Audit Advisory Committee - Regular Meeting

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to today's meeting of the Hideaway Beach tax district that is focused on a long term strategies management strategies workshop. So this will be a workshop format today. We will not be voting on any items today. It's more information and planning oriented. So I'll call the meeting to order and ask Tara to call the roll, please. Member Barto?

Here.

Member Zinken?

Here.

Vice chair DeLauter?

Here.

Member Ramirez?

Here.

Chair Ryan?

Here.

Okay. I think in today's format, we go directly into our business. And the focus of this workshop was work done over the summer by our member, Phyllis Ramirez, along with Michael Poff from Coastal Engineering Consultants and Mohamed Debiz from Humiston and Moore. So I'm going to turn over the agenda to the consulting team to take us through the work they did.

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Hideaway Beach Long Term Management Strategies Workshop. The purpose of this workshop is to discuss and evaluate the renewal of the Hideaway Beach erosion control permit set to expire in December 2027. The key points that will be discussed include potential completion of the Tiger Tail Lagoon Sand Dollar Island ecosystem restoration project, extending the beach fill at South Point, assessing the evaluation of the protective dunes, evaluating the structural condition of the existing tea groins and the possible additions of tea groins along the North And South Points, a Marco Island Beach management agreement. And also discussed will be some conceptual alternatives to their cost, permitting feasibility in response to critical beach erosion caused by the increase in named storms, more intense rainfall, wind speeds, and sea level rise. The Hideaway Beach task district has selected two coastal engineering firms, Humiston and Moore Engineers with Mohamed Davies and Coastal Engineering Consultants Michael Puff, both Naples based coastal engineering firms that have managed several projects from inception to completion, including conceptual planning, design, permitting with the state and federal agencies, and construction for almost thirty years along the dynamic coastal zone of Marco Island.

They have focused on beach renourishment, erosion control, habitat protection, and the long term coastal resilience to ensure sustainable shorelines for residents and wildlife while working with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, Southwest Florida Water Management, US Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA, Collier County, and the city of Marco Island. Their passion, commitment, and history and success are not just a record of past efforts, but the foundation of their commitment to continue this work into the future, which is so important to all of us. Before I hand this over to them, the workshop over to them to discuss these components, I wanted to bring up another area I find important is the public relations. Through this initial workshop phase, I thought it might be a good time to discuss how important we present this information beyond the one meeting or the one workshop and how we maintain this availability of this information for both Hideaway residents and the City Of Marco Island community. With the social media post I've seen firsthand this past summer, how information can be misconstrued and sometimes seems to follow a negative misinformed path.

I think by having accurate information about the professionals involved and their credentials, permitting information, costs, funding, wildlife, etcetera, we can keep both communities informed of past efforts and future projects. I think by utilizing possibly the Hideaway Beach website and maybe the Coastal Breeze news newspaper to free, easily accessible to each community, these sources can provide accurate information that we can make available to new residents and old about the history of these areas. These coastal shorelines are used by both boaters, kayakers, paddleboarders, shell collectors, bird watchers, and are a sanctuary for coastal birds, turtles, and other marine life. They are not used just by Hideaway Beach residents but by the Marco Isla residents and the many visitors that we welcome here from all over the world. So I think it's important that we keep this information available to them.

I don't know if we wanna have a little discussion about that now or wait for that. I don't know. I know we talked yesterday a tad bit

about it. Yeah. I think it's a good time at this point if people wanna comment on this particular items because I think from here, we'll turn into the technical Exactly. Discussion. So if anyone would like to make any comments regarding public relations and the opportunity to do a better job of communicating within the hideaway community and outside the hideaway community, the work that we are doing. I welcome your thoughts at this point.

Right. Or even how to go about it. What's the best what's the best route?

I I think Phyllis brings out a good point that our communication sometimes is, lacking at the best. But at one time, Linda, we had a gentleman from a media company when we first started our endeavor on this beach that we had I forget his name.

Danny Shields.

Danny Shields. And he helped us out tremendously in the beginning when we were trying to bring all the stakeholders together.

Mhmm.

So maybe we should look into Denny and come up with some type of action plan that we might be able to do.

Okay.

I absolutely agree with John. I think it's exceedingly important and as critical a piece as engineering. I would certainly welcome that. I think we ought to budget for that. I think going forward, we ought to you're overwhelmed.

And because of the Sunshine Law, we're prohibited, obviously, from talking to each other on any topics other than in this public forum. I think having somebody dedicated to public relations, focusing on what you just verbalized and beyond would be very helpful. And and as we talk on a comprehensive plan with the county, I think having a voice that disseminates accurate information to the community is exceedingly important.

Alright. Then, Tara, why don't we consider for our next meeting discussion on and perhaps an action item on this that we'll we'll talk about, you know, offline.

And, Linda, could I even ask, could you reach out and see if Denny is still available? If he'd be interested. Sure. I know when he came and made that presentation the one time, it was a breath of fresh air from my perspective. Okay. I'd really encourage that.

Okay. We can do that. Great. Okay.

Thank you. So at this time, I'd like to turn it over. I'm not sure who wants to speak first or how the what your process is, either Mohammed or Michael or both? Both.

It's a twosome today. A twosome. Good

morning. For the record, Michael Poff, Coastal Engineering.

And Mohammed De Bees, Humsunamor Engineers.

If you could bring the presentation up for us. Mohammad thanked both Phyllis and I yesterday, but we need to thank Mohammad because he took all of the information and put it into a fantastic presentation.

I told Michael offline yesterday that three individual team was very easy to work with and we didn't have to redo anything. Everybody took their part and we managed to put it together with the very efficient work schedule. So I appreciated both Phyllis and Michael for making it less stressful than most tasks I have to deal with. But this the Phyllis, I think, provided an overall important introduction. Michael and I will go through some technical parts.

We touched on the public relations and the public relations needs. It's two prongs. Number one, in my view is to have the people of authority or people of the weight behind what they say well informed. So whatever we do, we have two target audience. Number one, our decision makers, people of authority need to know what's going on so that when they ask, whether it's in a city council or a county commission or a commissioner update, they need to have a very concise synopsis of what is the issue, what is the what are the issues, and who's in charge and what they're doing.

Because these are the individuals that kind of become on the receiving end of misinformation. So informing those should be more on us collectively because I think it's not fair for a media person to be on top of everything we are doing and that would be a huge undertaking unless they're always involved with every step, which will be costly. So informing the decision maker is one and then being active on the forums where people threw stuff. And I would caution against going against tit for tat and trying to bounce on every item and respond. We have to kind of there are a number of people on the island that you can never convince with anything and engaging with them give them more fodder to keep propagating their misinformation.

So it needs to be managed and controlled in a way that when there is something to be said, it needs to be said. And when there are people just throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks, I think it's better to just let it slide. But I focus more on the first one or making sure that the people of authority know what's going on so that they can answer or be aware rather than just being on the receiving end of a salad of stuff that that they is cannot verify. So that's my take on the PR part, but I'm not taking I'm not saying it is not important because we put in our first item under the introduction because as I mentioned yesterday, miss Ramirez did a lot of homework and she took notes from everything she researched and that was a sore point that was the contrast between what is the actual actual message versus what people at large are receiving. Then the third point in our outline is the short line history and the current program.

And one of the main messages that we really need to get people to understand is that Marco Island is a relatively small individual island. It is not a mainland and it is not what it was forty years ago when some people moved in and say we missed it up. It is a barrier island that if it was left to its own development and evolution, it would be similar to the isle to the Kiwadin or Sea Oat Island. Half of Sea Oat Island was gone from nineteen sixties to now, obliterated by natural evolution. So when it is an island, it's shifting sane.

So people need to understand that, and people need to not make comparison with wherever they are from, whether it's Connecticut, New Jersey, whatever it is, every island is unique. Every island has its own composition. And there is nothing more than if you just look at these two areas and look at what conditions were in the eighties versus now. Forty years, but there's a lot of change. And if you go further back, it's a lot more change.

The only thing that doesn't change is the roads and the buildings and the infrastructure that was put in the nineteen fifties and sixties and seventies. And that is a message that needs to be understood that we are in shifting sands. And as sand shifts, some areas will become more exposed. And our part is to understand where the sand is shifting and be a couple of steps ahead of it so that we do not get caught with areas that are extremely vulnerable. The the island from the center of it is stable, but the lateral ends are both critical.

The south end is stabilized with a lot of structures. There is Cape Marco is lined up like a fort with a lot of rocks and breakwaters and groins, conventional conventional shore protection effort. To the north, we have a critical wildlife area and a fast evolving area. And if people understand that and then understand the concept that the natural system that is sheltering the north part of the island is is I don't wanna call it sacrificial line of defense, but it is a renewable a renewable line of defense that is intended to deform with the hits it takes to protect what's behind it. So with not with every rainfall, and we have some tributaries of rain channeling through the sand, oh, no.

