Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

It is 6 o'clock and I am calling the meeting to order of the planning commission on March 18, 2026. Sherry, could we have the roll call? Chair Murphy here. Vice Chair Chesley here. Commissioner Rice Schmidt here. Commissioner Stewart here. Thank you. Brad, would you lead us in the roll call in the pledge of allegiance, please?

I pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty andice for all. Thank you. Uh we have Lucas online tonight and Lucas uh are there any changes to the agenda? No changes to the agenda tonight.

Thank you. We have public communications next, which is time set aside during the planning commission meeting for members of the public to address the planning commission on items of city business other than the regularly scheduled items. Matters may at this time may be briefly discussed but will generally be referred to staff and placed on a subsequent agenda under state law other than for emergency items. No action on them can be taken at this time. So I am opening public communications and my first card is from Craig Walker.

Okay. City Hall master plan. Okay. Is there anyone online? No. No. Okay. Then I am closing public communications. We will move to the consent calendar and the minutes of the regular meeting of the planning commission March 4. Are there any corrections to the minutes? Hearing none, could I have a motion? Make a motion to pass the minutes as written.

I second. Thank you. Could we have a roll call? Murphy, I'm sorry. Murphy, yes. Chesley, yes. Ray Smith, yes. Stewart, yes. Okay. Uh, next we have disclosure of site visits and exparte contacts. Would you start, please, Brad? Uh, none on my none. Jonathan, I visited the site. No exparte contacts. I had no exparte contacts and I visited the campus, the city hall campus.

The same here. I had no exparte contacts, but I did visit the city hall complex. Okay, moving on. The next item is a design review permit and minor conditional use permit denial resolution. Uh at this time I believe we have one recusal. Yes. Yes. I would recuse myself from this issue. Okay. Could we have the report on this please? Yes. Um Director Cybert will be giving the report. Thank you.

Thanks chair. Uh thanks thanks Mara. So this item that you have before you is is a culmination of the conversation that happened um at the last meeting. Um at that point we had discussed coming back with a a proper resolution that is before this body that encompasses the the denial that the commission had um had acted on two weeks ago. So that denial resolution is before you for discussion. Um I see it as a public hearing item. So you will need to open it up for comment from the community um to do go through the standard um public hearing process. So ask questions um open it up for public uh communication and then close it and then discuss and then um act on the resolution itself.

Okay. Thank you. Um we will open it to the public at this time. And I have a card from Craig Walker. Good evening. Craig Walker. Um I live in Marramonte. Um I'm a member of the HPC, but I'm speaking as an individual. And um I I really want to address the uh whole issue of the freezer. I wasn't quite sure how all that wound up. I in the discussion because it got kind of mixed up with the with the expansion of the seating area. But I really want to urge the planning commission to do whatever it can do to get that relocated because for a number of reasons that I've expressed in several letters and communications with the commission, I think it's a big mistake to have that out on the plaza and I think it uh uh needs to find a new home either inside the building or uh maybe at a different location. And my hope would be that the um the back of the building which I call the radic building because that's who built it u back in 1906. So 20 years and 12 years ago that building was constructed and it's uh back facade has uh is an important part of the uh the plaza area. uh the whole thing has been covered by a huge electrical panel and and blocked by fencing and and I think it's really important that that get repaired and not only the back facade but also the part of the plaza that the bricks were pulled up that everything get put back the way it was. And there's even now been a change up on the roof line with big duck work coming out of the top of it so that the roof line

looks different. So anyway, I think the sooner we can get that all repaired, the better. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. Is there anyone online wishing to address this issue? No. Thank you. Okay. Um, do we have any more from staff on this at this time?

I think at this point we're just looking for action. You've already taken um action on this item two weeks ago. This is this resolution that you're seeing here in terms of the denial in in two different areas deficient within the findings. um is basically taking the information that was provided at that meeting, the action that was taken and then kind of putting it into a written format for um Lucas to solidify what had what had happened two weeks ago. Is the refrigerator on or off the table for right now? It's off the table.

Okay. So, we are being asked to confirm our denial from two weeks ago. Do you have questions or comments? Then I would entertain a motion on this DRP.

I uh recommend that the planning commission adopt or I make a motion that the planning commission adopt resolution which is attached attachment A. um and associated findings confirming denial of the proposed modifications to the outdoor dining area located at 242 East Ohigh Avenue. A second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Could we have the vote, please? Murphy. Yes. Chesley, yes.

Rice Schmidt, yes. Okay, we are now moving on to item two or item three actually which is a concept review CR25-00002 which is a concept review of city hall campus master plan for a landscaping project on the property of the historic landmark number 23 Smith Hobson House. Could we have the report, please?

Yes. Thank you. Good to see you all. Good to be here. Um I'm going to repeat what you said if I don't if you don't mind. Um this is a request for a concept review. It's for the city hall master campus or excuse me, master plan um for landscaping project on the city hall property, which is yes, uh historic landmark number 23, the Smith Hobson Smith Hobson House. It's located at 401 South Ventura um street. and the planning commission tonight is to provide the applicant with um comments and feedback on the proposed concept plan. No dis um no decisions will be made this evening. So for a little bit of background, the Historic Preservation Commission reviewed this concept plan and provided comments on November 13, 2025. comments were positive and included a desire that the entire property be conveyed as historic and it was emphasized that all elements should be ma maintained or rebuilt. Um I have a brief description of the project details and see Um, I have a brief description, a excuse me, description. Um, however, once I'm once I'm finished, we have the applicant here to give um a better better description than I or a deeper one and also here to answer um to answer questions. So, the campus includes approximately 8 acres of open space. In 2022, the Ohigh Green Coalition began developing this master plan and the land uh currently consists of a former ecological demonstration area and um a restored creekide n natural habitat and a long neglected or long

neglected open spaces. I'm going through some photos here um of the site. So the plan specifically excludes elements and structures that are permanent and that are included in the historic landmark. The elements requested for feedback are proposed to be to either remain be modified, relocated or removed. Um and the list is is in your staff report. However, I'll note them here. So to be removed, I believe is the shed on the south side of Kent Hall. to remain without improvements is the oak tree house. There's a walkway, fencing, memorial garden, signage, and a wood sign. Um for removal is the uh wedding arbor. Recommended for removal also is concrete miniature golf and pond. For resurfacing or placing would be the bad mitten court. There's a wood arbor recommended to be uh the wood would be recommended for repurposing if possible. Um there are existing foot paths to remain but there's a recommendation to have them widened and to um be ADA um meet ADA requirements. There's a planter on the west side of city hall at um the parking lot ingress egress and that would remain um and potentially be redesigned and a carriage house uh request has been made to the city manager for an analysis a structural analysis for this building. Um see if there continued photos. Um 85% of the trees on site are found to be native. There are 3 129 native trees. Other than oaks, there are willows, holly leaf,

cherry, elderberry, and California bay laurel trees that are also um that are also native. And I'd like to turn the rest over to Kathy Nolan, who is a representative for the project. Um, and if you have questions for me, of course, you can ask them, but I would like to turn this over to Kathy. Good evening, Kathy.

