City Council - Regular Meeting

We start with an invocation. Do we have anyone that's going to give us an invocation today? Thank you.

Yeah, I'd like to invite Bonnie McDonald to the podium. Can you turn it up? Thank you, Bonnie.

Okay. If you would pray with me. O Lord, our God, King of the Universe, we welcome you into Grant's Pass. And we thank you for the beautiful city you've given us, the forests, our river, and our amazing wildlife. Help us to protect it and preserve it, and bless all those who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. Be a shield of protection for our police, who are working so hard to keep us safe, and our firefighters who are working out in that heat to put the fires out for us. We thank you also for our liberties, our freedom, and our abundance of food. There are things that only you can fix, so we come in humility and we ask for your help. Help us to see things that diminish or limit the plans that you have for us. Give us clarity of thought and focused intent to do what is good and right for our city and for all of our residents and give us courage to stand against evil and wickedness that steals the innocence of our children. Thank you for all those that have gone before us to selflessly serve our community and nurture a culture of respect, integrity, creativity, and hospitality to our tourists. Bless them abundantly for all their efforts. And we thank you, Lord, for your mercy and grace on our lives and for leading us on this journey. Come and have your way in our city and have your way in our meeting tonight. We sincerely ask this in the name of Jesus. May you be glorified. Amen. Thank you.

Please stand for flag salute. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. So we're going to start tonight with a special recognition. I'm going to turn it over to the City Manager.

Thank you, Council President. Tonight we have the privilege of recognizing an extraordinary act of dedication and service. Mark Camarillo, can you please come up and join Public Works Director Jason Kennedy? What makes this especially meaningful is that this commendation didn't originate within the organization. It came from a member of our community, Bill Lovelace, who felt strongly that City Council should know about the exceptional efforts that Mark provided. When recognition comes directly from our citizens, it speaks volumes about the impact of our staff and how we serve the community. This act started the summer in June on a Tuesday night at approximately 8 p.m. A major water line failure occurred right in front of Oakview Gardens off of D Street. Thousands of gallons of water, this is a major water line, thousands of gallons of water were rushing down the roadway and into the storm system. The situation was urgent because it was impacting 60 senior citizens in the residencies. They were suddenly without water when the line blew, destroying both the meter and the back flow devices. In response to the call, the water department, Mark Camarillo, arrived swiftly on scene. What followed was hours of intense hands-on, physically demanding work, valves failed, pressures mounted. It was all chaos trying to get this thing fixed. And the challenge grew more complex by every minute. Yet Mark never hesitated. He worked tirelessly well into the night to get the flow stopped, restore service, and ensure the residents of Oak View Gardens would not go without water. Through sheer determination and skill, he succeeded. And around 11 p.m., water was fully restored. Thanks to his commitment, the 60 seniors woke up the next morning with their essential water service back on. This employee went above and beyond the call of duty. His dedication, resilience, and willingness to push through adversity exemplifies the very best of public service. Tonight, we honor him with a heartfelt thanks and recognition for his exceptional efforts and his unwavering dedication to our community and to the protection of our precious water supply. Mark, greatly appreciate your service to our community.

Okay, first council action item tonight is a resolution implementing the moderate income revolving loan program and authorizing the city of Grants Pass to enter into agreements with the Oregon Housing and Community Services. And we've got Justin. Thank you very much, and you'll lead us off.

Thank you. Justin Gunalsberger, planning manager. We just met on Monday, so here we go again. So this is a presentation about the Middle Income Revolving Loan Program. Before he was a resolution implementing the program, this authorizes the city to enter into agreements with the Oregon Housing Community Services and then also with developers later on. And this is to further housing and homelessness, offers incentives to support access to quality and affordable housing options. So you last heard this in November last year. I believe it was the third of November at a council workshop. At that point, council gave staff direction to bring this back for a hearing. So that's why we have this resolution here before you. The resolution and exhibit A are in your packets. It starts on page one. I believe the exhibit then is on page seven, and that establishes the policy for the program and the guidance on each project application when they come in for funding requests. So what is MERL? MERL is the moderate income revolving loan program. It was established in 2024 through a major housing omnibus bill. It's been since updated a couple of times in 2025 and 2026, just expanding funding options and then clarifying some affordability enforcement measures. One thing unique about this program is that it provides funding for households up to 120% of the area median income. So this can provide some incentives for some housing projects that may not get funding otherwise. It's also unique in that it gives money directly to the cities and or counties that are sponsoring jurisdictions instead of to developers that are developing this. And it's to serve as a gap resource. So if the project would otherwise not meet funding requirements, the MERL fund can actually get them to the finish line and provide that additional funding. So just to kind of review, you may have seen this before, but this is the income chart for Josephine County and shows you what the area median income is for different household size between one and four people. So you can see it goes up to 120% of AMI, which is considered moderate income based on the state program. And it does actually include, it can include other other programs. So it's not specifically limited to 120% of AMI. So it could be for very low income or low income housing projects as well. So this is just a little diagram to kind of show you. So they call it a revolving loan program. So funding starts at the state. It then comes to the city or another sponsoring jurisdiction. It then goes to the developer. They provide the housing. And then through payments, either a fee-in-lieu of structure or... Other payments come back to the county tax office, which then is dispersed back to the state. So once the loan or the grant is repaid in full, then they can provide funding for other programs as well, or other projects, sorry, and other programs. So this is just giving you an idea of what some of the eligible uses are. So one thing that this is interesting is that they can pay system development charges. They can do pre-development type costs. So design, consulting, acquisition, infrastructure. And it can be for new housing or it can be conversion of non-residential structures into housing. So the resolution includes two financing options. So option A, is more of a grant, and then if the developer goes through that, there's a 10-year tax exemption on the property. They pay a fee back that goes to the county and then to the city, so the county will take up to 1% for their administrative costs. The city can get up to 5% of that payment for our administrative costs, and then the rest goes back to the state to repay that program. Option B is more of a repayable loan. So the property is taxed at the full tax rate, and then the developer pays the loan to the city. They don't get a tax break. There's no fee in lieu of. It's based on a traditional cash loan repayment. So the city actually offers our full faith and credit as a backstop if the developer ever defaults on that loan. So some of the advantages and disadvantages. It is zero cost capital, meaning the money comes from the state. It doesn't come out of the city's general fund. It does provide some missing middle housing or workforce housing for those households that generally earn too much for other subsidized. It's a permanent revolving fund, so once the funds get back to the state, they can issue those funds for other projects, which If the city has a project, we can get more than one project in our city. We're not limited to just one funding round. The state provides all the underwriting. They provide us examples of the loan agreements and things like that that we can implement. So there is a long-term commitment to the city, even if we can reimburse our administrative costs up to 5%. We still have monitoring and tracking of those payments, making sure that the developer is meeting the affordability objectives. Again, we're offering our full faith and credit in case the developer defaults on the loan for option B, and it does cut temporary tax revenue on option A, so schools and fire wouldn't get the full tax. Under option A, the property would be taxed as if it was undeveloped, so pre-development cost through that affordability, so the 10-year repayment period. So we're currently on step one. This is the originating resolution. So this allows us, the city, to enter into the intergovernmental agreements with the state. They also have to enter into one with the county because the county's actually collecting the taxes through option A. And then, We would set up the agency loan agreements and then riders that would go into those. So numbers three and four are actually included as exhibits within the intergovernmental agreements from the state. So those are all generated. We have an option to, or the ability to review those and provide additional language within those depending on how they're written. And then those would actually get included in the project funding agreements. So how this works is once we're all set up with our intergovernmental agreements, the developer applies to the city. So we have time to review that. So number one there is site approval verification. So they don't need full land use entitlement at that point. They provide us information that they can meet the zoning um so again those fundings can the the program funding can go towards design and consultation fees things like that so they don't have to be through the land use process ready for building permit ready for construction they have the county actually does a tax increment differential so that determines how much money they can actually get on that and then we would determine the repayment track whether that's option a or option b The state reviews all of that to make sure that everything meets their requirements, the program requirements. They actually have to do a pro forma to make sure that they are in fact eligible for this, that they meet the requirement to get this funding. And then the city would pass a local project resolution or ordinance. And then we apply to the state to get the funding. They wire the funding to the city. The city wires it to the developer. And then they move on to do their costs. Now, there are some tracking obligations. So the developer has to maintain... They have accountability for the affordability aspect of it. The city gets to audit all the developer's records, and then the state backstops all of that to make sure that the affordability element continues forward. So this is the call to action. We are recommending approval of the resolution, but we're happy to answer any questions.

