Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

green light. Okay, it's 7 o'clock. I called to order the regular meeting of the Windsor Town Planning and Zoning Commission of September 9th. Mitch, do you want to read the preamble?

If there's anyone from the public who would like to address the commission, you may do so by raising your hand on your computer, if your device has a microphone capability, by selecting the participant's icon in the Zoom menu bar and then clicking raise hand or by dialing star nine on your phone. When you are called on, you will be prompted that you are now unmuted. Please state your name and address. For clear communication, we ask that you do not place the call on speakerphone.

Thank you. All right, we'll jump in the agenda. First, public communication petitions, five minutes per person, for anything that does not have to do with a public hearing tonight. Would anyone like to address the commission? Mitch, anyone online?

No one online.

Okay. Item B, communications and petitions from the commission. Does anyone have anything?

No.

No. Okay. Zoning offers, enforcement report, none. CGS, none. Pre-application, none. Reapprovals and extensions.

So there have been a number of reapprovals or site plan revisions approved since our last meeting. These include 4 and 8 Griffin Road. These were minor site improvements to the special use conversions that were approved at previous meetings. A site modification to 29 Windsor Avenue. And then another site plan revision for 90 Meadow Road and for 550 Marshall Phelps Road for directional signage. Well, thank you.

Yeah. Any updates on the plaza building?

I do not have any specific updates on the plaza building. There was an event held by the Windsor Arts Center two weeks ago, three weeks ago, where they were approved for kind of a limited use, and the fire marshal had a cap on the certain number of occupants and the spaces that they could occupy within the building. Beyond that, I don't have any additional updates, but they are looking at kind of possibly some... limited uses while we're working in that space. Anyone else?

Is it all completed inside downtown?

The restaurant area and kitchen portion have been substantially completed. The theater portion in the back, and it's been two or three years since I've been in there, I think. That still needed some substantial renovations, so that... And then there's some rooms upstairs. I blow up the restaurant and kitchen area that have been completed. But that theater, as last I was in there, still needed some work.

I seem to recall maybe a couple of years ago that we approved a dressing room for actors or something like that.

I did look back at there and I did find some previous approvals. I don't remember specifically addressing them, but there was something there that kind of caught me by surprise that was interesting to me too, but I can dig that up.

It would really be nice if they could finally finish that and get it open to the public on a regular basis. My understanding has been by people from Windsor downtown who have toured it that the restaurant facilities are up and ready to go and pretty marvelous.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, a really beautiful space in there, and the portion that I was in during the Shad Derby Festival was really beautiful. I don't know if there's any additional requirements from the fire marshal's office or the building official. I don't know where those permits kind of stand, but yeah, from my tour of it, it did look substantially complete.

Okay. Anyone else? Okay, move to site plans none. Minutes from July 14th.

I didn't find any corrections.

Good job.

I'll move approval of the minutes of July 14th.

Second.

Second that.

All approved? I mean, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes 5-0. Okay, planner support. Sure.

So welcome back, everyone. For me, it feels like it's been a while. It's actually been since June since I've been in here. So I hope everyone's had a good summer. And I think we have two more concerts on the town green hosted by the Windsor Art Center. So I always enjoy those during the summer and they kind of always signal that transition to fall for me. There are a number of projects that have been moving forward and are nearing completion or have made significant progress. all at various phases, but all moving forward. We expect the conversion at Dunphy Lane, the Marriott, to begin soon. Given the amount of time that's passed, I don't have specific updates, but if you have any questions for me, I'll happily answer as best I can. I do anticipate we will receive some additional applications this week for our October meeting, and it will be in compliance with our 30-day timeline. The other bit of news that I have is that Suzanne Choate, who on occasion has been before this commission and was our town engineer, has taken a new position with the town of Vernon as their town engineer. It's been both an honor and a pleasure working with Suzanne. I thoroughly enjoyed working with her and will miss her and wish her all the best in her future endeavors. Jenna Zinke has been promoted to the town engineer. Jenna had previously been our assistant town engineer and has been with the town for about 60 years and has kind of worked her way up through that department. It's also been an honor and a pleasure working with Jenna and I look forward to continue to working and collaborating with her in this new role. The other thing I want to mention is that the Walk of Lights honoring the 25th anniversary of September 11th will be this Friday on the town green starting at 6 and the luminaries will be on display until 9 p.m. I was looking at that page earlier today and I just saw a really beautiful quote about the event that I thought was very moving. This was on the 10th year anniversary. Last night's event was both moving and inspirational. I felt the sadness of 9-11 as I remember the dead and the broad impact of that day. But I also felt a stronger sense of community drawn from the resolve of the hundreds of Windsor residents on the green. The town green has never felt so sacred to me But what you created last night gives new meaning to that space. And that was Irby Mitchell from 2011. Volunteers are still needed for that event, and more information can be found by searching the Walk of Lights on the town's website. And that's all I have for updates.

Thank you. Any questions for the town planner? Okay. Miscellaneous. Connecticut Federation of Planning and Zoning Agencies summer issue. more than usual in there.

Well, I found one of these synopsis interesting that talks about unsupported expert witness testimony and the weight that the commission can place or not place upon it. So I think that would be something that would be very interesting for all of us to keep in mind when we have questions. hearings when we have expert witnesses and lay testimony.

Yeah, I found that section to be very interesting as well.

And for the public watching, that doesn't mean this.

What's that?

For the public watching, just explain to them what that was about.

Yeah, it had to do with whether or not the commission had to accept an expert witness witnesses testimony over lay testimony and the court found that it did not have to that that the unsupported expert the unsupported opinions Could be weighed equally to the expert ones including the opinions of the commissioners Who might been familiar with the subject property I Well, I didn't read that part in there, but whatever. For anybody who wants to look it up, it's Baywig LLC versus Water Pollution Control Authority, and it's 239 Connecticut App 153-2026. Fair enough. Anyone else?

All right, on to the business meeting, application acceptance. You just accept? No. So you're just accepting it for... Right. Scheduling it for our... Scheduling it for the next time. Mm-hmm. Okay. All those in favor of none, on to public hearings. First public hearing, special use.

Wait, I've got to read the... Oh, you have to read the notice.

Apologize.

Notice is hereby given that this commission will hold public hearings during its hybrid regular meeting at Town Hall on September 29, 2026 at 7 p.m. to hear and consider the following. One, special use, seven waterside crossing, section 8.6L, adaptive reuse in the I-zone, 8.11 acres, Windsor CT Properties LLC applicant. Special use re-approval 231 Dudley Town Road, section 10.5.8, garaged or open storage of commercial vehicles and 10.5.12, landscape contractor's yard in the AG zone, Burns applicant. Special use 235 Dudley Town Road, section 10.5.8, garaged or open storage of commercial vehicles and 10.5.12, landscape contractor's yard, AG applicant. in the AG zone, Burns applicant. Text amendment, section 3.3.1K and 3.3.1L, general requirements, conservation and traffic mitigation district, town of Windsor applicant. Special use, 570 Hayden Station Road, section 8.6V, brewery with a tap room in the I zone, 4.09 acres float house applicant. Special use reapproval, 770-800-808 Bloomfield Avenue, section 8.6b, outdoor storage in the I-Zone, Alfred Associates, Inc. applicant. Special use reapproval, 812 Bloomfield Avenue, section 8.6b, outdoor storage in the I-Zone, Alfred Associates, Inc. And the last one is design development detail Plan 1 and 10 Targeting Center and 465 Bloomfield Avenue, Phase 2, 201, Multifamily Units in the B2 and the RC Zone, Alfred Associates Applicant. This notice was published in the Hartford Courant on August 26th and September 2nd.

Thank you. So, first public hearing is special use for 7 Waterside Crossing. Is there anyone to present?

Brady Sullivan Properties. Can you guys hear me?

Is there anyone online?

Yeah, I think we have someone online, but I think the audio might be. Ben, can you hear us?

I can hear you guys. Can you hear me?

We can, but it seems to be coming out of a different microphone. Hold on a second. Let me, I think it's on our end. Ben, give me one moment. Okay.

Yeah, they just cursed for next month.

He's on his way back.

Ben, can you speak just so sweet?

Yeah, of course. Is that any better?

Much better, yes.

Great. So Ben Kafoury from Brady Sullivan Properties, 670 North Commercial Street, Manchester, New Hampshire. Good evening, counsel. I'm also joined today here with our local attorney, Carl Landolina from Fahey and Landolina Associates. Good evening. with us through a variety of our approvals. So I know we're kind of some familiar faces up again tonight for another special use approval. I do have a presentation prepared. Is that showing on your end? My apologies. I had a personal matter to take care of tonight in New Hampshire. So I was unable to make it down for the meeting.

No, we're not seeing it. It's trying to come through. There we go.

Now it is. Great. I believe also online tonight with us is Timothy Coon from JR Russo. He's our licensed engineer on our project. Tonight in front of you guys is our adaptive reuse application for 7 Waterside Crossing in Windsor, Connecticut. We're currently under contract on seven waterside crossing as well as five waterside crossing in the Day Hill corridor. If you go to the next slide, please. So I know we've been in front of you a few different times where my company is Brady Sullivan Properties. We've been revitalizing buildings and converting them into apartments and different uses over the past 30 years. Our portfolio is primarily in New England and we have been growing into different markets across the country over the past, three to four years in specializing in adaptive reuse in office buildings that were built around the 1980s era. Go to the next slide, please. So currently 7 Waterside Crossing is vacant and it's going to be delivered to us fully vacant. It's had troubled occupancy over the past year. Our plan is to redevelop the empty building into 57 apartments. via special use under permit section 8.6 L. I mentioned prior that we're also under contract on 5 Waterside Crossing and our plans with that building is to keep it a occupied office building. It is about 80% occupied right now and our goal is to drive that occupancy up with engaging a local broker so we can engage more office tenants and fill that building. Next slide, please. So we've been in front of you now a handful of different times. Our first two projects were one and three waterside crossing. We are completely under construction on those projects right now. We also are in full control of those buildings. We've closed and we're the owner on owners on record for both of those properties. I think the timeframe for construction is a. Hopefully what we're aiming for is a. Early spring delivery of those buildings and amenity areas. Our Griffin road properties were in front of you a few months back. And we are actually set to close and be owners of record on 4 and 8 Griffin road. By the end of this week, and we have our full building permit applications in for those. Properties as well, so those are in the building permit process. We plan to start construction on those as soon as we receive those permits. We've received approval for that project. We have approval and capacity for that project. So we're. Kind of right there with getting that 1 kicked off. As I mentioned before 5 water side is property we're in control of as well via recent transit contract. And so that is going to remain office and 7 water side is what we're here seeking special use approval for 57 additional units on tonight. Next please. I had our team do a overview of the buildings that we are in control of right now. As you can see the waterside, one and three waterside crossing buildings, the five and seven waterside crossing buildings, and then the six, Sorry, the 8 and 4 Griffin road buildings, they're outlined in red. The map also illustrates sidewalk connections that we're working on with planning staff. That's kind of been a big a big part of our thesis is creating. Interconnectivity between these buildings, so there are tenants can enjoy nice walks through the nature that this area has and. Hopefully, we'll also have renewed office life and the whole office mixed use park will kind of come together. We're also working with local property owners in the park to create other connections and other synergies throughout the park to really re, engage a lot of the empty space and reutilize it via different uses to really bring this. Part of Windsor back to life. If you go to the next slide, please.

