P&z Meeting - Regular Meeting

involved. Okay. As far as right now for the that property. What's that? Who owns the property where Seol Avenue is? That's a sub subdivision. So So Mrs. Palmer owns the shaded area. She owns that lot in the subdivision. Okay. That lot doesn't include seminal. No, those those are 50 foot rideways in the subdivision. Okay. Not listed as part of the subdivision lots. They're private streets within the subdivision. They're they are dedicated on the subdivision plat as to the public.

Dedicated to the public on They are dedicated to the public. Yes. But but it doesn't say for the use of county road or anything like that. It just says dedicated to the public. So, it's dedicated but not accepted by the county because like you said there's they're name streets and not numbers or letters. Yeah. So, I mean the the plat obviously is outdated. Mhm. Okay. So, basically the the plat map without any names on it, those 50 foot rideaways are dedicated. Doesn't matter what they were called namewise 50 years ago,

but it's already been dedicated. The property's already been dedicated for the for whatever. So, well, you have you have private you can have private roads within the subdivision like the like the bluffs that are just up on 7th Avenue. Those are all private streets within the subdivision. Uh even though you have an infrastructure belonging to the city of Cortez, water, sewer, but there's private, the asphalt's private, the curb and gutters are private. Yep. Y but uh the applicant is stating that on the plat for that it's uh it's uh shown as public. Is that what you said?

Yeah, dedicated to the public. Okay. Just uh out of curiosity uh as a uh fallback plan, this other road that comes off of F that you said was difficult, can it be made workable if there's for some reason that a lot of dollars to to build across? It's a giant ravine on the southerntherly and the westerly boundary. That's a giant ravine. Oh, okay. So it's it's unpassable. Yes. and and to to access it on that that road that I have drawn in there going around the westerly boundary. It it crosses that ravine and it's a steep grade and

not uh not not practical passable only by a four-wheeler, a tractor or you know you can you can drive a pickup through there but if it's muddy or the weather's bad or or anything like that it's it's a pretty steep incline. Yeah. Okay. Not not not not practical for for future development of parcels. So I'm I'm going to go forward. I'll be voting with the assumption in mind that this Seol Avenue is uh possible access to the acreage above.

Right. It's so it doesn't have a name on the county road map or GIS map, but Kyoa is now 23.75. The center road there is 23.6. And and I'm thinking that in the center of that that private road coming off of Highway 491 in the center come down a little bit down down down. Yep. Right there. That would be if if that is truly a public um rightaway then why not access it from there to the to the to the big lot. That would be the the plan in that would be the plan. Yeah.

Okay. So I think all the commissioners here So for right now you can access the egg land. Well yeah future development. Yeah. They're going to have to do we're looking in in advance because you can't have an easement on your own property. So until that property changes hands, then you're going to be required to give them get an easement. And I'm sure that's going to be a condition of our vote. I'll make I'll make that a condition. Whether it comes in off of those private streets or it comes in off that whoop-dedoo. However there's an access, there's going to have to be an easement for the large piece of property.

Of course. And and that's why I'm assuming that being dedicated as a dedicated to the public to me I practically think that that is the easement to get in there. So but the the county doesn't maintain that right now. No. Okay. So it's so it is private. They're private. They just haven't been accepted as a dedicated road yet. Well, they were when the plat was signed and accepted. Well, then why isn't the county maintaining them? Because they're subdivision roads. Every red road on the That's what I'm saying. They're private roads. Yep. Then they're private roads.

Private roads dedicated to the public use to to the Well, public would be under quotes because it would be the You and I can go drive on them. The the the use of people that live in that subdivision. Yes, people can. That means public. Public is the public. You and I can go drive on those roads. Yes. Yes, we can. Yeah. That doesn't mean we're going to maintain them or the county is going to maintain them. Every red road on the county GIS map is non-county maintained. Right. Right. And we don't know who owns them. We don't know who maintains them. Red roads. Well, you can Well, you you're looking at the map. Part of them are red and part of them are nothing.

Okay. Well, I just Those are lines. Those are just lines. Well, I mean, you're looking at 55 years ago. So, I mean, they're they're not green and they're not red. These are just lines. So, if that if that road comes across is a public road, then that's going to be their that could be that could become an easement for them to get across. Yes. Whether they have to purchase it or whatever, that's up to them because they'll have to cross that property line. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think everybody here has that same question regarding access.

Okay. We're going to open this up for public comment. Anybody wishing to um have a say, come to the podium, please. Okay. Seeing none, we're going to close it and bring it back to the commissioners. I'll entertain a motion.

Yep. Uh I'll make a motion to recommend to the board of county commissioners to approve a proposed single lot development and AR3 to9 resoning application submitted by Sharon Palmer, agent Brian Mclofflin based on the following. The proposed use is in conformity with the code. The proposed use should not generate any significant im uh adverse impacts on other property in the area and public utilities and services are available or can be made available to support us is consistent with the proposed zoning and the condition is that future access to the 35 plus acres is dedicated through an easement. Okay,

I'll second. We have a second. Okay. I will also add that a condition that those C dot comments be adhered to. Okay. Okay. If we have no further discussion, we call for a vote. Commissioner Hernandez. I. Commissioner Armstrong. Hi. Commissioner Nurgard. Hi. Commissioner Lynch. I. Commissioner Doyle. I.

Okay. Motion carried. It was unanimous. Good luck. There you go. Okay. Roll call. Commissioner Hernandez here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Negard here. Commissioner Lynch here. Commissioner Doyle

here. Okay. Number two. Notice is hereby given that the Monizuma County Planning and Zoning Commission will hold a public hearing for review and determination of a proposed 5 acre single lot development and resoning application submitted by Alisa Backstrom and Shannon Stephenson on property located at 1904 Road S, Cortez, Colorado, consisting of 160 acres more or less. located north of Road S, west of Highway 491, situated section 23, township 37 north, range 17 west of the New Mexico Prime Meridian. This is a public hearing. Was the public notice published?

Yes, sir. Was evidence of letters to the joining neighbors and mineral owners submitted? Yes, sir. Was a sign posted? Yes, sir. Okay. Oh, she's here. Good job. All right. Planning uh department findings, please.

Sure. Um the applicants proposed to create a single lot development consisting of 5 acres more or less. The remaining uh 155 acres will not be a part of this project and will remain agricultural. The surrounding properties consist of agricultural and residential uses. Um, the property is accessed off of road S and the applicants will need to contact the county road and bridge department to obtain permitting for uh proper driveway access. I did hear from uh the county road and bridge department and um they stated that uh the access the current access is is for agricultural uses and um may need to be upgraded to u the county standards for roads for driveway. Um uh there is uh electricity to the property. Um, Monizuma Water Company has stated that they have a 2-in main line on the north side of Road S. Um, and uh, they currently provide water to the property. Um, and they have, um, adequate water for additional, um, taps. Um, uh, the wildfire adaptive partnership recommends a waiver from the comprehensive mitigation plan. uh parcel is categorized as low risk and is irrigated land. Um and basically that is it.