The berm is failing apart. But if you look at the history of the berm before it was restored, it was breached multiple times. It was lowered with every storm, but nobody commented on it because it was a natural feature. Now we own it. You understand that ownership, and we are what we need to get ahead of everything is making the understanding of the function of those features and then how we are dealing with nature in the sense when we have a major storms, we have immediate response and repairs.

When we don't have immediate when we don't have urgency to fix every little defect, then we have a maintenance program that goes on every year or every two years as necessary. And we have a litany of qualified observers in the state and the Army Corps and Fish and Wildlife Service and others that are the guardian of that system and they have a big steps of monitoring and mitigation requirements that we are obliged to follow. And if we can get this message across, then people will not just be trying to fish for negatives and just put it on coastal breeze or social media or what have you. And with that, I will turn it over to Michael to go through the third item, which is the history that he touched on part of it yesterday. And then

Thank you, Mohammad. So in 2010, he had CEC come on board to help with the program, and we ended up with the final three T groins. We did an evaluation of different strategies. It was basically a fresh look at the program. And ultimately, the stakeholders and you decided to put in the last three T groins.

And then we've been helping you with the every three year dredging events up until the ability to do the Tiger Tail sand airline restoration project and dredging the sand trap, which basically has now extended the interval between times when you have to dredge the nearshore bar area. So looking at the table. So in 2013, when we put in the last three T groins, we also put 25,000 yards of sand on North Beach. And we put 50,000 yards across the rest of the island sorry, the rest of the hideaway beach in order to fill the permitted template. Then in 2016, dredge mobilized again.

It wasn't because we needed sand on the beach, it's because of the potential attachment of the Central Island Spit to Hideaway Beach itself. The near shore barrier needed to be dredged. So in this case, we worked with Collier County. We ended up putting the sand out on the Gulf Front Beach about 24,000 yards. Put 10,000 yards down at South Point.

That was the only place that really needed some sand because of a prior breaching. Then in 2019, we did the project placing 55,000 yards, plus we elevated the beach. Then we did the Sand Island project, as Mohammed has presented, about 500,000 yards total. Then there was a little bit of dredging out of Collier Creek as well that came up on North Beach as part of that program to kind of finish things out. And then with the recovery efforts after the recent hurricanes, about 150,000 yards was dredged and placed along to repair the berm for Sandile Island.

So that is your dredge quantity in history since 2013.

And then we had the 10,000 that we recovered and put on Hideaway Beach in 2024 as well. Right?

That is correct. Thank you. We can get that added into the I'm just looking.

Okay. And of the 55,000 in 2019, did you assess how much it would have been without the berm elevation, roughly?

It was 75,000 total. The 20,000 was the extra sand. So I should have also added that, that there's an there was an additional 20,000 yards was placed to elevate the beach. Okay. So the total was 75, about 20 for elevating, then 55 filled the template.

And at that time, we raised the beach a foot?

Half a foot.

Half a foot.

Okay. That is correct. So if you look at the original design, Homosotomor, the first project was in 2005. And between 2005 and 2000, basically, 20, looking at sea level change, we added the half a foot of berm to account for that.

Okay. And as we discussed yesterday, the elevation now is five feet for most of the beach.

So the the point at which the the slope goes into the river is about 2.9, and then it gently gradually slows back. On average, it's plus five to plus five and a half at the vegetation line. Correct.

Okay. Okay.

Obviously, some places are little bit higher, some are little bit lower.

Okay. Anyone have any questions on this? Okay. Go ahead, Michael.

So kind of zooming in on the different elements. We have the nearshore bar area. It's been expanded several times as Sandor Island has grown. The offshore bar area, it's also a disposal area. So sand can be placed in there. Sand can be removed from there. It has been expanded over time in coordination with Collier County. We have the different beach fill segments. We have the North Beach, basically the 5006 Thousand building, Rail Marco Point, the rest of the towers. We have Central Beach, including the clubhouse, and then South Point.

We permitted the ability to put sand from the near shore bar area onto Sandar Island. So we modified the erosion control project permit to allow that to then have sand placed on Sandar Island. So if we don't need sand on the beach, we can dredge the near shore bar area and place the sand. We also have the permit to allow for placement of sand from the offshore Ebb Shoal bar area onto Sander Island, which, of course, is what we used to finish the 500,000 cubic yard project that Mohammed led.

How long is that permit good for?

Until December 2027. So we have a little over two years. And the goal is, as Mohammed said, we want to stay out in front of things. So in 2026, we want to initiate the renewal of that permit. The challenge is with Collier County and Collier Creek, that's an active major modification to the permit. That needs to get issued before we can apply for a renewal. Now DEP has issued their permit for Collier Creek. It's just the federal permit we're waiting on. So in theory, we can start the process with the state, but we really need to start the federal process. That's the one that has the longer time frame.

Now what the agencies have told us is because of the delays in getting to permitting the major mod for the county, that they're willing to look at a short extension to allow that project to be constructed. So it may be that with that project, let's say it gets permitted in the 2026, I'm speculating. We don't know when it's going get permitted. We don't know when Collier County is going to implement it. But let's hypothetically say, in the middle of 2026, they go ahead and issue permits and Collier County tees up the project.

They build it in 2027. We wouldn't need an extension, so we need to be ready to submit. If they don't issue the permit until 2027, they're going to have to give them time to build it. So we'll continue to coordinate and communicate with the agencies and with Collier County on their schedule, we can report back to you and make the best decisions that we can. Okay.

If I may add on that strategic planning point for the Hideaway Beach erosion control project is that we have two years from now. During the period of time, we what we need to do is bring the structures to its design functionality by following Michael's recommendations for the tonnage or the rock that needs to restore the structures to the design elevation. And by doing that, before the permit expires, we don't really need the structural element of the permit for at least ten years, barring a big event that would damage the structures. So that will give us time until the new permit gets issued. When we have structures in any permit, it delays the permit.

But the fact that we're not introducing any new structures, the way I see the new permit will be a lot more kind of concise than just renewing everything in the old permit because we're not going to build any new structures. With the addition of the county's terminal structure to the Northeast of Hideaway, we don't need structures as an element to that other than maintaining existing structure. So the next time Michael puts the package for the permit renewal, it will be permit renewal for probably an improved fill template given the current conditions and maintaining existing structures, which will be a lot easier to review an issue than what we had to go through with that permit over the past twenty years.

You're jumping ahead though because we haven't yet discussed whether we wanna make any changes on our terminal groin by the 6000 building and whether we wanna structures at the south end. So we In have that regard, but

for the timeline for when the permit expires, I'm just trying to say we have two years and in those two years, we need to do what we need to do under the current permit. And then the second item will be as far as the timeline, as Michael indicated, we don't know when the core permit will be issued for the Collier Creek. And if we see that, that permit is probably going to be issued in 2026 barring any big problems, but if there are, then you have to make the decision whether you need to file a new permit application rather than a renewal. Because what we from what our observation and renewing permits with the Army Corps, it really doesn't gain us any favor for renewing a permit than submitting a new application. They consider it a new application and three go through all the hoops and everything.

All right.

Well, let's skip right back to that. One point I did want to make, Michael, that I think is important to emphasize, particularly for the Hideaway Beach community, is that from an expense standpoint, we were dredging that near shore borrow area at a frequency higher than what we needed for beach renourishment, as you commented, in order to maintain the channel into the lagoon. And with our current strategy with the Tiger Tail Lagoon Sand Dollar Island permit, we don't have to do that because that is the sand trap at the Northern Spit is a source of sand for renourishment of the of of the Tiger Tail area. And we all need to be very clear that if for any reason we did not continue to do that, then we would be back to having to do that near shore borrow area dredging to maintain the channel there. And so there's a cost trade off there that we need to understand and that our community needs to understand because we were having to dredge that, you know, at least once every three years, if not moving to once every two years.

But it's also a function of the availability of sediment in the nearshore borough area. So moving forward, your primary source for hideaway is Collier Creek, and then the second primary source will be the offshore borrow area and the navigation channel.

Well, and I wanted to ask you one other question, Michael. The diagram of the offshore borrow area is the current permitted offshore borrow area. It does not include the extension that is under review by the Army Corps in the Collier Creek permit.

Because DEP issued the permit, we actually showed. So that

Oh, you do show it.

Southern leg, that southern arm, so to speak, with, a so we have the l. Yeah. I don't know if I can show it.

So the c, the lower part of the c is the expansion or This just

is the original borrow area, the 02/2005 borrow area. Okay. And that that is the expansion that lines up with the channel.

Okay. And the and that, the original borrow area is in both of our permits. The extension is under permit author it's been approved by the state, but has not yet been approved by the army corps as part of the Collier Creek permit mod. And that extension is not currently in our Tire Tail Lagoon permit.

Correct? Correct.

Okay. I just wanna be sure everybody's clear on on those details because it matters in terms of where we are going forward. Thank you.

So, again, just kinda walking through the different elements. So coming from this is a profile through Royal Marco Point, Station 58 Plus 29. We show the grade in 2011, which was our design survey for the 2013 project. We show the post construction grade after the project in 2016 and in the current conditions for 2025. The points here are several.