Ben, just one moment. Before you go to the next slide, can you go back, Mitch, just one? I just want to point out for the benefit of the audience here and Mitch, if you could follow on the screen, the property that he was talking about, it's a little hard to see in red, but 1 and 3 Waterside Crossing, 4 and 8 Griffin Road here, and then the 7 Waterside Crossing.

So of those buildings, which will be residential and which will remain office?

So one in three waterside will be residential. Four and eight Griffin Road will be residential. Seven waterside crossing is going to be residential. And five waterside crossing is going to be office. And that's about an 85,000 square foot office building at about 80% occupancy currently.

And the building in between 4 and 8, 6 Griffin Road, will also remain as office?

Correct. Thank you, Todd.

Thank you.

So our current unit mix right now is 57 total units. That breaks down to 14 one bedrooms, 33 two bedrooms, and 10 three bedrooms. The average square foot... Size of the units is is. Larger compared to some of our other projects in our entire portfolio. I think these are. Some of the largest units that we have in these. Bedroom counts. And I know put town planning staff in our, in our feedback brought up tenant storage and a lot of the units also have larger closets in their, in their main entrances to accommodate for, you know, storage or, you know, anything that tenants might need for extra space. If you go to the next slide, please. So currently we're working on our site plan with our engineer and town staff. We, this building, unlike the others. Is connected to MBC Stewart, we're running capacity. Tests right now to see if we may need to upsize that with NBC. We have also started to draft our traffic impact study and statement with our traffic engineer. and we will have to go for OSTA approval on this as there's a general OSTA permit that exists in this park that we've had to navigate with on our other properties in the office park. 10% of the spaces will be EV ready. We have our wetlands delineated. We do have some activity in the wetland area, so we will be making a wetland application along with our site plan application if this meeting goes well.

Can I just interject something? Sure. Since there's been no wetlands determination, is this premature?

No, ma'am, not for a special use application for the conversion. If there are site plan improvements that are proposed to the site, which there are some, it will have to go before the Wetlands Commission or seek approval from the wetlands agent.

So any approval that we might give tonight would be conditioned upon approval by the Wetlands Commission?

don't think you have to put it as a condition of approval but yes that would be the procedure okay um so we're all and we're also working on pedestrian connectivity to our other properties um that we're redeveloping in the area and enhancing a landscape plan for town uh planning to review if you go to the next side please So our interior amenities for this project, we're really focused on engaging the existing main entrances of the buildings that exist. These buildings are definitely in much better condition than the other buildings that we've been redeveloping in the area. They have these beautiful resident lounge or office tenant lounge spaces. that we will create into resident lounge spaces. We'll also have grab-and-go kiosks for tenant convenience, whether that might be bottles of water Anything like that will have a grab and go convenience kiosk. We'll have Internet and Internet cafe in the main 4 year as long as well as a reading area. And we have been implementing Co, working spaces in many of our projects as well in the main entrances. For tenants to utilize. Our outdoor amenities will include a dog park. All our properties are pet friendly. We also have a courtyard patio that's existing. That's one of the most beautiful courtyards I've seen at an office property. It already has gas fireplaces and picnic tables, Adirondack chairs. So we'll really work to enhance that area. We'll add some grilling stations in there for The tenants to use, that'll be more shifted towards the 7 water side building. All this, all these properties have onsite parking for our tenants. And as I've mentioned previously, we really have a focus on. pedestrian connectivity to one and three waterside for an eight griffin road um and again working with other property owners in the um office park to create more connections throughout the park for seamless and connectivity um for sidewalks and walking paths next please So we're really hoping to bring a new use to this building to kind of address a vacancy issue and also help balance out the surplus of vacant office space in the market. We know that repositioning the building will restore it to a productive use and create a productive balance mix of uses in the park. And again, our adaptive reuse conclusion on this whole, corridor aligns with the day Hill study that was done about a year ago. And we're really excited to be working with town planning staff, and the commission on all these conversions. Our total unit mix is about is 57 units. And we're excited to be in front of you guys tonight. I appreciate the time.

When was this building built?

I believe it was 1982.

So you don't have any asbestos or lead paint issues?

No. We do conduct asbestos testing as part of due diligence as well. And if any exist, it would be abated.

One of the photographs showed an elevator. Are you going to maintain that elevator for the tenants?

We do. Yep. We do maintain elevators. We modernize them if need be. I was in the building a few months ago. It is in running condition. But obviously we have them, you know, with the buildings being vacant for a long time, sometimes the certificates expire or whatnot. So we have elevators go through a complete rehab phase. And re, inspection, so everything is up to par. Okay.

Have you already started the process with NBC?

We have yes, we've already calculated some of our flows and we've gotten them our proposed. I do believe we will need to upsize the domestic water to the building as well. I think it's currently around a two and a half inch connection and they've made us go to four inch connections on our other conversion projects. So we have started that conversation with JR Russo, our engineer and the MDC.

I have kind of a strange question. Waterside 1, but this is about Waterside 7, though, isn't it? Yes. Many years ago, there was a bridge across here talking about working with the neighbors, and there was this thing called Summer Wind at one time. I don't know if anyone's ever talked about any future plans for that area. It seems sad that it all failed. As you reach out to people about various amenities in the area, I don't know if that ever came up.

It has, um, Mr. Jepson and, uh. Councilman Jepson, um, this was the. Outside outdoor concert venue if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct?

Correct.

Yeah, so we're actually, um, we're working on something with with that property owner right now to hopefully re, engage that parcel. Um. I'm, um. not sure what i'm allowed to say on that right now but it is something that we're we're working on engaging into this master plan that we have for this group of buildings and i think our goal is to make that something special again and kind of create that connectivity with that bridge as well i'm glad to hear it's on your horizon yeah that's it is yes It's a very, very, I've done some research and it seemed like that was a very unique, exciting venue back in the day. And it wasn't too long ago.

It was quite popular, but gosh, it's been years now.

Yeah, well, one has to only look at Simsbury and see what a good idea that was.

Yeah. But... not to divert from what we're actually talking about, but I just thought I'd bring it up.

No, of course. I'm glad you did.

I think that's some of those lots as well. We always used to park to go to those concerts and go across. Oh, is that right? And go across the bridge.

Okay. The parking, all these buildings are over-parked for some of the transitioning uses from the office space.

You've seen all the other comments on the town staff memo.

We have, I believe we've addressed all of them besides that storage 1 that I did mention in the presentation. So, we will have larger closet spaces to address the storage comment. And we are aware that the wetlands application will proceed the site plan application. I believe that was a comment on there as well. Yeah.

Can you also have any questions and there was 1 about the exterior changes to the building. Including lighting, landscaping sidewalks.

Okay, number 2, so. That would all be addressed in our site plan approval from. My end, we would propose an enhanced landscape plan, which we have our landscape architect working on the lighting's already lighting in the lot. So, I'm not sure what we're going to need to provide for a photo metrics plan, but we will work with town planning staff on that. Um. the exterior of the buildings we aim to keep and preserve um and on these buildings that the the exterior is actually very unique and i think it's something we're very excited to to keep so we don't do major exterior changes just made just any rehab that's required to make sure that they're in safe condition um and obviously aesthetically pleasing

Anyone else? Mr. Town Planner. Oh, we have a public hearing. Oh. Oh, yeah. There is that, too. Thank you. Okay. I'll open the public hearing. Does anyone in the audience like to speak for, against, or neither for or against and has a question?

There's no one online.

No one online? Thanks, Mitch.

The building is pretty amazing, especially the square footage of those units.

And with the five buildings, I do have a question for the developers is, is one building or others more than one, being considered for home ownership opportunities for future Windsor residents to actually have a generational wealth equity stake in these places? That's my primary question, but also to alert River that Summer Winds was that amazing venue. And as I recall, it was destroyed by high winds that tore down the tent. Just across North Griffin Road from all of these buildings is the Farmington River Park that borders the Farmington River. And that bridge does get people across the pond to then... go the next step to get to the Farmington River. And I don't know that the developers, you know, Ben Brady Sullivan is aware of that, which would also enhance if you're going to sell these things for homeownership opportunities, you know, how much you could sell them for. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Does anybody else? Still no one online, Mitch?

No one online.

Okay. So close the public hearing, and now you have your turn.

Sure. So, Ben, if you don't mind kind of addressing the home ownership questions, and we have had some conversations with the open space and recreational areas up there. I mean, it's a pretty significant open space with the state property, the closure of the landfill, and the bird habitat sites. that tie up into Great Pond and eventually connect up to Northwest Park. Pretty significant amount of open space there. And we've had communications with Brady about those amenities and access to them from his sites. And Ben, if you don't mind addressing the questions on the ownership model.

Yeah, of course. It the ownership condoing of these buildings is what that would come down to and that's just unfortunately, it's not really in our model. It's not how. It's not part of our development thesis and. So, for. Any of these buildings, they are. For rent departments, and that would be our, our, our play on each of them. I will say that we are. Long term holders of our apartments were committed community partners in communities that we invest in and with Windsor being so close to our home market. I mean, our, our entire team ownership group is very excited about what we're delivering here. So those would be for rent apartments. We do own, develop, and operate them ourselves. So the Brady Sullivan name isn't going to go out the window. We'll be operating them throughout their lifetime. So we will remain a dedicated partner to the Windsor community for the next 50 to 60 years or however long. they're around for. So that's our thesis on these buildings and in our play.

So I have some additional staff comments. to go through quickly, and I can't help myself, but Summer Wind was destroyed by high winds. Was that during the summer? That would have been foreshadowing.

There was also a litigation.

That was later after it was destroyed.

It had a special kind of a roof situation. It was supposed to simulate tobacco that netting. It was destroyed.

It's very similar to Mortenson Plaza in Hartford was the tent, except bigger.

Yeah, yeah.