Okay. Thank you. You have anything to add to that? No. Okay. Okay. Commissioners, comments, discussions? Um, similar to the last uh application, I'm curious how the access to the larger acreage um will work out.

Part of it can be accessed along the ditch bank that goes along the p the end of the pond bank um on the east end of the pond. And then we plan to do like ement or a right of way on the back of the west side of the five acres to get to that dry land. So, it'll be along the west boundary of the small acreage. Yes. Until you reach the larger acreage and that will be the access point.

Yes. And there currently is no easement for that access. I don't know. There may be with the Walters. My grandparents may have had an easement so that both of us could access those properties. So Walters is just with the trees and the shop building um to the west of that pond. So, there may be an existing

easement with them already, but we I plan to give my sister and I are dividing this up. So, I plan to give her access to that so she can through the five acres. Yes. Through the five acres. Okay. Yes.

Okay. So now I'm confused. I I see a I see a road that goes through the five acres, but you that's not the one you're talking about, correct? You're talking about to the west, not the east. Yes, to the west. So she's going to have I'm taking the pond and that five acres and she's going to take the rest of that property. So, she will have to have access along that west property line to get to the back side because the ditch goes all the way through the property. Okay. So, on the west side that looking at this photo that's on the left side of the property, correct? Yes. Correct.

Okay. So, it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the access has not been worked out yet. No. Thank you.

My only question was about the ditch itself and if there's required access easement for maintenance on that. Yeah,

there is. Okay. For the ditch. Yeah, for the ditch. That's what I figured that was. I just wanted to call it out. Okay. Okay. Anything else? Okay. We're going to open this up for public comment. Anybody wishing to speak for or against this, please come to the podium. Okay. Seeing none, we're going to close it. the public comment. Bring it back to the commissioners for a recommendation. Um, I'll make a recommendation to the board of county commissioners to approve the proposed 5 acre single lot development resoning application submitted by Elissa Backstrom and Stephanie Stevens based on the following. The proposed use is in conformity with the code. The proposed use shall not generate any significant adverse impacts on other property in the area. The public utilities and services are available or can be made available to support uses consistent with proposed. The only condition I have is that the access be worked out for the bigger lot.

Do we have a second? I'll second. We have a motion and we have a second. If there's no further discussion, we'll call for the vote. Commissioner Hernandez, I. Commissioner Armstrong. Hi. Commissioner Nurgard. Hi. Commissioner Lynch. I. Commissioner Doyle. I. Okay. Motion carried. It was unanimous. Good luck.

Thank you. Okay, can we have roll call done? Commissioner Hernandez here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Negard here. Commissioner Lynch here. Commissioner Doyle

here. Okay. Number three. Notice is hereby given that the Monizuma County Planning and Zoning Commission will hold a public hearing for the purpose of reviewing and determining recommendations to be made to the Board of County Commissioners regarding a proposed subdivision amendment and reasonzoning application of the High Duron subdivision submitted by Johnny and Allison Duron and Tyson and Jamie Cox on properties located at 20508 and 20390 Road S, Cortez, Colorado, consisting of 16.68 and 3.03 acres more or less, located east of road 20, south of Road S, situated in section 25, Township 37 North, range 17 west of the New Mexico Prime Meridian. This is a public hearing. Was the public notice uh published?

Yes, sir. Was evidence of letters to the adjoining neighbors and mineral owners submitted? Yes, sir. Was a sign posted? Yes, it was. Okay. And we have the applicant. Great. Can we have planning department findings, please?

Uh the subject properties are lots one and two of the Hydrand subdivision. And due to being part of a subdivision, a common lot line change is subject to the permitting process in order to amend the existing subdivision. All property owners are in agreement and proposed to decrease the acreage on of lot one by 3.03 acres more or less with a remainder of 14.96 acres and increase the acreage of lot 2 by 3.03 3 acres more or less with a remainder of 6.39 acres. Uh the surrounding properties consist of agricultural and residential uses. Um the access is off of road S and the applicants are not seeking any new driveways accesses at this time. All the infrastructure um is already in due to houses being on both properties. And that's basically it.

Very simple. Okay. Anything to add to that? That says everything. I think Jane's real good at that. Okay. Commissioners, discussion, questions. Okay, I'm going to open it up for public comment. Anyone wishing to speak for against this, please come to the podium. Okay, seeing none, we'll close it. Bring it back to the commissioners. This is pretty simple.

Mr. Chair, I recommend to I move to recommend to the board of county commissioners to approve a proposed subdivision amendment and reasonzoning application of the Hyduran subdivision submitted by Johnny and Allison Duran and Tyson and Jamie Cox based on the following. The proposed use is in conformity with the code. The proposed use shall not generate any significant adverse impacts on other property in the area and public utilities and services are available or can be made available to support uses consistent with the proposed zoning and I have no conditions. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second it. We have a motion and a second. If we have no further discussion, we'll call for the vote.

Commissioner Hernandez. Hi. Commissioner Armstrong. Hi. Commissioner Nurggard. Hi. Commissioner Lynch. Hi, Commissioner Doyle. Hi. Okay, vote carried. It was unanimous. Good luck. Easy. Thank you.

Motion second by Okay. Number four. Notice is hereby given that the Monaz do roll call. Sorry. Do roll call. Commissioner Hernandez here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Negard here. Commissioner Lynch here. Commissioner Doyle here.

Okay. Now number four. Notice is hereby given. The Monizuma County Planning and Zoning Commission will hold a public hearing for the purpose of reviewing and determining recommendations to be made to the board of county commissioners regarding a proposed high impact permit application submitted by W Sanders and Lauren Debate. Agent Brian Davis on property located at 30550 Road H, Cortez, Colorado, consisting of 37 acres, more or less, south of Road H, east of Highway 160 491, situated in section 34, Township 36 North, range 15 west of the New Mexico Prime Meridian. This is a public hearing. Was the public notice published?

Yes, sir. Was evidence of letters to the adjoining neighbors and mineral owners submitted? Yes. Was the sign posted? Yes, it was. Okay. We have the applicants here. Planning department findings, please.

