County Council - public_hearing

Okay, just make sure your mics are on when you're talking because it's very hard to hear most of you when I try to go back and listen. We're good.

Well, this session of the DeKalb County Council meeting in order September 2nd, 2026 will begin with an opening prayer by Amy Prosser.

Let's pray. Heavenly Father, Lord, we just thank you for the opportunity to serve. And Lord, we ask that you would give us wisdom today as we do just that. And I just pray for clarity and transparency and just clear thinking, Lord, from you that you give. We ask that you said in your word, if we ask for wisdom, you would give it to us. And so we're asking here today. And Lord, I'm thinking just of some families who are grieving in our community today and Lord, we just ask that you would give them comfort and just be with us again today. Lord, we pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

Amen. Please stand for the pledge. OK, so we're ready to begin.

All righty. Susan? So OK, so in your packet, you will see that Jody has everything labeled very nicely for us. Have put together the very first green tab the budget questions, so I have went through And I have listed out the different questions that we need to answer To be able to decide If our budgets going to balance and how we want to attack it So I don't know if you guys want to to read through this if you want to take a moment and read through it and how you want to attack it other than that I mean I pretty much have it spelled out and we'll take I don't know if you guys have questions and I just like to add this is probably the most concise

bit of information I've ever seen on a budget hearing here. You've addressed a lot of questions and a lot of things up front here. And if the council wants to take a few minutes to look through it, or Susan can go through it with us here, but things are pretty well spelled out with this here. This is really a nice job you both, you did there, so thank you. We're going to have Susan go through it. You want to peruse through it on your own? It's your pleasure. Susan, if you want to just start, then we'll go get started.

OK. So back in January, there was a discussion on the facilities director and emergency management director. Commissioners had come, requested that the facilities director get an additional $10,000 for the different duties that he was taking on. He was going to be in charge of like, all the maintenance stuff, and we're all to go to him. I'm trying to think what they actually called him. But anyways, so in January, council approved that. That changed his classification from B, no, yeah, from an EXE B to an EXE A, which changed his wages from $76,517 up to $83,456. So HR had provided us a bigger email. I just took the snapshot of where she detailed out the two positions side by side, and made myself a note back in January that we needed to cover this budget time. So we need to decide if you're leaving facilities director at EXEA. If so, are you going to do anything with the emergency management director? The factor points, The emergency management is much higher than facilities director. They have different duties, things like that. So that's one discussion that needs to happen.

Did we go through? I don't remember.

And update the facilities director job description. They both did. I feel like we did.

Yeah, we did.

And actually, myself and Jim Miller and Dottie had some discussions with Jason on this. The whole thing started because it was referenced during the commissioner's meeting Where they were talking about giving him the additional salary was that since he was going to be 24 accessible 24 hours seven days a week That that's certainly what Homeland Security has. I mean they were using they were using Jason as a comparison and Going over and above what Jason responsible for and has to do for his job. And that became a whether or not that was fair or that was the correct comparison made.

The WIS study still had him at 25 even after the job description update. I don't remember that.

That was the update.

Do we need a motion to either keep it here, or deny, or?

I think that's what Susan's looking for.

Well, discussion of, yeah, I mean, you guys need to decide thoughts on, yeah, the options. And do we have to decide it right now, or, I mean, is this something we talk about and just think about and come back later?

We can come back later to it. It's just something that we need to answer before we get done these two days so that I know which direction to go with those wages. Okay, so the next one is Mark Olivero at Budget Presentations. He explained that we weren't quite in compliance with his pilot program that he gets where he gets 40% reimbursements. And he has two misdemeanor attorneys that the wages needed to be increased to that of his felony attorneys. So it is possible, because we're not in compliance, that they could remove us from that program, which means we will no longer get a 40% reimbursement. And that 40% reimbursement is on everything, not just wages. So Cheryl Bradford over there is very good about talking with me and with AP and going through different claims, like if there was... something done to the building, like a building maintenance or repair, she can claim part of that because their office is in that building. So she goes through and gets all the reimbursements that she can. So that would put those two attorneys, moving them from 39918 up to the 57864. So one, are you guys going to approve them to change that

we are in compliance for 27 and if so are you wanting to also change it currently to be in compliance now the we struggled to get into that that program that reimbursement program and I think since we agreed to be in the program we do need to be in compliance and I believe that the An attorney is an attorney is an attorney. I mean, so the other ones are making the higher amount, and moving these guys to the higher amount I don't think is an issue. We're in the program. We're getting reimbursed. And I think in order to make that successful, because the whole point of this pilot program is for the state to permanently do this for all of the public defender's offices in the state. as a reimbursement. And as we move towards the future, there are many different programs that we would like to see the state take over, the state should take over. This is just one of them. So the fact that we're getting 40% reimbursement, and we're getting 40% reimbursement on the felony side. So that has been great for me.

benefit to us so I would suggest that we move them up now I can tell you that since January of this year now mind you the January receipt would have been for quarter three of 25 so far this year we have received back over three hundred and forty thousand dollars

And Rick, you're talking about for 26 this year and 27.

Yeah, if we're not in compliance with the program that we voluntarily joined, we need to get in compliance with it now. So I would make a motion that we move those attorneys up to the mandated rate to be in compliance, the program to be in compliance now, and that we make them at that rate for next year.

I just had a question. Why did we have the salary so low? 39. For a full-time attorney, that seems very low.

Because we could.

Are they full-time or part-time?

I think most of them are part-time.

I think they are.

Even the others are part-time. What did he call them? The felony attorney? I think all of the attorneys are considered part-time. But Right and I don't know they qualified it remember but And some of them was it last year the year before they were able to offer him insurance My other struggle to get attorneys in his department there so and without the insurance piece every every every county is struggling to get attorneys

Do we have a second for Rick's motion? Okay. Any further discussion from the council? Okay, hearing none, we'll call for the question. All those in favor of approving the increase for the 26 and 27 budget for the felony side of the attorney, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is carried. Okay, Susan, thank you. Community corrections.

All right. So we'll turn the page. All right. So for community corrections, Michelle had requested that we cover out of County General about $120,000. And I listed out what they're for. Some of it's building maintenance supplies, repair maintenance supplies, some other service fees. That would be like if we pay a company, like if we need plumbing work or things like that. Then she had in there telecommunications, liability insurance, utilities, and then actual building maintenance, and then some professional contracts, which would be like maintenance agreements, things like that. So I have them in. I have them planned for county general in my advertisement that I did. So they're in there, and they're in all the values that I have figured for the cash reserves of county general. So I just need to know whether you guys are approving those to be paid from County General or if you are having her pay part of them from hers or not any from County General or how you want to do it. Now, just so we're all on the same page, if you approve it for County General, any of the building maintenance supplies and the building maintenance services, those kinds of things, would actually get added into Larry's courthouse budget as the maintenance supervisor and not left per se for community corrections actual budget.

If we do that, and I know that that was the desire of the commissioners was to create an overall, an overseer for all of our buildings. Did they get the program that I believe that the Sheriff's Department is using so that we can track what each building is costing us?

Yep, we just got that.

So it is up and running.

What program is that?

Well, one of the issues of our capital was the fact that we were having a very difficult time tracking maintenance records for any individual piece of equipment the Furnaces the air conditioners the generators all this and the Sheriff's Department purchased a computer program by which they do track all of that and They took it to they took it to the commissioners and I believe the commissioners asked Larry to use that program also, so now I We will have good records on the equipment, the length of time it's been here, how much it's cost us, all of this. And that's been my only concern. I would like to see, for community corrections, as important as it is to us, we need to continue to support it. But we need to separate it in some way because the state needs to be responsible for part of it, those grants. But they need to be responsible for the actual programming and maybe the employees. We certainly need to be responsible for the buildings, because that's every other building that we're responsible for. So I'd like to see us make these suggestions.

So one, I'm hearing that we do have a new maintenance thing or some kind of a computer program. You said Brightly or... which is fantastic. I love that. And so how's Larry adjusting? Is he doing okay with that new program?

Evan's doing the... The objection has always been the amount of time that it takes to put the information in. That Larry didn't have time to do it or... And I'm not putting Larry under the bus. And it goes to any of these kind of programs. I don't have time to sit there and enter all this stuff. Well, unfortunately... It's all information we need to have. We've got to take the time.

Larry didn't have other employees under him.

No, no, he didn't. He's got Evan.

That makes sense. That's true. There's no way. But, yeah, I mean, it's really, I mean, like we just, within the last month, like I don't even know how much they've got set up yet to know how they're doing. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's new, new.

All these questions we have every time they come and ask for additionals, because of this being broken or that being broken. We have no clue what's gone on behind the scenes over the past years. This will help fix that.

Because Evan, that's really good that he can help with that. That's wonderful. So Rick, you made the comment that you wanted us to, that the state should be responsible for the programming and the people. So are you seeing something that in the future that's going to happen? Because right now we're covering both.

Correct. Well, but a lot of it's through the grant.

As in county general covering? Yeah. We're covering some wages, not all of them. Okay. And some insurance, but not all of it. Not all of it. We're covering some of it to help them, and that was mainly to help them be able to get raises like the rest of the county does. Right. Because they were very, very, very far behind. Sure.

So we're not covering total wages, just a sum. I think what we're trying to say here is that all of the county buildings that we own, the county itself should be taking care of them, which is absolutely, our job is to take care of the infrastructure of all the county buildings. That makes sense to me completely.

So if you decide to do this $120,000, then that will actually give Michelle $120,000 that she could, use for what she couldn't, or she could maybe even take back some of the wages that we were trying to cover in County General. I don't know what her plans is for that because she got cut so much this year for the grant funding, but it would give her some money to be able to utilize it.

And just as a side note to the cuts that the state has given, it's already been said that when the legislature cut the And I won't say it was just community corrections. When they cut some of that type of funding, they did not expect the draconian cuts that the governor's office did. That there was no attention paid to program success or failure or it was just across the board. So that is something the legislature is going to deal with in January.

And going back to kind of Larry this this really falls under his jurisdiction now that this is one of the things that the commissioners wanted is to make sure that Larry was overseeing all of the buildings including this one, so Further questions.

Oh, I were talking about community Corrections I did Have some communication with Michelle and she they were not awarded any funding for their pretrial services which I She filled out grant application for IOCS for $109,000, and they did not get any of that. So I think anything that we can do. Yes. She has completed an opioid grant application to cover part of that, but it can't cover certain things. So she's hoping to maybe get approved for that, but the pretrial services, not get approved and that is a successful program yes that's kind of where the state from what I understand is where you know this is you you take these you offer these pretrial services and this programming to help people and now you're taking that money away so where did does it come from to help with the rehabilitation and getting people back on track

If we don't rehabilitate them, they're liable to end up back in jail or back in community corrections anyway.

