Municipal Council - Regular Meeting

Welcome everyone. The meeting of the Lawrence Township Council now come to order.

It's great to see so many people out today. I'm guessing it's not about our regular work of refunds and things like that. I'm going to get right to it. Statement of proper notice, adequate notice of this meeting of the Lawrence Township

meeting acts that this was forwarded to the transcoming the times of the prince impacted on december 12 2045 in addition to the years on our website that will we shall arrive for the expression may we carry out our work at this meeting in a just honorable and sincere manner always bearing in mind our duties and continuing to keep lawrence a wonderful community in which to live I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Ms. Farmer?

Here. Mr. Clear? Here. Mr. Kenaki? Here.

Please introduce yourself and your thoughts.

Special proclamations, recognitions, and presentations. By the proclamation to congratulate James Dean on achieving 31-time championship on Jeopardy. So I'm going to stand over there and read the proclamation. Bring all the things. Township of Lawrence, do you want to? Yes, come on up. I'll let you hold this. Township of Lawrence, County of Mercer, State of New Jersey. Resolution of Township Council congratulated Jamie Dane on achieving 31-time championship status on Jeopardy. Whereas the Township Council the township of lawrence wishes to recognize and celebrate residents who bring honor and distinction to the community through outstanding achievements and whereas jamie ding a proud resident of lawrence township has demonstrated exceptional intellect composure and breadth of knowledge on the nationally acclaimed quiz show jeopardy and whereas through remarkable skill and dedication jamie dave achieved the extraordinary distinction of becoming a 31-time champion a rare accomplishment attained by only a select few contestants in the history of the program making him the fifth all-time joking winner. And whereas this achievement reflects not only the personal excellence, but also serves as an inspiration to the residents of Lawrence Township, especially students and lifelong learners, highlighting the value of education, curiosity, and perseverance. And whereas the success of Jamie Daniels brought positive recognition and pride to the township of Lawrence, showcasing the community as a place that fosters talent, intellect, and achievement, now, therefore, be it further resolved the township council of the township of lawrence county of mercer state of new jersey that it hereby extends its heartfelt congratulations to jamie ding for becoming a 315 champion on jeopardy and be it further resolved the council expresses its sincere admiration for this outstanding accomplishment and wishes jamie day continued success in all future endeavors and be it further resolved that a copy of this resolution will be presented to jamie ding as a token of the township's pride and appreciation

So we also have a plaque, and this says, this Morris resident became the fifth highest-winning Jeopardy champion of all time after a 31-day winning streak, also becoming the highest-ranked New Jersey champion in Jeopardy history. Answer, who is Jamie Dane?

I don't know.

Lawrence Township is proud to present the key to the township to Lawrence resident Jamie Dane in recognition of his outstanding achievement as a 31-day Jeopardy! champion on this day, May 19, 2026.

yes uh just thank you all very very very much i'm really glad uh i was able to do something nice for for lawrence for new jersey for for all for all the lovely people um between fearing being a bureaucrat and being a law student i bet uh i mean less time to participate in the community than i would prefer to be you know an engaged citizen so uh And yeah, you know, stay curious.

Thank you. Thank you again. Great way to start the evening. Good job. We're now moving on to public participation. I will read, I will preface. The purpose of public comment period is for members of public to inform the government body of reviews. This time is an opportunity for Taship Council to listen with care to the public and to consider what we hear in our deliberations. It is not a time for back and forth dialogue as it can be difficult for us to give accurate responses on critical and complex issues on the spot. Rather, one can call or email members of council, managers, or clerks seeking additional information or response to an issue. I'd also like to read two excerpts from the Lawrence Township Administrative Code, Section 10-22, Manner of Addressing Council. A person may address the council upon recognition by the chair. The person addressing the council shall write down their name and address on the sign-in sheet, step up to the microphone, shall give their name and the audible tone of the voice for the record, and shall have the right to address the council in the amount of time noted by the chair. No person counting the floor shall be permitted to enter into any discussion either directly or through a member of the council without permission of the chair. No question shall be asked of the council person except through the chair. Also 10-23, according to council meeting, any person making impertinent or slanderous remarks or who shall become boisterous while addressing the council shall fortunately be barred from further audience with the council by the presiding officer unless permission to continue or again Both participations open to five minutes.

The next person to speak.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council, and congratulations to Jamie on the honor. My name is Bob Lerner. you i reside in fort benedict road my wife and i and our family have lived there for over 30 years i am the current president of the roseville acres homeowners association a group of neighbors of some 30 residents i'm here speaking tonight on behalf of myself and my capacity as president of our neighborhood association and as a member of the steering committee of the lph coalition which opposes zoning changes you are considering. I'm going to read some statements of objections for the record. The proposed zoning change represents illegal and unconstitutional spot zoning in that it is creating an artificial interior zone that is surrounded by ETS's remaining property. This unique interior zone would not normally be created as a matter of conventional zoning. and is being implemented solely to facilitate the landowner's desire to alter zoning on a part of its property to build an 800-unit residential development with retail space while retaining all other pre-existing zoning and avoiding the need for required use variants. Number two. This proposed zoning change is an intentional effort to allow the landowner to avoid the burden of seeking a required use variance that would normally be required in the change of this drastic nature for a small or fractional portion of its property. By this device, the landowner is free of the difficult burden of satisfying the positive and negative criteria that would be normally necessary for a use variance. By allowing the landowner to avoid the use variance process, the township, we believe, is illegally evading the municipal land use law that requires the use variance to protect the public and our neighbors. The proposed zoning change fundamentally alters the community zoning plan in that this property is adjacent to and or is in the vicinity of a preserved area or an area deemed environmentally sensitive and should be subject to a use variance so that the negative criteria, of course, can be tested and proven. The proposed zoning change, we believe, is inconsistent with the goal of preserving natural resources in the township's master plan, since it will encroach on and intrude upon the ecology of the adjacent and historic Stony Brook, an area that is also habitat for at least one endangered species, which we believe to be the brown mussel, and is a sensitive ecology. The area of the proposed zoning change is also a relatively low density office industrial area. ETS itself has low density usage and only for the work day, and not usually at nights, weekends, or holidays. This proposed zoning change will introduce contrary, obviously contrary, high density usage into this part of the community on a full time, 24 hour, seven day a week basis, contrary to the traditional and overwhelming zoning uses in this section of the community. The proposed zoning change is also contrary to the master plan's goal of preserving the community character its visual character, and for all new development to be compatible with the size and scale of existing structures in the vicinity. The proposed zoning change is contrary to and inconsistent with the township's master plan that seeks to maintain, preserve, and environmentally sensitive areas in the township and to protect such areas from intrusion and harm from adjoining developments. The proposed site is next to or in the vicinity of undeveloped open space on and off the ETS property. And the proposed zoning amendment is inconsistent with the township's master goal of attempting to obtain and expand open space. On behalf of myself, my neighborhood, the LPH coalition, we strongly urge you in no uncertain terms to reject this proposed change that you are considering.

