County Council - Regular Meeting

program with Northeastern Center. Their representative is coming over daily to meet with students to talk with them about anything they have going on, do some assessments and some referrals. One of the things that we are doing as part of that grant program is having the student finish a really short four or five question survey after they meet with her just saying how they felt that it went and do they think it's useful, did they find it helpful, things like that. And so far, those survey results have all been positive, so it seems like it's off to a good start. That is a two year grant, so that will go for this school year and next school year.

I have a quick question. Can I get a copy of it? Yes, you can. I can give you one today.

Questions? All right. Whatever adult funding is continually forecasting it.

I tried to bump it off all other ones that you can. So much of it seems that it's deleted, so I just wanted to give some updates on some of the things that we have been discussing regarding the funding, the grants, alternatives and things like that. The first one is. the state associations, both for community corrections and for correlation, both presented at the summer study committee for corrections in Gromovo at the end of August. And it was interesting because we had a chance to kind of preview their presentation about the grant funding and what kind of consequences are already happening or expected to be happening because of the budget cuts and things like that. And they were lower down on the program, so they actually presented after Judge Spitzer from Judges Association and the Press Committee, Attorneys, Counselors, and Counselors. And by the time they were up to do their presentation, everything had already been said by all those other groups. Everybody kind of with the same message, the same presentation. So theirs was a little bit shorter and condensed because they felt like they would compete in what was already said. There is a big push at the state level to move that funding to the Criminal Justice Institute and to no longer have it be handed out and administered by the Department of Corrections. So that's something that we'll definitely be keeping an eye on. The other thing is there's been a lot of support, I would say, from some legislators that they wanted to make sure they had the funding restored to prior levels. along with the middle, but either way that is fine. So we'll keep an eye on that and hopeful that some of that does go through so that we have a little bit more stable foundation and not as much question about what's going to be happening. So the next topic under that is something that we have already noted on in this to start running their concert program. We do have a vendor selected and we are set to start that on September the 24th because we've never done before. It's kind of open ended for us as far as what it will look like and what kind of revenue we might be able to make off of it. But we did go ahead and create a 2027 budget so that we would be able to spend some money out of that account if it's money. So hopefully 24 people go smoothly and that will be up and running and I can give an update next time we meet. Third thing I had on there was the discussion from our last meeting about our electronic monitoring fees, daily fee. That was something that we had discussed briefly and then. We had discussed last time our request to raise the daily monitoring fee for the GPS. home detentions, 50s for adults, evasion pay for females, and $10 for females if a woman is able to possibly need to pay. This was something that we tabled because we had some questions about how some of the other counties were formulating their fees, such as having the daily PSMMR percentage or the daily PSMMR for one hour's wage for that particular person. And we had questions about how much our current receipts are paid. So I haven't collected that info. It is, I provided the original chart on one side. If you're happy with that, you can flip it over. There is the chart of the additional notes that was requested. So the first box is really just showing six months worth of fees, January to June of 2026. The number of days that we serve people on electronic monitoring and communication. that was 74 participants, their raise worth. One of the questions that we had last time was how many of them are on disability or retired. So we'd be expected to pay only the minimum fee, and that's about 13 and a half percent. At $12 a day, which is our current rate, we were collecting $68,100. The average hourly pay for participants that we had from January to June was $19.81. So the average was obviously over what would be either the 15 minimum or whatever number we decide would be the best for that daily minimum. And so that I wanted to provide the different options. If we did only $15 a day for all participants, that's an additional, it's not an additional 25%, $70,000 in project income fees. If we do $15 on one hour's wage, which is one of the options, that's about an additional 60%, $40,000. total 108 for a six month period and then. And we did a percentage. I wasn't actually sure what percentage to use, so I guess to one that was similar to what a one hours wage would be up either 12 or 13% and you can see those numbers there. As we discussed last time, our preference would be to, if we were going to do one of the other options, would be to do the one hour's wage. Figuring the percentage is a staff-intensive process. We do have to collect people's pay stubs each week to see what they made, to figure out what the percentage is after you take out certain other things. We do that for residential. I would say that it's easier for residential because those folks are obviously in buildings for a number of hours every day. So we have the ability to ask them to go get their phone, get their digital pay stub, get it emailed over to us, things like that. That becomes, there's, I think, some significant barriers with that from home detention people because we can't see those individuals every day when we see the residential buildings. The home detention folks would be making phone calls, tracking them down, getting the pay stub from them. And I actually think it'd be really more time intensive for our staff than going with the one hours wage route, which is something that we can determine their one hour wage, put it into the computer as a recurring fee, and the computer will do that for us every day, but not any additional work from the staff. And depending on the percentage we would decide it, it may not be worth the additional effort, if that makes sense, what I'm trying to say. The only question we have to determine on the one hours wage is what we're going to do for people that say are business owners or a phone assistant or something like that, because that wouldn't be necessarily reflected in their one hour's wage. And if they're a business owner and don't pay themselves an actual paycheck, which we have had, we probably have to come up with a quick calculation divided by a certain number of hours per year or however we'd like to do it.