And I can tell you from working with Michelle and Shannon out at community corrections, they stretch every single dollar, every nickel they can out there and move around. I mean, we've all heard stories of Michelle climbing up in the attic and, you know, trying to troubleshoot issues. They just, they do what they can with the grant funding that they're given and

only be stretched so far so I know that they'll be appreciative for anything that we can do to help them well sounds like the money is definitely needed it's kind of a push any other questions on this do we have a motion to approve the money that these funds be paid from County General the hundred and twenty thousand

I'll make the motion.

Okay, we have a motion by Amy Demski. Do we have a second? I'll second. Second. I'll second. By Amy Prosser. Any further discussion? We'll call for the question. All those in favor of approving the funds of $120,000 be paid from County General signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is carried.

All right. Our next thing goes kind of along with this is... Believe it was Rick asked me to all of the building repair and maintenance amounts that other departments requested into the courthouses budget and So in total So I believe I had 300,000 already in for courthouse. And then there was another 199,500 that would come from other departments. So if we do that, then the lighted fund would be able to save 150,000. The public safety would be able to save 2,000. Skip community corrections. Highway would save 5,000. That community corrections one was for that amount however it would be saving 120,000 because you approve what happened up front up top so in this one I need to know whether that is what you want to move forward with like we just you guys kind of just discussed I know where to make these changes again this

puts the money in a place where Larry has access to it since Larry's going to be responsible for the buildings. But the downside was, but is no longer there, the ability to say this expense was for community corrections or the highway department or the courthouse. Now we can, with this program, we can know exactly what we're spending to maintain our buildings by building, not just as a general number.

Yes, I'm sure. I'm still not sure. All of these, like the lit economic development, public safety, the income, the highway, you want to put all of these, are these normally maintenance?

So those are the amounts that those departments budgeted in those funds for building maintenance and repair. That don't normally come from county general. Courthouse maintenance is a county general department where these other ones are not. So like the project income one, that one you can kind of just ignore because of what you just approved above. So the other one, so highway would save $5,000. Lit public safety would save $2,000. I can tell you that lit public safety, that is a fund that we want to spend down as close to zero as possible each year. That shows that we are needing, we need that rate and that income. And I know that this year we are not able to do our share of pension from there because we're getting... getting low and the needs that central dispatch has. And then, oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. The economic development, that's the commissioner's lighted fund. That one is, I'm not going to say it's low, but that one will most likely be going away, and that is the one where they're paying those bond payments for, for the highway, which is like, on $830,000 a year. So that's up to you guys.

of those departments maintenance budget and putting it into Larry Larry mm-hmm. What's it? I? Mean this question I have is what is the advantage? Is there an advantage to that? How does that help us?

Because Larry's now in charge of all of it. So all of our needs Everybody needs to be going through Larry. So Larry would know whether he's got money to be able to fix something or not fix something and

We still need the ability to track it as to what building it's being spent on but Public safety that that fund is going away. It's just gonna be gone and That $5,000 out of highway We take it out of there. He's gonna have money to spend for the highway, right? We're gonna make that a general fund so rather than Putting it getting highway money and spending it on the building He'll be spending it on the roads, I hope.

Right. Does it take, like, every dollar they have? Because I can imagine Ben, knowing who he is, he's got to fix a toilet. He's going to go buy the thing at the hardware and put it in the toilet himself. You know what I mean? He's not going to even call Larry.

Well.

Do we have to call Larry now when it's something a little like that? I mean, you know what I'm saying? It seems kind of.

That's what the commissioners are pushing.

That's what the commissioners would like.

one person to be in charge of all the buildings.

So that everybody, so that he knows what's all going on. Now, I can tell you that I'm sure if Ben has somebody that could do the work that Larry, I don't know, Larry can do a lot, but he couldn't or maybe didn't have time right that minute, we're going to let them do the work.

Where would that money come to buy that?

Larry. Larry.

So Ben would have to request it from

I'm just trying to I don't make their own jobs harder It wouldn't necessarily and they would just be sending the invoice You're almost looking at Larry they're looking at Ben as an anomaly though what we're trying to get away from is Michelle who is a directional person Being a maintenance person or a building facilitator We're trying to get away from Dottie or or somebody over at the Health Department Having to deal with their building issues. Those are not what they're trained for. That's not what their background is Ben is kind of the exception. Yeah, I mean he's he's got more he's got other skills but I think they can work it out. I think between Larry and Ben, they can work it out.

Well, and if we remember right, during our budget presentations last year, I can't remember which department asked, but there was an apartment that asked for a specific five-year capital needs for renovations and whatnot. And all of this was brought up from you all that said, how would, let's just say, Dana know who the best company is to use for painting? Who we have good, you know, quality service or the best prices. And that's why... I think that a lot of this was asked to do also. So that way, Larry knows those things. And if not, he can find out.

As long as the money's still available there for them to do repairs. Yeah, for sure. As long as it, I mean, like you said, Larry and him can work out who's going to physically fix whatever that is.

And I can tell you, much like the jail maintenance guy, the jail maintenance, Larry, Ben, like, we save a ton in labor paying people because they do so much like I've had a transfer I'm trying to think I've had it I can't I've had a transfer from like services up to supplies because we needed to be able to buy the supply because our guys were doing the work oh I mean it's a win-win for all when it's over there in Larry's budget will it be designated that there's five thousand

Available for the highways is just all in one lump sum We just don't want to create a situation where they're all Every department's trying to fight for that big chunk.

You know, I mean well do what they had before now That's gonna be well, there's a hundred ninety thousand there I want twenty of that hundred ninety instead of five and from what I understand that is with the commissioners and how they taught That is what Larry would will be in charge of okay, I Susan requested new desks for her office, but somebody else requested something else that is a little bit more important than Susan's desks. And so Larry will have to determine the higher priority.

That's a good plan.

And not that decorating matters, but it also may keep the courthouse and other buildings using similar things. So instead of each office having its own

For desks, maybe it would help keep things where it's more consistent from office to office to office Not necessarily the layout but the desks, you know those types of things and if you look back at When each one of the departments each one of the courts and prosecutor and everybody were buying All of their legal materials Independently we were spending an exorbitant amount of money We made them go to one account and we got discounts and everything else and it was coordinated by the prosecutor's office. I think one of the judges is doing it now, but it was coordinated by the prosecutor's office and we saved money because we had one account and we were getting those volume discounts. And before, how many, did we have a number of Amazon accounts? Or was it all being bought through? Because we had talked at one time about getting a purchasing manager that would control all of this and keep it all centralized.

I have it, as far as I'm aware. I have it all that everybody that is using Amazon is using it through the DeKalb County account, as they should. But we did have a problem with multiple people using their personal accounts or their business accounts to buy things and then submitting us an invoice to pay for it, which is difficult because the product could have went for their business, but I don't have any way of proving that. So as of now, everybody has requested a link through me and we've got them all on ours. Which also is nice because AIC has something set up with Prime and They pay the prime membership, and all of us AIC counties that have the Amazon, we get all the benefits and don't have to pay for the prime.

Just looking ahead, a five-year plan, if you want to call it that. As the county grows in demand for these types of services, are we eventually, most of us will not be here, will we be looking at an additional personnel, additional person here with Larry? Just to be thinking ahead. Nobody gets blindsided because I can see there's Lots more possibly here.

I could almost see them having a Like administrative person to help them With all this with the bills because I do the invoices like he submits the receipts invoices and everything to me and then I Put down where we need to pay them from and I send them to AP. I could easily see, not that it would necessarily have to be a full-time, like I could easily see them needing at least a part-time administrative assistant just for all the bookkeeping paperwork stuff. Who then could possibly also do that system and then it would give the three maintenance guys the time to do their maintenance work.

Just want to put that out there so nobody gets blindsided down the road But I can see as we grow that need could be a possibility Okay, put your pleasure on this one I'm happy to move forward with that emotion

I will make the motion that we approve moving the $199,500 into the new or into the regular repair and maintenance account. Into the courthouse.

Into the courthouse's building maintenance account. Courthouse building.

Well put, Amy. Thank you. Whatever Susan just said. We have a second. Okay, any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Motion is carried.

Who seconded that?

I did. Rick did. Susan, sheriff pension funding.

All right. So this is more of just an FYI. I said earlier that public safety cannot fund the sheriff pension. So for this year, I've got $100,000 coming out of the riverboat. we haven't used riverboat for a while for pension because we've been saving it and then i have the 724 143 000 coming out of their county general budget right now the sheriff pension trust fund like the past few few years we've done maybe like 50 000 out of there right now there's 154 000 in there so we don't use it for 27 then it can continue to grow and then in 28 there would be a bigger amount that could be used to put towards the pension. So that was more just a FYI.

Or if you guys have questions. How is money paid into the pension trust fund? Is it by us putting it in there? No, it's the, I think it's from the deputy's paychecks. Okay. I'm sorry, the sheriff pension. I'm just reading. Safety cannot fund the sheriff pension as it has in the past. And I was just curious.

Lit public safety. The past few years, we have paid the full amount out of lit public safety. The full $800,000. But it can't do that this year.

How come?

Because we've It had a very large balance before, and so we've used up enough of the cash reserves, which we wanted to do because we want that one to go down, and then central dispatch needs most of it.

And we have always, for the last 10, 12 years that I've been here, had to pull large amounts of money from other sources because that particular fund never, never has enough.

Are there additional funds in the riverboat that we could use instead of coming out of County General?

There's not a lot. I did just look. It looks like they also put their sheriff warrant payments that they get into that fund into. Right now, we have $835,476.

Is the riverboat fund going to disappear?

No.

And I know of. Okay. I didn't know how long that was going to stay out there.

I don't know how many of them are on the boat anymore. Well, that's it.

You know, I think you've got the one maybe up at Michigan City or Hammond. I don't know if the blue chip is gone, but the one down at Rising Sun and that, that's all gone. And so I don't know. That's why I was asking the question is they're all land-based anymore.

So.

I'm just asking what why would we not use more of riverboat and less County General or half-and-half or Well in reality County General should have been funding the pension the entire time, but we've not been able to do that We've been trying to find different places for that to come. Okay The riverboat

Just thinking about County General as we keep adding things to it. Right. Should we spend down the riverboat? I don't know. I'm just asking the question.

That would be up to you guys. It looks like we've historically just kept saving it. So in case we couldn't fund the pension, we would have it to be able to do it. We haven't used it since it looks like a little bit of it. The most we've ever taken out of it at one time was $197,000.

How much do we have in that now currently, Susan?

$834,000. Yeah, I think you said $835,000. Yeah, $835,000.

Before we have a new riverboat fund.

Yeah.

You know, that's a nice reserve to have. That's not restricted really per se is it on that? That's that's a good That's a good case reserve to have in the in case things would really fall apart I'd be personally I'd be reluctant to take more out of the riverboat fund because it's just that's just a nice Piece of money to have back there if we would ever need it. We can always spend it down later That's not a problem, but we're sure not going to build it up as long as we feel like in County General.