Thank you. Mayor, Mayor, Board of Boarders. Yes, Mr. Sattler.

uh mayor it is come to my attention that there may be a legal issue involving excuse me item 11b which is ordinance 25 11-26 that i would like to address at this time to possibly save some time with regard to public comment, not to in any way limit public comment, just to make the public aware of what's happening with regard to this matter.

All right, Mr. Sackett. Thanks. Thank you.

Before proceeding with the scheduled public hearing and consideration of Ordinance 2511-26, I believe it is important to advise the governing body and the public of developments that occurred at last night's Planning Board conducted a public hearing regarding several proposed revisions to this ordinance. These revisions were made in response to comments, concerns, and recommendations from residents and other interested parties at a prior Planning Board meeting regarding the ordinance as originally introduced by Township Council.

Following further public comment and recommendations from the Township Planner,

Beth McManus, the planning board, voted to recommend the inclusion of this revised language. As a result, the version of the ordinance now before the township and before the council tonight differs from the version originally introduced, noticed, and served upon affected property owners and nearby residents.

Although I view the revisions as primarily clarifying rather than substantive,

I believe it would be improper for Township Council to proceed tonight with a public hearing and a vote on the ordinance in its revised form. The agenda, public notices, service requirements were completed based on the originally introduced version of the ordinance.

Under these circumstances, it's my opinion that proceeding tonight could raise concerns about compliance with the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act and broader principles transparency, and adequate public notice. Had the Planning Board rejected the proposed revisions and returned the ordinance without modification, the Council would be in a position to proceed with the hearing and vote this evening. However, that is not the procedural posture presently before us this evening. Accordingly, it is my strong recommendation that the Council recommence the process for the finalized version

the ordinance intended for consideration once the ordinance language is finalized the council should ensure that all statutory notice and service requirements are satisfied including any personal service obligations applicable under the new jersey municipal land use law and all the requirements of the open public meeting act that are fully met before scheduling the ordinance for public hearing and adoption so i think the matter 11b should not be on the agenda because of a defect in the process that the ordinance as presented under the Open Public Meeting Act is not what was changed by certain revisions at the planning board last night. And as such, to be fair to everybody here, It should be re-noticed with whatever the revisions are and give the opportunity for people to review it and comment at a future meeting. So it would be my strong recommendation, as Counselor Paterni, that you do not have the legal authority to have a public hearing this evening. Thank you, Mr. Sattler.

I heard your wisdom, expertise, and And much deeper understanding of the Public Meetings Act and all the other legal matters facing us. I was at the planning board meeting last night. I thought that the changes were good, but I understand the concern of both you as well as I'm assuming those on council as well as the public that they would like to see something in writing before proceedings.

Yeah, I'm not commenting on whether or not the changes, the revisions are de minimis or substantive.

That's not before me.

The only thing I'm commenting on is adherence to the Open Public Meeting Act as it applies to this ordinance or any ordinance, not just this ordinance.

And it would be my position that given the fact that certain revisions were made, they were not posted 48 hours ahead. They were not available to the public. And as such, it would be unfair legally to have a public hearing

Did you do that?

All right, thank you.

No, no, we hadn't posted. No, this was not posted.

It was not posted.

No, it happened in my office. That would have to, would have been posted 48 hours later.

Yeah, yeah, he did. He did notice.

The question was whether

piece that we had so no yeah there's no revisions no public revisions one quick thing we've already had the five we can have three later i didn't know the meeting was allegedly going to be canceled if this is going to be canceled i just want to make sure that my prior remarks are on the record whether this meeting is held or not held this evening they're on the record they're on the record

This meeting is occurring, sir. Mr. Lerner, the meeting will proceed. Welcome.

Thank you.

Good evening, Lawrence Town Council, members of Lawrenceville. My name is Frank Cusack. I actually reside in Hamilton. I'm coming to you actually today as the founder of the Coalition for Healthy Water. or some of you may have heard my work on Facebook. I began the coalition after the Hamilton H2O Open meeting that Everytown had when it came to the Trenton Water Works rate increase in the summer of 2025. I also started the Voto Confidence in Trenton City Council petition that is on change.org. Currently, we have 457 supporters with more every day. I've spoken many times with the Trent City Council, Hamilton Town Council, I'm now coming, I finally, unfortunately I finally have time to come in front of you guys. Recently I requested the full rate increase study from REC TELUS that prompted the H2 Open meetings last summer, that was the basis for the rate increase. After a month of extensions on my BOCRA request and going in front of City Council, I did receive all pages of that rate study. In the introduction letter of the rate study from the CEO of Revitalis to Sean Semple, the director of Trend Waterworks, he writes, we had to make significant assumptions which reduce our certainty about the ultimate revenue impacts of the rates. Only a page and a half later in the study, it says Trend Waterworks did not have all the data needed for the study, and some of the data that was provided was not of a high quality. As a result, Reptiles had to make certain assumptions to complete the study. Two weeks ago, I went to the Hamilton Town Council meeting. You can find that on YouTube, where it was announced that they actually increased my town's legal budget to continue their lawsuit against Trent Waterworks. Last week, I was in attendance at the State of the City Address. The mayor, Mayor Gioschora, discussed many things that night. One of the main things that he discussed in regards to the Trent Water Works is the capital improvement plan. One of the cornerstones of that plan is the decommissioning of the Pennington Ab Reservoir, which is actually over a decade in the works. That should have been done 12 years ago to meet state regulations, and we still have an open, uncovered reservoir. I am consistently... sharing information that I've received with a local journalist. He and I work tirelessly to dispel a lot of what's going on at the Trenton Water Works and share it with all of the region that is being serviced. And one of the reasons I'm here today speaking to you is to actually say hi. And that I hope I can continue to help the residents of Lawrence who are serviced by Trend Waterworks in any way that they need to continue the fight to get safe water, secure water, and an equitable solution to the continuing issues at the waterworks. Thank you. Thank you.