I've seen the structures that still are currently out there, but I've never seen like a. So staff have reviewed the application with the applicant and provided several comments. Many of the planning department's comments were focused on communicating kind of the broader vision for the conversion of these buildings at Waterside Crossing. And so we asked the applicant to demonstrate how the individual properties will function as part of a larger campus, including the shared amenities, pedestrian connections, and the access to the surrounding open space network. The renderings that were shown tonight also show some minor site improvements. One in particular, the dog park area. Staff will continue working with the applicant to kind of refine these concepts further for that particular rendering, maybe including features such as seating, some landscaping, and appropriate play features for dogs. Those are details that can be reviewed and finalized at a staff level. Obviously, any changes have to go before the Wetland Commission before staff can approve a site plan. This property is generally in better condition than some of the other buildings proposed for adaptive reuse and may not require the same extent of site upgrades. With the previously approved application, however, staff have focused on opportunities to improve pedestrian connectivity, landscaping, accessibility, and the overall appearance and function of the campus. We have been working and will continue work with the developer to identify those appropriate improvements. Staff also asks about the onsite storage for residents because I know that's something that the commission has brought up in the past with previous applications. As you saw in the presentation, a number of properties in this area have come before you for adaptive reuse. As mentioned, one and three, Waterside, and four and eight, Griffin Road. So because there's kind of a lot of moving pieces there, staff had asked the applicant to provide the commission with kind of a clear understanding of that long-term vision for Waterside Crossing and that surrounding corporate campus. Part of that broader context also includes the former Harford building, which was shown in the rendering. That building was recently acquired by Mr. Greenberg, who has been actively marketing the property to secure new tenants and increase its occupancy. And this is significant because the Hartford property or Infinity Center together form, with Waterside Crossing, a mixed-use area, which is surrounded by some of Windsor's largest and most scenic open space areas. And it's our understanding that the respective property owners have been communicating and realize the mutual benefits of creating this mixed use office and residential campus. This application would address the vacancy of the building presently before the commission and contribute to the continued reinvestment and revitalization of the surrounding properties. And so while the commission was reviewing the specific application, we wanted to make sure that you kind of have an understanding of the broader vision and some of the conversations that we've had around this application. in this kind of whole area. Okay.

What are you doing now, rebuttal? Do you have any rebuttal or anything else you'd like to say?

Not at this time on my end. I don't believe so, Mr. Chairman.

I have a couple of questions. Okay, sure. Do you envision any conflict or any tension between this building that you're talking about and the neighboring one that will be an office use?

Um, I do not, we, we operate many mixed use buildings, some even large mill buildings where there might be a group of apartments on 1 side of a floor and a commercial tenant on the other. And we have shared amenities in those buildings into inside and outside. I think it's it's. rare that we've had conflict between residential tenants and commercial tenants um as they kind of ebb and flow throughout the day and have different schedules um so we have experience with that i think one thing that also works on our end is that we self-manage our properties um and we are also the owner so if something does come up we will make sure it's taken care of immediately or addressed um addressed in a proper manner

Another thing is that I know the developers at great pond wanted to get bus public bus service out there. And the answer that they got was there were not enough people there. But and so I don't know if they achieved that or not. But I'm thinking when you're adding more people to this site, and maybe if you combined with them, you could get public bus service out there, which would be a nice benefit for your residents.

That certainly would be a nice benefit and amenity really to for our residents. I think it's something we can definitely connect with town planning staff and as well as maybe get in touch with the ownership group on that property to see if it's something we can spearhead together.

Nothing else else.

No. Well, if we're done, is there a motion?

To close the public hearing?

Oh, I had to close it before for Todd, didn't I?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'll move approval. Of the special use at 7 Waterside Crossing. Yes. Pending resolution of the outstanding issues with town staff.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Any nays? Motion passes 5-0. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Commission. Take care.

Okay. Next public hearing is special use re-approval for 231 Dudley Town Road.

Good evening. James Burns. owner of Countryside Landscaping, looking for the reapproval of the contractor, landscaped contractor yard at 231, 235 Deli Town.

Okay. I assume you're presenting for both things, even though we have two special use reapproval, two public hearings technically.

Correct, it's...

It goes all together.

Yeah, there's a property line running down through the middle, so it's all together.

Okay. Anything we should note?

No, it's all the same. Somebody came up with, they saw the property line dividing the property I'm using. Both properties are owned by the same person, but my original special use was only for technically 231 Dudleytown. So we had to get a wetlands involved with the 235 portion. Okay. So TJ Bressy did a wetlands review. But I'm not changing anything that I'm doing.

So you don't have to go to Welland's commission for this or you already have? We already did all that, yeah. It's already done? Yeah. Okay, fair.

So Mr. Barnes, can you just kind of give the commission, I know there's been a history of approvals, one with the garage or open storage of the commercial vehicles tied to Windsor Sanitation, but there's also been a history of approvals with the landscape contractor's yard. So can you just kind of talk through sort of your operations with that? You know, with the contractor's yard, how frequently is it bringing in trucks or Windsor Sanitation?

Yeah, so Windsor Sanitation has moved their operation. So I moved in once they left. So they're not operating out of there. Okay. It's just the business now, so it's generally everybody comes in the morning, gets their stuff together, leaves for the day, comes back at the end of the day. Inside the building is storage of equipment. Outside in the yard is some piles of topsoil and debris. There's no real work done on site.

It's basically just a storage facility for the... And so do contractors come there to pick up materials and then deliver to the site, or how does that kind of work?

No, there's some deliveries, I guess, once in a while, but it's generally just we get our equipment and we go to the job. Yeah, there's no real quote-unquote work being done on site.

How many staff do you have?

There's like 10 or 12 all together. There is still to this day, there's no running water or heat in the building or anything like that. So there's no office, there's no bathroom, nothing like that. It's basically just a storage facility for us.

Does it operate year round?

Yes.

Do you lease any of the property to another contractor?

No.

So it's just you? No.

I noticed that there's a stack of firewood for sale in front of the gate. Yes. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Yes, a landscaper friend of mine, he's trying to get some extra business for the wintertime. So I think he has a couple locations that he asked people to help out with. So there's quite a bit of traffic that goes by that area. And it's just a... pull up, I think he has a box on the side and you just put your money in.

Yeah. Sort of the honest. Yeah.

Yeah. There's no, it's not, there's nobody working.

He's got a couple others and I think one by the barrel.

Yeah. He's got one by Dewey's barrels. Yeah. Yeah. And one somewhere else I think too.

A few years ago we had a, wasn't a change in zoning about landscapers cause there was some issues with some other people. Does that apply to this case or? Mentioned there was someone who got on Tunxis, I think.

I believe those changes were in the B2 zone and the definition of the landscaper contractor's yard. I don't think that that applies to this application.

He had more, I don't want to use the word amenities, but it wasn't just a parking area.

No, I know that. I just wondered if any of that applied here. That's all.

I noticed that there's a memo from the wetlands agent. It seems like I wear the wetlands hat tonight. But the wetlands commission delegated approval authority to her. Do you know what that determination was by her, the wetlands agent?

I've heard it said.

Oh, here it is.

Yeah, it was approved by the wetlands. I'm sorry. Didn't read far enough.

All right. I can open the public hearing. Okay. Public hearing is open. Would anyone like to speak for, against, or neither for nor against has a question to this application? Mitch, anyone in line? No, sir. Okay, does no one know? Close the public hearing.

So you would need two separate motions, correct?

Yeah, they're two different public hearings.

Yes, ma'am. I move approval of special... I don't know if Todd wanted to say anything. Oh, I'm sorry. We're a little rusty.

He gets his speaks.

So staff had reviewed the application back last spring with their engineer, T.J. Barresi. It was during that review that we discovered that the operation had spilled onto 235 Dudleytown. Both of the uses have a history of approvals. I mentioned Windsor Sanitation had approvals that dated back to 2009 and I think even further. The landscaping was originally approved back in 2014 with the latest approval for five years in 2020. In reviewing the aerial imagery, and this is kind of a new tool that we have in our toolkit, It seems that the use had expanded to some extent dating back to 2015, that it spilled over onto 235 with kind of some stockpile materials, logs, mulch beds. So I don't think that this has been a substantial change in the use of these two properties yet. However, I do think there may be some site cleanup that should occur to kind of bring in any conformance with the approved plans, things like recreational vehicle storage, maybe equipment vehicle storage, and there's some areas that look like on the aerial imagery, and it may have been firewood. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, that probably was the firewood because it looked like palletized material almost. So we have requested a 3.9 site plan revision. That's been submitted. My recommendation is that if you want to place a time limit on it, we can work with the applicant to bring the site into conformance with the approved plan and get the updated plan to accurately show the storage areas.

But there's been a kind of ongoing... How much time are you thinking about?

Probably have to get it done before winter.

That's always at your discretion.

I assume that the original application had a time limit on it of one year.

Yeah, the last one had the landscape contractor's yard having a five-year approval on it last. And like I said, it looked like that it's been substantially the same since 2015. It doesn't look like it's significantly expanded. It's just because we had new tools to be able to go back in history and look at it. So it's just working with the applicant to kind of clean it up a little bit and get it to the conformed plan.

So are you looking, sorry. Are you looking for a timeline for the applicant to clean it up or the timeline for us to do the permit? Because you're saying clean up. Exactly what I was going to ask.

That's a great question. Thank you for clarifying. Approval timeline. Approval is subject to one year, two year, five year, ten year, whatever you think is appropriate. We can work with the applicant in the meantime between those approvals to kind of clean it up and and get it, and we'll do that as part of the 3.9, so I anticipate that might happen rather quickly.

Or I would think so before wintertime, before everything freezes, and then he's into the snow mode. Right. So, yeah, I'd say three months.

And I don't think it's a significant amount of work that needs to occur, it's just...

He's got the equipment on site to do it anyway. So you don't need a timeline on 3.9, you just need one for the special use?

If you feel that's appropriate.

Okay, got it. What do you think?

I think fine. I think five years.

Five? Yeah.

Give him five years the last time and then, you know, clean up. The 3.9 will handle the cleanup.

Yeah, right. I don't think he's going anywhere. You want a little more?

I agree. So you think longer?

Yeah, maybe not 10.

Yeah, that's fine with me. No.

You don't like 10?

I don't like 10. Five.

All right. I would give him 10 years.

All right, well, let's vote.

How many years do you? I mean, it's 10 years.

I don't plan on going anywhere. I haven't really changed too much. I think the problem was there was a discrepancy. We didn't know there was a property line where the property line was originally, so I think that was the big problem.

And given the cleanup, what do you think, three months you can get it done?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure what the cleanup entails.

It's some recreational vehicles stored and just kind of the cleanup of the storage areas, but I don't think it's a significant amount of work.

Yeah, so by wintertime or whatever, like you said, that's fine.

So how do you want to do your vote, 10-5, or do you want to ask? I wonder if you've got to make a motion.

Yeah. I move approval of the special use at 231. Dudley Town Road with the following conditions, that any items that the planner identifies be cleaned up by the end of November and that the special use reapproval be for a period of five years. Second. Second.

