Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. We'll call the meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission to order at this time. Kirsten, will you do the roll call?

Okay. Commissioner Conrad?

Here.

And Commissioner Ellum?

Here.

Commissioner Simmons? Commissioner Wolf? Here. Commissioner Peterson?

Here.

Vice Chair Whitaker, Chair Peterson, Chair, Parson. Here.

Item C, we have a citizen communication from Judy. Judy.

Good morning or evening. It's night. Judy Anderson, President of Round Rock Preservation. Just wanted to give you a quick reminder about the Discovering Round Rock History program set for Tuesday, October 28, noon to one over at the Baca Center. If you are able to attend, we hope that you can be there.

Our speaker is Tim Todd and he is a descendant of the Todd family, of course, but Colonel Todd who was part of the army colony and purchased the Mexican school house and renovated that in the 50s. So he'll be talking about the army colony, Interstate 35 and it's coming about in that area, it should be very informative history program for us. And I mentioned to you at the work session that we were doing history presentations, schools and some senior living facilities. The senior living facilities have been very interested. We have gained some new members to round our preservation, which is, was one of our goals of doing that, and we're excited about that.

And also, one of the facilities will be bringing a van full of their residents to the Lunch and Learn to the history program on October 28. And then Frank Darr, our vice president, presented a signed copy of Elroy Hoverleith book, Kenny Ford, to the Baca Center Library. So that's what I have for an update for you. Any questions for me? All right, thank you.

Stand for the pledges, please. We need to approve the minutes. Consider approval of the minutes of 05/20/2025 historic preservation commission meeting. Do I have a motion?

I move that we approve the minutes of the 05/20/2025 b c meeting as presented.

Second.

All in favor? This will call of commissioner Conrad?

Yes. Commissioner Alm? Yes. Yes. Commissioner Wolf?

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson? Yes. Chairperson?

Yes. E two, consider approval of the minutes of the 09/16/2025 historic preservation commission work session.

Could we have a motion? Mr. Ellum's noted a couple of corrections in those in the, items C1 and C2. It's a spelling error. Andrew, And, did, for C2, weren't sure Commissioner Ellemore or if you nominated Sharon as vice chair.

We

had a correction. We weren't sure on item c two if it was, either you or Commissioner Ellum that nominated nominated Sharon.

I don't remember.

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

And then we I also moved to, correct my name on

the Yeah.

Thank you.

So I move to accept the minutes as amended for the September 16 HPC work session. I second it.

Okay. Commissioner Conrad? Yes. Commissioner Ellum? Yes. Commissioner Wolf?

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson?

Yes.

Chair Parson?

Yes. Item f, certificate of appropriateness. Consider a presentation and action regarding a certificate of appropriateness for 105 East Main Street, HP 20 Five-twenty 3.

Okay. Good evening, commissioners. So this is concerning 105 East Main, known as or referred to as the Old Harris store Stockbridge grocery. It was built in 1876, about the same time as 01/2001 and 01/2003. The three those three were are very similar buildings, and then they were they were all built to the first year that the train station opened.

The this tonight the the case tonight concerns a rear addition that was added in the nineteen nineties as a concrete block that was painted. And the request is to appeal a denied administrative certificate of appropriateness for a mural painted on the west wall of 105 East Main by and for the neighboring business at 103 East Main. I'll go back first so you can see the photo. Okay. And how this came about, the neighboring business owner had asked 105 East Main to paint a mural on the west wall which faced their back patio.

And 105 had replied, yes, as long as this as preservation staff approved. Then business owner then emailed staff their plans to paint the wall a different color with murals, but did not submit a a CFA application. The mural, was then completed without a CFA. He when by the time I the time I saw it, it was pretty much it was almost done and informed him that a solid color would be okay because the wall was previously painted. The mural would not be permitted, although if they wanted an image, they could paint it on a large panel and attach it to the wall of the building.

And also that one 105 would need to be the one to apply for the C of A since it's their wall. And so then that was applied and I denied it with the condition to paint over the mural by 04/30/2026, the end of the or before the inspections for the next year's tax exemption. Also gave conditions for painting on panels if should he choose to do that. In the current status, it's a zoning violation. Business owner who is here tonight is appealing the denial of the administrative C of A THPC as is permitted by ordinance.

So looking at the Secretary's guidelines, the Secretary's standards are a little too big picture for this, but in the guidelines, in several sections, they conclude that masonry surfaces should not be painted unless that was their historic condition, and mostly because historically significant features should be preserved in their historic condition. Kind of a basic of preservation. Also, it's very difficult to remove paint from masonry without damaging it, and not when something's been painted, it's not always possible to return it back to its historic condition. Most contemporary paints, like latexes, also vapor barriers and they can trap moisture within the walls and lead to spalling and molds and so on. If the on the other hand, if the historic condition was to be painted, then the aim is to keep the paint in good condition.

