Planning & Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

The existing residence is approximately 6,500 square ft and is equipped with all utilities and a septic system. The site includes concrete parking for approximately eight vehicles, including ADA compliant spaces, as well as an additional gravel parking area for accommodating up to 42 vehicles. No outdoor lighting or signage currently exists or is proposed. To date, planning staff has received one neighbor in opposition citing increased traffic along the easement during the recital and then one letter in support along with 20 petition signatures citing a beneficial impact on the community planning conditions.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions of staff from board members? Okay. Is the applicant or applicants representative here? Okay. If you would please state your name and address for record and tell us anything you feel like we need to know about the project. Didn't need you to hit the button. Turn the little red light on too. I'm sorry. There you go. Thank you. Um Holly Smarto, 2312 North Fox Trail in Fagville, 72703. Did you want me to talk a little bit first or whatever you feel like you would you would like to share with us? Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Okay. Well, I did write something, so I'll just read it for you. Perfect.

My family has lived in Fox Trail for nearly 27 years. We love this neighborhood and are truly grateful to be part of this community. I apologize for any disruption I may have caused and hope my neighbors will reach out to me directly in the future. As shown as in my application, I would like to highlight some of the following points. First, this request enjoys broad support from my neighbors. Many are sitting back there, my students who are also back there, and members of the wider community. Second, our property provides more than adequate parking for both lessons and occasional events. My students do not park on the main road Fox Trail. My husband has worked very hard to make sure that parking is sufficient on our own personal property so that our guests and students never need to park along the main road. Third, my teaching schedule closely follows the public school calendar with only minimal instruction during the summer months. Very little because I like to vacation and I'm getting old. Fourth, this is not a business that will grow. This is not a business to me. This is my mission. I teach alone and have no intention of increasing the number of students that I accept. I was told that my neighbors heard my students playing. It has been a rare occasion that my students play their instruments outside. I do not use amplification and only a small number of students play at once and for very short periods of time during the day. I assume that that sound can carry with the wind, but the actual volume is quite low. There are very small kids playing Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, [clears throat] especially less than

parties hosted by my neighbors. And we are still waiting for an invitation. [clears throat]

Besides the specifics of my own operation, I'd like to address the larger context of music education in our community. Um, I'm sure some of you have children in music programs, um, public school music programs in Fyville do not begin until seventh grade. And many private schools do not offer instrumental music programs. Parents who want their children to start violin at an earlier age have very few options for private instruction. Currently, there's one violin teacher at the university's Suzuki Music School and a private teacher who operates a home studio while also teaching piano and myself. So, offering quality violin lessons in our community is a privilege I take very seriously. Teaching from my home studio allows me to make keep my rates affordable for young families. If I was forced to rent um strip mall or a businessowned area, this would significantly increase the amount that I would have to charge to make it worth my time. [snorts] Public public school music programs rely heavily on private teachers like me to supplement their curriculum and help students advance. Once a child joins their school orchestra, consistent private instruction becomes essential for real progress. I provide dedicated coaching through every stage of a student's development, including preparations for all state auditions. Every single one of my students has successfully earned that recognition. This year, two of my Washington County students who are graduating from high school, one has earned a full scholarship to Northwestern University and the other has been accepted to Princeton. Their exceptional musicianship was a significant factor in their college admissions. So, denying this application, in my opinion, would deny future students who

love music as I do to also reach those sorts of ambitions. So working with families who recognize the profound impact has on a ch children's life is more than a business. It's a mission. So thank you. I thank you for your consideration. I appreciate it, ma'am. Thank you. Any questions of the applicant from board members? Okay. Thank you. Lauren, I've got Mr. Mart, I do have a question and and first of all, I've got no issue uh with what you're doing. I do have a question. It's a logistical issue. Um, you share an easement with the Stanley's. Your neighbors next door.

We We share an easement with Yes. Our neighbors. One of them is back there.

Okay. So, in the event that say they move, does, and this may be also a a SAM question. Does the CUP because you do use that easement for this purpose and and while your neighbors are okay with it, if they move, does this arrangement [clears throat] or does this approval from a CUP does that transfer that the other that the new owners must comply with? uh from from like planning stand standpoint any as access easement or shared easement is an agreement between property owners and most of the time it's like written and recorded and if I buy that land from you it's most likely it's going to transfer as asis. So if unless if the new buyer says like hey I don't want to share with you at that point he's going to make her access easement like obsolete and he cannot do this because she will be landlocked so it's going to be against like state regulations and that's why they have the access easement already.

Okay. Yeah. So you what I asked was that in the event that if it's just a verbal agreement, handshake agreement and they leave, do the new owners have to allow you to use that for your your reason for that purpose. And what was his answer? Get it in writing. I think that's the way. Get it in writing. Well, if it's if it's already existing like regardless if in any way. I mean that's Do you and your neighbor have a shared access agreement access to for the do do so there's um no probably not I mean that probably needs to be done

it would be it would be beneficial to for in your interest to get that in writing so that it's an agreed upon thing that would convey what the property if your neighbor sold. But just keep this in mind like they're not creating a new lot that needs that's like asis. So it's already existing. It's a good thing to have it. Yeah. But if it does not exist and that's how it's been for a while, so that should be like it shouldn't be an issue. I don't know that I've ever seen a conditional use permit take. Usually it's lot splits. It's land developer talking about shared access that sort. Okay. Yep. Okay. All right. Any other questions of the applicant? Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Is there anybody in the public that would like to make public comment on this? Please come up, state your name and address for the record and let us know what's on your mind.

Thank you. Thank you, members of the board. My name is Larry Ash. My current address is 1968 East Cobblestone in Fagatville. I had to think about that because for the last 20 years, it was 2322 North Foxtrail. Very close. In fact, a house was on the map that was put up uh there. So for 20 years we've we lived in proximity uh to this uh operation and never once even knew it was there much less in experienced any kind of disruption or inconvenience or anything that that was troublesome as a neighbor. I wonder if if it's appropriate, Mr. Sheffford, if I could ask the folks who are either from Fox Trail or students could stand up. Yeah. Let's let anybody everybody that's in favor of this instead of everybody speaking just stand up and show us who's here in favor of it.

Great. Thank you very much. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thank you. Hi. Hi. I'm Sue Williams. I'm a member of the POA board of Fox Run. I have a petition of support for Holly. Okay. I don't know who needs it. Mr. Sam right there would be the guy person to give that to. Thank you ma'am. It's fine. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Is there anybody else from the public that would like to make comment on this? Okay.

It's already ready for you to go. Okay. Just state your name and address. Tell us what's on your mind, sir.

Yes. Uh, so good evening. My name is Thomas Yandic. I live in Fatville, 386 3863 East Chadzsworth Road. Uh I teach finance at UOVA and uh my 10-year-old daughter Terry is a student at Holly's mother stu Hol Mother Studio and I'm here in support of the conditional use permit. So naturally, I'm not a neighbor uh and I cannot speak to the issues of neighborhood or address the technical land use problems. That's up to you. What I can do is I can speak about what Holy Smother Studio actually is and what it means for families like ours. This is clearly not a highintensity commercial enterprise. It's a serious uh musical uh institution studio for children which is built around the Suzuki teaching method. I'm not a musical expert, but I understand that Suzuki teaching method requires both in-person and group lessons and the group lessons are not casual social gatherings. They are necessary because students have to learn how to uh work in groups, how to listen to each other, how to support each other musically and how to get better. Um and uh for our daughter Terry, the experience has been extremely sort of life forming uh great and life forming. Holy smo studio does not simply provide entertainment and casual hobby. Uh Holy Mato teaches discipline, attention, confidence and actually musical excellence. Her studio contributes to the uh culture scene of Fatville and Northwest Arkansas. In fact, most recently they actually played uh right before a concert at North Arkansas

Symphony Orchestra. And so it helps children to grow in ways that schools, families, and communities should actually value. From my experience uh uh as a parents, families come to the studio parked way far from the actual from the actual street. They go, they let these students play and uh uh then they leave. Uh this is completely different from a high use commercial enterprise. Uh it's predictable, it's limited and it's centered on student education. So to conclude, I definitely would respectfully ask the board not to view this children's studio as a intrusion, commercial intrusion into residential area. This is a longstanding uh musical institution for our community, for our city and county and it supports development of children and ultimately turns them into really good young musicians. So I would respectfully would like to ask you for to grant the conditional use permit uh in order for this thing to continue. Thank you very much.

