Pœrtner Park Ad-Hoc Group - Regular Meeting

alrighty give Melanie a sec to go live here okay welcome to the February 4th 2025 meeting of the partner Park ad hoc group um I have no opening room marks I'm anxious to get started we've got some great maps that teras put together to kick around and a couple of other things some decisions to make already which is great so um we'll start with a roll call chair Rambo here M Stevens here M rton member Scott here member Tupper here m rer Ramen member jaxi and we have a quum member jaxi is oh yeah that's right oh he's in he's over there oh yeah okay um so first is approval of the uh minutes from the January 7th 2025 meeting did anyone find any errors in the minutes hearing none I'm going to declare them approved as um my example uh uh Miss Stevens typically does and uh move on to public comments do we have any public comments no we have no uh all right no one here and no one online okay so um we will move to the overview of the meeting materials uh for Mr with Mr bich thank you Mr Mr chair Mr chair and

members of the group first of all thank you for being here tonight I know the meeting turn around it's a little quick and certainly we're doing our best to give you the information you want in a timely manner so we all don't forget what we said at the last meeting despite the minutes and so again thank you for being here tonight in preparation of tonight's meeting number of items have been provided to you as part of the packet I just want to briefly go over those items so you can kind of understand what is available and and in some instances what is not with an explanation to follow later in the meeting first of all the department has been working with terce backck our consultant on this matter Ken kitel and Mr kitel prepared at first two maps one was the site distance analysis of the existing access plan on kinkin road into the parkite and then the other was what I would describe as a base map that base map was developed through our discussions at our last meeting at Old Pon school and as you recall at that meeting we had a board with the plan sheet on it and the department just as you talked added comments to it and for the most part those were the comments Mr titel received from the Department those two items were provided to as part of the I believe Friday email over the weekend I was reviewing the plan and thought H there sure are a lot of these little symbols at one location on the park property that location was the farmer s of the single family dwelling and so I asked Mr catel if he could basically pull out an insert of that maybe make it a little easier to read and understand so that's the third map that's been provided previously

received information from the structural engineer that was engaged by terc so I went ahead and provided that again so you kind of see in black and white and the photographs the condition of the Bank building which from at least one member of the Department of planning and Parks was a great disappointment and that person is speaking into the microphone right now and so you have that information as well so of the tasks that were given to the Department of planning and our consultant Mr kitel if we've addressed all of them first and foremost we did the site distance analysis secondly we did a quick structural analysis of the Bank building the largest of the structures that remain on the property and then the maps themselves two versions same information but two versions so that's the information for you tonight we go to the next item which is the discussion of the site design I'll go into a couple more details and then I'm going to let Mr kitel add anything then Mr chair with your permission we want to hear from you it's okay thank you well with that we'll jump right in so Mr kitel Mr ripo and I had a discussion after the last meeting and at that last meeting the group members asked that we provide three options and so that was the direction that was given to Mr kitel there would be three options or three maybe different PLS and so as Mr kitel prepared the the options it came to he came to a conclusion that that's going to be very difficult because what we're asking for isn't necessarily that

complicated Trails parking Etc and so we all had a conversation and the department hopefully with your concurrence decided let's build the base map and the options can come from the base map that way we can kind of move the pieces of the puzzle around if they're not where you want them and then the options will follow as we refine the our discussions of the improvements and then ultimately have our final option but the intent was not to ignore your direction it was more so to provide you something that for all intensive purposes is the workable representation of your thoughts and then go from there so I think the key components I just want to highlight and I will not spend much time on them because again Mr kyel is the author and you all are our editors but one key element is that we are showing um a circular or semicircular drive and parking access and that means there's two points of Ingress egress on the hanen road the Ingress off of Hen Road is generally at the same location of the existing Drive the new access which is that which would lead you out of the site is further what I will call to the east I should say South based upon the north Arrow so my apologies the intent of that is quite simply functionality and safety safety probably being the most important in that it complies with our pite distance requirements which means we can get people in and out of the park site

safely with this design the second part of that area I want to emphasize is that clearly from our discussions at our last meeting the group members stated we don't want to overpark so I thought Mr kitel did a very nice job of integrating the access and the drive a into the parking and as you can see we have a limited number of spaces those spaces however are visible from hanen Road and I'll let Mr kitel explain he did try to do the parking down below by where the Bank building is and there was just some issues with Graves I'll let him go in more detail the thing that threw me a curve and this the last item I'll mention before re relinquishing the podium is on the plan sheet there's a number 10 and it's a big white rectangle and I thought oh the Bank building he's figured it out we can save it and he said no the Bank building according to the structural engineer is a little too far gone but it is a great location maybe for a larger shelter and so that's what that represents so with that I'll take any questions on my brief remarks but again with the permission of the chair I like Mr kitel maybe give his overview or just some comments and then we'll Jump Right In thank you so um my initial thought when I saw this was that this was a really great effort it's a strong start and I think it was exactly the right approach not to get wrapped around the axo trying to do three um three examples we we kind of do that a little bit more frequently than we have to we can adjust from here and get exactly what we want and so what I'd like to request is and so good job and good job

to you guys too and it was a quick turnar around so I'm very impressed um I would like to if it's feasible to split your presentation into two talk about the site the um the um the parking area specifically and because I've got a lot of questions about that and then we can go to the um the other page if that's if that's for for you to present it that way the other page being the the the the the larger Park map with the with all the amenities and showing the um showing the Pez and so on and so forth because we've got the one that you're calling the master plan site distance that's that's worthy of a separ that's worthy of a separate discussion in my does anyone disagree with that b fine okay Lesley speak up if you have anything to add we don't want to ignore you I will all right okay so um let's uh let's go ahead and do that because you're you're showing some I'll throw out some of the difficulties I have here um we were concerned about the site distance I can't figure out exactly what your profile is demonstrating to us I'm confident that you've figured out that we have adequate sight distances um but my qu my larger question would be why do we have a separate why do we kind of swoop through in an arc why don't we have bidirectional at one location or the other because it seems like a lot of extra pavement that's not getting us any parking and it looks like you have a number of the spaces look like it's parallel parking which is perfectly fine with me I can parallel parking my sleep but a lot of people can't so um I those are the kinds of questions that I'd like you to to um talk I'll be happy um first off um as far as the profiles that