First, it gives you the elevations of the templates. It shows you the steel sheet pile, which was placed to create the T groin, the rock apron for the T groin. It shows you the erosion control line. That's the blue dash line, vertical line. That is the demarcation between private property and state property.

It shows the vegetation line. And if you look at the red line, which is 2025, and the orange line, the twenty seventeen, there was significant overwash from the different storm events that actually added elevation and actually placed sand. So it actually moved the line of beach landward as the overwash occurred. In this case, the majority of your fill template is whole, which means at this time, there's very little sand that could be placed to fill the permitted template.

And it's hard to see the existing grade in 2017. Is the the red line, the dune part is higher, considerably higher than it was in 2017?

Is that That is correct.

Okay. Because that was because the sand from the storms was pushed landward.

That's correct. It added about, 30 feet of elevation above plus five.

Okay. And the

From the vegetation

line that seaward has eroded.

That is correct. Okay.

That's very slight erosion. But also, that profile has received some of the sand that we recovered and graded. So that's why it's really close to the design template, the red and the black and the on the the

Right.

The interface because that was just maintained in April. That's basically the northern most section that we recovered in front of the 4,000 building debt.

Okay. So the dark black line is the design That's

the design template. There is a construction tolerance that does allow us to place a little additional fill order to maintain the design template. So that's why the 2017 is a little bit wider. That's part of the construction tolerance. Then moving down the beach into Central Beach. So this shows very similar comparisons of the profiles over time. It also shows where the near shore bar area template would be. So the key points here are that this beach has eroded. You can see the design template, the bold line, and the red line being the twenty twenty five profile. So this is the area that's directly exposed to direct wave attack.

Thus, the beach is eroded in this area. So the majority of the volume that I reported yesterday, the 27,000 yards to fill the template, the majority of it lies in this kind of reach that's directly exposed to the elements.

So this is this is on Royal Marco Point, not, on the North Beach, but on the?

So this is H 9, so it'd be at the at the very first tower.

1000 Building.

1000.

So the 1000 Building. Okay.

Just notice here that there is no material to dredge from offshore from the nearshore burrow area. And we anticipate that that will be the case. Michael has surveyed that burrow area now three times post the 2023. And it because of the sand is being intercepted at the tip, we don't have the infill in that channel, which goes back to the discussion that we had earlier. The other thing that the template, while it's designed further while we can see that the design template goes beyond the tea growing, we don't anticipate that, that template will ever be stable at that profile.

When we design that, we build it out that way so that we can put the structure where it needs to go because at the time of construction, that profile was at the edge of a channel. And we did the nourishment first and then drove the sheet piles and placed the rock. So that portion of the template usually you fill it and Michael did the biggest over fill was the 2013?

We overfilled in 2019 by when we raised the barn, we also placed it out to the design time.

And then how long did it take to adjust to the structures in that spot? But at the time, Sand Dollar Island was sheltering that portion. So that's why it's kind of that shelter moved Correct. A little

Right. So we had Hurricane Irma, which would have taken some of it out. And then obviously with the sand trap being dredged, now we have

Okay.

More of a direct exposure here.

Now in your report yesterday, I'm remembering we had something like 44,000 cubic yards of sand in the nearshore borrow area, somewhere in that range.

It is spread out in a very thin and very small areas across that entire length. The volume is there, but most of it's in the one foot overdredge and small little pockets. It'd be very, very expensive to go have a dredge, go find those little pockets of sand. It's not like it's a beautiful chunk of sand in one area. They could sit there and dredge.

Okay. So although there is sand there, it is not accessible. So in terms of beach renourishment, you're saying we would need to go to the offshore borrow area or call expensive. Your

So we would allow the contractor let's say we were going to do a project in the spring, we would put both borrow areas in there and let them decide what's more cost effective to do a 1.5 foot dredge in a sheltered area or just go dig a eight foot face and knock it out in a much shorter time. So that would be a cost benefit analysis. It would be really based on the contractors and what equipment is available at the time.

And there's plenty of sand available in the offshore borrow area?

Correct. Hundreds of thousands of yards,

correct. Okay.

And then moving down into the Central segment, very similar in that we have the template. It's full at this time. The near shore bar area was excavated. So this is a good indication of where you can see little pockets. So where the red line is above the black dash line, that's where you have sand that you could go dredge.

But again, it's very, very small, very thin cuts in the side slopes. So when the contractor cuts, they cut a box cut. And then mother nature will find that angle of repose. That's why you see kind of what we call it sloughing or slope adjustment after the construction is completed. And then wrapping around to South Point, again, very similar.

And then we had done some extra surveys when we did the project in 2016 where we placed that sand at the very, very south end to the end of the erosion control line. We don't survey this profile every year. We don't have a 2025 profile, but this is through 2024.

I'm sorry. The lower diagram is

That's correct. '78 plus zero zero, correct. If you look at the which one do you use? It cuts right through that area there, which is the area we filled in '20 This is the area we filled in 2016. Okay.

And now this area is restored last spring to even higher elevation. We have a temporary kind of higher dune that will eventually be much higher than the 2.7 elevation that's in the 2024. So we taper from 2.7 back to plus six at the backside at the vegetation line section. Okay.

So base oops, I just messed up.

Just push back, maybe.

So what what Mohammed did in the recovery effort was to take this slope and restore the grade.

So we added dune at the backside that goes to plus six as we saw yesterday in the culvert plant.

Which then allows basically a continuation of this dune feature at about plus 5.5 to To

go all around South Point.

So he in the recovery effort recovered the overwashed sand or took advantage of the overwashed sand to extend that elevation 5.5 to six all along the southern end, which is one the things we talked about maybe doing in the future permit when we talked about it a year ago. But between Mother Nature and the recovery work, it's now been addressed. So that's one of the things off the checklist. As I mentioned, we modified the permits. We could put sand from near shore bar area, which was done during the project, to help contribute to the 500,000 cubic yard.

So let's talk about I thought there was one more slide that showed the Gulf Front Beach. Did you take that one out?

Gulf Front Beach. Oh, I did not. I thought it was in the overall map.

Oh, got you. Sure. So we mentioned in 2016 that we also placed sand the central part of Markle Islands Beach as part of Collier County's work to regrade that area that also Homosotomor did. So that is in your current permit. It's one of those things where we don't think we're going to take sand there again, but it costs you nothing to include it in the future permit.

So when we go to apply for the new permit, there's a couple of things we can talk about. That's one of them is do we want to go ahead and keep that in there. In case we want to take sand down there for any reason, The likelihood of that is probably slim to none. So let me want to talk about project features and adaptations to the current program. So this would be for the applying when we apply for a new permit, we drew in where the county's proposed terminal groin is to be placed.

They're going to remove this jetty. They're gonna put a small spur here, excavate all the sand. Some will be placed in this area. The rest, they've originally proposed to go to the offshore disposal areabar area. The goal is to work with them to put it on Sandar Island instead.

I have a question to that. Do we ever figure out what the long term goal for Hideaway Beach is when this is installed?

So if you recall, in 2013, CEC had designed another T groin in this area. And we had designed relocating this jetty so that this area would be stabilized as well. And so Collier County's plan is similar to what CEC designed. And we recommended to you that no additional action would be needed. With the inclusion of the terminal structure, you get a similar operation to a T groin for the hideaway side.

So as sand transports laterally into this area, this will impound the sand between this groin and this groin. So we would expect this beach to have some recovery and some stability when this structure is added.

Is it estimated that it's gonna do anything else to the south side of the beach? The the two groins, is it gonna fill in more sand there?

In here?

Yes. Groins are gonna become obsolete? Or

No. Definitely not obsolete. No. Because they are protecting from this direct attack. But mother nature will move sand along shore here. And so as instead of the sand being transported and then eroded from direct wave attack, this will help impound that sand and keep it there.

And the county is going to add sand there. I think the sand they're removing from near the jetty is going behind the groin there. So they're going to fill that in

some land. So they they're required to rebuild land in this area. So the first amount of sand will be placed along here, and then the rest will hopefully go to Sand Dollar Island.

Or it it could possibly go to our North Beach too depending if we need sand there at that time.

Yep. According to the permit. Yes.

There's nothing to prevent that from happening.

Right.

Carter County's position has been not to put sand directly on Hideaway Beach. So that would be something that would have to be coordinated.

So Yeah. But we've done we've taken sand from Collier Creek before.

But you paid for it.

You have done so. They have not.

For Collier County to place sand on a private beach

Okay.

They might have concerns over that. But if it's labeled disposal, it could be, you know. Okay. There are a lot of navigation project that the sand is placed on adjacent beaches, on private beaches, and it still qualifies for the local and state funding because it is it is done for navigation, not for it's not a borrow area, it's a navigation reservoir.

So that will be a decision point when they get the correct.

And there's also the idea to partner where you pay the incremental cost to put it on North Beach versus State Lands if there's excess volume. And so you would pay if it's 7,000 yards on North Beach right now, 7,000 times if it's, say, 12 a yard, you're not going to get any cheaper than that.

