Village Commission - Regular Meeting

uh okay oh he okay uh it's 4 0 1 p.m recording in progress december 1st i'm calling to order this special meeting of the north bay village commission madam clerk will you please call the roll commissioner costa here commissioner here here

Commissioner Carroll.

Here.

Vice Mayor Cook is not present. Mayor Streifel.

I'm here. Let's say the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

Madam Clerk, will you kindly advise when the Vice Mayor does join the meeting? Okay. We're gathered here today for one item, and that's item 2A, discussion and direction on the village's agreements with Project Football LLC relating to the community center at Galleon Street and the fields at Treasure Island Elementary School. i'm going to turn it over to the village manager and the village attorneys to set forth um the reasons for this afternoon's meeting good afternoon mayor and commissioners um as you're aware uh we're

In the project, actual construction on the community center and work is ongoing on the ties fields on the school side. And there are issues within the agreements that we've been discussing back and forth with PFL representatives and with the commission. And some of the things have not been resolved at this point, and we just felt it was necessary to have a meeting with all the parties present so that we could run through them and try to get things settled away in the final stages here. Like I say, the buildings are going up. Over the weekend, they poured the second floor, and they'll be setting block on there by Wednesday or Thursday of this week, start going up with the walls of the second floor so it's moving and so it's time to get some of these things that we've talked about for a while resolved and that's the reason for the meeting and i will turn it over to our village attorney to take it from this point forward

Good afternoon, Mayor and Commission. I'm joined by my partner, Chad Friedman, who many of you know from the beginning of this journey that we've been on. So Chad and I, and hello, Vice Mayor, Chad and I have been meeting with PFL's representatives as well as the manager, as well as some of you in a sunshine meeting to go over a variety of issues that we've been addressing outside of the actual or in relation to the construction. So as a result of a sunshine meeting among ourselves, Commissioner Sharvoni, Mayor Streitfeld, and then following that sunshine meeting, a meeting that was held at our office with Mr. Powell and PFL's contractor, I felt that it was important to get us all in the same room, so that you all have the same information. And we can get your feedback and make some decisions. So I didn't want to delay in getting that done and having this discussion later this month because there are, as Frank said, some things that are ongoing and we need to take some action on presently. So I think all of you are aware of this. We have a joint use agreement with the school board and we also have four agreements with PFL. those agreements are split up into the TIE site and the Galleon site. What we're really talking about today is really just the Galleon site. I know the TIEs is mentioned on the agenda. I don't think that there's anything we really need to address with TIEs, but it all goes together. From a background perspective, I'm going to hand out some of the floor plans. Thank you, Frank. Keep some here. So in the agreements that were approved by commissions, there were site plan documents that were included and The documents that Frank is sharing with you now are the building set of documents. And they are in many respects the same as what we have in our agreements, but in some ways they are slightly different. So I just want to go through those with you from the ground floor up so that we can make some of the decisions. So here's the, I gave you, okay. So right now, the ground floor space, as you can see, is pretty much the same as what we had when we approved the agreements. There have been some revisions in terms of layout, but it's effectively the same. Where you see on the right side, where it says assembly area, 935 square feet, Next to that, you have a service room, storage area, parks and rec, and BV, I think that might be an office, and then a lobby area. So those three spaces that I just described weren't part of the original design. That was all one open common area of 1,500 square feet. I'm just pointing that out. I don't know that that's particularly significant, but those are some minor revisions that were made, as well as just some of the layout. You still have your women's and men's restrooms and locker rooms up on the top left, and then you have an ADA restroom on the bottom left and an office. Then on the top right, you have a padel and soccer office and a small 100 square foot office that office on the original plans was one office but the concept is is that that will be the front facing community facing office

Sorry to interrupt. Well, I appreciate going through this and the differences. One, I want to know, what's the point? Because are we going to be making comments to this? Because, like, I have lots of comments.

Okay.

Okay. Okay. So we're going to go through.

So I want to make sure that everybody has the same basic understanding.

Okay.

If you have that understanding, then we can just jump right into the fact that in July, you approved to have a concession on the first floor. We don't have that in the plans, but where that concession would be is in this assembly area section where it's 935 square feet.

And Madam Attorney, I don't have all the information. So I really do appreciate you going into the detail. Thank you.

So effectively, the first floor layout is all the same as what was approved originally.

Except it's not, because what was originally approved didn't show these other offices eating into that overall assembly area. It was all one open space with a staircase, actually, that went up to the second floor building like a mezzanine. Now we have a lobby area that is more of like kind of like a jump lobby or like a little staging area. And then there's another set of doors that takes you into this open area that would one day be the cafe. And then there's this office space that... service room and storage area, parks and recreation, NBV. I mean, we've added now enclosed offices into what was supposed to be an open gathering space for the community. And that's not what was on the plan before that we approved. So I don't know why we made changes to the first floor layout between site plan approval and the building permit.

I mean, this floor... This is exactly out of what was approved by the commission.

No.

Yes.

No, no. What she's saying is what's in the agreement.

Since I don't have the site plan approval in front of me, all I can do is base my comments off of what was just advised, which is that these enclosed offices.

Okay. I got you. I understand.

Okay.

Do you know? And PFL's contractor, Gustavo Bogomolny, is here.

Hi, how are you? Gustavo Bogomolny, MC3 Developer Group. I'm the general contractor. I'm trying to help as an owner representative for a project. Really, I don't have the first plan that was already approved. But from a standpoint of understanding what is the use Basically, any concession that you will have, they had to have a back of the house and storage and a small office to run the concession. So if you are talking about these two offices and the lobby, the lobby is something that is going to be normal in any architectural plan. You have a reception. You cannot go in directly to the place. And basically, it's created by the storage that you have here. I don't know if I answered the question.

So I guess what you're saying is that this construction set of plans is what we got in, I think August or September.

This never changed from the first, I don't say it was approved because I wasn't there, but this was the first floor plan that was submitted to the town from building permit, yes. Right.

And I think what I'm putting together here is in July of this year, the commission agreed to do a concession on the first floor. The commission didn't discuss who was going to run the concession, how it was, what it was going to look like.

And they never came back and approved a revised site plan that reflected the concession. Correct.

We just said there will be a concession. So I think what your building plans are showing is that being implemented and integrated into the plans.

That is correct. I don't remember from the top of my head, but something by code, you need to provide a couple of things for any concession, including that we... include that we uh including the civil plans a grease trap that was not uh reflected before in the original plan because you need the concession and of course you need the derma proof and all this so basically to create the concession there is small storage and a small office basically this is basically what was uh added to this if i'm not mistaken by the original plants and this is because you already approved the concession it's part of

Can we remove the partition doors between that primary entrance from the steps up? If you're walking up the steps on Galleon Street, there's an entrance that takes you into that little like smaller lobby area. And then there's another set of doors into the cafe. Is there a way to open that up so it feels like a more open space?

There are double doors now. There are double doors seen on the plants. Do you say that you want to take it out?

Yeah, I'm assuming it's for fire.

I think it's for fire. I can confirm, but normally this is needed by fire. It has to be with the access control just in case. But I can double check if you want.

Yeah, it's not a wall. It's a door. It's a double door.

Basically, if I were at the concession, I prefer to not have this because it's... I'm agreeing with you. But let me check if it's for fire.

You see where I'm going with it, right?

Absolutely. I'm agreeing with you 100%.

And maybe, you know...

Yes, because if somebody goes to a cafe, it's nicer to have the view of the cafe, not a door. Right. I'm agreeing. If it's for fire, probably we can do a glass door. But let me double check on that.

Okay.

So I understand why we need a service room and storage area, but then there's that, I don't know how many square feet it is, but the park and recreation NBB, was it like 540 offices? Yeah.

I believe.

So there's a storage space and another office on the ground floor. This would be the fourth office. Well, the fifth if you include the Pedel office.

So there would be an office for whoever is in charge of Parks and Recreation separate from the office where that that accepts people coming in and wanting to register for a class or getting information or anything of that type.

I'm sorry. Frank, can you repeat that for me again? So you have an office?

There'd be an office for Parks and Recs. whoever's directing Parks and Rec, and there'd be an office for a person. The place has to be staffed. There would have to be somebody there that receives people when they come in.

General, basically, services.

You're here. How can I help you? Whatever.

So on this floor plan, the service room and storage area, is that essentially backup house for the cafe?

Sorry, which one?

Under the elevator, the service room, the service room and the 275 square feet service room and storage area. That's not the entire back of house.

Sorry, we're talking about 270. Yeah. So it's where it says service room and storage area. Right?

Yeah.

You're having the phone.

Thank you.

My age.

I feel the same way. I'm like, it's tiny. Don't realize our age. I'm trying to figure where I was talking about.

We're talking about 275 square feet.

Yeah.

That is minimum for storage and for service room, basically. Here, if you can see, you need a minimum administration area, one desk at least for one person to run there.

But my question really is, where is the actual back of the house for the cafe?

It's in that 275 feet.

So my coffee, my smoothie, my panini, my salad, whatever I'm getting at that cafe.