Hi. Uh, Commissioner Murphy, fellow Commissioners and staff, thank you for having me here tonight. Once again, Kathy Nolan. I'm representing the Ohio Valley Green Coalition. And, um, I guess just a quick overview. I don't want to duplicate or replicate what um, Mora had just shared, but uh, yeah, we the Greek Coalition received a community service grant in 2022 2023 where we did the community engagement portion of this master plan project. And basically we went out to the community and did a series of workshops, online surveys and site tours and gathered information and basically asked you know what what would you want? Uh what do we need here? What would you like to do here? And I'm just generalizing but those were you know the gist of it. And basically what came back to us in that first um year was um a nature-based park, um a place for um education and information, a place for learning and a place for um honor and respecting the native habitat. The Middle Stewart Creek Canyon Restoration Project happens to be on that parcel as well. Um and then of course to you know take a look at the existing landmarked um items that were part of the original estate which more actually listed some of them. Some of them are newer but um and not as protected so to speak. So we gathered all that information and then we came back to the city in 2024 and we ended up getting a contract at the end of 2024 to actually um do further work and complete the master plan. And that work included um thorough site analysis. So you know we were looking at traffic, you know, plant species, um what had been here, the past history and what have you. And I wanted to say, by the way, I have all that information posted on the Ohigh

Valley Green Coalition U website. Um it would be um listed under the October 25th um open house. So, there's a lot more background information than you will be seeing tonight, but if you're interested, um, and of course I'd be happy to talk with you later, but you could go there. Um, so basically, we did get the contract the end of, um, 2024 with and it will be completed May 31st of this year, 2026. So, a couple months to go. Um for this year what we did was we did further um stakeholder engagement coming to the commissions with staff more community input once again going out and doing a thorough site analysis and then putting all that information um and coming together what you're seeing tonight is a conceptual plan which is the plan before the master plan. So, it's very similar to what the final product will be, but it's a progress plan. And um what I can do is if you want I could kind of walk you through it. Unfortunately, I can't use a pointer I believe on that screen. And or can we or do you have one?

I have the cursor moving around. Oh, a cursor. Okay. And I can see the numbers. Okay. And you can see the numbers. for me. I'm going you can kind of read them and I have really good distance but I don't have shorts so the my glasses aren't going to work but I'll do my best but um I could look that way. Thank you. That was easy enough. I can also go through them and read them if you'd like. It's Yeah. Um actually, you know what? That might be fine if you wanted to do that. Just read through the legend, you know, quickly and then I'll kind of point out after that where they're located and kind of why. So, um, when you say go through the legend, you'd like me to go through the fact that like for instance, number one is a flexible, um, a flex play space.

Yeah. And actually, you know what? I could read if I turn my head if you prefer. No, I don't mind doing that at all. Okay. Yeah. I think just read down the red the red numbers. Okay. So, and then I'll go into more information. Okay. So, flex play spaces in this area. Um, we have an amphitheater. And you know what? Um, it might be good if you did some of this later because Oh, we also, you're right because the numbers are all over the place. Okay. So, there are flex play spaces, amphitheater, event lawn, existing formal gardens,

flex area, picnic, existing bad mitten court, rain gardens, demonstration gardens, flex area, oak tree seating area, proposed garden house, option A, view terrace, new shed, there are two locations, hedge screening, existing compost area, bike rack, 88 path, 6 feet wide, an entry node, a bio swell, entry node and maintenance path for vehicles, parking incorporated or sorry, parking including and uh ADA spaces, bench seat, restroom, orchard with picnic tables, community garden beds, picnic table, restoration signage, viewpoint with bench, pollinator gardens, shaded area, creek crossing, restoration trail, and a new crosswalk.

Okay, good. And I am able to like locate these when you talk about them if you'd like.

Okay, good. So, so just a little background. So, you know, how did we arrive at all of this? Once again, back to the input, the community engagement and stakeholder engagement and um I had mentioned earlier, you know, a nature-based park um but basically based on an education, a learn a place to learn and have workshops and what have you. um and respecting the natural environment. So what we generally looked at was um of course we had the existing restoration area along Middle Stewart Creek and um so what we came up with was for our demonstration garden. There was an existing demonstration garden that was put in I think it was 93. I actually worked on that. I'm trying to remember the exact year but I think it was 93 94 but it's in it's not in the best shape. It needs to be redone. So where she's got the cursor is generally that area, but what we would be doing there is featuring California native plants and firescape landscaping. Um so predominantly we would be using native plants, but um in the area of behind city hall, which I'd call kind of the um historic garden area, pretty much leaving all that the plant material there unless it's something that would be invasive or if we needed to fill in a little bit, but predominantly staying there. Um and then what we have done is created a series of what we call flex spaces where you could have workshops, they could be picnic areas, um etc. And then we do have um I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to start on Ventura Street which would and down at the um souththeast corner right there and I'm going to start there and I'm just going to do a little walkthrough tour just I think that'll help explain it a little bit better. Um, you'll see some parking stalls there. We have more than we're actually going to put, but we're proposing to put some ADA parking

there. There's presently a compost area um on the actually it would be the south side of the property line. I think it's number 14 possibly or 13, one of those two right in there. Maybe it's 16. I'm sorry about the uh me not being able to read. Well, I I guess I could turn my head again. Um, I'll talk to the screen. Um, but anyway, what we're looking at doing is Oh, why don't I point? Do you guys mind if I point? I think that's probably better. And I might be able to reach the top. Basically, here's the parking. And then here, this would be one of the main entry. So, you could actually drive in a small vehicle. Oh, can you hear me?

Okay, then I'll stay back here. This is that removable.

No, that's okay. That's all right. I'll I'll kind of point and hopefully it'll be good. Um, so anyway, so um it would be a major entry not access. So you could actually pull in a small vehicle there. Reason being right now the the public works department drops off waste for the uh compost area which we're proposing to remain. And then also if you were going to do an event within the space, if you wanted to bring in tables and chairs or catering or what have you or even for maintenance, you could actually drive into a certain portion. And then what we're doing is we're proposing um like an ADA or an accessible pathway pretty much from like Ventura Street and then taking it all the way up to the carriage house which is up at the top left kind of number one. uh carriage houses labeled up there so that basically you know somebody could actually come in and access the whole site for classes or just you know for touring or what have you. Um, also back over to that entry area, there's a number 11 and 12. We're actually proposing a new building on the site. Um, approximately has to be determined, but about 1,200 square feet, which it's kind of the size of Kent Hall, um, just to give you a reference. And that would be a place to have lectures, workshops, labs, films. Community members could meet there. it could be rented out for special events. Um we're also proposing a small about 300 square foot commercial kitchen. That was one of the requests we reoccurring in our um engagement questionnaire. Um and possibly even um a restroom. Um and then number 12 is kind of a viewing terrace or a terrace where you could actually have an event or work out and do outside. And then we'd also be encompassing the area right below that.

