Parks & Recreation Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

Yes. Wednesday, January 14, 05:30PM. Call the meeting of the Historic Cultural Advisory Board order. Roll call. Monica Beckett. Chris Sterner. Paul Sterns or William Sterns.

May I a Bruce, staff liaison.

And Harry Klinghawla Klinghawla, no. Klinghawla. Klinghawla is absent. We all stand. Pledge of flag, please. Pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Any public comment?

No public comment.

No public comment. Thank you. Okay. I guess our first order of business is approval of the

Ah, there he is.

Oh, okay. We'll let him take over. Mr. Klein Kalamer has a lot. It's already open. All you have to do is start out with the Right.

So we have called the order? Yes. Alright. You're on approval

a minute.

Oh, we're over there already. Alright. So we're at 26Dash0236. Approval of the 12/10/2025 Historic and Cultural Advisory Board meeting minutes. Were there any comments regarding any changes or corrections? Nope. Seeing none, I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes.

Motion to approve the minutes.

Second. And we have a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The ayes do have it. Thank you. Alright. Next up, we have twenty six dash zero two three three presentation of Sunshine Law Training. Our favorite part of

I the know. I know. I made it shorter. So they said that yesterday, but, like, that was, like, record timing. I said,

I know.

Everybody has already been here for this, so I will be brief high level overview of Sunshine. Obviously, it's going be situational most of the time, so you know where to find me or call me whatever you need or from our office. So like I said, this is just a very high level overview of generally what we're looking for in this room. So Sunshine Law, as we know that all of Florida is in the sunshine if you work for a local government. The reason that advisory boards also fall within that is because you're making decisions that could later on be something that the commission takes into consideration in making their larger decision later on.

So what is the sunshine law? It's essentially access to the right of access to governmental proceedings. So anything that I do, anything that the clerk's office does, if somebody wants to come and get our records, they're able to do that. The same thing of why we put everything on in this room. Who's it subject to? It's subject to everybody. The reason, like I just said, because it's an advisory board that makes a recommendation that potentially could impact the city. That's why the Sunshine Law works here. Public meetings. Most importantly, this is one slide to take out of this.

If you are holding a meeting that could otherwise violate the Sunshine Law, meaning if two or more individuals in this room have an off the cuff conversation about an issue that is foreseeable that you will talk about in this room, you're not violating the Sunshine because it has to be done in the sun, essentially. Nothing can be done in what's it called? It's a shade. There are exceptions for shade meetings, but typically it's if you're meeting with an attorney or if there's some different exception that goes in there. So keep that in mind.

Be cognizant that even if you're on Facebook and I have a couple examples this year of very real advisory boards that actually got criminally punished for talking about issues that they otherwise should not have. A lot of people ask me what's a foreseeable action. It depends. I hate to say that, but it really does depend. If it's about warm mineral springs or something of that sense, you can obviously anticipate that what you're talking about is potentially going to maybe not hit this room, but meet another have some other, I guess you could say, some other issue if you were to be talking about it and then you make a ruling in this room.

So what are the Sunshine Law requirements? Essentially, it has to be an open meeting like we're doing here. There has to be public notice. And then the meeting, thankfully, clerk's office does that for all of you in our advisory boards here. You're not prohibited to meet socially. However, obviously, what you're discussing, keep it anything out of this room that may or may not be discussed. It just essentially the cure, and that's why we always say, have you had any ex parte communications? The cure is that you you say it in here. But if you have that meeting on your own, it's you've already violated. There is no cure.

So that's why I always harp on that more than anything. Other potential meetings is obviously text messages. If you have a personal or a work phone and you're communicating on either one of those, if it has to do with this room, it's still a public record and you could be subject to the sunshine law on it. Any board member who's maybe posting on Facebook, I know that I try and creep sometimes on the Florida Northport dirty laundry and stuff of that nature. Obviously, if you're commenting on those things, just be aware that you potentially could be creating a public record as your role here.

Any okay. So these were like, barely go out of these and I thought they were extremely helpful. So an attorney general opinion is not a court opinion. The attorney general will make opinions for whether it be local governments. They've been a little feisty lately. We have a couple of new attorney generals that are creating opinions. And I don't know if anybody's had the chance to see those, but they're very, very interesting. These were just a couple of attorney general opinions where individuals were getting in trouble, on these types of boards. City commissioners used an electronic newsletter to communicate among themselves, and that was in violation. Members of a city board or commission cannot engage on the city's Facebook page in exchange or discussion of matters that will foreseeably will come before the board.

Board members should discuss public business at publicly noticed meetings rather than a series of letters between the board members, And then a member of the public may not use computers to conduct private discussions among themselves about board business. That creates a public record and you have to retain that information regardless of where it's at. Personal devices, same thing. Like I said, a lot of when I was at the police department prior to being fully with the city, we get a public records request for their WhatsApp. Well, that's on your private phone, and they didn't understand that, well, if you're texting your buddy and you're out on the call and you're talking about that call, we and so that's what I teach them.

And I give them some very real examples of, don't do this because now you're putting your foot in your mouth and you're having to look at all of these correspondents that are allowed to come out to the public. The reason it is a mandatory training is obviously for the penalties. Okay. My computer doesn't like oh, no, it did it. I won't play the video on this, but this was a recent oh, I'm just going to play it for you anyways.

Two members of the Holmes County Community Development Commission are facing second degree misdemeanor charges for allegedly violating Florida's Sunshine Law. Commission member Stephanie Smith Cloud and executive director Joe Rohn are each charged with conspiracy to commit a Sunshine Law violation. State attorney Larry Bassford's office filed the probable cause affidavit the Holmes County Courthouse. It details the findings of state attorney investigation John Pettis into the Sunshine Law complaints. Pettis says Roehm committed a Sunshine Law violation by providing Clab with a list of names of potential officer candidates and told her to contact other board members and discuss the other nominations.

