Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Mr. Chairman, we're good to start whenever you are.

All right.

All right. I'm going to call this meeting to order at, where's the time? At 622 p.m. of the City of Saginaw Planning and Zoning Commission. I'm also going to do roll call. Vivian Anderson, place one.

Present.

All right. Benjamin Guthrie, place two, present. Peter Drolet.

Present.

Edith Solis.

Present.

Val Visas. Present.

Durand Somovath, present.

I'm going to do that right the next time. And Paige Garcia. All righty. Note the second alternate is not here. All right, now we're going to approve the minutes of the meeting from June 9.

Mr. Chairman, we'll have the item for audience participation.

Oh, OK. Oh, I skipped over 1B. All right, 1B, audience participation. If anyone in the audience would like to speak on anything on the agenda tonight, please come up to the microphone, and you can state your name and where you're from. We will also have time on the various agenda items to come up as well. all right now i'm going to go down to 1c approval of minutes from the june 9th meeting i took a peek over it i didn't see anything that stuck out to me did anyone else notice anything different or needs to be changed okay all right if not i'll entertain a motion i move that we approve the minutes of the last meeting all right vivian anderson made a motion do i have a second a second all righty we have a second from peter let's all vote all righty and the motion passes and this was just for our new members this was just a per basically the notes from the last meeting that we had sometimes they'll be like we needed to add a name or something All righty, now we're gonna go to section two, business 2A. All right, let's welcome our new members.

Mr. Chairman, can you hear me?

OK.

So I'll just speak a little louder. So we wanted to welcome all of our returning members. We also have a couple of new members with us. So we wanted to do a brief overview of the commission, what our role is, and the type of applications that you'll see. So our purpose, so we are guiding growth and development and ensuring that it aligns with our city's ordinance and our comp plan. So you would be reviewing land use and zoning applications and essentially you would be recommending to city council whether you would be approving or denying that application or case that you are reviewing. So the types of applications that you will see coming through, so you'll see zoning, any rezonings, special use permits. You will also have to review site plans for multifamily developments, and then any ordinance and textual amendments to our zoning ordinance section. and then as well as any community planning so for example if we were to update a complaint that would be something that you would be involved with so all of our meetings have to follow the texas opens meeting app and that ensures that they are open and transparent for everybody that lives within the city We would post agendas in advance, so you will receive a calendar invite with the agenda and the packet at least a week in advance, and that way you know that we have a meeting scheduled. And then we also ask that you let us know if you won't be in attendance, and that way we will know if we will meet quorum. So every meeting must meet quorum and what that means for the Planning and Zoning Commission is that we will need at least three members present in order to meet quorum. And then for all of our items, we will have a public hearing process and what that looks like.

Sorry.

Sorry about that. I don't know why that mic was being a little weird. So our public hearing process, what that is, is staff will present the item. We will introduce the application to you. You will then have the chance to speak with the applicant if you have specific questions for them. And then we will also bring forth any public comments that are made by people that are living near the property, but then anybody else that is present at the meeting as well. and then after that you will deliberate and have your discussion and then we will vote for recommending denial or approval of that item. So overall, your role is to be impartial and respectful of every application, basing your decision on facts and what is included within the application and what staff presents to you. And we also ask that you let us know of any potential conflicts of interest. So if you are living within 200 feet of the property, if you are perhaps an owner or have a relative that is owner, there may be a conflict of interest. So please let us know if you aren't sure if there is any conflict of interest, let us know beforehand and we can discuss with our attorney and just let you know. So overall, we are holding this meeting to serve the public interest through fair and informed decisions and ensure that growth within our community is fair as well as making all of our meetings transparent and being held accountable. I've also provided a couple of handouts for y'all. So you have the Roberts Rules of Orders cheat sheet in front of you. And what that is, it just gives you overall process of a motion. So if you want to present a motion, it gives you a couple of steps that you would need to follow. So if y'all have any questions, let us know. And then I also provided the P&Z calendar. So let me pull that up. So what this is is our development process calendar. So it includes all of our dates that staff has to abide by. So any applications that we are receiving, this is the timeline that it goes through. But specifically for y'all, you will see that every month, the second Tuesday is highlighted in blue, and those are our scheduled meetings that we meet with y'all. And then any item that is presented to you also goes to city council and that is scheduled for the following Tuesday. So that Tuesday following PNC, an item will be, this is unable to attend a meeting. They are also assisting the chairman in.

I was gonna nominate you.

