Town Board - Regular Meeting

hearing and everything go to bond council. How did we have nothing to go to bond council? Okay. So follow workshop number whatever Patty determines it is uh the order at 338. Supervisor Marson is excused and the remainder of the town board is present. First, is there an actual agenda circulated?

Okay. So, first uh agenda, the climate community. So, I just gave you guys an old resolution. Um, I'd like to make a motion to appoint myself as the leader of the climate smart task force, Councilwoman Deal as the other counciloman, and then Ron Mils, Robert Westfall, Elaine O'Neal, Jeffrey Green, Dave Bruno, Jennifer Buseter, and Judy Schmidt as members of the Climate Smart Communities Task Force. force for this calendar year. Second.

Any discussion? We'll get the bronze medal. We got the We just got to keep it. Go get the bronze. Right. All right. Bronze plus. All in favor? I I Any opposed? All right. And Patty, I'll Did you get the names or you want me to chicken scratch them for you? No, I can give them. Do you want my chicken scratch? Is certainly far more legible than mine. Okay. Who was this? Jeff Greenervation. That's when I started writing. Yeah, I got Bruno.

All right. Before we get into the elephant in the room, is there anything else we need just we needed to discuss? Ron was asking me uh he he's got a couple of places to to use um property maintenance lawn and abandoned properties but he was concerned about accounting. I talked to Karen who created a because he doesn't have anything in his budget specifically. So she created with the auditor's advice right a means of in and out for this year and then we'll have to budget for next year. He just wanted to make sure the board was okay with this type of expenditure coming from the general fund but accounted for separately so we know when we're repaid and so on and so forth. Does anyone have an issue? I don't know.

We're just talking process or does he process for process is fine as far as sending anybody out to do it right now? That's a conversation that we'll have that he's getting something ready but he's wondering how do we pay the contract? He talked about grass because I'm not really interested in somebody and angle deep water yesterday. I'm not interested in jamming anybody up right now if they're grass. It's not a grass issue, but um when he's ready to do it, but he just wants to know what that process wise especially. Process wise, we're okay. When he's got it all ready, I will absolutely have it for a discussion at the workshop so that we're all comfortable with how it's going to because that's paid back. Ultimately, it'll either go on taxes or it'll get paid back

comes out of the general fund for the time period for this for this time. So, I don't know that needs a motion. I just want to make sure everyone's I was just tell the rest would be execut just a couple questions. That would be for Peter. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he's still here. So, that will have to just FYI, I'm going to be sending you guys a fencing uh amendment to maybe the fencing law came up with some of the stuff.

Can I send you something to maybe add to it? Sure. I'll Yep. And then uh just so you know what you're seeing is some stuff I that they that we talked to code enforcement about getting changed. It came up when we saw we didn't have a lot of teeth in what you could put up as a fence and uh they wrote they wrote what they'd like to see for changes. I'll send it to you guys. If you guys say good and we'll filter it through what legal but that'll be coming this I had something from a couple of years ago on um fencing and also elevation. Okay. And I'll just try. It didn't go anywhere, so I'll pull it back out. Perfectante.

Okay. I think you're the one who has the most to say about this, so

Oh, no. Yeah, I'll I'll come out. Um, number one, the uh finding out about the town purchasing a 34 of a million dollar piece of equipment without town board approval. I'm not one that's that does not want to see heads roll. I'm I'm done with this town being operated secondhand. We we need spring action on everyone involved and I think we need to find out what Peter is going to recommend for that. I asked them in a text message to tell us what our parameters high to low. Um, I think that if if you look this thing up, I think we should put a at the minimum a pause on the order. Direct direct, don't ask. Direct the engineering department put a pause on the order until this board makes a decision the way forward. Again, I'm voting I'm telling you 100% I will never until we find out that there is this quote uh mystery donator. If that person writes a letter saying he's got this thing covered to end, we just tell the people who are involved in the you know in this poor decision and order it without town board approval. We do go through with those actions and then we move forward and do what you want to do because the money's there. But if the money's not there, I'm I'm not voting to spend $800,000. It's approximately $800,000 of taxpayers money on a two-month splash pad, two and a half month splash pad. Uh, do I think this is what we've been doing for years? We've been trying to get a grant writer, a grant writing company, so we could have shovel ready properties. This does not mean a splash pad's dead. Means it goes on the shelf and we start looking for grants and ways to finish financing it. I don't know what the $400,000 would do if we'll be able to hold that off any longer. I don't know what happens to the grant money. I I don't have a clue. But having a project engineered sitting on a shelf is exactly what grant writers

want. So if the board wants to still do the splash pad, we uh tell Elaine and our new grant writers to start looking for some kind of um grant that would that would finish funding the splash pad and look to the future. But as it stands right now with no funding in line, I think the only course of action for this town board is to suspend the order. Uh because it it will reduce our liability with the situation we've been Well, looking at some of Rhonda's notes, I'll steal her notes, but I saw it. It says it was ordered on the March 6th, March 9th.