As a Trend Waterworks user, and someone who's been dealing with it off-council, I think as well, so that

Hello, my name is Alex Friedman. I live at 286 Carter Road.

It's a farm.

It's the kind of place the township's own master plan identifies as part of the rural open space character it's committed to preserving. I'm here as a neighbor, a farm owner, a taxpayer, a citizen who believes that democratic governance works when elected officials govern with their constituents, not around them. I want to begin with something I think we all agree, that non-rural obligations are serious and legitimate, and the principle that no community I honor that obligation. I'm not here in any way to fight affordable housing, but I am here because the way the township has pursued its housing obligation in this place, at this scale, by this process, is just fundamentally wrong, and I have five points to articulate why. First, this deal was not done in a transparent manner. As we understand it, ETS leadership approached the township expressing interest. It was formally acknowledged in June 25, fourth round housing plan, So we had a financially challenged nonprofit trying to potentially solve its balance sheet problems and found a municipality that needed housing units. An understanding was reached without the public being appropriately involved. By the time your taxpayers and neighbors learned about what was being planned, the planning board had already voted. I want to be fair to ETS. I know they've lost contracts, and they may have to change their space needs, but that's not the township's job to solve their financial problems, if those exist. Obviously, the township's job is to serve the people who live here while complying with state law. And those people were not considered in a reasonable manner. I want to quote the municipal manager, quote, we have a fiduciary obligation to comply with the law and act in the best interest of the community. I agree completely. I'm trying to understand how a process from which the community was excluded fulfills that obligation. Second point, the township's own words indict the decision. Where nature smiles for 22 miles, wetlands represent over 20% of our land. It's not a slogan, it's a legal commitment.

Their master plan enshrines the preservation of rural character as a core planning objective.

Rezoning it for 800 units at ETS is fundamentally inconsistent with that commitment. The tension runs deeper. The June 25 housing plan acknowledges the environmental constraints on the site, wetlands, vernal pools, flood-prone areas, Category 1 stony brook. We documented the problems preceded anyway. We know that Category 1 waters carry the highest level of protection in New Jersey. This stony brook is not an ordinary stream. COPA, Lawrence, Pennington, Princeton, were all partners in an active regional watershed plan committed to safeguarding water quality, reducing flooding, enhancing climate resilience. We signed that commitment here in Lawrence. How can building a small city along that stream be consistent with it?

The vernal pools do not recover. We know that.

The ecological damage once got there. The number of endangered species are the bat, the turtle, the webbed mussel, the chasey, numerous protected birds among them. These are federally and state protected species. This is potentially a federal flood zone. It's federal jurisdiction at play. Has that been considered appropriately? Number three, the site's the wrong location by the town's own affordable housing standards. Our own principles call for affordable housing to be sited near public transportation, town centers, and services that low-income families depend on, grocery stores, medical offices, walkable schools, transit connections. These are not aspirational preferences. That's what makes affordable housing work. ETS fails on every one of these criteria. Number four, the alternatives have not been seriously explored. Local land trusts can be part of the solution. Other institutional users can be part of the solution. Have we explored all of these alternatives appropriately? Number five, 800 units, let's talk about it as people, not as units. That's 2,000 to 3,000 new residents, 1,500 cars. For every resident, Every errand, every commute, every school drop-off is a car. That's 1,500 daily car trips. Then you add in the services, the retail stores. That's another 400 workers and commercial vehicles. That's 4,400 vehicle trips a day. That's 1.6 million miles a year.

And I use New Jersey's crash statistics.

That's 50 crashes a year, one a week. Over 10 years, which is a blink of an eye for a community, that's 500. That's fatalities. And if you think I'm being alarmist, I spent years working on the night shift at the Princeton Rescue Squad, taking people and our kids out of these cars. And it will fundamentally change this community. Have we done the studies, the appropriate studies to understand the traffic implications? I don't think so.

In closing, we're fully committed, as you can tell, to fighting this proposal through every legal, civic, political avenue available to us.

We've got council, we've got alliances, we're not going away. But we're here to work with you. You are our elected representative. We're your constituents.

We're not your opponents. We're the community you were sent here to serve.

And the path that serves this community doesn't end with a vote tonight or whatever this is rescheduled. It pauses. It listens. It honestly demands the alternatives. And the council has the chance tonight or whenever this happens to choose the right path. Thank you.

I'm just so disappointed in our government for the reasons that Alex mentioned but because When I was growing up there was an expression you can't fight City Hall and that expression came from the oppressed people of New York City who were fighting Tammany Hall for decades. And Tammany Hall, a little history lesson if you need it, was a totally corrupt, totally democratic, sorry, Arthur, organization that totally oppressed the people of New York. It's not the way government is supposed to work. It's not the way it was designed. And Alex couldn't have put it better What we have here is a sense in the people that we were cut out. And when you saw that we became angry, you continued your mantra, which I'll credit to Kevin Iwinski. This is good for you. And we keep saying, we don't want this. And you work for us. And there are 100 alternatives. and you're not even willing to work with us to find some sort of answer that will make, there are hundreds of people that are extremely unhappy. Mayor, I asked to have a meeting with you. Kevin, I asked to have a meeting with you. And you refused. And this was early on, when we were looking for some sort of common ground, when 185 people gave me their email addresses At the first meeting. That was so stressful. We keep saying. We don't want it. Kevin keeps saying. This is good for you. And we keep saying. Work with us. And find another answer. I'm not going to get into the details. Which Alex said so beautifully. I just want to ask you. One more time. Where is 35. towns in New Jersey are fighting it for their own personal towns. Their boards and councils dedicated 20 grand from their town budget to fight this kind of oppression all the way up to the Supreme Court, and we in Lawrence are fighting with you, where you should be representing us and joining the coalition that's in the Third Circuit that's going to the Supreme Court to give people a voice in their government again. I live at 58 Carter Road. 52 Carter Road, 60 Carter Road, and 62 Carter Road are up for sale as of this occurrence of this first March meeting. And they're all being sold for $200,000 less then their original listing prices, which were around 600,000, they're now down to 400,000. So the prediction that was made at two zoning meetings before is coming true already. And I believe one of the participants said, yes, property values will go down.