Any questions from council? Rick.

Thank you, Justin. Can you go back a slide? So on item 2.3, repayment track option, you said the city is the one that makes the decision whether it's option A or B, or does the applicant have input in that as well?

So option B, if a project is in the urban renewal area, the developer only has option B. That's the way the resolution is currently written. My understanding is that the city has the option to direct a project through either option A or option B.

Okay.

Thank you. Victoria.

So I don't know. Thank you, Justin. So I don't know who. It might not be for Justin because he might not know the history, but I remember us going through this before, and so are there any historical mural funds that have come to the city thus far? We've just been working towards it. I can answer that.

Oh, okay. Thank you. earlier slide here. So funding wasn't available until 2025. And so the resolution before you sets the city up as a sponsoring jurisdiction. So this resolution needs to be passed before the funding is available to the city, before the city can enter into agreements.

Gotcha. So I know we've just discussed it before, so I was thinking maybe we had the program had been This was the second year or something. So are there any local developers who have been inquiring about these funds that we know of?

I have not heard any inquiries.

Yeah, when we talked about this last year, there was a couple of developers that we spoke with just to kind of gauge the local interest to see is this something that you think you would use. There were a couple. They were noncommittal, of course, at that point. There was, you know, until this ordinance is adopted, there's nothing that they can apply for. But I think there was just a lot of questions about how it would work. The state has... given quite a bit more tools since that time. But I guess to answer your question, we do not have anybody currently that is knocking on the door, so to speak, that has expressed specific interest in using it. It's 100% voluntary for the city, and it's 100% voluntary for a developer. So if you create the tool, they can use it or they don't have to use it. They can still develop their project.

So since these are just pass through funds or what seem like they're pass through funds, if that's the correct term, I'm just wondering how much staff time would be involved for like if there was one developer or three developers, how much would we have to invest of staff time in this sort of a program?

I did look at the annual reports due August 15th every year. If the developer does tap into the money, I had the same question, counselor. It's a four-page report. The first page is just basic, easy numbers. It takes about 10 minutes. There's seven questions that are on the annual report that are fairly straightforward. So the bulk of the staff time is gonna be at the front end, establishing the program, working with the county, working with the state to actually get the intergovernmental agreement set up. After that, I would say it's fairly minimal. Because we're not the ones that are doing the income tracking or other, some of the more time consuming things. It's really just working with the developer to get the data to do that four-page report.

Okay, thank you. And then I think the last question is can a developer go directly to the county or the state for these? So let's say we didn't want to do it, the city didn't want to, can developers go to the state or the county if the county chose to do this?

Yeah, so this program, the program The state gives the money directly to the cities or the county. Josephine County is not a sponsoring jurisdiction at this point, so they don't have an agreement. So this would be specific to developments within city limits for Grants Pass, yeah.

Joel.

What liability, if any, does the city take on in these agreements? Say payments aren't made or the contract is...

the uh... income levels are ignored or or whatever uh... what what liability is the city have so under option b if it developer defaults on the on the payments this the city would have to step in and and make those payments for it repay the loan as far as option a goes so the developer has to you know maintain that affordability component. So the city would actually get in and audit. There's a couple other processes involved. So the title company would make sure that there's rent caps on there, income qualifications. So there's several steps to ensure that they're meeting the requirements of that.

Thank you. Indra.

So I just want to be clear on the flow of the money. So tonight we're just deciding on the resolution to go into the agreement to be able to do it. So does the state holds the money and the city goes to the state for the money? And is there a set amount for the city that stays or it's a first come first serve throughout the state? How does that work?

So it is first come, first serve throughout the state. So it would depend on the pro forma that the developer, so the developer would come in and say, I want the city to apply for this money, here's my pro forma, here's how much I qualify for. So then the city would enter into agreements with the state and the developer to get that funding, and then the funding would get wired to the city, which would then wire the money to the developer.

Okay. And we could do that again and again until they're out of money.

Until they run out of money.

And I saw that one of the acceptable were ADUs even. Is that right? Yeah.

Okay. Only on the ownership side. Not the rental. Because you can use the program for either ownership or rental. But the ADUs are not.

an option under the rental side it's only the if if you for an ownership okay and um does the does the city or council have any say in what kind of housing is developed so if we want more middle income as opposed to low income subsidized housing do we have a say in that or just anyone who came and wanted to do it could do it

So the program offers complete local control. If there's a project that we don't want to enter into an agreement with, we don't have to. We're not obligated to at that point. The idea behind this program was to provide a gap funding source because maybe housing for lower income individuals up to maybe 80% AMI generally has more funding available to it, whereas those folks in the 100% to 120% AMI, those projects generally don't receive a lot of funding to subsidize or offset some of the costs. So that was kind of the design that the state had in mind for this program.

Thank you.

Kathleen.

Thank you, Justin. I was wondering about the loans themselves. Are these reduced rate loans?

So the loan from the state to the city is 0% interest. And then when the city loans out the money to a developer, the city can decide on the interest rate. So we could continue that 0% interest rate to the developer or keep 1% or 2%. Yeah. So it's up to the city.

It would stay low, though?

Yes.

OK. Is there a cap on that?

I don't know.

So what are these loans called? Like what type of loans are these called? Is there a name for them or are they some kind of category?

I didn't see anything. Brad, did you see anything in the, if it was a specific type of loan?

No, I mean, counselor, are you referring to the loan that the state has created or it's a revolving loan fund? That's the overall program, meaning they're trying to get this to operate in perpetuity so that the repayments then can be, there is no new capital that would have to be allocated by the legislature. They would use the repayments to continue the 75 million that they have already allocated. That's the program loan that the state created, but then there's the other option Justin talked about, that is the repayment by the developer for that initial outlay. I don't think they've given that a name. I've not seen a specific that would be set up through an agreement that would be subsequent to this program. If you adopt the shell, if you will, that's what you're doing tonight, then there would be subsequent agreements that would go into some of those details.

Okay. So what is then the benefit for the developer if they have to pay back money?

So the developer can use the money for any of these eligible uses so they could lower their initial costs, whether it's a land write-down or to pay for infrastructure, and then they could calculate what their loan repayment would be. So it would give them more stability and more insurance as they're moving forward in their project. So it offsets that initial cost for them.

And if I could just add on to that, the other piece of that is they get an exemption for 10 years on the property taxes for the improvements, not on the land. There's no, they still have to pay the property tax on the land, but this program is set up for an exemption on the improvements. So that's really kind of the driver here is that if you put in a million dollars of improvements and then Josephine County Assessor you know, they do that calculation that Justin talked about, and then that's the differential that gets, that they don't have to pay for 10 years. So that's, it's kind of a cash flow issue.

Okay, and then just my last question is, was this part of the infill project that we had talked about, up 6th and 7th? No? Okay.

Yeah, it's different.

Thank you.

Victoria.

So even if you could go back to option A and B, So I have a new question now. So under option B, it says there's no tax breaks. But does that mean just on the land, they could still receive those on the improvements? Is that what you were saying, Bradley?

So Bradley was talking about option A. Option A. Yeah, so option B is more of a low or no interest loan to the developer.

But option B is the only one available for the urban renewal district.

Correct.

Okay, so that's a big, okay. So option A would just be everywhere. It would be more residential and you could, okay, thank you, Brad. Thank you, Justin.

I've got a few questions. So if I understand it correctly, the improvements are going to be essentially off the tax rolls for a minimum of 10 years, and it could be a lot longer. Is that right?

No, the term is only 10 years. It's a maximum of 10 years.

Actually, I don't think that's... That's not what I'm reading in my packet, I don't think. For a period that is the longer... of either 10 years or the agency loan term.

So we could apply for longer. We could apply for up to 15 years.

Well, then, okay, so the maximum is not 10 years. It could be longer.

The way the resolution is written, it's 10 years. So we would have to include that in the resolution that we would want it to go longer than 10 years.

Okay, so... That's something that has to be decided actually before we vote on it, or that's on a case-by-case basis depending on what the developer needs as incentive?

So we haven't put that in this resolution. The project loans are on a project-by-project basis. So my understanding is that if we lock in 10 years at this point, we're at 10 years.