March 9th. I reversed the number. I mean, it's it's troubling to me that, you know, we didn't see a series of accounting and where we were at and what's or anything. And if it was ordered, it was also not only engineered and it was engineered, designed, and final sign off on images and what it was going to look like and everything without the board having anything other than an email from engineering saying, "I'm 80% done and I'm going to start the PO." That's it. the only thing we heard about this and last year we saw a little bit of razledazzle on the screen

and then all of a sudden it's on its way and where are you guys coming up with the money because it's ordered I I find that to be a a huge violation of our rules um and extremely disappointing. I don't why why would this been kept a secret almost like on purpose it seems. So I don't know. I mean, the one person that can answer is not here. So, I don't know if anyone had a conversation with the supervisor as to how we got here.

I I got this thing didn't I think I've told most of you guys this before that I was we're spending money going into this. There was never a question from when we got the Miracle League grant to today that there was going to be some Gren Island was going to have to spend something to get that project done. Chunk of it was going to be left. We bonded more for it. But even something is like you said, it's designed, it's engineered. We never determined. We never had a discussion about what we wanted to do, how big we want it to be. You were here I think when Jim Cidito was he's from the Tana Tanawana said yeah it cost him a fortune but they're making money handover foot like that's a conversation that I think we should have had an opportunity to have did we want to maybe we said let's spend $2 million and let's do that because it may be if we do something that big we may be able to generate enough revenue to justify the expenditure but we didn't none of us had any say

opportunity sure

I mean I heard about it most recently in December when it wasn't about the design of the splash pad. It was about the modifications to the bathroom to accommodate the use of the splash pad and that went that portion of it went to the parks and recreation advisory board. Nothing else did. What do we have these for? We're not going to send something as impactful as this. So, the process was far from perfect. But the question we have to figure out is what Dan said, whether we want to scrap this thing now and shove it. And you know, I talked to Peter Godfrey. I think the reality is if we do that in all likelihood we're going to be out the 400 and change that's left on that grant. So where do we find a way? And the numbers that I'm looking at, I don't like the idea of doing this, but we could take, we're looking at $780,000, despite all the numbers that were thrown at us Monday for $780ish,000. We could have a functional splash pad that isn't doesn't have $300,000 worth of extra concrete work. The bathrooms aren't done, but it would function as a splash pad. We could bridge the gap with I talked to Kim. We have $170,000ish dollars in the the Parkland fund which is primarily contributed to by the recreation fees paid by developers when they do that. So we could use that I there's around $100,000 delta if my math is correct between what we have what's remaining in the grant plus what's been bonded for the project. And doing that is able to bridge that gap to get a functional splash pad without hitting the levy for the difference.

It's that $8,000,000 number you're thinking. So, so the 220 is is extra money outside of the grant, but there was a resolution to bond that and I think that is backed up and I was sitting around this table, but it was backed up because we knew we would taxpayers money and% taxpayers money. I got it. That's the beginning of the taxpayers on the hook. But that was taxpayer money that was bonded that way because we knew then that in all likelihood a contribution was going to be necessary from the town to get something more than a sprinkler to call a splash path. I'm going to say that I'm going to call ignorant on this because I was part of the board at the time, but I don't know how we went to bond.

Huh. 23 or 2. No, no. I was with the second the beginning of 24, wasn't it? Yeah. So, because I was I was I was on it when it was August of 24, I think. But by the time you did that, all of the all of the other work was done because that grant came through in 20. But Tom, you know, part of a grant and and part of bonding is having how did we get a bond for a splash project? We had no engineering done. That's part of the bonding. But I mean that's a big butt. Something big hole here

that someone just like wrote splash pad in the last paragraph at the end. I mean is that what happened? We decided to add it after we Oh, yeah. Let's just throw credit money. No, because it was part of the grant. The only reason we bonded is because the Miracle League got the grant. The Miracle League couldn't accept. Peter, if what I say is incorrect, please correct me. Miracle League didn't own the property. Therefore, it had to come through us. So, grant money, all of that. And although the grant was intended for Miracle League, it had to funnel through the town because not the owner of the property, they couldn't do it right. And we borrow we borrow money to pay the vendors. Hang on, Peter. I got to turn you up. Yeah, the grant is a reimbursement thing. Yeah. Can you hear me? All right.

Hang on. And in that we manage it. Right now, we should be able to hear you.