Okay, all in favor? Do you guys want to amend the motion?

I'd like to amend it to 10, but I see he's been here for a while. I don't think he's going anywhere.

All right, is there a second to the amendment?

I second that amendment. Second it.

Okay. Discussion? Any discussion on the amendment? You're the maker of the amendment. I think he's been here for a while. It's nice to have a local person, and he's been doing a good job. I don't see why. He's already had five years before and it seemed like we had no problems except a misunderstanding of the zone. And it's not like he has hazardous, he's handling hazardous materials or other type of stuff where it's gonna be a detriment. I just don't.

My issue is the proximity to the wetland.

Okay.

And my issue is just that I think there should be an eye on it every five years. I think 10 years, too much could happen in 10 years. And it may very well not, and it will be a rote question when he comes back in five years.

And we're talking about 231 Dudleytown Road, because you're going to need another motion. Another motion for the second, that's true.

Larry, you have anything?

No, you know, I pass that property every day, and no problems. They keep it clean, you know. and he's not going anywhere, so I think he should get his 10 years.

And Ms. Levine, I just want to add that it didn't appear any of the storage areas were affecting any of the wetlands.

Yeah, because actually there's a second site, the second plan shows all the storages and stuff on the second page of that plan.

So you need to vote on the amendment.

You have to vote on the amendment, yes. Any more discussion on the amendment? All right, all in favor of the amendment, say aye. Aye. Aye.

Opposed?

Opposed? The amendment passes 3-2.

So the motion is then for approval for 10 years?

It is. Yes.

Okay.

So on the main motion, all those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. And now we have the second part of your public hearing. I don't have to go through all that again or?

No, the public hearings can be combined. It's just we need separate motions for the individual properties.

All right. I'll move approval of 235, the special use application for 235 Dudley Town Road with the same conditions as for 231. Second. For a period of 10 years. 10 years.

Second. Seconded by Mr. Jagan. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion passes 5-0. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, next one we have a text amendment. Sections 331K and 331L. Requirements Conservation Traffic Mitigation District from the Town of Windsor.

I really just want to say. I'm still trying to figure this out. Good evening, Commission, Todd Seeley, Town Planner. Tonight I have an amendment before you for the text amendment for the general requirements, the Conservation and Traffic Mitigation District from the Town of Windsor. Mitch, can you pull up that text amendment and I'll kind of quickly go through that and provide some notes and comments and can address some of the CROG letter as well. So what we're doing is proposing an amendment to our general requirements. As you remember, back in July, we had updated our regulations to comply with Public Act 25-1 on the requirements for middle housing. And again, middle housing being defined as two to nine units permitted by a site plan only. Part of those requirements were that residential developments containing 16 units or fewer would not be required to provide off-street parking unless a specific adverse impact on public health was demonstrated. That act gave towns permission to implement a conservation and traffic mitigation district, which would require off-street parking for developments of 16 units or fewer. So right now we've currently proposed the Windsor Center boundary as depicted in our zoning regulations as kind of a conservation and traffic mitigation district. So we are permitted by this act to dedicate two areas as traffic mitigation zones provided that the total percentage does not exceed 4% of the municipality's total land area. And with what we're proposing, it's been determined that Windsor Center comprises about 0.4% of the land area. So with the text in the amendment itself, this is under our general requirements, added in a section to reference 3.3.1L, and this is Conservation and Traffic Mitigation District. Windsor Center, as shown on Appendix A22, is designated as a Conservation and Traffic Mitigation District. Within this district, all residential and mixed-use developments shall provide the minimum number of off-street motor vehicle parking spaces as required by our parking standards in Section 3.3.5. The general parking requirements of 3.3.1, including all applicable parking reductions, shall apply within the Conservation and Traffic Mitigation District. An applicant may submit a parking needs assessment to the Commission. The Commission may condition its approval based on either parking standards found in our regulations or the number of spaces recommended in the parking needs assessment which is that whichever is fewer and then there's a point zero zero we have to strike the zero zero out as an amendment and so the parking assessment description so a lot of this language was pulled out of the public act itself tried not to mess with that too much because the the public act has very specific definitions on things uh... and uh... parking needs assessment description uh... is that a parking needs assessment pursuant to subsection b of this section shall be paid for by the proposed developer and shall include analysis of one, available existing public and private parking that may be used by residents of the proposed development, and two, public transportation options that may be used by residents of the proposed development that mitigate the need for off-street parking, projected future needs for off-street parking for such proposed development, and any relevant local traffic, parking, or safety study. So that kind of defines what the needs or the onus is for the developer for providing the parking needs assessment. I had considered including that in the regulation. Mitch had actually made that recommendation, and I was kind of on the fence about it because some of the language in the state can be a little... Complex, I guess, best word I'd say. So the reason we felt that Windsor Center was appropriate for traffic mitigation is because I believe our regulations currently give a substantial amount of reductions to parking needs for properties within Windsor Center. So the commission can approve up to 30% in parking reductions, and that has been done for a number of developments, currently developments you see going up now, There are also provisions in our regulations for existing buildings with a change of use to not have to provide any additional requirements. So because we had felt that we had such flexibility already within our zoning regulations and the fact that we have a winter parking ban, we felt that the Count Town Center was appropriate for requiring those minimum number of parking spaces for the 16 units. It still gives the developer the opportunity to submit the parking needs assessment, and the commission kind of has to select the lesser of the two, unless it can prove that there's some kind of public safety or issue with the proposal itself. So KROG does have a letter, and we should read that in the record, and I can provide some comments to that as well, but I'll take any questions if you have any.

So I could summarize. This is required from the new state law that passed months ago, but it doesn't seem more restrictive than what we already have. We still have flexibility.

We still have flexibility, yeah.

But it makes us in compliance with the law that passed that we had to do some stuff.

Yes, we were previously in compliance with the law because our regulations did include that for the 16 units or fewer, but by designating this as the traffic mitigation zone, we're given that path kind of by the state to designate certain areas. And so this kind of has an area where we can require it.

So it kind of checks off a box with the state. What was the last? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we don't have to adopt a traffic medic. There's nothing that's requiring us to adopt it. I'm just saying that we're choosing this option because we have flexibility within our regulations. Okay. I'm proposing this option because we have flexibility within our regulations and because of the winter parking ban. So we're not required to have this language in there. I'm just proposing it. Okay, got it.

I think you've done a nice job translating a statute that is impenetrable into something that's almost understandable.

Thank you. That's high praise. All right, any other questions?

Oh, we do have a CROG letter. You want to read the letter? Yeah.

THIS IS REPORT ON ZONING REFERRAL Z2026-110 PROPOSED TRAFFIC CONGESTION MITIGATION ZONE. COMMISSIONERS, RECEIVED AS ACKNOWLEDGED OF THE ABOVE REFERENCE REFERRAL NOTICE OF THIS PROPOSAL WAS TRANSMITTED TO THE REGIONAL PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT DIVISION OF THE CAPITOL REGION COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 8-3B OF THE CONNECTICUT GENERAL STATUTES AS AMENDED. The staff of the Regional Planning Commission of the Capital Region Council of Governments has reviewed this zoning referral and finds no apparent conflict with regional plans or policies or the concerns of neighboring towns. It is staff's understanding that conservation and traffic mitigation zones, TCMZ, are provided to prevent housing being built without parking where parking is absolutely needed for every trip. For example, a high-speed arterial classified as commercial would require all residents and all guests of those residents to drive to the destination due to the condition of the main route. However, a town center would most likely have more appropriate conditions for walking and or cycling or taking transit and therefore may require less parking than usual. With the understanding that CROG staff only hold the perspective as land use and traffic planners, It is staff's opinion that by focusing on the TCMZ zone in areas not as walkable as the town center, the center may also benefit from streetscape development that more closely resembles the traditional New England walkable hub for Community Connection and Economic Development. A public hearing was scheduled for September 9th, 2026, and this letter was distributed to the town planners in Windsor Locks, East Granby, East Windsor, Bloomfield, Hartford, and South Windsor, and it's signed Jacob Knowlton, Community Planning Development Planner.

Thank you. So I would like to respond to that because I understand that their comment is essentially town centers are more walkable areas and would have parking availability to absorb some of the smaller developments. Um, you know, we remember that the public act, um, this prohibited those middle housing, the two to nine units by right in commercial mixed use zones. Um, so the only other large commercial areas in town are the day Hill road, uh, Wilson center, uh, with a few outlier parcels here and there, and some overlay zones as well. Um, You know, Krog is kind of what the, I forget what the language they use, but high-speed arterial classified as commercial. So what Krog is really kind of referring to is a day hill road. However, I don't think that we'll see middle housing development on day hill road because the land values are so high that a 16-unit development on two acres probably wouldn't pencil out. For comparison, Bowfield Green's on about 2.3 acres, and they did 77 units, I believe. So the reason I think that this is appropriate in Windsor Center is because we have that winter parking ban. We cannot account for on-street parking in the wintertime, and we already have those reductions kind of built into our zoning regulations that would allow for the change of use and 30% reduction. So it's my... personal opinion that I think it's appropriate and I'd be happy to answer any questions or take any comments you might have. Any questions?

All right. I'll open the public hearing. Does anyone have to speak for or against or neither for or against as a question on this topic?

No one online.

No one online. No one here. I'll close the public hearing, and Todd, you've already talked about it. I've said my piece. You've said your piece. Does anyone have any last questions? Okay, shall we have a motion?

I move approval of the text amendment to section 3.3.1k and 3.3.1l as described by the town planner. Seconded.

Seconded. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Against? No. Motion passes 5-0. Okay. Next up, special use for 570 Hayden Station Road, Section 8.6V, Brewery with Taproom.