Well, why does it say it's 10 years or longer? I'm just reading in the packet. I'm not tracking with what you're saying, because it doesn't seem to be tracking with what's in the packet. It says, a contingency loan from initial sale for a period that is the longer of either 10 years or the agency loan term. So I don't think that tracks with what you were just saying.

Yeah, so, Counselor, I read that as the longer of either 10 years or the agency loan term. So it could be up 10 years would be the maximum. So if the agency loan term would be shorter for some reason, so 10 years would be the longest that they could go.

Okay, so after 10 years, the city would be getting the benefit of an increased tax base potentially? Correct, yep. Okay, thank you. And then you said that, if I heard you correctly, that the... This could, you know, it's anywhere from 60% of median income up to 120. And it could be completely one or the other or anything in between because a lot of projects, there's a percentage that has to be at 60 and a percentage that has to be for some to be at 120. But you're saying that we could potentially reject anything that was

sixty or eighty percent of the income if that's not what we want to incentivize yeah that's a good question so a developer could come in with a project that's that's a mix they could have some subsidized housing whether it's sixty percent eighty percent hundred twenty percent they have market rate housing they actually do mixed use so they have a commercial component with residential component so it would just be a tracking issue so they would have to verify that there their residential units that they're applying for this qualify for the program, and then through the tracking and the auditing, the developer would ensure that he's keeping that affordability component on those specific units. The city would monitor that through their yearly report. And then again, the state would backstop that and assure that those affordability requirements would stay in place.

So the affordability, when you use the word affordability, that doesn't, and I think you already answered this, but I'm just trying to make sure, the affordability doesn't mean that some of it has to be at 60 or 80%. We could counsel, whoever the counsel is at that time, could decide that we're looking to incentivize a project or make eligible a project that would be at 120%. So in other words, kind of the projects that are not covered by the other state and federal pipelines for 60% median income housing, we could basically ask to have developers that want to target the, we'll call it the working wage level of 100 to 120. So if we wanted to rule out the lowest end, we could go for the workforce housing. Is that right?

Yes, that's correct.

Thank you. Any other questions from council? I think we're good, Justin. Thank you.

Thank you.

And now we turn it over to the public. Is that right? Is there anyone from the public that wants to weigh in on this for or against? Step right up and state your name. Thank you.

Rika Brown, Grants Pass. I have a dream. I have a single-layer family home. But it's C-shaped. And I've always thought about building a second story above that space between the ends of it. And... I'm wondering if this could be useful for me. It looks like the option A would be best. And what do you mean by developer? A man who's building homes would probably like to do this for me. So it makes me feel hopeful. Thank you.

Anyone else from the public? Do you have any comments they want to make on this? Step up and state your name, please. And raise the microphone up.

My name is Craig Maitreyi. I've lived here for about 15 years. This is a terrible idea. I just want to be blunt about it. It's, A, unconstitutional, because while it is voluntary for the city and it's voluntary for the developer, as I heard Councilor Riker say or maybe Councilor King say before the meeting, the devil is in the details. It is not voluntary for the taxpayers. We dump our money into state taxes every year, and a lot of us get nothing in return. And some foofy... loan that's not going to actually help working class people get into homes isn't anything. Housing is expensive because we have ridiculous regulations and restrictions on private property. We have absurd statutes that stop people from building. We have outrageous property taxes. If you want to fix the housing issue, get rid of anything unconstitutional, be it a statute, a tax, a regulation, a law that was passed by Congress that blatantly spits in the face of the Constitution. Otherwise, we're going to be raking in more money for more state officials and less and less money for the working people. I pay like $40,000 a year in taxes, and I don't see anything I get for it. What I get is the joy and privilege of paying more taxes and then having the homeless camp right next to my house. Simple solution, stop feeding the homeless. That's not our job. That's not constitutional. Take our money to do that. If some private organization like a church wants to do that, hell yeah, more power to them. If people want to give out loans to their neighbors to help them put extra houses on their property so their brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews and grandmas can live on property, awesome. But right now that's illegal. It's illegal to put more than one home on your property. That seems absurd, doesn't it? It's my property. I should be able to do whatever I want with it. That's all. Stop coming up with more goofy ways to waste our money. Thank you.

Okay, no more outbursts, please. Thank you. Anyone else have anything to say from the audience? Okay. So I'm going to turn it back to council. Any comments or additional? Before any more comments, I just have one question for Brad. So I didn't quite follow when you said, when you talked about ADUs being eligible for this, but you said on the ownership side and on the rental side, ADUs by definition are built by the owner of the property.

i'm just not i don't understand what you meant by your comment yeah um and this ties in also kind of rika's question possibly sorry it may tie into the question that somebody asked as well about improving their own property yeah right right yeah i i mean i can't answer why they wrote the legislation that way but the way it's worded is is um yeah the if you are coming in for an application and you want to you want to you know, get this exemption, that that's only going to be eligible on an ADU unit if, you know, to you as the owner of the property. So it just, I think that's the reason. It's just, you know, they're trying to incentivize on the ownership side more of those single family, because you can also get single family housing types in the ownership, but you can't on the rental. So the rental is only for those middle housing and multi-family housing.

But if an owner builds an ADU, can they rent it or not rent it? Because that's why most owners would build an ADU.

Oh, I see where you're going. Yeah. No, they could still, I think, they could still rent it. I think what the exemption, though, is only going to be for that property owner. Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you.

Any other comments or questions, anything to discuss from the council? Victoria.

So when I was reading through this, I was feeling some of the things that the gentleman who from the audience just spoke was feeling. And I suppose I do have one more question then. What other programs are available just to the general public? that you know of where you could go to a bank? Are there any programs? It seems to me like there must be other ways that people could get these sorts of loans to build the low income housing or middle income housing because they are being built. So what other programs that you can think of that are in existence currently that people are utilizing to do this? It's a pretty open-ended question.

I think it's more from when you're talking about something like HUD low-income housing, you're talking developers or housing authorities that are utilizing the state and or federal dollars, not a general residential person has a lot of options to do something along those lines.

Yes, that is what I'm speaking of. Okay, and then so I think we're in discussion, so I'll just say I... I'M NOT SURE THAT I LIKE THE IDEA OF, YOU SAID IT SO WELL, SIR, THAT THE CITY MIGHT HAVE A SAY, DEVELOPMENTS MIGHT HAVE A SAY, AND THE STATE DEFINITELY HAS A SAY, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO FORCE JUST ONE KIND OF DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE PEOPLE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD A SAY. AND SO THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD THINGS POSSIBLY ABOUT THIS PROGRAM, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY better solutions to achieve what people desire to be achieved here. And if those better things happen, we wouldn't need programs like this probably in the first place because our, the income of the general person would be lifted. So I think that I am tending to vote no on this. I have an open mind, maybe listening to other counselors. But on the whole, I think I would not like to encourage this sort of a program.

Andrew.

I completely agree with the gentleman who spoke. we need to cut regulations and red tape and do that. But I think we also need a two-pronged approach because another way to bring down the cost of housing and the cost of rent for many people is more of a supply. and we have such a short supply, and that's why everything is so expensive too. So I think we need to do both things. And when you go to cities that are building, building, building, and their economies are thriving, unlike ours, they're providing incentives to build, whether it's commercial or residential. And I think we do need to provide some incentives to build here because the more building, the more we have in inventory, the prices will begin to go down. So I don't disagree with any of that. To me, it's a... The state has the money. It's a very little risk, very little from what I can tell for the city. to get involved in it, and it would help builders to build more. I like Councilor Pell's, I'm on board with that, that middle income, the working class, the 120%. Because people often, they come, they're moving here, do you know anywhere we could rent or buy? And there's nothing, there's nothing for them. It's very difficult, so I would be more for the middle income working class housing here and I think providing incentives is a good thing. I'm not necessarily, well at all, a big fan of the state but they have the money. It's going to go somewhere. It's zero interest. I think we might as well try to take advantage of that.

