City Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Focus. I I'd like to call the um legislative committee meeting to order. It is uh April, what is today? April, it's May 6th. May 6th. And did you get an opportunity to I have a question. The um the citizen reps, we reached out to them. We have two citizen reps that are haven't been coming. I haven't been here. I forgot. Okay. Can we reach out again to them? Two months ago. Mhm. She's working.

Okay. Because if because and it's okay like if this is not working but we need citizens to represent on this committee and just tell her like if it's not a good time we need to like give two other citizens an opportunity at this point cuz I like serving with uh Shawanda. Okay. Um the first item on our agenda is the amendment to the commission policy and procedures council rules. Um, I did get a chance um to look at just this section and I'm glad the whole thing isn't on here cuz that would have been too much. Yep. It'll help.

And the reason that um we're presenting this one is because of the change that was made during the commission meeting. We want to make sure that officially gets changed in the policy and procedures.

Yep. So, I did get a chance and I uh saw um there was a couple I think words and I think it was in the resolution that in one of them that was like um um see let me go cuz I was on my phone when I was looking at it. Is there any comments or on this particular because it was straightforward and it was just um yeah I think it added clarity to this particular resol resolution. Yeah, there's a copy of it if you want it on right here

and this is the process that um is currently taking place. So I just made the changes to what's currently taking place and if you guys want to make changes to that feel free. I'd like to know the changes that is being made. It's in red. Yep. It's in red only. That's why you copy because you will need a copy of it. Yep. So, um everything that's stried out is what we're getting rid of and replacing with what's in red

because uh I think that uh sometimes it's good for us to know in advance to have this information advance any changes that being made and tell we show up to a meeting. us as commissioners should have a little bit of something to do a little bit of research about whatever the matter is that's coming forth. We did have it in advance. We had this we had this in advance. I don't remember. Let me

It was there was an email for it and then we have our council rules that was sent um that had the old um council rules and then these are the new uh additions that was happening with the um council rules. So we did have it in advance. I have actually a copy of the council rules as well, but we did have it in advance. Um, what was the the email the other the day before yesterday was sent to us this particular one, but I've had it was attached to the agenda that went out. Yeah. For this particular item, but it's past meeting. Yes. And that's the first one that we're uh

Yep. That's the first policy. So, we won't cover cuz it's a lot of information to cover and it just makes sense to go through and walk through each one of them in this agenda and this committee has um sometimes there's stuff that's on the agenda and so it just to cover all of those cuz I don't know what the discussion will look like. So, we won't add a lot of those. Um but each time we'll have a policy on there. Are we on number one? There's only one on there, but yes, we are on number one. Well, I'm looking at one, two, three. What are you talking about?

So, before you walked in, we were discussing the policy that we're discussing, which is the first one. So, amendment to the commission policy and procedure council rules. So, the first one is um is on there, the one that we're talking about now. Oh, yes. Yes, we're on number one. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So all the the additions and subtractions are in red and um like the the clerk was just talking about it's how we're already operating but some of the additions have added some clarity as to how that looks. Some of the words have been omitted uh or taken off to provide more clarity.

Go ahead. Okay. So, first of all, I want to say some of this stuff that's uh you guys want to change it is not that was already and how was the same when it's so many red so many changes almost the whole procedure whole thing is written to be changed and one thing I seen where it's like it's giving a city manager more power. Which one which one are you um referring to? Which one? Right now it said something about him.

It was something about it was going through through the city manager. So I'll tell you what, Commissioner Clark, we'll walk through each part of it because it is a lot. May make exception in case of

Let's walk through each um paragraph. So the first one it says the items of a business may be submitted to the clerk for review by the mayor commissioners and city official officially city officials after staff review those items will be sent to the appropriate committee for discussions. So it's replacing the placed on the agenda by the mayor and and so instead of being placed on the agenda it'll be put the review was added. So normally the mayor would just add something to the agenda. So now it's it's by review. So since placed on the agenda by the mayor, any one member of the commission or a commission appointee and that's been replaced by after staff review those items will be sent to the appropriate committee for discussion. Yeah, I see all this um if it's pretty much the same. What was what is the uh reason for changing it? because it's a lot of red white and from what I seen like I said to me it was getting uh trying to get the city manager more power just as in the past when you guys try to do redo the policy and procedure it was trying to get the mayor more power take power from commissioner and um less power to the residents and I stated that over and over every time the policy and procedure came up also the part about commissioner fields just suspend the rules to change the way the package the agendas was coming and then you guys are already trying to make changes to that and and another thing was also I saw something about suspend the rules now there's never been a problem with suspend the rules but now all of a sudden you trying to change that how the vote is so all of a sudden all these changes are trying to come

so what what you're seeing now is actually how it currently operates the reason that we're going through this portion is because of the change that we did at the city commission with getting the agenda out. So, we wanted to officially make sure that that got changed in the policy and procedures. Um there's no changes to the um suspension of the rules. What was put in there before was a majority and that was actually incorrect. If you look up the law, the law is to suspend the rules, you have to have a twothirds vote. So whenever this was passed, I believe it was passed last in like 2019 or something. Um it shouldn't have said majority because the law is 2/3 vote.

Suspending the rules is a um Oh my gosh, it's the rule. Robert's rules of the rules. Yep. And it's actually in our ordinance, too. And so that is kind of outlined on number three that it says it's outlined in ordinance chapter 2, which section and Robert's rules of order. So it gives a little bit more clarity if you look at the ordinance or the Robert's rules of order. I I don't all of a sudden it's immediately come change every time into something and I don't trust it. I would not be supporting it. Thank you.