Ah, no, where are they going to prepare? Ah, no, the back of the house is where it's storage. It's going to be in the 935 square feet. Basically, we don't have the layout because we don't know who's going to be the concessionaire.

So within the large space that you see here.

It's going to be like a bar with the back of the house in the back. But I cannot tell you right now because they are working with a couple of options. And depending who is going to run the day by day, they're going to let us know exactly what they need. But it's going to be in the large area.

Yeah, I mean, I think what we need to do is we need to come back and do a revised site plan approval.

I agree.

We're talking about putting in a kitchen in this ground floor and there's no back wall. There's office, office, storage, storage, mechanical room, access to an elevator. There's no, there's no back wall.

I don't think there's a kitchen.

No, there isn't.

No, no, no. Sorry. It's not going to be a full kitchen. It's going to be a warming area, basically. All the food is going to come from the outside. Anyway, ask for a grease wrap. But it's not going to be food preparation except for small sandwiches or whatever. But it's not going to be a full food preparation. Exactly. Exactly.

Okay. I do think that the site plan, once you guys have made some more progress with the concessionaire and Heidi and Chad, just because this is We need to put ourselves, I mean, we all live here. We're all going to use this building. We are the users. So you need to come back with an idea of what it's going to look like with the concession so that the users can ask questions from a user standpoint.

If I may, I think that we need to bifurcate the commission sitting in their proprietary capacity and regulatory. So, like, you're talking about. Hey, it's our community center. We want to bless the uses in the way it's allocated inside.

I just want to make sure that we're not designing a building that is going to be a pain in the butt to go to. I want to make sure we're designing an efficient building that it's going to make people feel the way that we want them to feel when they're in our community center.

Correct. But not in a regulatory... In other words, not full-blown site plan, but instead, you guys want to bless the program, the programmatic aspects of this building. Shifting partitions and stuff like that doesn't rise to a level of a formal site plan, but you want the... the plan to come back and to bless the program of this building, including the storage areas and the shifting around of the concession. Where is it going to go? Because it's your community center.

And that's part of what we would be doing as a result. So at the conclusion of this afternoon's meeting, we want to be in a position where we can amend the amendment that was done in July and attach to that the building plans for you to bless. So not bring it back as a site plan amendment, but rather Sorry. This book, these floor plans that make up, these are the five agreements.

Yeah, but not, I just want to make sure that when it comes back to us and we're blessing it, like it's attached, I guess, as an exhibit to the amended agreements. Correct.

it's binding it's binding it's binding you want it like it's binding just to come back just like when you guys blessed it here you wanted to come back the final programmatic um plan for the building so i think my only concern my only concern with the cafe is i'd like it to be a design that will not be obsolete in x number of years we don't know who's going to be there

Let's say our arguments take the first five years and then they decide to leave and we have to re-rent it out to somebody else. By we, I mean we in the full sense, them and us. So we need to create something that would not be obsolete.

And I think that's where Gus is explaining that. What is listed, and I have it up on the screen. What is shown here is this 935 square foot assembly area. That's the concession area.

Correct.

And whoever the concessionaire is, is going to build out the interior of that to whatever is functional for that operator. We're not going to dictate or at least at this stage. We are not dictating how that layout is going to look. We're going to leave that to whoever the operator is. We're just going to give them these four walls and they're going to build it out. And I'm sure Gus will be involved in that.

I think what the mayor is saying is she wants to see, once that gets further along, where in this square the concession is going to go. But the four walls also have three accesses to the rest of that first floor. Right. So it may be limiting in where it could go.

So we need – we want to – I don't want it to be an obsolete space where when somebody else comes, oh, no, we need to close this door and make it a wall. No, it makes – Make it flow. I mean, not to that specific point of designing it for them, but making it flow for whoever.

So I think one of the discussion points later on here is, as part of this discussion of the first floor is, at your July meeting, you didn't select a concessionaire. You didn't say if the village was going to run the concession. You didn't say if we were going to delegate that responsibility through a separate agreement with PFL or Riversea and have them select someone. So that's also part of the feedback we'd like from you this evening. I know PFL... has indicated to us that they have operators that they've worked with in other instances that they would like to utilize here, but that's not part of the current agreement. They have an agreement to operate fields and courts. They don't have an agreement to operate the concession. So if we want to allow them to do that, we can, that's not a problem. We just need to know that. And also incorporate profit sharing. That would probably be one of the negotiated points, yes. Absolutely.

We originally did have a revenue split when it was originally contemplated, but that was taken out. So we would bring back that concept.

Can you give us a summary of best practices and what other communities do when they have concessionaires in their public spaces?

Sure. As far as... Like, in what regard? Like menus or size?

No, I would imagine it's how they break down the... How much space?

The revenue shares. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean... We can definitely do that. We can give you some real life examples. Some of them, you know, and I've been working on several of them now. And a lot of the times the governments provide for a pretty substantial tenant improvement allowance or to allow a lot of upstart. But we can give you that breakdown of what they are.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I know that I'm certainly not prepared today to provide guidance or direction as to the contractual obligations, potential standards that we might have first concessionaires, whether or not we want to manage it ourselves give it to them to manage is it a completely separate and new fifth agreement with pfl i mean yeah that is it's not that's and i think i mean i wasn't planning on being here till 10 p.m tonight also so yeah but i think also wants to present their full plan or idea what they want to do with health

make that determination, whether it's something we want to be more participant on or more profit sharing or less profit sharing, all of those questions. It's hard to see.

The amount of profit sharing is certainly one of the considerations that we need to suss out. But the threshold question of Do we want to have a public competitive sort of open door application process for concessionaire that we get feedback from the community about what they would like to see in that space? Or do we want to potentially expedite the process, lose a little bit of our say and delegate to PFL to have them fill the space however they so desire so we I mean that's the threshold question and I don't I I would like to know you know I'm Miami Beach concessions are highly lucrative Coral Gables same thing I mean like the all of these cities have public spaces where small business owners take up leases and do very well so I will give you some examples yeah if I may um

My client's intention was always to look for a concessionaire once the commission had approved putting in a concessionaire. But obviously, anybody that would approach us for use of that space would obviously have to be approved by North Bay Village. So that was their intention, just to clarify. It wasn't their intention to just choose themselves and operate it. So it's always going to be presented to the commission for approval.

Yeah. And the particular agreement is important too, right? Because it's certainly not a lease, right? Unless it would be a license and the village would have to grant that license. Correct.

So at what points are we looking for those concessionaires or vendors? Are you already talking to people to fill the space?

Yes, they've already been approached by two or three, especially the Argentine Football Association has several that they've operated with and they've already said that they would be interested. The discussion was started, but we didn't want to continue too far on until we knew what the decision of the commission and North Bay Village as a whole was. So they're there, but they're waiting for us to give them feedback as to how we're going to proceed and all that. It was our thought that it would just be amended into our agreement because initially the first set of agreements we were negotiating with i don't want to throw it out there but like three four years ago did include a uh it said cafeteria i believe initially and um it was part of the whole profit share within that agreement so we were just thinking we were just gonna put back in the concession except that instead of having a full-on kitchen type it would be more of a cafe with warmers and things like that where people can come in socialize and have a beverage, sandwiches, things like that. And the concessionaires that we've been talking to are amenable to something to that effect.

I really think that we should poll the community and ask them what type of concession they might be more inclined, right? Like, we have three places within a 10-minute walk where you can get pastelitos and croquetas and, you know, three places within walking distance, at least. And so I'm not saying I don't want to be able to get a croqueta at our community center because I always want more. But maybe we should think about what are people going to want here? That's something we haven't talked about at all.

And we may also have local businesses who might want to take over the space themselves. who are already here.

Yeah, the concepts that we've been talking to are not croquetas and pastelitos. It's more sandwiches de miga and medialunas and things like that. And paninis and things of that nature.

Your point about local businesses being interested in the space is also very well taken.

Especially if there's no kitchen, because now we have a place, for example, like Tao, who has the kitchen, who may be able to just do an extension of their business there, or the Cuban place, or so many different little restaurants that may do a smaller version of their restaurant, being that they have a full kitchen within the mile.

Pizza Delight.

Pizza Delight would love a space like that. You know, and again, it's pizza, it's sodas. It's a little bit different. It's not the croqueta.

No, I mean, they can put it in a full kitchen, but due to the space they have.

No, I understand there's limitations. But that's what it could open to the opportunity for a local business that's already have something running here to just do an extension of that, you know, to their already existing kitchen.

I think we need to get some more guidance from...

Well, look, we'll give you the background. I think today's exercise was to really advise you guys of the update, understanding that you want to see the final set of plans to bless and where things are going. And then the discussion on whether or not you guys are going to operate or they're going to operate, and the profit sharing can be left for a different day. It will be a concept that will be included in the next turn of the agreement that will say that there will be a concession on the first floor, which will be probably by separate agreement, and it will be negotiated.

Can I just say that if the village is going to be the issuer of the license and basically the... the party in contract with the concession operator, doesn't it just make the most sense for us to be in control of that entire process and cut out a middleman?

If that's what the village wants.