That's why I got it in there first. Let me just say, honestly, I travel at the drop of a hat. I have the opportunity to travel, and we travel a lot. I know I've only missed a couple of meetings, but that concerns me. Because I looked at September, and if it wasn't for all the fires in September, In the western states, I wouldn't be here for September. I'm not going to be here for October. It worries me. And I try to be here every time, but Val, you're a rock buddy. You're a good guy.

I haven't even nominated you yet. He already declined.

I'm nominating you, though.

OK. I accept the nomination.

All right. Does anybody else want to self-nominate or nominate themselves? If not, we have a nomination. I second that nomination. He accepts it. So I guess we can bring it to a vote.

Yeah.

Do I get to vote?

I think you do.

Yeah, OK. You don't know these things.

I think because you tapped the screen.

There we go.

Happens to me all the time. all righty and the motion passes now we have a vice chairman i tell the communications team to update that on the website now thanks valve welcome all righty now we're going to close out the business section and we are going to go to the public hearings portion of the meeting 3a consideration and action regarding a specific use permit to allow the operation of a convenience store with fuel sales at 501 and 711 north saginaw boulevard

Yes, sir. So Mr. Chairman, today we have an SUP request to allow the convenience store with fuel cells to operate at this location. So it is located off of North Saginaw Boulevard, and it is currently a gas station. They are operating today. However, there was a change in ownership which required them to get a new CO. And as it stands right now, the use requires an SUP if it is located within the boulevard. So that is why they are here before you today. So it is zoned community commercial, and it is located within the boulevard overlay district. This is the existing conditions, what it looks like today. They aren't proposing any changes to the site layout. Nothing would be changing other than changing the signage and the name of the gas station. The pump stations will also remain the same. And then this is our permitted use table, and it shows that for any property that would like to have this use, and it's located within community commercial, they would be required to get an SUP. a part of their review process also included going before the building department and they did want to note that they aren't they don't have any landscaping at the moment so they are Nonconforming. They aren't up to date to the landscape requirements that they they do want to note that at this moment you would also be able to make a step elation so that they are now up to date or up to code. Do you have any questions?

We do have the applicant state state that again is here. they don't have any outside bushes or anything like that? Right.

So as you see it on the screen right now, it is just the driveway. There is no landscape buffer along the boulevard. And if you would like for them to now have some landscaping, this would be the time to add it into the SUP. I just want to make.

and was that landscape the landscape requirement was added and then fortified or increased whenever it became a part of the overlay district i don't have the exact date um but i do know that the building was already existing we had a gas station at that moment yes so they became non-conforming yeah And something else I noticed, just to point out, because it lists two addresses, and I was thinking 7-11 was like further north up the road. So I was like, is this two properties? But it's two parcels. 7-11 is immediately behind it, just for anybody else that was wondering that. OK. All right. Does anyone else have any questions for staff? If not... We do have to open up the public hearing.

Yep.

I'm going to open up a public hearing at 6.39 p.m. And if anybody in the audience would like to come speak on the item, you may. I don't know if I have... and we did not receive any reply forms for this sup okay all right should i ask the applicant to come up or close the public hearing and then ask the applicant to come up yeah you can ask them to come up yeah would you come up sir Good. How are you? Good. If you could just state your name and where you're from into the microphone. We record the meetings, so whoever's taking the notes can hear you.

You can hear me? My name is Shamil Iqbal, and I'm just coming here to represent my company, which is charge of 124. And I'm trying to get a use permit so we can open it.

Okay. And so I noticed currently in the images, it shows like Valero branding, and I believe that's been taken down. Yes. And so I think I see an applicant that's going to charge up. Charge up 124. Charge up 124? Yes, sir. Because it's going to be the new branding?

Yes, sir. I think it's already done, and everything is no more Valero. So it's a charge-up brand now. Okay. It's unbranded.

Just to ask, does charge up include like EV? Is it gonna have electric charging as well or just the gas station?

It's just the gas station.

Got it, okay.

Gas and convenience. And convenience, correct.

Convenience, yes. Yeah. Are you aware of the current landscaping requirements for a buffer on the land?

We don't have landscaping over there. Do we have to have landscaping or like?

So I believe what the city staff was kind of stating is that before it wasn't required but now because that your property is underneath the Saginaw like main district overlay so it's a special zoning district that is all down main and that has enhanced requirements on it that now the property, since it's changing over, wouldn't be conforming to the new regulations, yeah. So I guess is that something that city staff can provide the applicant with of like, if it's eight feet of landscaping on 40% of the, whatever it is, provide him with it?

I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, could you repeat that?

