Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Let it run. It is 6:01 Tuesday, November 4th. Um, I'm going to call the planner board meeting to order. Let the record reflect all members present. And who is recording? All right. Is anyone else recording audio or video? All right. We are recording. Are you recording? Not yet. Oh Uh we're recording and uh we're doing live Zoom.

All right. So the first agenda item is uh public hearing continued from 10:21. Recording in progress. Definitive subdivision 32 Middle Road, 0 Clammont Way. applicant James Simmons, Simmons Development owner Edmund, Richard Arman, and Robert Claremont. Uh, Representative Jason Lenquest, Outback Engineering, Scope of Work, Seven Lot Subdivision. I will send a motion to resume. We're not doing a We'll just continue it from that, right?

Yes. Re we receive correspondence from the applicant that he wishes to continue to November 18th, 2025 which will the next meeting will be held at the school elementary school elementary school on Memorial Drive. Okay, that's all. That's the 18th. It is. All right. So, I'll entertain a motion to continue that here. Wrong one. continue that hearing to November 18th. Still 6 p.m., right? So, we should ask for the at the Freetown Elementary School. Correct. I'll make the motion. Excuse me.

I'll second it. Uh, we'll do a roll do a roll call vote for that, too. Uh, Dave, I Steve, I James, hi.

Hi. Okay. So, 32 Minboro Road, Zero uh Claremont Way. It's continued until November 18th, 6 p.m. at the Freetown Elementary School. All right. On to item number two. Uh continued from 10:21 2025 special permit uh commercial compost and 89 Chase Road. Special permit applicant John Melo. owner John Melo, Representative Attorney Richard Burke Jr. Um, we received an email asking for a continuation on the commercial composting special permit. Um, I believe the reasons is they're getting a presentation together. Oh, go ahead, sir.

Hi. So, uh, my name is Tony Riley. I'm an attorney. I represent the applicant along with attorney Burke. I sent in the request for a continuence. Um, and the purpose of the continuence is I I watched the last meeting. Um, and there was a lot of comments and questions from the crowd and from the board. So, uh, right now we are working with a surveyor to get an updated plan for the board and um, we're in the process of coordinating with the D to get a consultant uh, to generate a report and I think, you know, those two things together will actually, um, provide the board with some more specific detailed information that, you know, we'll be able to talk about at a forthcoming hearing. Um, so that's that's why we want the continuence so we can, you know, provide the extra information that you all require and uh it just takes some time to get those things together and we don't have it tonight and I I heard your next meeting's on the 18th. We probably won't have it then. So maybe a continuence to the following hearing would be helpful. So we had time to put those things together.

December 2nd. December 2nd. and we would be back here. Uh, I'll entertain a motion to continue the commercial compost and 89 Chase Road to December 2nd here at the Freetown PD uh, community room at 6:00 p.m. Yeah, I'll make that motion. I'll second. All right, so roll call vote. Go with Dave. Hi. Uh, Steve. Hi. Gary. Hi. James.

Hi. I so that will be continued the compost uh yeah commercial compost and 89 Chase Road is continued until December 2nd here at the Freetown PD communication I'm sorry community room at 6 p.m. All right. Item three is continued from 10:21 2025. Special permit commercial recycling 89 Chase Road. Special permit applicant John Melo owner John Melo representative um attorney Richard Burke Jr. And do you want us to start adding you on these now, too?

Uh, sure. All right. So, Anthony Riley. Yeah. Attorney Anthony Riley. Scope of work. The applicant request a special permit for commercial recycling on 2.34 acre parcel identified as posial C. On assesses map 241, lot 31. The applicant intends to operate a depackaging recycling facility. Um, I will entertain a motion to resume that public hearing. Yeah, I'll make that motion. I'll second it. All right. So, roll call. Dave. I. Steve. Hi, Gary. I, James. Hi.

Hi. All right. The public meeting is now open. We are going to start off by We received a ton of pictures, videos. We tried to get everything we could up except for videos. Can't go up. Is that what it

I I had um I had a little difficulty with some of the videos in the way that um it was prepared. The website would not accept some of the the types of videos that were were submitted. Um welcome to come to the town office planning department and view those. Most of them I'm sorry from Samantha D. Did I pronounce her name correctly? Hi Samantha. I'm sorry I wasn't we weren't able to upload them but happy for anybody to see them and when we go back to the composting I think that would be the most appropriate time to show them if that's okay. Um we did get some other videos as well. Um Mr. Berseron um provided some videos which I can I can show maybe you know of the trucks coming and going. Um

yeah, we're going to show a few of those videos today as a sample. But um again, I don't think in here just on the notes though, it says uh though the town is it's town's not obligated to post videos, every effort has been made to do so, the videos themselves are considered public record and if submitted as part of the hearing would become records of the hearing. So they are records of the hearing. Uh we're going to show some of the some of those videos at the meeting

and the videos obviously any video we received from private individuals have not been authent a authenticated by the board themselves. So, we're going to start to here and just playing a few of those videos. And before we get Did anyone submit anything they didn't see? Check to see and it wasn't posted that wasn't a video. Stop sharing. I know we got a lot of paperwork in last meeting. Okay. It takes a second to upload. There it is. You take your time, Nancy. Thank you.

There it is. Not as smooth as silk. I'm sorry. Doing the best I can. Obviously, there is some uh truck operations and the video described um that heavy heavy equipment being utilized on the site. I have a question.

Sure. Can we have someone describe what the videos are purporting to show? I mean, it was We don't know what that was and what that had if that even relates to our application. It's hard to respond to when it's just It's a good question. Um, so so all I can say, we received the video from Frank Frank Berseron. I don't know if he's here, but I believe it was a video of the entrance of 89 Chase and it was to show a heavy equipment operation being done at the entrance of the site. Um it's not they're not um good quality videos, but there that is what we received. Again, we're not authenticating that.

Oh, no. I know the board doesn't. I just want to maybe, you know, cut through some confusion because it doesn't look like that has anything to do with what we're actually applying for. So, I'm just concerned that it's somewhat misleading if there's no explanation of what it actually shows. We're just trying to be uh show everything that we get in. I understand. Um it I know what you're saying. It's a it's pallets at the front of the uh the place there. It looks like they're being removed in that video. Yeah, they're gone. They're gone now, but

Yeah. So it just again we we don't know that none of them u most of them were not timestamped. Um that's a question I actually raised like obviously I know it's the site at some point in its history of being no I understand when I don't know so we just thought it would be ne you know there that's fine no you can show whatever you want I would just like one or two second chance to respond if you have a response to each video I mean we can stop and you can respond to it if not people in here uh probably see no problem yeah thank you

I only basically two that have uploaded that actually um might pertain. So I'm and they're just very limited. Most of them most of the videos we received I believe would be more for the uh composting but a few of them are at the entrance and honestly the videos I've seen were just trucks coming in and out um as far as anything that will relate to the recycling. Go down.

Did you guys get a chance to watch all the videos? This should come in a moment. Um, it's basically again what I can tell on a grainy screen. It was just truck operations again at the entrance of 89 Chase Road. I don't know much more about it. Is any Is Mr. Berseron here like to speak to it?

No. No, it doesn't. These individually are all on the website for anyone to view. we were able to get them into a document called um video submitts. You can click on the link in the document and then it can bring you to the various videos if you wish to to review more of them. That one's done now. So, So those were those were just a few

a couple videos of trucks at the entrance in and out. Um Spurs did say during one of them he believed it may have been 2 a.m. but again we just wanted to show some because we were we received them. All the videos are available at the uh town hall. What would the highways be on that? You want to

So, if you're looking for the ones for the birds uh on the roofs and in the yard in the in and around u the the uh composting area, those you can see at the town hall in the town planning office on the second floor. We are open from 8 to 4 every day um except for Friday and it's 8 to 12 on Fridays. The videos that you just saw today, those are on the website and you can watch those at home on your computer or you know for wherever from your phone as well. I believe

Mr. Chairman, we did um receive other videos. We received a video from from um John's attorney as well as um a PowerPoint presentation and they wish to they asked if we could show the video first. Would you like for me to bring that? Yes. Would you mind if I preface that video? Absolutely. Uh you if you wish to get to the

Okay. Uh my name is Mo Banville and uh I do some work with John Melo um trying to uh determine ways that the farm can move into the future looking towards sustainability um increased uh revenues, some automation and diversify operations and move the farm from the past into the future. I started working with John about 2016. Um, he gives me different assignments. Uh, I worked on the, uh, upcoming PowerPoint presentation. And, uh, I'm here to discuss the permit application John Melo has pending before the board and what came of those efforts. A lot of options.

I would like to um,

before I get into it, read uh this letter from John's original application. Our new agricultural building at 89 Chase Row would allow us to continue to depackage our animals food supply while bringing our employees out of the elements. Unwanted foods which may not be suitable for humans will be depacked and prepared as feed for the cattle. any food not suitable for the cattle's diet would be composted on the Beet Bluff Farms state permitted compost facility. So I thought with what what I saw um in the previous meeting, I thought the most effective way to describe to the board and to the interested people in the audience was to show you exactly what John is proposing. To that end, I prepared a video will which will introduce you to the an automation upgrade called the Tiger DAC which is being adopted and installed at farms throughout the country. And I hope this helps everyone better understand what exactly the project is and what it's designed to do. So, if you could run that Is the sound? I'm not sure. Unfortunately, we can play the sound. Doesn't pick it up on the mic.

mix in the feed. This is showing a farm hand manually preparing the feed for the cows. And this is uh food waste that comes in and is uh separated from the boxes and put into the troughs for the for the uh cattle. John brought this idea back to his his group of consultants. Um and we 100% agree that this is a uh big step towards automation and lowering feed costs and increasing uh revenue coming into the farm.

Hi, I'm Nick Kos with Everse. Separating packaging from organics is a necessity and nothing does it. Tiger packaging system. This one machine can feed, separate and process your organics into a wet or dry output. This you have got to see. For starters, the Tiger is a plug-andplay machine. All functionality is fully integrated on a single chassis, which means it takes up very little space in your facility. And that's a big deal, especially when floor space is scarce. At the heart of the Tiger is the unique high-speed vertical mill with these bolted on paddles. The massive centrifugal force generated here extracts organics through a/2 in or 3/4 in screen. The organic fraction comes out over 99% contaminant free and can be recycled or repurposed through composting, converted into renewable energy in an AD system or used as nutrients for animal feed. The Tiger also recovers the packaging so it too can be reclaimed for recycling. Paper, plastic, metal, and even cardboard are decontaminated and repurpose ready with no additional processing required. And no, even dealing with nasty food waste doesn't make a mess. The Tiger's stainless steel construction and automatic cleaning cycle keep the process sanitary. A second feed auger in the hopper keeps material flowing smoothly into the mill, preventing bridging by automatically reversing at programmable intervals. The Tiger provides both wet and dry organic discharge options, which can be toggled with the flip of a switch. Need to add water? That too can be dialed in with precision. The large Open Hopper makes loading the Tiger easy so your operators can spend more time processing and less time loading. Adding a Tiger Dackaging system to your operation greatly

increases the services you can offer, generating more revenue and decreasing overhead expenses like transportation costs. This is the actual commissioning of the uh machine that is installed at 89 Chase Road. Packaged material is sent into the machine and this is the result. 99.9% clean animal feed. Okay. The The machine was shut down uh after that commissioning and hasn't run since, but it is ready to go um pending uh an occupancy permit and a special permit from the town.

Thank you.

I think we're going to go into the PowerPoint now. Absolutely. One second to share back a couple. We were testing it.

Sorry about that.

Okay. Yeah. The actual uh name of the facility is an animal feed and organics management facility. and we're conving food waste for a sustainable future. One of the things we try to do in our meetings is is uh develop a sustainable long-term approach to the farm um that will lead to a sustainable future. Uh, one of the things we needed to do was uh develop a long-term consistent uh lowcost feed for the animals. And one of the ways we do that is converting food waste. Um, it complies with the the EPA directive. Food waste cannot go into landfills anymore. So this this takes a good portion of um food waste and runs it through the machine and it files the hierarchy. As you can see the uh food waste scale uh feed animals, compost and anorobic digestion are three of the top uses we looked into. We looked into um the ability of the local roads to handle this material coming in on trucks. I spoke to uh Mass DOT and uh Spread which did the uh initial uh work at the interchange down by 140. Um it is classified as a minor arteria road which is more than adequate uh to handle the type of truck traffic that's going to be coming in. And uh the

daily truck traffic of uh estimated 40 uh truck trips a day is going to be less than 1% 1% of the average daily road traffic that's coming down Chase Road. Go to the next one, please. Thank you.

Okay. the uh the DPAC you you equip uh equipment that you saw operates at a very uh low decibel level. Uh for example, a residential vacuum cleaner is at 70 dBA. A uh the machine when it's operational is 68.4 dBA. It's all powered by electricity and uh offers benefits such as reduced emissions, noise reduction, and lower operating cost. The the the DPAC facility, as I show it in the uh in the video, is um is 100% enclosed uh 4 in of insulation, closed cell R15 foam for fireproofing and to uh control operational sound levels. As the materials come in, the doors close behind it. They don't open again until that material goes uh back out or the truck is emptied. The operation is located one quarter of a mile from the Chase closest to Butters. Is that correct, John? About quarter mile.

Yeah, a little more.

And it matches with multiple commercial businesses currently established along Chase Road. As you can see from the uh the video that we showed, this facility is is at its own site in the middle of a working cattle farm. Uh amidst all the associated farming and agricultural odors, sights and sounds, the delivered food product does not come to us spoiled. It comes out of uh cold storage and they call when they have to move something off. It might be offsp spec, might have fallen off the rack. Whatever it is, they'll call us and ask us if we can handle it. So, it is not spoiled. It's coming from cold storage. We operate first in first out inventory management. It prevents materials from sitting on site for extended periods of time. We have a very efficient offloading and material processing allows the product to move quickly from the loading docks through the tipping area to the processing area. The daily facilities and equipment washdown procedures with commercial grade cleaning products are in place. Emergency spill cleanup response uh procedures are in effect and the East Freetown Fire Department is located less than two miles away. So I just want to add to that slide that so the key part of it is that when the food products come in they're not being dumped on the ground and left in piles for days or a long time that then they would rot and create smells. The trucks come into the loading bays. The product gets taken off the trucks and go into the machine. So it's an immediate process. So, it's not like a composting situation where piles of things sit outside, decompose, and create odors.

Yeah. There's going to be a number of different ways the material comes in. It could it could be uh fresh produce, which might come in gaylords, which is very easy to handle. It can be brought right out as feed for the animals. Um, some is going to be in cardboard boxes like you saw in the video. Um, that will be inspected to see if it's appropriate for the animals. If it is, it'll go through the deack machine. If it's not, it'll be put to the side. It'll be run through later after the animal feed is run and that can be used for anorobic digestion uh or go to compost. Uh we try to operate a zerowaste facility. Uh nothing is handled on site. Everything goes off site in sealed containers um or to animal feed. So there's no food outside of the building. Okay, it's fully enclosed as we've gone over. Uh weekly pest control service um using in integrated pest management solutions is contracted facility and vehicles are fully contained and tarped. Okay. All all uh employees are trained in odor abatement plans. Next, please.

Sorry. Okay. The the management of the volume at the uh DPAC facility is not 40 truckloads full of food coming in every day. Mr. Chairman, point of information. This is second time each put out. So, it's not 40 trucks. It's 40 one way and 40. You got 80 truck loads on a street. It's 40 visits. Okay. Can we make our presentation? We're gonna let them finish. I understand 40 trucks coming, 40 trucks going. If it's the same truck, it's a truck. Hold on.

If it's If it's If it's a truck in and a truck out, that's a truck. No switch drivers or anything. So, it's 40 truck. No, it's it's 40 physical trucks. They come and they go. Each one has 10 ties. So if you got one road and 40 trucks go out to that road, then 40 more come the other way. I count 80 trucks on that road. Exactly. Basic math, right? Am I missing something or Okay. All right. We're going to allow him to continue. Thank you.

So not every truck is going to be full. Uh trucks can come in with 800 pounds of material. Truck comes can come in with a,000 pounds of material. Trucks can come in with, you know, two tons of material. These trucks are not packed to go over the road with this material. These trucks are carrying stuff out of a cold storage. So, whatever they pack on the truck is what we take off. All appropriate food tonnage uh received for the truck visits will be depackaged and used on site to supply animal feed to Beach Bluff Farm cattle and other cattle local farms as needed. Any excess depaged food or slurry will be hauled off uh site using sealed vehicle and delivered to anorobic digestion facilities for conversion to renewable energy sources. Any depacked outthrow and trash is captured in a self-contained vessel and transported offsite for disposal. corrugated cardboard material like you saw going in. That cardboard will be salvaged and hauled off site for disposal or upycling opportunities. Tires, glass, metals are not accepted as part of the de depackaging facility process. All pallets will be stored in trailers and haul offsite when full. No more outside storage. The previous uh handling of the seaatch clay and parada contract has been terminated. So that in a nutshell is what we're looking for.