We're not overloading

The reason we you know in past years and I'm talking ten years ago Eight years ago The reason it came from all these other places is we just did not have the money in County General. It was not there So it had to come from all these other sources So do we want to just

Leave this like it is and move on.

That was an FYI unless you're wanting to change it. Now, if you're wanting to change more in the riverboat, that's going to be an additional appropriation because I only advertised for $100,000.

So the $835,000 is the current balance in riverboat. If we take the $100,000 out, then that would affect that balance, the $735,000. Right. We get money put in that yearly?

Yes.

How much do we get in there?

I can see that fund going south, eventually the riverboat fund, because there are no Marlena riverboats. That's why I say that's a nice piece of change.

This year, actually, we got...

Two hundred and three thousand is it normally even though it's called riverboat are we getting money from Just the casinos in general. I don't know goes into that money into that. I don't know either.

I don't know either Like last year for 25 we didn't even get a hundred thousand So it's all different I It says the state shall distribute the wagering taxes set aside for revenue sharing to the treasurer of each county that does not have a riverboat according to the ratio that the county's population bears to the total population of the counties that do not have one. So it looks like it's just riverboat money and then distributed to those that don't have it.

We really don't know how much we could get on a yearly basis. It's just random. Right.

It's available if we need it. I think it all depends on how many people gamble, I guess.

Yeah. That's fine. Okay. Let's move on then to the Commissioner's Lighted Fund.

Okay. So starting in 2020, the Commissioner started funding Some of the highway operations out of lighted they began funding nine hundred thousand and since they've moved up to a million There that's the fun that pays their bond payments and the highway bond is not set to be paid off until June of 2023 33 33 eaters Franklin they had a note to me that said they don't feel that light they feel that Lighted would be unfunded with what the commissioners have requested, but I checked on that and I'm pretty sure they didn't have They didn't account for the two million dollars that is invested, which is why I think they thought that And they agree. So anyways Right now I have a million dollars for highway operations budgeted in both the lighted fund and County General and So before you make that decision, that decision is probably going to come a little bit later. So we need to keep in mind that those are in both places. Eventually, and it could even happen sooner than later, the commissioners are not going to be able to continue paying almost $2 million out for highway, $1 million for operations, and $830 for bond payments. So that's... to keep in mind. Now, if we skip the bottom there, if you go to the back of the page, I show all the different scenarios for the cash reserves percentages compared to what I have there. So like the very first one, it has general paying for a million dollars for the highway, Share of pension and all the building maintenance that we are moving. It's I have it in as Last year's wages unless they're like probation and they have a state mandate that they have to increase that we have to pay it Those have been increased. So if I have all that in there And as is leaves a 28% cash balance and then you can see what it would be for two three and four now each one after that so the second one is a We did everything at the top, but we did not fund the million dollars of highway operations What those percentages would be and then the third one is if we did 500?

Thousand of highway out of County General and 500 out of lighted what those percentages would be This is for 27 yes budget and the commissioners will still have the lighted fund in 27, correct? It's not till 28 that the lighted fund goes away as of right now. Yes, I So technically, they could still fund it out of lighted in 27?

They could. It's just going to take more away from their balance to have back to pay for those bond payments. Because as of right now, unless Rick knows, but as of right now, we have not been told if legislation is going to do something special if a county already has a bond in place that's being paid by lit revenue. We haven't been told whether that's all have to be absorbed someplace else or if there's going to be something special so that we can still make those payments.

So they don't feel like they're going to have the money to pay both in 27?

They will in 27. It'll just take more away from their cash balance to be able to have the bond payments for a couple years out.

I think that was the desire was to keep as much money in that lighted fund Pay those bond payments into the future because if if we if they don't have the money in there and the bond payments who are going to have to come out of either their highway funds or the general fund and if we don't have it and We don't make provisions to pay it the DL GF will mandate that we pay it and we will have no choice and Just I guess I'm not clear on why we're moving that million dollars Right now I guess to prevent them still having that million dollars in Three years from now or four years from now or five years from now. Well, they can make those bond payments It's all to preserve the bond payments into the future And the recommended cash balance that Jeff has always been 30%. And we struggled for many years getting there. And there was a nice article in the paper yesterday by Representative Smaltz on exactly why the state maintains a cash balance in reserves. because you do if if the bottom falls out and if we're going to depend on local option income taxes in the future for our for our payments are functioning and the economy goes to the seller and we don't get those funds in through local option income tax then you're going to need that cash balance to make those those mandatory payments. I mean, you're going to, you know, typically you're going to stop buying things, you're going to lay people off and whatnot, but you need to have funds to go into the future if the bottom falls out. And if we're going to depend on local option income tax for funding the operation, we need to definitely have that cash balance there.

Well, and Rick, there are some counties that are in that precarious position right now that if that happens, I mean, it They're in really serious financial difficulty.

Absolutely. And we aren't there because of all the work that this council has done over the last 15 years trying to get us out of that hole and to make us so that we can move into the future.

I'd be curious to know how much that, I mean, we're adding then another million dollars to our budget. That's a lot of extra dollars. and what does that look like then for our taxpayers yes I would want to know you know what was last year's total budget and then what would our total budget then look like this year at the end when we kind of finish and look at okay well how do we How do we look at this? I mean, if we're adding another million, are we looking at cutting somewhere else? Or are we looking at just increasing the budget by another million dollars? Just questions. I just want to make sure that we have clear about before we move forward.

Some of it will just come from the cash balance, the cash reserves that we currently have over the years. How much cash reserve do we have? At this exact moment? Is that what you're asking?

Yeah. We're close to that 30%, if not a little more than that. Yeah, that's what I thought.

I understand the savings part, but I'm looking at the total budget dollars. What does that look like?

cash you're saying some of it could we could just spend out of the cash reserve we've talked about that before yeah because I've gone over very well okay so at the beginning of this year we after accounting for any encumbrances that we needed from last year to this year. Yep. Our money moved to rainy day. After all of that, we began the year at 39%.

We had room to. But what is that in dollars? We had room to move.

That is $13,668,032.

So $13 million in cash reserve at this point. Yeah. From the beginning of the year. From last year? Yeah. $13 million.

OK, so we look at our, if we compare our Form 3s, which that would not be what we adopted. That would be what we requested, and if you remember, I do request extra in case you guys do increases or like a million dollars. I've got it in two different funds. So if we look at that, last year our estimated max levy was $14,385,295. This year it is $15,000.

247 038 that that take into account the 6% MLG of that is That take that into account I'm not sure Which I think you know A lot of counties are needing to use that whole 6% to catch up with where they were or where they need to be. But I think for us, I think that's really excessive.

Our total budget last year was $46,582,743. Is that sound right? With a general fund at $26 million. Are you in all the funds or? Yeah, I just typed in what was the county budget for 26.

OK. When you talked about the cash reserves, was that strictly in the general fund, or there's still carryover money from 911?

On the back of this, if you look at number four, number five, so number four, they

They talk about the other funds When we talk about our cash reserves It's not always just the general fund there some of the other funds have money that carries over from year to year and which is noted in that number.

Okay, so Amy, for 2026, every single fund that we appropriate was $62,121,884. Remember again? $62,121,884.

That's every single fund. That's not just funds that are levied.

Just the general fund was 26,894,406 of what was approved of general. So on our budget order for 26, so these would be funds that are levied. It would be, it would be, these are the ones DLGF looks like. Rainy day, general, reassessment, our debt funds, highway, health, CUMBRID, CUMCAP. So in total, for all those, Our tax rate was 0.3.

You didn't listen to Jody.

But it's not Dave. No, it's not me.

Was it Dave again? Yeah.

We were all so.

Got to make sure the alarm goes off. I've been missing it.

That's all right.

That's all right. So the certified levy was $13,684,487, which equals. Point three seven seven eight four dollar rate certified rate For general fund we certified the 26 million and we only had to levy the $10.8 million. We don't levy for that full...

Sounds like one that you maybe need to think about and kind of think through and figure out where we're at at the end of the day. I don't feel comfortable making any decisions about it right now.

And we don't, you know, one of the things that we don't have to do, the commissioners did the million dollars. Correct. It doesn't have to be a million dollars. Maybe we only do $500,000. Maybe we do $700,000. You know, that... That's up to us to decide if we're going to move it over to the general fund. Because I would prefer, I personally would like to make sure that we maintain as much of the highway bond funding in that lighted fund as possible going into the future. Because we don't know where we're going to be three years from now based on the results of SB1. So we have the ability right now to save the money and make those payments into the future. And if we have to adjust it, then after four or five years, we have to adjust it. But I don't want to leave us strapped. Because we've got the money now. Let's don't just spend it. Let's try to put it back in reserve to prevent us from having to dig deeper.

Does the bond payment stay the same over its entirety? Or does it, as you pay the debt down, does the payment go down? Okay.

The 830 was like the average. I mean, it might be 828.

Sure. Okay. I just want to add, I agree with Rick. This is one of the few times that we have to control our own destiny here by keeping this money in reserve. This can all disappear here. Within the next legislation or two and I guess I'm old school You can't keep enough in reserve because over the years I've seen us where things have tanked and we've been afloat because of Prudent reserves from previous council, but I agree with you 100% We need to keep as much in reserves as we can again I'm just I'm very concerned about where where these local option income taxes are going because

Yes, if we have massive layoffs and and things like that the funding is going to go down and The LGF is going to mandate that we make the payments whether we got the money coming in from lighted or not So I would rather I would rather have control of it I don't want the DL GF mandating what our property tax is going to be because they have the ability to Take that property tax right back up again to make those payments.

Well the other thing to keep in mind here is automation increases You may have a smaller workforce out there. We don't know five years from now. What's that?

We're seeing it already With a lot of places there so that that tax rate can come down We're probably feeling pretty good here because we do have such a low employment unemployment rate there are places in Indiana that don't have that and I said I've I've with a couple of counties that are really struggling because they don't have any money in their general fund. And they've got a lot of, you know, they've got employees, they've got other expenses, and they don't have a lot of industry. You know, we're lucky in that we have a large amount of industry and all with good employment. And we're bringing in more. But if the bottom falls out on that, We're in trouble.

Yep.

What would the council's pleasure be here?

Well, I don't know I don't know if you guys can actually make that decision right now until you discuss other things The last thing on my little sheet was I wasn't really sure how to do this but Bob I think asked me what the ongoing sunny meadows costs would be and Um, so I just gave you what we have. So we have NIPSCO, Stan Energy, and the City of Auburn. So I just gave you the amounts of what it's cost for those periods of time there. I don't know what else we would have. Are we still mowing out there? So, I mean, if you go on that route, then you're going to have mowing, plowing. I don't know that part of it. These are the only ones.