And it would be cost saving for them too because they don't have to pipeline that would be two miles. I think it would be a win win discussion with depending on the conditions at the time of the Okay.

Gentlemen, when the proposed terminal groin is put in as drawn there, are you expecting it to fill in between the last T groin and the terminal groin? You start sand to fill in there by itself?

Collier County will fill this area there. Yeah. At the time of construction, they will fill it?

Well, I thought yeah. So to the left of the of the terminal groin, is that gonna fill in

there? Yes.

Yes.

And then where I know you're moving the the terminal jetty by Collier Creek. Is is how far is where is that gonna be moved to?

They Collier County is removing the entire structure. They're excavating the majority of the sand out of there, they're putting a small spur. It'll be aligned differently. Right? Right there. It's a very small spur. It's only gonna be, like I think it's only, like, 50 or 35 feet long.

I know they are very anxiously waiting to get this completed because you can hardly walk through there now as you probably And also it drops off very, very quickly. Is almost, the wall is almost vertical. If you try to try to walk in the water, you can only walk in the water about two steps and that's it's near and over your waist and you're over your over over your head. So you gotta be that's why I'm asking, what are we gonna do to prevent that from having a case? You know, it's close to the 6000 pool and I know that we own that property.

But I'm not talking about I'm just talking about hideaway owns it. And are we gonna try to get the fit to fill in ahead of time before just put the grinder and hope it fills in? Or or how are we gonna get it to fill in?

The the county is going to take sand when they remove the jetty and and they're gonna place the first volume of sand along the shoreline to restore So the county is going to do that.

I'm sorry?

The county will do that.

Yeah. I know. Then after We haven't heard much from a recent

project performance and Michael does the monitoring. If there are any additional fill template that needs to be incorporated into this, we'll come back with this recommendation, but we can only We try

to walk from the existing T grind down to where the proposed terminal jetty will be. Terminal groin will is totally out of the water now, but it's it it'll be or

This area also is not in hideaway property. That's why Michael's

I can't hear you.

Your property line

Yes.

Ends 25 feet from the Tigrohin, comes landward, and cuts across.

Okay. Yes.

You don't own this land.

I understand that.

And so your current permit does not have you placing any sand in here. The county is going to place some sand in here when they do their plan. And then between these two structures, the sand will get impounded. So just like the sand we place gets trapped by each t groin, it will get trapped by their terminal groin and this area should remain stable based upon having the structures in this alignment.

Then past that towards the creek. Yes. We're I think we're gonna remove the existing terminal jetty and angle it differently so it would go that's what the county proposed.

That's correct.

Angle it differently. So, Clyde Creek will be wider, won't be so hard to navigate. Is that still the plan?

A: That's our understanding, yes.

Okay. So

looking forward to oh, no, no. We want to talk about the adaptation. Paul Fernstrom, as you know, the representative of the 6000 building in this area, has been out there every day. He sees what's going on. He has raised the topic of modifications to the T groins in this area.

So one of the discussion items was to, as Thomas and Amor did, after they had built the different T groin sections in 'five and 2010, on the end groin, they had beefed it up. So if you zoom in over here to our typical section, they would add about a 25 foot that would help divert currents a little bit. And that's as far as you could go because your property line is right there. You'll have to get a waiver from the state that allows you to build within 25 feet of your riparian line in order to add that structure. And then the other item that has been under discussion is should we raise the elevation of one or more of the T Groynes, specifically at least this one, because of the swift currents that are coming across here during high tides and king tides, the structure is pretty much completely underwater.

And so one option is to take the top layer of armor stone off of this structure and bring in a larger stone and add that half a foot to a foot of protective elevation, possibly here and even this structure. So in the scheme of doing that, that's going to require permit modification. But since we're going be renewing our new permit, it would make sense to consider renewing that, putting this in the new application, and permitting it. I know Mohammad had talked about trying to get to a new permit more rapidly when we introduce changes to structures that will lengthen the permit time.

I'd like to see the drawing of the existing terminal jetty and the one because I think that's gonna be taken out and moved over

to the left. My recommendation is not to include structures in a future permit. Our recommendation is to make sure that we have authority to restore our beaches. Adding any structural elements results in at least an extra year in federal review, if not longer. So I would recommend that we renew the straightforward elements for the fifteen year duration.

And then if we need some structural modification, we can do that as a permit model in the future so that we do not hold up our authority to fix our beaches in case of any storm. And then if all these are minors that can go as a minor modification, goes to the review as long as it takes. And if the county places that structure, it will kind of resolve some of the issues of the currents because it will extend further and it will defer the currents away from that last structure. So that's basically the recommended path forward in That new terminal,

new jetty will have sheet pile driven. No. No sheet pile

driven there? It's just a rock pile.

All stone?

Yes. Okay. That's the county's design. And as I said, Michael's monitoring plan extends beyond that. So once it's constructed, we'll fine tune anything that needs to be done and then it can be done easily with a permit modification. But trying to do things ahead, while we did not evaluate the functioning of that specific groin, it will be a lot easier to do post construction. It's a fine tuning. It's not a major item.

Michael, I have a question. The proposed T groin extension 25 feet, that's a new extension to that groin that you might consider. Is that correct? As well as elevating the groin sorry, I should say, our T groin, elevating it a foot or two?

Those are the two scenarios that Paul has presented that we were asked to talk about for today.

Okay. And the T groin extension, you think, would be difficult to permit because of where the property line is?

Well, it's as as Mohammed said, when you introduce changes to structures, they could ask us to remodel the whole system, add the county's terminal groin in, and demonstrate that it's necessary. That's what's going to happen during the permitting.

Okay.

And it spin the model back up again and and go through the all those alternatives to demonstrate that it's absolutely necessary to put that in.

But what

Mohammed said, in all likelihood, again, he and I have not modeled this. The county put this together, and it is close enough to what we recommended to you that it didn't make sense to object to what they were doing rather to support the county's plan. If all goes according to plan, you won't need to modify Tigroind 19 for a long period of time.

But you are recommending that we look at adding elevation to the last two TIGRing ships?

I'm not recommending that. What we're bringing forward today is those things that have been presented to us over the last fifteen years. And this is something that Paul has been really, really passionate about, is modifying at least this last structure because of the scouring and the issues that he has observed. If the county did not have this terminal groin plan

Then we would do it.

Then I would that would have a different wait. Mom and I have a different recommendation for you.

Basically, you're saying we need to wait till they get that in Yeah. And take a look at how the dynamics change with that terminal structure and evaluate at that time whether we want to elevate elevate the last one or two two girders.

That's our recommendation.

Okay. Alright. Then introduce it as a minor permit mod after we get the bigger picture all permit. Okay.

Alright. I understand now. Thank you.

We should have shown this one first, guess. This would answer a lot of the questions. So this is from the county's permit drawing. Sorry, we should have probably put this one first. So that's the same structure we just showed. Here's the proposed beach fill. And there's the last Tigarhoin. In this picture, it happens to be covered with sand. So to answer all of your questions, this is where the beach fill is going to be placed. And this is the new channel alignment.

And that is the new proposed jetty. I don't even know if you can even call it a jetty anymore, but it's I would call it a training structure. They're training the flow to go out the new path. So all of this sand will be excavated, replaced to fill the permitted template, and then the rest will get placed in one of those different options we talked about.

Okay.

I thought it's a good idea for the last three or four years since it's been proposed. I just wish they'd get going on it.

They started that effort in 2017 and hopefully they'll get the permit next year.

So there's been a lot of talk about the flooding of these major storm events. And so we were asked to present if we were to elevate the existing beach, elevate the dune, or add dunes. There's a lot of dune vegetation. There's a lot of natural landscape and manicured lawns. So we took our typical cross sections that we've been talking about.

This is, again, at Royal Marco Point. And so here is your tea groin, basically your 2.9 elevation sloping up to about five. And so the idea is here is your existing vegetation line. If you were to build a new dune, see where the vegetation line, then you're going to be occupying your dry beach, your recreational beach. So one option is to reduce your beach width and add elevation in that regard.

Or, in this case, add elevation on the landward side and then revegetate this area. We're not recommending this be done at this time, but it's something to be thinking about for the future Now that the recovery work after the storms has provided that kind of uniform plus 5.5, six along the beach, you have some time. But let's think about ten years from now, or maybe even five years from now, when we do the next dredging project, that would be the time to look at elevating and constructing this. Because you can't hydraulically place that small little trapezoid with a dredge, because of the volume of water and sand coming out. This would have to be manicured.

Either you dig a hole, you fill it up, you transport the sand, put it in place. Or when we go to do the whole project and we have a nice fill template, then the contractor could build that as part of the template at the same rate very And

that's an additional foot, is what you're showing there?

This is just an example. There's no recommendation at this time, because the plus 5.5, plus six is what we've restored to. But as sea level's changing so it might be five years from now, it might be ten years from now Muhammad and I will come back to you and say, the beach should be at plus seven or maybe plus eight. We would need

re vegetate the dune at that time, so there's a vegetation cost as well.