Good evening, Commission. My name is Gordon Wompley. I am the founder, brewer, you know, formulator, cleaning guy, CEO at Float House. We are the floaty, non-alcoholic craft brewery. My business partner, Joe Duplinsky, couldn't be here tonight, so I am flying solo. Who we are. Float House is a licensed craft beverage manufacturer. And I am a professional brewer. I've worked at Magic Hat, El Segundo out in California, a brewery called Munkish, and then Ram Production here in Connecticut at Stony Creek, and also at the 12% Beer Project in North Haven. I also taught brewing science at Sacred Heart. We manufacture all of our product and we co-pack for other brands out of what we like to call the float factory on Hayden Station Road. It's about a 6,000 square foot space on this four-ish acre industrial parcel. What we're asking for, a special use permit under section 8.6b, brewery with a tap room. We already have the right to sell our product to go and to run free samplings in this zone. So this permit is only about letting people sit or stand and enjoy a non-alcoholic and non-THC product on site in a small, small tap room. So in our space, we've got about 311 square feet in the existing front entry room. That space is already built out with walls, floor, lighting, HVAC. It's all done. And initially, we're only adding decor and a refrigerator. So no construction initially. Draft surface would come from kegerators and we would work with health department. We have most of our materials ready to submit if the commission decides to approve us. So what is actually in this glass? Everything we pour in the tap room is non-alcoholic. It is under the 0.5% ABV. I love beer. I just wish it felt the same way about me. You know, after a career brewing and drinking beer, it just stopped working. Something to do with kids and waking up hungover just was not working anymore. So created this company to solve my own problem and created a whole host of other problems for myself with that. But we started with low-dose THC products. Connecticut has a very strict regulatory system in place that we operate underneath here. You know, it's definitely not the easiest thing to do, but we have made it happen. You know, we do have our line of THC products that we sell in Connecticut and currently do direct to consumer where that is allowed, not Connecticut, and we're also distributed in Rhode Island. At this site though, starting October 1st, we will have the ability under the recently passed House Bill 5350 that got turned into the Public Act, the ability to sell 12 cans to go per consumer per day of up to five milligrams of THC in these products.

What is THD?

It is tetrahydrocannabinoid. So it is the active component in cannabis or hemp.

So this is regulated under marijuana laws also?

It is in that giant bill, but it is separate. Everything we make is from hemp-derived THC. So it is... you know, it's the same plant, but there is a definition that says anything that has less than 0.3% THC on a dry weight basis is considered hemp. All of our products fall well under that dry weight threshold, and all of our sourcing, we have seed to sale tracking on everything with COAs and testing per Connecticut standards. These are low-dose products. Many states have different situations, but, you know, here in Connecticut, the high-dose products live in the dispensaries. Our products and loads of others are available all over Connecticut in package stores, you know, anywhere from Stu Leonard's to, you know, we're all over the place.

Could you clarify? for some of the commissioners to the difference. So what is in a typical dispensary, the THC volumes versus your THC volumes. That might help explain a little bit. And then also, like you said, those THC products are sold over the counter at various package stores and whatever. No regulations in terms of who can buy it or whatever. Of course, 21 plus. But not as for dispensary. That might help explain a little bit more to some of the other commissioners. Great point.

So one way that I think is a really useful way to think about it, one of the best selling things in a dispensary would be a pre-roiled joint. Those have anywhere from 150 to 300 milligrams of THC in them. And if one were to smoke that, that is directly injected you know, through your lungs and into your bloodstream. Our products at three milligrams, you would need to drink 30 of them to get to that same 150 milligrams. The beverages, just by nature of what we have to do to make the THC oil water soluble, they are quicker in their effects. You may feel them 15 to 30 minutes later, and they also dissipate quicker. But you're not getting high per se as a Yeah, nowhere nowhere near as much now that's what the caveat everybody has their own endocannabinoid system and experiences these things differently, you know about a 20% of the population Doesn't feel it at all anything edible Do you grow the plants we do not? and in fact, it's We pushed hard, and now there is a structure to bring hemp farming and this extraction to Connecticut. There's now a legal framework and pathway to do so. But over the last five years or so, most of the hemp farms have gone under. So now they might come back a little bit, or farmers might divert. To that, I'm not a farmer. I am good at shepherding yeast, but that's about the only thing. So in our space, well, 6,000 square feet with no farmland.

Your THC comes in in a liquid form. It is not in any way, shape, or form in a leaf. It's a liquid. Correct. Correct, dispensed in liquid. At the .07.

It is under the 0.3% THC by dry weight. And that is kept per CT regulations in a locked refrigerator, and then we lock it inside of something else, and there's a lot of locks. I'm going to pharmaceuticals.

THC is a controlled drug, right?

Yes.

And are you managed or you get frequent visits from the DEA?

No. So it's because it's derived from hemp, which is, per the 2018 Farm Bill, federally legal.

Do you have to make any reports to the federal government regarding your storage?

No. So if it was THC that was derived from cannabis, we would be, you know, considered, you know, peddlers, schedule one drug. But this, because it is derived from hemp, this is why you see it in all the liquor stores.

Different plants. Tell me a little bit about your storage system, safety, security.

Yes. So the front office to the rear, it's all key card. We have cameras and all of the staff, we have robust training on, I mean, there's four of us total. But the... factory space is secured per Connecticut regulations and been approved by DCP multiple times they've been in a lot so you know we followed all of their rules and regs for storage you know we have all of their disposal plans and recall plans etc for you know in the event of something happening But the factory space itself is secure. And the active ingredient, the THC, is diluted in an emulsion, which makes it so we can add it to our drinks before we package and pasteurize them. you know, not accessible to the public and per our security system will not be, you know, nobody will be able to go in there.

What about background checks for your employees?

Yes, we do background checks. When we hire, you know, we have sometimes brought in temps for additional hands-on packaging that also are vetted for background checks, and they would have no access to the cannabinoids. They, you know, go into a large tank. That tank, you know, it gets diluted out, and, you know, short of a pallet of finished goods disappearing. There's no real way to abscond with it.

So if I understand, your current operation, you operate as a right. We have no say over what you're already doing.

Yeah, we're not selling anything yet, because we are not allowed to.

All you're looking for is the ability to have a tap room. Correct. And your current operation is entirely legal and beyond our purview. That's my understanding. The only question I had was, has nothing to do with all the canvas thing. I seem to remember that a lot of the older buildings at Hayden Station were all on well water and septic, and I assume you're putting in bathrooms.

There are two bathrooms on site, and we don't need to add an additional one. You don't have to add anything, and the septic system and all that is going to be able to support this? Yes. That was a surprise to us when we leased the building, that it was on septic. You know, we came down here looking for plans and it was advertised as being on city sewer and we're like, oh, well, Amazon's right there. It was not. We have a wastewater treatment and metering system that we devise and use that. We test pH and slowly meter out wastewater to not overload any leach field.

Yeah. Something the town probably looked into anyway from the health side, I imagine.

So you're regulated by the Department of Consumer Protection, but not the Ligar Control Authority?

Correct. This product is really for people who like the taste of beer but don't like the buzz.

Yeah. Here in Connecticut, we are building a rich reputation for non-alcoholic innovation with Athletic really leading the charge when they launched in 2017. I was like, who would buy it? It doesn't have the fun part. Fast forward a couple of years and I am subscribed and have it come into my door. Things change. It's been a very tough time for breweries everywhere as the world has changed post-COVID. What I originally fell in love with the craft beer community when I started working at Magic Hat, you know, is something that I want to keep carrying the torch of through these communal third spaces and having a, you know, a sober third space where we can talk. I want to talk. I want to talk to consumers about the product that I am. you know, so passionate about. And, you know, I miss having those third spaces.

Plus also, do you have the stats on, I know kids nowadays, the alcohol, nobody, but especially hard liquor and beer, nobody is really drinking alcoholic beers, correct?

It's declining for everybody except for NEBCO. They're growing pretty well. Yeah, consumer trends, I think it's as, you know, awareness of the negative effects of alcohol and the, you know, also, I don't know, the world is an interesting place right now. Younger folks, older folks, I mean, our target consumer is, you know, an older millennial with kids who used to do fun stuff and, you know, remembers doing those things.

Used to do fun stuff.

I remember. I used to do fun stuff. And now, you know, it's just a little bit of respite to unwind with at the end of the day.

Is it harder to make a non-alcoholic beer than it is a regular beer?

Yeah.

My brother-in-law is a brewer also, and that's why I'm interested.

I would talk your ear off about it.

Not to me, because I don't like beer.

It presents a whole set of different challenges. Having to figure out how to make it less fermentable, what yeast strains you can use, and still getting that flavor and experience of the ritual of drinking a beer after a day. You know, it took me a couple years to figure out how to do this correctly.

What are your hours of operation?

So we, I believe the retail is allowed to do 8 to 8. We're thinking we, I have no idea how many people are going to show up for this. We get calls on the regular basis about people that want to visit, but we were going to start with like 11 to 6 and see what happens.

How many days a week?

Initially, probably like Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I have not yet hired taproom staff.

I think Yoshi's right there. Yes. Can someone grab a beverage and go over there or bring food into your taproom?

Their food is great. You know, I... believe they would be able to bring food in. I have a bunch of conversations with the health department that I need to go through. Before I could answer that fully, I could follow up.

How many people can you accommodate in your place?

I would defer to the fire marshal for the final ruling on that, but I think it would be tight with 20 people in there. You know, we are thinking phase one, we're just gonna open up to go. This is a mostly bootstrapped operation and we're, you know, this is a much, well, hopefully a good source of revenue so we can keep on investing and building it out more and purchase some kegerators, which are not cheap. And, you know, So not totally sure on the occupancy. I think if things are going well, we would love to come back and talk about food trucks and potentially some outdoor seating down the line. But in that area, you've got Yossi and Mondazi and not much else going on. So it's a very convenient spot. It's accessible. I don't know. I think we could build it into a nice destination.

One other question. So you only brew for yourself? Or I thought you might have mentioned you brew for outside breweries?

So we manufacture for other hemp-infused beverage companies and non-alcoholic beverages. So... the, you know, would they.

But that's been shipped, but that you're shipping out.

That, yeah, would not come into the tap room. It would only be our products. Okay, cool. Because we'd have to pay more for theirs.

Are all of your products THC infused?

The ones currently in market, yes, but we are doing a non-cannabinoid line with functional ingredients in it, so it's kind of like a non-alcohol plus, but I need something that isn't as much of a headache as the THC.

So you have a beer that gives you a high but doesn't make you drunk? Correct.

Correct.

It's really big. I don't drink it, but it's the new wave. Non-alcoholic is huge. The THC is just getting in. Whether or not it's a fad or not is to be determined because it's still quite new.

It's very early.

It's very early, but it's the big thing now.

Per NIQ, out of 10 adult non-alcoholic beverages purchased are non-alcoholic beer. In Per Athletic's own study that they just released, about 90% of their consumers are still drinking alcohol. So it is, you know, there's a spectrum of sobriety, and this is a toolkit. So you can feel at home the same reason a liquid death can of water feels right at a concert, you know, having one of our brews. in those places when you're at home, it just feels right.

So we don't have to go to the dispensary anymore, we could come to your spot?

You can buy our products at dispensaries across the state. And those are the only products that are allowed to live in full color on the floor for consumers to grab.

It's a whole new world.

Yeah.

All right. Any other questions? We can open the public hearing. All right. I'll open the public hearing. Is there anyone here who would like to speak for this proposal, against, or neither for nor against and has a question? Mitch? No, no one online. No one online either. All right. Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing. Todd, you have comments?

