Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Okay, it is 5:37. Like to call the meeting of the zoning board of appeals to order on this Wednesday, March 4th. Would you please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Angelina, would you do roll call for us, please? Evie Dandez, present. Zachary Kart here. Stephen Miner here. Paul Wright here. Tamar Deatino here. and have a motion for uh the acceptance of February's um meeting. Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that the ZO zoning board of appeals approve the minutes of Wednesday, February 4th that have been circulated and reviewed. Second. Uh I I I I

I Okay, so we have three orders of business tonight. Angelina, I don't know if anybody's on online or Yeah. to identify who's online who's online. Um that's Three people online. Tom, RP, I don't know who that is. Anton Tony. Okay.

So, as per I'd like to make a as per PLCBA 2026 0006 225. No. Okay. As per the that 31 Christy Street, the zoning board of appeals will be tableabling this variance request until bonafide legal and recent proofs of residency are received.

Do you want to state what specifically you want to receive? Examples of what we'd like to see are documentbased evidence showing a consistent address, which would include a valid New York State driver's license, a New York State income tax return, a voter res registration card recently issued. Uh we'd like to see these within 30 days. Council, I don't know if you have anything to add to that list. I I think a a utility bill in the name of the applicant um would also and at that address would also be useful. Um I think there are

car registration

car registration would be useful. Um any uh any more official government documents showing that that is a res that is his residential address? Uh I I don't know if his wife is the co-owner on that. I mean that may be helpful too. Um the um applicant owns another property on Tibbitz Avenue which doesn't indicate uh the property card that the city has on file does not indicate that 31 Christy Street is his address. So in fact there is another address I think from the Bronx or somewhere in New York City in the New York City area which is currently on file. So, the applicant would be well advised to update uh his addresses with the city of Troy. Um, and in in addition, I guess I should I should point out that the reason for requiring proof of residency is uh at this address is that this is an application for an accessory use structure. It can only be made by a resident or by a residing owner of the premises who an owner who resides on those premises. It's an accessory use. It has to be an accessory use to the primary structure. Uh it's an unusual application because it wants to build this structure in front of the primary structure. So um but we need we need good solid legal evidence of residency at that address otherwise otherwise we have no jurisdiction to entertain the

when you say residency you want permanent res more than six months right like it's got to be it's got to be permanent residency yeah you either reside there or you don't Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move that we table PLZBA 20226-006 pending receipt of documented evidence of residence. I go ahead. I second that motion. Uh I I I I Yeah. Hi. Yes.

Paul, you asked who was online. Were you asking to see if the applicant uh the owner was online or Yeah. Ask if there any are there any questions? No, you asked whether there were people online on Zoom. Yes. Were you trying to see if the owner is on is joined the meeting through Zoom or why? I'm trying to see if Mr. president because they he he's been represented by TAP and they are here. Okay. So that's why I'm asking you if table that's fine but I I don't know if they want to speak.

Does anybody anybody present or online have any questions on this? If you do kind step up to the podium, state your name.

Oh, there's no microphone. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Uh, no. I think you made it abundantly clear that he needs to provide more proof of residence and you made some good suggestions of how he could do that. So, we'll work with him to make sure that happens before we come back.

What's your What's your name? Elizabeth Rodriguez. I work at TAP. Uh, I'm the architect for the project. Okay. And I'm representing the next project as well. So should I just stand here? Sure. She said she's representing the next one.

Okay. Okay. So PLZBA 20260007 811 River Street. The project is the construction of a single family house uh a currently vacant Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt. What what what's your relationship?

Yes. Okay. Elizabeth Rodriguez, architect with uh Troy Architecture Practice PLLC and I'm representing the clients Laura Minsky and Ira Merritt. Yes. So, um they would like to build a single family house on this property. There was a dilapidated house on the property that they did have torn down. The house itself was similar proportions to what we're proposing. It did have a one-story addition to the north, and they do want to put a garage in that spot uh in the future, but they can't afford it right now. The project that they're proposing uh is costing $5 million, no, $500,000. And um that's quite a sum of money to invest in this area. It's really an overinvestment in my opinion of the property, but this is a passion project for them. Uh Laura's sister lives in a property to the north and um she did lose her son um early, you know, before his time and inherited money from him and she's investing that money here in this property in Troy. The reason why we think you should uh grant this variance is because this is um an unusual property in the neighborhood. Uh the neighborhood is largely uh 35 foot wide lots, some 25 foot wide lots. This lot is an outlier. And I looked to see if it was two lots that were combined in the past. It was not. It was always this extra wide um 62 foot wide lot. Um and she's putting back almost what was there. Not quite. It's a little smaller. Um but it's a nice addition to the street. Um it's nice to get new construction. uh infill. It's not uh cheap to build in, you know, new construction in the city. Um and there was some question that Angelina had about um the fact that the property line