you're talking about sections down below push the button till the red light comes on okay can you hear me yep um we can hear you but but or recording no that's fine silence if you don't have unless I can't um the profiles that are down below are basically uh if you were to take and um take a section right down the sight line those sight lines are shown in the on plan View and I think it says below it 280 foot uh that is the minimum uh sight distance requirement for that speed Road okay and then basically there are requirements as to where you where that's cut you have to have the driver 14 and2 ft minimum back from the edge of the road it has to be you're looking to the right and to the left um and uh that cross section shows what the grade is that dash line shows that when you're looking out the line that you're seeing coming from the eyeball on the um profile is where the direct line of side is going over to the car that you see at the other other end of the profile and that dash line that goes on down that is the existing grade that's there so you can see it's a clear view as far as the grade is concerned now I need to qualify that we've achieved that sight distance because there are some trees especially looking to the right which when you're coming coming out you're looking to the right or looking to the east uh you're going across this huge uh Valley so to speak now you have to also

realize that that's a an exaggerated vertical scale so lengthwise it looks like it's a canyon and it's really not it's five times greater going uh vertically than it is going horizontally so and basically in inch you're going 20 ft uh horizontally and you're only going 5et vertically so and that's just to show uh you know make it visually clear that there's there's no obstruction if we drew it to scale in both of them it would just more or less look like a flat line so this isn't even marginal is my understanding of what you just said this is this is this is perfectly safe on that speed of Road plus some fudge Factor because I know people with pores and hot rod motorcycles that have gone 100 plus miles an hour and that that is based on St Louis County's criteria for that speed design speed Road okay um now the caveat to that is that if you're looking to the right along the RightWay we have some trees and so it will we will have to either remove some trees along the roadway or we'll have to limb them up up so that we can we can get that sight line so there's one big pine tree is that is that kind of and and remember I called you and asked where I said they were digging and it looked like they were tearing up some bushes is that well the pine tree at the existing AIS that large one there's there's two large um pine trees at the existing driveway on either side okay I'm I'm talking about on the the the entrance side okay I'm talking all about the exit because the exit which is the one

furthest East the new one the new one correct that's the one that's of concern okay I'm of I'm not worried about entrance at all because you're not having to look both directions to pull in you basically are coming and you're pulling in okay so there are a handful of lilacs there that would be nice to save just because they're they parking back to the the way it was you know 100 years ago cuz I'd be surprised if those things were yes younger than and that's that's fine because you have not you don't have a car sitting in the driveway looking both directions in order to see because you're coming off of the roadway pulling into the site so there really isn't a site distance issue on that entry side so I was I'm I'm arguing for um having having a having a um pre- surgeon cut the limbs up 14 ft high and get them out of our way the tree is still thriving and it's there and it's adds drama to the site but we don't have any sideline issues is that you offer that as a solution there there's not a a sight line issue on the entrance side but there still will be even and there won't be a a sight line issue on the exit side as long as we as far as grade is concerned the reason it's located right where it is is because that is the top of the hill on the road MH so you can see in both directions now irregardless or that's not even a word regardless of the um uh the terrain the trees are the only things that are of a bit of a concern to me and that's solvable uh you know we can either limb them up like I said or if it happens to be right smack d in in front of the car then that one may

have to be removed okay so maybe one tree and the way I was looking at it there more the trees that are further east where the the roadway actually kind of Curves back around to the South there's a group of trees over there they're all deciduous I think at that point they can easily be limed up and you can you know you can see them through uh the vertical trunks so I don't see that the that's going to be a problem MD all okay so can you address the reason for the separate entrance and exit uh is it is it just a matter of flow or to reduce the size of the connection to henen or um I don't want anybody leaving the site from the existing location the site distance is not adequate in either direction for leaving there so that necessitates you're solving the problem you can turn in with the with a with you can turn in without any sight distance you just can't leave what about the am I right in in in uh guessing that your parking spaces are parallel they are parallel and the the reason that they're parallel is because it uses up less space sure and and it was my uh understanding from this committee that you only wanted like three or four spaces in the first place and so I've got 10 spaces here you know if you don't want that many we can start lopping them off I think 10 is kind of a good number okay okay question you've got parallel parking on both sides of the drive yes sir if you put took parallel parking off one side wouldn't there be enough space for angle 45°

parking on one side yes sir there would and since you have it's a one-way thing it'd be easier just to pull in to a a 45 degree space that would be my only thought because not many people know how to parallel park anymore uh that's but that's quite a ways down the road well that that's excellent though and I can certainly that's my thought is but all on one side and angle park that's and and that that's an excellent comment and I have already taken a look at doing that we we end up putting a little more um uh Pavement in because it uses up a little more pavement getting the the cars in at you know so let's say a 45 degree angle or whatever angle we want to put it in and obviously if we put them in at a a a 60° angle you're going to get less parking if you're going to put it in 30 you'll get a little more parking but we'll have somewhere around that uh you know 8 to 10 parking spaces either way I did it to reduce the amount of Paving as much as I possibly could yeah plus I think parallel parking on the wrong side of the street people have trouble parallel parking on their side of the street so I I just think it's it creates a problem and and the only the only reason why and I agree with you I don't use parallel parking very often um and the only reason why I did this is I was not really anticipating that you're going to have 10 cars there I agree I I've just kind of like um over at Bluff you we have parallel parking all on the inside of the uh loop and people pull up there and they they Park in there but there's

usually five or six cars so there you know plenty of room to pull in and pull out without actually having to back in and back out so okay that was the main reason yeah Mr chair if I could yes please if I may offer a suggestion um I and Mr Kel and Mr Scott have maybe already thought of this as well as the rest of you but I would remove the three spaces that are on the west side of the Improvement those three parallel spaces and then keep the ones on the east side and make them a 45 I'm an advocate for the 45 degree party I think okay if I can make a comment here um one of the another reason that I went with the narrow parallel parking is just the flow of the trail system rather than having to bring it all the way out if you notice on the south end I have a a subst stantially long uh retaining wall there so that we don't have to grade all the way down to that little depression area or I mean that's about how far down the grading goes if we don't put the retaining wall in now if we come in and we put angled parking in on that side then um we're going to create a situation where we have a lot taller wall or we just make from basically where see where the number four is on the parking lot from that point going to the uh uh to the exit that would end up having to be just a driveway a one-way drive and all the parallel or all the angular

parking would be between the four and um the entrance yeah yeah I think these are minor issues that you can work out as best you see but just my comments of you've considered it and uh I think it's I really like the plan I think it's really well done and well considered yeah so so so um I'll ask the department then Joe um how much of this do we have to kind of start nailing down I mean um 10 spaces that seems like a lot we were thinking fewer T spakes seems like a good you know in the right range particularly if we can consider uh a handful of them with the um permeable you know the the parking material that the Park Service uses we've talked about a lot I forget the name but um um something that's less it's less pavement and more natural are you familiar with the product I am I'm not a I'm not an advocate of that okay so so if it's good enough for the for Missouri parks department why are you not an advocate does it just not last the way you you wish it would or well you run into uh issues with how it's striped how how you you actually stripe if you're talking about oh no no no no no if you if you go to there's a number of again um State Park facilities that just have the parking and it's along the along the entrance Road and it's just there and it's not striped or anything I mean they don't try to stri but they just people if they show up to an event and there's going to be a hundred cars they're just parking alongside of it and instead of parking in the ditch or in the field they're parking on a solid that's something I mean we could