Correct.

So in short is Excuse me.

The storm surge play anything on these elevations?

Yes. The storm surge and the run up and the frequency of the storm.

4,005, it would benefit them if the elevation

Currently, the the overwash pushed the sand in front of the 5006 Thousand Building. So you had kind of like an overwash doing behind the vegetation line. And at this time, we did not recommend removing it because we don't have the space to put it without sacrificing your beach because your beach is very narrow. So in the future, we're planning to reinforce your Overwatch Dune as your Dune and then that will give us more space for the beach in the future. So the problem we have with the Dune is space and elevation.

In this profile here, Anika, if I can borrow this, when we design those structures, the crest elevation or the sheet pile top is plus one. It's really not high. And the main idea of that was we did not want to put structures that will create erosion in the adjacent areas. And they started only in Royal Marco Point and South Point. Now that we have the whole line, when Michael was permitting the last of the tea groins, he maintained that elevation because there was concern on the State Park.

So once that cell is all completed and you're looking into strategic planning into the future, if you see that your frequency of storms and the surge and the run up is frequenting overtopping your beach, your your first line of protection will be to have a continuous do that will be above plus six, plus seven. But the issue is from from 3000 Building North, you don't have a lot of real estate. So the only way for us to restructure this area and have a dune is to work on the backside because otherwise, you will not have a beach. So to put this dune feature, you need to put it where the overwash is now, which is behind the see, this is the edge of the vegetation. See how this dune is all the way in?

If you move between Royal Marco Point and South Point, that dune is in front or seaward of the existing vegetation. But the 3,000 building to the 6,000 building, the beach tapers and become very narrow. So that's one. The other point will be in the future, you may need to superelevate that if we are talking about long term planning ten, fifteen, twenty years from now, may need, as Michael indicated, to replenish the rock and gain elevation with a permit modification and then elevate your beach from starting at two to 5.5 to be from 3.5 to seven. And that will take into account the dune.

So as what we're saying now is, keep in mind where your space is, keep in mind that as conditions change, we may need to establish a frontal dune and that frontal dune will be will crossover with the current vegetation. And as we're planning, if you're planning to do any vegetation, coordinate this with us so that we can say, in five to ten years, we may need to relocate the system and replace the current vegetation with dune vegetation and add sand and create the elevations, modify the structures. All these are long term planning, but we need to know where we're heading from now so we don't, let's say, spend money on landscape on things that will have to be removed five years from now.

Well, I think in long term planning, we should take in consideration a storm surge.

As I said

I mean, that's our biggest the North End, that's the biggest problem. And since we're on a defensive mode down in the South End, maybe we should start looking at a defensive position.

That that's that's why we're we're we're talking. We will propose to you with every cycle whenever we have a project coming up, like Michael did elevate the beach by zero five foot in 2013, So we're ten years from there. If and what we did with our recovery at South Point is we actually put the Doonta above plus six. So South Point now that used to be the weakest link is now the strongest point and that half a foot can easily be added when we do the next nourishment. And then the following nourishment if we elevate the Doom by another half foot, but my concern is when you elevate, you need slopes to go down from that six or seven down.

And South Point had the space for us to grade it and still have a flat berm. At your area, that space is not is not available. So that means we have to rework because the buildings are not going anywhere, the structures are not going anywhere.

That's correct.

So we have to work from the hardlines to the hardline. And we need to make sure that we have at least roughly 20 feet of beach berm for to be a functional recreational beach. So the only way you can elevate from the berm elevation of plus four or plus 3.5 now to go to seven or eight if you need that in the future to defend against then potential you need to have those slopes and revegetate those slopes with dune vegetation rather than the current vegetation. Only on that section from 3,000 to 6,000.

So Mohammad, in that section, the berm is at 3.5 to four feet?

On the backside. On the front side, it's two and a half or

two feet. Yeah. I'm talking about the on the the backside. Okay. So as part of our renewal of our permit or new permit we should include request to raise the berm elevation to give us the option to do it in what time frame we wish to do it. Right?

We can yes, raising the elevation by half a foot is not going to register anything with the agencies. You're modifying the structures

Right. Modifying

we'll that all depends on the pre app discussions. And then if the court tells us if you modify structures, I'll have to defer it to engineering review, we'll say, no, thank you very much. We'll keep that Yes. But for

just talking on the Dune. We should request to elevate the dune. How much should we request? So obviously, we can then decide how much we'll do. But how much are you recommending that we request as part of the permit application?

Well, I think if we request putting a plus seven to plus eight, even if we don't do it, and then with every event, we raise half a foot, just as we discussed it, we need continuity. There is a lot of space from Royal Marco Point all the way to South Point for width wise to establish a dune with reasonable slopes that will have dune vegetation. There was a lot of pushback on Michael earlier, I don't know, five, ten years ago when he tried to put a dune because people want the access. They want to walk without having to go over any humps. But people's perception changed after in, Idalia, Helene, Milton where their properties were flooded.

So now that inconvenience could be more amenable and to make sure that it doesn't become a sudden change into people's usage. We need to put the if we're putting we don't have boardwalks here for So doing it will be something that Michael can present as an incremental plan elevate the Doom to plus seven and that will happen over a cycle of two or three events, but it would be good to have it in the permit. That's why when we discussed it, Michael and I, we kind of looked at the whole section almost property by property. And the only issues we had is when the lines kind of

When you get into this area where the beach narrows so much. For example, people are going say, don't we just go to plus 10? We've had these storm surges. Six and seven isn't enough. In this area, if you do that and you bring that slope up, you're going to be encroaching into what is your fully landscaped and detention areas. But to get to plus 10, unless you're going to use up 25%, 30% of your beach, which we know you don't want to do, we got to move significantly landward, and that's going to really affect what is currently there in your landscaping and drainage.

And and you will need to establish ramps for the beach access.

Right.

And do walkovers if it's as you

So we're not going to go that extreme.

So what I'm saying is the elevation at the ground elevation at the garages of those buildings is probably plus three, right? If you go to plus eight, you have five feet. Five feet, if you're walking and you want a comfortable walk, you need that slope to be one to 20, if you don't want to notice it. But if you put it at one to 10, you'll start to feel it. If you put it at one to five, you need steps.

Guess I like the idea of an incremental raising. Way people adjust to the the change versus some big change. The only concern is that when we do it by the 3,000 to 6,000 building, if we have to replant the dune, we have to consider how frequently we're gonna do this because there's an additional cost.

There's there's noticeable change now walking up. You you with the overwashing sand coming in, there's a big elevation. I don't know what it is.

They they already have areas that are plus six or higher.

Sure. Well, you can see the slope. I mean, we have a one on four. Yeah. I mean, This is steeper than one on four in some areas.

It's getting right now. Yes.

So the initial rejection I would say is, it was this is plus three and the beach was 3.5. So it was kind of like an open backyard versus now you've got a hump to get to the beach, which is in any natural system, your dunes are higher, and that's why in the city of Naples or anywhere, there are dune walkovers because your dune is your frontal protection.

I'm confused that you said that the dune was 3.5 to four, and now you're saying it's six in some areas. I'm confused.

The the areas that got the sand overwash.

Right.

If you go back to your 58 profile.

Behind the tree line.

Yeah. So see the dark black line here? Yes. That was the elevation before the storm, right? And then the storm eroded all the beach and then pushed the sand inside. See the VL is the vegetation line. Can you mark it? So that's where the trees are.

So all of this sand above the black line, that's all overwash, which added a foot and a half of elevation in

this Okay. Should we be doing more vegetation there to to maintain that area?

No, I

didn't This area has plenty of vegetation.

There is? Okay.

The only problem is you don't have access for equipment to work.

Exactly. So

it's what I'm trying to say is the buildings are not going anywhere, the structure is not going anywhere. You need to understand your elevations and the slopes to make it accessible for people and have a berm. But then your only way to rework this, just like if you're remodeling your house, there are things that you can remodel with things in place, and there are things you have to remove and replace. And the things that you will have to remove and replace in that case will be trees.

Linda, I think whether it's I don't know what specific plans the villas are, the '2 thousand, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000. Steve's on the board there. Everybody is planning for storm surge to eliminate it.

Mhmm.

But this seems to be the first line of defense Right. For storm surge. So somewhere in the strategic plan, I believe we should do it. Whether we do it over time or

Right. No. Absolutely. I'm just trying to understand where we are today. And so because of the overwash in that area, the dune is actually Yes. A little higher in that area today than it is by, like, the 3,000 or south of that? Yes. Okay.

We have additional Both sides. It's gotta it's gotta be at least three foot because we had benches out there.

Yes.

The sand was over washed. Right. There's seats in the benches, if not over the back.

So if you wanna moving down

Let's move to the middle area then.

So in the middle area, so now you're into the single family homes. The grade is much more level, and it's around plus five. But there is a peak at 5.5, but it's a very different profile.

