certification for members of the public

and the members is granted case number 67. Once we receive opening comments, then we'll do public testimony and then proceed with your questions of which you'll be given three minutes per person.

Good morning, Director. Good morning and thank you for having us here today. I wanted to introduce you to Eddie Manzano. He is our property technical officer, and he has been in charge of these booklets and all of the statistics that this body asked for since 2010. So I'm excited that he gets to be here and he does a great job with providing statistics and numbers for this body and for the Department of Finance.

So the real property tax certification is available for download from the public on mauicounty.gov under assessed values and the presentation will be referring to pages from the 2026 Real Property Assessment Certification Handout for Council and the 2020 selective statistics for budget handout. And the two packets are bound together and they're separated by a hard plastic sheet. So just kind of want to give that briefing. So in this slide, the certified value for 2026 is $83,177,798,400 So the certified value represents gross assessed values, less exemptions, less 50% of the value in dispute from appeals filed by April 9 for the 2026 assessment years. And the certified values multiplied by the mayor's proposed tax rates using the mayor's proposed tiers, less circuit breaker tax relief credits, adjustments for late exemptions, and adding the minimum tax produces real property tax revenues of $660,365,625 So, this figure is $156,548 more than projected real property tax revenue in the mayor's proposed budget.

Marci? Oh, sorry. Director, can I introduce Shirley? Yes. She's sitting here. Good morning, Shirley.

Good morning. Looking forward to the meeting.

Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Now you can continue. Sorry to interrupt you.

So this page shows the net taxable values over the past ten years. So this chart does not include adjustments for appeals. And the current assessments were derived using market data up to 06/30/2025. So assessed values for the '26 assessment year decreased just under 1%, which is relatively stable considering the significant increases in the past nine out of ten years. What page is

that in the booklet?

That is on page 18 in your certification handout.

Thank you.

I'll read the page numbers. So, the next one is page 18 of the certification handout. And our total certified value decreased less than one percent. And it's the same trend as the net taxable values. The difference is this figure accounts for 50% of the value on appeal.

Okay, the next slides are from the second handout, the selected real property statistics for budget consideration. Okay. So, and this is page three in that handout. And this is a summary by land class. So this worksheet compares this year's certification with last year's budgeted real property taxes.

And values have remained relatively stable in most classifications. The long term rental classification continues to grow with 4,350 parcels compared to 3,223 last year. And TBR the SCRH class shows the largest value reduction. And this is the spreadsheet that I usually refer to throughout the year. This is page four of the budget statistics handout.

And this graph is just showing the importance of real property taxes in our overall budget. It's 40.8% of our revenue sources. This is page four of your handout. And it shows that or excuse me, this is page five of the handout. And this graph shows that our certification has been on an upward trend the past ten years, but this year it is relatively stable.

It also shows that our real property tax revenue has doubled within the past nine years. So this is page eight of the handout and this is a graph of a GIS map of our council districts with the various statistics per district. So the current minimum tax is $300 and a little over 7,800 parcels pay the minimum tax. So that's about 10% of our taxable parcels pay the minimum tax. So taxpayers are charged the minimum tax when their assessed value multiplied by the tax rate is less than $300

So

this is page 21 in your handout of the budget statistic handout. And this shows who pays the minimum tax. And the largest group of parcels paying the minimum tax is vacant remnant land or low value land or land receiving agriculture use values for 100% of the parcel. And then the second largest group is the owner occupied class where 2,949 parcels pay the minimum tax in the owner occupied class. So this next slide is page 22 of the handout.

And this slide shows your real property taxes under appeal. And this is showing 100% of the taxes under appeal. As you can see, 55% of the taxes under appeal come from the hotel and the resort class. As I mentioned earlier, the deduction for the certification is 50% of the value on appeal. So that impacts your revenue.

It equates to 50% of the taxes on appeal are deducted from the budgeted revenue. So this next chart is page 25 of the handout, and this shows circuit breaker statistics. So the number of applicants has increased from last year as did the average credit. And the county of Maui passed several ordinances in the past two years which have resulted in these increases. So ordinance 5,681 passed in August 2024 increased the credit amount and the building value threshold.

Ordinance 5,912 passed in December 25 creates a new category for longtime owner occupied properties giving a larger credit of $10,000 and no building value limit. And ordinance five thousand eight and sixty eight passed in October 25, ease the federal transcript requirements for certain eligible applicants. So this slide is page 28 of your handout. And this shows value bands in the owner occupied class along with circuit breaker. So your net taxable value includes the $300,000 home exemption deduction.

So 90% of the owner occupied properties are subject to only tier one tax rates. So it should be noted that 10% of the owner occupied parcels, which are in tiers two and three, of those parcels, 17 have circuit breaker credits. So most of our circuit breaker credits go to property owners with average assessed value amounts. This next slide is page 29 in your handout, and it shows your tax relief statistics. So for this year, about 50% of our parcels will receive some form of tax relief.

So this next slide is page 31 and it gives the long term rental statistics. So the program has finally matured to where we had anticipated. We were hoping to get about 5,000 applicants and we're there. So the division has implemented an online application process and this new process sends reminders to taxpayers to reapply because they have to reapply when their lease expires. Ordinance five thousand eight sixty nine passed in October 2025 does provide an avenue for those who forget to apply for the program preceding the December 31 deadline.

And this chart shows that we have 30 of these late filed exemptions for the current fiscal year and already we have 28 for the new fiscal year. Keep in mind, the goal is zero. We don't want people to be late filed, but it does show that the program is working for some people. And our certification is adjusted 400,000 for these late filed exemptions, which also includes the owner occupied class for late filers there as well. So this is page 35 of your handout, and this is regarding the wildfire property tax waivers.

So ordinance 5,913 past this current fiscal year extends real property tax relief for properties impacted by the August 2023 wildfires. As long as occupancy is prevented by public infrastructure or utility issues, the property was completely destroyed and remains vacant or a building permit has been issued, but it has not been finalized. So about 1,300 properties in this impacted area are back on the tax rolls for this fiscal year. And most of these properties weren't destroyed but had limited access due to roads being closed or utility issues. And they're accounting for 7,400,000 in revenue this year.

And this concludes my presentation. Thank you.

Thank you very much. So members, then at this time, I'm going to open up public testimony. Do we have anybody signed up? Yes, sure. We have two testifiers signed up.

Okay, very good. So if you're sign up testifiers wanting to provide testimony, you should sign up with staff and join the online meeting via Teams link or call in the phone number noted on today's agenda. Testimony on the budget is not limited to the department's scheduled for today. Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via e comment link at mauiconny.us/agendas as well. Under the Sunshine Law, the chair will receive oral testimony for agenda items at the beginning of the meeting and as the meeting is being called up.

For individuals wishing to testify via Teams, please raise your hand by clicking on the raise your hand button. If calling in, please follow the prompts via phone, star five to raise and lower your hand. Star six For those on teams, staff will lower your hand. Once your name is added, staff will then call the name you're logged in under the last four digits of your phone number when your time is called to testify. At this time, will also enable your microphone and video.

Please ensure your name appears in Microsoft Teams as the name you prefer to be referred to as anonymous. If you wish to testify anonymously, if you're in person, please notify staff that you would like to testify anonymously. Otherwise, please state your name for the record at the beginning of your testimony. Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item. If you're not done, I'll give you another thirty seconds.

If you're still testifying beyond that time, I will kindly ask you to complete your testimony. Once you're done testifying or if you do not wish to testify, you can make do that. Sure sure we do testifiers. Thank you, Chair. The first testifier is Jeff Uioca to be followed by Travis Liggett. Oh, wait. Before you testify, Member Rollins Fernandez has joined us. Let us welcome her.

I 'm at my private residence alone. They're currently no surprise to the Molokai district office. And sorry. I I was on. I just had my my video off during the presentation. Mahalojar.

Okay. Thank you. Welcome. Alright. You can tell us about your canoe paddling later. We heard about it from member Palton. Congratulations. All right. Mr. Ueoka.

Thank you, chair. Good morning. I'll try to keep it brief. I know you guys are busy this week. I have a proposal. I'm not sure if the handout came out yet, but this came to me after the mayor's budget was already submitted to the council. And it's a one acre piece on 82 Kanani Road in Keya up the street from Cove Beach. It's approximately an acre. It's zoned And to And Total living area is about 25,686 square feet. Total storage square footage about 17 o two, give or take.

So it has all the permits. It's ready to go. My clients approached me a couple weeks ago, and they said, hey. We're wrapping up our building permits. We're involved in a bunch of other projects. We may not wanna build this ourselves. Would the county be interested? And I said, sounds interesting. Was too late to make it into the mayor's budget, but I know, you know, time is of the essence. Speed is important to everyone to get affordable housing. Proposal is for the council's council to purchase this PR. I'm sorry. The county to purchase this piece of land. Put a could go out to bid pretty quickly for construction. You could potentially build the houses in a year or two.