Cloud allegedly contacted other members of the nominating committee to discuss the names and even left a voicemail on other members' phones talking about the list. Both allegedly told Pettis this was common practice.

So just and that was just generally just to show that that was a meeting that was being they believe it was an advisory board, then the state attorney actually prosecuted. And I will say that a state I was at the state attorney's office for eight years. Doing conspiracy to commit a Sunshine Law violation, that's not an easy charge. So obviously a very broad example, but it's just good to keep in mind. Same thing with here. This was the one I used last year. They had a whole meeting. They tried to fire the city manager, the city attorney, and the city clerk. And then he actually ended up getting a misdemeanor, and he served forty five days in jail. Public records.

This is really just about retention. Everything that you do that potentially is in transaction of business on this board is creating a public record, and then there's certain rules that go into it. Ask yourself these questions if you're creating a public record or if you think you are. Am I receiving this, material because of the position I have with the city? Is this material made or received in connection, with a transaction of official business to the city? And is it used to perpetuate, communicate, formalize knowledge of what you're doing in this room? I know I harp on this, but it could be really anything. A public record can be an email, a text message, a video, an audio. It really can be anything. Public records requests, obviously, the clerk's office does an excellent job.

We get so many public records requests a day. The public records act is construed in favor of disclosure. So sure, if you get all of my emails and I accidentally have my address in there, I was a state attorney, you're not gonna get that information, but you're gonna get everything else on me. There's gonna be certain things that you redact, but for the most part, you're gonna receive those documents. This clerk is the custodian of the public records, and then any request that you may get, and it could just be off the cuff.

If somebody says, hey, can I get a copy of this report? Most likely, they'll do it to the staff liaison. However, if they do ask you, just make sure you forward that to the clerk because you could get in trouble if somebody really wants to push it. One thing I have found out in being at this job for three and onetwo years now is that it's within a citizen's right to make those requests and it be done in a timely manner. And they are full within their right to look at potentially doing a lawsuit against the city if these things aren't done.

And you see it all the time. So as a board member, you do have to forward all of those requests to the clerk's office or it could get you sued. Same thing here. Inability to comply with the request is not an excuse. I remember the clerk telling me this twice because I was like, another attorney did that. You got to wait till she gets back to pull those records. And she's like, that's not what the law says. And she's absolutely right. It says being on vacation or, like, inability to comply with the public records request is actually not, what you're allowed to do. And then the same thing, the public records request not complying to it can be expensive.

Not that you all should be worried about that, but if for some reason it comes up, you're just going to want a full disclosure, send it to the clerk's office or send it to the staff liaison and go from there. Ethics, very self explanatory. I don't want to insult anybody's intelligence. It's just a high level reminder. The ethics statute is up at the top.

Obviously, if you ask anybody in this room, they're not in the best position to objectively answer your question as far as if you think that you have an ethical obligation to disclose something, if you're voting on something that you maybe have a family member involved in, a wife involved in, a husband involved in. So you're going to want to utilize these three, and I will send you this updated solicitation or acceptance of gifts. This could include the way the law reads is de minimis. So I know I've had somebody buy me coffee before, I actually had to go give them cash and pay them back and disclose it because I did not know. That was something that if they are a client of mine, it could potentially look like there's something that I am getting a benefit to make a certain decision.

So same thing in this room, especially on hot topics. Unauthorized compensation sorry and misuse of a public position, any disproportionate benefit, whether that be for you or your family. And I have the list of everybody coming up in a few slides. The same thing applies if you are disclosing information that would otherwise be confidential in this room. Most likely, it won't because we're discussing it out loud, hence the whole sunshine law.

But be cognizant of that when you're doing research or something if you find out something else. Prohibitive relationships, you can't, purchase rent or sell any goods. This applies to your spouse and your child, and then any conflicting employment or contractual relationship. I say all of this to say the cure is to disclose this, to not vote. And that's really the reason for all of this is that there is a cure on PZAP, the Planning and Zoning Advisory Board in the morning. The first question I ask is, has there been any ex parte communication? Did you go to the site? Did you do your own research? Did you talk to somebody that you are allowed to, but I need to know what information you have so that the public knows what information that you are voting on? And we don't ask that in here.

This is just the Florida State statute that you may not abstain for voting unless a conflict of interest exists or you don't feel that you could be fair and impartial. Same thing here, you're prohibited from voting if you have any financial interest in what's happening in this room or if that applies also to your relative or business associate. Again, the cure, I say all this to say, will get you the paperwork, will help you fill it out, whatever that looks like for you, and then you just won't vote that day relative. Penalties, why we teach it is that, like you saw previously, there are some very real penalties. And then lastly, meeting procedures.

You guys are great on this and ladies because you do it every time, but quorum means the majority of the members. If you don't have a quorum here, the clerk will guide you on that. The motion should be clear, a statement about a decision. It requires a second. Discussion opens up beginning with the person who made the motion, if there is discussion. And then the board will debate the motion. These are just procedural issues. Stay on topic, of course. Time limits can be modified if you have a twothree vote. And then each board member speaks once per motion unless nobody's waiting to speak.

I put this in here to refer back the clerk and or I will help you navigate alternate members if we run into an issue of participating or voting. It's in our city code. And if somebody's absent, we'll kind of follow these procedures to get you guys in a good position. And then if you're looking for information that may not be a public record, I can't think of any good examples for this board, but watch it come out now because I said it. What you're going to do is you're going to unanimously vote.

You're going to tell the staff liaison, and then whether it be my office, the clerk's office, the city manager's office, we'll get you that report. I Like I said, in this room, I can't exactly think what would not be a public record, but you never know. So if you're looking for something, just let us know. And with that said, any questions? If not, I will see you next year or if you're on more boards. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. If can give anything, just give me a call, of course.