is skewed. So I was referencing the distances at the front of the building and I didn't mention that at the maximum point the building is 25 ft from the property. 25 ft 2 in. I'm hoping that you're not going to hold that against us that I didn't give you that number in the application, but in fact, the numbers across the front uh represent where it would be on the property uh and add up to the 62.4 uh lineal feet. Um it's a twotory frame house similar to what was there. Um I don't know what else I can tell you that can ask questions if you want. Do you have I don't have any questions, but do you have pictures or anything?

Uh, I didn't bring any elevations with me. I'm sorry. Did I submit any with the application? No. I'm just mine's more out of curiosity. Okay.

So, you guys are usually really good. Hey Mark, did you submit those to the to city? You know, Angie, do we have anything any photos or anything from this project? Okay. Is that what's coming around? So, yes, that's the pictures.

Oh, there we go. Voila. Okay. So, it looks like maybe I didn't do an elevation. The area is zoned two family. This is a one family house, but a two family isn't much different in size. It probably would have been just a little bit wider and a little bit longer if it were a two family house. In fact, we were originally looking at a two family. She couldn't afford that. I don't have any questions.

So, the applicant has revised the plan to reflect the setbacks right here. Okay. No, I don't I don't think that has happened yet. No, we can't vote on That's where I was going because Yeah, it's going to require more variance and we didn't notice for that. So I don't think you guys can be able to uh so in the staff report the applicant has to go back regarding setbacks at the narrowest point.

I I think what you're saying is where the building is where the property line skews away from the building that I didn't write. I'm just reading the staff report. I have no problem with your project. I think it's a great project. Uh well, but I want to get clear what's missing from the plan. So, because I didn't put 25 ft 2 in at the back corner of the building to the property line, you're saying it's missing information for you to be able to grant the variance. Correct. Okay. Correct. And because you gave us 20 is it is that 20 20 ft and that is what we know this for 20t 2 in but that's accurate at the front of the property

but we're going to take the widest because that is going to require more the variance yeah that was the variance that was noticed that we would be that the board would be considering tonight is not accurate. So we have to we'll have to bring this back if I if I may. Okay. Table it bring it back with a and notice the variances correctly. Okay. I don't agree with your logic but um Okay. So they have to amend their application. Yes. They have worked with staff to amend the application. Yeah. And I don't think that's

because they're exceeding the reason is that you guys are exceeding the minimum uh the maximum of five feet. Yes. So if you are exceeding 5 ft and you are showing 20 ft 2 in instead of 25 feet there it means that there's a difference. So I'm going to take the widest part instead of the the smallest part. I understand your logic. I just don't agree with it. Okay. We showed at the front exactly the distance we need to be away from the property line at the front of the property and on both sides. And just because the property happens to be skewed, you're focusing on this dimension at the back. Um,

it's not a back, but a side of it's still a side of it. Yeah, it's not a back. Yeah. Um, okay. That's your prerogative. We'll come back next month. We'll put the dimension there. I have We like the project. I just have one more one question if you don't mind. Yeah. Ask. Did I hear you correctly that it cost $500,000 to build a two-story single family house in Troy? Yeah. Okay. It's pretty normal actually. It's you have to work at it to get it down to that price. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Which were these?

No. back to so there's no vote needed. No, you have to table. You got to table it. Motion to table. Um I I make a motion to table PL B plzba BA26007.

I'll second. I I Yes. Yes. Yes. Does does is she clear on what she needs to she's going to work with Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Next on the agenda, PLZBA 0008, 547 River Street.

Good evening. Darren Katz with Saxton Signs on behalf of Pioneer Bank. Yeah, we got that.