I just want to add a couple things about this slide. Um if we can just go back one more again. You want me to go back? You know, right there. No, that's right there. Oh, no. Next one. Sorry. That's okay. I think we're going backwards. Did we do those already? Yes, we did. Okay. Sorry. No, this one the volume. Yes. Okay.

So, the point there where it says no tires, glass or metals will um you know come into the property, that's true. I just want to respond to something that came up that I saw at the last hearing talking about um slaughterhouse waste. No slaughterhouse waste is coming on the property. That's a regulated hazardous material and you need special uh permits to, you know, process those things that we're not ever going to get. have no interesting interest in getting. Um, so I I just wanted to mention that because it came up last time, but we are certainly not taking truckloads of waste from a slaughter house and processing any of that material. We're not allowed to do that. We're never going to seek a special permit from D to do that. So, I just wanted to add that because we left that part out.

Have a couple questions. One second. Is are is the presentation done? Is your presentation? That's it. Okay. Yeah.

All right. So, as far as uh volume is kind of my next question, too. So, to feed the farms, and you might not know this today. If you don't, it's fine. You come back with it. To feed the farms you have on your on your farm now, how much volume? And I understand that if if you take in a certain amount if you take in a certain amount of food, it doesn't necessarily I know what's a cow 50 pounds. 50 pounds a feed of average. All right. I know it 50 pounds of food coming in might not make 50 pounds of feed package in water and soups. I get that. Liquids.

So, how much of the actual feed do you need for your cows on the farm? Well, I'd like to grow my herd first. Yeah. And my next question today's today and then we'll Yeah. you know, um, and I wouldn't want to, uh, not feed my neighbors. I'm going to get to a few more questions. I'm just trying to break it down into simple. So, I think the the part about the amount of I don't know, we'll call it the weight of the food coming in. I think it's difficult as related to the number of trucks.

Okay. Just because there's there could be the same amount of food product on three trucks as there are on 10 trucks coming in. The trucks don't come in packed full all the time. That's what I'm trying to get at. Right. Right. Right. So I know that's what I'm trying to get at cuz it we don't obviously no one knows which which way this permit's going. Right. But if you wouldn't want it restricted by trucks, you would want it restricted by pounds. No. Correct. No. No, we want it restricted by trucks because okay, 40 is kind of the number that we would look for for high volume times.

The average amount of trucks per day is not going to be 40. It's probably somewhere between 15 and 20, you know, give or take. Like, don't hold me to that cuz there's sometimes we don't get enough food for even my cows. Okay.

We went through a little drought and uh that's when I realized how important it was to some of the other farms. A a cow's diet, you can't just instantly change the diet and I wouldn't want to and I I realized how important it is this last slowdown. So, I guess my question would be I I understand you would want to do it by trucks, but if 40 trucks came in with two pallets a piece, that obviously wouldn't be enough. Correct. Yeah. But if 40 trucks came in full, you would have excess. I'm trying to get a

it. It's up and down. You can't no guarantee because you can't because the trucks come to us as they come based on whatever the food waste is where the where the origin is.

Yes. Um so it it it comes as it comes. We cannot tell you know for example stop and shop you know we'll only take x amount because you gave us x amount yesterday and we can only take x amount today. I think the truck trips is what matters and then we you know you make enough food for the onsite animals. the excess that can be fed to animals John gives to, you know, the surrounding farms and the people he has a relationship with. Any excess doesn't get stored at the farm. Um it can go into compost, but I think we got to talk about that at the next hearing with um the composting hearing. And then um anything that's excess of that um whether it's for the animals or can't be used for the animals gets taken off site to uh anorobic digestion where they create electricity from the product you know that we supply. Okay.

But that's a small yes but the main purpose of this operation is to feed John's animals and then second purpose is surrounding farms. The anorobic digestion is just like kind of the last ditch option to get rid of whatever excess that we can't keep on the farm because we're not going to be there's no we're not going to be storing a bunch of this stuff that we don't use. It all goes out whether to the animals or anorobic digesting. Okay. If you can kind of Sure. I I mean help me with my question. I guess

Robinstein um KP Law or town council. So I'm I want to be able to help the board like formulate and my understanding of what hap what's happening here is a volume of food is coming in and priority of that is going to the animals but above that there's a delta that's just a commercial business at this point. It's there it is either being resold for um electricity like you said. So you give that away. There's no revenue. So sometimes when you go to the anorobic digtor they do pay you sometimes they don't. That depends on

what they go have going on at their you know facility and stuff like that. The primary purpose is not to make money from anorobic digest. It's not as the primary purpose it's the issue. It's that you are proposing to be allowed to take in more than you need to run your farm. Right? Because the amount to run your farm, that's agricultural, right? So, this special permit is above and beyond what's necessary to run the farm. It's still feeding the farm. It's still agricultural. Well, let her let her ask her question and then we'll answer it. It's not You're monetizing, and this is what I'm trying to understand. Where are we monet We're not selling the feed. We're not

You want to be able to finish your sentences? I want to be able to finish my sentences. So this is what I'm trying to understand because my second meeting here and I I'm still not hearing it in a way that I understand even what you're proposing and so I'm feeling difficult in advising the board about how to apply their bylaw and how the use applies and just the words in the bylaw apply because it's still unclear to me. So let's start with this. You take the food from stop a child. Do they pay you a fee to take the food? Yes.

Okay. So there is um money that you receive just to take the food, which is great because then you can feed your cows for free and and there's money associated with that. If you take in more volume than you need to feed your cows, now that's a commercial component of taking that in. You're then recycling above and beyond what you need to feed the farm. So there's a commercial component to taking a higher volume and then some of it is going either to friends, some of it is going to I heard um cardboard offsite for upycling, renewables, increasing farm revenues. So there appears to be and I don't have a clear picture of it right now a commercial recycling component of the operation that's happening there that is above and beyond what is being used on site for the farm.

Yeah. So two things. So that that is what the special permit is for. And I'm still having a hard time quantifi understanding or having you quantify. So maybe you can help us like what that is. What's the volume of that? Because if if the board were to grant this, I imagine they would say, "Look, we we clearly understand like this is the volumes whether it's by truck or weight or whatever whatever we come to and you can tell us what makes the most sense for the board and you guys can talk about that. None of it's up to me. I just want to understand it so I can help them. You know th this much is agriculture that's your as 483 as right you can do it this is the part that's the commercial operation above and beyond that and and how does the board quantify that how do they say okay look you can always do whatever is necessary to run your farm the special permit is limited to x amount above that whether it's structures volumes whatever it is because that is the commercial business that you're running it sounds like above and beyond the farm operations the farm operations are what happens on the farm So receiving payments, tipping fees essentially to take in what would otherwise be waste and then recycling that into other things all sounds great, but it is commercial. And so what we need to understand is where does the farm end, where does a commercial business begin, and then what are the volumes you're requesting by special permit permission to do? And I I don't normally jump in like this, but I feel like we're just not we're not getting there. So if you can help with that.

So the general difficulty I think we're having is that this whole time and before even these board hearings that we consider this an agricultural process. I understand you consider an agricultural process.

That's why we applied for the building permit for an agric agricultural building before we got the building permit. Mr. Melo sent a you know letter to the building department in a general way describing what we were going to do. But two direct answers to your question is just because there's money involved doesn't mean it's not agricultural. What makes it not agricultural is that you are running a business that is that you're proposing to operate a commercial operation that fits within a definition in the zoning bylaw for commercial recycling that is unrelated to what's necessary to run the farm. Just because your client has a farm doesn't mean they can run three times the amount of volume above and beyond and for offsite use and off-site recycling. And so again, the letter the building inspector said is what you need to do to run your farm, you run your farm. That's none of our business. If you're going to have a commercial business essentially on top of that, then there's a line that it crosses. And so your client's taking in volumes above what he needs to run his farm without question or you wouldn't be here. Right. If if you were only taking in the volumes necessary to feed your cows on site with even some delta to grow your herd, I don't think we'd be here. Right.

Well, no. I think we're here because the building commissioner told us we had to come. No, that's not what the building commissioner did not. The building commissioner wrote a letter and he said,

"Yes, he did. you have great volumes coming in and if it's just agriculture that's fine. If it's beyond agriculture, it's commercial recycling and you need a permit. Are you are you taking the position that just because there's a farm on site, anything else that they they want to do, they can do on the name of the farm because farming is running commercial agriculture on the site. So taking in say double that you need to run your farm because you receive tipping fees for those and then are able to and this is great. I'm not criticizing the business in any way, but from a legal perspective, it sounds to me like what's happening is more than is necessary to run the farm is coming in to make a profit and then those materials are being recycled on site and either reused on site into the mulching, which is a reuse, or they're going offsite for renewable energy or upcycling. And that is commercial.

And so it's not farming. Those are options, but the pro the primary use is to feed the on-site cattle and give it away to the other farms. I don't think there's a requirement.

So, back to my original point and everybody on the board, I think, and I would like to know in order to advise them, but I'm not going to speak for the board, but it would be helpful to me then to actually understand what is the volume of the farm use and what is the volume beyond the farm use that your client is proposing to do. So the way you control that and you know we have a list of potential conditions I was planning to talk about later but the way you control that is by the number of trucks because we don't know what's coming in some and John said this before sometimes trucks will come in and it's not even enough for his own animals.

So how many trucks a week on average does your I think you to per day on average. Yeah, you said 15 to 20.

15 to 20, but it, you know, it might be more during busy seasons. Like, for example, right now it's a busy season because everyone has pumpkins they're trying to get rid of. So, a lot of pumpkins are going to come in. There's going to be more trucks. It's not going to be 40 trips every day. But, um, we use the number 40 as the number we'd like just so we had a ceiling and that we will not violate. And the way that's how the board can control how much um comes in. It's it's it's impossible to hold us to a you know tonnage amount. We don't have a scale at the property and you know as a practical matter for a condition in a special permit. I don't even know how that's enforceable frankly. You know I don't think the building department has a scale measuring trucks. Um, so the way you do it is cap the number of trucks and then whatever comes in, you know, sometimes it's not great for us, sometimes there's a little more, you'll give some away and whatever we can't use, we'll send off to anorobic digestion and, you know, like I said, we'll talk about the composting at the December hearing, but some of it can go into the composting so long as that stays on the farm.

So, one followup question. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. So, you're saying 15 to 20 is what you need for the farm for the animals. No, that's just the average average of how many trucks come per day in general. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more. Help me if I have to help the board write a decision. Yeah.

That says this is the amount that the applicant and it can be by trucks. It doesn't have to be by tonnage, but this is a number that the applicant says is the agricultural use. This is the number the applicant is asking for permission to have above that. Yeah. So, we can't So, the problem is, and I understand it's a little difficult, but we can't say, "Yeah, we'll accept 15 trucks because if 15 trucks come in and they're and five of those trucks have one pallet of food on it, then that's not the that's not enough, you know." So that might happen on a on a day anyway, but I think, you know, 40 truck trips as a cap is, you know, makes sense to us because that's not what we're going to do every single day. We just don't we won't exceed that. But I'm, you know, in busier times or to make up for a slow week, you get more, you know, a couple days later. I mean, it it's hard to measure how much we need because we don't know on a daily basis how much comes in per truck. So you would be comfortable though and you're saying 40 truck trips a day or 40 truck trips a week?

A day. So what you're looking for then is a special permit that would let you have 40 truck trips as a cap. Yeah. Okay. So I mean getting to those clear numbers I think will be helpful to the board. That's okay.

We're happy to talk about that. It's not an all or nothing proposition. We're happy to discuss. you know, we might have missed a step here because I don't think you so I'm under the impression after speaking with in legal counsel uh between meetings that as far as for agricultural use as far as the board's concerned and we are not the zoning enforcement officer. As far as the board's concerned, that machine can be used if it's being for food for the farm, the farm itself with nothing else. No compost, no no extra. Just let me let me finish. That machine can be used currently right now without a special permit to feed the farm.

Well, no, because we don't have an occupancy permit for the building. So, we can't use it for that per for that reason. That's what you have to take up with the zoning, but we believe you don't need a special permit to feed your farm. So, what we're trying to do is ask you, okay, we know that you might want to throw some in the composting or feed your neighbors or the other farms. We have a few left. That's what we're trying to get to because and again, as far as legal counsel is concerned, you can use that machine to take care of your own farm. And correct me if I'm Yeah. No, I mean I mean I think generally the agricultural component of this is not before those poor It's a world. It's not what?

So we're the agricultural component, you running your farm, at least in my opinion. And Nelson can I I I don't agree. I don't agree. He's agreed for a special permit. We're not looking at agricultural use at this point. Whether he agrees to to apply for a special permit or not, our legal counsel is telling us that he can use that machine for his farm. Well, not anything extra. Well, I mean, look, if he doesn't have an occupancy, that's a different issue. An occupancy permit. Yeah, but it's for that reason. It's tied to Hold on. It's tied to that reason. That's that's why we don't have it.

Well, that might be a conversation to have later. Again, the letter that I saw said you built this thing. We don't exactly know what it's in essence that you built this the the I'm afraid of the shed. You have this machine. The building commissioner doesn't know the volumes you're doing. He can't tell if it's purely agricultural, if it's commercial, if if it's what have you. I don't think there's any question that under 483 you have you don't need a special permit to run a farm but if what you're doing from and I think you know the building commissioner brought up last time from volume's perspective if what you're doing isn't just running a farm it's running a farm and then it's also using the same equipment to run purely commercial activities that may even have a similar nature to the farm then that seems like something that you need

it it's not the case that I don't I'm making this up in the morning we're processing stuff for the farm and in the afternoon we're running a commercial operation to you know do other things. It's all one process and what the farm needs for the cow stays and if there's extra he gives it away or goes to anorobic digestion or maybe the compost pile. I I think I think that's I think that's the problem here where and to your question about how do we know um how many trucks you need for the farm and how many trucks you need for the rest of it. It's hard to pin that down because we could get 10 trucks that's not enough for the farm or we could get 10 trucks that is enough for the farm and enough to you know give away the rest of neighboring farms based on how much comes in per truck wherever the origin source is. We don't control how much product comes in from, you know, the stop and shop processing facility.

Well, you could say no, right?

We could say no. Yeah, sure. We could definitely say no. Um, you know, if if it was, but for an example, if you were to allow 40 truck trips, if it was the 41st truck, we'd say no. Um, but you also want to keep a stream going and, you know, a relationship with the people that you're working with. So, we don't want to say no if it's only a little bit. if there's only 10 trucks that day and the 11th truck has two pallets of food, we'll take it. So, that's why it's hard to pin down the exact amount. It's really the truck trips that I think gives the board, you know, the way to regulate how much is going on um in here. And, you know, if the special permit is for a true commercial use, it doesn't really, and you might disagree, but to me it doesn't really matter 20 trucks for the farm and 20 trucks for the rest. We don't know how much is coming in on those trucks. So if you just cap it at a total amount, we'll use everything we can for the farm because that's the primary reason why Mr. Melo got the machine then to give it away and then you know to go to anorobic digestion whatever is um separate if they need a special if we need a special permit for those extras. That's fine but there might be extras. It's hard to quantify how much it changes literally every single day. And it's not trying to avoid your question. I just can't give you a number. There's no way to give you a precise tonnage of food and how much you know is going to go to the cows on each day because it depends on what comes into the property.

Mr. Chair, go ahead, sir.

Mr. Chairman, so let's see what we have. We have a building that for as long as Mr. Mel was at a farm, no problem. I get his guys are out in the weather. That's a tough job to be out doing that. He wants to bring them in. Good. That's a farming use. That's a good thing. But we're looking to bring an electric in to a sort. It's going to take more volume. So we're not getting more cows. We're just bringing more stuff in. So more volume, more mechanicalism, more conveyor belts. Um, so what is the reason for if you already if if you got to know how much you're going to take in to invest a million dollars into a machine, right? That takes money. You have to you have to put a business plan together. So I think we could probably guess how much we need to feed our cows. That's easy. And what we expect to have left over and what our profit's going to be from that. How can you not have those numbers if you're going to run a business? Again,

I think the notion that just because this is a machine on the property and there's not a that doesn't mean it's an so that it's not an agricultural use is just like absurd. Nobody's saying that. I I think he kind of did just say that. He just said that. No, he said having the machine gives you the ability to have greater volumes. So, he didn't say per se having a machine countered convey his again I So, by the way, the whole permit process, right? We're here applying for a specific thing. Um, we're talking about truck trips, but there's other conditions that we're willing to be imposed on that we can talk about. We can't expand any of those operations unless we came back in the future to seek a modification.