Um, so we think that's a real asset. I also wanted to mention we did a a survey where we did two what I would call schematic layouts for different elements and um we had that number 11 building closer to the pickle ball court and then the one you're seeing tonight and the one where you're seeing it tonight actually um scored the most points probably because it's a little bit quieter. pickle ball is not happening all the time, but when it is, there's a little bit noise. And um we think that was a better choice. And then um walking along the path, you go right into the middle. There's number 24 and 25. That is a community garden. So a small orchard and beds um growing beds. And whether or not it would be um you know, people would pay um to rent a space or not, we haven't that's to be determined. But we are proposing to have that there. Number 20. Whoops. If you go back um Oh, yeah. You're showing the kitchen. Uh okay. Number 23, which is right next to that orchard area. It's a proposed public restroom. There is no public restroom on the site outside. So, you know, considering the fact that we have pickle ball and then um hopefully all this will happen. Uh there'll be many more users. It would be a smart decision to have a restroom there. And then um there's a path that heads towards the west. We would have like uh for instance a pollinator gardens there. Um there's some fabulous views. Number 28 shows some key points that we or places where there would be benches for viewing. And then as you wrap up and head up to the um upper left where the carriage house is, we're proposing that that building become um uh a nature museum for children and a flex workspace. But once again, it um

would need to be um looked at by a structural engineer to make sure that it's sound structurally and if we needed to do anything, what is it? You know, is it doable? But so far we've gotten a you know a nod of approval from staff and from city council and the uh HPC that potentially that could happen. And then that would be also a kind of a children's garden uh workspace. There's number two is a small little amphitheater. Don't think big. It's very small and mostly for kids or adults could use it too, but for storytelling um you know acoustic guitar playing or something, but um what I would call more passive use and then I think what I'm going to do next is I wanted to say the parking lot that is where our Ohigh tent town is presently located would remain. So, we'd have parking. And then if you cut all the way across to city hall, um number 18, um there is a gravel present uh gravel driveway there that goes under the portico. We're proposing to to leave it, but that would be also another entry node um to get into the space. And then as you come down towards the pickle ball court, we're hoping, we started looking at the grades that we may be able to make that accessible. So it would be, you know, wheel wheelchair um accessible. And then pretty much the gardens that are there with there's a small pond and plantings that were part of the original estate would remain. Um there is a structure there, a pergola um that's existing, but it's it's rotted in a lot of um places. So, we're hoping that we have we'd have to look at it further. Um but if we could reuse the wood and rebuild a structure there is no go ahead.

It's actually do you know where the children's garden is? There's a boxwood lined garden. It's basically it's to right to the west of the of the pickle ball court. Um, yeah, it's hard to see it, but it's kind of between little between Kent Hall, little house, and the pickle ball court. Pretty much center. It's never really been used. That's the wood arbor you're talking about? Yes. Okay. Yeah.

What What about the wedding arbor? Is that the arched arbor? What is that? Where is that one? So, basically right now if you go to um there's an exist existing deck right outside of Kent Hall and I'm just going to point it's it's right in there and it's a white um uh you know wood arbor painted white and with a u a climbing rose on it and it was built later at a later date. wasn't part of the original estate, but it's got rot as well and it's kind of in an odd location. So, we're proposing to take it to remove it. But what we are doing is creating a lot of different areas where potentially if you wanted to have a wedding because city hall actually has and does conduct weddings occasionally, you could or some other event. So, um so there's that. Let me see. Um as I'm going on my tour. All right. So, back up by city hall. I also wanted to say right on the corner on Ventura and Santa Ana, so across from the police station, there's a um a lawn area with a big Canary Island date palm existing and with a little bit of modification that could actually be a little small event area, put it to good use. So, we're not It's got a Bermuda grass lawn, which normally I would say, uh, get rid of it or I wouldn't plant one, but because it's there, it's low water use, and with, like I said, minor modifications, it could be a really nice entry node and um potential use area. And then I wanted to um actually now go down to the restoration area which happens to be um this excuse me this whole that whole area.

And as I mentioned earlier, the um the city uh partnered with PAX environmental, the crew, I think the land conservancy provided some of the plant material, but um that creek area was restored and basically they took out um in predominantly invasive species, eucalyptus and palms. And um originally it was kind of a fire hazard. A fire actually did start there right after the Thomas fire during that period. Um, but they were removed and the water was not running there. And the water's running there now. I was there in the heat of August this last summer and it's running. The plants that they've planted which were very small cutings and what have you are full grown mature wildlife has come back this year. I know um the December bird count was taken there and they've got more birds than they've had in the past. So it's quite successful. And so what we're proposing is to actually expand the restoration area and to put a bridge in um and then actually maximize on the area that's across the creek and up the hill. So this area I keep forgetting you won't hear me. But a bridge there. Yeah. um that's a little more complicated because you have to go through a lot of agencies. Um I've talked to staff about that. Um so there's there is general interest in doing it. Um so we we've got it on the plan. And then I also wanted to mention up on the hill, I I'm calling it the hill, but the sloped area, there's actually fabulous views from up there. And there's an endangered um or excuse me an endemic grass species that they've really only found there within the ohigh area. So it's something that we want to um protect probably cordon off but

people could come you know take a look at it and then of course adds um some trail systems throughout that upper area and um other portions of the park. I had earlier mentioned a big emphasis was on education and we're proposing um a signage system soformational um in key areas you know for the um pro even a historical one something about you know the compost area the demonstration garden of course the um the edible area and then of course the um the restoration area and then directional signage. Um, let me see what else am I I'm sure I'm missing something else, but generally speaking, um, I think I've I've walked through Oh, one other thing that I forgot. I wanted to say that there's very good drainage on the site. Everything drains down to the creek, but there's also an opportunity to to slow the water down when it does rain. And in our site analysis, we looked at the back of city hall, um the east side of Kent House and Little House, um possibly even at the Oak Treehouse and maybe even off the carriage house where you have roof runoff. And if you go there in the winter, it's boggy and there's a little bit of erosion. It's nothing major, but it's an opportunity to slow the water down with a bioail or a rain garden. and then once again have signage that explains like what it is and why we're doing it and what the plant material is that we would be doing. And so eventually that water, you know, it goes into a a depression so to speak, infiltrates back into the soil and yes, it eventually would probably go back down to the creek, but it helps reduce um uh irrigation water because the now the ground is, you know, wetter uh because we've slowed it down and captured it. So, those are probably um just double checking. I would say the highlights of