get back to a half dozen spaces and then have a handful more if there's a big family event or something and and I would be an advocate of that if for instance on uh the spaces that Joe asked to remove yeah yeah yeah yeah come in and turn those into uh you know um the grass Creed or whatever uh particular brand we use I like uh it's it used to be called Ritter Rings it has another name now but it's actually a PVC uh that's about uh 4 in deep and they're oh I want to say it's a 3 in or 4 in diameter PVC pipe that're all glued together into a mat and then you actually put that down you put sod over the top of it you don't have the issue with the sun baking the concrete and killing the grass uh it it basically does fine and yet you can carry a fire truck on it love to consider something like that especially in the in that in that spot opposite the um parallel parking and if we get some angled spaces um yeah I think it's a yeah these are these are all details and in my opinion we're at a master plan stage I probably put more design development into this master plan than most Master plans so I mean I agree with you I agree with you this is very detailed it's very you're talking about something like RIT ring but what about you know what's your yeah oh yeah I'm an architect okay so what about about that versus Forest pavement what's what's your experience I've got some concerns about that that's

looks like it falls apart pretty much depends on what kind of porest pavement you're talking about if you're talking about porest concrete if you're talking about porous asphalt or if you're talking about porest papers three different things asphalt I would not recommend to anybody concrete is it breaks down after a while I mean have you ever seen poris conrete I mean it kind of looks like Rice Krispies if you put it down on that I've seen I mean and that's and that that I've used before uh my preference is to go ahead and use permeable pavers but once again now you're just adding pavement exactly right so yes yeah yeah and and we're the idea was to get away from anything that feels or looks like Paving in favor of something that looks like grass you can park on sort of thing so okay so we're completely tracking um I think this is a good disc because the more you the more you know about our preferences the more you can narrow it down on the next PA and so I don't think this was wasted effort but um I think we can um if if if we need to make any decisions on the locations I'm ready to say yeah that's where our interest in erress are going to be and um and the general concept of that parking we just need to TW can is that is that is that appropriate to to provide that guidance to certainly I believe it's appropr at for that particular component of the overall master plan and then we can move on from there I just have a couple of comments when Terrace backc Ken kitel and the city developed Glen Co city park one of the functions of the main walkway was also to provide emergency access to the residents that live on what I would consider the east side of the park when the aramac river floods um up to Third Street and Beyond so we used Ritter rings on either side of the walkway to

expand it but we didn't want it to look like a road and so they worked out well and I don't think most people realize that several inches of that either side of our walkway is actually have Ritter rings and there sod there and um they can drive on it they've driven on it and it works very well if you want to see an example of peral peral havers applied in the city the trail head at Ridge Meadows Elementary School we did 10 parking spaces at the top of the trail and those are the permeable pavers they've done extremely well at least in terms of longevity they're a little more expensive as Mr Kel mentioned but if you want to see a couple of examples we have them the parking lot at the MoDOT I mean um moot misser Garden a good bit of that is those kinds of and they're just spectac they look gorgeous and um they're just wonder oh I applaud you all in wanting to have the park look more natural than manicured so to speak especially put parking more in neighb yeah than than we and before we leave the parking lot could you just kind of go through your logic because the direction to Mr kitel was maybe to consider having the parking below down by the bank building and okay um the main consideration I mean once again we've got as you can see we've got a handicap parking space You Know by by code we need to have a handicap parking space um the slope of uh if you've all been out there the gravel road that goes down to the lower part of the uh Bank Barn uh the lower level that's at about

14 15% slope um and granted we could put an asphalt Drive uh going down to a lower level but we don't really have the adequate room to have a parking down there and get people turned around and and back up and then if you have a handicap parking space down there then they've got no place else to go except down there um so it all led to making more sense to have the parking up above rather than trying to force something down below those great points and um you'd have a very expensive parking space with an unnatural looking um retaining wall on the downhill side and all that kind of stuff just we'd be spending all our money on uh infastructure that we can get by having a flatter spot up correct o think that you put it there that's up near the uh entrance that you're showing here which the handicap parking space no the if you put the parking down near the barn M at the lower level that's moving it up towards the entrance you're proposing here which you're proposing only as an entrance so you would have trouble getting people out there you would have to still put a drive someplace so that you could get to someplace where you could have reasonable sight lines for exiting exactly you would end up putting that same Loop in in there just that people would go down have two-way traffic to come back up make a right and then go on out so there won't be enough cars there right and it's not like there's going to

be dump trucks park there things like that so I hope maybe not well the intent too would be with budget consider budget considerations taken into account the island that would be created Now by Hen Road in the proposed access and parking area that island of grass we would landscape so as we could screen much of the parking at least um at least the car itself maybe not so much the the activity associated with it but we can certainly do landscaping just the honeysuckle grow up in there well that's within our budget yeah and then part of this discussion is you know saving a few bucks where we can but I am I have to say I am thrilled I I I hate as badly as anyone to see that that bank Barn go because of the historic because of my great family story but you know what this is spectacular solution this bang barn style shelter I just think it's a spectacular solution and I love the St on the on the foundation but that we could save money there by some ctitious parging or whatever which is more in character with the four folks that lived there in the first dang place and so um there's ways to to save money on that building and make it just a great evocative structure and we can put a little plaque there to you know tell the tell the um the bootleg history and um I just I think it would be um within our budget and is the idea to put the restrooms in the bottom no that what no I have right now I was like okay as you know the department has some items stored over there yeah and so I

was thinking you know we've already got this all dug out uh we're going to have to tear out the existing Foundation structural engineers said you know we can't really utilize any of that so uh but I wanted to create uh a similar style it doesn't really have the the same look and like you said we could easily put a plaque on the side that shows the old Bank Barn uh and why that shelter looks the way it does um and then I I basically thought well you know it's a good place for the shelter to be because it's centrally located I can get Ada access down to it and then down below that can be utilized by the park Department as storage or whatever needs to be done I was hoping to save some money on the restroom facility that you show separately and also to talk about the um the viewing structure which seems a little bit Superfluous we have this nice um um probably underutilized shelter that can serve more it that structure could serve several purposes and so uh Joe may feel like he really needs a storage structure and this is as good as any place to put it and I understand that but it's really a park and so um i' suggest at least thinking about it or talking it over before we decide that we have a separate restro facility and a separate shade structure and um and and so forth unless you guys have put a lot of discussion into it the reason that we we're not utilizing the lower level for anything else is getting Ada access to it you can't get down there unless we come in and we do a lot of the same slope you got the same driveway slope problem that you had correct I've got I'm saying service Vehicles can go down