All right. Then we'll move on to our next agenda item, 20 six-two 48 under new business, election of chair and vice chair. So at this point, I will entertain motions from the floor for nominees for chair and then for vice chair.

I nominate can you reserve two times in a row? Or do you have to change every year to roll on that?

I think it's two years, I think. Let me check. I think two terms.

I nominate the area if that's the case. Chair.

Any other nominations?

I'm sorry. Say that again, please.

Are there any other nominations for chair?

Okay.

Seeing none. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

All right. I'm already outvoted if I say no. Right. I will now entertain motion for vice chair.

I nominate Chris.

We have a nomination for Chris. Any other nominations on the floor? I nominate I nominate Bill. Alright. And now we have two nominations on the floor. Anybody else?

I'm I'm gonna have to decline.

Alright. I'm sorry. What did you say?

I was gonna decline.

Alright. Then this takes us back to having one nomination on the floor. All those in favor of Chris as vice chair, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? The ayes have it. And we have our chair and vice chair for

this year. Somebody's going to have to step up next year, Okay? Because both of us have been two. So that would be I think it's a no no. Not sure. I think it is.

Let's see what happens next year. Maybe we'll get some more board members.

Yeah. We've got a long ways to go for that still. Wait till next year. So plenty of time.

Thank you, guys.

So onwards with new business twenty five-two thousand eight forty nine. Discussion and possible action regarding recommending revisions of the ULDC Code of the City Of Northport to the City Commission, Article II, Section 6.21-sixty 2.1.

My question is, does everyone have a copy of 6.2 with the revisions?

It's not small. That's why. It's not short.

I know that. You've to hear my phone. I know.

I wrote it. Yes, it's quite a few pages. I guess not everybody has a copy of it, do they?

Have it on my phone.

Yeah, no. Was not sure if that was going to be provided to us at the meeting.

Well It's big, So Well, no.

It's it's only 11 pages.

Oh, just the section. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. No. That's the only part of the ULDC.

Mean, copy of it?

Yeah. Section 6.21 to one and to six point two point one o. That's I

don't know.

That just seems worse. Yes.

Well, actually, it goes up to 15. We won't you don't necessarily have to go that far because there is a lot of change.

Do you want me to get over there?

Yeah, if would. If you could.

Now, I only made oh, no, I did make double side. So

I'm going to make a copy of this.

You better make a copy for me, too, because I don't think that looks like anything I have.

And the other one we have is the city code. That's probably the one you have because the city code is

and it

did did everybody I guess nobody got no. I guess not. I thought they were gonna send copies to everybody because I have communications with city clerk. I

know. I seem to have a copy. I hope it is the up to date correct

copy of

the ULDC. No.

Not even close, Harry. You'll see when he comes back. Wait a minute. Shut the screen, Karen. We were supposed to something's wrong here

Okay. You're saying there are issues with the agenda?

No. I believe the agenda is messed up because we were supposed to be discussing the Part II Code of Ordinances Chapter IV Article 10, which is Historic and Cultural Advisory Board. Power of Duties. And that's

right here.

Yeah. Right. We were supposed to be discussing that. But and I think that's what she sent me. But yeah. Here. I've got a email from Rita. No. Heather. Mhmm.

Okay. With red line information on what we're supposed to talk about for the city code, which is section four thousand one ninety one through well, that's a section. It's not a particular section. I don't know. I'm confused.

She sent out two notices and then a revision. One of them was a revision to our meeting today.

But well, I'm confused about what

I have is based upon what was posted on the city website off of the agenda there. And for that one, for twenty five dash two eight four nine, it had the entire two seventy three page ULDC code attached to it.

Of it, only 11 pages apply to

Right. Public Yes.

And that's what he's copied.

Yeah.

And that's the part that I volunteered to mark up, which I did. But in addition to that, talking with Heather, we were supposed to be discussing these roles and responsibilities. Because there are pieces in there that would be germane to what we do. Oh, wow. Let's see.

It's pretty close. And I had had email discussions or exchanges with Rita over the holidays. Okay. Seems And to making it work well. We don't need this one on.

There's no need here. And from discussions with her, I had thrown together the attached draft policy that's part of 26 dash zero two four three where I included Well, I had in here powers and duties a little bit. That's been maybe moved over. But I had basically worked off of what is in chapter or article four, which is powers and duties. And

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay.

Alright. So Great. Alright. So we now have we should have

we're

So to we're we're

a sense

get

agenda item titled for

'20 a five-two 849, which is Archaeological and Historical Preservation Regulations. So mister Schirner, is this the same as what you had worked on?

This this isn't the one I worked on.

This is the one

I worked on. Okay. Which I was asking they'll ask me.

See now that we have this, although this was different than what was in the attachment, so this is the first time that we are having an opportunity to take a look at this. The

attachment that we got.

The attachment that was on the agenda for this.

Yeah. I thought I copied that. See, this is what I got. No. That's not me. Oh,

saw this 33 page document. Now I got

This one. It's the one they sent.

Yeah. No. That's that's that's actually part of I thought I was thinking for that as part of twenty six dash zero two four three.

I'm confused. And this is unusual because of my communications with Heather. She was confused.

The hyperlink is on the agenda. So when you had it electronically, I'm assuming you hit the attached link, hyperlink, then it brings you to the

actual two seventy three page document, which I was like

Well, that's the whole ULDC. Right.

Right. And

then if you hit your search you download it and you hit your search, go to historical, it'll bring you closer to where you want to be.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting around page two sixty something.

I wanna make sure it's

the right one. Maybe that's why I didn't copy it.