Yeah, they weren't paying themselves, but they still have at least $15 a day.

Yes, not sure it's an accurate representation of their income from. No, it's not fair to other people that you give me an hour.

Ways of calculation, maybe. Get part of the power.

So that's why I think it's important, depending on which decision we go with to make sure we answer. As many of those questions as we can think of today. Anything.

Must be an absolute.

We have put this off for some amount of time. The need we have here because of the changes in state and what they're doing with brands.

I did want to give some amount of appreciation.

You know, last time we talked about, you know, we're going to do this. Let's really take a look at those numbers. Michelle took an extensive amount of time to look at what the possibilities were and then putting

this together to take a look at what our average pay is around here at 19.

And as you can see, even in a six-month period, that $40,000 difference for us. That is what I would request and support, is staying the prospective fee of $50,000 and your one-hour wage. I mean, really what we're talking about is just a very small amount of outliers for your business owners to sell. is looking at that right now and saying if there's some discussion to be had on that, hoping that we could have that today and have people directing us on what that should look like so that we can start moving forward with draft and policy as soon as possible. That financial, I don't want to call it a shortfall. Yeah, it's something we are... you know, we don't have many people at the base drop. So we'd like to move on that as soon as possible.

So if you have feelings on that, we'd like to get it vetted today so we can start moving on policy. I think we ought to break it into the two boats. One is, do we want to choose which program? Let's say we choose the $15 per day or $100 wage. And then the next one is let's figure out what we do about people that are self-employed. So we don't bunch together. Let's just figure out which program we want to do first. Figure out for the outliners. I'm going to charge there.

I agree with that part. I think the tricky part to me is what Michelle was talking about is how do we figure out what that, you know, landscape company, self-employed guy, know what what his weekly income is and then how do we determine what's fair that person i agree with the 15 minimum one hour wage i think that's very easy to calculate and i assume salaries and broken down into okay they make 1500 a week salary and that's divided by 40 i guess that's there yeah i think um one idea

kind of idea for when it's self-employed business owner would be possibly ask them to provide instead their annual, maybe their annual from a prior year, and then support already 2080 hours, I think, or something like that. Maybe just divided by that and then that could be considered their hourly wage, but.

I think the government standard for. 2000. 2000.

The tricky part in that calculation to me is are you taking gross income or are you taking after all the deductions for the equipment, truck, $26,250 that they're deducting off and, you know, I think, I don't know how to put that stuff on the account and pay it apart to me.

But I'd like to hear your experience.

In other words, in other words, you take you take person to figure out what the scenario is $50 a day, right? Yeah, let's say.

And you take 25% of their growth.

Well, I think that's why there's different choices, right?

I know there are different choices.

If we want to do a percentage across the board, we can do a percentage across the board.

Well, that's what I'm saying. It would be useful.

I can do it myself. So we have self-employed individuals making $600,000 a year.

We have a maximum daily net because if we just say straight percentage, they can be paid.

And that's happened.

That has happened.

We've had them in residential work facilities that make an exorbitant amount of money. Oh, I put one up. Yeah. And it was a very high income. I mean, I got it.

Maybe it lags a little bit. The difficulty is this is a program of choice, not force.

And so they chose residential ward facility and we're appreciative of the opportunity, regardless of the fact that they have our lights on. So, I mean, just with that percentage, and that part of UF is an easier one. That's hard to say. You know, it's an easier one to look at and say, this is just the situation you're in because of what you make.

or that individual may be an easier decision because it's a prison order or RWF with the ability to keep that pie painted out. And like you say, yeah, there's definitely a difference in the nuances that are there.

We see a limited amount. I don't see, Butler, you have trailers back there. You have some standard rate, real low, but then you got page pay and this and that, and they're really changing the way they make it.

And those are calculations that, as Michelle describes, there's a couple of areas.

differentiated categories in there that we want to make sure you find the equality there, but for the. Is it? Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty limited amount of people that we have to figure that out. And they're doing part of me, but we'd like to move on with the ones all the rest of the standards as soon as we can and then progress with the self employed. keeping the current standard at the minimum until we get that figured out and appropriate?

I definitely, yeah, I think that that's an option. And then if there's specific information that we want to collect on, I would say that I'm not sure that we have that in the strictly self-employed people that aren't providing themselves with a paycheck with an hourly wage on it, but it has happened. And so that's the reason I wanted to bring it up. it is definitely a more rare occurrence than just being able to calculate one of these other forms. So if we want to move ahead with making a decision for the majority of the population and then come back to the question for self-employed, we could do that. If we have one between now and then, I think maybe we'll have to speed the decision along. Some idea of what we would be able to do. Because knowing fears are between maybe this decision and maybe our next meeting if we do happen to have some way in that exact situation to monitor the program, then we would have to make a determination at that point.