I have a comment that maybe a to some degree addresses what Victoria's concerned. So if we've, over the years, if we listen to virtually any developer, they'll tell us that, or they do tell us, that construction costs are really similar in Grants Pass as they are everywhere else in the state. And the problem is our median income is far lower than places up north. Construction costs are similar, but our median income is way lower. And this, to some degree, levels the playing field a bit for our median income people here. Our median income for household is roughly $59,000. So this program, 60% to 120%. would be roughly $36,000 to $72,000 household income. That falls far below what the median incomes are in other parts of the state where people can actually afford market rate housing. Reality is, all the wishful thinking, reality is our median income people can't afford to buy a house here, and many of them can't afford to rent. This helps to level the playing field a bit. I understand the reluctance to, we'll say, take government aid, so to speak, or take welfare from the state. But our reality is, is that our median income people here, um, don't have any options to live. So we can turn them out on the street and then, you know, fight back for the next 10 or 20 years to try to balance the system. But in the meantime, people need housing here who are making very low median income. So in one form or another, I would, I would support this for, for that reason. Any other comments from council? I have a question. So on the option one or two, or A or B, whatever it is, is that something that has to be decided at this point? Or is that something that's decided later? Or is that something that's decided on a case-by-case basis? In other words, to enroll in the program, do we have to commit tonight to one of the options?

Both of the options are included in the resolution.

So the options then are chosen by a developer at a later time or council at a later time?

Through the project agreement at a later time.

So basically by a developer. kind of deciding which side of it they want to be on or whatever.

And city council would have a vote on that as well. So any project agreement then would have a project resolution or project ordinance to authorize the city to enter into that agreement.

So we'd be voting on people in the future of having the option to discuss with the city council which option they would fall under.

Unless they're in the urban renewal district, then they only get option B. And they only get option B.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Okay, anything from anyone else? Okay. All right, I'm gonna make a motion then to approve the resolution implementing the moderate income revolving loan program authorized in the city of Grants Pass to enter into agreements with the housing Oregon, Oregon Housing and Community Services. Do we have a second? Second from Seth. Any further discussion? Okay, I'm going to vote yes. Rick? Yes. Seth? Yes. Indra? Yes. Joel? Yes. Eric? Yes. Victoria?

I'm a little worried. I'm not sure you were supposed to make the motion because you're running the meeting. I know that that has been an issue. In the past, it's just maybe a point of order to make sure it's not an invalid motion.

We actually resolved that. The city attorney and Erin resolved that. But how do you vote? Well, you can abstain.

I will abstain.

Good decision. Thank you. Kathleen?

Yes.

Great. Motion passes 7-1. Okay, we've got a resolution creating a position of CDBG program coordinator and amending the classification plan. And Aaron's going to present to us.

Good evening, Council President, Council Members, members of the public. There's a resolution in front of you to create a position within this City Grants Pass, and whenever we do that, that does require city council approval. This one specifically is related to our community development block grant coordinator. As you may recall, Ann was here last meeting. She was giving one of her last presentations to you as she is retiring after, I think, about 12 or 13 years. We've had her for quite a while. Been an honor and a privilege to do that. We became a city entitlement grantee back in 2013, which provided an opportunity for us to get basically guaranteed community development grant dollars on an annual basis instead of competing at the state level with everybody. When that occurred, we also picked up and needed a program coordinator who was responsible for administering all of those efforts that you've heard in the reports that Ann has provided to you. Staffing has historically been through a temp agency and has with the temp agency comes with a 35% markup, which they usually utilize, but we had a quality individual that was working for us at the temp agency, and it was a rare find to have her with us for that many years. What we're asking for today is we're asking for the passage of a resolution to create a new job description adding a part-time employee no more than 29 hours. Why do I say no more than 29 hours? Because if you go over 29 hours, you have to pay benefits. So this is going to be a non-benefited position. They do have the ability for PERS, but they do not have the health benefits that would be associated with that. This position is 100% funded by the Community Development Block Grant dollars. So no city money at all is coming from, is going to fund this position. This position is self-funded through the block grant dollars that we receive. Anticipated funding is around $350,000. It's about where we are each year is in the 300 and some thousand dollars. In fiscal year 25, for the program, from an administrative perspective, we spent $59,000. In 26, we spent $57,000. We anticipate with a part-time employee ranging anywhere between $44,000 and $64,000, which is well below our 20% that we can charge for administrative fees. So we don't see this as an additional cost necessarily to what we're paying today. We do believe it's important to bring one in-house, as it was rare that we actually were able to have one through a temp agency. We think it's important because this is a very important program. As you recognize, there's a lot of important services that are funded through this, and to have the reliability of one individual in-house we think is the right thing to do. So we're asking council through this resolution to approve the position so before Ann totally leaves, we can maybe recruit a new individual to replace Ann. is the Community Development Block Grant Coordinator. With that, Council President, I turn it over to you. Any questions? Rick.

Thank you, Aaron. Can you go back to the slide? So you indicated under the new schedule the person in that position would not have benefits other than PERS?

Yes.

And the PERS typically is 6% by the individual and 6% by the city?

No, it's 6% total. 6% total. J.C. is shaking his head.

No, there's going to be a general service rate that's in like the 28-ish percent, and then the city's benefits pays the 6% IEP on behalf of the employee.

I don't understand that at all.

Okay, could you so the purse cost equals about 28 percent or that'll be closer to 33 percent 33 percent And the cost is paid by the city I mean yes, the cost is paid by the city Because there are some programs which we don't have currently where the employee pays their own purse cost, but that's not true in this case No So the no the city pays the purse cost for

Yeah, unless someone close to retirement is paying an additional catch-up, that's the only time that they're going to pay their own PERS.

Which is about the similar percentage markup that we're getting from our temp agency also, so we don't see this as an increase at all in costs associated with what we're paying the temp agency. We see it as a wash from a perspective of what its impact would be on the community development block grant program.

Okay, thank you. Joel.

So, Aaron, you talk about a part-time employee. A part-time employee can be .25, PFT, .5. What is the position guaranteed, .5? Up to 29 hours. 29 hours per week?

Yes.

So that would be about .75 around there, FTE. And then if I understood the previous conversation, the 44 to 64 includes all the costs of benefits to the city as well?

Yes.

Okay.

That's an all-in cost. Like I mentioned, it's extremely comparable to what we're paying right now through the temp agency.

I understand. Yeah, I understand. Okay. Thank you.

Victoria.

Do we have the ability to go through the temp agency again? And would there be, could you repeat how much more it would be for the city to create it? You said it wasn't that much more, but exactly how much?

Yeah, so last year we spent, in fiscal year 25, we spent $59,000. In fiscal year 26, we spent $57,000. We anticipate a range, depending on workload and productivity, $44,000 $64,000 which is right there in that same range as the tip agency The important part is it was relatively unique that Ann was from a temp agency and she stuck with us the whole time That would be relatively rare. It's not something that usually happens so Bringing someone in-house. We believe would be the best approach Okay, Andrea

Yeah, I was a bit surprised we had a temp agency for that many years. Why did we do we have a lot of people on through a temp agency? Why did we do that in the first place? And why usually you can buy them out if you want to and bring them on board? Why did we not ever do that?

Yeah, we actually in the city, we have very few positions that are part time. And so there's been a few occasions where we use temp agencies. We have had collective bargaining agreements in the past where we can use a temp agency and we used to do so in like municipal service workers. the individuals that work to keep these buildings up and running appropriately. Sometimes we utilize there for a while when we only had one or two, we used a temp agency for quite a while. But we do have some clauses also that in the past that have been in the collective bargaining agreement where you can only utilize a temp agency to fill a more of a permanent position for a certain designated amount of time. So we really rarely use, we don't use temp agencies a whole lot. I'm looking at my executive team here and they're all shaking their head. We usually, because we don't have a lot of opportunities for that. Even our summer help, we hire the summer help and we get the college kids and the high school kids in. We don't go through a temp agency. We do the hiring ourselves for those positions. So we rarely use a temp agency.

How many hours a week was she working on this particular project through the temp agency?

I think Bradley might be able to answer that one better than me.

Yeah, she has been averaging between 18 and 22, 23 hours a week.

So why would we bring her on for more hours? Would she be doing other work? Is that?

Well, we wouldn't be bringing her on. We're creating a position. Yeah, we're creating a position that is going to be utilized based on our need. And it could be 14 hours, 18 hours, 22 hours. My comment was, it is gonna be truly a part-time position. We will not go over the 29 hours because then we're talking about a larger cost to the city and we're trying to keep the cost down and it wouldn't be to the city, it'd be to the community development program. However, we need to be mindful of that because you can only use 20% of those funds for those administrative fees. So we have a ceiling anyhow that we have to utilize. And so there's multiple reasons why we wanna keep those hours 29 or under.

Well, I understand that, but if she's not even working 29 now, why wouldn't it just be 20 or 22 what she's working now?

