City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Okay.

Welcome everyone today is September 9th, 2026. The 17th meeting of the 27th Council will come to order. All counselors are present this evening with Council person joining us via zoom. We are now on to a moment of silence, followed by the pledge. Please join us in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I'm like, whoever was joining in Spanish, thank you, because we're trying to get better at that. So thank you so much. Okay. Vice President Champagne.

Where's Councilor Bassan when we need her? She's strong on that. Okay. Civic parking passes are provided for members of the public. You can obtain your parking pass from the council staff at the table near the rear chamber's entrance. Members of the public, city staff, and the media have the ability to view this meeting in person on live streams through four different platforms, GovTV on Comcast Channel 16, the GovTV website, YouTube and Zoom webinar. The live streams can be accessed from most smartphones, tablets and computers. Also, this meeting is closed captioned and you may enable the closed captioning services on your television or device at this time. The recording of this and all past Council meetings will remain available for viewing at any time on the City Council's website. Council staff is available via telephone if members of the public need assistance finding the videos online. Please call 505-768-3100 for assistance during business hours Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. This council will take a break at approximately 7 p.m. this evening, if needed. With regard to decorum in the chambers, we want tonight's proceedings to be as civil and respectful as possible. So please do not make any personal attacks and please no applauding, snapping or other outbursts during the meeting. The president will provide one warning to anyone causing a disruption. Upon a second or continued disruption, that individual will be asked to leave the chambers and, if necessary, security will be asked to escort that person out of the chambers. Such removal from the city council chambers will be effective for the remainder of the meeting. If continued disruptions occur, the president may recess the meeting until order is restored, and if necessary, may clear the chambers of persons participating in that disturbance. This meeting will go a lot smoother if we are respectful of one another. Council staff has received over 50 public comments, signups for tonight's meeting. So pursuant to the council rules, public comment will be reduced from two minutes to one minute. So please allow to allow everybody to speak. So please begin editing your comments to fit within the new one minute time frame. Councilors, we have any I love your smile. Do we have any questions and answers for the administration? Councillor Rogers, Councillor Fiebel-Curran, Councillor Grau.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. And I do have a couple of questions for the admin. I would like to speak with Chief Jaramillo, if that's possible, from AFR. Awesome. Thank you, Chief. I just wanted to talk about the construction for House 11 and the bunks. When are those going to start? When is the construction going to start?

Madam President, Councilor Rogers, thanks for the question. I wasn't prepared with the date because I didn't know this question was coming, but I do have it in my email, so if you give me a second. We did get a groundbreaking date from our... contractor. I just need to look it up.

Perfect. That would be great. And while you're doing that, I'll just give some context to the public watching. When I first came into office, fire service is extremely near and dear to my heart. My grandfather was a state fire marshal, and so I don't play around life safety, work conditions, or their living quarters. I had just toured the Westside Shelter and then went to Station 11 and I was sad to see that their bunks looked a lot like the Westside Shelter. And then the busiest station, one of the busiest stations in this whole entire region, I of course was advocating that we get those fixed so I'm excited for our firefighters to have better living quarters.

Yes. Council President and Council Rogers, Director Turner did confirm that she did send the email over that the groundbreaking date is on the 28th and I'm glad that you mentioned that because it was also one of my priorities when I first started as Chief. One of our first capital asks was the bunk room remodels and we've run into a lot of construction issues with specifically Station 11 so we're really excited. We just moved

some money over from fire funds to complete the funding for that project and so that was the last little bit that we needed to get it going so yes the 28th it will be starting wonderful and this is one of my priorities to support your candidacy for chief because it's not okay that our firefighters are in the busiest house go and save amazing lives and come back to living quarters the way that they've been living and so i'm excited that it's a priority for you too because It's not okay that they were living like this for a long time before I came around. And so September 28th, and how long will the construction take?

Madam President, Councillor Rogers, I don't know the length of that project, but those are very helpful questions that I can always bring the information to the meeting if I have it in advance. So I can get that information for you. It's a pretty robust project. We're expanding out the bunk rooms. which is a pretty big renovation, which is why the cost was so high for that project. So I believe it was somewhere around eight months, but I want to get you the exact date, and I don't have that in front of me right now.

Okay, that would be great, and I'm doing this publicly because I want my firefighters to know, our firefighters to know that this is happening, because I still get questions about it. So I'm grateful. Thank you. I'll be happy to get the date of how long it will take to be there.

Madam President, Council Rogers, we did communicate all of that information out through our battalion chiefs as well. So they should have that information from the department as well.

Great.

Thank you.

All right. Next up, Mr. Vice President, if I can move on to the other departments, let's do HHH and have some questions about some of the funding for our vouchers and some questions about gateway. Our gateway network.

So it could be any of the gateways.

And while you're coming down, Director Ramirez, just start my line of questioning for the gateway system. Across the whole gateway system, do we have it documented each provider's policy for removal or what I'm hearing the term banning clients from our shelters? Do we know what those policies are for every provider that provides services at our gateway network?

Madam President and Council Rogers, I believe, yes, all of them are required to submit that to them. I don't have them offhand in regards to them, but when they contract with us, they are required to provide us with what that criteria is and how it's used across each different program.

Wonderful. Is it possible to have each of the providers' policies sent to Council? I'd just like to review the policies on what would cause somebody to get banned indefinitely from the gateway network. And is there a, are you aware of a banning policy for all the gateway networks? So if they get banned at one, that means they're banned at all the gateways?

Madam President, Councillor Rogers, I don't know if it's bad across depending on which one in the type of incident like we have had stab wounds, things like that. So if it's a violent offense, it could be across them all. But I would say because we do have a few contractors that run two of our provider services. But typically it should be from that entity with considerations for the others that are separate.

Perfect.

But I will get you the policies.

Okay, thank you. My other question was around our bed tracker. So we were looking at our bed tracker for beds with some folks to try to access some beds and some help. And when I went to that bed tracker, I noticed a couple of things. Some of the providers, when you click on them, you can tell what their referral process is. You know what their exclusions are. You know what the requirements are for clients. but that's only one or two providers on our bed tracker. Is it possible to add that for all of the providers that are on our bed tracker? Because I was working with some case managers and they were looking for placements and trying to help people get placements in my district, and we were using that to try to see where are available beds, but some of the information was there for some providers, others was blank where it didn't tell us is this a referral, can they walk in, What are their hours? I just think it'd be a better tool for our case managers if that information was listed there.

Madam President, Council Rogers, so we do have a link that has all the forms to make a referral into the programs that are referral-based. Any entity that's not would be probably specific like our first responder drop-off that's only for first responders, et cetera. But I'm happy to, one, share that link for you as well. It's where all providers and it's public where you can go in and make a referral to navigation,

I see that here, but the issue is I'm just thinking of I'm in the field with the case managers. This has happened. I'm in the field. We're like, let's get this person wants help. Let's get them some help. We go to the bed tracker. Let's see. First of all, you have to click on every single one to see if they have available bed instead of being able to look at the whole list and just who has a bed. You have to click on every single one, which is hard when you're in the field quickly trying to get someone to help. And I look at Gateway Family, for instance. I clicked on Gateway Family. And I'm sorry I didn't send this to Mr. Cornelius or we'd show everybody. But Gateway Family, it just says the date, 9-8, 197 people, occupied rooms 59, available rooms 13. That's it. Oh, you do have a Garrett? Garrett's the man. Let's pull that up. Because this is important, guys. If we are trying to navigate the system for folks who are already in survival mode, already we're expecting them to come to this website to find out where to get help, it's not feasible. Let's go to Gateway Family. If you click right there on Gateway Family, bam, that's what you see. It doesn't tell me what their hours are, how do I get in touch with them, what is their referral process? I don't know. Let's go back, Garrett, to I think the one that I noticed did have one. I think you have to click on the tab on the left because you can't hit back. That's another weird thing. You can't go back. First responder receiving, nope, nothing there. Let's go back to the other one. I feel like I saw it on maybe men's or women's. Nope, nothing there either. Let's go back. Medical respite, maybe? No, nothing there. Let's try again. Gateway West? No, we're ratting 1,000 here. Okay, maybe women's. Let's see, maybe that's the one I saw, nope. Sorry, I couldn't remember. There was one that had, it was awesome. It had all the information right there, what you needed to do for a referral, all right there. This is not, I mean, it's great to know that they have 13 beds, but I don't know how to access those beds. If I'm in the field trying to help somebody, I'm not able to access that. Oh, there it is. The Recovery Gateway Baccas District. There it is. Capacity. I know exactly where their address is. I know if pets are allowed. Are you required to be sober? Is there a wait list? Where do I send my referrals? What are the other requirements? Can we get this for every single tab? On the bed tracker?

Madam President, Councilor Rogers, yes, and there's a separate link for the referrals, so I'll share that as well, but I see what you're talking about. Integration, for more information on this. This is relatively new, just to report out bed occupancy and usage, but there's always ways to improve both so that you have that link.

No, this is great. That's why we're going through this exercise, because I was in the field, and this would be great to be able to just go to that list, but not have to click on all of them, just be able to run down and quickly get the help that we need for somebody. Last question for HHH. We received an update on the dashboard for our motel vouchers and all of our vouchers through the task force that Councillor Grout and I have been working on together. And we got an update that is now updated for FY26, so we know what the spend down is. And I want just to double check that what's on the dashboard is what's available from FY26 that was reverted. So I just wanna make sure of that. On the dashboard it has, for each line item, an amount that has been reverted. I want to see if those if those are per Charlie's email They are updated and that should be what we are reverting from FY 26. I

Madam President, Council Rogers, I believe, yeah, it's similar to what was provided in the objectives, but all the spend out hadn't been there. So I think those align. I haven't looked at the dashboard in this, but I am aware of the reverted amounts for the end of the year and what is listed. So without looking at the dashboard, I can only look at what I have that we provided to you for the objectives for the end of the year.

You have that too, Garrett? No, that's OK. That's OK. I'm going to help us move on with our meeting. But yes, I just want verification that those dollar amounts that are on the dashboard is what was reverted from FY26, which means it's over $1 million that we may be able to reallocate. So just want to make sure.

Madam President, Councilor Rodgers, yes, and I believe by resolution it reverts to the account for reappropriation.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Vice President.

Councilor Feeblecorn.

Thank you, Mr. Vice president. Um, I had a couple of questions for our wildlife biologists and I think Dr. Domenna is here, although I can't see. Um, but if he is, please come up. Um, I want to start by saying that, you know, several weeks ago, um, I got a lot of phone calls and I want to thank every single person in the community that called, texted, found me on Facebook and all kinds of other ways, um, to tell me that there was something going on. that impacted animals i know i'm the animal rights counselor but i really appreciate when folks let me know that there are things happening we got a call that there were at the time we were being told it was city crews that were you know basically just killing some animals out on the west side at a retention pond and i want to thank mr whalen with the administration for taking my call and finding out first of all that it was not city of Albuquerque cruise. I just want to clarify that because there's still a lot of misinformation out there. But as soon as we found out that it was a MAFCA cruise and that the plan was to just dump dirt over an existing I'll just say a pool of toxic sludge is what it looked like. But there were animals in that pool of toxic sludge, including turtles and fish and frogs and a beaver had gone down to find some water. And so I just appreciated that immediately, as soon as we found out that this was happening, our city's wildlife biologists headed out, several people from our open space division headed out, stopped this very, very poorly planned extermination of animals. And I just wanted to ask Dr. Domenna, can you just give us an overview of what was happening and what our staff was able to do in terms of relocating and saving those animals?

Definitely. Madam President, Councilor Febecorn, yes, we got the same slew of calls coming in and had to kind of get our bearings on that as well. But we did send our wildlife biologists. I have our two folks from urban biology. If they are behind me, Nick Peterson, who manages the division, and Dr. Virginia Thompson, who is also in wildlife biology for us, did most of the mud work on that and backbreaking and slugging around in the mud. Once we found out what was going on, we stepped in to go out and try to pull as many animals out of the pit as we could. That pit exists. It's an IMAFCA piece of property to catch runoff water and trash that's collected in it and anything that's toxic in it. So it was intended just to kind of hold water and collect all of the kinds of stuff that showed up in the pictures that you saw, anything that's flowing downstream. Because of the dry conditions and the river itself that used to hold water in the bosque, a lot of the animals that depend on that water had congregated in a very small spot. So there was some water that was being held there. We had no idea just how intense the life concentration was going to be. But over the course of a couple of days, they pulled out something like 60, 65 snapping turtles out of that area. Um, some, some number of bullfrogs, most of those were kind of let go close. So we didn't keep count of them, but the turtles were all relocated to other. Ponds that the city owns that we knew that they would be able to and have it safely. There was a beaver on site, the New Mexico game and fish, the game warden came down and took a look at that. And there didn't seem to be any immediate danger to it. It was probably making some use of the water. It had a den on site. But that's something that's going on throughout the Bosque this year as well. There are a lot of beavers that are counting on water to be there. And we're seeing a lot of movement amongst them and probably higher levels of predation and things like that as well. So essentially, just a very quick kind of Band-Aid fix to the situation that was provided there. But we feel very confident because of the way the work that was done that we got pretty much anything living out of that site before they finished it up.

thank you I just and I want to thank the folks behind you Nick and didn't catch the other name but I was Bridget thank you so much and I know there were folks from open space there as well you know I'm just always proud of city staff when there's a problem that was not our doing this is not city property this was not city plan this was a MAFCA and a very poorly I won't even say plan, just a poor project. But you guys all stepped in, you saved as many animals as you possibly could. I know you were out there for three days in what looked like toxic sludge. And so just wanted to thank you all publicly for stepping in, doing the right thing, helping out those animals and making sure that this did not turn into what it could have been, which would have been a mass extermination of many, many animals. So thank you all so much.

Madam President, Councilor, you're welcome. We're happy to help.

Councilor Grout.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. My questions are for General Services Department Director William Duran. Good evening, Director. I did send these questions to you so you had an opportunity to get all the information that I've asked for, so thank you.

Madam President, I hope so, Councillor Graves.

I bet you did. About how many buildings house city departments and personnel?

So I can't, Madam President and Councillor Graut, I can't give you an exact number of how many. GSD's only responsible for a portion of that. I know that we do have approximately 800 structures, but those are buildings or structures that also do not house personnel. For GSD, we have 247 buildings. 186 of those house personnel. And those are for AFR, APD, obviously GSD, animal control, environmental, solid waste, senior affairs, DMD, and ACS. And then we also have a couple of buildings for arts and culture and for parks and rec.

Okay, thank you. Who is responsible for maintaining those buildings? Is it the departments or... General Services.

Madam President, Councilor Graut, for the buildings that fall under our purview, GSDs, we are, the GSD facilities are, if it's buildings that are outside, then it's the individual departments that are responsible for those buildings.

Would you mind sending me a list of the ones that are under you specifically, if you would just reply to the email, thank you. Does the city have a strategic plan for proactively maintaining systems like HVAC

So, Madam President, Councilor Grout, so we, up until about a year ago, we did not have a strategic plan or a preventive maintenance schedule. Our new facilities official, Kristen Gardner, who took ill and couldn't be here tonight, we started preparing a one-year, three-year, and a five-year preventive maintenance plan, and that is just for the systems, the building itself, the envelope, the systems like heating, cooling, electrical that are part of the building. It does not include appliances, it does not include specialty equipment, it doesn't include department specific equipment or landscape.