They're going down, they're going down now.

And all we're asking, like Alex said so articulately, work with us. Let's find another solution. Let's join this coalition. Let's go to the Supreme Court with this. It's a government of the people, by the people, and for the people that we are simply asking for.

So, my comments are on the land use ordinance. Could you state your name? Marilyn Roman. Thank you, Ms. Roman. And my comments are on the land use ordinance number 251326. And I'm a long-time resident of 59 Beth Avenue, which borders block 801 block 24. one, two, one, there's a round property. The subject of the AT5 overlay district that is part of the proposed amendment to the land use ordinance of Township of Barnes. Betz Avenue is a narrow, dead-end street with curbs on both sides.

I'm going to pause your time, but we will be hearing... Is this the wrong time to state this?

Yeah, if you want to... Oh, that's fine. I want to be sure when was the prompt of time.

I appreciate you coming up now.

Okay. So let me know when I can come up.

Those will be a public hearing on that. Okay. I'll make sure. Mr. Sipek reminds me.

That was confusing. Yes, it was. Okay.

So just for the record, since someone said it was confusing, on second readings of ordinances, there is a section for public comment about that. that particular . So you can, it's more appropriate then, but if there's anyone else who has any public comment. There's also a second public comment later. So with that, I'm going to close public comment and move on to seven, review and revision of the agenda. I think we have at least one item to remove from the agenda. Mr. Sagnac, do we have a need for 18H6 code session?

No, I don't think so.

So we can offer him with 18H6?

Yes.

All right. Anything else? Do I have a motion for the changes?

I'd like to move to remove 11B and 18H. Ms. Farmer?

Yes. Ms. Chiquita? Yes. Mr. Comadre?

Yes.

Ms. Sanchez? Yes. Ms. Bonner? Yes.

Do I have a motion for 8A, adoption as agreed.

I'd like to move 8A, adoption as agreed. We have 8A, regular meeting, April 21st, 2026.

Ms. Farmer? Yes. Ms. Aguilera?

Yes.

Mr. Kanacki? Yes. Ms. Cintas? Yes. Mayor Bobbitt? Yes. I have a motion for 80.

Motion for 80, regular meeting May 6, 2026. Second.

Ms. Farmer?

Yes.

Ms. Cintas?

Yes.

Mr. Kanacki? Yes. Ms. Cintas? Yes.

we can kind of keep it down a little bit i appreciate it thank you now we're on to nine awarding and rejecting the bids is that a motion for my hand i'd like to move 9a number 182 authorizing awarding a bid 26-06 uniform restaurant for a three-year second thank you mr erwin for a cleaning contract for a total amount of thirty thousand five twenty six

Any questions from the public about this bid? For my friends in the audience, can we keep it down so that some people can hear what's going on? Thank you, I appreciate that. We have plenty of space outside. I'm sorry.

There was no comment.

Public comment. Yeah, seeing that, I'll close with a public comment about the business. All questions, please. Ms. Fromm.

Yes. Ms. D'Elia. Yes. Mr. Konecki.

Yes. Ms. Sender.

Yes. Mayor Bobbitt.

Yes. We're on to 10, introduction of ordinances. Do I have a motion for 10A?

Pledge move 10A, ordinance number 2517-26, an ordinance with the township of Lawrence and Mercer County, New Jersey, authorizing the acquisition of certain real property located at 843 Brook Road, block 7801, blocks 33, 34, and 35 for recreational purposes. I'll second.

Second.

Thank you. Mr.

I will say it, and then you can supplement it. Sure. This is for a portion of land running along the roadway that will be used for extending the Lawrence-Opril Trail. This ordinance is required by law for the Township to acquire the subject land through either voluntary negotiations with the property owner or seek to acquire the land through a condemnation action if the negotiations fail. I can report to you that the contact, our attorney has contacted the property owner's attorney. in discussions with regard to this and this ordinance will actually legally allow the town to enter into negotiations so it's a necessary part of the process that is correct and we anticipate meeting with the property owners to hopefully resolve this thank you doing the proper things to follow along um any questions

Ms. Carver, call the question, please.

Ms. Farmer? Yes. Ms. Shigeru?

Yes.

Mr. Kanerki? Yes.

Ms. Hinton? Yes. Mary Godwin? Yes. I have a motion for 10-B. I'd like to go to 10-B, ordinance number 2518-26, an ordinance of the Township Council of the Township of Lawrence, County of Mercer, State of New Jersey, establishing the Lawrence Township Arts Commission. Second. Second.

I am not going to differ on this one.

Yeah, so everyone, tonight I'm introducing an ordinance to establish a Lawrence Township Arts Commission. This will help us foster local arts, support cultural programming, and create more opportunities for artistic expression in our community. As part of this, we'll need passionate volunteers to serve on the commission, so I encourage anyone interested to submit their applications once, and hopefully this is approved in the next meeting or so.

So I do have one comment just for discussion purposes. If the council were to do this, I would ask for consideration that this become effective January 1, 2027. We don't really have a funding mechanism because we just recently passed our budget. But considering how fast time flies and this whole process, we may get right up to that point anyway. So I just want you to consider that.

Right, understood. Within the ordinance, there is no budget needs. This is simply an advisory board on cultural programming at this time. Yeah, right.

So in 2027, we can revisit it. Because some of the other committees, there is a funding portion to it to allow for events and things like that. So I'm certain that this would be one of those types of committees.

Mayor, if I could add some comments. And obviously, as I join with my councilwoman here, I am super excited. As a lover of the arts myself, I had a little bit of a stunt in the arts growing up. Arts is a very big part of my education here in Worcester County. So I'm very excited because this will enhance the richness of our community and culture. And not to mention that it could also have a tremendous economic and development opportunities for the industry in our town. Many of you know that Film Ready and also the film industry has really gone gangbusters in New Jersey and we're really excited about that. And also it gives people an opportunity to come together in our community, our schools, and to express the cultural richness of our members of Lawrence. So I really want to celebrate what brings us together as a community and just remember that art heals, art moves, and art saves. And I really believe it saves lives. And more than ever in our world today, I believe that arts are an important part that need to be a part of our young artists, especially the young people. Thank you.