It makes sense to me too. The more control we can have with that space, the better.

If the village wants to control the concession, then tell us and that's the way it will be.

I would like us to have more control.

That would be hiring staff. You need more people. The people we have right now, we cannot have somebody that's going to be in charge of a concession stand.

Well, no. I think the distinction is whether the village contracts directly with a concessionaire who would run the concession. or whether the village contracts with PFL slash River Sea slash AFA, who would in turn contract with a concessionaire.

For me, it's more the idea of the control of who would be there, what operations will we have there over us being the people in charge of managing a business.

And I can say that in our discussions, we have always, at least in our discussions, I shouldn't say always in the last month of discussions um what has been proposed is that the village would of course be ultimately involved in in selecting the concessionaire so alpha would bring us a list or say this is who we are talking to would the village approve this and we would bring that to you and you would say yay or nay

Yeah, and conceptually, the whole idea of adding it onto this current concession and us being able to provide a sub-concession with the commission's approval is also that we need to find revenue streams for PFL and AFA to recover their investment in this project, which has, because of the increase in construction costs, their break-even point is getting further and further away. So adding this concession helps them try to recover the investment in the project.

Yeah, for both of us.

Of course.

So as far as... The next turn of the agreement. First of all, I think we'll have the updated plans. We should show you guys where the concessions are. I think that on the ground floor here, there's some concern over these two back of house, which are eating up the space. And we would want MG3 and PFL to look at that. And then we'll convey, obviously, the message they heard that it seems as if the commission would at least one to control the concession.

Yeah.

Is that an accurate summary?

It is for me.

I don't think we've had a full-throated discussion about this. I'm leaning toward preferring that we contract directly and have the ability to be more responsive and more in control of our destiny and circumstances. Yeah, that's where I'm leaning.

Well, I think we've got to nail it down. So as we move forward in direction of what we do with, do we eliminate this build out out of the drawings and whoever comes, we then are going to build out or they have to build out. We were looking at something that was more modular in nature, but Anybody that comes is going to have to have some kind of back of house or some kind of storage area. So do we leave the storage area or do we take the storage area out? I mean.

So I don't know that we're.

I assume that's just drywall.

We can't go back to step one and start planning this all over again. And that's what we're doing basically with a cafe. It's ridiculous to have this conversation all over again.

I never thought that it was the village's responsibility to run or book a cafe. So I'm in preference of you guys bringing us a vendor and then we just sign off on it if we're good with it.

We share in the profits. Yeah, I agree.

I don't want to select a vendor or staff this. I mean, if they're willing to do it, bring us someone qualified that you guys like.

And if we can open it to the public, that will be also for me.

We're not going to be able to open it to the public. They're going to decide. Under no circumstances are we staffing a cafe. We contract with a concessionaire to operate the concession.

I agree with you on that. I like that kind of control too. I also lean towards that.

We've had it in a revised agreement since July that the concession was part of ground floor plan and that we wanted a cafe. We amended the agreement in July to reflect that we wanted a cafe. But we really haven't talked anymore about it until today. So I'm nervous about what the floor plan looks like, how you get a cafe in this space, and how you make the whole thing work. I want to understand what is realistic given the spatial constraints that we have. And I would really love to see more realistically what they're talking about. I appreciate what you guys are saying. You don't want to run this. You thought it was just going to be turnkey. They were going to deliver it. That's good, except when we get all kinds of feedback that people don't like it.

Correct. Or lease renewal issues.

Well, excuse me. There's people that rent spaces and build out a restaurant. You go, you try it. If you like it, you come back. If you don't like it, you don't come back. If they don't cater properly to the residents that are going to be using the cafe, they're going to lose money.

There's three places nearby that they can walk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I realize that there's a concern with timing, right? We want to have this building done within the next six months, four months.

It has to be done before the World Cup.

which would mean by June.

So my question, and this is- The place too, I don't know if the cafe because it's not under my plate, but we need to finish with the plans, of course.

So my question, and this is really for Gus, this area here that's designated as service room and storage area, parks and rec and BV, I'm assuming that these walls are all just drywall. Is there an issue if you don't build that out right now? This discussion is not going to delay the rest of the build out, right? I'm trying to.

We can avoid to do that. My only concern, I'm not sure I had to talk to the architect about the code. Because when Durham approves the grease trap and warming kitchen or warming area, I think, I'm not sure, I think that we need to show in the plans like a storage or back house for the cafeteria. I'm talking about this because I build more than 55 schools and always happen that. I don't know. Normally, I think it's the same. I cannot be sure. So when we want to have the inspection from the county, if they don't see that, I don't know what happened. I don't know, really.

But that could be done once you actually have the restaurant operator who is building it out to whatever their specs are.

Thinking out loud, always when you do something, you have to see the worst case, not the best case.

But they may not be able to get a TCO.

Exactly. If we don't have a TCO, we are in a problem. So... I think, from my understanding, of course, the decision is up to you, but I think it's better to build these three walls, have the inspection, and then if the cafeteria coming during these next five months is good, if they come in later, they have to submit a build-out plan, and it's going to include destroyed or changed or whatever this part.

So, Fabian, you mentioned that you guys were moving forward under the assumption that you were going to be identifying the concessionaire and basically having them build it out. And was that going to be along the same open by World Cup timeline?

This is...

um i initially that was the idea to hopefully have everything done um we had a slowdown in construction for like two weeks three weeks and um also we we wanted some clarity as to how we're going to manage the concession so the discussions were sort of put on hold for now until we heard from all of you as to how you want us to proceed um As soon as we get the green light, we can go ahead and continue on the conversation and see how quickly they're willing to move forward. But obviously, once we have one or two or three selected, we want to bring them in front of you and the commission and you let us know which concession you prefer. And if you approve it, then we tell them, let's start immediately with the build out plans.

Yeah, I would really like to see a little bit more of realistically what it could look like and how it's going to function. I'm just too skeptical right now.

Would you like renderings?

I don't want you to spend a ton of money on renderings. I mean, they don't need to be professional renderings. But I want to be able to see the flow of the space, a concept, yeah, that kind of thing.

No, I completely understand. I completely understand. I'll definitely reach out with Gustavo and my clients so that we can have something put together where you can visualize how it would work and how it would flow and how it would look as best as we can.

And if you're open to local businesses reaching out, is that something, an option that they can reach out to you with their proposal if they're able to?

I'd have to ask. I imagine that they would not have an issue with receiving other options. They wanted, since some of them have already a relationship in other locations, they reached out to them, who they know.

I understand. But being that we have the proximity of these four kitchens, you may make a difference.

Do you know of anybody that's interested in

No, personally, we just had this conversation today. But I can imagine a few people may be interested.

May be interested, but we're short on time as well. This has to open a World Cup, people. We're way behind.

Can I clarify something? Now I'm talking about as a business person. When you have a concession or a tenant or whatever, you start a negotiation. Who is going to pay the bill out? Who is going to be the TI and all these kind of things, okay? So normally, you and them, will prefer to have like a concession or tenant or how you know legally how you're going to call that has a good financial and a good track record so I think this is going to be the determination if I'm where the business is coming next door mom and papa and say no I don't have any financial just do my build out and if I'm doing well it's not a living nobody wants that Just to have, like Commissioner Truboni says, it's one thing to have, I think somebody's interested, and another one is to have a sort of... From my understanding, there are two big and nice, and I didn't know, so I told you last time, I can tell you one, but it's not commit. We can disclose, but it's going to be two or three nice and well-known operators, from my understanding.

We do have... it may not sound like it, but there are businesses around here who also probably have the financials to find us to do it. But again, it's just a matter of having the conversation. I think that just closing the door to it and not saying, okay, this is what... No, I'm just saying, these are the things that we would like to see. And whether the answer is yes or not, there's also a short timeline. People answer or they don't answer. And the opportunity is there. I mean, we have Half Moon around the corner. They have operators at the airport, which is very similar to your operations. They also have their main kitchen and main location right here down the street. So there are companies who may be able to provide a service.

I'm agree with you. But like Richard said, the timeline is very hard. So this is something that has to be decided.

I didn't say that it has to be a northern village. All I'm saying is providing the opportunity locally.

I understand what you're saying, for sure. And I'm sure that anybody who would like to be considered obviously can submit and we can take a look at it.

Thank you. That's pretty much it.

Not a problem at all.

And if it doesn't match the timeline, it doesn't match the timeline.

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. That's no issue.

So just to... I know we don't want to be here until 10 o'clock at night. To close the loop on the concession aspect, it sounds like there's consensus... for PFL to run it, and we would bring back whatever that agreement looks like, and in the interest of time, that concession agreement would be done by a separate agreement. In other words, we would bring back a First Amendment that says PFL is going to have the right to license a concessionaire, which will be subject to the village's approval, and we will have the ability to approve that concessionaire agreement and the particulars of revenue splits and build-outs and all of that at a future date?

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yep.

No.

Do we need to take a vote on it?

No.

She got the direction she needed and I got to be on the record the way I needed.

I think you would like to see a floor plan to see the flow and concepts when you come back. So you can visualize it.