Yeah, that's that's not incorrect, but there's a little bit more. I mean, it was it's our project. I mean, you have to remember, too, Miracle League is is on our land. The whole thing is a town a town project notwithstanding the nonprofit that um is involved with with Miracle League. So, yeah, the the uh we entered into a contract as part of the town did entered into a contract um as part of the grant um program around this project that included a number of elements. One of the elements that the contract says is that the town will build a splash park. It doesn't have specific details and it's, you know, you can talk to engineering for how the numbers are arrived at, but I think that there was a a a an attempt to try to approximate the costs of each of the elements that were part of the the uh the grant uh proceeds and some allocation was made for the uh splash pad. the cost of it went up by uh some amount as well because of a soil condition that was discovered. So I think that the um initial pricing of it or estimates on pricing were for a number of reasons but one of them being the uh soil condition uh a little bit low. So but it's it was a town it's a town grant and town contract uh that that we entered into for that included the splash park

which is another That was six figures. It was It was the grant the grant was 1.1 million, but the

And then the way that this grant works, the money's got to go to the the town um or we've got to first spend it and then we can get reimbursed by it. So the town the bond that the town um uh the bond anticipation was from August 5th uh of 2024 um was intended to finance that and then that was updated to uh I think 1.3 million was the the final uh amount of the bond proceeds because there were some anticipated uh additional expenditures beyond those which were covered under the grant. So, I think when the the bond financing went out, the town board, it looks like was thinking about increasing uh contributing about $200,000 of town money in order to get the, you know, $1.1 million of uh improvements that are paid for under the grant. And I think even that Rhonda going back like we as a board authorize the resolution to do the soil samplings at the proposed site. But did anybody here know that oh yeah we can build there but it's going to cost us another six figures because I I would have liked to have a discussion at that point about well then maybe it ought to go somewhere else. Well, everything that I mean, I'm under the impression as a councilman that when we tell engineering to go do a soil sample, that doesn't give permission to order a threequarter million dollar product.

I don't disagree, but that's not the questions can all be answered. I think that's a a issue that it's a process issue and it's everywhere we're looking, right? It's it's spin spin the wheel. Where's everything we talked about is a process issue. Like so that $600 in reimbursement, has that gone to pay down the bond? or is it just reimbured? Well, it will go to pay back so we don't have to pay the interest, but and then that 400,000 technically that's what's left that we can get reimbursed from the county. So, in the end, flip side, the bond balance will only be 200 grand when this is all said and done.

Yes and no. Because yes, but in the meantime, as Karen pointed out, we've paid interest on that bond, right? So that isn't right right that's a 100 around $100,000 so far right Ken no the way the software is processing it is being weird right now so I had an issue for other reasons um the amount of interest we paid last year is 17392 and this year we're going to pay I was going to say $100,000 on a million dollar bond seed okay so awfully high for our interest rate in the $230,000 are going to in taxpayer money

that are paying the bond and then theoretically as far as your proposal that parks and recreation fund can be used for this. Is it going to cost us on another project then? Are we going to really we've been kind of like we used part of that money to we've used it here and there. We used some of it to do the master plan for uh was that historic in front of here? No, it was for the for the comments. But we kind of just Martin Ludas. What we're glazing over is the fact that if you use $230,000, it's not arbitrary. No, no, I know. It's now money we're going to be paying on because that's what I believe it was planning. I don't disagree and we're getting a million dollar,

but there's also there's also other infrastructure needs in this town. So, if I'm going to take 200,000 Oh, 20 30,000 you said. And then realistically, are we going to put the pad in without the additional concrete? No, we're not going to. That's another 170. Can we put in with electricity? No, that's 25. No, no, that's included. That's that's included some of the concrete that Yes, it is. And what he read off theund the extra 170,000 is so all the splash pad assert. Yeah. Right. The 783 will be the splash pad with concrete with the utilities which the utilities will need to be bid separately. Those estimates are based on what we know. 7

is not what was said at the meeting. No. And then so they the design has another huge thing of concrete around it. That's another $170,000. And then there's another $170,000 worth of concrete paths, right, to connect parking lots and whatnot. But for $783,000ish, we can have a splash pad with concrete, electricity, storm water, water that well, he told us in the meeting. Agreed. But he was also chicken scratching on a little piece of paper and dropping. Well, how are we supposed to make a how how are we supposed to make decisions? I still don't right now. I agree. I think

that's true. If you look at the p if you even look at what he what's in the paper Ronda well what's in the paper is misleading and and it's incorrect. It also says we have grants pending for it which we don't and the grant writer has said we do not. We have it for the bathrooms but not for anything. We don't have it for the bathroom. Well, we have an application back. We have no grant money to cover. We're telling the public something that's not correct. And and it's and it's upsetting because we have to answer to the same people who now have a completely different version of events who think we're taking away a free splash splash. Right. Right. The last statement is it was a gift to the town. Not it's only $400,000 left

which we're listen I don't want to poo poo on that. That thing's a wonderful thing. It's a great and it's all coming together. But this is this way this is set up and you know it's my hesitation to try and cure this problem is then or we're we're almost telling people just do whatever you want and then the board will figure it out somehow. Just do whatever you want down that path anymore. I I I can't Peter exciting. What is the what is the life span of the leftover money in the grant? Do we have a time frame? Does it twilight? Do we have to spend it by a certain date?