15% slope but if we come in and we try to get Ada ramp down to the lower level we're going to be going all over the place to get it down there so what we're calling the service Drive number 18 that's strictly for Park Service vehicles and it's not we're not going to allow any public traffic on that road is that kind of the it personally I don't see why you know person couldn't drive their car down I mean you know you're not going to drive down there if you're disabled but drive down there you know I guess you could park I I guess I would offer that you have it closed off only because uh it's not going to be visible from the street and if you've got police periodically patrolling it if if you got somebody down there back behind the bank Barn yeah yeah yeah you're not going to see them well if it's only 8T wide I think that would be problematic because there could be people walking along and some people are rude and some people are yeah I agree uh and we don't want to PVE it any wider um I was going to suggest putting the handicap parking down there space down there but that that wouldn't work out there's too much turning around that okay well that's disappointing but what about the so so M Mr chair if I may why don't you let M ripo Mr kitel and I look at that lower level obviously your statement regarding the the necessity of storage um maybe isn't as important as I thought it might be and if we weren't to use it for a restroom or storage what would be a good function for that lower level could we make it more of an appealing space for use so if you could give us a little time to kind of work through that discussion maybe we can come back with a couple of options for you to as long as it doesn't break back

you know that would be the is is any of the existing septic system being the septic tank and the Drainage Field usable for the plumbing there no sir sir well field is that and that was I'm sorry um that was was another reason why we don't really not going to work very well trying to put the bathroom down there is cu there's no place for a field um you know where I've got it now we've got that entire Meadow area that we can utilize and you know nobody's going to be the wiser that it's even there right and we have to be uh well it's it's 50 feet so that's not a problem but we have to be a minimum of 50 ft away from the well with any kind you know well we would be no matter where you yeah just about anywhere in the oh yeah over there is not a problem feet takes you up to the uh the Northern end of the uh parking lot so I mean I I just I didn't think that you wanted it I mean to me it makes a lot more sense to come in and put it right near where the parking is Absolut Absol where that shade is on the oppos on the other side of the path on the I guess the outside of the path there that'd be an ideal location because people are going to park and they're going to want to do their business before they walk down to the correct and and the main reason that I didn't do it is one um on the notes that I had we had viewing area I was not uh 100% sure what our view would be from the the new shelter so that's why I kind of put this you know it's a relatively small shade structure I thought this is the area that was shown to me to be the best View kind of overlooking the lake and everything so if we did some

clearing and stuff and you sat under the shade structure you'd have a a really nice view um you're right the the bathroom could easily go there it could actually go where we've got um e which is just identifying the existing driveway I just was trying to get this structure which is not um necessarily that desirable to look at you know from the the view from the road so that's why I kind of stuck it more over by itself that was the main reason so you Joe I know I'm skipping around because I'm excited and I think this is a great plan um I apologize if you want to be more structured I'm happy to tr to accommodate that desire far so good I think everybody's getting their chance to to to to weigh in um I will say that we might need another shadish rain rain protection type structure down by the lake you're going to put a structure going to spend the money for a structure might want to put it closer to the lake so you know families you know baiting hooks in the sprinkles I do have a gazebo down there do you okay yeah okay so we we can I mean we we just save 20 grand for and again they they don't all have to go in at once maybe the one big one but I tell you you get somebody to put their name on it and you know be in memory of so and so and I I think we could build structures all over this place yeah um that's kind of the Leslie's point you know we can get some of our furniture built by the Boy Scouts or something like that but um but um yeah okay so so um what would be next kind of talk through the uh the pathways or I think the layout is great we would be tweaking it 20 times before we're done but it was a

the the structural engineer confided to Mr kitel that he was surprised by the deterioration of the bank buildings foundation and he theorized that there might have been some kind of costic liquid in that area said there was a certain smell that he got when he went in there can't I deide myself with happiness that we're going to be able to present that also Ken said that both of them left happier than they were we were very happy okay um on that bank that bank Barn um the it it appears from the photographs that the floor structure the wood floor structure is sound and the wood is in good shape the the rafters are good the beams are good I disagree with that I red around yeah okay just looking at the photographs it looks uh granted the foundation is no good is it is that wood salvageable and being that it's old wood that it could be donated to the essn log cabin for their floor joist or roof Raptors the the wood itself for the most part looks like it's in good shape yeah if you're talking about the structure itself like reutilizing portions of it the whole thing's racked one way and yeah that's I'm just talking about take taking it apart in pieces and reusing the uh wood members I mean even the beams could be again milled into it's old Lumber so I'm sure it's h it would be a lot nicer to use than brand new

Lumber and if it could make maybe save a few dollars on the essn Log Cabin if that Lumber was given to the uh to the contractor I think from the perspective of the ad hoc group and as ripo and I if we didn't salvage some of those materials particularly the ones that are in good shape we failed I think our practice has been for the most part from day one and somebody demos something and they don't have a use for it and just say it's going to the landfill we take it because we've used it in almost all of our Park systems that sighting a lot of the sighting is valuable you know people pay good money for old aged Barnwood but I think you'll be disappointed in the condition might be I don't yeah I don't know what's under I looked I mean they they reminded me of the beams in the T home yeah I was just just looking at the photo graphs here of down in that down in the lower level of that you and it looks like that's good good wood there I'm not looking at the necessarily the the uh studs in the wall or the sheathing I don't know maybe that's good but it looks like the actual wood structure that that wood is in good shape and could be reused well my thought and this is only my thought and you're the architect I'm a landscape architect so that tells you about what you're going to get with the structure but my thought here was that we could utilize some or a lot of that wood in the shade structure that we've got that we're putting back in my only concern there is you have a bank Barn that for

the most part has siding or cladding on it that has protected that wood all these years and if we come come in and we actually you know make the shelter or build portions of the shelter out of it that it's going to expose it to sunlight and water and everything else and it may deteriorate a lot faster but what it could be done we're my thought here on the uh the shelter was that we would use um you know c0 steel U corrugated corten steel on the roof and why not go ahead and use a lot of the um uh joist or whatever as the underlayment under the uh you know on on the underside of the shelter which then would be very rustic looking also so but here the AR there's a barn that's another barn that's completely collapsed and it's got some good sighting there and I think we can salvage enough okay talk enough about wood you guys have your direction on that um what's the next um what's the next discussion item i' would like to maybe talk about the trail Network and so we talked about a couple of things Mr kitel and again I'll just set the table make sure the Fork's on the right side and then I'll let him take it from there so we talked about different types of trails from that which would be Ada accessible to what was described by Miss Tupper as the bushwhacker that which would take us into the let's say the more challenging portions of the site and so that's the direction that was given to Mr kitel and I'll let him take it from there okay the very first thing that I did was I established the Ada accessible Trails those are all paved