This is not something that can it's impossible for this thing to grow out of control. Um, you know, we can talk about the other conditions that, you know, we thought would be reasonable that confines days, hours, truck trips, materials that we can be taking in. like we're willing to have all those things. Um and and I think that's how the board controls the operation, you know, and if it spins out of control, which it won't and we have no intent to do, then there's enforcement, all that stuff. So, you can confine the entire um activity based on, you know, the conditions you put in the decision. And we're open to that. We're not here to argue against being conditioned. We came with a list that we're willing to talk to you about

to confine our operation. And you said uh sometimes you're short. You don't have enough currently. And that's with approximately 20 an average of 20 trucks. Sometimes you're short on feed. Right. You said 15 to 20 on an average day. I'm saying about stretch it out. We we shut everyone else off and and use it for yourself. But sometimes we don't have enough. Yep. Try to supplement it with hay and which is costly. Have you ever uh had a problem where you had too much? You had no place to get rid of it? Never. Okay. No. Thank you.

Guys have questions before we bring them out. Yeah. Yeah. Uh go ahead. Hi. Um, you keep saying that, uh, introduce yourself again for the Sorry, Margaret French Border Health. Um, I just had a couple of questions about how exactly all of this works. I keep hearing some trucks come with just one pallet or maybe two pallets. How often does that happen? On average on a day, do you get a bunch of trucks with just Yeah, you could. Yeah, it's it I mean some you know you a truck might come from I keep using the stop and shop example because they have a lot of stuff.

Yeah. You know it might come from a school or institution that has leftover food from a cafeteria. Maybe they have a lot of leftover food. Sometimes they don't but they have a responsibility to get rid of it. And you know we're a place that'll accept it and turn it into the food for the animals. So it's it's really hard to pin down. two times a day a truck comes with only whatever one pallet of food. We just don't we just don't You would consider that a common thing that a truck would come with only one pallet.

Well, lately I I will say Stop and Shop has gone through a spell that sometimes these trailers are coming in not even half full, which is to me dangerous to the herd. So you don't know. You don't know. Okay. And how does this do do trucks just show up or do they call first and ask if they

We usually know what's going on. They usually like you're going to have a a little bit of a surge around Fourth of July. Uh people having cookouts, so you're going to get more fruit and vegetable remnants. Um Labor Day. But the point is, but my question is day by day, do you know what trucks are coming in? Do they call in schedule? Yes. Yes. So you know what how many trucks and what trucks are coming in? Do they tell you how much is in each truck? No. Not usually. No. Okay. So there's no way to control until they're actually there. You've got enough or you don't have enough.

Correct. Okay. Thank That's why we said I mean 40 would be the cut off, you know, and then that's it. I think it's based on the general averages they've seen that 40 is kind of the high water mark of if you're having a slow day then that's you know maybe if you have if you have that if there's even that many trucks that want to come that's not always it's not that every day that we're getting 40 requests but it just it gives you a chance to get what you need if you know. Did he say that? Yep. Is it in the 40? So, right now 20 trucks a day. Is that on seven days a week or

Well, no. So, this is part of what you know we wanted to talk about with conditions. Um I'm happy to talk about it now just because you asked. So, in a week, Monday to Saturday, nothing on Sunday and Saturday is a half day. Okay. If anything, because we do sometimes get a couple of trailers from Stop and Shop.

Yeah. and and I I I can give a point of reference on how stop and shop trucks come with my uh service at the food pantry there. Sometimes they stack it to the end. Sometimes we get four ballots in the truck. So I I can say that. Um hold on. So all right. I thought it would be easier if there was a way to do the tonnage or something after it was uh processed. We got saying that's probably not Oh, it can't happen that way. Okay.

You don't know what you're getting for material. I mean, if it's corn chips, just go up right up there. Sure.

Hi, my uh name is uh Richard Freigh. Been in the trash industry all my life. Been in the farming industry all my life. um very familiar with composting. Um I think we seem to be going round and round about the same things. The things that we we really have to consider is the material that's coming in is a product that um either stop and shop can't use for a higher and better use. So they might when they get this stuff back from the store, they might process apples or uh watermelons or whatever into a fruit salad. So they're not going to uh uh uh send that off for uh for feed or for composting. They're going to use it for the best use they have. So you might get a truck with a half a load with with half uh uh filled boxes. You might get full boxes. It's all depending on what they're doing at that particular time. You know, as was mentioned, you know, there are certain times of the year where like if if any of the people in here are farmers, when you farm and you plant tomatoes, you plant tomatoes based on, you know, spreading them out over a period of time so that your product uh becomes ripe over a period of time. But I don't care what you do. If you grow tomatoes, at some point in time, all the tomatoes ripen. You can't sell them. You know, you have to do something with them. Um, so that's why it's so hard to uh uh um predict what the volume is. It's potato chips. It's, you know, cookies. It's It could be watermelons, uh pumpkins, uh you know, and depending on what it is, like a a watermelon is mostly water weight. you're not getting a lot of usable material for the cows. A lot of it is

water. Um so some of that is is uh is what they're talking about. One of the things that you know um concerns me the most is about farming. Um and we're kind of heading down a slope. I mean what do we do with cranberry growers? They don't use all their cranberries on that on that farm. They sell the cranberries as a product for for uh for funds for revenue. Hay farmers, most of the hay farmers, and there's a couple guys in here that grow hay and it's for their cattle, but what do they do with the excess hay? I mean, we're kind of like, you know, segregating certain types.

Unfortunately, we have a bylaw on your question. We have a bylaw that says if there's extra, Mr. Chairman, so that that's produced on the farm. The hay comes from the farm. They're not comparing apples to apples. It's two different things. Taking material from outside and saying it's through the farm and it goes back out as production. That's a total different uh scenario.

But that product that's coming from outside is coming in to make food for animals. the the I think the thing that we got to look at is that what the product coming in in for is going to be used for the highest and best use. The highest and best use would be for animal feed. you know, composting or anorobic digestion uh is kind of like the bottom end. And like when you do get those surges where you know, you might get an excess amount of pumpkins, uh that's probably would get diverted either to compost or or digestion. But, you know, a lot of this stuff is uh it's like baking a cake. I mean, you can't just feed uh an animal, you know, all tomatoes or all watermelons, you know, and that's a good part about what this machine does is you can mix different materials in the feed to increase the quality of the feed. Um, so I I mean hopefully I didn't, you know, confuse you any more than you are. Um, but that's really the biggest reason why I mean you can get a a it's hard to put a a number on what it is. you know, 40 trucks. Uh, you know, basically we're we're feeding most of the the own uh the animals, you know, but uh I don't know how uh you could say, you know, if you get 10 tons of watermelons, let's say, you don't get the beneic uh beneficial use out of it like you might get 10 tons of corn chips. And you know, corn chips aren't gonna break down into liquid, which you're gonna lose, you know, 80% of that of that product. You know, a corn chip is going to stay. It's dry. It stays together. It's a it's a it's a good feed product, but we don't get enough corn

chips to feed the cattle. Right. Thank you, Mr. Go ahead, sir. If I may. So uh through uh uh the attorneys. So did we get a study from the state about what the impact of the trucks will have the it? So I don't know what that means. So that's a study from the state that says what you're trying to do will have some impact and what impact if negative or or otherwise on on the infrastructure of the town you're working in. Did you get an EA EAT uh study completed? No, we don't require it. Thank you. We're off of a public street. We're allowed to use it. What's that? I'm sorry. We're off of a public way. We're allowed to use it like everyone else in the

But you're going to use the public way to get back and forth. So, it's important to the business plan to have that material and that information for the board to have before them. You don't agree. What we said is that it's about 1% of the what the right but you have a formula. You plug that in. You have something from the state says here's your report. You have you don't have that report. We have the the measurement of the total truck traffic and our Specifically, EAT is is the estimated truck engineering study they do for the state. You need to have that and we've had other applications. Where does it say that we need to have that? Well, I I would I've seen another application of this type of No, you seem confident. So, why don't you tell me where we need to get that from? Well, I I will. We're going to order We're going to move on from that for a minute. The trucks.

I have a question. Go ahead, Dave. When uh when you run out of food, what do what do you do? Call up the feed store and have them bring a couple trucks down? No, we've actually experienced that this time uh this year and we've either had to buy feed or we try to act buy extra hay and supplement it with hay and everything till the next day hopefully a truck comes. But you still have to have some vehicle bring that in. Correct. Additional hay. Yes, sir. Yes. One one more final question. So, uh no, I got the floor.

Excuse me. Go ahead, sir. um the the leftover for a digtor. Do you have a would you have a schedule of when that would be picked up and moved out daily? That's not it's nothing is to be kept there process that's going out. Mr. Chairman, I have something

and just can I can I just talk about that for one second? And so when we talk about truck trips, we're we're including that within the truck trip count. It's not just deliveries. It's if if a um a steel tank needs to come in to take out the you know material for the anorobic digestion, that would count as a truck trip. Um so you know, we're using the number 40, but some of some number of that 40 will be for ancillary things uh you know to support the operation. Go ahead, sir. One more question. So, 40 trucks a day and we have seven docks at that building. Who who figured out we needed seven docks? Somebody must have had a number in mind. How many docks we need to run this business? Well, I don't know what that has to do.

You just build them because you we figured seven's good enough. We applied for a building permit that was approved and we built the building that we applied for. Well, I'm just So, that would have been a good question at that time. Could I just I I don't really want to keep talking over the same thing, but we need to answer those questions that you have the docks that you approved, right? Some of those are going to stay for empty pallets because I have neighbors that don't want the pallets outside. Some are going to have hay. Some are going to have it's a way for us to unload. Good question. Hopefully I answer that.

I I would possibly think that some of those trucks would you need a study if if part of that's agricultural anyways? Some of those trucks not even count bylaw require a traffic study? I don't think it does. I don't think it's enough. So the I mean the bylaw and if anyone wants to refer to it, it's section 3002.5 actually contains the special permit, you know, conditions and findings in it. Um and so, you know, we can refer to that for what the board thinks it needs to potentially make the findings that are

in the bylaw. But um you know, then that's what I thought. If we could figure out what was the agricultural part of it would be helpful, but they're saying you can't. So if you can't split it up that way, you can you know that it's more on the applicant, I think. Yeah. Uh you had So I mean one of I was just going to say so I mean just

we provided you information about the truck trips. Attorney uh Burke has explained that last meeting and this meeting. I suppose it's in the board's discretion whether to accept that or not, but it's in line with the information we're providing. I don't think anywhere there's you know some high level you know state involved traffic study that's required for a special permit application. So what the bylaw says it's sub paragraph E and 300 2.5 is just that it's the applicant's responsibility to demonstrate that the requested use will not create unmitigated traffic congestion or safety issues and provides enhanced pedestrian mobility which we're comfortable with what we've telling the board the standard

answer question that's a standard bylaw question the uh the extra stuff that goes to the digestive you must have that they must weigh it, right? To to give you a a price of what you're going to pay to get rid of it, right? No. No. So, it's not just charge you by the truckload or No, it's not weighed. What it is is if you go in with the Can you go to a microphone when you just cuz uh it's on Zoom and it's on

Yeah. Sorry. Uh it is not weighed. So what happens is if you go to the depending on the facility I guess you go to the fac facilities that I'm aware of if you have a thousandgalon tank that's what you pay for it's a flat fee this is what it is uh if you have a 10,000galon tank it's a it's a flat fee you know I mean I haven't been to any facilities where they weigh you in and weigh you out. I mean is could there be some maybe but not that I'm aware of in our area but there is a charge for

right there's a charge uh and it depends too it's like um remember I said about baking a cake uh well a a digtor is just like a a cow a person you know it's a stomach so if you feed that stomach too much ice cream what do you do if you ate nothing but ice cream all you would have a problem. Digesttor is the same thing. So based on what you have and what the volume is, it it it could change the charge and it also could uh cause them to reject the material. You would have to go to another dig. So everybody wants to try to keep um an idea of what's in that uh uh uh truck and what they're going to process. If it's uh a material that uh is more um conducive to the digestion uh facility, they might take it for free. They might give you a little bit. They're not giving you a lot.

And and just to add on that, you don't always get paid from the anorobic digesttor when you bring materials in. It depends. It's like kind of the market situation. Sometimes they need what you have and they'll pay a little for it or sometimes, you know, it's more important for us to get rid of our excess material and then they won't pay us at all. So, it's not a, you know, black and white situation where, you know, you're bringing the stuff down there and getting paid for. Mr. Chairman, there was someone on Zoom that had a question. Yeah. Get to them so we don't forget them. Yeah. Um, Dylan, are you still on? He seems to have left. Oh,

Dylan's phone. I'm sorry. When you went over, there was a Dylan. They're still there. It's a Dylan's phone. Thank you. Anyone else on the board with questions right now? No, I'm good for now. All right. So, we will Do you guys have any questions

before I open it up? I believe all of my questions were were already covered. All right. Do you have anything uh you guys want to talk about now before we open it up to uh public? Um I think there's a conversation to be had about the conditions I mentioned, but I'll leave that to you to probably do that at the

end to the public. Yeah. Um All right. All right. So, I'm going to open it up for pretty much questions that they have from anything you guys seen today or forgot to ask from last meeting. And you can just first come, first serve at the podium here.

And I just another thing I I know we speaking of conditions and stuff. We we we will talk about conditions because we only get one vote at this. Even if it gets denied, we still want to have something something ready just in case it gets approved. Hi, Mark Persovski, Chase Road. Um, I'd like to direct a couple of questions to attorney Riley, some statements he made. Um, he indicated that there is not a scale on site and the material coming into the facility is not scaled. Is that correct, sir? What? Right. Right. Yeah.

Okay. Um part of the permitting process for uh DP um is that you have to produce annual tonnage figures that you utilize on the farm. And I'm going to produce a document that shows you.

May I approach? Sure. This is a 2024 renewal application for D. You look, you'll see where that's the full file. You'll see where that indicates tonnage. Oh, yeah. See where it says tonnage, accumulated tonnage, you can enter that into the uh record, please. Doesn't want to look at this. Is that composting? I don't I don't know what that you want to see. What is Yeah, that's Yeah, it's a sweat. Oh, you got

Am I correct that the operator of this 89 Chase Road also owns a facility at 65 Chase Road which has a truck scale? We need just a moment if you want us to look at this. We can't look at it and answer a question on something else. I don't know. It's not required. So kind of question. This is getting kind of sprung on us here and this is part of the D process. I you know I well

I don't know. I don't know right now. I don't know. He indicated he indicated that there is no scale that the the weights the materials aren't scaled in. Show us

he indicated that he indicated the applicant indicated that there is a tipping fee that's charged. I'm sure he just doesn't say, "Well, it's a big truck. I'll charge x amount. It's a small truck." He's producing tonnage figures to an authoritative board, the Department of Environmental Protection. That's a document. That's a legal document. when he applies for a renewal application, he signs that under the penalties of uh truthfulness and accuracy. Okay? There's a statement at the end of that which he signs and dates. So, you know, you can't just you can't come before this board and make it up as you go along. You have to come before this board and be honest. And even if you make mistakes, even if you make if you make errors, if you're honest about those errors, I can understand the the board's compassion. But when you come up here and you have a truck scale that is 89 to 65, that close, three driveways away, give or take,

it's it's it's a fundamental misrepresentation of what he's doing because he doesn't want the board to understand the scope and potential scale of how big this operation can become. Couple other questions. Um, no. when they process this food through this new machine. Okay. Is the feed stable? Is the processed feed stable as far as shelf stable? What's the shelf life of it? It gets fed immediately that day. If you guys want to answer that, you can. If is it is it stable for four hours, 6 hours? Can it does it hold for a day? Are you ready for me?

Yes, sir. Okay. As far as what he's saying, uh I believe it was September 22nd, the state came in and closed my scale. That's why the cones when you drive by there's cones on each end. You can't go on a scale. Second of all, we do that. Uh we can bring in product and say we're going to charge you so much a pallet. Sometimes there's only one pallet, two pallets, but uh I think they want to address some of his questions. The document for the D has to do with the composting operation, not the recycling depot machine that we're

is food waste that's indicated in that. If you look at that, that's food waste that's brought in related to this application. And I would I would beg the board that it is because that food waste is the is what's going to be brought in under the recycling permit and it's either going to be fed processed and fed or is it's going to go to the commercial composting uh commercial or a composting operation either D composting or commercial composting. I'm sorry, but and if I can follow up one more paragraph because this has the ability to get very large.