Yeah. It starts six two, page two,

Does 60 it mirror it, the article numbers?

Yes. 06/21, generally.

Because the old one had less numbers. 06/21. Which red?

Yeah.

All right. So then we have before you this now, I guess my question is, if you're saying this document you just handed us was in the ULDC, correct?

This is directly taken directly from the ULDC and everything in red

is my addition or change. And what they sent to us does not include anything in

the red.

So everything in What red

they sent to you is anything that's in dark is in black. That was in the LVC. Anything that's in red, I modified. All

right. So I'm going to need some clarification here.

So

your your job is to draft an ordinance in the manner that you could present to the commission. So even though you put your article numbers and everything in here, it's not up to us here to give those article numbers in.

So

we have to present whatever you added in here separate, not in the article form. So so that's what you're supposed to create. Take the it sounds like everything in red, you you would like say over here, we put in red, you would like to make modifications to the following Correct. Here. You would like to add this and the following here.

Correct.

So you can only make the suggestions, then it's up to I'm not sure which board actually reviews those comments. If it's whoever's in the ULDC or building department reviews it and the commissioners and all that review it to what to accept because it has to actually go through legal to make sure it's written in the right format. Right.

Yeah. No, that's absolutely right. Putting in where it falls into the code, like section Cs, things of that nature. But I guess going back to what my question is, this document is what you handed us. So this is ULDC, but with mister Sterner's

In red.

Changes, not the actual ULDC.

Everything in black is based is on the ULDC.

I just wanted to be clear. The document I have in my hand is ULDC with the recommended changes, not the actual ULDC.

With the changes. So I don't have the physical one I have to go. So if you want me to pull the separate

No, no, no. No. Just

it's not set in stone. Okay.

Yeah. Forwarded this to the city clerk's office. And we're not supposed to do anything with ULDC according to my email from Heather, okay? Not saying Why? Okay. Well, you can share. But the city code, which you also sent a copy of marked up to her wherever it got

So your your email with Heather, that you are you are you are in it. Following discussion from mister Sterner, I have drafted an ordinance in the manner that we would like to present the commission. Should be changed to, change the board powers and duties. I have attached this email. The board should modify sections two adaptation by striking through language they want removed and underlying language that they wanted.

Everything else in the ordinance is a requirement and was written as such. This covers no other sections of ULDC code or policy and is relevant to the board's agenda item regarding the roles and responsibilities.

Right. Okay. What she said this right here is what she said. Yes, I think you and I have the same sheet. Does not address the ULDC. So what I'm saying here is what the agenda says is incorrect. We are supposed to be addressing the city code, which is this thing. If you look at section let me try again.

So discussion

This is the draft that she sent me of the city code.

Yeah.

Okay. You have that one.

Yeah.

Okay. This is what we're supposed to be working on, not the ULDC. And if you read the original agenda for the meeting, the original agenda said where did I do?

Discussion of possible actions regarding recommendations, revisions of ULDC code of the city of North

That's the latest one.

Oh, that's the

Okay. I have the original one, which said discussion possible action regarding previous agenda. What's that? The original agenda. A previous agenda. GREGORY The original agenda. Agenda. GREGORY For today? GREGORY Yes, for today. This one has been modified. And I don't know how that happened. But the original one said, discussion, policy, possible action regarding recommended city commission policy for designated sites. Well, this is what we're supposed to be working.

And that is twenty six dash zero two point four three. This one on current agenda.

Yes. Well, yeah. 26 yeah, Okay.

The current one says

ULDC.

Yeah. And if you flip it over

Yeah. Well, that's next. But we never addressed the ULDC. That's what I'm confused about. How did this I come

think you have more than one item. So first is the Yes. Then we'll move on to drafting discussion possible action regarding the draft of 2025 annual report to the city commission. Okay. And '26 dash zero two four three, discussion of possible action regarding recommended city commission policy for designating historic sites within the city of Northport. So you have three items. Right.

Got that. All right. Okay. My commentary then on this, the biggie, the 11 pages, is I understand why we're not supposed to put numbers on here. But how do you correlate it to the existing ULDC if I don't put numbers on here?

Well, you just They're not going

to rewrite the whole ULDC. They're going to take that section 6.2 and they're going to go from there.

I can totally understand, but we're not legal. They need to be the ones reviewing what our recommendations are and then they would the ones placing them they what's accepted or not.

Yeah. Okay.

So the only thing I my suggestion is taking it out. I don't know if you can direct I assume you could say, regarding this section, then you could probably say, here's what we feel might be added. But I'm not sure how that will flow. So I think it's really about the meat and potatoes.

Well, and most of this in the LLPC, what, little red that's in the front first

I saw

several pages. Kind of almost irrelevant because what we need to go to is bisection 6.2.6a criteria for listing local registry. And then it goes on from there because that's where all the blood is.

So I would say use the title and not the actual numbers. So if you want to talk about criteria for listing local registration, just write that and

make sure right.

Do have Section 6.2.6.8 on it. Right. Right.

That makes sense? That makes sense, I guess.

I don't I mean, that seems like the way they want they want to be the ones to address the actual numbering.

And then, yeah, as was stated earlier, typically how, the city, wants changes in language. It's crossed out for what's being removed and underlined for what's being added, not necessarily color schemes. So that is probably something too that we'll need to take a look at. But that's that's formatting. That is something that we can address.

Yep. Once we've actually gone through the document. So, having said that, so we now have do have before us the sections of the ULDC as part of 25 dash two eight four nine, with Mr. Furner's additions at its recommendations. And so I think at this point, it probably behooves us to have some progress that we actually look at these and see if this is something that this board would recommend.

