Wynwood Design and Review Committee - Regular Meeting

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Thank you. Thank you. you you

Welcome to the July 14th WDRC meeting. Roll call. Tom Dunlap, present. Kathy Leff. I'm sorry. Are you present?

Present. Sorry.

Kathy Leff, present. Present. Zion Mass.

Present.

Thank you. Alan Kett. Do we have an absent waiver for Alan Kett?

Yes, we do.

Okay. Miguel Omar? And do we have an absent waiver for Miguel?

Yes, we do.

Okay. Heidi Weigand, same question?

Yes, we do.

All righty. Jared Brunabed, same question.

Yes, we do.

All righty. It appears that we would not have a quorum. Is that correct, Council? We do have a quorum. Three is only? Three is only.

It's only three. Thank you.

All righty. Then we have an official meeting.

Perfect. Let me go ahead and... Read my spiel, let's see how fast I can do it. Any person who's a lobbyist pursuant to chapter two, article six of the city code must register with the city clerk and comply with the related city requirements for lobbyists appearing before the Wynwood Design Review Committee. A person may not lobby a city official, board member, or staff member until registering. A copy of the city code section about lobbyists is available in the city clerk's office or online at www.munico.com. Any person that may be heard by the Wynwood Design Review Committee through the chair for not more than two minutes or any proposition before the committee unless modified by the chair members of the public wishing to address the body may do so by visiting miamigov.com backslash virtual boards to submit their written comments via the online comment form the comments submitted through the comment form if any have been distributed to the committee members and city staff so the committee members can consider the comments prior to taking any action and will be concluded as part of the public record for this meeting The only comment from form will remain open during the meeting to accept comments and distribute to the committee members up until the chairperson closes public comment. Additionally, the city will accommodate any speaker designing to appear in person. When addressing the committee, the member of the public must first state his or her name, his or her address, and what item will be spoken about. A video of this meeting may be requested at the Office of Communications or viewed online at www.miamigov.com. Please silence all cell phones and any other noise-making devices. Any person with a disability requiring assistance and auxiliary aids and services for this meeting may notify the city liaison. Please note, board members may have generally been briefed by city staff on the items on the agenda. In order to ensure that the public has the ability to view the meeting, the city's communications department will broadcast the meeting. The meeting can be viewed live on Miami TV, miamigov.com backslash TV, or Comcast Channel 77 within the city of Miami. The broadcast will also have closed captions.

Thank you.

I think that might be a record. Could have done it faster, but I got stuck there. Mr. Hemingway, a public comment period?

There are no online public comments, and I would like to request that we close them, please, Chair.

And we are closed.

One other thing, Chair. Can we go back and do approval of the absentee waivers? Yes.

Do we need a motion of that? Yes, sir. Okay. Do we? I move that we approve the absentee waivers.

Second.

All in favor of approval? Aye. Aye. All righty. Well, knowing that July in 250 years is pretty darn important to some of us, how about the Pledge of Allegiance?

It's Bastille Day, too.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Splendid. Thank you. All righty. How about a motion for approval of the June 16th minutes?

I move approval.

Thank you. Second? Second. And all in favor? Aye. Aye. Minutes are approved. If there is nothing else in the preambles, shall we go right to WDRC Resolutions 19547?

Good morning, WDRC. Item number one, Manning Track ID 19547, address 265 Northwest 24th Street. Project name, Prime Stake Donor. LOCATION WYNWOOD EDGEWATER TRANSIT ZONE T50 NRD 1 APPLICATION TYPE IS ASSIGNED. ALL NON-PAINTED BUILDING IDENTIFICATION AND BUSINESS IDENTIFICATION SIGNS WITHIN NRD 1 OR T5, T6 AND D1 TRANSIT ZONES SHALL ADHERE TO THE MIAMI ZONING CODE ARTICLE 10 TABLE 15 SIGNED SANDERS AND WYNWOOD SIGNAGE GUIDELINES. THANK YOU.