Does he have contracts with sites to dispose of the surplus that he's going to take in and make to ensure that if the commercial composting facility because there's two permits here that are being considered. We're talking about the recycling now, but if that commercial composting outlet doesn't happen, what happens to all of the surplus product that's produced at this facility?

Right. So, I I will ask the uh question about um first the the shelf life, like how how long would the food hang around at the most? Uh it I want to say a day, but we usually I mean we want the bin for food for in the morning, but other than that, if there's any extra it, I'm either giving it to my neighbors or friend farmers if there was, but there hasn't been much. It's been a struggle. There was no location on the property where like tons of this stuff is being stored after it's produced from the machine.

You know, reality has to sit around for a little while until you can get to do what you need to do with it, but it's not like it's hanging out there for a week or months or anything like that. Okay. I'm sorry. Your your second question I had that one in my service. That was the question. if you want to pass. So, so what I I believe what happens again I guess it's a valid question. If the composting permit doesn't happen, what Well, that's for commercial composting. Commercial compost. We're allowed to do composting on on our property as part of the agricultural use. Okay. And and

you're asking uh you're asking for 40 trucks, right? So, so like if you're going to have extra that you're expecting to go into the composting digestion, anorobic digestion, what would happen to it if that one were if you didn't get that permit?

It can it goes to anorobic digestion and it can still be composted on the property so long as it's not a commercial operation, which by the way, we're not bagging up the compost and selling it and bringing stuff in for that purpose. So, discussion for another time. It's a different hearing, but but we're allowed to compost on our own farm property as long as it doesn't go anywhere else. And Mr. Melo uses the compost for his fields and he rotates the cows because you can't leave them in one area all year because then it destroys the ground and then you fill it around and that's what we use it for. I guess a better way of asking it too and you kind of you answered it anyways. It goes off site to the uh that place there. I'm not 100% familiar with that.

Okay. So if you had any excess that you couldn't give away to farmers, but we said that in the presentation. We already said that. I can repeat it.

And and I asked if he had contracts with, you know, outlets, so with an anor uh anorobic digestion companies, somebody who's doing I know Stop and Shop is doing some anorobic digestion. Okay. They're at capacity. They're at capacity and that's why they send it to him because they're at they they run at max capacity and you know that's their overage they they need to get rid of. So they you know they obviously don't want to pay a tipping fee if they could get rid of it and process it themselves and turn it into into energy. That would be a bad business decision by Stop and Shop. So are there are the does he have contracts to ensure that if there's an overage produced and there isn't sufficient composting ability because this is product which is above if this permit were to be granted this would be above and as the building inspector said above and the town attorney above and beyond agg farm the farming aspect of his operation. So, so what does he have the guarantees to ensure that they that that there's not an overage of composting which is creating a which is why we're here primarily.

I understand your your your question. Uh not really. First I'll say, have you ever had a problem getting rid of um any overage you had? They're waiting. The people are begging. They're waiting. And do you have is there more than one outlet you can get rid of it? uh if yes somehow had a a lot of overage. Yes. Yeah. There's multiple multiple anorobic digestion sites available to be used. It's not just one place. So Okay.

Okay. And I just want to you know and he's going to take offense to this as he did in the past. I just want to enter into the record the minutes of the water and sewer commission, the completed minute because there were two missing um of the water and sewer commission that were entered in the last meeting to this hearing different because these are two different hearings. So that was entered into the composting but it wasn't entered in there. Yeah. So I'd like to enter that. Um, also we discussed um I don't know if I need to reiterate what was discussed then his sometimes I guess I think we

asking for permission asking doing it doing it first and then asking for forgiveness. I've got an article here from 613 of 2000 in South Coast today which um involved a separate site that he owns and uh I believe it was a 43 acre site on Braley Road and it it regarded some um I guess filling of illicit filling of of land and the compliance and the compliance factors that went up along with that. We'll accept it into the record for Thank you.

Okay. Thank you.

Go ahead, sir. Whoever's next. Good evening. Uh, manual pie is Ethan Circle. Um, I do have a write up here that I'd like to read based on the evidence and testimony of previous meeting and uh, what was provided. But before that, I do have a question. So, early in the presentation, it was mentioned that you're going to follow FIFO first in first out. I'd like to have um, an understanding. He'd like to have an understanding how how you going to do that. Well, what's the plan? when the material comes in. Um, whatever is Can we just put a mic closer to him? Zoom people.

Yeah. Whatever comes in, uh, is processed as animal feed, that'll go out, uh, the next feeding, whether that's in the morning or the afternoon. If it is, uh, not deemed appropriate for animal feed, it'll go into the machine, it'll go into a sealed container, and it'll leave the building. Well, a first done, first out is something where you got your first pallet that came in and you got your last pallet that came in from your 40 trucks, right? You're telling me you're going to process no matter how much if the truck trailers are full, you're going to be process that in one day. And if not, the next trailer next day comes in. How do you ensure that you are following FIFO? What's the plan? That's not a plan.

The plan is that Yeah, we we're going to have sealed containers. Hold on. Can we have the questions go through the chair? We're not going to argue with you. That's fine. That's fine. So, we'd like a plan because FO, in order to follow FIFO, you have to have a plan, right? How can you determine what was the first pallet submitted on day one to the last p last pallet submitted on day five? If you don't process through everything, how can you ensure that you're following FIFO? If you don't have a plan, the plan is when things come in, they get processed. What happens when Sorry. Go ahead. I I don't know. You know, I think it kind of speaks for itself, honestly. No, it does not. What happens when it doesn't get processed and you have more coming in? How do you determine what was first and what was last? Who would like Mr.

Afraids? Who's going to answer the question for you? Yes, I think I can answer that.

The way that the equipment is and the reason why they're requesting 40 trucks, if we had 40 full trucks come in, it could be handled in that day. Period. there won't be anything left over. And if there was anything left over, whatever is left over will be processed first. Because if we get 40 trucks on Monday, doesn't mean we're going to get 40 trucks on Tuesday. So if if we can pro if we can process 40 trucks, that would mean we would have to get 42 43 trucks. If we're committing to taking 40 trucks, that's not going to be an issue. But if the 40 trucks came in full and the machine could not process it, then a couple trucks would get uh uh laid over for the next day and get processed. But if we get five trucks the next day, we we've handled the problem. We don't have an overage of of material to process. So, I mean, yeah, if we were getting 40 full trucks every day, you know, we would have to come up with some sort of a plan to do that, but the machine will handle 40 full trucks a day. We just we I don't think we'd ever get that much material. I would hope that we would, and I would hope that we'd have 2,000 cows instead of whatever is available right now. But um you can't grow, you know, uh 10 million barrels of cranberries on a 1 acre piece. You know, you you want more cranberry bogs to grow more berries, and that's what we're doing. You know, we can't get we can't get more cows until we have the feed to support the cows.

Hopefully that answered your question. Um, no, that did not because hope is not a plan. Um, hope is not a plan. You said hope a few times there. So, I hope you would get the material. Okay. Well, you said if you get full trucks, you might not be able to process everything. Not what I said. You said if you had full trucks and you couldn't possibly get to everything, you do it the next day.

But again, and you and you mentioned that if that was to come up, then we'd come up with a plan. You said something to that effect. So, that means really is no plan. I've worked in companies. I've managed areas where you have to and if you want follow FIFO, you have to have a plan. You have to have uh things written uh procedures to follow to make sure that you're following FIFO. And it doesn't seem like that exists right now. So, it's something that needs to be considered. Um at that point, I'll just read what I wrote. That's okay. Um so, I really wanted to make three points. Um what I'm about to um read here. um credibility, public nuisance and fairness with transparency. On credibility, Mr. Melo the applicant has docu as documented operated without permits, misrepresenting agricultural use and processing packaged foods under the guise of farming. A cease and desist order confirmed unpermitted uh recycling and composting activities, including commercial recycling equipment and packaged food storage. During inspections, member even found glass on site, clearly not cattle feed, but evidence of commercial recycling. This direct contradicts the applicant's claim that materials are only being processed at for cattle feed. Images and videos submitted also show large-scale commercial composting, not incidental farm use. Mr. Jamala has repeatedly failed to provide required documentation including asilt plans noted in water and sewing commission's minutes and has not submitted toxic odor visual guides or contingency plans that are essential for operations of this type. The only reason the permit is even being brought forth to the board is because of the cease and desist order and the complaints that forced the issue. One has to ask how long has this been going on? How long would it have continued if not brought up and not a search been done or an investigation? And what assurance do we have that he

will comply in the future? Also, by claiming agriculture while conducting commercial recycling composting, the applicant may have avoided paying the proper commercial tax rate for years. This is not just a zoning issue. It is a fairness issue for every taxpayer in this town. And let's be clear, ignorance is not bliss. It is culpability. Next topic is a public nuisance. Residents have endured offensive nauseainducing odors that force families to close windows, cancel outdoor activities. Heavy trucks arrive and depart as late as 2 a.m., disrupting peace and safety. Seagulls, crows, and other pests are drawn to decomposing waste, damaging property, and creating health risks. Neighbors have reported headaches, nausea, and respiratory irritation with wellfounded concerns about bioerosols. Runoff threatens wetlands and Long Pond, a public drinking water source. With property values potentially declining due to these nuisance uh nuisances, assess values will inevitably be reduced, which means fewer tax dollars for the town. In other words, the operation not only harms residents, but also rose the town's tax base. Dozens of impact statements and a petition with 36 signatures document these harms. Massachusetts News law nuisance law, excuse me. MGLC139 makes clear that unreasonable interference with public health, safety, or comfort constitutes a nuisance. Commercial composting is the main driver of these harms, and adding recycling waste will only worsen the problem by multiplying odors, bacteria, and traffic. And even if the applicant claims it wasn't he wasn't aware of the extent of these impacts, the law is clear the nuisance exists and the community bears the burden. Residents have already begun discussing litigation and potential class action

lawsuits as the evidence of harm dating back to 2019 is substantial. Approving this permit despite documented harm potentially exposed the town to legal and financial liability. Lastly, fairness and transparity. Transparency, excuse me. At the beginning of this hearing, conflicts of ventures were acknowledged. Um, the vice chair is the applicant's son, which is accused, and the chair has had prior business relations or business dealings and has a relationship with Mr. Melum. This is not a knock on anyone's character, but even unintentional, these ties create the appearance can create the appearance of unconscious bias and raises concerns about impartiality. This is why the community asked that when the board votes, each member publicly states their reasoning on the record. Is that something that the board could agree to? the the board has to I believe the the law says we have to

say why or why not in in in in a hearing publicly to the community and to everyone. Yeah. Yeah. We have to give a reason for why we have to get uh it's actually we have to give a reason for why not. Okay. Great. Um and we we do all that deliberately and everything in public any

executives. I wasn't sure. I just wanted to make sure that that was uh an opportunity or something that you could do because if the vote is no, it informs the applicant and his attorneys exactly why and it sets a precedence that unless you're in good standing, provide proper documentation and avoid harming the community, you will not be granted a permit. If the vote is yes, the community deserves a clear expectation how such a decision could be justified despite the overwhelming evidence of harm. In closing, the community concerns of credibility, public nuisance, and fairness are undeniable. For the health, safety, and confidence of this community and the protect and to protect the free town free town, I we respectfully urge the board to deny these permits. Thank you. I would I would like to submit a document that kind of summarizes what I said. Thank you.

You wanted to respond to anything? Well, just I mean, we dispute a lot of that, but I think it's important for everyone to know, you know, this is a commercial recycling special permit. The lot will not be taxed as agricultural. We'll pay the normal tax rate on this lot for the commercial aspect of it. Just to clear that up. And I can also state on there that we as the planning board, we don't actually get involved with anything until we actually receive a special permit application. So any zoning enforcement or whatever that goes through their channels prior to to us. So

there has never been a cease and desist. I I can't defend all those lies, but there was never a a cease and desist. The building inspector asked me if I would hold off of information, Mr. Chairman. I'm a building commissioner, not a building inspector. I ran that right. I I studied hard to get my license for that. Mr. Mr. I didn't hear commissioner. Commissioner Commissioner, there was a seasoned assist who said we had to stop using the building until we got an occupancy permit. That's He asked me verbally and I said absolutely. Okay.

Anyone else want to come up? Now again this is for the recycling permit. Go ahead ma'am.

Good evening Leticia Roseman neck drive. Um I would like to start by talking about the video. It kind of brought me back to those uh the animal cruelty videos. You know that they're like advertising with cute puppies. Cute cows by the way. They were adorable. Um, the problem here, I don't think it's the idea of the project. I think everybody deserves to have a business. Why not? The biggest problem is the location. It's a residential area. Um, as much as I would love to, I wouldn't definitely use my resources to make meals for my family and also for 10 more houses. That just doesn't make sense. Um, this brings me to the 40 trucks a day, which I agree with Mr. Bisaro. There are times two

in and out. I don't believe that we, the residents, should be dealing with the pollution from 40 trucks again times two. Pollution doesn't only come from the fumes. It comes from noise. I feel really bad for the residents that hear them all the time. Um, I know people are defending the idea, but my question would be, would they be okay if that was them living there or the loved ones that are affected? Things were happening with no permit. What's going to happen with a permit? That would be my question. And lastly, I have made an analogy. Oftentimes, I'm up at night thinking about how this is going to affect me and my family. And it made me think of Walt Disney, one of my favorite people in the world, men. Sorry. He had a dream, a beautiful dream indeed. He has made many people happy. Tonight, I'm asking you to please do not allow one man's dream to be so many people's nightmare. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Noah Roseman. Nick drive. Um I just uh like to start by uh rebutting various things that I saw in the video or the presentation there. Um the first thing I thought of is that while you can see a video, you can't smell it. The impact of the smell from what we saw in that video creates a smell that permeates through the neighborhoods that are around it. I'll say it again. It gets in the air when the children at school are outside for recess. Even if it's too far to smell it, it's still in the air. It's getting into their little lungs, too. Um, when we saw that video of the Dacker, they mentioned revenue. They mentioned it for a reason because revenue will come of this special permit if it's allowed and it'll come through ways through excess. Um, the smells are made through compost and excess is the next re rebuttal that I have based on what we saw. It's enclosed at first, but then it comes out for composting. These are basic things that are just going to come of it, but you couldn't smell it because it doesn't come through the screen.

Um, when talking about money, when running a business, there's a word that we know if you ever worked at a supermarket or a store or it's called shrink. And at my little time working at a supermarket, we learned really quick that you don't want to cause shrink. What that is is when you waste any kind of a waste is shrink. That's the managers. That's the boss's one of their number one rules is to reduce shrink. Having trucks come that are not full will be shrink. If the 40 trucks would to be permitted or any truck if that truck if that truck is not full by the definition of shrink that truck that isn't full is shrink. I said it at the last meeting. I'll say it again. I I used the casino example. I firmly believe that going for two permits is nothing but betting in this case will use roulette. It's red and black. Trying to get a win. You're probably going to win when you go for red and black. And the and the result in the end is exactly the same. You won. So, why not go for two? Why only go for one when you can put two out there when the outcome's the same? And I just want to end with this.

We're all human beings and humanity is important to to us. Again, I look at my neighbors. Whether you live in Chase Parker or you don't, maybe you live near us, you've smelt it and um you you've had to stay indoors or you cancelled that party or people simply don't want to go to your house because it's the stinky neighborhood. Nobody wants to come anymore. So at some point we were kids and and at some point Dr. Seuss may have been a book you one of his books you saw read. I feel like where we live I fear I I I really feel like I'm a resident of Hooville. This is pretty.

I'm in Whoville and we're trying to live our life. We don't want to hurt anybody. We're in Whoville, but somebody has a goal, a personal goal that is hurting the residents of Whoville. Now, the thing that Dr. Seuss did is he forced a lesson with his pen. That lesson was not going to happen unless a man in this case the planning board would would be the author of the story. All of you up there who are the board, you are the author of the story about humanity for us. Dr. Seuss taught us that the person who brought the wrath upon Whoville in the end, his heart grew very large. But that's because the author made it happen, not because it was really going to happen. It wouldn't have happened had the man not not written the story. So, I stand here asking you to please, as you consider the permits and the wrath it reeks upon Whoville, to remember that you can do something for humanity and for us to simply enjoy living our lives. Thank you, So, I understand your stance on the on the two permit thing.

Yeah. But if you had to say, is is there smell coming from the food processing? Do you know? Or when it goes into the compost.