Also on this list and part of what we wanted to do today is do some rumor control, right? And so I know that there have been various discussions out in the community about what the rooftop is going to be used for. And different things have gotten back to me. So Number one, during our last meeting at my office, we confirmed that there is currently no one pursuing building out the third floor for sales office space or anything like that. So I wanted to spell that. The other rumor that was out there was that the rooftop was either not going to be built at all. or that if it was going to be built, that there was an interest in having a very large-scale type restaurant. Neither of those things have been confirmed. In fact, they've been vehemently denied by our partners at PFL. But as part of that discussion and piggybacking off of the concession on the ground floor, I'm going to skip the second and third floors for now, just to finish the discussion about the concession. But as to the third floor, is there any interest in having concession space on the rooftop? And part of that discussion was because right now, what is in these four agreements is a very lush, I think, Gus, you described it as the Amazon of rooftops. Beautiful, lush landscaping. But from a practical perspective, that may not be practical, right? You may not be able to maintain that type of landscaping on this rooftop. And that maintenance will be, as the agreements stand right now, it will be up to the village to maintain it. So one discussion point is what that rooftop is really going to look like. And two, from a landscape perspective. And number two, three points. When that will be completed, and Gus can address why that is a concern. So maintenance, what the look is, when it'll be done. And then third, do you want to have... any space for that concessionaire who's from the ground floor to be able to do some operations on the rooftop. With the thought process being that if you, as your community, wants to have rooftop space for a meeting, an event at night, whatever the case may be, do you want kitchen area and prep space for a concessionaire?

May I? The original concept of the rooftop First of all, was the mayor's, when she was mayor. And the lush garden, I can understand the upkeep of it. But there still has to be a garden that will create some sort of shade structure. Never has it been our intent to have the concessionaire or a different concessionaire in the rooftop with an open restaurant, for calling it such restaurant or whatever you want to call it, concession up on the third floor serving food. You can get a coffee and a piece of pastry, whatever, and you can take it upstairs if you want to go to the rooftop to relax. That's a different story. But we do not want... Never was it intended to have a kitchen. If you do a kitchen or a warming station or whatever you want to call it on the rooftop of your cutting space.

I agree with that. Plus, I mean, we're going to have a concessionaire on the first floor can just walk it upstairs.

And there will be an elevator also. So in the event that you want to do a catered event up there, even something like ordering from Rossoy for a meeting, we would have a cart downstairs and you could easily transport up to the third floor in that elevator.

Well, in any common space... residential mainly you have access to some type of kitchen because there's going to be you know gatherings and you're going to need to wash your hands you're going to need to serve the food you're going to need to warm it up at some point so yeah we should have something this is not necessarily a kitchen but it's your most basic standard in any building that has a patio has an area of a community area it's been if it's a tiny little room that has a sink it has a little area for you to that area could be on the third floor normally it should be right when you're serving the food you don't walk around with your trays of food I don't know that we're building this out as an event space per se I mean a party it doesn't take a party for you to have two or three people warming up food I mean we're not talking about people bringing out a lunch and say let's go up there like a patio would be like a park where you don't have a kitchen, but a small, it doesn't take much to have. And I'm just thinking of the future of the space, just like, you know, Commissioner Trubani mentioned, it's the future of the space and news.

It takes plumbing to build up. I understand.

Yeah, that's going to have costs. I get it, but we're talking about, do you only get to build a community center once?

I do have a technical question on the plumbing issue because that ties into the landscaping. So if Gus could just briefly address the irrigation and plumbing.

From my experience, when you have a rooftop with natural plants. It's a big, big issue after two years, all disappear, all the people is, and the people that need to maintain that, it's a disaster. Even because you have to have also all the piping on the roof, and we know the weather in Miami, okay?

Salt air too.

It's going to be a big issue. The roof itself, it has to be well maintained that the normal roof, the leaks that can be there, um and also of course the maintenance so in my my suggestion again is a suggestion um if you want to have some green probably is the the i see the plants there okay because um i think it's just correct me if i'm wrong but there are around 1200 square feet of uh rooftop in the in the agreement something like that you mentioned last time or something like that i don't remember

Have we looked at innovative rainwater capture irrigation systems for the roof?

Yes, you can do, but it's a little expensive. But anyway, even if you have that, the normal maintenance it's going to be more aggressive than the normal roof if you don't have. So my suggestion, again, it's my suggestion, in my experience, is to have all the green area with astroturf. And you can put some planters with artificial nice plants to have the look.

Absolutely not.

Or some planters with natural plants that... You can do the reaction manually. There are many plants that you don't need a lot of water.

We should see what Space01 is doing with their landscaping on their rooftop, because it's excellent. Who's paying for the landscape?

So the original, the build for the rooftop is, as the agreement currently stands, with PFL. but I think the concern is the maintenance after those two years.

Right. I'm not worried about us being able to maintain a lush rooftop. We have the best public works team in town. I'm not worried about us being able to maintain it. It was in the site plan. It was what sold me on voting for this site plan approval. When I talk to residents about what this building is going to offer, this rooftop garden space is, if you're not a soccer person, this rooftop garden is what you're super excited about. And I expect it to be built. And the irrigation needs to be provided. If we're doing plants and planters, we should obviously be looking at what is salt tolerant, what is drought tolerant, what is going to work in this neighborhood, all of those things. Of course it exists. You know, I mean, there are things that could be planted there that would take very, very little maintenance. There are trellises that could be installed. The shade structures like Commissioner Trevone mentioned. I mean, that was all part of my expectation when we approved the site plan with the rooftop garden. And, you know, the idea that we would do anything artificial is I just, yeah, we don't, we wouldn't do that. And I don't necessarily know that we want to have AstroTurf up there because I just would be really nervous about what the water ponding could potentially do with the roof. I mean, I think the drainage up there needs to be particularly thoughtful to make sure that the roof lasts as long as possible. Yeah.

you will see that I don't remember again from the top of my head the square footage of the places where it's going to be some tables or chairs but all the balance of the rooftop is astroturf with a pitch plus the landscaping except the areas where it's going to be flat that is going to be for the chairs and the tables but the The flooring for the balance where it's going to be landscaping is going to be astroturf. You cannot put a natural turf there.

Yeah, but you can do things in low planters.

I don't think when we said- I'm talking about how to cover. If not, you're going to see the TPO, basically the membrane from the roof to cover this. let's let's difference what is the the landscaping if you see there I don't know how you have here if you just just you have you have plants uh on the on the parapet but in the other in the other places if you see if you see that what is the light green for I don't see it well this is this is turf you see all the the light green

Yeah, I mean, what those renderings show is really lush tropical planting.

Correct.

What the terrace floor plan shows, it says green roof, artificial turf, pedestal system, turf grade or approved equal, artificial turf, artificial turf.

Exactly.

So I... But it's the floor plan. I guess it's not a planting plan, but I would never have said, sure, just cover the roof in artificial turf. I mean, we set a green roof. That meant we wanted it to be alive. We wanted plantings. I'm sure there's a way to design this rooftop a more reasonable way.

Yeah, they are replacement to grass. Like I said, the peanut flower is a replacement to grass.

Yeah.

You can step on it. It doesn't grow. It's much lighter than regular grass. It requires less maintenance. The little peanut flower is like a brown leaf. I'm not an expert. It's a Florida plant also. We have it on the mediums here.

It's called Jamaica peanut. Is it Jamaica peanut?

Yeah. It doesn't grow. It's the best, to me, replacement from grass field.

Yeah. The rendering is really pretty, but I just... We thought it was alive. Right. We thought it was alive. What you're showing, I just... Yeah, there's a disconnect. Yes.

But there could just be several large potters with live plants inside of them, no? I mean, you could still have artificial turf instead of having pavement on the roof, you know? It's just a flooring.

Now it's a balcony.

You have to have the roof membrane to make it watertight.

Obviously, a habitable roof has to have a floor. There's no question that a habitable roof has to have a floor. But there's a difference between it being walkways or tiled or some other type of pervious paper with a drainage system than just covering it in astroturf. I mean, sure, maybe there's a reasonable little area where you want to have astroturf so somebody could do yoga or, you know, lay down a blanket. But certainly not the entire space.

Mm-hmm.

I would want a breakdown of maintenance and replacement costs because I just also want us to be realistic about those costs moving forward. I would love a lush garden as well. It would be great with live grass and irrigation up there and everything. But if the maintenance costs are really exorbitant annually, that's something I'd like to know.

I actually would discourage the use of live grass. Maintenance for live grass is going to be really a pain in the butt. I would say, again, like in select places where it might make sense to have some astroturf, but otherwise having planters and like grasses to make a peanut, like other things that grow sort of like in a covering manner, there are ways to do that. But I don't want to cover the whole thing in AstroTurf.

Okay. I like Commissioner Dahl's idea too.