I don't know if you'd need to plow, but.

Right. These are the only ones that come out.

Do we hire the mowing or do we pay our own people? We do it. Our own people. I mean, this guy does it.

Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but. I'm against putting any more money into it, and if we've got the money to tear it down this year, we need to get it done and get it over with. Otherwise, you'll be dragging this out, and two or three years from now, you'll be tearing it down.

So, and just so everybody is on the same page also, and I know I said it before, but I'm going to say it again. I did not do a Sunny Meadows department budget on its own, because we don't have a department. So their utilities will be paid out of courthouse, out of his budget.

Susan, I know that there's some additional dollars left in that account currently. Will those funds just revert back into general fund? Okay, so they won't stay in like a Sunny Meadows account because there isn't a Sunny Meadows.

No, because it's not their own. Their budget is out of county general. And so just like my budget, what I don't spend at the end of the year goes back to I don't get to keep what I didn't spend okay got it so it all reverts now that being said if for some reason I don't know that if for some reason they decide to tear it down or what not if we as long as we have a Or an invoice or something I could encumber some of those funds to be able to pay for that Right now we have a little over 275,000 appropriations I Mean I'll still tell it had gotten a bid on tearing it down wasn't that in the 150 range or something I

I can't remember because I thought there was a piece in there where they didn't account for Okay As old as the building is I'm surprised there wouldn't be a lot of that but was that when we tore down the old jail I Know that there was discussion by the commissioners.

I think Monday about Spending $10,000 or $20,000 possibly for a plaque. I know that the people on the committee, some of the people on the committee have been talking about spending money on 15 gutters, 20-some thousand, I think it was, 17,000.

That hasn't been brought, the gutters haven't been brought to the commissioners. The committee brought the sign to us Monday, which wasn't asked to be approved or anything. They didn't approve anything.

But I also believe that their attorney had looked up and there's possibility that they could be because of Something for the council Just put any dollars forward on this or not and I'm reminded my personal opinion. No, it's just me You know

I'll be the first to say I love old buildings. I live in a 100-year-old house. I love old buildings. I visit a lot of old buildings as I travel. But there just is nothing really historic or memorable about some place that actually, if you look at it over the course of years, was actually a place of sadness. people in a dire straits and I'm very proud that our County stepped forward and did what they did to help them but Maintaining that building because of that I think is is really I Can't I can't buy into it Putting up a sign to member commemorate it. We've done that with with the cemetery that we put in or that that Lita was able to get Renovated and a monument there.

I'm I'm for doing that, but I'm not for saving the building at all Was there a date that they had to make a decision that committee was it December?

Asked in our budget meetings. I asked Jim and that that there wasn't a day established now if it's happened since then Early on then

I heard that the commissioners, I didn't go back and watch all the commissioners' things, but I heard that commissioners kind of laxed that and said it could be in the next year because of how long it took them to get the RFP out to try and find somebody that would want to lease it and put a million dollars into it.

I believe they're still hoping and wanting to at least know the committee's plan by December, like

He isn't arrested if not interested, I think they're still hoping to have that by December Anything else on the sunny meadows piece here, this is info only right Susan Okay, we've got a couple of minutes here before the public hearing and What we'll do is we'll suspend the meeting, go to the public hearing, take care of that. We'll resume the meeting and take a restroom break.

all of your help. I'm hopeful for changes and better news from the state next year.

This time we will suspend the budget work session, and we will convene the public hearing regarding the budget. So we are now in the public hearing session.

So this is for the county budget. Our estimated civil max levy is advertised as $15,247,038. Our property tax credit estimate is $625,400. The budget estimates for Riverboat is $100,000. Rainy day, $700,000. General, $29,633,532. Reassessment fund, $574,999. We have debt service for $224,800. We have the highway bond, $824,500. And we have highway for $5,965,085. Local road and street, $705,000. Hume Bridge, $952,500. Health department, $1,014,817. Hume cap $1,542,498. And those are all the DLGF followed funds that are either in the levy or outside of the levy. All of the other funds are considered more of a home rule or grant funds. So in total for all funds, Our budget estimate is $62,925,933.

This would be a first reading.

No, not yet. This is just the public hearing to find out if any public is here and wants to say anything. And if not, then we close it and go back to work.

Is there anyone here from the public that wishes to add input? Is there anyone here from the public that would like to add input? Is there anyone here from the public that would like to add input? Hearing none, we'll close the public hearing session. And we'll resume our work session. We'll take a 10-minute break. That's a big smile. This is something where Rick gets the door there. Oh, sorry.

A little bit more rowdy. They're good.

The next order of business here is, basically, Susan's pretty well spelled out everything here on the back of the green tabbed paper here. The question is, do we want to go through every department Is there any department or elected office that's gone up greater than 3%

I wasn't here for presentations. They may take notes on any thing why we're going through presentations that stuck out like oh They shouldn't erase that that much.

Yeah That's that no Amy looked at This quite a bit for wages It was basically wages I mean we've but two years ago whenever we dissected each department over supplies and and I feel like most of them are at the bare bones of

Presentations the only ones that really were going to go up Very much were the ones who's had contracts that the vendor raised them and they had no choice Didn't see anything that stuck out as far as I

lot of increase I I do come back to the commissioners budget where they are giving dollars out to not-for-profits and I just don't I feel like I need to just better understand how that works is that a a contract that we make with those like the Easterseals or some of those others or services I just I just need to understand that better My concern is how do we pick and choose which not-for-profits we give to? What is the, what are we receiving in return for that? How do we verify? Because we don't necessarily have access to their budget, right? So just wanting to make sure that I understand how that works.

Yeah, I mean, that'd be a question for the commissioners, right? Since it's their budget and they're giving it out.

Well good question Amy. I I won't I don't often wondered that I certainly won't speak for the three that we have now but historically if money was given to a not-for-profit it was a not-for-profit that was providing services to citizens of DeKalb County Whether that be council on aging or The humane shelter Some Alliance industries there was always There was always some connection to service for DeKalb County residents now Point taken who's you know, can you prove that Alliance is serving people in DeKalb County? Certainly you can show that in Council on Aging, but the one big one for Council on Aging is actually a pass-through. I mean there are some there are some Sometimes we have grants that are available only to governmental units But the government governmental unit doesn't provide the service. So it's a pass-through Guard the group that does like dark.

Yeah That's a very valuable service, yeah.

And I don't want to, in any way, shape, or form, say that none of them are not valuable because we have amazing not-for-profits in our county who are doing just amazing work. So my only fear is how do we justify which ones we give to, how much we give to them, and how do we then tell others in the community we won't give to you? So I'm a little... concerned about that piece.

So I know for the 13 years I've been here, these have always been the ones that the commissioners have done. How it started, I'm not sure. But I can tell you that in the last five, six years or so, if not more, those that are receiving it, they do come and update and give presentations. Some of them sent letters. The couple letters I had, I had Jody up I read them. Thank you. I can't totally answer what you're asking because I don't know how that started. And so far I don't know that we've had any other requests. Besides the services we're paying for.

I knew there was a request to the commissioners years ago for early childhood alignments or not alliance a Coalition in DeKalb County that formed to promote child care to get try and get more child care Bill get more spots and it was denied Which many other counties did approve?

Yeah, which most of the old one of our biggest issues in DeKalb County is the lack of child care affordable child care But I mean I know there's been some other

Here and there, but it's really very difficult. It's like How do you?

This I guess is the commissioners to decide I mean they're the administrators and they get to decide and that being the point I mean we We give the commissioners a budget we approve that budget, but it's up to the commissioners to make those decisions.

They are the executive We get to decide whether or not we will fund them direct correct Because we put it in their budget They can put it in there, but we can opt not to do it.

And along those lines, we've had a couple of ministerial alliances that we have not voted to support along the way. So, I mean, these are reviewed. I know we've had several groups come in and present to the council, but it goes back to it's a commissioner decision, and you're right, Amy, whether we support it or not, but We have to have the information from them.

I guess my other concern then is we just had a conversation about the dollar amounts that the commissioners needed to, like that million dollars. So using these, are we saying that these are discretionary funds then that the commissioners have at this point that they're willing to spend on these? Are these discretionary? And is that the best use of our dollars as we're looking at SB1? And maybe not to undo their funding, but maybe lessen that funding? I don't know. We've all talked about SB1 and the fear that we have of what that looks like in a couple years. I would hate for these organizations then to count on us for dollars that maybe we're not going to have those discretionary dollars. So I don't know. These are just topics that

Those would be discretionary funds for the commissioner.

They are discretionary. Yes. So I'm just asking that question. Is this the best use of our discretionary funds at this point in time based on the unknowns in the future? And again, this has nothing to do with whether or not they're good or not. They're all great for sure.

My concern is just on not-for-profits. It makes it sound like a not-for-profit means we're just gonna break even and we're not gonna make any money That's really not what a non-profit is. There's a lot of tax dollars Parkview is pretty much not-for-profit aren't they? That's a Real sore spot with me the term not-for-profit So it's not break even or even lose some money. It is Property taxes. We don't have to pay and other things along the way so

Maybe the solution is not that we're going to vet these groups, because we're not, but put one pot of money in the commissioner's budget that this is your discretionary funds for those not-for-profits, and how you disperse it is all on you. You have to vet them. I'm not opposed to that. Well, it is. We're not giving the money to them. It's the commissioners. Let them justify it if they want to spend it.

Rick, this could be a momentous moment where you and I agree.

Wait a minute. I think we've had that two times this year.

Yeah, that's right. It's like guitar. Is everybody's microphone on? That's fantastic. That may be a good solution. Pardon? That may be a good solution rather than us being determining which of these, because it was all over the board too as far as do they get 20 or 35 or 40. I don't know. And maybe it is a better way to just give them a pot of money to say you determine.

Do we know where they've been giving it up to now? Things that don't require somebody providing service to us, like the humane shelter.

Right. Because we have a contract.

Some of those amounts are quite less than what they used to be when I first came on board. If I remember correctly.

I think you're right. They were higher even in the past. But I feel like there was some added ones maybe. I don't know.

As of right now, there's not anything in there for humane shelter because there's not a contract.

The animal ones We actually Just combined them all into one account so that those are those are for services Those have a contract yes There's the difference I Mean if we given anything to the Heart Association or Diabetes Association anything like that, okay, I

Okay with this right now I mean we're not gonna be able to make a decision on who's the winner and who's a loser act on that there So when you say am I okay with it now just leave it alone for now or are we just moving forward? Are we gonna make I think this is gonna be definitely be a commissioner discussion here on this I Mean if I mean I'm looking to see if we've given anything to

Not-for-profit that didn't provide us direct services how much was that and then we just label it as this is their Discretionary fund for not-for-profits.

Well what I meant them to go is we need to hear that from them though Which groups are going to go with I don't think so. Don't think so.