Thank you sir. Appreciate it. Is there anybody else in the public would like to make public comment on this item. Okay. Seeing none, I'll bring it back to the board for I'm sorry. I apologize. That's okay. I was a little That's fine. My name is Andrea Stanley and we own the house that's at the top left of your screen and share the driveway. In 17 years that we've lived there, we've maybe had an instance in one time where we've met a car coming in on the driveway. So, I just wanted to state that sharing a driveway is not an issue and we will make sure that Holly is supported. If we ever sell that, she will have that documentation.

Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Anybody else like to make comment on this item? Okay. Now I'll close it and bring it back to the board for action. Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the HS study studios CUP subject staff conditions. Got a motion. Is there a second? Second. Got a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you. All right, let's move on. The next item. [applause] Mike a second.

Micah Thompson on a second. All right, next item. Genesis Ranch conditional use permit. We'll start with staff report, please. Vicinity map, site map, neighbor map. The applicant is requesting a cup to develop and operate Genesis Ranch, a nonprofit faith-based residential treatment program for adolescent girls. The subject property is 86.56 acres. Planned improvements include a residential treatment facility accommodating up to 16 residents as well as an equin barn and program facility. Administrative operations are proposed Monday through Friday from 8:00 to 5:00 with residential care provided on-site 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The program is expected to employ approximately 15 to 20 staff members. The proposed 8,000 square foot residential treatment facility is designed to accommodate up to 16 female clients and have all necessary utilities including a septic system. The building will will include client bedrooms, shared living areas, classrooms, office space, and a two-bedroom on-site staff apartment. A total of 13 standard asphalt parking spaces and two ADA compliant spaces will be provided near the residence. The proposed 5,000 square square foot equin barn and program facility will include up to eight horse stalls, a fitness and activity room, office space, and a restroom served by a septic system. The site will be accessed through a 16 ft gated entrance with signage located near the entry. Parking areas will be illuminated with polemounted lighting and building corners will be equipped with flood lighting to enhance safety and security to allow proper supervision of clients and a 5-ft tall ranchstyle fence is proposed around all pastures and along the roadway. Additionally, 22

foot wide compacted gravel interior drives will be provided will provide connectivity between the project structures. Genesis Ranch will be a licensed residential treatment facility for adolescent girls under Teen Challenge Adventure Ranch of Northwest Arkansas. The program will be fully licensed through DHS and will pursue accreditation through CARF to ensure compliance with national recognized standards of care. The program will provide a structured therapeutic environment with an average stay of six months. Services will include clinical therapy, academic support, life skills development, and faith-based mentorship. If approved, this project will be required to go through the large-scale development process. Planning staff has received one complaint regarding this project, citing close proximity to a nearby gun range planning conditions.

Thank you, ma'am. Any questions of staff from board members? Micah got one. Would this be considered a health care or a medical facility? [clears throat] As long as they get like all their certification from the state. Uh it could it could not. It depends on what the state like designated to be. They already have one in moral area for like the uh uh the men and this is like the female basically like version of it. So we've never had any issue with any of the previously like approved project. Any other questions of staff? All right. Is the applicant applicants representatives here?

All right. Would you please state your name and address for the record and tell us about your project?

Yeah. Justin Smith, uh 310 West Bush Street in Prairie Grove, Arkansas. Um I'm I'm the current CEO of Teen Challenge Adventure Ranch. Uh I've served there for over 30 years. Um we've been in existence for 50 years. Um and We have served well over 2,000 um uh young men during that time and their families from the state of Arkansas and beyond. Uh I don't think it's any secret uh that our world is struggling uh that our youth are struggling. Uh I didn't come prepared with a list of success stories, but I promise you I could provide those. Uh you know um I could tell you about Lucas who's coming back this summer. he's in his third year of college as a a champion wrestler and he's gonna he's come back every summer to serve as an intern and you know he went through the program. Uh so we have many many stories like that. It's our passion. It's our heart to to make a difference. Um of course we also provide um employment to a good number of staff. We currently employ over 60 staff for our facility. So we're not just a running um as a uh house parent or foster care program. This is a yes this is a healthcare um uh program a strong faith-based healthcare program. Uh so we have um definitely identified there is a massive hole uh because we are not reaching adolescent young girls um who are struggling with um addiction and mental health issues in our in our world in our states in our communities. Uh so we definitely have a a huge passion and vision to make a difference. uh and we really believe that uh the location has been miraculously offered to us the way we were able to procure it and uh the setting is is perfect for a therapeutic treatment program. Um our intention is is not to put any kind of high-rise or medical looking facilities. This you if you've seen the proposal uh it will be a very very nice residential setting that will complement the valley. Uh so that

is that is our uh I'll stop there. I could go on for probably for hours about of what we do and and what we've done over the years, but I'll be glad to field any questions. Have you seen the conditions of approvals uh presented by staff? Are you good with it as proposed? Yes.

Okay. And then the one [clears throat] question about the close proximity to the gun range. Do you have any concern there? Uh I I don't have any more concern than than you know anywhere a gun range would be located. But obviously again our our facility will be incredibly well monitored. We have we'll have surveillance. Um all all the uh accesses are alarmed in the from in the evening. So you know anybody leaves um you know we have a very close relationship with the Washington County Sheriff. Uh in fact I just met with them this week and we're planning cookouts for each other. you know, so we we have a good relationship there and uh so of course there are moments and times where that's necessary, but um I don't uh uh believe especially adolescent girls seeking out a in any involvement in a um gun range is is an issue from our standpoint. Of course, we won't we would want to know that is a safe operation, you know, but I have no reason to believe otherwise.

All right. Thank you. I had a question. I I want to add like something like during the uh large scale phase of this project uh the applicant should like submit all like the plans for like the security safety and also like the certification. Yeah. So we're going to get there. Okay. All right. Go ahead. I have one question. Uh are there plans to fence the area where the girls are just so the neighbors won't be

Sure. the entire property of course will be we fences in for the equin program but yes we do have um plans uh a second layer of those plans would be to put a perimeter fence around the acre surrounding the house um if if you're familiar with our boys facility we we have uh it will be similar to that so that that's an extra layer of um determent and then security and safety for from from the outside in and from inside out. Yes, my farm's next to the Teen Challenge. It's a good operation. I just want to make sure they be safe and the neighbors be safe. Okay.

And I'll remind the board kind of our quirk since we don't have zoning in the county. We have to look at the condition of the use permit before you actually look at the large scale development which shows you what will actually be built there. It's kind of backwards the way we have to do it. It'd be nice to be able to look at what's going on the property at the same time you're you're looking at the conditional use. That's just not the way our ordinances are written. So that that step will come. Sure. Yeah. And that's very nice like for a conditional use like the plans they submitted at least like very detailed. Yeah. All right. Any other questions of the applicant at this time, Micah? Just because I'm very unfamiliar with with your first operation, sir. Uh we we've approved the boys in also in Washington County.

Yes. Uh it's in Mars area like West. um they they started this I guess I I believe it's like 2012 or 2014 and they they were approved for like the entire like area and then they came multiple times for like u um large scale large scale large scale and now they're in the process of just like finalizing the whole thing but this C matches that one uh it's it's close to it very close to it okay I'm sorry what can I help does this C is it basically the same one it's the same but like for females and the Lego man.

Yeah, it's been but a much much different um uh uh design and facilities wise. You know, the infrastructure that's at our at our our boy centers has been built out, you know, where we have the admin offices. We have an equestrian center and there'll be some shared services that the girls will come and use on that property. We don't intend to uh we have no what you're calling large scale what I'm going to call large scale development. We don't have an extra set of large scale plans for for the the adolescent girls center. It will be much on a much smaller scale than our current facility. Yeah. Large scale is like one acre or more. I know. I know. I understand. In your model, are the residents free to come and go?

Uh free to come and go. They're minors. So, of course, you know, they they are under our supervision and care while they're with us when their parents, you know, drop them off. Uh so, uh but there but it is not a lock down facility. You know, it is we do not have a lure. We're not to that level of acuity. you know, we're not a uh a mental health secure uh uh is that if that's what they're there because they so could be could they physically walk away? Yes. Okay. Uh but not without us being they would have to be under the supervision. They would be we would we would attempt to always be with them and then if we could not accomplish that, the the Washington Sheriff's Office would be notified.

All right. Any other questions of the applicant? Okay. Appreciate it, sir. Thank you, sir. Is there anybody in the public that would like to make public comment on this item?