The applicant proposes to create a micro scale um farm distillery. Um he has also stated that this will not be open to the public, only available staying at their home bed and breakfast or otherwise already visiting the property as part of the existing home business which is a chocolate turning uh facility. Um and um he the applicant can expound more on on how he's uh his process is going to work. The surrounding properties consist of agricultural and residential uses along with Colorado state lands to the north and west. Um the property is accessed from an area of road H that is a red signed non-county maintained section. Um the applicant stated no uh permit is required for Kathy Harris of the Monizumi County Road and Bridge Department um as uh the parcel is located on a private road um which the county does not have jurisdiction which is correct. Um due to the property already having a house on it, um all infrastructure is already in. Um Monzuma Water Company has stated that there is a 4 inch main line on the north side of road H. Um and um they already provide uh water to the existing um residents and there is water available for any future needs. Um, and that's basically it.

Okay. I'm sure you're going to want to add to that. Um, yeah. Hi. Uh, so my name is Brian. This is Joanne. Um, we're proposing a really, really small distillery. So, this might actually be the smallest distillery in the United States. We've managed to get this done, at least legal one. Um, so yeah, it's one to two barrels a month of production. Uh, it's meant to be super super small. Well, we have a long history of doing um high-end distilled spirits and so we thought it would be really fun to put a tiny little distillery in, make a, you know, handful of barrels a year of some really special stuff and share them with guests. Okay, commissioners, I'm sure you have questions.

Do you have experience doing this before?

Mhm. Uh yeah, actually um won 2019's World Whiskey of the Year from the founding editor of Whiskey Magazine UK and have a long history of over 20 years of making distilled spirits before uh quasi retiring here. Uh we also obtained uh if it's relevant um a letter from the fire department recommending uh the project go forward after reviewing the comprehensive fire plan for risk mitigation. Um I also have a letter from the uh we call it Mesa Verde Country Tourism Office in support. Um you Brian's also here along with I think almost every neighbor I have.

Okay. Yeah. Then do I understand that um you have a business already with the chocolate factory? We have a little tiny chocolate operation. Um we uh Joan and I make chocolate during the week and on the weekends we let people come visit. Uh we conjure chocolate using magic tricks. It's quite Okay. And the B&B does not exist yet? Oh, we're we're currently building it. Say again. Oh, it's under construction. Currently building it. Okay. Oh, here. Let me get closer to this. We we need an application for for that or is that included in this application? That's included in this application. The B&B. Okay. And it's not the B&B. Oh, not the B&B. Just the whole operation of the chocolate factory with the distillery.

With the distillery, but not the B&B. So B&B is going to be short-term rental then. Right. The B&B is available to anybody on agricultural residential property. Mhm. as long as it's contained in the primary or accessory residence. Okay. Oh, okay. It's not secondary. You don't get four or five separate. Okay. I see res. Yeah, that's okay. Correct. We're building it onto the existing house. Okay. I understand that now.

Okay. Cooling pond that you're going to put in there. Where's that water coming from? Um we would be buying it from the city from city water. It' be coming from Mono Water Company. It uh it also was provides water for the fire department as well. Um so they were also excited about having access to it in the event there ever was an event out there. Um so we would be putting in a special hydrant that they can use to draw that water should they ever need it. Was there any comments from C do DOT on access

because it is uh so far away from the highway? They have no concerns. They don't they don't have any real jurisdiction about that. That's what they said. And it's on a private road.

Okay. So in the application, if I read it correctly, uh the trips per day in traffic is estimated at one. Well, so there's kind of two ways to think about it. So we currently have the existing chocolate business and on the weekends we will sometimes have 12 or 13 trips a day from that. And so we're actually reducing the number of chocolate tours that we do to allow for trips for the bed and breakfast. Um, the distillery doesn't really generate traffic per se. I mean, very, very little because it's so small. So, you might have a delivery once a month of goods and you might have a shipment going out once a month of a pallet or something, but we're talking like a couple trips a month. I mean, it's really, really microscale.

So, how many trips a day between the BNB and the chocolate?

We would keep it under 15 by basically throttling those either way, right? So, if we successfully complete all five rooms on the bed and breakfast, which we'll see, it's it's us building it. Um, so assuming that that gets completed, then we would throttle back our chocolate factory tours to ensure that we stay below the county threshold standard of 15 trips. So, because we can control it, we ticket guests coming in for the chocolate tours. And so, we actually have a very good sense of how many people are coming and when. And we have control over that by offering more tickets or less tickets. And we've never exceeded the 15 trips per day. And I'm assuming the same kind of system is going to be used for the B&B because you said it's not open to the correct

it would be people who have booked a room that would be coming. And if we have more demand for chocolate tours and less demand for bed and breakfast rooms, then we would just increase chocolate tours and close off bed and breakfast rooms. Okay. So we essentially can control it quite easily. But but what you're telling us is you will keep the trips per day uh less than than 15. Correct. Okay. I mean, as Don pointed out, during the process, we had the option of increasing it in the high impact permit. Yeah. And we chose not to uh mostly because one, we get along with the majority of our neighbors and would like to keep it that way. Yeah. And also, we're quasi retired and don't really want to work that much.

Yeah. Okay. Right. It was just that uh the traffic from these other businesses weren't included in the numbers that I saw. So, I'm I'm glad that you helped explain what what the total is going to be. Mhm. All right. Thank you. Thank you. If the distillery is going to be non-public, so it's only going to be consumed by the bed and breakfast people and or shipped out. That's or people who are otherwise already visiting for the chocolate factory tours. So for adults, for example, we might the people that are there, let them have a glass of whiskey. Okay. So So I come in

and there have been several requests from neighbors. I come in to buy chocolate and while I'm there I'm going to be able to purchase and to and taste sure your I mean in moderation of course we we don't want to send anyone on the road drunk. So we're going to we're going to be consuming alcohol on the property. Yes. In the tasting room. Okay. It would be possible. May maybe encouraged. So let's say um hypothetically in the future you would decide that you would want this private room to become public. Would they just have to come back through and amend the high impact permit?

Well, they would have to change their licensing and permitting with the state as well as coming back. That was really one of my main questions are to not to slightly nuance that. So the state permit would allow it to be open to the public. It would be the county that would be where we would go for permission to change that structure because the the state license is actually quite broad in terms of what it's allowed. Um but it's the county license that or the county high impact permit that creates those limitations. Okay.