I don't think we do I think it's we're just creating this account. We're putting funds in it. It may not be the total amount that they were requesting for all of the different ones, but then it does give them a I'm just a little amazed here right now Are we talking about a pot that has $5,000 $10,000 I think we need to do something like that.

That's what needs to be determined Yeah, I think that's just a line item that this is their discretionary fund for not-for-profit That gets that but if they have a contract we have to know that contract the contractual amount correct and The contract was, those are services rendered.

Those are different.

I'm just talking about those that are just asking for money.

The Northeastern Center, the animals.

We have to have a contract with a mental health provider.

The Northeast Mental Health, the $449,801, that is given to us. The state tells us what we have to do. The Children's First 4-H... Humane, Shelter, well that doesn't have anything. Easter Seals, Alliance, Council on Aging, those are all the ones that request that. They get money, but there's not a set.

Do they request that money each year?

I'll tell you that I've probably never heard from 4-H. I Don't know that I haven't heard from children's first for a while, but they're kind of them and Easterseals rise and Alliance I Don't know they kind of all work together kind of But they don't ever I mean they'll like say we are requesting $50,000, but that doesn't mean that commissioners are

I'm sure there's going to be a new one of the cast housing is getting ready to build a Housing project for people with mental disabilities, which very much takes place of what we were doing in sunny meadows So the large project and green hurt Neil Greenhurst course they have the land they have the plans They're starting the capital campaign right now that their their programs are starting at the Y until they get their buildings built so That would be a likely one it fits with the Lions and Easterseals and all of those They they may ask or I just don't again as a commissioners decision what Which ones they're gonna give to you But I think as time goes on You know at least we would hope that the commissioners would look at new and different and are the people that are getting it year after year still using it a way that

So right now, for the four, five, Children's First, 4-H, RISE, Alliance, Council on Aging, that totals $159,000.

Do we get actual services from any of those?

I think you're asking, do we have a contract with them? Is that?

Yeah. But I guess there'll be those that don't have contracts that maybe we are receiving. Yacoub County residents are receiving services. Alliance, most likely. I think that one's identifiable. I didn't even know RISE even still existed, to tell you the truth.

I actually think several of our residents get bused up there or something.

Well, I know they used to because I was a guardian for somebody that did for 25 years. But...

Yeah, but they served look great people employment like Yeah, because they got they got actually got a paycheck.

That's what I thought but I wasn't a hundred percent They're doing rise does some other services as well. I know that they come into the home sometimes and check on

It's almost like a supervisor. After my wife's aunt passed or didn't go there anymore, I think they started to change their programming as to what they were doing.

We have $159,000 that's budgeted at this point.

So you guys are kind of thinking about instead of

listing them out like this you want me to make one account for donations or something like legal I guess I'm assuming it is like is it is it okay that we're doing that even if we put it in one pot we don't council would not know who is getting money that's

The point I was trying to make, the commissioner is going to have to come or let Susan know where it's going to go if we just have one pot.

That would be public information, correct? I mean, whoever is asking for those dollars would need to publicly come before the commissioners and requests and the commissioners would Would be very public as to who was getting those funds and how much I would know As concerned about that as Us trying to pick like we're trying to pick winners and losers and the only else I don't like it the only thing you have to be careful of Amy is the fact that Given today's

people that we're dealing with, I am very comfortable that that would come before us, that would come before the commissioner. But you always have to think about not as the individuals you're dealing with today, but what about the people that we might or the council might be dealing with or the commissioners might be dealing with five years from now or 10 years from now. That's that's always that's always in any kind of rule regulation Anything that you do You got to consider not only the people that you're dealing with today But what about next year five years from now ten years from now is there enough? safeguards around what you're doing to prevent Something nefarious from happening so I'm not sure that, now I'm sure they would come before the commissioner. I'm not, is that always the way it's gonna be? I don't know. Is it a requirement, I guess?

I don't know that they asked them to.

Again, trying to make sure we know We give them a pot of $10,000 and we know where that $10,000 went. Is there going to be a list somewhere?

Well, it's public dollars, so I think anybody could request that information, right? See where all of those dollars are spent. Taxpayer dollars. Request that. I'm open to $100,000 fund to the commissioners. That's a lot, I feel like, in discretionary funding when we're talking about, oh, how much money are we going to have? But we'll let the commissioners judge that. That's my thought. I could be wrong.

That would cut $59,000 from those four people, those four organizations. Give us that list again.

Children's First, 4-H, Easter Seals, Alliance, Council on Aging.

How much? $159,000? We need Susan. I don't know that I'm willing to take it down to 100, but probably make it at least 150. You could go to 160, but 150. And there may be other groups that come along that want money, and they'd have to divide it up amongst them.

I just want to be clear. It's not about the particular group. It's not that. It's the discretionary funding that just talked about from the commissioners hey we're gonna move a million over to the general because of the funding is that are those two different funds is it are they separate are are the commissioners spending a hundred thousand that they could use somewhere else and in my only concern it again because we've said numerous times we need to save every nickel we have a jail that we have to build Is this the time where we use these discretionary funds and do we use that total amount of discretionary funds? That's my point.

I'm sure that those five groups are all giving services to residents of DeKalb County. So I'm not sure I'm willing to cut them back that much. But I would go to $150. That cuts essentially $9,000 out of what's been given to them in the past. And if the commissioners want to divide it up differently, that's up to them.

Our services, all of DeKalb County and all citizens.

That's a pass-through.

Right, but we're still giving them some funding.

Not the $48,000.

Right. I guess what I'm saying is that if somebody doesn't have transportation and they need to get to a doctor's appointment, work, That's something, that's a service that anyone can use in the county, not just, you know, the aging population. It's for everyone. So, I mean, I see that. I'm not very familiar with Easter Seals and RISE. I'm assuming.

Well, if, you know, and I do know you are correct that I, Surprised to find out that some parents utilize dart to get their kids to and from different functions and that I Know in Auburn and takes them to Eastside for school.

I know a lot of people who utilize start services They pay a fee yeah, you have like a punt you can purchase a punch card if you're going to use it and

But again, as with the other ones, we know that they're offering services to everybody.

I think the importance is just having accountability and making sure that those, you know, kind of like Northeastern Center coming in and presenting, giving us their annual report, letting us know what's going well, you know, what are some of their challenges, just informing.

of you know what's going on and it's you know letting us know letting the commissioners know that we're being good stewards of those tax dollars and yes we are you to let you know we are offering services and I'm not suggesting we cut off any of these people but it's going to be the discretion of the commissioners to get the information and we leave you know if they want to continue to give the 48,000 to dart for this I That's within that, and I'm not saying cut it down to 100,000. I'm saying leave it at least 150. Could also make it 160 and let them divide it up. It'll be the commissioner's discretion to do that, to get the justification for it. Sounds to me like DART is one that they can definitely justify as a good reason to support them.

Oh, and I think they're all great organizations.

Can Easter Seals come in and do the same thing? Or can Rise?

Sure. Just understanding what services they provide. I'm sure there's things that some of us don't know about. Yeah, they fill that void.

I'm going to stick with my $100,000. So I feel like that's more than enough. And I feel like, again, in this time where we're trying to figure out where are we headed, We have to be cautious with our discretionary funding.

So I don't know if we want to make a move, or do we want to? We need a motion.

I'll make the motion that we cap the, create that fund and set it at $100,000.

Do we have a second? Do we have a second?

Hearing no second the motion dies and I'll make a motion that we set that fund at 150 150,000 a do we have a second to the $150,000 Do we have a second

Hearing no second, that motion dies.

I don't like forcing a cut. I mean, because we say, well, we're going to let the commissioners cut them, but we're cutting it if we lower it. So I'll make a motion that we, this year, continue to fund the commissioner's account at $159,000. They can make changes as they want year to year, but I would like to see them come to us These are the ones we're doing, and we've talked to them, and this is why. Every year they should have a report. I don't think we want those organizations to come to the council, but they should be going to the commissioners every year just like Northeast does now with us. And the commissioner should say, this isn't part of the motion, but the commissioner should report to us, you know, hey, we want $175,000 next year because we have two more organizations that have approached us, and we want to fund them, and then we can decide that.

Your motion is $159,000. $159,000. Do we have a second?

I'll second that.

We have a second by Rick. Any further discussion? Hearing none, we'll call for the question. All those in favor of setting it at 159,000, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed?

Aye.

Okay. One, two, three, four, two. Motion carried. Okay. Moving on. Let's go back to our green Tab sheet we need to go back to the first one about leaving the facilities director at executive a or what We do need to get that one just determined here before we can really go on Okay, real quick though on that last one.

You're wanting me to put them all in one account or you wanted me to leave them separate I'm fine with it being one account, but But you know verbally I think we had asked the commissioners that I Annually check on those Who's their liaison? Commissioners?

Yeah, actually real quick before we go back on the public defender the misdemeanor attorneys I did ordinance 2026 OCC 15 that is moving their misdemeanor attorneys to the higher wage 2,000 225 57 or 2026 that we need to pass on three readings. We need all the motions for that.

We need a motion.

We need all the motions for that, yeah. We got to read it on the first, waive it, read it on the second and third. Read well, I just read it.

You just read it. Hey Did everybody get that?

You'll read that again The same rate as the felony attorneys, all right, okay, okay, so it's moving the misdemeanor attorneys up to be compliant with the

program, the 40% reimbursement program. So it's moving them from $39,918 per year up to $57,864 to match the felony attorneys as required.

Do we have a motion to approve it on first reading? So moved. Do we have a second?

I'll second it.

Okay. All those in favor of approving the motion there of moving the public defenders attorneys from the Misdemeanor side to the felony side, which is he begins compliance with the grant It is an increase signify by saying aye Aye pose Okay, do we have a motion to suspend the rules? Who made the motion Amy we have a second Okay, we have a second by Chris craft will I Proceed to vote. All those in favor of suspending the rules, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is carried. Okay, now the last one is approval. Second and third reading. Do we have a motion to approve on second and third reading? I'll make that motion. I have a motion by Bob Kraft. Do we have a second?

Second.

Second by Amy Demski. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Motion is carried Okay, hey Susan we need to decide on facilities director Yep

That's up to you guys you guys have to decide We're leaving it changing it doing anything for emergency management Open for discussion I Think the issue was if we left him in exec a

Which is where West says he should be but the commissioners wanted to pay him more that he would that the his salary would have been outside the guidelines of the council set up and Every time you make an exception and just keep building more and more and more exceptions if you're going to set up a standard You got to have a standard so that's why they We either were going to break the standard by having a higher salary for his position in Exec A or break the standard by moving him into Exec B to keep him in the right salary range. So it was one or the other. You're breaking the standard. And I don't know. Do you have a motion? I do not because the whole thing is just a quandary. I don't, you know, I understand where both of them are coming from. I understand why the commissioners are doing what they're doing and going with the higher raise, the higher salary amount. I'm just not comfortable with it.