That's fine. And and I'll say this if if there's any um item because the reason this is on the agenda is because Commissioner Henry asked it to be put on the agenda because she wanted to look at the so we don't want to change this um based on our trust distrust or whatever because she asked for this to be put on my agenda because the rules that are currently in place here and so we could keep what's there. We don't have to change anything. But like you stated, the the first one gave the mayor. It says placed on the agenda by the mayor and any one member of the commission or a commission employee. So we changing that to to give the commission more power. So if we want to leave these the same, I'm perfectly fine. She asked as a request that this go on her agenda on my agenda and that's why it's there.

So Commissioner Henry because she act like she didn't know asked. You were at the meeting all these details. No, I'm saying yeah, you were at the meeting when she asked. She said, "Commissioner Henry Henderson, can you place this on your agenda?" This was at the first meeting that we had. And I and I said yes. I didn't say that to I just said, "Yeah, I'll put it on my agenda." So, yes, she did know. So, that's not true for the record. So, um my question was pertaining to um again how I asked for Thursday at noon. How is that interpreted? Because it says Friday.

No, it's it's under distribution. So, the distribution portion. Um, and I'm sorry, I did put end of the day cuz I think that's what was on there before, but I can change I can make that change to noon. Yeah, it's under distribution. But I say leave it the same and whatever else that needs to, we'll deal with it then.

I don't see a need to change it. So, city clerk, um we'll vote on this because it was on um agenda. Um but I will say please remove all um um city commission policy procedures from my agend. Okay. Thank you. Item number two, who of the authorization of temporary use of income tax funds to facilitate terms of the completion of several state grants. City manager and I just have a question. Um I know I understand um that this authorization why is it coming through legislative committee? I know the process has been we're putting it through here, then we're sending it through every other committee. Is that still happening?

Actually, I thought of bring it through this committee uh to uh get the process done and take it through personnel and finance. That should be enough. But um it will go through the other committee. Yes. Okay. Mhm.

Thank you. And the basic purpose of it is that as you know the city receives a lot of grants. Most of the federal grants like CDBG and uh uh others we typically have a procedure where we can draw down the money to pay the bills. And by federal rules, as long as we don't hold the money for any extended period of time, but just draw it down when we're ready to use it, so we don't get into a problem with them. Um, but the state grants typically require us to pay first and then send them an FSR along with a copy of the cancel checks. We're sitting right now with several grants that were mentioned on here that uh we don't have the money in general fund to pay the bills to then send them a cancel check and it's impacting our ability to complete these grants within the fiscal year which is coming up rapidly June 30. So, what I'm asking is that we be able to use income tax money, which is the only place we've got money to pay these bills and then we can immediately send the checks to the state to get reimbursement. And even with that, they take um sometimes much as 30 days or more to to get the money back. but that would enable us to at least go ahead and use the money that's in these grants for what they were intended and complete them within the fiscal year.

So, it's really um like a matching where we have to it's really sort of an advance because it's going to be paid back and go right back into the uh u uh income tax fund. So in 30 days, 60 days when the when those checks come in after we income tax fund. Okay. All right. You have any questions about this? There any questions um about this particular item? Yes. you can come, please come to the to the mic so the people that in the audience can hear the

fact that uh from time to time that we constantly uh fool with uh this uh the the city income tax.

Yes. And the income tax, city income tax and all these places. And we haven't even got the budget ready for this year's budget. and it's it's due in a matter of days from now. So, what is going on here is that is business being taken care of as it should be because it seemed like we constantly staring but we steady in our buying for paying these bills. When are we going to come out of this sweat? We don't have a finance director. You all have fixed it and and done underhanded work and even keeping one out of there by lowering their rates of of pay so low. And the ones that are getting paid decently is still not getting the job done and transacting business for the city. And when I first came on as commissioner, the one thing was explained to me that we're in better shape than we ever been. We've got a surplus of money. that was said. If you were ever pull up that record, you would hear those words being said. So now here it is. I've been in here like 2 and 1/2 years. No, not even a half. I got another year and a half to go. But at any rate, in that time, all of this abundance of money that we had in the best shape we in, why we constantly falling in a red for money and they how about the bills are going up and everything. Yes. But that's why you have a director to direct these funds so that we don't get into this fix. I mean, this is a every month almost that we're running into this. So then what how is this going to pull us out of the problem that we've been had for you to go over and over and we need to have a thorough investigation like a forensic investigation to find out where all of this is going. I'm listening to some

other things, but I'm looking for it to surface that there's other problems that's going on. But, uh, right now, we are addressing this, and this will cost the income tax fund, nor the city, not one dime. All we're talking about is borrowing the money until we until we get the check back from the state that will go right back into the fund. Currently our general can't support the amounts that is being asked for. So the ask is that we transfer funds from the general fund until we get the checks from the grants and then put that money back once those checks from those grants come in because there's an upfront cost for those grants is what the ask is that we're moving money um until we get the checks in. But what assurance are we have do we have that we're going to get that money?

We've been getting it all along when the uh amount spend it were smaller. But what's happening now is you're coming up toward the end and also earlier on you had more cash in the general fund to pay them and then submit the you don't have it now is what the problem is. the grants themselves describe the process and it's nothing new. We've been doing this for years except that normally general fund had enough money or the utility from one of them would have enough money that you pay them and then soon as you send the cancel checks back, they send you a check back and you put it back. And just for the record, what we're talking about here is one FDCVT grant that was uh for police radios totaling $164,834. Uh an FDCVT grant where we've got $22,977.50 50 cents. That was to pay for some of the hydrants that got replaced. The high water grant that's doing work down uh on the riverfront and so forth to come up with solutions to prevent the high water problem. Uh that this particular amount 91,84422 general fund didn't have the money. So, this is the only way to complete this grant within the time frame is by going ahead and paying them where we can send the check in, get the money back, put it back into the income tax fund while we finish doing the rest of the work. Number four, the RAM uh grant. That's for the work that you've been seeing this orange thing and these workers out

here around city hall for the last couple of months while they have tuck pointed the building and restretched the membranes on the roof to stop some of the leaks and that kind of thing. They're all state grants that we have pursued and gotten successfully and we're just trying to complete the implementation of them. There any other questions about this particular item? Is any more clarity needed for this particular item?