what we're proposing and then um I'm would you mind forwarding the uh Yeah. So, I I also wanted to say this is the slide or PowerPoint that I showed to city council last week. Um and these are just what I would call um photo imagery. So images of kind of what we're proposing. Not that it would look exactly like this. But the structure that I talked about, we've been affectionately calling the garden house because everything else we have the oak tree house and little house and what have you already on the property. But we are looking at um and it would be to code but doing some alternative um construction that you don't typically see. uh for instance straw bale and like with a cobb exterior finish you know the solar orientation probably solar panels but um and it would also be an opportunity to do kind of what I would call like a barn raising of course you'd have a general contractor you'd have your plans approved by building and safety but it's an opportunity for people to come and learn about oh there's other ways of construction um so those are just some samples up there um on the bottom there's we just have died on the terrace so if there wasn't event outside of the garden house on one of those terraces, something like that, and then a small community kitchen. And then in that garden house, we would put creative events because there's so many different things that you could use the um the building for. And then um here's some of the existing site structures that we talked about and and imagery. So the existing carriage house is up on the upper left. the existing arbor or I was calling it a pergola interchangeably um is shown in the top middle and then the restroom that's just a a sample of what the restroom could look like. Of course,

we're going to want to um complement the city hall architecture uh materials, colors, textures, and what have you in any structure that we would be doing. The bottom left is actually one of the bridges that the land consery put in over at the meadows, but we we're just showing it for um once again imagery or possibilities. And then on the bottom right parking bio, I talked about a um bioail collecting water off of Ventura Avenue. And um let's see what else we have. Next, please. Um some more imagery. uh demonstration gardens with signage. There could be popup events. There's another good example of possible signage on the upper right. Um there's an opportunity, this is something I didn't mention before. Um we did a study. Well, we let me step back. We actually had a local arborist um donated um an assessment of all the trees on the site. So, if you go out there, you'll see a tree tag with a number on the trees and he evaluated them and some of them um a lot of them are natives. You read off the the numbers earlier um but a lot of them are invasive species. A lot of different eucalyptus for instance. And we're proposing um and we have a plan and I can refer you again to where that would be on our website if you'd like to look at that. But to repurpose any trees that we do take out and the reason we want to take out a lot of the invasives is well number one that was the goal of the restoration project. So if you leave not you know invasive species close by you're just reintroducing a seed base that would start growing and you'd be in constant maintenance issue. So, we are proposing to take out some of the eucalyptus. There are some oaks. Um,

three of them unfortunately had to be taken out recently. Um, we're not sure what the um exact cause was yet. We're um hopefully be looking into that. Um, but that we would repurpose or reuse any of the trees that we have to take out to the best that we can. So, for instance, some of the eucalyptus, which is a very hard wood, could be used on the interior of the building. And structurally, um, a lot of the lumber, if you look in the middle, it says nature play logs and mulch. Um, we're hoping to have a lot of, um, what I would call nature-based play areas for children. So, we're not putting in a a swing set or, you know, play equipment. These are areas where you can climb on rocks, hop on, hop on logs, sit something like this casually, uh, play with timbers and build something, dig for bugs, and smell the roses. No, no, no, roses, excuse me. Smell the pollinator pollinating plants. Um, so there's that. And of course, mulch is a logical one. We're also proposing in the orchard area to do um a process called huggal culture. And that is where you actually bury wood like scrap wood that would be you know from trees that you took down and then um you bury it with uh soil but what happens um and I'm just going and I'm giving you the encapsulated version of this. It basically starts rotting damage starts adding organic matter into the soil and it actually helps to capture um storm water runoff too. So, it's a really um a way to repurpose something but build the soil as well and increase the water retention. So, there's that. And then there's also what I would call, you know, primitive um site furnishings like bench seating. So, that's in the works as well. And then, um let me see what else. Oh, this is just a

timeline that we shared with city council. This is just um projected. It's not actual but basically um you can see on the upper left we had our community and stakeholder engagement and the master plan. Um and the May 2026 we are hoping to get council approval be completed but then we would be getting into looking at um engineered reports the tree removal further design development RFPs for consultants and then ideally in January 27 you know could start construction documents RFP for contractors and project management and then potentially June 2027 construction starts. Now, of course, we need to have approval and funding. The two big two big things, but I just wanted to share that with you as well. And I think we have one last slide. Yeah. And this just basically shows a little more detail about what the next steps would be after the master um plan phase. Um I think that was maybe in your packet. I'm not sure, but um I don't know if it's pretty self-explanatory. And then um I guess after this I'm happy to answer any questions.

Do we need to take public comment before or shall we do questions of Kathy and then public comment? So you would take public comments um now and then do questions. Okay. Okay. I have one card and that would be Craig Walker. Good evening.

My name is Craig Walker. I'm a member of the HPC, but I'm here speaking on my own behalf and uh I just want to say that I really appreciate everything that Kathy and the Green Coalition are doing. I think they've got a lot of great ideas and I think a lot of those ideas will be real assets to the community and to the location. However, uh the property also is a city of Ohio landmark and as such uh it is historic. When it was landmarked, the city debated whether just to landmark the building here or to landmark the whole property because it was a estate. And they did decide to landmark the whole property. And just because a particular item on the property isn't called out in the landmarking agreement, you'll notice it calls out some but not others. doesn't mean that those things aren't historic, excuse me, historic or or can just be uh demolished or moved or eliminated at will. They're still considered to be historic and have to be reviewed. And in fact, because it's a landmark, the HPC will have to uh review it for a work permit and issue a work permit. And also it should be reviewed under SQA because uh SQUA wants to make sure that they re we review everything that might affect the environment and historic buildings are considered part of the part of the environment. So um u the but when you do the review it doesn't mean that you can't decide to eliminate something if it's found to be insignificant or not really that impactful. that can be eliminated, but it it does need to go through that review. So, it kind of puts us in the position of supporting the project. But then, we've had several tours, we've had

uh visits, and often times we hear, well, we might that rose trellis, we might demolish it, we might move it, we might, you know, and we don't know what's going to go there when when we do that, but um but we're not really certain. Well, for us that's very hard to make a decision around that. We really need a project. This is what we're going to do and then we can look at it, decide if it's appropriate, and then make a decision on it. And I just want to remind this commission, I don't know how many of you were here when the city did its Libby Park master plan. And it was quite quite an interesting process because the person the company that did that master plan was determined to get rid of the jail. They said the jail represented a bad view of Ohio history. It was negative and it should be gone. And after a council meeting where several local residents who were prominent individuals spoke about the evening they spent in the jail and uh a little bit about why they thought it was important in Ohigh's history. The council reversed that and not only reversed uh eliminating the jail, but they made it a landmark. And today I have to tell you that's one of Ohhigh's most beloved landmarks. every Ohigh day, kids line up and they all want to hear the stories of the jail and what went on with the jail. And so it's really proved to be uh to be beneficial. So I think we really need to give it some real thought and study before we take these things that are left from a hundred years ago by the Smith Hopson family that are historic. They're from that period. The Smith Hopson family used a lot of these items for their own life. They represent a different time in Ohigh's history. These include the wall