Yes. Sure. So you asked the question kind of earlier, do we have any kind of purview over this? Because it is something that's highly regulated by the state. So we do have kind of purview over breweries and manufacturing of, I say THC. I think our regulations call the fabricating, compounding, assembling, storage treatment, including cannabis. Now, whether that cannabis is the same as... Hemp-derived THC, I don't think our regulations get into that specificity, but the manufacturing of THC beverages is allowed by right in the industrial zone. This by right approval for breweries includes to-go sales and tastings. The to-go sales and tastings are regulated at the state level. State law currently allows THC beverage manufacturers to sell a limited quantity product directly to the consumer for off-premise consumption and given the kind of broad availability of these products and package stores you know we kind of took the approach that this was a permitted by right the reason we're here tonight is because they're looking to have a tap room to sell for on-premise consumption of non THC and non-alcoholic products Okay, I want to make sure I got that right. There were some proposed site changes that we discussed that would require a 3.9 approval, a plan that should cover outdoor seating, maybe some accessibility and a proposed location of a food truck. If there are future changes at the federal level regarding the classification or regulation of hemp-derived THC, we may need to revisit this. And as a manufacturer, they may have to kind of pivot and be limited in their ability to produce THC beverages. But tonight we're here to consider the special use for this tap room of about 20 people or so. You know, if they expand the tap room in the future, expand operations, you know, we could work with them on whether or not that needs to come back to the commission. But general staff recommendations, approval. I don't think we have any. comments other than they will need to work with the building department and the fire marshal's office on determining that occupancy and addressing things like accessibility okay and the health department depending upon the septic system uh they don't have any comments at this time but yeah they if there is a substantial impact of the septic system they will have to review that Okay.

I have two more questions for you. Will you have Narcon on site?

Narcon. We do not have plans for that.

Why would you need it?

Why would you need it?

It's not going to be laced. No, but we can say it won't be laced. What if there's a problem in the brewing process?

It's low dose THC, it's not even.

I think it would be a good practice for you to have at least Narcon on site. I would certainly look into it. Because DCP will probably ask you for that too.

That would be driven by the state regulations.

And I've been deep in those regs. I did not see any mention of it, but I've talked to our DCP friends at least weekly. I'm happy to ask about it. that's like a easy safety measure that we can have on site. I see no reason why not.

Any other questions? Shall we have a motion?

I move approval of a special use at 570 Hayden Station Road, yes, Hayden Station Road, brewery with a taproom, pending resolution of any outstanding issues with the town.

Is there a second?

Second.

Okay. The motion is second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? No.

Thank you very much.

Okay. Next I'll check that off. Special use of approval for 770-800 and 808 Bloomfield Avenue. Outdoor storage in the I-Zone.

Good evening. For the record, Wilson Holford Jr., registered professional engineer and land surveyor, offices at 200 Pigeon Hill Road. Here on behalf of TLD, and the property is... On the corner, as soon as Mitch gets it up there, The piece of property, as you're looking at it, north is to the top of the page. On the right-hand side is Addison Road. At the bottom of the sheet is Bloomfield Avenue. This is the TLD ACE facility. What they do is they provide, and probably the best indication is that originally it was called Accessory Controls. Accessory Control started in the large building in the middle, I think probably back sometime in the 60s. What they do is they manufacture equipment for accessories to an airplane that lands at an airport. They have generators for them and air conditioning so that when the engines of the planes are turned off, They provide ground support for the equipment. There are two applications. I'd like to hear them both at the same time, and then you can vote on them separately. The reason for the two applications is the same as the previous one. There are two different owners on the piece of property. The easterly portion is basically the portion of the property, which is the manufacturing component. The westerly portion of the property, which is over here, is the property that there is for sales. They're two different owners. We made two different applications for the special use. As I said, this building, which is located here, is the one which is the storage of the incoming components. This is the manufacturing facility. And there is over in these areas are basically storage for some larger components, but primarily for storage of the outside components, the finished equipment. They previously have secured a permit for the same outside storage five years ago. We're asking for an extension. I think the only significant change, a couple of them, I guess. Previously, we'd asked for a special use for the outside storage of lithium batteries. They were a component in some of the equipment. There's no longer a component in the equipment, and we're not asking for an extension of that. The second is that we had outlined storage areas for the outside storage. The pieces of equipment are about the size of the car about a car and they fit very nicely into parking stall And so some places they have been parking them in some of the parking stalls and We're asking to modify the previous permit to allow for storage in the in some of the parking stalls and we Put a note that says that they're basically are not going to be in areas where they're visible from either Bloomfield Avenue or from Addison Road And so this is you know a re-approval of an outside storage which has been there for a number of years at this point They're a little bit I don't know how to put it over occupied by their outside storage because one of their they have a you know, they build them on contract. They hold them until they're ready to be delivered. And recently, one of their clients has declared bankruptcy, you know, is what they're telling me, is that, and so that therefore, there are a number of the finished products which are there until it gets resolved to ship those. So that if you went there today, they're in worse shape than they have been in the past because of a bankruptcy, when that gets worked out, that will be shipped and it'll look a little bit better than it does now.

Skip, I seem to recall, perhaps two, three, four years ago, There was an issue about Bridge along Addison Road and my recollection tells me that they were supposed to put up some kind of a screening There trees are there were some planting that are supposed to go along the side of the road and they're still not there They've been reminded and I've gotten Comments from people we are contacting the landscaper to get it done.

They'd like to get it done this fall and I think they've contacted the town to determine it. And when I talked to the people that were there, they're more excited about doing it than they have in the past. I've got a commitment that, yes, they are going to do it.

Because it's, I mean, I drive by that at least several times a week. It's a mess.

The cars are parked everywhere.

Everything's a mess over there.

It's terrible.

It's like they really need to find a new parcel. I don't want them to leave Windsor. Believe me. I don't want them to leave.

Believe me, every idea that anybody on the commission comes up with, they've thought about. Yeah. One of the problems is, even the, you know, I said to them, you know, can you go rent someplace and put them over there? Well, the problem is is that they have to be tested within 45 days of shipping. And so, therefore, if you put them over on an- Bring them back. You got to bring them back, and it's a pain in the neck to go do that. They've looked at acquiring other pieces of property. They're here. They'd like to stay in Windsor. And they are looking at, you know, different alternatives. I mean, even, you know, do they raise the roof on one of their buildings? And that's one of the things they're considering. You know, they realize they're busting at the seams.

Yeah, and on top of it, they have a huge detention basin that's right along Bloomfield Avenue, which is eating up a lot of their acreage. But they have to have that detention basin there for the obvious.

Do you want to go argue with the Wetlands Commission?

No.

She did her time. I'm sorry, anymore?

I'm done. Okay.

Two quick questions. One is, Todd, in the application, it says, and I don't know if this is important or not, but it says lithium iron batteries and lithium ion batteries. Is this a typo? I don't know if it needs to be specific. Or needs to be fixed, FYI. We're not even asking for it. No, I know, but it's in your application. Okay.

At the time we made the application.

I'm just talking about spelling right now. Oh, okay. So does that need to be fixed for legal purposes?

I think something else needs to be fixed, actually.

Yeah, okay. I think the whole lithium. Yeah, well, that's where I was getting, but first I need to know. It just says lithium iron. I know it's a technicality, but does that technicality need to be fixed? And then my second question, going to what you said, is you stated, like you said, no lithium ion batteries, but it's in your application. So we need to either scratch it out of there and then that solves the problem, or you know what I mean? I'm trying to figure that out.

When we were talking to one of the people that was there at the time, they said, you know, make an application, and it may very well be, He didn't realize what the applications were that we had filed previously for those. And when I was talking to the people there, they said, no, they don't put them in anymore.

Well, that's what I'm saying. So do we need to clean this application up or no? Or are we good? Or if we do the motion with it out, is that good? I'm just trying to make sure everything is perfect is what I'm trying to say.

Yes.

If you want to just make a motion that says, I just want to make sure technically and legally that, you know, cause this, this is going to follow this.

So I didn't know if that needs, if you could like come in, cross it off and, and initial it. Yeah.

Yeah. Can we do that? I didn't know what we can do. That's just a question that I have.

Yeah, I mean, I certainly think you can cross it off and have the applicant, Mr. Alford, sign off on that. I also think you can have it in the motion to not include the lithium ion storage in our conversation.

Yeah, I think so, but again, I didn't know if this was like a legal. Sure, no, that's a great catch. And there is a difference between lithium ion and lithium iron, so you know what I mean? I just want to know so that we're good and this doesn't come back against him or us, so that's all.

Yeah, I think that was a great catch, and I think we can strike that from the application. I think we can also include a motion just to cover our basis for it. Our conversations with TLDAs has also indicated that they're not moving forward with the lithium ion storage, so I don't foresee any issues with that.

Excellent. No, I just needed to clarify. That was all I wanted to do, just make sure everybody was covered on that whole thing.

Could I ask a question about the parking at the church? Who initiates that? The church, since they're the renter, or is it the TLD that should initiate the application for that?

Both parties would have to sign off on the application. They would both be parties to the application.

So can we segregate that out of this application and have them come back for a separate application?

Yes, ma'am. And I need to look at our regulations for the shared parking. I know there is some provisions within a certain distance. I haven't been able to research in time if it would trigger that special use. My thinking is that it might. And so it probably just to be on the up and up, we should bring it back to the commission and review that as a special use. The outdoor storage areas shown here on the plan haven't changed from the previous approvals. It did show it over some of the parking areas there. I don't know how those parking counts, it's a very complex site between the buildings and the outdoor storage. So possibly bringing that in at a future date and doing that shared parking approval would probably be the best thing just for full disclosure.

So do you think it would be better to have them come back and just clean this all up and make it nice and legal for us?

Well, this is not a different approval from the past re-approvals. So in that regard, I think we could move forward with this tonight if you choose.

Except that, as Dominic pointed out, the issue with the batteries. Yeah.

I think that can be covered in a motion I Don't think we can cover it in a motion this document went out to the public Yeah, so I think we should actually table this until next month Even though one out to the public doesn't mean we approved it.

We approve what we approve I just there's a lot of things that are not quite right here Rather than not make it very clear. I don't know, that's just me.

You have concerns about parking and, okay.

And the screening. And the screening.

Was the screening in the initial site plan? That has been on site plans carrying forward and we've been in a lot of communications with the applicant on this. They've reached out to us numerous times to kind of address some of these on-site storage issues, and I think that they're working towards compliance of this because of this third-party vendor. They're kind of stuck with some additional storage on Addison Road. But as Mr. Alford said, I do have every indication that they're going to move forward. I don't know what was happening with those previous approvals, if that was... being communicated on their side or not with the screening and the plantings that were required.

Oh, I can hear Mrs. Mips in my right ear.