Because if there's going to be changes, then there's no sense in reformulating all of this if we're going be looking at doing things

differently. Let me comment on the fact that cross outs and I crossed out when I went out and just put in most of this is additional stuff. It's not where I crossed anything out. It's all additional. I did cross out. If you go back, you'll see some section numbers I crossed out, which obviously don't really matter anymore. But all this other stuff

is addition. Right. So, yeah. So again, let's kind of maybe focus on the content not so much on the formatting right now. Sounds good to me. Okay.

Okay. And we're on this page.

We are on this document.

Yes. Yes. So

I I think before we get started down this road, maybe my brain is just foggy. But I do recall conversations this board has had regarding a local register and whether or not we actually wanted to have a local register, or do we just want to recognize historic sites

that's I that's ir

good before diving into this. And quite honestly, this also probably sounds like something that would need to go before the city commission because we already have in there our powers of duties. We probably would need to, I would say, to have this in the proper order that we would probably need to do powers and duties and have that set before the city commission before we make any changes.

We've already got it. This is our powers and duties, bottom line. Alright.

So so

one of our so then one of powers of duty is identifying and recommend properties and land reps potentially eligible for listing on the local register, which this board has said it did not want to maintain a local register.

Who said that?

Well, this group did. They didn't want to have the responsibility of reviewing properties on a local register. It was more about recognizing historic properties, not designating properties on a local register. Well, that then would have to be reviewed by this board in terms of any changes to work done on any property? All are fine doing with it. That's fine with me, by

the I don't recall. Eric, can you take five minutes to read this? Because I think Chris was in the email and you were not.

Yeah. Okay.

So why don't you go ahead and Yeah. Okay.

That's the ordinance she drafted up.

Okay.

This goes on our second Oh, that's the

first time seeing that.

What? That part? You need a copy of that one too? Yeah. I I made a copy. I'll run and grab you a copy of that one.

Alright. Oh, you got a copy? I worked. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I'll be

right Have

either of you seen

this I think this is

way above my pay grade.

I Well, it's getting to be above my pay grade. I keep telling my wife, I should have got a whole lot of degrees. That's all I can think of. Then I

Going back to the local register discussion. I don't recall, but it's not saying you didn't wanna to have a local register. The UDC here, it only talks about the national register. Meaning, I think it has to be on the national register to be Right.

Or to get the attendable local register, Okay? There are that will not ever see the light of day on a national list

But

they're important to the founding of the city, the development of the city, etcetera. And that needs a local register. Otherwise, somebody comes into the city and it's beneficial to Better Business Bureau. Here, we have these historical sites you can go see. If we don't have a local register, there's no history.

So

that's my take on the thought.

I completely agree with that. I don't recall any discussion.

Well, I

just Maybe it was in December when I

Well, no. I just recall that as we started getting into the weeds of what it means of having a property on a local register and meaning that if somebody has a property on the local register and they wanna do work on their property, that means then that's going to have to be regulated.

Right.

And then we'll get this board doing that regulating. Well,

you're going to get to that in the ULDC. There is a regulation for that sort of thing, for two weeks' fines. Finding Native American bones, that's a big legal thing right there.

Yeah. Mean, that's more state than us. Well, except

that if we find it and they notify us and they don't do anything but we do, that could get the city in a lot of trouble. So they're going to have to notify us to keep us honest and keep themselves honest, Right? I did study a little long.

I think doesn't look any different than what we currently have.

It's very no, it's not very much different than what we have.

Yeah. I think there's nothing in there. Oh,

yeah. Yeah. Was looking at that now. Sure.

So I'm not quite sure what this is for.

Well, that's her take on it.

What you've done is, you know, with all this, it just Thank you. Sent off to the city to see if they can incorporate it into the overseas.

Anyway, this is the second item. Yeah. So let's

go back to 2025Dash2849.

And apparently, if this board is wants to just go ahead and tell on through here and see what their recommendations are that we are going to make on this language. Why don't you, Mr. Turner, seeing that this is your work, why don't you go ahead and lead us through this discussion?

As I said, the first part of this, I just added in things that were going to be required regardless, like the local register. And where it's red on that first sheet, local register is out there. ULD's administrator shall keep us informed of any additions that have to do with historic and cultural things. So the first page is pretty self explanatory. What's going to have to happen if they want to do this? Yes.

But you're going to put as your notes recommendations not in these locations, but the wording should be

Okay. Right. Right.

Go ahead. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, yes. I'm going take the numbers out, Okay? And just have general generally. And then determination. Then yeah. The numbers are leading.

Okay. Now, the

sub numbers should be there regardless.

Make reference to your first area and the general location. Certain terminology appears to be missing the following. And let them say yay or nay too.

Okay. That's

just Yeah. Well, I would just make it even simpler. So generally, where you got c, just cut off c and leave the language there. And they can take a look at it and see if that's appropriate.

Oh, yeah. I'll take off now I have to take off everything, the numbers, all the letters, everything. It's going to be confusing for them. But Well, again the political thing Yeah.

Well, the old language gets crossed out. I'm talking

about it.

And then the new language is supposed

to be underlined.

This first sheet, there is no old language being crossed out.

Okay. No. But then this new language is then will be underlined. And stay in black and underlined. That's, I think, what they're asking for. Okay. I

have a problem with this underlying thing. I think red's greatest the thing in the world because that tells you what we want.

Yeah. I think in legalese, they want it underlined. Okay.

I think legally, you just edited a legal document that that's why you can't have it in the format because you No,

no, no. No, I'm not discussing that part. Mean, the color of the print indicating this is a change. But you can write it.

Wouldn't have to see or anything because like this is an edited contract that's not legal, right? So that's what the we don't want you

to get Right. In No, I would take all those Yeah.

Doesn't And typical with a legal document with recommended changes, stuff you remove, you cross out, stuff you want to recommend adding, you underline.

So that way you're yeah.