So we're hiring an individual to not, it's not like we're hiring someone at 40 hours a week. And no matter what, they're going to get paid 40 hours a week. This part-time position is part-time. So they're going to do a time sheet and a time card and it's gonna be based on that two hours worked. Maybe it's 10 hours one week. Maybe it's 25 hours one week. They're not gonna get paid an even 29 hours per week. It's based on work hours. Similar to Ann through the temp agency.

And they would be, because it's in here, they would be dedicated just to this grant?

They are dedicated just as a sole source specific position with specific funding.

Thank you.

Rick.

Aaron, I believe Ann works off-site for most of the time. So the new person, would they also work off-site, or would they have a desk in the city, and do we have space available?

There is both. We have workstation for Ann, and she works here at the city also. Yes. It's important to have that connection with the city.

All right. Thank you.

Indra.

Another question. So often we contract out work like that. Is there a reason we couldn't contract this out?

I'm not sure if I have often examples of where we contract work like this out. We contract work out for streets and sidewalks and improvements and sometimes landscaping in our parks. This is an extremely specific skill set and experience. Bradley can maybe talk a little more about it, but it's not something that is widely offered out there. It's a very unique position.

Is it possible to contract that out?

It is possible. That depends on who the temp agencies have on their roles at any given time. As Aaron mentioned, I think the uniqueness here is that Ann was already working for them. I believe that she already, because she had been a public employee before, there was an issue with her PERS that did not really allow her to go back onto a PERS benefit. So there was that. But I think the likelihood of calling up any temp agency and saying, do you have somebody that has a legal background that can work in grants, that can track Excel, that can prepare formal agreements. She had a legal background, and so we were just fortunate to continue to have her. the likelihood of a temp agency being able to provide that type of skill set is very low. Probably more importantly is though that we want to be able to provide to our partner agencies, you know, all the nonprofits that the CDBG program works with, you know, kind of a consistency so that they have a person that they can count on, that year after year after year can work with. We certainly would not and it would be a lot more work for our department if we had to have somebody say, well, I'm just a temp, I'm going to be gone next month, or I'm going to be, you know, there's a big benefit to having that consistency of a person, which, of course, as a part-time employee, there's no guarantee that they're going to stay, but we do have a stronger likelihood of keeping them.

And I guess you're not understanding, contract out like we do visit Grants Pass to do jobs, not necessarily through a temp agency. So when I say contract out, I just mean a contract through the city. Is that a possibility?

So a lot of times with some of the forward-facing opportunities, so we contract out for engineering services. but that's internal engineering services that Bradley or Jason are working directly with the contractor, with our city engineer. It would be difficult to have a forward-facing contract representing the city, and if someone calls, hey, I need questions about community-developed block grant dollars, well, you can contact our CITY CONTRACTOR AND SEE WHERE IT GOES FROM THERE. THAT'S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT. IF WE WERE HANDLING ALL THE CBDG INSIDE NO MATTER WHAT AND WE JUST NEEDED A LITTLE BIT OF THIS OR THAT, THEN MAYBE THAT CONTRACT WOULD BE OKAY. WE ACTUALLY CONSIDERED ALL OPTIONS. WE DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY KIND OF REAL COST SAVINGS WITH ANY OF THEM. WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS FROM A STANDPOINT OF BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN ANY KIND OF COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT, THAT WE WILL HAVE AN INTERNAL BENEFIT OF BETTER SERVICE TO OUR to our community and better service to the individuals that are utilizing the Community Development Block Grant dollars if we have someone in-house.

SO IT SOUNDS REASONABLE TO ME, AARON. I DID HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. WE, AND YOU'RE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE ORGANIZATION THAN I AM, WE HAVE A GRANT COORDINATOR POSITION, BUT THAT POSITION IS VACANT, IS THAT CORRECT?

NO, THAT POSITION IS CLOSED. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT POSITION.

SO WE ABOLISH THAT POSITION?

YES.

OKAY. And then the administration of the grant, that would be things like monitoring the grantees to make sure they're fulfilling the requirements of the federal program. That would be doing the reports back to the federal program so that we still remain eligible. Yes. And probably would also involve preparing presentations to the city council.

Yes.

On what's going on and why and those kind of things.

That's correct.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Let's see. So do we know, because community development block program is nationwide. It's a federal program. Yes. So how do other cities handle this? I mean, I would imagine the temp situation is probably rare, but I don't know. How do other cities handle this?

Bradley might have more familiarity with the internal workings of that, so I refer that question to Brad.

Yeah, in my career, I've never seen it not be a person that's internally. I'm not saying that it's not. I mean, there could be, as Councilor Nicholas pointed out, contracted out position, but it is dominantly within community development or planning where, you know, those responsibilities lie. Thank you.

Do we have any other questions for staff? Seeing none, we're going to turn it over to the public. If anyone has any comments in either direction or anything to do with this subject, step forward now. Seeing none, we'll turn it back to council for discussion or a motion or anything from other councils. Joel.

AARON, I DID HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. I DIDN'T HEAR ANY DISCUSSION ON AMENDING THE CLASSIFICATION PLAN. MAYBE I JUST MISSED IT, BUT WHAT ARE WE AMENDING THERE?

YOU'RE ADDING THE TITLE OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM COORDINATOR TO THE CLASSIFICATION PLAN.

SO WE'RE JUST CREATING A NEW POSITION, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. OKAY. After discussion, I'm willing to make a motion depending on what people discuss.

I did have one more question for Aaron. Okay. So we're adding one more employee, and who would their supervisor be? What position is their supervisor then?

Their supervisor would be the planning manager, which is Justin Ginlesberger. And to be clear, if the... CDBG program is ever eliminated, this position would be eliminated.

So that makes the position of the plan director a little bit more valuable, probably a little bit more weight for an internal equity issue and could potentially make the value of the planning department supervisor go up. And is that likely to drive that person's pay up because they have another position underneath them?

No, because that responsibility has always been there. The oversight, the monitoring of it, tracking has always been there. It's just tracking it through the temp agency or tracking it as a part-time staff person. OK, thank you.

Joel, what were you going to say, Joel? Anything else from discussion from Indra?

Yes, I get that it's not going to cost the city money, but I kind of don't believe that because anytime you grow government, it costs the city money and taxpayers. So I get that you're saying it's only these hours and whatever, but it could be, I mean, they'll probably go to the 29 every, I mean, I just don't trust it, honestly. I think it's much better to contract out to capable parties than to bring people in and grow government because of the inefficiencies. I'm not saying you're not doing a great job, government in general so I just for that reason I mean we're talking about the salary schedules and compensation we've been talking for a year of compression and compassion now we're going to bring someone new into a union pay scale and we can sit here and say it doesn't affect a compression and compaction but they'll be getting the union raises and the COLA raises and all of that, too. So I think it'd be more efficient, more effective, and honestly, they would probably be more productive working at home on their own. So I'm going to be against this.

Kathleen.

Well, I'm reading right here that the position is 100% funded to the CDBG program and is contingent upon the city receiving funds each program year. So it sounds pretty safe to me. So I'm just going to make the motion that I move to create the position of CDBG program coordinator and amend the classification plan.

Do we have a second? Victoria? Second. Comments? Victoria?

Yes, it seemed like I'd have to go back to the screen, but the differential could be it was like $4,000, $6,000 possible a year. I might be wrong on that. But I just know that the CDBG, say that three times fast, coordinator, when she comes to speak to us, she's talking about programs for elderly people to weatherize their homes. So these are real sometimes emergency repairs that need to be made for really vulnerable people. And I just always enjoy her giving us the information about the people who do utilize the funds. And it seems like they do get used. And I appreciated what Bradley said about she was a highly specialized person. and a temp agency is not going to probably have that kind of skill set. So I think that there's minimal risk to the city and the benefit I know is great. And just 15 minutes ago we approved something that where the city might be at risk for paying very big loans. So and this is $4,000 to $6,000, so I'm happy to second, and I am for this and will vote yes. Okay.