One additional thing, if I could just make the comment. Uh the commissioner made the point that when she came on, they were saying we've never been in better shape. And that's exactly right. you had $10 million that was provided from and ARPA funds from the federal government. And I don't know when, not in the 40 years that I've been involved with the city do I ever remember them having uh $10 million, but when we did expended it the way we did, it went away and back to reality. So for you before you um ask a question um s clerk Moore or the city manager is there um a way to provide everybody with um the cash flow issues that we were having prior to to ARPA because in 2011 when I came on we were having cash flow we were under emergency management but we were definitely having cash flow issues. So, is there a way um to to send everyone the cash flow issues that we were experiencing prior to opera funding?

Touch base with Rhonda and see if she's got uh record of those. So then you can we can have the um reports cuz we were under emergency manager up until that time cuz I came on we had I was under Harris I think and then from Tony and then um so yeah just like a a a picture so you can see the the so everybody can see that. Sure. Cuz neither the crew nor I was here at that time. That's why I was asking like is there any um um emails? Yeah. Go ahead.

All right. To the chair. uh Commissioner Isimov the personnel finance committee and city manager. So these funds coming that's going to be paid by the city income tax. So we in participation of getting the 1 million. So we going to have to worry about paying these out of that 1 million then. Right. No, we won't. No. Uh we wouldn't in any instance we wouldn't have to worry about that because these are grants that have been approved by the state. Mhm. All we're dealing with here is the process. Okay? They won't pay us what we've spent in compliance with the grant until we show that we've paid the people.

And that's why we need to do this. It wouldn't matter whether it was coming out of income tax or any other fund. If we had money in the other fund, it still get refunded. We'll still get refunded. Thank you, chair. Thank you. All right. So, I'll make a recommendation um that we send this to the full body for the meeting on the 18th. No, I'm sorry. This will go to personnel and finance meeting which will meet next week or the week after. Next week. Next Wednesday. Wonderful.

Next item on the agenda is the approval of the use of the income tax funds to pay first six months of Medic one increase. All right, city manager, let's go. This is the it was a recommendation of mayor pro Tim. Uh I actually had uh intended to try and have some further discussions with medic one. Uh but that was sort of shut off by the um position taken that we would just pay it out of income tax and uh for that that's the reason why it's here. One correction on the memo. At the bottom it says 156. Yeah, it should be saying 156,000

where it says 153 and his recommendation was that we out of income tax for the period from July 1 to December 31st, which is the first six months, which would I suppose give us time to try and see if we could find any other solution, but he wanted to ensure that ambulance service continued through that period.

I I I agree that we need to continue ambulance service, but medic one doesn't need to do all of their repairs and changes in one year to put hardships on communities like ours and others because some um municipalities got a decrease. I don't know how they felt like that that was an equal um decision to make. We need to put the onus back on them because this still is a creating a hardship for our community. That that does not eliminate the hardship. It doesn't. And I don't agree with that because now you asking us to use this for that. No, they need to they need to not do all their repairs in one year.

Commissioner was saying about using income tax funds, but again, that wasn't the administration's recommendation. and it was Mayor Protems. So, I disagree with this. What should happen? Anytime you have a price increase, it should be a negotiation done. You shouldn't just fold your cards and say, "Oh, yeah, I'll give you the money." It should be a negotiation done, and that's what I recommend. It should not be just paying them, especially with this unreasonable increase. It should be a reasonable incremental increase, not this ridiculous increase. So, I think it should be negotiation being done, not just saying we're gonna pay you.

So, I have a question. So, did you negotiate a different price with them? Because they just gave each community a a price that they wanted to make us pay. The initial indication is that they would not, but I would still propose to do so to continue to do so.

Okay. Cuz we have Okay, go ahead. Um the mayor prom sent off the information and he uh I agreed with him and we we came to the public safety and discussed you know a lot of things why we should cuz we didn't want people without you know service but let me also say um Mr. Little said that you know you wanted further discussion but the mayor promot you all he sent us all the information where this has been in discussion for six years. I wasn't aware of it. I don't know if you guys I've been here four and a half years and but he sent us all the informations where all the correspondence where he been um trying to meet and discuss with Mr. Little I think he met with him a couple times but other times according to Mic one and the information we got he did not comply did not meet with him and stuff. So this has been 6 years of absolute untruth.

Please do not interrupt me. Chair get control. Go ahead. Thank you. So yes, this has been he said. Did you guys see the information? I saw what he said. Okay. Yeah, but you saw that this has been 6 years of discussion. Did you see that from 2020? Oh, did you guys read you read the entire email? So, I saw that, but I didn't I didn't see that that it was a discussion because he ain't been the city mayor.

Yeah, MANAGER. WE ALL KNOW he's worked for the city four times and I believe three was city manager and when he wasn't city manager, he was assistant city manager most of the time. So, this is not like he's new to the city. It's been four times. And he even states about 1984. So, that's what I was 14. So, that's been a long 42 years ago. So he's been aware of city functions uh even him being uh planned in economic. So this is nothing new. Uh so if this is what we were sent and we all seen it it was and um commissioner fields met with you met with made it one also. So this information has been given for six years and it's like they it was not like they asking for the all the money you pay in payments like we always do and I believe St. Joe, they are charging them even more. Way more than us. Like a like what?