Yeah. So that the cont it's the the grant itself is a contract. There's a contract between the town of Grand Island and Erie County from 2023. And the contract that was approved by the entire then town board, I did check that. That was approved um August 10, 2023. uh right down

puts gives us1 $1,15,000 and um requires that we build certain improvements which are not like detailed. There aren't extensive drawings or anything else with it. So, I mean to your point, somebody said it could have been a smaller splash pad or whatever it might be that the specific items that are identified that we agreed to install are accessible ball fields, playground related site improvements, veterans uh park on Adele Road. Improvements include accessible surface ball field and containing containment netting, sight sight fencing, playground improvements, orboard installation, a a new splash pad, and other related improvements to property. For that, we got 1.1 million. At some point, as time went along, we realized 1.1 wasn't going to cover the wish list of things that were described on that grant. And the town board then uh upped the it its financing to go up to 1.3 million. So you borrowed you borrowed an additional $200,000 to cover these these pieces. It's supposed to kind of have been done. Um there isn't like a schedule. I understand just from conversations with the supervisor and I've seen no communication writing about this that uh the these are ARPA funds, Erie County ARPA funds. I understand from conversations with a supervisor that at some point not that long ago um uh Kevin Hartwick u was reaching out uh wanting to know the status of the the spend and uh was you know heartened that there was progress being made something to that effect. Don't quote me on the exact words, but that was like the the sentiment. Whether the county gives us a pass and allows us to keep the extra the the balance that's remaining and apply it some other way or not, whether this agreement can be modified, those are things we would have to talk to the

county about. The document doesn't specify an exact time frame for construction and completion. Um, so I I think that would be a matter of but it is quite a while now. I mean, this was uh this is a a three-year-old uh agreement. Uh why did it take so long? Can't answer can't answer, Dan. No, a lot. Why did it take so long? I know exactly why it took so long. The same that same reason we're in this room discussing. Yes. And we we weren't going to do anything until we had a better first off.

Miracle League's projects were first. It was they got the money, so whatever they spent on redoing their service, doing their surveillance we were dealing with whatever was left. So, they had to do that. As far as I think your point is between when we knew what they were going to spend and when this purchase order,

right, that I don't know how quickly or how long it took to put it together because as you pointed out a part of that process. So I'm saying is if we knew this was part of the process, this could have been designed at the beginning and we would have known what the cost was a year ago and known whether we could move forward or not on it. My point is if it was part of the original bonding, part of the original grant, why wasn't the work done on this so we would have known what it would cost us instead of in the 11th hour again.

But it's not even what it would cost us. reality is we knew we know what we had left in the grant and why wasn't that part of a conversation amongst the board to decide the scope of the size of the splash pad because where we ended up my understanding by the way is that what has been ordered is the largest it can be without being a system that function functions on a recirculating pump I don't get that correction That's what I'm saying. Not my five laws. My point. I mean, I mean, I don't want to do this because I wouldn't want to do this for our community. Be a waste of of of resources. A splash could be a little mushroom in the middle of a concrete pad,

right? There was a lot of room or we could do something. Is it possible to reach out to the obviously the the the stuff that they're customizing has nothing to do with the concrete that they have to lay down. Can we I don't know how far along in the proc can we ask them can you reduce it by 300 square feet and bring the cost down $80,000 $60,000 or $50,000 I don't know does it do we know that well at this point can we I can't say for sure Jose the only one piece of information relevant in that regard this uh much build this this week

it was logged on February 25th and They reported to engineering, I'm told, that it was a 8 to 12 week lead time to finish the project. So that could mean that they're someplace close to done around now. That said, we can have further conversations in executive session, but I can say publicly with any question, no commitment that's to spend money that's not approved by the town board um you know is is a commitment that is uh enforceable, if that makes sense.