So since the business that is here before us applying to take over this former business, there's obviously new requirements for the overlay district. I don't know exactly what those are, but I would just kind of reading some things in the past. It'll state that it has to be a certain amount depending on his frontage on 287. Yes. So it would, just as an example, it would say 20% of your frontage has to have landscaping and it has to be a minimum of two feet wide and blah, blah, you know, that kind of thing. Is that something that we can provide to the business owner?

Yes. Yes, so the applicant did receive that landscape ordinance.

Okay.

However, the actual specific calculation was not done on their behalf, but it is something that staff can help them with if they would reach out.

Got it, got it, okay. So if this commission tonight decides to approve the SUP with those landscaping adjustments, those will have to be done. The city can work with you on how and when and all that kind of stuff, but I just wanted you, because the city council and the city is trying to beautify Saginaw, Maine.

Okay.

Okay, now that we kind of got through this kind of that part, does anybody have any question on like the elevation of the building or, you know, it looks like things are kind of staying the same. There's not going to be additional fuel pumps. You know, it's really the signage is changing. Does anybody have any questions or want to ask something about the business?

I didn't see any information that there was going to be any major change to the convenience store portion, or you're not opening a restaurant or anything like that inside there. It's going to be just a convenience store.

Yeah, it's just a gas station, like a convenience store, and we're going to sell gas, that's all.

All right, thank you, sir, for coming up. We appreciate it.

Sorry, I do have one question. Are you going to sell cigarettes and vapes?

Yes, we do going to sell cigarettes, vapes. Yes, we are.

Okay. Did we not have something against vapes?

i believe if the business is expecting their sales to be above a certain percentage of the business or if the floor space is expected to be above a certain percentage they would have to go through like they would have to file that like how we had um like in the past we've had a tobacco cigar shop apply But are you expecting your tobacco vape sales to be about the same as they were under the previous owner? Or are you changing the floor plan and the counter space to have more additional?

No, it's going to be the same, but I think we already have a permit for that. But it's going to be the same, no change.

The city attorney could advise us maybe a little better on that. Would that be anything we need to consider during this SUP? Or is it somewhat grandfathered in? I don't know.

Yeah, I think as long as you're not fully changing the space, in a sense, then it doesn't really need to be considered. But if you were to be fully changing the layout and then... No, no.

Actually, where the figure was before is going to be same place. We're not going to change that. You're not going to change that.

Then I think as long as that uses staying the same, then you're okay.

Okay. Yeah. I think it's valid. If you turn to page A101, it shows the interior, kind of the layout. And I've been in this business under the previous owner. It looks very similar. It's at the checkout counter area on the bottom right. Okay. Thank you, sir, for now. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay. If there is no one in the audience, which I don't see anybody and we don't have any letters, I'm going to close the public hearing portion at 840, or military time, at 648 p.m. And now I will open it up for us to discuss as a commission, as a committee. so i don't just personally i'll just since i've been talking i'll kind of get my talking out of the way that we see gas stations change branding all the time i think since i've lived here in saginaw this gas station was a chevron a texaco a shell a bolero and now it's going to be a charge up i haven't heard of that brand but there's also new brands coming around all the time I don't see them significantly changing either the site plan or the interior of the business. and i definitely would like to see some landscaping on this site plan because if anyone's ever pulled into this gas station before knows even though there is defined areas um if the city staff could y'all pull up the aerial for us and maybe kind of zoom in So there are actually defined areas where like there maybe used to be landscaping or where it was maybe like like a pocket of rocks. And then you can clearly see there's two asphalt kind of drive in and drive out areas. But over the years with all these big dually trucks and like 18 wheelers and stuff that come through here, they've just rolled over it and it's pretty much just

a free-for-all in that section right now um you have to you have to really watch yourself you go in there because there's people coming from all angles have you ever gone into that yep and i think that that would help with some definition and maybe with ingress egress out of the property and safety and is there anything else that we need to say about the way the property is marked

Are we marked meaning?

Striped not only parking, but entrance and exits. It's one of the reasons I don't go up there too often. You don't know. I guess coming at what direction.

City attorney, is that something that we can address during an SUP is to have the business clearly mark the entrance exits or have, yeah. yeah because it's dealing with the use of the property so that if that's something that you want to have them address and you absolutely can't it's not required but okay yeah because it's dealing with the actual use all right so if anyone was to we're not done talking yet but if anyone was to make a motion just a reminder for anybody on the commission you would have to add in something about the landscaping requirements and any other thing that you would want to have included in your motion at the time of making it I think Val you were going to ask something

Yeah, so I have the overlay district concept in mind, right? And I think my concern here is that, yes, I appreciate the business coming in and providing more services. And I don't know, maybe a little bit more different variety of grocery within the convenience stuff within this convenience store. I hesitate with the fact that they're not doing anything in the direction of the beautification of the boulevard, right? So facelift to the building or the landscaping that we talked about. So that's my concern, and I think if I would be voting for an SUP, approving the SUP here, I would want to see the business do a little bit more with the facelifting. I mean, the old person was grandfather then, but this is a change of business, and there's an opportunity to connect with that, and that's why we're here today. So that's what I would like to see with an SUP being approved today, some conditions towards the direction of beautifying the boulevard.