What's I'm I'm I'm where I'm at, which is the general rule that you're not based decision or voice my opinion on sitting. So I feel sufficiently informed that what I'm saying.

Is what I believe is the correct way

What's the number or the goal for project revenue that we're trying to get as close as we can to breaking even?

I think as more we need to try to set these fees and understanding that you may not. But you know you have different percentages here. We have this, let's see.

$15 per day or 13%. Are we just not even?

Well, this is not going to be the only solution that we're going to have to our short-term income. There's a couple other things. We're still going to talk about other things that also help us in that area. Also, I'm pretty sure I put it on there. The County Council has voted to take over our building maintenance and all the related costs. So that's going to be very helpful. So really wasn't, I guess, working backwards on this. It was more trying to decide how we can come up to the level that other counties across the state are charging for their services and make sure we're trying to do it in a fair and proportionate way also for the participants. Obviously we don't want to cause our participants any additional hardship because the fees are so high they can't pay other bills and get paid child support, they can't afford the rent, things like that. So I don't know that I would be able to say which number we should really be shooting for because there are all these other and options that we'll need to help in that area as well. And obviously we really appreciate the Council making that decision in 2027 to take over the building maintenance and the costs that are associated with that because that is around $120,000 worth of contracts and bills and repairs and things like that.

And I would second that, you know. When this discussion came up, obviously, money was the issue, but since Michelle arrived, we hadn't focused on it. I mean, the fees, poker, and everything else was not the focus. It was everything else that was going on here and sustaining, you know, getting those things under control. Fees hadn't been discussed.

And then it was, okay, that's part of the discussion now.

And putting those numbers together, just finding that in that period of time, focusing on part of getting people trained pre-trial and all the other things with taking it over with the transition, we just kind of fell behind our neighbors and then realized that that's one of the things just to be in the average. You should be at 15, no matter what you're doing. You don't want people cherry picking programs.

Well, this one's easier for me. It's less expensive. I'll go over there, that kind of stuff. And then secondarily,

you're not needing inflation, you're not needing the program costs, we have to pay for grants, we gotta pay for equipment, we have to pay for employees, and it was just, it wasn't the main focus.

It never really has been here, you know?

We've stayed responsible and responded to the county commissioner and to the people we serve, but it wasn't our way of helping to figure out how to do that. And when you talk about public service, we're never gonna be a moneymaker, you know? We'd be lucky if we were all human, right? It wasn't, that wasn't never going to be the goal orientation. So I don't know if we have really took that into consideration, but I understand that, you know, looking at it and saying, would any of those numbers get us where we needed to be? We're just trying to make sure that we're competitive and we're staying at a rate that will, that makes sense for their neighbors and for us to contribute equally from project income, grants and county.

So if you have two participants in the program, you've got various slots.

If they're disabled, retired, or whether they make $600,000, the expense for community corrections is the same, correct? Yeah, but if you did a percentage, there's no additional services or workload required based on whether you're retired or your income is $600,000.

third and second program right so that's where i think for me the difficulty is how do you how to use a percentage uh if there was more workload for for the department obviously i could see an increase for the fee of everybody else i gotta agree with the judge it's hard to make a call based on that uh I would plead more towards a flat fee maybe, but then there's a program for somebody that's on disability or something like that.

Maybe they get the fees a little bit lower, but once you get out of that category, maybe it should be just a fixed fee, whatever that looks like.

A fixed fee proposal would be that your minimum fee is $50 and then for one hour's wage, whichever is higher.

If you've got someone who works

focus today is simply set. You simply regardless of the other things you just want to establish. Yeah, and then well.

To me it seems to me that makes notes here is that if we could get some kind of motion said we would have a minimum fee at $15.00. Or one hours. Wage. whichever is higher except for self-employed individual. Now we have to figure out the self-employed.

What was the maximum? There's one out of which.

If you would like to set a maximum, I think that's something that Neil brought up as well.

No, I don't like to set a maximum. In the old days, it was a lot of the sheriff's workplaces were 25% up.

And for some people, that could be a rather significant amount.

But it's kind of like the biblical concept that I think, and I don't want to, you know, the classic thing was, do you want to live on 90% that they've got? Well, that's 100% that it doesn't. It's kind of the same thing. you want to be in jail in urban zero or do you want to be in work really something 75 percent most people will choose 75 percent options so as far as establishing a minimum all right in other words your minimum is fifteen dollars a day or one hour a month but that shouldn't also be your

I look at it from the perspective of we're trying to make this program self-sustaining to the extent we can.