Anyone else comment? Okay. I was going to add that for the last six years or so that I've been watching Ann come in and report to us, to me every year I'm kind of blown away and very impressed by her level of competence. I don't ever remember anyone on the council having a question that she couldn't answer. right then and there with specifics. And it was always, frankly, quite refreshing to have someone of just really, really top form anytime she was here. And I don't see us being able to get that from a year-to-year basis from temp agency or even possibly a contract person who might decide to bail. Because I could think of nothing that would be more frustrating to me if I was applying for that program than to have an answer from a person who has the job this year that's grossly different than the answer that I got from a different face the prior year, et cetera, et cetera. So to me, having consistency there I think would make it a lot easier for that program to work well. The only reason that I would have for voting against it is I share Indra's level of suspicion of government anything. But this seems to be pretty straightforward. And the fact that the position would go away if the national funding went away also seems to limit our risk. So I'm going to be voting yes on it. And any other comments? And who made the motion? Kathleen, you made the motion. How do you vote?

Yes.

Victoria, how do you vote?

Yes.

Eric? Yes. Joel? Yes. Indra?

No.

Seth? Yes. Rick? Yes. And I vote yes. So seven to one, measure passes. Okay, so we are at the portion of the meeting that is general public comment. This is an opportunity for the public to address the city council on items not related to a public hearing or council action item on tonight's agenda. The intent is to receive information that is pertinent to matters within our city's jurisdiction. Each speaker will be given three minutes and may address the council as one body at At the conclusion of public comment, council had an opportunity to respond. Public comment will proceed in an effective and courteous manner. Citizens and council members may state their positions without disruption, threatening conduct, violations of law, signs or placards, outburst of applause, campaigning for public office or other disruptive behavior will not be tolerated. Individuals who engage in disruptive conduct will be warned before their microphone is silenced and they are asked to leave the council chambers. If you have a question regarding any government-provided service or current city policy, please contact the city manager's office and attempt to resolve the matter. And we'll go with what we've got as far as the blue cards. So first up is Patrick Rooney. Restate your name, lower the mic, and you've got three minutes. Thank you.

My name is still Patrick Rooney. Thank you. And I guess since I'm going first and there may be some fireworks on the way, I just kind of want to remind everybody that nobody's the enemy here. You guys all work hard. You guys all have a job. You guys are doing things for us. None of you are getting, well, some of you are getting paid, but you kind of council guys are not getting paid for this. And the guys out here, I do, I think we want to be able to hear what their issues are The only thing I would say to them is it's easier to hear them if they just state their opinion. Because as soon as we get into fireworks, it's going to be about the fireworks and it won't be about whatever it is we want to get solved. So that's my only admonition. That's all I got to say right now. Thank you.

Thank you. And Stephen Nelson, are you still here? Stephen, state your name and you have three minutes.

Steven Nelson, and thank you for letting me speak. Okay. I'll try to stay on track with my letter. If a driver is stopped for being a hazard in a work zone, the offender will be cited. If an uninsured driver is stopped, the officer will issue a citation. If a driver goes around a stopped school bus with red lights flashing, the person will be cited. Before I continue reading, I will publicly thank an officer who literally did a U-turn on Redwood Avenue and stopped a motorcyclist doing a wheelie down the avenue. That was a good thing to see. And yet, offensive illegal straight pipe motorcycle riders are not cited. A motorcycle with an illegal straight pipe can cause a noise decibel level over 100. That is a noise level that is enough to cause permanent hearing loss. Also significant studies have been done regarding urban noise and the effects on health. One, permanent hearing loss. Two, brain health issues including mental health changes such as anxiety and depression due to an ongoing release of the cortisol hormones. Three, heart issues due to the same thing, ongoing release of the same hormone. Four, lower birth weight babies due to the biological stress on the woman while pregnant in an urban noise environment. Okay, impossible to get rid of all noise issues in a city environment, but Come on, this is a no-brainer. Stop the illegal straight pipe motorcycles in the city environment. First stop would be a warning to make pipes legal. Second stop would be a citation for the pipes that are not legal. The third stop, the motorcycle would be impounded for the motorcycle is not legal. Please make this happen. They are a hazard to the health of our community. So I plead with you, start citing these writers. Thank you.

Thank you. Someone with one name only is Victor. Is Victor here? Okay. State your name, please, your full name, and you've got three minutes.

Victor Grants Pass. You are not the government. We the people are the government, and we the people have designated you to administrate and operate the government processes. Christian national fascism is a belief system, and one that this board seems to prominently and outwardly profess and force upon those that do not share the same views or belief systems as they do. Please keep in mind as we move forward, God does not exist, and neither it or religion is scientifically supported or verifiable and reliable and repeatable facts or processes. They are actually and merely individual belief systems. If satanic worship or atheism are individual belief systems, then they can also be considered in the eyes of this body as religion or God. My feeling is that you, as agents of the government, give your right to promote any individual belief system, such as God or religion, while acting in your capacity as governmental agent. To promote any such belief system is a discriminatory act and it implies that beliefs not in line with the governmental agents make those beliefs outside the status quo and also make them not acceptable within the beliefs of the gang, club, brotherhood, etc. The government agencies and agents' positions should be one of complete neutrality in such areas. As Counselor King suggested, a period of silence for personal reflection, applying one's own beliefs to those personal thoughts, would be an example of a neutral and acceptable position. Vulgar speech is also free speech. Vulgar is defined as lacking sophistication or good taste, unrefined. Those definitional terms are arbitrary, subjective, and difficult to define, meaning vastly different things to diversely different people. If we already follow comments by members of this board when the bar for vulgarity has been set to a very broad standard of what might be acceptable, When someone goes into public service, they give up some rights, as in the case of public records, or not to be recorded in the course of their duties or not to be subject to redress of grievances. The right to free speech is the driving force behind public discourse and redress of grievances against the public body. It is meant to be uncomfortable by design. If you, those with you, do not want to be in an area where free speech is allowed and in use, and your level of discomfort or is unbearable when you and only you are obligated to remove yourself to an area that is more tolerated by your sensitivities. What you cannot do is inhibit my free speech in order to salve your fragile emotions. Thank you.

Thank you. Dave Blakely, you're up. State your name and you have three minutes.

Hold on here a minute, the eyes aren't as good as they used to be. All right, Dave Blakely, City. You know, I've lived here for 49 years, come up on 54 years of marriage to a fantastic woman. I'm a Vietnam veteran, a father, grandfather, and a great-grandfather. I owned a business in town for 12 years, and I've worn both firefighters and law enforcement badges within the county, totaling a period of 16-year service to the community, and I'm extremely concerned with what I see happening to this community and to this general concomitant body. There seems to be a lot of controversy concerning the issue of prayer before these meetings, so I have a simple solution to this problem. How about just a moment of silence, folks? I don't know. I'm really concerned about defense tactics being used consisting of closed fists and elbows to the head currently being used by city police that are not taught nor condoned by the Oregon Police Academy. The Academy actually teaches officers of these liabilities using said tactics. These tactics come with potential multi-million dollar liabilities, which the city is now involved in due to a recent incident. I'm concerned about the use of such tactics that carry such a large liability, and I would ask council and staff to direct, to council direct staff members to research other defense tactics that carry less liability to the city, the department, to the officers involved in pulling said tactics. I'm also concerned about city council members who refuse to stop speaking and continually override other council and staff members. Victoria, I demand better out of you. If you can't do that and won't do that pertaining to quorum rules and respect, step out of your chair. I'm concerned when I hear Councilman King publicly state that he doesn't care about how many lawsuits Grants Pass gets itself into. Mr. King, I strongly suggest you reconsider your position in that chair. I'm concerned when I hear, I'm all extremely concerned that we have a sitting counselor who has declined multiple opportunities to tell the truth regarding his wife, who is a sitting budget committee member for the city of Grants Pass, regarding her reposting on social media of a list of alleged community agitators who are actually respected community members who have served this community with honor. This same counselor has been actively and aggressively trying to weaponize the local court system to silence a local citizen of his federally protected rights under the First Amendment. You, Mr. Slogel, are an absolute embarrassment. And you, sir, should resign effective immediately. Which brings me to my final point. It was obvious from the last city council meeting as to which ones of you opened your legal packet provided you by the city attorney regarding First Amendment issues and specific case law pertaining to the same. For those of you who failed to open those packets, you now also become a liability. Remember, you answered to us, we are your boss, and this behavior will no longer be tolerated. If you can, we demand better view, effective immediately, and if you cannot do that or won't do that, then simply step down. Enough is enough. Council Members Pell and Nicholas, thank you for your due diligence and respect. Council and staff, I thank you for your time.

Thank you. And Rika Brown, you're up.

One second.

OK. OK. We can fertilize in the garden. OK, you have three minutes. Thank you.