the gray ones the gray ones that go around the perimeter and allow them access to the small gazebo that's up in the middle of of each one of the meadow areas is uh and there's actually a loop you can you can start at one end go around Loop and then go by the uh the parking all the way and then loop back around so you could you know make that track as many times as you wanted to and and it's uh basically accessible to everybody um and that I think I've got that at five feet wide I figured 5T wide is wide enough for two people if they're just strolling along but you know we don't have a big trail and it's not encouraging uh you know skaters and bikers and everybody to be using it all at the same time it's just a comfortable width um I was proposing that it might be uh like exposed aggregate concrete um that could then be you know a you know meramac uh River gravel or whatever that's more natural than having just a plain white concrete out there or whatever so that's just my thought there um and like I said it's it basically goes around the transition area uh all around the edge of the the meadow try not to intrude into the meadow it's got a 5% maximum slope so we have no ramps or anything just it goes from zero to 5% no handrails there's no handrails okay no I don't have any handrails on this whole project um my only disappointment is that I can't get Ada access down to the the

pond yeah it's just I well I mean I've got a nice Trail going down there most of all the the dirt trails that you see the dark ones I think I've got the maximum slope on any of those is about um I think I had about 18% was the max now there's probably a thousand ways that you can do these dirt trails through the woods so I mean I would not at this stage get picky about the direction or anything basically what I did is I went and I I uh set my template at roughly 14% And I just went 14% kind of cross slope on down and it's only a twoot wide single track so it be really easy to cut it on in there um if you want areas that are steeper you can easily do that and you can make it go wherever you want so please don't get hung up on on the exact location of these natural Trails um the only other thing that I was thinking would be nice uh but I wasn't I didn't want to spend a lot of time was trying to get at least one leg to go down into the woods that was handicapped accessible but there's without going all over the entire park there's no way to get him down to the lake it's just too steep so um I'm dominating this conversation I'm sorry does anybody have any comments on that okay well if yeah I well I'm fighting you for dominant I apologize for that too um finding handicapped accessibility in the natural envir environment is very difficult and I

think this is an excellent approach to it and uh so I and yes I you're not going to get down to the pond unless you put in an aerial tram or something like that um and I think a lot of the when the trail goes in a lot of it's going to be ad hoc if you're going there you get to a point there's going to be erosion here let's move it here and adjust it but I think if you look at this is the general path we're going to go and we'll we'll make a uh we'll make a trail here so I I I just uh again as you admitted I'm amazed at how much you've put on here so far and how good it looks so thank you thank you very much I appreciate it so Mr chair I would just draw your attention into one feature of the natural surface trails and that is the trail around the water feature that was a consensus item when we visited the site back at the beginning of January and at our meeting later in January is that we want full access around the water feature if we could so that was a key element that was included in the directions to Mr pel yeah I I I I love the trail out um it takes it it it's a very good shot at what we're hoping to accomplish I would I would love to I mean Ken is there any way up at the North End um the um the the the path that encircles the the Ada path that encircles that field it looks as though you could run along the contour line through the woods

without um violating your maximum slope concern and get down close to the um at least the uh the Eastern projection of the pond and then handicap folks could could get to the pond is that am I I'm I'm sorry I'm totally I was I was at the North End of the park which is one see number one up there on uh well see D you see D at the very top D at the very top of the uh yeah Meadow yeah yes so if you come around to the north make that long Bend and then you get to like number one let's say it looks as though you could follow contour lines down through the woods at a very shallow slope and get further down toward the lake well um you you can't can't no um one um the the problem starts to become uh you know it's one in 20 so by the time you're all the way over at the the lake um you're most of the way down but the fact that well and and also the fact of trying to build this 5 foot wide walkway on a slope you're going to end up starting to have walls on upper yeah yeah I mean basically it yeah I ran into that my house and I did Boulders I bu up Boulders so Mr chair I think what we've got is two two degree two types of slope we have that slope that we always talk about but that was a very Steep Hill I just walked up but I think in this case it's also that side slope that we have

to deal with yeah and obviously with Ada um require Ms the side slope is ath asking we will get questions about the handicap accessibility even though as Steve suggested it's real hard in the natural environment to make it and this is a very worthy effort um to accommodate um folks that that have U mobility issues it's hard to put a 5 foot path through the woods sure and not take down any um so this is this is a linear half mile of exposed aggregate concrete um on a base of mushy top soil that's that that could be expensive is there an alternative does 8 offer less expensive Al I mean is it would it be like asphalt or something like that is that about the problem that you run into if you switch to Asphalt is well is the width their pavers are equal wide sure sure sure yeah and so it costs you a lot more to try to block that out and put a a five foot wide path in didn't want an 8 foot wide um there are uh since it's really 5% slope over most of it and it's not exactly flat I would uh say you know much like the Katy Trail or the AL Foster Trail know that's perfectly flat 2% slope maybe at best you can come in with a a compacted uh Limestone and that would be fine the the problem with that is and I'm sure if you talk to somebody from you know the Missouri Department of of uh natural resources they're probably

spending tons and tons of money constantly repairing that aggregate surface it washes a lot yeah it wash and you every time you have a terrible rain it's going to end up with issues and if I've got a 5% slope on it you're going to end up having to put ditches on the uphill side and then you know so I mean it's on the one hand it sounds like it would be less expensive but then on the other hand it ends up being more no no no it worth asking the question up front sir so here the next question is the spur that I think I originally requested that goes from roughly the parking area down and angles off to the north I guess the Northeast and meets up with henken at the bottom of the hill um does that part have to be Ada because it's not going anywhere in other words can we just have the what I'll call the North Loop and the South Loop covering the two fields and then um do something less some less expensive soft surface Trail um along hanen Road downhill is that yes sir well um isn't that no no no no and let me explain what that that is that is not an ADA Trail oh it's not it's not um during our meeting that uh um Melanie and and Joe and I had um was Joe had a a a a request to be able he says that henen road gets a moderate amount of bike traffic and obviously they're coming heading south and they're having to go up that hill uh it's a one lane road for all intense purposes so our this was our attempt to get them off of the road on the hill and bring them back up so that they can get back on flat surface talked about that

very good so very smart idea that's an expensive stretch because I've got Boulder retaining walls on both sides so and I mean we can grade it out but then you're just you're you're chewing up the meadow so I'm going to ask I'd like to ask about that because um and I I walk that a lot and I know the bicycle traffic that you're talking about um but at the same time I'm really questioning whether we want to put a bike trail in the park um largely because we had said we did not want bicycles on these trails and I think that that would just encourage more bicycles in the park on other Trails um but I don't know if the reason why you had that discussion is because there have been accidents along that road I know people out there get aggravated with bicycles on all those roads when they're driving vehicles but at the same time it's a very uh uh low speed and a lot of those automobiles are traveling faster than they should for the safety of those roads have you kept that trail as close to the road as possible yes sir it it basically is I in order to get a reason reasonable slope you know I want to but I mean it for all intense purposes it in in a lot in some areas it's the same steepness as the the roadway so that was my maximum slope that I utilized but I