I know that's maybe not possible. That's the goal. I think that was how, and I wasn't in a conversation, but this building and everything was developed. I think the character of the state was able to spend this money and it's going to sustain itself. And the state, obviously the last couple of years, has said, able to hold government, you're going to have If you don't like the revenue you bring, you know that we're not giving you now, raise your taxes. So that's kind of the concept states going at every local municipality now is if you don't have enough money for your services, figure out where it's coming from, which is the goal here. I think is let's produce enough revenue that we help this program sustain itself to the maximum extent we can. That's why I'm a little concerned about the flat fee is that to do that,

That's why I like the one-hour wage because it gives us an opportunity to have a little more revenue because it's flat across the board, but then we have the small outlier group, self-employed group, so we have to figure out what that looks like. I have a question, too, that would be useful, too. I don't know that you would know this, but regardless of where the money comes from, how they contribute to the grant, what What is the actual cost per participant per day per year? How much is that? I'll bet you it is many, many, many. Magnitudes faster. Right, yeah. You know what it is?

I do not have it with me, but also it's typical to always come up with that number because Obviously, the cost for us to supervise somebody on electronic computer comprehension is significantly less than it is for device accessibility. The problem with figuring out what that cost is, is there's so many of our services and our staff time that are split between the programs. So I can't necessarily look at it and say this person only does that because this person only does this.

Sheriff probably knows. There's actually a statute that you can active charge people. And it tells you what you can charge in jail. In other words, you don't get to just sit in jail for free if the county so decides that you can't get in jail. And there's some guidance there. I would expect to know what cost is per person. You know what I mean? Just... In other words, you know, off the top of your head, is it 100 bucks a day? Is it 75 bucks a day? Is it 50 bucks a day?

I mean, we can't slim up the issue. I would agree with Mayor Clark. When you look at it, say the percentage, number one, is something that Michelle and her staff really don't want. It's difficult. It becomes, as you said, it could appear arbitrary in some way, just because this percentage is what you do.

If we can cross that off and look and say, you know, DeKalb County Community Corrections doesn't really believe regardless.

I mean, you look at the flat fees that we're talking about otherwise, it makes zero sense for us not to be just based. After that, looking at one hour's wage, there's a definite gap on the base wage in DeKalb County and 15 anyone. I mean, even our average wage, 19. So you're looking at that and saying, even if we move to a policy that says the base is it, and or one hour of pay, if it exceeds 15, is still a doable number for the majority, if not the overwhelming majority. We're really just talking about a slim number, and I would agree with you. The percentage could seem arbitrary for people who are self-employed, and it's, RWF sets it that way because it's set for each kind of thing. It's informed by sheriff's word program and all the rest of the sheriff's,

work programs in the past because they have expectations of 25%, whatever that is. So they just follow along with that.

And I would agree that you look at somebody and say, well, just because you do this, you get 13%. She's just talking about looking and trying to set a policy that says, somebody says, how can we figure out what their hourly wage is? And we're okay with that. And saying that that is, you know, we're okay with that. But the longer we go out, the more confusing I think it gets. We can just look at some of those parameters and say, these are the things that the Dekalb County Community Correctional Community accept, which is, we do have to come up and be competitive at the base at 15. One hour wage, there's a gap there, and it looks like the majority are going to be over that. And then, and vote later, or try and find a solution to those who are self-employed or have Those are varying wages that are out.

What do you do now with some employees? 12?

Correct everyone right now it's only the flat fee of 12. And so I think when we look at it, you know. Some of the points that I've already For those that are coming out of the program, what they're basically asking for is for an opportunity to be able to remain in the community, continue working at their job, and if they end up being on electronic monitoring, then they have the opportunity to do that, and so they do have to contribute. I don't think one hour's wage is a reasonable thing to ask, but I think the other thing that we need to remember is that Our collection of these projects and companies is going to allow our program to stay at a level that I think everyone has expectations of, right? To retain the staff that we have, to keep offering all of the things that we're offering, to do it in an evidence-based way, and to do it to the highest standards that we think that we can hold. And at some point, if we don't start making these changes quickly, now would be good. We're going to have to start making some other decisions that might affect those things. And if we don't want to do that, then we've got to make some changes.

I told you I'm not going to be a roadblock. I have the philosophical differences in the way I'm looking at it.

You are here because you have committed to crime against the people of the state of Indiana.

You want the luxury of being here, being able to come and go and pursue your employment. That has great value to a lot of people. And I'm just going to leave this conversation right now. I'm not going to vote against, I'm just going to accept that. But the time-worn planning, I heard my grandpa say many, many times, act in haste, and in good leader.

I still think maybe the way to see forward today is to still split into two.