So, again, they bought the property in 2019. They applied for the new building permits for it because the old prior owner just kinda couldn't couldn't see it through. They applied for new permits in '22, and they expected to start the project in 2024. 2024 came and went. They still didn't have permits.

Fast forward to a few weeks a couple weeks ago, actually. Their permits were finally in those final stages, but they've since then, they weren't just sitting on this one project the whole time. They moved on to other projects. So we would ask for an appropriation in the budget to allow the mayor's office to purchase this or the I guess, the Department of Finance, director Martin would be the negotiator per 3.44 and work with the administration to do do that. Construction funding would need to be budgeted.

I'd assume it would probably be bond funding. Council member Johnson, I think it was in 2022, bill 61, made it so that you could bond the project project and you could pay the debt service through the affordable housing fund. And in this case, this is different from a lot of the other projects as the county would own the land and own the building. So it'd be bondable in at least in my my understanding. But I could be wrong. There's probably a lot of details I don't know. So then the county could do whatever it wanted. It could rent it super low, could rent it high. I'm actually using affordable housing fund to pay the bond. So never mind. So thank you.

Member Paulson has a question for you.

Sorry. That was a lot of words. Did you say if it's in the SME or the slur

It's in the SME. It is well, didn't check, but it shouldn't be in the slurryxa because it's, like, couple blocks up from, South Kihei Road on Kanani Kanani Road. I think I have, like, a little hand on if you it got to you guys, but you can kinda see it's it's far away from the water.

Okay. And you don't wanna say, like, publicly what they want for it?

Oh.

I mean, if that's how it is.

It's probably a high number. I brought on here 8.62. It's subject to appraisal and negotiation, of course, per chapter 3.44. But that's the starting point, I guess.

And then the permits are based on the plans that they had. So if somebody or the county purchased it, they would have to follow those plans.

Yes. The yes. You could probably do minor changes, and the big change would probably be to finishes in the units. Like, if you're making ultra luxury, you put ultra luxury finishes, you know, and

Do you know the average square foot per unit?

The whole thing is twenty five six eighty six. So if you divide that by 32, you're probably better at math than me, but that that would be the average square. It's all two bedrooms. I think the lowest is like 6 something and the biggest are like 900 something for the plans.

You. You have your handout for everybody.

Gave it.

We will get it then. Charlie?

I

question.

That's

No. No. I don't

know. Okay. Oh, okay. You don't know. And but you do know that it was the change in zoning was not using any of, like, a two zero one h or any of the affordable housing mechanisms.

That's my understanding. This was a market project and the affordable housing requirement was satisfied through credits because it was never in type there would never went through like an entitlement process. It's been a two zoned the piece of personal.

Through credits from where?

I don't know. That that I don't know either. Before my guys got it.

Okay. So what you said, it's in the SMA. So did they get their SMA permit?

Oh, yeah. So they have building permits. All the other permits are done already. So the beauty of this project for the county would be this is pretty much as close to shovel ready as you'll get.

Yeah. Sounds like it. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Member Ou Hutchins.

Thank you, Mr. Ouyopa. The plans, are they ADA compliant?

Oh, I'm not sure. I would have to check.

Okay. Because when we gotta do something, gotta be ADA Yeah.

There's an elevator, so I think that makes things a little easier

there. Yeah.

Okay. And then at one point or 8.62, as you said, and then 32 units, that comes out to, like, $2.69 per unit is basically what we're buying.

For a land cost. Yes. Still still gotta go up.

We got to go vertical, but That's a land cost per unit. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair.

Okay. Any other questions? Seeing none. Thank you. Thanks for waiting.

Good luck, thanks.

Any other testifiers?

Sure. The next testifier is Travis Linkett, to be followed by Mike Reyes.

Good morning, committee chair, council members, chair Lee. I just love that shade of orange. It reminds me of council chair's unique shade of orange, so beautiful. But I'm here to just speak a little bit more about my proposed amendment that I just refiled, and it's pretty simple. So I am proposing that effectively someone introduced this amendment, which would, effectively be a referendum on adopting a solution to the stringent total nitrogen requirements of the Lahaina NPDES permit, and basically defunding the fight to suspend those limits because very many industries would like to see a precedent to effectively, defang that decision.

Also allow the NBA regional system to be funded by philanthropy. There have been some concerns about being able to follow simple rules with government procurement that I witnessed firsthand, and I have an actionable plan to actually fund that entire project through philanthropy that I am pursuing. And furthermore, just a quick number. I have been having treatment for an infectious process that emerged after a wastewater plant tour. And just treatments for IVIG retail out of pocket, 10 treatments, 15,000 per treatment is about $150,000 And I have a UIPA response that that is right in line for the power consumption, for UV at a major plant.

So I just think it makes sense. Also, we don't know who's gonna be mayor in January. And if, there's no funding to advance UV at the Kahului facility, and by the way, two thumbs up for advancing the design in Kihei, but if there's no budget item to fund design for the Kahului in January, it doesn't matter who's mayor in January. No one will be able to do that work until fiscal year twenty twenty eight. So I just wanna keep the options open for however maybe mayor, who may actually have a different disposition and want to advance that work because it's just a lot of liability to not have disinfection happening.

And, it's just really smart and it's just an elegant solution. You actually meet the requirements of the NPDES, decision. You advance disinfection, and I think a lot of people agree that these private projects should be on private funding. And gosh, wouldn't it be cool to just say, Wow, this budget amendment is effectively a referendum on adopting a solution, which is what everybody wants to those stringent requirements in the Supreme Court decision, instead of just funding lawyers to try to suspend the limits because that is basically a handout to industries that say don't want to see that Supreme Court decision fully opined. So boy, I've worked hard on this.

It's delivered with love. It's an elegant solution. It's the limu. It's exactly what nature does with the excess nutrients and surface waters. And the idea is this, you're either going to get a problematic limu bloom in the ocean with problem with excess nutrients, or it's like a controlled burn on the Ina. So thank you so much for your hard work and good luck finishing the budget.

Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Liggett? Seeing none. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Next testifier. Chair, the next individual signed up to testify is Mike Reyes, to be followed by Christopher Salem.

Good morning, Mr. Reyes.

Good morning, Chair. Thank you, council members. My name is Michael Reyes. I'm the executive director for Malama Haleakala Foundation, and I'm test ifying today in support of council member Johnson's Nauulu cloud revival budget priority. Specifically, we're proposing a large scale project on Ka'onulu Ranch to control invasive species, mainly black waddle, which has just completely taken over a 107 acres.

We want to remove that waddle and plant 462 native Koa trees. We feel that this is obviously in support of reestablishing native forest and and specifically that cloud bridge that, we'd like to see, reconnect all the way over to to Kolhale. And I guess I'll I'll keep it short and sweet unless anybody has any questions.

Thank you. Any questions for Member Palton?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Reyes. Is there any protections on those trees that they wouldn't be, used for any other purpose? Like, I mean, I know you use Koa trees for Furniture. Cuttings and other things, but is there protections that they would not be cut?

Thank you for your question, council member. I believe the trees would be intended as like a silviculture. So it would be an agricultural practice. I think, typically, trees, wouldn't be, like, even large enough to be harvested for, like, forty years at the earliest. And so it would be I understand.

I just was wondering if there's any kind of, you know, I don't know, contract or something, like, where it wouldn't be used like that. Like, they would stay in the ground and do what they're supposed to do, like, on paper I see. Because that's American style. Right? You can get a don't cut this down and use it for a canoe or something else.

I mean, I I appreciate that. I can I'm sure we can integrate that into the project to ensure that any co trees that are planted are remain for until they're

like a mature co tree. Oh, I kinda want them to remain in perpetuity, not when they're a mature co tree, we cut down? Like because you said the purpose is to restore the Nougou Cloud Bridge. How does cutting down a mature Koa tree then restore the Nougou Cloud Bridge?

So, I I mean, I should say that, at no point have we, like, discussed or or called Noulu Ranch. She's not, you know, in any way stated that their intention is to cut down trees or or for this to be a a a money making operation in any way. I think that the intent was just to replace, invasive, highly flammable, stand of waddle with native forest.

Yeah. I I get that, which, I mean, I don't know if I'll be around here in forty years or anyone, but we would like the trees to be around indefinitely. If you were doing this project with your own personal funds, then, you know, in forty years or however many years, you can do whatever you want. But being that this is a taxpayer funds for a public purpose and the public purposes, then the Oulu Cloud Bridge, to me, I would like it to be there in perpetuity. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely. And I think it's a great point. And I would think that we could work with the landowner to ensure that that that agreement is recorded.