Do we just wait until they fail and then we act reactively instead?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, so under the new plan that we're almost done with, what we're doing is we are labeling all the systems, all the equipment, we're putting it into a tracking system that will track warranty information, replacement information, repair information, and then the likely end of life timeframe for that piece of equipment. That will then go into the one-year, three-year, or five-year plan, and then we can meet with those departments and figure out what is the best avenue to take. The goal is to have a robust preventative maintenance plan so that in three years, I know that senior affairs is going to have to have something in place like a chiller or a boiler, and then we can prepare them that in three years, we may have to get some money for this.

I like that plan. I think that's very smart. I know recently the Manzano Mesa... multi-gen center that HVAC failed. I know that the International Library HVAC failed, and I don't want that to happen to our fire departments. You know, that's important that they have, that I know they're running 24-7. They're always housed with somebody, and it's important that they are taken care of well. So I will look forward to seeing that list when you get it.

Madam President and Councilor Grau, we'll share that plan once we get it implemented and the needs assessment done for those plans. We'll share that.

Do you know when we might see that?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, so we started this when I became the director. Kristen Gardner and I started working on it. It's taking us a little longer because some of these buildings are old. We're already hitting the end of life cycle, as you already mentioned, Mesa. And they've already, that HVA system has been replaced. I don't know if you were told that or not. So it's going to take a little bit longer than we thought, but we're hoping to have it done within the next month or so.

That would be great.

Yeah. I'll look forward to that.

Thank you. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Brown.

Councillor Barker. Thank you, Mr. Vice-Chair. I've got a few questions for Chief Barker. Thank you, Chief. I know it's been a little bit of the past couple weeks have been a little bit wild downtown, so to speak. So I just want to touch on a few of those and ask some questions. I know, first off, Mr. Travis Kimbrough passed away on 2nd Street, victim of gun violence. So my condolences to, I don't know who his family are. And I didn't know him, unfortunately. I do know a lot of the unhoused folks downtown, but him I didn't know, so... In this case, kudos to APD for catching the individual who killed him, essentially. More gun violence downtown. I would ask, I haven't gotten an update on the shootings downtown in a bit. I know we've probably had three or four since the last time I got on. So if I could get that, you know, gun violence downtown continues to increase. We're now, I think that puts us at 56, 57 in the last two and a half years. How that statement right there is a full stop for people, no matter where you come from, just boggles my mind. It would become that complacent. with shootings in Albuquerque. But it kills me. So terrible tragedy. Kudos to APD on that one. I want to talk a little bit on the John Brown Breath Kists Club. Got a lot of reports from advocates that APD was harassing. I don't know if that's true. APD did reach out to me and gave me their version. that there's a much bigger crowd than usual streets were blocked there weren't any permits for blocking the streets kudos to uh council rogers for reaching out to folks to help out kind of organize and make sure people work together on those things i do know the community downtown which is residents businesses have long been unhappy with the john brown folks for not cleaning up for not being organized for for just dropping in and Per the community creating problems and not wanting to take it to somewhere else. And I have other folks say, you know, we're not, you know, by going there, they're not going to get services. I don't know if that's true or not. So there's some of that there. The third thing, though, a little bit more personal for me. This past weekend, an individual was ringing all the doorbells where I live. I looked out the front window, and a gentleman was having a behavioral health manic episode, it looked like. He also was waving what appeared to be a handgun. It was about 10.30 at night. My son was sitting right at the window, so essentially less than 10 feet away from this individual playing video games. So as a parent, a very visceral reaction. Also didn't want to escalate the situation and have shots be fired, especially with my children right there. Simultaneously, you know, while my instinct and I think is the correct thing to do is call APD and ACS, I also know how that could end in tragedy for the individual. And so it's a very difficult, okay, I need to call this in. I don't want this individual to be hurt. APD did show up with it very quickly. So kudos on that. And the individual, they worked with him. Turned out to be a toy gun, thankfully. And it wasn't mistaken as a real gun. And so the APD in this case was fantastic. Individuals ringing doorbells the next morning. And again, two days ago. But at least, you know, I mean, it's that idea of these are complex situations. You know, we don't know when someone's going to be murdered, which just happened literally two blocks from here, or when it is a toy gun and people need to handle that appropriately, even though it's a very serious situation, right? You can't take that. When you have that many shootings downtown, you can't take any of those lightly. so kudos to apd on a few of these situations the breakfast i don't have all the details on that um you know had i been in town i probably would have walked over to see what was happening i just i was out of town but i i'm glad that council rogers worked with some folks and and they organize better and apd work with folks and things were cleaned up and things were taken care of i think it's us all this speaks to the broader issue of what's happening in our community the number of unhoused continues to increase we're not getting the services out a lot of folks aren't taking advantage of those services i mean there's just so much for a very complex situation so thank you

Yes, can I respond very briefly, Madam President? Okay, Madam President and Councillor Baca, I just briefly want to talk about the breakfast. The morning that the arrests were made, it was brought to my attention. I did reach out to the councillors to let them know that we would be looking into the circumstances and ensure that our response was appropriate and if it wasn't, what could have been done differently. From that point forward, we worked with several entities within the city to include HHH and and reached out to the contacts that we knew within that community to talk about what we could do for next saturday's breakfast one of the concerns that did come up during the week is like you mentioned that shooting when we did not have the individual in custody yet who was responsible for two shootings and then a homicide at second and marquette i'll be very candid with uh council and those who are in attendance today i had a concern that that individual could have appeared at the breakfast we were trying our very best to communicate with those who One, attend the breakfast and put on the breakfast that as Albuquerque Police Department, we recognize the need to feed those who are unhoused and in that community. What we would like to see moving forward is for anyone within that group who is willing to talk with APD about what those breakfasts will look like so that we can have that communication. And I think this past Saturday went better because there was some communication where our ask was, to stay out of the street and not block the street. We recognize that the sidewalk was gonna be blocked and that was not a concern for us. And I do think there's improvement to move forward. And I do think the counselors, for those that they reached out to as well, and I do want to continue to work with that community to have better communication and response to those incidents. Because it was very much a concern for me and the officers, especially when that individual is not in custody yet.

Council Rogers.

Thank you. I just want to add a couple things. I just want to say thanks to the mayor's office, too, for sending field reps down to work with the John Brown Breakfast Club on those issues. I think one of the things that I said directly to the mayor is we should be de-escalating. And I think it was clear from everything I watched, the officer did not de-escalate. They escalated the situation instead of de-escalating, which I always go back to knowing the history of policing. Even saying it is hard, but you're supposed to be peace officers. I'm not escalating the situation. And I think it was clear that that officer escalated in that instance. And so I just appreciate the ability to work through that and figure out a better way. And I think this is a bigger issue. This is not just about the John Brown Breakfast Club. Because I have churches that are getting kicked out of places who have been also feeding at the International District Library, for instance. We have two of churches who've reached out to me who've been kicked out of that, not by APD, by Metro Security. And so my suggestion to Mayor when I met with him about this issue was that we should, as a city, figure out a way to put something online that says, if you are going to help us with homelessness, because that's what these folks are doing, Whether we like the cleanliness, I'm on all of us about the cleanliness and people feeding folks and not giving folks a place to throw those things away. But people still need to eat, right? And we're not doing it all the time. We're doing a lot as a city. But it's not only up to us. And the mayor has faith breakfast every year begging the church community to help us with homelessness. And it's not just John Brown Breakfast Club that are getting kicked out, it's also our churches. Three churches have reached out to me in the last three weeks, getting removed from trying to do their passion work of helping people. So I think as a city we should come up on the environmental website or wherever it lives that says if you want to feed folks, here are the rules. If you don't need a permit, if you're doing this, if this is what you need, if you need a permit. And I don't think that's APD's job. I know you get to talk about that today because of the incident, but that is not APD's job. That is not APD's job to be policing environmental permits for people feeding people. That's just not... what I need you to be doing. So I think we should work together with the groups that are feeding folks. I'm willing to help get everyone together, do something, but communicate to people how to help, how to do it properly, what are the rules, do's, don'ts, don't block the streets, whatever those things are, so that people can come alongside and help us. Because there are rules, though. But also, we have to be mindful of how we interact with each other. We're all in this boat Albuquerque together, y'all, and it's up to all of us to help with this issue, not just the city's responsibility. It's not APD's responsibility. The county has to do more. The state has to do more. U of M Hospital has to do more. It's not just our job. So thank you.

Madam President and Council Rogers, if I can just briefly add one thing, I agree with what you said. I just want to notify the group that I started an ambassador program. You know, Chief Medina had that, but I do have an ambassador who Would like to work with the unhoused community and if there is a group that feels comfortable meeting with them For APD purposes to talk about you know, what they're seeing and what they can do. I you know can connect with you on that CAO

Thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to tell the community, because I think it's really important. We have a homeless innovations officer within the Department of Health, Housing, and Homelessness, Brittany Karnasas. And her goal is to make all of the connections with anyone that is interested in working and supporting our opportunities to support. whether it's feeding or transportation or any other ways in which churches, our faith communities, or any counselor, if you have a group that you know of that is trying to do this, please. Counselor, if you have a group that you know of that is trying to do this, please let them know that we can make those connections quickly.

Councillor Tejas, thank you for your patience.

Thank you. Yes, I have a question for CFO Martinez and DFA Director Sandoval.

And Councilor Tejas, just to pass the 530, just as a reminder, and it is the discretion of the CAO that The directors are not obligated to answer. It's actually directed to the CAO. If she wishes to instruct her director to answer it, then it is allowed.

Madam President, Mr. Vice President, yes. I think Ms. Sandoval is here and CFO Martinez is online available.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Hello, Director Sandoval, how are you today? Just fine, thank you. Long time no talk. I just wanted to check the status on the city's contingency plan regarding federal awards. I do know that the continuing resolution that was passed and signed by the president did postpone the OMB uniform guidance to December 11th at the latest. But as you know, this is a continuing point of very serious issues regarding our budget and federal awards, so much so that even the state has created a subcommittee on federal funding stabilization. And so I want to make sure that we are identifying and doing the same. And so just wanted to check the status on that contingency plan.

Madam President and Councillor Tejas, we did receive your questions. Thank you. And we were tracking that it was been extended to December 11th. I have answers drafted to all of your questions. So we'll just get a final review on those responses and we'll get them over to you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President, Director Sandefal. Great. So you have initiated cross-agency evaluations

I have, Madam President and Councillor Tejas, we have responses to the questions that you asked.

Okay, does that mean that you have started a contingency plan? I haven't seen the responses, so I can just know what to expect. Councillor Tejas, yes.

Okay. That was one of your questions, so the answer is yes.

Thank you. That's what I wanted to see is just understanding that we are working on it. I appreciate it. Thank you, Director. Sure.

We have been for a while, so.

Thank you.

All right. I see nobody else has questions for the admin and it being 5.42 now. We'll move on to proclamations and presentations. President Pena.

Thank you for being here tonight. We're going to start with the proclamation, and then we'll ask questions. So whereas National Recovery Month, established in 1989 by the United States Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, is observed every September to promote, support, and celebrate people in recovery and those seeking recovery, as well as the dedicated service providers and communities who make recovery possible.

Whereas recovery is strengthened through connection and supportive relationships in families, communities, workplaces, schools, service providers, and local organizations. Each play an important role in creating environments where individuals can pursue and sustain recovery and

Whereas reducing stigma surrounding mental health and substance use is essential to ensuring that individuals and families feel welcomed, supported, and empowered to seek help, share their experiences, and pursue recovery without fear of judgment. And whereas 11 years ago, community-based organizations in collaboration with the City of Albuquerque, Bernalillo County, and the State of New Mexico established Albuquerque Celebrates Recovery, as a community-wide effort to honor National Recovery Month and recognize the strength, resilience, and accomplishments of individuals and families affected by mental health and substance use challenges, and.

Whereas Albuquerque Celebrates Recovery brings together individuals, families, community organizations, service providers and public partners to share hope, celebrate recovery, strengthen connections and promote a community where individuals and families are supported in their recovery journeys. And whereas the city of Albuquerque recognizes that recovery strengthens individuals, families and communities and affirms that every person deserves the opportunity to pursue a healthy, meaningful and fulfilling life and

Whereas the 11th annual Albuquerque Celebrates Recovery event will be held on September 24th, 2026 on Civic Plaza, bringing together individuals, families, community organizations, service providers, and public partners to celebrate recovery, share hope, and recognize the strength and resilience of our community. and be it proclaimed that the City of Albuquerque City Council recognizes September 2026 as National Recovery Month and encourages all residents to join in celebrating recovery, supporting those on their recovery journeys, reducing stigma, and building a community where every person has the opportunity to heal, connect, and thrive.

Thank you.

So we have Jennifer and David here from Serenity Mesa. If you have a few words, I just want to just start by saying I just think the work, obviously it's in District 3, so I think it's an incredible program. But over the years, you guys have just really built that organization into something that's really vital for not just District 3, but the entire city and the state of New Mexico. You guys do some really great work. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President, members of the council. Jeremy, myself, and David are a small portion of a large group that put on these Albuquerque Celebrate Recovery events. This is our 11th year, as was mentioned. And this is going to be our biggest event yet. We have 103 tables already. So that's 103 providers from all over the city of Albuquerque that are going to be there to provide resources and support. And our mission is to celebrate people who are in recovery, and it's also to provide services and support to people who are seeking recovery. So we'll have a lot of resources. I hope you can join us. It's September 24 at Civic Plaza from 10 to 2. And we also have our art show that is this weekend. It's on Sunday at the Wheels Museum, which is right by the rail yards. And that's from 10 to 2 as well. So we have artists who are in recovery that are going to showcase their artwork. that artwork will be on display the entire month of September for recovery month and it most of the art is also for sale as well so thank you all thank you the city of Albuquerque for being such a support not only for September being National Recovery Month but in support of our event as well thank you Jeremy did you want to say a few words I'd be happy to thank you madam chair

council I I do want to point to a very unique opportunity which is what this month is about that we have all year to focus on holes in our systems and building systems and fixing systems and solutions this month is a really nice relief from that our opportunity here is to focus on all of our opportunities to see hope and patience and recovery for In environments that sometimes seem very bleak or painful, dangerous or ugly, we get to focus on the success stories, which are very real. And we have many of those success stories in this room. And the focus is on advocating for people that can't advocate for themselves because they haven't been able to do so in a long time and maybe now don't know how. and watch those people become those advocates. Thank you so much for your support. And if you want to be overwhelmed by those stories, please show up on the 24th or this Sunday at the Wheels Museum. You'll be surrounded by them. Thank you.

Well, thank you. again thank you for being here and i just i it would i'd be remiss if i didn't mention adian carriaga you know he's the one that was tug at my ear every year about you know the national month of recovery and he's just a renowned artist and obviously somebody who who um you know suffered from addiction and then um celebrated his recovery and made sure that we all did too so thank you for being here you come around and oh i think they're just going to pass the proclamation to you so thank you so much for being here appreciate it Thank you again.

Madam President, next will be a presentation from Christine Borner, the city economist who will provide an update on the cannabis and gross receipts tax. Ms. Borner, thank you.

Mr. Vice President, members of council, I do have a GRT report and cannabis report. And these are the final reports for FY26. So the first one, we have the GRT. And so FY26 finished with June GRT showing. I cannot see, I'm sorry. 5.3% growth based on the 1.225 state shared increment. And cumulative growth for the year finished at 5%. For the construction, at negative 14.3. And health care at negative 8.9%. Those were the ones that had the slowest growth for June. While other services at 14% and retail at 6.5% showed positive for June. And so the year-ending five-month cumulative average showed the lowest ending for construction at 9.7% negative and manufacturing was 0.9 for the year. The highest five-month cumulative average for the year for five months shows professional and scientific and technical services at 11.6. That's not surprising, pretty much positive growth almost the entire year. And information has made a come around at 10.2% five-month cumulative average. And we can move to cannabis. So cannabis slowed a bit in June from May, but it still was quite strong at 8.9% and cumulative growth for the year finished at 6.7%. And that really concludes my report. I can take questions.