along Ventura Street that has the little seats for the bus stop. I guess I'm not really sure what they've finally decided, but at one point that seemed to be up for for a possible removal. Uh the garden area where the memorial garden is located, that's part of the original house. uh the structures around the pickle ball courts that are done in uh mission revival architecture were all built. The whole renovation of this building was done by Robert Winfield who built the arcade and the post office and the pergola. And so u we'd hate to see those go without a a review. that trellis. I know that it doesn't look that great, but uh one of our commissioners went and looked at it and said it could very easily be restored and um could carry uh vines of roses and it just looked beautiful. I gave you a picture of that in a packet I sent to you about it. The carriage house, the bad mitten court. I mean, when you think about it, the pickle ball people have revitalized the original tennis court and have made it active. And why couldn't that be done with a bad mitten court? Have it be renovated and therefore picnicers to come and use. There's a pond and even that miniature golf hole. I took a picture of it and put it into AI and said, "Can you restore this?" And it came out looked beautiful. So I know that it can be done if if we wanted to. So uh most of the areas that we're really concerned about or I am um haven't really been given a definite name when you look at the numbers. They're like bad mitten court, their flex area, picnic area, their formal gardens. There's nothing that's planned for that area that couldn't

benefit from having some historic items from the uh era there for people to see and to even use. Um so anyway, I hope that you'll keep that in mind before you approve any changes that might impact the historic nature of the building. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. Is there anyone online wishing to speak? No. Okay. In that case, we will close the public comment period and turn it over to the commission for questions and comments. Anyone care to start?

I do. Okay. Um I was just wondering if staff was aware of the Libby Park master plan because um it's dated 1993 and it includes the city hall property in it. There is um we we are aware and as a matter of fact the um PowerPoint that I was referring to earlier has a whole section on um past history including the Libby Park master plan from 1993. And I know there was one in 1973. And our final master plan document, remember this is a progress uh presentation tonight concept will be including um all those documents um as reference or um appendix material.

Okay. Because I I think our staff report should have referenced this document um because it we have a master plan in place that includes city hall. Um unless and I I haven't been around for a long time. Um maybe it was repealed. I don't think so. I don't know. It's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. Um so anyway, that I mean that's more of a process thing that some analysis should have been done based on the existing master plan at hand. I think Yeah, we actually did. But yeah,

it's well I was looking through all the recommendations of the 1993 master plan and it looks like everything is copacetic. You know, it's everything is in alignment. I believe um but I I think we can't forget that we have existing documents already um and we should reference them so we all know um so I just I actually just thought of this about an hour before um the meeting and I thought we already have a master plan. Um so anyway, I'm just pointing that out. And the other thing is I agree with all of Craig's comments. I think it does need to go to historic preservation 100%. um needs to go there. And I really um I when I travel to different places, different cities, I always I gravitate toward the historical tours, you know. So I will go to any, you know, historic mansion or, you know, I I just gravitate to the um historic preservation aspects of towns. And one of the things I really like in um a building that has been repurposed is the sense of what it was originally. And I think part of city hall complex of being an estate, which it really was, it the the setting matters to the historic um essence of this building. So the back so looking out the back if you look out the windows from the city manager's office or you know that that was a formal garden and it's in such bad condition right now it makes me sad but I I think that if we can restore those those items that made this an estate at the time like the bad mitten court or the pergola or anything that set this you know set the tone you know made the setting of this place as an estate, somebody's home, this is where they recreated, and this is what they

looked out to. I I think we should preserve all that in addition to all this great stuff that you're proposing. But I would make that more of a a priority is, you know, showing, you know, what this place um look like with the with formal um area that you could rent out for weddings. Correct. Um the even the arbor can be a beautiful seating area for a wedding, for any kind of event. So I I I'm with Craig, I I actually think we should try to keep those things,

right? The only reason, well actually we did this plan, the one that you just saw quite a few months ago and um we have since looked at can we, you know, rebuild it or re do what we can to rehabilitate the um the arbor that you're referring to. Um and then the same thing with the gardens. Um so basically our project we we're not doing anything at the front of city hall city hall at all. pretty much from the back. Um, and then south. Um, but yeah, the bad mitten court, I probably skipped it. I should have mentioned it when we were up on the concept plan, but yeah, we the concrete that's there right now is cracked and it's not really safe. So, we are proposing to either replace it with concrete or it could be like stabilized decomposed granite because and then it becomes um, you know, and every all the stonework and the steps, everything's remaining, the pond is remaining. Um but um yeah, the court would still be there.

Okay. Well, that that's my my input is to keep all those um historic elements as part of this estate and add all the other wonderful 33 items that you have.

Um as a matter of fact, I I it might have been Brian Akens who said this, but um he mentioned to me that um he's our liaison with uh HPC commission. um that the Smith Hopson family would entertain and they would hang Japanese lanterns in that arbor and you invite the community in and they'd have parties. And so we envision to the best that we can creating that same environment where the community is invited in and events can happen and it becomes a real hub for the city of Ohigh.

Yeah. I mean, uh, event outdoor event space is is I mean, for the the town that we live in, you would think there was there would be more spaces to gather, but there's really not a lot. And if this was a place where, you know, you could have this beautiful flat area to entertain back here. Um, many groups would use it. I've already had people approaching me. Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, they said, "When when is this going to happen?" We, you know, we'd love to have a wedding or I've had someone from Rotary said, "We want to meet in the garden house." California Native Plant Society already contact us about it. So that'd be perfect for our annual, you know, conference that we do every year. So people are interested. Yeah. Anyway, that's my input. Thank you.

Yeah. I mean, I can I'll like continue with that. But I mean I think it those are you know great points and I think that it is an really nice ability for the project to take care of what's already here you know and then I think um I don't think this is to the contrast but I think to then make the work being proposed I mean this is probably for conversation that you guys will have to dig into is is is and I'm sure HBC will have some thoughts on it But obviously it needs to fit into the existing context, but should it read as a new thing or as being a mimicry of the old thing? I think that's going to be interesting

dialogue as you go through. Part of this is I mean restoration the restoration work we also we we only know so much. We know about the buildings. We can't really know so much about the landscape. very likely um you know the invasives weren't that bad back then and you know they very likely brought some of the invasives with them the family right so it's like it's a it's going to be a sticky thing as you kind of go through it all you know I'm sure but you know to have controlled zones such as the

uh sorry the formal garden you know or some of those areas makes perfect sense and then kind of rolling into maybe a vision of what actually the same thing, a restoration of maybe more what it was like. Um, and so yeah, I don't I don't have like a lot to say on it. think that's just kind of it'll be an interesting um dialogue as as you dive into be you know past the master plan into the details of what some of this design is really like because we get paths and we get some ideas you know but we know that there's several phases to go to really figure it all out. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh yeah, I have um I have a bunch and I'll try to keep them quick. It's okay. Uh get my red pen out. You use the word hub which I absolutely agree with. Done correctly. This is a the hub of our city and I actually really agree with your comments that the maximum effort to preserve moving from a family that lived here to the family of ohhigh living here

should be should be taken into account. Um like some of the other things we've had at the table here, there's there's kind of a two sides of the two sides of the ledger issue here a little bit. this requires from a planning standpoint lots of people qualified to make great comments and I think you know you guys have done outstanding work frankly so I don't have a lot of uh lack of confidence there but from a two sides of the ledger standpoint I look at this um I see an operation I see people I see community resources and I see an investment being made on behalf of the city and then the question logically is well are we going to receive the benefit of that and I think we are things like public event spaces um um I think maximum ADA access is critical. We're getting ready to put in a bunch of housing where the consideration has been for seniors and other people and and this ADA piece even specifically down to labeling these are ADA bathrooms not just restrooms. Yeah,

they they are ADA bathrooms and having kind of a maximum access viewpoint to all members of the community is really key and you know the spirit of all of my comments here are to improve the application. We're not the department of no and I don't believe the core capacity of the planning commission is to say no. It's to help strengthen the application. So just to be clear on the on the spirit of it. So um I see 72,000 in the planning fee. That's great. This is an annual operation. Um I have a pretty heavy level of familiarity with um the ecology center in San Juan Capistrano. Oh yeah.