Good evening. If you would please state your name and address for the record. John Bailey, 15017 Greasy Valley Road. I am in fact the gun range.

Okay. the chief uh our chief concern as one of their key employees, Laura Jones, has been our neighbor for several years and uh it's just been very very difficult and would very much like for us to be shut down. One of the chief complaints is uh shooting in the mornings. I'm guessing you all walked through and saw how the gentlemen were dressed as you came in. Although the the uh if you look at the date of that complaint, the heat index was almost 120 and the officers that I was training asked if we could start early. That was on me. I granted it and then once the complaints came in, we haven't done that since. But the bigger concern is now if they're going to move in then with a key employee being a chief antagonist, um that's a threat, you know, to our to our business, if you will. And while I'm passionate about their mission, I wear a badge and a gun and protect kids and a church every every month, including Celebrate Recovery. You know, my last shift, I had an ambulance there before I was on 10 minutes, you know, with a young lady that had a problem, an issue. So, I I support their mission, but I think maybe myself and Mr. Justin might need to sit down and uh kind of figure out what we could do to make it passible for both of us.

Sounds great. Appreciate it, sir. Thank you for your service. All right. Is there anybody else that would like to make comment on this? If you would please come state your name and address for the record. So, my name is uh Jacob Fry. I live at 14955 Greasy Valley, just due west of this proposed camp. And my only concern for Mr. Smith and his team is the basically I have two young children and in reality you are dealing with juvenile delinquents at this camp. What is stopping them from coming onto my property or trespassing or causing issues. I have two young children.

So that was kind of our conversation earlier. This is the conditional use permit. We do things backwards in my opinion. I'll state that. So in the large-scale development, that's where we'll get into screening, security, monitoring, all of that sort of thing. So once if this is approved, then he has the legal right to do the large scale development on this property. Then he'll bring those plans forwards and that's when we would address your concerns on that. Good. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

All right. Is there anybody else that would like to make public comment on this? Evening. Jody Bailey, 15017 Greasy Valley. I am really concerned about the lighting that they're talking about. Um, you know, I understand parking lot lighting and security lighting necessary, but my home is has a bird's eye view to that piece of property and that would be very intrusive 24 hours a day to my well-being and living in my house. So, I'm very concerned about that. So, I'd like to know more.

Ma'am, have you seen the staff report? Have you seen the project staff report? I've I've read the paperwork that you've provided. Yes, sir.

Uh, the entire thing like Yeah. So, The last page shows like the approved and nonapproved like type of like lighting they can use and it's not supposed to be shining out. It's supposed to be shining down. Most safety and security like places like this they will have timers on them or they will have sensors on them. So they don't they don't keep them on all day. It will be like on when whenever like they need it to. So there's lots of regulations when it comes to lighting and they have to follow all of this. I'm I'm still very concerned about how intrusive that's going to be with with where I live and and the view of my property because I'll be able to see that all the time. So, I'm I'm very concerned about

Yeah, we'll work with Mr. Smith on all of this. Again, we I would encourage you to come back if this is approved when the large scale development is submitted. That's when we will get into the details of the actual development, lighting, screening, that sort of thing. Okay. Thank you. All right. Is there anybody else that would like to make public comment on this item?

Hello, sir.

Bow speed. I'm at 14610 Greasy Valley. We were just to the north of that property adjacent to and um a lot of concerns about the lighting about what's going to happen. There's a lot of trees in between how much clearing they're going to do. I see the development up there. My main concern is we bought the place to move out into the country and you know, you can't control your neighbors, but maybe you can control if they're going to put a facility in next to you. Um, which I understand. So, but like I said, the main concern is the lighting, all the stuff that's going to happen, how much they're going to clear. There's a lot of trees in between us and them. There's uh they've had a survey done, some property stuff. They come on me to do the survey, which is fine. No big deal. Nobody asked, nobody called, nobody said anything. They use my driveway to come up and do the survey, which like I said is okay. It would have been nice to been asked. Um uh there's a [clears throat] like I said, we moved to the country to be in the country and uh to me that's going to ruin the whole project there. That's you're not going to be in the country anymore. Uh concerns about keeping the kids contained. We've got grandkids that are just one and four and six months. So, and they're all boys. So, that's our concern, too. We got boys that are neighbors that will be neighbors. Uh make sure that they keep the kids on their side. And I understand, you know, everybody needs help and everybody needs a place to go. I understand that. But hopefully the control of the kids and where they go. Concerns about coming off the property. He talked about a 5-ft fence around the perimeter. You know, a five foot fence is not going to hold anybody in if they want to get out. I'm

not worried about the trespassing as much as just when you got girls and we got boys, you know, what's going to happen. That that's the only thing that concerns me. Um, and like I said, they're young now, but they'll they'll grow up against. So, all right. Just make my two cents. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. All right. Is there anybody else that would like to make public comment on this item?

Okay. Seeing none, I'll close it and bring it back to the board. I I hear what the neighbors are saying. Mr. Smith, if you would like to take an opportunity to address it today or address that with them specifically, some of their interest. It sounds like I guess there hasn't been a lot of conversation between you both. And I part of me I I do understand living in the country you move out there for a reason and then you know things change. I get it. Um you know Washington County we're kind of stuck with residential and agriculture and anything else I mean kind of is it's the reason that we're in here for C. So my my question is if you'd like to address some of these concerns tonight great. If not, would would you like to take a little more time to address it specifically with them on their time?

Sure. That they can feel better and and possibly we could table this until another day, assuming that everybody would be okay with it.

Well, I definitely would encourage, you know, uh definitely my office is available. I'd be happy to share my number and set up meetings with anybody individually if they would like to have those discussions, you know, in more detail. We surely understand the um the value but also the the potential I guess devalue that people are trying to to observe here. We we have located the facilities on this property. Uh they'll be well secluded as far as lighting and appearances again and and and the aesthetics of it. I I um I don't believe there's any uh u anything that'll be considered an eyesore, you know. Uh so I I don't know what else to say about that. Like I said, that will be presented in the development plan. Uh the security of the fence, you know, like I said, there will be a what I call an anti-limb uh security fence around the house. Um it will be more than a five- foot uh you know, there'll be five foot beautiful stained fence around the entire property for for the horses. Um and so we will have a much more secure fence around the home. Um, but I I realize, you know, like I said, it's not, you know, it's not impossible at all. Uh, to speak to this, you know, it's just when it comes to the property and appearances, I don't know if this is appropriate, and I don't want to get too into detail, but this property had been used as a drug uh running property and a and a junkyard for the past uh 20 years is my understanding or more. Um, it it it was in very disrepair and very a rough living um residence. Uh, so we have already uh hauled away multiple um dumpsters of trash and you know paraphernelia and things off the property to clean it up. You know, so so I don't uh to think that we're not bringing new value to that property is hard for me to to understand considering what it was used for before. You know, we we have much better intentions. So,

and again, we're looking at large conditional use permit tonight. We'll look at large scale. Uh, it would probably be beneficial for you to try to meet with the neighbors, show them what you're doing, the plans, where you're clearing, that sort of thing. I think that would alleviate a lot of concerns before we come back. Yeah. And I definitely apologize for the survey crew using your land. That I, you know, I would have never guessed that that would have happened. So, forgive me for that. You know, we we that was not intentional to offend anybody. Okay. Other questions of the applicant? Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. I've got a Sam question. Yes, sir.

Are our shielded lighting are are examples of shielded lighting that we have, would those necessarily follow or fall under like dark sky lighting? Well, I'm not sure like if they do follow it, but like we have this like written in our ordinances long time ago that it's supposed to be shielded pointing down and that's what I said like earlier like most of those like development they use like sensors or timers on them so they don't be on all day or all night. So they and they most of them

Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah, most of them mo most of the new development they're using LEDs and that's something you can always like turn down if it's like if it's like really bright. But I've never seen any complaints from any development we had in the past like at least like 10 years if they have the shielded down. And we asked I asked like personally one of the projects that was on Weddington which is in the county but they access like the city of Federal to replace all of those lights and once we did we had no complaints. So there's lots to it. I'll say that you because I live outside the city. I see I can see into Fagatville and Springdale. There's a big difference between Fatville. Oh yeah, definitely. I there's dark [clears throat] sky over Fagville.