Um I mean personally I'd love to have it where it was allowed to be open to the public if we wanted to. We have no intention to do it right now. Um, in the long run, I could see scenarios where maybe we throttled back chocolate and wanted to open up the distillery more, but I'm also not opposed to coming back to the county and going through the process in the event that we wanted to change that. Okay. Just out of curiosity, is alcohol considered a food or is it a separate category? Well, in which context? because alcohol kind of skirts interesting lines within the context of food, beverage, agriculture, all of these things. And so

the the only reason I'm asking is because we have a certain we have a in the land use code there's um an allowance or or um food sales are treated um in a different way possibly. And so I I was just kind of curious, well, where do I put this? Do I put this in food or out of food? legally the well actually if you really want to get technical uh so it does

the so I'm happy to hand these out um the department of agriculture defines it as agriculture um the department of agriculture also defines it as agurism uh the code of federal regulations define it as agricultural processing the Colorado Revised Statutes define it as agricultural processing and I brought actually all of those all the relevant sections highlighted. I thought this might come up and and uh those designations are because it's a mic is it a micro or mini distill those are just general classifications for what is a distillery. So fermenting and distilling agricultural products, yeah,

is classed in the Code of Federal Regulations and the Colorado Revised Statutes as agricultural processing. Um, notably allowed an AR-35 plus zoning in the land use code. I would point out um it also the Department of Agriculture weighs in in classing it as agurism for people coming and visiting distilleries. Um, also notably in the land use code as a allowance under AR35 plus zoning. Yeah. Um, so I guess it's food. I think agriculture is food generally. I mean, you know, spirits are not I wouldn't consider it food. Beer maybe comes from the same grain, right? Or a grain.

Well, whiskey begins as beer. So, you know, like I said, this gets really into dancing interesting lines when you get into beverage because it, you know, it also comes into play with the fire code differently and, you know, so it's it it crosses some interesting lines there. All right, I I'll just accept that it's a little bit complicated and I don't need to worry about it. So, I'm good. But, thank you. Thank you for the explanation. You got it. So down the So the the bottom line is distilleries require light industrial zoning and in lie of that they're applying for a high impact permit on agriculture residential property that gives us control of what happens

and I I never asked do you have irrigation water down there what are no what are you growing and how much of a product are you growing out of what you're distilling

so I don't really have a percentage breakdown. Um, I'm experimenting with growing different things out there. So, uh, Chardonnay grapes are definitely on the radar as a Rezling. So, Rezling based brandy is definitely on the target list. I'm playing around. We have a couple of apple trees. I might try to expand those. In the short run, I think we'll be primarily purchasing agricultural products from other farms and then using that as the raw material input, but we are also planning on growing some of our own crops out there, too. But no, we do not have irrigation water. So, grapes are very attractive because they don't really require much water. The rest of these are more iffy.

The the the county then is going to require a liquor license. The state does and it's the county does through the county approved by the board of commissioners and through the clerk office. Okay. There's also a federal license as well. Um, we've had both state licenses in other states in the past as well as federal licenses most of most of our adult lives with the exception of the last year making chocolate. Okay. Any nothing else? We're going to open this up for public comment. Anyone wishing to speak for against, please come to the podium. State your name and address for the record. Is the microphone on?

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Brian Bartlett 21420 Road G here representing Mesaverie country uh CEO and tourism director for that entity. Very excited about this opportunity. I did have a nice letter of support here. I'd like to just share a portion of this if I could please with you just so you understand where we're coming from. Um it's a thoughtfully designed addition. It's limited in scale to no more than one to two barrels of production per month. It addresses a notable gap in services for a growing segment of our upscale visitation audience. Many of these travelers seek distinctive immersive experiences and exclusive amenities available primarily to guests staying on site. Offering a limited production, property exclusive spirit would provide precisely the type of memorable and place-based experience that today's highvalue travelers actively seek. The reason we're excited about that is that we have an upper echelon of travelers that come through our area. We currently don't have a ton of accommodations or experiential activities to satisfy what they're looking for. This fits the bill perfectly. It overlaps with agra tourism, overlaps with uh our um pardon, pardon me, multi-gen travel. A lot of people like to come for this and have a big reunion and have people get together on site where it's safe. They know they don't have to leave. They don't have to risk any driving and they get to go away and attract more people that are high-V value uh travelers to this area and to this market. So, it really checks a lot of boxes for the goals that Mesa Verdie Country has that line up with the goals that we have for tourism and visitation in our county. Uh we very much believe in what Brian and Joanne have done. We work so diligently to bring this type of expertise and Maverick professionalism into our tourism market and we're very thrilled that they're here and we hope that this will encourage others to come and join with other Maverick tourism and visitation ideas. I thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Hi there. My name is Billy Acres. Address is 3077 Road H. Definitely a lucky number. We're to the um we're to the east of their property. We also have an Airbnb. Um top 1% with Airbnb and we send a lot of a lot of our guests. We actually can share a coupon with our guests over to the chocolate. So, that'll be an added feature to have the distillery. Um, I'm not bothered at all about the possibility of traffic. Um, you know, it's private road and, um, pretty much everybody gets along down that road. Um, my biggest complaint is when Valley Solar Panels comes in here and wants to mess it all up there on our on our property. But at any rate, I think it's a great what he's doing. is a neat niche. It's He's doing it fantasy. Like if you haven't been to the chocolate factory, it's a neat little quirky visit. The magical chocolates, but the chocolates are just amazing. He gets the chocolate from somewhere in South America,

Ecuador. But yeah, but yeah, we're all um me and my wife are right next door. Thank you. Thank you, Billy. It's still not on. Is it on? Oh, there it is. There you go.

Rachel Kamisky, 13267 Road 22. Um, we also own the property that would be north of the chocolate factory. So, we were here a year ago or so, um, when we put in a subdivision just across the street. And uh we don't have an issue with the chocolate factory at all. What we do want to kind of safeguard is that we put $100,000 to put that road in and we also put $60,000 in to bring the water. We uh upgraded the line to 4 in line. And um we would just like some help with that because when we came to you guys, we had said we were going to maintain that road, but at that time there wasn't the traffic from the chocolate factory. Um when I'm out there working on our place, there's at least two cars every couple of hours, sometimes more. Um Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and that to me is pretty significant traffic. Um, all of the neighbors were here opposing us because of our increase of traffic, but um, I feel like this is just as much traffic and so we would like some kind of help with the road and maintaining it from the property or from their business or and the surrounding businesses so that we're not solely responsible for maintaining the road. Um, we've also put in a hydrant right there. So, you know, that helps with that. And then I am a little concerned because we did put in that the water line and they have been allowed to put their tap at the very beginning of the water line to kind of supersede having to help us pay for the water line and their plan is to come down our private road with another line on top of the line. And so if that's continued to happen are people just going to keep piling water lines on top of the 4 inch line so that they don't have to help pay for that water line. So that is my concern as well. So thank

you. Thank you.

I'm Brandy Atkinson. Um 30261 Road H. We own the campground next to the chocolate factory and I fully support them expanding business. I think that that, you know, hopefully brings us more people that see our business and um we love sending people back and forth between the two. Um so I I just think like it's good for tourism, it's good for us, it's good for our customers, it's good for their customers to be so close, and just to have someplace that our campers can go and we can send them out to. And I like the idea of getting more visibility as well. So I fully support them. Thank you.

Thank you, Brandy.

Anyone else? Okay, then we're going to Oh, sorry.