Council growth.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Thank you, Ms. Werner. I have a question. With GRT revenue higher than projected, what is the current projection for the total general fund for fiscal year 26?

Mr. Vice President, Councillor Grout, the GRT I can speak to, I think I have it here, compared to the original budget, it's about $8 million more. Compared to the estimated actual we had at Q3, it's about $6 million more. However, it's premature for me to talk about what the final general fund looks like. There are still some moving targets. It was the middle of October, if I remember, from last year when accounting was still making final adjustments. I will say that it looks like we're close to the expected. The GRT is a bit higher, but I know franchise is going to come in a little bit lower than expected. Interest earnings are going to be zero. We've got some unrealized losses. And then we've got some unknowns and other categories. I think, though, that charges for service are pretty close, perhaps a little higher, building permits. But I really can't speak to a final general fund number at this point. I'm sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. In October, we should know these numbers? Madam Chair.

Madam Chair and Councillor Grout, while we're still going through our year-end audit for fiscal year 26, that's why there were adjustments still made in October because as our auditors are finishing up the audit, which is due in December, we still may have to make adjustments which will affect our bottom line fund balance. So it's too difficult to say at this point.

Okay, thank you.

Madam Chair and Councillor Rogers, we still won't know that until the audit is completed and almost ready to submit to the state, which is due December 15th. And then once we submit it to the state, like we did in prior every year, then they will still have to approve it and review it. And then that's when we'll know the final audited act for numbers.

Thank you, Madam President. I'm aware of the process. I'm asking when does the audit come back to the city? Let me make it more clear.

Madam President, Councillor Rogers, the audit usually comes back to the city in January.

Okay. And what's the October date you just mentioned?

Madam President, Councilor Rogers, the October date is Ms. Bruner stated that there were still adjustments being made in October last year. And I said we could still be making adjustments this year in October and even November. But until we submit the audit and our auditors aren't complete, there can always be an adjustment made based on what is found in the audit.

Awesome. Thank you. So we'll follow up again in October and then again in December. Wonderful. Thank you.

Councilor Lewis. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Just some comments. You know that the numbers I know that we're translating these numbers into what it means for the city budget, because it's revenue to the city budget. But I do think it's important that we also look at these reports and consider, you know, consider some of the implications of policy. You know in our city when we have. manufacturing and construction that continues to be at the bottom, showing negative numbers. I mean, it's no wonder why we have people that are leaving our city. It's no wonder that businesses are struggling in our city. It's no wonder that, you know, in a district like mine on the west side that we, you know, suffer from a lack of services. You know, I think we need to look at our business environment and we need to look at policy. So again, we look at these reports as related to, hey, are we going to make our budget or not? How's this look for the budget, the massive budget that was approved? You know, so, you know, yeah, you know, manufacturing and construction is down. We're not building anything. I mean, we're smoking a lot of weed, apparently. And so, you know, that revenue comes in, you know, and we translate that to how our city budgets do it. I do think that there's a part of the takeaway from some of these reports that I think it'd be good for the administration to weigh in, at least from time to time, on looking at some of these trends on manufacturing and construction, the overall state of our economy as a city. How does that translate into policies that are working and not working? In our city You know, we all know it's fine again. We have plenty of money that Or you know looks like you know plenty of money, you know We could look at these reports and go it's going up or down We might have to tighten up a little bit as a city But there's some massive and these should be alarming some of these reports should be absolutely alarming when it comes to the overall health of our economy in our city, which translates into why a good portion of our city is in poverty without opportunities for jobs and good-paying wages that come from these kinds of sectors that we see the reports on over and over again. Thank you.

I believe that concludes all the questions for you. Thank you. Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. Next, we'll have a presentation from Police Chief Cecily Barker and Ms. Jody Escobal of ACS regarding questions I had last couple meetings ago regarding specific case where ACS was not dispatched on scene. So just wanted to get a breakdown of that case for the public.

Madam President and Councillor Rogers, we do have a PowerPoint that should be being uploaded now. I will start with just a brief on we're going to go over ACS and APD call priorities and our response to those and then briefly go over some of the officer-involved shootings knowing that we only have a short amount of time to do this. So Jody is going to start on the first slides and so we can move on.

Madam President, I would just ask that you start with the case first in the interest of time because that's what I really want to hear about. I didn't ask for a presentation on your collaboration. or your priority calls. I asked for you to give me a breakdown of this specific case, why someone called for mental health and ACS didn't come. So let's start there, and then if we have time, we can go through your presentation.

Madam President, Council Rogers, I'm sorry. We referred to your email. and that asked for the four officer-involved shootings that occurred within two weeks, where we were going to give the counselors the opportunity to meet with us and talk about our response to those. And I know you had a specific question about an officer-involved shooting, so that's what our presentation was referencing.

thank you madam president but that's not what i asked for publicly in this seat a couple meetings ago i was very clear about what i was asking for so if you're not prepared to do that today i don't want to waste our time madam president council rogers if you can just confirm which call i do have the last five and so You're planning to go through all of those today and all of these were calls and where does somebody needed mental health help? That's what I'm interested in the other one.

I mean, no there are several which is why I'm asking which one you're wanting to know more information on Sure, I think I was clear.

We'll say our mice his family's right behind you.

Okay. Thank you so that was in reference to a welfare check at 1515 8th Street and that is something that we have and On there. It was a mental health call. The person who made the phone call to police officers was not on scene. And so it was third hand information to, um, our dispatch. It was unknown if he had weapons at the time. And so officers responded and when officers arrived on scene, It was chaotic, meaning that there were several family members there trying to calm down the situation, and there was a lot of emotions going on. Within minutes, the officers on scene observed that the individual had a firearm, and at that point in time, ACS would have not responded. And so to be very specific and answer your question, it was a mental health call coming from someone who was not on scene, and it was unknown if there were weapons at the time, which is why APD responded.

Thank you, Madam President. So question for Director Esquivel. Did you review the dispatch call?

Council President and Councilor Rogers, thank you for the question. We did review the call together as Chief had mentioned. We talked about that being a third party call and not knowing all the information. It's important. to understand that dispatch is complicated in receiving the information and then there is a call criteria that meets the designation point for ACS to be dispatched to a call. I think one important thing to note that this leadership team as it is now established in ACS with the approval and collaboration with this current administration is that we've deemed a priority one call for ACS. That was not established before this leadership team. A priority one call does include an officer request. So if a PD is dispatched to a call for service that is not suited for them, a behavioral health call with no weapons or nothing escalated needing any type of safety concern for our responders, that is now dispatched to ACS as a priority one call meaning that that is our top priority, right? We are now responding to that call with the most sense of urgency. Two reasons, to make sure that it is the right call for the community that is important to ACS and important to all of us and why ACS was created is to have the right response at the right time. So if there is the safety net of that priority one call for APD to get on scene, To say this is not a call for APD, this is a call for ACS, they are prioritized for that reason. In year to date, there's over 1,000 calls for service that APD has been dispatched to. That's 1,166 calls year to date that APD has gotten on scene and then requested for ACS. And we have said that's a priority for us to be there.

Right, thank you. And that wasn't the case in this case. So you've already said from the dispatch call, it was unknown if they had weapons. So in my understanding of the dispatch, like how we dispatch ACS, if it's unknown, ACS should have been prioritized in that call. And so, Jody, how many... ACS responders do we have taking 911 calls for the priority that should have been prioritized in that call? and so Jody how many ACS responders do we have taking 911 calls for the priority right now that are assigned And positions are filled.

So that's three shifts. We operate 24 hours a day.

What's responder was available?

but i i i don't think that that is um recent in history as far as um the way that we're running field operations now is a far more efficient way um so i'd be more than happy to look into that number for you thank you i think that would thank you madam president that's something i definitely want your department to track when acs was appropriate for a 911 call but not available to go

that tells me we need more behavioral health responders. I mean, if we had 40 officers in the entire city of Albuquerque taking 911 calls, this place would be more packed than it is today. Like so I think I just I don't want there to be a situation where we should have had you there and they called and could not because we didn't have enough people didn't have enough cars. We didn't have enough responders, whatever that is. I don't want that to be the answer because I will I if I'm we know our history just looking at data. We're not talking about the history of policing or any of that. Forget all of that. They hit the data shows who gets life altering enforcement in this city and who does it. And it's disproportionately folks with mental health crisis. And so that is what you are here for. And I will say this sternly to the administration the scope creep that is happening in ACS. We've got to make sure I know that they're efficient and I can continue to be proponents of that and efficiency and the amount of things that they do well. but the scope creep. There are things that they were not intended to be doing that they're doing when it comes to homelessness, and everyone thinks ACS is the homelessness department, and they are not. That's health, housing, and homelessness under Director Gilbert Ramirez, not APD, not ACS. And so I just want to reiterate that. And that's why we did this publicly. I know that counselors can get all the information, look at all the things, but this is about transparency for the family, transparency for the people in our community who want to work together. We're all in this together. And so I appreciate you coming and doing this today. And I know you had a bigger presentation, but I know my colleagues probably want us to move along. But I appreciate working with both of you to continue to make sure we minimize harm in our community. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. I just wanted to speak to a few things because I think Chief Barker and Director Escobar had, I think, a presentation that spoke to many of the items that were just discussed. And I'm not going to get the numbers exactly right, but I think if I pull out the presentation. It's important to note that our emergency dispatch center gets more than 1,000 calls in a day. And in a typical day, about 165 of those calls are for ACS as the appropriate response. So when you think about the numbers of officers that we have versus about the safety of the scene, the APD has to be the department that ensures the safety for ACS responders. I think it's important to note that the administration and both of these directors, I'm sorry, Chief Barker and Director Escobar took this call very seriously, did extensive review of this specifically to make sure that we provided a response that was in a position to ensure that anyone responding was going to be in a position that they knew the circumstances when they did respond. So I know that it's a terrible situation when an individual's life is lost. We don't in any way want to claim that there is a justification, if that makes sense, on the record. It's about the situation as it was presented that day. So I just wanted to make sure that we had a record. It's about... the situation as it was presented that day. So I just wanted to make sure that we had the record. It's about the situation as it was presented that day. So I just wanted to make sure that we had. Thank you.

So I think the other thing that I would like to ask is that usually we have victim advocates for the family, core responders. No one has reached out. from CORA, from victim advocates to the family. So I would just ask that we do that at the very least. We need to come up with a process for how we talk and deal with the families. I think that's something I'm continuing to ask for, and I'm happy to work with you on that. I had to do that at the hospital. When we caused harm in nursing at UNM Hospital, we had a process to work with the families to make sure, and I know from both of you, I know your hearts, and I know that you want to do those things differently when it comes to how we deal with the families. And so I would just ask that we have a core responder or a victim advocate that would reach out to the family. Thank you.

really respect what Councillor Rogers was trying to do. I think, you know, if anything, this is such a sensitive situation and, you know, I'm sorry for the family for their loss, you know, but this becomes something that I think it should go to the Police Oversight Commission and to, you know, when we address these things. And I only say that because, you know, I had a nephew who was shot at the hands of the BCSO and, you know, it just really doing this in a public forum and, and really having the families have to hear this, I think it just makes it so much more difficult. And, you know, there's a bunch of issues associated with anything like this and lots of things that happen and don't happen. And, you know, I think just having the family live this out on a public forum is really difficult. But again, you know, I know... I sympathize with your concerns, I've been there, so I sympathize with your concerns, but I just hope that we can in the future, you know, not have this on kind of like this, and I would just appreciate it.

Thank you, Madam President, I appreciate it.

It is, this is your first, this is your first warning. This is your first warning. We need to discuss this in public because we're dying in public. This is your second warning. This is exactly... I'm going to have to... This is not a civil matter.

My nephew died.

You're going to have to... Officers, if you can excuse her out, please. I'm so sorry.

I am not sorry.

This is exactly... Jose, I must be served to live. We're going to recess for five minutes.

Jose, I must be served to live. All of you are guilty.

🎵 🎵 you so so Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. So we are now on to approvals. This is EC 223, appointment of Joshua D. Boone to the position of city attorney. I would move confirmation. Second. There's a motion to second by Councillor Feeblecorn for confirmation of Mr. Boone. Is there anyone signed up to speak, first of all?

Thank you, Madam President. Technically, yes. Do we have a Mr. John Van Dyke?

Can you repeat the name, Mr. Cornelius?

John Van Dyke.

John Van Dyke. He doesn't appear to be here, so.

Thank you, Madam President.

Is that it? That concludes, okay. So that concludes public comment on that. So Mr. Boone, would you like to say a few words?

OK. Madam President, council members, thank you so much for allowing me the opportunity to be here. And I just want to thank everybody that I had an opportunity to sit down, speak with, and for those of you who took the time out of your busy schedules to meet with me. And for those that I wasn't able to connect with, I know a handful of people we played phone tag or we just weren't able to make that happen in the short schedule. The thing that I wanted to say really is I think I told everybody the story of why I'm here and certainly I'll be standing for questions about that too. But I think the commonality theme that I found with all my discussions with this group in particular was that everybody here cares and everybody is extremely passionate about their vision for this city in this community. And I want us to focus on that moving forward. That is the common theme that tends to spread throughout this group. And we don't all necessarily agree about how that's going to go or how that vision even looks. But talking to everybody, when we looked at it, everybody cares. And I think coming from not yet quite confirmed as a city attorney, so as still a member of the public, that matters to me more than anything coming in front of this council. That I know even though my particular counselor

does care about this that everybody else in the city actually has that same common passion and care for this so with that I stand for questions are there any questions from counselors oh we have one more person okay we do also have Francesco artists signed up to speak if you can just take a seat right there just we missed someone

Thank you, Madam President. I stand on my public trust written brief that I sent all of you. Thank you. That does conclude. Thank you so much. My apologies.

Thank you, Mr. Boone. Any questions from councillors? Councillor Tejas, followed by Councillor Baca.

Thank you, Madam President. Hello, Mr. Boone. How are you doing?

Well, thanks.

Good. We had a great conversation already earlier this week, and I just want to, you know, let folks know what that conversation entailed, because we do have you know, some some matters coming before council later on during this meeting that affects potentially how you're going to operate in your role. Right. So depending on the outcome of what happens on on this ordinance that the, you know, mayor vetoed, I want to reiterate and have this conversation that regardless of what happens on that ordinance whether the veto stands or gets overridden or whatever that we have your commitment to translate those accountability provisions into your day-to-day practice for the legal department for city council for councils general counsel for the mayor's administration for OIA, we wanna make sure that all of the items raised in that ordinance are gonna be implemented regardless. So that's my question to you. I mean, are you committed to the accountability measures that we as a council passed in that ordinance that the mayor vetoed?

Madam President, Counselor, thank you for the question. The short answer is yes, but I think what you're looking for is a longer assurance that says something to the effect of all attorneys are required to follow our rules of professional conduct. Without those, then none of it really matters. So as city attorney, The overall goal is obviously to represent the client, but it's also to do the right thing. And I think that's what is articulated when you look at the Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 16, Subset Article 1. Everything in that ordinance is already held into the Rules of Professional Conduct. As an attorney, you are supposed to be community with your client to keep them informed and to consult with them, talk about strategy, talk about what is happening because you represent them. I wish that when it came to legal strategy, I think I told everybody, I'm sure people would love to sit at the table and make objections with me. That's usually the fun, cool part of being a lawyer, but that's not really what we do. The legal strategy is talking to you guys and, quite frankly, listening to the counsel and saying, if this is the will that the counsel has, then the city attorney needs to follow that and be able to defend whatever laws come out and is passed by this counsel. That is the job. That is what I do. And I think what you can look at for an assurance, because the worst thing you can tell a group of individuals who probably have some reservations, is to say, just trust me on this. What I will say is, look at my history. Look at what I have done in the past, and look at where I came from. I have a strong public background in the public safety sector, and as Chief Deputy District Attorney, the job was to bring all people to the table, whether it was prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, court administrators, That was the goal, and always to come out with the best decision at all times. So that would be my assurance to you, Councilor.