So there's no action from the council? If we don't take it? Go ahead, me.

No, no, no. I think, I just feel like there's some additional discussion, I guess for me anyway, just understanding the facilities director and what he does. So he oversees, what is it, six buildings that we have? So he's in charge of six buildings, right? We have six, seven. And then how many staff does he have? He oversees how many staff?

About two, including him.

who oversees two staff underneath him. He's in charge of two staff, all of the buildings. And I think in the committee's discussion when we were looking at this, one of the things that we discussed was that while Wiss only requires a high school diploma, we looked at just his years of experience

Type of experience that he has is something unique that has value to it which right which was different than longevity pay that is experience is Equal to a high school or I mean a college degree or hearing me.

Yeah Yeah So that was part of the reasoning I think we had was we need to make a change in that because I because a high school diploma isn't necessary for that position. It's something that requires some additional training, and there may not be a piece of paper to back that up, but at least there was some of that additional training. I feel like that is where we looked and said we felt like that deserved the extra because of that.

But the other one, emergency management, they have requirements already above high school diploma.

Yes. And unfortunately, I think, I know that in the discussions that I had with Dottie and them, we were looking for, since there isn't a comparable position in any other county that we can find or even city, looking to, like at the YMCA, facilities manager, the hospital, the director of facilities, looking at those and not so much the Y, but I know that Many of the facility managers in the hospital setting are all either qualified plumbers or electricians or something that gives them the next step up as far as certifications or whatever. But again, there's no comparable person out there within the county. So I understand what the commissioners are doing. And maybe it's just best if we just leave the whole thing alone. We went through all these discussions and everything with everybody, and everybody seems to be satisfied now. Do we need to really open up the can of worms all over again? Now, there was some discussion about, because of getting such a large raise in the middle of this year, not giving a raise for 27. That's a reasonable discussion. But as far as where they're at and what exact level, why open that whole can of worms up?

Well, I'm not hearing anything except in the scale one way or the other here. It's just a push. Because everything sounds...

I think we all support what both of these individuals are doing. And again, thinking of the... It's hard because we do support so much what the individuals are doing, taking the personalities out of it and just talking about the positions. I'm for leaving it where it's at, just not giving a raise for 27 because we got such a big one in 26. That's where I'd be. Is that a form of a motion? Yes, I'll make that as a form of a motion.

Okay. Do we have a second? Keeping everything where it's at, no raise for next year because of the raise we gave last year. Do we have a second? Do we have a second? OK. We have a second by Amy Dembski. Any further discussion? Hearing none, we'll call for the question. All those in favor of leaving job description category Same as it is with no raise for next year because of the significant raise we gave this year. Signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion is carried. Okay, basically the next thing we have to do is to decide on a increase Whether we're going to grant one or not and at what level and Susan has broken everything down To where we're at with cash reserves that would follow If you look at the back of your green tabbed worksheet on the very back, it has a breakdown.

And because the state actually controls these salaries, the judges are not getting an increase for 27. That really doesn't affect anybody else other than the judges. But the prosecutor is not getting a raise, which would include the chief deputy prosecutor. Probation is not getting a raise. State has set those salaries at the same. But that, and the one I'm going to, is that really affects the sheriff doesn't get a raise next year. Because his salary is based on as a percentage of the prosecutor's salary. So round that robin, the sheriff's the one that doesn't get a raise that we pay the full.

They didn't get a raise for this year either. And I believe, if I remember right, I believe when Michael presented, he Mentioned something about that not the way that increase they're not getting an increase but That those are the minimum Minimum amounts that The county has to approve and that You could go higher I believe is And just even though I said their probation gets no raises I

That does not exempt us from giving a raise to somebody who moves to the next level, either by college degree or by length of service. Those standards all stay in effect. I don't know if we have anybody in those positions or not.

I don't know, without going through and finding out when they started and what year they are.

Those will come up.

So is our goal here to give raises because we feel like they're, because people are underpaid? Is it simply a pull-up? We need to raise rates? Wages for that I guess Understanding what the goal is would help us to decide what that amount should be We feel like our employees are underpaid at this point I Don't know what the coal adjustment is even three and a half to three point six percent.

Is it 27? I just looked at three and a half that's as a buck The announcement scheduled for October 14th

2026 they're gonna announce bottom line for me Amy is to make sure that we maintain as much of a cash balance in the general fund as possible okay I Mean yeah, we can we can be excessive in amount of races we give we can we can under perform in the amount of raises we give but bottom line we're looking that we stay in the black and And, you know, while I would love to have that 30% cash balance, maybe we can't be at 30% because I do think our employees deserve a raise. Just the cost of living increases that's happened. But I also don't want to be excessive with it. I would say no more than three. But, again... Bottom line is and what we're all worried of what we're all concerned about is Moving into the future and maintain because if we go belly up and they don't have a job It hasn't done them any any benefits, so we have to we have to stay fiscally sound 3% is in line with a lot of counties right now to do Yeah, I've only Guy I don't honestly I can't tell you where they were to begin with but I do know of one County that went to It go to six percent. No, I know and it's not too far from that. That was what was allowed Because that's what the the growth quotient actually is for this year But I think that even though we need to catch up I think six percent is still excessive and that was across the board in anything that we did we could go up six percent and But there's too many unknowns out there right now Hey gallon County is struggling at two or two and a half right now to come up with that There I mean People Are our taxpayers Some of our taxpayers do complain about our tax rate But I think that for the most part We have maintained our service level. As Amy pointed out earlier, we cut out so many things over these past years. I mean, I remember at a time when I first came on council, we had to cut $2 million, $2.5 million, $3 million out of the budget in order to just break even. You know, it's kind of like... The big conversation at the state level right now is the fact that when Mitch Daniels took office in Indiana, Indiana had a cash balance of six cents. They were, we were, I would have called that underwater. We had nothing in reserve. We now have reserves. We are able to Function we are able to provide our services my god. We would not have survived this Relief from the gas tax if we didn't have some reserves that we could call upon Just that kind of thing you need to put money aside. You need to have money in the bank in order to weather those storms I Think I want to reward our employees. I think they deserve something. It has been a struggle over these last few years, but I don't want to get excessive either. And there are individual decisions I think we need to make, like we just did with the facilities manager. We made a choice. And I think those kind of things are reasonable, but it's a one-on. Addressing certain situations that need to be addressed specifically. I'll throw it out there that in the past, if we've had a new office holder coming on, we've not given a raise to that office because somebody's coming in with no experience. I don't have a problem fixing that salary at that point but the other elected officials, giving them the same salary increase that we're going to give the rest of the staff. I think that's reasonable.

Motion.

I'll make that motion so we can continue on with the 3%. I'll make that motion so that we can discuss it. Okay, wait.

But you also said 3% except for newly elected officials coming in and the maintenance position. Right.

The newly elected officials include all of those councilmen that are newly elected? No, unfortunately, we can't. We've got to keep them. I'm just saying, you know, you're picking one.

Have we done that? Wait.

I feel like that's... That's what I'm asking. You do it to one.

We have had this discussion before about council.

We need a second before we talk.

Only for discussion.

Right. Do we have a second? Last time, do we have a second?

Hearing none, motion dies. The commissioners and the council, you have to keep those salaries the same. You start manipulating those all over the place, and that's not going to be beneficial in the future.

So you're talking about incoming, newly elected, besides commissioners and council, coming in at a lower rate?

No, just leaving at the same. The same rate. Absolutely unacceptable to cut anybody's wages. Just not giving a raise to that position until they get some skill. And after they... got in the background and brought themselves up to speed. If in a future year they want to give a higher rate for that person, that's fine. We've done that before with the elected positions.

I guess one of the things I want to, the compensation package for the employees is very good. Coming from the private sector, see what you guys have, extremely well. So I think we need to take that into consideration on their compensation. I mean, the insurance is great, and I don't want to say, you know, cut insurance, but we need to take that into account overall.

That's a big... Well, I... Won't disagree with you that we need to take it into account When you are considering the benefit package for any of these positions any of the elected positions The mom-and-pop shop is not the one you can compare it to You have to compare it to Volcraft Nucor arc view and all of the other places that these people could go because you want to continue to try to attract the most qualified and the most capable. And if you lower those positions too much in their benefits, you will not attract any of those people. And I can tell you that it is very difficult to attract qualified people to the elected positions. And it's not just here. It is across the country.

My concern when we're talking about like a three or four or five percent increase Chris's point So I I asked Dottie and payroll to send me just give me everything give me all of the information as far as insurance cost longevity pay Hours worked paid holidays time off threw it all into just a workbook that I could look at so that I had all of the data, right? So a lot of times we're talking in theories or this or that, but ran the numbers and just looked at then how does that compare on an average and looking at just based on insurance costs, and I know it's a little skewed because our insurance, our family packages range up to $45,000 a year for a family insurance. That's a considerable amount of money that is part of a compensation package on top of a 35-hour work week, 15 holidays, that kind of thing. So all of that's good and necessary. I understand we need to have a compensation package. But when I put in those numbers and looked at comparables, Most of our employees in the county have, for their compensation package, roughly only 60% of that's their actual salary. The other 40% of that compensation package is just actual benefits. That's a very big spread. And you can say it's not comparing it to mom and pops. That's pretty big. The other piece I think is important is that On average, our employees only pay usually less than 10% of their share of their insurance. The county picks up the other 90% of that, which is costing us about $5 million a year in insurance. Now I understand we can't, the commissioners are working very hard to lower that cost and that has nothing to do with the employees as far as the cost. But that amount that they pay does, that's a significant amount that we as taxpayers are paying. So that isn't to say not give raises. I'm saying is we have to look at when we say somebody is making $75,000 a year, on average, that's probably actually a $30,000 to $40,000 compensation package. So just running the data that I got from HR. So I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page as far as what does that look like as far as when we say this is your salary, it's not just that piece of it. you can look at probably another $25,000 to $45,000 that cost us as the county, the taxpayers, to employ those people.

When you said $45,000 for a family plan, is that? All paid by the county, or is part of that paid by the employee? Do they pay a little more on the family plan than they would on their individual?

I think maybe they paid like 15. I feel like that was the one plan that was a little higher. There was none under over 15% that were paid by the employee. And, I mean, that's a significant amount of money for a family plan.

So they paid 15% of the $45,000?

The $45,000, uh-huh. Some of those reductions, too, have been because of the wellness programs.

In that if they if they participate in the wellness program the the county picks up more they get a credit of how much They'd be paying six thousand forty five still costing us thirty nine thousand Okay, so to clarify the family plan on the PPO Total premium is fifty one thousand five seventy the employee pays fifteen percent Employer pays eighty five percent The employee could get $40 off per pay if they do their will. So that's not 15% of the $40. Okay.