And you are here on behalf? I am, yes. Good morning. Are you with the applicant or, well, are you with the ownership or the signage?

I'm with the sign company, yes.

I'm sorry?

I'm with the sign company.

Thank you.

You're welcome. My name is Jennifer Ronneberger. My company is GoPermit, and I'm here on behalf of Prime Steak Donor. We're here asking, this location was previously the Udan location, and we're here asking for an exterior sign in the same location as it was previously. This is going to hang in the same location as it was. The letters are going to be reverse channel letters, so they're going to light up white at night. And there is a photograph in your packet here that you can see that.

Do you want to turn this on so I can show?

Yeah. Oh, on would help. Sorry. Everything's plugged in. And I just turned this on, so maybe it needs a second.

Is there more to see than what we can see in the package?

Yeah, I have it here, but it's not coming through on your side.

Nothing on the screens.

Okay, I just turned this on right here. So that's on, and then I just... Sure.

Yeah. Or else just walk. Can you just walk it over this way? Hi.

Is that okay with you?

We'll try this one first. Can you see that? Is that any better?

Not on the screens, no.

You want me to try to use it? Okay, can you see that now?

Wait a minute, it looks like things are waking up.

Yeah, I think. It asked me to connect, I said yes, so.

It's asking to mirror your.

You have to press. Press. Just choose to mirror extend display.

I don't know. It says built-in display. Is that, how's that? I put mirror entire screen.

Nothing? I think Mr. Hemingway went to see about an IT person to help you out.

okay i'm sorry about that i've done this before let me try this okay oh there it goes i got it thank you just had to come out that's all thank you all right let's start again thanks a little closer to the

I guess it could be the same for me.

All right, let's start again. Good morning. Okay, I'm here on behalf of Prime Steak Donor. As we talked about, this is the location that we're here for. This used to be the previously Udon restaurant. And here is our exterior sign on the south elevation. This is what we're looking for right over the door. This is in the same location as it was before. It'll be installed on these brackets here. It will not go on the under canopy. This is what our sign looks like. All electrical components will be here and through the side here, so there'll be no outstanding electrical. This is a reverse channel letter set, so it'll light up white at night, just the letters here. And this is what it looks like at night. This is what you'll see here.

Oops.

Right here. Our sign square footage is 21. And that is what we are asking for today. Do you have any questions?

Thoughts, anyone? I'll jump in the pool and see how deep the water is. This does nothing. It doesn't speak to Wynwood to me, which I know is always a little bit of a qualitative conversation, not a specific X, Y, Z. And I can anticipate that in your mind or in the applicant's mind was, hey, this is the same as the sign that was here beforehand, which it did nothing for me either. I don't think it's in the spirit of Wynwood. I candidly kind of, as a committee member, make the comment about the spirit of Wynwood as a development professional. I feel like it probably doesn't do a lot for business either, although that's probably not a comment that is intended to come from the board. I think one of the other problems, and it goes, I think, beyond just your role here, is the building, the best I can tell, and I can't say that I've sat and studied the building, so I'm welcome to be corrected on this, but the building doesn't, just in its presence, scream Wynwood to me insofar as building graphics and overall. So to not overbeat a dead horse, I just don't see it being in alignment with where we want signage to go.

Can I respond to that for a second? You're exactly right. The building itself is not typical Wynwood, right, with all of everything that's there. It doesn't have the design and the artwork and stuff that you see all throughout Wynwood. This building is completely different than that, and our sign matches the design of the building that we're asking for. I've also done work here. I've done Chase Bank. I've done other things here, so I know what the design is. That's for their own... tenant type sign, but this, the rest of the building is the same design, so we were trying to match that. Can I just ask a question?

I mean, my reluctance to say something initially was just because I'm fairly new to this committee, and so when you said you're just replacing what was there, I was like thinking, well, maybe somebody approved it before and thought that was a right.

I do, I actually agree with what Tom says.