It's very flat and wide. So you have the space to do You whatever you

have an extra 50 to 75 feet of beach in this area. For comparison purposes, we drew additional sand over some of the existing vegetation. But here, you could easily plant add sand seward to the veg line and create a whole new dune and plant it and still have over 150 feet of beach.

Yes. You could have a plus nine, which would be an ideal dune elevation for future planning with mild slopes, with vegetation plans, with no issues. The only issues they are still manageable because you have the space, but what I'm trying to get to your attention is to get that dune in place, you need to have equipment in there. Currently, there's a lot of trees that will prohibit any kind of large scale projects to establish dune with proper slopes. And to do that, you'll need to remove and replace.

Some trees can be relocated, some trees might not. So it will be the critical area. And then if we don't have the space to make the dune to plus nine permit wise, we'll make it to plus eight or 7.5 and then make that the critical elevation and put that in the permit, but we're not going to go from 5.5 to eight in one increment. It will go in half a foot increments over projects that are needed at eight year cycles. So your beach doesn't need renourishment in cycles more than six to eight years.

So if you factor that in and you're going to go half a foot each time, that means you've got a plan over twenty five years.

Not my lifetime.

And

then one more. Again, plenty of beach width. Similarly here, we can you have a lot more options for what we're going to do here. We'll need the association in the clubhouse to chime in because they probably don't wanna plus eight Dune necessarily, but then again

But do they need the plus eight down there? They probably don't need it.

Well, and neither do the homeowners.

Because they have Sand Dollar Island. Correct. Yes.

Protecting them. Exactly.

Yep. So So I think some modest changes, you know, if you wanna go another half a foot or something. But I don't I don't see at this point doing anything extreme in front of the homes. I don't think the homeowners would want that. Right. Or No.

It's just for

We'll get it in the permit. Yes. But we won't act on it until it's necessary.

But we might raise it another half a foot in the next beach renourishment, which would not be significantly noticeable by homeowners. Homeowners.

2019, did anybody come out and say, oh my gosh. The beach is so much higher? Yeah. Half a foot is

Yeah. Okay.

Is not very noticeable. Yeah.

Okay.

I'll let you take this one.

All right. I think we've covered this in a lot of meetings of the value of the Sand Dollar Spit as a protection. For the main beach, it is a natural breakwater that protects most of the beach up to the Royal Marco Point. And then from Royal Marco Point, it's a little bit less exposure, but it still have exposure and that's why we have the tea groins and that's why we would we were focusing our critical design for hideaway with getting the dune reinforced and vegetated and having a permit authorization that allow us to elevate it in the future. For the bigger picture of why we need to do what we're doing is, as I mentioned earlier, Marco Island is very highly developed and you cannot now with the current environmental law do 10% of what is what was done in 1960s.

So we are really in a challenging conditions for this island because whether it's water quality, whether it's storm runoff, whether it's whatever it is, that level of development is not ideal. And then your biggest risk is that there are areas that are on the seaward side of that line because that line is the alignment of the straight coast. Right? So why did it why does it stick out that far? It's because there was used to be an inlet until the nineteen seventies in that location that created that headland.

That headland is not supported by anything like hard rock or anything that supports it. So naturally, that means if you let nature take its course, it's going to keep eroding at a high pace until it's confirmed with this line. What does that mean? What this means is that big part of the development will be encroached into the open coast. What does that mean?

Means we have to protect it. Like and and in that case, it's a lot it's it's it's a large undertaking if you allow it to just follow the the again, with the current environmental law that we have, you cannot armor unless you're vulnerable. So it will be piece by piece. When it becomes vulnerable, You qualify to put a seawall, but only if you were built beyond is it 1985 or '87 or the grandfather in? Right. I

think it's '85.

'85. So most of the buildings in Hideaway will not qualify. You would be like South Carolina or The Carolinas where you would have to allow the storms to go through your property because you're building your your your buildings are on pilings to maintain that. So to avoid that scenario, you need to work with nature to support the features that would protect those development that will be in that line of encroachment. If you can see in that line, you see that Cape Marco is also because of Kaxanpas Pass, it sticks out, but it does have a fort like armoring around it.

And the main reason, even though they were built after 1985, that line of armament that was already a seawall that was established by the military back in the day. So they just armored what was already armored. It's a grandfathered in armament, and there are still groins and breakwaters at the south end. And the main reason for those to be permitted is that that was at the end of a literal cell. And also when we designed those breakwaters, they were small and offshore to make sure that the sand will bypass to the shoals that are part of the protected wildlife area.

How did you get those breakwaters permitted? Is all because of the grandfathered in, you were able to add those breakwaters?

No. I'm talking about the seawall revetments and the reinforcement of the revetments.

Right. But then you added the breakwaters.

The breakwaters were added to anchor the 1991 beach fill or the main the the nourishment of Marco Island. There was a a lot of end losses at the end. So the the breakwaters were permitted and built in 1998. And

How did you get those permitted though? Because those are structures.

They were structures, but just the same way with your tea groins. We had to demonstrate to the state, number one, their need. So we first put the the two groins that were placed in there and then demonstrated that they're not adequate. And then after that, we put breakwaters that were 500 feet offshore and they were small with gaps to and that was to demonstrate that we need to kind of stabilize that point while allowing the sand to continue to flow so that the areas in Kais Island and the shoals still receive sand. That is it's not it's not acting like a jetty that would completely hold the littered drift.

You don't have to answer it now, but people are gonna say, well, why don't you do that up

But there are only there are only three small structures.

Okay.

And if we look at our area and the amount of protrusion out of that straight alignment, the rate of retreat that we have currently is 40 to 50 feet per year. That means if this distance is a little bit over 1,000 feet, it's it's in our lifetime that we will have those issues. So our best line of defense is to maintain the natural features that shelters that system. And the main opportunity and asset we have that most other areas don't is we have the same resources to recycle the material at a manageable cost to maintain those features. So it's no different than maintaining beaches in any other coastal encroachment areas, but this is lot more manageable because you don't have to truck in sand or get sand with hoppers like other parts of the coast where you have to get them from ten and twenty miles offshore.

So that's just the big picture of the value of the ecosystem as a coastal front for shore for coastal protection in addition to it being a valuable asset for tourism, a valuable asset for habitat for a lot of species in the system. So the conceptual alternatives, there is a lot of uninformed opinion that say, let nature take its course. Nature took its course repeatedly, and we were repeatedly able to reset it back. It's the same thing. If you get a dump of snow on your roof and you say, let nature take its course, if you're not if you don't deal with it, it's your roof is going to collapse.

So you just have to take action when you're dealt a tough hand from the if you're living in a floodplain or in a coastal zone, you have to be able to work with nature so that you don't allow nature to completely wipe out your properties. And in the meantime, engineering with nature and nature based features is an encouraged direction because it is adaptable, it is sustainable when you have the same sources. So what you see on this are two scenarios. The scenario on the left is the system without restoration. Let nature take its course.

So on the top panel to the left, you'll see we had mangrove shoreline near the picnic area. And then we have developments. This is just an illustration of a building. It's not a particular building. It's just the transect by the picnic area.

And then we have the lagoon and it had environmental resources and then we have the natural berm. Then after EIN, that BERM was pushed and lowered significantly. Then we intervened, but let's focus on if we didn't do anything. If we didn't do anything and we ran the model for the conditions of post in if we continue to not do anything, then all of the lagoon by the picnic area will weld onto the beach, the vegetation will be severely diminished and then we will continue to regress at the picnic area at a rate of 45 feet to 50 feet per year. And then when you get vulnerable, then depending on the space of your when the buildings were done, your options probably will be to add something like near shore structures to kind of that will be 25 to 50 feet from your building because they will not allow you to encroach into the open coast that will have potential for downdraft impacts.

Say say that again. So you would put

You would put something like T groin, like an like will will will come

You'll explain that?

Yes. We'll explain that. To the current plan that we have. The current plan what we have is that was the system before Een, and then Een pushed the profile inward. We dug the flow channel. We reconstructed a mightier berm, and that berm sustained four storms in two years and with very manageable scale wise of the restoration and without getting any sand from any outside source, that's where we are now. Yes, we're 50% of the design template, but we still we're holding the line.

So the red is the design template? Yes. Okay.

Thank you.

So this area here is what we're missing to meet the design goals, but we're still holding the line. We have a battered line, but we're still holding the line. We did not lose whether it's a sport analogy or nature analogy, we're holding the line. We still have the lagoon. We still have the coastal visitation.

And whenever that sand gets pushed into the flow channel, we can just keep flipping that cycle to give us that line of defense that we're not retreating consecutively. Because if you don't and if you allow it to retreat and you can just go look at Google aerials or anything, look at the retreat of that system. It was 2,000 feet width and now we're down to 400 feet. So hold the line at 400 feet or allow what went 50 feet per year until it becomes 20 feet from your building, and then you can demonstrate to the agencies that you need to add an erosion control structure that with it will come a much less functional ecosystem, a much less coastal defense system and a much less value overall.