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Mr. Boone. Well, yeah, I mean. You're a very good lawyer, dancing around questions. But I just want to make sure that, again, specifically, that we can work together to create and implement an actual SOP for city attorney accountability that is ready to adopt, that it has operational guidance, you know, all the open items that will need resolution regardless of tonight's outcome. Right. So no general litigation dollar notification thresholds exists. um you know no internal intake points sort of the charter bylaw hooks all of the accountability and government oversight um that is necessary that the reason we pass this ordinance gets implemented um under your your potential um role in oversight

Madam President, Counselor, thank you for the question. Specifically, when we're talking about an SOP, what I would look to then is all the counselors and say, what is it that you would like in this new ordinance? Or what is it that you would like to be adopted? The goal would be, and if that is the first thing this council wants me to help assist and work with you guys on, I am more than happy to do that. And I think I've told everybody here, if that includes putting a provision in that makes it easier to get rid of me, Let's make that happen too. I want to be able to work for this city in the best way that is going to make you guys comfortable and bring back whatever trust issues may be existing.

Thank you, Madam President, Mr. Boone. Thank you. Yeah, I think for me, my first ask would be, either will develop a SOP based off of the ordinance. If it doesn't, regardless of the outcome, we have an SOP developed that ensures everything in our ordinance is developed and captured and implemented as part of an accountability measure. between this office, you know, the council and the administration. So that would be my ask. So thank you. Thank you.

Councilor Baca.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Mr. Boone. I know we also had a couple of conversations and meetings. Some of my questions were pointed, and I try to be transparent with everything. So quick question. Do you believe the city council is a client to the city attorney?

I believe that the attorney represents the city itself, the organization. The amorphous city. Yes.

Okay. Would you meet with attorneys that were suing City Council and offer them advice or strategize with them on how to proceed against us?

So I believe that's already considered within the ordinance, and I think that is one of the things, and I apologize, Madam President Counselor.

I'm not speaking on the ordinance yet. This is just a morphing question.

Sure. Madam President Counselor. I believe if I'm answering your question correctly, follow up with me if I don't.

In any situation.

Okay. I think the idea is if we're at that point in litigation where city council and the administration are about to go into litigation with each other, the city attorney needs to step out. It needs to be a neutral, independent party. You should not be involved with it. And I think the ordinance does account for that, but I think a charter review, quite frankly, would make that better. So in my particular position, without getting into specific hypotheticals, you should always take the position of stepping back when you feel that a conflict of interest may arise.

Okay. Would you fire outside counsel representing this body without our express consent?

Madam President, Councilor, I think there's always an exception to every rule. So it's hard to say 100% every single time no. But I think based on the discussions that we had, if it came to my attention that outside council was doing something illegal, I believe the correct response I would give is I would notify council president and say this is something that is an emergency basis and just has to happen. But generally speaking, no.

Thank you. So then to follow up on Councillor Taez's question, within the veto message, it says the conditions of your appointment are to, would you elaborate on that? I wasn't quite sure if that was meaning you were going to implement the ordinance or you were just gonna work with us. To me, it seemed amorphous. So would you elaborate on what the conditions for your appointment are that are specified in this veto message, 054?

So, Madam President, Counselor, I believe what we're talking about in there is the duties that are required for the attorney, for specifically the city attorney, to be able to represent any client, so the organization, but part of that would be being able to meet with city councilors at their request being able to have conversations with them being able to inform them on a consistent basis i know one of the things that was expressed to me was being informed about current litigation and what's going on and knowing what is happening on a more consistent basis so i think it's going with what is in the ordinance that don't conflict with the rules of professional conduct but then also speaking individually with the counselors and asking what it is that individual counselors are looking for specifically in that and seeing if we can incorporate those as well

Thank you. Now, the administration, obviously, by vetoing, they've expressed their opposition to this particular ordinance. If this body were to override that veto, the ordinance would then effectively, after so many days, become law, and the administration were to ask you to start litigation against the council. Would you agree with that?

Madam President, Counselor, this is a great attorney answer, but it depends. They're asking me to start litigation against you for what reason?

No, I'm not. I'm not asking. I'm asking if the administration were to ask you to start litigation because they do not agree with an ordinance, would you agree with them?

I think if, Madam President, Counselor, I believe the administration asked me to start litigation, I think the answer would be no. I think that's something I would step out of. But I think at the same time, before we got there, the goal would be to sit down in a room and have the conversation before we ever get there. It may be shocking, but as a former trial attorney, my least favorite thing is, in fact, trial. I don't want to be in litigation, and I'd like to avoid it at all possible.

Yeah. No, thank you. I agree with you. I mean, we have processes in place. We have a board in place to settle disputes. Litigation should never be our first step. I had one more question. Oh, how do you? I'm going to skip this one because I don't have it correct. So thank you, Mr. Boone.

Thank you, counsel.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Mr. Boone. I know we had a great conversation as well. One of the things I asked during our conversation was, what do you know about the case that's led us here, which is our firefighter dispute? You said you had not read that case or didn't know about it, which was shocking to me at the time, because that's why we're basically here. Well, not all of us. We weren't all unanimous on that. Thank you, Councilor Feeble-Corn, for reminding me of that. The majority of us were on the same page about our firefighter paramedic situation. So since our conversation, did you read about it and find out why we're even here?

Madam President, Counselor, yes, I had time and the opportunity to brief over the case and really more the processes behind everything that you asked me to do. So if the follow-up question is why are we here?

What did you learn from reading that case that was shocking that you had not read and taking this job now?

Madam President, Counselor, I don't want to comment necessarily on what anybody else did prior to my arrival here. However, I think the biggest takeaway going through that and going through that case, it doesn't matter what profession you are in in life, you need to communicate. And I think the biggest takeaway from that case was Communication is key, and certainly coming from the city attorney's office to all the individuals and all the parties, there needed to be communication. And what I tell many individuals at my prior job, you can know everything, you can have all the information upstairs in your head, but if you can't communicate that in an effective manner, then it doesn't matter. So what I think the takeaway from that would be there needed to be better communication. And moving forward, I think that would be the goal that I would have in this situation.

Thank you, Madam President. I told you, you gave me the same answer that you gave me before.

I like to be consistent.

Yeah, but I think it's relegating it to a communication issue is a gross undercharacterization. of my feelings as a counselor and how we were treated as a client, just straight up. And so to hear it's just a little communication issue, it worries me. Because look, when the administration and the legislative body are at odds, You are supposed to stand like, right? There's a very clear role about what you are to do and what you are not to do. And as a client, I want to have confidence that that is what will happen if this happens again. Because with a veto on our agenda, I think a lot of us have alluded to that. is your legal opinion going to be the nuclear option and send us to three bodies at the same time when we didn't agree right that's what i think we're trying to get to and we're all dancing around and i don't do that we just ask the question and so i think that's what what i'm worried about and what i want to make sure we have in the city attorney is that yes you are here for the people of the city of albuquerque But you have two very specific issues, like the veto we have on our agenda, very clear differences in what both of those bodies want or think is the right answer. And so I'm glad that you've read through that. Not glad that your answer didn't change. But I appreciate you going through that again with me. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Council.

Councilor Tayes. Oh, you had a question. I'm sorry.

I didn't know that written down. That's OK.

Followed by countertape.

OK, thank you, Madam President. Not really a question. I just wanted to say, you know, I think I think it's no secret that I am very unhappy with the current situation. You can see that by the fact that my bill is the one that was vetoed. And I had a long conversation with Mr. Boone and I, you know, for better or worse. under the current system he's going to work for the mayor and he's going to do what the cao tells him to do that is how it works unless we do something but i will say that that is not what we're discussing here right now what we're discussing right now is whether mr boone is qualified and is going to be a good city attorney and i am confident that he will I think I got the, I didn't get the answers I wanted when we met, but I got the answers that I think are all he can promise given the current situation. And I just appreciated that he was honest and that he met with us all. And I think, you know, I look forward to working with you to better the situation.

President Kessler, thank you.

Councilor Grout. Thank you, Madam President. It was nice to meet with you the other day. I enjoyed our conversation. You answered my questions quite thoroughly, and I appreciated that very much. We just have a couple of questions. What is today? Wednesday?

Wednesday. Madam President and Councilor Grout, it's Wednesday, and we wear pink on Wednesdays.

We wear pink on Wednesdays, apparently. So now we all know. Will you be enforcing all of the laws in the city?

Madam President, Counselor, I will enforce all the laws that this body asked me to enforce. That is the job. I think there are some laws that we ask the District Attorney's Office and other agencies to do, but yes.

Okay, very good. Thank you. I look forward to working with you. I'm glad we have a fresh start, and I'm looking forward.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. I appreciate it. Mr. Boone, we've known each other for a long time. Fun fact, Josh and I used to work in the same building for a really long time. And so, you know, I'm familiar with your work and I know your ethic and I know your commitment to your practice. And so I agree with Councillor Feeblecorn. I think you're more than qualified for this position. And I do have just one more question though. What is your position on meaningful opportunity to participate standard?

Madam President, Counselor, I believe, I mean, my definition as an attorney with any client that I represented was informing them of what the litigation process was. And if we weren't in the necessarily litigation aspect of it, where we were at in any sort of legal issue. But allowing them to ask every question that they had and answering that question to the best of my ability so that they may not agree with what we were doing, but everybody was informed about what was happening. And I believe that would be my standard for that, is you should walk away from the meeting saying, I disagree with city attorney, but I understand where they're coming from. I understand the legal side of it. And I had an opportunity to voice my concerns and, quite frankly, my opinions and what I think may be the strategy. And in some instances, quite frankly, the client is the one that has to tell us what to do. So sometimes you just have to listen to what the client says and do that.

Thank you, Madam President. Last question. Are you going to... designate someone in your office or will you serve as an intake point for direct counsel requests?

Madam President, Counselor, I think that may be something that we can discuss during, you know, any of the things that we had brought up earlier with the SOPs. Would you like a specific point of contact? I'm perfectly happy being the conduit in for any counselor or staff that has questions, quite frankly. But if there is another area or you want to talk to anybody at City Legal, please. I'm more than happy because I will tell you right now, there are people there who have more specified knowledge than I do about many areas. So I would like for you to get the answers as fast as you can.

Thank you, Mr. Lee. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilor Lewis.

Thank you, Madam President. And thanks for the time. Enjoyed getting to know you and your background. And I think you bring a lot to this position here and sincerely hope that you have a great career here, to add to a great career that you already have. you know this I think what's on everybody's minds and uh um and you know I understand and this is about your your qualifications and you know the decision about appointing you here and I think I mean aside from that um this you know this council you know experience just a I think a very unusual situation over the last year where um And probably, you know, in my 16 years of being here, I don't think it's ever happened. And probably put a city attorney really in a possible situation. You know, the mayor of Albuquerque suing the city council, and you have the city suing the city. And so, again, that would have been a tough situation for anybody. And I think a lot of the questions and a lot of the things that are on the council's mind is, is related to that, lost some trust there. And it also just put into question everything regarding the position. And so I think one of the best things that you said that we talked about is that an attorney's role is more than just writing a suit. It's more than writing a legal letter. It's more than sending warnings. It's helping, you know, a potential plaintiff and a potential defendant to be able to talk through and work through, you know, issues without going to litigation in that regard. And so when you have a mayor that suggests, I want to sue the council, the first response of the city attorney is, well, let's rethink that, you know. Is this really what we want to do, you know? And so you articulated that. I think that was really well said. But because that's on the minds of this council, something we've been through, and maybe will never happen again. So hopefully some of these questions are things of the past and we move forward. And you lead that department as doing everything you can do to defend the city and do what it needs in that regard. So thank you. Thanks for the time.

Thank you, see no other questions. Talk about being thrown into the deep end of the pool right away, huh? So I moved confirmation second by Council people corn. Mr Joshua Bloom to the position of city attorney. Madam clerk.

Yes. Yes. Vice President champagne.

Yes.

Councilor Favelcorn? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Taez? Yes. President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

Congratulations.

And Council President, Mr. Boone, has expressed a willingness to jump right into the job and is willing to sit up here on the dais tonight if Council President and Council are open to letting him.

Yes, that'd be wonderful. Does he have an email, Madam President? I was asking if he's already in the city system.

I'm just saying, my HR background is going, hmm.

i am not in the system yet you are not in the system well then probably not there okay okay nice try brian almost thank you thank you thank you so we are now on to other business this is ec245 veto of o2654 amending roa 1994 chapter 2 article 7 part 2 related to the city attorney and The city legal department and repealing section 325 of the code of resolutions and this is Councilor Feeblecorn and Champagne, but I'm going to read this. If a councilor wishes to attempt an override of the mayor's veto, they will make a motion to override. If no motion is made, Or if a second is not achieved, the mayor's veto stands. Also, if a motion is made, a second is received, but six votes are not obtained in favor of the override motion, the mayor's veto stands. So is there a motion on the table?

Madam President, I make a motion to override the mayor's veto of 02654.

second there's a motion by councillor people corn in the second by vice president champaign for an overwrite so i don't know if you both of you want to

Thank you madam president, so I'm really excited that we have a new city attorney. I think that's really wonderful But I'm gonna say this really clearly. I really liked the old city attorney Until I didn't I think we have a system in place that creates potential problems without something in writing about how we interact with the city attorney, we are likely to end up back in the same place. Because as I said, the city attorney works for and reports to the mayor and the CAO. So I just really quickly want to talk about what this ordinance does. It requires that the city attorney report to council on cases that involve council. I think that's just basic stuff that should be happening anyway, and I'm sorry we have to write it down, but I think we do. It requires that the city attorney and the city attorney's staff work with council. Again, something that's been happening all along. It's very upsetting to the mayor, but I think it's important that I can get legal advice from whoever in the city who is an attorney who I want to go to and ask for advice. And it requires that the city attorney respond to council requests via our staff. I do not have the time, and I don't know many people on this dais that do, have the time to check in on every single case that we are involved in. There are a lot of land use matters that happen. And so I regularly ask our attorney to check in with the city attorney. And she has been getting no response. Because it is a faux pas for our staff to ask the city attorney anything. And I guarantee you that the city attorney regularly responds to requests from department directors and the CAO. I guarantee you that it does not have to come from the mayor. And so I don't know why it would have to come from me if I am asking our staff to please find out where we are on this very important land use matter or whatever it is. I do want to go over some of the things that were talked about in the veto message that I found strange. It said that this should be handled in the charter review process. I don't know how on earth we would put into the city's charter the provisions that are in this ordinance. This ordinance just says you have to answer our questions. You have to report to us. Our staff can ask you questions. That is not charter material. That is just how the city attorney interacts with the city council. In that veto message, it said that it changes the relationship with administration. not true. Doesn't have anything to do with the administration, which is why I'm so confused as to why we're here with this veto. Literally nothing in this ordinance talks about the administration. This is our relationship with our city attorney and we have every right to have some rules about how that relationship is handled. Um, Again, I will just leave it at saying, you know, I think I'm excited to work with the new city attorney. We all know that the city attorney is going to work for the mayor and report to the CAO. I think it's really important that we have a few guidelines in place that say that you also work with us so that we do not end up back here. in six months or a year or if Mr. Boone moves on and there's a new one. I think that these are just basic things that we need in writing that say how the city attorney works with the city council on cases that have to do with city council.