Thank you. Thank you. Any more questions for Mr. Reyes? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Oh, sorry. Member Cook.

Hi, Mr. Reyes. How many acres of black waddle? Thank you for

your question, councilmember. It's 107 acres.

And do that. That.

And then, it would it would likely be the control mechanism would be like a masticator on like, an excavator with a masticating head to just literally remove, like, you know, grind down the waddle. What we don't wanna do is expose the soils. And so by just mulching those trees in place, we ensure that we're not gonna, lose a bunch of soil during a storm water event.

Thank you. Sounds well thought on. Thank you,

sir. Thank you. Any more questions for Mr. Rias? Seeing none, thank you very much for being here. And We'll look forward to hearing more from Member Johnson. Next testifier.

Chair, the last individual signed up to testify is Christopher Salem.

Good morning chair members of the county councils just want to verify the microphone is on.

Yes we can hear you.

Okay. My budget testimony this morning speaks to the February 2026 fraud risk assessment prepared by Spire Hawaii LLP, presented to the county auditor and the Maui County Council. While that report identifies general concerns regarding fraud risk, internal controls, the need for quote a county wide framework, it fails to address the central issue before this council. Who currently holds the responsibility for fraud oversight under the Maui County Charter? And why have those existing authorities not been performed upon in the duties to protect the county residents?

The report repeatedly references jurisdictional overlaps and conflicts in the absence of a countywide process. The charterer already establishes three separate oversight powers and authorities relevant to fraud and misconduct by county officials. First, under the charter, this council holds the power and duty to investigate violations of Maui County

Is it?

Of county laws and ordinances. The Maui County Council has the authority to investigate actions the administration require production recommend records and determine whether director decisions were made in accordance with adopted county laws. Where the violations are found, the power provides for penalties, including fines, and where appropriate, even imprisonment imprisonment. Second, the office of the county auditor established by the county charter section three ninety two has the same duty and powers to conduct investigations related to the county's finances. The auditor is required to report any potential instances or allegations of fraud.

Third, the Costa Government Commission under charter three ninety three and thirteen two has the power and duty to study and investigate organizations. Again, subpoena powers, all the powers necessary to address fraud. In other words, the charter provides overlapping oversight authority through this council, the county auditor, and the government the Costa Government Commission. The spire reports troubling. Instead of identifying which of these charter authorities repeat we failed to act.

The report shifts to discussion towards generalized future process reform. I'm gonna shift to a coaching metaphor. You know, everybody loves to go out and play with the balls or control the money like this council is currently doing and hear all the good things that that provides. But you know one of the obligations of being the head of a head coach of a program is that. A lot of times discipline comes into play.

And a lot of times parents come into play, putting demands upon us as coaches. That stuff is no fun. But it is my duty as a head coach and has been for over thirty years. It is your duty as a council all the way from Pat Wong to Moana Ludi's statements about no knowledge of SMA permits and gambling earnings and all of this evidence has been brought to this council over the last thirty years. I'll wrap it up.

Not once has this counsel ever adopted a formal investigation, and we had that chance with a stop work order on Greg Brown, but that was too expensive. But it's easier to spend a million dollars on litigation than 92 on I'll wrap it up. The bottom line, it is the responsibility of this council to put an end to all this litigious nonsense.

Thank you. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Anybody have questions? Okay. Thank you very much. No questions.

Obviously.

Next testifier.

Chair, I see one individual approaching the podium.

Aloha. For everybody being here. It can be here on time on Monday morning. Aloha. Hi. Kashiwa Sugimura. It's okay. Let me start with a good poem, John. Velina. That's the good that's the good poem. We'll start with the good news today. A greeting of affection similar to aloha, a salutation in a letter. Okay. So I'm glad we're still on the the budget thing and the tech the thank you department for being here. Like, I was in the lobby listening to some of it.

All that banking stuff, don't really, it's like way over my head, so I just catch like little pieces of pennies from heaven there. And I think we're talking about the property taxes, and, I'm wondering, I hope it's not just my kuleana to watch the churches because they're supposed to be helping the communities. And I apologize for that remark about your friend there, Alan Barr.

Please stop. Yeah.

Okay. I was just done. Okay. Do you want me to stop now? All right. I think you guys got the message. We need to pry into them churches a little bit more, make sure we get some kind of like hotline to the mayor's office when we see things where they're detrimental to society. And nine out of 10, I'll standard disclaimer, nine out of 10 people goes to church is good, but it's hard finding the one in there. Look for the money usually.

Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none. Next testifier.

Chair, the next testifier is Sinoi Kaihui. On teams.

Morning, council Hopefully you all can hear me all right.

Yes, we can hear you.

I wasn't quite sure I would testify today, but just kind of wanted to sort of kick it off for some of the nonprofits. And just want to give my gratitude, for the $257,500 that are a line item for a shelter grant. And, you know, I I'm I'm praying that you guys make really great decisions, which I know you guys will, on where monies get spent and where monies get allocated. For myself, and I know one of the priorities for council member Johnson is that, you know, we're we're looking towards the future, not just we're gonna shelter people, but what we're looking for is places that families can go to once they transition out of shelter. So the length of stay for most families is one hundred and twenty days, but we've been seeing over the past year or two has been that families have been staying for much longer.

And don't tell DHS, but, you know, we were kinda pushing the boundaries with some of that. And, you know, we're grateful too because we don't want families to end up on the street. And so we are hoping that the county will get on board with us being able to secure houses, scattered housing sites, to be able to house our women after they leave shelter. Because the success rate of them really depends on if they can get stable housing. And so that I know has been a long term goal for myself.

It's my five year plan, kind of. And so I am hopeful that the county will come together and figure something out. I know council member Johnson, I just wanna thank you, mahalo you so much for for thinking of women helping women in this whole scheme of things. So domestic violence survivors do oftentimes get excluded from some of the funding sources in a way. And I know I've worked with some of you council members kind of one to one and helped.

You know, you guys have been advocating for survivors and getting them into safe shelter, which I'm more than happy to put people into shelter, but it's the last place that they want to be. And so I want to be sure that, you know, we can secure houses in in different on different islands. We have a we have office on Lana'i. We have one, you know, that we're county, I hope we can put one somewhere on your island because you have a lot of need there for survivors. And my hope is that, you know, we can offer that to to the county as well.

And I'm willing to work in whatever that looks like. And, before I end, I just wanna say that this week is national Crime Victim Rights Week. So if you don't know, Wednesday, we're doing a sign waving. It's going to be downstairs right from you guys. Come show up 04:30, five and we'll be there, and we can talk story more. So I'm open conversation. Thank you, folks.

Member Cook has a question, then Member Johnson.

Allah, thank you for your coming and sharing that this morning and also for your work. The

do so,

say appropriate Doctor. Any

Doctor. That would actually work long term. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Doctor. That's wonderful. Yeah. So, the proposal that we have, sort of, is we want this to just be transitional, So it's not necessarily a permanent housing solution, but we want that to be anywhere from eighteen months to two years. If you guys are familiar with the Maui Farms program, we work really closely with them, and they have a similar setup. However, they have the luxury of having these homes. But Member Cook, anything from apartments to single family homes would be absolutely appreciated. I think at this point we're just looking for places for people to be that is not on the street.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Bember Johnson.

Thank you, Sunoy. Thank you for coming out and testifying, and thank you for all that you do. I really appreciate it. You know, wanted to ask you and you mentioned a little bit in your testimony. Can you speak to the need? You said like Molokai being a need, needed area. Are there any other districts that are highly need? If you could, speak to that.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we see folks from Hana. We see folks from Kihei, lots from Lahaina. And, you know, just pretty much from every single space, every single district really, you know, needs that assistance. And trust me, like, if we could pick up every single piece of property, we we would. I think, you know, it it kinda just it's everywhere. And, the stigma behind us providing rental assistance for folks that are getting into housing is pretty astronomical depending on the landlord and what kind of, you know, things that they're thinking about when they think of a domestic violence survivor.

So I didn't know that some of the landlords won't take the folks because of the stigma. That's a new conundrum we're in. Okay. So I'm sure you could probably speak to this, but post fire, post COVID, post and with this affordability that we're all struggling with, is your institution, is your nonprofit struggling? Is there more need than you guys have capacity for? Is there just not enough rooms for these folks? Is this layering of these issues? I wonder how it's affecting you guys.