Yep. So, I know that there's a terrible smell and I and I trust Mark when he says, and I hope you don't mind if I mention you, Mark, that when that composting gets turned, we're all going to know it. And um I've been out there. I've I've been out there when I got to tell you, it's nauseating. It's animal death. It smells like feces. Animal death. And I do worry about being outside. I really do. I I don't want to be out there. I worry about past medical conditions that I've had and the damage to my lungs that that made and if I should be near that or my family or my neighbors who I care about very much and I think about their kids. As I said last time, I was raised in a neighborhood near here, Rochester, Massachusetts. I rode my bike around the block and I went out there riding my bike without a care in the world and I never smelt anything like that. And I just loved the smell of the pine trees and I want their kids to enjoy the same thing that I did. It's a humanity lesson really.

All right. How you doing? Uh, my name is Brian Keane and I also live in Ethan Circle. Um, I'm sure that some of the old-timers in the room, especially those surrounding Mr. Melo, are looking at us and saying, "All these young guys are coming in trying to take over our town and gentrify our town." We're absolutely not. What attracted me to Freetown was property like Mr. meloss was property like the balance of the farms on Chase Road where you can take a winding road, drive down a country road less than two miles from a highway and see the wildlife and see the what New England was built on really. Um my wife and I were fortunate enough to see our dream come true of having a new home built to raise our family in. We moved in when my daughter was one month old. For the past 11 years, we've lived in East Freetown on Ethan Circle. And it's been a joy, an overall joy. I drive home from work. I work up north of Boston every day. Two hours, 2 hours and 20 minutes, 2 hours and a half sometimes sitting on 93 and Route 24 waiting to pull on to Cody Drive and get off at Chase Road because I feel like I'm going on vacation. And I understand this meeting is not about composting. It's about recycling. But to reflect and echo the points that have been made last meeting when I wasn't able to be here in some early this evening, I get out of my vehicle at the end of a long day. Want to go outside onto my patio, cook dinner outside, and have dinner on my patio with my family. And I want to vomit when I get out of my vehicle after driving two and a half hours home. busting my

ass to live in a nice town, in a nice neighborhood. Mr. Melo, I'm not gonna deem you the Grinch or anything like that. I commend you for what you're trying to do. You're trying to make a buck. I'm not going to say that you shouldn't be able to do what you can do allowed to do by right on your property. That's what attracted me to this town, to this neighborhood, to this location, was the fact that there is active farming right down the street. I brag to people that I work with that are city dwellers. I wake up in the morning, I hear the cows mooing. I hear the roosters crowing. It's comforting. It's amazing. I'm happy to raise my kids in this town. What I'm not super proud about is that since 1993, as stated last time in this meeting, Mr. Melo has been taking advantage of the town in the tax basis, utilizing agricultural land as commercial composting. Since I've been involved in this town, I've never felt the urge to come to a meeting like this. Never thought I would, but I feel that this is the point to stand up and fight. fight for what's right for myself and my family primarily, but also for my neighbors and for my town. I do have a couple of questions. Um, and I'm looking to get some clarity because there hasn't seemed to be a whole lot of that throughout this proceeding. Last time on the the meeting, um, I watched it a couple times just to make sure that I wasn't missing anything. And the applicant mentioned that there was 100 and something cattle on his ranch or on his farm and that he feeds up to approximately 300. Say today that number skyrocketed to 500 and to a thousand

between 500 and a thousand. That's in the it's in the videos. We can watch them. I want to know which one it is. I understand being a good neighbor and feeding your friends. I admire that in you. It's at a cost. And if the cost is getting away with something, if the cost is doing something in the shadows, standing on agriculture when you are in manufacturing, even though you may not be getting compensated for it, it's black and white. You're bringing a product in, you're creating another product, and you're dispersing it more than your own personal use. That's pretty straightforward. Um, when it comes to the trucking, I work in the construction business. I know a little bit about trucking. I've received a lot of deliveries in my career. I've never seen one delivery come into a loading dock without a bill of lighting. Every s single bill of lighting I've ever seen has the gross weight of the shipping. Sometimes it includes packaging. Most of the time it includes packaging. But I think with those bill of ladings that I'm certain that your suppliers provide with their truck drivers, you can calculate some weights. Sometimes working up in the city when we're doing an excavation project, we need to export urban fill. All those landfills are quantified and and capped by quota. I may have a project where I'm sitting on thousand yards of dirty dirt that I can't get rid of for a month or so or a week or so or whatever it is because the plant can't take it. The facility can't take it. I can't send it to Maryland's Landing. That's nice and easy. I might have to ship some stuff to

Vermont or ship some stuff to Ohio. That's the way that business works. And I'm sure that you're very familiar with that as well. Why can't we do something like that here? Why can't we take bill ofings that have weights on them, get a phone call from the truck driver, hey guys, I'm coming over to Beach Bluff. I got Bill of Lighting says I got 1,000 pounds of material here.

We know that probably 300 of it's a pallet. bringing in 700 pounds of food and then with that over the course of a day or you know 10,000 pounds of food whatever it might be over the course of the day or a course of a week or the course of a month you would very easily be able to calculate the gross tonnage coming into your facility and I'm assuming that this fancy machine you have much like a rock crusher or a conveyor or something else you can put a scale on it and it could tell you the amount of food that are yielding from that piece of equipment. So, you would be able to give the town the information that we're asking for. How much food comes in? What does that take to make a pound of animal food? I don't expect it to be one to one because of everything that you mentioned earlier, but is it 30%, is it 50%, is it 70%. We don't know because we don't have numbers. I urge this board in the town to put a weight restriction in a daily volume cap on this operation, not a number of trucks. If we end up with a number of trucks and we say yes, we'll give you 40 trucks a day. I understand the the capacity of the roads and I know the hardship. My children get on the bus at Chase Road every day right by the train tracks. Nobody knows more than I do the potential impacts of those trucks running up and down that road. But when you get 40 trucks a day that come in fully loaded because the applicant realizes, hey, they gave me 40. Now, let's shop around. Now, let's make a couple stops on the way in. Let's bring in a fully loaded trailer that's

gross in 80,000 pounds total that has 30 40,000 pounds of food on its that's the problem. That's Pandora's box that we're potentially opening. So that makes sense to I hope I made a little bit of sense. I don't want to take anybody else's time more than I already have. Thank you all. Go ahead, sir. Can I just make a quick response having to do with a bill of lighting? Yes, sir. The

kind of material we're taking in, it's expired food. It's considered scrap. It's not a salailable product. So, the trucks that would be delivering the product did not provide bill of ladings. So, we don't have that or wouldn't have that. Plus, I maybe I shouldn't say this, but he said I've been cheating the town since 93 or something. How I bought the farm in 2005, but and he said he liked the moon and I'm just curious where he's coming from,

where he got the information. So last or at the last meeting, I I don't remember who the gentleman was or who the person was that was standing here talking about it going on since 2018. I think it was a gentleman that lived off a Costa road and maybe it was a different property, but you mentioned you've been doing this since 93. So you just mentioned you bought the property in 2013. No. 20 this the farm that we're talking about in 2005. So, how long have you been composting and recycling beyond your use or beyond your need on this farm? Can we have That's my point. Questions through you. Yeah,

that's fine. Can I ask you to ask him? Um, if you want to answer, it's because that's that's the point I'm trying to make to to the people here is that we're finding loopholes. Be the best neighbor you can be. All right, stop. I am I'm standing up for my friends. And also, Mr. Melo, just Yeah, come through me. Okay. In the in the opening remarks that you guys made at the last meeting,

you I believe it was the other attorney. I'm sorry, I don't remember your name. Sitting on the far end mentioned that you could fit a lot of houses in that property. If this is continuing the way that it could for the community with potentially getting commercial recycling or commercial composting or both, I would gladly welcome 170 acres worth of housing that are going to be good neighbors that are going to be like my neighbors. They're going to look out for each other and the well-being of the families that live around them. Go ahead, sir.

I just want to correct something I said about the bill of lighting. We do get a bill of lighting, but it's not detailed. It basically just says origin and destination. Other types of products that get delivered have more detail. I think he me mentioned some kind of contaminated, you know, dirt or something. We're not dealing with that. But so we do get a bill of lighting, but it it still wouldn't provide the information that um he was discussing. I just wanted to correct what I said before. Thank you,

Frank Burggeron, 90D Chase Road. So, a lot of people said a lot of the stuff I was going to say, but a couple things from the previous meeting that continues today. If you had a state permit, but you didn't have a local permit for the last few years, it wasn't operating legally. Is that correct? Because you need local permits to operate. Is that correct? We have a bunch of attorneys. That would be You don't have to answer that, but your question is a permit. We can't go before. That's a question. That's a that's a legal question. I'm just asking. I understand your question

because if you if you I have an attorney in that if you have a state permit that doesn't give you the right to locally operate without local permits which supersede a state permit and for so for three years there's been illegal operation he would need a permit for what he wants to do now here that's I mean

it's been going for three years so what I'm trying to say now is if we give the special permit the very people that are supposed to be enforcing the local permits. We've been complaining to and nothing's happened because the health the health inspector or whatever his title was had conflicting reports from the health chair, but he was supposed to be representing us with our complaints. You see how nothing happened? This when we see this nice video, everybody loves that. Everybody loves cows. I grew up on a farm. A lot of people already heard that. I grew up in Wisconsin, so I was a dairy farmer most of my young life. So I'm familiar with farms. That's beautiful. That's not what we're here for. It's almost like when we come to this meeting, we're forgetting the previous three years that we were discussing last time. Everybody that has ruined roofs and ruined parties and ruined times on their own property, property values that you couldn't sell it, let's all forget that and we're going to go forward with this nice pretty version. That's not and and what we're supposed to do is say, "Oh, we know that you're going to you're going to take care of us." That didn't happen. That hasn't happened. That's why I'm compelling legal counsel to say if someone does something class action, there's a lot of there's there's a lot here that was done wrong. And so even when it's suggested like what do seashells have to do with composting, feeding, anything? Is there an answer to that? And when it was suggested, the applicant said absolutely not. Sea cells stay. And that's the hu one of the biggest problems. But absolutely not. And then when we ask anything else, we can't give we can't give uh specifics. When Kyle talks about the trucks, they keep saying 1% 1%. That's 1% of all the Hyundai and Toyota. How much of commercial truck is probably

a 50% increase in commercial truck traffic? All the trash trucks come through a Sona on those historical bridges. It's a fact. And when it's like, oh, those trash trucks, they just bring leaves year round. I mean, who's collecting leaves year round? That's all that said is leaves, leaves, leaves. This there's something there that's been more. But the point is, if that was what that video is, that if that's what was going on here, you wouldn't see this outpouring. But it's the previous three years that it seems like this board wants us to just forget about. And maybe not personally, but I'm just saying like that's why people are showing up and that's why people are saying what are you going to do to either eliminate this or protect us because we haven't been protected. And I think we have real legal stance for what has been done. when you have reports, you know, again, the health admin um I'm sorry if I say the health administrator, they had to have a whole separate complaint file for all the complaints, but that was never no one ever said, "Hey, where's the permits for this place?"

Let me just before I So, what happened prior to the board, we deal, this board deals with the special permit. I got you. I understand. We're listening to everybody. We We know what you're saying. Whatever happened or did not happen prior to us, that is definitely something you we can't. But can I just say this to you? Because I've had issues. Everybody knows where I live and everybody knows my neighborhood.

And I always assumed that if someone saw something wrong, they would tell the appropriate official. And I went through years of that until one of my people I know on the police, Frank, if you don't complain, nobody's going to do anything. I'm like, is that the way it works? So then I started talking. But with the health inspector getting hundreds or dozens of complaints, he never said,"Hey, maybe I should talk to Carl. Maybe I should talk to zoning. Where's the permits for this? What's going on?" And then instead make everybody feel stupid that their house, their yard stinks and that we're complaining about shells. You're stupid. Those shells don't stink. Meanwhile, this poor girl goes out there. She's almost vomiting. That is that's a big problem because that's the town who's a civil servant trying to protect us and not doing it. As a matter of fact, antagonizing or is probably a better word for it. But that is why people are not just going to say, "Yeah, we're going to just let this go with all vagaries. We're not sure how much, how long, what goes on. The permits it's we're not going to make it non-transferable." I mean, I could read the bylaws. You guys know the bylaws, but it is a noxious smell. It is a traffic issue. It is bringing down the values. It's all in the bylaw. So unless you can compel us, you're taking one person's interest over all the rest of ours. And that's a problem. That's a real classic.

We have to do everything. We're we're crossing our tees, dotting our eyes on this board. We spent about an hour on this video and talking about truckloads instead of, you know, boring the hell out of all us. We're the real ones here. We're the concern. I mean, I think we're This is a special permit. This is not the This is a special occurren. It's not a a right I heard that said before. It's not a right to farm community. We're not in a right to farm community. Yes. Again, I No, we're not. No, we're not. Tell you what, we are not in a right to farm community. This board is dealing with the special permits, right? They're two separate special permits. I understand they're interchangeable when in a long run. I get it. One more thought. I just want to forget it, but keep going. I don't want to forget either.

Sure. All right. So, we have to do everything that we're required to do to make a complete decision. And if it takes an hour of a video or what 11:30, but 4 hours of listening to everybody's statements. And if we're going to do another four hours today of listening to the neighbors, that's what we'll do. Fair. If we're going to come back in two weeks and listen to you guys talk for another four hours, that that's what we'll do. We want to make sure every detail is documented and I have no idea. We don't speak we speak here in front of you. I have no idea if anyone's made up their mind either way yet and we're going to keep it that way. Um last thought we keep getting enough information that we can't go ahead.

It was said and even the applicant agreed. He's like I'm not asking for a commercial permit. But that's what's on the paper. And again, that's ignored today. He himself said, "I don't need a commercial recycling." Because commercial recycling, it's not just food because we could walk away from this and all of a sudden steel and glass and wood and everything else is coming through because the permit is open when it just says commercial. So what shouldn't the permit have to be rewritten? So the way you would get a permit, that's the only So the only there would be conditions that would if if it were to go that way in in his favor, there would be uh probably pages of conditions that you couldn't do anything but the food processing. So yes, I mean I I I can't tell you again I can't tell you what they're gonna say, but I would say

I'm a very literal I would propose contract as the chairman. I would compose uh propose those conditions of nothing pretty much but the food if it were to go that way. I can assure you that at the very least right now. All right. Thank you. We wouldn't have we wouldn't have an Excel over there. Yeah. Well, I can assure you that right now because you see how that ends. Yes. Yeah. Not good.

I don't I do. And I'm an old guy. I think we should take a short break. All right. Uh we're going to we'll vote on a short um recess if anyone needs to use the bathroom because I do. Um Can't you just make it? I can't just make the recess. Do it. All right. All right, we're going to take a approximately 10-minute recess. Final one second. All right, we have meetings back to order. I did a little bit, right? I don't want to get crazy.

How about now? No. What? All right. How's it working? There we go. I got to be wicked close. All right. We can put these things closer. Um, go ahead, ma'am.

All right. Margaret French Board of Health. I'd just like to make a response to um I think it was Mr. Bersron that was up here. Um the we the board of health has received not hundreds um we have received complaints smells um the birds etc etc we have not not replied we have gone out we have investigated it um we have sat down with Mr. Melo um and discussed things, talked about how things can be mitigated um and then this whole special permit process started. So, we're kind of trying to be part of this as a response to the complaints we've received. We have not ignored anything. We have tried to work with everybody.

Thank you, ma'am. All right. Do we have anyone that else from the public that wanted to come up? No. All right. Did you guys have anything you wanted to add in response to uh public comment? Uh not in response to public comment. No. All right. How about the board? Do you have any questions or comments you want to make now?

The other day when when we went out for that when we went for that site visit, you had a stop and shop trailer sitting there running with the reefer unit. I mean, how often do they sit there and run? If you get product left over during the day, is that what it does? You leave it there. If it comes late in the day and we can't unload it, it's better than fruit going bad stinking that we we would leave it going. But a lot of this the whole idea of moving it to the loading docks and things like that. We're moving it another quarter mile back. All the pictures of the pallets that were shown before, we're trying to do the right thing to eliminate all this and we're being fought on it. We're trying to answer your question. It's only if there's fruit in there uh that they can't unload till the next morning. But uh as soon as we unload it, we shut it off.

How how often you think that happens? Is it more now because you're not using the machine and you're waiting for it to be done? Correct. Absolutely. But, uh, that's part of why the building is there. So, if we can't use the building, then we can't do that.

Okay. Okay. Again, I a few people mentioned it and I know you kind of want to keep it to trucks, but is there any way you could you could try to formulate how much in tons is needed for the C or like after the after the feed is um I'm sorry, after the food is depackaged and get the tonnage off of that.