Actually, did send her a copy of the draft on it. Okay. Never got through to us. Okay. So going along in page two, again, I'm only adding things, have not taken anything out. Actually, you talk about a cross out well, that's an addition after determines on 06/23. Okay. Page three, there were no changes that I could see necessary.

Actually, I'd like

to jump back

to page 2C. We've added in an effort review by the Historic and Cultural Advisory Board. So are we going to be then determination of archaeological significance for properties?

You can put it there. It's just a matter of accepting

Yeah, if they accept it. They don't accept it. Right. Okay. A lot of this is based on some of those researches we did with other cities and stuff.

We have to understand that Northport is new at this historical game, Okay? And hopefully, they get somebody with a little historical background in the legal department and most of them have some either history or political science, I know hopefully, understand Okay, that we have to be involved in the archaeological because it is history, whether they like it or not. So yeah, we need to be apprised of that. Okay. So three, I have no comment on.

Four, again, I just added in the advising us of structures and that sort of thing, whether they're going to develop it or whether they're going to tear it down or whatever they're going to do with it. Okay? It's just advising us that they're going to do it. If we have a meeting and we look at this and we know anything about this property, we can make recommendations to the city on that. But that just puts it in writing on they should let us know.

Otherwise, if they don't let us know this stuff, why are we here? That's my point. And I've been through this. This is about the fourth time I've been through So again, I'm just adding information in that makes us a viable part of the organization. Page five, this is where it starts to get scary.

6.2, again, I took out letters that said buildings, structures identified. I added in four properties. And I crossed out ore. So I am crossing out things where they need to come out. Let's see.

All right. New Section 6.2.8, criteria for listing. Again, I took all of this out of other cities, ULDC or other counties ULDC, and I'm kind of on board with the way they're doing it. So I added in the criteria part. This goes back to the city commission has the authority to designate upon our recommendation buildings, structures, etcetera, etcetera, architecture, settings, whatever.

Next section, all these subsections. And it just explains things that are going to be identified, what they're associated with, whether they're social, political, economic, religious, prehistoric, architectural, or associated with the lives of persons significant in the history of city. Distinctive characteristics of something here or it would be of artistic value. And what I can envision there is up at War Mineral Springs, There's a piece of artwork there that is over 50 years old and could be designated as historical Of course, War Mill Springs already got historic designation to the county and nationally. But there may be other things.

Distinctive category, okay. Yielded or likely to yield information in history or prehistory. These are all pretty common sense things listed individually in the National Risk Register of Historic Places. Characterized as geographically definable area, this goes to an area of the city that was, say, the original parts, the original houses in the city of Northport, those general development homes, characterized as established geographically definable neighborhood. Again, that's part of that.

There's no minimum or maximum number of criteria. In other words, any of these criteria or a combination of criteria could designate historic site. Okay, procedures. This is where it gets real hairy because I had to do a little shifting around here. Nominating a property owner could nominate.

One of us could say, we think this is like me, always harping on the turpentine dock and the rail station. Who can designate it? Who can nominate a site as being historically significant for the city? Again, everything goes through the city commission eventually. So this is just a recommendation part, a nominating part.

Process of reviewing officially accepted nomination, it'll go if somebody nominates it, there's got to be paperwork with this, too. And I'm going to leave that up to legalese because I'm not going to sit here and make up a nomination form. Legalese are going to have to figure that one out. So it's a whole process of a review to designate this as a historic site. Then we have public hearings on it.

Again, all of this stuff comes from existing cities and existing counties. Whatever they're doing, I'm saying that Northport should do too. We want to be a big city, which we are getting to be a big city. Okay, then approval. Nomination for it comes before us.

Then it is added to the will be added to the local register and sent to the city commission. Then the effect of the approval on that adoption written notification to whoever dominated it. And a lot of this stuff, we're going to have to take responsibility for. I don't know how much of it. I have to let the city figure that out.

Okay. That takes care of the nomination. I would imagine nomination listing and the placement on a local register and a review. Then we get to what happens if we want to remove something from a local register. Somebody says, this building is not adequate to stand up anymore.

It has to be destroyed. Well, it needs to be reviewed before that happens, which part of the Sarasota County Historic Preservation Board, which I was on, we did that too. We looked at it and said, is it can it be refurbished? Can it be historically made it historically viable again? Or do we remove it from the register because it's going to be torn down?

Again, we've got to work with the owner of the property. If they're going to tear that down, somebody has to look at it and say, yes, it's definitely had its time to tear it down. Then there's a certificate of appropriateness for historical resources. Again, a certificate would be issued by the city to say this is historic property certified. A couple of reasons for doing that.

Some of it could be for tax purposes where they get a write off because they have historic property. I know the county does it. I'm not sure the city's ready for that yet. But we have to look to the future. We can't just say, oh, this is what we're going to do today. No. We have to set things up for the future.

We're coming up to 06:30. So let's go finish this part up.

Yeah. Finish this red Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to go through this. Yeah. And this is the erect in addition to a building that has to have a permit or a certificate to do that or a view to do that, demolishing the building, obviously, relocating the building, which I don't know how they would do that. But that should be addressed also. Again, I'm talking about the future. I'm not talking about today. Okay, exceptions.

Ordinary maintenance. Obviously, you're going to get a building permit if you're going to modify some building. Unsafe buildings, that would be identified, sure, by the city saying, you've got to destroy this property. If it's on the historic list or the historic register, that has to be addressed. Emergency conditions, a structure that's dangerous to life, that sort of thing, that needs to be addressed.

So up to the historic building or structure alteration, demolition, rehabilitation, or repair, A lot of that's already in the UDLC, ULDC. And the only thing I added there was things that alluded to, the historical culture of the body report. And that takes us up to Northport City Historic Market, Market Program, which I think we could cover next time. That one shouldn't be too bad because I think that would write out of Sarasota County's historic marker procedure. And there's very little after that.