So I just wanted to bring back one item. So one of the discussions we were having the other day was Gus suggested we don't need to know now what use you want the North Bay Village wants to give the rooftop, but he can also leave it kitchen ready, like a rough, if in the future you decide you wanna add on like the bathroom, a heating area, water, at least have the connection up to the rooftop for North Bay Village to decide in the future, if they see that there's less use than expected and you wanna transform it into maybe an event space, At least you have it ready and then you just have to come in. So he just wanted to throw it out there for him to know if the commission wants those roughs put there just in case for future use.

You want to get this once.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. It's just thinking in the future. It's super expensive.

Right. So you don't have to break everything to redo it. Now with the construction, it's not... Correct.

We know we're going to need mechanical and electrical up there anyway, right? Because we're going to have Wi-Fi and maybe there will be fans. And there's obviously an elevator running up there. So mechanical, electrical. I think the question is, do we want to wrap in plumbing? Sure.

You're going to need some sort of plumbing to order whatever you have up there. Correct. So you need water. And you do have the elevators. Bathrooms are on the third floor. They need to use the bathrooms.

Yeah, I think the question is, do they wrap in another line for potentially sinks or electrical for an oven or a microwave or something?

I'm not sure the cost of that is not very high.

No. Correct. That's why I brought it up.

You can't have the water without having the drainage. So you're going to have to look into the sewer line. So you're going to have to stub up for sewer and water.

Gus, do you have a landscape architect consulting on the rooftop?

The only consultant that we didn't change from the original was the landscaper that I think is a good person, is a good designer.

Who is your landscaper?

It was Jaime is the name. I think it's in the plans. No, no, no. Let me check. I don't remember the... What company? Let me check. I will tell you right now. Mayor Landscapes is the name of the... What is that again? Mayor Landscapes. Mayor Landscapes.

So what is your landscape architect advising for the roof?

Basically, I think he did this. It would have been great to have him here. Where is he located? don't know let me check because it's the only consultant that basically i i heritage from the original plans i'm surprised we don't have our city planner here give us a little help i don't know where it's located but i i can't find out yeah i would love to know well i'm okay with the weapon plumbing i just don't want a whole kitchen set up there just yeah

Yeah, I agree with that. And again, the rooftop garden that was illustrated in the site plan approval looks like this. And that's essentially what my expectation is. The point that we will be responsible for maintaining this going forward is very well taken to me, which is why similarly to how we're going to be getting another pass at the floor plan, I'd like to see something a little bit more concrete about the rooftop garden.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, this looks like, you know, wooden decking with heavily landscaped areas, peaceful places to sit, you know.

What about the lighting to a night? How will it be lit?

It's going to be lit up there.

Yeah. I see daytime light there. I don't see nighttime.

I had to talk to the electrical engineer to see what is the best because you have photometrics for the outside. It's not so easy and simple. Basically, there are a lot of codes that allow you a certain amount of... humans yeah so for this full candles correct it'd be good to see because uh like right now winter 5 p.m is getting dark already for us and yeah i know i know okay i will talk to the electrical engineer to see lighting to to see what is the the best and nice type of illumination

Yeah, I mean, it would be great to have the information and also the landscape architect to provide a list of the plantings that they're planning to put on, what plants they're planning to.

Basically, he created it, so I can ask him. He should have it. Yeah, for sure.

That would be great. I would like to have that listed. Yeah. It's actually.

Yeah, I thought it was provided. yeah so you know i think i i hope i hope we're all in agreement that we would like to see the rooftop look as close to as it did in the renderings as possible

What's on the screen now is from the actual agreement. So you've got the wood deck, the semi-covered area, green roof. And then I think if I got to the right place. So here's your tree disposition list and your plant schedule. I think this is all for ground. Yeah. And these are all the general plans for the street level. Yeah. Not rooftop level. That we don't have. Okay. So the consensus over on the rooftop is you want updated landscape plans with the list of plans.

Lighting.

Yeah, the way that the terrace floor plan is presented in the permit set is inconsistent with what we approved on the site plan. So I'd like to see a revised version that is more consistent with the site plan, particularly the idea that the entire roof, aside from the walkways, is going to be turf. That's not what we agreed to.

And we put in the rough and plumbing. The rough and plumbing, more specific rooftop layout and lighting.

Yes. Thank you.

Go ahead. Fabian, one of the things that we had discussed during our meeting was the timing for the construction of that rooftop area. I think PFL has a request that that be completed at some future point.

Yes, they were asking if they could postpone the full build-out for a year or maybe a little less than a year, maybe six months due to the cost elevation of the project to see if they can postpone the final build-out of the rooftop.

So in other words, you intend to have the building complete by June? And then the roof you're seeking to get that completed by. End of year. End of year.

I don't have an understanding of the construction phases and schedules neither. So it's a little tough to think about extending when I'm not sure I'm clear on the phases right now. Do we have a schedule of the phases of construction? Because I know there was a delay now.

And they're trying to make up that time. But what they're talking about is structurally be completed. The interior would be completed. And the rooftop installation would be later.

Question for you, gentlemen. World Cup is in April, right?

June. Mid-June.

Mid-June. Okay. So you need to have at least the facade, the outside of the building, and the ground floor ready by June. Correct. Will the second and third floor be available by the end of June?

Yeah. I think the whole interior is done. The whole interior. The whole interior. Everything is done. It's just the build out of the rooftop.

Okay. I just want to make sure that we have our timelines.

Yeah. We have pressure coming from all around us that it has to be done before June.

No, no, no.

The building has to be completely like the structure, everything on the outside and inside should be done. Yeah.

I need a commitment that no more work without permits on this project.

Well, that's why I was asking about the phases of construction because of that. I mean, my phone hasn't stopped ringing because of those issues with the signage posted in front of the property.

I understand. Basically, we have the full permit now. So there are no more permits that can be. And we have also the full permit from the school board. So basically, our intention is to try to finish everything by mid-June, but For sure, the building has to be done and all the indalium has to be done and the big soccer field on the Thais area. Probably, depending on the rain, depending on the weather, there are a couple of things that will remain for Thais for one month or two months more after June. But the building itself and all the area with the paddle court and all this has to be done and the soccer field, the big soccer field.

And paddle and pickle, I guess, right? Pickleball.

Paddle, yeah. This that you see in the plants now.

And then you mentioned the fields. What is your timeline with the fields?

The big field has to be done. Our intention is to try to finish this by April, if we can, because it's going to be people to come, selection or whatever, to come to practice.

And then you have the other fields, right?

We have another, sorry, soccer five, sorry, small ones. We will try to finish that, but this is not our main now.

So is that also one of those things that will be delayed until the end of the year?

Sorry, it's not five small fields. It's five v. five fields.

What is that?

It's five versus five. I'm sorry, what? It's five versus five. Five versus five.

Five versus five.

Yeah, not five fields. So those will be finished? I think it's four small fields. Yeah, one large.

And those you would imagine will be done after June then?

As quickly as possible, but realistically, it seems like the four smaller fields may take a month or two extra beyond June.

August.

What is the elevation of the fields?

I don't remember at the top of my head what is the elevation that for fraud, basically. In Miami, I think it's seven, if I'm not mistaken.

That would be good to know.

All the calculations were approved, so I can tell you later, but I don't remember at the top of my head.

That would be good to know, elevation.

But anyway, we are doing it and we are doing right now, we are doing a big drainage system because basically I think it's a big concern here in the sea, not Florida, but here more. So the drainage system is a it's a big a big point of the of galleon and dice we are doing some uh well wells for right four wells four wells that are going to drain mainly all the all the the water basically this was was delayed the permit approval by them until they they approve all the calculation and everything what about that area behind the the basketball courts because i

woke up to find out that the basketball courts now are unusable. And I didn't realize you were touching that area at all.

Can we stay with this building and finish with the stuff in the building? Sure.

Anything else about the building?

So on the last point about the rooftop and the time for completion, Chad did remind me that in our agreements, we already have a deadline for the development and it's 36 months from final approval of the site plans by the village. So by my calculations, we approved the site plan May 14th, 2024. So they have until May 14th, 2027 to complete. So I think that sounds like your timeline you're within that timeline. already please don't take until may 2027 though please no we won't thank you for answering that question for us um okay on the building we talked about the rooftop um all right going back to the second floor and i don't know if janiece is around she's back you're back there perfect um So the second floor, I'm gonna toggle between screens here. So in the documents that you have in front of you, you have the layout for the second floor. Correct. And I am gonna put up on my screen, and I'm sorry that I don't have a copy of it for you in paper, but the second floor that you approved is here. I realize it's pretty small on the screen, but it's basically all open space, public bathrooms for men and women, small storage space. You've got your elevator and stairwells. But the concept was you were going to have a full second floor of just community center area. For those who may be wondering the same thing that we were asking ourselves, you see on the right hand side, it says community center, 3,400 square feet. And on the left, it said, SUM sum, 1,430 square feet. That was, that was written down. Uso, multi, multipurpose use area yeah it was a language change there so concept being it's it's not an office where it says some it just it was all open space then you have the plans that you have in front of you the paper version And so what you obviously see there on the left hand side is that now next to the women's and men's restrooms on the left top corner, you've got an office, then you have another office. And then what looks to be like a conference room style office, and then some storage space. This is the approved building set, right?

That's correct.