And I suggest and I can certainly link you to Mark and the family that run it there as independent operators.

28 acres. I was just kind of cruising their their website as you were talking a little bit. um 250,000 people through their project in the last few years, 300,000 on-site visitors, 150 culinary leaders trained, 150 farmers, 2500 households reached, 100,000 pounds of food donated. Their land is a little bit larger than ours, but it kind of gives you a scope of possibility, you know, and and usually the danger in launching something like this is there's actually too much opportunity. you know, when the opportunity is kind of limited, you can execute, but there's actually too much. We we could do a lot. We could have community farm. We could have the uh markets uh down here for the uh uh for the farmers market. A lot of things could happen here. And I think you have to be very careful to get, you know, kind of some some guard rails on it. Um I I don't like, you know, from a staff standpoint, we're early. I get it. But it is a little tricky to know that two sides of the ledger issue right out of the gate. This is a significant investment in my mind. There's new buildings. Uh there's an educational component. Um I would expect to see a land acknowledgement piece here for the Shumash.

Yes. And the other present tribes. I I would expect that that would be a critical and and core element to kind of honor what was here. um as part of honoring the the the family as well. Um so that's kind of the nature nature of my of my concerns on it uh and my thoughts on it. It requires stewardship. Absolutely. Long term. Yep.

And I think you've set the foundation for that. And I and I see in your plan this this long-term view of of how you're managing the land. Um, and then for the city, I think the other piece of that, again, I'll go back to the two sides of the ledger. The other piece of it is I don't I don't think we want to run a big business in the middle of town and turn our city hall into an operation, but I do think there's a viewpoint that says, you know, could we be kind of revenue neutral for the people who are going to come down and

do their events? Can we make enough money to pay for the operation that we put here so that the overall burden to the resident taxholder actually nets out to be zero? And the benefit is is they've invested their money in launching this and and getting it going through their tax dollars. Uh but I think it's a great I think it's a great idea. I really appreciate your work on this and you know we're we get to come in on the tail end and and and look like we know a little bit about it. But I see many years of your work, you know, in this and I I appreciate that. And um I think I think let me just uh cruise my thing here. We did receive letters about the patio the redwood uh arbor and patio areas and things like that. And I I kind of think those are worth digging digging deep into actually. I think, you know, it's the little pieces that tell the story. Well, actually, it's those those those teeny little details that actually round out the story. And I think it's a wonderful wonderful um addition to it. And the only other thing for the city would maybe be to consider a private operator in this case. I think that should be on the table uh to have somebody privately operate this enterprise on behalf of the city. That's worked. uh that model has worked on the Libby Bowl side and I think we've demonstrated that we are good owners and below average operators of of third party things like that in my experience in the Libby Bowl committee. Um our intent is always good. It's not an intent issue, but I think that's the last thing that that should perhaps be considered by by council and and inside of what you have here. So, thank you.

Thank you. Anything else? Yes. Oh, Judy, excuse me. Well, I would like to add my uh opinion of the natural woodlands aspect that you are trying very hard to protect as well as making it an educational public facing. That's that's difficult and I think you're doing a good job. I am going to bring up one other aspect of this which um I think if we can get it resolved sooner rather than later it would be helpful to this project going forward because I don't want to see you get halfway down the path and get stalled. Um, back in 2017 when the city council passed this historic preservation uh motion, the first motion that came up that evening was made by council member Hayrick. And his point was to designate the building only and keep the grounds separate and and have someone come in and do the research and write the object report for the grounds. That didn't happen. it. Uh there were a couple of motions and then eventually the final motion that did pass 3 to two was that they would include the estate in the designation. However, the problem is the report was never done on the estate. So we have a situation where we know exactly what about the building is considered

historic and what we need to protect. That was never done for the estate itself. Sure wish it had been because that would have saved us a whole lot of grief right now. The problem that comes from that is that whenever you need to do something on the 8 acres, you need to get a permit. Our historic uh laws were written later. 893 was passed and it spells out the kinds of work permits that are needed. In one case, you would have a uh a work permit that would cover major uh renovation and that would go to the historic preservation committee for approval. We don't know what on the grounds are considered historic or not. That was just never examined or approved. So all of these items that you are looking at and finding in severe disrepair, which I agree with, that arbor is lovely.

It's falling apart. I don't know what it would take to restore it, but I I think we want to look at that and look at the cost. Same thing with the carriage house. It's a charming old building, but it was a stable. In order to to salvage it and use it for the public, you you we have to look at the possibilities of an earthquake and what it would take to take a brick building and make it stable. That's a big deal. And then of course water and sewer and electric and all the rest of that. So it becomes a cost question. Is it worth it

to take this stable which is charming? I agree. But is it worth it to the community? I don't I don't know. Um that Gulf, I don't know why we call it a G a mini golf course because to me it looks like a stagnant body of water sitting on some concrete with an old bridge over it.

I don't know where the golf came from. But anyway, I I I just don't see the value in trying to hang on to that. Now, if you can show me that it was historic and can be renovated at a reasonable cost and kept um functional again now that I have had fish ponds for my whole life. They are not easy to take care of. The fish pond that's up near the building is lovely and I hope that we can bring it up to code. the extension layers that are draped about it right now are that can't be code. I I would hope that you can restore that, but the the others I I just don't see the value um just because they're old or just because they happen to have been there doesn't feel like enough reason to me to commit to restoring it at whatever cost. Mhm. So, I would like the city attorney to jump in here and give us some help with the legalities of this. We're going to have three different kinds of um uh requ uh building requests. And some of them obviously have to I mean if you're going to replace the roof on the building or replace the fireplace it has to go to the historic commission. But what about these other lower levels where the director is currently

uh uh given them the authority to approve a a project, a building project, a removal or whatever.