So in this, applying to this particular case, the concrete block wall is not historic or character defining and has always been painted, so the technical things don't apply as much. The wall is, however, part of a contributing structure in a National Register District and has H overlay. And the appropriateness concern here is compatibility with the historic part of the building and with the historic district as a whole and with precedents that we've, what we've told other people. Previously, we have not allowed painting on masonry, even nonhistoric masonry, and the reason for that is it's difficult to explain to someone that they can that the property owners, they look at each other's properties and take that as a precedent for what they can and can't do. And as you know, there's often a lot of people will ask for forgiveness instead of permission.

There's and we don't want someone with historic masonry assuming that they can that they can paint it because they've seen painted masonry somewhere else. Once something's painted, it's really hard to tell whether it's historic or not. So someone's not going to see it and automatically assume that it's not historic, therefore it has a different therefore it gets treated differently. So we have allowed paintings on separate panels attached to the masonry and mortar joints. So the recommendation and this is the recommendation that was in the denial.

So although the wall is previously painted and is not of historic age, staff recommends denial of the CFA in order to be consistent with previous cases and avoid misleading other property owners. So and as for conditions, we recommend that the murals must be painted over in a solid color by specific date. It was April 30 before. You could change that if you want. It should indicate that the color peppercorn is appropriate, which is what I had told them that it was appropriate.

And I said that because the only colors that are really prohibited are neon and day glow type colors. But if you feel that it's not complementary to the district as a whole or such, you can find otherwise. For conditions concerning paintings on panels, the attachment anchors must be embedded in the mortar, not in the concrete block, not drilled into the concrete block. The materials that are permitted for, for the painting panels are the same as those permitted for panel signs in the downtown special areas. And there are materials that are available larger than four by eight feet, you're not limited to, to what you can get in plywood.

They're not easy to transport when they get that large. The panel may not be internally illuminated and before installing, send a diagram of proposed artwork to sign review planner. That is because some content is considered signage and the size is limited there. Did you have any questions or?

For

the other ones that we have not approved previously, were they currently were they in a status of being, like, on an already painted wall?

No. Well, okay, one of them was. There was a a nonhistoric building that when there was a Mexican restaurant going into 01/2018, they had asked if they could paint a mural on the cooler, which is a separate building, not historic. And we had told them they could only do it on a panel, and they decided that wasn't gonna work for him for them. There was 119 East Main.

That actually was also not quite, precedent because it was a 100 year old stucco, and it was something that was painted on it and then we marked that as a violation and then realized just how much repair the stucco itself needed, along with the other repointing. And so it kind of got taken care of that way. There is one other example of painted concrete block downtown and that's I believe that was built before the district was formed, so before 1982. And in that case is where the neighbors and again a back patio situation where they and in that case the guy had painted on his neighbor's wall without getting a CBA and without asking the neighbor about it. And so the neighbor was disliked by it, by the way, because he was worried about his property taxes.

And there were that was brought to the neighbor's attention And there were a number of things that that particular tenant had done without certificate of appropriateness or in some cases without a building permit. And so there there was kind of a list. And I don't think we had to bring it up again, but by the next year it was painted over.

Okay. And I don't know, but what is the so if they choose not to paint over it, then obviously they have to fail them for their next review.

It being the neighbor? Yeah. Yeah, I assume in that case, correct me if I'm wrong, but in that case it would be up to the wall's owner to paint it over. Okay. Being their wall.

So any sorry, that's really loud. Anytime there's not a certificate of appropriateness, it's considered a zoning violation and there's a process associated with the zoning violation, where there can be daily fines. Typically, we don't go that route. We try to find a way to work with the property owner to come to some agreement, and that's what we're trying to do here. It's a little complicated, obviously, because it's another property owner's wall that's being utilized but generally zoning violation exists and could be subject to fines our way of typically handling things is through the tax exemption.

If we took it all the way to court and had a judge assign them and all that but yeah it's a pure a per day fine. I guess we're not assessing, not keeping track of that right now since it's under appeal. Thank you. Would you you like to hear from the applicant?

We have a question. Have a question. About the property, would you like to speak?

Hello. So I'm the guy who started all this. So basically, we just kind of went for it. It was explained to me when we got there. I guess it was one of the building owners or one of guy who handles the owner's property that kind of pointed out everything that couldn't be messed with or couldn't be changed.

And anyway, I didn't know until later on that there was this whole thing that you had to, you know, I've dealt with like San Marcos historic stuff and stuff like that. I just didn't know it was this extensive. So anyway, we checked with the next door neighbor to make sure it was fine, that it was painted and stuff. Honestly, by the time we got through all that, I knew that I probably should have put in for it. But one thing that got me is it wasn't just with the mural and stuff, it was as far as the fence.