Yeah. Way way higher than 60,000. The township and us got the highest. Yeah. The township they got even higher than what we have. They did. Yeah. So it wasn't just like it was directed towards us. They they are paying even more. And the point is bottom line we don't need to be without service. No, I agree with that. And my thing is I think we should still continue to negotiate. I still feel like it's they holding us hostage. Um because how you going to tell us you going to deny our residents cuz you're saying that they are using the services more than any other communities. I don't agree with that. I don't even know if that was accurate. That is exactly what they were saying. That's what

but it's been a long time the discussion which should be honest if it was something that important it should have been brought to the commissioners. So, like this is nothing new. It's new to us, but it wasn't new to the city manager. Thank you. Thank you. And that is crap. I didn't hear anything about it. City manager. I was just saying let's keep on order. Yeah. Let's keep respectful. Y'all hear that? Everybody hear that? Disrespectful. Yeah. Definitely untrue.

Okay. because I didn't hear anything about medic one and any issues until um uh deputy director uh Brian Kismar came to me it's been about I'm going to say between 3 and 4 months ago now and said I've been representing the city on the Medic one board and uh I think you need to go to those because they're dealing with trying to increase rates and um uh I can't I can't speak to that. We need to have you or the uh assistant city manager be there for that. And so that's when I began going and that's the first I know anything about what they're doing with rates up until I guess up until this year. the city as well as township being part of the communities that originally set Medic up, we actually got, I believe, a favor rate that was much much less up until then. And from some of the discussion that went on at the meeting, uh it's my impression that that was the thing that was being considered by a number of the smaller townships that were voting against this and uh and for more increases for the city because they felt as though we got more rides than anybody else. and they said that the people who ride when they get the bill for their portion don't pay it. Well, these are basically Medicaid and Medicare patients and um if they had the money to pay it, they probably wouldn't be on there.

Commission,

did I turn it off? The mic on? Sorry. So, um, Commissioner Clark Griffin referenced, I actually did meet with Jason and, um, just in short, I actually invited him to our personnel and finance meeting um, on next week. So, if you have questions, you guys can attend and do that. But he did show a duration of time and the presence of the city manager at the meetings when they were referencing increases and things of that nature. Um, and I don't want to speak for either party in particular, but having such information and facts in in regards to how long it's being discussed and why and um, so on and so forth. I know he referenced that it hadn't been any kind of increase ex I want to say in like maybe twice since the onset. Um, so just being able to have fair representation and again Jason wouldn't be won't be Darwin, he'll be Jason from Medic one and you guys can ask the questions and how the onset of the increase or you know increases and then their formula for the increases. So that way we don't have to just you know do like a back and forth and you know and be spirited if we don't necessarily have the full picture which is you know from both sides.

Thank you Commissioner Fields. Go ahead. just had a a comment or a question. Mr. Little, you mentioned that um Medicaid and Medicare patients and that kind of confuses me because I was I would think that Medicaid and Medic Medicaid and Medicare patients the government would pay. I know private insurance like what I have for example, I have huge co-pays and what is the stuff called? Uh minimum family out of pocket. It's horrible. But I'm kind of confused because if we have a plethora of Medicaid patients, why wouldn't Medicaid pay? Medicaid sets a price as to what they're willing to pay for all their medical services including transportation, whatever else, even drugs and that's what they pay and they don't pay any more than that. Um many hospitals, you may recall just um couple of years ago, they had hospitals all over the country raising concerns because Medicaid made certain cuts in terms of rates they were going to pay and they felt that was going to negatively impact their ability to perform. But there was nothing they could do about it because when the federal government sets its rates, people accept it or they don't accept it. So each time a person who does not have insurance uh and is indigent uh calls an ambulance, they build Medicare. Medicare pays what they're going to pay and that's it. And it's less than what they want to bill and they build a difference to the person and the person doesn't pay it. Well, because they're dealing with people who don't have jobs or income or that kind of thing, there's no way to collect it otherwise.

Just one question. So, I don't know if it's possible, but I still feel like this this doesn't make sense because even if you have private insurance, they don't pay what the hospital's asking. Private insurance does the same thing. And I can attest to it cuz I have a child with a messed up tendon. They have an amount they want to charge and they say allowable amount. All insuranceances have that. So, I would Can we get more information from Medic one to compare, example, a private insurance person versus Medicaid? Because I don't believe it's that different. This sounds like a I I'm I'm not buying it is what I'm saying, I guess.

Nor am I really. Um because if you'll remember, as I said, I got into this about 4 months ago, I believe it was, and that's easily verifiable. Uh Brian can tell you when he told me in the first meeting that I went to but you'll recall before this issue came formally to the commission that I had sent you all uh information I got from many you'll recall one sheet on the back was a spreadsheet with different colors on the rows and each of those colors on the sheet indicated different formulas they were using to choose how they were going to raise $2,500,000 that they were going to get. One of them um took a higher one of them had like a $10,000 flat fee plus uh adding on to it number of calls and then um uh a rating dealing with the um um standard equalized valuation of that uh city or community. And then another one was like a 50,000 flat fee plus a smaller uh rate that was applied against the SEV of the community which meant that lesser amount charged against the communities that had real high values. In other words, had greater ability to pay. Yeah. And uh but all three of those were on those sheets. Uh, and on the back side

of the sheet showed what um I believe it had the SEV of each of the communities. It had um a lot of different information about current situation and what the current amount was that uh was being built. I think ours was we were paying $100,300 I believe is what we were paying before, but it had all the communities and what they were paying before. So all the information was there and was provided in advance of this thing finally uh having to be done. my and my only concern because I I I actually agree with the mayor prom in terms of we need to figure figure this out, but I also think we need to go back to the negotiating table um with them um because they know that we have a city income tax and I just feel like it's an unfair burden that they're putting on our community and they can say what they want to. It is racially motivated because it's a black community and because you and we have a we're a city of four square miles. It's cheaper. It's not that much for us to go back and forth like that. And so I think they can do better and they should do better. And hopefully he will come in here and they should do better. Can't believe Darwin brought this crap in here in the first place like that.