Yeah. I mean definitely that's what they like most of the time like the most of the development like they go and like pick a company that have reputation and they've done this before in the city. So the same as like electric and all of this. So like they follow the the latest and like the the most upto-date lights. don't buy the cheapest, but they buy like everything that's been approved or used before in the city. So, I'm assuming Mr. Smith like he he can hear it now, so he would he would know what to look for in budget format. And again, I don't want to sound redundant, but that's that's what large scale developments for is to make sure the project's in compliance with all county ordinances and that's where we can add additional conditions of approval if necessary to try to

I mean you can add them today as well like in the you can add everything today in the cup and that will carry on to the large scale definitely. So Sam, so there's a gun range close to this development, right? It's across across the road. It's like in a one acre within like a bigger lot. It's way to the northwest. So and it's already an existing business.

It is an existing business went through our like CUN was approved 20 2021. So, I would like this I don't disappoint the proper time, but to table this because I believe that this new development plus the business owner already should talk because if they're already having issues and we approve this, those issues are just going to escalate. You can always vote on this one. Okay. Yeah. You need to make a motion to table and let go like Yeah. I'd like to make a motion to table it.

I'll second motion. We have a motion to t second to table this item. Is there any other comments from board members? Take roll call. Okay. Take roll call, please. Absolutely. Laura Shackleford. No. JP. No. Mara Pearson. She's out. Robert Dry, no. Shantel Pereier. Yes. Anthony Mcnut is out. M Thompson.

Okay. So, the motion to table failed. So, let me ask board members your concerns of what's not been addressed for a conditional use permit. I'll say it for the the record. I mean, there there were concerns that were that that the neighbors had that brought up that I believe were valid that that are issues that large scale would not overcome unless unless we were to say dark sky, you can you can add conditions to dark sky because that's above and beyond the ordinance of Washington County lighting ordinance has. You can always add them,

but it's a conditional use. So, it is You can always add conditions. Yeah. Okay. So, you could add conditions that are more restrictive than what county order. Oh, definitely. Okay. And it's going to go eventually to the quorum court for approval and they can always add. So, if you want to add a condition that lighting be met meet the dark sky standard as observed by city of Fable, you can add that as condition to the C. I was not aware of that. Typically we deal with that at large scale but it's it's something that you feel passionate that needs to be dealt with. I mean that's the issue we get in the conditional. Typically

in an incorporated area you have use by right. So you skip the conditional use and you actually have the project that's going to be completed that you're reviewing. The way that we are since we don't have zoning. We have to do the conditional use before the applicant knows that they can build their project before they spend all the money and time and energy to bring the project to you for approve. Correct. That's the issue we've had at county forever. And what's worse is that if this was a hog farm, they could light it however they wanted subject to and they not have dark or like a house. Yeah. Or house. Yeah. If it's a res I went the extreme.

If it was a resident, they could put up any lights they want. If it was chicken houses, hog farm, goat farm on this property. They could run as many as they wanted with whatever lights they want and we'd have no regulatory concern whatsoever. Same thing with the next one we're getting ready to look at. It could be a pig farm on that corner. We couldn't do a thing about it. So that's being added. So we'll update the I mean make the motion. Yep.

That's thing one. But I mean there were there were to me there were valid concerns from the neighbors about that that that won't be I mean that you could address with fencing, but these are things that once adage that the horse is out of the barn. Once you once you agree to the CU, then the issues that the neighbors have brought up tonight will probably I mean I I believe that Mr. Smith can address I wish more folks would talk to their neighbors prior to coming in here. It's just not the norm. But the the issues I don't think will get addressed. Um that's why I really would favor the motion to table. Let me say this, okay? I, you know, my farm is next to team challenge. Uh, I found that any concerns I had were addressed. Uh, the fencing that they use there is very helpful to retain anybody that they're trying to rehabilitate. So yes, and I've got friends that are neighbors here, but yes, there are concerns, but I will say this, whenever I've expressed in here, as far as my knowledge, their concerns are being tried to be addressed after the fact, uh, as best they can, you know, but, uh, their operation is very beneficial to the youth. I've seen it. I've heard the witnesses and and so I'm torn. I I I fully understand my friends and the citizens in the county, but this is a great purpose. So that that's what we'll have to decide. But

so let me ask you this. As a neighbor to the the Have you ever had any complaints or any issues with the operations infringing on your rights as a neighbor to the existing facility? when it first started. The only concern I've had is that early on before they had the fencing and they they've learned by trial and error, they had a boy or two escape, but they the county helped them and they found them and and uh you know, we all worked together. With the additional fencing, I hadn't had a problem since. So, they I mean, the concerns are there. I understand the lighting, all of it. But when I called them, it was taken care of. And they've learned, just like we all do from anything we start, they've learned to improve and and try to solve the problems because their ultimate purpose is to convert these young teenage people that don't have the guidance that you and I and a lot of other people have the benefit of having. So yes, there there's I think they have about a 80 90%, you know, conversion rate. There's always going to be exceptions, but uh that's what we have. I mean, tonight we're considering whether it's compatible, but uh we can address their concerns, I think, in the future.

I mean, it does have an equestrian base. If it was just a horse farm, lighting, fencing, none of that would matter. you are walking a fine line. It's not a maximum security, minimum security facility. It is a volunteer facility. I don't think any of us would argue that it's not a worthy cause needed in our community. I think it serves a need in our community very much so. So, I guess I'm in support of the conditional use permit thinking we can address the neighbors concerns at largecale development with additional conditions at that time would be my position. Again, it's unfortunate as our ordinances are written written in the county without zoning that we have to address the conditional use permit approve the the use on the property before we actually get to approve the specific use of

I mean you can always add specific so they can build on it I mean you have the right to do so and but like you have to vote on it and like make a motion if you want to add this as a condition the lighting you can always make it and add it to the conditions And it will carry carry over to the You can also add it at large scale development. Yep.

When you see their lighting package, you see their proposed design, where they're going to be, what they're going to be, and if it's not satisfactory to you, then you could add that same condition at the large scale development. One of the things I think we always have to consider is that you know there could be a lot worse things that show up that have by right to that can be there. So there it's it's a delicate balance and I I understand their concerns. I we'll try to address it the best we can. Do you have something you want to add, sir?

If you would come up to the mic so we can all hear you.

Again, John Bailey 15017 Grease Road. The You guys are in a difficult spot. I get that. The elephant in the room that we're not addressing and because of my work with the church and the rehabilitation staff, I see it. My concern is we've got a black and white squad car parked in our property every day, all day, all the time. Um, we've got continual officers coming on our facility and then we've got at risk youth. Does would our officers appearance of law enforcement that you know the shooting if we're shooting does that trigger and does that does that hurt his opportunity to to help some of these young kids? See, I almost see it the other way. Having police presence that close is a determinant and ought to make the neighbors more comfortable.

I I I I truly like the fact that Washington County Sheriff's Department has a presence in very close proximity to this location. I think that helps with compatibility. Our own son is Benton County. I mean, our ties are pretty tight, but uh you like I say, you know, had I had the opportunity to talk to Mr. Justin, maybe he wouldn't even be here. But like Bo, we didn't get that opportunity. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. Are are we adding any conditions because we have like a long agenda? So,

Mr. Smith, would you would you consider tableabling this on your own and taking that taking the opportunity to talk to your neighbors to address some of this or do we just we we can hash it out at large scale?

Yeah, I I would really request that we don't table it. Obviously, we have um goals and money invested and and you know and and a project to start uh as reasonably as possible. I realize we want to make sure everything's honored. Uh but so, but I don't I'm not going to voluntarily tap that. You know, I I guess I would speak again. I appreciate Mr. Dory's support. you know, and like you all said, you know, what if um any of those any of the neighbors down the street could become foster families, could could become uh you know, have large families on throughout that valley. So, the fact that there's going to be um what we perceive as at risk children present. Uh I don't quite agree with that. I mean, that that's going to take place naturally. It just happens to be that we um uh we actually have a full treatment staff there that most families would not be able to offer. So, I actually believe in in uh true statistics, I don't have those in front of me to to back it up, but that there's a we're providing a safer environment than the average environment than the the average family could provide if they were going to become foster family uh parents or something like that. So, so anyway, yes, I once again I would just say, you know, I think we're improving the the the facility, the area, the land, and uh and we will definitely work uh with the neighbors at a deeper level. And uh you know, again, I guess We will reach out, but I'd like to move forward.

As a reminder, this needs to be ratified. This project, if approved, needs to be ratified by the quorum court. And they have enough time, I guess, they can discuss this as neighbors and reach out to an agreement. Yes, ma'am. Sure. All right.