figured it's not going to matter because we've got the bikes at least off of the the roadway and the fact that it at both ends it connects back to the road it doesn't connect to any Park trails like well I get to the end well oh instead of going back on hen I'm going to turn right and go down this other Trail so I it connects to a roadway at either end and that's why we put the bike we put the bike rack right there so that somebody once they reach the top of the hill got to go to the bathroom at least there's a bathroom there for them they can hop back on their bikes and continue most people I would think now um are not going to take a road bikee that they're riding all the roads and bother to come in and ride around on a 5 foot wide Trail in the park I don't think that that's going to happen very often bikes I see on the road here are are not mountain bikes right so Mr chair it was an item I thought worth exploring but I also see it as a very expensive item that was worth exploring because obviously we're Paving the surface and the boulder retaining walls have an expense as well so if the ad hoc group feels it's not um a critical component of the overall master plan certainly it would not um create a problem for the Department of planning of parks if it was eliminated well I I kind of kicked that off in the first place because as I in fact I asked you whether we had a um a planned uh part of our trail system along henen Road and you agreed that we that we did and that

was a very sensible solution for um for the the problem of pedestrians Leslie walks it with um without fear but it's very steep there and um we have uh I'm not concerned with cyclist because there's a couple kinds of cyclists one kind I mean just Road cyclist and I've been a cyclist my entire life and um I have hammered up that hill literally countless times at a crawling speed there's that type of cyclist and then there's the type that are just kind of out enjoying the weather in the air and they're not going to go up that hill they're going to turn yeah so I don't think it's a huge safety issue um I saw it as a way to get another quarter mile of our trail system done but not at the EXP spent not at $150,000 worth of Trail work um that's not going to really help out so can we can we back off and just make it a a little bit wider soft surface Trail for pedestrians because I'm with Leslie I don't think we want bike you know cyclist in the park at all well as you can see at that point of intersection in the what would be the Northeast carner at Hen Road Mr kitel was also given the direction to provide that walking path so folks like Miss Tupper who use the road can go easily off the road and into the park on a dirt Trail so we've already kind of programmed that if you want another segment of soft Trail in lie of the bike path with the boulder retaining wall that certainly is an option so we don't need a retaining wall if we just have a a soft surface pth there right right wouldn't it wouldn't have to be soft surface it it just is it's going to be steep for uh it's not going to be Ada

accessible oh I gotta okay so I mean we can I've got it right now I've got it as a six foot wide chip and seal which is the same as the the parking lot which is basically Madam I mean you SE it and that's why that's what I've got it it can be set at that uh you know and just come on up and and pave that so if you can get a chip and seal you can't get asphalt paving done uh chip and seal they come in and they they put down the Rock and they roll it and then they come in with a a truck and spray the oil on it and then they spread the yeah it's processing it's it's not it's not a Paving machine I'd be for a trail there but I would not be for any kind of Paving there well let us take a look at that as well and we'll come back with an option or two yeah so I'd like to is erosion an issue there is that part of this I think I think part of the concern with Paving it uh is because it would erode otherwise and it' be a constant maintenance I don't know is there I haven't walked it so maybe you know is switchbacking possible I don't know but uh I'm fine with the trail there and in fact I would use it if it was there but not a paved one take good ma'am I'd like to move on to the next it and manage our time if we can um and that is the dam and and uh Causeway um as you can see Ken's kind of identified the dam and the rerouting of where the the drainage goes now to the Natural flow and that is the one item that we've not yet addressed and that was an assess an engineering assessment

of the current Dam and its uh stability so that is in the works but not complete okay I Joe I have had discussions on that okay called um well thank you Karen I'm sorry uh called Karen Frederick uh that we worked with over at Monarch sure um Levy uh talked to her quite extensively um after our discussion um she said yes um trees in dams are not a good idea at all um but they're there um it would be worse to come in and cut the trees down because then they're going to die and they're going to rot and and the Dam's in in Greater danger she said Ken what's Downstream because you're only talking about an acres worth of water and really there's nothing Downstream for quite a way that if indeed it failed it the likelihood she said of it catastrophically failing is not going to be the case and she said what she would recommend is that you leave it as is and if indeed uh the roots or uh whatever varmints are living around the roots uh actually do cause the dam to leak it will start to leak first and you can take care of that particular issue rather than coming in and trying to basically rebuild the whole Dam because it's you know it's not like a few trees on there it's basically wooded that you use pond liner EPDM or you can do bent night you could there are ways to seal up a dam at reasonable cost if it needs if it needs it and that

was kind of her recommendation wait till it breaks and then fix it well wait till it starts to leak yeah yeah and it looked like it was in pretty good shape but um you know as you know Phil probably is going to be digging a hole through there at some point yeah we need some work so is she miss Frederick's gonna prepare a report that was just a discussion that I had with her um I talked to her about uh you know if I we should spend the money at this point to get a geot te involved who's going to come in and tell us the same thing that trees are no no on on a dam um but uh that was her more or less off the Record recommendation I sound that's my and what we did do is we came in put a rip wrap we redid did the Overflow so that it actually goes back down to the creek where it belongs instead and then are calling for the the repair of that Gorge that it has carved yeah we were going to put a little bridge over that that's a great solution and it's um it's about as it's about as cheap as we can get away with without being cheap um you know I mean a Frugal solution yeah yeah sorry yeah that's great and um is there anything that we're contemplating doing with that tiny little pond that's Upstream uh because that's a that's a kind of that's the nicest little place there and we could put a bench and it could be just a a little uh little Retreat um permanently have water in it it's at least it's an ephemeral pond

that's worth having because the critters that are having the most trouble these days other than birds like this the the reptile salamanders and frogs and those kinds of things and that's they they that up that's that's where they that's you know it's a great habitat for them so and just so i' did explore that um I actually took the trail that goes around the large pond and uh my first go around I actually had it only on half on the western half of the pond once we came across the the creek I angled it on up and actually went across the dam on the smaller Pond and then it came on back down um but all the hiking that I've done a lot of times I like to go off Trail and just kind of explore and I was thinking well that that's a perfect kind of Hidden Gem that some people are going to find and that was kind of my thought on it so so to summarize we're not doing anything to remove the water feature we're just not making it easily accessible can we improve it a little bit I mean maybe if we we if we you know dug it down and put a little Clay on the on the uphill up slope side of the dam to make it retain water a little bit I mean I don't know it may retain water just I just think it's too Val it's too nice of a little spot to give up and if it's hidden that's fine people will people will find it as you suggest so well and again following Mr Scott's lead I think for a master planning process we're showing it retained undisturbed we can certainly look at how to enhance it we dig in more to the details as we move forward yeah just make a note of that you know certainly make a note of that okay so what's what's next on