Hi, I'm Robin Smith and I live at 25745 Road H, but I own property across the directly across the road from them. So, uh, it's just agricultural right now. We have no problem with this. We support it. Um, had really good experiences so far with what they've done and know a lot about their history and actually you're being very modest about their experience. So, yeah, they I think they know what they're doing. Um, also just a little note, yeah, I don't think the traffic would be a big issue. Um the waterline thing just from my understanding it's not to circumvent it's not to circumvent them. It's because the water company and this is something we're dealing with. The water company is overcharging for us to bring that line down to to the properties

dramatically. Dramatically. And that is the reason. It's not to it's not the purpose is not to circumvent the money that they put in for the water line. Um the water companies try to charge $40,000 per line just to bring it down plus the tap fee plus the tap plus plus. So that's the problem for one connection. Yeah, just one. Just for one and we need it too actually and we're not going to be able to get it for probably 10 years until that actually. Believe me, we do not want to dig a trench all the way down.

Let her speak. Let her speak. No, I'm just saying that's that's actually I just wanted to mention that that is the reason. It's definitely nothing against trying to hurt uh and maybe you guys could help work on that situation with them because it's not about you guys. It's about the water company. Um so, uh that was it. But yeah, we're we're we're fine with it. We support it and we think it's a really good venture for the location. Thanks.

Thank you. Hi, I'm Thomas Kamiski at 13267 County Road 22. I also own the property down there on Road H. Um, I was one that helped put the water or got the water line in. We were going to do what they did and tap into the line where there was taps available, but we could not do that. In order for us to do what we were doing, the water company made us and charged us 60 grand to put that 4 inch line in. And then under that assumption, we knew that if anybody else wanted audit, they would help pay for that. But now they're putting it way down at the very beginning of it and trenching trying to trench their own lines that other mile to their place or whatever it is. I'm not sure how far it is, but instead of just tapping into the line right at their property and bringing it across the road. So they'll be trying to run all that water through like a what 3/4 inch line to do all the irrigating and everything all the way maintaining it for the whole distance of that. So I don't I think that they should have to tap in where they got access with that 4 inch line and then they pay their dues up to that. But that's my concern. So that's it.

Okay. Thank you. Trisha Hail, 30655 Road H. I live directly across from the premises there. And um I am very concerned about our road because my girls built that road, so it was good for the people that would be living in the subdivision, but also blessed everybody else. But in less than a year, it's all rutdded. people drive down there 30 plus miles per hour. It's a 25 mile speed per limit and it's already rudded very severely and we have the campground who was improved to 14 spaces or something and we still nobody's helped with the road. So, we're concerned that it will affect buyers for this subdivision. So that's my big complaint and you know I'm what they do with their property is okay but it is turning into instead of a residential there's a lot of businesses on that road now so that's my concern is and I have been out there and I have seen four cars at a time come up there for one session so it is a lot of traffic and then at the summer we also get the campground that has um I don't know what when they open, but it's through October. So, that whole part down there gets more wear and tear, too. So, there is a lot of traffic in there. A lot.

Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else? Okay, we're going to close the public comment and bring it back to the commissioners and maybe get some questions answered on the waterline issue. Now you can talk. So the water line is a really interesting special situation. I don't know that anyone here has any power over the water company. So I think we're kind of just talking for the sake of all probably to some degree all agreeing. Uh so they were saying they spent $60,000 on the water line to bring in the water line for the nine unit subdivision. Um and we're the idea was that we were supposed to pay a portion to then tap into that line for our property.

But the water company quoted us $56,000 for one tap one uno and then quoted Troy and Robin separately something similar for each individual one. So, the water company charged them 60,000 and then they're trying to resell their water line to other people over and over and over again and uh and very graciously the county, you know, allowed us to park the tap at the bottom and run it in the easement for utilities. So, we went, well, we don't want to do this. I mean, we we expected that we would be paying something like $10,000 sharing the cost with them for the water line along with everyone else who adds on to it,

which was what we have presumed, but the water company decided to use this as an interesting moment to really charge a lot. So, I don't know what's going on there. I mean, we worked out a solution. It's certainly not ideal, but it was kind of like, okay, it's workable. I mean, not great. I don't really want to spend three weeks on a tractor. Okay. So So back up a second. You said that you are allowed to bring a 3/4 inch line. It's not a 3/4. It's a It's a inch and a half. But I'm sorry. It's a one and a half inch. But okay. Half a half inch line. Okay.

One one and a half. It's an engineer. It's a good size. Well, yeah. I was going to say for a for a business and multiple businesses probably 3/4 wouldn't cut it. But anyway, you're running that line where? Um through the easement on the red road, the utility easement. Whose easement? So the I am absolutely not qualified to answer this. Uh well, road H has obviously red road H.6 is a 60 foot wide access utility easement. Right. Right. Utility easement would be electric water

electric gas water quasi governmental I don't know that private individuals can run in a public street in the rightway it's it's been it's been done by others in the I'm I'm not saying that it's right I'm just saying I don't and e is where my life. So, I don't know that that is correct.

Um if if if I wanted to if I wanted to run a water line from a from zoo um gallery there down Main Street to some other place, I couldn't do that. I'm not a quasi governmental agency. So, I cannot You have to have a fr what's called a franchise right to be able to run utilities inside a public rightway. So, it's a private road. Yeah. Pardon? It's a private road. Private road. H is a private road. Well, the very end of it is Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, that Okay. So, you you're taking it from the end of

I agree with you. The water line from Zoo Gallery would be absolutely madness. Let me let me look at this. Can we see where the water see that picture? Where the water lines running on this? So the the water the tap was installed by the water company for us um at the end of the public maintained road where it becomes a private road. Where is the end of the public maintained road on my map? Okay. I'm looking at if someone could water company to make the price reasonable, we'd be more than happy. So, so, so, so going from west to east, H being on the north side of your property line. Well, actually, if you have, um, you have a map of red H, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, can show you really quickly. Property map. Pull the map. Bring that map up. Yeah. Which one are you looking at?

This way. Yeah, that one. Brian, what size water tap did you have to put in? Um, I believe it's 5/8, I think, if I remember correctly. it um you know the the distillery doesn't actually really use much in the way of water. The uh the cooling water is the primary use and that's why we put the pond in so that we can recycle the cooling water and that you're not depleting and using large amounts of water. So it actually is really really small scale water consumption. Okay. Oh, there it is. So what everybody needs to know is that water taps are a separate cost than water lines, right? and commercial water taps. If you put in a 3-in commercial water tap, you're going to pay 100 grand. Yeah.