Uh if I may and have a seat. Yes, you can have a you can so many times. Yeah, I've been in here today. Yeah, have a have a seat. Can I take Go ahead. Come on. Have a seat, people. Y'all getting beside yourself when you Thank you, sir. Thank you.

I was just going to say that the appearance given here to for was that there was no negotiation. the uh supposedly the opportunity was there for us to express an interest in which one of those formulas that we would like and I didn't like any of them because they weren't just as you said they weren't appropriate. I made the statement to him that when you're talking about the number of runs they make, a run from anywhere in Benton Harbor to the hospital is 10 minutes. A run from one of these townships way down at the other part to here could be a half hour to 45 minutes each way and might cost more than 20 runs from here in the city. But they chose what they wanted to choose and did what they felt like they could do. And as a matter of fact, the city really ought to look at uh working with some of the other communities to see if we can't find another way to get service uh uh besides medic one because we got raised 156,000. Benton Township got raised 300,000 I believe. St. Joe's was like a little over 60,000 and Lincoln Township was a little over 60,000. Um but uh as you said many of these other communities with much greater ability to pay and there they had a consultant there at a meeting they had just before they took their vote who said in the meeting you don't make any money on these rural calls. And that's

what he was alluding to. The amount of time and and and investment you make in every rule call because of the distance. That's right. Rule the time for the people, the wear and tear on the vehicles, all of it. say is a rural call if you're running 12, 15, 19, 20ome miles is going to be much higher than if you're running from Benton Harbor to the hospital or from Benton Township to the hospital. Mr. Dunkey,

I want to say crap again. Mainly because we haven't got an apology for that. I like I like to start my conversation saying that if I as a citizen come in here and start talking about crap and saying a whole lot of other things like that, you'd be beating on the counter or whatever it is you're up there on. You would escort me out of here because I wouldn't stop. I just keep saying it until sometime in the future I'd come in and apologize and I'd be back order I'd be able to come back in here. And I'm a citizen, but I'm not going to let anybody and I don't care who it is. It can be any one of y'all disrespect the other. And I'm sitting in the room. I'm just a citizen, but I'm a concerned citizen right now. Before I go any further, I want wherever that crap came from, I want an apology from it or for it right now so the citizens can hear that we are doing things the correct way here. If not, I can't do anything about it. What can I do? What can I ask him is he is he ready to apologize or if he will or if he won't or I got something I want to say other than this crap.

So I'll I'll say what the the comment um that Mr. Little said and I heard what you said. So you heard what I heard. Now let the man talk. So but did you hear what what he was saying? I heard everything he said. He said what was said about him was crap. I heard what he said, but it was in a meeting in a in a public meeting. And another word could have been used. Uh I have to I have to make sure I don't say a lot of things in here because you guys are I agree with you, Mr. Um Duncan. It's a lot of things that I want to say that I don't say.

I agree with you. Do you will you get on ask the city manager? I will not ask the city manager. He's sitting there. You don't have to. And matter of fact, I don't even want to hear it anyway cuz it wouldn't be sincere because other to me it didn't come immediately. So what the hell is it? It's the same. So go on with your meeting. May I please go on? just go on with your meeting. You got to do that. I would prefer on on Front Street. But I don't like him putting nobody else on Front Street.

That's Front Street. You just open your mouth and say something like that. I didn't appreciate it and it wasn't even directed directly towards me. Thank you for your comments, Mr. Duncan. Madam Chair, right? But I'm I'm stuck on stupid. Do you have a question about the Cuz right now we're discussing the the the the dollar ride issue. So that's the main for me that's more important than these words. Okay. Dollar ride, not the dollar ride. The medic one. That's what's important right now. They trying to take dollarized service and we need to fight about that. I My fight is Yeah, we need to fight about that. I'm here to to make a suggestion. Okay.

About medic one. Please tell Medic one they full of crap. I agree. And that we are not we are not going to be I agree. I don't care. This was happening 3 4 months ago 3 years ago that it didn't come here. You guys didn't know anything. Now here it is and the citizens got to give up their cit their money to pay the bill. That's where I am in the conversation.

City income tax. If it wasn't for the citizens in Ben Harbor, and a lot of a lot of y'all up there didn't even want to vote for it, but the citizens made it happen. And every every time something comes up, a big money situation, this we have no money. We have nothing but Oh, we got city income tax money. We'll pay city income tax. I'd like to make a suggestion about city income tax and then I'll be finished. I'd like to see I like to know what's what we're what we have what we're working with and what they're going to take all of what they're going to take out because I've heard a couple of things that city income tax is going to handle it. uh might come back, might not come back. Get a listing of what we're going to pay so the citizens can know where the money is going. And I don't want you guys to ever get off of being in the know about city income tax money because citizens are more that's what we're interested in. We know it's supposed to go towards us and doing things directly to and for us, not paying bills, but we are willing because we are great citizens. That's why we asked for city income tax in the first place. So when any of this mess and another thing, everybody medic I could name off a couple other names but I won't. They are attacking us because they know we have this money and we can back them up off of it right now

because Medic one is going to have to do what we need them to do or so much and I I agree 100%. So I will I think um some this needs and I think before agree for anything with them. We need to go back and tell them we need to renegotiate. Tell them to come here and renegotiate with us.