Well, I mean, you know, everybody as a shelter program, we have to adhere to those time frames, So it's ninety to one hundred and twenty days by DHS's standards. For us, we will I will I will not push somebody on the street because they're still in trauma, still in danger. And, you know, we'll we'll advocate for them to stay much longer. But the average right now, and I I think I said it prior to is, you know, one hundred and eighty days even plus. We've had somebody that we held on to for nearly a year over last year because she couldn't find safe, stable housing and not for lack of trying.

Yeah.

She she absolutely did all the things and just couldn't connect money wise, salary wise. She could not make that connection.

Huge need and very little options. Thank you so much for your response. Thank you, Chair. No further questions.

Thank you. Any questions for Sanae? Okay. No further questions, but I wanna thank you for helping when I reached out to you kinda in distress, not knowing what to do, you directed. Thank you very much for your assistance.

Alright. I'm grateful. Pass along my cell phone number to you guys only. Thank

you.

All right, guys. Take care.

Thank you. Any other testifiers?

Sure. That's all the individuals signed up to testify. If anyone in the audience or teams would like to testify, please come up to the mic and begin your testimony, or use the raise your hand function on teams and staff will unmute you. Here's a brief countdown. Three, two, one. Seeing none, chair, no one has indicated that

they wish to testify. Thank you. Members, with your permission, I'd like to close public testimony and receive written testimony. All right. Very good. So now questions for RPT. I'm going to start with two rounds of questions, three minutes for first round and then two minutes for the second round. And if members need any calculations or related information from finance, they need to get their request to staff by 9AM tomorrow, Tuesday, April 21. Thank you. So this moment I want to start off with Member Batonga and go down the row. Next would be Charlie.

Thank you, Chair. I actually don't have any questions at this time. Okay.

Very good. Charlie?

Okay. I have a few but not quite organized. One of the things that stood out for me was that that page on revenue sources. What page was that?

On page four?

Of the first or the second one?

Second one. The second one. Okay.

Anyway, I don't really need to see it, I just wanted people to have a reference. I thought that was somewhat misleading when, you mentioned that 55% of real property taxes Well, you mentioned that a large percentage of the revenue sources comes from the real property tax. Right? Okay. What percentage was that?

About 41%. 41%. Okay. I think it's important for people to know that it's much more if you don't count all the revenue sources because a lot of revenue sources are restricted. So it's not like a general like, real property is not restricted.

So it's just like a general fund. Right? Because I just want everybody to know the significance of real property taxes and what's generated there. Because if you just say revenue sources because you you're including fuel and franchise taxes, interfund transfers, charges for current services, which a lot of times have, restrictions because it's earmarked for positions and stuff like that. So when you talk about money, revenue sources and you talk about general revenue sources, that accounts for, like, what, 80%, 70%?

What do you think?

Yes, you are correct. And we we could add that actually next year or if you wanted a chart like that.

Think would be useful. I think because people might think, we have a lot of money. No. We don't. No. We can't use the fuel tax for affordable housing. You know what I'm saying? And and the rates and fees, like fees for water and people don't realize that's only for water. So if you had something like that and people could understand who's contributing to the general fund. And so that was one issue. And then the other thing and I ran out of time. Thank you. Thank you. Member Palton.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, director Martin. On the appeal statistics, I was it looks like the total is, about 2,000,000 or so less than last year. But the hotel and resort category went up. Do you know the reason the could you speculate a reason why certain ones seem to have gone up and some have gone down?

Well, I think, you know, this year, we have a lower number of appeals and the higher rate tax classifications, we get more appeals. So the hotels have consistently filed appeals the last few years and we do have our litigated claims chart in here. But I think the reason why the number of appeals went down this year is we had less TBR, SCRH appeals. And as you could see in the certification, their their values declined a bit this year. So

Okay. And then, you know, the, class count by value and council district. Do you ever do it for apartment class? Like, on page 40, you have it for non owner occupied. And then I think owner occupied, TBR, STRH, long term rental, commercialized residential. But I don't see, like, you know, agriculture, industrial,

or apartment. Is that something that you would be interested in? Maybe. Having it for each class?

I kind of just, you know, to get the full picture of the spread and all like that, at least once because it seems like it's the same ones every year, and it's good for comparison. But, like, maybe just one time, would like to see the spread and what we're dealing with. And and to go back to the other one, I just wanted to get that in before my time ran out. But the hotel re resort, the appeals that you were talking about over it's been, like, three to maybe since COVID before that were the annual appealers, the hotel hotel resort class. When I'm looking at the litigated claims, it looks like since assessment year '22, which would be fiscal twenty three.

So they kind of COVID and then the fire and stuff like that. Do the hotel resort class usually prevail on their

appeals? So appeals for the prior years are in tax appeal court and there hasn't been any movement on them. So No decision?

No. Oh. And then They haven't presented anything. Just to, if if we are to win the appeal, then it goes into, like, a general fund as, like, some sort of carryover savings or something.

So for the prior years, they're sitting in like a trusted agency account, 100% of the taxes on appeal. So yes, if they were resolved in our favor, that money would go into the revenue first to a half And

Fernandez. Thank And you, Chair, and thank you, Department, for joining us today. A lot of information to digest here, but I know this has come up before, but I'm curious about some of the exemptions. You mentioned the church is exempt, the credit union is exempt. Is it how do you do that in regards to, like, say, just for example, credit union? If the land is owned by someone else, but the credit union's renting, do they get that tax

you know, there's credit unions in like malls, for example. And they apply for the exemption. And so carve out that portion of the mall assessment and you exempt that. So in other words, the whole parcel wouldn't be exempted. If they occupied 1% of the property, they would get a 1% discount.

Who does that? The credit union does that? Because how would that benefit them? They're renting. They're not is that co I mean So

generally, the credit union files you know, with the approval from the owner.

I see.

And they work it out between them. It it might not just be a credit union. It could be the county of Maui. Sure. It could be a nonprofit. So Okay.

That makes sense. Alright. And then the the other question is, you know, I saw the churches. Everybody you know, we often hear about churches not doing that, but there are churches that are for profit. Does that make a difference? King's Cathedral is for profit church.

Well, if if they're filing, it's under the nonprofit section of of the code. So

Every time I go to King's Cathedral, they mention that we're a for profit church. So we pay taxes, so we have a say. And I for me, I'm thinking of an income tax or you know, they're saying that is different. You know, there's so many types of taxes. So for property taxes, a for profit church is exempt?

I would have to look at their application. Okay. And we can do compliance. If there's concerns, you can contact the assessment section.

Thanks for that. Thank you, Chair. No further questions.

Oh, that's very interesting. Remember, Rollins Fernandez?

Hello, Chair. Aloha, Director Martin. Mahalo for your presentation. So I was looking at, the specifics, per island, and I saw that, for non owner occupied, last or the count change is 22 less pits or counts and then two less oh, it's six. Eight.

Eight less TPR STRH classic classified properties. Two more long term rental. Sorry. My head is this way because the sheet is the opposite or sideways. What page are you on?

And then I'm on page 36 if you're looking at the PDF. But if you're looking at the page number, it's thirteen thirteen after after all the certified numbers. It's the revenue by district for Molokai. And that's there's 27 more owner occupied properties, which is really exciting for me. Like, that's really cool, which is part of the intention of, you know, designing the property tax the way, we did.

But then there was two less properties. Would you be able to explain why there's two less properties, if it was demolished or something?

So I can't say specifically, but reasons for parcel counts include dropped parcels, maybe like a consolidation or maybe someone canceled the condominium, or it could be that something was, you know, dedicated to the county. So there's a number of reasons why there's a change in parcel count. It doesn't happen too often, but there is, every year, we lose a few parcels for various reasons.

Okay. Yeah. Because even if the structure itself demolished, the land itself would still be taxed.

Yes. Another reason why the parcel count would be acquisition by government too, because it would go from taxable to non taxable.

Okay. Okay. The totals are only properties that are taxable. So this would exclude government owned properties

sure sure

to

Member Cook.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director, for being here today and this all of this work. Following up on the question about appeals to the different categories, Non owner occupied and STRs are the largest ones. So the funds, if 50% of the appeal is won by the county in the county's favor and the other 50% of appeal was in the taxpayers' favor, then that amount of taxation would show up in the next year as carryover savings?

Okay.

I'm going to ask you to refer to page 30.

Okay. Cool. Cool. It.

Okay. So, it's kind of a moving target, but the first level of appeal is Board of Review. And we try to finish our Board of Review appeals during the current fiscal year. And so if we prevail in more than 50% of the valuation on appeal, that is additional revenues. That in some cases, so after you if you lost your Board of Review appeal, you could move on to tax appeal court, right?

And then so the money would go back into the trust in agency litigated claims account And then it would be held there until the appeal is resolved, which would most likely be in the following fiscal years. And then at that point in time, it just goes into the general fund. It's additional revenue. But in that case, it's savings.