Yeah, I would I would be happy to speak to that. Um, Madam Chair, um, for those of you who I have not met in person, I'm Bethany Burgess in your city attorney's office, and we have looked at this issue in um, advance of this meeting to make sure that we could respond to questions just like yours. Um, as as you correctly pointed out, um, resolution 17-44 that was approved previously by council and and I apologize if I'm looking to the side, I'm looking at the resolution. Um it it designates that the city hall structure and grounds known as the Smith Hobson House structure and estate excluding the help of Ohigh building and all other outbuildings um on the property be designated as landmark number 23. And so, you know, by our read of this resolution, while it's very clear that there are certain elements of of the city hall building and both interior and exterior elements that would be considered, you know, character defining um elements of the historic landmark, it's it's less clear when you start looking at the estate, the rest of the estate grounds. And so while the grounds are are part of the designation, the outbuildings and structures appear to be excluded from that designation. So by our read of the historic preservation ordinance, what this means is that um you know the any repair ordinary repair and maintenance um you know to those and I'm now looking at the ordinance but ordinary repair and maintenance on non-landmarked structures um does not require a work permit. So with respect to the landscaping work or the landscape maintenance work that's

being proposed, you know, that does not require a work permit. What would require a work permit would be um demolition, reconstruction, um restoration, well, sorry, let me rephrase that. Um repair and repair and maintenance obviously have a character defining element but exterior alteration of the landmark mark landmark property um an alteration being defined as alteration of structures um would require a minor work permit. So for example the arbor um removal of the arbor would require a minor work permit. While those can typically be approved by the community development director, um the the ordinance does provide the community development director with authority to refer a minor work permit approval to the historic preservation commission. And you know, I I can let Lucas speak to um this a bit more, but I believe the recommendation that we've discussed is that, you know, when this would come before him for approval of a minor work permit, he would likely refer that to the historic preservation commission, just given the, you know, the great public interest in in the city hall property. So, you know, Lucas, you can confirm that. I don't want to speak for you, but um you know, obviously removal of those structures would still be subject to um the permit.

Thank you. I I agree that the city is most likely very interested in what happens to this property. They certainly have been in the past. Um, it was interesting to me that until I got and I have walked that property before, but until I got this document, I didn't realize that there were all these the rose bush on the the white frame. I it it's there now. I found it, but I hadn't noticed it before. sound doesn't sound like it's real historic or that it's vital to our um keeping this historic. Um I guess a lot of it is going to come down to what do we consider to be looking for my wording here. As I read through this, it talks about something being character defining. That seems very subjective to me. And it was clarified in the report about the building. They were very specific about the beams and the cabinets and the fireplaces and the doors and the windows and and everything. They haven't done that for the grounds. So, it leaves it to us to the community to figure out what is character defining. And I'd like to just express an opinion here and now that I don't think that rose bush is character defining, but that's just my opinion. I would really like to see this whole issue get sorted out

sooner rather than later so that you can proceed with with your plan without running into road hurdles all along the way. So that's my input.

Anything else? Well, C, I mean, in in consideration of that, maybe you could just speak a little bit more because the slide was pretty um you know, it was a pretty simple one on how you sort of see um the completion of master plan and then moving into further design and how you might imagine sequencing and phasing, I guess, well, approvals and work because I think part of What the concern here, which is a valid one, is like if you do it a certain way, you know, everything you do is going to take you a year, you know, just to get it approved. If you do it another way,

you get it all, you know, you get a lot of things figured out and then you are just sort of like working through them, you know, in more specific uh construction phases. Um, yeah. Anyways, I don't know. if there's a plan around that that might also help inform the concern that that Judy's bringing up.

Well, ideally, um I agree with Chair Murphy. Um it would be ideal to have this sorted out ASAP just so we're clear. And I and I do want to say that we are into um preserving or restoring obviously most of what would be considered probably historic items of interest although they're not defined in the ordinance. Um but the reason for having that would be of course that when the master plan is done there's more definitive information and I think Mr. Walker was kind of alluding to, well, it's hard to like at this point, uh, HBC is like generally in favor, but we don't have all this information about what you're proposing yet. And part of the reason we're not sure yet is because there's the question mark of um, for instance, like the carriage house. We've been saying all along that and hopefully the city will um or city council. I'm not sure who will initiate it, but we recommended a structural engineer look at the carriage house early on last year when we first got the contract because we thought, okay, well, if it's going to cost too much money or it's just not even doable, let's just leave it and or or whatever, you know, talk to the city and find out what they want to do. But potentially, it may or may not be able to be used. So I agree. And so a lot of these things need to be um clarified and then assessed. You know, is it worth it or is there value to take it out to leave it to try to rehabilitate whatever is needed or not needed? I'm not sure at this point. So we've looked at a lot of these things, but we have there's things that are left up in the air. So that kind of ties into the master plan, which um will be completed in May. The next

step is design development. So we're going to have more information than you saw on the concept plan, but generally speaking, um it's not real detailed out. So design development is taking the master plan, which would be the next step, and then you start saying, oh, you're going to put in an AD accessible path, and we're going to say on our master plan, it's DG and it's six feet wide, and it's AD accessible. But in design development, we're going to say, "Oh, it's this product, and here's what the edge condition is going to be, and when the ve where the vehicles are, it's going to be this deep, and where the pathways are, it's going to be." So, you're starting to add more information. Um, I am having a meeting next week actually with the city manager to kind of talk about um next steps and to the degree of what what information is included, when, and where. Um, the next step after that is the construction documents, but you have to have clear information to do the construction documents because that's going to tell you how to bid it if it goes out to bid, which probably would. Um, and then of course how to build it and it meets the code. Um, I'm not sure if I'm answering your question all the way. Is this the direction you want for

generally? I mean, I think maybe to inform just people how it, you know, how how you're thinking it'll work. And I think it's also a question if there there doesn't have to be a clear answer, but I do think that there is an answer in there that can potentially problem solve what Julie's asking uh without at with the current conditions of the resolutions as they stand.

Right. So, I I I'm wondering, you know, at this point, I mean, we got a a general description from the city attorney. Um, and I think it would be um do we need to have a report done where the items are actually looked at and legally addressed and it becomes I don't know if it's an exhibit or an attachment to this u resolution. It would certainly make it easier for our community director because right now we've left a big pot of pro problems in his I would think if that could happen

soon that would be that would be really good and I guess you know it also would tie into any other um well if if there is any other landmark properties or something that the city owns and you know that to make sure that everything is complete and then when a situation potentially arises there's a place to go to for the correct information. Um, I also wanted to say in our master plan, it's not only going to be graphic plans, but there will be a master plan report and we'll be acknowledging the Chumash the the family here. of course the historical part of the property um in addition to a lot of other things but we are going to be including and we're working on this right now as a preliminary cost analysis for budgeting purposes because um you know the city may contribute some I mean there there's we've been getting head nods I don't have an absolute number or anything of course um but there's also opportunities for grant funding um for part of it Um there's also opportunity for what I would call the easier things like planting to have workshops where we have volunteers come in. We also have talked to um Nordof High School. They have a native plant nursery and um being able to get the plant material from them. They have said potentially we could even be given the plant material or at a really super reduced rate or something to be determined. But so there's opportunities within the community to make um some of it happen. You know, I kind of refer back to the uh Libby Bowl or the Libby Park playground project. Um I was on the planning commission when that came through and I was on the the committee. Each commission I think had a commissioner on that committee. But um yeah, a lot of it was, you know, the community came out and essentially build it,

you know, even if it was somebody who brought a tray of lasagna for dinner to feed the workers, but everybody contributed in a lot of different ways. So there's an opportunity for something like that to happen as well. But yes, so we will be including that for budgeting and potentially, you know, we could look at it and prioritize phasing if that's needed or um there's different ways to approach it, but um we're actively working on all of that. Okay.