this for the most part those were the highlights that I think miss ripo Mr kitel and I want wanted to identify the only thing that I think I failed to mention Mr kitel was potentially at that what I would call the southern tip of the trail uh around the large water feature I'd like him to explore extending that trail to the property line because again we've talked about there's an intervening property that is privately owned but the next property the second tier property is Rockwoods range or green Felder but it's publicly held so the idea would be is if at some point this property were to be developed subdivided we would want to get an easement for public purposes so we can make that connection between our facility and the county or state facility I appreciate that um I wondered I even bothered to look up who owned it because I wanted to know uh what the issues would be getting over to the Rockwoods range and I think that's a great idea um it's going to get real soft in in there isn't it yeah yes sir but I mean we can go further up on the hill it's one of the reasons I look at I looked at that uh as Mr vich had asked me and as you can see the slope coming down into that uh Creek is is as steep if not steeper than anything that we have on our prop M um and so that connection is going to if you're going to have any kind of reasonable slope on it uh is going to take you a long long long time to get up to the top of the hill so I didn't I'm sorry I didn't go all the way to Rockwood to see what the coule was out there but it's G to be

what you just described is I Believe Miss tupper's bushwhacker Trail so we've addressed that now yeah I really uh when I looked this plan over before the meeting I was really impressed uh by the whole plan I was yeah okay so we we've we've done nothing but shave PA we're we're get we're eliminating the expensive um expensive pretty soon we're gonna get somebody gonna pay us to put this partk I love the bank Barn Building and the concept of maybe we can use some Lumber may we can't so I like moving so I'm summing this up here um we're probably going to eliminate that one shade structure we're going to move the restrooms a little bit closer to the parking we're going to eliminate that long stretch uh downhill uh hard surface Trail and um modify the parking and uh those are the main investigate that southern connection yeah yeah all right that's great that's made progress Ken do you have any even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while yeah good job good job on this I I I I give you your props for for taking a good a good swing at it um so will we do you is it time to move on to the next uh well if I could just make one concluding statement so the intent would be is to have Mr kitel go back with the feedback she provided tonight and Revis the master plan one more time and then that would be the document I'd like to present to the W six residents as part of our public survey or public

input just for clarification was it the committee and everybody were were suggesting that we take the the restroom screen you know whether it's a screen around porta potties at the at this point or restroom and move it over to where the shade structure is is that in that general area is that am I understanding that correctly I have no strong preference but I think that was that's kind of the yeah that would be the approach and the other go ahead go ahead sorry I I would be for there the parking lot either one I don't think it's necessary to put it there so uh but maybe I don't have the same vision that someone else does about that I'm sorry I misunderstood that you said there are the parking lot and you're referring to where I previously said that up closer to the parking is that correct correct okay okay yes I I do think it's awfully handy to have one right where you park and you always know where it is yeah but that that's that's that's not a big deal to me in my opinion on a master plan I don't see any reason why you can't show two locations you know a location and then an optional location and okay call it good I mean it's a master plan all well well a building is also I mean if we can make the building attractive we can kill two birds with one stone by putting it there in that between Hen Road and the parking and then it provides a partial screen um or the you know on that on that Grass Island that Joe was talking about Landscaping we're so limited

there well the well is in right in area so and we can't put that drainfield under parking so um I just I'm I'm not 100% sure of the at this point the total amount of area that we need for that dra okay and it needs to be accessible to the bank bar replacement the the shelter so yeah and you can see the little the little kind of U v-shaped walkway that comes off uh you know where the existing where I've got the restroom shown that's what gets you down at a 5% slope down to the shelter okay yeah we tidy that up with um yeah okay so you got plenty of guidance I would say more than you wanted all right that's great so uh are we ready to move on well Mr chair and members of the group just a couple of things some of you were opposed to our process we looked at 66 roadside Park and for the most part the direction was put our thinking caps on and see what we can come up with and at the end of that process it was $1.5 million and immediately ended up out of the five-year Capital Improvements plan so I I appreciate Mr Kel's comments about why can't we have on a master plan more than than less um I think that's a good reason because we have to sell it to a lot of people and say it's a reasonable plan it'll achieve our go Golds but it'll do it at the least cost to our taxpayers so I would encourage us

to be a little bit maybe have a little sharper pencil for this master plan process given what we went through with the RO Route 66 roadside Park and also um in keeping with cost cutting I think uh appropriate shade structures or sales in MO of some of the gazebos would be um preference of the department they can be picked in natural colors Earth Tones and they can provide the same effect and I'd like to think they're less expensive than a stick built gazebo or one that's purchased from a catalog so just some thoughts could you say that again are you suggesting that sort of a shed structure that actually just maybe some you know that I what's the they look like sales that are strung between we've got the part yeah at Green Pines that Mr kitel did I'm not a big fan of gazebos I I don't think they're as functional as they need to be um Mr kitel and I probably differ on that but all we're really looking for based upon our site visit on January 4th is to have some place where people can get into the shade and I think that can be done simply and attractively so if the ones if you're talking about the ones in the fields those would be fine if they're down by the lake or something the leaves and the branches and the tree it be BMS they'd be unight they look like w Walgreens awnings yeah and I agree and that's but I'm saying I think the less we do in The Meadows in terms of structure yeah okay that yeah but I but I mean gazebos they're look great and people will love them and you only need space for a handful of

people and all that but once again since I'm a designer um I will put my two cent in and that's all it is um in my opinion um from walking out on the site it would be nice to have a focal point down at the end of the meadow and I thought some kind of rustic you can call it a shade structure if you want I just happen to call it a gazebo because I had a hexagonal there but can show you all sorts of rustic looking uh quote gazebos that are made of you know Cedar um Trunks and has some kind of uh you know natural shade on it even having a Virginia creeper or whatever growing up over the top of it it in my opinion it it needs something that's attractive down at that bar end so that when I'm standing there and I pull in I'm going that's kind of I'd like to walk down there and see what that is as opposed to uh and and if you're talking about fabric uh Sals or whatever that to me doesn't fit in with this I'm talking function over Aesthetics so function is important to me to get people out of the Sun and into shade as they're hiking on the trail when I look down at the meadow I see an area of mature Woodlands that is unrivaled anywhere else in St Louis County that I know of so I prefer the the natural setting but you are the ad hoc group and you can debate that and make the decision and we'll do our best to implement what I'd like to know is how we can kind of have our cake and eat it too I mean if we if it's as simple as saying an 8 by 10 8 by