Ms. Jaber? I just wanted to... applaud the Councilwoman for her initiative on starting this commission. I love an advisory committee. I think that they are the best way to hear the voices of people in the community and I'm very excited to see this commission started. Mr. Brummer?

Yes.

Mr. Kanacki? Yes. Ms. Santos? Yes.

Mayor Bobbitt?

Yes. 11, adoption of ordinances.

Do I have a motion for 11A?

I'd like to do 11A, ordinance number 2510-26, an ordinance repealing existing Article 9, affordable housing procedural and eligibility requirements of the Township Land Use Ordinance in entirety and replacing it with a new Article 10, affordable housing procedural and eligibility requirements, affordable housing ordinance.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Mr. Now this arises out of a mediation agreement with fair share housing center and updates regulations to implement our round four housing element and fair share plan.

Yeah, I think it's also, I'll just add as a member of the planning board that we, the planner suggested to us that it was easier to basically just change a whole cloth and try to edit it and bring it up to current standards. That's why it's a whole rip you under place. Any questions from council? Seeing none, any questions from the public comments?

This requires public hearing.

Yeah, that's why I didn't ask you. Oh, public comment. Seeing none, I'm going to close public comment. Ms. Farmer?

Yes.

Ms. Giglio? Yes. District Connections. Yes.

Yes.

Mayor Bobbitt. Yes. Do I have a motion for 11C?

I'd like to move 11C, ordinance number 2512-26, an ordinance amending section 421, Regional Commercial RCA District, article 4, zoning district regulations with the land use ordinance to permit increased inclusionary development at the Quaker Bridge Mall property in accordance with the Township Mediation Agreement with Fair Share Housing Center. Ordinance amending RCA Regional Commercial Districts. Thank you. Mr. Irwin.

Yeah, this arises out of the communication agreement with Fair Share Housing Center that requires the township to permit an additional 100 homes on the QVM site in our round four housing element in Fair Share.

Thank you. Any questions from the council on this?

SEEING NONE ON THIS ONE I'M GOING TO CLOSE FOR THE COMMENTS YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Now this arises out of the remediation agreement with Fair Share Housing Center that requires the Township to permit inclusionary development at the property known as 3450 Princeton Pike in the adjacent lot along Lenox Drive. And I also want to indicate that there is a correction that's needed to replace where it references on page one that lot 121 needs to reflect lot 21. Which section is this? Page one.

That's a tremendous change. All right.

Any comments or questions from the council? I believe, Mr. Secker, this is the time for public hearing. Public hearing. I believe it's for all.

Yes.

There's no time limit, but don't go 30 minutes. Don't go crazy. No, I won't. But you can say it.

You don't sound like you're talking. It's Marilyn Roman, and I'm a long-time resident of Beth Avenue, where Twitter's block 801 is on. There's around poverty the subject of 85 of relationship as far as the proposed That's a new is a narrow dead-end street with curves on both sides Resident vehicles are always parked along the street at any given time during multiple and with multiple resident vehicles typically parked towards the top of the street and for Betz Avenue and just set the points in place. And I have the attached photo. I'm requesting that the amendments to the land use ordinance include language that would specifically prohibit a discharge from block 801, 21 Merrick Around to Betz Avenue due to the narrowness of the street and the fact that resident people always parked along the top of the street where Beth Abnett intersects Trenton Pike. And a lot of times if cars are coming up and somebody's coming down, somebody's got to wait at the top of the street, and it's really a hazard. And I know that the proposed amendment already specifies that driveway serving individual townhouses shall not access existing public roads. However, there is no current prohibition of the parking lot for any development from accessing Beth's Avenue. And such a prohibition needs to be included, in my opinion, in the ordinance to make it safe on Beth's Avenue. So thank you for listening. Oh, thank you.

Did you want to enter that photograph into the record? Give a copy to the clerk.

Thank you, Bernie. This is coming down the street. We'll put it in the room.

Thank you. You need this? No. Thank you. Anyone else for a public comment?

No.

Sylvia, I'll sign in. If I remember correctly from the planning board meetings about that ordinance, there was specified that there's only going to be one driveway going into Princeton Avenue and not any access to Betz Avenue. So if I think that was, that's in the ordinance, and the platter. Well, it's still, if it's still a, only one driveway into that property, it's only going to be coming in from Princeton Avenue and not that. So I think there was a specified thing in the ordinance, if I remember correctly. But only one driveway. So because as the planner explained it during the planning board meeting, she specifically did that so there is no access to that. Yes. So just the report from the planning board. And thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Curtis. I think that's a legal question. What's to stop, what's to stop Council on the Planning Board from, hear me out, passing this, potentially passing this ordinance tonight, and then circling back with the planner about the issue that Ms. Roem brought up, and if there's something that, that there's a concern we could amend.

We could always amend it. We could always amend it, yeah. I do appreciate you putting that out there.

um it's not in stone so yeah and that's what i thought i just wanted to ensure that so um my recommendation is to uh vote on the ordinance as proposed because it's scheduled for an adoption yes this is

always subject to amendment. This was as a result of a mediation agreement with Fair Share Housing. So if council is impacted by what the resident has said, you can instruct me to engage our municipal engineer and planner to visit that issue and make sure if it is appropriate to amend it, we comply with everything that we need to comply with.

And that was what I was going to go for next because having been on vets, I understand how tight it is.

Any other questions or comments from council?

Seeing none.

Oh, wait, oh, sorry.

Hi, my name is Michelle, and I live on Helena now, going straight over from MEPS. And I would like to just say that there's a whole big problem here that I see with traffic. and with the safety of the people that live at Project Freedom. There was a light installed by Project Freedom not long after they developed it because they saw there was problems with people on motorized wheelchairs that were trying to go back and forth to QuickCheck, McDonald's, and so on. Even with that light installed, I have seen many people get very close to getting run over. I don't think it's very safe for them. I'm very concerned for their safety with these developments both by the merry-go-round and across the street where Benzo's is located. And a big concern also is traffic. I work, and when I leave the work, it takes me quite a while just to pull out of my street onto Princeton Avenue because with Lucky 7 across the street, We have trucks, we have police officers, we have firefighters that line up their trucks all across Princeton Avenue all morning. They buy their breakfast, they buy their lunch. There's not enough parking at Lucky 7 for the business that they create there. And adding these two complexes, I think it's just going to create a huge traffic problem. And my biggest concern actually is for Project Freelance. I don't have anybody who is in that situation, but I have gone in that area to vote. I have seen many people struggle with their disabilities there, and I'm just concerned they might have a lot of difficulties with these big complexes.