Thank you very much. This wasn't planned. My name is Cynthia Curalo and I live at 2054 North Bington in Fagatville. Um, one of the things in listening to this um that really got me interested was the interest that this um agency has and becoming CARF accredited. That really means something. I happen to be a CARB surveyor. So, you know, um accreditation means that agencies are hope being held to standards that are uh pretty extraordinary standards that typically are over 2,000 and they include health and safety. They include facilities. They um pretty much guarantee a community that the program is going to be um excellent in many different ways both uh administratively as well as clinically. So, I just wanted to, you know, maybe that's useful information and consideration.

Thank you. I appreciate that insight.

Okay, we we do have other items on the agenda. Um, I'm going to go ahead and make a motion for approval of conditional use permit as stated. As as staff mentioned, it will have to be ratified by the quorum court. It will have to come back to us as a large-scale development. I think there's ample time for the applicant to get with the neighbors address those concerns between now and quorum court and if ratified by the quorum court again between that point and when it comes to us at largecale development again I'll state I think large scale development is more where we get into the weeds of the deficiencies or the additional conditions that need to be approved to concern to ratify the concerns of the neighbors. So based on that and the in fact I think it's an adveral cause

and meanwhile the the court can always add conditions. So that's something also they can I'll second. We got a motion in a second. We'll roll call this one too please. All righty. Micah Thompson. Yes. Anthony Mcmouth is out. Uh Shantel Chantel Pereier. No. Robert Dry. Yes. Mara Pearson is out. Jay Pearson. Yes. And Lauren Shackle. Yes. Motion pass. Passes.

Thank you for the conversation. All right. Let's move on. Next item. Fox Hunter Landing conditional use permit. We'll start with staff report, please.

Vicinity map, site map, neighbor map. The applicant is requesting a cup to construct and operate three commercial flex space buildings. Proposed hours of operation are Monday through Saturday, 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. with a maximum of five employees per business. The subject property is 2.25 acres and is currently under contract contingent upon CUP approval. Building A will be 6,000 ft equipped with all necessary utilities. Access will be provided by two paved driveway driveways, one from East Mission Boulevard and the other from East Fox Hunter Road. There will also be nine paved standard parking stalls in one ADA compliance space. Buildings B and C will each be 3600 square ft equipped with all necessary utilities. Access will be provided via a paved driveway from East East Fox Hunter Road. Each building will include one ADA compliant parking space with a shared gravel parking area located between the two structures. A monument sign is proposed at the southwest corner of the site in compliance with Washington County standards along with the installation of security and privacy fencing. The subject system layout and configuration will be finalized following further coordination with the Arkansas Department of Health. If approved, this project will be required to go through the large-scale development process. To date, planning staff has received eight neighbors in opposition, citing increased traffic and incompatibility with the surrounding residential area planning conditions.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions of staff from board members? Okay. Is the applicant or applicants representative here?

Good evening. Uh Chase Henrix with Development Consultants, One East Center Street, Sweet 290, Fateville, Arkansas. Um as was presented in here, we're looking to do a CUP for flex space for multiple units on this property. It's a corner lot on a state highway that's receiving about 12,000 vehicles per day. According to the ROT survey in 2024, we believe that a commercial facing use in this corner property on a state highway is the best use for this property. Um, we listed in the application that we believe that these three units will have low amounts of traffic, averaging maybe 15 total vehicles a day. That's probably on the high end. Uh, the hours that we listed, 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday, are also probably more than it would be in all likelihood, 8 to 5 Monday through Friday, but we wanted to make sure we were covering our bases in our application. Um, if there's any additional questions, we're here. I've also got the developer and a few other members here that will be happy to speak to it or have any additional questions that we'd love to answer.

Okay. So, we always get this question, you know, again, you've heard it today. Conditional use permit has to be approved before large scale development. Um, it's a pretty wide open conditional use with flex space. Can you give us a little more detail on what your your anticipated uses are for these three buildings?

You bet. Um, my name is Mike Parker. Address 4457 East Pesopino Lane. I live just down the street off Oakland Zion. So, my main interest in buying this property was to build a building to put some construction equipment in that I currently mainly use to clean up my own properties. Um the property's fairly expensive, so decided to utilize more of the land. Uh building A. Uh I have an interior decorator that would be interested in putting her business there, which I think she stores, well, I've seen her business, uh stores building materials and meets with clients by appointment. Um, building B in the middle is where I'd like to put some of uh our equipment to store. Building C, I have a friend who's a builder. He'd like to have a space to store building materials, and I would like to occupy part of the back of that to store some furniture. Uh, as far as I've ever known, this property, it's been used as a commercial use. It's a big fireworks stand every summer. I would venture to say we're going to be a lot less invasive in an entire year than that business is in six weeks. We don't have any employees. Everybody's a independent contractor or owner. So pretty low impact really. And but you know I'm going to I'm going to plan if I this is approved I'm plan to own this for the rest of my life. I'm gonna build something that's nice and that you'd be proud to own and look at. You know,

well, anything we've done has been quality and landscaped and, you know, kind of the same line at the conversations you've heard here tonight. We would encourage you to if if this is approved before you come to large scale development, meet with the neighbors. I know there's going to be concerns on screening, lighting, all of that sort. You bet. Love to. Yeah. So, that that's really the whole thing. It's there's commercial businesses before and after this. We're just going to be really low impact and something that'd be attractive. I I I'm also buying the house next door to this and plan to remodel it and keep and retain it. So, it's surrounded by road and the property I'm buying.

Okay. All right. Appreciate that insight. Is there any other questions of the applicant from board members? The cup states or the request states that there are employees.

Well, I guess the there's an interior design shop I guess is where the employee that's where the parking the ADA the septic all comes in is because there would be there would be employee at the proposed interior design. The other two buildings owner deal. Yeah. The other two buildings don't have bathrooms, don't have water. Correct. Building B, I'm gonna put I plan to put a half bath in it. Okay. And and an office there. I've got two guys that run the equipment for me. Uh they're both independent contractors, you know. Okay. Yeah. All right. What other questions of the applicant from board members

sight lines on Fox Hunter? You assumed a 25 mph speed limit. Come again. I'm sorry. You assumed a 25 mph speed limit? Yes, sir. Based on the Google Street View that I was able to find a sign a little bit further uh east, if I'm not mistaken, that stated 25 miles an hour. That I know that I didn't pull it out thin air. I guess I should say. Well, yeah, that's cuz I mean if it's unposted it's 40. Okay. And that's you don't you won't have your sight lines by this math. You won't have your sight lines if it's 40. I can't imagine that it's 40. But

two [snorts] things with that. If it is 40, um there I would have to double check the math on the sight lines and the contours of the street. However, this is approaching an intersection with a stop sign. So if anybody's doing 40 at these roads, they've had bigger problems than this. Okay. Other questions of the applicant at this time? Okay, appreciate it. We'll take public comment now. If there's anybody in the public who would like to make comments this, please come up, state your name and address for the record.

Hello. Hi, my name is Cynthia Curalo and I live at 2054 Bington Drive in Fagville. Um uh thank you for this opportunity to be able to express some things for myself but also for some people who weren't able to come here today who did um express some written opinion. So we are um strongly opposed to the proposed resoning from residential to commercial. My primary concern is safety. The entrances serving Bington Park and Covington are already challenging due to turning angles, sighteline limitations, and existing traffic flow. The Bington Park entrance in particular presents a very difficult angle for safe ingress and egress. In addition, this corridor serves visitors to St. Joseph Cemetery, including elderly individuals and vehicles that often enter and exit slowly or unpredictably. Introducing commercial traffic will materially increase turning conflicts, congestion, and accident risk. At a minim minimum, a formal independent traffic impact study should be required prior to any approval. That study should specifically evaluate turning safety and sight distance at Barington Park and Coington entrances, interaction with cemetery traffic and pedestrian activity, peak hour stacking, ingress egress conflicts and accident risk. Second, [snorts] this proposal would fundamentally alter the character of the neighborhood residents purchased homes in reliance on existing residential zoning. Though zoning protections are not incidental, they are a core planning tool to ensure compatibility and stability. Changing them in response to a single development opportunity undermines that reliance and sets a precedent that weakens the

integrity of the zoning framework. Third, even with limited hours, commercial use will introduce impacts incompatible with the surrounding residential area, including increased traffic volume and cut through pressure, light pollution from parking areas, noise from customers, deliveries, service activity, visual degradation from building mass, rear elevations, dumpsters, service areas. In similar situations, effective planning practices emphasize buffering transition zones and placement of commercial uses along established corridors not within or directly adjacent to in interior residential neighborhoods. Departing from that pattern risks incremental encroachment and long-term erosion of neighborhood integrity. Finally, approval without rigorous analysis would be premature. Best practice in comparable cases has required traffic studies, compatibility analysis, and clear demonstration that public safety and neighborhood character will not be adversely affected. That showing has has not been made here. For [clears throat] these reasons, uh I respectfully request that the current residential zoning be preserved and that this application be denied.