Thank you for that clarification. Is there could you give a ballpark idea of the percentage of appeals that go into that second more reviewed process?

On page 39 is the number of parcels that are in the tax appeal court.

And then the appeal funds is the value of the taxation that's pending?

Yes. Those are taxes that have been paid but are still under appeal.

Thank you for the clarification. That's all my questions for now, Chair.

Okay. Thank you. Member Woo Hajins, followed by Senetzi.

Thank you, Chair. I don't necessarily have questions on this book just yet. It's a lot of information to digest. But for our statistics friend, on page 17 where we see the net taxable values, in '19, at at twenty twenty twenty twenty. Billion dollars worth of property value?

So if spread that chart over thirty years, you could see that values go But up and we have been in a long period of stable to increasing. Over my, I guess, forty year career, this is the longest steady upward trend that I've witnessed. But as Alison knows that there are years where the values do go down.

I haven't seen that yet. And it feels like almost we're getting to the point. And this is not this is just an everything issue, but, you know, in the twenties in Germany, you needed, like, a wheelbarrow to buy cash. And you just like, it was cheaper to just burn your money than it was to, like, buy firewood. And looking at these numbers, it feels fake even, you know, considering how much money we're dealing with.

Do you foresee a downward trend anytime soon? Like, I'll give you a real life scenario yesterday or Saturday rather, where me and my husband and my friend, they're driving in Maui Uplands. And as you folks know, my husband is significantly older than me. And he was telling me when he was young and these were being built, they were being sold for, like, $40,000, and they couldn't really get rid of it. Apparently, they used to hold parties in there.

And now there's a home in there being sold for, like, $1.81200000. So my friend and I, who are classmates, were talking about how the best time for us to have bought property when we was, like, five, which I don't want for my children because that means they're already at a disadvantage being eight. So do you think we're gonna see some sort of downward trend anytime soon so that we can give people hope that eventually they can maybe own property here? My classmates and my children, and I know your daughter has one, and they had to go through all the things that they went through. So what are we looking at in the future?

Well, nobody can predict, you know, the the future. So we do lag. You know, like I said, our sales go up to June 2025. Mhmm. But just on my own street, based upon the sales that I've had Right.

It seems to be stable right now. And I remind all of you is that's why we have our tax relief program and we have circuit breaker. And also that is why our affordable housing program is so important because you are able to buy in a down market provided you aren't one of the people who've lost your job. I think it's important that we continue investing in that sector Me of our

too. Thank you so much for that. I'm curious to see what's going to happen with our national economy and if we suffer a recession and what that's going to look like for all of us.

Thank you. Thank you. Member Senecchi.

Thank you, chair and model first I is

think

projected? What is the projected difference on the actuals?

Yes, it's not very large. It was a 100 using the mayor's budget and what we have now, there is a 156,548 additional revenue. So I I would call that pretty flat. And Yeah. Just for the record, that wasn't because of any great prediction that we do. Sometimes it's high, sometimes it's low. And this year, it happened to be almost exact.

Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. And then was curious in a previous e mail did or on what page can we find the number of properties in each of the different tiers? Is that in the report?

Well, there's several different versions of that. I'm not sure if you were talking about the we have the value bands starting at page 40. But then, in summary, which is usually the chart that I refer to throughout the year would be on page three, where it shows all the classes and the number of parcels.

Okay. Thank you for that, I'll check. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. So, thank you very much. On page number 36, of, I guess, second section, real property assessment division wildfire structure estimates. Here it's very interesting because it actually shows dwelling count destroyed and how many have been rebuilt. I am looking at commercial.

Mostly everything has zero except for non owner occupied has 30 and owner occupied has 105. So can you speak about the non owner occupied rebuilt dwelling? It says

30. I I don't have, that would be parcels that don't don't have the home exemption. So, with that small number, we could come up with a list, but I don't have a list of

what properties I just they thought that's kind of interesting considering what our focus has been, I thought. And yes, commercial, residential, zero for dwelling counts. There's a lot more that we need to do. And then for upcountry, it's concerning because there's only four units that you have identified. So how do

you

get first the going able year. With to do the

we're first we're to

then Okay. So you know at what point then that you need to send them a real property tax assessment and bill and somehow that communication happens within the administration?

So we assess as of January 1. And then if so they were completed by January 1, we sent them an assessment notice on March 15. And then if for some reason they felt that that wasn't correct, they can come to us. So they had between March 15 and April 9 to confer with us. And then right now we've frozen our values for certification. But if you don't feel that your assessment is correct, it behooves you to contact our office to make sure that it's not a mistake.

Okay. Thank you. So according to this, dwelling count destroyed is 2,145. Value is $651,000,000 and it's upcountry as well as West Maui. I'll just finish this. Dwelling count is 142 which is rebuilt and value count is 91,000,000. I'm sorry. Gross assist improved value is 91,000,000. Sure. Thank you for that.

Yes. Can you clarify when they say dwelling count, it's not the same as unit count?

Real property tax. Can you answer that? I'm just reading what the chart says.

Yeah. So we're on page 36. So we did count it as a dwelling count. So if it was one parcel and had two dwellings, it would be counted as two.

So, like, Lahaina Roads reopened after initially being closed after the fire, would that count?

I don't think they were counted as destroyed, but they are part of those parcels that are back being assessed for 01/01/2026. So they're on the tax roll for this year. So they weren't destroyed, but they were, exempt because they weren't occupiable or accessible.

Okay. Like, for something like Opukaya that's rebuilding the entirety of the building, would each unit be counted under the dwelling count?

So is condominiumized. So each unit be one parcel and one building.

One parcel No. Per

Okay. I said that wrong. Okay. So be get sense what

to do.

We'll dwelling unit per CPR per TMK.

If you had an apartment that wasn't condominiumized, would that count as just one?

So apartment would be one parcel and, you know, it might be 100 units.

And so one dwelling count?

It's one building. I think if you go down down below let me see. There's the middle of the page. So for apartments, can see so the the nontaxable would be your, like, affordable. Right? So you have 10 parcels, but you have 531 units. And then taxables, 41 parcels and 70 units. So we aren't calling them dwellings. We're calling them units.

So realistically, actually, 743 units were rebuilt.

So are you referring to the

Yeah. Because what member Sugimura was saying is a 142 were rebuilt. But if you include the 601 units in the apartments that were rebuilt, then right? Or are those apartments

not rebuilt? We have any that are considered rebuilt in apartments. I think, Kupuohi is probably coming close.

Oh, but people are living in Kupuohi. 89 units completely destroyed already inhabited.

On January 1? So Well, we'll check. But again, that's nontaxable. They just pay the minimum tax. But I guess we could we don't have like that middle chart isn't the same as the chart above. So if you needed more detail in this middle chart. So maybe we can send a question.

142 seems low when I know 89 households are already moved into Kupuohi.

Oh, yeah. So that's not included in the 142, right? The apartments are in the chart below.

Yeah. I'm just saying it was made to sound like only a 142, have been completed, but at least 89 families moved into Kupuohi. And then, like, Opukaya is coming up right now. Lahaina, roads got removed into. So this data sheet wouldn't be reflective reflective of the recovery efforts. It's just, taxation purposes. It wouldn't be right to say, oh, a 142, are rebuilt. That's not accurate in totality.

Right. So Lahaina Roads isn't isn't in here. Yeah. So this wouldn't be where if you wanted those types of accounts, it would probably come from the office of recovery.

Yeah. Yeah. Just seeing, like, somebody watching from home is gonna say, oh, only a 142 units are rebuilt, but this isn't statistics on what's rebuilt and what's not. It's statistics on certain tax classifications and whatnot. There's more than a 142 families that have returned home.

Correct. Correct. Okay. Right. That's the 142 plus the 1,300.

The I we're

you. Thank Can I ask you to go to page four, the pie chart on Maui County revenue sources? So most of these I'm kind of familiar with, but I don't understand how an interfund transfer is a source of revenue or how a lapsed bond is a source of revenue for the county. Can you explain?

So this chart represents the revenues in that first page of the budget right there. So it's just showing

where money

is coming.

Percentage, yeah.

Okay. But I don't understand an interfund transfer generates revenue for the county or how a bond lapsing generates revenue for the county either. So I guess I'm just trying to understand what the sources of all of these revenue sources is because to me, that's not intuitive.

Right. Well, the the like, the this is money that's gonna be appropriated for this fiscal year. Yeah, that's the source of funds that we have to balance our budget, right? These are the appropriations.