Good evening, guys. Thanks for taking time out to hear us on this. Um, basically we're just asking relief on um a couple factors of the current ordinance. Basically, size, square footage of the sign, um, and some of the actual lettering height. Um, as you could see in the photos, what we're asking is for a decent size sign to represent Pioneer Bank, who's moving into that facility. They're taking about an entire floor of that building. Um, currently on the building there are a few other signs. Those signs are leasing signs and temporary banner signs. So, they're not really by ordinance signs. So, really, there are no other signs currently on that building. As far as asking for the increase of size, the increase of size is primarily just distance to the roadway, especially at that height and speeds that cars are traveling on the elevated roadway. Um, as far as the neighborhood in which we're requesting this to be in, there are several other buildings that have similar size signs at similar heights. Also to achieve the same thing, being visible from the road, being able to be seen from a safe distance when people are coming off and on 787 trying to find the location. Um, one of the reasons for the size of the sign as well is this is relatively a new logo for Pioneer Bank who did some rebranding a few years back. So, they're just trying to stay brand specific throughout all the locations throughout the city of Troy. I don't know how long you guys have been here, but I do know that Pioneer Bank has been part of this community for a very long time. I don't really want to speak on that, but I do have a representative with Pioneer Bank who I know wants to make a couple comments on what they do and who they are and what they commit to Troy. So, would you like to come up for a sec?

Good evening. My name is Philip Walsh. Um Philip Walsh with Pioneer. I'm the vice president of facilities administration and I've been with the bank for 29 years. next week. And uh we've been in Troy since uh 1889 and we continue to invest in the city and we are hoping to continue that in this building in that neighborhood. I'm here to answer any questions you might have on the banking side of things. you indicated or uh the other representative indicated that you were moving. Are you moving from uh further up uh on Huskix Street down to

We are currently leased on Second Street and we own the location on Huzzac Street. So that we won't be moving out of Huzzac Street. So you will have two locations along uh up on Husk and downtown. Correct. Is this going to be a branch where where I could walk in and Yes, it'll be it's approximately 2300 square foot retail banking branch. What's happening with the Second Street property?

I can tell you we are currently leased. Um, a lot of what hinges at this other location is based on how things go with our signage. Why have two locations pretty close to each other like uh was it maybe a mile and a half? I'm not sure the distance between the bottom of Husk Street and the top, but um I can tell you the Huzzac Street branch is is does very well. Um there's a lot of traffic that we get up there and we've always done well down in the city as well and we want to continue to serve the the people in the city of Troy.

Thank you. Are any of these signs lit? They are. How? Uh internally illumination LEDs. They'll have faces on them that will buffer the light. They'll all have different colors. The Pioneer Bank has a gray that gives a nice kind of a warm glow with a little bit of a a halo kind of effect off to the side. And the main logo, the flying P is a darker color of which will also have a very light illumination during the evening. Are they steady light or steady light? No blinking, no movement at all. of that So, so I guess I'll speak up. So, I'm not a big fan of Oh, we're on that one. Go back to the other one. Yeah, that one. Um, that that rock gym actually doesn't exist.

No, it doesn't.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I personally am not a fan of signage on, particularly lit signage on uh the exterior of that building there. We xnade the uh central rock gym and my personal opinion is similar to that. Um it's quite large and it's just something I don't care for. Um and when I go down to the uh second the third page which has the um can Angelina can you go scroll to Yeah. The next the next the next one. Go go go go go past that one to the front of the building on River Street.

That one? Yeah, that one. So, you know, the rendering of the uh pioneer over the top of there. First of all, that first floor is all rounded windows. They're not actually what that looks like. Pardon me. Flat tops. The bottom level are flat tops. No. No, they're not. Yes, they are. Look at the one right next to it. If you look at the pictures, you look to the right, you can see they're all flat top. The building's built in two sections. First of all, I'm Nathan and Betty. I'm the building owner. The building is built in two halves.

The lower half built in 1880, rounded tops. This is the northern wing, built in 1890, flatheaders. So, we're not offiscating rounded tops. Just want to make that clear. So, the picture that I'm looking at is not facing the building looking at River Street. This is from the middle of River Street looking at the primary facade of the building. I would have to echo what you said. I did a drive by and I could have sworn the tops of those windows on Do you have Google Earth you can pull up Angelina just to show illustrating this way? We're snapshotting the one bay and it's confusing. I understand.