Thank you. For the record, ma'am, this is not a resoning request. It's in the county. We do not have zoning. This is conditional use permit to allow this on this property. Just just for clarification. Also, Highway 45 is a state highway, so the county has no jurisdiction over the highway either. Just wanted to make that point as well. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, the point that we're making in general has to do with safety. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. All right. Anybody else like to comment on this item? You can always line up just like to make it quick.

Great. Thank you. Yes, sir. My name is Kirby Mallister and I'm the uh I live in Bington Park. Been there 21 years. Um I'm also the president of Barington Park Subdivision, Inc. That's the POA basically.

Um so, you know, I'm here to oppose this conditional use permit. Um, it it's going to change the character and I don't want to repeat everything that Cynthia said, but but it will change the character of of this whole approach. You've got Covington entrance, you've got the Bington Park entrance. Just before that to the southwest, you've got Timberrest. You know, it's a it's a residential area. And my fear is, you know, I don't know anything about these buildings, um, but my fear is we're going to have this this, you know, three huge buildings, you know, 6,000 square feet. Uh, the others are 3600 square feet. Um, the two buildings that are 3600 square foot are going to be storage buildings from what I understand. Um, the way [clears throat] they're oriented, you know, what kind of noise will will a speaker effect might might uh kind of develop and just noise will boom into the backyards of the people in Bington Park. Um you the plan mentioned security fencing. Um I saw one different options but one of the options all the fencing is a six foot tall chain link fence with opaque screening. Uh I mean that sounds horrible. Uh, none of that sounds like something that's, you know, in the character of these subdivisions. Um, if I had a a storage building, I'd want, you know, 247 security lighting. Um, I don't know if that, you know, hopefully we'll have that dark sky.

That could be always added. Lighting required. And the fencing, it could be added as well. Like if you want this to be tree line, that could be added. Can add this condition. Oh, that'd be nice. Yep. Yep. And then there's no reference to building height in the plans. 10 foot, 30 foot, 20 foot tall. Again, those are things we typically address in the large scale development. If if this conditional use is approved, the applicant, it'll first have to be ratified by the corner. Then the applicant will have to come back with plans, designs, and specs and have the actual project reviewed and approved by this board.

And is there opportunity for public to same notice up? you'll have the same opportunity and as you heard we are encouraging him to meet with the neighbors between now and then to share all of that with you guys prior to as well.

Okay. And we've not met or anything. Um you know from the back porch of uh at least three lots on in Barington Park. You know they're going to have this view. You know a sign lighting u you know possibly noise echoing from these storage buildings. Uh you know the back of building with a trash dumpster and such. Um, from Covington across the street to the to the west. Um, you know, they're going to at least six houses from their front door, they're going to see this. It just totally changed the character. Mr. Mallister, question. Have you had the chance to read the staff report? Uh,

we covered all like the dumpster like and all like the covering and like the fencing and all of this, the lightning. It's all there. I mean, we can always add to it, but it's all like already been mentioned. Okay. David, you didn't mention, you know, a requirement for certified dark sky lighting. Yeah. Well, that's that's not a requirement. That was something they wanted to add. And yeah, so I definitely would would see that. And then, you know, the possibility of chain link fencing with opaque uh Yep. covering. That sounds like something like a like a salvage yard. Maybe they can we can always like change that's like the norm in the county. That's what people use because it's like less expensive. But we can always add like more upscale stuff if we need to, right? Yep.

And I know that the developer mentioned he wants it to look nice, but you know, and also he is purchasing the property, the residential property closest to this. So, right. Well, you know, hoping it's in his best interest to make it appealing.

You know, that's another uh issue I've got. you know, if we have a conditional use permit there, if you look at the site maps that that came with the plan, there are quite a few undeveloped properties. Uh that could be next for conditional use permit for another kind of business uh to the north and east. Uh there's we could have more businesses and and pretty soon, I mean, it's just a lot of changes from a you know, nice, you know, almost rural subdivision. Um, I think that's uh that covers all the points that I had that haven't been mentioned before. So, appreciate it. Appreciate your time. You bet. Thank you. Thank you.

Is there anybody else who'd like to speak to this? Okay. I'm Sarah Loi. Um, my husband and I are guardians of the seller, Laura Loi, who is currently in um, memory care facility. Sorry, I'm nervous. He's fine, [laughter] don't we? We're all fine.

We definitely don't want to be here or having to do any of this. Um, this is my husband's childhood home. He's Yeah, he grew up there with that land. But the fact of the matter is things have changed. that land. It is on Highway 45 across the street from a cemetery next to a vacant lot and within half a mile there's a commercial building, a self- storage facility and several other commercial properties. Um, we need to sell the property for her care and that's what this contract is for. Um, in a perfect world, it could stay a pretty field forever or have a couple of nice houses on it, but again, Highway 45 and a cemetery and a vacant lot, nobody really wants that. I mean this the best use of the property and honestly our best management of her estate is to sell it for development whether we would you know that would be ideal or not again my husband's childhood home it's not our first choice um but I do think in consideration of that road that we've all been out east fyville the idea that right across the street from city limits is somehow still rural territory. Maybe it's count, you know, it's just not that way anymore. Um, but that's it. We're here as our guardian.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it, ma'am.

Hi, I'm Denise West. I live at 3712 East Chadwick and um one of the property owners south of the parcel. Um I had a question. Uh if if the property is sold, my concern is it's you know an interior uh decorator might be okay today, but is there a possibility that I could be living behind a Burger King 10 years from now? That's my concern. And I wondered what the definition of commercial and what the potential

it's a conditional use permit that we would be allowing. There is no zoning in the county. So we're not reszoning this to commercial. Is a conditional use permit that we're looking at today. If it's approved, it goes with the applicant. Correct. Yes, sir. like the the conditions and the conditional use permit approval like um um stay with the land and like transfer to the next like property owner owner like if if he keeps the same use. This conditional use is for these three buildings. If somebody bought it, they could continue to operate those three buildings. If they wanted to tear them down and build a Burger King, then if this whole process would start over, it would take a new conditional use permit, a new large scale development.

Yeah. And if this business for like any reason does not like pickup, the zoning stays the same as a single family resident. So it does not change the zoning. Okay. Just we're giving them the privilege to use it for commercial use. Okay. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your question.

Good evening.

Good evening, members of the board. My name is Justin Cassulli. I live at 2280 North Coington Park Boulevard. uh are the resident owner with my wife. So, we're a home located within the 300 feet perimeter about the third unit in from uh the street. And I'd just like to reiterate what's already been said uh in terms of the rural and uh uh character of the area, the media area. And I understand that there may not be zoning in the county, but this is right where the city and county lines change. And a number of us live on lots that are in fact zoned for residential single family units. Uh larger homes, larger lots. There's a reason we we bought homes out there and paid what we did. Uh I think of the gentleman earlier said, you know, I moved out in the country for a reason. May not be quite the country, but it's it's not uh it's not college. have um to add a little bit of color to the intersection here. As you as you exit the Covington Park Boulevard, uh the Coington Park Cington Park subdivision on Coington Park Boulevard, you're looking at uh East Fox Hunter Road and and your the cross street is is Mission Boulevard. Um that's a very very busy road network now and and only gets busier every day because of the development both around us. residential and out to go. Um the it is especially busy in the morning hours in the afternoon Monday through Friday and on Saturdays. So exactly the times when we're talking about having any kind of a commercial activity here and saying well it would only be there there's already a lot of traffic. The road is already inadequate. I understand that there's the the problem here is it's a state situation. It's a city situation. It's a county situation. I would suggest that in the immediate future in the next 5 to 10 years that intersection will have to