Maybe help me understand this. Like where does interfund transfer money come from? Is it like its interfunds was within the county already. Right? We're not we're not getting money from an external source, but this is still almost 6% of, of our budget. I don't I'm I'm struggling to grasp what the source of this revenue is.

Well, I don't have that in front of me, but we we did discuss it in our revenue presentation. So we do have it. Sorry. So you can provide that in writing to us. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Can I ask staff to transmit the question?

Sure. Budget director is also on. She just turned on her video if maybe she can respond.

Budget director Milner. So we're talking about real property.

Thank Thank you, Councilmember Betungen. I'll keep it short. And I think if you want super specifics, then yes, please send the question in writing. But we need to because of the requirement for a balanced budget, we need to recognize all available estimated revenues that's going to be used for any of our expenses, operating or CIP, which includes those interfund transfers, which the majority of which you'll find under Department of Finance countywide costs. Those are the transfers from general fund to the solid waste. Well, we don't have that this year, but EP and S fund, things like that, that we need to recognize in order to be able to budget under those separate funds. Thank you, chair.

Yeah. I still don't think I understand that because moving money from one pot to another doesn't generate money. I guess I I feel like I'm still missing something. So I guess can I ask that we transmit the question in writing and maybe I can work with you guys to make sure I'm clear on what this represents? So interfund transfers and lapsed bonds. I don't understand how that's a revenue source. Thank you, chair. Okay.

Charlie and ever Poulton, you and I were talking about like in tandem. If you have questions, you know, you can take the next one. Charlie. I know you're trying to

bring us back to real property, but the part of the report were sources of funds and all these other things. So that's what we're asking on as well as real property taxes specifically. But that that's what I was concerned with, director. And I'm not sure if you would be the person to ask or Leslie Milner because when we're talking about sources of funds, in some cases, projects don't go forward for one reason or another. Yeah?

And are you notified when it is from when it is determined that a source of funding allocation is not going to be used as specified in the budget. Like for instance, just recently we found out there was over $5,000,000 set aside for earmarked for the Hagai Institute. And then at early and almost a year ago, the administration found out, no, that's not the case. It's not going to be used for that. So, for almost a year, that money is sitting there in the bank.

Are you notified or is it the budget director that's notified? Is there some kind of report that's generated on projects that are not going to go forward or expenditures that are not going to be spent? Director.

Thank you. So, you can put that question in writing and we can respond to you with the process.

Is it to you or to the budget director?

I think we all work together. So, I'd like to respond to that in Okay. Writing so I can

All right. Thank you. We'll ask our staff to do that. Thank you.

Who was next? Member Palton. I'll just go down.

Thank you. You mentioned that if we wanted the class count by value and council district of, the other categories, is that, something we can ask for in writing and get back? Not so much for, this fiscal year, but if I'm still around next fiscal year, I would love to look at that data for, you know, looking, exploring tiering options and other things.

Yes. I'm sure Eddie and his staff can get that for you next year. And if you needed it this year, you know, it's take them some time. They've been working. You know, we lost, because certification was on Sunday. We lost two days this year, so it was a little tight. But

Yeah. If if we could for next year and, whenever you can get this year's one ready, I I wouldn't mind to look at it this year and and try to, come up with some, plans for next fiscal year. But, it doesn't need to be within the June or May or whenever we're working on this budget. When you get a chance.

Again, I appreciate the, getting the question in writing so that we make sure we provide the response that you need. That something we

Tax can related, we can. Staff. So you can well, I'm going to ask you if you have any questions regarding real property tax to send it to staff so that they can compile it and send it forward to real property tax. So it's one letter going forward. Regarding real property tax, that would be due tomorrow morning at 09:00. Member Johnson. Are you done? Yes. Thank

you, Chair. Director, I want to talk a little bit about some of the tax cuts that is proposed by the administration. So, non owner occupied homes that are over $3,000,000 in value, TBR, short term rentals, 900,000 Tier one, and then Tier three, more than $3,000,000 These are all three of these categories got a tax break this year compared to last year. And that totals $12,000,000 in tax breaks for these homes that are over $3,000,000 in first we're it.

Of your but that's you that's the where I got it from. And Yes. So,

for that third tier for owner occupied, The tax rate was increased for fiscal twenty six and so we felt like because it's owner occupied and we've gotten contacted by a lot of owners that were impacted by that class. So we proposed a reduction and

Did you take into account the federal income tax breaks

think, I think, so,

it was because last you got a lot of calls and last year they got a rate higher tax rate. Is that the reason? Yes.

So I listen to people. I research their situation, and I I give it consideration. And I kinda go back to that one chart that I was, referring to. And I think this is important, so I know I'm flipping through pages, but the number of people getting circuit breaker in those top two tiers probably isn't where it needs to be, but we have worked on that with you and the new circuit breaker. So that was a consideration of trying to roll some of those people that we got calls from, and I think you all got calls from them, into the new circuit breaker program, which won't take the applications until this August.

I see.

Yeah. So that was my concern. In lowering this time were able to

I heard my time. I'll do a point information chair. It'll just be take a sentence. But mister Ray sent an email in regards to the testimony this morning in about the ranch and not cutting down the trees. And he's spoke with the ranch, they said they'd be more than happy to put that in writing for us. Just wanted to put that information out there. How you,

nice. All right. Member Rollins Fernandez.

Mahalo, Chair. Okay. I'm going to start with, I think, Budget Director. I was listening to member, Baton Gunn's question about, page four, the county revenue sources, pie chart. And, so I was curious about the answer, and I know there was a request for it to be in writing.

So for the yellow section, it says real property tax, and then the pink section, interfund transfers in this pie chart. Is the 91,300,000 in interfund transfer or a portion of it, counted twice from real property tax in the yellow section. Like, that amount counted in both pink and yellow?

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Rollins Fernandez. Yes, in a way, although as you all know, RPT becomes part of the general fund. So it's a little more complicated than that. But yes, in a way, it does appear twice similar to the way fringe kind of benefits appear twice in the budget documents where you see them under the countywide costs as well as under the specific departments. Those interfund transfers represent, as I talked about earlier, transfers to

the special funds, but they also reflect the debt service transfers back to the general fund. There's funding moving both ways. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Mahalo for that. Right. Because TAT is also general fund, that's $65,000,000 And other things that generate revenue also go into general fund and not only revolving fund. Okay. Hopefully I mean, that that's clear for me. Member, Go ahead.

Thank you, member Rollins Fernandez. I guess where I was thrown off was the presentation of the information as a pie chart because you still think of them as separate, revenue sources rather than, you know, having some sort of overlapping aspect. So I appreciate that, miss Rollins Fernandez.

Absolutely. Okay. And then oh, shoot. I did have another question, but I didn't know what it was right now. It's okay. I think I just wanted to okay. I know what it is. Okay. I also heard the the the timer, but I shared some of my time. Remember with tongue guns. So I'm gonna ask my question if that's okay. Unsolicited, by the way.

It was like having those resource at tomorrow's residency area meetings. Go ahead.

And we're all the better for it. Okay. So director Martin, you know, I I know following up with member U'U Jin's line of questioning about, you know, like, I know we we don't know. I mean, the American empire could collapse tomorrow. You know?

And then and then, you know, like, remember, Jin said, like, then the dollars would be worth less than firewood. So until that time or like well, I guess I shouldn't say it that way. But The point of my question is are the housing policies that we continue to pass to shape our housing market helping in the way that we had intended back in 2019 when we did the real property tax reform take in developing the different types of incentives such as the long term rental, tiering the classes, etcetera?

Thank you. And I would say yes. If you look at the net value ir have to to do tax that. Relief for other classes. And most importantly, I was really excited to see that long term rental class reach the level which we had strived for.

So I feel that we've been very proactive in working with our classifications, our tiers and our tax relief. And I also think the we've increased first

to

able to that. That. And values went up, we're going to get more revenue. Or the values go down, we're all going to cut. But I do feel that the administration and this body really dive in to kind of see what those pockets are. And you can use the tiers, use the classifications and use tax relief to form a comprehensive program which is good for our economy. Not only good for government, but good for our economy too.

Mahalo for that response, director Martin. And that that I think that was really important, again, as a reminder for all of us here and for the public that watches our meetings because our residents, what serves our residents is having housing that they can afford. And having housing that they can't afford, the multimillion dollar, tens of million dollars, houses help to generate revenue. But we only need so many of those to help with the revenue to offset some of, the tax relief that we provide, until certain point where it becomes out of reach. Then, you know, those houses are no longer serving our people if it's pricing our people out.

Mahalidhar. Thank you.