Okay. I think that's enough right now since we're

getting overtime. Well, I mean,

unless you want to go that far.

You choose an hour. Fuck. Forty? Hold on. Let's

see. We have Let

me see. Oh, She's got it longer. Go for it, Chris.

Okay. As I said

Sorry, Chris.

The historic building structure alteration, demolition, rehabilitation repair, that's already in the EOBC. So I made some changes in there, but all they are is adding us into the mix. All right. North Port City Historical Marker Program. As I said, I copied this essentially out of Sarasota County's marker program.

So you can look through that. If you have any problems with it, it's essentially the same as it's all vote change to apply to the city as opposed to county. And the only thing I did after that, again, I added oh, I changed four mineral springs, little soft springs, fortuitous fines, and unmarked human burials. At the bottom of that, because the city didn't address this, I think it's extremely critical. I hope they buy into this.

The case of the third part under the fortuitous binds and unmarked human burials is a case suspected Native American skeletal remains are found in addition to the aforementioned entities. The following parties are to be notified. That should say must be notified. Because if you don't notify, the federal government will come down on us like a ton of bricks. Federal and tribal officials, Native American Heritage Commission, and state archaeologists and again, this is out of other cities and counties, ULDC.

Essentially, that's it. So I can take all of these numbers. Now, would I have to if I take out the section and just use the title, the sub things there like the ABCs, why would I have to take that? Because, I mean, I know they can change it to one, two, three if they want.

Well, that's because it's already a legal contract.

Okay. Say no more. I'll take them out. I don't care.

As long as you write draft on it. I think they have to be the ones to Yeah.

Okay. What I would do before the next meeting is I'll take all that garbage out. And now the Article II for the ULDC, that's where we proposed to have the change. Does that need to come off?

Wait. Say that again.

Up here. Put the article two.

Well, in reference to the I mean, you could put article two in reference to this location. You'd say, like, in the general, I recommend adding local registry of certain terms that need to be in this. Because I don't think you because if you're going take a snippet, and I don't know if you can underscore and put it in there, but that's legal to look at to

say I'll just take it out. I'll just take everything out.

All the numbers But you will want your seat well, what's in red and seat, definitely you want you know, I want I believe that this should be in this location per you know what I mean?

So he just adds a little blurb under under b here, under generally the generally section has a little blurbs, and I would I recommend adding the following.

Yeah. But I don't think he can have this like this. I think he needs to put this. And and generally, we recommend this the following be introduced to this part of the article.

Right.

So because it's a recommendation.

So he takes out he takes out section six.

Yeah. Don't put numbers in it because

Just take all that out. No numbers. No numbers. No letters. Yeah. No.

Falls in line if you had the title.

Title is right. Yeah. No. Yeah.

Because otherwise, like that, if you give that, you've already edited it. Right.

Now where I referenced well, no, that's it's already there. So I don't have to do that. I haven't done any referencing back to the ULBC in red or underlined. Gotcha. I haven't done any of that, I don't think.

Doesn't look like it.

No. Oh, yeah. My cheater notes.

Alright. I haven't done any of that, so I'm good there. Yeah.

I don't want This?

Yeah. Alright.

So you're caught up? Yeah. You want a copy of that,

sir? No.

Oh, is that the one that Heather sent to me?

You got yes. I was just looking at who was in it. You were in it, but who's not in it. That's why I wanted him to catch up on what the discussion was. Okay.

Any comes from the board. Questions?

I think you did a great job. I just finished the following up by removing all the references to sections and the numbers and letters and see if we can't make this thing fly next time.

I will fix it.

Keep the original though. I mean your version.

My goal. Guaranteed. I didn't do all that work and throw this away. No, no, no, no. Probably just make another copy of that. And they take everything and just go through and make everything black. And then Well, actually, before I do that, I underline everything. Then I make it black. Yeah. I'll do that. No problem.

And the Can I make

a blanket statement that anything that's rather than going through each individual thing, anything that's underlying is a proposal of the historic cultural Recommendation? Recommendation of the historic cultural board to modify the UDLDC.

Yeah. Because

that's what I don't want to go through each one and say

All we can do is recommend, and then they can say yay or nay to each piece that you want to put in there.

Yeah. But I want to make a blanket recommendation. I don't want to go through each item and say, oh, we recommend this. We recommend this. This is going to be repetitious. We recommend anything that's underlined.

The following and then yeah.

I think you should be okay.

Okay. Just not a raw ongoing sentence. Right.

Alright. So I have a question regarding 6.2 I'm gonna use your number system that you have in here now.

Yeah. That's that's good for reference.

6.20.9. And what you will be numbered, which is currently in the code, is 6.20.11.

What page?

One's on page seven. The other one's on page eight. So they kind of are covering the same thing. It's about making changes to a building that's been designated. So I don't know if that needs to be meshed a bit more together. Oh, okay.

6.20.7. Remove that one.

Well, or

I mean no, not 6.2.7, 6.2.9. Okay. And 6.2, what you renumbered, 11. That was already in the code that you renumbered 11.

So But this is addressing the certificate of appropriateness. They're not talking about that on

here on 11. Right. But you're saying a certificate of appropriateness for making changes to a property. Right. And they're talking about making changes to a property.

Yeah. And one of them has to do with why you what you're going to what you need to do that. This is a significant or appropriate. And then it's telling you what to do. It's like I have an instruction to do something, and then you're actually doing it. That's how I looked at it.

So take it from different government?

Well, I'm not sure who's going to develop the certificate of appropriateness. Okay? But I know what Harry is saying, but the way I look at it is, civic appropriateness is defining what that certificate is for. But then down here where it says rehabilitation, whatever, that's what they're actually doing.