Thanks. Vice President Champagne, did you have anything to add?

Madam President, no. My fellow counselor put it perfectly crystal clear about what this was presented in the confusion of an override or confusion of a veto. This has been an example that has been coming down on several other levels in regards to this office. So again, we are faced with a confusion of People saying they want to work together and they want to go toward a certain direction together to accomplish things together, but yet are not allowed to do it together. So yeah, my fellow councilor put it best.

Councilor Lewis.

Well, thank you, Madam President. I really just wanted to dive into the veto message and really try to come from the administration's perspective here and understand it and try to give deference to it as much as I could. see the bill the original bill and look at this and go you know there's nothing in here that's harmful nothing that is is punitive in any way toward you know our relationship with the city attorney or the administration really tried hard to see the administration's perspective on this but also realizing that you know the bill came out of you know some of the You know, maybe some experiences, some mistrust, but what the bill does is just simply outline some communication and some procedures, and I don't see it as harmful. And, you know, I mean, if anything, it really just outlines and helps improve that relationship. And so... Again, trying to give some deference to the administration on this, look for a way to compromise on some of this. But I'm truly having a hard time understanding or getting the argument of the veto. And so I mean because of that I think this doesn't hurt anything if anything it helps I You know I kind of wonder sometimes is this I mean to kind of go back to a little bit of the power struggle In that regard in fact, I don't I'll say this too that I don't necessarily like bills like this because I'm not sure they're always necessary. I don't like adding, you know, more to the ordinance in this regard. But at the same time, so I'm not naturally inclined to just vote for something like this or to sponsor something like this. But at the same time, you know, I don't see any harm to it whatsoever. If anything, I think it can be helpful. And again, after really trying to give some deference to the mayor in this way as well. So thank you, Madam President.

Thank you madam president miss cool it on I have a few questions the mayor's veto message says that oh 54 conflicts with the city charter but it doesn't specify how have you been able to determine what conflict the administration might be referring to.

Not a president councillor grout. I have not been able to do so the veto message is very general and broad. with its allegation that there's a conflict contained between the bill and the charter. The charter covers three topics related to the city attorney, the appointment, removal, and the term, none of which were affected by the changes proposed in 054.

Thank you. Madam President, the veto message also refers to a charter review task force. However, the city attorney ordinance lives in the code of ordinances. Would a charter review also review ordinances?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, typically, no. The charter review task force has historically been limited to a review of the charter. Not to say that the council might be able to request review of an ordinance. That just hasn't happened before.

Thank you. For anyone who may not know, please explain the relationship between the city attorney ordinance and the city attorney section of the charter.

Madam President, Councilor Grout, in the hierarchy, the charter would control and then ordinances must be consistent with the provisions of the charter. Thank you. Okay, thank you.

So with that, Robert Frost famously wrote, good fences make good neighbors. 054 clearly defined the working relationship that the city attorney should have with both council and the administration. The charter defines how to hire and fire the city attorney. But the working relationship rightly belongs in our ordinances. And it's the council's job to write policies like this. I think 054 is a good bill, and I'm going to support the override.

Thank you. Does the CAO want to add anything?

Madam president, thank you. I think that the discussion is an important one and I appreciate that We've had a lot of very robust discussions related to the relationship of the city turn attorney and with the administration and City Council I appreciate that the goal in this Ordinance amendment is related to defining the relationship with City Council I think I just want to make sure that some clarifying points related to the message within the veto message from mayor keller is related to the fact that when we state how the city attorney is to operate that in several cases it does define what we believe is a conflict for the city attorney when you are in conflict with the administration and or the charter and the reason being that when the ordinance directly indicates that others, other attorneys, shall be required to be included in setting the legal strategy or the legal decisions of the city attorney. When it's other attorneys, I think there is concern about whether or not the city attorney, as stated in the charter, has the prevailing legal position within the city. That is not meant to be contrarian. It's not meant to create an argument. It's just meant to say that we need to have the city attorney through clarification is in the prevailing legal position for the city. I also think that when you talk about any law firm and who decides or how you manage a law firm, the statement around concerns in terms of whether or not they are the prevailing attorney also goes to when an attorney that works for them is in discussions on providing legal advice, typically the senior attorney is ensuring that they are overseeing and ensuring that they agree with that. Again, it's just a statement around a common practice with attorneys. And with the city attorney being our senior attorney, that is what that is referencing. Ultimately, obviously, the ordinance is within your all's purview and your authority. We have concern that, and I understand Council staff's position that a charter task force would not look at ordinances. However, I think charter task force do look at interdependencies between ordinances that have been written to ensure that we understand when the charter change, how it would affect other ordinances or other actions of the, and gives that advice. And again a charter review task force is only making recommendations and providing advice They don't make any decisions and that advice would be coming to you all as a City Council and obviously then to the board voters when charter changes are made So just to be clear our goal is really to be in a position that the new city attorney would have an opportunity to work with all of us to outline how we operate to ensure I think every notion of the or desire I should say or intent of the amendments that have been made in this ordinance can be carried out through an effective operating agreement. As I multiple times with several counselors and with council services director talked to, we should have an agreement on how we operate. and what communication looks like and what timeliness communication looks like and when I am in a position to obviously not, the city attorney often has to say to me, I cannot discuss a matter with you because they are in discussion with city council or with city councillors and you all wouldn't know that because Those are discussions that when I raise a matter, they have to say I am conflict and cannot speak to you on this matter. It happens more often than not. than, of course, anybody that wants to have an attorney at their fingertips would love. But it happens often, often enough. So with that, I just would say that I would ask for the veto to be upheld on the principle of us being able to work together. We keep having these conversations. And it keeps being stated in very public ways that we all want to work together to move forward together. And in multiple situations, I think we attempt that. both sides which we attempt to work together and when it comes down to it being really hard to work together we oftentimes end up in this position in which we are at a stalemate and and a standoff and to me this is a perfect opportunity for us to work together and determine how we work together going forward to ensure that you feel your relationship with the city attorney is well defined for the administration to understand that as well for the city attorney to operate at the highest in the highest integrity and to serve the city of Albuquerque. Thank you.

Thank you. So there is a motion by. I had asked you and you said no. OK.

Thank you, Madam President. Um, so I, I just, um, in closing, I want to say, you know, we heard two things from the CAO that talked about, um, you know, what are these conflicts that keep coming up? Um, one was that our attorneys, um, shall be included in the strategy. of cases that involve the city council and i um miss coulidon could you read the rest of that sentence or that clause there that talks about we want to be included in the strategy but we very much understand that we are not the ones that are leading on this situation madam president counselor people corn uh yes so the section about involving uh council legal in

strategy discussion for cases involving city council action concludes with nothing in this section shall be construed to require the city council's general counsel or their designee to enter a parents in litigation or to direct control or manage litigation.

Thank you. Ms. Cool it on. So again, we're just saying just like what happens on the administration side, which is when a case is brought forward, um, directors, CAO, the deputy CAO, all participate in strategy conversations with the city attorney. And so all our bill is saying is that we also should be involved in those strategy conversations with the city attorney. So I just find that disingenuous. The second thing that we heard was that there's this hierarchy of attorneys and senior attorneys need to oversee junior attorneys. But we just heard from our new city attorney, Mr. Boone, less than 10 minutes ago, I think, that he has no problem with us reaching out to whoever we need to reach out to. And so that just seems like a control mechanism that's coming from the administration doesn't really seem to be rooted in reality. So I will say that we heard from the CAO, Dr. Single, quote, we should have an agreement on how we operate. End quote. I completely agree. We do now because it's in this ordinance that this body passed. And so all I would ask is that you support the body and the work that we've done to create that agreement on how we operate. Thank you.

Thank you. Again, EC 245, motion by Councillor Feeblecorn, second by Vice President Champagne for an override. Madam Clerk.

Councillor Baca?

Yes.

Councillor Besson?

No.

Vice President Champagne?

Yes.

Councillor Feeblecorn? Yes. Councillor Grout? Yes. Councillor Lewis?

Yes.

Councillor Rogers?

No.

Councillor Tejas? Yes. President Pena. No. It passes on a 6-3 vote.

Thank you. We are now on to the journal. So we are at time for a break. I'm going to go through the communication introductions because I don't think anyone's taking anything off of there. And then we will take a break just so that everyone knows. Yeah, okay. Let me just run through this really quick. So we are now on the journal. I move approval of the August 17th journal. Second. There's a motion and a second by Councillor Rogers. All those in, Madam Quick. Councillor Baca.

Yes. Councillor Passant.

Yes.

Vice President Champagne? Yes. Councillor Fabricorn? Yes. Councillor Grout? Yes. Councillor Lewis? Yes. Councillor Rogers? Yes. Councillor Tejas? Yes. President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

We are now on to communications and introductions. Are there any changes to the letter of introduction? We have EC 243 move the rules be suspended for the purpose of placing EC 243 on tonight's agenda for action. EC 243 is a lease agreement between Harmony Road Recovery and the City of Albuquerque at 5400 Gibson Boulevard Southeast. Second. There's a motion to second by Committee of the Whole, Grout. And if no one objects.

Does anyone object. We need to take a roll call.

We have to take a roll call. You didn't tell me that. OK. Because somebody's on. OK. Madam Clerk.

Councillor Baca.

Yes.

Councillor Besson. Yes. Vice President Champagne? Yes. Councilor Favelcourt? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis?

Yes.

Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Tejas? Yes. President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

This one is Baca, Besson, and Rogers by request.

Thank you madam president are 66 move that the rules be suspended for the purpose of placing are 2666 on tonight's agenda for action are 66 is approving authorizing the acceptance of grant funds from the next office of broadband exists an expansion for the ARPA community Wi-Fi Park project and appropriating funds Department of technology and innovation.

Second. There's a motion in the second by Councilor Rogers. Madam Clerk.

Councilor Baca?

Yes.

Councilor Bassan? Yes. Vice President Champagne?

Yes.

Councilor Piepelkorn? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Tejas? Yes. President Pena? Yes. Passes unanimously.

We are now on R-68, Councillor Baca.

Thank you, Madam President. I move that the rules be suspended for the purpose of placing R-2668 on tonight's agenda for action. R-68 is appropriating funding provided by the State of New Mexico Department of Workforce Solutions to the Gizmo Arts Recovery Housing Project in City Council District 2.

Second. There's a motion and a second by Councillor Rogers, Madam Clerk.

Councillor Baca? Yes. Councillor Besson?

Yes.

Vice President Champagne? Yes. Councilor Favelcourt? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Taez? Yes. President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

We are now on R62. Councilor Grout and Rogers.

Madam President, I move to amend the letter of introduction for the purpose of placing R2662 on the September 21st Council agenda for action. R62 is adopting an amendment to the Albuquerque-Bernalillo County Comprehensive Plan to extend the Main Street Corridor designation from Wyoming Boulevard to Tramway Boulevard. Second.

There's a motion and a second by Councillor Rogers. Madam Clerk. Councillor Baca.

Yes.

Councillor Basag.

Yes.

Vice President. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry. She was trying to get the button.

Thank you.

Vice President Champagne?

Yes.

Councilor Favelporn? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Taez? Yes. Yes. Councilor, uh, President Pena?

Yes.

Councilors unanimously.

We are now on report to Committee Councilor Lewis.

Madam President, the Finance and Government Operations Committee met on Monday, August 24th, reports of the following items in the matter of EC 176, EC 202, EC 211, that they be approved. In the matter of EC 218, that it be without recommendation. In the matter of R 52, 53, 59, 60, 61, that they do pass. I make a motion to accept the committee reports.

Second. I second. There is a motion and a second by Committee of the Whole. Chair Grout, Madam Clerk.

Councilor Baca?

Yes.

Councilor Brisson? Yes. Vice President Champagne?

Yes.

Councilor Papelkorn? Yes. Councilor Grout? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Tejas?

Yes.

President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

We are now on deferrals and withdrawals. Councilor, are there any deferrals or withdrawals at this time? Seeing none, the next item will be the consent agenda when we return from break at 7.40.

. Thank you. music music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Music. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. so Push me free.

Okay, welcome back everyone. We are now on item eight, the consent agenda. Are there any changes to the consent agenda? Councillor Grout.

Madam President, I'd like to pull item G, EC 213 off the consent agenda. EC 213 is the revenue and expense report for the third quarter fiscal year 2026.

We don't need a second.

Madam President, I'd also like to pull off item H, EC 214, off the agenda, consent agenda. EC 214 is the approval and authorization of the grant application to FEMA from the Albuquerque Fire Rescue Department.

Thank you. And so for the individuals on tonight's consent agenda who are being appointed to serve on a board or commission, thank you for your willingness to serve, whether you're here or online on Zoom. So I move approval of the consent agenda. Second. There's a motion and a second by Committee of the Whole, Chair Grout. You're slow. Although, Madam Clerk.

Councillor Baca?

Yes.

Councillor Besson?

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Passes on this. Madam President, Councilor Grout, Director Sandoval, and Kevin Noel are here.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Noel, for being here. The second quarter projection from last year showed that you all were overspending by $11 million, almost the same amount as this third quarter projection is showing. In the past few years, overspending in the second quarter has been corrected By the third quarter, this time it's not. What's different this year?

Madam Council President, Council President, Councilor Grout, the main difference is that the council approved a $15 million increase between the mayor's proposed budget and their approved budget. Whereas in FY26, the increase between the proposed budget and the approved budget was $2 million. And so in order to properly reflect that increase, we had to include the $11 million overspend. As you know, there was a discussion about how this money should be carried forward. So in order to properly reflect that, we had to include that $11 million projection.

From fiscal year 25?

I'm talking about FY, from FY 26. You're talking about the FY 27 approved budget, correct? No, sir.

I'm talking about fiscal year 25. and fiscal year 26.

Correct. And what I'm saying is that in order to reflect that increase of 15 million dollars between the proposed budget and the approved budget for FY 27, I had to include that 11 million dollar overspend as well as the carry forward that there was so much debate about.

OK. So have you curtailed spending in the fourth quarter?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, yes we have.

And when will we get that?

As the economists spoke earlier Accounting is still in the process of finalizing FY 26, right? We will have you know trial balances Sometime in October November. Okay, and then the audited report will come out in January.

So, okay. Thank you Counselor takes

Hello, director. How are you? Okay, so I want to follow up on a couple of things based off of our conversations that we've had offline regarding this council's oversight. And, you know, just some of the recent economist reports on gross receipts and cannabis revenue. We also want to, you know, if you look at... You know, we've had I've had several of my constituents call me concerned about the most recent Larry Barker investigative report over over that, you know, unserved property and how there was no you know, accountability and where's the procurement processes and all of these things, right? And so I think there is some questions here because, you know, I have been asking for read-only access to our systems. You know, Budget Pro. I know we have DSS. I know PeopleSoft is our system of record. you know earlier there was uh you know uh some information about well you know we can't actually provide revenue projections and scenario planning for council based on revenue streams because you know this they haven't been closed yet and um the audit is still being reviewed and um You know, we can still see and we should still see and receive information regardless if the year end is closed or not, because we're oversight. I'm not disputing You know that capacity is tight or whatever, but here's the thing. The fact is we can produce planning and revenue projections. That's exactly what the unit budget pro software does. We wouldn't need the administration to build reports, build projections for us. We could pull all the same historical GRT cannabis. These revenues we could build our own scenarios independently. um it's not we're not asking you to do more work you know my question is you know why do we keep getting pushback on granting council full read-only access to our budget pro software because you know and i've heard i've heard the reasoning i understand you know what your reasoning is, but it doesn't, it's neither valid nor is it sound. So I just wanna know why we can't get that because we can build those projections on our own. We can see that information on our own. And in fact, for true oversight, we should be able to, we should be able to create and duplicate everything that you create and duplicate. That is what oversight is. Right. So I just don't understand. I mean, we can do that. Exactly what, you know, Councilor Grout mentioned, like we couldn't see all of that if we had that access. So I don't understand why we can't get why we're still in this, you know, back and forth.