You know, I don't know if y'all remember Liberty Barbecue, but that backyard was destroyed. It was a mess. So I just thought I was making it look better and I didn't pick crazy colors or anything. I did not honestly think it would be a problem because Main Street Bar's wall was all tore up or, you know, it's like a tin wall and there were wires hanging everywhere. So we hired an electrician put the wires back right and we repainted the tin.

And then on the neighbor's wall, it was that off white, but it still looked pretty bad just I guess from the smokers and how Liberty took care of the back. So I just picked a color light peppercorn, then I was like, you know, we had to build a fence that, you know, they want you to build a six to eight foot fence to, you know, to where you block the view of the public. So I really didn't think a mural would be affecting anything, you know, but again, I should have checked first. But now that we are here, it is like if you're walking down the alley at night, unless you're coming off the bridge, you really can't see the mural because we have plants and stuff outside to where it blocks it. And it is really just for our little environment in our back.

So I don't it'd be you know, like if you're going to put a mural on a wall facing, you know, the street or something, you have to get a permit for that. So I really didn't think it would be that big of a deal, you know, because it's in our backyard, you know. So that's that. And I know, you know, if if we have to and I'm fine with it, I'll I'll paint over it and then do the panels for the mural, you know, but I feel like it's already there. I know in the front of the building like the tattoo shop, they have vinyl stickers in the windows, kind of like murals and stuff like that.

So I honestly didn't see any difference. I guess there's a difference in size now, you know, what can fit on a piece of plywood. But anyway, I think repainting over it and then drilling in the wall and mounting plywood and stuff like that would probably do more damage than just having a mural there over the time of our lease or whatever, however long we're there and then just painting over it again once we move out or whatever. I just I really don't see the significance in that. And if you do go down the street, there is agave or something like that that clearly has a mural facing the alley, which is facing the public.

And another thing, it's actually their logo, which I think having a sign, if I'm not wrong, having a sign is against the rules too, you know, like painted sign, guess is that how it works? Like you can have like a thing that says bar good times or something like that but you can't have like your logo on it. Correct?

If it's considered a sign, it's just that the size is limited. Whereas if it's art, then there's no real size. The issue is more putting paint on masonry. And in this case, is it is it was already painted.

Right.

So the it's there's because there's a danger in damaging property, historic masonry when it gets painted. And this is even though this is not historic masonry and was already painted, it's kind of calling attention to the fact that this is a painted surface. And and as as you've noted, people look at each other's at each other's property and just to kind of guess what they're allowed to do.

That's another thing. And you know, like I said before, I'll do whatever we have to do so it doesn't affect our neighbors and stuff. But it would make it a lot easier if there was like something that just said, you know, like the things that I sent you or I guess it was another guy we were talking to, a partner of mine was talking to that kind of gave us, you know, like as far as the fence it was something totally different in the code book as opposed to like when I asked you guys, it was like, it comes down to it'd be nice if there was just like somewhere where somebody could look to be like, don't touch this, don't do that, don't do that. But it does seem like it's just left up to whatever, which I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but what you all feel is appropriate as opposed to just having some guidelines to stick to. You know, before, you know, we get into a mess like this that we have some guidelines.

You know.

Yeah. To be to be fair, we are currently revising the the art as historic design guidelines because they they are twenty five years old and haven't been. And they're they're only on a PDF. They're not that searchable and things.

But just real quick, but it's like the same thing with the fence. Like the code guy sent us a thing saying it had to be eight feet tall and block the view of the public. But we also were approved to get like a rod iron fence put in which blocks nothing and it's only six foot. So it's just some like, you know, it's it's like, you know, and then the same thing with the bed, there's a back bar in the back and it was real tore up the brick and stuff from them. I guess from the smokers and conduit and then there was like concrete in it, like it looked really bad.

So I painted it blue. We were told or we were sent this little piece that said, know, of course you can't do it to the original limestone or anything that fixes, you know, if you have if it's like busted or something like that, you can't do anything to that. But this was like a building built after the fact. It's not you know, it's like a newer building. I think it was like 2013 or something like that. So we thought that would be okay, but apparently that's not either. So it's just it's just kinda, you know.

The the cooler thing, that's actually the next agenda item because it's a different address, so it's a different case.

So, okay, so as far as the mural goes, I don't mind painting over it, but I know it's probably to teach me a lesson, know, don't just do things without getting approval or whatever. But honestly, did think it was in our own little thing and as long as it wasn't facing the public that we didn't need a permit. But we talked about that and you're really cool at least letting us go till April with it or whatever. And we will correct it if need be. But if it comes down to painting over it and putting it on a piece of plywood and then mounting it to the wall.