Thank you for listening. Thank you.

Thank you for coming out to speak.

Can I ask a question? There's no light there anymore, correct?

Any other comments from the public?

Any other comments from the public?

good morning my name is susan burkett i grew up on best avenue i wanted to respond where she said that the ordinance says just one driveway access to whatever development is there at lot 21 will be the princeton pike i've read the ordinance with the markup copy multiple times It does not say that. We want language in there that absolutely prohibits any discharge from Lot 21 to Betz Avenue. And I disagree with you passing this ordinance and amending it later, because that means we have to come back and make sure that you do it.

Thank you.

All right, I'm going to close public comment. Final questions, conversation, debate from the council for a public question.

All right, Ms. Hart. Go ahead. I wanted to see the picture.

all right all right yes yes yes yes yes yes so i have a uh motion for 11 e

I'd like to move 11E, Ordinance Number 2514-26, in order to repeal existing Section 901, Affordable Housing Contribution, with Article 9B, Guaranteed Inspections and Off-Draft Improvement of the Council's Land Use Ordinance in Entirety. I'm replacing it with a new Section 901, Affordable Housing Contribution, Affordable Housing Redevelopment B Ordinance. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second.

I have a second.

I have a second.

I have a second.

I have a second.

I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second. I have a second THAT REQUIRES THE TOWNSHIP TO TAKE ACTION THAT INCLUDES UPDATING REGULATIONS TO IMPLEMENT THE ROUND FOUR HOUSING ELEMENT AND FAIR SHARE PLAN TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE RECENTLY ADOPTED AMENDED FAIR HOUSING ACT.

ALL RIGHT. I'LL MOVE IT UP FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION PURCHASES. I WANT TO DO THIS 11E. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. ALL RIGHT.

I'LL CLOSE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. Ms. Farmer? Yes. Ms. Dixon? Yes. Mr. Konecki? Yes.

Ms. Sancho? Yes. Mayor Bobbitt? Yes. 11F. President of 11F, ordinance number 2515-26, ordinance appropriating $1,930,325 from the Capital Improvement Plan for various capital improvements

in and by the Township of Lawrence and accounted for a certain period. I'll second.

Second. Mr. Nowinski. This ordinance allows the Township to use approximately $1.9 million from our capital improvement fund. Essentially, our savings for major projects that pay for various infrastructure and equipment improvements does not involve new debt or additional taxes. Rather, it uses funds that have already been set aside as previously authorized by the government for these purposes.

Thank you. One minute for public participation. Yes. This is public participation about this ordinance. Not at all.

My name is Aisha Vincenzi and I live near some of the roads that are specifically listed here. And my question, my concern was whether this is limited to these particular roads' names or that they are included, but there could be others named by the Township Engineer later. I called the Engineer on May 11th and left a voicemail because two of the roads in my neighborhood, Lawrence Woods Homeowners Association, are completely cracked now and starting to create potholes, and I called hoping that all R2 roads would be included in the next plan. Now, if he has or she has discretion to work on additional roads, that'd be great. But if not, I'd like to ask that R2 roads be quickly studied and included here because they have the same conditional problems that I've seen on these other roads.

So I appreciate your comments, but is that the next ordinance? This one was just about capital. It wasn't a road improvement plan.

No, but you think of it this way.

You already did it.

So now I'm on the record. It's on the record.

Would it be all right if Mr. Nowitzki answers this question now? Absolutely.

Yeah, it's kind of procedural, right?

Well, our road improvement plan is every year there's a study done. and determinations are made which roads receive the attention based upon their condition moving forward. So the roads that you have concerns about, if you've identified them to Mr. Parviz, who is our engineer, he certainly always takes that into consideration. And this, to specifically answer your question, these roads are the roads that are going to be dealt with through this particular ordinance.

So it's specific and limited to what's written down here? Correct. Okay.

But that's not to say we...

It doesn't mean that he doesn't have other funding to adjust.

Sure, absolutely. Thank you. And thank you, Francis, for allowing me to answer that. Anyone else from the public wishes to comment on the capital improvements? Seeing none, I will close it. Any questions, comments today from council?

Seeing none, Ms. Carter, one more question. Ms. Cramer?

Yes.

mr glia yes mr kaneki yes the same concept mayor yes and now do i have a motion like with 11g order number 2516-26 orders providing for various road improvements mill and overlay including all work and materials and invited township of lawrence and the county of marston new jersey appropriating two million four hundred and thirty thousand dollars in capital improvement funds

What I said last time. All right, I will open it back up for public comment, and if anyone wants to talk more about . Any questions or comments ? Ms. Farmer? Yes, Ms. Giglio?

i don't have anything to report on operations but if you have comments i am not a politician i have not run for elected office there was an individual that came up at public participation she's left and she normally leaves early to not hear the follow-up discussions but she attributed quotes to me specifically twice she said this is good for you that i said this is good for you it's patently false and if i remain silent and don't say anything i get the sense that it somehow validates what she's said and i just can't have that i'm just not built that way i would never say this is good for you my job as the municipal manager and the community development director I'm the guy that has to answer the phone calls. Somebody for the township must deal with these issues and take the calls and make sure that the town complies with the law at that beginning stage. So I'm the guy that has to do that. And I accepted that responsibility and I will do it, but I will not accept advocacy that says false statements or attributes false statements. Just won't do it. And I apologize. I don't want this to be me talking every time. And I didn't do that during public participation because I didn't want the back and forth. But that offends me. I'll own everything that I say in public. Absolutely everything that I say in public. I did not say that. Because I don't think it's good for you. But we have to deal with these issues. They're difficult issues. People are upset. Emotions run high. We've got fiduciary obligations on our side that involve the entire context of the community, affordable housing obligations, and who we are as a community as it relates to the law that we must comply with. And it's not fun, and there will be disagreements, but man, we should just be at least honest in our advocacy. We should at least tell the truth. And I just wanted to clarify the record for that. I've never said that. I would never say that. Nor do I ever want to take these phone calls about developments. They are not fun. I'd like to hide. But we've got to deal with them. It's called professionalism, and it's called what we decided that we would put ourselves in this spot to make these decisions and represent the community to the best of our ability. Sometimes we're on the wrong side of having to deal with something, and it's unpleasant.