Well, I think I think I understand what your confusion is. I see that there's two parts of the building and to the left has the curved and to the right has the square and I and I think the confusion is in your rendering you have the pre-existing walkway so it looks like so when I'm looking at the picture of River Street here there's the the rail or whatever that's the elevated sidewalk. Yeah. which doesn't which exists now on the building with the round windows and you're it goes across the whole front edge of the building. Yeah. You would be putting in there. That's what I'm talking. Oh, there it is. So, there we go. So, it's on that section over there.

Okay. Just in this this is the dividing line between the two areas of construction. So, from here over is 1890. Separate building. from here to the south. Two bays 1880 rounded tops and a mix of two designs or two architects actually that did this in different areas of construction or Miller Hall factory with the original. So that accounts for my impression of the rounded window. Yep. Yep.

Have Have you guys considered um you know across the street as you know um your bargain grocery store has I don't know what you call it where it has the pole that comes out which is a goodlook sign um instead of or something like that which which is more of a driveby visual. Bargain grocery store has a wall sign up high as well that is illuminated. We we hadn't that was a pre-existing sign from Smith beauty who was the prior tenant building that one right there. I know which one you're talking about right over the old front. That's a good looking sign.

Is there is there any just because it's first of all a you can see it driving coming and going. It really wouldn't work with their logo. It doesn't work with their logo. It's a long text logo. We're trying to reformat for specific property. I don't want to speak for you, but trying to maintain the new brand standards that they just rolled out and I think look very nice and doing it in this format over the transom of that window section seems to fit geometrically the best way with the building. We're also trying to Well, now I know that we're looking at square windows versus round windows. It changes uh certainly. Why do you I'm sorry.

I was just going to say that's also channel lettering lit. Yes. Okay. It's not fully channel lettering. It's basically a box sign that has pushed through. So the letters are extruding from the main face of the box about a quarter inch

half inch. So that also when it is illuminated it helps diffuse the illumination so it's not so bright and it gives it a little bit of that what we call a halo effect. And the the size of the one over the window transom is that is 30 square ft. The entire box length is 175 in. The height is 25 in. The lettering is 18 in and 3/4 high. So it's 25 in. The pen that the letters are sitting on. Yes. The backer. And then the P just goes on the facade by the

Yeah, the P is one of their main branding portions of their logo. It's an extremely important part in their brand identity and they're trying to keep that consistent throughout all of their new branches. That was one of the main portions of their rebranding that they did a few years back. And that's also lit. That is also lit. And it's made in the same way as the others. It is that little bit of a push through. which has got a much smaller backer on it, a little less profile to it. So really, you're asking for three signs. Is that correct? Correct. The the P being one of them.

The the P on the just the way it lays out on the front of the building kind of becomes its own. Yes. One of the three signs would be way up high on the side of the building. Correct. That's just similar to a case that we had earlier. Yes. Similar to the multiple properties that do have signs at that high like the hotel and things of that nature. No, that's not what I'm referencing. Okay. And the other two would be on the front River Street side. Correct. Why would you need two signs on the same River Street side of the building? One is their logo.

The one sign is the pioneer above the square and the other one is the little blue logo that they're counting the pioneer above the window as a sign and the little blue logo. So those are separate signs. Yeah, they're separate. The way that the logo scales, the way that that P is supposedly scaled to that pioneer to keep brand identity makes it almost impossible for it to lay out flat next to the pioneer on the wall. So to keep that branding identity and that main symbol that they're using, the flying P part of their logo, we had to offset it onto that pillar. It's also next to the door. So if you put go in there, it's big. Mark,

that's pretty much their wayfinding sign and identifying their exact location. The requested one on the top, the high up sign.

Got it. I do like the sign that you brought up across the street, the one that comes out of the grocery store on the metal yard iron with the two chains. I think it lends more to the architectural character of the building than what you're proposing. I really do. Unfortunately, just their because of the layout of their design and the word pioneer, we would have to stretch that in out into the street and we would be here for another variance for the distance it is away from the street and for the height from the sidewalk because of the elevated sidewalk. So, it was something that was considered at one point, but it's just not feasible with the layout of the sign and the way the property is laid out and the setback from the street.