So the question is, You've now added a third floor that is supposed to be for the village's use as well. So do you leave this office space on the second floor? Do you eliminate it? And where Janice comes in, there are DCF requirements that if you intend to utilize the second floor for, for example, I think it's the YMCA program. and others similar to it, it needs to be built out a certain way. And so that's why we need to make a decision now. I don't know if Gus, if you can speak more to this point or if Janice, if you want to come up and speak to it or Frank. Obviously, this is different from what you approved on the site plan, so we wanted to discuss it.

Right. This is the office area that was requested during discussion periods before these plans were finally adopted. If there was an understanding that this office would be provided for the use of AFA.

I mean, that's the issue. And Chad, before we get into the particulars, Chad, can you give us some background on those negotiations?

So originally, there was always discussion that there would be an office on the ground floor to deal with the programming and just over the Patel courts and the scheduling and everything else. And there was discussions to the extent that AFA was coming to manage the project, since they are the developer here, that they would occupy that space also. Subsequent to that, there was a proposal to do similar to what you see here, which was a substantial office on the second floor, which the manager at the time said that we're not proceeding with that. So that was removed. It was contemplated that if the village ever wanted to allow for an office in this space, that this would come by separate agreement. It can't be a lease unless it's a yearly lease because of your charter, or you could go to a referendum. But it was an option to be left to a different time. So the PFL folks are coming back. They would like to have an office space here. We might have to deal with some zoning issues also. But that's the genesis of this concept. I know Fabian might disagree with me, but that's my recollection of what occurred.

Just to clarify, the we always spoke with the previous manager, mayor, and some of you about AFA needing one office, either on the second floor or third floor. The building kept on going up and down. They've always said they needed an office space. This office space designed here, which occupies that whole side of the building, that's a no-go. We spoke to them and said, you have to be realistic. You don't need a conference room and Two offices. So they agreed that they only needed an 800 square foot office and that's it. So this can be discarded as it appears on the plan. Okay. So all they were looking for is an 800 square foot office.

Now, the idea would be... What's the total square footage of the footprint on the third floor?

6,500 more or less.

6,500.

The 800-square-foot office is roughly the space of both offices together, roughly.

Sorry, I can't see very well.

It's 331 and 327, and they connect, and there's a little hallway in between them. I don't even know how much. 14, another 14 feet. Yeah, more or less.

That's 700 feet.

Yeah.

They were saying 20 by 40 is 800 square feet.

That's more than 10% of the gross floor area for this community center.

Look, I have sat on this dais through the negotiations of these operating agreements and the construction and management agreement. I was sitting on this dais when we approved the site plan. I don't recall... us ever making a commitment to there being office space. I think there was always disagreement on the dais about whether or not that was even appropriate. And I'll share with you guys, you know, I'm trying to be as pragmatic as I can possibly be because I want this project to be built. I want it to be open and I want people to be able to use it. But the idea that we would reserve precious square footage in a community center building in the heart of our residential and institutional little corner of our village, that we would have a private office for a foreign entity, um just is is completely incompatible with what i understand a community center to be for um i think that 100 of this building you know the ground floor is going to be totally activated for both use by the residents and and private you know for-profit revenue streams that obviously pfl and north bay village we we want and we want them to have that but reserving space for a private organization a private individual i think that it's a line i'm not willing to cross because once we cross it everything else becomes gray in the future we can start issuing all kinds of licenses and anybody can just ask us can we get licensed some space in in your community building you know and i i just i that's a level of of of conflicting interests that I'm not prepared to cross.

I mean... I hear you. I don't think it's just anyone. We're not opening this up and saying, who wants an office? It was a joint use with AFA, and they're investing a lot of money to see this project happen.

But it's actually not AFA, Commissioner. It's not. Right. Our partnership is with Project Football LLC, and there's not a single managing member of Project Football LLC who is also a managing member of AFA. I think we need to stop talking about this as if Lionel Messi is going to be working from a laptop in that building. It is not the Argentine Football Association that's going to use that space. It is going to be one of these private developers, and I find that inappropriate.

Where I disagree is that it's the person that's putting the money up. AFA's not necessarily putting the money up. It is PFL who's putting the money up for this. when we subcontracted with PFL, it's PFL, the contractors, the developers who is putting the money up in the offices for PFL. I'd like to see the office space more, and I'd like to see how we can do it legally. Cause we had that conversation and we licensed it. It's only free. We have to relicense it every year.

No. Well, it would know that it would be a lease, which would be every year, unless there's a referendum. Cause part of what, um, think pfl would like is to have exclusivity of that space so as opposed to a license it would be a lease hold interest which under our charter would require it to be yearly unless there's a referendum now there's other office spaces nearby the the idea here is that um first to clarify uh pfo is a licensee of afa um

So the PFL is the one that's putting up the money for the construction of the whole project or their portion of the whole project. And they needed a space on either second or third floor, whatever you agree to, not only for PFL, but also the AFA president said that whenever he's in town for, and he comes often because of the World Cup being here, and then there's going to be the Women's World Cup, and there's certain other projects for FIFA that are occurring in, in the US he would like to have a space where he can also come so you know the idea is that since they are involved in this whole project and the development they wanted an office space in this building as well besides the operating one that's you know to make sure that the areas are cleaned the people who rented the space the the paddle courts or the fields are there and the person can go in and out of the building to make sure everybody's respecting the rules of of the fields and cleaning up and leaving at the time they're supposed to leave so the next people come in so that's why you see the the ground space but then that's why they wanted a second or third floor just for general administration it makes total sense maybe they want to build out a third floor entirely and we can talk about space there

I just don't see really the upper, the fact that there's an office space. We have other office spaces nearby. So they can just check out their property and make sure things are run out the proper way.

But that's not even what it's going to be used for. I mean, you know, there are offices on the ground floor for maintenance and making sure that the rules are enforced and that people are sticking to the schedules for what they've signed up for. Like that's the ground floor offices. This is like an executive office. Somebody is going to be doing business from this location. And we do have zoning issues. The underlying land use does not allow for commercial use.

We would also have to address property tax issues also because once this private use would come in, the property could potentially become taxable. So we have a couple of different options legally to deal with that. Either you create a condominium form of ownership for the building, which governments do from time to time, or you would do what they call a vertical subdivision, which is a newer concept. But we would have to address that in any future documents. What's agreed upon in the contract? We don't have anything in the contract. The contract as it stands today is silent as to office. The original agreement had referenced that there could be office by separate agreement, I believe. But it's not included in the now binding agreement.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Didn't the original agreement also include three floors and a wider footprint? Yes. And they lowered it in the footprint size and width, and they lowered it in size. That's when they lost total office space.

Well, no. It was just contemplated as it was left to be discussed at a separate time. Okay. It wasn't, I don't recall if it was actually articulated on the plans in the detail like you have here. And I know for sure when we were going through these discussions that this was not agreed to by the manager at the time. And I don't think it's agreed to by them either. They said that they would only want 800 square feet. I remember I was involved in this from the beginning as well.

And I remember that it was a three-story building. We lost a third of the width of the building. And in order for us to get a third floor, we paid for the third floor. And now they're asking for us to keep on giving back. Now the rooftop is not going to be as lush. The ground floor is now going to go back into a cafeteria with two offices for their staff as well. How much are we going to be giving in to this because we want a third floor? That's what I'm concerned about.

Well, I think there's a threshold question. Do you want to allow for the office or not?

Not like this at this point.

Well, they're proposing an 800 square foot office, not this. This is not what they're proposing.

Just to clear it up. So it's one office. It's not what's here.

It's not what's here. They're proposing 800 square feet. Now, it couldn't be, I don't believe, on the second floor because of DCF issues that we were talking about. So it would be on the third floor, right? And then I think that as part of the arrangement, I'm sure, all of the third floors are, they would agree to build out their portion of the space, correct?

Yeah, so if you look at the original exhibits to the agreement, there was supposed to be a, I think it was 2,400 square foot community center on the second floor, not just a big open space. And So now it's being proposed to change it to something that needs to comply with DCF, which I'm not an expert in DCF, but I'm told that no one that doesn't have clearance as an adult can be on the second floor. Okay. So therefore, we would scrap completely any office discussion on the second floor. It becomes open to only this new DCF operation. So then the only natural space would be to do it on the third floor. Now, obviously, if we are granted the opportunity to build the office, it's on PFL's dime. They will pay for the build out of the office. And then obviously, one of the bathrooms has to be built out. It would be paid for by them as well. because you need to have a bathroom and you need to have an office space. So they would have to pay for that build-out.

As the contract exists today, PFL is responsible for the build-out of the second floor as it's drawn in the site plan. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. yeah that that's what should happen the second floor should be built out according to the site plan and the third floor should be our responsibility i don't i don't see a need for us to go through the the zoning and land use hurdles of legalizing this an annual lease negotiation over an 800 square foot office space, explaining to our neighbors how this ended up this way, pushing back on other private sector interests until the end of time on why they can't also have an office space in our public facilities.

um and the and the tax issue as well i mean it just i don't understand the upside for our village let me point out that the plans that have been approved and permitted have this floor space in it as it is with the understanding that if the commission did not approve keeping this as it is or modifying it whatever we'll do a revision and put it back in and we'll put it exactly like the site plan or whatever you may approve. That's why I didn't want to stop the plans going through so we could keep building.