Well, no, because it's a the problem is and it's a real problem is that it depends on the type of food. If it's x amount of weight of cookies and x amount of weight of some kind of watery fruit, the output is not the same depending on what you put through the machine. Well, and it's Yeah. So it's so obviously if it was something with more water the tonnage coming in would be higher but then the amount we actually get to use would be less. So it it's hard to I understand that

it's hard to tie us to some kind of limit when it depends on the kind of food that comes in which again is not things that we can select. It just comes in as the from the origin source and whatever they have left over. We can't say, you know, no watermelons, only bread and cookies. It it doesn't work that way. And uh someone did mention about like you're saying, I understand that it's hard to do that and I agree, but over obviously you're not using the machine now, so it might be How long did you use the machine before it was uh shut down? 10 or 15 minutes. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I should have said that earlier. Okay.

We don't have like six months of operation where we can be like, well, this is what it looked like. So, we stopped right away when we were told to stop. Or, you know, Yeah. Never really never right. It never really started. Okay. So, how long would it take? Just I'm just thinking out loud here, I guess. How long would it take to come up with those numbers if the machine was running?

You only can get out what you put in. And the variations within a day. We don't have a scale on the site. I mean, and there isn't one at 65 Chase Road either. Like, we can count trucks. We can count pallets. Um, but yeah, go ahead. I'm just I'm just trying to help quantify this some, but you must have some metrics that you use. Sorry. There must be some metrics that you use to be able to properly plan for feeding your cows, right? yards. Yes, you could do it in yards. Okay. So, how does that how does that work?

How many yards per gallon per day? It depends on the product here. Well, we might be able to provide how many yards of feed per cow, but the input will be difficult because it depends what comes into the donuts is different. I no I I get that. I'm I'm I'm I'm just thinking about how do you write a decision, you know, like how do you how do you put these I mean you you understand what it's like. So

you and I understand that you know you supplement with hay or or or what have you, but on a daily weekly basis you must have some metrics for having a general sense of whether or not you're going to have sufficient product to feed the cows you have now. So what's the I mean how is you know how many cows you have you know about how much they eat a day you have some sense of the volumes you need to take in to feed them to be prepared to have excess like how it just seems to me like there should be a there's some metric in that that you're using to run the farm

with what you're saying you're right but the what creates the problem is say a load of fruit comes in and it's mostly watermelons or pineapples for the snap. A watermelon is let's say it's 80% water. There's I'm not getting enough for the cows. Where if you had a load of chips or Doritos or whatever you want to call it, that product is much much lighter. yet it's going to go further until you depackage it and put it in um you're not going to know a a pallet of cornmeal or a pallet of flour is going to be totally different than uh

he might be he's volunteering to help you there.

I might be able to help clarify that a little bit. The reason you ask how do we know we have other uh materials there to supplement uh the the the diet. So if we don't have enough uh uh grain for instance well we have grain we have hay we have the uh the food uh byproduct. So if we don't have enough vegetables then we implement more either grain or hay. Um, so the cows always have food in front of them, but it's hard to say. I mean, if it's not, this is material that's an excess material that either Stop and Shop or whoever is uh uh is throwing away. And as the gentleman said, I don't remember his name, but the guy with the pink sweater back there about shrinkage. I mean, the the these stores, their goal is not to ship the stuff out. their goal is to sell it. So, we don't we only get what they can't process or can't sell. And that varies from day to day and it varies from season to season, you know. So, um this is a new uh uh uh project. Um you know, as you can tell that we have a a lot of things that we don't have answers for right this second. I wish that we we could give you a a clearer uh view. Uh but we're learning as we go. You know, farming is not the way it was 50, 60 years ago

to be in in order to have a sustainable farm today, you have to be flexible, innovative, you have to uh try to reduce labor as much as possible and you have to try to supply, you know, uh it's not like years ago where you had a 100 farms here producing silage. farms are are are you know and somebody mentioned about houses. Farms are disappearing because guys like John, me uh are forced to sell our farms because I have three kids. My daughter is a CPA. She's, you know, retired. I'm still working. My two boys are engineers. Nobody wanted to be part of the farm. We ended up selling our farm. Fortunately enough, I found a a person um that had a ton of money. They don't care about making money at the farm. And the farm when I sold the farm, I put it in the deed that he had to run it as a farm for a certain amount of time. And fortunately enough for the neighbors, he's continued to do that beyond the restriction. But a farm today needs to have more revenue than the product that they're making. They're never going to make it. And the issue that we have in in our area is that if something happened uh in the trucking industry, there aren't enough farms in our area to support our community with food. our everybody in this room and in this state depends on trucks bringing food uh uh in from other areas. We don't have enough farms. I mean, I could name a ton of farms that, you know, Sevel's farm, everybody must have gone there for corn. They're not in business anymore.

Okay. Uh we're just I'm sorry. We understand, but we're just trying to get some answers for for that's my answer to to the question is that we have other materials to to supplement the uh what we don't get in in the food. You actually gave me another question though and you might have the answer so don't go too far. Y um

when when you're doing the depackaging of the foods, are you mixing like is it just the foods you're feeding the cows or you mixing in like grain and other stuff as well? Well, it's important to have a blend of uh say flour products, vegetables, uh acidity, feed, different things. You you want to we're trying to get a high protein uh food feed. So, if so, the answer to your question was yes. And that was another reason for getting the machine was to have the ability to make a better quality feed. Okay. So yes, that is what the machine can do.

For instance, I know you guys were talking about probably getting a lot of pumpkins in and stuff like that. You would would you mix? That's a blessing. That's a a natural anti-worm product. So that's a great thing, but that's that window is small. Okay. The window of it is small. All right. mind as gohead because again I'm just trying to think about how this all flows. So

and I I don't know if this is possible but if the board were to write a decision and I don't know if they're going to vote yes or no but it so folks understand the way this normally works is boards normally take an affirmative vote and it either passes or fails. So we're always talking in terms of what the affirmative vote would look like um for for folks that have a question about that. Um if if they framed it in terms of a volume limitation on what was necessary to produce enough to feed how many cow usually 160 cows

no I'm around 140 but I would not would not want to not take care of my neighbors cows if they were there. We we've fed them for the last five years or I don't know how many years. I'm just I'm just asking in general terms though like why can't instead of talking about truck limits why couldn't the limits be more in terms of volumes necessary to produce you know a mouth I'm I would love my goal I know at my age but my goal is to double my herd

even so you could but again you could you could still and I'm I'm asking like why couldn't the decision say well the volumes are limited at a um x amount necessary per cow and then you're heard your w heard it's on and who said there will be back here arguing over how many head I'm allowed to have my neighbor or so you're concerned with that's an enforcement concern yes

well I I I think I would agree that that's hard to enforce but I think and I know you're trying to get away from the truck trips but you know we're here for the commercial uh special permit, right? But the 40 truck trip idea is not only attached to whatever percentage is the commercial aspect. We can do the 40 for agricultural for the farm and whatever's, you know, considered to be left on top. I mean, so it's not like the 40 is only tied to the extra we're talking about. And then the things that are coming into the farm that's staying on the farm for the cows like we can just do whatever we want because it's staying on the farm. Does that make sense? Well, so I'm I'm

we're accepting a restriction that otherwise, you know, we probably, you know, not not shouldn't, but you know, would be protected by the Dover amendment, but with an eye towards reasonable enforcement and and the future, I'm trying to figure out a way to to clearly delineate what the agricultural component is and then what this kind of even though it's related perhaps real commercial above is and you're telling me you really can't separate that. Well, I don't think there's a bright line. There's the problem.

That's what I'm I'm trying to say. Is there a way other than truck trips? Like you're saying right now you get 10 to 15 truck trips a day, but you want to be able to go to 40. But so right now it sounds like you're saying we want to we want to double our operation because you earlier you said 10 to I'm sorry, you said 15 to 20 truck trips currently. You want to go to 40. No, no, no. It's

on average it's around 15 to 20 trips. Yes. We just want to cap at 40 for the more busy periods, but we don't expect 40 trucks a day. That's not realistic. But we just want a higher cap just in case, you know, there we need more trucks are available. You know, maybe the 35th truck is full, but the first 10 were not. You know, it's that's the difficult part about we can't predict what's coming in on each truck. So it's we want a little bit higher cap, but it's not it's not realistic that all 40 trucks are going to come every single day and be filled to the top with food materials. No, I understand around the average is 15 to 20ish a day. No, give or take. These are, you know, generalizations.

I understand that. But what you're saying is we have an average right now and we're asking for a cap that's double the average. And so to me that sounds like the commercial component is the amount above your average. And now you have this machine. You're you're getting tipping fees to bring the food and you have the machine. It lets you do more volume. It's a great business plan. I'm not questioning any of that. And it there's lots of of merit in what I've heard. I'm just trying none of that is is for me to have an opinion about. I am trying to process how the law applies to something like this in my own head. And it's difficult because you're saying you can't.

But I I don't No. No. I don't I just I don't agree that the 40 number being higher than the 20 number means that that extra you know the the next 20 is purely commercial. Well, it's largely commercial, right? Because cows right now you you get the tonnage in 40 trucks. You might not get the tonnage. Yeah, you you might get all 40 trucks and not have enough to feed the animals. that that's that's our point that it's not that it's hard to give a bright line number of exactly what's coming in.

When when Kyle came and he saw these pallets of uh Fredo Lelay products or whatever, think of how many ounces is in a bag versus what you're going to do there. There's no telling. I just want Yeah, go ahead. So just I guess applying the bylaw criteria like what are the safeguards you are proposing the board considers to

Oh I have a yeah you know sure because again it's you know I I feel like there should be a way to to quantify it the uses. So my my opinion on this is obviously and we've had a talk about obviously allowed to do something to feed the cows,

right? That you don't even need a special permit for even if it is the operation of them machine. That's my opinion, right? What I'm concerned about and I'm sure obviously your neighbors are concerned about is what are we doing above and beyond, right? Now, granted, I know if you if you get maybe even for farm compost, you might throw a little bit in. So, we we wanted to Would you have better numbers a year from now if that machine was running from a year? Probably. But that's just say and I'm just I mean, that makes sense. But again, I'm just thinking

we're not asking for a year's leeway. Well, me thinking right now, um, special permits can be granted on a temporary basis where you could have some numbers, some numbers that you can bring back to us after that. What a shorter term. I would have to What's that? What if there was a shorter term? If you're getting watermelons and pumpkins this week, sorry. H I guess my my comment was what if there's a shorter term? I know the the chairman just mentioned a year.

Could it be a month? Would you be would you get an average over four weeks or 6 weeks or eight weeks? I I think in all fairness, you got to go like I said about Fourth of July weekend or Memorial Day weekend or Labor Day weekend or Christmas or pumpkins or all that. That's why I kind of mentioned the year too was because you got all your you got all your seasons in and you have a whole year of of thing. Not that I don't think anyone on this board's going to give you a blank permit to just do what you want for a year. It's just something I'm I'm saying. Would you have better numbers? Would you be able to take good numbers and better numbers if you had a temporary permit for a amount of time?

Yeah. And I don't think we'd be opposed to that. I mean I'd asked for two years so two full rounds of seasons to you know cuz one year you know is still I think guys I I just need order and again I am asking this question because we have to with the we have to get conditions ready to vote on even if it gets denied. We just have to have a plan in place for our vote. We can only take one vote to either approve, deny, or approve with conditions. That's why I'm asking these questions.

So, we would accept a limited permit. I we'd ask for two years because then, you know, you'd have two full years of operation and I think those numbers would be better. Um, you know, I'm happy to talk about that more. Um, and then I do, I know I've mentioned it a couple times, I do have a list of, you know, conditions that we wanted to discuss that, you know, would further confine, you know, the operation rather than just truck trip truck trips and time. All right. Does anyone have any questions now for the board? The board have any questions right now? I think I'm going to let him go talk about So I think at this at this time we're going to let you um

propose the conditions uh that you would uh that's fine would like to see on it propos you want to speak first just quick go ahead sir so Frank Berseron uh so this is an odd request or outside of the box but if we're trying to help so much to help this business it seems like there's a lot of effort on how can we keep your business going and and putting restrictions. Could there be something that if you receive X amount of complaints that Yeah, because you just just talk to me though. Go ahead. I'm listening. Why is that unreasonable that if the complaints are submitted and investigated

then you've violated the neighborhood in some way? Well, it's up to the building commissioner, not the number of complaints that come through.

Yeah. So honestly um I think again I'm speaking for myself right now because we haven't discussed anything but we have to we have to do everything like best case for the for you for it's best case scenario. Uh I can pretty much guarantee he's not getting a blanket approval but so we either got to have something with conditions or we'll probably end up denying it. So, we want everything written down and every before we do a vote, you know what I mean? So, this is just thinking ahead. Uh, but yes, um, we're going to have we're going to propose a whole bunch of conditions as well. If you want to continue speaking with what you think.

I just sure you know sitting here like a lot of guys would be happy with if they had a say and if some if we waking up and everything smells again I think that would make people happy how that would work. Yeah. Yeah. So

so just to clarify if the if the decision contains conditions and the conditions are violated those are issues of zoning enforcement for the building commissioner. If the permit had, for example, an expiration date, this permit is good for a certain period of time. It needs to be reapplied for, then if there had been a number of complaints, I think that's something that the board would take into consideration if there was a reapplication. But what we can't do is just have something that like automatically enols or just legally speaking, you can't. So, we're not going to have something that says um you know, if you violate this like the permit goes away, right? The conditions are to be enforced. So, for example, if there was a condition on when the trucks could come and go and that got violated, you can make a complaint to the building commissioner. Building commissioner will remind them, hey, you guys need to do this. It needs to be during the the correct hours. There's enforcement mechanisms for that. But it's not going to be from a legal perspective, in my opinion, something where if they violate that condition, then the permit just goes away. Now, if it has an expiration date and has to be reapplied for it, expires, then that's something that can be factored in. But from a legal perspective, I think that's how the the conditions and the enforcement would flow.

What if what if there were 10 days in a row they came in after 2 a.m. or something? So again, there I mean there's enforcement mechanisms and one of those is court. And so if if you and I'm not saying you would, but if you have an applicant that's violating the conditions and they're not um responding, you know, there's an opportunity to court and and ask a judge to give you some redress. But um you know that it it becomes an issue of enforcement at that point. That's been the issue all along.

Well, m you Mr. Mr. Chairman, so the board my experience can also impose um standards for monitoring smells off the property, noises off the property. You could also have, you know, self monitoring and the reports come to us to make sure that they're following. there is in fact no smells or any smells above the threshold allowed coming off the properties then I would have something to enforce to go out hey look we got report here's what it's telling us so here's something I have to enforce that's also within the board's preview

okay so again okay so if there were he's just speaking about trucks is what they what they said if trucks rolled in at 2 a.m. and you had 10 complaints of that, what would be your course of action on that?

I'll tell you what's worked in the past. You put up cameras, somebody pays to have them monitored and we can count how many trucks come in and when they come in. That's worked in Somerset and that was the final blow that control how many trucks, how much material you can bring in and how much profit you can make. Once we limit that, the problem went away and they said we're not going to stay here. We can't make any money and they left. So you could impose uh any kind of monitoring you might think is important. Smells, noise, anything like that could be conditions of the special permit. Okay. Chairman, just quickly, sorry to interrupt. I Jim Marsh, I represent the uh reserons. I did give you a list to try to help. Yes, we've seen that

as part of that that letter that I submitted to before the last meeting. I think that gives you some sort of guidelines, some goalpost as to where very impressive when looking through if you're going to grant the permit, some conditions that can be put in place. Well, again, we're we're getting conditions uh figured out. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't you know what I mean? I don't know which way the vote's going to go, but yes, to get the ball rolling because again, we have one vote, right, to either pretty much deny or prove with conditions, maybe even um a temporary Yep.

We did see that. Um I I read it. I I you know, I thought it was good. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So, as far as Sorry, I just got one question if it's okay, sir. Um so Brian Keen and Ethan Circle again. So earlier in the evening um the applicants council mentioned hours of operation Monday through Friday and then half day Saturdays. What would those hours be? We're trying to so right now I'm kind of uh letting them tell me what they want the conditions to be and we're going to add a whole bunch more and you know we take theirs under advisement. doesn't mean we're going to do what they want.

I just I think I was just asking for the crowd what the intent of the operation. I mean, if you have that one handy now, let's let's go to that one. Yeah. So, uh, excuse me. I'm so sorry, Mr. Chairman. Um, would you happen to have the conditions in writing that you could share with us? Um, I just have them in my notes, but I can send you something tomorrow morning. Would Thank you. I'll copy and paste what I have here and send it to you. I appreciate that. Okay. Sure.