Yeah. The $56,000 quote though is just for a regular residential tap. It was nothing special. Okay. So, we're looking at that map. Uh so, and and and and so that your west property line would be the end of the water line on the road H. So, you need to zoom out a bit further here. Um this is better. Regen regen. There we go. There you go. So you can see the private road going down turning left at that elbow and then intersecting with the public road down where that red dot is where Okay. So that's a private road. So H is a red road.

That section is not this section but up above the the the the part running east and west. It's 63 miles from the county road H on the red road to his driveway. I don't know if he follows the road, but 9/10 of a mile. Okay. I'm not still not understanding where's the where does the county road ends right here at this culdeac. Okay, there it is. Okay. Okay. That's where it stops. Okay.

Then everything else is a dedicated 60 ft access easement and utility easement through this from 1960 something. Okay. Okay. That and that's what I'm saying is that a private entity should not be able to put anything in a franchise position in a road in a public road right away. an individual or a private road. It's not public. I bet you said it was just That's what he's saying. It's an access utility easement road for what was created as up here.

It's public through where it's green. 2 4 6 8. It was created with 480s. I mean 840s. Since then, it's been all hacked up a little bit, but so H is not a public road other than where where the green started. Green, correct? Green and going the other way. Correct. This is all private. Okay. And it and it did end not public. All right, that answers my question. Yeah, I understand. Yes, you can.

Okay, any other questions, commissioners? Yeah, I was I wasn't really uh quite following it. Are you planning to I for I'm apologize to the lady who was talking about her water line that she put and spent all that money on it. Are you planning to tap into that line or are you planning to go from the where she's got the cursor here where the green line ends and run a line? We're running a line from where the green line is. A separate line. A separate line. the uh so she put in that line for the nine parcels up there.

So they charged her a lot of money to put in a big fancy expensive line. We were all really excited about this actually when it happened because we thought well hey look at the cool upside. We can now relatively inexpensively tap into this water line because we didn't have water before and bring water in. Yeah, I got that. The problem is that the water company is trying to charge us as much as she paid to put the whole thing in for one single tap. for a tap. For one tap, just one. And then they're trying to charge Troy and Robin again the whole price of the entire line for one tap again. Well, times two cuz they need two of them. Okay. Okay. Thank Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

Sorry. This totally turned into something completely other than our distillery project for the moment, but it just turned into our great possession with the water company. Like you said, it's expensive. I mean, other people out in the county are Yeah. have sisterns in our hauling water. Well, that's what we've did until very very recently. It's probably not suitable for your No, I mean it's not practical intended use. Yeah. Hence why we bought the tap. It's been installed by the way. Um but hence why we bought the tap. So, one of the concerns I had from just some of the public comment was you have the campground and I heard the lady for the campground. Oh, well, you maybe people come over to your place. That's great for the

sample your wares. But in your thing, there's very specific that it's only the five occupants of your B&B that are going to be allowed in there. Well, and people who are visiting the chocolate factory. So, that seems a little cute. Well, I mean, I'm not necessarily trying to be cute. It was disclosed. I'm just saying the way it seems. I mean, we put it in there in black and white. Yeah. Um, the uh the idea being that guests are coming to visit and taste chocolate. currently. Um, for the ones who are over 21, it would be really fun to Right. So, there's people coming in just to taste chocolate. And what's the volume of that? Um, it's uh currently four tours a day on the weekend in holiday.

Tours. I mean, where are the uh so they're groups of 10 people um that we take through uh the um they buy tickets. We control the flow of traffic that way. Okay. Um it's quite fun. We conjure chocolate using magic tricks and, you know, clocks that dispense chocolate. So, the campground couldn't come over during the week. Not unless we were open for a holiday schedule or something. Normally, we're closed during the week. I mean, again, we're kind of half retired here. We don't really want to work that much. And it's just us, you know, it's not like there's a whole bunch of staff there or something.

It's still under 15 trips per day, by the way. And who's responsible for maintaining that road? Well, that's a question that's been debated since I got here. I mean, what what responsibility do you feel you guys have based on the increased usage of the road that you're going to

Well, we've added a bit of rock. Um, I think in all honesty, we'd be kind of open to discussion on that topic and helping out with it. I mean, I think, you know, I don't know that anyone's ever been happy with it. Um, but no one's really figured out exactly who's responsible for maintaining it. And so, we've added some rock. Um, not a ton. Ken, back, one of our other neighbors, has added considerable amounts to it. Um, as did the development when they were going through the process here. They added a fair amount of rock to it. This is a gravel road. Yes, it's a gravel road. being added.

Mr. Chair, this is a discussion between the commissioners and the applicant if with questions, not with the audience. Yeah, correct. Yeah, hold on. Sorry. You just kind of have the entire neighborhood here. I mean, I have over a mile of driveway road on my property. I know what it takes to terms of gravel and work. It's not nothing. It's expensive and it's not a ton. I think I put 70 tons down last year. Yeah,

I understand your concerns, Commissioner Doyle, and and I'm with you on that. This entity is going to be bringing in additional traffic as opposed to neighbors that hold on hold on that are you using it as a livelihood. Sure. Yeah. So yeah, I think there needs to be discussion on how you are going to be able to contribute to that.

I think we're happy to contribute. I would point out that we're not actually asking for additional trips beyond what's already allowed for the parcel for the land use code. So we're not exceeding the 15 trips per day. So I would point out we're not actually going over a normal single family residence is allowed trips just as a point. But that being said, I think we're open to working with the neighbors um to try to figure out how to make the road better anyway, just in general. Yeah. And I'm not suggesting that we want to solve that problem. Good.

Yeah. M Mr. Chair, I Mr. Chair, I I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, anybody at at this commission, uh I believe uh because this is a private road, it's up to the land owners who share the use of that road to determine who and how it's going to be maintained. And it's not up it's not within the purview of our decision makingaking as to how that happens or even if it happens. This question came up when the permit was uh being applied for for the uh the campground and there were questions at the time that are similar. But um this this body has nothing to do with maintenance agreements that need to be uh generated by the users of a private road. We have no say in it and I don't believe the commissioners do either. Do they Don? Um,

not literally. They did recommend on the campground expansion that they contribute to the upgrade of that road. So I I I believe my perception is that there's a need and uh in my point of view it seems like that need should be filled by the land owners who use that road and you should have meetings or something in order to solve that problem. We will throw a party with the first barrel. Correct. And and why wouldn't that be a um condition? No, we don't have any we don't have any jurisdiction over

we have jurisdiction in the application. We have jurisdiction in the application and the application as it as it sits we are going to be making recommendations yay or nay to the to the commissioners and and why can't we have a um not a comment what's the word I'm looking for a condition condition that the neighbors speak because we it's uninforceable it's uninforceable we can't we can't tell the neighbors what to do that's correct you can require all come to our place for a drink. Okay, I see what you're saying. We can't do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same as the water. We just don't have any jurisdiction over that, right?