I think what's already done is less, it's already painted on there. Don't know, I think I'm not saying let it slide, but I think that'd be a lot more like damaging to the building than just painting a mural on there or having a mural painted on there. That's about it. Do I just walk backwards? Just step I

want to thank you for trying to make it aesthetically pleasing as possible.

I think

it And works I also want to acknowledge that the Secretary of Interior guidelines need to be followed for consistency.

Yeah, I know. Also she's been really cool about

it.

And I also want to acknowledge communication for other vendors and property owners as well. So thank you so much.

No problem. Any

other discussion of commissioners? Do we want to put forth the motion?

I would make a motion that we approve the staff recommendation to deny the certificate of appropriateness and to approve their recommendations, for panel options for the mural as listed.

Could you specify a date associated with repainting, and also if you agree with the color that is currently

Okay.

The background color?

Do I have to repeat all of it or just add to?

You can amend what you've already said.

So I would amend my motion to approve the staff recommendation to deny the certificate of appropriateness and approve the panel recommendations as listed with a date of that was April 2026 to be completed for the next session and to stick with the color of peppercorn.

April 30?

Do you have a second? I'll second the motion.

Ready for a vote? Or are there other discussion?

Any other?

I

would move that I would like to would I do a motion at this time?

We we do have the motion. Tammy made the motion. I was seconding the motion, right?

Yeah. If there's

a motion, we have to vote on it, and then we could entertain another motion if it fails.

We could also have discussion on the motion.

Right? Motion to discuss. Would it be possible since the mural is already there at this moment in time at a later date by April 2026 or exceed it until it needs maintenance or update, based on the lease of how long the vendor is gonna be there, then change the color to peppercorn. Would that be possible?

My thinking that that would go against the precedence set with the other, previous, certificate appropriateness issues. So it seemed like that was important to staff to follow what you had previously followed based on the secretary's recommendations.

The commission can break precedent, I can't. Staff staffs can't, but he but realize if you do, it becomes pressing.

I would like to adhere to the Secretary of Interior's guidelines, but do it at a time when the maintenance is required and at that time change it to peppercorn.

I would agree with that because I don't painting over a wall that's already been painted

Exactly.

Is like, okay. That doesn't that doesn't jive for me. It's like, I understand he shouldn't have done it, but at same time, it's already painted. And if we amend it to say that at the next time it needs to be touched up or there can't be any maintenance done to it, then it needs to be painted over. That makes sense.

And we can also adhere to the code violation at that time, which we tried to work with them and that's what we're doing at this moment.

So believe that would need a different motion. Is that correct? Correct?

We need to vote on this now first and then we go to next motion.

Unless she wants to amend the motion.

Would you like to amend it? No. Okay.

So yeah, we'd have to vote on it.

Okay. Commissioner Conrad? Yes. Commissioner Ellum? No. Commissioner Wolf? No. Commissioner Peterson?

No. Chair Parson? No.

So then we will need a new motion.

I move that, the color be changed at a later time when maintenance is required, based on the individual's lease to the color of peppercorn, which is appropriate. And also, at that time, concern, after painting, replacing the mural with panels. And it should be drilled to the mortar rather than to the concrete block. And the materials permitted for the panel are signed in the d t specials areas that are allowed. The panel may not be internally illuminated.

And the diagrams of proposed artwork for any future murals to the city sign reviewers to confirm whether the portion of the mural would be considered signage and therefore subject to signage ordinance.

I'll second that.

Are you ready for a vote?

Okay. Okay. Commissioner Conrad? No. Commissioner Ellum? Yes. Commissioner Wolf?

Yes. Commissioner Peterson?

Yes.

Chair Parson? No. Do we need to have four or just the majority of people who are here?

The majority of Okay. People who are

Well, consider a presentation and action regarding a certificate of appropriateness for 103 East Main Street, HP 20 Five-twenty 4.

So this is, again, the neighboring property. This is about 103 East Main for the Williamson Grocery Miller's Exchange Bank, built at the same time as 101 And 105. On this one though, the facade was replaced early in the twentieth century. The current facade dates only to 1972. And what the case concerns is a rear cooler addition.

There's a cooler counter that was put in in 2013. Since then, the previous tenant before, before the current tenant, had used the patio as a barbecue pit area, and, and the current tenant has has made a lot of effort to bring it back to being a customer area. And this is, this again is another retroactive certificate of appropriateness for painting the brick addition blue. Paint was partly to disguise a layer of barbecue soot and damage where the previous tenant had attached conduit and other items to it partly and partly because he didn't like the brick color. He did not apply for a certificate of appropriateness, but he said he checked online that it was permitted as long as he used masonry, breathable paint.