Um, all right. Hours. Um, so for trucks, uh, we propose 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. during the weekdays and then on Saturday, uh, 6:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and no trucks or DPAC operation on Sunday. So, nothing happens on Sunday. I could tell you that's what they're proposing. Yeah, that's crazy. Okay, that's out of that's like wildly absurd. You understand? Yeah, I go

if you want to continue. We'll So I'll start back from the top. So um so the first one no slaughterhouse waste or other regulated hazardous materials

second no sea watch deliveries um with the clam viscous I think that was a problem with the composting situation over the summer but we don't need that for um feeding the animals. Um still proposing 40 truck trips a day. That the uh next the special permit shall not be transferred to another property. Next, the special permit shall attach to John Melo and any party he leaves the farm to in his estate planning. If Mr. Melo sells the farm, the new the new party must come before the planning board to modify the special permit to have that party named as the operator. And then uh odors, if any, shall be confined to the agricultural building that houses the DPAC machine and then noise uh caused by the DPAC machine shall be confined to the agricultural building. Uh we'll we will post a sign that say the trucks that are coming into the property cannot use Jake brakes.

And uh last um we'll plant some evergreen trees you know to further you know buffer the site you know from the road

and Just so it's more specific, those trees will be facing the street. So, I mean, Chase Road, Chase Road, you know, the build the the building where the machine is is pretty far back there, but we'll we'll provide a, you know, an evergreen buffer. So, you know, when you drive by, you see the you see the trees and you don't have to look up the hill onto the onto the property where the building is. Okay.

Questions so far? Obviously, I know we're going to make a bigger list. Does anyone have any questions? Hours of operation for the DACA was uh same as the truck. Oh, yes. No. Well, no, because the when the after the truck stop and you know the food processing is done, I think we still need to be allowed at night to do maintenance, cleaning and stuff like that. So, I don't want to limit um you know what we can do inside that building to the same time as when the truck stop because there's still going to be some work required after the last truck comes

with the uh machine. You you spoke about uh it's just this machine itself is the sound of a vacuum cleaner is what you guys uh keep saying less than but yes less than um how many people would work in that area. Two three four two to four tops. Two to four tops. Okay. And what about the lighting? So again, if you're asking to be there later in the night, what would the lighting be like? See? Well, there's lights as it is now. Yeah, there's lights inside the building, but can't see that. And then there's a couple lights on the outside just for safety purposes that

I mean, I drove by it on my way here tonight. You can, you know, basically barely see it. You can see the lights up the hill, but um you know, I think we need the lights on because there's a building back there, but you know, along with those trees that we talked about, I think that would adequately shield um you know, the view from the front. Mr. Chairman, go ahead, ma'am. Might I just ask if you can create that on a plan to show where the actual trees would locate? It doesn't have to be anything um fancy, but if you could just provide where those will actually be placed and what type of trees they would be. Sure, Mr. Chairman. I just want to be Yeah. One second, sir.

U so through you, Mr. Chairman, to the applicant. Do we know at this point are we bringing any other machinery for production into onto the premises or is this a maybe a fire truck inside the building? I'm sorry. No, no more big machinery. Yeah. No more manufacturing machines or anything like that. There's no manufacturing machinery on the property at all right now. Okay. It's not what I've seen. I did see some kind of production machinery, conveyor belts and things like that. You have to carry the food to the right. There's a conveyor belt. There's a machinery is for production. That's a conveyor belt. It brings no more equipment. No more equipment than what's there. Okay. Thank you.

I just forgot what I was. Oh, question. Um, so for that plan, I just want to make sure we give you what you're looking for. So, not like a stamped engineered landscaping plan, but just kind of showing exactly on the property where it's going to be and what kind of trees they are. Maybe the size of trees. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do that. Can I just make one suggestion? Leland Cyprus don't usually get eaten by the deer. They're less less desirable apparently. I don't know. But that's the cows kind of keep them away. Okay, good.

All right. As far as um a big pile of obviously it's a concern to people and I I don't know if it's by what pel it's on but the big pel of shelves is that on the composting side or is that that's in between the compost and and the deep it's not on this it's not has nothing to do with this application. Okay. All right. Um should I wait or should I So should I wait for the composting one to ask the question then? I mean

I mean that that pile of shells there. All right. So the pile of shells whether it pertains to the other one or not. Is that something that it seems to be a concern to your neighbors as well? They think maybe that's where some of the smell is coming from. We do the composting. We'll bring in any literature or anything that goes with it. It'll be part of the report that we submit from the Yeah. And I'm not talking about the like the I'm talking about the shells you I believe you said it wasn't part of the correct either. I'd like to address that. Okay. Then then we'll show it.

It's over in that area. So we'll show it on the plan and talk about it then. But just the quick answer though is so it seemed like the smells over the summer were coming from the sea watch you know material that you know came in and was you know sitting around. That shell pile isn't causing smells. It was the it was the other stuff that was being brought in which has has stopped and it doesn't smell over there anymore. But that's the short answer but I'll have the expert consultant explain that more next time.

You're bringing an expert in there. Um, we got that. We got that. I know we're going to end up making a list. Yeah, I don't know if board members have like any of the board members there. Yeah, that's right. Did you guys want to start talking about um conditions you have in mind? Well, I just I had just written down things like lighting and noise and plans like that, dust plans, anything. Doesn't the lighting have to face the ground? It doesn't show off the property. Yeah, that's that's a thing. So, a can we could do that.

We're just doing kind of like a rough conditioning here. We'll let we're doing it. We need to alter the meetings to be transparent here with the public. If we need to alter the fixtures of the lights to have them face the ground, that's no problem. And again, this is, keep in mind, we're just talking about conditions for the packaging. I think another thing would be like with only uh I know he's saying no slot or anything but the recycling I'm sorry the recycling uh permit would be for um the waste

for the food only food waste only for the question. You sure can, ma'am. Margaret French again. Um, talking about this machine, it's separating out the packaging from the food. And we keep talking about recycling the food, but what's happening with that packaging, recycled, it gets bundled up and taken off the property. So, is it being separated? Is it being So, all these pieces are being separated inside the building.

Yes. in directly I'm sorry through the chair. Um are is all of this being separated inside the building? Is it being put directly into a sealed container and then taken out? Can I who? Yeah, I know these other guys actually run the machine. So yeah, uh if you have an answer for that, yes, please.

Yes. So what gets separated in recycling? Everything gets done in the building. The cardboard gets bailed. Um we don't really the the the plastic or the discard from the packaging which might be shrink wrap or you know chip bags or that is gone through the machine goes up a conveyor and directly into a sealed compactor. It doesn't come outside the building. It's not on the ground. Um, it's a uh it's a self-contained compactor is what it is. Okay.

And that's why you have two conveyors coming out of the building. One is for food and is one is for for uh packaging waste that we can't recycle. Anything that we can recycle is handled in the building, packaged in the building, and shipped out of the building. And that's some of the dock space that we need for pallets, cardboard bales, paper, that kind of stuff. Okay. My concern was microlastics and things like that, but um if it is contained within the building. Right. Thank you.

You talking about like getting in the air in the air, in the ground, in the groundwater. Nothing's going on the ground. That's what my question was.

So that that system that discards that plastic into the uh the self-contained unit is not a air operated, it's a manual conveyor. Um so it's not dispersed in the air. It comes off the end of a conveyor and drops directly into uh uh the container. The height of it is not that high. So, you're not having stuff fly out. It's it's it's it's very low. And you don't have any uh air systems pushing stuff around where which would cause, you know, you to have a filter system or something, but there is no uh air systems on that machine.

Okay. Thank you. All right. Good. Thank you.

Does anyone else have uh any conditions they want to talk about? Something we want to come back next weekend and talk about? Oh, go ahead. What about a locked gate at the entrance? I don't know if that would help with the truck traffic. Uh there is

all right. Well, this is the stuff we're discussing. If if we think it needs to be better. I mean, there is. But if you if you want better than what he has, then we can make that a condition as well. Yeah. If that if we would agree to that as a condition. Go ahead, sir. So Marroski, can you I don't think anyone's going to hear you on Zoom. Over there on Zoom. Over there. Like go over there. It's because of Zoom.

Marosski, Chase Road.

Go ahead, sir. Um because we live in very close proximity to one of the largest fishing ports on the east coast, I would want uh the board to take serious consideration limiting the amount of putriables that would be that could potentially come in there because that's a very very likely source of odor. Um, even even if you even if you compost it and handle it to the to the best known practices, you have odor releases. It's very very it's extremely difficult to manage. Rhode Island, which is not Massachusetts, I understand, has very stringent regulations. It's a whole separate permit to handle putriables that the board would seriously consider exempting anything that came out of a fishing port from going to this site because that's, you know, the potential for huge complaints coming in in the future.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I wrote it down anyway. Thank you. I think we've said it differently, but we agree. We agree. Yes. All right, board.

I think maybe we'll uh Mr. Chairman, we still have I have other con uh conditions to be considered, but I'd like to wait until the next meeting. I haven't fully developed so we can uh come up with our own list of uh conditions. um the zoning uh enforcement. Um and again, I want everyone to know this is just we have to do this before we can take a vote to to go either way. Uh did you have anything you would want us to add as conditions?

Just as I had mentioned before, so we're looking at a time in in place right now, but try to project yourselves 5 years from now where we are and what that's going to look like. Um on the other issue of enforcement. So I can only enforce what the board uh conditions are and give me something to enforce. So that's very important any condition if any conditions or if we even accept the permit or not. So this is the time to get it right. It really is. I hope we all keep that in mind as we go forward with whatever decision you make. Uh let's think of what the ramifications are of that decision. Thank you. Thank you.

And I don't know if you know we officially asked for it but we talked about it. Um if if you're going to consider issuing a temporary permit, we'd ask for two years and then we can come back before the board. Thank you. Um maybe a legal question right now. How about um inspections like can can um we make a condition that we can like do how do how would we do inspect like how about like I know uh the zoning board the health department could probably go there at any time.

Yeah. I mean we we always recommend that you get the property owners permission to come on the property. So, I mean, even if the decision says you have a right to do inspections, if you called me, I'd probably say see if we'll let you on. Yeah. Like, obviously, you want to So, um, you know, I mean, I'm sure we could we could talk about, you know, some reasonable notice, access will be, you know, not unreasonable withheld after notice or or something conditions. Um, you know, I mean, ultimately, if there's an issue with zoning enforcement and the building commissioner can't get access to investigator, he's just going to presume there's a problem, right? So, it's in their interest to cooperate letting them on. But and could we add probably craft some language about craft some language about that? And what about um

planning board? Could the planning board if it would just say it was a temporary permit? Could the planning board have access? So I mean normally maybe the town planner. Well, I mean normally once you issue the decision enforcement of them is conducted. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Um, so ordinarily once a board issues a decision zoning enforcements by the building commissioner. So the planning board wouldn't get involved except that if it is a permit that expires, it needs to be renewed. It's going to come back to you for a new application and at that time there'd be opportunity perhaps for a new site visit or something like that. But enforcement wouldn't be through the board. Okay.

Excuse me. If it helps, I mean, and we can talk, you know, we can talk about it, but if the planner wants to come, then that's what I was just going to add. So, I mean, I just there's no like enforcement there, but if you want to come, we can figure out a way where that, you know, some reasonable arrangement where that's fine. And Mr. Chairman, no disrespect to the legal counsel, but I do do inspections regularly on all sites. Um, if it's a site plan review, I go out and take a look at it. I'm quite versed in that area as well. So, I have no problem going out on site. That's fine. That's okay with us. Thank you.

Go ahead, sir.

Manual P E Circle. Um although we strongly feel this permit should not be um approved. If there was some conditions um that had to be set forth on the temporary basis then we need certly strongly consider um surveillance for the trucks as mentioned earlier. Air quality monitoring I know we say that there's not going to be VOCC's but when you're dealing with glass and plastic the silica there's VOCC's that's definitely still a potential and and if you're not monitoring how do you know what's happening out there and putting us at risk. Um, so that's surveillance, air, and there's also odor detection systems out there. Okay? So instead of somebody going there and waiting for numerous complaints and going there at the right time to try to smell this, there is active odor systems that we would strongly recommend even on a temporary basis. Thank you.

Thank you,

Board of Health. Do you have anything you want to add? Oh, go ahead, Gary. It it would have to be restricted to the um operation of the re of the deepacking facility. Yes. Yeah. Can't leave it wide open. Oh, yeah. Order control. No, no. I'm talking about the restriction has to be the deepacking facility. Yes. Only. Only. Yeah. I think I wrote that down. Maybe I didn't say it out loud, but yeah. No. No other I know what you're saying. No other recyclables, right? Yes. Yes, sir.

All right. I think we'll um if anyone want to discuss further, you want to continue this discussion till next meeting. Yes. All right. So, leave the hearing open.

Yeah. In order even to be able to discuss condition, you'd want to leave the hearing open. Yeah. And normally just most boards don't even discuss conditions in the public. They do in the public, but not with public meetings still open. So trying to be as transparent as possible, get a good list so we can make a decision, you know, when that when we close the hearing. But I think we're going to um well I'm going to make a motion to continue the public hearing until our next meeting which will be November 18th. Here

no at 18th it will be at the elementary school on Memorial Drive. Okay. So, November 18th at the Freetown Elementary School, Memorial Drive, 6 p.m. And I'm assuming that's right in that right in the gym there. Right in the auditorium. The auditorium. All right. So, it's up the stair. Yeah. Yep. Right there in the We'll put signage. Okay. So, that will direct people to the location inside the building. Yes. So, is it through the front door? It would be through the side door like across from the baseball field off the Memorial Drive side. Like when you go in.

Yeah. Like Yeah. If if you're from town, you're going to vote. You go in and vote there, but it's the next it's up the stairs. Uh we've had town meetings in there before. I don't know the last time we did, but All right. So, I will uh entertain that motion. I'll make that motion. All right. So, we'll do a roll call vote on that. Dave, hi Steve. Hi Gary. Hi James. Hi. Hi. All right. So again, uh commercial uh recycling special permit continued until November 18th, 6 p.m. at the Freetown Elementary School. Thanks everybody.

Thank you guys. Thank you everyone for coming. Oh yeah. Yes, cuz

I don't know what else you have, but you don't need me. We don't need you. No, thank you for your help. Thanks for send me. I think of it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I try to get him right back to you. Yeah. No, it's good. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to We will be taking a fivem minute recess before we continue the agenda.

Thank you. All right. We are going to uh

Thank you. Bye. Call the meeting back to order to where are we at here? Public meeting continued from 10725. A request for an extension on site plan review filed by High Street Ferris Sola LLC. Wills Wills Way applicant High Street Ferris Solar LLC representative Pam Burr Sun connect corporation scope of work. The applicant is requesting an extension for largecale solar project that was presented by High Street Ferris Solola for land located off Wills Way assesses map 232 law 1104. All right. So we're looking for an extension on that. Um, we are going to extend it to November 18th. They have just received Apex's completed review of the decommissioning bonds.

Okay. And so in order for them to accept that, they're going to take a review themselves and then uh at November 18th, we should probably have a final. Okay. So, I will make uh I'm sorry, I will entertain that motion. Sure, I'll make it. I'll second it. Uh, we can just do all in favor. I I All right. Next. Um, minutes. I got to be honest, I have not read them because I got them today. Uh, I would probably uh entertain a motion to continue um accepting the minutes until next meeting.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'll make that motion. All right. Second. Second. All in favor? I I

All right. Uh oh, this is an announcement, right? I think everyone left, but this is an announcement. I should have done this beginning. Uh new business notice four corners intersection improvement public meeting will take place November 12th, 2025, 6 pm to be held at the Council on Aging. You have anything to add to that? No, we just hope folks come out to hear about what the problems are with the intersection and some of the solutions and kind of come up with something um um that everyone can agree on. Is is this some of the stuff that's already been presented to us like a year and a half ago or

it could have been it's uh the stop signs, modified stop signs, stop light and mini roundabout. Yep. Those those three things have been being discussed. the was a meeting with the abutters, the direct abutters of the four corners. Okay. And so now we want to take it to the next level and bring it to the public as well and get more input. There is another grant open uh opportunity which we could apply for to help pay for it. So um this is a good time to be doing that. Better put that grant in pretty quick. Yeah. No one uh liked my speed my speed hump. So that's another thing I did a speed.