It's not a box splash pad either. That's what I learned today. It's it's custom. Like its colors are custom. The parts are custom. I'm not making excuse, Betty. I'm just trying to explain what happened. How come we weren't part of it? How come parks and recck wasn't part of it? How come no one had any input on this? I understand. We have all these committees and all of a sudden we found out we ordered a 700,000 splash pad and it's custom. It's custom. It's gonna have I think Miracle League is going to be imposed on it or something is what I just learned. So So, a couple of things we I'm sorry for interrupting

the time frame the time frame. It's this wasn't ordered last week. So, you know, we learned about it last week, but it was ordered on 39. If there's 8 to 12 week timeline, then it then it might be ready for delivery soon, right? We're in 8 week not even started working on it because they all they have is a PO with uh with an employee signature. No, they wouldn't. They also have a contract. They have a No, they do have a contract. They do have one by who? Who signed the contract? Pete didn't sign, did he? No, it's signed by a a a person in How are we responsible to a vendor who accepts a contract that's not fulfilled?

We can have that conversation in exact session. Dan, there are, as you point out, lots of defense as to why we would not be responsible for a contract that's not approved by I don't mind people hearing some of this stuff unless you talk. If it has to go to executive session, fine. But I'm I'm sick of hiding everything and all the incompetent stuff that we have to deal with as a town board in executive session and people wonder why we beat our heads on the wall as councilman because we hide all the stupidity in this town. I'm sorry. I'm I'm I'm at my wits end with this one. Can we just do a quick recap on where we are because we know that how we got here is pretty messed up and that has to be dealt with separately. Yep. But where we are right now is we had a grant for um

1.1 one 1,15,000. We have spent something but we have 47746 left to spend. The splash pads is huge design overall connecting all of that park and it would be wonderful, right? It would be wonderful. But the splash pad that we have ordered itself is like this and it costs $78,000. This that concrete turn it's part of it is included. So six feet on the outside there. See this that under the extra 170,000

is not seating area with some shading, some seating, some benches. It it's like a big big scope of work there. But if we were to pull I have all the numbers, but I went back and checked the numbers because they weren't adding up for me the other night at workshop. The estimates that we have on these line line items is felt to be very concrete estimates. It wasn't like, "Hey, what do you think fencing? Let's throw 40 at it." It's not that. It was actually used. There were specs used. The concrete was used. Our contracted price um was used. Um so all of those numbers

seem to be and they seem to be conservative in the sense of they're a little high. My understanding, by the way, those numbers that were read to the town board for the first time a week ago during our workshop have been circulated to other town employees before the PO was signed in March. So, so this 708,000 is that the contracted price with this 708 is with vortex for the purchase. The 73 for 75 is the approximate amount for water. waste water and electricity and that's approximated how how do we get to that uh I believe the concrete foram or the

well the this was all electric was um conversation with our our vendor CRI to get that number based on we got an estimate from a prof you know not someone using this thumb and going would still go out to bid but you know because I'm sick of hearing the thumb wag and the delta and let me restate this I was told these numbers were found in very um legitimate ways. It was not a thumb wag. It was a sit down with the vendor. Here's the specs. This is what those two the two other $170,000 entries for the concrete are based on the assumption that

the contract we use for our flat repair work, the one we just executed Monday with BS would cover that, which that would not be the case. We'd have to put those out to bid. And I imagine that somebody doing a job of that size would probably be able to come in cheaper than the guy who we hired to fix sidewalk flags when water department. But let's let's keep let's forget about that for now. Let's go tight and then grow. Okay. So right now 708 is for the pad. The 75,000 is what we need to make it function. We obviously, you know, contrary to conversation Monday, we need water to have a splash pad.

Don't say. So, we have to spend that money. So, that total is $783,000. That gives us a usable nicel looking splash pad. So, basically, and what are the annual costs to operate it? I have no idea what that is because that would be another decision maker. I have no idea what budget is that go on parks, parks or recreation. I would think that's built into a parks budget just like the other maintenance is. But this is not a recirculating system. We're just Well, I mean, we're gonna have to pay for water. So, water goes, it goes in. We're just throwing water. There was I remember there being conversations last year about

just goes through a thing into a drain. Not that it has it has a uh I hope special diverter. No, it doesn't. as a diverter in the system that it either if the my understanding is if the system is operational a valve is open and the it goes into the wastewater system because once it touches a human body it has to go to waste water when it is not functioning the water that's going in is just rainwater that valve switches and the water goes into the storm water system so we're not treating we're not treating rain water at the wastewater plant because it's associated with

and these are all discussions should have been done like eight months ago cuz I'd like to know the annual cost how much water goes through these parts. There was a discussion about recirculating to water the fields but that there was a reason that was not cost effective. I wasn't on the board then. I just heard the conversation and somewhere that I mean what's our insurance rate going to go up? How much is what do we have to have a lifeguard there during hours of operation? the recirculating one. You would those go on the list of questions. The first question is is how can we keep the money if we stall the job? Right.