Let's not fix the problem for people that are self-employed, which at most appears to be maybe 48% of the people. Much, much, much slower. Much, much slower.

Those are the people who have to pay the minimum because they're retired or disabled. The self-employed will be.

That's what I just said. You know, I mean, you're still saying things that don't work for me. Let's say a person makes $38 an hour.

Right. Okay.

No, I don't believe they should make $38. Especially not if they're working 40-hour weeks and you have also let them work overtime, Kelly. No, I don't I don't think that I don't think you have paid the price of this kind of date. I just don't think it should be more. You think it should be more than this? Yes. I think it should be a percentage. I mean, why do you draw so the guy's self-employed? Okay. So what? You know, I mean, income is income for whatever source you're on. So what? They're you should not tap the maximum. You should come up with something in what you pay to play. So, but where I am in agreement with you, okay, is if you want to set the minimum, okay, in other words, $15 a day or one hour wage, that is for minimum you pay. You could think about the maximum. It's just, I'm just not going to get there today without sufficient information. Like I said, I'm proud of Peter. It happens sometimes, although I really enjoyed the conversation with him. I just don't think that one-hour wages, what you should pay for the ability to work potentially 50 hours a week at $38, doesn't work for me. We could always revisit it later, and if you want to make it more, but I like the $15 a day or one hour wage, and then that's a minimum of 15 one hours includes the self-employed at $15 a day.

I think that's fair, but I don't know.

Well, that would be the minimum, but that's not the maximum.

What I'd like, but I need somebody to do a motion, is that for today at least, the motion would be that

the minimum amount would be $15 a day for one, whatever one hour's wage is, whichever is higher, except for self-employed individuals. That, I think, at least fixes Michelle's issue for right now. I think we can deal with the other part.

Well, I think that kind of box should be it. I think we like to say it's $15 a day or $1 a week, whichever is low, which considers the people that are working at a minimum wage, people that aren't making $15. Those are the people that may need to be in a program, may need to do things, and they economically don't have the ability to access

$8 an hour, $9 an hour. You'll find some way to make your motion, Kevin. It just ain't going to be this guy. All right. Is there a second on that?

Second. I have a second. Now, are we contemplating in that motion maybe that we hold discussion on the self-employed individuals? Yes.

Yeah, there are more... data or ideas of how to calculate that. And the question is whether you would like to see some data or whether it would be beneficial to see potential, I think it's easier to see potential policy. Because the numbers are just, I mean, you can go all the way. I mean, you can event all kinds of numbers, different scenarios, and we don't know what we'll see. So I don't think it's as communicative as it is to see a policy that says, if there's self-employed, this is how we would calculate that one hour wage. and that's what's compensatory, because that's the standard policy, is 15 one-hours wait. These are for you to look at and say, this is what the policy looks like as somebody who's self-employed or has differentiated pay. This is how they would figure that one-hour wait. That way, they fit into the general policy.

Okay, you could do that, or you could just do a percentage of their gross income.

Sure, I mean, you could, like, if I can do that in a version of

Take how much they made in a year, Michelle said. Get their taxes. Take how much they get a year. Figure out what their gross fee is. The other thing I think this motion does is get these fees put in place.

And then, you know, we have this discussion again in six months, a year, two years, whatever it is. But at least we have a data set now from this point. So at the end of the year, this time next year, okay, this is what this new policy did. much closer to, again, the break even or whatever that number looks like that we're targeting.

And at least to decide, okay, that's not enough or that does work, right? Close to, you know, we at least have that data now, six months, a year, whatever.

So we know what we're voting on is the self-employed, are we holding off on it? Is that $15? Are we going with $15 an hour then? Is that? Well, we're going with $15 a day. or one hour's wage, whichever is higher, you're a self-employed individual. So self-employed is going to be 15.

When we're discussing this, I think we need, and I'll be honest, when we start talking about percentage numbers, I'm lazy, I go off into the world. What we need to remember or decide is, are we a money-making organization? Or are we trying to get enough money to supply or to provide a service to the community to keep vendors working, keep them paying taxes? And they can't do that if they're making $12 an hour and we're charging them, you know, whatever. But it's not going to punish people that are making $38 an hour or charge them $38 an hour, you know, 2% of their income. That number, I think, isn't going to be that big of a difference. And they're still going to be, they're still going to provide enough money to keep them going, rather than people who don't make enough money. And yes, I know I'm coming in circles, but you're paying our due, because I think that we need to provide the service to the community and not worry about how much they make and how much we can get out of them.

Well, that's kind of hard if we're looking at it. What's 25%? How many hours are 25%?

That's like 48 hours a week. Why are you asking that question? Why are you filming for all these people? Yeah, does that answer your question? That we are 50 down the road, the ones that can use the self-employed people.