We have no clue over your taps. I mean, I get it. I understand that that pisses you off. Really piss me off. I I get it. You know, I I attest to you guys, you know, you paying for the water line. I get it. But if the water company's telling me he's got to do this, I mean, that's beyond anything that we can do, to be honest. Yeah. So the the road and the water are out of our purview. My understanding is with the people who supply the water is

uh the first person out there can put in the line, they pay for the entire line and as other land owners get taps, they pay a portion of that original amount and the original person who put it in gets reimbursed part of the cost of putting that line in. So, I understand your concerns, but that's that's not for us. I would say there's a problem there. I don't know how to solve that problem, but it doesn't seem fair to the original land owner who put in the line

because that was their intent. That was their understanding when they put that in. So, it it's out of my purview and I believe our our commission's purview. It's another problem that the land owners out there have to try and resolve resolve. But I I don't think Well, I'm not gonna say anymore. I That's I get it. Electric lines the same way. Let's bring the line in. Yeah.

Anything else? Okay. Negative. I'll entertain a motion then.

I'll make a motion to recommend to the board of county commissioners to approve a high impact permit application submitted by win and win Sanders and Lauren debate agent Brian Davis. Proposed use is in conformity with the code. Proposed use shall not generate any significant adverse impacts on other property in the area and public utilities and services are available or can be made available supporting uses consistent with the proposed zoning. I'll second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second. If we don't have no further discussion, I'll call for the vote. Is there any conditions I'm sorry. Is there any conditions? No. No condition. Commissioner Hernandez.

I, Commissioner Armstrong. Hi, Commissioner Nurgard. Hi, Commissioner Lynch. Hi, Commissioner Doyle. I Okay, motion carries unanimous. Thank you very much, John. I'm going to visit your chocolate factory. Awesome. We're we're going to be open just as soon as we get done building some bed and breakfast rooms. Thank you very much everybody and also thank you to all of my neighbors out there.

Okay, we have roll call. Commissioner uh Hernandez here. Commissioner Armstrong here. Commissioner Nurggard here. Commissioner Lynch here. Commissioner Doyle here. Okay. Additional

comprehensive plan revision. Are you talking about the the comprehensive land use plan that was back before the land use code? Yep. Yeah. So, this goes back to the whole blight discussion. Mhm.

If if the commissioners want to try and entertain an ordinance, we're starting from ground zero. you're rewriting the whole comp plan because the comp plan is not written to be so prescriptive of government oversight in the county. So, an ordinance can't exist from the position that the comp plan says personal property rights prevail. There is no definition or discussion of trash. So, you have it. If you think it's great, it's your trash. If other people don't like it, they don't own your property. So, we the county cannot run um adopt an ordinance that goes against its own comp plan, which was the basis for all government control of the county.

So, the comp plan came first. 12, 15, 18, 20 people, business owners from all walks of life for about 18 months went through to create the comp plan and trash and blight was a for never ending battle and they finally just threw their hands up. Well, I don't know. Don't use those words, but they finally said that they can't they can't address trash. Yeah.

So, then came the land use code and now everybody calls planning and there's really nothing I can do. I can send them a letter. Mhm. But there's no bite. So, yeah. I mean, and and so so it's going to be a catch 22 if you want to revise the comp plan and you have your public meetings and your public meetings are for public input of every individual that has any trash on their property being on the list when this ordinance goes into effect. I don't see this thing ever having

any sign of life circle. And I I'm not inclined to spend a year to get to nowhere. Well, I have a technical question. I I don't think the comprehensive plan is part of our job. We're the planning and zoning commission and we make our decisions based on the land use code, not the comprehensive plan. And as far as I know, there's nothing that says that we touch the comprehensive plan. No,

I would agree. So in the land use code, if we want to do something there, I believe we have the authority to do that and recommend to the commissioners a change in the land use code. But we don't have any authority to do anything with the comprehensive plan as far as I understand. No, this is information purposes only. Oh, okay. So it's different. No, we are not attackling the comp plan. No, that's okay. Okay. So there's no because there's state statute that requires municipal comp plans to go through the planning and zoning commission and ratify by the decision makers. Yeah. And I I don't know if that applies to counties. I don't know much about that, but I'm dealing with that right now.

Say for sure, but we're a statutory county. So, um you might want to following Yeah. statute. Um, that's how you may or may not get to an ordinance. But if basically you can't do a oneoff. Yeah. When it doesn't align with anything you've done for 30 years in your county.

You can't just wing it. The courts don't like that. We would never survive a challenge. So in the in the discussions um the commissioners are discussing blight and a response and a and a plan. Um, my discussions with the county attorney is more along the lines of I want a liaison for lack of a better word, somebody to communicate with the public at their residence on site if there's a particular problem. Um, the county is possibly looking to provide tipping fees at the landfill for people who would clean up their property may not be um readily available to pay those tipping fees.

Um kind of like that voucher so that we take the approach that you know your property looks bad. You've just now dumped new trash on there in the last year. Here's some opportunities. Can you clean it up? This is what we'd like to see. There's no reason for the trash. that approach because letters in big-handed government are not going to work. I have a question. I've heard that term before, but I don't know what tipping fees mean. I don't that's that's what the landfill charges to dump your trash. Okay, that's the the the name for the fee that you pay. Okay.

It's gener it's either by a pickup load costs whatever it costs or you pull a trailer down there and it's by weight. Okay. Yeah. So it's this the tipping fees are based on the weight of trash on and off the scale. Yeah. You bring you bring a trailer in with a bunch of trash. You unload it. Then they weigh the trailer as it comes back. Yeah. So the So we're not talking about tipping the people money. No, no. When you say and they are so looking at, you know, a county cleanup day just like the city has a cleanup day, but you know, if if you don't have the resources to haul off your trash, throwing it in a pile is not a plan.

Yeah. So, so this is kind of similar to that voucher program you guys tried to do. Just some something like that. Couple years ago, we had the voucher program and a lot of vouchers were handed out, but not a lot of them were uh turned in and and uh because they still had to get it from point A to point B. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing.

Well, I mean, it is a problem. Um I was talking to somebody the other day about this on 184 between Manus and Dolores. um on the right side as you're traveling to Dolores, it was a big blue building with a guy that had tons of cars just laying all over the place, you know, and when I was looking at property to move here, realtor took me to one across the street basically and I said, "Oh, this is not not even going to happen here. I'm not even going to look at this." But something happened. the guy cleaned the whole place up and I don't know if that that was part of the voucher thing or not, but it's a very nice piece of property now.