He sent a screenshot of that and frankly it looked like an AI answer on there. And then the color here is Annapolis blue. Correct me if that was wrong. The color Annapolis blue was chosen because it complements the art deco theme decor on the inside of the restaurant. And again going back to the secretary's guidelines, the reason for not allowing painting of masonry is to, unless it was their historic condition was that the historically significant features should be preserved in their historic condition.

It's very difficult to remove paint from masonry without damaging it. May not be possible to return that feature to its historic condition. And although most contemporary paints are also vapor barriers and can trap moisture, masonry paint is breathable and does not. But they are harder to remove. So staphanalysis on here is again the brick edition again is not historic and it's not character defining, but it wasn't painted before.

The edition is part of a contributing structure in the National Register District and it has an H overlay. So the appropriateness concern is compatibility with the historic part of the building in the district and also with precedent. Previously, we haven't allowed painting on masonry, even non historic masonry, because we don't want to imply to people who look at other property owners that they can do this on their property. And another consideration is it may not be possible to remove the paint now. So the potential remedies that Steph or at least not remove it without a chisel Steph's suggestions for potential remedies was to remove the paint.

There is a newer technique called laser paint removal, which causes relatively little damage to the substrate but without knowing what type of paint masonry paint it was or consulting a laser cleaning specialist can't really know whether that's a really realistic removal method or not. Also since the BRIC isn't historic, commission might authorize more aggressive removal methods such as sandblasting, which would result in some damage to the building, but if it's it's not to the brick. But again, it's not historic brick. If the paint is not removable, the HBC may consider whether the Annapolis blue color is acceptable or whether it signals whether as being a bright color it says it's saying kind of signals this is painted brick and, sends more of a signal to other property owners that painting masonry is okay. And if so, the addition could be repainted another color closer to that of bricks like the concrete block where in the other example it was painted a beige color like kind of similar to the limestone.

It was kind of in the background and doesn't, you know, shout I'm painted, then it's a little little more subtle, a little less likely to inspire others. So again the staff recommendation for this is although the historic edition is not of historic age, the staff recommends denial of the certificate of appropriateness in order to be consistent with previous cases and avoid misleading other property owners about painting masonry. And for potential conditions, the blue paint must be removed from the brick edition by the end of the year or a time period of the HPC's preference. Laser removal is the preferred method followed by mechanical methods. Or you may say the brick addition is to be repainted in a color resembling natural clay brick or specify another color that feels more appropriate.

Natural clay brick being something between buff and red.

Do you have any questions? Any discussion? Would you like to speak again? So,

yeah, that's what I was getting at earlier. That brick was destroyed. Either way it went, we were going to have to do something different with it anyway. If the color blue signals to other people it's okay to paint the brick. But again, I think some clear definition when people move in, they kind of get a pamphlet, all right, you're moving into a historic building, you can't paint that, you can paint that.

But just like the owner walked us through everything. But either way it went, we were going to need to redo that break because it was destroyed and know, had from the barbecue place being back there and then all the conduit lines running in and out of it and stuff like that. So I don't think it was just the blue looks great. It looks really good, but it wasn't just because of that. Was to fix it and make it look like it wasn't fixed because we had to fill in some holes and etc.

And stuff like that. So we filled them in and then we painted it one solid color. I just chose the same blue that was on inside because it looks good. But either way it went, whether we would have had to tear the break down and redo it or whatever else we would have did something to it either way. So, I just think the blue looks good.

But again, it's not I understand you don't want people just painting what they want and stuff like that. But it is kind of even in the state it was, even if it was brand new, I mean it looks after the fact. It did not look like it was part of the natural structure at all. The brick was like a brown brick or something like that. So I would suggest or I would ask that if, you know, and I completely understand if I have to do it, but if I cannot leave it blue or as is, I'd also suggested wood.

I could wood panel it on the outside. That would look good So, you know, that's about it.

Commissioners, you have any other questions?

So this is a question for you, sir. I'm sorry, your name. I apologize.

What was it?

Rashad.

Rashad.

Rashad. Sorry. So you would be willing to repaint it?

I I don't think,

Could you come to the microphone? I'm sorry.

I'd I'd like to do I mean, looks nice now. We kind of filled in because there were big holes and, you know, they had a like a little rodent problem while they were closed down from all of it. And it looked like there was just a lot of after the afterthoughts, you know, like work done in there. So we would have had to have done some to it anyway. So I think rather than repainting it, we just like I said, we can do the wood slats all the way around. I think that would look good. But if it really came down to it, we would just tear all the brick, the old brick, tore a brick out and just redo it in brick if you all really wanted it to be brick, but you know.

Thank you.

No problem.

Any other discussion or questions? I'll entertain a motion.

Oh, I'm

thinking. I knew you knew

you thinking. Did you I'm sorry.

You said He's just waiting for a motion.