Council President, is that a question?

Yes. So why can't we get full read-only access?

Council President, Councilor Tejas, we had this discussion yesterday. And as we explained to you, you do have the access to see it in DSS right now. You can pull it up right now. And I even explained to you that a lot of the questions that you're asking, I'm not about accessing UNA because all UNA does is it downloads data from PeopleSoft at a point in time, typically in November, in order for us to prepare the budget. And from that point forward, it's all just adjustments based on the decision that the administration is making. However, what you're asking about, Councilor Tejas, is looking at actual information and making a projection from that. You have the access right now to run that report in DSS, and I explained to you yesterday that all you have to do is ask the former people that were in the budget office to run a DSS query, tie it to the first column for, in this case, FY25 actual expenses. They can do that for you if they ran it right now. Secondly, they could run it and give you the original budget for FY26. They could run it and give you the revised budget for FY26.

But that's not actually true, because DSS is built on pre-built queries. So these pre-built queries live in the DSS framework. They're organized into localized folders that's based on financial operations. So we actually cannot do that because of those pre-built queries that we don't, you know, those tables rely on the IBM Congos. whatever that the business intelligence tool is, right? So it exists as a pre-configured reporting template. It's cataloged by SQL. It's designed to extract data for audits, reconciliations, and departmental tracking. So we can't actually see that in the DSS tables. We can't actually see that in PeopleSoft. because these are pre, we can't actually see that in the DSS tables. We can't actually see that in PeopleSoft because these are pre, one of the other things that I had mentioned during our conversation is this is all publicly, available information and if we as a council cannot get access to the systems that we need in order to perform our fiduciary duty to the people of albuquerque to protect their taxpayer dollars You're essentially hindering our obligation as city councilors by not giving us access to those databases. And again, it's public record. So if we can't get access, you know, I guess just expect a IPRA request from me every single day from my office to get that information that we need.

council president consulate is uh... as i mentioned to you yesterday the ordinance was always do it now with software as a service is that they allow for example the customer the city to set up the system the way it needs to be established and then however we x with the trial balances were going to go into five-year forecast and then we'll be going into budget prep so uh... for a lot of information that you're requesting now go against the ordinance and start providing that ahead of time will actually interfere with a lot of that work. The other thing that you mentioned, and I think you, like I said yesterday, there's a misunderstanding of how Yuna works and also how DSS works. DSS, and actually Yuna pulls information from a pre-built query from PeopleSoft. So when we run that query in November, as I mentioned, we also run the queries in DSS and PeopleSoft to validate the information. So what you're alluding to is you're going to be getting the same information. And I know you threw out a bunch of technical terms. I mean, a lot of them were incorrect. But the thing is that you do have that access to run it. And you can run it right now and see where we're finishing the year.

Mr. Noel, Madam President, here's the thing. The risk reports that you send us are curated by your department, your office, the administration, their summaries. They are answers to a test that you've already graded yourself on. We are requesting and should be given the raw account level source data so we can independently verify summaries. If the data is identical, then what's the big deal? If we already have it and we're gonna see it, then what's the big deal? Why is it efficient for you to look at it, but it's redundant for us to look at it? I understand the pre-decisional drafts, let's resolve that, right? I only want read-only access. I understand that things are not finalized until they're finalized. it we're protecting your raw workspace but we should again you're blocking oversight is the way i see it and i understand how you know works it's um i get the you know i've had a conversation i actually reached out to iuna customer service and i had them walk me through how it works particularly the budget pro software that we use as a city And so I guess it's as a professional skeptic, which is my job, professional skepticism, I become increasingly skeptical about what is happening over the budget, over our revenues, over projections, when I can't see the entire picture. And I don't appreciate how, I don't appreciate being talked to, in a very condescending tone of voice, which has been happening the last several times we've had conversations, I know the work. I've done this work. You are talking to the former director of the state's government accountability office, where I worked with 187 municipalities, 86 counties, every single state agency, I understand accountability, transparency. I know what we need to do our jobs. And we are being prevented from getting that. And again, if you don't wanna do it, that's fine. I guess we'll just, I'll bog down the limited capacity resources that the department has by again, submitting an IPRO request every single day until I get the information that we need, because For seven consecutive years, the city carried material weakness flags on its bank reconciliation because we couldn't tie actual transactions back to the general ledger. Our auditors revealed that the administration was running closed loop analytical assumptions. Those are unexplained cash variances. And I'm not trying to be gotcha here. I'm trying to help you. We're trying to help you. It would be a lot easier if we could work together before April 1st to come to some sort of agreement on what our budget should look like. So again, I don't understand why we just can't get basic access to the systems that this city uses to ensure public trust with our public finances. Thank you. I have no questions. I'm good.

Thank you, Madam President. I just wanted to respond because I think our staff has worked multiple times in meetings to talk through the capabilities of the technology that we use. I think they've attempted to understand the requests. I think it's important for all of the counselors to understand that the meetings have been designed. Folks have shown up to participate in these discussions. And I also think, you know, it's important to note that you all passed an ordinance 9-0. There is a will of this city council that voted for something. And when our staff works on something, then as a result of that, to be asked by one counselor to override that They are not going to operate from that perspective of just changing the direction based upon that now we can have other discussions about what we want to do if the council that is the will of the council obviously and But I think to these folks are trying to respect that the budget ordinance that was passed set in motion when we would begin this work with you una access and You know we have a classified employee who is doing the best they can to make sure that they're in compliance with what we do what you all passed as a city and work with all of you and I want to make sure that we're in a position that no one is being defiant. They are trying to find a way to provide the information that is being asked for specifically. rather than it being a discussion around systems. And so I just think I need to be on the record that these folks have met, they are in these discussions, they are working with staff, and they are attempting to find the answers to a path forward.

Seeing no other questions, Councilor Tayes. Madam President, thank you, Dr. Stengel. Are you familiar with GASB 103 compliance? Are you familiar with Gatsby 103 compliance?

I am not a, I'm sorry, Madam President, Councillor Tejas, I'm not an accountant, nor am I in charge of that. I know our department is, and they fully understand their obligations under Gatsby.

Mr. Newell, are you familiar with Gatsby 103 compliance?

Council President and Councillor Tejas, I am.

Can you explain it to us?

I didn't know I was going to be quizzed. I mean, they're going to test fund balance. We've already had questions from our auditors like they normally do. If it is OK, I would like to, Council President, just respond to not providing access or limiting oversight, if that is OK.

to respond to, I didn't ask the question, so it would have to go to Councilor- Madam President, thank you, Director Sandoval.

That's okay. What I will tell you is GASB 103 is a standard budgetary comparison and reporting mandate. It is explicit that written disclosures of significant variances between original and final budgets must be the only tool capturing the continuous evolution of, and you know what? You want me to tell you something cool about ordinances? They can be amended. So, you know, I'm just going to say, you know, again, and also the other thing is it doesn't matter what the budget ordinance says, because we have a statute that says that this is public information. And again, if we can't get access to the information, if I can't there, if I can't independently verify it as a fiduciary with fiscal responsibility for oversight of the residents of Albuquerque's taxpayer dollars, then I'll just request, do IPRA requests every single day because the real-time tracking of the carry forward is important. The $11.8 million discrepancy was a roll-up calculation error. That was something that PeopleSoft and DSS did not map We could have seen it if we had read-only access to IUNA, but we didn't. And so we can fix all of these things. It can be done. It doesn't have to be an issue. I just don't understand why this administration is making it one.

Madam President, Councillor Diaz, just going back to the Gatsby 103, you did mention that it was explaining the variances between budget and actual, as well as the variances between original budget and final budget, and the way we will be addressing that as we already have a cleanup process. And in that process, we explain the variances. And so my department has been working with accounting to make sure that we have everything in the correct format to comply with GASB 103.

Thank you Mr. Noel, Madam President. Yes you did explain the variances but we were not able to independently verify it. Thank you.

Madam President, Councilor Tejas, the variances, that information does not exist in UNA. I get that you want access to UNA as explained. We are working according to the timeline in the ordinance to give you that access. But what you're looking for and what you think exists is not where you think it is.

Thank you. So are there any more questions from counselors? Seeing none, Councilor Graf.

I move receipt be noted.

Didn't we move it already? Did we move and second it?

No, we haven't done. Okay, so there's a motion and a second by Councilor Rogers for receipt be noted. Madam Clerk.

Councilor Baca?

Yes.

Councilor Besson?

Yes.

Vice President Champagne?

Yes.

Councilor Favelkorn? Yes. Councilor Graut? Yes. Councilor Lewis? Yes. Councilor Rogers? Yes. Councilor Taez? Yes. President Pena?

Yes.

Passes unanimously.

Councilor Graut, EC 214.

Madam President, EC 214 is approval and authorization of the grant application to FEMA from the Albuquerque Fire Rescue Department. And I do move approval, but I do have a couple of questions.

There's a motion and a second for approval by Councillor Rogers. Councillor Brown.

I'm so glad that you apply for this each year. Thank you. Will this reduce the amount of forced overtime at the lieutenant and captain levels?

Madam President, Councillor Grout, these positions, FEMA will only let us hire them at the firefighter rank. So it will add to our firefighter level staffing. It doesn't allow us to apply for positions at those ranks. Okay, thank you.

So do you plan to apply for this grant every year?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, we do apply for this grant every year. The last time that we received it, I was actually the grant writer, so it was quite a while ago. It was in 2019. And we were awarded 12 firefighters. It's a need-based grant, and it's very competitive with other fire departments, and we have not been awarded it in any of the previous years.

When do you expect to... Crossing fingers, when do you expect to hear?

Madam President, Councilor Grout, that is the million dollar question with FEMA. We sometimes, it takes a year to get a response on these grants.

Okay, if for some reason we don't get this grant in the future, how will you fund the extra staff?

Madam president counselor grout one of the solutions that we recently spoke about was the efforts that was made by the council with the public safety tax that Is a ballot measure in November and if that revenue comes in that would obviously help support our staffing levels So that is one solution there every year as we Line up our budget asks. I know I met with several of you pre budget where we talked about the importance of our float pool So we're we're always looking for grants. There's not a lot of staffing grants, but I think the ballot measure will will assist us Thank you. Appreciate the questions or the answers to my questions.

Thank you.

I'm in approval Counselor Baca

Yes.

Councillor Passan. Councillor Passan.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I'm sorry, I'm having some technical difficulties. Can you repeat that, please?

The Land Use Planning and Zoning Committee meeting on Wednesday, September 16th at 5 p.m. has been cancelled. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. We are now on to financial instruments. There are none. Now, item 11, appeals, and this is AC06 Jolin Maestas. Appellant appeals the zoning hearing examiner's decision to approve a permit while fence major on the front property line for the property located at 637 Solar Road Northwest Zone R1, and Mr. Victor Hall is here to explain the appeal.

Thank you, Council President. This is an appeal that concerns a permit application for a four-foot-tall perimeter fence with a 41 to 48-inch front setback on a 0.45-acre lot at 617 Solar Road Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87107. This is Council District 2, sort of the northern tip of it, and this is an interesting area of the city because it was described, I think, aptly as sort of a broken-tooth area in terms of zoning designations. There are multiple parcels that are city property, that are unincorporated property, then they're nestled right next to Los Ranchos property, which does play a little bit into the instant issue in this matter. The ZHE, the issue in this appeal is whether ZHE's approval of the fence permit should be upheld. The ZHE granted the permit, finding that the permit criterion pursuant to IDO section 14166H, sorry, 141666H3 was met. Specifically, ZHE noted that the lot is at least a half acre, the proposed wall would not be injurious to the adjacent properties surrounding neighborhood or larger community, and the wall design complies with the applicable standards in IDO section 141657. The appellant, JoLynn Maestas, appealed the approval of the walled permit, generally arguing that the ZHE erred in these concerns, specifically focusing on the setback, which to the appellant would create vehicular, pedestrian, and bicycle safety concerns. Additionally, the appellant argued that one of the elements of the permit scheme was not met, and that they disputed the ZHE's conclusion that the proposed fence will strengthen neighborhood character. This was referred to the LUHO, and a hearing was conducted, and the LUHO presented their proposed disposition to this council. Generally, the LUHO found that the ZHE's findings and approval of the offense in this matter were well supported with substantial evidence on the record. Turning to each, the LUHO focused on each of the different arguments raised by the appellate in this matter. First, turning to the obstruction argument. The LUHO emphasized that the fence that was being considered in this matter was described as a wire and bar fence that had some livestock influence to it, which would meet the transparency or lack of opacity requirements that would present an obstruction to folks who might be passing by as someone is reversing out of the property. The appellant's argument was only resting in Luho's decision that the subjective belief that the fence, any fence, would have that kind of view obstruction regardless of the setback or regardless of the opacity. Thus, the Luho did not weigh that decision as being supported by substantial evidence. As to the appellant's second argument, there are several different requirements under IDO 66H3. And if you're following along in the write-up that I provided, council staff provided, I do have to eat crow briefly. I have a typo, which is an important typo as to the review and decision criteria in 66H3A. One, it should say the lot is at least one half acre. The half is missing from the write up, my apologies. The LUHO emphasized that this review and decision criteria is disjunctive as to this first element. That means there are four different ways that 66H3A can be met. The first of which is that the lot is at least one half acre. The appellant was arguing in her appeal that one of the other elements, either three or four, which is regarding the surrounding area, 330 feet of the subject property, have a a certain number of properties within that radius have a side wall, a street side yard wall or fence over three feet and that finding was not found by the ZHE. LUHO emphasized that's immaterial for these purposes because those criteria for that first element are disjunctive and the lot being at least one half acre satisfies it. Now, there's a little bit of math here, and I'm an attorney, so please forgive me if I'm not. This is not my forte, but there is a distinction that needs to be made here, which is that the lot is not exactly one half acre. It is a .45 acre. However, under the IDO, there is an allowable deviation of up to 10%. Applying that allowable deviation, the lot satisfies the half-acre criterion, and the LUHO found that this finding then was not in error and was supported by substantial evidence. last the appellant argued that the proposed fence design contravenes the character of the neighborhood the luho found the appellant had not met her burden emphasizing that the lack of front yard fences in the surrounding area was not necessarily emblematic of the character or the manner demonstrating a neighborhood's character This area, like I alluded to earlier, has a variety of different kinds of properties, including unincorporated county, city, and boarding-less ranchos. And it was described on the record as being, quote, livestock-friendly and, quote, semi-rural agriculturally-oriented neighborhood. Testimony also on the record emphasized that the applicant was seeking to use this property for keeping livestock, specifically horses. So, taking those two pieces together, LUHO found that the ZHE's implicit finding on the point that if this area has a livestock, semi-rural, agriculturally oriented bend, and the fence would have the characteristics of, in fact, holding livestock, that it would necessarily then meet the character that is being described. Overall, Luho recommended the City Council deny the appeal and uphold the ZHE's approval of the fence and wall major permit. Luho prepared eight proposed findings in support of this recommendation. At this stage, this is an accept or reject, and I stand for questioning.

Thank you Madam President.

Just kind of curious the half acre I just did the math. This means it was less than the 10 percent fudge factor there. So it sounds like that didn't actually work or didn't actually count. Am I doing that right.