Okay. Just a reminder, this is point. A important think

And the very And I believe think think that you've been working with them to identify different methods and means to acknowledge and accommodate that. I was looking at the tax rates on the non owner occupied. And over the last five years, it's some of them have it's gone up like 10 times. It's gone from like 70,000 a year well, not 10 times, but it's like 350,000 a year for some properties. And I've been an advocate of that, of utilizing those funds to substitute and to subsidize our local tax base and services.

But I feel that there's I'm getting the pushback that there's a limit. And I've had conversations with colleagues about, well, there'll always be rich people and the other people will buy challenge I want to point out is a lot of the people in our community who contribute to our nonprofits besides us are the people who have been here for many, many years and really care for the community. They might not be full time residents, but they've been able that. I do do think, we're that. And And

we're

do that. Going to do for our local residents. So, Director, And how much of the appeals have you gotten from the non owner occupied aspect from our current taxation.

Well, you would be surprised. Appeals come for a variety of reasons. And you appeal values, not taxes. So I will put that out there. And like I said, this year we experienced a reduction in the number of appeals and that probably has a lot to do with more stable values year over year.

Thank for that. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Member Ohajans followed by Senensi.

Thank you, Chair. For right now, I have no further questions.

Okay. Thank you. Member Senensi.

Thank you, Chair. Member Cook asked my question on the Tier three non owner occupied. Thank you.

Thank you. So you're done. Be answer. To the right if you could submit those questions. Answer. And if you had questions that are like finance department related, then you're going to have to talk to the finance department individually if your answer was not answered. Is that correct?

Staff would just add that as part of that members are also asked to submit any requests they have already for finance relating to valuation information they need for tiering. So if they have any tiers that they're already kind of considering as the committee looks at decision making on real property taxes later this week and they need information on what values are associated with those tiers, we'd be able to provide that to the Department of Finance already during this first round.

Any questions? Member Palton. Shoot. I think when we were doing the range of rates, that's what I submitted the tiering information.

Okay. At the deadline. Is that what you're saying? You already did it.

I already did it. I guess I misinterpreted what the range of rates was, and I was submitting tiering information, which, I mean, I got no problem with the range of rates all you guys submitted. But can you take my range of rates information, and that's my tiering information.

Okay. Do you have it? You have it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

Chair. I also sub I also submitted not specifics, but just what my, intentions were.

You got it.

Did they receive it? So, Chair, we'll take a look at those, responses that we got from members in and Palton earlier this month and review.

Okay. Thank you.

All right, members. So we are done with RPT. Thank you very much. So submit whatever you want tomorrow. Thank you very much, Director, for being here. And could you introduce your associate again? I'm sorry.

Again, this is Eddie Manzano and he is our property technical

we're

opportunity And because they had two less days. So it's they just do a really great job and I really appreciate all of this that they put together for us. So thank you Eddie and property technical staff.

And Carrie, right? And Carrie. Carrie is on that location.

Otherwise she would be here.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you very much for being here. So appreciate you and I'm sure you'll be hearing from the members for such an important department. At this time then members, it is now 11:00. You want to take a break before lunch? Okay. We'll come back at 11:10. It is 11:42.

Welcome back to the Budget Finance Economic Development Committee. Sorry for the delay. We were Xeroxing or we were making copies of the priorities and other documents. So at this time, the staff will distribute the priority amendment matrix and the duplicate priorities have been highlighted for your reference. And before lunch, I'd like to confirm the number of priorities permitted for each member.

Each member was asked to submit up to two residency area proposals, up to three countywide proposals, and up to two revolving fund conditions and up to two grant conditions as well as any possible alternatives. So the majority of the members did not submit any alternates. We do have several duplicate proposals and that may be an opportunity to include the alternate proposals submitted by two members. I

was going to put in about the priority top locations for EMA. And, administrator Lonokalua, he did say he turned it in on Thursday, but we never received it. Oh, his response. Yeah. So that was my alternate, but we never received it over the weekend. I did text him that, like, you know, unfortunately never received it because I wanted to put that as my priority. So that's my alternate for the Maui mediation with Kauai.

Okay. So, yeah, we still are missing responses. So it must be one of those. Maybe we can pray that it comes soon. So anybody have any thoughts? I guess we were having a discussion about this. Any thoughts members? We're fine? Okay. You just gotta read it.

Okay. Once the That was my alternate, the clearing of high risk priorities. I did mention it when administrator Lonon Kailua Hewitt was here, but I just didn't have the data to include because we never got EMA three back. Okay.

Yes. Chair, so are you asking for discussion on the number and Yeah. You you Okay. So I just got the package. I just followed the template, but have not been able to read through what other members submitted. Did anybody submit more than what the template provided for? Do we have to vote to limit the number of proposals that people are putting forth?

I wanted to just put it out there in case anybody wanted to talk about it. You're good. You're good. Okay. So now we have Member Palton's going to submit an alternative, right?

As soon as I am able to

read the EMA3. Okay. We haven't received their response their response yet. Okay. Very good. So I asked also the staff also created a separate spreadsheet that has

has the date that we're anticipating. The committee will discuss the items. And it has a crosswalk of the page.

Just for the priorities, the duplicate priorities. I apologize. Thank you.

So we did assess and review all of the priorities submitted and the team identified that there were some overlapping priorities. And with those, we created a there are, I think, three or four. And so we created a summary of those so the members can discuss and decide who will keep the priority and who will then find a substitute for that priority.

Okay. You have it, members. It's the duplicate or overlapping priorities. And it says who the council member is, budget bill, page number, proposal, and overlapping from. So that information and if you have a duplicate then during lunch you can talk to the other member and figure out who's going to keep it and who's going to maybe find another one. The other spreadsheet that you just got is called fiscal year twenty seven decisions week department crosswalk. Kate, now you can explain it.

Okay. Thank you. Now I'm catching up with myself. And that is just summary of the anticipated date of discussion and then provides the department and then the applicable page numbers that you can find in the budget bill and as well as the appendices. And the hope is that this will facilitate the conversation and help the members.

Yes, good job.

Yes, this is very helpful. I appreciate it.

Very, very helpful. And if you notice on the last column, if there's an asterisk, it's saying that we have not received a response from that department. So there are still POCOs that we are hoping to get but if not, we'll make decisions as best as we can because I know that's what we'll do. Yeah, helpful, yeah. Okay, next.

And then the next is one.

The magical priorities listing that it's about 33 pages long. It was distributed to the members. The team is working on providing an 11 by 17 format so that printed it can be easier for the members to read. But that's a list of all the priorities and the duplicates are overlapping or duplicates are highlighted in yellow.

Okay. Got it, members? So it's pretty hard to read. It's 8.5 by 11, but staff is they are going to be putting it in eleven by fourteen, seventeen. And when?

Thank you, Chair. We're attempting to get that done before you go to break, please feel free to talk lots.

Member Woo Jin.

Thank you, Chair. And thank you so much for these. These are really helpful. For the duplicate priorities, I understand. Do we because obviously we didn't have a chance to look at this now, but over lunch, we should probably consider. Do we have duplicate areas of cuts that maybe we need to then figure out if we're gonna this project is maybe not gonna go through or figure out where we can cut from other places for the offsets? Do we have duplicate offsets?

So members were submitting their priorities with the offsets. Go ahead.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, member. Yes, there were duplicate offsets. We did not provide a summary of those.

That's fine. I mean, we have the opportunity to go through them during lunch and then I guess we can figure out during decisions week how we're going to manage those offsets.

Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks.

Shirley, you have a question? You look like Hungry. Oh, You're hungry. Okay. All right. Members, excellent. Thank you. I really appreciate this crosswalk. So just for your information, if you have a duplicate with another member, you can figure out and talk to each other. One person can give it up and come up with another one to substitute it.

But you need to also share your decision in public because of sunshine. But we do have to make that decision so that we can complete this. The other thing is for your information, the reason why this crosswalk is really important is because we will be taking up when we call up Bill 55, which is legislative branch first, so county clerk, OCS, auditor, whatever, is going be in that order for legislative branch. And then we're going go to all the departments. I want to end today with DEM if we can get that far is my goal.

I would love to get further than that if we can because time is of the essence. But this crosswalk is going to help you just look at where things are in Bill 55 and what is in Bill 55 that's relevant to the department. When we open up, I'm going to be taking up the department, any priorities that were there from any of the members, and then go into Bill 55 and what's in Bill 55 and operations CIP, whatever is relevant to the department. And then we'll get a consensus if we can and then move to the next department. So that's my goal.

And I would love to get all the way to Department of Environmental Management, which probably has the most sections in it as we know, right, with wastewater, sewer, everything. So that is what we have planned for today. I'm not saying we're going to cut it. I'm just saying those are the divisions. Okay. Any questions? Member Batongan.