And I see the challenge because there's nothing, I mean, the building looks sort of generic, could be anywhere, could be any strip mall or storefront, anywhere, any place. And it would be great, despite the fact that it is sort of generic, how could you use that opportunity to create some connectivity and identity to Wynwood? I also think one of the things for me is at night it does look very nice with the backlighting, but during the day it does absolutely nothing. And unless you're open at night only, I mean, even as an advertisement during the day, people would just drive by and not even, you know, it doesn't really accomplish any way of drawing people back there if you're only open for dinner and or animating the street, the building, the, you know, people driving by during the daytime. I mean, I don't know, I don't think it's like an obvious solution to recommend, but I think if I mean, I'm sure, you know, it sounds like you were asked to look at just replacing and putting in what was there before. And I think the opportunity is to, maybe the business failed before because the sign was inadequate. You know, maybe it did nothing to really draw attention to it.

So maybe there is an opportunity just to think a little bit differently.

I mean, I don't know how much of the storefront you occupy.

I think, let me just...

You know, whether it's just that one panel above that's part of your space?

It appears that it's...

This is right above the door.

Yeah, and then three window bays over looks like starts the next space.

I mean, again, since I'm fairly new, I would have to defer to you all in terms of, is there anything that precludes you from doing a vertical, you know, something that's perpendicular to the building and is a little bit more spirited than something that is flush and fades into the building?

practically invisible during the day you can do a blade sign but just to give you guys some history of the building so that's the first building of its kind in winwood it's the it's called woodwood 25 it was the first project that had over 300 apartment units there's parts of the building that you can't see on that elevation that have mural artwork, which is what was used to write some of NRG1's code. And so it was a building that had some ideas that created what it is today. It has the Paseo next to that restaurant. There's a Paseo that was designed within the code. The restaurant that was there before, I never saw anyone inside. They spent millions of dollars renovating that corner. But directly on, so that's 24th Street. On 23rd Street, the next street over, there's KYU or Q that is always slammed with people. And then there's, I think it's another sushi restaurant on the other side. I forget the name of it. Also, you can't get reservations to. When we're speaking about the restaurant's success, I think there's a lot of things that happen. I don't think it's just a sign. But I think architecture and design have a role in it. But I think for the sake of the board, I think studying all of the projects and the good parts and bad parts of them in order to give the future tenants the best feedbacks for their success in the future is important. But I've seen on this street about, on Wynwood 25 and the buildings next door, which I worked on the development of all of them, at least every year to two years, a new revolving retail coming in. And the execution and plan is so critical. And everything, including the signage, is so important for the success of the project. Because we've seen projects come in here, and we're worried about what that sign looks like, and we're trying to give feedback. And then in the back of my head, I'm like, all right, two years from now, that sign's going to be gone. So, you know. It's valid.

That's sad, though. But if this is. That's sad, though. That is reality, but that's sad.

But then again, I would comment or challenge that if the ownership is proposing a fairly simple and easy solution to signage, then I would wonder if, you know, I mean, I think the attention to every bit of detail, like you're saying, is important, but the sign then is an indication of every bit of detail. And so, I mean, I think it's like, does this convey What type of restaurant's gonna be there? Just some ordinary replacement? I mean, is there something distinctive? Because there's nothing in the...

The whole issue here also is the architecture of the building. I mean, let's talk about it. There is no other location to put a sign here. You can't do a perpendicular... To put some sort of a design. I'm sorry? There's signs that are perpendicular. Right, but then there's code against that too, and it's also where on the building could we put this? If you look at the picture here, you know putting a vertical sign here one it goes above the first floor which is a code issue secondly if we put it to the right hand side that gets in with the architecture and the design so there really is no other place to put something so yes you're right we should we do something more extravagant should we do something more absolutely but unfortunately the architecture of the building is hindering us to have a placement and we have to look at that also

Can you just, I mean, do you have any full elevations of the building?

I tried to just pull this up here. Oh, here we go. I can just get onto Google and show you.