It is an important discussion to have. It is. Potentially, but I think there are also ways you can consider a max, too, because someone's making $800,000 a year.

I think that's going to be the second question we'll figure out by the next meeting. OK, so there's a motion on the floor. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? I understand. We have one extended aye, so the motion carries. Now second part though is I would like an opening motion for us then to consider what to do about self employed people and Over time. Maybe we can get those numbers for you by the next week. So if we want to add to this. Well, I think you just boxed yourself in.

I think you have an equal protection issue now.

You're going to have to come up with their one hour and that's all you can charge. I think you boxed yourself in. I don't think you can treat people disparately now. So if the person, say, It grows their self-employed gross wages or $600,000 a year. You do the math. $2000 or whatever the government standard is to show up 2080 and I don't know if you're wrong. That's probably that's probably two weeks. Make sure it's good. I think we're going to have to discuss that on the scene. I'm just saying from a legal perspective, I doubt very much you could safely get away with doing anything other than going with whatever an hour would be for self-employment. There really are three commitments.

And I know we didn't really discuss this.

It's kind of, I'm wondering if you need that, but but right now, sitting on the screen board, we are not turning away people who say they're committed. There are people who choose they don't want residential work facility because they say, I won't give you that money. They're like, yeah, but you're going to lose your job. You're like, as you say, zero. But we're not turning away people who can't afford it as well. They're not coming in. I mean, so when you look at that, there's nobody not getting access to this program because of the base wage.

What are you talking about?

We need 12. I mean, not for them now. Nobody's turning it away or being denied because they can't. They say, I can't afford the $12.

They're not getting violated over money either.

Yeah.

We just see the reports. When we do probation violation, that's not one of the grounds for the violation, but we see the amount of money owed in the corrections in the probation violation report so that the judge, in their decision-making, can decide if they want to put them back on it.

I wanted to encourage them to work the overtime and volunteer the overtime. They know they don't get work released during that time, but I know people that I supervise would probably pay more to work release, probably would turn it down, just like men who have to be child support will purposely quit a job until they don't have to give money to that woman.

Very much. You all sit in here, Travis. very unique perspective that doesn't just kind of ties into what he said. I sit in these here every week. They come in for modification and housing. I already have one. What was the last time you were employed? Two weeks ago. Did you get fired or did you quit? I quit. I didn't quit because everyone paid me nine bucks an hour. So now you're zero.

Yeah. How many times have you talked on the When they say I'm worth more than that, how many times you looked at him and said, no, you're not.

I have never actually done that. I tend to try to internalize those kind of thoughts. Alright, well, the next four, five and six are tied into this.

I know. Right, so the other thing that was listed that I think got lost in the conversation was a rate on juvenile competition to similar rates. Right now, it's also a information case that if it's $12, the same as adults are, and if it's parent, it's $7.50. The question is, are we going to raise those to be similar in line with it all, or are we going to leave them at what they were at?

That's a different level of conversation, just so everybody knows. Because if I have to put a child in secure detention at ACJC, it costs me how much a day, Michael?

$200.

And if I have to put them at a youth services center, it costs me how much a day? About $680. six hundred dollars a day and this gets paid by taxpayers okay so it's a different conversation when we have the ability to put it through our pondering and effectively monitor that in terms of how it affects about it is a very different conversation i just want everybody i don't know if everybody knew how expensive it is in places. Then there's another piece that the sheriff is very comfortable with. Lack of availability for secure detention. So the sheriff has a deputy on the road in some place, potentially south of Indianapolis, taking them there. In 48 hours later, we got to have a hearing. They got to go get them and bring them back. And then if I keep them in detention, they got to take them back. And then you got to bring them back for every hearing. So juvenile home detention It's a whole different age.

So my initial feelings as one of the ones who designed the program is to go ahead and say I would like what I pay for a pre-trial juvenile who we determined instead of placement at ACJC would be placed on electronic monitor home detention. We wanted that to be the base rate of what they would drive per day, but I pay that out of care and Now, everybody understands that $15 a day for the county is a hell of a lot less. It's option to use that under the statute to have the lease restrict. If we, through a risk assessment determination from the officers, feel that they can be placed on that safely, and in fact, without getting detention, I think that for the county savings, even at the base rate, it's still an extensive money savings of $15 a day. Now, the parent pay, I understand. Number one, the pre-adjudication, the pre-determination of guilt. So we wanted that at cost. We wanted that at what she would have, what community correction would have to pay, because determination of guilt has not been made. It is in their best interest, but the parent is responsible even prior to the determination of guilt. So we wanted that at That's where those determinations came to me myself at the very beginning.

So there's some potential for class 11. What do you mean?