Sorry. I just want to make sure I'm clear. So look to to

the that we're

not think

to to

And able pretty so we're much the only things that we're going considering are in the big matrix of members' priorities with the exception of the alternate that Member Palton is still waiting on from emergency management.

Yes.

Okay.

And relative to our decisions, I just want to thank all of you. I know last week some of you never saw your children because we were at the residency area meetings. It was push to adjust to the Kona low storm weather, so thank you very much. Everybody was doing things and we heard what the residents were saying. So appreciate that for all the people that came.

Now we have the decisions week of what we're doing and really the hard job is before us. We got to take a deep dive, put the priority of the community and their needs. Then let's figure out how much of all the things that the administration submitted that they can actually do. Because as we know, this is a fat budget, right? 174,000,000 in carryover savings.

That says a message to you about there is fat in the budget. There is fat in EPs. They want to hire 91 more and we have this 500 vacancy. There's so many stories that we have all learned. But in addition, the depth of what we're trying to do is hear the voices of the community, provide our services as is our responsibility. That is it. I'm going to take a recess. Go ahead.

I'm still trying to make sure I'm clear on what we should be expecting. So good to we're question. To And to do have offsets that. That. That impact most departments.

Okay. Interesting. I have broad cuts too.

I just want to make sure I know when to speak on the matters.

Yeah. I think I'm understanding what you're saying. So I'm gonna talk to you during recess so I can get it correct. Shirley.

Are we doing this exercise to get their permission? No. Whose permission? The department. Department's permission.

Oh. You know, members, I think whatever you put in your priority or condition, I think you spoke to the department. Is that what you're asking? To see if they can do it?

No. I yeah. I mean, you know, people have their own way of handling things. Okay. And since we all know for a fact there's fat in every department, I I and every time I ask people about their priorities, directors, they never tell you. Everything is a priority. So you have to try your own conclusions. Yeah. Yeah? Okay. Thanks.

Yeah. Correct. That's why the responses are important. But if we don't get it, it's your show gang. All right, any more questions? I'm gonna take lunch to it's 11:55. Can we come back at 01:30? Is that enough time for you to look at your

Member Senensi is trying to get your attention.

Oh, sorry. Oh, you have so much light behind you. I can't see you. Go ahead. Angel. No. He said you're an angel.

Did we decide how many priorities are countywide yet? So

I will I what? I will read the list. Two residency I got the list. Okay.

I got the list,

but I

was wondering county if we could wide. Increase. Three county wide, two revolving fund conditions, up to two grant conditions. You went blank. Member Senecchi.

Oh. Oh. Can you hear me?

I can hear you, but I can't see you.

Yes. Sorry. Oh, and just for sunshine, we have Mavis Medeiros in the office as well.

Okay. Thank you.

Doctor. My question was, I have some duplicates, but I did not include the replacement in my alternative.

I'm not sure what you mean because you didn't know you had a duplicate.

Yeah. I have a duplicate that other members will take up, I did for my replacement, I didn't put listed as an alternative. Oh, it's And something I still propose.

So something would be brand new at this point, which means you don't meet the deadline. Is that what you Yeah. You don't have like priority?

I do, but but it looks like I had a had a a eleventh hour request.

Can can throw

himself at our mercy.

Oh, Charlie said you can throw yourself at our mercy, which means we can vote you up And a point. In think to look at all of the priorities. You want to come

back later? I have a HSAC meeting in three minutes.

Okay. So when can you come back?

When it's finished. I'll I'll hurry them along. After all, madam president. You know?

Oh. Oh. Okay. So 01:30? 01:45? Just said

it got canceled, so no need.

Oh. Yay. Oh. 01:30. Is 01:30 good, everybody? Okay. This meeting is now in recess. At 01:30, we'll come back. K. Welcome back, everybody. Budget finance economic Development Committee is now 01:40 p. M. Okay, great. I can hear the buzz in the chamber. That means everybody's had time to have a great lunch and look at our priorities.

So everyone has a chance to review the priority matrix and you all got the 11 by 17 version. So we want to take up duplicate priorities. There are currently eight priorities that overlap. They involve Maui Mediation Service, Street Medicine Project Vision and Kahumanu Church. Staff had highlighted them in the matrix for each duplicate priority that affected members, decide who will keep the priority and who will submit a replacement or substitute priority.

Substitute proposals are allowed for duplicates only. Replacements or substitute proposals for the happy first turn matrix that has the duplicates. Oops, here it is. Mine was Kahumano Church and I will say that I'm not going to be submitting a replacement. So who also had Kahumanu Church is Tom Cook as well as Keani Rollins Fernandez. Between the two of

you Member Rollins Fernandez.

Right. I'm willing to keep it. That's what I was planning. So depends on what you my colleagues want to do.

Okay. Did you ask member Rollins Fernandez?

Member Rollins Fernandez?

I keep it? Apollo member member Cook. K.

Is that okay with you, chair?

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you. All of you okay, members?

So member Cook is gonna purchase the Cove Park parcel, and you're keeping Kahumanu?

Or how what? It's interesting. Nobody's talking about Cove Park. So this is only the duplicate for Kahumanu Church.

So both of you guys are going to do Kahumanu Church?

No. So I'm not going submit another

priority. And he's gonna keep Cajuan.

He's gonna keep and member Ron Fernandez said she's fine with that.

I submitted, like, five.

Okay. So, Tom. You have that.

Nobody's going to do Cove Park then? No. Well, that's not what we're talking about.

Next we have Maui Mediation Services which is Member Palton and Member Batangan.

Thank you, Chair. So I did submit alternate priorities, one of which was Boy Scouts. So if I'm allowed to take this off of my palette, I would like to then insert one of my alternates.

Are you fine, Member Palton? Okay. So we're going to give this one to Member Palton, correct? You're fine. Okay. All right. And the last one is for Street medicine project vision and is member Palton, Charlie, and Senensi. Okay. So gonna be

member Senensi is gonna keep that and then Charlie is gonna submit, anti Neti Lahaina resource and, recovery, as her countywide. Did you write that? I'm going to, submit the EMA top two, wildfire risks. K.

So in order to make these changes happen for what you're saying and for cheerleader and member Batangan, you need to submit that in writing to OCS staff.

Okay. So if I had already submitted it as an alternate Okay. In my spreadsheet, do you still need me to do something? Like, do I need to identify

I guess I should ask them. What do you

Okay, staff. Yeah. Staff, what would you like from us?

If we already have it, if you could just be clear on which one it was and we can identify it. If we have any questions, we'll follow-up with you.

Okay.

So you said you need it two and a half hours after this meeting is Paul? Two hours. Two hours after this meeting is Paul?

Mhmm. And Shirley. Okay.

Member Palton is, correct except I'm adding money to that. I'm adding to $1.88 5. I'm adding 61,500. You want to know where I'm going to

get it from? Where are getting it from? Okay.

From the office of the mayor, economic development program. Do I have to specify the

Is makahi clear enough for you guys?

Yeah. It's kind of general. Makahiki season.

Because, auntie Nettie's one is 250,000. That's why she's adding 61,000. Oh, see what she's saying.

Did you did you get that?

Cheryl, I'm not sure if we received that one in writing. So if we could have it in writing, that would help us. Thank you.

Yeah. We just did it. Okay. Thanks.

You got two hours after this.

And member synency's one was a grant condition. That's why. So he's just conditioning what he he's conditioning. So member is gonna keep it as original. Okay. Charlie is gonna do with the extra money offset as she stated, And I'm gonna, submit my proposal two hours after, and it's for the top two, EMA wildfire risk deduction.

K. Staff. And then for me, it's gonna be the the Boy Scout, Camaleo. Thank

you. Okay. All of you are fine, right? So Charity, you got to write it up. Yes. Okay. Very good. So now we've got duplicate overlapping duplicate priorities done. So Member Palton, Member Sorensen, and Member Cook, as was discussed. Yeah. Member Go Rollins

ahead. I don't I just need clarification. I don't see a duplicate of Boy Scouts. Is the Boy Scout thing an alternate?

Yes, Member Rollins Fernandez. That was one of my alternates. So I'm just letting staff know

that it's not on the list? Mm-mm.

No, because my understanding is that the list was only the priorities. The the alternate proposals were not included.

Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't not finding it. Okay. Very good. Go

Yes. No. Go ahead.

Chair, we were just wondering if Member Rollins Fernandez wanted to tell us which one of her alternates she'd like to substitute for the Kalamano Church?

I think I put them in order of priority.

Okay. If we have any questions, we'll reach out

to you. Thank you. Sounds good. Okay.

Plus, she

had five, right? More than she's supposed to.

I might have been exaggerating. Okay. One It might have been, like, four and a half.