But again, it is an incentive to improve the health. It's an incentive to improve the health of the individual and then consequently lowering our costs. So I don't think that any of our I don't think any of our plans are excessive. And I do think that if you're going to have a good employee, a good employee staff, that those are absolutely necessary.

And just to reiterate, we did not have a spouse portion of the wellness previously. It was $50 per employee for the wellness program, those that participated. The commissioners chose to add the spouses this year and incentivize that because looking at some of the data That was a large contributing factor to the amount of money the county was paying in claims and whatnot, which was secondary to those policies.

We had spouses in the $50, but we're not allowed to do it in that manner. That's why we had to separate it.

Yep, and so that's why this year they went to $40 and then $25. for spouses that participated. I just wanted to bring that up just because our insurance company, Apex and whatnot, worked a lot with HR and they determined that the family's addition was adding a lot to the overall cost of the county's portion of what they were paying out.

I think the other piece of that too is, so just so we're understanding that when we're saying, hey, we're We're hiring a fifty five thousand dollar employee You should add another thirty to fifty thousand depending on their insurance and then don't forget the eleven point four percent eleven point four eleven point three percent or for their retirement plan, so Just so we understand. I just want to make sure that we are very clear on It's not just the salary. There's a huge compensation package which I When you start to subtract the amount of hours worked with holiday pay, things like that, many of our employees are making $30, $40, $50, some $80 an hour just based on their position, so based on their compensation.

Which is pretty standard for any industry. I mean, I would imagine that Judy had the same thing when she was working for the school system. Anybody that again you want the qualified people and you want to give them the benefits that they deserve Now I'm not in any way away all of that.

I'm not Taking away all of that.

I will say that I am disturbed by Our We are here to serve our County residents and If anything, I would want to make sure that we are accessible to our county residents when they need to be, such as what time do we open up the doors in the morning? What time do we close the doors in the evening? Are we available during lunch? The fact that we have more than two employees in a department and they close the whole place down for lunch? No, that's wrong. Most of us on the outside, when would we be able to come in and do business with the county? Either before we go to work, after we get done with work, or during our lunch hour. So if a department is closed during lunch hour, that's wrong. They should be open. They should be available. If they want the pay and the benefits that you're talking about, they need to be servicing the public. And if they're not, then we need to see what we can do to address that.

I agree.

Oh, my God. That is the fifth time. I'm keeping a tally.

I have a tally. That's all right. That's the fifth time. Strike the gavel or something.

I don't know, but I think it's getting a lot colder outside than it was before. Hell is freezing over.

It's the heat.

I'd like to go all the way full circle back to the one the motion when you were talking about The one individual one elected official not getting the same race if this is a cost of living raise that position pays this much It's not their longevity pay that's outside of what the position pays I don't think you can take that away from the next person plus it also hurts the chief deputy in that department, so That's I just want to State that I if it was you're not hiring and paying that person based on their experience that's what the auditor or the Treasurer or whoever those offices make that's what we say that office should make So and we're doing Cola across the board. It needs to be across the board. We don't single one person out Is there I Mean that's

I guess I have one more question. So as far as we're keeping those benefits so high for retention of employees, and I probably need to talk to Dottie, is there a problem with the retention of employees? I mean, does she have people tell her the reason I'm quitting is I'm going to a different county?

She has stated that before.

She doesn't?

I don't know if that's everyone, Chris. Okay, that's my question. She has stated that.

She has stated, okay.

And I think that it may have been some higher-up positions even maybe and we could not attract certain people because of it I know the Sheriff's Department has said that I know the public defender's office has said that the prosecutor's office has said that so I don't know everybody and Dottie would be able to but I know that so they're not knocking at our door wanting to come to our County because you've been counties but the overall Patricia rate Oh moving to Yeah Yeah

Amy, the retention rate that we have was very good, though. It was 18% was where we were supposed to be at for this kind of a, you know, for a government entity. And we were at 18%, right, where we were supposed to be. Compared to all the other industries. Other industries are much higher. Are there, I mean, not retention, attrition rate. Like, how many did they lose?

It's hard to compare.

Yeah.

I mean, I feel like it's hard to compare because you're talking different industries. Like, we can't compare a work environment with a new core. an SDI the completely different right so I feel like over the last couple years there have been departments who have said we are having a hard time attracting new hires and so we have made adjustments like at the highway department or the attorneys we've done all of those things CDL drivers CDL drivers we've made a lot of concessions we've raised rates on a very consistent basis I haven't heard any complaints. It's been a pretty quiet year for our committee, so we haven't had a lot of issues. So I feel like we're at, I think, I've not heard any complaints about the pay or the benefits. Chris's point are amazing. To get all of that and work 35 hours a week is a pretty great deal.

Just off the top, Remember the sheriff coming in, but he had said that he was having a difficult time specifically because likes to Bend County starting wage for a deputy 73,000 Yeah, we are at 64,000 right so like and I know there were others. I know that probation knowing that some of their some of their Funding was not going to come through like community corrections so that is why they went to the four-day work week to Incentivize people and do some different things and think outside the box increase the hours for those four days.

Oh

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's no service that's changed whatsoever, but he was trying to think outside the box. Now, they're still at 35, right?

They're not at 40. Community corrections.

They're still working the same amount of hours. They're still working the same amount of hours. They're just on a modified daily schedule. Yep.

I think it's like 37 and a half one week or something.

Pick one day to have off and their administrative support is still the same.

But just to your point, Chris, I remembered specifically Brady had talked about it. And I know there was a few others. I don't think it's been significant compared to what it was several years ago. But just for example, those are jobs that you continually see posted. Same for community corrections on our county website.

Central communications.

Central communications is the same way. Like there's just several of those that... that the department heads or the elected officials felt like they could not compete with outside counties that were surrounding our county. Anyway.

And we do have to, while we'll never pay what SDI pays, we'll never pay that.

Nor should we. It's a totally different work environment.

Well, and because of the, well, I don't know, being a sheriff's deputy versus working in a steel mill, I'm not sure which one's more dangerous, especially in today's world. But we'll never be able to pay that. But we need to make sure that we have the wages and the benefits high enough that going to that work environment over here is not as desirable as staying right where we're at. Sheriff's Department lost an employee to the city of Auburn just recently. We've lost employees to other counties, other cities. We need to be able to keep those benefits and wages up. Now, again, I go back to we need to make sure that what we're paying for, our citizens are getting the services and the ability to connect with those services as best they can. And if we're not, then we do have an issue with what we're paying It's It's but it's constant fight. I mean when I was with the City of Auburn when I was on City Council there We were losing people to Fort Wayne and other other Areas just as fast as we could hire them And we had to bring those wages up. We had to bring those benefits up To be able to retain people So, I mean, I don't I don't want to go overboard, but I don't want to underpay them either. I

I'm gonna kind of try to bring us back around here because this disguise great discussion We've had this periodically throughout the years about the different departments and different concerns and so on So what we need to do is try to wrap around this here. Does anybody have a motion Amy? Are you prepared to make a motion?

Is anybody prepared to make a motion I'll go back to the motion I made previously 3% with the exception for the Facilities manager and home And new employees and It was just the facilities director that Took out that other piece About the newly elected.

Yes to your point.

It would affect I just deputies 3% raised to him all employees minus the facilities because that one got the large raised

Okay, do we have a second? I'll second that motion.

I did have a question, actually, with development services and the interlocal agreement with Butler. Did they get a raise in that, or did that, was that a part of?

That's not a raise.

No, no, no, I thought that the interlocal agreement, that they got a raise in that interlocal agreement.

Well. It's a different, I've had a discussion with Chris and I had a brief discussion with Dave.

It was like $2,250.

But that was a raise. I think it's not a raise. It's an addition to their current salary. Additional work. And it's additional work they're doing, but it really has to be maintained in their an add-on Much like the president of the council president of the commissioners has an add-on That if that changes there that doesn't change their salary Because you don't want to be stuck with this extra if that Butler thing goes away No, no, I think the I think that what I'm thinking of is that that increased the interlocal agreement increased because of Butler basically said we're giving

we're going to raise the amount of that interlocal agreement to an extra $2,500.

That was when the city of Butler, when they no longer had a building planning person, whatever that is.

Yeah, they don't have a city planner any longer.

Yeah, so when that position resigned, then those duties came over here, and that was what the extra $2,000, whatever, because there was more than what the prior interlocal was. I got it.

See, and I... The commissioners did this and it's it's it is going to be an issue. I mean quite honestly Yes, there are certain things that the our department does for Waterloo and Corona and everybody else and they can do that for Butler but this adding these other duties on to our person and then Possibly and I don't want it to adjust, you know all of a sudden that Three years from now, well, that's their salary. Well, no. That's why it needs to be an add-on. But the commissioners put us in this position, and I'm not sure it's the wisest thing to have done.

We're getting into a discussion here for the next meeting, not here at this one. So I'm going to call for the question here. 3%, everybody across the board except the director that we talked about. All those in favor? 3% signify by saying aye aye Those motion is carried Now do we have anything else to come before us here I know we have to meet tomorrow and let's talk about that so Susan we're down at Airport public hearing at 930 and then a vote at 115 So

The only thing, so tomorrow we have to come, we have to start at 9.30 for public, airport's public hearing. And then when that's done, then you guys can do the first reading for the airport and the county budgets.

Okay, so.

With all the changes that you.

9.30 tomorrow. We need to be here by 9.30, not 8.30.

I mean, I advertised that it was starting at 8.30, but I don't know what.

No, I want to talk about this. Yeah, I was going to say we need to talk.

We need to at least discuss. No, we're not done.

But I was just looking. I could use a bathroom break, really bad. Okay, let's take 10 for a bathroom break. I just mentioned that we had to go through the capital and make sure we I

Planning ahead for whatever is next year at least in the year after this let's see if they're big big numbers like they're Development services four hundred sixty five thousand for just next year New offices four hundred thousand That's been on there for several years

After the space study, are we actually going to remodel that old building?

Is that with the $400,000? Is it to get a whole new office or remodel that one?

New office and or.

Or buy one?

But personally, I think that if you can't consolidate him into some other, in the GIS, into somewhere else, you ought to look at renting it.

Well it is there I Had heard this is just rumor lately, but that there's possible potential for on the other side of the port square being fixed up and made into offices and Being available. I don't know over the old buttermore area Or is that all

Not to take the whole block, but take part of the block. Build a county building that has all the non-court related, all the non-justice related to one building. Going away with the health department. Annex and other things. But things, you know, everything's mobile. The city who was interested in the next building at one time. I don't know if they're still interested in it. They just bought the old bank down here. So maybe they have no interest in it. There are still base needs for the health department nothing's going to happen until the jails. So, as you've been promising Chris that you'd fix his office four or five years now.

It's rough. It is rough.