the fps notifications um which is your funding disclosure anyone that has not done it please do it

of that meeting you're not gonna find uh june 10th the local finance board will be meeting to discuss that um i did send out a reminder notifications yesterday may 26th through 31st you know it's election time um early voting will begin um also um there's a information on the township website on county website and the court's website The deadline to apply for your mail-in ballots is May 26th, and the deadline for in-person ballot applications would be June 1st, 3 p.m. Let's see. And then I did give you a little prior, and it's thanks to our deputy manager that we have a little Lawrence Township clothing store. So let me know if you want to order something, and they have the goods here. because I know you do community day and other events that you make them too. And that is all I have today. I'm going to finish business.

All right. Maybe I should. New business, old business. Let's take a break.

all right i am pleased to announce that we have scheduled the first in a series of master plan slash affordable housing community conversations the date will be june 11th at 7 p.m at the lawrence senior center info will be sent out shortly but i wanted to get the details thank you i'll leave that for later um anything else for you this is all right

Public participation, three minute presentation for the speaker. Anyone else?

Is this general public or is this some? No, this is public.

This is your last chance, Mr. Glick, if you want to come up and say something. Three minutes, though. Yeah, I know. I won't start now, though. Maybe it's time for that.

Jim please present for 45 years and

General Commons. One I want to call on record is sympathizing with the lady back here who said about passing the ordinance and the fact that you may be able to amend it later. If I was in that position, I'd feel exactly the same way. People have jobs and stuff. They're not all like me. They're able to be here. And, you know, I don't understand There's probably a good reason, but I don't understand why, in such a situation, the actual ordinance can't be postponed until the decision has been made about whether to change it. And the other thing, early voting, I know it's necessary and many times important. But when I was looking at my ballots and my wife's ballots, which happened to be different parties, there's nothing to vote on virtually. And I wondered if it's possible to make that look shorter, if there's any possibility of that, if not now, but in the future. It seems like an expensive proposition for people to sit there for multiple days when There's nothing to vote on unless they bring somebody in. And the last thing I sympathize with Mr. Gomez is there's no easy answer to this affordable housing or any of this development. I can't imagine what it's like because everybody's in favor of it, but not in their backyard. And I'm sure if I was affected, I'd be the same way. And I sympathize with ETS, but at the same time, I sort of agree with the gentleman that said that's not the neighbors there to bail them out. But a more significant thing that rang a bell with me that I hadn't thought of before is that for affordable housing, parts of the development, I know it's not going to be affordable, but having being near public transportation and things like that are maybe more important. The 3131 Princeton Pike is, none of them are easy. They all present traffic difficulties and all that. The 3131 Princeton Pike is near public transportation and seems more appropriate. And I know it's I know it's not either or, but it seems that type of place seems more appropriate maybe to the affordable housing part of it. Thank you.

Mr. Mayor, do you have a comment? Mr. Clegg, could you stay there for one second? Because I want to answer one of your questions, okay? With regard to the ordinance, this was the subject of mediation conducted by and overseen by a superior court judge because we were challenged with our affordable housing. this was the subject of the mediation, and the Superior Court judge told us we needed to get these things passed by March of 2026. And because we've taken on more public hearings at the planning board in here, we are significantly delayed, and I don't think a Superior Court judge would think that the reason for the amendment that could be done at a later date should stop this council from voting on adopting it. So that's the reason why I made the recommendation. Let's comply with the court, have this thing adopted, and certainly, you know, you can leave your phone number with us and we'll communicate with you with regard to the amendment that's gonna happen with regard to it. And then, the second thing. There was another thing. I'm lost. The other thing. I'll remember it.

Don't feel bad. My age will forget more than that. Anyone else? Come on up.

This is not the subject of a land use application. There's no developer that's come before the planning board or the zoning board.

So this is an overlay

And so there is no designated specific units. That's not a part of what we're doing here. What are we doing? I'm thinking we're complying with our affordable housing obligations as directed by their share housing.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Part of affordable housing in the state of New Jersey is inclusionary zoning. and allowing the potential for affordable housing to be built. So at Quaker Bridge Mall, we had an overlay for, I believe, 350 units. And that has been expected, and nothing has happened over the third round. And so Fair Share Housing came back to us and said, hey, we don't believe you are making a good faith effort or an effort to allow for affordable housing to come here. How about you up it to 450 with a slightly greater density, I believe? Yes. And so this was another site where... Nothing's being built right now. It's being approved to be built.

It's the potential. No applications. Basically, you're approving anything anybody can build. I wouldn't say anyone can build anything. If you're approving it now, why wouldn't you? There's no approval process here tonight for any building whatsoever.

And there, I remembered the second thing for Mr. Cleek. All right. So you had to ask the question about affordable housing being located in areas close to public transportation. That's generally, there's certain levels of affordable housing, and that's generally for 100% affordable housing complexes, like what we have on Texas Avenue, right? So every development has a set size of 15%, 20% of affordable housing. And you would be surprised to see the eligibility income that's involved with affordable housing. And most of the eligibility, the people that qualify have cars and are able to have transportation, but those that can afford it go to these other locations. And that's the reason why places like the Texas Avenue one is kind of really critical to the Township Supportable Housing Program because it's specifically situated there. And then these other locations, they just have to do with eligibility requirements and they do mostly all have cars or at least one car. So the transportation element is not as intense of a need. So I just wanted to get that.

Anyone else?

Can the infrastructure handle all this? Come back up please if you want to say anything else. I'm not investigating this stuff back and forth from a seating position. Can the infrastructure handle all this new building that we have?

There's problems with water and everything.

Thank you for your comments.

And we'll move to 18 resolutions.

I'd like to move 18A through 18H5 in a block. Second. Ms. Farmer? Yes.

Mr. Konecki? Yes. Cintas? Yes. Yes. All right. 19, council initiatives and liaison.

Mr. Patrick?

Sure.