I think the first question is and I'm going to make the I'm going to make the I'm going to make the motion pretty soon is that we pause this thing with the with the developer and tell them we have a a problem. They should they're that guy's sitting over there fat, dumb, and happy making a splash bat for Grand Allen and expecting a paycheck. And as of right now, I'm voting no on giving them a paycheck out until we figure out finding 100% how it's going to go. Well, to finish this pray about though, Dan, let's get through this. Just let me see the number. I'm not saying I agree with the number. I just want us all to be on the same page because we It's been a little bit hairy, scary, right?

We all So, we start with this, then it's 783. It functions, water spits out, it goes away. We have um 477 left in the grant. That leaves us 305594. Y

it was authorized to bond an additional 220 to cover the anticipated cost of a splash pad. So if we calculate that in and I understand Dan with you that that's taxpayer money that was obviously discussed whenever this resolution was done and it was decided this would be an amenity for the community. So 305 minus the 220 leaves us 85594. That's what we need. If all the numbers magically work, that's the number we're working with in the parks trust fund. We have 17 something change. Not big number. So we can pull that 85 out of there to cover that cost. What we are leaving behind. My question today was, can we go back and do this wonderful extra $170,000 or less of concrete to make the extra seating area blah blah blah? Yes, we can.

That's when they go find a donor. So, as far as the donor goes, and then on top of that was the fencing 40. So, there's some other figures in there. The bathrooms are not a part of this at all. The only thing that was authorized at the last board meeting was um $5,700 to do a study on the bathrooms to see if we could expand on them. But there is a grant that's going to go forward for that and that would be um used for Miracle League entire park and connect sidewalks would connect to that. Correct Tom? 500,000 out of here. That's coming up with that 5700 for the engine. That's out of the grant money,

but the bathrooms themselves are estimated to probably be 500,000. That's going to be a grant. If that moves forward, that's grant money. And there is a current grant that Elaine, I believe, is working toward for the bathroom. Yes. Yes. So, that that's the big picture. Um, now where was I? I lost my track. You're at 385. Oh, no. I'm sorry. You're at So, we're at 85 59 that we would trust. Oh, then we can go back and we could do that later if a donor comes forward. Now,

my concern with it, I hope there is a donor. That would be fantastic, right? We could do the full project and the donor could write the check and it would be great. My concern is that this has been two months and we knew nothing about it. And then to find out about it, it's a little concerning to me that maybe we know about it now because the donor might not be solid. That's just a gut feeling of mine. I did talk to a couple of people here in the building. They feel solid that there is a donor, but there's been no mention of

I got the I got the impression I got the well say impression. I got information that suggests opposite that perhaps the only reason we got these numbers now is because they needed firm numbers to provide to the donor so they could get them on board. I don't know that that's true but that was the Can we identify who they is and them? It's Mira Miracle League. Okay. So it's Miracle League but they are not identifying but they but they were the ones that theoretically will pursue said donor. Yes. Okay. So I like I said take that. I don't know. I can't speak to truthfulness of that. The first gap was said to be $35,000 right?

It's not $35,000. Yeah. 200 200 everything. I understand that. The reason I mentioned that is did the donor think it was $35,000? Well, that that that's what I've been saying when if I were to someone and say, "Listen, I could cover the gap." I didn't think I'd be covering a huge check. I thought, you know, so Gran's a heck of a donation. See if we see if I get this. I think first thing I think it's incumbent upon us to have this conversation with the Miracle League and see if there is someone on the hook or on the line or possibly and if we can participate or help or find out. I was trying to say

so if this is being paid out of art funds then the county either needs to pay it out before December has to give it back. I guess that so there there's Peter. So there's the answer to so Mira Miracle League, right? We'd like to know that. I think that's important information. What's the estimated cost of operation? Do we need to hire more people? Things of that nature. Does anyone

I'm not saying anyone here, but it would have been nice to know that stuff ahead of time, but wanted to charge a fee to the extent somehow. Can you hear us, Peter? Did we get muted for a minute? I can hear. He said no, it said it popped up. Yeah, good now. It went mute for a minute, but I can hear you now. All right. So, right now for Miracle, cost of operation, employees.

That's Miracle is not going to have the answer. I'm saying we as a board I I mean I'm not comfortable making any decision going forward or backing out or anything until I know these facts, right? Um operation still think the first course of action is put the thing on pause. Well, that doesn't hurt anybody to put on pause. Yeah. Okay. Contact contact vendors. We got to vote on because not to be I think we need to contact vendor, you know, whether it be pause and also find out can it be scaled can it be scaled down? Can it be modified at all? Is it done? It's been 8 weeks, not 12. So, we don't know. We assume it's done, but we don't know if it's done.