I appreciate you actually bringing that up. It's an opportunity for me to state for the record that I actually find it slightly troubling that permits were issued for floor plans inconsistent with what was approved at site plan approval. It makes me skeptical or nervous at best that as our other private developments around the village are going through their permit review, are we making sure that those plans are consistent with the site plans that are approved by this commission? Because I would really hate to be in a situation where something gets built inconsistent with the site plan and it causes a problem. We're spending a lot of time reviewing these site plans in quite granular detail. So let's make sure.

Understood.

Thank you. doesn't the an answer to your statement isn't that up to the building official when he's reviewing the building it's it's it's right it's some it's zoning but it's zoning's review zoning zoning and planning reviews We don't technically have a separate planning department, but you know what I mean, right? They review all of the construction documents that are submitted for building permits.

And they go back and review the actual building to match the site plan.

They are supposed to. Yes. Obviously, in this scenario, it wasn't done the right way.

Well, in this scenario, we haven't reached that building's...

place for them to no yes they have a full master building permit these were these were approved there was a master building permit issued to build this building with these specs now that's correct with these four offices they are on the second floor yes that's what he just said should never have been approved inconsistent with the site plan

If I may add, in a recent meeting, we had agreed to eliminate the word office space, and it was going to be signed on the plan so that it wouldn't be office space. It would just have the walls for now. But the site plan also, the one that's approved in the agreement, only call for a second floor. So there wouldn't be a third floor. There wouldn't be the build outs required for DCF and all that. It would just be a basic small 2400 square foot community center. And that's it. That's why, unfortunately, I understand where you're coming from. There's been things that had to be adjusted because of the third floor and all that that was put in.

My comment was not about you or Gustavo. That was an internal feedback moment.

Yeah. Right. I think it's... clear that when we had the amendment that came before the commission in July, that's where the discussion of the third floor was put in and the concessionary is put in. And that document has never been executed. So we're now at the point of where do we go from here? Do we modify that and come back to the commission with what we did the first time. But there's no question that I didn't wanna stop the horse from moving out of the barn any further. So we'd have this meeting and then decision would be made on what's gonna happen with that office space. And as Fabian points out, we could, You could leave that. You could have it built out as it is for our use or whatever use we would want. It doesn't have to be a conference room. It could be classrooms. It could be whatever. Or we take this out. We do a revision because it doesn't stop them from moving what they're doing now. And we do a revision and it goes back to exactly what was shown there with the bathrooms and that's it.

As far as the location of... you know the layout of the walls i don't i don't have an issue of of a you know half the space being broken down into the individual rooms i mean that's where you get your music your room your computer lab your whatever um there are large rooms yeah yeah they are large rooms i mean i don't the usability there now it's a difference right it's better to have the open space and redistributed to more things than those three large rooms Yeah, potentially. I don't know.

And then the DCF issues come up, Janice. So let's clear that up a little bit. So down the road...

down the road if we want to let's say start um our own after aftercare or summer camp program operating out of here or even if the y is in here there's particular dcf requirements that they'll come in and inspect the site and best you definitely need a shower in the bathroom i can't see from here if that's in there or not and before that the kids are are going to be functioning out of and best practice so it's not a requirement is that if you do have classrooms that you have glass it doesn't all have to be glass but that it's visible so that you don't have kids in enclosed rooms and so there's just certain things like that that are best practice and the the main requirement is that there is a shower and also There should be a level of security on that floor where you don't have people coming in and out from the public that are not leveled to the background screens and are not at that level because they could be interacting with children or a vulnerable population. So that's in general what DCF requires.

And to clarify, the permit set, which is what you all have in front of you and what's on the screen, does not have a shower as of right now. It just has regular restrooms.

But we've had that discussion with Gus, and we can put a shower in.

Yes, at this moment, basically this, and I appreciate this meeting because it's going to be important to, because windows, showers, plumbing, all is going to be in the next weeks. So it's very important to confirm what is going to be built. If not, it's going to be changed shortest and timeline and really nobody wants that. So it's very important if you want to do this program, we have to work very fast with her and with you, Frank, to understand the program, to put in the plans for the resubmission of that.

I have a question in reference to the DCF requirements, because now how would that affect the yoga space or other spaces for adults to do exercise in that area?

I mean, that was what I thought was the use of the third floor.

But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

As long as you have a secure area where the children are kept, you may have to end up dividing a portion of the adults go in one area and the children go to the other area.

Another reason why those rooms are very important. yeah to redistribute yeah it's not just into a lobby section yeah you just can't have all the kids running around in an open space with people from the public coming in and out and it's also the only space for adults to use now for a while because we don't have any money coming soon to do a third floor for seniors, for, you know, so many different reasons. So something to really consider how we're going to redistribute the space. It should really be like a half-half, if it's possible, access with almost like a lobby or hallway in the middle where you go right to go to the common areas. We've talked about that.

And then these offices would come out.

Yes, they have to.

Well, that's...

In order to make it work, I'm just saying, like, you know, how many people can you fit in, you know?

Well, I'm not completely opposed to the offices. How about building them out on the third floor and paying for the share of office space that's there? Is that possible?

for us to build the 800 square foot on the third floor and one of the bathrooms yeah that's fine but then like to pay for the cost of that third floor the full third floor we would only be building out the office space the bathroom and obviously the lobby no I understand that's what you guys said we're saying

I mean, even though there's a lot of issues even to consider, a lot, I understand, but that's what I had started saying. You know, like if you're looking into giving something that really is meaningful to the community, meaning give us a complete third floor now that we can have the adult use their mixed space. And then, I mean, 800 square foot is an apartment. It's a one bedroom apartment. It's not a little office.

What's the smallest you can do for an office? That you are authorized to answer.

800 square feet? I just have to go back. I can't speak on the client's behalf. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I can't speak on their behalf.

Gus, you jump in if I'm incorrect. The only additional build-out that would be required is to finish the ceiling and the AC outlets.

Really?

on the third floor designer ready basically because the walls will be already dry well the windows will be in in the in the third floor

If we do the offices, basically, we have to do the drywall, electrical, illumination, bathroom. Flooring. And flooring. Because basically, fire spring. Sorry. Go ahead. Because all the life safety has to be done, even if you do the or not, because we need the TCO. So basically, it's the build-up.

What I was suggesting was contributing to the construction of the third floor, which was 1.6 million, right? Or 1.6 to 2 million?

2 point something.

That's going up.

That makes more sense. And even then, it's still a big if because there's the tax issues, zoning issues.

Yeah, so from the commercial point, I can't answer that. No, I understand that.

We're throwing it out in the universe.

Okay.

We've spent about $1.8 million on the environmental cleanup of the site. And we would have had to clean up the site no matter what in any redevelopment scenario with or without Project Football. So of course we had to spend that money. But it is $1.7, $1.8 million that we didn't budget. And that we hadn't planned for, but more importantly, it represents the investment that the residents are making in this building. It's their money that we're spending to clean up the site so that we can create a community center for them. And I just, you know, I'm not... I'm not comfortable explaining to people where their tax dollars went and then at the same time explaining that there's 800 square feet of office space reserved for the developer.

And it's way more than 1.5, the investment that we're already putting into.

Well, I asked Frank to put together the numbers on the environmental cleanup alone. And so that's where the 1.7, 1.8 comes from.

Yeah, it's a fraction of the money. It's the things that we're going to be spending money on still.

We've spent money on.

Yeah. And there's more to come.

We are still in the process of that figure includes the potential we have in front of us because it all hadn't been paid yet. But it's all been obligated. We have approved work orders with Kenley Horn and with Chen Diesel to do that work. So we will eventually... spend a greater portion of that to complete.

But I would say as far as the third floor, I think the general question here is, do we divide the square footage? Do we eliminate the offices completely?

You're talking about the second floor.

The second floor. I'm sorry. As far as the second floor, we're right now trying to figure it out. We have two needs here. The community need, the YMCA or any child need. And that I think leaves out the office spaces that we have marked here.

I think the consensus where I think this is going is The second floor is fully for the village.

Yeah.

Set up, DCF standards, leave a space for adults, leave a space for children. That's the second floor. The third floor and add the shower.

Yes, the shower.

On the third floor, there's an open question of whether the village decides to allow AFA, PFL, Riversea to have 800 square feet of office built at PFL's expense, where otherwise the village would be paying for the full cost of the third floor.

Correct.

Yep. No. The 800 square foot office space is one third of the floor. Yeah. Roughly.

I think the biggest issue is business. But there's more offices than that, right?

No, it's just one office for seven.

But I heard there's an office for the president of AFA when it comes to television. They're going to share the office.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what I mean. I mean, he's going to use this a couple times a year.

Once.

Every four years when we don't work on it.

So, I mean, it's not going to be used very much.

It's going to be used by PFL.