Oh.

Please.

I mean, if we did have to do something really quick then

Could you go to the microphone?

Yes.

Thank you.

Sorry. Everything has to be on If

we did need to

do something really quick then I I guess we could repaint it a different color or a more natural color. But if

We'll give you time.

Okay. Yeah. Rather than do it like a natural because the thing is, if you it's like the brick that was there before. If you put that beside a historic building, you know, with the natural limestone or the old limestone or whatever they used, I mean, it just does not look good. It just it just doesn't.

So I'd like to have the option to maybe wood panel it, if anything. I think that looked really good. And do like a dark stain, kind of like the owners of the building were really attached to the flag stone that was on the ground even though the smokers they had back there just destroyed it. It was no good. So anyway, they approved we built a small deck over the really tore up part. So maybe I could do something like that and do wood paneling on the side of that little building. Think that

would You mean cover it with wood?

Yeah, yes. Kind of like siding yeah, just wood siding or something like that. And instead of so it basically looked better than just painting it a taupe or, you know, clay or something like that. Because even the brick that was there was like brown and black. It was made to kind of match, but it still even in its best format, I don't think it did any justice to the original stone. So I'd like to have the option at least if we had to do some to stay in y'all's guidelines or whatever, but at least make it look really nice.

Nice. Joelle or Kirsten, since the brick does not have a historic condition, would that be an option instead of Sure.

They would need a separate certificate of appropriateness, and it would have to come back to the commission for consideration.

And then we'll do it over. But you could apply to do that, in other words, to Okay.

But that's not what's being considered this evening, so

Right. Now we have to do

act in some way

on this application. This then

Okay. So tonight, it is so is it more so because it's not historic bricks. So is this more so of the color or I don't understand. So if I'm gonna be asked to repaint the brick, something that goes in, you know, something that matches more with the limestone that's there, whatever I painted, it's it's gonna look like painted brick.

Can I clarify? Yes, please. So the brick should not have been painted at all. But now that it has been painted, there are those remedies that Kirsten provided, either removal of paint or repainting, so it looks more similar to what was there. The key there being we don't want to set a precedent that it's okay to paint brick if someone were to paint some of the other historically significant brick downtown without seeking a certificate of appropriateness prior.

Then we would have a similar situation, but it would be worse because it would be a historically significant portion of a wall. So our thinking was, if it's not possible to remove, which might be the best option, then and if there's concerns about the condition of the brick underneath, then creating a wall that is less noticeable that just sort of blends in and looks like it was before is at least not calling attention to the painting of the brick, or at least that's our hope. It's still not ideal, but the situation now is that the brick has already been painted, and then how does that get handled going forward? In in terms of certificate of appropriateness, an applicant is required for any change to the exterior to apply for a certificate of appropriateness, whatever it is. And then, you know, there's if it's maintenance, it's not necessary, or some go to the commissioner, some go to staff.

So in this case, you know, it's a painted surface that was not supposed to be painted, and that's why it comes to you versus a regular staff review for a painted surface. In terms of the wood, you would act on this certificate of appropriateness determining what should happen to the wall now, and then if there's a desire to change material that would come in as a separate certificate of appropriateness that also requires commission review because it's a change of

material. So

here So take, I'm sorry to

Go ahead.

But taking the paint back off would leave the it would it would leave it exposed to its original condition before we painted it, was it was all tore up like it was, you know, they just

Let me read the staff recommendation. Although addition is not of historic age, the staff recommends denial of the certificate of appropriateness in order to be consistent with previous cases, and avoid misleading other property owners. Blue paint must be removed from the brick addition by the end of the year, or if we decide later to give you more time, laser removal is the preferred method followed by mechanical methods. Or, the brick addition is to be repainted in the color resembling the natural clay brick, or a specific color that the HPC believes is more appropriate. Because the bottom line is the brick was not supposed to have been painted Right.

I got I got you.

And if you deem appropriate that painting is the way to go forward, the staff could still approve whatever is selected since we don't have a selection of color now. So that could be added to the motion.

So would stucco be an option? Like just stucco the thing? Because that that brick really was bad.

Agreed. And to be fair, the photo earlier, that was before the barbecue place went in. So it didn't necessarily look like that now. If you did stucco, that would be another change of materials like doing wood, which would have to be that's something that staff can't approve, but the HBC can. The next scheduled meeting will be in November.

Okay. Yeah, because even I just don't think even when we had the conversation before taking the paint, I mean, it it it wouldn't it would need to be redone anyway, you know, either way it went, you know, so.