And it's only it's we meet next Monday, so it's not if it's on pause, it'll be for a week. It's not going to kill anybody for a week. And so, what if it does? Again, I don't I'm I'm of a total different mindset. You guys think you want to plow forward. I don't care if I give the county back $400,000. It's more than we thought. It's more it the project costs more than we thought. We're not I I I have no problem giving the county back. That park money can only use for parks and recreation. Correct. I I think too give it back. Take $85,000 out of there using it for the county. Going back to the feds. So

Oh, it's a federal grant to the county. ARPA that Erie County got ARPA money that they then that's why I think Dan to your point about the the bonding and the the west formal nature of this grant compared to grants through other methods that's why so um yeah so that $85,000 is has to be used for a park and recreation I know it's taxpayer dollar but I would see I would think that if at least I'm made comfortable with everything else. That would be an appropriate expenditure. I think it would.

It would be good for the town if that was the case. So, but I I'd like to know those answers before ready to vote on spending anything. And I don't know where to get them. I'd also like I don't know the what do you how have you ran what the premiums for our insurance will be for that? And not received anything. I mean it's different if it was a pool because we would need a lifeguard and I know so my words within 360 within the first two seasons we will have a lawsuit I will guarantee someone because no one takes responsibility for their own faults.

I mean this was before my time but did this people ever make a presentation or explain what the splash bad was all anything? It was a state that vendor is on state contract. So that's why this never went out to bid and never was all able to be done. Maybe not even through state contract yet to take to the board. That probably wouldn't just ask an executive session. Dan, just to clarify, I don't think anybody around the table's trying to push this through. Just trying to see where we are and get get a big No. And even if it even if we do move forward, it doesn't change the fact that how we got here. That's a whole separate

to say that it leaves a lot to be desired would be the understatement essential. Again, my my thing is infrastructure first before playgrounds. Again, I I have grandkids I'd love to bring to this thing. And again, wants and needs. I want it and I we afford it. I get it. If we can't re if we could take that 400,000 plus the 200,000 and the parks 85,000 and reappropriate that to infrastructure, I'd say, "Yeah, this is crazy. Let's do it." But we can't. We're not spending any but we're not bonding. We're not paying the bond on the $200,000 because once once this all clears, we pay the grant. Now we have a bond that just we're paying for of the $200,000. $200,000. $230,000. That becomes our bond payment. Agreed.

Because we borrowed the money. a board previous to me. The only thing to do that for the splash pads. So yes, I mean that was already I'm not saying we could change our mind, but I I believe we had infrastructure issues whenever this was approved too and it was approved. I I I want to be that horse. The whole thing was if we were in the loop at every step of the way, this would not we would we would have the same% no six months ago or we have said proceed forward.

The fact that we can make this work does not cure my eye. Right. I am, you know, I'm, you know, I guess after a year, maybe I'm not a new councilman anymore, but this I I find this completely if this one's caught because it's a massive issue, right? How many things are happening that we don't know about? That's that's the lack of confidence that I have now in how things operate here. Well, that's the procedure part of it. And everything I've touched in four months, there's a procedure issue. So that's a whole different I mean are we squandering money at all fronts and we just don't know about it. I don't know the question on

So if we were to if we were to make a decision of what our next step would be right now we obviously need other information but we're talking about putting this on a pause until we can answer all our questions. Agreed. I will make the motion right now that we direct the engineering department to put this to contact the vendor the order with find out where they're at. Put it on pause. Find out where they're at. Find out if it's scalable and what that would mean. I will accept that to my friend the amendment to my motion since you seconded. Right. I'll second. I would offer maybe some legal advice on that. I don't know if you want to do it in public or not. Can we unfortunately might be

I I'll just I'll just say the following. I don't I have no idea what uh whether there could be any adverse impact associated with putting the order on pause. I'm not saying that there will be that there won't be. We we need to reach out to the vendor need to understand what impact it would have with the county if there was a resolution. There have been some discussion that was reported to me about if the town wasn't going to move forward. there is a a urgent time frame for the county to repurpose those fund the 400 whatever is left um elsewhere. So I I'm not telling you to vote or to support or don't support. I just don't know to what extent there could potentially be any adverse impact on uh a formal pause of of the the project.

Okay. Because of CHAP PT, we've rendered all lawyers you uh basically useless. So I asked CHAP PT the same question. If a supervisor ordered a $700,000 splash pad, an employee went ahead and did it, what would the actions be? Number one, immediately suspend the order. Now, I'm not I'm I mean, it makes sense to me if I'm a business person and I'm building a splash. I want someone to tell me as soon as possible. It makes no sense for us not to suspend the order when we're meeting next Monday. And if we clear it all up, we tell them it's suspended for a week. Hold on for a week because if you don't hold on, you might get nothing out of this. If if three people vote to cancel it, he has nothing. And don't disagree.