I could speak to that a little bit myself, too. We've into the mic. We've actually had some complaints from customers where we've done that at other locations because they can't see the bank when they're in front of it. You had to be driving either north or south. So, when you're coming down the hill, you wouldn't see a sign that is only facing north and south. We've actually taken several of them down because of that reason. I don't have any more question. I don't have any more

questions. No questions. I don't have any questions. No, I got to do it separately. Yes, the audience. Yeah,

is there any questions out in the audience here or online? Hello, Elizabeth Rodriguez, a local architect advocate for good architecture in Troy. Uh I'm actually a customer of Pioneer, my uh the company Troy Architecture Practice. Um I think the lit sign uh up high on the side of the building is inappropriate and way too large. uh maybe if it were painted on the wall like some of the other signs or a type of sign that would be appropriate to the age of that architecture uh might make sense. And if this were a headquarters for them or something where like if the rock gym had a big sign, well that's a whole another building. The doors in the back um that might make some sense. But I don't know if it's a branch bank. I don't see why you would have such a large sign there. Just I mean I can see why they want to do it. It's great opportunity. Uh but I don't think it's what we're looking for. I don't think pointing at other inappropriate signs is uh reasoning to approve that. Uh the pioneer sign I can see they've got troubles doing it any other way down over the storefront. Maybe the P could be the thing that comes out from the building instead of being mounted on the column. My two cents. Anyone else?

Anyone online? Anybody online? I mean, I will just to counter one of the points that she had made about Central Rock Gym. They have a much larger sign on the side of their building that is illuminated currently. but not visible from the highway,

which to be honest is the fault of their own because that is a safety hazard. People are using 787 to access these areas. So the more that people are able to see and further away that people are able to see signage, the safer traffic control there is. more discussion. More no more discussion. Do we have to Oh, yes. It's seeker. Um, well, what we got here? We have to do seeker. Before I do seeker, I do have a question. Hold on.

Before that, I have one additional comment. I do want to point out that bringing Pioneer Bank to this neighborhood is a big milestone and I want to make everyone remember how distressed this community currently is or was prior to this development going in and us trying to bring some of the growth from downtown where Pioneer has been for a long long time into North Central and how needed amenities like Bank Branches are to this type of neighborhood and they need the brand awareness in this neighborhood. neighborhood to be successful. Part of that is signage. I think the sign package that's been presented is very reasonable. I disagree with a sign that should have been painted on the side of the building. I understand if it was a ghost sign or something from an old time, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about regular brand recognition, people that are going on the overpass, which is a a advantage we're trying to take advantage of with this property's placement next to the bridge. I just want everybody to understand this is a very important thing to have amenities like this come back to this neighborhood where they've been gone for quite some time and not to get lost in nitpicking necessarily small points about signage. This is bringing a bank branch to North Central which probably seven years ago no one would have even thought about. I have a question with regards to uh the environmental um proposed motion and that is um in your short environmental assessment form uh you indicate that uh where it asks at the end has a site of the proposed action or adjoining property been the subject of of remediation ongoing or completed or has this waste and you indicate yes what the river has described.

It's the river. We remember going over this last year with this board. It's the Hudson River is designated as a remediation site and we're next to it. So when we do the secret or we do the EAF through the DEC mapper tool, it comes up because the river is right next to us. That's the only contamination issue that's has it been resolved and it would be nice to have it in that form. Got to talk to DEC. That's we're not going to do anything with the river, but that's just the system. It's nothing to do with our property. Oh, okay. It just any I know it's concerning and I don't like it either, but it comes up and Oh, yeah. And if it comes up this response every time's uh number or case or whatever, it would be nice to have. So, it, you know, enlightens us.

We have a clean bill of health on the property. We did a phase one and phase two. Nothing suspect was found. So, we're in good shape. Well, next hopefully not, but uh you know for future reference would be nice to put that down. Um a question I have uh with regards to the just the overall approach of today since um there are concerns with regards to one of the signs out of the three. Would it be um appropriate to resubmit and only request two or can we um uh put forth a motion with regards to two out of the three?