It's what we're left with. It's not who's going to use it, but it's the terms.

That's why I was trying to make the office a little bit smaller.

I don't know. Again. Are we talking second floor or third floor now?

Second floor. Our office is only on the third floor. Right.

So now we're moving on to the third floor now. That's what I'm saying.

So let me take a step back. Second floor is just community center as you envisioned it as on the screen. On the screen. And assume that that line down the middle is your half and half. With a shower. With a shower. Got it. Right. At the beginning of this year, you all agreed you wanted a third floor. In July, we came back. We brought an amendment to add to the third floor in the concession space. That first amendment has not been signed. So we don't have plans for the third floor other than the building set, which is what you have in front of you. Now that third floor is what I have on the screen as well. And it's also what you have in front of you. So the question is, It has restrooms, stairwells, elevator, and the idea was, and you see there where my cursor is, that this would just be open office and it's about just under 5,000 square feet, 4,842 square feet of just open space.

I should have plugged in.

I don't know. I think the idea was, remember, you were going to have a shell building area, right?

For that 3rd floor, it was always understood that the 3rd floor would be built out at a later date, similar to how the 7th floor or the 6th floor of city hall is going to be built out at a later date. um so i i i want us to remember that like the additional floor was always a longer term plan um and that we we don't need to make the sacrifices that that they're asking us to make for this office space

I just want to find like a middle ground where, you know, they build the office space and they contribute towards the maybe to build out of the whole floor for our use as well.

I appreciate where you're going, but like, you know, make sure that as you're negotiating this in the event that I'm going to lose this vote ultimately. as as you are negotiating this remember that it is a one-year lease only that it will have to be renegotiated and renewed on an annual basis which creates all kinds of potential issues that remain you know not locked in year after year that there will have to be a property tax resolution to sharing the space And that we will also have to go through a number of quasi-judicial public zoning and land use meetings to legalize a private use on this facility.

And I understand the risk. That's why I brought up if they're willing to do a construction of the entire third floor, it could be a consideration. But I'm not saying yes or no yet. I'm just saying for me to even be open to it, that's why I brought it up to the table. Will they be willing to... uh build out and you know that's expense that we cannot do anytime soon whatsoever but that doesn't mean a yes or no right now and you're right about it we don't have to we really don't i think that we have bigger issues with permits bigger issues with construction deadlines I don't know if he wants to have that office by June.

Let me get a couple of clarifications. When we look at the third floor, it's stubbed up plumbing. There's no bathrooms that are completed. That's correct, right?

It's the minimum to get the TCO. The building is sprinkler. The sprinkler, correct.

So the sprinklers are going to have to be in.

Because it's part of the life safety. Correct.

It's part of the life safety. Right. They have to be in. Correct. So the expense that we would have to use that third floor, even without the bathrooms, but to use the third floor, is we would have to complete the ceiling. Right. And distribute the air, because you're going to have a central drop for the air. Yes.

Also, you will have a sub-panel for electrical, and you need to do all the distribution also. Right. But, I mean, the walls are going to be drywall.

It's not going to be rock walls. The exterior walls.

I don't remember. I don't know if we need this for the TCO. No, I don't remember. I will confirm that. If we need, for sure. If we don't need, no. But also, you will need to do later the electrical distribution, mechanical distribution. But now we're stocked up. Yes, correct. Correct. And five-string is going to be complete. And also, it's going to be a big... duct, basically the air condition is complete.

A main duct feeding the whole area, but it's a whole open area.

Correct.

So we're talking about lighting. Yeah. I mean, to say what we would have to invest to do that third floor is depending on how extensive we wanted to have that space. But we could finish the ceiling and distribute the AC.

It's not going to have flooring, right?

Well, you got a floor, you know.

It's concrete there. It's concrete floor.

What would be the cost of that? Roughly. Estimate.

I would hazard to make a guess at that. But it's not like the finishes. I mean, the most expensive part of doing that third floor would be putting in the bathrooms. Would you agree?

In an apartment, let's say you do 1,000 square foot just the inside of a unit, you're talking about $200,000.

So you're talking about here three times that.

Correct. So that's just to give you a rough estimate of what it will cost.

But that's finishing out rooms and flooring and all of that.

Correct.

And we're talking about an open space.

Well, I don't know.

Well, if we don't listen, the question is, do we do offices or not? If we just get left with the open space. The plumbing will be stubbed up. Sprinkler systems will be in that they have to have for life safety. You have to have it under air so you don't have a mold problem growing up on that. No, the bathrooms are stubbed up. They're not built. No, I understand.

But if we talk about doing the elevators there.

Yeah, the elevators there.

Because they have to go to the roof.

Yeah, the elevator is there, two stairwells are there, all the life safety issues are there.

Frank, sorry, let me, more or less you had to think, depend on the finish that you want, of course, but with the bathroom, with all this stuff, no more than $100 per square feet, no more than that. I'm doing a lot in buildings that I have and renovation. Of course, if you want a great level, it's going to be 150. But no, I don't think that for normal offices, air condition distribution bathroom can be between 90 to 110, no more than that per square feet approximately.

And if we leave the open space, is it possible for us to have event space that we can rent out to make up some of the profit? We cannot rent it out. Okay. I'm just asking.

That's what we're here for. There's an issue with renting out.

I just want to be clear on that distinction. What Commissioner Acosta, I think what you're suggesting is if somebody wants to use the third floor for a birthday party, what's different than leasing an office space?

So we can then make up like do a basic open floor plan and then rent out the space and make up some money to cover the expenses to redo the space eventually. And it provides the neighborhood a venue, which we don't have. We'd have to do the bathroom. No, definitely. It would be an investment. To make money, you have to spend money.

So what are you doing a community center for? You're doing a party room.

Upstairs until you make money. Otherwise, it's just an empty room with nothing.

None of you have a community center?

The community center is on the second floor.

That's for children. Community centers for adults and for old people as well.

But we don't have the money for the third floor. That's what we are here for.

We do have the money for the third floor. Ah, bueno.

Then let's build the third floor. I thought the issue was that we didn't have the money.

Sorry, Commissioner. Just... to put it under the table that if you want to do some parties or events, I don't think that it's not going to be the loading of the slab is going to be enough for that.

Interesting.

This was designed for offices.

Good to know.

When you do a calculation of the shell of the structural engineer, he calculates the amount of people per square feet that is going to be normally approved.

So the fire and life safety is under an office residency as opposed to...

Also can be, I don't know the code exactly. But it's dead load and live load. Correct. So I don't think that the structural for fire probably can be because we have the two stairs and all this. But I don't think that it's going to be the structural enough for an event where you have probably 10 times amount of persons per square feet than the normal offices. So does that have to do with the rooftop? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, I'm talking about the second, the third floor. But in the rooftop, you have...

I would think, why don't we just have the structural engineer come and certify and tell us what can be done? Because it seems to me that... No, the rooftop is...

The rooftop is already designed for that because you have 1,500 square feet for use.

So we can never have a gathering at the community center.

No, no. When you have a band, it's different. Probably in 6,500 square feet, you can fit. What if we want to have a talent show? What if we have a talent show and there are 100 people there?

100 people is one thing, but you have 300 in 6,500 square feet. It's different. Perfect.

Well, I would like to know limits.

Well, I think there's a couple of things. I think one is you're going to have a fire issue. Two, you're going to have a maximum. But I think we should confirm what the structural engineer says the load occupancy can be on that floor.

There's a live load and dead load calculation that's provided. That's what we need.

Thank you.

It just seems odd that you would be able to have it structurally more people higher than in the middle of the building.

And when I was talking about renting the space out for an event, I never imagined 300 people. Anyway, I imagine 100 people.

Oh, you'd be surprised.

No, but we put those limits. This is why we're asking this question. So that we have those limits.

We're going to have the limit and then we'll let you know. The real limit for people.

That sounds like we just did a little clarification on the load limits and those things.

Yeah. That's what we're here for.

Well, anyways, back to the original conversation about the offices, the floors. I hear the concerns about the lease, the taxes, but I've also heard from our attorneys that this sounds like this can be something that could be remedied.

We can address the property tax issue, yes.

And we can probably address the lease issue as well, I imagine, in one of our commission meetings and discuss that directly.

The lease issue is something that's by charter. It's going to be yearly unless you do a referendum.

And we have to make it worth it for us to run that risk and expense and headache of every year. That's why I really think that is a conversation you should bring back.

We can discuss it. I just want to, again, try and find a middle ground or resolution, because if we go back to you and we say just no, how does that impact the project and the timelines?

Not to the office, which is kind of like what we're saying.

I was trying to write down.

My question was, I'm trying to find a resolution that works for everybody. If we came back and said just no to everything, to the offices and all that, how does that impact the project and the timelines?

Well, if you don't build the office, it's less time building it out. It is a... a sore spot from my client's perspective, a big sore spot. They definitely need that office space. So I don't know what they're gonna respond to that. To be honest with you, I have no idea.

That's good to know.

Yes.

Well, I just wanna find a reasonable valuation of that piece of the third floor that can be paid off and that makes sense for both of us.