Uh, councilor president, councilor Baca, I think, uh, that the, at least the findings of what was, uh, described by city planning emphasize that it was within the 10%. It might be a 10% down from the half acre. So it would be an allowance of. Point I would be an allowance of point five I believe from the math is actually point nine.

So it sounds like that's off neighborhood character. If I just go off the pictures here that looks like single family zoning that does not look rural or agriculture to me. And here it says there's no fences in that neighborhood. My personal opinion on fences depends on, I got my own personal opinion, but if character of the neighborhood is a criteria, which it is, then putting a fence in a neighborhood that has zero fences would definitely be out of character. So that's three things right there. Madam President, I would move to reject the Uho recommendation and go to a full hearing.

Second. So there's a motion in the second by Councillor Fiebelkorn to reject the Lujo recommendations and. And have a full hearing. OK. Any additional questions. No. Do you want to close on it.

Or just.

Madam Clerk.

Councillor Baca.

Yes.

Councillor Brisson.

Yes.

Vice President Champagne.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Thank you. We are now on AC07. The Yale Village Neighborhood Association and D. Loves Restaurants LLC appellant appeals the zoning hearing examiner's decision to approve a conditional use for overnight shelter for the property located at 2300 Yale Boulevard SE, zoned NRLM. Mr. Paul.

Right here. Madam President, councillors, I'll briefly introduce this matter, and then I need to make a little bit of a statement on some procedural points that we've seen arise in this matter, just as a precaution to the council before they hear argument from the parties.

As we recall... Maybe we should swear everyone in since you're already... Yeah, okay. So all presenters other than attorneys must be sworn in. Do you affirm under penalty of perjury that your testimony today will be true? So whoever is going to speak today, please raise your hand. And so do you affirm under penalty of perjury that your testimony will be true? I do affirm. Okay. Thank you so much. Mr. Hall.

Council President, Councilors, this is AC 2607. As we recall from the last council meeting, this appeal concerns a conditional use application for an overnight shelter use at 23 Yale Boulevard, southeast of New Mexico, 87106. This is on the very western edge of Council District 6. This comes to us after three different ZHE hearings in which, after the conclusion of those three, the ZHE approved a conditional use permit with additional conditions, 19 specifically, after which the Yale Village Neighborhood Association and Delove's Restaurants appealed the ZHE's approval of the conditional use permit. Council referred this appeal to its land use hearing officer and the land Luho recommended in the proposed disposition that the Kansas City Council deny in part and grant in part the appellant's appeal. As a preliminary matter, Luho concluded that Yale Village Neighborhood Association did not have standing to appeal the ZHE's decision. But more so on the merits, the LUHO found that while the applicant had met their elements for the conditional use permit and the appellant had not met their burden of proof to show that the ZHE erred, the LUHO also concluded, though, that some of these conditions and recommended that some of these conditions should be met on a faster timeline than the ZHE's previously imposed year-long period to obtain compliance, hence why this appeal was partially granted. At the past City Council meeting, the City Council voted 9-0 to reject the legal recommendations and hold a full hearing on this matter, the procedure for which is as follows. The arguments will be structured thusly. There will be eight minutes for presentation from the appellant, 10 minutes from the party opponent of the appeal, in this case the applicant, three minutes presentation by or response to questions by city planning, and then two minutes for rebuttal by appellant followed by deliberation and discussion amongst counselors. I pause briefly before we get into this to emphasize that under the IDEO and under our council rules of procedure, the city council should not accept new evidence and shall make its final decision based solely on the evidence in the record at the close of Luke's hearing and the oral argument of the parties. We received substantial communications from the parties in this matter trying to introduce new evidence either by testimony from commenters or by additional documentary evidence which we've advised is not proper and we have not added into the record. However, I would urge this council to be in compliance with the IDO and with our rules of procedure to avoid any new evidence or new testimony that is not an argument of the parties and is not contained within the record.

Okay, so we will get started. Everyone who said they will be speaking today has been sworn in, so we are gonna start with a presentation from the appellant.

Yes, hello. My name is John Love. I'm gonna speak on behalf of Deep Love Restaurants. Back in October, we noticed a huge increase in our neighborhood. It started to look a little bit like East Central. Shoes on power lines, drug use in the neighborhood, crime in the neighborhood, trash all over the place. Um, the love restaurant had a restaurant East central, so familiar with existing things that happened while for house up on central and tramway. So we've seen this before. Um, so we didn't know what was going on, where it was coming from. We contact the city and that's when we found out that there was. We don't even know what it is to this day. Is it a counseling center? Is it a rehab center? We don't know. It's been many different versions through the city on what this is. It feels to us it's whatever it fits for the city to make this happen. I'm going to let Mr. Lee step up and kind of talk about our IDO concerns. and go from there.

Thank you, Madam President and Commission.

Councilor President, I'm sorry to interject. This gentleman is not a party to this matter. The IDO and our council rules of procedure are very specific. The oral argument must be of parties. This would constitute someone who is not a party arguing on behalf of a party in this matter. And we haven't seen an entry of appearance that would designate him as someone who is able to do so. This is exactly the kind of entrance or at least attempt to circumvent the IDO in our council rules of procedure that I just warned about.

I disagree. I am a member of the Yale Association.

But you weren't part of the appeal, correct, Mr. Hall? Council President. Because he is part of the neighborhood association. It's the neighborhood association who appealed. I mean, I don't want to get too technical, but I want to make sure we're all right.

And that's a council president. I have two concerns with this. First of all, the Lujos proposed recommendation was that the Yale Village Neighborhood Association did not have standing because they did not comply with the petition requirements that are within the IDO. Second of all, we do not know and we have not received any information that this man is an agent of the neighborhood association, even presuming that he is standing to proceed. So those are my concerns with this, and I think if the council were to be cautious in this matter, it would be appropriate to stick very strictly to the bounds of the IDO and to our council rules of procedure.

Madam President and City Councilors, my testimony will show that I believe that the that the land use hearing officer aired, made inaccurate statements, as well as the approval of the conditional use.

So we just can't allow, we'll have to have this Mr. John speak. I'm sorry.

Well, he could speak right there. Stop right there.

Okay. I mean, I just want to say this is what we struggled with throughout this whole ordeal. I oppose the approval of the conditional use for overnight shelter and I support the appeal before you. In addition, as a side matter, for the past year there has been more than crime and vandalism in the neighborhood. I believe the zoning hearing examiner erred in the decision and granted the conditional use approval in the land use hearing officials report has items that are not accurate. The applicant failed to follow the procedure in applying for conditional use. Per the IDO Section 6 procedures summary table, there is an extensive public notice process that was required for conditional appeal. Four out of five of those items were not followed. There was no neighborhood notification. at all. According to the City Albuquerque Land Use Appeal under the IDO Appeal number AC-26-07, the document states that this is an appeal of a May 6, 2026 final decision of the zoning hearing examiner who approved a conditional use application for overnight sheltered land use. On page 2, second paragraph, it goes on to say that the planning staff determined that the use was an overnight shelter used under the IDO. Per the IDO definitions cited below, it is my opinion that the use best fits definition of a group home which does not fall within the permissible use of the IDO zone district. NR-LM non-residential light manufacturing zoning district. We've stumbled through this with the city zoning department. We can't get an accurate answer. We never were put on notice about this that this was coming, right? We had to find out for ourself. Okay. The applicant took ownership of the property and started to house people before submitted the conditional use application. And that is a violation of the law. On page eight of the land use hearing officials report, it states that the ZHE concluded the nearest of the law. On page eight of the land use hearing officials report, it states that the ZHE concluded the nearest rail together. This is what I wrote.

So he has to point it out to you?

No, I just need to go from page to page. We had a presentation to go on, but you guys said we can't present it. So I'm sorry about that. Thank you, Madam President. So I'll start back up. On page eight of the land use hearing official report, it states that the ZHE concluded the nearest residential neighborhood is really unfair. It's really unfair to go a year through this and not have our voice because at the time we didn't have 30% or 90% of signatures from the neighborhood. There's a lot of things that goes on here that if you're a poor community, you're not going to survive because you can't hire attorneys to come and go through all this process to see what am I missing here, what am I missing here, a signature here. It's totally unfair. And I just want to let you guys know that.

Thank you. So we are taking time, right? So next we have a presentation of the party opponent of the appeal. Of the appeal.

Good evening, council president and members of the city council. My name is Dr. Karan Mahajan. I'm a physician, board certified in internal medicine and addiction medicine. I'm the founder and CEO of Empower Health Services. I have been practicing medicine in the state of New Mexico from August 2015. Thank you for giving me the opportunities to speak with you about Empower Health Services and our program at 2300 Year Boulevard Southeast in the month of recovery. Empower Health Services is a New Mexico-based behavioral health startup organization dedicated to helping individuals struggling with substance use disorder, reducing homelessness in our community by providing wraparound services. Our mission is to help vulnerable individuals achieve lasting recovery, regain independence, and successfully reintegrate into the community. Tonight, I want to focus on three things. The process we follow with the city, the work we are doing for Albuquerque, the action we have taken in response to concern from our neighbors. First of all, our history with the city. I believe it is very important for the council to understand that we did not begin operations without doing our due diligence. Before opening, we sought the required approval from New Mexico Health Care Authority, also conducted city staff specifically to determine whether our proposed program required a zoning change. This point is especially important because the current hearing notices states the applicant had been operating the property as an overnight shelter for several months based on alleged incorrect advice from unidentified city staff. I respectfully want to clarify the record.

I'm sorry to jump in once again. To clarify to the specificity that would be required would... implicate the introduction of materials that are outside the record proper. Mr. Mahajan can testify to the existence of that misconception, which was testified to at the Luho hearing, but respectfully, if we're gonna stick to the letter of the rule, we can't go any farther than that as to any sort of corroborating information as to that point.

So I'll just briefly mention, we reach out to the city official to ask if we need any kind of zoning change. We have in writing which says, From a zoning perspective, no additional requirement was identified.

I apologize for jumping in again. This would be just another effort to try to essentially backdoor that email in. The applicant has testified as to what was corroborated, what he testified to at the Lou Ho hearing, which is that it was predicated on incorrect information from the city. that is where it must lie, if we're to stick to the rule, the letter of the rule.

You got that, sir.

I understand. So we relied on the guidance in good faith. We have previously disclosed this correspondence during the zoning proceeding and submitted it as a part of the record. We received our intensive outpatient program approval from New Mexico Health Care Authority on October 29, 2025, and began operations on November 1, 2025. In December 2025, city officials subsequently advised us that a temporary supportive living component of our program required a conditional use permit. We submitted the required application and worked diligently with city officials to come into compliance. We then participated in three zoning hearing examiner proceeding. We presented information about our program, answered questions, and responded to the concerns. The city also facilitated mediation through Mr. Philip Crump. We participated in that process and prepared a detailed presentation describing the measures we were taking to address neighborhood concern. Unfortunately, the parties raising the concern did not participate in that mediation session. We also demonstrated that the distance from the relevant edge of our property to the nearest residential neighborhood is approximately 337 feet exceeding the 300 foot separation reference in the applicable city requirement our After this extensive process, our conditional use permit was approved with conditions. We relied in good faith on the city process and the season while continuing to invest some essential resources in the property, our employees, security, and patient services. The conditional use of the season was subsequently appealed. We submitted our extensive policy and procedures, internal document for LUHO to review to reinstate the thoroughness that went into starting the program. After additional proceedings on August 18, 2016, the City Council rejected the LUHO recommendation and remanded the matter for another hearing. We respect the City process and the right of neighboring businesses and residents to raise legitimate concerns. At the same time, I respectfully ask the Council to recognize that Empower has consistently engaged with the City, appeared at the required proceedings, provided requested information, and made substantial operational changes in response to concerns. Next part, what Empower Health Services actually does. I also want to explain what actually happens at 2300 Yale because the nature of our work is critically important. Empower Health Services treats individuals struggling with substance use disorder, many of whom also have experienced homelessness, unemployment, medical problems, family disruption, and significant social instability. We operate intensive outpatient program for substance use disorder. For eligible participants who do not have a safe place to live, we provide temporary recovery supported living with two meals a day at no cost while participating in the program. This is not a traditional rental operation. The purpose is treatment, recovery, stabilization, and transition toward independent living. We help patients connect with identification services, healthcare, employment, transportation, and permanent housing. We provide transportation at no cost for primary care, dental, and other necessary appointments. Our long-term vision is to integrate addiction treatment behavior health care, primary care, psychiatric care, and recovery support so vulnerable patients do not cycling between homelessness, emergency departments, shelters, incarceration, and untreated addiction. What have the results been so far? Consulates, I believe we should ultimately be judged not only by what we say, but what our patients accomplish. We have now celebrated five IOP graduations. More than 40 individuals who were experiencing homelessness have moved into housing after becoming financially stable. More than 90 patients have started jobs after entering our program. We have statistics we'll be more than happy to share. More than 10 families have also been reunited with their children after participants successfully progressed through treatment and worked with CYFD.

Council President, I have not, I do not, looking through the record right now, do not find documentation that supports these statistics. So I would ask that that portion of the argument be Not considered by the council.

We I have mentioned the same thing in Lujo.

Excuse me. I'm speaking. Sorry That's what I was asking just because it sounded like it was new information Okay, I have mentioned the same in for me information in Lujo proceeding as well.

I'm not chain any of that These are not simply Sorry my apologies

Council President, we don't have the LUCO transcript in front of us to judge specifically the extent of what is being said in regards to these statistics. There were deliverables that were discussed or there was objectives that were discussed, but I do not recall specifically to the specificity that is being detailed here at this time. And I would urge the council to err on the side of caution in regards to what is contained within the record and what is not.

These are not simply statistics. These are people who are homeless now have a home. People who are unemployed and are now working. Parents rebuilding relationship with their children, people who are struggling with their addiction, who are now participating in treatment, rebuilding their life. This is a work taking place at 2300 Yale. Now I move on to neighborhood concerns. I also want to directly address a concern expressed by our neighbors. I understand why surrounding businesses and residents care deeply about safety, loitering, cleanliness, and the overall environment around their properties. At the same time, I respectfully ask that we distinguish between problems occurring throughout the broader Yale corridor and conduct that can actually be attributed to Empower Health Services or our patients. Our organization should absolutely be held responsible, accountable for what occurs on our property and for the conduct of our program. But it will not be fair to attribute every person experiencing homelessness, every instance of loitering or every public safety concern in the surrounding area to empower simply because we serve a vulnerable population. When concerns were brought to us, we acted. We completed Fencing along the property, we proceeded to install 20 additional security cameras to increase surveillance and accountability. We added additional overnight security officer from 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. We strengthened property monitoring, internal accountability, documented a deep condition in surrounding areas, including the nearby bus stop. These measures require significant resources.

Excuse me, sir. So I'm going to stop you because we have the transcript and we're not seeing a lot of the stuff that's in here. I'm not saying that it's not accurate. We're not finding a lot of the things that you're saying. So if you can just stick to what's in the record, appreciate it.

Thank you. These measures require significant resources, but we made this investment because we want our neighbors to feel safe. Our response has never been that this is not our problem. Our response has been, what can we reasonably do to make this better? And we will continue to take that approach. The larger question here, the Albuquerque continues to struggle with addiction and homelessness, affecting our hospitals, law enforcement, businesses, families, and communities. If we agree these are serious problems, we must also support reasonable places where people can receive treatment and recover. These programs have to exist somewhere. The question should be, how do we provide effective treatment while protecting the surrounding community? I believe we can do both with appropriate security, accountability, and communication. Treatment access and neighborhood safety can coexist while giving the people opportunity to recover and rebuild their lives. Our request, Councilors, Empower Health Services is not asking for special treatment. We are asking for a fair, consistent, and fact-based process that considers our approval, cooperation with the city, significant investment in safety, and most importantly, the measurable outcomes of the people we serve. Substance use disorder is a treatable medical condition. We respectfully ask the city to allow us to continue helping people move from addiction to recovery, homelessness to housing, and unemployment to work, while holding us accountable as a safe, responsible neighbor. Recovery is possible. Hope is real. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much. No applause. No applause. So now we have three minutes presentation or response to questions by city planning staff.