I see the challenge, but it's just sort of sad because, like you're saying, somebody's investing a lot of money trying to do something. They chose that building, and so did the former owners and spent a lot of money, didn't And there's so many restaurants in other parts of women, like you say, that succeed. So I think part of it is, like, how do you draw people into that? It's a challenging building. I mean, I see what you're saying. There's not too many options.

That's the thing. Like, if I go back to the client now and say, we were denied here, they want to see something else, they're going to say, well, what exactly? Where do we put something? You know, and that's the challenge here. I'm trying to get Google to open up. or I don't know if there's I mean how much of that storefront do you occupy to the corner we occupy yes we occupy to the left corner and then I believe to that the side where the light is

Yeah, it goes in, there's a Paseo here, so it goes into that Paseo and then it's, they've got this.

I mean, is there anything that could go also like on the corner by the Paseo that is, is there any vertical sign that could go in another location?

There's no vertical signage on, I'm trying to get. There's no vertical signage. There's no vertical signage anywhere on this building and anything. And now my other question here while Google is opening here, it's trying to, I don't know what it's doing. The other part is there's another sign on this elevation. It's not to be discussed. I was not able to get it on the meeting here today. I was supposed to come back in September for the same exact signage on the other side here. That's the same exact thing. The door is there. It's up there, but there's nowhere to place anything else.

Is there anything in the... I mean, I don't know enough about the code signage for... the NRD1, but is there anything that precludes them from extending the sign? I mean, doing something that's more lengthy?

Well, if we want to go, if you want to go, if we're looking to go horizontal on the building one, we go up here. And that is going to take away from the architecture of the building.

You're not really detracting from the architecture.

You don't forget, like, there's holes in the building.

There's no real detraction from the architecture because it's very straightforward, simple. Right. clean, it's not like there's a design element that it would take away from. It might add to it.

I don't think it's, for me it's not much of a debate about the architecture of the building as much as is it from a signage point of view and the rather broad charter that we have, does it say Wynwood? Is it of the materials, of the colors and styles and the graphic nature of our signage?

the goals of our signage. The only place you could put the sign is there because that's what the landlord is permitting you or because that is the only spot that you found that that could carry a sign?

That is where the property owner is allowing the sign because when he was here, it's my understanding, when he was here, that was the sign location for everywhere on the building.

My question is, You don't own this space, meaning your client doesn't own this space. They are a tenant. They've entered into a contract with the landlord. Did the landlord dictate where the sign could go

Yes.

Okay, and this is the only spot that the sign could go according to the landlord? According to the lease.

I honestly do not, I can't answer that. I don't know if we put the sign on another location or looked at another design. I don't know that.

So that's the number one question that needs to be answered because if this is the only spot where it could go, then the next step is, if that is the only spot, then somebody needs to get creative because that's what they're intimating to you, that there needs to be some form of creativity.

The other thing is,

I see that the door doesn't have anything, nor do the windows. Can the doors and the windows have something?

As far as vinyl?

No, it's something to add to the character of the area.

Like for instance, can I just, maybe this is not like within your scope of work, but since you're representing, since you're with the sign company, but representing the tenant.

Yes.

I mean, maybe it could be, would the landlord consider even the framing of those windows? Doing something that might be a little bit more creative. If the sign, one is the question of whether or not the lease restricts the sign to that spot. And then the second question is whether or not there's anything in the lease that prohibits you from reconsidering just the framing of the windows of your space. by adding some color or something that relates more to the spirit of Wynwood.

I think you're making good creative hints of how this kind of might be resolved in another way. Color is a big deal. Someday, God willing, for the tenant or for the landlord, we're going to be sitting here looking at that space to the right of this. And it's the same thing. You know, is the steakhouse sign blue? Is the next tenant the barbershop yellow? You know, is there a bigger idea that is beyond your charter at this moment that belongs to the landlord about, you know, how to use color and how to use other tools to activate? And as Kathy was saying, even the panels over top of the glass, you know, do they reflect that color? Do they have some other graphic? Or even this space. Yes. Yes.