And I agree, and that's what I was also going with, that directionally saying there should be some entrances and then some exits and some markings. I think that would, because it's a blank space up there, right?

It is, yeah.

I agree. I don't know, how do we ask somebody to... do better artwork on their building or something, I mean, you know, or their signage. Yeah. I honestly thought Charge Up 124 was just like, hey, we're throwing up there right now for an example of a sign.

Yeah, I know, right? I thought it was a sign for a logo.

So if that's what they want to go with, I don't know. I don't know that we can change their company name, but it's like they didn't go real far on the whole effort of... Because if you remember the conversation at the City Council when we approved the

The tire shop that was coming on the boulevard as well, they had to do some rebranding or readjustment on the logo because it was the big pig. Remember that one? They had to do something with that.

I unfortunately remember that, but I would think our... sometimes these councils and city councils can get a little bit above their skis and i would think the city attorney and brent would probably have told that city council person i mean you know you can say whatever you want to in the microphone it doesn't make it legal or you know what i mean like

Of course, it's not legal, but that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is the concept that we're trying to get on the boulevard, right? And if that is somebody's opinion about the beautification of the boulevard, as long as it doesn't violate the code or any regulations, I think we're within our rights to make that recommendation. We are.

I just was specifically speaking on the pig thing. That was not enforceable. And that didn't end up happening. Yes, so are we allowed to, we're not allowed to tell businesses anymore that they have to improve, that they have to do masonry or brick on buildings anymore? So I was told that we had that taken away from PNZ and only city councils can do that now. So are we, with an SUP, can we tell a business if we approve their SUP that they need to paint the building or do it branded or do we have to stick to things with the site? Like I'm trying to understand like where, like yeah.

And the same goes for them to try to tell them, basically, in very blunt language, straighten out the parking. You know, the entrance, I mean, it's a, I hate to go, but it's a free-for-all when you go to that place. You don't know which way you're going in or going around. And trying to find a gas pump, and it's like, whoa.

And I think that one's more clearly defined because it has to do with the site plan itself and also with safety and ingress and egress out of the road. And like as much I fully understand what Vice Chairman was saying. And if if I had it my way, it would be a branded station and be masonry and all those things, you know. But I'm also trying to decide like so that we don't talk about things that we can't do, like what Where is the brakes on that?

Ben, you're not suggesting we say that they changed the look of their building, do you?

No, I'm not. I don't think they have. We were saying to improve the looks of the whole property and the building because it's in the overlay district. That's what I heard. The whole property. Yeah.

Frankly, I don't know as far as painting. Probably not. As far as adding entrances, exits, landscaping, all of that is within your bounds. I really don't know what the city ordinance would say as far as painting or masonry. I'm not aware of any.

What about signage? Do we have domain over signage?

That's their brand. I'm not going to ask them to.

No, no, but the size of it, where it's placed.

I think there is city regulation for that. That just would go by the city codes, whatever the city says. And I think sometimes the property owner also has.

I can look into that, but it's going to be based on what the code.

So let me restate what I'm concerned with here. Okay. I'm concerned with that there's a business which we like, but it's coming into the boulevard and it doesn't have plans to connect with the plan that the city has for the boulevard. Okay, in terms of the beautification of the boulevard, contributing towards that. So in my mind, that's why I am hesitating to vote yes on the SUP, because the business is not proposing any changes. I cannot compel them to if it's a good business, but I would not be comfortable with voting for the SUP.

I get that. I get that now. If we vote this down, can we state why we are voting this down? I mean, that was eloquently put. That's right.

That's what happened with the business that was brought up. Some suggestions were made, brought back, and still didn't come up to SNAP or standards.

And Mr. Chairman, we do want to add that signage is overseen by the building department, that they would be reviewing all of their signage plans. And you would be allowed to dictate maybe the location, the placement of the signage, but you can't make any stipulations for the content of the sign. You wouldn't be able to tell them this is what needs to be included or what has to be removed.

Got it. And that's what I was kind of getting at with the pig hog thing was like, we could say that it needs to be on a monument sign up against the road, but not what's on it, or like the color of it, or, you know, yeah. Yeah, that's their brand.