I I told them I should put a speed once. Yeah, that's a good to be honest. You coming? I'm probably going to come and mention that because when I was in um like when I was just in Bise, they have them all over the place. I've seen it. And believe me, they work. Yeah, you bought them. Oh, I I hit one by mistake at night. Good thing it was a rental car. But I I think most of the problem with that is people coming down people coming north on South Main, right? Oh, yes. Even though they have to write away, they're all doing 40 when it's a 20, right? So if you're yielding or stopping, you got to roll the dice.

Yeah. But you see so many people that they don't even slow down for that yield sign. They just And I mean when usually when you're coming out of 79, you can look behind you can look behind and see if there's a car coming and they see it coming, but they just don't think it's going to go straight because everybody normally takes 79. So they just pull right out. I mean, I go through it every morning and come back to it every afternoon. Yeah. I don't really see that many accidents there. No, I don't see any accidents. I don't know how, but I don't see many accidents there either because man, I drive all over the place and I'm That's one of my worst intersections. I hate drivers down there. One more stop sign would help. Yeah. On the 79. Yeah. Yeah. Side. Nobody knows what people say.

Is there any tie in to the bridge replacement or would there be could that impact it? So, if we got the grant around the same time, we would be doing the project at the same time because you're going to have no access over that bridge probably for a couple of months during the summer. So, that we're trying to avoid the school, but um that's on the tip. It is going forward. We've contracted with an engineer. Um so, that's a that's a very realistic thing to do. If we don't do the bridge then there is potential that it could be shut down similar to what you know obviously not to the scale that Providence saw but if it cracks more then they would have to close the bridge because it's not safe for travel.

You realize that the other bridge right around the corner from that was that was 105. Yep. Same reason. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That was down for a while. If they close that bridge this other one down, Bob Jo is not going to be a happy camper, is he? Well, they'll probably make them use They'll probably make them use 24 at that point. Yeah. 24 would be the the exit point for both because you can get off north and south, mate. Yeah. Yeah. Not a good time for when we were redoing the other bridge. That's what they said. They They never figured this bridge would break. They That's why they put the North Main Street exit in just in case that bridge ever went out. That was the That was the tail then.

Yeah. So, please come if you if you all think you're coming, which I will It is on Zoom. I can post it that you're going to be there. So, please come. Yeah. I see the attorney general's out. Yeah. It's January 1. I'll tell you all about That's right. And then we have we have VHB on um as well, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Medicine, man. For the next one under old business order. Thank you. Yes. Go ahead, ma'am. So, under old business. So, we have Sarah from BHB. Um Sarah, I don't know if you want to. I don't think I need We made her wait that whole time. Yes, we did.

Oh my god. Yeah. Okay. Hey, everyone. How are you doing? Can you hear me? Okay, Sarah. We can.

Fabulous. Um Sarah Eva from BHB again. you know, the last time I was in front of you guys, uh, I think virtually still, um, but you guys were just signing the myars for the subdivision plan. Um, so ahead of you tonight is just the covenant that goes along with those subdivision plans to be able to be recorded in the registry of deeds. Um, so you have the original myars back in front of you as well, uh, along with the covenant that's been signed and notorized by the owner and the applicant. Um, and again, I really appreciate your patience as we go through all this. Um, there had been some management changes on the applicant side. Uh, so just took a little bit longer than anticipated to get those original signatures. Um, but again, happy to answer any questions um for this site. Uh, it's the solar site located at Zero Locust Street.

Thank you, Sarah. based on uh legal counsel's advice, they were they suggested that we create a new covenant um and release the old covenant. So, that's what's happened. We created a new covenant. It's already been signed by the the owners and applicant of this project. Um, the board needs to decide to vote on that and then there's a release of the old covenant that needs to be voted and signed to wrap this all up. I'm sorry. Sorry. Do they also need to resign the myar somewhere? Because I see the signatures are on here.

No. So, the myars are all set um once the covenant is released and signed by the planning board. Uh, the myar just need to be signed by the town clerk. Okay. um that we did find that that's not that's not necessary. Um that was challenged on another project, but um I'm sure she will appreciate you giving her the opportunity to sign. Okay. So, here here are all here is all the paperwork that the original is on top and then there's two copies and these are all um all one because there's no signatures on that. That's the This is the the release. Yeah. And this is the new one.

Okay. Do you have to do it in a certain order? I would do the I would do the new one first before I released it, but it I mean it's all going to happen in the same night, but I wouldn't have let it carry over to another meeting, but you'll have it all completed tonight. So, I will do you have to sign or just chair? It's the whole board. Okay. And we also have Brenda here will be able to stamp it as as witness. Okay. Because she isn't now a notary. Notary. Oh, cool. Oh, good to know. She would like to see all your IDs, please. Yes. No, seriously.

Seriously. And seriously, she's not kidding. That's what she told me. She needs to see all your IDs. Yeah. It's a real ID, too. So, I'm all set. So, um h I did say you could come in with your ID. Well, mine's a new benefit right now. It's all good. All right. No. So, we'll take a I left it at work. The whole wallet. So, you walked here? No, I got my keys. Hey, I don't have mine either. Wow. Mine's in my truck, though. It was my wallet. Good thing this meeting isn't being recorded. Yeah, good thing, right? Oh, right. All right. So, I'll entertain a motion to We can do this all in one. Shh. Don't tell me.

I think so. To sign, issue the new covenant and release the old covenant. Sure. Oh, yeah. I'll make that motion. That's fine. I'll second it. All in favor? I All right. Let's get that done. Please sign a new one and then a motion to please. It's old one. It's one old one.

Just um There we go. You need to see You need to see the the ID. The ID her equipment. You're not the first, but you're the second. I really don't have mine. So, do you want me to come? You'll have to come by and see Brenda. But that means you probably can't sign it. So, I can't sign it right now until you show the ID. Yeah, I think I really need There you go. You're done. ID. Okay. There's two of them. Three of them, actually. Three. All right. I'll come by in the morning. Uh, I'm not making it up. No, I get it. I'm not making it up.

I get it. I know. What are we doing? No. Mix. I said, "Yeah, you go." Am I signing that as well? Uh, yes. He is. Yes. I'm going to go get my wallet out of my truck. Yeah. He's here tonight. You voted on it tonight. But I thought it the special permit. He's only He's an associate member. You can only seriously show your I'm sorry. No, you don't have to. So, you don't have to show your ID. Okay. Yes. Here. See, you don't get all Did you Did you maybe forget it? And well, I know sometimes I take it out of my wallet and it just sits in my truck. So, I'm going to go look. I got three places there. Do we have to sign the the

all of them? Yes. The old one, too. In three places. There's three different documents. really efficient. So cute. I think Nicole was a notary public. Yes, she was. Yeah. I think that's a good thing to become. Yeah. So, if I needed something notorized, I can just show up at the town hall. It would. Can you do it on business time? No, no issues. Yes, cuz I don't charge card for Yeah.

If you think of any other conditions that's wrong, please just forward them along. The um call for the Yeah. Yeah. Some of those questions were answered. I had written down stuff and Yeah, I wrote down some. Do you just want my notes to kind of look at or do you want to um as far as conditions? It's just Yeah, I don't know. You can't. Yeah,

you can't talk about it now because we closed it. But if if you if you think of it and you want to zip zip them along, text them. I can collect them and put them together for the next meeting. only one and I asked u only one on this one. I asked Rob an email to copy you all question. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. She's very And then there's three here.

You see when XL put up trees? When the DP had XL put up trees? Yeah. What kind do they put up? Afrobitees. Are they eaten? They were this tall. Oh. Well, they grow fast. When you get a 35 foot wall, then chop it off. You put them on someone else's property. You're good. Can you sign beyond? You can sign it. Excel's behind the sand man, right? and showcas.

Thank you, Sarah. I don't know. I don't know what happened put in by the subdivision. Yeah. Yeah, you might have. So, I did you she did give permission to the D to come trees and you're putting them on someone else's property. Okay. Yeah. All right. Oh, did you keep the house trees? And then Joe goes out. Yeah. He comes home and see people on his top. Perfect. And then we told

Thank you, sir. I think that's from this one. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, cuz they want my name, right? They want my name in the reverse. So, anything happens. Well, here's mine. I don't know if I wrote your license number down. Did I? Nope. LA.

Oh, I was supposed to say it. Isn't that that what you were telling me? I was on the top. No, you right at the top. Right. That's right. Right. That's the top. 31. Uh 27. It expires in 27. Mhm. Does it really? Yeah. I thought I just got this. It's only for five years, right? The the passports uh it's 10 years. You need it back.

Oh, you did. Okay. Thank you. That's kind of sick. I don't know if she has to do the thing. She does.

She may be able to do them back at the top. I don't know which one to do it right now. Do you want to continue with the ADU and then stamp it up? Yes. You have one more thing left. Mhm. So, all right. So, old business B accessory dwelling units and dimensional setbacks bylaw modification.

Yes. You received in your packet the revised accessory dwelling unit as it will exist in the warrant. I set it up so that every piece is done. It's the ADU, its dimensional setbacks and it's removal of anything related to the accessory apartment that was kind of being the replacement of now what would be called the ADU. We took some of the uh advice of legal counsel, but we also wanted to keep it readable and understandable for anyone outside. So, if you if you're looking at a bylaw and it always refers you to another law.

People are not going to necessarily want to read that and understand it or or will have difficulty. So, we want to make sure that it is understandable for any any person to be able to read. So, it looks like it's ready to go. So, all of the committee members have reviewed it. Um, and if you're in favor of the language, um, you could vote to approve it as written and forward it to the board of selectmen to be considered on the special town meeting warrant for January 26, 2026. It's already coming. Yeah. So, that's that's where we're at. Once it goes to the select board, the select board will actually send it back to the planning board for the public hearing. So, but once I have to send it to them first and then have it sent back. So, I'm just getting your vote to send that to them so that they can send it back to you for a public hearing. Makes sense. I'm just repeating myself at this hour.

I mean, I read that's fine. you know, after back and forth. So, well, anyone want to make that motion that we send it to the board of selectman? Yeah, I'll make the motion. All right, second. All in favor? I because you have a time ticking time. Yes. Do the

All right, we got that one. So, we did have um we had talked a couple of meetings ago and this is under other um and it wasn't on the agenda is that to sign off on um things like the payroll. Deb would sign mine. I've asked and she agreed and I can sign off on Brenda's. But there's a document that you need to sign in order for the accounting to allow that to happen. So that you no longer have to get a a PDF to sign. It can be done in house. You certainly more than welcome to to like if you want to see them, I can still send them kind of thing.

Um yeah. So I remember talking about this and I talked to you again in your office not too long ago about it. If you if you talk to her and now you got it back. Um I'm okay with that. It's pretty much uh it's for payroll and is it for like the small expenses, too? Do you want it for the small expenses, too? Well, we only filled out the payroll one. We only filled out the payroll one this time. All right. So, for payroll right now. Okay. I mean, if you want Yeah. Yes. You vote on it and then they have to you all have to sign. Okay. So, what it is it. It's uh Thank you.

It's allowing um Nancy to sign off for um Brenda's payroll and our town administrator uh Deborah Petty to sign off for NY's payroll. Does it also include if you had a temp come in to do work in the department? Would would that I'd have to file another piece of paperwork. Yeah, I'd come back to you and ask. So, this is specifically for for us. You you too. Yeah. Um Yeah. And and just for payroll. Just for payroll. Yeah. Yeah.

I will uh entertain that motion to allow Nancy to sign off for Brenda and our town administrator to sign off for Nancy. Yeah. I'll make a motion. Second. All right. All in favor? Hi. Hi.

I have just one other announcement on the MBTA uh districts. We're going to have a public meeting on November 25th that will be held at the police station here. Um and we'll discuss the the various districts that have been um brought up and reviewed and um to let people know where the town is looking at. as well as I hope to have the language too next week to send that around so folks can take a look at that and see if what the language might look and feel like. This is all be being done through a technical assistance provided by the executive office of housing and livable communities and uh Bowler is our consultant that was hired to help us with this. Um they ran them uh JS modeling and they um looked at different districts. They looked at Quickpick. They looked at um Lamb's Village. They looked at um the Excel Marijuana area, the industrial park off of Ridge Hill, and they also looked at the area in and around um the train station to try to

just narrow it down to a couple of parcels instead of the whole PP Puma. Yeah. What date is that again? That is November 25th and that's going to be held right here. It's Tuesday, right? Is that a Tuesday? It's It's a Tuesday. So, yeah. When do you have to have the public meeting from us? Yeah. Um get it on to the warrant. I don't have the dates with me, but I have it and I can send them to you all. Um we got to get them in by before the end of December. Well, before the end of December, so like mid December. I thought you needed longer than that. Yeah.

Well, it it will much will depend on whether or not they allow me to go past the the warrant. So, I have to make it before the warrant goes to print, obviously. So, that's really more my time frame right now is to try to make it before they close the warrant on me. And I'm going to be pushing that envelope as probably hard as I can cuz it just took them so long to to do the necessary work so that we can take a look at where is the best location. I'm glad that you're getting the second look at it because if you had done the whole PMUD then you would have been you would have been zoning more than you possibly might have needed and that's

that's a shame. And just the the holdup right now is the um the state the the well the firm that the state hired correct to help us with this. Correct. Yeah. This is not something we could do in house. Okay. No, we couldn't do this in house and Yeah. Yeah. Just wanted that in the meet in the We had a serpent do it the last time. Yeah. I know. Then they didn't help us this time, right? No. And then um after the last time it failed, we said, "Well, listen, you guys got to help us then." And they uh sent this company.

Yeah. The time frame came around. So I I applied right away for the technical assistance. We received it in relatively short order, but then the state and the and the company had to had to negotiate their contract. That took a while and then I think we just got lost from, you know, I just think from them. Yeah. So, and then I, you know, had to do a little bit of a push push. Are they looking for feedback for changes or are they pretty much done? No, I I mean certainly the first meeting will, you know, we're looking for people's thoughts, you know. Um, certainly,

but there's no there's no you can't make wholesale changes on November 25th. Probably not a lot. never make the warrant.

I can send out and put it up on the website in advance and and ask for input as soon and often. Um I'm just waiting to put the flyer together and have a final district which is still being considered. there is um the way that they set up the GIS, they put in like triggers. So, if it's got constraints like wetlands or it's also got a FEMA flood plane or those types of things, which I was aware of, but and I'm probably going to mess this up, but the more area you have that is not um available for units is excluded and you almost have to go with more density to and I'm not saying it to get the actual um approval. Does that make sense? It makes no sense. I know it's so if you we did the MBTA station, Eversource and um the property off of Copic I think it's Copa and and South Maine. Kopic cut in South Maine would have to absorb all most of the density because even though you have more area, it actually works against you in that case because then you have to apply all the density that would have been a spread across three parcels onto one because they won't let you use the MBTA parcel as part of the um the calculations because it's called public lands. Now they're telling me that chapter 61 land is also not available. It's undevelopable, they tell me. And I'm like

that is not true. Like that is not the case. Chapter is a voluntary. Chapter 61 is a voluntary program for for agricultural purposes, for forestry, and for recreation. they can go out any time and pay back and do the penalty of the five-year payment. So that's we just had somebody do that. It's not it's not undevelopable land. Yes, they could do that if they wished. It's not opposed. And so we had picked a parcel that had chapter 61. They're saying, "Oh, you can't use that." I'm like, "I challenge that. I challenge that thought." Yeah.

Yeah. So it's actually Brightman. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have It's tough over there because you got the the old warehouser which is owned by the MBTA which is not state as far as I'm concerned. MBTA is a different entity than the state. Right. So I don't know why that's not allowable. You have the Freetown Forest on the other side of the road. So we're really you know and you have to do it within you have to do a certain portion of it right there.

Right. So very constrained and Eversource is there too. Right. But that doesn't matter. So MBTA ever source and even if we included them, they kind of excluded because it's a public utility. I don't know. It's just like I can't even. So we are narrowing it down. We should have that done. As soon as I have it, I'll send it around so everybody can see what's going on. I know you've just been overwhelmed with all kinds of materials and I really apologize. And I'll stop talking now. And if there's a better way for me to give you the materials, I'm I'm happy to do whatever way you wish. I just want to make sure you got it all and in a time that you can actually absorb it. You know, there's nothing worse than getting it, you know, getting everything on a Friday or Monday and then the meeting's Tuesday. Yeah. And then you have no time to read it or look at it.

So try to be thoughtful in that area. I know I couldn't do it if it was me. I was assuming that everyone has that same problem. But I'm done. Did we vote on the on the PDU? Yeah. Did you? Yeah. We sent that to the SL. Okay, we're good. We have to vote on Yes. Yes. I'll take a motion. I'll make that motion right now to second. All in favor?