I I have a question for the city attorney. So, um, if the object record designates the main building only, um, does the HPC have jurisdiction over all of the other outbuildings and other other items?

The buildings were excluded. So the character and and going back to um some of the previous comments. So the charact the city's historic preservation ordinance includes a definition for character defining elements that provides that the the character defining elements are specified in the council's resolution designating the landmark. So for this resolution, it designates effectively it designates certain exterior components or or characteristics on on the main building and then also some interior components and features and and but because of that, you know, if you look at the section that provides um for approval of work permits or requires approval of work permits, it does require that alteration of structures effectively that are not character defining are subject to approval of a minor work permit. There are two categories of work permits. There are minor work permits and major work permits and historic preservation is the is the historic preservation commission is the authority for issuing major work permits. but they also may approve or consider minor work permits when those are referred to them by the community development director. Does that answer your question, Commissioner?

Yeah, I I I think so. You know, I guess what I'm trying to wrap my head around, and I I might just not be smart enough, but what I'm trying to wrap my head around a little bit is the solution that you were talking about so that we do not hand them a hornets's nest.

That that solution, what what are the details and the pieces of that? Is it that we need to clean up this object record issue? is that that we need a priority um evaluation on what's a must-have and what's a like to have in terms of preservation around some of the you know topics that you were talking about what what's essential to tell the story and add value to the community. Um, so I'm just trying to understand a little bit what are the what are the building uh blocks o of this solution that we could kind of quickly get to because I I do think broadly if I read the room everybody loves this and everybody appreciates the work and so part of what we want to do is get get that u that glide path for you to get you off the runway and into the sky.

I like that and flying on this. How do we how do we help you build that glide path? And I'm not sure I I I suspect this is is going to wind up as a city council decision. Um but in I mean we're just here to offer our opinions and and ask questions that will help clarify for you uh

where to take this project. And I I think I've been pretty clear. I I feel that the lack of the um the estates portion the the eight acres the lack of re object report for that is really a big hole that we haven't filled and I don't think it's fair to make the community director decide on every single little thing that comes along whether he has to take this to the HPC and then it becomes another whole investigation or not. I it we haven't we should have listened to you Bill Hyrick way back. Um any anything else? Do you have any other direction for Kathy? Any other comments? No. Well, thank you very much. We really appreciate your coming and explaining this fairly complicated story to us.

Thank you and thank you for all the input. I really appreciate it. Good. I have a process question actually back to this master plan. I was just thinking about that too. Yeah. Yeah. So, does this have to be amended or is do we does this get superseded? How I mean this was probably I my guess is it was adopted by resolution. Um if if we could maybe ask staff to look into that. Yeah. I I have some vague memories of the Libby Park plan being adopted, but it didn't affect all of the extraneous land coming. Uh well, this 93 plan does. So, yeah, that includes this whole

uh several parcels here, the eight acres, so to speak. Yeah. And the maintenance yard. And the maintenance yard. Yeah, exactly. No, I've looked at it. I I would like staff to investigate that for us, please. Thank you, chair. We'll be done. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Moving right along. We have a director's report. Oh, future agenda items. Or are we future?

Future agenda items. Okay, let's do let's do future interventions. Let me pull that up here real quick. Okay, so for April 1st, this is not an April Fool's joke. We're we're not seeing any items that will be ready by April 1st. So, we're actually looking to consider cancelling this um meeting. As you know, it will it will require you to take action on that for the 15th. Looking even beyond that, there's a discussion topic for joint meeting with council. Um it's good to start having that conversation early on. April's probably a good um kind of kickoff point to that June 9th tentative um date at this point. We'll see if that um holds. and then uh commission training, but I'll put an asterk by that uh just to ensure that the city attorney is aware of that and that we've got that um built in. Okay, good. She's giving me a nod. Um there is the potential for another item being added to that agenda and um we'll see if they get their ducks in a row for it to be um publicly noticed because it will be a public hearing item. and and those are the three items u that I'm seeing for the potentially for the 15th um and beyond.

So, okay. Thank you. Yep. And a director's report. Well, hold on. Let's let's first um there are I'm not seeing any items for April 1st, so I would need Oh, you want us to take a a vote on cancelling that meeting? Correct. Okay, I would entertain a motion at this time. Uh, I will make a motion to cancel the April 1, 2026 regular meeting. I'll second the motion. Could we have the votes, please? Murphy, yes. Chesley, yes. Rice Schmidt, yes.

Stewart, yes. Okay. Now, the director's report.

All right. So, I have two things that I wanted to kind of announce to this body because I think it's it's near and dear to to each and every one of you. Um, the first one is the the general plan update, which some of you have heard about. It's legendary. It's been going on since 2019 when the city entered into an agreement with Ramy Associates. we are ready to move forward. Um, and the first item that would be moving forward would be the safety element. And um, you should be expecting to see something in your inbox. And if you want a hard copy of it, um, I can certainly send that out as well and provide it to you in the next 7 to 10 days. and it will be a red line of changes as well as a clean version of what those changes look like. Okay? And it will be the entire safety element. Now, the nice thing is is I'm giving you 30 days or more to to have a chance to review and to kind of soak it in. If you have questions, you want to meet with me, I certainly encourage that. Um, it will be a two-step process. We're looking for comments from the planning commission and then we'll be taking those comments and then forwarding those to city council and then looking for comments there. This will not include any sort of environmental review at this point. What we're looking for is just the document itself which will help inform the environmental document. The EIR that will come um on the heels of of a safety element is the first one. The circulation element will be the second and the land use element will be the third. Now coming with the third one or the third item. Now I I can't tell you how quickly the circulation and the land use will come, but I can tell you the safety element you should be expecting in the next to have before you at a

commission meeting in the next 45 days or sooner. That's the first thing. The second thing that I wanted to mention to you and I encourage you is the survey I had mentioned a meeting or two ago in regards to um the economic diversification element that has the survey may have ended and we are collecting a ton of information that's come from it which is great. I think we had 3 82 or 86 somewhere right around there um respondents which is amazing. Um, if you haven't filled out the survey yet or if for whatever reason staff didn't send it to you, let me know immediately. We can send that to you to make sure that you are a part of this process as well. Um, but we are in the process of taking and digesting that information and boiling it down for um for our consultant Ramy Associates. So, those are the two things that I wanted to kind of announce, make this body aware of um and what they what they can be expecting in the in the coming days. So, thank you.

Thank you. Uh are there any commission member reports? No. Okay. Um, our mayor uh had hoped to be here for the last portion of the meeting, but he obviously has not made it. So, um, we will not be hearing from him tonight and therefore I call adjournment at 7:36. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys.

Thanks everyone.