You know, I mean, even going, I don't know what those vents are, if that's parking or some ventilation. But, I mean, one is, I think it's the tenant talking to the landlord and saying, you know, that the sign seems, I mean, there's nothing offensive. It just doesn't add to the character of Wynwood, and it doesn't really speak to Wynwood. So I think it's more, and that the building is a challenge because you're, your client is renting in a building that he chose and thought he'd be successful, but it really is a combination of the building and what the landlord might be willing to participate in or your client might be willing to do. But there is space to do something more creative than the replacement of what was there before that obviously didn't work. So I don't know. I mean, I'm just trying to give you some ideas of how maybe, I don't know if that's within the purview of your design company or it's a company, you know. conversation between the landlord and the tenant.

Yeah, it's gonna have to be a conversation higher than the sign company, I believe, but it's something we'll put out there.

All righty. Would it be appropriate to move deferral just to find out exactly what the legal constraints of the lease are, as well as taking the comments from the committee back to the landlord to see if he feels comfortable or feels legally restricted from having a conversation with the owner.

And if that's the only space that you're allowed to put a sign pursuant to that lease, then again, presumably something more creative or more towards the character of the neighborhood is what should be proposed. When you come back, have that in mind, too, when you find the answer to that.

I understand.

Right?

Yep. I understand.

That's just my two cents. Sorry. Very helpful. Yeah.

Perfect.

Okay.

So I move. that this item be deferred with the recommendations that you come back with, legal requirements, another type of sign if it's restricted, letting us know whether or not the owner and the landlord and the... Just to be clear, we can't recommend deferral, but she can ask for it to be withdrawn so that... Can I ask to come back at the next meeting, which is September?

correct, because you guys don't have a meeting in August?

Yeah, so you're withdrawing it for today, and then we'll schedule you back for September.

Okay.

That should give you plenty of time.

Yeah, absolutely.

And are you coming, just on a different note, you're coming back for the people next door in September?

Not for the people next door. There's two signs at this location. One is on the other side of the building. It's on the west elevation. Oh, okay. I couldn't get, I don't know why. Staff wouldn't allow me to put both on one on this meeting, so they asked me to come on.

But it's for the same business?

It's a separate permit number. They went in together. This one got here, and the other one was in September.

So then now both of them are going to come back at the same time. Correct. And presumably you're going to have the same issue.

Well, maybe not if I redesign it.

No, no, I understand that, but I'm saying is like the sign on the other side that's not before us looks exactly like this one.

Correct.

Okay. Yeah.

All right. Yeah, so I'm going to have to change it, obviously, and then try it.

Right, so you'll do both.

Yes.

Okay, perfect.

Yep.

So you're going to go ahead and withdraw, and therefore there's nothing for the panel to actually vote on.

And I can leave my one for September where it is.

Correct.

Okay.

One hint just as we go away. that would help us. Zion made some great comments about familiarity of the building and how the little passeo gives character to the building. I would not be frugal in the providing of context photos in your application. Kind of drop back, look at the building, what's on the left of me, what's on the right of me. Pictures are worth loads of words as the saying goes. So just help us help you to understand the context and the color of the building as well. This may be more faded photo, kind of a better quality photo might help.

Okay. Can I ask, can I bring options back with me? Like two options to say, this is one, this is two, because I don't want to have to come back again in October. I mean, obviously, I'm not going to come in with 60 options.

That's on you as the applicant. Obviously, they can make considerations based on what it is, right? Yep. So you're not prohibited, but there's nothing stopping you from giving options.

Okay.

Because you could have combinations of whatever those options is. Maybe they, you know.

Well, just because we're doing something with the building too now, I would just like to just have some options here because I don't want to come in and be denied and then we'll be doing this every month until next year.

I think the more information you bring is always better.

Yep.

Understood. Okay. I'll do that. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much.

All righty. If nothing else, then move to adjourn.

Move to adjourn.

Second. Second.

Thank you.

Thank you.

See you in September.

Thank you. Thank you. you