I have, too. And that's one of the things we pointed out. We did have meetings with them and Mr. Alford, and that's one of the things we pointed out, that this has been a request of the commission kind of for numerous years now at various approvals. Okay. And like I said, I think that they have been working with us to try and find solutions to this on-site storage. You mentioned the detention basin in the front. They're surrounded by wetlands on all sides, just about.

Yeah, it's a terrible location.

Yeah, so they've looked at some adjacent properties and kind of expanding and possibly, they've looked at a number of options, including adding an additional story to one of the buildings. They've been in constant communication with us. I have good faith that we're going to be moving in the right direction with this, but you're the ones making the vote tonight, so whatever you feel is appropriate, we'll work with. But I think we're moving in the right direction, I guess.

Should we open a public hearing? Yeah? All right. I'll open the public hearing. Anyone like to speak for, against, or neither for or against and has a question about this proposal? Please come forward.

There's no one online.

There's no one online, Mitch? No. Okay, I guess I'll close the public hearing then.

So, your turn again. I don't think I have any additional comments other than that in our staff comments we did note the shared parking. We also noted that the storage container for the lithium ion battery also needs to come off the site because storage containers are not really an acceptable form of storage for our commercial, industrial, and residential properties. We're seeing that on all fronts. So, you know, like I said, the applicant has been working with staff. Honestly, it's your level of comfort and any questions I can answer now on how you want to move forward with the application.

Was there a time limit on this in the past?

The previous approval had a five-year time limit. The lithium ion storage had a one-year time limit, and I believe that was in 2021.

I think according to the documents in here, I thought that said October of 2020.

That no longer is an issue.

Right, that one had expired. That's no longer an issue anyway.

I would consider a two-year time limit. Subject to cleaning up the site, subject to putting in the buffer. I guess it's kind of buffer planting.

I'm reluctant even two years because I mean, I've sat on this commission now. I don't know how long, but.

More than 40 years.

She's counting. Yeah. I mean, it's been.

You've been here 40 years.

Because I've been off for 40 years and you were on when I went off. I was? Yeah.

She was on the Wetlands Commission way back then.

Well, this one too. So you think even a one-year would...

I do, just because they have not done what we asked previously. And I would just like to see that look a little bit better. I mean, people go up and down. Bloomfield Avenue all the time and it's a very poor impression. I mean you've got a car dealership across the street that's trying to make that property attractive. You have a funeral home who people come from all over to go to funerals and wakes there and I just think it's a terrible impression that we're getting or that they are getting with All of that. I mean, I'm sympathetic to their issues. I understand them, but I think, you know, I think we've just got to make this work a little bit better.

I just have a quick question. I know we briefly talked about the parking spots. Are we good with the number of parking spots that they have with everything being taken over? I mean, it meets the code or whatever it is?

As best as I can tell, yes, it does. I mean, this was previously approved storage areas that I think have, Mr. Allen, I think it precedes my time here even.

The public area is closed. No, that's fine. I guess I could talk to Todd. Whatever you wish to do.

Well, I just, especially with the buffer, I would like to see that on a short leash. The rest of it, I mean, I'm sympathetic to their business issues, and so I'd be more willing to bend a little bit more for that. But I really would like to see that buffer go in sooner than later.

Would you like to make a motion then on that so that we...

Well, I don't know. Do you want us to separate it all out or do you want us to put it all in one motion?

It's two different public hearings.

They're two applications.

Okay.

Do you want the buffer on which property?

On the outdoor storage.

Which sits on which property?

Oh, that's both of them. Yeah.

812 is over here.

I think you could do both motions with the same.

It's the one on Addison Road.

Both motions.

That's by 770, so on the first one.

I think you could do, I just went blank, both motions with the same condition. And then we would also just add a condition of removing the lithium-ion storage.

Okay, on both motions. Yes, ma'am.

Actually, the second one doesn't say anything about lithium-ion.

Okay. Yeah, that's just on the 7800-808. That's the ion batteries, yeah.

And the church parking is... left aside for some other time, you have to look into it.

Yeah, we'll have to review that and possibly come back in for additional special needs.

We can include that, though, in any outstanding issues by the town. Subject to the staff memo.

Yes, ma'am.

All right. You ready?

I am ready.

I'm going to try this so you guys don't hesitate to jump in. Okay, I move approval of the special reuse application at 770-800-808 Bloomfield Avenue, outdoor storage pending, excuse me, with the condition that the reference to containers for lithium ion batteries be removed from the application per per the applicant and that the parking the overflow parking with the church that is adjacent across the street, across Addison Road, be resolved with town staff and that the screening along Addison Road be installed all for a period of no more than one year. Second.

Okay. Question. You mentioned the lithium ion, but Todd mentioned wanting the actual containers removed as well because he might be contaminated.

Okay. The lithium ion batteries and their containers.

Does that sound right to you, Todd?

Yeah.

Yeah. You especially worry about that, the containers themselves. Yeah, the fire marshal documented it on there.

Yeah, I think it's covered under the subject, the final staff and reviews and approval, but yeah. Okay.

So we have a motion and a second. Any comments, any debate? Okay. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion passes 5-0.

Okay, I move.

Second one now.

Approval for the special use at 812 Bloomfield Avenue outdoor storage for a period of two years.

Second second Any All in favor opposed no motion passes 5-0, thank you Okay Last public hearing Design Development Detail Plan of 1 and 10, Targeting Center and 465 Bloomfield Avenue, Phase 2, Multifamily Units in the B2 and RC Zones. And Alfred Solstice is here.

I'm going to stay here for a minute. Okay. Well, Mitch is getting it up. Mark Greenberg is the owner and the developer of the property. I'm Wilson Alford, Jr., Registered Professional Engineer and Land Surveyor. The office is at 200 Pigeon Hill Road. As soon as the property comes up. This is the property. The property is located on the south side of Bloomfield Avenue. As you're looking at the drawing on the right-hand side is Bloomfield Avenue. North is to the right as you're looking at the site. And I-91 is at the bottom of the sheet. We are here tonight for the detailed plan for the residential portion of the property, which is the rear portion of the property. Existing on the property are two office buildings that have been vacant for quite a while. There's one targeting, which is in the front. There's ten targeting, which is in the rear. The front of the property is vacant. The proposal that we are talking about for tonight is the rear portion of the property, which is the residential portion of the property. And we're proposing generally in the same footprint as the original one modified building for the front building for the rear for 10 targeting. Again, a modification of that building, and then an additional building in the middle of it. What we asked, the history of the piece of property as far as approvals with the commission is we secured for the whole piece of property a concept approval for the property. At that time, there was a Starbucks, which was shown in the front portion of the property. There's a Jersey Mike's and a Chipotle, which are located at this location. Those were on the concept plan. At the time that the concept plan was approved, there was a wetlands application, which was submitted for the whole property. That was approved by the Wetlands Commission at that time. We then came back subsequent to that and asked for the detailed approvals for the front portions of the property, the Starbucks and the Chipotle's, the Jersey Mike's. And the commission gave us an approval for the detailed plan for those. And as I said, we're now back for the rear portion of the property. There's 200 units, which would be in the buildings in the year. As far as status of the or the going forward, it's expected that the Starbucks, the Chipotle's will start construction within the next few months. We are now here to ask for the detailed approval for the rear portion of the property. As I said, one targeting, generally it's in the footprint of where the original building was. We have decided because of the sort of the the type of building, et cetera, it was easier to come up with a new building for that and for 10 targeting in the rear. And again, this is an entirely new building, which is located, we're calling it 5 targeting, which is here.

Did you just go back to the two that were existing? Why did you decide to build two?

It just was not feasible to... When the architects and the designers got together and the construction people, it was just not feasible to keep them. I'm a site civil. I deal five feet outside the building. That's what they told me is that we're going to have a new building there. One of the things which I did have input on, which is one targeting, there's a little notch which is over in here, and that's so that when we were reconfiguring the detention basin, it gave us a little bit more size for the detention basin. All of that was approved by the Wetlands Commission. And part of it is at least a little bit of history on the property. Originally, the detention basin was larger than what it is now. When the state widened the property, widened the highway in the 90s, they took the property, some property, they took some of the detention basin. So we had to enlarge it, and that's into the area which is here. As far as the amenities on the property, each of the buildings have their own barbecue area, picnic tables. If you're looking at one targeting, there's an area which is here, which also I think will be a fairly attractive area. For the detention basin, there's extensive plantings. It'll be a very interesting, you know, outdoor feature there. with the, there'll be some open water and the plantings around the outside of it, and it'll be a nice area here to sit. If you go back to one target, 10 targeting, we also have developed an area which is here, again, grills, picnic tables for that area. Additionally, outside, there's a dog walking area which is located, an outside area for dogs, which is located here. We also have outside, obviously, a gardening area for the residents, which is located over here. One of the features that is fairly interesting and exciting about the site is that we are introducing 200 apartments, which are located here, We're going to have a Starbucks, which is located here. We're going to have a Chipotle's, a Jersey Mike's. And I think the synergy of the whole project will make it different from anything else that there is around. I can picture people walking, enjoying Starbucks during the day. They've got the other areas which are there for food in the evening. combination of the type of uses that are there with the residential will obviously make it different than any other place that there is in town.

So all three of those buildings are residential?

All three of the dark brown ones are residential. Now, one of the things in the answer to one of the discussions, they will be condominiums. We are going to offer them for sale. So they will be different from Most of them that I think you've seen a while, just as the discussion was earlier, their business plan is to have ownership, apartments. The thought is there's quite a few of those that are around. There isn't anything where somebody can buy something and have an ownership interest in the property. We think, one, the project's going to be different anyway just because of the commercial that's associated with it, it'll also make it different because of the... as being for sale. Todd, there was another drawing which had the detail of the... I think it's one of the layout drawings, the detail of the courtyard of the...

Is there parking in that middle building?

There is parking underground in the middle building. If you look at it, it looks skimpy for parking. This, just to show you the amenities that there are, this is the courtyard of the larger, you know, the new building. In it, we have a swimming pool. We have a covered area. On it, there's a provision for a movie screen. There are ping-pong tables. This is the, I think it's, is the cornhole? The thing you toss and you try and get it into the... Cornhole. The thing you toss. There, again, there's picnic tables, grilling areas, et cetera. And we also, the building was shaped with the U open to the highway, and the reason being is that just so that if there were any concern about noise that was generated by the courtyard, it goes towards 91 and not towards the residents who were to the west. In each of the building, there's a pet grooming area, a cleaning area. In the larger building, there's a repair and bike storage area. There's also in the interior of the larger building, and as I pointed out in response to the question, there is below parking. There's also storage, which is on the south face of the building at that point. There are also interior to the building are common areas, interior of the building, so that what we've tried to do is come up with, you know, an amenity package that sets us apart from a lot of the other facilities that are on the market today.