From this point on, because we're on video, the vendor now knows. We know. They knows we knew last Monday. Yeah. If they're paying attention. I don't Where are these people? I mean, if I I mean, if you're an attorney, you're going to go back to last meeting and say, "When did the town board know?" a week ago today four and it took us a week to get a meeting together to make a decision which isn't hard for I mean government has to we have to it's hard to get a meeting together but to not suspend it makes no sense to me at all but I again I'll follow the if you guys want to hold off I I got a motion on the floor to suspend it if you want to call the question and we don't get three votes that's fine they're Ashawa Ontario

they New York. They have I think is based in New York. Maybe Google is wrong. There's a Yeah, there's a Selma North Carolina also.

You want to know the next step? Somebody You have a motion. You have a motion. Second. So, so what? request them to pause it for a week address it and answer the question whether it's scalable and how far how far along are they is it scalable and and don't do anything else until we have a meeting this coming Monday any more discussion all in favor I opposed okay who's going to make that call I'll be glad to make it okay get the contact information for engineering please huh I said to get a contact information report back to the board when you have something, please.

Wait, I'm just tell Bob to do it, right? Oh, I thought Okay. No. Yeah, you can have it under. I thought you wanted to make Oh, let's No. Oh, I'm not making the call. I mean, I willirect. Would you want me to? I thought that's what you wanted to do. You know what? Maybe I will do it because then I can find out more information. I'll get the contact. I'll be glad to do that and I'll send back I'll have them send me an email and we'll call you guys. It's the North Carolina people. Thank you. We need to actually get the actual person. I think this is general. Do we have the contract? Do we have anything else for public session where you won't be doing? Oh, just

the broke the um for power buying the power. What' you find out? I'll send it to you guys. It's about up to 10% of the savings. Yes. So, if he doesn't save us money, there's no fee. Well, I thought there was a fee and it was the savings or was that because there was a 13% estimate was because there was like a $13,000 fee and I thought he said and the broker just the broker and then if they save money they got a 10%. That's the way I read that. Maybe I was wrong. Yeah, that's why it might be better just to bring them in. you guys are more flexible.

Why don't we I mean, unless you guys, if the rest of you have an appetite to not explore that route, it just seems in my opinion a better way to make sure we're not overpay though because we need to move pretty quick on it. Maybe have as we get into June, July, if we're going to do it, we should vote on a month. Maybe both um options present. I think that would be great to understand. I have a general understanding for bother. So you want to make we're meeting for six o'clock now. Give them each 15 minutes to begin the meeting. I have var to can do it 5:30. 5:30 then. Yeah. I'll make a motion. Do you have a motion to amend the meeting?

I would. I make a motion to start next uh week, whatever day it is. So I mean just reading this until 5:30. Yeah. 5:30. Kilmer. Yeah. Second. Second. Whoever. I'll second. So the brokerage fee would be to you guys I'll forward it. I'm sorry that you guys read on this. It's 11537 plus if they found billing errors or savings they would get 10% of savings paid as well for that. Did I email this to you guys? Yeah. All in favor was that to start? Yeah. Hi. My gosh.

I'm the frontier on Thursday. Yeah. I can't believe laughing. Motion to do we have we just adjourn and then enter because that why not? That's legal. I know it's a legal session, not executive, right? We'd like to. Yeah. Either way, it doesn't matter. You can go into it's legal. So if a meetings law doesn't apply to it. So if that's all you want to talk about is legal advice, thank you. That's fine. A quick question though, who's going to look into operation cost and um insurance cost? Okay, cool. Check. Thank you.

So the vendor should be able to at least give you a usage and then we could talk to Cody that us know what that uses. I think for us the call employees would come down to our what we would want to do as far as staffing. Do we want to have it staffed? You know how many hours? I mean, we have hundreds of baths in the summer. So, can we just reappropriate one or are they all busy at all times all day? You know, I mean, Rex's got to answer that question. You know, we're constantly this league. Yeah. And uh what are these summer hires going to do if we get a splash status at the end of it?

I mean, he had the good thing is we have lifeguard like Joe has lifeguards that we pay for the swim programs. Like, there are people that theoretically he could. Yeah. Can we appropriate? All right. So, motion motion to adjourn at 4:30. Look at that. Do you want to use my team's link, Tom, or keep this? I have it. Yeah, I'm just gonna I'll log in from my I may All right. I I'll I'll log out of this meeting then. All right. Thanks cheater.