Yeah. They're coming back to um um finance the finance committee's meeting to talk about this and hopefully city manager when they come back you'll have a proposal, one that um you know that we can discuss um because I don't agree with this. They know that we have this money and it no we're not giving y'all nothing. Y'all need to give us a fair price for our for those services. Let's take advantage of the opportunity when he comes to the meeting that uh commissioner said he was coming to to I mean you all know the elected commissioners confront them and ask him the and if I could while I'm to you madam chairwoman and everyone in the room anybody listening I will apologize for the uh poor choice of uh words and using the term crap. At the moment I was attempting to avoid the saying that the allegation that I knew something 6 years ago was an outright lie. I chose instead that Illum chosen uh use of word. But the material I referred to on that sheet where the backside it would show you that back during the 80s and the '9s and up until recently recently the city paid $11 and something per person in the city. And what this increase was designed to do was to take that up to somewhere above $22 per person. and and that's what occurred.

They used it there was a sheet the sheet on the back where they put all of this uh we had over 10,000 people. So now we have even fewer people. Why is it still because instead of it being $11 per person, it's 22. It's double. So we didn't lose half of our people. We only lost maybe say a thousand. And but Right. But then this then they doubled the price to get the same. Exactly.

And as you said it was deliberately done to uh impact Benton Harbor and Ben Township primarily and then secondarily it uh impacted um city of St. Joe and Lincoln Township. So, I just have one quick question. I'm going to re-review that chart you're talking about cuz I don't I just need to reread it. But my question is, I know you mentioned that none of the formulas made sense. Can we create a formula to present that does make sense?

I'm going to put together information. I was going to do that, but I've been so busy trying to handle other stuff and emails. I'm gonna put a request together assistant city manager for create a um yeah we're gonna we're gonna request do a foyer to get the information that we need because really the information that we need is with this so-called huge number of trips exactly how much money did they get from uh whoever whatever source for those trips because I wouldn't be surprised if

even with the part the bill not being paid if they might not have gotten far more money from the number than what they're getting from out here in the rural areas. I I I had an injury at work and I had to call um I fail and I had to call the ambulance and my insurance paid and then they still tried to send me a bill and I know the insurance I have really good insurance. Um yeah

and that's standard uh these EOBS explanation of benefit uh when I go to the doctor first one comes from Medicare then the second one comes from blue cross and b and basically they kind of tell you this is not a bill uh but you may be charged this amount and uh you do

get those But I I think um um this is this deserves more conversation cuz I just don't agree with paying them this amount of money. This increase is ridiculous and it's racially motivated. I don't care what they say. And city clerk, we need a chart. We need we need all of that. And I'm saying that to you cuz I know you know I do all of those charts and all that stuff like that. We need they need to see. Is it possible to get that chart resent? The formula chart. Yeah. Yeah. That

um is there any more questions about this or comments about this particular item? I'm making a recommendation that it goes back to um personnel and finance for further discussion renegotiation. Have any questions commissioner or comments about this particular item before we end? Okay. It's going to go back to uh personnel and finance because I don't agree with this. All right. I agree. All right. This is I think that's the last item on the agenda unless there's anything else. All right. This meeting is a journ. Huh? Public comments. I'm sorry. Public comments. Comments.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, sir. Thank you. I'm glad you came. You're going to you're going to get all the information uh all the information the files passed even as far as when the uh uh city manager came on board even before that. So they're going to at the at the next meeting Wednesday uh personnel and finance more it'll be uh more detailed about what they're asking and why just like a trail to see like um Yeah.

So they're going to show up at the meeting. Yeah. That Brian from Medic one is coming to represent what he presented and that's our opportunity. Darwin presented presented. Will Darwin be here with you? I hope not. Well, I hope not too, but I think he should be since he had the nerve the nerve dog capacity come in here and and and and attack the citizens like that because it is an attack on I agree.

No, the only money it is is what the citizens made possible. Uh the southeast corner of M union and and Main Street. I've talked with pretty much talk till I'm blue in the face. Not really blue, but I asked that it be taken care of. City manager had somebody go out there and clean it up. That's what they call cleaning it up.

Yeah. But that's what they call cleaning it up when they can go in and whatever is on the ground, you just run the lawn more over it. Glass. All that glass, man. I was all pretty much all afternoon trying to I got Hey, he they mold it today, Mr. Duncan. No, this was I don't know the corner where the house burned at the house burned down. We cleaned the house up, but the lot is still there. You talking about on the lot or in the street? I'm talking both.

They cut the grass and the and the probably the glass flew in the street and on the sidewalk from that. Is that Is that what you're saying? I don't know how it got on the street. I don't know how it got cut up. I know it got cut up all over the grass. So, somebody trying to drive through there if they was trying to do some some city work or something. You going to destroy city tires. I'm not driving through, but I saw all that glass. And I did go over there the last time I told you I went over there and got up the glass. Then to

Wow. Today is twice as much glass over there as it was that day. I got over half of it. Um,

the reason I was asking is because I was at the uh, Union Park baseball field Saturday and I drove up through there and I went through there last night again checking, but there were cars parked on both sides of the road cuz I had to stop there at uh, Main Street for one car to come through before I could go So, it may have been glass up under those cars. I just didn't see it. They probably I probably put them there. I just want to make sure that it's duly knowing. Yeah,

that I I've pretty much taken care of it other than cutting it. I did chop down some of that. If you go through there on your way home or wherever you go, come back. Uh you'll see the junior side which is is cut some of the corner, but I did pick up everything. We thank you for it, sir. I I cut the union side. It's not my job. I understand. I don't mind doing it because this is my community and you guys are too damn slow. I said damn. I should have said damn.