Oh, a lot of it can be if it's taken care of. It has an impact on potential, you know, owners. Absolutely. It does. So, I' I've read the comprehensive plan and there's a lot of discussion about blight, but I don't remember any definitions of blight. They all agreed that it was bad and they all agreed that they didn't want it in certain corridors, but they wouldn't they didn't define it and they didn't uh pres propose anything to take care of it. And there you go. So that's the dance around.

We there was um one of the commissioners was actually involved in that. Maybe we could ask questions. First thing I said, "What's your definition of blight?" He said, "Well," and I said, "You just failed." You said, "Well, because you can't give me a definition, a specific, succinct definition of one thing that's trash or blight." Yeah. So, I said, "Never." Yeah. How can you write policy around something like that? You got to have decision. There is a definition of rubbish.

Yeah. in statute and it does cover the problem. But again, you're going back to recreate and then you're also creating a whole another department of three or 400,000 a year, two or three people in office, a car, an attorney. Mhm. And court and court cost. And I see that going nowhere as fast as all our other options of enforcement so far. So you're basically saying that the commissioners wouldn't support the

they're looking for options and ideas. Um, one of them kind of likes working with the individuals and relaying information, opportunities that the county can help. Uh, another one wants an ordinance. But that's a long long hill to climb to as far as I see to get to nowhere because I don't know how this county is going to ever take all the trash we have and say, "Yeah, let's have a trash ordinance cuz everybody's going to be on it." Wow. What I would say is all the farmers because washers, dryers, and hot water heaters

are not egg. Old cars are not a. So, I mean, it covers everybody and everybody. There you go. I mean, I'd recommend they hire a consultant if they decide they want to redo the comp plan to help them do it. I mean, we don't need a consultant. We'll get a boilerplate document that's just dumped on us and they forget to change the name half the time. Well, I mean, you still have to go through the process with the community. Nah, they No, I'm not saying we're not redoing the plan. Okay. Well, if the commissioners don't I mean that they can direct it. But yeah,

when they direct it, I don't know that planning and zoning gets to review it. So, I think they're going to have to take it on themselves. Yeah. To try and schedule it and discuss it and promote it or don't. And I don't know that there's a consensus at this point. I just wanted to let you know, update you kind of where things are at. And you already know my opinion. Thank you, Don. Fighting it all the time and sending certified letters and all that to get no response is just no fun. We don't need to spin our wheels,

you know? Well, I mean, we don't have the money to try and do this either. We're losing money every year. We're not gaining money. So, we can't open a whole new division because, right, we're not going to recoup anything. Mhm. Yeah. That's going to be all outlay. Yeah. It's just going to be expenses. It's We're It's not a revenue stream. Exactly. I mean, they go to court, they get a $1,000 fine and clean it up, but $1,000 doesn't cover

six months of court case for an attorney and the enforcement guy and his vehicle and insurance and an office and sounds like they can keep talking about it if they're not going to do anything about it. So yeah, we keep promoting it and we contact people cuz new stuff shows up and it's like why, you know, pull it off, go to the landfill. Mhm.

And then we have places that have been to court and nobody's been directed to take them back to court. So I'm at a loss. If it went to court the first time because of the problem of the property, then it should go back every year till I get straight. But the commissioners have to direct the attorney to do that. Mhm.

I don't win conversations. Many times I just bring them up when these new things come up. it. It's kind of chasing fires. Three people in a neighborhood start complaining about a property that's been that way for 6 years and all of a sudden it's a panic from my perspective. Well, you never know the situation. They could be wanting to sell and you know that's going to hurt that sale.

We've got one that's been through child social services, kids taken away, been to court fined. A week later, the decision got rescended. Planning wasn't told. Three years later, we find out that it failed. So, our hardcore go to court, lock them up, find them failed, and there you go. We'll we'll see where we get. We've got another one going to court which basically is to get some action to clean the place up because if it goes to court, it's just get fined and then clean the place up. So, we'll see

what the options. This is a five-year plan and you guys have seen applications come through here. So, we'll see. No means no. Deny is deny. Okay. But so there's the enforcement mechanism that is a tough cell. That's the problem is that you don't have any way to enforce it. No, we're just I mean the county wasn't ever set up to do it. Set Exactly. We don't have the foundation which goes back to your legal whatever.

Okay. And there's been no decision you yet on leaf property. So we don't know if our isn't that coming up uh it's coming up for a conference here. Conference. That's what it was. Which means they're going to ask questions instead of just everything that was submitted in writing. That's all. And so if and when there's ever a decision, we'll find out if the land use coast is legal or not because that's the bottom line. Chapter two is illegal. Yeah. On this one. Yeah. And then I'm not sure where we start. Well, we'll just wait for that.

In in my opinion, in my opinion, that probably should have never been zone commercial for what was being done. Then should have been high impact. That's what should have been done. That's what he's applying for is high impact. He's trying to get but it's commercial. It's it's zone commercial right now. Yeah. But the very first sentence under commercial is you may need to have other permits in order to operate what you want to do on this commercial property. Right. But again, if you did if it it was residential and then it got converted to to commercial because that guy wanted to do the painting. Yeah. But that was through the letter permits when we adopted the land code before us. I'm I'm sure

it it wasn't done through our process and the land use code was adopted in 98 and in 2000 they sent everybody in the county a letter and said what are you doing and what do you want to be zoned and what do you want to be permitted for. Well the guy that had a frame shop said commercial and so he's commercial. Well that doesn't get reviewed. Yeah. Like the frame shop disappeared. There's no building. There's a septic system in the ground. Well, this guy buys it. Yeah. And then there you go. And there you go. Well,

I think we're going to lose that one. My gut pick feeling you're going to lose it. I don't know. Well, the appeal went from four issues or two issues to four issues. So, they split the baby to get better odds, I guess. I don't know. It's all legal stuff and Yeah, he's definitely going to spend the money on it. I mean, he's just sorry, but it's my opinion on the whole thing is that he's going to try to prove a point. It doesn't matter what it costs him. So, So, he says that he's got the money to take it to the limit. Do I understand that correctly that that property has never paid commercial taxes?

I have no idea. I look just because it's zone commercial doesn't mean you pay commercial taxes because there's a hundreds of properties that are residential commercial enterprise don't you pay commercial taxes? So yeah. So so on residential property you get taxed commercial if you're doing commercial business commission a commercial entity and backwards too, right? If you're a commercial business, if your property zone commercial, you should pay commercial taxes. That's across the hall. That's not planning. That's called the assessor's office. Assessor's office. Yeah. That's the state. I mean, the assessor's office. And

just doing research on this, he had never paid even the the old guy that owned it, you know, that was doing the painting never paid commercial property taxes. All of a sudden the commission that was just right residential. Okay, we have a motion somebody. Oh, motion to adjurnn. Motion by Jason. Uh second I was to adjourn, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. 7:30 74. Yeah.