You can tell them to change their brand.

Yeah. Okay. Alrighty. So now that we've kind of, and for anybody that knew, do y'all have any questions that y'all want to ask about anything really?

I don't have questions, I guess, but I do agree with what Val said and how he put it. That's my opinion.

I agree that it needs to come up to code with regard to the overlay. And whatever safety concerns that whatever falls under code or that those things need to be addressed before this goes forward.

All right, so I think the commission is, from what I'm hearing, would like to see more about the ingress, egress, pulling in and out safety, and a plan for landscaping to connect it better to Saginaw, Maine, regarding the overlay district. So I guess with that being heard, I'll entertain a motion.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we reject. Is that what I was saying? Yeah. A motion not to approve the SUP regarding 501 and 711 North Saginaw Boulevard. But I would also like to give the business the option to come back with additional maybe plans to address safety around traffic in and out of the property. And also any suggestions to beautify or connect with the overlay district plans. Does that sound okay?

Yeah, so if you were to recommend denial, it would still go before City Council, and they can make these updates. If you want them to come back to Planning and Zoning for you to review, we would have to table the item for them to come back.

Yes, so I guess, so just to, while his motion kind of stands, should either staff or city attorney y'all are understanding the intent of what we're wanting to do would it be best if we tabled this and the applicant goes back and maybe add some things some more visuals some more concrete plans to their application to come back again or should we would it be best to reject it send it to city council and have it all get refiled and like which one is

I think you should table the item. Yeah. Because ultimately, I think you're wanting to then, once they can show some of those improvements or show what they want to do, you can have a further discussion. Got it. So that would be my recommendation.

Yeah, got it.

OK. Can we say to the gentleman, or to the business, just to land the plane is, we're trying to get some sort of understanding of what your beautification would be per the new overlay. and what you're marking and what your idea is for traffic control or maybe marking up of the space and how it can be better identified.

The parking lot, the entrance and exits may be reached right and just have things a little bit more defined because right now an 18-wheeler can and does just come right in. Yeah. So I think the applicant and anybody with the business will see the minutes, will see the meeting, and city staff can also help guide them with any questions. So I guess does somebody that made a motion need to retract it? Or I guess to table it, we would need a new motion.

Or can I make the motion to table the motion?

So I think first we have to address the motion on the table.

Okay, so Mr. Chairman, can I withdraw my motion so we can restate it?

So Val had a motion to deny it, but with talking to city attorney and city staff, they said it might be with what our intent is to table it.

Right. So I make a motion. I move that we table the consideration for the action of the SEP with regards to the convenience store and fuel sales at 501 and 711 North Saginaw Boulevard.

Perfect. Do we have a second?

I'll second that.

All right, we have a second with Vivian Anderson. Take it to a vote. All right, and just to be clear, this is to table the motion. All right, and the motion passes unanimously. So we hope to see this item again in front of us with just a little bit more concrete plans for landscaping and traffic safety. All righty, now we're gonna go to the staff report, section 4A, July project updates.

Mr. Chairman, just quickly, we did have a pre-construction meeting for a recent project that has had a pre-con on July 29th for 1320 Jarvis. It's the addition of a new office building and parking over there at Jarvis Boulevard, Jarvis Road. The other couple projects that we have recently added this year, such as... Cook Lane Industrial, the Professional Center, Frontier Settlement, Rose City Plaza, and Saginaw Retail are all actively working on infrastructure and public improvements are fully completed. For the McElroy gas relocation from Knowles to Main Street, the estimated completion date will be late August. In addition to that, just DFW Plastics, a project recently started, is now complete and we're waiting for that final inspection for city acceptance. Do we have any questions on any of the other ongoing projects listed?

It's good to see a lot of things moving along. There's a lot of shopping getting built on the north side of town, and I cannot wait for them to happen. One thing I don't see on here, but maybe because it hasn't quite started yet, is the old fire station. Do we have any word on something?

Yeah, so I believe from our last update, they are anticipating to begin groundbreaking next month, if not towards the end of this month. Cool.

Yep, there is two restaurants and like a meat market specialty grocer in there, yeah. So yeah, I keep seeing the other ones around town getting built and I'm like, where's Saginaw's? So yeah, all in good time. Alrighty, well then I believe tonight we do not have executive session already. So I will entertain a motion to adjourn the meeting. I move to adjourn the meeting.

I second it.

All righty. We have a second from Vivian. And we will vote. And motion passes. We will adjourn the meeting at 7.07 PM. Thank y'all.