No. So the determination right now is that I would pay $15 a day out of care, so we pay $200

from 12 to 15 in the base what I pay county-wise, I would make the recommendation that it's still acceptable to agree to out of the day. And the pre-trial is not a big deal. I mean, we're talking three days. Well, you get a third day and a holiday. I mean, four or five. I mean, that's... Yeah. When you go back to court, there's now an initial hearing where a judge makes a determination whether they continue to stay on that program. to be county pay, or whether the parent has capability to pay, and then they move on.

Okay, so you're using the term pre-trial. Well, yeah. It's not everything prior to pre-trial. You're using the term pre-trial to mean everything prior to your first appearance in court. Prior to the initial hearing. It's a little different than in the adult world where pre-trial,

So what are we looking for?

That the probation referral rate would match the decision that was made for adult this 15th day and then the second number that we got was an RV sales for personal responsibility. We had suggested at the last meeting, did that go from 750 to 10 today? Just running some costs as we've been talking So what's your what's your scenario where they show up as the initial error?

I've determined that nobody prescriptively continue them on electronic monitoring and then parents have, you know. I'm ordered to pay. Right. It's a care mandate. Right. So we're set the number you essentially made the payment. Same cases where that's probably going to feel the reality is going to come close to 50% profit?

Well, I can give you a scenario. I can give you two. A juvenile kept on that for 60 days, right? 350, 100 bucks. And my last juvenile bill for one juvenile, one month, you know, two grand, no, four grand per So I'm willing to pay a couple hundred dollars at any time. I understand.

That's really why I wanted to make sure everybody sitting around who doesn't deal with this knows what that cost is for secure detention stuff. It's massive. I personally think it militates in favor of not having particularly expensive figures dipping into his pocket. And ultimately,

We have one pre-trial juvenile that's been a month and a half. I can remember we spent about $350 and then one month of juvenile detention.

Regardless of where you're suffering, it's good economics to use electronic monitoring for criminals if we can say two percent. And no question, it's good economics. So don't ever put it in a way

And then I would agree, I mean, their costs changed due to a change in their provider, and $750 for a parent and for a parent, I mean, I don't know, the differentiation is that's really more of a court decision as to whether the parental participation is paid if the parent gets determined by the court and their ability. And then after that, regardless, either one of them is beneficial to the county.

So I have no objection to either. So what exactly are we looking for? What is it, Michelle, that you would like X amount before they see the judge, X amount after they see the judge?

Is it two numbers?

If the parents are determined that they are responsible for dealing with that. Well, that's the general decision.

Before you answer that question, allow me to say this. Michelle Faulkner now moves.

Am I allowed to move?

Yes, not allowed.

Not allowed.

No.

This would be much better. Move you have the policy fee $15 for probation referral paying $10 for rental pay for juvenile detention. That's my motion.

All right. Great. All right, now I jumped ahead.

So for pre-trial services funding, we did file an application for the off support services that was not funded. Their final response to us was that they were going to focus the funding on previously funded accords and programs. So that's not us. What we have done instead with the approval of the executive committee between last meeting and this meeting was file for opioid settlement funding. or free trial, and so we will be waiting to answer on that, which I believe may be in November, and then that goes to the council for January. Number five, we also worked in funding the request through the WOKI JRAC.

It's through, well, the first second will be through the subcommittee. So remember that here, I have a total of four requests.

and we have a standing grant already. So I have to set a subcommittee meeting, which I haven't done yet. I hope to do that either today or beginning next week. Request dates to the subcommittee, post those to the subcommittee.

They then present those that they've approved that actually meet all the criteria that we just kinda, I think we're gonna go through the base criteria, set state, and then send those to JRAC for approval. I believe JRAC's intention is to then determine whether to accept those recommendations. And I think the JRAC's actual requirement path to that is to make recommendations to commissioners because there are several pools funded. There are those which are restricted, which would be direct opioid funds that are restricted to those that are specific for opioids. And then we have the unrestricted funds Those are only facts which are controlled by the county. And the commissioners have previously dedicated all of those funds to this determination.

So there may be some that we look at.

We recommend, yes, these should be directly out of the restricted funds.

They fit all of those.

And then there may be some that we recommend that the commission should pay out of the unrestricted funds since they've dedicated those. I believe that that's on account.

Yeah. Continuing to work on possible partnerships where we receive referrals into the residential work program from other counties or possibly other agencies. Obviously, as a large part of this body receives our weekly update on what our numbers are. Some of you don't. We have generally been around a level of 30 people in the facility at a time, and that holds pretty steady, obviously with some fluctuation. So we have additional beds, around 20 additional beds that aren't generally in use. So if we can provide services to people and use those beds, that also adds to our project income. collections because those individuals are going to be paid fees. One of them that I've already mentioned that I've been working on is with parole for parole violators. I do not have a feeling that was going to go through because they are in a community that we do have to be pre-certified, which is an entire audit process to make sure we follow the best standards for prisoner elimination. And I'm getting some quotes right now, but the first quotes I've ever received are that it's about $7,000 to be certified in that, which then you have to weigh, you know, we're spending $7,000 for a certification without a real quick picture on how many potential beds are going to be filled using that program, then it probably is not going to weigh itself out. So that is probably not going to work out.