12 8 by6 structure what does it cost if we do it you know you know a canvas awning thing gazebo and a shed roof Timbers structure Mr kitel is great one of the things that he brings to the table besides I think a real practical approach to park design is he does a good job of estimating and he's pretty conservative and we generally are pretty close so if we wanted to look at a few options like we've talked about maybe that's what we can do yeah I think we need to do that before we have the master plan done but I would would say that I'm not opposed to I mean I've seen all kinds of shade structures all of them look cool if people put the effort into you know um you know the thought into the design and the the sale yours sale structure I don't know what else to call it I think that would that would catch my eye and say hey walk down there maybe maybe I mean it might be um somebody might think of vendor setup of a food truck in the in the Meadow or something we don't know but there's a way to make it attractive and we want to do what exactly what Joe suggested get the Practical problem of shade along with your aesthetic question of make it attractive and make people want to go down there and get it at a minimum cost that's the goal so you guys can go for I have a challenge for you so so I did wonder when I saw the gazebos in the meadow areas um what does that say for the potential for doing a control burn of those areas to make them have more native plants and less of the stuff that comes off of

Farmland that Leslie it's not going to be a problem because you blow um going with big backpack blowers is the first thing you do and blow all the leaves and vegetation away from buildings like that you can wet it down and then the the fire will burn whatever the S suggested distance is from you know 15 ft from that structure or something like that and so you will it will burn around it and it will leave an unburned spot right there where Joe's sail is or you start you start your burn at the Gazebo there's 10 there's you have to have a you have to have a very specific burn detailed burn plan and you have to have six people there an ignition officer and a and a supervisor and a this and a and um it's just a pain but it's it they generally go off like clockwork without a hit so we're not going to burn down our brand new dise but you're right that's a great thing to be thinking about something well for me a meadow is beautiful without anything but everybody's got their own notion about all of that well Ada part of it yeah I understand understand and you sit there in the shade with your binoculars and watch birds all day long so but maybe we start with one of your benches so we have we you know we're we're trying to do this at a price point so yeah so if it's acceptable to the chair and the group members I'll jump to the next item which will be fairly quick y um the department as you know has has um taken direction from the group relative to the presentation of the park and a potential draft plan to our w six residents first um the group we met with um Debbie Ward of silver tablet marketing and asked her for a proposal to prepare that survey a short

survey highlighting the key components of our master plan in its draft form I do not have it yet and so it I think work out okay meaning we've given Mr kitel a lot of Potter to feed on and we'll have an updated plan and I anticipate having um that proposal for your consideration at the March meeting so a bit of a delay but we'll have a better plan based upon all of your input tonight and we'll have a proposal for getting our W 6 residents opinions about what we're thinking for this particular property so my apologies we met almost shortly after our last meeting she's very busy and I have her also working on a proposal for a Master Plan update so um I've got her going a lot of different directions that's all I have on that tonight so the next meeting we'll have we should have a draft survey y oh yes I would like to think that we'll have a set of questions probably more than you want to send to the W six residents but I would anticipate and request of you to kind of go through them and pick the pick the diamonds out of the rough and that's the ones we'll use when you get a draft can you just go ahead and send us def to the committee whenever you have it and we can kind of you know kick it around offline or whatever and maybe we can just steal the mar chunk excellent suggestion and that's what we'll anticipate doing do we have an approximate uh date to meet with the w six people well the intent was to do this more rically this first one certainly we could as part of that offer an open house so that if people don't want to necessarily do it off their computer laptop

smartphone um tablet we can offer it here we're open to any your suggestions the idea was is to try to reach as many people as possible and with the success of our um our online effort with Village Green where we had over a thousand particip I'd like to that's where I I thought we should start but we can do an open house and just could be an hour hour and a half at a convenient date and time for everyone bring people here and show them the plan and give them the survey and talk with them that's fine too got can have at the Scott house historic stru I think we know somebody that lives there you provide the food is the only way to contact residents of uh board 6 by mail that you I mean you can contact them by the website but but to where get direct contact with them is by mail you can't you don't have their email or anything like that and so the idea was if we do a postcard with the information about where to find the survey um in the past it was always just a link to the website we'll do a QR code they'll take them directly to the survey now and so yeah it would be a a direct mailing to every household in ward 6 with information about the website QR code and the information associated with that and then if you all want to do an open house you open house and date have think we have to do at some point in this process digging right well the GR that K applied for to help offset the cost of our Master planning process requires two public meetings um as I

recall okay these yeah the thought was is to do the this is just the Department's thought so you all are the ones that tell us what you want the first thought was to do the draft plan through this electronic process or this using our um using our best tools relative to the internet Etc and then doing the open house when we have the D the draft plan let's say at 90% or something sounds good well we have our assignments K tell more than anyone but um if there are any other questions regarding the survey but we'll get you the questions the groupings of questions as soon as we can so we'll be ready to discuss them at our March meeting do you have anything to add no I'll just ask the question of um since you're talking cost here do you already have a ballpark on what what was presented tonight where Mr kitel is shaking his head no okay do have the budget was like a million dollars the whole subvention we have approximately $1 million in one of our future years as part of our fiveyear plan obviously if we can spend less and get the same bang that's what we'll do um I like that we have our eye toward that cost component because if we manage cost the likelihood of the park being

developed is much much greater than not y we need to keep an eye on that I'm sorry but my connection cut out some through some of that discussion but I'll I'll contact you directly to get more information Jan you got good D anything else I am satisfied and very impressed yeah I'm I'm I'm so pleased with this it's just you know maybe it's because I'm close to the issue but um I just think it's it's great and can I can't say enough about your your work here so this is very good um exactly right yeah so couldn't be better okay so the next meeting date is Tuesday March 4th also at 6: p.m. will we be back in the in will we be back I loved meeting at Pond but evidently it was unworkable for some reason we had to accommodate Leslie but I don't think we have to do that every I'll be there I can be wherever so do you have a preference for this building or me no no no I'm talking to Joe now sorry yeah so we will say tentatively that the meeting on March 4th will be at Old on Schoolhouse yes and um we'll take her

from there and we we're going to make an effort to um figure out how to get Zoom operational over there so maybe we have that as an option as well in the future well I've talked to Mr Lee our city administrator and he's aware of trying to do something down there to make us um make the facility more usable on a more regular basis sure he's got nothing else to do so hopefully um all right this was wonderful um our um any other any other questions no okay uh I um I need a motion to adjourn I'll move we adjourn Steve okay we've only got two options here so um uh all in favor I I oh any ofos any exensions okay we are adjourned thank you very much guys it was great