Mohamed, what happens if this happens sort of at South Point southward, the end of what is now Sand Dollar Island would be somewhere around South Point. What happens to the remainder of Sand Dollar Island over time when

the This year?

Yes. What happens to that once the sand source from the south is Well,

the sand source for Sand Dollar Island comes from bypassing across the inlet. And there is an attachment part at the at the hook of the island where the booster pump used to be when we were doing the project. It's right at the middle of the island. That's why that section is the most stable section. But what would happen is this will close.

It will the when you have an island and you got waves attacking it, usually the ends will keep curling in. And then just like what happened with Coconut Island, if you recall, until it attaches to the shoreline. So and that was happening at south at at the north end where the sand spit was curling in and trying to close and attach. So it will attach from both ends and then it will keep getting smaller and retreat from the center, and then your coast will be lined up with this line. You see this black line?

That's the line that nature is trying to align with. So if you don't do anything, it's just like if you decide to just say, I'm not going to play with an offensive line, I'm just going to put my quarterback and everybody's gonna run to receive the ball. It's just it's not gonna work.

So the southern end of Sand Dollar Island would attach on Hideaway Beach?

Yes. Both ends would eventually attach.

Well, assuming we're continuing to dredge the northern end

Yes.

You would have the southern end would attach on Highway Beach. And then would would there be erosion? Would eventually that piece disappear, or would that stay? You know, like Coconut Island disappeared.

This is much larger than Coconut Island. Coconut Island basically was separating Capri Pass from Big Marco Pass for about forty years before it disappeared. So that would be kind of a similar timescale given the size of it. And it's much closer, so it doesn't have to travel as much. But in general, barriers always roll over. That's why you'll see the swales and the ridges because they're just every storm, every major storm rolls it over 50 feet, 10 feet, depending on the storm. They're rolling over towards land.

How much has our lagoon narrowed, say, in front of the clubhouse over over some period of time? Has that been stable? Yeah?

Yes. Okay. Yes.

So the likely scenario here is the southern end of the spit would collapse on Hideaway Beach, but the rest of the island for a considerable period of time would be relatively stable.

Yeah. You you'll your vulnerability in if you did not fix this scenario would start from South Point and the all this area eroded to the tree lines and then we we restored it a couple of times. So that too, that will eventually curl in and close and that will be a closed pond at the park. And then the trees will slow down the debris of the trees will slow down the progression. But if you need to see how fast how fast even with the trees that erodes, just look at Kaes Island.

Look at the formation down and see how islands move and evolve and the different shoals emerge. But you our challenge is that those buildings are not going anywhere. If the island moves south, north, east or west, that means a lot of those buildings will become exposed, which is the coastal encroachment 101 or the coastal squeeze, is that they were built fifty years or one hundred years before. And when they were built, the coast was at a different location. So if that's the case and if we remove this artificial barrier, those homes will be the first to be vulnerable because these are existing structures.

And even with those structures, those structures as designed, they're at plus one. And then you have a beach behind them. So they are designed to protect from the typical conditions, not the storm conditions. These structures are not built for storm service. They are built for the typical weather.

And then if that will become the westernmost point on the island and that level of protection may or may not be adequate. But the fact of the matter is all these structures are built in the recent coastal zone permitting that allows water to flow under the first habitable floor, and that would be the main restriction from an environmental permitting of why you can't have a seawall. And then when you're trying to permit these structures, you have to actually wait until conditions are really, really worse because you can't put these structures and impact seagrasses. You can't put these structures and impact mangrove shoreline. You can't put these structures and impact downdraft beaches if the modeling and the analysis shows that you have the potential for causing harm elsewhere.

So the burden for starting that path, it will mean that you have to do them one at a time and each time it has a really severe conditions that you don't have any resources that you're damaging because all those resources have already been wiped out.

And if just if you go south of there, we have more vegetation, but our picnic area would be eroded. But we wouldn't be able to do anything until erosion reached the homes along

the

road, and then you would add more Tigrades.

Yes.

So so our our objective is to move westwardly with Sand Dollar Island. Is that what we're saying?

Our objective is, if I go to this, is hold the line.

To hold the line.

Yeah. Hold the line. We can't

We we

we can't move the line

west You can, but at at a much higher cost. Yeah.

Okay.

Every time you move the line further west, you're you're fighting nature more than you can afford. As of now, we are

So now our objective is to maintain the bottom right then? Yes. Or whatever.

So that cycle and if we even look at the economics of it, as of now and with the work agreement with the county, your maintenance cost is almost per year, is almost in the same order of magnitude as you were paying to maintain the entrance of the lagoon, even though you're gaining a lot more benefit. So the goal here is to make sure that we have that sustainable cycle, the sand that we're getting from the offshore bore area, the sand that we're getting from the sand trap or the navigation channel, as we will come across later, is are all lifelines that are given to your community that most communities do not have. Michael can just if I I'll I'll pass it on to Michael.

If you leave that chart up one sec, I just wanna point out to John. Yeah. Go back one more. Or the one no. Sorry. Go forward two. There. Nope. Keep keep forward one.

Backwards or forward?

Back. Back, I guess. I want the one with the red line, the profile. That oh, oh. Nope. That one. Stay there. The red line on the bottom right is the design template.

Correct.

So as you can see, we're not currently at the design template for a variety of reasons I won't go into now. So to make this more stable, ideally, we would get it to the design template. But right now, we're a little too too too vulnerable to

My question was we don't wanna go any further west.

Just Yeah. Yeah. We can't afford to afford to do that, but we'd like to hold the line where we're at. It's kind of okay. Go ahead, Mohammad. So

as far as if we let nature take its course, you have to be prepared to let nature take its course until it encroaches on existing infrastructure. And then you'll go through a lengthy way of there's plenty of examples of vulnerable communities, whether it's in Volusia County, whether it's in Sarasota County, whether it's in roads that got undermined in Sarasota and Charlotte County with a lot of for example, in Sarasota County, they have a road that got undermined. They've been looking into it for twenty years, and now they're doing a temporary protection for the road and then a a plan to restore the damaged road that cost $40,000,000 for two miles of road on in Sarasota County because the problem was not they let nature take its course from the '80s to now until the erosion came to a point where 53 homes in Sarasota County were total loss in Helena Milton. So and it's still, it's just it's part of the reality that we have to deal with, but the good news for us is that it is not that cost prohibitive to do what we're doing versus other areas. And Michael is dealing with some of the actual large scale problems in Charlotte and Sarasota Counties, and he can just tell you the magnitude of volumes of sand and costs.

No. No. Are you talking to the mic? I'm I'm listening to my mic. No.

Listen, that'd be that'd be a part of the media blitz Yeah. Just what he's saying Right. How well off we might be.

Right.

So we were asked in conversation with Phyllis and also in some conversations at the different board meetings about these, I call them the purple cows, which are grandiose plans to hold Sand Dollar Island in place. Why don't we just put breakwaters offshore and then we don't have to do anything else? We'll put the breakwaters in and we'll be good. Or why don't we armor Sander Island? Just go ahead and armor it, and then it's not going to move.

And so we've had the privilege of working around places where we have these transgressive systems, these islands that are rolling over, where people have done what has just been described. And so Mohammed suggested maybe we show some of these pictures. So this is an island in Louisiana. And the island is transgressive. It does move. It protects, in this case, oil and gas infrastructure, and they armored the shoreline. They came in and rocked the whole shoreline. In this case, the state did the project, and the state owns the land.

Just go back one. Go back one. Just highlight where Iraq is and where it happened later.

Yeah. You don't have the cross sections shown? No. You didn't put the cross sections in there. All right. So So the first installation was done in the '80s. They did another one in the '90s. They did another one in the 2000s. Because the island is transgressive. It's moving, just like Channel Island has moved.

And so this line are the rocks from 1980. And this is the island. So let's go back in time. If we had put the rocks along the island in 2017 before Irma, the island is still going to move. These storm events are still going to move that sand. Those rocks are not going to stop the transgressive nature of Sandile Island. We would have an artificial reef sitting offshore of what is now Sandile Island. Breakwaters would have a similar response. The breakwaters would be designed to mimic the shoreline. They'd be segmented.

They'd be emergent. They would cost significant dollars, probably close to $1,000,000 per every two fifty foot long breakwater. And if you're trying to do 2,000 feet, $8,000,000 of rock for breakwaters of the magnitude that we're talking about and the water depths that we're talking about that would have influences on your wave action that would slow down the transgressive nature of Sandile Island. But it is still going to be transgressive. It may just prolong the life.

And so to talk about those in terms of function and cost, they are constructible. I don't believe they're affordable by this district. But more importantly, especially the shoreline arming where you would put the rocks along Sand Island, you don't own the land. You don't have riparian rights to do that. You are in a critical wildlife area adjacent to the Rick Riordea Bay Aquatic Preserve.