It's the climate. This morning I woke up, looked out the window, and the sky was bright red and orange. Jesus said that this sign of the weather meant that there would be rain. But in recent decades, this weather sign cannot be dependable. It is more likely smoke from wildfires. When I first came here in 1985, we were greeted with a banner on 6th and 7th streets. It's the climate. The same sign greeted me in 1999 when I came home from Arizona. But as two decades of dryness, heat, and growing wildfire passed, the banners became a joke and disappeared. The climate is not so nice anymore. It was not so nice when Grants Pass burned in 1905 or six and the town was rebuilt with bricks. My son-in-law has been working for a man who is building fireproof houses in the county for rich people while other builders use wood. Their customers can't get insured against fire in the counties, but with a fireproof house, they won't need fire coverage. The burning of Grants Pass was the reason that we built a water plant and distribution system. So every house and business would be able to keep their property fire safe with green plants and wet ground. The price of using water was kept as low as possible by separating the overhead, infrastructure, and other expenses that were slow to change from the unit cost, which varies greatly with seasonal irrigation added to household uses. Every city in the country was doing the same thing, selling water cheap or even free to keep their city from burning. Overhead is 99% of the cost of utilities, while their product is 1%. The base rate for water and sewer varies upward with the size of the pipes, so bills can be paid monthly or bimonthly. Water unit costs were a single unit rate for everyone. Sewage was all base rate because sewage cannot be directly measured. It was an exceedingly fair and affordable system. What we have now is unfair and unaffordable for the majority. You can bring the old system back. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up we have Mike Pelfrey. State your name and you have three minutes.

My name is Mike Pelfrey, a city resident. My topic is really in regards to the state of what our city has become. uh... i've done a lot of traveling and what i do is i pay attention to what other communities look like and i can tell you that in my travels none of them none of them look like the city of grants pass this city is disgusting and i can i say that i hate seeing that but it's the damn truth i am sick and tired of pulling out my phone and having to call public safety because homeless people continue to commit vagrancy within our community. They continue to use our parks for their own personal, one, restroom, two, open-air drug den, And then at the same time, you know, it really drives me up the wall because I live next to a river and I love the fact that we have such wonderful weather where you can actually open your doors and windows at night. But, you know, that gets diluted because I hear drug addicts arguing across the river at Tusting Park when they're not supposed to be there. I hope that the city, I would make a recommendation that I think that we should look at the hours that our parks are open. I think if a park has sporting courts, that perhaps 10 o'clock is okay. But parks like Tussing Park need to have an earlier closing time. There's really nothing else to do in Tussing other than to sit there. They can't go to the restroom there because the vagrants have tore up the restroom. That restroom has been closed for months now. So what I would like to kindly request is a refund to the taxpayers of the city of Grants Pass. It's not my fault that that restroom is closed because of vagrancy. It's your fault. When I say your fault, I mean the city in general. The other thing I want to talk about is the fact that if you go down there towards the super enabling center that we've created next to BIMART, what I'm seeing is a lot of homeless people that are not inside this particular containment zone or homeless zone or whatever you want to call it. They're staging and putting so much garbage in and around the closed, the tore down car wash. And so, you know, I went on a walk the other day because I thought, you know, I'm just going to go see what this thing looked like. It was disgusting. You guys got the pictures that I sent. We have not had any type of answer in regards to the parking. That's what rest areas are for. We have rest areas not far out of the city of Grants Pass. These vans and cars and dilapidated vehicles, that's where they need to be parking. If they want to come into Grants Pass and shop, they're welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. I'm just going to make a very brief comment. On this next card, there's only... basically one word, and I'm going to call this person just by one name, and it's not because I have any disrespect or that anyone in the council has any disrespect for this person. It's just that's what this person goes by. So, Fitch, you are up, and you have three minutes. State your name, please.

Fitch Three minutes is my time and you still don't have a clue about it. I can do anything and say anything to you guys and you're going to sit there and listen. You don't know what constitutional compliance is and that's going to bite you in the ass every time. At a lawsuit, you didn't understand about constitutional rights and they came after you. You violated my rights and tried to take me through court and that's going to bite you in the ass. You didn't even read the legal pamphlet. that legal counsel gave you on the 5th, or you would have had a clue, but you didn't. Try to play it by ear like everything else. You're not representing the whole county. You're representing only yourself, only when it applies to you. The religion. Oh, let me get back to the clapping. You guys clap first. We can clap any damn time we want. You follow decorum rules or you break them. We can do the same thing. Decorum rules are for you, not for us. We give you limited power. You understand that? Limited power. You don't duly warn me. Your religion, you're going to allow that crap in here? We got rid of it in Josephine County. You're going to allow Ryan Clark's Salt Shakers Club in here. You're going to allow the Judaism. You're going to allow Buddhism. Everybody will get their three minutes to speak or pray however way they want. You want that? Let's bring it. You're violating people's constitutional rights, and it doesn't apply when you want to play your own games. I can't wait to see Ryan Clark come in here and bitch at you and give you the baby rapist speech after he took all of you guys to court. And who won? You guys did because the businesses covered your ass. And just because you have one group of idiots thinking that they're overpowering everybody else and they get to be listened to, you violate the other group of people that's not being heard. And that's a constitutional violation. And everything that you don't listen to when people speak is a lawsuit. It gets put on the addendum. Just like Eric Schlegel's wife slandering my dad's name like a little child. This guy's gotten you all in a huge lawsuit. And that's the beautiful thing of this, because you will fall under 100% constitutional compliance. Have a great day, ladies.

Thank you. And that concludes public comment tonight. Did we change the order of our business the other day?

No, we're still under our past ordinance. procedures. So now we go. Okay.

So we're going to go to consent agenda and then we'll have any response or any, uh, comments from mayor and council. Do I have a council volunteer to read the consent agenda? Kathleen, please. Thank you.

It's nice and short tonight. A, resolution authorizing the city manager to enter into five-year agreement with West Coast Corporation for electrical on-call maintenance services for the water restoration and water treatment plants. B, there's a motion acknowledging the receipt of the monthly investment report for July 2026. C, motion acknowledging the receipt of the monthly water revenue bonds investment report for July 2026. d motion improving the minutes of the city council meeting of august 5th 2026 e motion acknowledging the minutes from the tourism advisory committee meeting of july 7th 2026 i motion that we accept these in second rick discussion kathleen how do you vote yes

Victoria?

Yes.

Eric? Yes. Joel? Yes. Indra?

Yes.

Seth? Yes. Rick? Yes. I vote yes. Motion passes 8-0. Okay, so now we're going into matters from mayor, council, and staff. And anyone on council, if they wanted to respond to anything that the public had to say, they can do that now. Kathleen?

So I guess I wanted to respond to the people that talked about prayer tonight. It's hard for me to believe that there are many against the prayer as it has been handled up till now because we've been doing it for a year and a half and there have been up to this point no complaints. And I'd like to address the discomfort by design. If it's by design then why can't you tolerate discomfort uh... also i wanted to address because uh... beautiful it's the climate and it makes me want to start a campaign campaign to encourage residents to water their lawns thank you anything else from council victoria yet wanted to uh...

I thank Patrick Rooney for really wise words. When he talked about fireworks, I thought it was a wonderful analogy. And it's really great. I voted, I think, I was probably the person that made the motion to make sure we kept public comment because it is important. But it's also important to remember that if you're How you give a message is probably going to determine how that message is received. But I also understand people want to just give their displeasure with government. And so that's fine. But I'm not quitting. I will be here and I will continue and I would just like to say that it isn't me who is saying that prayer is something that can happen in a public meeting such as this. It is the Constitution of the United States. I also wanted to address the noise. It was really important. Steven Nelson, you've come before and you've talked about this. And I think that some of that was addressed. And so I think there is some movement on that. I know that we have done some work on e-bikes, but I'd just like to make sure that we address the noise of the ‑‑ how Mr. Nelson, he described them as illegal street bikes, so I'm just wondering if we could look to where this is is is it concentrated in one area and uh... it so can we take a look into this issue because he's come here and he has brought it up twice but i also wanted to to address mister nelson and say that we we have been uh... we've been discussing it in council so uh... it would be great if you if you emailed uh... mayor and council and then maybe people could uh... give you back what has happened because it's not, I don't know exactly what it is off the top of my head. But thank you for coming again. And I think, I believe that was it. But I do look forward to the memo on the prayer in the meetings. I hope that that is coming soon so that we can address it quickly and efficiently and, of course, constitutionally. Thank you.