Yeah. And I guess it would

Or maybe I don't know.

It would probably help, at least with the city code. It's saying that the city of Northport will ensure construction is consistent. So it'd be nice if that was clarified as to who actually that is.

Who they're referencing in the city of Northport?

Well, yeah. I mean, it Well, no. Is it someone appointed by the city manager in terms of an employee position? It

That's a city. Is that code enforcement?

Don't think code enforcement

think it's historical. It might

Code enforcement's been a

professional

architect. Code enforcement will review building code, not courtroom.

I'm sorry. On staff here? Any architect?

No. We have engineers for mechanical reviews.

I've worked with that all my life.

Yeah. No, I don't think we have architects there, especially to do with historical stuff.

Well, a structural engineer.

Engineers. Okay.

He's as good as an architect. I

don't think it's necessary to identify an individual. I think saying the city of Northport, just leaving it as is, They've just allowed them a recommendation.

Yeah, we're just recommending this. So they find that that's unnecessary. Don't need to

cross it out. And also, just going to have to end up doing that.

The theory is you're going to go through your list. We're going to submit it to them. And hopefully they come back and say, here's what before it goes anywhere, you're going to review it.

Oh, sure. Yeah. Exactly right. Right. Yeah, it's the same thing that we're going to do here. Okay.

All right.

Are we less confused now? Put it all out

there and all they can do is say no, right? Exactly. So we

don't have to get this done tomorrow. So we've got time. We can go over this again.

Is there any other pieces that you saw in there that you

Well, I mean, that was the main thing that it just seemed like those really should probably be and again, this is with the legal news that it may get meshed together. But I mean, we are now going to re well, first of all, at some point, the city will need to determine who is going to be regulating this because we are now going to be regulating properties. They're going to have to meet the Secretary of Interior Standards, someone with the city, whether it's an employee, it's this board, it's another board, or a contractor. It's going to have or if the city wants to contract somebody out to do it, it's going to have to review these certificates of appropriateness and make sure that they comply with the regulations?

Is

there a third party that you're aware of that does stuff like that?

I

contract for that.

No. You can't do it within here.

I know it. To A conflict of interest. I have to get off the board. Then

I'm just throwing this out there. Obviously, we will let the city commissioner or whoever needs to be reviewing this, review it. But now adding on a level of brick well Okay. I'm sorry. These are turning in my head.

So first of all, if we're now going to have these properties go on, yeah, so it'll have to be I saw that the property owner is going to have to consent to this. So that means that they are going to be agreeing to be regulated by the Secretary of the Standards. However, I will add that until there are changes, SB180 that was approved by the state legislature prohibits any county or municipality from making any changes to their development code that makes things more restrictive for a property owner. So this might not even fly. That's not to say we can't run through the hoops.

And so if they're talking about maybe making some changes this year in the legislature, but at some point, if that bill is rescinded or altered and those changes can be made, if we have something ready to go, then we can definitely still do that if that's what the city wants to do. But making things more restrictive Okay. Is But the

the way I look at the restriction here is the restriction is I want my property to be historically recognized.

I'm just throwing out that somebody out there who will be looking at this may be thrown that roadblock.

I think we can debate this all day long. But I'd like to see that this document be modified to conform to what needs to be submitted to the city.

Let's just

look at it next month. And let's get this thing submitted to the city. At least start with it. If they tear it apart, pull it apart, new state laws affect it, what have you, they'll modify it, make the changes. But at least we gave them a product they started

working with.

Because right now, the current ULDC is so insufficient for our purposes here. So let's get this thing moving forward. As I said before,

Northport starting from ground zero, all these municipalities around it, they've had these things for years. Here we are. We're starting out fresh. So that's why I took a lot of what they said and tried to put it into our ULDC because they know what they're doing. They've been doing it for years. Northport doesn't know what they're doing because they haven't done it. MR.

Well, now they have something to work with. MR. Exactly. So let's give them this and let them play with it and get back to us. And we'll see where we go down the road here.

So having said that, before we adjourn, we'll also have to take care of some rubbers, rules of order beforehand. But with this item, 25Dash2849, does anyone want to make a motion to I guess, who do we be even recommending this two for review?

I don't know if it requires a motion if Chris is going to rewrite the thing for us to review next week.

Well, if we're going to wait for that,

then we can Yeah. I think that was the idea. Then we will

then I will entertain a motion to table 20 five-two 849 until our February meeting. And that gives you enough time. Motion. Did I give you enough time, Chris?

I did this in

the process.

I just don't want to sit down. I just want to put you on the gun.

You're done. All

right. So I have a motion. Motion. Do I have a second?

Second.

All All those in favor? Aye. All right. So we'll deal with that discussion until the March meeting. Then that brings us to

March meeting or February?

February meeting. Sorry. I'm losing track of my dates already. All right, so that brings us to twenty six-two twenty six. Do we want to table this until the February?

I make a motion to table for February.

Yes, agreed.

Is there a second?

Second. All

those in favor? Aye. All right. Next is 20Six-two43. I will entertain a motion to table this until the February meeting.

Motion.

I move. We have a first and a second. Yes. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All any opposed? All right. Are there any other future agenda items for this board? Pushed enough. We pushed quite a bit off till next month. Just saying.

We request that Heather be at the next meeting. She couldn't make it to the next one. Think she said she'd be willing to come to the

next meeting. That'd be great.

It should be good because she could give us

All right. Is that the wishes of this board?

Yes. Yes.

Yes? Okay. I have consensus on that. Anything else for the next agenda meeting or for the agenda for next meeting?

I think that's going to be enough.

I think that's going to be more than enough. All right. I'm assuming there's no public comment. So with that, we are adjourned.