You are not going to be successful in permitting rock structures, whether it's shoreline armoring or rock breakwaters. Because when you're asked to do the alternatives analysis, and you come up with the fact that the most cost effective way is what Mohammad's already provided to this community, they're going to say, that's not justifiable. We're not going to let you put rocks along Sandar Island along this critical wildlife area that would interfere with sea turtle nesting and shorebird nesting. And segmented offshore breakwaters won't have a cost to benefit ratio that is going to be successful. So the solution that Mohammed has presented to you, withholding the line at this time, is the most cost effective way to protect this area.

Another solution that's been bandied about that's in a similar category is these vertical

I don't

know what they're made out of PVC or sheets that you you put in. I think they've done that mostly along rivers or not on the Open Gulf. But the same kind of thing, if you drove vertically sheets and covered them with sand, those sheets might stay in place, but the island would my would still migrate landward, and then you'd have buried sheets out in the gulf doing nothing for us at all. Right? It it's not gonna hold the island in place. Is that what you would say, Michael?

Correct.

Okay.

And you have the examples of Isle Capri and the the seawall that was across from Cartier Creek. What's the name of the building?

Villa De Marco.

That's Randy's idea.

Yeah. The the

That's what Randy wanted us to do.

The the Villa De Marco, the sheet piles were 30 feet and it the erosion it it it was once you put a barrier in the water and there's a lot of water and this vertical wall is around it, the scour goes to beyond what you imagine. So you put it in 10 feet of water and then after construction, you'll have a scour hole that would be 25 feet. Then you get hit with Irma, and then they have to replace the Villa De Marco sheet pile, and they use 50 feet. Mhmm. They use 50 feet long sheets so that the water does not be under the building.

So they're not sustainable. Because think about it of, as I said earlier, bringing a freight train to a stop. Okay? You have to start breaking a mile before you reach the station. The storm is like that freight train. Putting a vertical sheet wall sheet pile, meaning you've got that freight train and you're saying go full speed ahead and then stop at a point. It's Mark was saying you need cars. Yes. It will be a crash. Yes.

So you can't really put vertical structures. And then the idea of the breakwaters or the sequence of tea groins that we have on hideaway, if you put them in Sand Dollar Island, they will look something like that case in Denmark, where you basically have the structures as an infinite amount of structures that we believe it's unlikely to be permitted specifically because when you have that much of structures, they'll have downdraft impacts the adjacent shoreline. So nobody would allow you to do that, that will shift the problem down to Marco Beaches, and it would be extremely high cost plus the environmental constraints that will prohibit from so

this And if I look at that, I'd say, well, if we're going to do that, then you just wait and you put more tea groins on highway when it encroaches on infrastructure, our homes.

But even with those, you have to wait until it's really severe because and when you permit your building in front of the control line, you're already acknowledging that your first habitable floor is up and you're going to allow water to go right through. That is part of the deal of your

But do you think additional T groins are permenable? Like, for example, when conditions warrant it?

Well, it's it's not warranted now.

No.

And the environmental laws are kind of evolved.

No. But that picture you showed us of a two additional T groins by South Point in front of Sea Dune Lane, do you think when conditions warranted it that, that would be permittable?

Yes. If there is no sandy barrier here and if we are not maintaining it and then that there is no seagrasses here and there are no mangroves there, yes.

Right. For Were you beachfront property?

No. I just wanna understand in the extreme case, we're not gonna put T groins out on Sand Dollar Island. We couldn't get that permitted, and we're not gonna do that. But if we got to the point where we had this kind of erosion on hideaway property, whether it be the first area would be Seadou and Lane, but it could be areas further south as well in the future, then permitting additional T groins is what we would look at.

Yes, at a different time and different conditions. Yes. So that leads us to the recommendation that we kind of discussed the three of us is we have to look at holding the line and maintaining Sand Dollar Island, maintaining Hideaway Beach, establishing a dune line that can be incrementally improved to improve the resiliency and continue to get feedback from nature through a robust monitoring program. You have almost thirty years of monitoring that and a lot of wealth of institutional knowledge. I would say, I've been in this business for a quarter century and I don't recall being in any situation where we have where any community or any have two principal engineers that are independent and in agreement.

So I kind of saying it gives both of us the kind of the luxury of an instantaneous peer review and it also gives you basically the cut to the chase. These are your available options and it's while it is challenging, it is a lot easier than many other communities. And we from Irma to 2017 to 2025, eight years, we had a lot of storms. And if you drive around or walk around your your areas, you don't really have a lot of noticeable damage that you can see and say, this is the result of the storms. So you showed enough resiliency to withstand those storms.

And the whole purpose of this strategic planning is to understand what's ahead of us. And then the other important factor in getting support from the agencies for permitting and then if we're successful with the FEMA claim or what have you is to show that your systems are monitored and maintained. So it is in your best interest to continue to monitor and maintain your beaches, work with your other stakeholders to create a collective ownership of the system and have something like what we discussed yesterday about having a management agreement with the county, with the state on how we can sustain Marco Island as a littoral cell. The Michael and I discussed earlier the fact that the water weight committee have been on the receiving end of a lot of complaints about the navigation safety hazards. And there are a couple of spots in the path of the best water.

So this dotted yellow line is the path of best water if you're navigating through the entrance to Capri And Big Marco Pass. Those two solid lines are the act the authorized or the fed the main channel. And as of now, no one is navigating over it because of these shoals that can be four to six feet depending on the tide. So everyone is using best water. In coordination and discussions with the county and the coast guard, we recommended that we move the channel markers to the south in deeper water.

That yellow line is the minus 10 contour. And deeper water here is 11 to 12 from Datum, but at low tide, it would be less than 10 feet. And that's some of the bigger vessels have issues and some sailboats have issues with that. There are two spots at the two attachment bars that cross the delta. And we had discussions with the state on modifying our permit to include dredging of the expanded borough area that the county have added that lines up with best water.

Instead of dredging Collier Creek and dumping sand in the path of best water, we're recommending that we do geotechnical investigation and add this blue area to our sand sources that would also address navigation concern and maintain the navigation channel. And in those discussions, the state was very welcoming that kind of approach versus going through a lengthy three to five year plan of creating an inlet management study as far as the city or the county is concerned about navigation and then going for another few years to get permit authorizations for navigation dredging. The concept of beach management agreement was actually first suggested by the state that, that is something that would allow the state to be party to the agreement between the county and the city. And since and in that case, it will be an agreement that would encompass the entire island. And each entity, whether it's the city or the county, will kind of sign off on what the roles and the responsibilities are.

We already have a significant role in the monitoring and the management of the north part of the island through the tax district, integrating that with the interests of navigation, integrating that with the county's management of Kexampas Pass and Central Marco and South Marco will be in a beach management could be put in a beach management agreement that can also provide potential funding from the state. So that's the long, long term plan. And on the short term, as part of our strategic planning, we believe that it's in everyone's interest to add the navigation safety concerns to the matrix of the stakeholders and looking into modifying our permits to add that area. And I think the Waterway Committee is going to follow through with that line and then we'll see if that materializes, it will add another sand source to our sand spit management. And that's basically all what we

Well, we're not let's go back one slide. Go back one. If I am not mistaken, that area that is shown by the yellow dotted lot is Isle Of Capri separating where the Isle Of Capri is big market river coming through there. And that's the Isle Of Capri is we don't really care about the Isle Of Capri, do we?

No. I'm just this line is just showing you the the the path that has the deepest water.

Well, the blue line, I don't care about. That that's we don't we don't have any control over that at all.

No. No. We don't. What I'm saying, this gray area is our offshore borrow area.

I understand that.

That's our source of sand. So and this area here is permitted by the county.

We'd like to have that removed. I know because it's good.

No. No. No. We're not removing it. What we're saying is it's an opportunity.

I'm saying the county would like to have that eventually.

Yes. It it is gonna be counties.

That's the navigation channel. That's the one they don't wanna block a navigation channel. But the other thing then I want you to go back one more slide. Guess there's one more. Alright, well that is a good plus to stop. I have got two new proposed T Grinds that I thought we were finished putting T Grinds south, But I know that somebody building bought a a a big lot.

Madam chair, we have two minutes.

Right. Right. So we need to wrap this up. The our time ends in a minute and a half. The clock for the meeting ends in a minute and a half. So you have about

thirty minutes. These are not proposed now. These are just for these are kind of What's

those proposed TGOIs?

No. No. These are not we're not recommending this. This is just like a a fallback position if all else fail. These are if all else fail scenario.

What has happened there though is that the that house you're showing with the blue roof is a huge, huge house that was just being built now. It has disappeared now. Anyway, why don't I draw it?

I think the meeting is going to end because our allotted time for the meeting is So I think we will take this discussion. You can talk with Mohammed offline about your concerns. So I just wanna say thank you for the to the team for all the work that went into this today. I do think we have some additional work before we go to the hideaway board. I still would like to see one chart with a matrix of all of those other alternatives, their permitability, and their cost because we need to address that. And I think your comments on that were very good, but I think we need one chart that lists out all of the thing all of the other options as as crazy as they might.