be rethought completely and I would suggest that that lot would be best left undeveloped at least on its western corner at the edge of it because in time I can imagine where if something is built out there the city or the county or the state whoever's going to have to deal with it is going to have a problem where they're going to have to reimagine the the road network and there's then now there's going to be something built there structurally Um, traffic moves very quickly. I can tell you that as you exit North Coington Park Boulevard and you look to your to the east on Mission, the elevation of the road goes up and there's a blind spot there and you cannot see the the traffic coming down. So, it's very it's very dangerous to exit. So, I see that this plan has a a parking lot e exit for the proposed activity that's even further up where there's even less point is there's even less warning to see what's coming at you. um the the residents that live in the in the surrounding subdivisions, you know, we're constantly using these intersections in this road network to go to work, to bring our children to school, to go to go shopping. Uh there are kids in the area and the more we introduce more traffic and commercial activity I think is an overall uh negative. Um, I also just want to make a point from our backyard as the third house in this this property that the elevation ra it goes up as you go east. So, speaking of the fireworks tent, we're very familiar with a fireworks tent. We we get to enjoy it every year for a month. Uh, and because of the of the elevation of the ground, if we're in our backyard, we see the tent. It's it's it's up. And so, you can hear and see the light. it it projects down into this into this valley where Covington Park and the other and the other neighborhoods are. Um, and I can say that by the end of the month we're we're ready for the I mean, God bless America, but we're ready for the fireworks to go at the end of the month. So, I can So,

it's a good test case for the residents. So, I can only imagine a commercial activity there that was permanent regardless of the light, whether it was Ca downward cast. Uh I just think it would be that the noise the light would be a nuisance again to people who live and move there for to enjoy their residence and it would impug on our our quiet enjoyment of our home. Uh so again like I I I just want to add my voice to the um to those objecting to the to the to any change in use of of that lot and and I understand the process. I I think the challenge here is this is as again was said earlier on another case. It's where you let the the horse out of the barn. If you if you approve this conditional use permit I I understand there's more opportunities down the road to tweak this or that. But once we say this can be used for commercial activity then there's no going back. And I also fear that in five or ten years, while it may just be a storage facility, which is not attractive to us, but there's nothing to say in five years, it might not be a Subway or a Domino's pizza takeout that doesn't that may not require a lot of of new uh additional administrative effort. And so that's that's very

again to what we said earlier, this conditional use permit is for these three buildings only. Anything else would ever go on that property would the process would start completely over. But if there's three units, three commercial units, could I not could not one of them change over to be a subway? No, sir. The conditional use permit is for these three flex buildings. Anything other than those three flex buildings would take a new that would be a different use. My understanding is one of the buildings is basically like a like a strip what I'd call a strip center with three three storefronts in it. Yeah. The office the office

that would that would be a different use. It would require a new conditional use permit. If there were anything other than what is proposed within that, it would take a new conditional use permit. Okay. Okay. Well, that's that's everything I had. I appreciate you guys. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Anybody else want to make comment on this? Not supposed to, but I'll give you a second bite of the apple. Well, I just had a question.

Yes, sir. So that the large building with the paved parking in front of it, it's 150 ft by 40 feet or I think it's 6,000 square feet. Um could I guess could the owner, you know, divide that into a half a dozen different businesses? I guess he could. Is that

Chase? Do you want to ask of this? So typically with flex spaces and you as this board have a opportunity I'm a planning commissioner so I deal with this sometimes um you have an opportunity putting conditions on that I don't believe it's defined as a certain percentage of retail versus warehousing but typically with flex spaces it's a portion either retail or office space and the remainder being a warehousing space. um some of the questions that you've addressed here about if if it were something any any other use than that where that combination of warehousing and frontage for a business either office or small retail then it would have to come back before this board again to seek additional uses. So no otherbody nobody else can go in there. And uh as of this time and conversations with the owner, the three uses that were presented before with the his him occupying one, another uh construction type company using it and then the interior design are the intended leases for at least the foreseeable future.

Okay. Thank you, sir. Chase, any any consideration for like the egress ingress or like any modification?

Absolutely. So there was comments made about traffic and safety and ingress and ingress. Um general traffic studies have st shown for any development that you would like to take uh at least if possible you come off of a lower volume road in this case Fox Hunter. We do have one access that we're showing off of Highway 45. Um that's an existing both of those accesses are existing on the property today. So we're just utilizing two of those and adding a third for buildings B and C. Um, we, this was a concept plan that's presented here today. If there's any concerns about having those three entries, we'd be more than happy to work with staff to address those. And, uh, you know, if we need to do a combination and have just two entries or something along those lines, we happily work with everyone to do that. It's my professional opinion uh, for traffic study that this doesn't meet the threshold to require anything. Um, we would happily provide it if this board or if the large scale process demands of it.

What were what were your estimations for traffic count for this proposal? Roughly 15 vehicles a day. 15 vehicles a day. Okay. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

All right. Anybody else like to make public comment on this? Okay. Seeing none, I'll close it. Bring it back to the board. Questions, comments, concerns? I'd like to narrow down the focus just like the applicant stated because right now when I saw flex space I said no not compatible. And so when you start looking at is it residential? No. Is it agriculture? No. But does it service residential or agricultural? Agriculture? No. Interior designer? Yes. Builder? Yes. Mr. Parker's equipment? Yes. Because it's it's involved in that industry. Now the way that the EP is written it. I could see how there could be there because we could take office space,

carve out a piece, make a vape shop. It could be retail. We we weren't specific on what could be or could not be at all. So Sam is this conditional use permits written now would not allow retail sales. Correct. It will. and that but the idea is like that will be like the discussion between the owner and the people who's going to rent from him and most of the time they will have like a rigorous um legal like contract between them to what can and what cannot based on like the studies they do. So they could they could but uh I don't think we have anything in our ordinance that can limit what type of business that can go.

All I would say is that if if if I were to support it it would need to be office based limited office No retail without additional C. Okay. Because I think you change the you do change the the neighborhood. There's there's not think about this. There's no retail till you hit mission crossover. Well, that's selling service. They're not you got a vet clinic across the street and down less than a quarter of a mile. You got to concrete across or down the street less than a quarter of a mile. So you got professional office down the street. Correct. So an office that that local residents would use, right?

At least at that point, you're supporting residential base and it's that's not density. It's not there's not going to be a lot of traffic to see a designer or professional e attorney, CPA, whatever. They don't have that kind of volume, right? Vape Shop something that's you would definitely say is out of character for the location. So that that's not specific. It's not prohibited if we did that. So if if I were to to to support it, I would I would want the the the the businesses that Mr. Parker defined as part of the C and some additional and I would like to see the lighting dark sky compatible with So do you want to add this as a condition?

That's that's me. If I'm to make a motionbody Yeah, you need to make a motion. Then I would like to make that motion that that the the three specific call them tenants or occupants are in the CU and that we have dark sky um lighting requirements. Wish the county attorney was here. I mean we've got proposed tenants. We don't have actual [clears throat] tenants. Yes. So I think you need to then it's restricted to to Now he did list specific two tenants himself, right? And then a friend specifically that was a builder. So what what about just eliminating retail?

But your point is if could interior design be considered retail. See what I'm saying? I mean I don't I don't consider interiors retail. That's that's you consider do you consider the vet clinic retail? You consider tin concrete retail? I mean those are compatible projects to what this is that's in this same area. Neither neither have a stand where they're selling. No, I understand. But the tune concrete started out as an architecture firm and sold to a ton to tune office. I think that's but you would if you have a specific tenant then you're disallowing that opportunity. That's why I'm saying office is office. Okay. And that's that's where

so I would suggest you make your condition that it remain office warehouse and not specific to those tenants. warehouse piece of that's that's where like I really don't consider this so like the warehouse but when we say flex space that's that could be anything and everything because they're so I mean that that would be the first time look we approved something like that and it could be anything I mean like it could be anything it's up to the applicant to be to I go back I go back to the architecture building y

they sold the tin concrete that was if you limited that conditional use permit to just the group that that built it for the architecture firm then tune concrete they would have had to come back for a new I I don't think that's no they would have under that scenario right which they didn't and I'm not arguing that part I'm not saying that they should have I hesitate saying that conditional use is limited to the three tenants as proposed y because that doesn't give the land owner any opportunity if the ar if the land if the interior design group went out and a CPA firm goes in without having to go back through this process.