Or strike that from the record. Yeah. Strike that from the uh use a different word. Miss

I don't want to start I don't want you guys to start the idea of saying curse words because it is easy for me. I could I mean just naturally do this. And I've had Darwin Watson try to walk me out of here when I said something I shouldn't have said. I'd had uh what's that other city manager name? Whatever his name is. We call this Mitch. He want to ex have had me moved out of this out of the a public meeting physically come to get me. So that's what words to get you. And I don't want to get I don't want nobody caught up in the word game because I know I can I felt I felt like a enemy and I that that don't nobody want me to be their enemy and I don't want nobody to be my enemy.

We hear you Mr. Duncan. I appreciate you. I really do. I really do. That corner is your corner from now on. I'm not going I won't say I won't. I'll go by there and look at it this evening. Sir Duncan, is there any other public comments? Okay. I'd like to ask this is this particular meeting um that you're oversee is about finance. No, it's not. It isn't legislative.

Legislative. Okay. But would it be okay if I asked something in regards because it was talking about the in city income tax and stuff like that and I'd like to ask uh Mr. Little, the budget is due this month. Is that budget ready to be submitted? It is not yet, but we will have it ready to submit by the 18th. uh which is earlier than we normally would have it, but we've got to meet that deadline in order to meet the terms to be able to try to get this loan that we're trying to get done. So, we're working double time on it to try and have it ready. As a matter of fact, we're going to present you a rough draft uh on the 13th at the uh uh personnel and finance committee meeting next Wednesday.

Okay. Thank you. And one of the other things that I heard uh Mr. Duncan mentioning about the streets being I think I've been to Mr. Little and I asked him about a month ago just about it. Now, we try to keep the drains open because once those drains get clogged up, we got um foliage, another word for greenery coming up and out of those because there's been so much soil has collected in there and it builds up and then we got a problem with those drains. Would it be easier to take care of a matter that's will compromise those dreams before it happens rather than to let it happen then they say well we don't have the money to do this that when you could go ahead and get that up. That's the thing that I'm asking. I've had mine cleaned out. I pay for to clean up that whole block that I'm in because I don't have any other houses but mine facing May Street and within that block that I'm facing May. And so I'm concerned because there has been occasions where before they were cleaned out, water would gather all as far as the sidewalks. That's disturbing to me cuz that's my property and I have to be take care of it. So I'm just asking on the other side. I'm getting older. I can't do what I want to clean up and push down these streets. And I don't see what would be wrong for the city because he had went and even put forth a what you call it a work order to have that done. It has not been done. So I think that should be a timely thing to take care of some matters rather than to let it be destroyed and then we say, "Well, we don't have no money. We're broke anyway." Take care of

that. That side of the street, my side of the street is clean. But on that side of the street, they changed the sidewalks. And what they did was push the soil where that soil was drained down into the curb side. So it should have been that they have someone, the engineers or whoever it is responsible to check behind the people that is doing the work so that it be properly done. soil like that and build up like that should not be left there because it'll wash to the drain and they done told me and I got a piece of paper there that I went across instructing us that we can clean around it but we can't clean it out. So if it I leave it there till it builds up and everything. That's not the right thing for them to do is to let it just collect like that and I shouldn't have to be responsible to clean over across the street. I'm sure that Baron County they say owns that piece of property that is from. So I thought of even going over there complaining to them about the way that even that lot looks. But that curbside was done from Ben Harbor's perspective. So I'm wanting to know how soon can I look. I've asked and I asked. So what more can I do?

Madame Commissioner, I appreciate your presenting your concern and a perfectly civil manner and I'm more than happy to answer. After having met with you and talked about that, I think I told you I went over personally myself and looked at the drains in front of the one that's right at the edge of your driveway and one directly across the street from it. This past Tuesday, as I do every other odd week between commission meetings, I in my normal meeting with U um FNV and uh city engineer, I informed them that I wanted to start wanted them to start right away. Part of FNV's contract included a provision that they are to clean a certain percentage of the storms I mean of the sanitary sewers. Uh but because the sanitary sewers we just had that company in here that did the cameras through all of them and cleaned them all out. We had them do instead of sanitary sewers, we have them cleaning a certain percentage of the storm sewers. And I just gave them yours. The one over by Nate Wells uh Avenue in front of that church that stops up. The one at the top of the hill there at 717 KFax. a couple one there at that corner that May and um uh Union that one always gets water all because of stop.

They will be starting within the next two weeks to go to those and cleaning them out and season will be over practically by then.

It may be, but that's the earliest that they'll be able to do it. Uh but again, back to the problem. The problem is that our citizens don't do what you used to do when you were able to. They don't clean those uh uh curbs. And if you go up and down the street, I went down several today. You will see when people are cutting grass, all that grass is blown right out there in that curb. And then on top of it, you get leaves and things that people push out there. And what that does is catches all the sand and dirt and so forth that comes down there and and it just when rain comes, it just carries it all right to that storm drain and drops it in there and it sits there and builds up until water can't go in there anymore. and uh where we do the best we can to try and clean them as often as can, but it's a part of this whole big mix that we're talking about of of city work and limited workers to do it. But we're going to get those done and those will be done in the next few weeks.

Well, one of the things I had ran on, we're going to take care of the city's business and less excuses

because then we have excuses about why this and that isn't done. But this is a city that is small popula population a small what is it five or 10 mile I mean minutes across either way you go it's not that much seemed like it would be awesome if we could the many years that I gotten out there should have been an example to make them get out there if I get out there and try to do it now and pass out they said well don't she know she too old to be pushing us out like that I want to see some results we our people that have some kind of uh respect for ourselves. The least we can do is keep our area clean.