Well, first of all, first of all, you you'd have to do the seeker and look at the entire project as it's been proposed, which is three signs. Okay. And secondly, um I mean the board is the master of its motions here. So if you want I mean you have to take these individually anyways, but if you want to make separate motions uh or or a motion to table, obviously any member of the board has the power to do that. I'm not recommending that you go either way, but um it's not it's within the board's purview to decide what it is going to decide today, right? But this is the application as it is right now for three signs.

We could take we're going to take them all separately. The sign the number of signs you're you're going to take each variant separately. Okay. So the first variance is the number of signs that they have. a proposed three.

Did you do seeker first though? Yes. Yes. Well, if if if it's part and parcel and if the if the um uh seeker motion is based on three signs and the uh related uh motion varies the number of signs that are approved, I'm not sure if if you know as long as you're not increasing the number of signs in the later motion. All right. I think you I think you can make a determination whether or not three signs have a negative adverse impact on the environment or not.

Okay. I'll I'll go forward then. Um uh thank you Mr. Chairperson. Um, in regard to uh PLZBA 2026-00008 uh as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal of a maximum of three signs uh to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I second. Uh I I Yes. I I All righty.

We should make a someone make a motion on the three signs. So, I'm going to make a motion that uh in regards to PLZBA 20226008, the property at 547 River Street um that we take each one of these requests kind of one by one. Uh so, I'll do the first one where they're requesting a maximum of where the city allows a maximum of two signs, they're requesting three. Uh I'm reading that carefully. I rereading it. Looks like it's three signs. There already two signs on the on the property. You want to read up?

So that the zoning permits a maximum of two signs per lot. The two signs currently exist on the property. Application the applicant is requesting relief of three additional signs. Correct. So I correct correct myself there. The benefit sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some other feasible method other than the proposed variance. So I vote that we approve the variance. May second. Nope. No. I don't second it. No. Okay. So So if it doesn't get a second, it fails.

So if there's no the motion doesn't pass. won't even be considered. Okay. So, I can move on to the next one. What? No. Why? That's it. They just turned down a a variance for three additional signs. So, do you have another motion? Anyone else? Yeah. Can I make a motion to vote on Well, I guess we can't because Yeah. Can Can I Can I make another motion? That's what I'm asking.

All three signs. They've made a they've said I I think the way they're thinking about it is the way they're thinking about it is that they've denied a motion or at least they haven't no one seconded the motion to have up to three signs in addition to the two that are already there. So I mean I think they could approve a variance for two additional signs if that's where they're going. I don't know where they're going.

They they would have to No, they have to make another motion. So, okay. I make a motion to approve two additional signs onto the building based on the fact that the benefits sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some other feasible method other than the proposed variance. Clarifying the two signs. Which two signs? Yeah. Yes. We'd have to clarify. We're gonna have to make that clear at some point. Yeah. It's the signs on River Street. the two signs that were

I guess the one that everyone on the board besides me is concerned about is the one in the building. So are you maybe we should ask the applicant if they want us to vote on two if is it all three okay so I move a motion that we vote on the two signs and approve the two signs on the building on River Street. So, the signs facing River Street. The signs facing River Street on the front over the windows and next to the windows. I'll second that. I don't know if we can. Hi. No. Yes. Yes.

All right. And then now I'm all confused about the remaining sign on the side wall up high. No, we No, we we mixed that one. We've already x made that. That's it. So, no. But wait, isn't there another variance that we need for the maximum uh the maximum permitted wall sign is 48 square feet. Oh, no. That because that's next too because it's the bigger one.

Oh, yes. They need a relief on the the signs for the 25 in. You need a 1-in relief and a 12-in relief. All right. So, I make a motion that we grant a relief of 1 in and 12 inch is respectively on the signs on the front facing signs on River Street, which is the logo, the I guess you called it a flying P. Correct. Flying P and the word pioneer. I think the the flying P needs the one inch or is it or the 12 inches respectively? Yes. Okay.