Then office and then how do you want to word the other two? I think it's office warehouse. So do you want to limit it to office warehouse as businesses because we have to write something. Sure. And vote on it. Office warehouse. I would like to see the the dark sky and so uh business are restricted to office warehouse and dark sky lighting and so and this is where this is I'd like to see some additional screening beyond screen that's large scale development I mean we can we can add it so like this screening like across the east yes east border like b on fox hunter

okay on fox hunter that would limit like the visibility that makes it like hard that like there is yeah you cannot limit you cannot limit visibility three four neighbors on the other side so if you add like trees there like that will kill like the side visibility of the road that will become like incompatible with anything it's in the back of all these buildings are we talking here yeah green giants I don't trees but or south or like east south south see I haven't studied the design enough to know where I want screening because I do that for large scale debate. Then then

we're already talking about changing ingress and egress if if your if the site maps change or the site study changes. We don't even know exactly. Ingress and egress could change the positioning of the building. Again, I think that needs to be addressed at large scale development. Okay. Then strike. Oh yes, strike that office warehouse point one and two that with the understanding that when this comes to large scale that that I'm gonna be [clears throat] sitting here business are restricted to office understand what we're talking about if you would please come forward so you've seen the conditions staff conditions this point you're good with staff conditions state I believe the state the ones that were written were more or less what we proposed in our application

what this board is talking about doing is adding two conditions one that lighting ordinance will meet dark sky and two The conditional use is restricted to office warehouse no retail. The question I would have um it's probably Sam this may be for you and Savannah is is office clearly defined in your development code. No, it's not. That's as business. We have business as well. I asked that not to muddy the waters, but I don't I don't want to sit here and say yes, we'll accept that and then office also allows for retail or you know how that how that happens. I I don't want to and and kind of you know where I'm coming from is that I don't office is not going to present a traffic problem. I I really don't believe that well

retail something that has the retail feel to it or that's actually doing retail business. I think you do see I don't have as much issue on traffic as I do compatibility. I built a house in Bington Park in 2003 and traffic was horrible then and how many houses and developments have been done since 2003. I mean, it took me 15 minutes to take my kids to Vanderggrift from from from Bington Park subdivision in 2003. So, if you think about eliminating every house that's been built in East Fable since 2003 because it adds 50 cars to a daily traffic study, there would have been no development in East F.

Mr. Check, that traffic, I mean, it's it is what it is. It's a state highway. There needs to be a light there, but that's the state highway department's call. It needs to be four lane. That's the state highway department call. I mean it's we've battled I served on city faval planning in 99 through01. I served on go planning for the last 15 years. We battled east favable traffic forever. The problem is it's a state highway and we have very little jurisdiction over it. So I don't know that traffic is the argument for this property as much as compatibility in my definition number 25. If you don't mind if you want to read it sir if you can't see it. I don't know if I can see it from Come on,

Savannah. Commercial land use. A use that is connected to or furthers an ongoing profitm activity including but not limited to the true use of land. Savannah can read it for Yeah. So see office space and retail shops are in the same are in the same definition. So we can't split them out based on our ordinances. Can I say one thing about Sure. Go ahead.

You know we have our my use. I don't ever want to change something different from that. I think the builder's same way. And hopefully the interior decorator would continue to work out and be there forever. I would consider part of her space to be retail because she's selling products.

You know, you're building a $2 million home and you're picking out tile and window coverings. I don't know all everything involved with it, but I would consider some of that retail because it's not all just consultation in my opinion. and I don't want to invest a couple of million dollars and then something happens with this tenant and you can't rent it to another tenant. That would be a similar type use. I mean, I don't think any one of you would want to do that either. I'm not going to. So, if you restricted it to just one use or another, you know, and I understand you go in there and put a restaurant in, that's a whole another deal. That's a new conditional use. That's a whole another thing. But if I have an insurance office or an attorney or somebody like that, if a space came available to continue to make your payment,

you could be that restrictive, could you? Yeah. You will you will be required like just like for safety and future like to have like uh with any tenants to have like a contract with them, right? I mean, and that's that's like a common practice. And you can always restrict them to like noise common like hours of like noise between 7 to 10 p.m. like not after or like 10 to 7 a.m. Uh, and like traffic, you can always like limit them to how many employees they can have. That's all like going to be on you just like as a good steward like of that property and a good neighbor. So, that's something you can What did you say the traffic count was on that road? 10 to 15 on Highway 45. 2024 was the last count. It's about 12,000 vehicles a day.

Yeah. So, I mean, you're adding 50 cars a day to 12,000 count. I don't think traffic substantially. Not not at all. Um, and if one of the points we made is, you know, this is a highway frontage route. Is it really best suited for a residential lot? I would argue no. Can I ask another question? You have to approach the mic. Okay. That's something Q&A. Another question. Is it possible to restrict um vaping, cannabis, alcohol? I mean, that's what we're talking about.

That's what we're talking about. We're trying to figure out can you just restrict those three uses and then he can lease it to anything else but not cannabis, vaping, alcohol. And that's the concern. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's up to that. I think so. Is that a list? That's not the Q&A session. We need to we need to Can you Sam can you legally do that? Can you restrict uses in a condition? It's up to the It's up to the owner. Would you be agreeable to restricting cannab can cannabis, tobacco, and alcohol future uses on the property.

Mr. Parker, sorry. Is it just like for requirements? I mean, I I have no thoughts about that at all. As far as wanting to do that or intending to do that, the more restrictions you put on a property, the more it's devaluated, etc., etc. you know, this is a heck of a big investment for me and it's going to be a nice addition to what's around it. I'm going to own what's beside it as residential. So,

one thing I can add to this like from like experience and like we've done project like that, if there's like let's say like there's an alcohol shop or like vaping shop or something like that that needs to go through like a state regulation and they do have like distances and approximation to homes. So that's not something I can't tell him what to do. If the state says you cannot have like a liquor store next to a church within that distance, this is it. So that would be a state. Again, I think we're getting beyond conditional use permit reach here and getting into large scale development. And this is not the city of Federal. We don't It's really not a question and answer. I'm going to let you go one more time and then we've got I've I've closed it to public comment, but I'll let you comment and then we're gonna be done. It's a question. Yes, ma'am.

Yeah. Um, so there's been a lot of um consideration about the property being used by interior designer, etc. like it's a guarantee. I I mean I haven't heard anything about a contract or about anything that really assures anyone that this is the way uh the property would be used, the building would be used. It's an idea. So I mean those ideas can change. So I don't think that we really should consider that as something concrete. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. We have brought it back to the board for action with the two added conditions. I don't know. I don't. So it's just like this as our ordinance is written. Yeah. The light the light condition.

So the light sky maybe the light sky you can do. I don't think you can restrict as our ordinances are written. Sure. Just like making sure. Yeah. Of flex space includes retail and I think a dark skylight commissioner's points are are accurate. I think the argument would be an interior design person is retail business. So is that your motion down there? Was that way?

I mean it's watered down such that it it means nothing anymore. But I mean if if it was strictly office if we had that ability then absolutely but I mean I am struggling to to see how it is compatible when when you can hypothetically put whatever in. Again, I would point out there are professional business office buildings in very close proximity. Um, you know, like I said, I lived in Bington Park since 2003, and it's commercial use during the fireworks. You see Ozark Electric, SwepCo, other folks park commercial trucks there. I mean, I I agree that highest and best use of the property is commercial. I don't see this corner property, you know, with concrete on three sides of it being developed as residential. U I like the fact that the applicant is going to own the closest residence. So, I mean, he's kind of buffering from the other neighbors with his own property and it's going to be in his best interest to make that compatible because he's going to try to lease to remodel and lease the property that's most affected by this. So, Um, again, and I know I've said this way too many times, conditional use permit is for the opportunity to develop the property. The actual development will be addressed in large scale development where specific issues such as screening, lighting, and those sorts of things can be addressed and restrained.

Mr. Chairman, I live out that away and I I I understand all the concerns of the neighbors and but I'm going to move that we approve the Fox Hunter Landing CUP. I really think that's the best use for that property. There's a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Second. We got a motion and second. Let's roll call this one. Sam, definitely. Micah Thompson. Yes. Anthony McNut is absent. Shantel Pereier, yes. Robert Dry, yes. Marla Pearson is out. Jay Pearson, yes. Lauren Shaker, yes. 52. All right. Yep. Passes.

That passes. Appreciate all the input on that. Um, all right. Let's move on. County land development hearings. Let's go to item D. Bethl Heights Preliminary Subdivision. Start with a staff report. Does anyone want like a two minutes break? Yeah, let's do let's take a two-minut break.

Two minute break and we'll come back. Quick question.