Thank you. On Thursday, May 21st at 11 a.m.,

New Jersey Department of Military Affairs will be holding their Memorial Day service. Being it's military, 11 o'clock it will start. You have to go past the guard shack. They will tell you where to park. And they will have seats for people to sit down in. And then on Saturday, May 23rd at 10 o'clock sharp, we will be and the Lawrence Township Memorial Day Parade from the high school, going to the Veterans Park. And that will go off at 10 o'clock sharp, military time. Do you have a date? Not 10.01. 10 o'clock. My sergeant down there knows what I mean. But everyone's welcome to come to it. And I know recreation will what we do in the hot salt water. Now, the rain date, I don't believe we have one.

No, there's no way to orchestrate a rain date with all the different participants involved.

We have to see what happens when Nancy calls 6 o'clock in the morning to tell me how wet it is and if it's going to be canceled. If it is, it will be put out. But there is no rain date.

This month was my first meeting as liaison for the trails and open space community. The committee reviewed and discussed the status of their priorities for trails and open space in Lawrence. There are many great ideas and many productive discussions about the various projects. I look forward to working with the committee in the future. They're a wonderful group of caring, volunteer community members, and I'm excited to help identify and develop new trails and open space communities.

Yes, two things. First, I think Councilman Panetti forgot one detail about the event, and that is he will be our Grand Marshal for this year. We're so honored to have such an esteemed Grand Marshal this year. Secondly, just one thing about the Business and Economic Growth Committee we did meet last week. And they are still accepting applications for a student liaison. So a student has to go to school in Lawrence Township, of which there are several schools. And it is 10th through 12th grade. I believe the applications will be able to come online. But please, if you know any young person that might be interested, encourage them to apply.

Okay, the DEI committee has not met as of yet. We're meeting this coming Thursday, but I just wanted to remind everyone that we will be celebrating Juneteenth on June 18th at 10 a.m. here at Town Hall. I wanted to share that I, not one of my reports, but I got the opportunity to participate last Friday on the historical game between Maidenhead and a member of their team. Forgetting their name. So that was a very exciting, well-attended. We played baseball. It was the 1860s. And we played by those rules. No gloves, shorts. A lot of neat rules. It was a lot of fun. Our young people, little leaguers, really enjoyed seeing many of their coaches play. I actually didn't play. He was the first pitch and was the manager. But it was a great time. It really, it counted, collected what our town is about. You know, the young people were super excited. They're not so young people. They were out there playing baseball and it was a great time. And if I could, Mayor, I just want to take a moment to just make an address with regards to all of the talk that we've been doing about affordable housing. And I just wanted to remind the public, I feel like there's a group that's not being represented when we're having these discussions. And I just want to remind everyone just some of what is so great about Lawrence Township and our town. And we have been really good stewards of providing affordable homes for people. And those folks are young professionals that are looking to start out their careers and maybe can't afford, you know, as expensive a home that may be in our town. And this really, our doing of providing affordable housing really gives an opportunity for workforce counting for our teachers, our police, and our firemen to live here in our community. So we're doing a lot of work as a town, the planning board, all of us, to provide those opportunities for people that ordinarily may not have the ability to live in such a great community like ours. So I just want for people to remember That's about the college students that's just graduating. It's about the attorney that's just getting started in their career. And as I've mentioned, you know, it's not about necessarily someone who can't afford a car or ride a bus, but it's oftentimes about people who want to have home ownership, you know, someday in their life. And it just really gives them an opportunity to do that here in our town. So, I just want to put that out there, you know, that it's, we're not, that does not representation of people who would be living in this affordable housing. So thank you.

allowing young families to come here. I think it would shock many of you in the audience, and those who have already left, what those levels are for Mercer County in terms of income for a family of four. It's quite a bit of money. And to provide it quite happily. I will also say, as the liaison to... Yeah, if I will try. Sir?

Sir?

Sorry. We're almost done. We're in the home scratch zone. If you want to have it, no worries. And then I'll say as the liaison for the environmental green advisory committee, one of the things that we are looking at is water quality issues. The chair of that committee also serves on the planning board. That's one of her passions. And so when I hear comments about we don't care about the stream and stuff, it's far from the truth. uh uh eventually that will get to the planning board some of their recommendations as well as they're still working on a white paper about um turf fields i i am going to continue to say that at every meeting because i love mr minsky's eyes bug out when i say um with that um i've seen no written communications we don't have oh sorry i should have said

old new business. Kevin, can you give us an update on the RFP for the community center, please?

Yeah, this is for the public because you all know that we have a document that I have circulated to each of you asking for some comments back in the areas where I feel like the policy part applies. Mr. Cybeck and I have worked through the document. I think it looks pretty good. And if we all get a consensus from you, then we should think about either having this up for the next meeting in June or before then at a special meeting for this limited topic. But that's something for you guys to consider because we did have a plan in terms of a timeline. And if we consider doing a special meeting, we have a great shot of meeting the timeline by having received bids by the end of August.

I will say take privilege. I would say I would love to have a special meeting. I'm available. AND I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR US TO HAVE A SPECIAL MEETING TO GET IT DONE, PUT IT OUT THERE. I KNOW THE COMMITTEE HAS WAITED A LONG TIME TO GET HERE, SO I THINK, YEAH.

NEW SPEAKER AND MAJOR ELEMENTS OF THE TASK FORCE'S RECOMMENDATIONS ARE INCORPORATED IN THERE AS YOU SAW. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE FEEDBACK SO WE CAN KIND OF GET THIS THING OUT. NEW SPEAKER ALL RIGHT. NEW SPEAKER I SEE A LOT OF HEAD MOVING, SO I THINK WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT ABOUT IT.

Would it be, Ms. Carter, would you, Lisa, sort of find out dates from us and then be able to notice? Yes. Okay. So I guess from the five of us, let's give Ms. Carter any dates that don't work for us. And it would be at, would we be summer hours at that point, 6 o'clock? We are at summer hours, and I should have said that. June, July, August, 6 p.m. 6 p.m.

I mean, it was starting for the summer schedule.

But I think we're going to try to get it, I guess, next June 2nd's election day. So we'll figure out the next election day.

So the only thing that kind of makes sense, just to jump in here, is like the June 4th or June... Yeah, maybe the Thursday. Yeah, because then we're right up against the June meeting. Right. So it doesn't really help us.

Just as long as it isn't the week of election week. okay yeah because we are very they said okay we may have just an election thank you all