It is bad. Actually, that whole, that piece of the building.

Yeah.

Another thing. I don't know. Well, some of these are pretty small, but the courthouse

120,000 is that just kind of a guess at what it takes to keep everything fixed up in here because it's so old Or is he got things in mind?

He's got More in County General this is just in case Are there specific ones here that we have to say yes, we want to include those in our 27 budget Or are we just saying? Nay or what are we saying so what's in yeah, and what's in Hume cap?

Because you yourself in real trouble if you don't Right now there's only 156,000

Receipts come and go and we get more. What was the $156,000? The current balance of the QCAP fund.

Oh.

Does the...

They... Talking about...

This isn't a good place for it to go.

I think they were possibly thinking more like the health department, but I Haven't hired anyone I don't Is in the king cap on does that go up when we collect taxes in November We'll go back up again, or when how does that go up that when he goes up?

I? And some of it, like the highway, those would have to stay. Oh, wait a minute.

So I think we're missing. Can we just, I don't know, maybe we, do we want to just go from top to bottom and just talk these through, just see, are we, I don't know, are we keeping them, are we doing them, adding them to the budget, not adding them to the budget? On this the capital needs request are we do we have to go through here then and determine? Which ones are we or do we just all right? Saying yes, we're gonna do those Like I guess the first one the circuit court does that just become part of the maintenance budget? Or is that specifically coming out of I guess I'm not sure Hume cap like

I don't know why that's never been fixed. So circuit court, that's stuff that you tell me. You decide if you want to do it, if you want it to go into maintenance. Soil and water should stay. Community corrections probably should stay. I would keep some in there for courthouse. The Eagle View for development services, that should stay. The Sheriff's should stay. And then the new carpet for probation, that could also go to Paul and Larry's as well. On one of these, and I don't know, it might be in here. There is... Million ten thousand of highway expenditures, but you have to remember that That has to be paid out of cum cap, but then the bridge cumulative cap fund Reimburses Him cap for it because we keep it separate you guys remember when you did like 42% of Kim cap those two bridges

So if we move some of these small ones and say we want to move it to maintenance out of Kume Cap, does that mess up Larry's maintenance budget that he's asking for for 27? Well, you're making him short, so he'll have to do additionals if we take this.

Moving it into general or in here, in Kume Cap?

I thought that's what you were saying. We could take some of these and have.

Well, if you don't want all that. 49,000 to be listed under circuit court. We, since there are maintenance things.

Oh, you put it under courthouses.

Yeah.

On the same sheet. Keep it all in QM cap, but you're just saying.

Yeah, and then, I mean, Larry, they can decide next year if they want to pay out of county general first for maintenance repairs and stuff, or if they want to do QM cap. It kind of just depends how the funding goes.

I would say repairing water damage in a courtroom that's Be done right away. That should be done out of maintenance not a cube cap expense There were the plaster needs fix the painting the leak, you know thousand dollars on here Same thing with a hot water heater. I should just be a maintenance item that they They just do

So you want to move all of that 49 to maintenance no, I was just saying those two smaller ones I Mean new carpets.

I mean, that's kind of a wear and tear item too, but Somebody else had carpet on here as well.

I think probation but that nation that probably should be

So we agree that it went with the two $1,000 things out of the first one and just haven't paid for amount of maintenance budget. Is that what we're saying?

Yep.

Leave the rest of it there. Yep. Okay, the $4,000 for soil and water, laptops.

So for circuit court, remember there was a huge fiasco because the clerk had capital money Allocated to their location and did their offices and there's a huge issue. So are you wanting? the rest of that I to circuit courts location Oh, I see what you're saying Like All the rest of the other 47,000 yeah, like I New carpet, repainting, wire, I mean, all of that is like maintenance stuff.

I feel like painting and those kind of things are maintenance things that should be ongoing.

Painting is never considered capital in my world. Okay. Because it's an ongoing thing. I mean, you can paint every couple of years and it's only... Now, if you wait and you have to repaint and do $8,000 worth, then it's still... Could have been done a little at a time over years. It's a wear and tear. Carpet might be more of a capital, but paint is just wear and tear.

But we could just take it all out of circuit court. Not put it anywhere, because we already have $120,000 under a courthouse now with no plan.

All right.

Can you say that again? Louder all of the circuit court 49,000. We just wiped that all out and That 49,000 just could be part of the hundred and twenty thousand like not add it in again My question would be And maybe we can ask Larry real quick so we can text him.

But does that leave him short? I just don't want to leave him short. I

the natural thing I mean 120,000 500,000 in maintenance budget okay yeah probably not we need to look at what like the entire picture to decide out of that 120,000 what they would like to approve I would leave the hundred I believe the full hundred and twenty thousand I would just take out all of the circuit court ones and

What about everybody else, like all the other departments, though?

And I would take out the probation one. We're not going to add it. We'll just .

I would head off and move that money from circuit court and you put it into .. Yeah Right, that's why you keep listening it because he wants it done. Yeah That's something that

that you guys should be talking to the judges about, not me.

Specifically the hot water business. Was there the damage they're talking about that was in Within that circuit court there's a sound system in there does that Come into play there as well or does that come out of like an IT budget or what does that look like?

Right yeah He said to keep everything the same I agree with Susan I think some of these may have And going forward maybe on the next Budget cycle on this Larry should be involved with it There should be a separate sheet that says I don't know it had lists building and maintenance But then it also says under building and maintenance what department requested what that falls underneath Larry. So it'll still show up on this.

Well, and they probably can get that way since they are getting that system. We can't get that way because we don't know.

No, I know. That's what I'm saying. Going forward, maybe that could be something. Since Larry is going to be involved with it.

The sound system stuff, you can do either way. To me, it's still an upgrade or a change for the building. Larry's involved in all that.

Nellie did say on hers, she went to IT to get IT to find out costs and whatnot because she wasn't positive on some of the prices and what to get. So she wasn't sure if she should put that on here or ask IT to budget something in for her. And so that's why she put that on there.

And the laptops. I would keep those separate.

That's something that normally IT would do, would be kind of run that computer upgrade sound systems. I'm assuming that that falls within their parameters to do. It's just, where are we funding it from?

OK. So are these what people requested? OK. I'm looking in budget projection, and this isn't actually what people actually put in the system. So the only thing in the system is the clerk has budgeted for their infinity system, which they always do. I don't have anything in there for courthouse, because it all went to .. Then plan commission only has 56, 408 for the Eagle View. Probation had carpet, and then the sheriff has two for $331,850. So that's all that's in there.

So the rest of this is not even in the request?

No. All right. They put it on their papers, but they didn't put it in the system.

Looking at the last couple of years. capital needs, unless they were certain departments, they didn't put, Chris didn't put $400,000 in his remodel budget last year in the system.

Like those, correct, yeah. This is why it's so long.

So can you tell us what the, The clerk, the infinity system, how much was that?

That was $117,600.

That's their voting machine. It's like a plan.

We had a two-year plan, I think. We had a two-year plan. We paid $117,600.

I think we pay $117,600 for two years. Which that would have been $25,000 and $26,000. And that could be an old note. Because I know that she's required to do Yeah. So if we only have to pay $78,427, then we don't need $117,600.

Sounds like the $117,000 was the total that we spread out. The quantity.

It depends which maybe those are choices well That's the case then it was paid in 25 You either could do two years or three years or all at once I In 2026 in February we paid one hundred and seventeen thousand six hundred in March of 2025 we paid one hundred seventeen thousand six hundred So we've already paid the two payments But I don't know what I don't know is I don't know if she will now have a new Plan come before you for another

many years we ask her what she's got there We can just get a little asker. What does that look like? Just so we have an idea. They're at lunch. They're back in seven minutes.

So of those that actually put it in the system, The probation department that's requesting carpet replacement, the only thing that I would do there is I would suggest that we maybe just move that into the courthouse's line item, the same 26640, so that it's not specific to that department to use for other things. Other than that, everything else except for whatever the clerk's thing is, everything else really needs to. because it's Sheriff Vehicles and the Eagle View.

And the Sheriff's Vehicles, I see here on the paper he's got five, but I think you said he only had put two in the system, is that right? I have five.

Yeah, I say the notes say five with, and then we'll fit them decals.

What page was that? 49. I got you. Yes.

So this sheet is more like FYI. This is what they put on a piece of paper that may not have asked for it. OK. Well, Ben's is different.

And so then the Eagle View, that's just a yearly contract, it says on here. So this doesn't really need to be. I mean, it should just be part of the ongoing budget, right? Do you need to put that on there?

It was moved to when we needed to find money to be able to fund things out of the general fund. Provide our thing. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, for this year, I mean, if you want it in general, I would maybe suggest to him to request it out of general for the following year. Otherwise, you would have to do zero here for him in CubeCap, and then he would have to do an additional appropriation. Because I didn't advertise.

I wouldn't have advertised extra money.

I don't want to.

And the other thing is, and I actually was the one that brought this up and fought for it, and it finally passed. But the exception is we no longer have to pay to advertise them in a newspaper because we only have to put them on the LGF gateway. I told them, I said, you're making me pay to advertise an additional corporation for $20,000, but you let me submit a $60 million budget on gateway without advertising it. So they changed it through legislation. So it's still available for the public, but now we don't have to pay hundreds of dollars just to advertise it. you

We still have.

reports for that. Did you, I'm sorry, what did you ask? Already been paid. What page you on? That was yeah that they did an additional for this year And they did the battery replacement for this year so those two are done And the stuff the highway has, he budgets for those out of his funds. And the soil and water, they have those in their general budget. I don't know why. The only one that would be in question is the micro vote thing. I don't know the answer to that. What was that one again? The only one that would be in question would be the micro vote in the infinity machines. I don't know the answer to that.

Oh, yes.

That's the only one I don't know.

Waiting for the clerk's office to get back. They're at lunch.

I don't even know if she's there. Jody's trying to get there. Yeah, just ask her if she has a new micro vote contract for 2027.

seven seem reasonable you

Thank you. So in reality, if we keep the amount for the micro boat machines, the departments that have the requests in QMCAP is total $532,498. The rest of it is the highway expenditures that will end up coming from a different fund. Can you say that amount again, Susan? Back in there. $5.32. Sold. I know. $5.32, $4.98. And most of that was cars, I think. Yeah, $3.31, $8.50 is the cars. Okay. For five vehicles. $3.30 for five vehicles.

So...

Ask her, so do you know why you have it requested? I don't think so, but you probably should.

You would know.

Those are just notes. Those are just notes. We've already done that. But we didn't do the three years. So tell her that we paid two installments, $117,600 and $25,000 and $26,000 of $117,600, $25,000 and $26,000. So it does. Because I looked on the vendor. I wouldn't even throw that in there. I got it. We're waiting on the answer.

Wait, did we answer all of these questions on this sheet? Well done.