Oh, Zach, which one are you reading? The second requested ver the very last one. The last this is the first four signs are 25 in and 36 in requiring a relief of 1 in and 12 in respectively. So that's the flying P and the words above the the window. Okay. That correct? Yes. That's what I'm making a motion on. Are we good? I understand. I'll second that. I I Yes. I Yes. So, just to be clear on the record, they we approved the signs on the front facing of River Street. What was not approved was the large sign on the side

on the side of the building 787 because we couldn't get a second motion. That's it. But you are not done because Oh, what else do I need? The second variance would that was so it it will not be up to the 101 um square feet that you're requesting. But if you can state the total square footage of whatever you are approving, that would work because either way you approving two signs. Mhm. So the second you have to read out the second variance the the maximum permitted sign area last square 60 square foot total sign area is 150 previous

right now it's not going to be 101 because you are taking one out let me see what is this so what's the math first the two first floor signs do not equal 56 square feet which was what do they equal the two so minus 65 that you are you are you are disapproving the 65 yeah We're So you want me to make a second another motion? Sure. You have to make another motion for to make to accommodate the second. So what's the total square footage? Yeah. You telling me

that would mean um 90 something. No, the the sign on stairwell is 65, right? The upper the sign on the upper floor is 65. So 36. Yeah. Granting the variance of 36 91 square feet. The relief is 31 square feet. So what is it? Say it again. 91. I think 156 minus 65 is 91. Yeah. And so it's a relief of 36

and it the maximum permitted sign area is 60 square ft. So it' be relief of 31 square feet. Yeah. 31 square feet. I'm doing that in my head. I don't know who's talking. Uh, I can make the motion for it if Yeah, let's just make it right. So, you know, was this an addition to the grant? So, it's all just written for the additional a relief of what?

That's a Is that a addition? I believe it's reduction additional sign. Wasn't there already a variance granted? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. There was Yeah. So it's all the new signs in addition to Yes. Yes. Yes. So already they have 156 existing that was approved. So this what they requesting today totals 101. Oh I see that. So 101 uh yes that includes the top sign. That includes the top sign. So minus the I think the top signs the top sign is 65. Top sign you said is 65

five. So so that should give us 36 ft of uh what you are approving today. Right. So it would be 36 36. Okay. It's 101 minus 65. So it's 36 feet. So, I make a motion that we approve uh the total square footage allowed on the building for their project to 36 square feet. I make that motion. I'm going to go with the same one because the benefits sought by the applicant may not be achieved by some feasible method other than the proposed variance. And the location again

and the location of this sign is the front-facing River Street, the Pioneer of the Bank, and the Flying P logo to the right of it. A little bit lower. Second. I I I I I Anything else you want me to add to that? No, I think you've approved the two signs, the variances for the for the River Street facing signs and unfortunately not the one above. I don't know if you want to repropose for the one above. I don't know the what are the Well,

would it help if we remove the action symbol, the P from the River Street? Uh the the sign up top is our top priority. We we may not get involved in this project if we don't get that sign up high. So that was going to be my question for you. If you do not get those the sign on the side of the building, are you going to remove the project? I'm not the person that makes that decision, but I know the person that does want really wants that sign up there so that they can see that Pioneer has been in Troy forever when they come down the hill. You'd be satisfied with

N. No. Would would uh when you when you go through that evaluation process uh if the individual or individuals would consider uh different options and approaches to that and resubmit. Absolutely. But you know we are we are held to our new brand and we want to keep consistency across the market. Right. But there's lighting differences. There's you know other Right. Y and just to that, you know, we'd like to keep our consistency too with the people that we say no to

Yeah. in the same location for a similar project. So I think we're being consistent also just as a matter of fact. Yeah. I just I just wanted to get I want to understand that that one was the one that, you know, we we really feel like we need to have. Yep. You know, the one the one down River Street that's more pedestrian or, you know, local traffic. Um, we obviously we could make some concessions down there, but I'm not sure how much wiggle room there is for our our brand,

but lit versus not lit, you know, those kind of things. I mean, when I come down the hill and I grew up in Still Water, my parents were born in Troy. I was born at Smearan Hospital. You come down the hill and you see lighted signs. I mean, it's it's been that way for decades. And but we can uh we can we can accommodate the best we can. Um go back to the drawing board and see what we can come up with. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Oh, we got make a motion to I make a motion to adjourn.

No, sorry. Is there any other business? Pardon me. Is there any other business needs to come before the board? I don't think so. I don't think so. Chris is back there. He's the only one. I did that building. Anybody online? Yeah. I make a motion to adjurnn. Second the motion. Second. I I I Yes. Yes. What is it? You didn't I probably should have stated my name for the record. He didn't allow the rock