What's the value?

The value of the program for them is that if they, So for example, if they have somebody on parole that maybe has their pals or drug screens or something of a technical violation major.

They have, we've already had that conversation.

They have absolutely no funding to provide. So it would only be, the only opportunity they have for funding is they were willing to pay for the first two weeks of residency, especially for somebody that maybe didn't have a job yet. So the first two weeks of these, some special fund they had, which I can't remember the name of it, but it didn't sound like something they would use for it, but they said they could. But they have no ability to pay us any kind of a particular stipend, a contract fee, or anything like that. They say they don't have the funding. Next on the list, which is actually on the director update, we'll just talk about it now, Nova County Community Corrections contacted us because they have been informed that their jail base, their sheriff work-release program is going to be closing at the end of the year to be shared in January. So they were looking at if there was a way to keep an opportunity for work-release sentences for their reports that they could continue to use so that they weren't just losing that as an opportunity. What I wanted to make sure to point out to this body was that I did some calculations as far as the fixed cost and set the cost and marginal cost of running the residential work facility. It is about 87% of the budget is fixed and set fixed costs, which really, because of our staff level, because of the layout of the building, because of cost for utilities and all those things, we really can't change. What we do have is about 13% in marginal costs. So looking at filling those beds with somebody just paying the minimum of $25 a day to stay at the residential facility, it does make sense for us to have people in the beds versus having them sit empty. We are definitely going to be making, when you take a bar for $25, it's really about two thirds of it is going to be things we can use on our costs. And one third of it is something that is costing us marginally. So it makes sense to fill the beds and make these partnerships if we can. One of the things we wanted to make sure is that we're being protective of ourselves. So making sure that we have final say of who was referred. If we say someone's not coming, they're not coming. Making sure that we have really clear violation procedure that can be done quickly and that the person is transported back to Noble. And they're not spending time with us here in the jail because we know we don't have people and people they need to come pick them up. All those things have been discussed. The last issue that really needs to be worked on and figured out is just some questions that our county attorneys have had on liability and insurance coverage and how that should be written. So that's what we're working through right now to move forward.

So here's my quick question on that. Would the cost to the person be more if they take some out of town?

Their initial fee to come in is more the daily fee.

How about their daily fee?

The daily fee would remain the same. Why would you do that?

Part of what we do there is subsidized by the taxpayers of this county. Why would you have the taxpayers of this county subsidize a placement here to give somebody an opportunity to award? Why would you do that?

Well, the reason that I'm not really that actually raised the piece on them is that the work for these fees at this point are 25% or 25%. So they pay whichever is higher. So when they come into the program, we are collecting their base steps as I explained at the beginning of the last conversation because we see them every day, it's much easier to collect things like that. So they're already paying a quarter of their income after deduction.

So they would not be, Noble County people would not be placed on this would become a substitute for the sheriff's work program?

They would be placed on community corrections and then they would be transferred just like we do transfers now.

And that's really the base of the understanding. This is nothing more than just beefing up something that's already existed since the inception of community corrections.

Well, there's a big difference between work release and the sheriff's work program. Yeah, community corrections.

Correct. So their sheriff's base is closing, which they have been running as a community corrections center.

So they want to have a community corrections program, which is our community corrections program. They would like to increase transfers plus, which we already have.

Yes.

And I'm all in favor of that. That's a revenue stream. Okay. You know, my father's decision to send me to Hillsdale College when I was a young man is I just think somebody that if this program is being subsidized by the taxpayer for this county, somebody's coming from a different county, no, they shouldn't cost the same. They gain an increased fee to come into the program.

Yeah. Once it is, do I know what the math one looks like? That means swap to me. Well, this is not a vote.

I'm just giving an update.

I'm working on it.

let you know and the last update was just i was going to let everyone know about the council's decision to take over building maintenance insurance and the professional contracts which we already talked about and we greatly appreciate that that's all is there any other business all right and now we're very good we can see everybody on september 4. can i ask can i ask one question yes i don't care he's gone Change Academy updates.

Okay, six participants, two and a half, or I happen to know it's three and a half. All right. Is that awful high for this early in the year?

No.

That was slow.

Because when the kids, for September.

I've got some carryovers.

A couple. A couple. But August and September are our biggest delinquents of the month because It's all back together again in school and try to take over the world so. We have. It's additional rush and then we'll have another initial rush.

I never I never really just focused on it. At this point in time, they didn't hear, but I was looking at it. So we really. Three or four characters.