Yes, well, I'll address one specific person, but just in general, I really appreciate the people that get up and speak here. And I really take what you say to heart, whether I agree or not. I listen to what you say, and it means something. And I learn. I learn every time from you, from things you say. So I know it's not easy to come. It's inconvenient. But I really appreciate it. I wish more people would come, honestly, and express their their voice on different issues, what we're doing well, what we're not doing well, because we are here to represent you. That's why we're here. And then I see Mr. Woodard in the back, so I just wanted to say he gets a lot of bad press sometimes, and we got a lot of bad press as we worked our way this last year through the homeless thing, and I think we're in a better place for sure. Yes, there are problems still, but we're working through them. And we're in a much better place. And I know having the unmanaged camps closed is a huge difference, huge in the north end of town for sure. And I know now we have some problems in the south end, but I have confidence that we're addressing those and we'll continue to address those it's just going to take a little time so i just want to appreciate bernie and all that you do he's here almost every day working and thank you for what you do for our community rick

we can i want to thank you for your statement i agree that things seem to be watered night like green lawns but also i still support the it's a climate sign i'd friends it camped at saint joseph organ recently and they had to leave early because the smoke and i hear tonight that uh... phoenix arizona is going to have a major sandstorm so it is the climate love it i'd just like to make a two comments uh...

One is I would, it was just by good fortune, Patrick, that your card was on top and we got to hear your statement first. And I appreciate you leading off public comment with that. The other thing I'd like to mention is that at our last meeting, Sue Hill brought to our attention really an urgent fire hazard in an abutting property. And I'm really glad that she really pushed the issue because city staff did finally get on it, and the situation is far, far, far better than the night that she was here two weeks ago. So I appreciate that the staff did get on it, and I appreciate her for coming to speak. And anything else from council? Okay, I'll turn it over to staff, matters from staff.

Yes, good evening, council. There is two items I just wanted to mention tonight. One is the Tourism Grant Committee has a meeting coming up, and they need a council liaison for that. So what time does that meet, Karen?

It's not set yet, but it's sometime next week.

So this is the one that provides tourism grant dollars to applicants that are trying to promote activities that are 50 miles or further. We're looking for a council liaison volunteer. If you are interested, you can let us know. Looks like we've got a taker.

Well, if it's Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday morning, yes. Otherwise, I couldn't do it.

Okay. Thank you, Counselor. Oh.

I can be a backup.

Karen, did you get that? Rick can be a backup? Okay. Okay. You may not have had an opportunity to review an email that I sent to you with regards to the funding of the public safety station. I got it out right before a council meeting, really, before we met. So it was asking if council has a desire to re-look at those funding options. If you do, since there was a motion, it would probably be best for someone that voted in the affirmative for moving forward with the eight-year loan to just ask for reconsideration. And we'll throw that on the quickest workshop to have further discussion.

OK. Kathleen.

Yeah, I'll make a motion to reconsider that.

Great. Seconded by Seth. And thumbs up for everyone who wants that reconsidered.

Great. Thank you, council. That will go to a future workshop, and we'll have a discussion about scheduling that next week with the agenda setting.

So to clarify, Aaron, it wasn't just necessarily the issue. It was the funding source, I guess, that was brought to the table today, right? Yes. Okay. So that will be included in your presentation? Yes, that's correct. Another option for funding. Thank you. Yep. Okay. Staff?

Colleagues? Good evening, everybody. Just wanted to provide some information and maybe some clarity to things that go on behind the scenes that maybe community and a lot of people just don't know. For example, I did see the email that Mr. Pelfrey was referring to. And when you compare and contrast that email to what has been happening right here for years, you might see it in a different way. But also to let you know that behind the scenes, we had already been working on the problem across the street. For example, my team had already reached out to the owner to get an updated trespass letter for that property. And in fact, I think there was an arrest made that night or a couple nights before. And I've already outreached ODOT, for example, on who can and cannot be on their property. The community response team that are responsible for everything that you have seen happen over the years have already briefed our teams, have already educated and coached and guided the rest of our teammates on the enforcement of the new rules that you all made, and we're working through that together. We are fair, but we are firm, and we still treat people properly. But we are committed to taking care of this community, and we're not accepting bad behavior. We just need a phone call. And for people that may not know what's going on, because I understand how information flows, I'm always available. Give me a call. I'm happy to talk. I'm happy to meet. and discuss and take things on the chin if necessary, but we're out there constantly doing what we can. For example, Councillor mentioned the citizen that talked about her abatement concern. We were working that for probably two months. It takes a long time to go through the abatement process. So if that had have been the first time that we were involved in that, it would have taken us quite some time to actually mediate what was happening, that abatement process. Also, too, just to share what our folks continue to do. About 10 days ago, we were involved in a pretty horrific shooting. That same day was the day we closed the camp down, and we still closed the camp down. It was all hands on deck. Five officers went on administrative leave that day. We're incredibly busy doing lots of things. And if you look at what's happened over the last couple weeks, it's been pretty violent around here over the last couple weeks. But we've been able to manage that, do call-outs, do search warrants, and manage what's happening in this community with limited staffing. This is just me sharing with you all that we are committed 24-7 to this community. And I just wanted to share that because sometimes information can get lost in translation with social media, et cetera. Thank you.

Rob?

Kathleen.

I just wanted to add to that that you reminded me that I've been seeing the CSO workers in the parks picking up trash. I've been seeing that for weeks now, so thank you so much for that also. It's not just Park Watch, it's also the city helping with that.

Rick.

I just want to add to that also some of the photos that Mike Pelfrey presented at the Chamber of Commerce. I spoke with Terry Hopkins of the Chamber, and he said they actually have a person that goes out at 8 o'clock in the morning and around 3 o'clock in the afternoon to check the site. And just that location in itself, being so close to the freeway, has an inherent problem, so that's always been their approach on it. But they also appreciate the help that they get from public safety. Thank you.

Indra.

Yes, for Chief Hensman. So I know the transition's new and moving to Parker's place. Are you seeing any of the worst offenders or criminals just leaving town, or are they just still around hiding?

To be determined, Councillor. What I can tell you is that we are already enforcing the exclusion ordinance in our central business district. In fact, I think we had somebody that violated the 30-day trespass and is on a 90-day. So we're working the ordinances that you provided to us. I discussed displacement was going to happen, and it has happened with the closure of the sites. And it's not perfect, but I don't think it's as bad actually as I expected it to be. But now we've been living through quite a lot for years. Our guys, our folks, our men and women, just to reiterate, they're under great leadership within the organization. In fact, Captain DeKruger was out this morning early riding with the sergeant and kind of just helping out, showing what we all can do to support the mission.

And I'll just add that the north end of town is so much better, like night and day difference. And so I know the people that live up there really appreciate it. I know it moved down a little, but it doesn't seem quite as bad even as it was in the north area.

And I do think you're right, Councillor. It's not as bad at all. it was horrible up here for quite a long time and it's not great down south. Um, but it's, it's no way, uh, comparable to what was happening up here.

Yeah. I just like to add in, uh, the center of the downtown, I don't think that we've felt any ill effects from the displacement issues. In other words, things have definitely not gotten worse. And, uh, which I think is really, um, which is really good. Cause it was, that was, that was definitely a big concern. I also just want to mention with regards to the fire abatement issue, Chief, when you sent an email out to council and you delineated three or four steps that you've been taking since early May when that woman complained, it's my understanding, speaking with her, that no one from the city ever got back to her to say that anything had been happening. So I completely understand her anxiety and her frantic position or demeanor when she was here last because it had been two and a half months and no one from the city told her that anything was happening. So if we wanted to take home a lesson on that particular one, it would be making some attempt at communicating with someone in a situation like that.

I APPRECIATE WHAT HE SAID, COUNSELOR, AND I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT. I THINK THERE WAS COMMUNICATION THAT WAS HAPPENING BACK AND FORTH, BUT WE CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER. I THINK COMMUNICATION SLIPS QUITE OFTEN. IT'S PROBABLY THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN ANY ORGANIZATION, BUT WE'LL ALWAYS TRY TO DO BETTER.

ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNCIL STAFF OR DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN?

I'LL MAKE ONE COMMENT AND THEN MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. IS THAT OKAY? Everybody cut their grass. I make a motion to adjourn.

Do we have a second? From Kathleen, all in favor? Aye. We are adjourned.