And I agree with you entirely. Uh and that's the only way it's ever going to really change is that the citizens themselves get out here and start cleaning the yards, cutting down these bushes, cleaning up the stuff that's in the gutter on the street and whatnot, like they do in every other town in America. That works. And I'm going say this before I leave though.

There's been many time people come from other communities and has dumped their stuff right in our community cuz I reported one because I recognized her business. I remembered the boxes because I was doing my business came from the same place and I reported it. Her book uh dumpster was full and running over. So she had them dumped right in our little curve coming into the inner part of Benton Harbor from the township area. So it's not all of our people that is doing that. It's people that come stop at the stop sign, dump cigarette butts right at the stop sign and things like that. But I'm just saying that if other communities get their sweepers come down through there once a week,

but I don't see why it doesn't work for us. But if you I I did some cleanup work a couple weeks ago um with a cleanup and there were so many leaves. The street sweeper can't push those leaves. That's what we running into them trying to sweep leaves and they'll get caught up in those rotors. I was at Burger King in St. Joe and I watched the street sweeper go around but how he was spraying it down but it wasn't nothing on there. It was nothing in the street. You got on Kofax right now. This it's probably a gang of leaves and if the streets sweep go down there tow up. But what I'm saying

that's why that's why the street sweepers have a sprayer because the sprayer is intended to keep the dust down when they go through. But it's never made to dig out mud and leaves. And the only thing I want to say too, if we would do it on a regular basis, it would never build up to that point. in some places. This saying from that sidewalk that piled up there

we're we're going to try and get as much of that done. supervised and not really I I've called uh to get arrangements made to for them to come in and contact us so we can assign them. But let me also mention one other thing just as a reminder. I mentioned just a week or so ago that we're going to try to get out here and do something with these alleys and so forth where we've got mattresses and furniture and all kind of junk laying in the alleys. Now understand what that means. That means that there are going to be three or four workers doing that that will not be doing other stuff like we're talking about because the difference between Benton Harbor's workforce and St. Joseph's workforce, I'll bet you they got 30 people in their public works department. We got about eight. And one of the other things that I'm going to have done in the personnel finance commission meetings coming up, I've instructed the uh um uh Miss Gall that I want her to prepare a report each month to show the number of people in each section in public works, in this building, and in public safety. and then to show the number of paid time off days that they have and how many they've used within that month period. Because see, that's another thing that people are missing. When you got eight or nine people in public works and they're all in the abs union, they get x number of days off. They got sick time and personal time and they have a right to use it. When they use that, that shortens that whole crew and there's

nothing they can do but go forward and do what they have to work with on that particular day. And this happens continuously. Same thing in this building. I look up sometime and person I rely on to do a certain thing is gone. I got to jump up and go do it, you know, because I don't have anybody else. last complaint. I know that's what y'all call everything we say Mickeyro Park. How close? I mean, are we trying still to get somebody to open up that bathroom and keep it clean down there, or are we going to just going to continue with two portaotties and a thousand people, little kids, grown people, two portaotties? Are we secondass citizens or third class citizens or fourth class citizens or what?

Respectfully talking about this for a long time and you you and he's gone. Mr. Try and Mr. Try. Hey, you know something? I am so tired of seeing us try. Thank you, Mr. I'd like I haven't asked a question yet. So, I haven't asked a question yet, though. I'm in a hurry, too. I I thought you did. You asked we're going to have somebody down at the door, and I'd like to answer. Excuse me.

Oh, I see. You asked if we were going to have somebody down there to open up the bathrooms. I'd like to answer. And you see I didn't answer yet, but what I was going to say is that Oh, yes, I'll be trying. But what we're going to do to try is we're going to take some of these summer youth that we have and assign some of them to monitor those parks and open those restrooms up while we got people there to keep an eye on them. But when they leave, we're going to have them locked up because I don't want them things I don't want them fixes broken up and messed up the way they've done before and they're still doing. I don't want anything messed up. Understand?

That's why we should have we should not just try to get somebody to see we don't have manpower. We don't have we don't have a lot, but we got we got city income tax and that down there is an emergency. When when somebody go, two people go to the bathroom and four people got to go, two of them go behind it and two of them go down next to the river. It's an emergency and I don't think you guys you don't come to the river. So you don't I do

you don't I'm Did I point at you and say you I do too. Okay. Well, most of you guys don't come to the river. I I have to be real specific with you guys. Did I point at you, too? You did. Oh, well, y'all y'all just so sorry. We're going to do the very best we can to try and have them open as much as we can.

I don't want to hear try one more time. We got city income tax money. If anything we talk about medic one, damn Medic one. Let's think about our our property and our citizens at the same time. Thank you, Mr. Can we um can we use can we use city income tax to get somebody down there to keep that clean from now on we don't have to move because I be here every okay I'll be here every time and I'll be saying the same

at next week at the personnel and finance committee meeting which deals with the finance let's ask commissioner Ism to see if we can figure out how we can pay for that cuz you said we going to try nope I'm saying ask that question you told me just a second ago. We going to try and that's what I'm trying to get us out of. So, is there a way you know the the park rangers that drive around in the cars? Can we assign them to do the clean to check the bathrooms? The park rangers. We are you're talking about the parking attendants.

The parking attendants. Can we put that in their rotation? cuz a lot of times as they're making rounds, they can be they can carry buckets and and all of that kind of stuff to clean.

I doubt they that we can get them to clean. I think we lose them if we try to do that. But I think what we can do is set that up as part of the work for some of the summer workers that we have and try to do it that way. Um uh you know what the real problem is is we don't have the money to pay full-time people enough to do that. We're we're having our share of problems still with our janitor right here in city hall. Had a call hour ago about some of the Yeah. All right. This um meeting is a jarred.