Before you move on, you mentioned one was going to be condominiums for sale. Yes. Will it be all in the same building?

All of the units will be for sale. Yes. Yes, the whole complex.

So somebody who owns an apartment may live next door to somebody who's renting an apartment?

No.

No, he's saying they're all condominiums. They're all condominiums.

They would all be condos. In answer to your, I'll split hairs with you about your question. Somebody could own a condominium and rent it.

Yeah, I got it.

But, you know, the intent is.

So everything will be for sale?

Everything would be for sale and would be condo. I think, I mean, there's, you know, basically the plan is similar to what was the concept plan. This is the detailed plan. And basically what we did was we fleshed out the amenities that there were on the property. We put drainage in, grading, you know, et cetera, and so that it's pretty well the same plan that you looked at before, and we've just fleshed out the amenities on it. There are staff comments. I've been talking with Todd about his comments. You know, I have no problem with them. As far as the engineering comments, I got them, like, you know, Friday afternoon. I've looked through them. There's nothing in there that's, you know, a problem. And there's nothing in there that's going to change anything that the Commission really sees. A lot of them are, you know, keep us informed as to what you do with the MDC. Keep us informed as to what you do with the DOT. You have a permit that you need to get from the DEEP. In some cases, also, there's some confusion, I think. This went to a third-party reviewer who wasn't at the staff meetings and wasn't able to have the benefit of that. Some of the comments are holdovers from Phase 1, which really, you know, the detention basin was designed, approved with Phase 1, as far as I'm concerned. A lot of the comments deal with making sure the detention basin and the same comments were carried forward. So when you're looking at it, there's a lot of comments in there. None of them are going to change anything.

Just a quick question. I'm looking at the actual pictures of the buildings. Yes. It's not a parapet. It's like fencing on the roof. Is that like an area, it's just going to cover the RTUs? Is that the whole deal?

One of the comments that we talked to Todd about is to try and move them back so they don't look like they're adding to the height of the building.

Yeah. Well, I was just asking, I mean, that's not for people to go walking around, just the RTU covers. No. Okay, that's fine. I thought so, but I just saw all these openings. I'm like, oh, that might be pretty cool. Okay.

Don't give anybody any ideas.

Actually, this is sitting up there. You put a nice, some of those people like those rooftop.

You know, I remember when we were doing the hotels up on the, the Hilton up there, and Mario Zavarella wanted open balconies because he wanted people to be able to go out and look at the highway, so it's the same idea.

I assume that you calculated that there's sufficient parking for the number of units that you're proposing.

There's a comment from the third party reviewer that questions whether that's, and I don't know whether you're alluding to that or not. If you look at the documents he received, he received the documents which were the site plans and the drainage calculations. He didn't receive the building plans. And if you look at the building plans, the building plans have the parking that if you add those in, they didn't have the benefit of, in response to Mrs. Whitney's comment about is there a basement in it, they didn't have that benefit of asking me the question. So they weren't aware that the parking was down in the basement.

Are there any outdoor dumpsters?

There are two outdoor dumpsters.

Where will they be located?

The same as where they are now.

Well, I don't know where that is. Can you show me?

One is on the western portion. Mitch is pointing to it there. That's where the existing dumpster is. There's another one which is on the east side of the property. I see it. And for the larger building, There's an internal trash chute.

I saw that.

And what will happen is that the trash will be collected there in dollies or carts on wheels and it'll be coordinated when the dumpster comes to wheel those out, the dumpster picks them up and then they get wheeled back inside.

The one that is closest to the abutters on Mountain Road, is there any way that you could reposition that dumpster? Years ago when I lived, I lived in a very large apartment complex, and the dumpster was like right below my bedroom. And every, like at 4 o'clock in the morning, that dumpster guy would come in.

Sounds like the comment I got from my son with the dumpster when he was living in Williamsburg.

So you know what I'm talking about. Is there a way we can reposition that?

I'll take a look and see if we can reposition it. There is an existing, and we don't quite know what the building was built for, on the east side, and we'll take a look at that and see if we can accommodate and put it there.

Okay, I got it. Just a couple more. Is there going to be on-site management? Is that your...

Uh, the condominium association will hire a manager and then they will decide whether they will need, you know, I mean, it's different than, you know, the people that were talking before where they're there. And my guess is for something of 200 units, there's probably going to be close to a full time manager. But then again, that's the discussion with the, you know, the homeowners association of do they want a full time person there or not?

And it looks like the cladding on the buildings is similar to Hardy Plank. Is that correct? I don't know whether the architects... Like concrete siding.

You know, I don't know what the exterior of the building is. Now, one of the... Todd's... I don't know whether you... Do you like it or not like it?

Well... You know, there's a big push in this town to build things out of brick. That's a lot of brick.

I thought that was two planners ago.

Yeah. There's a lot of brick in this town. But I'm looking, you know, I look at the, I mean, I'm familiar with hardy plank. I mean, they may call it something different. When I lived in the south, they called it hardy plank. And it's really concrete. Probably Mr. Greenberg can tell me what hardy plank really is. No. Well, that's what they called it. It's made by a company called, I think, Hardy.

It's fiber cement panels.

Thank you. There you go.

Someone raised their hand. Ryan Kotz, is he with you?

What's that?

I think we have the architect online that can address those questions.

Okay. Is he on the line? Yeah, he should be with us.

Yes, good evening. Can everyone hear me?

Yeah. Okay.

Good evening, council members. This is Rian Coetzee. I'm with Marvellous Therefore Architects. We use the project architects on this project. I'm available to answer any questions regarding the exterior finishes that is proposed for this project.

So the question was, the facade of the buildings, is it going to be similar to cement board, hardy plank?

Yes, ma'am. Um, so it's a fiber cement products. So all of the finishes that you see are fiber cement. Okay, products, um, uh, some, some that looks like wood. To give a softer warmer feel that it's residential friendly, but it's all fiber cement for long lasting durability.

Okay. Um, skip when when they have to tear down the 2 buildings before you start construction, um. What kind of timeframe are you looking? I mean, are they going to just do it during business hours or?

It would be during, I assume during the business hours, during the day, and probably during the week. Yeah. And whatever controls there are that are necessary. Right.

I'm just cognizant of those neighbors that, you know.

I mean, the expectation is that when there's a contractor in there, the contractor's going to go in and he's going to take the building down as quickly as he can because that's how they make money.

Yeah. Okay.

You know, excuse me, without bragging it out.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay.

I asked Mitch to pull up the architectural and the elevations for the benefit of the public here and online. Ryan, if you could just kind of quickly go through that, the materials and kind of the different textures and what that would look like, because I think it's kind of hard to see on some of these elevations at this scale.

Yeah, sure. You know, each of the buildings, I think we have, you know, for the most part, you know, the palette consisting of four colors. You have two of the colors that is like a lighter color. And a darker gray, you know, almost has like a stone-like texture, but it is large format fiber cement, you know, that is a lot more current and I think very suitable for being next to a high traffic highway. The brownish color that you can see on there would be something that looks like wood, but also the large format fiber cement, and it's just to introduce some warmth to the project. It's a much more friendlier, softer product, especially using fiber cement. I think it adds a lot of softness to the building facades. And then there's a darker color, which we are using subjectively in certain places. Usually add at the corners of the building as like an accent point, and then also at the main entrance of the larger building at five targeting. And then, you know, there's a few spots where there's some accent panels, you know, that connects a few windows, you know, just to break up the larger intersections on likely facade. And I think overall we are using large windows Formed with aluminum windows is something that really creates a nice interior space but also helps to break up the exterior facade of the buildings. And then just a comment regarding the screens. So right now, the screens that we've shown on the roof, we don't know what the exact equipment is going to be. But the intent of those screens is to screen those equipment. And it's likely that the scale or footprint of them would be a lot smaller than what is shown there. But that is just to show some design intent. um and then overall each building has a walk out access to the roof for easy um i think equipment maintenance yeah it's always hard with these large buildings when you have a ladder you know a sort of fixed straight up ladder that you have to climb up and you know in order to maintain those um units so um you know i think those roof access workouts you know will make

Mitch, can you just scroll through some of those elevations? Thank you.

Do you have any more comments? Do you have any more questions?

Oh, I'm sorry. Were you asking me?

No, no. I was asking you because I didn't know if we were done. And I just had one quick question.

We were letting you do all your questions first.

We didn't know if you were done. I'm sorry. I just looked up whether Hardy Plank and Cement Board were the same. Hardy Plank is just manufactured by James Hardy. That's why they call it Hardy Plank. But it's basically the same thing.

Correct.

I just had a quick question. You're requesting also a waiver for the irrigation landscaping? Yes. Is that throughout the entire area? Can you just explain why?

When I talked to an agronomist years ago, what they said was that in lieu of putting in irrigation If you put down, instead of, many people specify four inches of topsoil, if you specify 10 inches of topsoil, then you get away from the need for irrigation. And I'd like the waiver for, it may very well be some areas they decide to put the irrigation in, but there may be areas where it's small and it doesn't seem like it's worth it to put the irrigation in.

Thanks for the clarification.

And we've specified, I think, throughout to have 10 inches of topsoil so that you'd have a decent lawn even without the irrigation. Sure. I've got a couple questions.

Yeah. First of all, I was going to mention, the last time you were here, a lot of the neighbors on Mount Road came and they wanted a fence, and it looks like you've included a fence on here.

The fence was included with the detailed plan for Phase 1. Right. Okay. And would be installed... I can't remember what the language is, but I think at the beginning of the construction.

Yes.

And like when the Waterside Crossing people were here, they mentioned that they were having to increase their water main from like two and a half inches to four inches. Are they making you do something similar?

We're, I don't know which sizes are there now. And for the most part, we're putting in new, you know. No new lines anyway?

What?

New lines anyway? Well, at least for the lighting, we're going to put in entirely new stuff because it's, you know, Commissioner, Mrs. Whitney, she missed the question of how old they were, the early 80s, so we don't have the asbestos, but it also means the electrical is the early 80s. And, you know, we've talked about, you know, do we keep, and the discussion was, well, we might be able to salvage some bollards, but we're still going to be dealing with lines in the street which are 45 years, you know, the electrical lines connecting it will be 45 years old, and that's probably just asking for trouble to leave them there. And so that would be done. And I don't, I got from the mechanical engineer the size of the lines coming in, and I can't remember whether they were different from the original.

I just wonder if you got the capacity to mess with water and sewer, because you mentioned MDC before is, you haven't really addressed all that yet.

Yeah, we're dealing with the MDC. It's a sewer. It goes out to Blumfield Avenue. The water, there's an existing water line that runs in the existing driveway.

Okay. The only question, I was looking at the elevations and stuff. I forget what our limitation is, but it seemed like the side towards the highway might be pushing past the 50 feet in the elevation.