Can So You know,

it's just blue of it blue kind of covers it. You know, that's another reason why I picked that. Like a natural color just wouldn't cover all the imperfections and stuff. But the blue, and especially when it gets in the evening time, it's dark. So you're not really looking at all the holes or the cement or the stuff like that. But if we did that, they have to go that route instead of laser removing it, we just, either, like, stucco it or wood panel it or something that would, you know, look good and also blend in with the

So can That would

be a later

Oh, that's a later time.

Okay. Yes. Mhmm. So at this moment in time, I would like can we can I just go ahead and make the motion?

Maybe we have some

Go ahead.

We have more discussion.

Go ahead.

I was just gonna ask if he's thinking of other material options, but we have this certificate of appropriateness here, can we just can he withdraw this certificate and present a different one in November with the materials that he would rather use, and then we have that? Or do we have to vote on this, and then he does the other?

You have to vote. You can vote to postpone to a certain date. Understanding though that, you know, if he changes his mind or doesn't submit a certificate of appropriateness, the best thing would be have conditions in there of what you want to occur in the future. Okay, thank you.

Okay, so I'm going to make a move a motion to by the next HPC, you're gonna resubmit a certificate authentication, a COA. And by that time, if that is not placed by November 2026, brick addition is to be repainted in the color resembling the natural clay brick that is in a line with the historical district color guidelines.

Okay. So just to be clear, blue is not in line with the historical guidelines?

Correct.

Okay.

So anybody want a second? Did you get to finish your motion? Yeah. Yeah.

I'll second it.

Can I ask for clarification? You said November 2026?

Yeah. Well, I should say next month. Let me clarify it. So I said one year from now, but I meant to say 2025. I appreciate 're following up on that. So you would resubmit that sort of critical authentication with the request that you're asking at this moment in time.

Okay.

Otherwise, you will follow-up with repainting it by then.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And it will be the color that's in line with the historical district.

So it's the sorry. It's so it's the November?

November meeting. Yes.

So but is there a clear color palette that's in line with the historic? That that

Can I answer that?

Yes.

So we don't have an adopted palette, and you would still need a certificate of appropriateness to change the color. So you would need to select a color, and then it would be beneficial if staff just included that as part of the motion to come in and have that color approved versus having him submit a separate certificate of appropriateness. We can just amend this one once he selects a color.

And I'm sorry, this might be a dumb question. I feel like y'all y'all are, you know, I I I don't want to overstep, but so if I submitted blue with that automatically is am I pushing it? I am I push up.

It is. It is. So thank you for asking that quote. You're asking for clarification and I I would encourage you to continue doing that.

Okay.

We want to have it more in line with what the historical district looks like. I know we made an exception of the other previous one and I know your frame of thought is, but we're trying to make sure that what your efforts are, you know Right. Bring in

I I got

are being valued as well.

I got it. Yes, ma'am.

All right. Thank you.

And just to clarify on the mural, we're talking about previously painted concrete block, and this is previously painted unpainted brick. So those are different in preservation language.

Any questions for us?

Oh, no. I'll go back to my So

we have a motion.

Do we

have a second for the motion?

Yes. Do

we need discussion on the motion?

Yes. You're free to discuss before we vote. Does anybody else have anything?

Just to clarify, are we saying stucco is gonna be okay over the brick or is that not in line with the historic?

So we'll we'll be discussing that next time the COA is submitted.

But just to clarify, the motion is saying that we're not gonna do anything now. We're suggesting he brings a new certificate next meeting with what he wants to do stucco or wood. But if he doesn't show up with that, then he has to paint it an appropriate color, which is not blue. Correct. That's what all that Yes. Question. Is that

Yes. It's the

A color that is approved by staff if you add that to the motion which hasn't been added to the motion

at Yeah. This the color that HPC believes is more appropriate.

So is that now the motion amended to have that?

That is the motion amended. Thank you.

And I'll second it if I need to again.

Ready for a vote? Okay. Okay.

Ready for

Commissioner Conrad? Yes. And Commissioner Allen? Yes. Commissioner Wolf?

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson?

Yes.

Chairperson?

Yes. Item g, HPC goals. Okay. Consider a discussion and action regarding the historic preservation commission's draft draft goals for FY twenty six.

So if you remember, at the work session, you all created a list of priorities which is now a red line in your packets. That is up for discussion, amendment, and hopefully vote if you're ready, this evening. Once you adopt the goals, they're for you to use for the, fiscal year, but also we send them to the Texas Historical Commission. I don't have a presentation in terms of the content. You can just, decide if you want to make any amendments. They are exactly as you stated in the work session. We did not add or change anything.

Point of information for item, it's lined item lined out 7.6. Determine how the city communication department, can assist. Did we clarify how, the social media campaign would promote local agents?

What what we were going

to do specifically that we would ask the communication department? Commissioner Farson?

No, I don't recall.

Okay. I think the goal is to adopt the goals, then, if if that's what you deem as being adopted, then we would move forward with working on those. Okay.