Yes, Madam President and Councillors, I'm Shannon Halley with the Planning Department. As you know, this is a request for conditional use for overnight shelter in an NRLM zone district. The zoning hearing examiner did hear this on three separate occasions. And then after a facilitated meeting with the neighborhood association and after receiving recommended conditions of approval from multiple city departments, The ZHE approved the request, adopting 19 additional conditions to mitigate anticipated impacts. The IDO requires conditions of approval to be implemented within one year of the decision. We support reducing the time for the conditions to be implemented to 60 days, and we believe that the owner and operators are sufficiently motivated and willing to get these in place quickly. While this use may not be welcomed by the neighbors, it is a needed civic use. If the owner falls out of compliance with the conditions of approval, this will be subject to code enforcement and a needed civic use. If the owner falls out of compliance with the conditions of approval, this will be subject to code enforcement and...

Discrimination, you know, on the federal law. What he described is a group home. What the IDO has said is an overnight shelter. IDO has approved that to read that, but that's what our argument was from the beginning, that this is not an overnight shelter, this is a group home. That's always been our concern. The city went through extensive entitlement process of several years to get the Gateway Center open. We didn't say anything about the Gateway. We took it for what it is. The city did a good job. They told her what was going on. We had told us everything that was going to happen before it happened. To get the gateway open and then to have a facility approved without following the rules and regulations, that's not fair. That's not fair. It clearly shows that the ZHE erred in facts and that the applicant was not supported by the required public notice. It's not fair. For us in this community, we didn't have the issues we're having now, council members. We're seeing a lot of crime. Our kids can't catch the bus to school. We have to drive them. The commission of the blind, and it's on record, the commission of blind has stopped. They stopped doing procedures, and now they close their doors.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

So before I go to counselors for questions, I just want to ask, about the distinction between a group home and an overnight shelter. Because if the permit is based on an overnight shelter... Madam President, could you swear me in?

I didn't think I would have to speak.

Do you affirm under penalty of perjury that your testimony today will be true?

I do. So Madam President counselors the definition of a group home excludes anyone protected by the federal Fair Housing Act the protected class of the federal Fair Housing Act says that anyone in a recovery program is protected so they become someone who is disabled and that is exclusively taken out of our definition of group home in the idea. If it was. A protected home like that, we would call it a community residential facility in the integrated development ordinance, and that's limited to 19 individuals, so they would not have met the definition for either a community residential facility or a group home. The closest definition that we have for what they're doing in this particular property is overnight shelter, hence this use.

Thank you. Counselors, questions, motions? Counselor Rogers.

Thank you. I just have a question for the applicant. Thank you for being here. Just a couple questions. You mentioned substance abuse disorders, intensive outpatient, and temporary housing. Can you tell me exactly what your substance abuse disorder treatment entails?

Yes, so we operate intensive, Councilor, Madam President, Councilor Rogers, we operate intensive outpatient program for substance use disorder only, no mental health. Patient who is struggling with substance use disorder They either get referred to us or by word of mouth they come to us. Then we do assessment on them. Our counselors do assessment and then they determine a patient qualify for intensive outpatient program. We have committees for workers. We have CCSS who help them navigate their day-to-day routine. In the intensive outpatient program, they have to participate three hours of intensive outpatient program which is part of the recovery every day, five days a week. And it's mediated by the counselors who are either LADAC or LSAA who can do this.

And that all happens, Madam President, thank you, that all happens on site?

Yes, yes. So I have been doing it, sorry.

That's okay. What kind of treatment specifically, methadone, suboxone, what are you offering for treatment?

No, no, we do not offer any medication over there. I said it's only intensive outpatient program for substance use disorder. We are not a dispensing unit. We don't dispense any medication.

Okay. Do you have a clinical, as the MD, are you the clinical supervisor or who serves in that role, medical director? Sorry? Who serves as your medical director? Clinical supervisor?

Yeah, so for this kind of program, you need a clinical supervisor who oversees a counselor's role, and we have a clinical supervisor, yes.

Okay, who's your clinical supervisor?

Ms. Cheryl Johanson.

I see her doing this in the audience. Okay, thank you. And then you said temporary housing. That's not overnight shelter. So tell me about what you do for temporary housing. If it's outpatient, what I understand from my medical background, not an MD, but outpatient means they don't live on site. So when you're saying temporary housing and not shelter, tell me about the housing portion.

Yes, absolutely. So I have been addiction medicine, especially from last six years. It's the most gratifying work I have done. I have seen a lot of time when you're treating people with addiction, substance use disorder, the homelessness and the transportation are the biggest barriers for them to get better. People are not born homeless, people are not born with substance use disorder, it doesn't help. That was a big barrier. That's where the temporary housing component came into picture, who is homeless and need help with our program, they can stay in the property for the time they're doing the intensive outpatient program and also the aftercare. So we get them, do our best to get them back reintegrated into the society. So they don't, it is a knock cost to them. We bear that cost. They only have to participate in the intensive outpatient program.

Thank you, I'm asking about the housing. How long do you house people there? How often, how long is their stay there? You said temporary housing, so what does temporary mean?

Yeah, so generally the intensive outpatient program runs from 16 to 19 weeks. It also depends on the counselor, if counselor feel like particular patient need longer time. It's on their discretion. They can stay for longer. Once they graduate from intensive outpatient program, then we also have aftercare. Aftercare where we give them, show them life learning skills, get them a job ready, help them with their resume so they can stay another three to four months there.

So it's unclear how long they stay there?

No, it's clear. It's from time you enter. It's from that to six to nine months max.

Six to nine months is temporary housing. Okay. I'm just comparing based on your application and based on what you're saying. So I'm just trying to reconcile. And then thank you. I have a couple questions for our planning department now. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for coming back up to answer some more questions. We heard from testimony that they were under the impression they didn't need a permit. Now, a simple look up, I can't do that because it's not in the record, so just be clear, following what's in the record. Um, but it's very clear what you would need a permit for in operating this type of business. So when someone calls you and says, Hey, we're going to do this thing in this place, do I need a permit? What is your process?

If it's when you get that kind of question, uh, Madam president, councilor Rogers. Um, typically we would look at the zoning map, see what their zoning is. Ask them about the use, try to look at the use table in the integrated development ordinance. I will say this use in particular is challenging. As you said, temporary six to nine months of living and an overnight shelter don't exactly line up perfectly. There's no perfect fit for the use that's described compared to this. So staff did make an error in this. In this case and that staff member is no longer with the planning department, but mistakes do get made when we find them we Go out and do the code enforcement action to say you're operating without the correct approvals and usher them into the process when that happens Neighbors property owners within 100 feet do get notice of that application and have the opportunity as the appellants did to participate in the hearing process.

Thank you, Madam President. I'd like to make a motion, but I have one question for the appellant. OK, sure. Before I make my motion, I'll thank you for reminding the other counselors my questions too. Thank you so much for being here, sir. Just question. Based on the findings and the conditions, the 19 conditions, if the operator was able to meet those conditions in a faster timeline, say 60 days, would that be reasonable to you as just wanting to ask that question?

We moved to grant the appeal and deny the permit. The applicant and the city have both shown They're incapable of handling this. There's errors at our expense in our community, right? The applicant put a fence up already, didn't go through permit, didn't go through zoning, and actually put the fence up on our property. So now we have to go through a civil suit to try to get the fence fixed. There's been a lot of errors in this, a lot of errors in this. And the applicant just continues to do whatever he wants to do.

This information about a pending suit or about what's happened since the Lou Ho's decision is outside the record. Okay.

Sorry. I could say defense was in that conversation, and he did put a fence up. Yeah.

Thank you, Madam President. The fence is in the record. The fence is up. Thank you for the abundance of caution. Our team is just making sure.

But the fence is up. It was in the IDO. It was suggested by the city to put this fence up. The fence is up, but we never received a permit issue or permit concern or anything like that.

Thank you.

All right.

That's it for my questions.

Council Lewis. Council Lewis.

Thank you, Madam President. So I guess I want to discuss the Yale Village Neighborhood Association. I understand that, I mean, it looks like they were out as far as specifically on this appeal that they weren't notified because they're beyond the 650 feet, correct? Is that correct? Or they don't have. I guess the Lou home made an opinion as far as standing in regard to that.

That's correct. A council president Councillor Lewis. Yes the Lou home made a determination as to whether they had standing based off of whether they had the required

Petition and finding no petition in the record proper not one that was testified to so not not the distance but on whether they followed the process as far as Enough, you know people to qualify to have standing councillor president councillor president councillor Lewis.

That's correct

okay so um but they were they were mentioned you know on the record by the planning department you know previously i mean previous to the to the the permit request for the zone change um there were com sounds like there were conversations with the planning department You know with the yellow neighborhood association village village neighborhood association and So I guess in that regard for this hearing is it fair to be able to talk about those conversations? You know with the planning department and and I mean it's on the record that those conversations happened And those meetings happened I'd like to know from the Planning Department and even from the Yale Village Neighbor Association, again, because they were, I think they were, they're on the record, you know. It was mentioned by the Planning Department. I think it would be fair to hear from them based on that alone, aside from whether or not they have, you know, standing on the appeal or not.

Councillor, President, Councillor Lewis, there were representatives of the neighborhood association that did have testimony at the ZHE hearings, so they would be able to testify and argue based on that information. The caution that I previously indicated was just on the matter of complying with the IDEO. If this council wishes to accept their testimony, nonetheless, that is a risk that this council will have to make.

Well, I would apply that to whether they have standing to be a part of the appeal. So regardless of whether they're a part of the appeal, as a named part of the appeal, I think the LUVO has a point there. I mean, we wanted to comply with the... But just for testimony in a hearing like this, because they're on the record in the ZHE as well as the planning department mentioned conversations with them. So I'd like to hear from the planning department on what those meetings were like, what was the feedback from those meetings from the neighbor association at a time when this facility was operating in a way that they weren't zoned for before the fences came up and everything else.

Madam President Council Lewis as far as I know there were no meetings with the neighborhood association when before they applied for the conditional use. So it was a staff counter conversation about here's something I want to do. What kind of approvals do I need. one staff member who's no longer with the planning department gave that advice.

You mentioned about some meetings with the neighborhood association. What were those meetings?

I believe what I said was that once they applied for the conditional use they have to give notice to the neighborhood association. And during the ZHE hearings they can attend and give evidence.

Since it's it's on the record. It's just furthering the I mean I've been arrested just hearing more from their perspective on what they What they said before the Zhe?

Council president comes loose. I apologize for not understanding the depth of your question beforehand But now I think we've gone through it a little more I have a better understanding of what you're specifically asking the the where I am advising the council and where I'm getting a little hung up on I think is that the rule specifically in the IDO if we look at six for you three e six uh the council shall not accept new evidence and shall make its decision based solely on the evidence in the record the close of lujo's hearing and this is the important part the oral arguments of the parties so if it's there's a dispute as to whether one entity is a party then out of abundance of caution that's where our our recommendation comes in at the council not hear that argument from that party

Well, so I've seen the, I guess the arguments or the testimony of the neighbor association for the, and that is on the record. I'm just wondering how, I mean, I'd like to hear it publicly, you know, like in a hearing like this. I mean, if we can't, I mean, or maybe there's no one here to, I think there are people here that would, be able to, you know, maybe that were at the ZH hearing that testified here, I mean, wouldn't that be appropriate that they would, we would, you know, give them an opportunity? But I, you know, I mean, maybe it's because of this type of hearing, it's specifically with the appellants. I mean, but, I mean, we've had the ability, I guess, before to hear from the, you know, hear from others in that regard if they're on the record.

Council President, Council Lewis, the form of these hearings are extremely strict in this regard, which is why we're stuck. There is a possibility if this council were to motion to remand that maybe that decision could be discussed again or more information could be put on the record that might alter some of those concerns, but that would have to be a decision of the council.

Okay. Well, then I'll just comment on it. I think, you know, even just this hearing, I think we really towed the line. I mean, obviously the council's done or attorney's done the best we could to bring that in. But I do think it's been heavily skewed. I think this hearing has been heavily skewed in regard to the applicant, you know. And with you know, some some leeway again not not because we allowed it but because it happened And and that I don't think reflects, you know, truly what's on the record, you know when it comes to decisions made by the planning department and To almost fit in, you know the right type of a zoning. Let's let's fit it in according to what they're already doing The real the real damage, you know, I think too That's been kind of you know brushed off, you know to the neighboring you know restaurants and you know community and So, you know, I'm concerned about that, but I would I would make the motion to to grant the appeal

There's a motion and a second by Committee of the Whole Chair.

There's a motion and a second by Committee of the Whole Chair Grout to grant the appeal and adopt findings. So is there any discussion on that? Councillor Rogers.

Yes I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly to grant the appeal and adopt findings means we the decision of the Z H E will be reversed and the conditional use that use permit would be denied and pursuant to new findings adopted now or at a later meeting. I'm understanding this correctly. So that means this body would need to work together in the next till our next council meeting to adopt new findings or. Staff will.

OK. Councillor Baca.

Madam president thank you. I know we have to take a vote but I had a couple of questions and I can ask those questions prior to the vote.

It has to be germane to the motion though correct. It has to be germane to the so no if it's not and if it's germane to the motion.

Well Madam President I was going to make a motion I said I was going to make a motion but then other councillors had questions I thought we were going to finish questions before we start motioning.

We were in the process of questions but a councillor can make a motion while they're yeah so. So then no councillor Baca? No. Okay.

Madam President, I mean the motion I think is, I would say any discussion on the entire appeal would be germane to the motion.

That's not, is that correct? Would you say that's correct? Victor's looking at me like it's not. I say that it's not because then we can open up discussion about anything for anything, so.

Council President, I defer to your judgment.

OK, which I said we can talk about anything and nothing.

So I'm sorry. What was the conclusion on that?

So no, we have to. It has to be germane to the motion.

But I I mean, I guess we'll see what the discussion is. But Madam President, I would imagine that. Anything and everything regarding this appeal would be a germane to a reno emotion of approval or denial. I mean whether whether a motion was made for approval or denial I mean you know I mean that was that's the obvious motion.

So Councillor Lewis I mean we were talking and kind of to what Councillor Rogers alluded to that she would make a motion after the discussion. So once you made a motion it stopped all discussion and now we are on the discussion of the motion.

And, Madam President, I would agree with that. I just, I don't think that's limited to any matter of the appeal with the motion on the table of granting the appeal.

Okay. Vice President Champagne and then Councillor Baca.

Thank you, Madam President. So, again, just to clarify, by granting the appeal, we're going to

Can you just explain to me by granting the appeal? Councillor President, Councillor Champagne, granting the appeal would fall under the third option, which would be council grant the appeal. The decision of the ZHE would be reversed. The conditional use permit would be denied.

and new findings would be adopted at a the next meeting okay with that being said madam president i do have a question for the applicant then that is germane to what this is no no sorry sorry we are now just talking about the the motion and the motion is to grant the appeal and adopt the findings.

Madam president can I just. I would ask her.

I'm just to grant the appeal and adopt the findings.

Madam president can I just. I would ask her.