And you're saying it would mean move forward to the move forward to who?

If you adopt the goals this evening, these would be your goals for the coming year. So you would need to, in the coming year, says, determine how the city's communication department can assist with increasing awareness. So at that point, once you've adopted your goal, then we would decide how to proceed with that.

Okay.

So tonight, either adopting or not adopting them, and then move forward as we discuss them.

So adopting all the goals in one lump sum, or there's no discussion on the, items, correct?

You can discuss, amend, do anything you want with this until you take a vote and adopt them. Okay.

So I would like to discuss, line item 7.6 to, you know, we're gonna determine how communication how are we gonna determine that?

Commission person.

Do you have a suggestion?

I don't. That's, it was placed placed in there

for one of the requirements, as a goal. I

So that's why I was asking. I don't have any suggestions.

Well, once we adopt the goals, then we can amend and clarify and do whatever we want with them as we move forward.

Just to clarify, you won't be amending the goal. You'll just be determining how to implement the goal.

Would you repeat that? I'm sorry.

Just to clarify, you won't be amending the goal once it's adopted unless you bring that forward as an item, but you will be determining how you implement these goals over the coming year.

Thank you for a better word.

So at this time, we don't have any ideas of any how we're gonna determine this.

What what I think you were saying is we don't have to have the implementation steps until we have the goals. Is that what you were saying earlier?

Typically, you all create the goals of what you hope to achieve over the coming year, and it may take the entire year before any action, occurs. In the case of this, I mean, we work with the city's communication department all year. We promote local legends. They put posts on social media about, historic items of interest. You know, we can go to them and talk to them about post, you know, having additional posts or or coming to you.

We had talked about having them come here and and discuss with you all, but the idea is to adopt the goal and then continue on forward. And you can specify a request, for instance, if if you're interested in having an item on the agenda, you know, a discussion in the November meeting or whatever it is, can send in a request to have something added to the agenda or if we want to have a meeting with communications, I can certainly ask them. I can't guarantee that they can come to our November meeting or something like that. But if you all are requesting discussion with them, then I can certainly ask them.

I think if the goals are there, we would be requesting. Correct?

The implementation of the goals, as I understand, will take place over a period of time, not not fine tuning them tonight. Correct. Yeah.

And I understand that as well. So what I would like by the end of the year to have these goals met. Correct? And I I think you concur with that. Are

you saying the end of this 2025

or the I next

think that's a goal. That's why we set goals. Right?

Correct. Yes. And

if you have certain things you want to include in this text, you can amend that now before you vote if you want something more specific. It's up to you.

I so item seven, continue bullet item assist with writing articles and providing topics for Round Rock Historical Columns. Would that be commissioners that are doing this? Commissioners, would you share that light with them?

That was, a request that Round Rock Preservation made at the work session Okay. For you all

willing to continue to do is right?

Yeah. I think that's why we had it on there that that's something we felt that we could do.

Okay. Alright. Great. Thank you.

We didn't say we could do it well.

Assist with writing articles and providing topics for Round Rob, history columns.

She may be sorry, she asked later.

Yes. It says or. Thank you, Judy.

Should

we change it to or? Writing or

And or and slash or? You can change whatever you'd like. It's fine. But these are goals.

And goals are something that I would like to achieve.

Any other discussion? Are we looking for a motion to adopt?

If you are ready If to do

you are ready. Do you have a motion? I

move that we adopt the goals as presented. That to be more elaborate.

I'll second.

For a vote. Commissioner Conrad?

Yes. Commissioner Ellum? Yes. Commissioner Wolf? Commissioner Peterson?

Yes.

And, Chairperson?

Yes. Item H, the planner report, H1, consider a monthly update regarding projects relating to historic preservation commission actions and goals.

Good evening, commissioners. I will highlight, a few items from your October monthly update. At the October 9 city council meeting, council proclaimed October 13 as indigenous Peoples' Day and the month of November as Native American Heritage Month. The twenty twenty five local legends will be presented to council at the November 6 meeting. There is an upcoming training that all commissioners have been registered for.

That is through the NAPC on October 30 from twelve to 01:30PM. And the topic is integrating preservation into municipal and planning processes. The next Lunch and Learn presented by Tim Todd, which Judy Anderson shared about earlier this evening is on October 28. That's at the Baca Center at noon. Do you have any questions or comments?

Thank you, Lily.

Thanks.

Item H2, consider discussion regarding upcoming preservation events and activities.

So just a reminder, this is your opportunity if you have things to add, events that you know about. About.

Would this be only preservation or just general announcement? General?

Mean, it should be preservation adjacent, probably.

Does anyone have anything to add? I think we have a lot going on as it is. And if there is no other discussion, item I is adjournment. So, thank you all so much.